Friday, February 01, 2008

The Beginning of the End - Season 4, Episode 1 (Post 2)


WOW! We hit 400 comments quick! So many great insights and so much more to discuss. Consider this your friendly, neighborhood "lag alleviation" post. Don't forget to read up on the comments from the last post...

233 comments:

1 – 200 of 233   Newer›   Newest»
scoutpost said...

First!!! Been a long time. Got nothin new to say.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

That's a great freeze-frame!

2costa said...

thats why his prediction wont come true about every living person being killed because the tweaks that have taken place have already changed the timeline that ben was working from and that because desmond had the failsafe key because kelvin was very improtant prolly working with hawking ansd i used to think hawking was goo but i think she is working with the bad ones and ben is the lesser of two evils. When kikhail killed one of TLG girls he said he was follwing orders but not bens the original recruiters that are probably the common boss of the frieghter people, that why he waited for xcharlie to unlocke the signal before he flodded the hatch, totally opposite of what ben wanted, it also explains why ben always seemed pissed that mikhail kept coming back, and if youll recall mikhail saved naomi's life out of nowhere has to be more than a coincidence. I think that somewhere along the lines ben made a pact with widmore or mittlewerk and that is how they got recruits like mikhail and thats why they called mikhail a lyalist, loyalist to what or who certainly not ben. Ben sent him to make sure charlie was taken care of not the looking glass girls

Melissa_Lossa said...

Whew! Good afternoon, everyone. Taken me all morning to catch up!


A couple of fly by theories :

1) The eye in Jacob's cabin - Mr. Mel did some fancy photoshopping, and he's convinced that the eye is Jack. I have to admit, it does look a bit like Jack from TTLG, in all his bearded glory.

2) The Oceanic 6: I'm guessing that at least Sun, if not Sun and Jin, are among the six. Sun is the one person that we know for sure must get off the island or die, and I think that everyone would have made sure that happened.

3) Hurley: I think that Hurley ends up among the six by accident. Either he is in a life or death situation where he must be taken with them or he'll die, or he is captured and taken unwillingly. He apologizes to Jack in the hospital for going with Locke - which leads me to believe that was the last decision he made.

4) Michael: I think Michael is the person in the coffin. He is not counted among the Oceanic 6, because he and Walt quietly assumed new identities. Ben was right - Michael would never tell anyone about the island, because then someone might find out what he did to leave. Maybe if Jack is so desperate to go back, he may have tracked Michael down to get some info.

2costa said...

someone made a good point about the chppoer not landing as well, just because they can find then doesnt mean the island eltcromagnativity isnt still blocking ship, which brings me back to the submarine again, i feel this may be how the oceanic 6 get off the island

2costa said...

why else would they bring up the sub again and locke didnt say anything he made it seem even weirder

2costa said...

to add to the jack thing he was clean shaven before the island had the miami vice stubble on the island and the beard post island. It would be crazy if jack is jacob as one of the audio things said before played backwards

2costa said...

ive been saying for 9 months that the only people comeing to the island besides penny are responding to the 77 that locke pushed at the flame , it makes sense that mikhail, the loyalist, was the one with access to the chess computer that could purge the hostiles if needed...AS i said before ben isnt loyal to the others or dharma hes loyal to the island...i used to think that ben was the master manipilater at the top but now i think he is on a lot of stuff but there someone higher up even manipulating him.

acewebguy said...

(1) How come Jack is not really that surprised that Hurley is being chased by the cops in the beginning?

This must mean that Hurley has already been showing signs of mental instability to Jack already.

(2) Someone said "there is a traitor here" (I think it was locke) when everyone met up by the plane wreckage. The camera seemed to pan to Juliet. Any thoughts on that?

acewebguy said...

Also, remember Jack seemed happy with his life at first, so he was fine with his decision to leave the island and be one of the "O6".

That seems to be out of character for him. I think he left willingly thinking everyone was safe (the only way he would leave the island and be happy). Then something (unknown to us) happened that made him regret that decision.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

acewebguy: That was said by Locke, but he was referring to last season, when he tried to help Sawyer reveal Juliet's real purpose (by way of the tape recorder). Nothing new there. Locke's just trying to highlight his many socially-redeeming acts.

ular97 said...

