Wednesday, June 04, 2008

The Lost Community Podcast - Episode 48

On this week's Lost Community Podcast, hosts David A Dein and The Goog unlock the mysteries of the season 4 finale of LOST - There's No Place Like Home. This episode is jammed with theories and hope for the future. Not only do they unlock the future of LOST but they layout their dreams for surviving the 9 Month hiatus.

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If you can help us being our eyes and ears at Comic-Con, please contact us at TLCpodcast@gmail.com, or leave a voicemail for the podcast at 206-202-3512. Also stay tuned to for details on our LIVE TALKSHOE podcast coming soon.

542 comments:

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memphish said...

Wow! First!

Looking forward to the podcast and the rest of the finale podcasts. I'm still saving them!

JoAnn said...

Hi all....2nd?

Capcom said...

I was thinking today that if the island moved in time and disappeared, it's like the movie Time Machine, where the time dial on the machine is set for a certain time, started up, and it then disappears. But technically, it's still in the same spot, just in a different time.

Not saying that I understand it, just that I can picture it better in my head via that movie. :-)

Ellen said...

very good analogy, Capcom!
By the way, Hi everyone!
xxoo

memphish said...

I still can't get my head around that Capcom. And here's the other thing I don't understand. Season 2 Desmond could not sail outside the Island's influence. I'm heading to Fiji and where do I end up? Inside the bloody snowglobe. In Season 3 when Ben, Juliet and Colleen reference The Elizabeth, same thing. They'll sail in circles, what does it matter. Then later in Season 3, Naomi says there's nothing there, and then the clouds part and there's an Island, but it makes my compass go nuts and my engine go out. Fast forward to Season 4 and it seems to be open season on bearing 305. Frank flies in and out 3 or 4 times. The zodiac goes in and out 3 or 4 times. Minkowski and friend flip out getting near the Island as does Regina and the kitchen help and Desmond, but no one else. So what gives? Was the thing that kept you in the snowglobe disabled? Does bearing 305 or 325 work, but they are the only ones? I want answers Darlton! Pick me to win the trip to ComicCon! Pick me!

More seriously, if you are going to ComicCon, contact me for a list of questions to ask Darlton.

memphish said...

Brainstorm idea! You know how a lot of people think that Claire died in the rocket attack on her house, but refused to accept it until she walked off into the jungle with dead Christian? What if Charlie, Eko, Desmond and Locke all died in Swan Hatch implosion? Desmond got visions of Charlie having to die because heck he was already dead and just had to accept it. Yemi Smoke Monster was confronting Eko on the matter and ending it. And we've yet to see Locke and Desmond be confronted with and accepting the fact of their deaths in that implosion. Needless to say this could be adapted to have some and not all of that group die in the implosion say Charlie and Eko or even just Charlie.

So what do you think?

Ellen said...

Sorry I haven't been commenting much, we've been busy getting ready for my son's High School Graduation.
Let me tell you, I am so glad I only have one child. I love my son more than my own life, and I am so proud of him I could burst, but the stress is incredible! My son is disabled and I had to really push the school to let a "special needs" student participate in the regular graduation ceremony :(
Anyway, I am very glad it's over so that I can get back to LOST!
I was so blown away by the finale! I think that it's going to take the long hiatus for us to tear it apart and come to some conclusions...
I agree with the idea that the island is much like the machine in the movie and book "The Time Machine" and it makes a lot of sense. It also makes it much easier to comprehend for the "average" viewer. I wonder what idea Ben is cooking up for the return to the island...and how the heck are they going to manage returning with Locke's body? I was reading some discussions in other places this afternoon and someone (a physics expert) mentioned the idea that there is one giant wormhole generated by the FDW which in turn generates smaller ones that wobble in an erratic fashion and end up in other places such as Tunisia, Australia, Antarctica, etc. Do you think perhaps that's what happened to Ben when he activated the FDW? Also, it was mentioned that once the FDW was activated and the island was "moved", that the island would not be found until time in the real world and time on the island synced up again. That made a lot of sense too. Perhaps that's why Ben told John that whoever moved the island could not return? Anyway, I've been harboring a lot of potential theories until I could get back to the discussion...so, sorry for the long post!
xxoo

Capcom said...

I know, like I said I don't understand it, I'm just gonna let my head rest on the visuals and "logic" from that movie/story. Maybe I should read that again.

Capcom said...

Aw, congrats for getting your son into the ceremony! :-) The nerve of them to not want to let him, wow.

Was there a name for what the phsyics guy was explaining? Like multiple wormholes, or something like that? I'd like to try to find that in my Hawking books. Tx.

Ellen said...

Thanks, Capcom!
Yeah, the nerve of them indeed!
But, it turned out really good anyway!

Yes, multiple wormholes! However, he stipulated that the major wormhole (that moved the island) was so big and energetic that it sort of generated these smaller, more erratic wormholes.

xxoo

maven said...

Capcom: Now that movie is something I can visualize in terms of why the island "disappears"! Thank you! Science Fiction is just that...fiction based on science. That's what make it entertaining and intriguing. Sometimes you just have to accept what you're watching! (Until we get a better explanation!)

Is anybody planning on going to Comic Con? (I already made plans to attend a quilt show in Long Beach that weekend before I knew about it!)

Interesting Brainstorm Idea, Memphish, but I don't think I can accept them all being dead. Somehow I can buy Claire having died in the barracks attack, and walking around holding Aaron. There's something involved with her having blood ties to Christian, I think. Charlie's death in the Looking Glass was just too real. Eko's death came at a time when he felt redeemed and having fulfilled his purpose. I want Desmond and Penny to live happily ever after. Locke is the only one who might have "died" a few times on the island, and is being revived or kept alive for some greater purpose.

Congrats to Ellen for fighting for her son! It must have been an especially meaningful ceremony for you and your family.

Ellen said...

Hi Maven!
How's the quilt coming along? I signed up for emails on the quilt blog, but haven't had time to go back and check it. I'll do that tomorrow now that I have more time on my hands.

Thanks for the congratulations! Isaac (my son) is a very hard-working young man (straight A's) and I just felt very strongly that he should be able to participate, so I (once again) went to battle for his right to be a part of the graduation. They wouldn't allow him to ride in his wheelchair to accept his diploma, so do you know what this amazing young man did? He actually got up and walked to get it!!! The entire stadium gave him a standing ovation! Yes, I was so proud. I was crying, laughing, praying for him...all throughout the ceremony. I will have the DVD in about 3 weeks and I will cherish it forever!
xxoo

maven said...

Thanks for asking about the quilt, Ellen. I bought the backing fabric today and starting quilting it. I'll try and post a pic of the backing (it's palm trees!).

And what a great moment for your son!

Ellen said...

Yes, Isaac was very excited...but he's not very happy about the idea of not being able to go back to school next year. He will miss all his teachers and friends.

I am working on my third block of my Dharma quilt. I haven't had much time lately, needless to say.
I am a traditional quilter myself because I'm such a rookie. I was really excited to see the layout of yours! Palm trees!
xxoo

Ellen said...

G'night everyone! After midnight here and I'm starting to turn into a pumpkin! See you tomorrow!
xxoo

maven said...

I updated my Lost quilt blog to show the backing fabric (for those interested)!

maven said...

Listening to podcast:
David had a question about why Jack named 3 people who died (Boone, Libby and Charlie) when the story was there were 8 that survived the initial crash...That's because Aaron wasn't born yet! There were 5 + 3 who died (and the unborn Aaron).

Who really is the leader of the island? Maybe all the O6 have to go back is because they're all part of the future leadership of the island. You know, "Live together, die alone".

I think Ben knew what to do with the frozen Donkey Wheel because Richard Alpert probably told him about it. It's definitely pre-Dharma. I don't think the DI knew the full potential below the Orchid station.

Some pretty whacky theories...as usual!

Sayid'sgirl said...

ellen
So glad you were able to get your son into his graduation ceremonies. I don't understand why people can be so unfair sometimes.It must have been an extremely gradifying moment for you both when he walked up and recieved his diploma. And good for the community for giving him a staning ovation.

Ellen said...

Thanks, Sayid's Girl! It was indeed very gratifying! Our community at large is very supporting, but the school admins are a whole other matter...maybe the disabled high school students who graduate in the future will have less trouble than we did!
xxoo

Ross said...

What's with David and The Goog's crazy idea about Charles Widmore being Alvar Hanso? Surely they mean Magnus Hanso? Although TPTB have said you don't need to play the game to understand the show, I really don't see them making such a fundamentally stupid thing as to change a significant character's actor halfway through.

Don't get it.

Ross said...

Ah yes, they do lol just heard the rest of it.

Ross said...

As I've just spent about an hour typing out my theory to a friend of mine, I thought to myself I might as well post it here for you all too!

Be warned the next few posts will be huge lol

Ross said...
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Ross said...

The Island is either a landmass part of, or was once populated by, one of the ancient civilisations. People are saying Atlantis but I prefer Mu/Lemuria simply because Atlantis was in the Atlantic and Mu was their Pacific brothers (plus Atlantis has been done to death). That being said, there's nothing to stop the Island being part of Atlantis if it really can teleport away. Anyway I digress...

That ancient civilisation, as they always do, had technology beyond our imagination, the big thing in this instance is the Machine at heart of the Island. Either by harnessing the unusual electromagnetic properties of the Island thousands of years before DHARMA did, or actually creating them, the Machine is able to warp space and time to propel the entire Island to other places and times - presumably through localised wormholes (Casimir Effect, negatively-charged exotic matter, etc - the theoretical physics are sound and perfectly valid).

The ancient civilisations were also believed to possess the "Fountain of Youth" (and scholars like Plato have cited this in classical texts). In this case, the ancient's technology allows them to cast an electromagnetic bubble across the entire Island that greatly slows, if not stops completely, any decay processes in human physiology (possibly all organic matter - why else would DHARMA crackers, Ranch dressing and beer be fine to consume after 15 years in the tropical heat?) rendering all within the field to stop aging - decay rate of cells is equal to growth rate. Unfortunately, this same effect causes major growth abnormalities in a human foetus (growth rate massively exceeds decay rate) which always ends up in miscarriage and death of the mother.

