Set your Tivo or DVR. Get some snacks and a cold drink. Find a comfortable spot in front of your television and turn to ABC. Then close your eyes and tap your heels together three times. And think to yourself, 'There's no place like home'.
Thursday, May 29, 2008
There's No Place Like Home (Part 2) - Season 4, Episode 13
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«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 556 of 556HELLO ALL!!! LONG TIME READER, NEW POSTER!!
Did you all notice that the recruitment dates of July24-27th 2008 in San Diego, CA. are the dates of the San Diego Comicon!!!
Probably will be some big reveal there. WOO HOO!
namaste
I'm new here, but I think I have a decent theory about the island and time travel.
First, Oceanic 815 crashed on September 22, 2004.
Second, at the press conference is held for the Oceanic 6, the spokeswoman for Oceanic says that the 6 came to the island of Sumba on day 108.
108 days from September 22, 2004, would be January 7, 2005. So Ben moved the island on January 7, 2005.
Third, when Ben moves the island, he is transported to the desert and then he travels to Tunsia. At the hotel, we learn that the date is October 24, 2005. This would mean that Ben moved forward in time by 290 days.
One could then argue that the island also moved forward the same amount of time and, like the bunny, its forward time travel makes it invisible to the people in the chopper.
Good Morning gang! I had to got to a graduation last night and the only thing that got me through it (besides the cookie after) was being able to read comments here in my e-mail.
I finally got caught up on all external feeds as well and Dark UFO had a post with three Popular Mechanics articles MythBusting the science of the finale. They were actually super readable.
Also, Jorge Garcia has a cute post on his blog today: Dispatches From the Island.
I have been bothered by Hurley's crackers. I KNOW, what a weird thing to be bugged by. But they specifically mention those 15 year old crackers twice now and how they are apparently quite good. I feel that while a cute throw away thing, maybe its alluding to how time passes on the island? See, here's the thing, the food drops are also bothering me, and according to one of the last OLP they said they will address that next season. What I wonder is that if the island moved and no one can find it, then how can drops be made "in perpetuity"? It leaves me with three questions:
1. Does this mean that the food is already on the island and hanging around in a storage area remaining delicious like the 15 year old crackers?
2. That someone really can find the island?
3. That there will be no more food? Weird thing to glom on to but there you have it.
Finally, HOORAY for all of the new names and posters...welcome!
Good morning locos. 2costa brought up the point that TPTB said the pilot was going to appear in a flashback. I surely missed that.
Capcom said Don't laff at our ladies' quilt blog, you, you, man! :-D Heehee.
the BigDog loves and respects all the ladies. (if i knew how i would make a little wink to you all)
maven the quilt is incredible.
I agree, the Bigdog is very respectful to the ladies. :-x
Interesting Kyle, some things to think about there. I really like the thought that movement of the island in time, rather than space, could have made it invisible to the Losties. Cuz think about it...if a person travels physically in time, then (theoretically) they are not in the present anymore, they are in that other time. Although that would not necessarily hide it from The Widman. I just can't wait to see if TPTB explain why that squirts Ben off the island to some remote (possibly a companion vortex?) location. I reeeeeeally hope that they don[t leave that one to the imagination, like all the rest that's been left there. :-p
LOL Ange. Interesting commencements, eh? :-)
P.S., Hey Pugzley! Let's hope that TPTB feel they need to out-do themselves at the Cons each year, as much as they say they do on the show. :-o
Where did Ben go? I kept thinking he was going to go to a cold place where he could finally die after he moved the island. He did the wheel and it was bright. I kept thinking...the Penny employees were in a cold place, were they in another lab, under the island too?
Morning all! Thanks for all the kind words about my quilt! Especially to Bigdog!
Ange: Great observation! What are they going to eat now? I hope that cow's days aren't numbered! LOL
Welcome to Kyle and Pugzley! Yep...ComicCon is always something to look forward to. TPTB have used it in the past to do something spectacular! And Kyle: Thanks for putting all the dates in perspective. The difference between 108 days and 290 days just shows that there's not a straight line time move.
Back to the sewing machine!
Oh yeah, about the food drop. Didn't TPTB say that just because it's "dropped" doesn't mean that it was flown in, or came from the air/sky, or something like that? Maybe it's teleported. Maybe there is some kind of homing beacon left on the island that Locke hasn't blown up yet, and it still works to allow inter-dimensional food drops onto the island. FOOP! Out pops the food pallet from the wormhole! :-D
just curious as to the website. ugh.....why can't i live in san diego still???
blast!!
oh.......whoops!!
sorry, almost forgot.......
PUR-GA-TOR-Y!!!
hahaha
i think the crackers being there for hurley and mentioned twice have signifcance in relation to hurley and food. When hurley first went to santa rosa after the porch collapse he started seeing dave. Perhaps if its a widmore or hanso facility they are giving hurley spiked food, with the same stuff thats in the apollo bars, remember hugo was skinny before cheech left and he left him the grandfather of the apollo barm, the glacier bar. If youll recall hugo was trying to get his weight under control and dave pushed him to keep eating. Hugo did not start seeing stuff on the island unrtil they found the swan food, after he gorged on some of that he saw dave again. I think its interesting that dave was trying to get hugo to kill himself on the island. Hugo sharing chocolate with ben in cabin fever reminded me of how horace and olivia let the dharma kids eat as much chocolate as they wanted.
i think Ben said locke would do more stuff then him because as i said before Ben has lived this all before, maybe minus some tweaks like alex dying this time.
i was also thinking in the way Ben implied the old rules that he and widmore stuck to, one couldn't hurt the anoited ones family, maybe this is why locke had to kill cooper and ben had to kill his own father?
a last thing that occured to me, this one is good. Perhaps where you die has an effect on where you can be a ghost. Christain and locke had to die off the island in order to have a presence on the island and dwell in the shack. Bens mom died off island and appeared to ben on the island. Richard pointed out long ago in that scene that where one died seems to be important. Conversly, Charlie, Libby. and Eko all died on iland and are appearing to people off the island, libby in the hospital and frieghter and charlie and eko at santa rosa. Side note was eko moving his own chess pices? the only two exceptions to this rule are dave and christain, whick have appeared both on and off island as apparitions, but dave didnt touch hurley till on the island, just as christain actually held aaron on the island, maybe chistain and dave can appear off island but not have any temporal influence like they have on the island, where as charlie has physical influence in the outside world slapping hurley, because he died on the island.
this leads me to another theory, if the annoited one has to leave for good if they move the island,maybe the last person that plays jacob gets replaced by the last leader of the others and they are banished from the island so they can die off island, and thus have a temporal presence in jacobs cabin? which is why locke had to leave in 2007 and die off island, the catch is you cant simply die off island, you need to do that, then have your body brought to the island like christain, may even explain reginas actions. Where you died has no bearinf on where you can appear in dreams, like boone died on the island, but appeared to locke in dreams or horace the same thing, but horace and boone never had a real presence on the island,i.e. couldn't slap hurley with a slipper.
more later
FYI........my email submission went through and said I'd be contacted by a recruiter shortly.....
eh........if it's like "the experience"...."shortly" means within 2 weeks!! hahaha
Too True Chucklez!
And as I requested 2 or so years ago.....sure wish I could get a walk-on role on the show!
Even if it was to just "debunk" my real-life theory! hahaha.
Even 10 seconds.....come on ABC/Lost PTB........it would be a great move by you and a great opportunity for one of the biggest fans!!