Phewwww...does anyone else feel exhausted after reading one of Costa's post's? lol I have read, read and read, seems to me everything is just going around and around in circles over the same two or three theories?

maven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
maven said...

2Costa: I think your posts are hard to read because you've got to work on your punctuation and capitalization! LOL You've got a lot of great ideas and theories and contributions to make, but sometimes it's hard to get through them. Just a kind criticism...I'm trying to be nice!

2/01/2008 10:48:00 AM

maven said...

Acewebguy: Right. Jack seemed to know right away it was Hurley. Maybe because that Camaro was so distinctive, he knew it was Hurley's? I'm sure Hurley's dad worked as a homage to Hugo, and Hurley must have proudly showed it off to Jack (and the other O6). Also, perhaps, he knew what Hurley was going through, since he is beginning to feel that way, too. Although he doesn't want to admit it...after all, he's only pouring a little vodka into his oj! He doesn't seem too surprised.

tallone said...

mittelwork is back..can't get his image from hanso site(the letter)...the 6 know it...lied about it got paid off...someone wants to keep them under lock and key..the guy in the suit who came to see Hurley...also going back to rachel blake's site there is medical ship...is this ship now heading to the island?

tallone said...

they feel guilty...they left

memphish said...

Well my thought on Jack knowing that was Hurley is that you'd think once they were back they'd get together, know a lot about each other, etc. because heck they're the only people they've known for 100 days or so. It's kind of a hangover friendship thing. Hurley's car would have been very special to him, so I think he'd have shown it to Jack.

Also, there was something in the way Jack reacted to it that made me think this wasn't the first "incident" involving one of the Oceanic 6. It had a sort of "here we go again" quality to it.

Thanks for the new post David!

Fun Box Boards said...

"Cherish said...
OK.. any connection between cloverfield and lost???"

The only connection I know of is that J.J. Abrams created both Lost and Cloverfield along with his production team, "Bad Robot".
In one interview, he had stated that Lost references in the movie Cloverfield were purely put in for fun with no interconnection whatsoever.

P.S. I still wanna know where is Walt

Mazzy

Twinkle said...

Can we have the link to the spoiler guidelines again please?

Anything airing with Lost is considered open for discussion but anything from any other source is off limits?

Thanks!

Twinkle said...

Yay! Somebody else thinks it's Jack's eye too!

scoutpost said...

I agree memphish- I think that the guilt of the 6 is starting to affect their behavior and that this probably wasn't the first time. That's why I think the person in the coffin is either a 6'er or maybe Michael- someone who was connected with the island and got off.

memphish said...

Dang Blogger. Lost fanatics overwhelming it I guess. Let me try again.

Mazzy, I think they missed their opportunity to put in Cloverfield when Hurley said "slushie" instead of "Slusho." And where is Walt? And how old is he?

memphish said...

USA Today is reporting LOST had 16.1 million viewers last night. 11.6 hung on for Eli Stone. No word or not if that went down to 2 million once the Oceanic ad ran.

FYSB said...

Would the reason that compels Jack to leave be the same thing that is compelling to Kate or Hurley? Hurley is such a pure soul compared to those two. Seems to me that Hurley must have had a pretty altruistic reason to leave the island, he always wanted to help, he was so bummed when Ms. Clue sent him back "what about my friends?"...he was so proud of himself when he busted in with the van and called Jack on the walkie talkie "Dude, I saved them! I saved them all!"

He must have thought he was doing the right thing to leave, either because he could not help those who stayed, or would have hurt them by staying or could help them more by leaving.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Spoiler rules, from here:

LET IT BE KNOWN...
Comments containing content that this community has defined as "spoiler" material is highly discouraged on this blog. Please be very sensitive and thoughtful when posting in the comments not to include or allude to information about not-yet-aired episodes that fits the following description of spoilers.

Contents of the US promo that airs immediately after an episode of Lost ARE NOT spoilers.

Contents of subsequent US promos and/or Canadian promos ARE spoilers.

Personal speculations on what might happen (based solely on past episodes) ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT spoilers.

Contents of The Official Lost Podcast that mention already-aired actors/directors/plotlines/flashbacks/etc ARE NOT spoilers.

Contents of The Official Lost Podcast that mention not-yet-aired actors/directors/plotlines/flashbacks/etc ARE spoilers.