So on this ancient Island we have a select few inhabitants who have remained, immortal, acting as protectors of the place and its secrets, occasionally selecting a few from the outside world that could help them. I'd go on a limb and say that Jacob would be some form of spiritual guardian with the Others acting carrying out his direction physically. To that end I'd say Smokey is indeed a security system as Danielle alludes to, one that is technological in existence, but again from a technology so advanced it appears to be magic.

So there you have our Island, existing in secret for thousands of years hidden from the rest of the world, with any visitors from the outside being accidental (Henry Gale's balloon, Yemi's heroin plane, the Black Rock, etc.) or the Others recruitment drive.

Now, along comes The Hanso Foundation and discover this place by accident and they're amazed as to how much the Island will fit the purposes of the DHARMA Initiative so they set up shop and investigate, presumably sending in archaeologists as well once the remains of the Four Toed statue, columns and Temple have been found.

Did they find the Machine? The tunnel behind the Orchid chamber looked man-made and the cavern only partly exposed the Machine's wheel. Whether or not they found the Machine, they'll definitely keep it secret from average Joe Dharma.

So begins the DHARMA Initiative, utilising the Island's properties and (indirectly) its technology to carry out its research.

However Jacob and the Others aren't to happy about this and carry out their mission of protecting the Island for these invaders (that would explain Alpert's comment that young Ben's calling the wrong people "Hostiles"). Ultimately the Others win with The Purge, killing the invaders and protecting the Island again, now with shiny new toys they can use to keep better informed about the outside world and also draw upon its resources. This would also explain why Jacob is so adverse to technology - he's pretty much Atlantean old-school and technology represents everything that DHARMA did and what's wrong with the world he's been trying to shield the Island from (or perhaps technology was the undoing of Atlantis, so a more natural, harmonious existence is preferred, thus technology is hated as it represents death).

It's all too late though because Charles Widmore, through his corporate connections to The Hanso Foundation (we know this from the ARG), knows of and has benefited from the Island and now he wants it back: Ben leading the Others to DEFEND the place (that would make Ben and the Others the heroes of this story) and Widmore trying to reclaim it for his own purposes.

it's just unfortunate that out of the blue a plane goes and crash-lands on the Island and those who miraculously survive it are thrown not only into the jaws of people who will kill to protect the Island from the outside world, but also between two warring factions over claim to the Island itself.

Ross said...
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Ross said...

I do think that the Island has been moved before and was close to the Nigerian coast quite recently - how else would a short-range plane get from Nigeria onto the Island? With Eko's plane so full of drugs and leaving with a massive military presence in pursuit, you just know that they will be wanted men. Perhaps the plane was shot down by the military or it suffered complications from ground fire as it took off. Either way, the thing ditches down on the Island. Of course, the military are now going to be tracking this thing down and the last thing Jacob wants are more outsiders trampling the undergrowth and possibly finding its secrets.

"Fire up the Machine boys, we're off!"

Who turned it? Maybe an Other of no consequence to our story, maybe a trained DHARMA polar bear that ended up leaping backwards in time to Tunisia (even though the time displacement seems to eb random, it would appear the spacial displacement is constant, which would make Tunisia the banishment location of choice) or maybe Charles Widmore was an Other of influence and was anti-Ben (and fuelled Alpert's frustrations with Ben's direction).

Personally I've always liked the idea that Widmore is in fact Magnus Hanso who spent quite a while on the Island after it appeared underneath his boat one morning. As a man of the world, Jacob would appreciate Hanso's knowledge and contacts and would help to defend the Island, so after recruiting Hanso to the cause, he spent time building up a real-world network and resources, of which the Widmore Corporation is part of. Then along comes this punk kid who everybody's raving about and then one Purge later this grown-up Ben becomes the new leader, effectively stealing the Island from Widmore (we saw how attached Ben was and how distraught at losing it he was, plus Widmore accused Ben of stealing the Island from him AND they know each other pretty well it seems). Stirring shit as best he can, Widmore becomes an opponent to Ben and gains support. Ben, the genius that he is, always has a plan and the drug plane incident is the perfect opportunity to get rid of Widmore permanently. He who moves the island is gone forever and thus Ben manipulates the situation to get Widmore to turn the wheel.

But unfortunately for Ben, Widmore now turns his off-island assets to the task of refinding the Island and has been trying to get back ever since. The belief that the Others have of "he who moves the Island is gone and can never come back" I'd suggest was simply based on the lack of means to find the Island again after it moves to a new location, but this is now the 21st Century and Widmore will have access to all manner of tracking systems that he can use to find the Island again after all.


The big issue with this idea though is that I believe the Island has been in the Pacific for as long as DI has been there. We know from TLE that the radio transmitter broadcasting the Numbers was set up by DI and that repeating transmission was picked up by military outposts based in the Pacific.

That being said, it's not too much of a stretch to think that DHARMA set up shop on the Island when it was nearer Africa and that the food drops have been homing in on the Island's beacon not necessarily a geographic location, THF knowing full well that the Island has the capacity to move.

Ross said...

Through this tracking beacon, THF can keep tabs on where the Island is at all times just in case it does move - why would you let a major asset slip away so easily?

Of course, DI ceased to exist after the Purge so THF officially pulled the plug, but kept the automated support systems like food drops running for the people left on the Island.

And if the beacon is still running then Widmore has a shot of finding it again.

Ange said...

Yay a podcats for my commute this morning. Downloading now. Also I actually have a couple of real comments that don't start and end with "e-mail", and they are this:

minnesotawriter (HI!) in the last thread you mentioned that the island moving might be how the Black Rock ended up in the middle of the island. I really like that idea, just saying.

memphish could the reason that Desmond couldn't get away from the snow globe (or Michael, Sawyer, and Jin for that matter) be because the island is always slightly ahead or behind in time? Not enough to make it disappear entirely like at the end of the finale, but just enough that you can only get to it if you are going at a certain rate of speed ie. a helicopter or submarine (although it wouldn't explain the balloon). Just a thought.

Ross: WOW, that's all I can say right now because I want to read that again, but man you had some thorough ideas that I really like a lot. I like the idea that the island moved to the Nigerian plane. I do think though, that 815 crashing there was an accident. And now hearing Ben tell Jack that they have to bring everyone back to the island including dead looking Locke, it makes me think that the 815ers were sent back there and the crash was manufactured to get them all there for whatever reason. Just my .02.

Congrats Ellen on you're son's graduation! As a special education teacher I am ASHAMED that you had to go through anything special to have your son graduate. Have these people never heard of IDEA or ADA, sheesh!

Maven: Palm trees :D!

OKAY off to podcast and drive and have field day and maybe get eaten alive by bugs and get a sunburn. Doesn't the end of the school year sound fun!

Ross said...

ange:

Glad you like :D

Yes, I'd definitely say 815 crashing was an accident. There's nothing unusual about a plane suffering from a simple instrument failure that knocked it off course and it's just really unlucky that they passed over the Island when the Swan hatch threw up its EMP, frying the plane's electronics and knocing it out of the sky.

And I think that's an important point here: it is simply sheer bad luck on the part of the survivors that they've found themselves in the middle of this conflict between Jacob/Ben and Widmore.

However, it is incredibly good luck that amongst those survivors are people that can have a massive influence on the outcome on this conflict. Maybe their destiny?

So by human terms the plane crash was nothing more than an accident, however in the grand cosmic scale, the plane crash was always predestined to occur as it is the method for those with a purpose and destiny to get to the Island.

Ross said...

Bear in mind that my theory here is simply about the backstory to this entire show. How these survivors fit into the conflict, why they are supposed to be on the Island and what Fate holds for them is now the story to be told in the remaining 2 seasons.

As we've not seen anything that could suggest what role they play we really are now in totally unknown territory as far as this show goes, which makes this all the more exciting and all the more painful we have to wait 50+ weeks!

Ross said...

quick thought on the snow globe effect:

I've been thinking for a while, and I mentioned it quite a while ago during TLE, that the electromagnetic nature of the Island would totally mess with conventional magnetism-based navigation. You can see what happens if you put a magnet next to a compass.

Well, we have a huge magnet in the middle of the ocean here which will always make a compass needle point towards it. So by sailing parallel to the Island, as you sail further away the compass needle is actually going to shift basically making you sail round in circles.

You can prevent this by making sure you sail in a straight line with that line coming from the centre of the Island. This way you won't get a needle shifting and your navigation won't be affected until you leave the magnetic influence of the Island.

Presumably heading 305 would be one such line (although strictly speaking you could go in any direction you wanted as long as the line you follow can be drawn back to the centre of the Island).

That's about as clear as mud to explain in words lol

Ross said...

Basically, if you follow due north you'll hit the centre of the Island, if you go due South you're following the exact opposite direction yet still on that same line. If you travel any other direction you'll get a needle shift as it points towards this source of magnetism.

As Desmond saild "due west to Fiji" he's travelling at a right-angle to the needle all the time, which is just going to pull him around in a big circle.

memphish said...

I can understand your explanation Ross, but I'm not sure I'm satisfied with the answer you can travel at 305, 325 and whatever the rocket travelled and Doc Ray's path, but no one else is going to guess what to travel so we don't have to worry about them. I also don't see how Frank in the helicopter and Sayid in the zodiac wouldn't have compass problems. Wouldn't their compass keep changing too? Unless it is the case that there is not in fact a straight route to the Island, but that following the curving path formed by a constantly correcting compass heading of 305 you get the right maze entrance. I'd like that answer better if there were only one and not 2 of those routes though.

I guess my biggest problem is Desmond not being able to get out, but Doc Ray's dead body being able to get in.

Ross said...

memphish:

I guess a large part of this is whether or not there's some kind of physical barrier involved. If travelling at 305 passes you through some kind of doorway then TPTB do have a lot of explaining to do lol

Personally, I've never thought there was a physical barrier, simply major navigation issues because of the strong electromagnetic presence of the island and the snow globe is purely Desmond trying to explain what he's experienced metaphorically.

Yes, we have seen that big storm cloud and Naomi made reference to it too, so maybe there is some form of electromagnetic or temporal event horizon that you have to pass through, but again we've only seen that once - was it taken as red that Lapidus, Sayid and Farraday know how to pass through so there's no point showing it?

If there is no barrier then Doc Ray's body was purely tidal, and the rocket's targeting system was GPS based not magnetic.