*whispers to other bloggers*.......you think they're listening (reading)??? haha
It's been a long, long time. I saw the commercial, my wife cringed, and I thought I'd stop in to say hi to everyone.
I think I'm ready for another game this summer.
Since locke had already visited kate, and told her they need to get back, do you think that claire was telling kate "you better not take him back", meaning Locke and not aaron?or possibly jack? Considering claire through Christain knows of the dark two years on the island with locke as the anointed leader of the others. Obviously things have gone bad on lockes watch. Heres a thought, when Ben said much is expected of the chosen one, maybe he was referring to the fact that the chosen one cant leave while hes in office so to speak, then cant come back when his time is up. Thats why Ben hasn't left the island probably for fifteen years, ben has had richard and ethan and tom doing his off island bidding. Ben took over the others 12 years ago at the purge, maybe ben was doing henchman work for the previous leader of the others off island 15 years ago, i might add that it was strongly hinted at that ben had been to tunesia recently on the hotel dossier, but he said it was a long time, since he was at the orchid fifteen years earlier so a long time to ben but not the world. What if fifteen years ago 1990 lets say ,ben jumped in the orchid and went to tunesia 2005, two weeks before his most recent visit? Maybe Ben arraignged for nadia to be killed, then jumped back to 1990? How else did ben have the intel on nadia? Only other option is ben has support off island and they had the intel waiting for him at the hotel, he also knew what hotel and alias Charles would be staying under.
has anyone ever theorized that charlie pace is related to charles widmore? heck if abbadon could be walt then maybe charlie pace could be charles widmore. With all the eastern religion on the island(dharma) reincarnation isn't mentioned much, despite richards obvious test for locke that was like the reincarnation test for the dalei lama?
im thinking that The oceanic six wern't meant to leave, but that was Ben's tweak, he intended on having sayid help him later. Obviously the island let jack leave, but it was begrudginly(appendicitis), perhaps thats why Ben station julliette with jack to parry the islands move of trying to get jack sick so he couldn't leave, maybe that also why Ben set the stage for miles and chardaniel to stay, maybe they are part of why its a dark 2 years. If locke is back from the island I can only think he was banished like Ben, locke could only hold the reins for 2 yrs compared to bens 12, I feel richard was intent on having locke take over thats why he seemd to be pulling for locke to pick the book of laws. I suspect Ben had a hand in making locke choose the knife instead through his life, i feel cooper was working for Ben. When Ben was leaving and locke asked him what to do he said "i know youll find your way", i read into that that Ben knows locke won't follow "the rule" or "laws" if you will, because you can tell john what he can't do knot even richard. Richard is expecting Locke to be the weak puppet leader that locke has always been(weak part anyways), but surprise Ben has tuffened Locke up so he wont be richard's beeyatch
don't tell john what he can't do, is what i meant
did you see that deleted scene from the economist up at darkufo, it's quite interesting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDFyx0ywyXo
heres a deleted scene from season 4 ep 1 between sawyer and jullitte that seems to foreshadow how it ended this season
Here's a few thoughts:
1. If we believe Widmore planted the freckage, then perhaps he planted it in the Sunda trench because that is where the Island was when it "caught" the Black Rock, so that's where he figured it was near.
2. Kate saying "I'm sorry" over and over again to Aaron: maybe she was apologizing to Aaron for the loss of Claire, for the way Jack left him, for the way his life is so messed up and he doesn't deserve it...hey, new moms apologize for everything when life stinks and their children suffer, don't we? Although, Kate doesn't have the post-partum hormones...Is she counting Claire's appearance as just a dream? Hm, I wonder if she'll see anyone else?
3. Was that really Locke, or a Bunny#15 doppleganger? That is my personal hope, I don't want John to be dead.
I said a long time back I thought the food drops must originate from the island. I guess if they still happen after the move that must be the case.
So sad to see lost2010 leave us. :*(
I hope lost2010 returns if there is an arg to play with.
I wonder if someone is going to blame Locke for the explosion of the Orchid (he was there when it happened).
anyone else notice the common theme of eko getting his urge to build a church with charlie and eko chopping trees to horace building his cabin for him and the little lady.
if the person on the phone is telling kate that "she needs to go back before its too late" as she's visited by claire telling her not to dare take "him" back to the island. Are those dueling messages in the same dream, or is claire telling her to go back just without "him"
Hey Fenris can you elaborate a little on your theory on an ancient Antarctic civilization? I think that's going to have some merit maybe soon here.
I touched on that in an old bullets. I think I will return to that theme in a future one as a lot of what I have seen this season makes me think I was on the right track. :)
Although admittedly there is a minor flaw with the Antarctica link fitting in with the theory on Polar Bears because that is the wrong end of the planet. But perhaps it could work out that both are true. *shrug*
I wonder if Ben's reason for bringing Locke's dead body back to the island is similar to Locke bringing his dead father's body back to Ben.
IT is a symbolic gesture. If he brings back the dead body of the leader, he gets to be leader again? But he has to bring back everyone (including, or especially, Aaron?), not just Locke's dead body.
re Kate apologizing to Aaron, I'm wondering if she has decided she has to go back and can't take Aaron with her because of the dream with Claire and will therefore have to leave him.
Amused2bhere: I, too, am hoping that the person in the coffin is Locke#15! I can't see the next 2 seasons with a dead Locke. Jack had to bring a "dead" Christian to the island. Maybe he has to do the same thing with a "dead" Locke.
In Kate's dream there is indeed some confusion. The phone call tells her to go back, but Claire tells her not to take "him". Maybe the him is Ben. Maybe Ben is just trying to hitch a ride with the O6, since he told Locke whoever moves the island can't go back.
(BTW: What happened with Lost2010?)
(Also, BTW, Amused2bhere: I answered some of your questions about the quilt on the blog!)
New Summer Avi ------------->
Just like Ange with her Crackers, there has been something bothering me as well.
We all know that Sawyer is an avid reader, has he never read the story of the little boy that stuck his finger in the dam, why didn't he just climb out and shove his shirt in the whole, he didn't seem to want to be wearing it anyway... lol
And if you watch Frank and desmond that is all they really did. They stuck fabric in the whole and put a piece of Duct tape over it.
He didn't have to jump, he could have just plugged the whole.... AAAArrrrrggggghhhhh!
And what happened to Lost2010???
Hehehe DeD, I am so glad you said that about Sawyer's shirt. I thought exactly that, and also noticed that he didn't happen to kick off his shoes to swim better...
But really, I ultimately think that Sawyer just didn't want to leave that island and was more than willing to make that jump.
Oh and awesome avi!
another thing i though of. In judaism, there is a prophesy for the messiah and specific things have to happen. Some interpretations of the torah say He was to die and come back to life after 3 days thats part of the deal. AS you all know early christianity was a sect or cult of judiasm, they folled kosher laws, the only thing that distinguised them was they though the prophesy had been fufilled.
But interestingly enough the mashiach(messiah)("anointed [one]") is a term used in the Hebrew Bible to describe priests and kings, who were traditionally anointed. For example, Cyrus the Great, the king of Persia, is referred to as "God's anointed" (Messiah) in the Bible.
In Jewish messianic tradition and eschatology, the term came to refer to a future Jewish King from the Davidic line, who will be "anointed" with holy anointing oil and rule the Jewish people during the Messianic Age. In Standard Hebrew, The Messiah is often referred to as, Méleḫ ha-MaÅ¡Ãaḥ literally meaning "the Anointed King."