Contents of the ABC.com, AOL, and any other "Sneak Peek" scenes (often available on YouTube) ARE spoilers.

Contents of non-ABC publications or podcasts (i.e. Kristin at eonline, Ask Ausiello at TV Guide, "Doc" Jensen at ew.com, LostCasts.com, etc) that mention not-yet-aired actors/directors/plotlines/flashback plans/etc ARE spoilers.

Contents of The Lost Experience and inferences built off that content ARE NOT spoilers.

memphish said...

Man, I'm slipping J. Wood posted a preview column yesterday. His review should be up later today.

Twinkle said...

I watched Eli Stone and liked it. He's kind of sweet.

We're assuming that the reason they left the island is because they chose to. They may have wanted to leave or not but the choice could have been someone else's.

I can't make out anything on the whispers. Kudos to those who heard a male and female voice.

Do D&C do a commentary podcast for each episode?

Twinkle said...

I'm assuming DVD extras and commentaries on past episodes and plot lines would fall under the same rules at The Official Lost Podcast?

I do read spoilers but I make sure that I don't give out any reasons based on spoilers in the theories I propose and try to make them spoiler free. I also don't comment whether or not a spoiler confirms someone else's theories. Since I've told you all that I do look at spoilers, I wanted to reassure you that I was watching your non-spoiled backs too.

memphish said...

I can not tear myself away from the computer. Grrrrr.

Twinkle, Damon told Variety that he and Carlton would not be doing any publicity for the show because of the strike. That means no OLPs with their banjos and pantlessness.

Just saw a good point elsewhere. Abaddon was not part of the rescue because Hurley didn't recognize him. So chief in my #1 questions for him is "who does he work for?" I'm pretty sure it's not Oceanic. He seems evil enough to work with Mittlework though.

Fun Box Boards said...

Moments:

Best - Jack pulling the trigger to Locke's head
Worst - Conversation between Sun, Rose and Claire
Funniest - Hurley getting slapped in the face by Charlie
Saddest - Hurley breaking the dire news about Charlie to Claire.

Twinkle said...

Boo hoo about the podcasts :-( There's a link to a 401 podcast on ABC but it's just churning and won't finish loading.

I just think it would be a cool season twist if the freighter guys get into as much trouble as the Losties on the island and they have to be rescued by someone else nefarious.

Twinkle said...

It's a podcast from Sept 21, 2007. Pre-ep 1. I don't know if there will be anything significant but I'll listen.

Erich said...

Melissa_Lossa said: "Maybe if Jack is so desperate to go back, he may have tracked Michael down to get some info."

I like that thought. I was thinking whoever was in the casket was someone who had been helping Jack locate the island, and that Jack's breakdown and contemplated suicide was the result of seeing his chances of getting back slipping away. It would make sense that it was Michael. Perhaps they thought the coordinates he used to escape could be used to return. Michael's alias could either be because he made it home ahead of everyone else, or because he wanted to escape unwanted attention...

What if Jack and Kate were close when they returned to the States, but when Jack started to lose it, and teamed up with Michael (someone Kate hated) out of desperation, she bailed. Who knows, Jaters, maybe they got together. Married, even, for the sake of the baby?

I don't remember who wrote about all of the O6 having to go back to save "them," but I'm drawing crazy comparisons with the book I'm currently reading: Stephen King's It. In that book, six grown-up childhood friends return home to stop an evil force once and for all, because of a promise they made.

Maybe it's not too far off-base. Hurley did say "It wants us to come back."

Spooky.

Melissa_Lossa said...

hey, twinkle! Feels like I haven't seen you in ages! :)

I have to admit, looking at bearded Jack, there is quite the similarity.


I'm torn on how much I think they all stay in contact. Jack must have some knowledge of Hurley off island, because he definitely recognizes that car, and he knows where to find him at the hospital.

However, when Jack and Hurley get together, they have that awkward feeling of two friends who used to be really close, but have lost touch over the years and now have nothing in common. Kind of like running into an old high school friends and realizing that your lives have gone in completely different directions.

I'm sure some of that is the pressure of whatever secret they're keeping, but some of it seems like that feeling that the only thing they have in common is that they were both on a plane.

scoutpost said...

catching up on comments, but memphish you read my mind regarding J.Wood- I was in the car on the way home thinking I would google him as soon as I got here. And I feel the same frustration regarding being unable to back away from the computer! ;)

Melissa_Lossa said...