And that's where why big idea does fall over - GPS works on satellite pinpointing, not magnetism, so you'll be fine if you have GPS. But let's look at the vehicles we've seen...

Michael's boat: I doubt that rust bucket would have GPS navigation
Zodiac: no GPS
Lapidus's chopper: no GPS
Naomi's chopper: we didn't see it but it sounded more military so it probably would have GPS
Submarine: I'm sure it would have GPS
The Elizabeth: we never got on board so who knows really. If it did have GPS then my theory's shot, if it didn't then I'm still in business lol

What I'm trying to say is that every time we've heard "follow xyz heading" it's been when somebody's about to travel in a low-end vehicle that would only have magnetism-based navigation on it.

TLC said...

Perhaps I wasn't clear Ross, Charles Widmore/Magnus Hanson/Alvar Hanso - All the same person.

Magus Hanso landed on the island. Was named leader of the island, sometime in the 40's he went back to the real world and with the skills he learned on the island started the Hanso Foundation then Darhma. Was forced at some point to give up the island, turned the donkey wheel and is living in London as Charles Widmore.

That's the theory!

Ross said...
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Ross said...

Yeah I'd prematurely posted my "they think Widmore's Alvar?" so I quickly understood what your theory was, and interestingly it's very similar to my idea, only I don't have Alvar being the same person and therefore Magnus/Charles has nothing to do with The Hanso Foundation and its DHARMA Initiative.

I know TLE isn't canon and I know TPTB have stated you don't need to play the games to understand the show, but Alvar Hanso has been seen and is active again now that he's been exonerated of crimes Mittelwerk committed in the name of The Hanso Foundation.

TPTB aren't going to make such a crazy change in actor.

Capcom said...

You're right about Scifi Maven! In fact TPTB have said something pretty equal to that, in saying that the show should be approached the way Jurassic Park would be approached, that is, (to paraphrase) "...if you tell me that you cloned dinosaur DNA by getting it from a bug suspended in amber, and then filled in the DNA blanks with frog DNA, I dont'understand it but I can go with that and just accept it because you told it to me in a way that could make some sense in my imagination."

And for shame Maven, you should have known to keep the entire month of July free just in case! :o) But I bet you will have fun at your quilt show.

Ellen, I teared up reading about your son walking to the podium. And it remeinded me of FDR, the way he refused to act like an invalid after he got polio, and would insist on walking and standing as much as poss (although as POTUS, he also had many other reasons for needing to appear strong in people's eyes).

2costa said...

the only thing anyone knows for certain is that Ben went 200 days in the future, but by virtue of it being three years after the crash that jacks at locke's funeral and jack says locke said the two years after he left went bad, a lot of people are thinking the island just jumped foward as well...

I think the more interesting question is why the hotel thinks Ben was there two weeks earlier, but he hasn't used the orchid in fifteen years, did Ben play a part in Nadia's death? How did Ben know about nadia if he just missed the last 200 days on earth? did he go to tunesia 2005 ftwo weeks earlier the first time fifteen years arlier? Is that how Ben knew the future events and how they might play out?

2costa said...

imo widmore is not alvar Hanso, why would he have to but the black rock ledger then, but I wouldnt be surprised if widmore was on the black rock and was the leader of the other at some point then got exiled by the FDW, then went and made his fourtane. Perhaps the island has been jumping foward in time a lot more than we think. Maybe every so often it does a big leap foward...

2costa said...

I've been wondering if charlie pace is charles widmore's son, maybe charlie's mom was his maid or something...

Capcom said...

Ross, I am totally onboard with the compass problem having an impact, as TPTB made a point to tell us that in the early eps where Locke and Sayid both noticed that effect. But the freighter is not low-end nav tech, right? It looked like it could have been GPS when he set it. I'm not savvy on GPS at all.

"TPTB do have a lot of explaining to do lol" Heheh, LOL times a zillion! :-D

As for other vessels reaching the island by accident, remember that even a broken watch is correct two times a day. Some things could have accidently hit the 'sweet spot' and gotten through the barrier I guess. If there is a barrier, and the magnetism (or wahtever) creates a shield or lensing effect (refer to Dan's comment about the light) then there may be a place where the effect is weak and can be penetrated. See tyhe moebius band theory for a possilb explanation.

TPTB have implied that Doc got to the island, and his time got messed up, by possibly not going through the correct coords.

Wow! Great comments everyone!!!!!

Ross said...

Did I forget to list the freighter capcom? Whoops lol yes, I would've said the freighter would've had a GPS system.

As with everything, I'm just thinking aloud here as part of the discussion so it's all good to have counter comments - together maybe we can piece all this together lol

At the end of the day, there is a definite point being made here: navigation from the Island is a very precise thing and you cannot just rely on traditional methods. As you said Capcom, there was a point being made back in season 1 with Sayid and Locke's compasses and now the repeated statements of following a specific heading.

As for the accidental visits, I think they're evidence enough that there's not a physical barrier in place - it would just seem too cheesy to have two crashing planes, a balloon, a racing yatch and a slave ship all show up on the Island. It certainly does seem more likely that you have to cross this EM event horizon at a specific location to avoid some kind of temporal shift.

Capcom said...

Too true, I don't think that very many accidental approaches could happen, or else the island would not be that difficult to find. But remember, the plane crashed when the Dez' anomaly made the magnetism temporarily unstable; the island moving around in time or space could have "captured" various vessels like the Nigerian plane or the Black Rock (see vortices theories); etc.; and who knows how many other unstabling events happened over the years. I do agree about there needing to be a specific entry point, as needing a beacon for the sub suggests. But since TPTB did recently say that about the Doc floating in, I'm now inclined to also allow the possiblity of accidental entry once in a while. :-)

Actually, do we know for sure that the balloon was accidental? For all we know, Wid could have been behind that too as a recon mission or something, unless his name on the balloon was just there along with Coka-Cola and all the other adverts by chance.

I sure do like all your theories Ross! :-D

Capcom said...

BTW, I think that people are just using the word "barrier" as a euphemism for some kind of event horizon, or edge, to whatever kind of energy "field" is surrounding the island. With all the talk in the show about magnetic fields, I'm also wondering if it may be as simple as how the same magnetic poles repel each other! :-B

Capcom said...

FYI, if anyone is interested in how J.J. will be babysitting us until LOST comes back on next year, here is a cool fan blog on Fringe:

http://fringetv.blogspot.com/

The official Fox website gets a few more additional functions as time passes. e.g., mysterious equations, images, videos, etc. Neat-o.

Ellen said...

Ange, I think it's grand that you are a special education teacher. It takes a very special person indeed, and speaks very highly of your heart! Yes, this school system is very familiar with IDEA and ADA, but they gave me the excuse that they didn't want to mess it up for the other 368 "normal" kids...I didn't like that.
Capcom, your reference to FDR was very appropriate...yes, nothing is impossible if you are determined!!

Ross, I like the thoughtful theories. Just one thing...how could the island have been moved recently when the entrance to the FDW was blocked by Dharma's building of the Orchid Station? Unless maybe there was another entrance somewhere on the island...still, the fact that Ben had to blow a hole to gain entrance and then chip huge icicles off the wheel with a tire iron leads me to think that it hadn't been used since the Dharma Initiative arrived and built the Orchid Station...just sayin'.
And also, IMO Henry Gale was in a balloon with Widmore's name on it. I think that he must have been on a mission to locate the island for CW. I also don't think that the balloon wreck, the plane crash, Desmond's boat, Rousseau's shipwreck, etc. were not coincidence, I really think that they were drawn there for specific purposes. Which leads me to agree with you about Widmore, I think he is older than we think and perhaps has ties to the island pre-Dharma.
I also think that perhaps, somehow, the island is difficult to locate even when it hasn't been moved. Thus, the reason why it hasn't needed to be moved until now. With the technological advancements in our time, perhaps the "barriers" have been penetrated, so now, the island must be moved in order to shield it's existence from the outside world and Widmore.
JMHO!
xxoo

Capcom said...

Ellen, what you said about the vault vs. the FDW made me think about something. Perhaps the DI had refined the power of the ancient machine with modern equipment to create a more managable and tweakable process, so they could use it in various controlled applications via the vault. But the FDW itself, is a crude but much more powerful -- and possibly less controllable -- power source and application. Maybe the refined vault apparatus itself was of no use to Ben in doing what he had to do, and was as yet only good for experiments with bunnies, if the DI did not get very far along in their tests. So Ben had to quickly get to the true power source, i.e. the big guns, and turn the FDW to get the huge blast that he needed. ???

I really like what you said about how it's easier to find the island now, than in the past, with our upgraded technology, that makes a lot of sense.

maven said...

Wow! I'm gonna for a while (quilting), and everyone's brain opens up! LOL
Ross: You're a great asset to the discussions here at TLC! I can really buy your theories on the background of the island. I, too, feel that Charles Widmore might be Magnus Hanso. His current age would be similar to the age of a sea captain. Richard Alpert can't be the only one who doesn't age and doesn't celebrate birthdays anymore! I can see the Black Rock getting stuck in the center of the island when the island was moved for some unknown reason. At that point, he stopped aging and has spent all this time learning about the island. Maybe he had to be the one to move the island (like Ben) and has been trying to get back all these years. That's why he needed to buy the Black Rock ledger, because there might have been vital info in it.

I also like the discussion that modern technology (GPS, Sat phones, etc.) might be making it easier to find the island again.

Capcom/Ellen: I think the vault is just part of the DI's "silly experiments". I don't think they know about or understand what was right below their feet. Ben apparently didn't think much of the DI. He was probably indoctrinated by Richard, and that's why he helped with the Purge...to protect the real secrets of the island and get rid of invaders who were not "one" with the island.

Ross said...

I'm touched you all think so highly of me lol

I think we are definitely seeing the ramifications of how an ancient civilisation holding on to its anti-technology and secretive ideals is now having to handle a world that is making massive leaps and bounds in its own technology.

I've had this wonderfully epic image in my head of the fall of Atlantis, consumed by invading hordes of barbarians. Amongst the upheaval a select few of forward-thinkers and the most enlightened were assembled on a small group of islands just off the mainland and told that they would be all that remains "take our treasures and our knowledge and keep it safe, make sure nobody ever finds this place".