That notion is more like the idea of more than one messiah, like a line of kings. Many think this is a line of rabbis as you know rabbi names are preceded by BEN
The rest of the non-christain jews thought this other guy Simon bar Kokhba was the real messiah. Simon bar Kokhba was the Jewish leader who led what is known as Bar Kokhba's revolt against the Roman Empire in 132 CE, establishing an independent Jewish state of Israel which he ruled for three years as Nasi ("prince," or "president"). His state was conquered by the Romans in 135 CE following a two-year war. He became the last king of Israel in history.
Originally named Simon ben Kosba (BEN Koziba), he was given the surname Bar Kokhba (Aramaic for "Son of a Star", referring to the Star Prophecy of Numbers 24:17, "A star has shot off JACOB") by his contemporary, the Jewish sage Rabbi Akiva. He was though to be the messiah, but mush like locke went through a name change after his failed rule
After the failure of the revolt, many, including rabbinical writers, referred to Simon bar Kokhba as "Simon bar Kozeba" ("Son of the lie").
I wonder if this is like locke becoming jeremy. Maybe Ben's mom named him Ben Knowing the significance that Ben was the son of Jacob.
This all brings me to this notion, perhaps there are certain critria for the annointed one on the island, and one of those criteria of the prohesy is that He will slay his own father, that would make sense why Ben ritually seperated his father from the purge and killed him personally and why locke had to kill his own dad and the croud of others bloodlust...
I wonder who is the new annointed one on the island in 2007, now that Ben and locke are both off island. Maybe sawyer, richard, or even miles(he does have the gift) is the new leader of the others
Hi Loco's I hope everyone is having a wonderful after-party weekend.
When the Island picks a new leader;Miles would be a natural,or super-natural.Maybe Lock blows up one too many Island Historical Sites and gets on the Other's last nerve.
Chucklez3,
Good to hear from you I hope things are going well.
Maven;
great quilt.It is going to be indescribably delicious.
Welcome to all you new peeps.
And don't leave yet Lost2010,we're just getting started:)
Wow i loved this episode...sheer amazement. But the stupid writers strike made our season of Lost here shorter...if it were longer...we could've had more explanations...
Hi all! I'm so excited to finally see the finale this thursday here in Aussie.
Shadow posted this link at Ninja's blog which may be the start of the new ARG. I don't know where he got the link from but it looks pretty interesting. :)
See you after the finale and hopefully during the new ARG! Yay!
Ooops! Here's the link...
http://www.octagonglobalrecruit ing.com/
Have fun Patch!!!:-D
You'll love it Patch and all the other Aussies! I envy you guys seeing it for the first time!
Lost 2010 said: I think I'm all speculated out on the last episode. Thanks for all the good discussion this season. See you guys next year.
We hope it's not true!
Dedjezter, lol@your new avi/business card! So clever ;)
hi Chucklez, glad to see you are still among us.
Good to see so many new names: welcome!
Well it's taken me all morning to catch up with the comments and I haven't got a huge amount more to add.
Finally a scene of London that looks like London, because it was shot in London !! Seems like an awfully large amount of effort was spent getting that short scene, not that I'm complaining about TPTB giving 110% in effort.
Ben turning the wheel and being effectively banished from the island rang several religious bells with me. e.g. an angel being cast out of heaven, or even dare I say, Jesus being told to go into the wilderness for 40 days and nights. His final word to Jacob was almost a "Why have you forsaken me..." type of thing.
I think someone has already said that Ben is being tested and will pass that test by returning to the island with Locke's body, this is my theory too.
I don't think that Ben has been duplicated, otherwise everyone on the island would have been duplicated, I don't think proximity to the exotic matter should count, but it is exotic so who knows ! Maybe the amount of times the wheel is turned determines how far into the future the island goes ?
I'm also trying not to imagine everyone trying to get back to the island, with comedy music in the background and Locke's body being put into daft situations !
Does the everyone include Desmond, Penny, Frank, and anyone else that might have left in the time between the island moving and Locke being in the coffin.
I decided to wait until Sunday to see the final episode on Satellite TV rather than download it, as my parents were staying with us because it's there 40th Wedding anniversary this week and we had a family meal to celebrate.
By 8pm on Sunday I was going nuts trying to keep away from the internet and the download sites !
I think a lot of what we've seen is pretty cut-and-dry for a change, and it's actually a refreshing change I think. I find myself screaming at the TV purely because I want to see the narrative continue to explain things we see, not because my head is spinning about "what is that" or "what does that mean".
Enough information has been presented, certainly for me, to put together some pretty solid theories about what the island is (I'd be happy to share), what's happened on it and the overall conflict our survivors have found themselves in the middle of, and I'm happy now to focus purely on the narrative of the story - hell, we had 3 years setting the scene and as of Season 4 NOW the story can start.
In a silly way, we've had so much complexity over the 4 years I think we're automatically looking for the most complex answers and overlooking the obvious and the established.
For instance, there's nothing magical about Locke leaving the island, in fact it's actually a simple and common occurance - you just need to know in which direction to point: Alpert left the island a ton of times (e.g. testing young Locke, recruiting Juliette), Tom left to meet Michael in New York (and judging by the R&R companion he had I'd say he'd tripped off the island a few times), the chopper and Zodiac did plenty of trips to and from the freighter, etc. Granted, Locke blew up the submarine the Others were using and now the island's (potentially) in a different location so we'll have to see HOW he does it, but that's a totally different question. By this reasoning it's obvious that Ben's left many times to gain intel and set up/use a network across the rest of the world (Tunisian hotel for example).
It's been a while since I was active here so if we do indeed have a new ARG I'm likely to be back in force!
Hi there - I'm an old contributer from TLE days, but the fantastic final episode of the season has inspired me to post again.
Plus I'm very excited that there might be a new ARG this summer (only hope it is in the UK as well). I was very happy to be on the Glyph leaderboard in the good old days ...
Anyway, one question that doesn't appear to have been addressed by anyone - why did Claire leave Aaron? She always seemed such a good mother, what did Christian do or say to her that would lead her to abandon him? Seems very curious to me.
Something tells me it links to the fortune teller saying to her something like 'you musn't let your baby be brought up by an other'
On John Locke/Jeremy Bentham:
I don't think there's any real mystery as to this whole thing.
The narrative will tell us in time what's happened on the island that's been SO bad the Island/Jacob has demanded that the 6 who left are returned. Maybe the Island/Jacob/Others have tried other ways but in the end it's come down to Locke having to do the persuasion personally, assuming an alias so he can remain incognito. Of course, Widmore and other groups are on the case too, keeping a close eye on the Oceanic 6 (for instance) so it's entirely possible Locke was just discovered and eliminated, presumably by parties who do not want the island stabilised by the return of the O6 (i.e. Ben).
superdifey:
Clare hasn't left Aaron. Now that she's dead she's gone all Obi Wan instead.
This is assuming that the common belief is correct and Clare really is dead. Personally I can't see how she could survive the New Otherton attack. TPTB's writing has been a bit ropey from time to time but it's never been bad enough to have her survive her house exploding.
Which, as an aside, makes me believe that the Island has something for Sawyer to do because the mercs just could not hit him, even though they were pinpoint accurate taking out redshirts. Again, TPTB's writing isn't bad enough to allow Sawyer to survive purely for dramatic effect.
Ross Said : ...and it's actually a refreshing change...