Yeah, erich - I think that if Jack wanted to get back, he might start with the one person who made it away on his own. That of course assumes that Jack cannot go to the frieghter people for help.


I think time is again a big factor. I get the impression that Hurley's story takes place relatively soon after their rescue. He doesn't know that Jack's back at work until their visit, which makes me think that Jack is just recently back. Hurley also talks about being one of the Oceanic 6 as if everyone knows what that means. It just feels soon.

Jack's story, however, seems further away. Jack's had time to have a breakdown, develop some addictions, start flying every weekend, etc. If he's tracked down Michael, I'm sure that took awhile. Plus, last night Jack talked about signing autographs every time he went out for coffee. In TTLG, nobody seems to bother him or even recognize him (although that could be in part due to his brilliant grizzly adams disguise).

I'm curious to find out how much time passes between the events we've seen.

Twinkle said...

Nice to see you too, Melissa!

Safe podcast tidbits:

Between Damon and Carlton, one is a Jater and one is a Skater, but they won't say which is which. They have agreed on who she ends up with.

The rules of time travel and alternate timelines that Mrs. Hawking explained to Desmond are the rules that the writers abide by. In other words there aren't alternate timelines. The universe has a way of course correcting.

Oh, and they confirm, tongue in cheek, that Frogurt is the person in the coffin. LOL!

---
If you're ashamed of something, even subconciously ashamed, don't you avoid those who remind you of the shame? I like the analogy too of finding you have gone in completely different directions.

If I were trying to twist things I might have Walt want to stay on the island so Micheal does too while both Sawyer and Locke leave. Or maybe Locke dies.

As for "it" and "them" I think that's referring to the island itself and maybe the people still on it. But maybe there's a whole bunch about the four toed, temple building people and the island's creepy consciousness.

scoutpost said...

erich- I agree with you a lot about Michael, the only thing is, if he had the coordinates and Jack was trying to use them, then he wouldn't be flying Oceanic every weekend in hopes that it would crash. If he were using Michael's coordinates, then couldn't he just try to boat there?

Twinkle said...

that should read "bunch to find out"

Carol Dunstan said...

urgh... I'm not sure I'm gonna be able to keep up with this over the coming weeks... 400+ comments in the first thread!

hello penuel ;) I used to post on TLEC as lavenda

anyway, I'm catching up over breakfast and will comment more then. Twinkle, thanks for the links to eye pics!

Twinkle said...

Oh! Lavenda! I remeber you! Have fun!

Erich said...

Scoutpost: I agree about the coordinates. My only thought was that Jack would see Michael's coordinates as a starting point. We at least know from TTLG that Jack was actively trying to find the island (with charts 'n' maps 'n' stuff).

I still like the idea of Michael and Walt having been picked up by the freighter and being part of the O6. Maybe Walt was able to project to Locke because he wasn't that far away (like 80 miles offshore).

maven said...

Welcome over here, Carol!

DocArtz has an interesting post about the use of H and O in last night's episode. HO is for holmium, which is a chemical substance having to do with magnetic moments. We saw Hurley with Ho-Ho's in the 7/11, the symbol for HO in Santa Rosa, and Jack and Hurley getting to HO in the game Horse.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Just because Jack found Michael doesn't mean that Michael told him anything, either. We know from the newspaper that the person in the coffin most likely committed suicide. Maybe Jack found Michael, and Michael killed himself to keep from having to talk to Jack.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Okay, here's a kooky idea that I came up with this morning, that I forgot about until now. :)

Someone asked whether Desmond's vision of Claire getting into a helicopter would come true now. (whoever that was, I'm sorry, but I can't scroll through 400 comments to give you credit - so sorry!)

I think no - here's why:

In Desmond's vision, Charlie swims down to the station, he stops the jamming, the light goes off, and then Charlie drowns. Claire is then taken off the island by helicopter.

While this is essentailly what happens, there is one major difference - Desmond never mentions Charlie having a chat with Penny before he dies. Claire getting into that helicopter depends on Claire not hearing the message "not Penny's boat." Because of this crucial difference, I think that Desmond's vision has changed.