One turn of the wheel, one flash of light and the Machine takes them away safely while the mainland falls.

It will take the rest of the world thousands of years to evolve to the point they can safely and frequently travel the seas, but from then on humankind evolves very rapidly. In the space of only 300-400 years (a mere snap of a finger compared to the time the Atlanteans have lived in secret on the Island), the risk of exposure, and the number of visits the Island's had has grown massively, causing more and more extreme action to be taken by Jacob and the Others.

I'd definitely agree that the Island would be difficult to find under any circumstances. Certainly the Philadelphia Experiment-style cloaking device theory that cropped up back in TLE has been given a new lease of life with all the talk of electromagnetism-based technology, but more and more people are going to be finding the Island in the 21st Century - Widmore found it, Penny found it (independantly of daddy I think - she said to Desmond she has her own tracking station).

We'll have to see how far into the ground the Orchid has gone (if it's ever used again, given there's a big hole in it now) but I think it's more likely DI built the station from scratch to manipulate the exotic matter rather than interface with the Machine Stargate-style. Also we'll have to see how accurate the Machine is as I don't think you could pinpoint the space and/or time you want to jump to just by turning a big wheel - but I'm not the Atlantean designer (if I were all the lighting and the flash would be blue lol).

Capcom said...

Great comments today, right Maven?!

Ellen, I hope that you don't mind, but I just used your idea in post on my blog (with your name). :-)

And when are we going to learn of this ancient civilization dangitt??!! I like your ideas about them Ross.

Ross said...

when are we going to learn of this ancient civilization dangitt??!!

Ben's off the Island, Locke's leading the Others and will be getting his many lessons and teachings very soon. We have to wait 50+ weeks for it but I'd like to think we'd get some big info pretty early into season 5 - Locke will have to be told and I don't see why we can't piggy-back that campire story, hell, do it in the Temple - two birds with one stone! I think it's going to be a perfect opportunity to educate us at the same time as driving the narrative.

Unless of course TPTB are going to be very, very cruel and not have Locke on screen for ages and then he just says "I know the secrets of the Island" and I can feel that coming actually because what is there actually for us to see with the Others now other than Locke taking charge?

Ben's gone, the O6 are gone. Hell, other than Sawyer looking at Hurley and saying "so, what now Kemo Sabe?" I don't think there's much to cover on-Island until the badness starts to occur.

THAT would annoy me lol

2costa said...

ive said that a hundred times capcom about the Di refining FDW forces in the vault inside the orchid to harness them for individual jumps for one person through time and space, with less unpredicatable results, and maybe even back to the island. The orchid jumps are not the last resort that the FDW turns out to be. I even added that maybe they trained the polar bears to turn the wheel so no DI person had to displaced by FDW. What better animal to turn a frozen donkey wheel then a super smart polar bear, to bad you get a one way ticket to the tunesian desert. In order to refine and harness FDW(negatively charged exotic matter)it they would have hade to experiment with it, just to get the right measurments for calculation, much as daniel didn't figure out the sweet spot 305 coordinates til he was actually on the island and did the beacon test, thats is how he subsequently told frank the proper coordinates to safely leave the island, and told desmond the proper settings to twell oxford dan for his ray to warp eloise, its a terminator type time paradox. I also like doc jensen idea that the frozen donkey wheel is frozen to slow down whatever is happening in there, like mike and the liquid nitrogen on the freighter, BTurn the donkey wheel creates friction and heat that allows some of that exotic matter to do its thing.

I also think its interesting that neither the orchid or FDW is the magic box, I still hold out hope that the magic box is somehow tied to the dharma door on the big slab of rock from the end of season 2 or that cooper was smokey and the magic box is down in bens glyph tunnel.

Ellen said...

Capcom, I am honored! Thanks...
I agree to an extent with both you and Maven...
I do think that the DI was aware of a greater power that was beyond their ability to control and that they may indeed have built the vault to take some of that power and experiment with it under smaller, controlled conditions, but if you recall, in the Orchid Video we saw from Comic Con last year, they may not be able to control it as well as they thought they could. And because of the purge, they were unable to get a handle on it. I also think that Ben is indeed protecting the actual naturally occurring powers of the island and that he felt that the DI was exploiting that energy for nefarious purposes and that he became indoctrinated to be the island's pawn because of his ability to "see" his dead Mother. If you think about it, Dharma was established to find a way to change the factors of the Valenzetti Equation and those extreme energies on the island gave them a way to conduct controlled experiments in the attempt to change those factors. It started with good intentions, but became perverted (as many good intentions do) through greed and avarice. I would love to learn more of the beginnings of the Dharma Initiative, because I believe that the original inhabitants were probably very cooperative with them in the beginning. They must have been, otherwise, how could Dharma have built all that "stuff" on the island without some kind of sabotage, murder, etc.? They operated a long time before they began having problems, it seems.
(I know my thoughts are a little disjointed, I'm listening to the podcast while I'm typing...I am a serial person (one thing at a time) and easily distracted :D)
Let me finish the podcast and I'll be back with more thoughts (a little more organized too hopefully!)
xxoo

Ross said...

We seem to be on the same wavelength ellen - it'll be interesting to see what else is in your head!

Dennis said...

Capcom said... FYI, if anyone is interested in how J.J. will be babysitting us until LOST comes back on next year, here is a cool fan blog on Fringe: http://fringetv.blogspot.com/

Thanks for the plug Capcom! :)

I mentioned this before, but I'll be "working" at FringeTV as well. Hopefully if this show takes off, we'll be THE Lost Community/DarkUFO type site for FRINGE!

If anybody wants something to do until Comic-con launches the new LOST ARG, there is an ARG going on for FRINGE (at least we think it is for FRINGE... ?)

We just solved a cool puzzle where everyone was emailed a piece of a picture, and we had to put all of our parts together, then decode it with a Vigenère decoder!

BTW, I've been following this since the beginning at Unfiction, but if you want a great summary of everything so far, check out The Utterly Grumpy Holomove Guide. I'll be writing my own brief summary for FringeTV soon...

Capcom said...

You all are on a roll today! :-D

Hey Dennis, I must have missed that you were on the Fringe team! I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out what's going on exactly, so thanks for the directions. :-B I'll be sure to check out those links too. Let us know here if something big is about to happen if it looks like we might miss it! :-o

Ellen said...

Well, the comment I was going to make here was way too long, so I posted it to my website:

Ellen's Lost Site

I hope you all will read it and discuss it here with me. Since it is a rudimentary website, there are no comments, and I wrote down my thoughts for you guys exclusively. Capcom, I linked to your blog (hope that's ok) and to this blog (again, hope that's ok).
Thank you!
xxoo

maven said...

Thanks for the Fringe update, Dennis! I've got that blog bookmarked, but I didn't think anything was really happening yet. I'm hoping we'll be able to segue way into Fringe from Lost so that by 2010 we'll still be happy!!!!

Capcom said...

Hey, I'm glad that you put some of your old posts on your new blog Ellen! I look forward to reading them, I started to right before the other blog closed down. Thanks for the reference too. :-)

BTW, where did you get those awesome images for the little slide show?!

Ellen said...

Capcom, those are fractals downloaded from Tech Republic (yes, I'm a computer nerd). I have a membership from my days of working as a PC Technician (long, long ago in a land far, far away!). I made that little slide show with an open source software program I have (forgot the name of it). I'm glad you like!
Some of those older posts are null and void with the newer info that we have with season 4, but they were fun to think about and put into words...
xxoo

Capcom said...

Awesome, nice work!

Sure, some of our old theories are obsolete now, but should be kept for posterity! :-D

memphish said...

Ack Attack's recap is up and is LOLiscious as usual.

Capcom said...

Tx Memphish! That's the one I always look forward to.

Ellen said...

Thanks, Capcom!
and, thank you Memphish, I love Ack Attack!
Off to read it and then to bed. I've so enjoyed being back and having the time to discuss things with all of you!
xxoo

maven said...

Ack Attack...so funny! Thanks

maven said...

J. Wood is up.

Barb said...

Long time lurker since I didn't have high speed at home and couldn't figure out this blogger thing. How embarassing.

Two things from official podcasts are bugging me in regards to the time travel. One - time is not what you think. They pretty much laughed at all of us with the analysis of Dan's rocket experiment. Two - this is quasi science. These writers are in no way as scientific as we (ok - some of us) are!

The ancient civilization stuff by Ross is so right on!! Our challenge during the hiatus is to figure out that (4 toe & temple) along with time travel and aging. I really like the train of thought on Widmore. It's close but not quite there and I can't pinpoint why it doesn't feel right. TLE introduced us to Joop. How old is that darn monkey? Jacob is obviously very old also but something went wrong with him - he directly said to Locke "Help Me". Was he the original human guinea pig?

Out there thoughts for discussion:
1) Life Extension Project from TLE
There's something there that we're missing. Why bring up Joop to us? Richard is the show part so that a viewer doesn't need TLE. I think it's huge and we're missing it.

2) Ancient knowledge and uptapped human capabilities. It cannot be a coincidence that there are so many connections between our Losties. Come on - how can a brother and sister that never met and never even knew of each other end up on the same plane with the body of their father?? Quasi science here. I want to go on with this one but.....

I was sent on a business trip and just felt in the limo that morning that I shouldn't go. That night the fire alarms in the hotel went off. Long story short - there was nothing wrong at the hotel in New York. It was my house in Chicago that was on fire.

Barb said...

I'm not digging the worm hole theories. I thought those require the vacuum of space. I don't understand the vortice thing but am trying. What I keep coming back to is something we refer to in my industry as KISS. Another spin on it is Ockham's razor : The simplest solution that is both necessary and sufficient is best.

The Looking Glass was there and being hidden for a reason. It had a bunch of electronic equipment. I think it was kinda the network gateway and sent out bad signals. Ben had control of what came in, went out and jammed just about everything. It wasn't until Charlie caused it's destruction that the freighter could come in. Naomi came in before the hand grenade. Once the 'jamming' was disabled the coordinates Daniel had worked. The freighter had a good feeling they were in the right area but Naomi was a test.

Barb said...