I think it's the first finale that answered more questions than it asked !
hey guys, hope your weekend was LOST filled
Has there been any break throughs in OGR? I have recieved no email. Grrrr.
Going along with my Locke/Jeremy theory....maybe it's the bunny 15 thing. Just a thought...HI ALL
2Costa - Agree about the time travel explanation not a duplication as such.
For an excellent example of another TV series using this idea see the Doctor Who story Mawdryn Undead.
I think a lot of people have misinterpreted the origianl orchid video as duplicating the bunny, thats totally not what happened. The orchid transported the number 15 bunny from say 20(for arguments sake) minutes earlier to the present, where the bunny was still present in the in the present(the past bunnie's future), for that moment there were 2 bunnies in the same room, but its the same bunny not a duplicate. 20 minutes in the past, where the bunny came from, there is no bunny at all because he is now with himself in the present. Thats why halliwax freaks out, because in a lot of time travel lore if you touch yourself from a differn't moment in time paradoxs happen, some even think the fabric of reality might fray from these type of events. So thinking there is a duplicate locke makes no sense, If he is indeed, transported to a time where he is also present, that still means he's missing from the time he came from, I hope you follow. SO even if you could technically say take 2000 locke and tranport him to 2004, it would be appear there are two twin lockes, but its the same locke, plus he would no longer be in 2000, so to avoid a paradox he would have to go back to 2000 at some point or else the realtime locke of 2004 wouldnt be there anymore because he would have dissapered from the timeline in 2000, which illustrates that only a future locke say 2007 could be in the same place as a past locke say from 2004, because locke missing in the timeline in 2007 wouldn't impact the existence of 2004 locke. The more likely scenerio if you only move foward in time is, is like what happened to Ben, you jump from jan 1st 2005 to 200+ days in the future, and theres no paradox because, there is no Ben on the plantet for that 200+ days, then he reappears. This brings me to my ultimate point, I believe the donkey wheel can only safely move the island into the future and not the past, I think the vault, that ben messed up, was more precise and could send a person back or forth, but was meant to send people not the whole island. If you were to move the island to the past it would collide with itself in space and time and be really bad paradox or fabric of reality wise, almost like to any x-men fans out there, nightcrawler can teleport through space but not time, but if he were to say Bamf(teleport) from an open park to a building he had better know the layout of the building, because if he doesnt he might bamf in between floors and die, or say if he teleported into anything that was solid he'd be toast. Well the same applies to the island it would have to move foward in time only because if it went back in time to the same location, shit hits the fan, because it would bamf into itself, and that would be bad beans. but if it move foward in time it would transport to the same missing spot it left, and techinically the island wouldnt exist for the time it was gone, just like BEn...
i was thinking that the job of the leader is to hide the island, if you fail and someone dangerous finds the islandand the donkey wheel gets turned you get banished, by the virtue of having to be the one who turns the wheel. Then the island which was far form invisible could just blend into wherever it went for a while like the greek islands or hawaii, while still maintaining the crazy wormhole storm around it for security. Thats could buy you ten to twenty years easily, becuase the earth is so bit, even if theres 10 hotspots that widmore may look for it, it's still a needle in a haystack.
2Costa - Now we have our own time anomaly as I've replied before your post :-0
hey all, I'm still uneasy, even with all the explanations as to why
a) John Locke's name in the future is Jeremy Bentham
b) why is he dead?
c) How did he die?
d) Is claire in fact dead? And if so, how did she die?
e) what is going on with Christian Shepard
f)Was Kate in fact talking to Swayer on the phone when Jack got upset? or was she talking to Jeremy/Locke
Finally got all caught up...
Melissa_Lossa said... lostit - I wondered that, too - it was hard to tell. I think they showed Dan and the others shielding their eyes from the light, but I couldn't tell if they moved or not.
The light seemed much brighter on the Zodiac than on the helicopter, so they must have been a lot closer. It would be interesting if everything in the water got moved - zodiac, boat wreckage, Jin...
memphish said... Since the sky purpled when Ben turned the wheel, does that also mean the island moved when 815 crashed and Des turned the key?
That's an interesting possibilty, which could explain how the island should have been in the middle of the pacific ocean when the plane crashed, but ended up near the sundra trench. However, Des turning the key is what enabled Penny to find the island... unless she detected it after it moved...
bigdog said... Ok, have to admit, i feel like the guy not in on the joke when it comes to the donkey wheel.
The "frozen donkey wheel" was mentioned in the Official Lost Podcast. It was the code word used by the writers for the big surprise in the finale. Only, in this case, it was not a code word at all.
lol zort
i think thats exactly right the freighter and the hydra island all went with the island, dan was so freaked about the oochid becuase he knew he could lose time of his life so to speak as it stands if the island moved like ben in time, everyone lost 200+ days on the island as related tot the real world, I'm hoping the island heals Jin or something.
Why wouldn't Daniel want to stay with Charlotte?
Perhaps because his constant is now off the Island (Desmond). If Dan has a problem, he's in big trouble!
I had never previously considered the fact that Claire had died in the attach. Previously, when someone had died, they were generally shown as being killed, and then having no heartbeat etc. When they returned, they could only be seen by one or two people. In this istance, we didn't see Claire die, and she was seen as being tangible by Sawyer, Locke, Ben and Hurley. I need to rethink my thoughts over this!
I think that Locke changed his name to Jeremy Bentham as security. If he came back to the US with the name John Locke, people might realise that he was on flight 815. By changing his name, he is protecting both himself and also against speculation there were other survivors. I assumed that choosing the name of another philospher was just a pun, a way of linking the two names.
Blogger just ate my post I'll try again.
ross
I agree with you. I don't think there's anything magical about Locke leaving the island either. Like you said others have done it including Ben who always used alias' Locke using Bentham is just that. Ben said his people were waiting and willing to share everything they knew. I imagine this was part of it.
2costa
I agree. I think they just moved the island ahead in time. I think the island is still in the same place as it always was.
In the Orchid video he said theywere going to attempt to shift the tst subject 100 milliseconds ahead in 4 dimentional space. For the briefest... moments the animal will appear to disappear but in reality....
So I think the island is in the same place and when it catches up with it's self in time it will "reappear". Don't know how far in time it went though.
I don't know what's going on with Claire but I don't think she's dead.TPTB said we should ask what's going on with Claire not if she's dead.
I also think Jack in yin to Locke's yang or vise versa. I think they have to protect the island together. That Locke can't do it alone. It's just a thought.
This was worded much better the first time.
See what happens when I'm in a hurry a dozen typos.
Great comments LoCos!
I also would think that maybe the island has traveled in time only and not in space technically, because if a person travels in time (as far as we can guess that is) they leave the present. So that could be the same with the island, especially as you say, because of what the video said. Although, in the script the characters say "move", but that might just be a figure of speech or also to throw us off.
Sure glad we have this LoCo think-tank to work these things out! :-D
I've been thinking about the timeline and Locke/Bentham....
Locke/Bentham told Jack and the rest of the O6 that in the two years since they left bad things happened. What could have happened?
The O6 left the island in 2005 and the "present time" is 2007 or 2008. What do we know about that time period? In 2006, according to the TLE, the Helgus Antonius was on it s way to the island with a virus thanks to Mittlewerk.
It remains a mystery to me, though, what the O6 can do about that situation? How can their presence on the island have an effect on mitigating the consequences of the virus?