What does this mean? I don't know. Have Charlie and Penny saved all but six people from some horrible fate? If so, how? How did Penny manage to be broadcasting to the island at the exact second that Charlie turned off the jamming? And why didn't Desmond see this crucial interaction in his vision?

maven said...

Melissa_lossa: Good thinking. Things have changed from Desmond's vision. However, remember, he did say he doesn't get all the puzzle pieces, so maybe he never got the "Not Penny's Boat" warning piece.

Also, we've seen two helicopters so far that did not land on the island. Naomi's crashed, and Faraday's looked like it was having problems and he jumped onto the island. I wonder if one will actually be able to land.

FYSB said...

Interesting melissa_lossa. It may have changed the circumstances, but did it change them enough to avoid a course correction? ie, if Claire is supposed to get off the island (though not necessarily back home i suppose) will that ultimately happen due to Mrs. Hawking's rules of the universe?

Passafist said...

Hey Everybody,

Steve and I are going into the studio tomorrow to record a show! We'd like the Community to play a part so leave us a message @ 206-202-3512! If you wanna!

WORD UP!

Twinkle said...

I see what you're thinking. On the other hand, everything that happened in Desmond's vision has happened. There were just parts left out in his vision. Per the comments from Darlton about the rules of the timeline, if Desmond sees it happen I think it's going to happen.

Twinkle said...

Of course unless he intervenes to prevent it. Then the universe would course correct to make something similar happen anyway.

ChainSolo said...

Michal wouldentav killed himself because walts there 0-o michal doesnt seem like the type of person. What im still wondering is how Walt is special :S im still "lost" with that (lol)
also everytime i hear them say lost on the show i laff =]

Twinkle said...

You know, it just occurred to me that the freighter could be 100% Other owned and operated and the whole thing could be a total ruse. If so, they've done a good acting job.

jpershing said...

random theory: i know that hurley is supposed to be crazy, but what if he isn't. He was all for going back to the mental hospital, which conflicts with what locke said to jack in season 1 ('crazy people don't know they're crazy'-or something to that extent). If he is sane, then seeing charlie is not due to any mental illness. I think that this is the case, and charlie is a vision/angel/something like that, who is visiting all of the O6, and telling them what they need to do. If anyone was the supernatural conscience, it would be charlie, who was well-liked by everyone and who died honorably and selflessly. Hurley tries to avoid him by playing the crazy card, jack avoids him through his addictions. As of now, kate is either in denial or hasn't encountered him yet. I came up with this theory while watching the show, and it makes some sense to me.

DiggityDirge said...

Just my opinion, not taking shot at anyone. I think the spoiler rules are a bit much.

The ABC podcast, promos, and official LOST website should be fair game. It's not like the podcast or the site ever gives away anything terribly revealing. I think we are being a little anal here. I mean, are there that many people who don't watch the promo's and listen to the podcast because they can't know absolutely anything about the next epi?

Spoilers in my opinion would be things like future plot summary, script leaks, pictures, info, etc. Basically the stuff that DarkUFO puts in the spoiler section on his site.

said...

In TTLG, it appears as if the funeral home is in a predominantly African American neighborhood*. In this situation, it may make sense that Michael is in the coffin...

*This is simply an observation.<---My disclaimer...

Fenris said...

Woah. Okay, lot's to catch up with.

But at least I've seen it now. Now only got nearly 500 comments to read. Lol.

Just gotta say though, so glad it's back!

I was thinking. lost is like Picasso re-interpreting a William Blake painting and then it being turned into a jigsaw and we get the pieces bit by bit without a picture of what it should look like.

memphish said...

Diggity, I respectfully disagree about the promos. Think Cindy at the cages last year. How much better would Stranger in a Strange Land have been had I not known she was going to be there? Also given that it's some marketing-type putting together the promos, not TPTB, I don't trust them. Why speculate on what the marketing geniuses that made us watch unending Eli Stone commercials last night thinks will draw in viewers?

Ange said...

I've been thinking about Hurley's conversation with Ana Lucia's partner, and I'm wondering if that is maybe part of what "the secret" is. He didn't even acknowledge that he knew who she was.

Memphish mentioned in the last post that when her partner was talking to Hurley he asked if he met her in the airport or on the plane. Not on the island...assuming that they all died in the crash.