Guess I'm all alone here but that's OK. This show is a long story between my husband and I. He watched the premiere while I was at work. he watched the next couple episodes alone too. Tried to talk to me about it a little but I was too tied up at work. Watched most of the rest of season 1 with him and didn't quite get it. Then TLE hit. Wow - what a change. I went head over heals and he backed off big time. Actually had an issue with seasons 2 and 3 about watching and discussing. Then season 4 hit and he's back in the fold. He laughed so hard at the Octagon commercial. He understood what it meant and laughed that I was 'Lost' again. He won't be with me in the ARG but if I don't go overboard he'll be with me for the episodes. Not as over the top as everybody here though!!

memphish said...

Welcome Barb! I hope we'll see you around this hiatus and on into seasons 5 and 6.

I like how you're tying the Life Extension stuff back into the show. I can buy that the Island has properties that would permit that. I'd also guess that the Dharma Initiative were merely scratching the surface of tapping into those properties just as they were with the stuff at the Orchid. DI can move bunnies for milliseconds; the natives can move the Island in time and space.

I can buy that something in the Looking Glass that is now disabled is the key to all the passing back and forth to the Island now. I'm ashamed to admit I'd kind of forgotten about that. In fact I'd like that to be the explanation because otherwise it's really bugging me.

memphish said...

I've finally put a new poll up on my blog. I'm probably going to dribble them out one at a time while there's not much going on. Hopefully by the end of July we'll have more to do.

maven said...

Welcome, Barb and congrats on de-lurking. We need your great input! Memphish is right: I've forgotten that the Looking Glass unjamming could have opened up entrance to the island! And we'd all love to see more TLE tied into the show! I'm hoping that Widmore is Magnus Hanso and Richard could have been his first mate! They might have been the original protectors of the island. Maybe they had a falling out, and Magnus/Widmore used the FDW and now is trying to get back, just like Ben is. Also, liked Ross' take that outside technology is also making it easier to locate and get to the island (GPS, Sat phone, etc.).

Also, HAPPY BIRTHDAY to FENRIS tomorrow!!!

Capcom said...

Welcome Barb (and husband)! Great thoughts and theories!

I'm thinking this about Joop, Alpert, et.al.: the DI/Hanso found the island and all the old "entities" on it. So one of their projects, as per TLE, was to reverse-engineer how the island made that happen, and try to recreate it in the lab and outside the island for all mankind (according to Hanso inthe Sri Lanka film clip, the DI actually seems kind of selfish to me).

It seems that a part of the purpose of the LG was to jam radio signals that the Ben did not want or approve of. I think that's why Patchy was so surprised to find out that Ben lied about that, because Patchy must have thought that he was in charge of all the radio transmissions. Pfff, Patchy obviously misunderestimated Ben as well, heheh. That also must be why Karl never saw a Brady Bunch episode...Ben blocked them! :o)

If in theory wormholes do need a vacuum, that's probably why TPTB have brought the Casimir effect into play on the island, because that effect is a vacuum of sorts between two charged plates, etc. And Casimir properties play a role in theories of wormholes, time travel, etc. I trust that TPTB will consult with the proper scientific authorities on the science aspects, they've led us to Hawkings books, and specific scientists, so it seems that they're doint their homework and following a pretty good path of scientific theory to tell the story. So far what little they've said is plausible in the genre of normal SciFi-ish tales. :-)

Looking forward to your polls Memphish! Thanks for the link to Wood Maven.

Capcom said...

P.S. As for the Casimir effect, I have no idea how/if TPTB will explain how a clunky old piece of rock in the middle of the ocean can have the same effect and properties of a Casimir experiment in a controlled lab vacuum chamber environment, that only occurs so far on a microsopic scale to boot. That really takes a leap of faith and suspension of disbelief on my brain's part, but I'm going with it for the time being. :-o

Bill said...

I just went looking for this place again since I saw the ad for www.octagonglobalrecruiting.com. It's been a long time and I still have my Apollo bar from the lost experience.

maven said...

Welcome back, Bill! My Apollo Bar is still in my fridge, too! LOL Maybe we'll get some more when Octagon kicks in!

maven said...

I finished my LOST quilt. There are two new posts up on my Lost Quilt blog if you want to check it out!

Sayid'sgirl said...

It's been Sunday in the UK for a little over 31/2 hours now so...
Happy Birthday Fenris!!

Bill said...

Hey Maven! That's where my bar is too! We've moved since then and had a baby, gonna update my profile to use her pic :p

Ange said...

Hehe, you're right Sayid's Girl!
Happy Birthday Fenris!

maven said...

Great post at Lost Bullets, Ange!

Happy Birthday to Fenris!

DeDJeZTeR said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeDJeZTeR said...

Maven... Quilt looks great... and don't you know you should never refigerate chocolate... it seperates the oils...

Just popped in to mention a Lost Crossover With
The Ratchet and Clank game series.

I was just playing he demo for the PSP game Secret Agent Clank. Once you get passed the first part, to the second cutscene.

Secret Agent Clank Gets a set of coordinates and he says he doesn't recognize the coordinates

4 8 15 16 23 42

Then silly robot girl says something about those not being the
"RIGHT NUMBERS."

Just thought you might find that interesting.

maven said...

Dedjezter: Thanks for the chocolate advice. I don't think I'm ever going to eat it! LOL And thanks for looking at my quilt.

That's really cool about that game using the numbers! LOL

memphish said...

The Frozen Donkey Wheel teased and shown.

takes a village said...

Happy Birthday Fenris.
Ellen,
Congratulations on your Son's Graduation, and Ceremony.I know you are so proud of him.He will always remember how you and he worked together to achive a great victory.
Maven,Your quilt is spectacular.I'm going to have to watch that again.It is like a Lost Pictoral Encyclopedia.
Barb,thanks for bringing the Joop factor into play again.
Lost is complicated;Weaving a story composed of an old thread, a present thread,and a future thread does make understanding parts of it difficult. (not to mention the "wierd science") Until the final product is complete,we won't know all,or most of the answers.
However trying to figure out Lost, is almost as much fun as watching it.

Capcom said...

Happy B-day Fenris! *<:o)

Zort70 said...

Happy Birthday to all those I've missed !

Memphish - Thanks for that link on the FDW.

I'm signing off for a week or so as I'm off to France for a holiday and probably won't be able to get online. We are driving around the Champagne region and then spending a few days at the Le Mans 24 Hour race.

Bye for now, don't start any ARG's without me.

memphish said...

Zort, I am so jealous. A trip through Champagne is on my list of things to do, but the dollar is thwarting all my European plans these days. Have a great time!

memphish said...

If you are caught up on both LOST and Battlestar Galactica, you might like this comparison. I'm only through Season 2 of BSG, so I'm not reading it.

bigdog said...

Happy Birthday Fenris

Maven the quilt is so impressive.

maven said...

Thanks, Bigdog! Zort: I, too, am jealous! Have fun.

Memphish: Thanks for the link, but I'm waiting for BSG DVD's from Netflix. We're going to watch them this summer. Are you enjoying it so far?

Sonny said...

I love BSG been a fan since it start very good season 4 so fat has be great.

memphish said...

Maven, I've really enjoyed BSG. I watched Seasons 1 and 2 during the last LOST mini-hiatus and I've recorded all of Season 4 so far so that once I get to it, I'll have it available. I've purposely not started Season 3 yet because I hate the idea of having to wait until next January for new episodes of a show I'm dying to see. I'm sure I'll pick it back up before the summer's over though.

memphish said...

Final results of DarkUFO's fantasy league is up -- I finished 1860th which is terrible, but so much better than I was doing early in the season that I'm willing to post it. My friend, TLC lurker and occasional poster PGTBeauregard finished 48th. I'm telling you, because she wouldn't. :-)

memphish said...

DarkAardvark finished 19th! Congrats DarkAardvark!

Ironically someone named lostobsessed won.

maven said...

Congrats to DarkAardvark and PGTBeauregard! I finished a totally embarrassing 2090th, but hubby finished 866th (with a team I picked for him, BTW)!

It was sure fun to check the standings every week, but it was a totally random thing. It's really hard to guess what TPTB will up to each season, and a lot of luck is involved! But I'm sure DarkAardvark and PGTBeauregard used a lot of skill in picking their teams!

Sayid'sgirl said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sayid'sgirl said...

I finished at 1580.
But I picked my team with my heart not my head.

Congrats DarkAardvark and PGTBeauregard Great job!!

Maybe next time I'll chose more strategically.

Congrats to Mr. Maven too.
You picked him a pretty good team Maven.

takes a village said...

I finished 1410. G-man says we can start signing up for Season 5 in about 5 weeks, if anyone else wants to join in on the fun. ( The Lost Fantasy League)

DeDJeZTeR said...

Hey all,

I just founf the time to catch up and everybody is really putting their brains to the test as well as mine. Great stuff.

I guess in the league I would be last since I never figured out how to play. Going to try to do it this time around.
Congrats to the high scores.
Welcome backs to the peeps who came back.

Look forward t reading more when I get the time.

Dennis said...

Hi All!

FRINGE Update: Season premire has been pushed back by two weeks. The 2-hour season premiere will be September 9th.

Also, it turns out the Holomove ARG was for Microsoft :( Maybe they'll start one at Comic-con to compete with LOST!


DeDJeZTeR said... and don't you know you should never refigerate chocolate... it seperates the oils...

That's actually not true. I used to work at Godiva, and we kept all the chocolate refrigerated. Moisture is bad though, so it's a good idea to keep it in a ziplock bag if you do refrigerate it.

Amused2bHere said...

just dropping by for a quick hello

Hello!

Maven, I left a comment on the quilt blog--great job!

maven said...

Amused (and everyone else): Thanks for all your kind comments re my Lost quilt! Much appreciated.

So, Dennis: There is no Fringe ARG?

Ellen said...

From another discussion group:
JULIET: The problem occurs somewhere during the second trimester, when the mother's immune system is triggered. The white blood cell count plummets. It's like the... immune system turns on the fetus. So my take right now is that given the connection between healing
and the Island, maybe the Island has a "template" of what the
healthy person is supposed to be like, which is made when they first come to the Island. A pregnant woman who conceived on the Island would have a non-pregnant template, so someone growing inside them breaks the template, so the healing kicks in and tries to attack the fetus. A pregnant woman coming to the Island would be created as two templates (one for the mother, one for the baby) and each would
progress accordingly, so no problems.