Lostit, it would be sooooo juicy if TPTB can work some of that TLE stuff into the show, for the 2006 time period. Yowza. But was it our island? Wasn't it more near India? Nevertheless, bring on the TLE! :-o
Lostit: That would make sooo much sense if the "bad things" were related to TLE! We know how bad Mittelwerk can be! LOL
I'm assuming that the island moves forward in time. But when everyone watched it happen, does that mean that where they were in time changed? Let's say the island moved to October, 2005 (the same time Ben moved to), then the people in the helicopter (for example) couldn't see the island anymore because they were still in 2004? This is so hard to explain: If I'm sitting in my chair staring at a TV set, and the TV moves 1 year ahead in time, but I don't, wouldn't I still see the TV set? It might be a year older and a little dusty on top, but wouldn't it still be there?
Yeah, that's the problem with that Maven. But if you think about it in terms of the video like Sayidsgirl said, it might disappear momentarily. But why a momentary disappearance would hide it from Wid I don't know. Actually moving it would make more sense in terms of hiding it.
Unlesssssss, in combination with the earth rotating, the island disappears momentarily into the time void, the earth spins, the island's previous location moves in space with the earth's rotation, and the island reappears in the same latitude but different longitude, and voila, it's moved a little bit to the West of where it was previously.
But, that leaves out my vortex theory that I want to cling to so badly. :-D
Sooooo...the island appears to disappear for a period of time, until it catches up with itself. By that time, whomever was looking at the spot it was in when last seen, has moved on?
capcom
Maybe because they're going ahead in 4 dimentional space has something to with it.
The people watching are in 3 dimetional space correct?
So maybe that's why it disappears for awhile. Until it re-enters 3 dimentional space.
Don't know just a thought.
I guess I kind of contridicted my orignal post but maybe it works hand in hand. Time and 4 dimentional space.
Isn't that how wormholes work? Or am I wrong on that?
I'll have to go look that up again. My memory isn't that long. :)
maven:
You've got your TV set the wrong way around. You wouldn't see your TV set for a whole year until you caught up with it.
Think "Back To The Future"...
Doc Brown put Einstein into the Delorean and sent him 1 minute forward in time.
From Einstein's perspective: the Delorean exited the timeline and re-entered it 1 minute further along. The effect was instantaneous.
From Doc & Marty's perspective: the Delorean exited the timeline and vanished. After experiencing the timeline properly, 1 minute later Doc and Marty arrive at the point where the Delorean re-enters the timeline and they see it flash back in.
So in the case of the Island, for anybody caught in the energy's area of effect, the jump forward in time would be instantaneous and truth be told they'd never know the difference.
For anybody outside of the area of effect, the island would simply vanish and would not exist again until they'd caught up with it.
This is, of course, the island has indeed travelled through time.
I don't think the failsafe key moved the island - the sky was a different colour.
Swan Hatch going up caused the Purpling however the Donkey Wheel created a white energy burst, so if anything it's the Whitening.
Frozen Donkey Wheel sponsored by Colgate.
While I think about it, I think it could be worth noting a point about the Orchid and the Exotic Matter.
We've seen from the DHARMA Orientation video from TLE that THF chose the Island for its unusual electromagnetic properties. This shows that the Island was always special before DI was set up. As a result everything we've seen was made possible because of the Island's properties, but DI technology is effectively reverse-engineering what's already been left by a more advanced civilisation (Lemuria/Mu).
As a result, DI was able to harness what they believed to be crazy properties of the Island and develop their advanced technologies. But although human ingenuity has enabled DI to move a bunny 100ms forward in time using a specialised chamber, it's nothing compared to the Island machine.
Personally, I don't think THF even know what's underneath the Island.
This would also explain why Jacob doesn't like technology - after thousands of years of existence, this revered place has been invaded and raped by DI and their technology.
Faith vs Science on a scale far greater than Jack and Locke.
My problem with only travelling in 4 dimensional time is that the earth is rotating and orbiting the sun during this intervening period.
So unless you make exact calculations about how far to travel into the future (or the exotic matter knows what it is doing) then you will end up in the same space you left, but as things are moving the earth will no longer be where you left it.
Don't you just hate not remembering where you parked your earth !
In theory this means travelling exactly 365.25 days or a multiple there of, to be exactly where you started.
I'm being very picky about this and I know that we don't watch it for the scientific accuracy, but I'm always amazed when space is never taken into consideration when time travelling, otherwise you might as well call the Island a TARDIS.
zort: I entirely agree about travelling purely along the 4th dimension and to be honest I have a gut feeling that "moving the island" isn't going to be temporal, purely spacial.
Look at it this way, moving the island to another point in time is only going to give Widmore the upper hand. You can't move the island backwards in time because it's going to conflict with itself in the past, which means any temporal shift would have to be into the future, meaing that Widmore will have had extra time to plan his next move and have plenty of surveillance in place to detect the island once it rejoins our timeline in the future.
The Others, on the other hand, will have just skipped over x amount of time and will be totally unprepared for Widmore's next attempt.
I have faith in TPTB obviously but at this point in time (no pun intended) I cannot see how shifting the island through time is going to help them.
Unless, of course, that's entirely what the terrible 2 years is all about and why Locke leaves the island to get the O6 back.
Of course it's possible that the Island Machine (I'm calling it that - I've watched too much Mysterious Cities of Gold recently lol) is capable of very precise spacial and temporal movements when under the control of somebody who knows what they're doing (i.e. the original creators), however I'm sure even the Others have lost most of that knowledge over time, so turning the FDW in and of itself simply gets the Machine running for an almost random jump/leap/teleport/shift (which dumps whoever's at ground zero somewhere totally random too - the ancient equivalent of the Swan's failsafe key?)
Boy, you go offline for 3 1/2 days and you've got a world of comments to get back to!
First hi to all of the new posters. I'm glad you're here and hope to see even more when the ARG gets going.
Sorry that this will go back to last Friday's comments, but hey, they were good ideas. I'll probably break it up into several posts, so beware of the serial poster. :-)
Big Dog said: also when ben kills keamy and blows up the freighter wouldnt that make the island safe again. since all the bad people are dead?
I wondered that too. I guess Jacob's move the Island pronouncement was the same as a banishment sentence. It applied whether or not the threat still existed.
And this raises a bigger point for me. A lot of people have interesting theories about how the Island moved only in time, and it's no longer visible, but it's still there. Well if that's the case why can't Widmore or Ben or Penny or Jack find it in 2007? Is it still ahead in time of that date? Or would you guess it moved only ahead to October 24, 2005 where Ben moved? If it only moved in time, that means that Ben, the O6, and Locke's body are going to have to travel forward in time to find it right? But then how did Locke get back to the world? He moved it again and it leaped again?
To summarize, my basic problem with it moving in time rather than space is if that's the case, why doesn't Widmore have a boat in that locale all the time just waiting for it to reappear? And also how does that explain the Nigerian drug plane being on the Island?
Also, notice how there's a major displacement of water once the island leaves - there is an obvious gap left which the ocean fills up. Could the reappearance of the island - and the resulting massive water displacement - in the future have caused the Pacific tsunamis in 2006?