If that were what people believed then why couldn't Hurley say he knew her unless he is; 1. Totally avoiding all island discussion. 2. it's too mentally painful, or 3. Whatever deal they struck or secret they have to keep includes EVERYTHING that went on per the crash. Unless it comes from a specific plotted out series of events they are allowed to talk about while being recognized as the O6.

DiggityDirge said...

right on memphish....no worries. For me that kind of stuff doesn't make a difference, but I can see your point.

Lost 2010 said...

twinkle - Way back there you said something about Darlton and one of them being a Jater - the other a Skater. I'd be willing to bet that whoever put that clip show together was a Jater - speaking from the other side of the fence so to speak.

DeDJeZTeR said...

Oh my god... I have spent the last 12 hours in front of this damn electric box, which includes watching the episode two more times while reading...lol

I just couldn't get my mind off the show. I actually woke up last night every two hours (and gave up on sleeping after 6 hours just to see what was said by the westies) thinking about the show and even had a dream that I was having a real world conversation with Hurley about how he can keep the secret even though he is all doped up on anti-psychotics. It was very surreal as if I was one of the 6. I also talked to him (in the dream) about how he could do that to his car since his car is a red version of my first car... it was blue.

All good theories even if you read them over and over again.

Carol, I actually thought a while ago on the OC blog that you wrote very similar to Laveda... now I know why... lol

b-squared, is that a shout out to the non canon name of Locke/Hurleys box company Box-squared?..
Sorry dont know how to make the litle 2

Another thought I had while reading is that if Sun leaves the island, is there any reason to belive she will not still die, Juliet said that the problem with the preggers women starts at conception, so the damage could already be done.... Thoughts?

maven said...

Ange: In thinking about what Ana Lucia's partner said -- we can presume that the world thinks that everyone died during the plane crash except the O6. That has to be part of the cover-up...although we really don't know why yet. I think that Hurley wouldn't acknowledge that he met Ana Lucia because of all your 3 reasons, but especially not talking about EVERYTHING related to 815. It's too easy to slip up and get caught in a lie, do don't say anything. Plus, at that moment, whatever Hurley was going through with his visions of Charlie racing through his mind, he was in no mood to talk.

Lost 2010 said...

Excellent point about Sun. I'm still not sure that Juliet is telling the truth about all that. I mean, if she wanted to motivate Jack to find a way off the island and to get rid of anyone who got in the way - it certainly worked.

Twinkle said...

fenris said:
I was thinking. lost is like Picasso re-interpreting a William Blake painting and then it being turned into a jigsaw and we get the pieces bit by bit without a picture of what it should look like.

What a great description!

Ded: Yes, I think it's logical to assume Sun might lose the baby and die even if she leaves the island.

I think I'm finally tapped out. Unless there are new revelations about the whispers, and there's nothing on DarkU yet, then I need more info before speculating further. Yay! It feels like being freed! So don't ya'll go saying anything else interesting. ;-)

Twinkle said...

BTW, while perusing Dark UFO I noticed that the ABC sneak peeks for the next episode are posted under the Spoiler section. But then so is the trailer that appeared after the episode.

2costa said...

Im thinking we cant take jack saying he wasnt freinds or family of the coffin person at face value because it is part of his cover story that they didnt mingle on the plane just like hurley claimed he didnt know ana lucia

memphish said...

Ded, I feel the same about how much time I'm spent in front of this box. I did take time out enough to play some Super Mario Galaxy though.

I like that idea about Sun. It's one way to test Juliet's theory at least. Claire conceived off Island as did Danielle and they successfully delivered. Could Sun (and possibly Kate) do the same given on Island conception/off Island delivery? Man how awful would it be for them to leave the Island and Sun die anyway.

As for the Jater/Skater thing, a Jater clearly put together Kate's video over at ABC.com too. Looks like the year of Skate may be over, which frankly I think is to both Sawyer and Kate's detriment because it proves neither of them can move past their issues into a mature relationship. Also, he really lover her. I'm less sure about her. Sorry for the shipper detour.

Twinkle said...

Memphish: According to the Others Claire needed their intervention to keep the baby, right? So at least Claire wasn't successful without intervention.

I know Sawyer really did love Kate, as much as he's loved anyone since his parents died I think. He didn't think they were messing around. He thought they were a couple. If the Losties get to choose whether to stay on the island or to leave, he might just change his mind and leave to be with her.

maven said...