This is from another group I read frequently because of the
insight into the physics and science of the show. I thought
that this was a very good explanation of why there are fertility problems on the island. Makes sense...what do you guys think?

xxoo

memphish said...

That's an interesting idea Ellen, but how does it explain Locke's legs, Rose's remission and Ben's tumor and Jack's appendicitis?

maven said...

Interesting train of thought, Ellen. Maybe these "templates" come to island with you as a healthy you. Therefore, Locke's legs, Rose's cancer, etc. have to be "course corrected" to live up to your template. I"m not sure how this would tie in to illness, etc. that occur on the island like Ben's tumor and Jack's appendix. Might be the island's punishment for some infraction.

Capcom said...

That theory could work for the pregnancy yes, but for the healing not so much, as Memphish said. I have to think about that one some more. I do like the train of thought though Ellen! I'm still also leaning towards the killer super-sperm theories too, for some reason.

memphish said...

My favorite theory is the Island killing pregnant women because of Ben's subconscious guilt about his mom. But it seems like the babies would live in those circumstances like Ben did.

Ellen said...

My personal thoughts on the subject are that I agree with the "template" idea in that I think that anyone who comes to the island has a template and it is whole whether they are or not and that those who do not match that "perfect" template are "fixed." (repaired, that is :D )
After all, a template is a "master copy", right?
I think this template is based on a DNA level rather than just a "snapshot" of how a person is when they come to the island.

xxoo

Dennis said...

maven said... So, Dennis: There is no Fringe ARG?

If there is one, nobody's found it (yet).

Fox seemed to imply that there was one to be found, and they also implied that Holomove was connected. However, they later backpedaled, so who knows what's going on. Still three months away... there's still time...

Capcom said...

Now I can see that idea a little better, Ellen :-)

Ellen said...

I agree Capcom, sometimes I find that people can see a very good idea, but they just need to think about it. The fellow that came up with this is a great guy, very nerdy type, certainly knowledgeable (sp?) but his ideas are too focused sometimes. I like this one tho! I think it has a lot of potential as a good theory!
xxoo

Capcom said...

Well, it was actually your additional thoughts on it that made me start to picture it better! It's as good a guess as anything. I hope that the births and healing things are not items that TPTB will not explain by the end of the show. They really aren't necessary to the main plot (just in a peripheral way) but I hope that's not the case.

Ross said...

It's certainly an idea Ellen and I'd say the template would be created by reading the base DNA of the person - it's not in Locke's DNA to have a broken spine, it's not in Rose's DNA to have cancer, it's not in Jin's DNA to have scarred pipework. All of those things would be fixed.

However, it IS in our DNA to have an appendix failure which is why Jack still gets sick and needs it removing, however I would mess myself laughing if the appendix grew back because it is also in our DNA to actually have it in the first place, therefore the Island's template sees it as a missing item and regenerates it!

However that's going too far down the line of regenerating missing limbs lol

The connection between healing and fertility is something I was getting at with my idea about the life-boosting EM field. I've since revised it a little and I think biological growth processes and cell regeneration are actually super-stimulated rather than decay processes are slowed. It amounts to the same thing really, but important when looking at the miscarriages and ultra-high sperm counts.

Super-stimulated foetal growth could be interpretted by the mother's immune system as a major parasitic infection or cancer and go crazy ape to rid the body of it (plus the immune systems are bolstered by the EM field too so they're even more effective).

Poor baby will have no chance.

Similarly, if cell generation is stimulated, then you'll produce more sperms than normal.

The classical writers did say the ancients had the Fountain of Youth after all ;-) which is basically my premise as you know from that massive post further up!

Capcom said...

LOL on the appendix, Ross!!!

I agree about the fetuses, etc. Someone on a blog recently referenced a SciFi book about how fetuses (fetii?) were mutating in utero, and becomming a new species, and being purged by the mother, etc. I can't remember who wrote it, maybe P.K.Dick? I dunno, brain's a blank right now. But it made some sense in the case of the EM on the island affecting the babies and the mother's body's response.

Amused2bHere said...

Capcom, that sounds like something Dick would write. :)

mmmkay by the looks of these comments we're going to have a looooong hiatus.

I'm looking forward to it.

maven said...

Any news, Melissa_lossa and/or David, re the Book Club? Are we gonna finish off Mice and Men and Lord of the Flies? What should I be reading?

This Octagon Global Recruiting ARG thing cannot come fast enough!!!

2costa said...

if the immune system turned on the fetus wouldn't the white blood cell count go through the roof instead of plummeting. A white cell drop would correspond with a drop in immune function, like aids, not a hyper active baby attacking immune system...just saying they gotta check their science. People think allergies are a weak immune system, where they are really the sign of a overactive immune system that attacks everything, you body eventually gets used to these things and stops fighting, for arguments sake dust, thatsa why most allergy therapies involve exposure to the allergen to get the immune system to stop fighting it. Generally accepted that's why people raised on farms have less allergies then city folk, becuase they are always bombarded with allegens on the farm, the city not so much...

2costa said...

i dont get why they are fascinated with deciphering the i-ching symbols in the octagonglobal recruituing commercial on darkufo, all the dharma symbols are i-ching symbols and i dont see anyone decyphering the i ching symbols surrounding the swan, flame, or whatever, or the fascination with the 8 spoked dharma wheel, the dharma name itself and ogtagon station signs all belies the eight spoked dharma wheel at the center of budhism. To me it makes perfect sense, the dharma whell is how you get out of the neverending loop of suffwering, especially in season 4 they have hammered home the loop them on the island(horace and the loop of cutting the trees, sawyers deja vu reference to jack in the finalee, among other things. I think that the island didn't want jack to leave, I think Ben's tweak or flipping the bird to the island was getting the oceanic 6 off the island and giving richard his beloved locke, this tweak is Ben's attempt to change the feedback loop of suffering. People always talk about alvar hanso saying that dharma is an acronym, but he also states that dharma is the one true way. To me it says he thinks it equally important as the acronym. The whole purpose of the island is to prevent the inevitable loop of suffering the valenzetti equation predicts, the change of the core values of the equation would be the mathamatical equivolent of nirvana achieved by the eight spoked dharma wheel that is the island...

Capcom said...

Where are they doing that 2costa, on the Forum or Theories sections?

2costa said...

maybe obsessed is too strong a word, i dont know somewhere on there capcom

maven said...

Capcom: I saw some I-Ching discussion under DarkUFO's screencaps sections.

Capcom said...

Thanks Maven, I'll check it out. I also feel that it's much ado about nuttin', but curious as to what they're saying about it.

Kyle/TheBookPolice said...

Decided to take the plunge and form a team for the Season 5 Lost Fantasy League over at Dark.

Keep your eyes peeled for Team NO WORMHOLES. It's set to compare with the rest of y'alls that join up.

takes a village said...

Go Kyle!
Dark says it will stay open for a month or two for anyone interested.

maven said...

I picked out my team, but I'm going to sleep on it before I submit it. I'm trying to really think this out with my head and not my heart! LOL Of course, there's no second-guessing Darlton as to who's going to figure prominently in S5.

Hope everyone has a great Father's Day Weekend with their families.

Codysmom said...

Hey, everybody! Great discussions going on here! Thanks for the links (ack attack was hilarious!).

Darn! I missed Fenris' birthday! Hope it was a good one!

maven, what a great quilt!!!!!

I like Doc Jenson's explanation (in his last article) about the "disappearance" of the island:

"THEORY The Island is located in another dimension, embedded in the space-time fabric of reality. Turning the wheel closed the portal to that realm; turning it again would open it back up. Which is all to say, I don't think the Island technically went anywhere; it is where it's always been"

Capcom, would that relate to the Moebius band?

As far as the pregnancy problem on the Island, I remember having an icky feeling that the jars in Jacob's hut might relate to that, but I hope that's not the case. I was wondering if the deaths of the mothers and babies were convenient to someone who needs "life extension". Maybe bringing Juliet to the Island was just for Ben's benefit (Juliet looks just like "her"). In any case, I hope we find out what Richard Alpert meant when he said the "pregnancy problem" that Ben was distracted by had led them away from their more important purposes... hmmmmmmmm

I signed up for next yr's fantasy league, still under the name codysmom. My new team is: Locke, Jacob, Ben, Penny, Ji-Yeon, Libby, Nadia, Claire (I'm really counting on Jacob making an appearance, here... lol)

I finished 1224 in the league this year. I started out so good - I think at one time I had 233. Oh, well, maybe I'll do better next time around, but if not, it's still fun:) At least I looked at the way they count points before picking a team, unlike last year when I just picked randomly...

Sayid'sgirl said...
I finished at 1580.
But I picked my team with my heart not my head.

LOL!


I hope you all have a great Father's Day Weekend!!!

maven said...

Okay, I submitted my Fantasy League team known as Maven (original, huh?).

Dennis, I do have a question about this in regards to this Item on the "How it Works" section of the Fantasy League: 3) We have a new field to enter this year which allows you to select the site that you would like your results to appear in. EG If you are a Lostpedia user and want to keep track of your place with other Lostpedia users make sure you select Lostpedia from the Select Site option. NOTE: Everyone is still included in the full table but this allows other sites to easily track their own tables etc. Owners of these sites should be providing details of the league in the appropriate forums/blogs/sites.
There is an entry for The Lost Community (which I clicked on). Doe this mean we are going to keep stats here (in addition to DarkUFO), and would you (or someone else) have to do something?

Codysmom: Thanks for the quilt compliment! I've got it hanging in my sewing room now!

Happy Father's Day!

LostIt said...

I have a team this year, too. Mine's just as original as yours, maven. It's "They've all lostit".

Only - what, 7? - months to wait!

Capcom said...

Hi All,

Could what relate to the Moebius band Codysmom?

Yes, I too am still curious as to what Richard meant by the "more important" matters!

Hey guys, I got to see Patchy today from about 6 feet away, at the Knoxville Adventure Con. He looks very nice in person, and had a neat 50s style shirt on, with a small diamond pattern down the side. I couldn't afford to pay for the autograph though, so I just got to look. :-(

takes a village said...