2Costa said: 2 Costa said: i think a big key to the locke thing in the coffin, is if locke is destined to be jacob, he needed to die off the island, like christain, and then his body needed to be brought to the island.
imo next season the present will be ben sayid jack and locke body trying to get back to the island, and many of the flashbacks will happen in the two years locke was the leader on the island and everything went bad, to me it was likce ben saying richard you want locke so bad here he is as your leader, then when ben come back like told u so guys. im back to lead, ben is putin locke is medeved
I do like the parallelism that 815 crashed with live Locke and dead Christian and Christian seems to be speaking for the Island now and it looks like we'll be getting Island returnees plus Locke's body going back to the Island. I wonder who that will put in Locke's place. Will Jack finally become a man of faith? Will Aaron be the new Locke?
And that leads to my big question -- who has to go back? Ben and the O6? What about Walt? What about Desmond? And who is telling Ben that they all need to go? My guess is that Ben needs only 1 of them and he's not sure which one yet, so he'll take them all to be on the safe side. It will also give him expendable people. I wonder in fact if Ben is setting himself up to supplant Richard -- the ageless selector of the new Island leader.
Ross, I like the tsunami idea, but I think the dates don't add up. Like time is supposed to add up on this show. :-)
To touch on maven's comments about the Nigerian plane, I've always liked the idea that Charles Widmore was actually Magnus Hanso and for whatever reason he left the island and has been trying to get back all this time, and buying up all his old stuff was part of his way to retrace his steps from over 100 years ago.
Magnus Hanso or not, what if Widmore used to be an Other and, for whatever reason, he turned the FDW moving the Island away from African waters? With a plane full of Heroin and notorious drug dealers on board, that plane WILL be tracked by the military and once it's crashed (or shot down), it's easy pickings for troops/police to get onto the Island and retrieve everything.
That's going to be enough to send technophobic Jacob into a frenzy and order the move of the Island.
One of the most baffling things to me is beardy Jack's insistence to gorgeous Kate that "they weren't supposed to leave." I'd say that Jack's appendicitis and the recovery period from it was intended to keep Jack on the Island, but then, the Island didn't know Jack.
Further I think Ben's permitted people, Kate, Sayid, Jack, Sawyer to go to the freighter knowing that the freighter was going to be destroyed which he fortuitously discovers when he kills Keamy. He doesn't want anyone he can't control off the Island. At the end of S3, Ben told Alex he could not let the 815ers just leave.
But that leaves the big question -- what makes Jack think they weren't supposed to leave. What were those 6 going to bring to the table on Island to change things? Hard to say. Sun presumably would have died because of her pregnancy. And why was it okay that Walt and Michael could leave? Because Ben could control them through Room 23 and because of Mike's crime?
Sorry that's sort of a ramble, but maybe it will spark some discussion.
memphish:
I like the tsunami idea, but I think the dates don't add up
It was just a thought that popped into my head as a nice little link into the real world, but to be entirely honest the dates could be spot-on for all we know at this stage simply because we don't know when/where the Island has ended up.
We know Ben jumped into October 2005 but the fact he's in Tunisia shows that his jump was a totally different one to the Island's.
Am I turning into a crazy poster now? I've been quiet since TLE and now I'm going ape!
I like those ideas Ross. It's my contention that the Island moves in space, not just time.
But here's another idea, what if turning the donkey wheel creates a wormhole not just on the Island, but at all the vile vortices so that matter is transferred between locations when that happens so Black Rock is sucked onto the Island; polar bear lands in Tunisia; Nigerian drug plane flying over Tunisia gets sucked to Island.
Sorry if this is nuts, but I'm not very up on the mechanics of time travel.
And here's one final question in that vein. If the frozen donkey wheel is not part of the Orchid station, but under it and inaccessible why does Halliwax have a parka at all?
memphish:
what makes Jack think they weren't supposed to leave
Presumably Locke told him and the others everything when he met up with them all off-Island.
But I do agree, exactly what do the O6 have that could've benefitted the island and can now right the wrongs 3 years later?
Ross - My main problem with Widmore, or any one else, moving the island with the wheel is that Ben had to blow a hole in the wall to get to it, so unless Widmore moved it before the DI got involved wouldn't he have to have done the same ?
lol looks like it's me and you Memphish for now!
Out of interest, where has the vortex idea come from? I do like the idea that there's a fixed number of points that can be interconnected using a wormhole generator, but to be honest it's getting awfully Stargate already with advanced technology left over from an ancient civilisation without adding workhole-linked gates to the mix!
I see your point about Halliwax's Parka. Certainly I still believe that DI have built their technology based on the properties of the Island that they can feel and measure, but that's not to say that while building everything they've not had archeological teams unearth the ancient Machine.
Certainly with 3 different candle-related names for one scientist, DI are really cagey about information even to their own scientists!
I think the question we have to ask ourselves, is are the O6 going to be the key to a course correction that will ultimately change the outcome of what happens on the island.
Memphish - I like the idea that moving the island causes random things to get sucked into the time vortex with it and appear on the island. We could end up with the Statue of Liberties head on an island beach :-)
My vote is for Sawyer to find the head while riding Kates horse !
zort: it wasn't really a genuine idea of mine, more a fleeting "that could be kinda cool".
The tunnel behind the Orchid chamber looks man-made, presumably from a DI archeological team, and the cave looks excavated in some way, revealing just the FDW. it is entirely possible that the quickest way down to the Machine is via the old archeological tunnel so in this moment of panic Ben just blew the Orchid chamber open to get to it. Who's to say there wasn't another way down (the ancients must've had a way down there) that just caved in with the massive tremors a time-shifting Island would generate?
That's not to say I'm going with the "Widmore moved the Island previously" idea because that means he must've done it within the past couple of years in order for Eko's plane to have crashed there and there's no way any of this would make sense if Widmore has only been off-island recently.
Unless Widmore's temporal displacement hurled him backwards a LONG time...
Nah, I'd prefer Widmore to be Magnus Hanso!
Here's what Lostpedia has on vile vortices. I love the idea of Sawyer on Kate's horse. Take that in any way you like. And again I do NOT want a Sawyer/Juliet ship. Despite her ability to down Dharma rum, I still don't like Juliet.
good morning guys!
I love Sawyer/Juliet idea! I'd like it if finally Kate would stop playing Jack and Sawyer against each other. I know she doesn't do it unpurpose, but she knows. Women know!
I love the Doc Brown analogy, it really cleared things up for me.
let's get back to figuring out what happened that was so bad in the two years that they have been gone.
I haven't been over to lostpedia, but has anyone put together a time line thus far, maybe to include TLE? Might be a good little project for all of us.
Any news on Octagon Recruiting?
Morning James
I'm not sure I like the Sawyer Juliet thing. They would be constantly trying to out con each other.
the out "coning" might make for some mighty intense times, I just feel like they have down played juliet since the begining of the season. Just a feeling!
On a personal note, Juliet has momments of where I absolutely hate her, on that same note, during there's no place like home pt 2 and 3. She was incredibly gorgeous.
Ross: Thanks for straightening out my thinking on the moving of the island in terms I can understand: A movie ("Back to the Future")! LOL
I think even though Keamy and his team were eliminated, Widmore is still a treat to the island and that's why Ben felt compelled to take the drastic step with the FDW.
Ben pooh-poohed the DI experiments as "silly". I'm assuming Richard is the one who knows the real secret to the island regarding the power of the FDW. Yes, there might be another entrance to the underground chamber, but why did Ben have to blow open the hole...that took time and effort? So, therefore, the DI might not have known about the FDW chamber and just built right over it, but using some of its properties to do the Casimir Effect experiments with Bunny #15. They might have known how to move objects/people, but not the whole island.