Hi everyone, An early Happy Father's Day to all you Fathers out there.
Mrs Village & I, will be on our way early tomorrow morning to spend a week with our Daughter and her family.It will be great seeing our Grandsons again.
I haven't picked my team yet.I'm going to try not to let my heart get in the way this time.One thing new next season, is your team member gets points if Sawyer calls them by a nickname.
Capcom,
sounds like you had a good time.

Capcom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Capcom said...

Yes, Happy Dad's Day to everyone.

That's an interesting addition to the point system Village. :-)

Sayid'sgirl said...

Happy Father's Day!! to all the fathers out there.

Twinkle said...

Hey, kids! I finished the season! We just got our 61 inch HDTV on Friday and served up the Lost Season 3 finale mega-sized on it! Awesome!

Here's what has me thinking the most...

When did the problem with giving birth start and why? I'm leaning towards thinking it might not always have been a problem. Did the DI know about it?

How is Charlotte related to the island?

My guess... she can't be Annie. Ben was born in the 1960's (year unknown) and Annie was his age. He met Annie in 1976/1977. Charlotte was born July 2nd, 1979 (according to Ben but Charlotte hinted that not be correct). The actress who played Annie was very young in Ben's flashback "The Man Behind the Curtain." It is slightly possible that Charlotte is Annie's daughter, given up for adoption. She might even be Ben's daughter too.

What led Ben to the anger that led to the Purge? Was it just anger with his father or with how Dharma handled Annie's pregnancy?

What led Ben to take another woman's baby and raise it as his own daughter? He could have passed her off to someone else like he did the rest of the children. Did it have to do with his feelings about Annie and her daughter?

Anyway, those are the questions that most preoccupy me right now. :-) Hope there's a new ARG!

Twinkle said...

That and if octagongloabalrecruiting.com is in cannon, then what is DHARMA doing recruiting in 2008? My first guess is that this is what Widmore and Sun came up with in that meeting we saw them planning in the finale.

Twinkle said...

(Sorry, that was Season 4 finale!)

maven said...

Hope everyone had a Happy Father's Day. We don't get to celebrate it until Tuesday when our son is off work!

BTW: There's a few new pics on my Lost Quilt blog showing where it's hanging now!

maven said...

Hey, Twinkle! Welcome to the fabulous world of big screen HDTV!

You ask some great questions (things have quieted down here a lot, and we needed someone excited with finishing S4 to bring in fresh ideas)!

I think that the pregnancy problem might have not been an on-going problem...otherwise where did everyone come from? It might be fairly recent. The island might be upset with the behavior of the people because they were living in New Otherton and not off the island. It might have been a punishment. Also, the Purge could have been brought on because Richard and the "Hostiles" didn't like the way the DI people were ruining the purity of the island. Ben was just a tool towards that end.

It would be cool if Annie was Charlotte, but the dates don't add up. Of course, people do age (or not age) strangely on the island. I'm leaning towards Charlotte being the daughter of Annie and possibly Ben. Maybe Annie and Charlotte left the island, and Ben had to fill the void by stealing Alex.

Well, we don't know how canon Octagon will be. Since it is DI related, I'm guessing we're going to see Mittlewerk Part II! This ARG can't come soon enough.

Twinkle said...

I'm leaning that way too. Could it be that the difficulties bearing children are somehow related to Annie's underage pregnancy?

Totally speculative scenario:

Annie gets pregnant underage (my two favorite theories are the father is Ben or that it is the result of a cradle robbing DI creep). Drama ensues within the DI community. Annie is mistreated and dies in childbirth. The baby is whisked off island to be adopted or secretly raised elsewhere. Meanwhile Annie joins the island's "ghosts" and as a result of influence (anger) no one can conceive and bear children there again.

I'm suspecting there was more going on than just Ben's anger at his dad which made him a willing participant in destroying the entire DI.

Do we know any details about what the ARG will be? Was there an official announcement?

maven said...

The only thing we've got (so far as I know) is the Octagon Global Recruiting site and commercial. Comic-Con seems to be the start time.

Twinkle said...

Podcast note:

You guy's were really hard on Locke. Locke didn't know what the flower looked like. He didn't refuse to be a leader or hedge about going down. Ben told him to go find a particular kind of flower and he didn't know what it looked like. Do you know what anthuriums look like? Locke just isn't the diverse genius that Ben is. Personally the interchange when Ben said, "You didn't know what anthuriums look like did you?" was my favorite funny moment of the show.

I think Locke values freedom over power. Ben is a power guy and likes to be in control. But I've always see Locke as more of an idealistic freedom philosopher versus a leader like Ben. I think Jacob/the island is like a father trying to force his child to take over the family business. If Locke fights becoming what someone else's expectations require him to be, then way to go, brother! It's not necessarily Locke's fault; it could be the island's.

Twinkle said...

(Typos, sorry.)

Why save the island? Good question. It seems like the fate of the island affects the fate of Earth somehow.

Why keep the island out of the hands of Widmore? What started Ben and Widmore feuding and who made up the rules of the feud? I hope they do flashbacks about that.

Twinkle said...

Oh wait - the flower part is tied with the orientation video while Ben is throwing metal stuff into the chamber. Soo funny! This episode just seemed so much funnier than the average Lost! I love it!

I think Ben knew what to do because Richard Alpert told him. Alpert is older than the DI.

Twinkle said...

I'm intrigued by the idea that Widmore was the leader of the island before Ben. That's good. He could have arrived at the island another way than the Black Rock. But if he was the leader who left the island and met Hanso on the outside, maybe that's how Hanso found out about the island and why he started the DI?

So when do we think the island moved to? The island was moved around New Year 2005. Maybe the Oceanic Six had a quiet year or two but then the island reappeared and the "ghost" appearances started happening?

Capcom said...

BTW, I didn't even notice Patchy in the new Indiana Jones movie, and didn't knwo that he was in it until I saw the promo for his appearance in the AdventureCon brochure! Did anyone else notice him? (as one of the Russians, of course) I totally missed it. :-(

Twinkle said...

I like the Black Rock being in the water when the island moved to underneath it idea. That's a good reason for why it's in the middle of the island.

Rose spoke with Miles around the time Faraday left with the last zodiac full of people. The zodiak was full of guys we don't know. Rose and Bernard are still on the island.

Twinkle said...

Official podcast from There's No Place Like Home Pt 1 says that the island stipulates that Ben and Widmore can't kill each other just like it wasn't letting Micheal die. That answers my question about the rules of their feud. Not a spoiler, just a clarification.

Ross said...

twinkle: here's another spin on the Locke and the flowers.

I personally believe Locke knew exactly what flowers to look for. The guy did an awful lot of reading preparing for his walkabout and judging by the amount of knowledge he has used in this tropical environment I really doubt his reading was limited to just "berries of the Outback".

Even though Locke needs Ben to reveal answers and such, he simply doesn't trust him and I really doubt he's going to be comfortable wandering down into an unknown DHARMA station just because Ben tells him that's what he needs. For all Locke knows the Orchid could be the microwave station and Ben's trying to fry his ass once and for all.

As a result he hangs back for a while and stalls, waiting or Ben to return then plays dumb with the "I don't know what they look like" routine. He was in teh correct location and it doesn't take a brain surgeon to just rummage around in that area behind every bunch of flowers to find the switch.

Basically, Locke played Ben this time.

Alternatively it was simply nothing more than getting Ben and Locke back into the Orchid station together and the TPTB working a touch of light-heartedness into the show before we turn the sky white and move the island, which sounds to me to be the most likely!

memphish said...

Wow Twinkle! You brought new life back to the blog. Your Charlotte questions inspired me to blog about her in my blog. That post will hit hit tomorrow. Yeah scheduled posting in blogger!

I did notice Mikhail in Indiana Jones, but only because I was looking for him. I had heard in advance that he was Russian Soldier No. 3. He must have had a line, but I missed that part. I just noticed him standing next to Indy in the warehouse in the opening scenes.

Twinkle said...

Thanks, Memphish! I can't wait to read your post!

Ross, you have a point that Locke could have been playing Ben. I like to think of Locke as rather naive and guileless which is part of his charm and his weak spot. I want more scenes with Ben and Locke because they are so doggone funny together!!

I haven't seen Indiana Jones and probably won't until it's out on DVD. When I jokingly asked my husband if I could run off to Comic Con this summer, he said, "Sure!" LOL! Oh so tempting! But really this summer I'd rather build a deck (sorry) and maybe next summer, before the very last season of Lost go to Comic Con!

FYSB said...

Hellooooooo LooooCooooo! It's smokin' hot down here in Texas, so keep that in mind as I share my tinfoil hat theory around Charlotte. (and if someone has already floated this, my apologies, I've been reading the posts diligently, but may have missed it)

The only two babies that were born on the island and lived (in my memory) are Alex and Aaron, both of whom were conceived off island.

So, if Charlotte had been born on the island it's conceivable that she was conceived elsewhere.

When Ben meets Charlotte for the "first" time, he shoots her. We also learn she's English.

In the present, we see Ben and Widmore in Widmore's bedroom with Ben telling Charles he's going to kill his daughter.

What if Ben isn't referring to Penny, but to Charlotte? Could Charlotte be a Widmore, either legitimately or otherwise? Coceived elsewhere, born on the island and taken away with Charles when he was exiled. (assuming he was the leader at some point)

Just something to toss out there to take my mind off the 100+ heat here.

memphish said...

FYSB, not a bad idea, but Ben says specifically to Widmore "your daughter Penelope."

2costa said...

heres something to fill the vacume...
these are the occupations listed on the octagonglobal commercial.
if you start at the end of the list with the first letter from each word you get...

DHARMA INITIATIVE
EABEJNCHDBEBMPZPPM

the first part makes sense but anyone come up with any anagrams for" EABEJNCHDBEBMPZPPM"

microbiologists
Psychologists
Parapsychologists
Zoologists
Physicists
Mathematicians
Botanical Researchers
Engineers
Builders
Drivers
Health Care Workers
Communication Specialists
Neuroscientists
Janitors
Engineers
Biologists
Astrophysicists
Ex-Military
E lectricians
V ets
I VF Consultants
T eachers
A rchitects
I chthyologists
T ransport Mechanics
I mmunologists
N urses
I llustrators
A uditors
M inibus Drivers
R ecycling Coordinators
A eronautical Engineers
H orticulturalists
D entists

FYSB said...