I, too, wonder why the O6 are so important to the island. Jack does have ties with Christian and Aaron. Hurley has "seen" Jacob. We know Sayid's purpose for Ben, but why is he important for the island. And Kate doesn't seem imporant to it at all except to care for Aaron. Maybe Sun's relationship with Widmore through Paik has something to do with it.
Good day all,
Have i missed the recaps from the finale. the only one i have seen so far is Jensen.
Its funny at times i think that the reason that the O6 are important to the island is that they are all related/decendents of members of the DI. And ultimately they have to correct something. I think all of these charachters are chosen for a reason and have been targeted from birth. kinda of the kids paying for the sins of the parents. Adam & Eve
I have nothing to back up anything i just said, just a recurring thought that comes back from time to time.
Check this out.
Fishbiscuit has her recap up. I haven't read it yet (or any other recap/reviews either for that matter), but it's there for YOUR reading pleasure.
memphish, thanks as always for the recaps. i say everytime i need to add them to the favorites.
And i just laughed out loud like i was a child being tickled at the misplaced video.....
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU...
memphish, that was hysterical my friend, I can only imagine that's what we would, i think it actually has happened once.
i think the orchid second floor was made by dharma, but i think the donkey wheel is more primative, it was either the ancients that made the four toed statue, or possibly the black rock people.
Here's an idea i picked up from someone else's theory, What if someone trained the smart polar bear to turn the donkey wheel, so that noone had to be banished if they needed to move the island, back in the dharma days when they weren't working for Jacob and following prophesy, but following science and they had caged polar bears on tap. It they could work the fish biscuit machine they can turn a wheel, That would perfectly explain the polar bear in tunesia, it turned the wheel to moved the island and was teleported/banished to tunesia???thoughts
2Costa - I like that theory, Donkey Wheels being operated by Polar Bears
it does explain the Polar Bears in Tunesia! I like it!
I'm just getting around to looking at blogger reactions and recaps. Here's an interesting idea from Gitsie Girl:
15. I love that Hurley is seeing all sorts of dead people now. Does he have a gift like Miles and just chalks it up to being crazy?
And speaking of Miles, how is it that he can read live people too? Can he just read minds generally or does it have to do with dead people? Maybe mind reading explains his sour disposition if he can hear what people really think instead of the facades we put on (especially here in the South, bless his heart.)
Lost nominated for 2 Television Critics Assoc. awards.
Do we think that the obituary from last year is just dead wrong or did Locke adopt Walt?
I wonder when the donkey wheel is turned does the person or polor bear exiled always go into the future? Is it random?
memphish i would think fake since i dont think Grandma was going to give up Big Walt for anyone. Unless she died
they said the obit wasn't canon
the dude that plays mikhail/patchy is gonna be on burn notice this season, now that is sweet casting
memphish:
I'm assuming Richard is the one who knows the real secret to the island regarding the power of the FDW. Yes, there might be another entrance to the underground chamber, but why did Ben have to blow open the hole...that took time and effort? So, therefore, the DI might not have known about the FDW chamber and just built right over it, but using some of its properties to do the Casimir Effect experiments with Bunny #15. They might have known how to move objects/people, but not the whole island.
This was my original point about the Orchid and DI - they've built their own technology based on the properties of the island (which are either harnessed by or actually generated by the Machine) and are slowly achieving the same things as the ancients, one time-travelling bunny at a time.
I added the reverse-engineering and archeological bits in response to why Halliwax would have a darka (I love that lol thanks Doc Jensen!) if he/DI didn't know about the Machine. Juding by the way the tunnel behind the Orchid looks so smooth, almost man-made, I wouldn't be surprised if DI sent in some archeologist after inital sureys of the island revealed the Four-toed Statue, ruins, temple and possible an entrance to the Machine cave.
Of course there's no need to tell average Joe Dharma that there's a hoofing great ancient/alien machine in the basement.
As to Ben spending time blowing a hole in the Orchid chamber, I'd say that was a lot faster (5 minutes tops) than trekking down a more traditional route that may or may not exist or has collapsed with previous tremors. Speed is of the essence with Keamy and the boys on their way and just blowing a hole in the wall is so much quicker.
But yes I would agree that Alpert and the Others will know much more about the Machine than DI.
Ross, I really like and agree with what you are thinking about the Orchid, the island's properties, the DI, and Jacob. And hey! Where or how are you watching the Mysterious Cites of Gold??!! Are youe talking about the one with Esteban and his friends? I loved that show, it used to be on Nickalodeon in the 90s, and I can't find it on tape in english. :-(
LOL Zort, about parking your earth!
I think that we'll have to just wait and see how TPTB gloss over all the details that we are wondering about, to tell their particular brand of story physics. :-D
You know Memphish, I was thinking that too about how Ben might have let the Losties go to the freighter -- sure, why not! -- knowing somehow that they would get killed.
Good idea also about the exchange of matter between the vortices (my favorite thing!) because matter/energy can't be destroyed and exists forever, so maybe to move something with the FDW, there has to be an even exchange of matter-for-matter. That could also be why they all have to go back to the island together, because they can't go alone without the entities/matter that were there when they were there. If that makes any sense. :-B
I like the idea of Ben taking a shortcut to the FDW by blowing out the chamber too.
P.S. to Ross...."Aaaaaaaaaaaaah, some day we will find, the Cities of Goooooooooold!" :-D
capcom:
I'm watching Mysterious Cities of Gold from the comfort of my 3-month old special edition ENGLISH REGION 2 DVD boxset.
Yes, that's right, the REGION 2 ENGLISH boxset that people said would never ever happen.
http://hmv.com/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?ctx=280;-1;-1;-1&sku=749518
I'm already calling the FDW the Machine, be warned I could well call it the Great Legacy lol
Although I doubt LOST fill feature a solar-powered plane made from solid gold...damn I'm making comparisons between characters now!
Nope, not saying Sawyer is Mendoza...
The Daily Show's newest correspondent talks politics -- and LOST.
Hi all... two random things have me wondering...
1. Significance of the image shown in the promo ads with the reflection in the water of the island being a city.
2. The markings on the pillar in the donkey wheel area that look like hieroglyphics.
Did you guy already come up with theroies about these?
ps..i am looking forward to the next Octagon ARG. I still have the Apollo bar I'm holding in my picture!
Polar Bears on a tropical island..there are SO many reasons why thats amazing....
memphish shares another classic.
Awesome Ross. :-D I just looked it up on Wiki and it seems as if a US DVD version is planned, but not announced yet. I can only dream. And now I will start comparing things on Lost to that as well. :-) Maybe TPTB watched Nickalodeon in the 80s/90s?
Joann, now that you mention it, it's very much like the Mystery Tales comic book cover too, with the island/city over a city.
http://dictionary.sensagent.com/Jeremy%20Bentham/en-en/
Good Morning ALL!
Any news on Octagon Recruiting?
Just wondering!
Hope everyone is having a great day!
capcom:
I'm not sure how much of a cult following MCoG had in the US, but over here it was huge and the company who's produced it has really gone to town on some of the extras just for us fans (if any of you Brits remember the Phillip Schofield singalong in the Broom Cupboard it's in the extras!!!)
bigdog:
Nothing mysterious about it though - DHARMA brought the bears to the Island for experiments in reclimatisation. This was also confirmed by TPTB a while back.
DHARMA Polar bears in Tunisia is more amazing...
joann:
The city reflection could be nothing, it could be anything. As a designer, I interpret it as two sides of the same story - with our characters equally LOST in both environments.