Dang it, Memphish, I clearly can't be bothered with those pesky details. ;>)

I'll still hold on to my theory that Charlotte is a potential Widmore.

As you were.

2costa said...

someone came up with this..
Just a follow up to the encryption post. I don't know if this is relevent but when you decypt "EABEJNCHDBEBMPZPPM" using a Monoalphabetic Cipher you get:

outofandstothereeh

Which is a anagram for both:

Out of the sand to here

or:

Out of here to the sand

2costa said...

prolly fake but inteesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5Z0muWxtmM

EABEJNCHDBEBMPZPPM has this tag on video

2costa said...

watch the octagon global commericail seems like the last few seconds is a splice of desmond pressing the numbers in the swan...

maven said...

fsyb: I think the heat has gone to your head! LOL I'm thinking that Charlotte has something to do with Ben and Annie.

2costa: Seems really fake to me. I don't anything is going to happen until Comic Con with Octagon.

Twinkle said...

So has anyone come forward yet to say they're going to go to Comic Con for us?

2costa said...

ya i agree the youtube thing is fake, but i dont think they have the encoded message in the occcupations if it didnt mean anything. so what is...

EABEJNCHDBEBMPZPPM all about, i dont expect anything til comicon, but i also dont think this is just a promo for comicon, i think comicon will start off an arg

2costa said...

damon said there will be communication silence til comicon, but i think after that is anyone's guess...last year they showed the orchid film at the comicon and many thought it was a joke or hoax, but it seemed to be pretty important to season 4, so at the very least i hope theres something like that at comicon...

Capcom said...

I like that video 2costa, even if it is fake, it's neat looking. The ARG fakes and red herrings are off and running! :-D

maven said...

So what's the deal with the mini-league table at DarkUFO re LFL? There are 10 Lost Community sign-ups. Calling Dennis....are you going to have to do something for this or do our weekly points just get posted here somewhere?

LostIt said...

RE babies born on the island and survived - what about Karl? Was he born on the island? Was he conceived on the island? Who were his parents?

Thrasher76 said...

Who's in on the new ARG?

This guy is!! Not sure how much or how often but I will be here or wherever we are going to regroup and solve it. hope to see you all soon.

Any ideas on where? The Lost Experience Clues new site?

maven said...

Thrasher: We always count on Dennis for new posts. Don't know if it will continue here or a new blog will start up. (Any thoughts on this, Dennis, or any other Admin still around?) I think the Lost Experience Clues site has been abandoned. :(

maven said...

FYI: I've emailed Dennis for his input.

Fenris said...

I'm in on the new Arg whatever it is. I may even do my weekly roundups as I did for Oceanic Conspiracies. However day to day stuff will likely be too much for me. It's hard to say though what the arg will even need. If it's not too involved it could probably be covered quite fine here.

Twinkle said...

Although rather canned, the last ARG was nice because we knew when we could expect stuff and when we could ignore it for the most part. I hope they have another one like that. My biggest beef though, let's have an ARG that we know is cannon!!

2costa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Capcom said...

Hey FYSB, Thrasher and Fenris!

Good question about Karl, Lostit, we don't know if he was brought on board like Ben, or was a conceived-off-then-born-on baby, do we? We just know that he got told about the Teddy Bear constellation when he was a kid, and had NO Brady Bunch reruns to watch!

2costa said...

i can't see Ben letting Karl be killed if he was born on the island, he would be too valuable towards solving the fertility problem!

maven said...

2costa: I hope that slip-up was not a spoiler!

Gang: I've been in touch with Dennis who said that another blog should be set up for the coming ARG (TLC is just for episodes, podcasts and book club). I'm sure he'll be posting here soon about it.

BTW: Fenris (hi) has a great new video homage to TLE1. Fenris (or Ange)..you need to post a link here!

maven said...

Also, BTW: Jorge has been posting great pics (of him and Naveen) from his trip to Monaco on his blog.

Capcom said...

Good thought 2costa. But did Ben "let" Karl get killed actually? He was with Alex, and despite how Ben felt about him, he wanted Alex safe, so most likely Ben did not actually want the mercs coming anywhere near Alex no matter who was with her. As much animosity as Ben had towards Karl, he mostly just caged him and tried to brainwash him to a pulp, right?

Sayid'sgirl said...

maven
That one picture of Jorge and Naveen facing the wall and looking over their shoulder was in the TV Guide. :)

Fenris said...

Thanks Maven. :) I did indeed do a video for my original DJ Dan remix track from the first experience. So if anyone fancies an amusing bit of nostalgia you can catch it either on the Bullets or direct on YouTube or MySpace

Anyway, glad to hear there will be a new site for the ARG. I will be there. :)

2costa said...

i doubt its a spoiler maven, they don't tell the cast much about the future plot,save matt fox. So i bet it was just some weird slip. I have trouble really thinking anything the cast says in major interviews is a spoiler. you know what they say you can't unring a bell. Whats the new arg website???

Twinkle said...

2Costa: What you said was a spoiler because it's about a future storyline TPTB said they are going to do. I found the same information on Spoilerfix.com and also found it intriguing. However, could you please delete your comment above? I assume we're still trying to keep this a spoiler free zone?

2costa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
2costa said...

On the DVD commentary track for "The Man Behind the Curtain" Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse describe Annie and Alexandra as the two most significant women in Ben's life. Annie is described as a character that is going to play a "huge part" in upcoming storylines: "Annie is going to prove to be very significant in Ben's life," and that even the island's volcano will be "slightly less important than Annie, but still seismic."(Season 3 DVD)

2costa said...

if your gonna say stuff on the previous season dvd is a spoiler, I'm sorry , but you have gone off the deep end.

cynthia watros didn't say she was annie or going to be annie, she mispoke and referred to her character on lost from previous appearances as annie, then corrected it to libby...

2costa said...

On the DVD commentary track for "The Man Behind the Curtain" Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse describe Horace and his companion Olivia as factoring significantly in the future "game plan" for Lost

BTW the last 3 posts were cut and pasted from non-spoiler pages of lospedia

2costa said...

Would commentary from already relaeased lost dvd's(season 3) on future story arcs be a spoiler????anyone???

Capcom said...

A slip-o-the-lip in a magazine interview is not in the same category as a DVD commentary. That's a spoilery risk by TLC guidelines, I think.

It rings too weird to be an obscure slip for her to mention that name, why would she have anything to do with that name as an actor unless she had some direct knowledge? Her character had nothing to do with that aspect of the show as far as we know up to this point. Too risky for here, IMO, and no harm done in removing it for the sake of courtesy and politeness for LoCos. :-)

Ange said...

FWIW I agree Capcom. I personally never look at anything that begins with Kristin on E! because she's always full of spoilers, and so stumbling on that kinda had me in a "aww jeez" mode today.

As always Costa I love your enthusiasm, but...

maven said...

I'm with saying that could be a spoiler. As Capcom said, there's no reason that the actress' character would have anything to do with Annie (as far as we know).

We're just hyper-sensitive here re spoilers. If there's any doubt, don't say it or ask first. Thanks.

2costa said...

theres no reason TPTB would tell cynthia watros that she was annie or this big deal two years ahead of time. Why would they paint themselves in a corner like that, if she did slip wouldn't she ask kristen to cut it out. I was referring to the other stuff as not a spoiler. Annie/ Libby are sort of simuliar names with the double consanant thing going. By this new super high bar for spoilerism, most of the lost experience(d.h.a.r.m.a) and find815(abbadon, sunda trench) would be considered spoilers, ironic considering that this started out as a TLE page, where we tried to piece every little intel would could into a theory about the future of the show. I'd agree if she was talking about some future appearance on the show and called herself annie that would be spoilerish. Besides anyone here already saw this so who exactly are we protecting?

I'm starting to like this idea of Libby is annie, would make sense i guess. Ben and annie are close, desmond and hurley are pivital to the oceanic 6 making it off the island, I cant see Ben letting annie get capped by mike though, plus libby seemed to be working against Ben in Meet Kevin Johnson.

I bet if you were to do a search Cynthia has played characters named annie before

2costa said...

in 1998 Cynthia Watros played "Annie Dutton Banks" on Guiding Light thats just the first instance i found

2costa said...

sorry the guiding light

2costa said...

maybe her character on fear itself is named annie that was the show she was actually promoting

2costa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
2costa said...

capcom i mean Ben would have always treated karl a little better or kept him in a tighter cage out of harms way if he was born on the island. All the trouble Ben goes to with julliette to have a successful birth on the island, i think karl would be more scientificly important to them. I suppose Karl could be like aaron and been concieved off island and just born there, but it was probably more like ben, where he was brought there young.

Has anyone every figured out how Rousseasu survived the purge, before they revealed the tempest gassed the whole island during the purge, i just figured she hid, I guess all she would need is a gas mask, but how would she know when to put it on?

2costa said...

TPTB dont let jorge say word one about the plot of lost on his blog, so i find it hard to beleive someone that get one paycheck a year form them would be privy to the canon prophesy of seasons to come. Honestly that kind of slippage would prolly mean being written off the show permananently IMHO, they've done it for less. Harold was a little disgruntled for getting killed in the finalee, anyone think they told him how the show was gonna end in 2010?

2costa said...

ive always suspected that someohow JI yeon and aaron will be the key to the fertility problem, one was concieved off island and born there and the other was conceived on the island and born in korea, bring those two together and you might get your answer, perhaps also why ben made sure both left in jan 2005 so they would be available to him off island and not harmed during his abscence from the island...

Twinkle said...

Thanks for deleting your comment before. Then you repeated the information. I didn't see a way to search for it, but yes I believe the DVD commentary and sometimes official podcast information is considered spoiler information. I wish we could discuss that stuff too.

Watros' slip of the tongue doesn't seem to be a spoiler to me, just interesting. The other stuff about the relative importance of certain characters and island features and whether they will be included in future episodes however is definitely spoiler information and should be deleted again. Sorry! If everyone else disagrees that's fine too.

Good question about how Rousseau survived the purge if it was island wide gas from the Tempest!

Twinkle said...

Above, I meant search for the spoiler guidelines for Lost Community. I thought it used to be linked in the side bar?

Ah! I found it!. Although it doesn't specifically mention DVD commentary, that would probably be covered under item #5, same as Official Podcasts.

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