The hieroglyphics are obviously the writings of the ancient civilisation that created the Machine (more weight to the Atlantean/Lemurian origins of the island as Atlantis/Mu has been long considered the ancestors to the Egyptians). What was in Ben's house, the Machine, even DHARMA's influences with the Swan station all point to this civilisation that settled on the island in the distant past.
james:
You're not going to get anything on Octagon Recruiting until their San Diego dates.
Patience, dear heart!
Morning all! Yeah, I don't think anything's going to happen with Octagon until right before Comic Con. Patience! LOL
Has anyone tried to decipher the hieroglyphics near the FDW Machine? Didn't TPTB once tell us that the hieroglyphics on the countdown clock meant underworld?!?! Now we know what is was referring to...the frozen innards of the island!!! Are they the same symbols?
Ross: Good interpretation of the LOST reflection logo! Wherever our Losties go, they seem to have a problem fitting in.
Also: FYI - LOST finished #1 in the latest Nielson's!
Ross that was a line from the daily show link that Memphish put up this morning. Although Polar bears in Tunisia is definately amazing.
this was from Luhks review.
When the island appeared to move, the situation would be analogous to the following one: Suppose darkufo.blogspot.com suddenly changed its web address to shirtless-sawyer.blogspot.com, without notifying anyone. The content on the website did not change at all, but anyone typing in the old URL or clicking on the old links would be unable to find it. To make matters worse, no one has any information to help find the new address other than searching randomly. Anyone hoping to get their daily fix of Lost content would wind up lost in the middle of cyberspace. The people on the helicopter, trying to reach the island through that obsolete pathway in the South Pacific, encountered the parallel situation. From their perspective, the island disappeared, and left them floating over the sea without anywhere to land.
That along with the Back to the future reference have been the easiest explanation for me with the time travel. alot of you have a great understanding of the actual science but for me I am Sawyer reading time travel for dummies.
I like that analogy by Luhks, but I don't think it works 100% because people and Islands and polar bears and coconut trees and cans of peanuts are real unlike the 1s and 0s that make up this and DarkUFO's website. I can change the address of my house, but if you go to the physical location of my house regardless of what it's named, it will still be there.
capcom:
Where did I hear that MCoG was one of J.J. Abrahms favourite shows when he was younger?
There's no parallels you can draw between that and LOST, but you can definitely see an influence - the advanced technology of the lost civilisation of Hiva (based on Atlantis/Mu) is stumbled upon by accident and it and the benefits it can offer become something to compete (almost war) over, with our heroes caught in the crossfire, yet ultimately are the deciding factor.
I agree Memphish, at least to me, it's virtual vs real, and it's not the same.
Did JJ say that Ross? Wow. Heheh. Well, I know that there is a following of fans in the US and fan websises, but obviously not a big as in the UK, since you guys got the english DVD first! :-p I think that there are a lot of similarities though, like the gold box engine in the golden plane or the ship, I can't remember which. It's been too long! Also the bad guys are after/following Mendoza and the kids to find the city of gold. Adn, the fact that Mendoza's intentions are hard to peg as for or against the welfare of Esteban.
I am so confused about this time travel. Everyone keeps saying the island went 200 or whatever days ahead in time. When Jack or John or anyone catches up with it, then it will be visible again. How can you ever catch up with it? Obviously time passes on the island as well, so you are always going to remain the same time away from it. The only solution to that would be time passing 100% slower on the island and then it will only vanish a second or something. The time the plane crashed and the time the 06 were "found" coincide so the island must be on the same time passing as the world. Ohhhh, this is to hard. I just think of one thing and then another, none of which I understand, not being of a scientific mind, nor mathmatician.
Hey All,
I went to lunch and thought about doing something is there away we can put together a timeline together. I mean we have the estimated dates. You know
Month-day-yr - Flight 815 crashes
etc
that might help us a little bit in deciphering when and what happened and give us a little contiunity. Because although I've never missed an episode (and if I have I watched on ABC.com the next day) but all these episodes are running together in my mind.
Also on another note, I think I'm going to watch the Sayid centric episode again, I feel like that one will reveal a lot of things now knowing where we are and where we are going, well sort of...
thoughts?
Ular, just do like me...I'm not going to try to pinpoint anything about where the island went, or how it got there, until TPTB tell us what/how/why/when it happened. Voila, no confusion! :-D
James, there is a prety comprehensive timeline section on Lostpedia to help:
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Timeline
P.S. Ular...but that doesn't mean that I won't venture to guess the how/what/why/when of how TPTB made it look onscreen. I'm just not going to try to peg it all down to anything specific.
sorry capcom, I guess the island is just talking to me trying to help me find my way, perhaps I should do a walkabout? or maybe find a sweat lodge to let it all become clear
I really must say I love how you guys accepted me, I'm a rookie but LOVE Lost and until it returns a part of me is missing.
No prob James!! That's what TLC is for, a million heads are better than one! And I always forget to look things up on Lostpedia before I ask about it. Sometimes I'd much rather get the TLC view/slant on things first anyway. :-D
Glad that you're here, the more the merrier! Especially during the haituses.
so what is Charlotte's deal?
What if Charlotte by virtue of her birth on Island is the one who displaces Locke?
ular97:
Read a bit further up to see Back To The Future example to explain the time travel bit.
It's important that you understand that the Island is simply taking a shortcut to get to a different point on the SAME timeline as the rest of us, so when we all get to the same point in time that the Island skipped to, we'll all see it again.
Look at it this way: at 12 noon the Island skips ahead to 8pm. I will have to wait 8 hours until I also get to 8pm. Once I get to 8pm however, the Island and I exist at the same point in time again so I'll see it, touch it, etc.
Don't be confused thinking that the Island is just invisible until you catch up with it. For the period of time it's skipped over the Island does not exist. This is why there's no Delorean in Back To The Future, and you can see the ocean fill the empty space where the Island was.
capcom:
Don't quote me on JJ liking MCoG I honestly don't know where I heard that and I'm having trouble finding it again lol
my other question is TPTB said we would find out what the heck happened to all the children of Flight 815, I saw no children in this episode
I don't understand why Daniel is so freaked about the idea of Ben and Keamy going to the Orchid when all Dharma managed to do with it is move a bunny less than a second in time. The real deal is under the Orchid and seems to predate it. Does this prove that Daniel is re-living this time? Was he trying to get Charlotte to leave this time when she hadn't in the past or vice versa kind of like Alex and her death?
That "Daily Show" clip was hilarious! Hillary Widmore! LOL
Ular97: I'm so with you in the confusion about the island moving in time and/or space and why can't anyone see it if it only moves in time! I'm so scientifically-challenged!
I think i was just spoiled while my wife was watching E news from Kristen. What is the policy on hearing about actors plans?
Don't discuss them Bigdog. If they come up at ComicCon they may become fair game, but otherwise, no. I spoiled myself with a couple of Kristin items too, but I'm hoping that in 8 months I'll forget them.
RE: The Black Rock - So the island can move locations and presumably time periods, so what if during these shifts it popped up from the sea beneath the sailing slave ship?
Me too. I just screamed at the TV saying why would you say that.
I need to go to the orchid and go back in time about 20 minutes
Bigdog: I saw that item, too! Dang it!
2costa, I was thinking along the lines of a polar bear turning the wheel and ending up in Tunisia, too.
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