I just had a crazy thought:

When "Attorney" Matthew Abaddon comes to visit Hurley at Santa Rosa, he asks "Are they still alive?" Could he be asking if the rest of the Oceanic survivors are still alive on the island. Maybe some of them went into hiding on the island as part of a plan to avoid being killed by the freighter guys. Maybe the Oceanic 6 were the only ones "captured" and taken off the island...not finding the rest of the survivors. Maybe that's why Jack eventually says they've got to go back and get the people they've left behind. Are they still alive?

itgirl said...

It's been a while for me posting here. I was TLCM for the LOST Experience but I had to drop out to focus on work and chemo. I've lost my username and password so I set up a new account.

It's great to see some familiar names here though; hey Maven, Melissa_lossa, scoutpost, twinkle, dedjetzer, Memphish, fysb, and thebookpolice. I'm looking forward to some intelligent conversations and the comradary to solve the new game with Sam.

Has anyone been able to put the chart plotter's circuit board together?I've printed off the picture and made a drawing of the three circuit boxes, now I need to figure out how to complete the connection. Does anyone know of a site that's posting the how to do with the clue challenges?

It's great to back here; I'm still on chemo and there have been some close calls over the past year but God's not done with me yet. I'm no longer working now so I can focus on this new game; too bad my internet connection is sucky. Hopefully you guys can get me though the tough stuff.

Sayid'sgirl said...

itgirl
So good to hear from you. You were missed by many.

experimentalfilm! said...

maven -- that's what i initially thought .. but how would hurley know if they're still alive ? how long has it been at that point in the flashforward since they were rescued ?

experimentalfilm! said...

btw, where did we first see the name "matthew abaddon" ?

welcome back itgirl ! glad to see an old member back . we are here for youu !

Sayid'sgirl said...

Ok I think my eyes have fallen out and are rolling around on the floor but I've finally gotten through all the comments.
I think twinkle said this in the last post if not sorry to whoever did.
"The helicopter vision thing happens but the helicopter never makes it anywhere. Maybe all aboard die? Yikes!"

I thought something along those line last season. I was think just because Desmond seen Claire get on a helicopter doesn't mean she got rescued.
There's been so much said I think I'm going to have to go back and skim to be able to make a lucid comment. My husband just asked what I was doing and I said having a brain melt down. lol

Carol Dunstan said...

you know, I just thought all the ho's were a reference to Christmas coming up on the show :D

Ange said...

Hi itgirl!

Dennis posted a little something about the game here a month back. Help is on the way. ..just follow the links!

You might just want to look at the weekly recaps over on the right if you don't want to get spoiled, as the game is actually already done. It started 5 weeks ago and ended yesterday. It looks like ABC is re-promoting it and beginning it fresh for the new recruits! Have a look "new recruit"!

Also, WELCOME BACK!

LOL Carol and Sayid'sGirl, I think I am still freaking out about it all from last night. I find myself literally sitting here just thinking with burning eyeballs. I need to go watch it again.

experimentalfilm! said...

i ghetto taped the episode with iMovie . clearly a camera videotaping a tv screen, but it gets the job done .

Carol Dunstan said...

film, Matthew and Abaddon were two passwords for clues in the find815 stuff (I think even for the same clue).

You know, I have one "out there" theory come to me this morning... Jacob and Smokey are one and the same. Smokey takes on an appearance and all that information is stored somewhere... maybe inside the shack it can re-appear as anyone it has previously appeared as. So maybe Jacob is someone that was known to someone else on the island and died. Whether he appears as Jacob more than anyone else or that's the only time he summons people, I dunno... but I can't think of a way for Hurley to happen upon an hallucination of Christian when (as far as we know) he's never seen him before. Mind you, I can't see how the ash circle plays into it. It's not a theory I hold a lot of faith in, but thought I'd throw it out there.

As for the lantern, maybe Jacob just got another one out of the cupboard... if he was going to rewind time to fix the lantern the window should have been fixed too shouldn't it?

Sayid'sgirl said...

I don't know who or what Jacob is. I'd like to see that explained by "science". But I think it was Jacobs eye in the window. Can't figure out why Christian is in Jacob's cabin. Since Locke was in the area my thought is he had gone to Jacob for some guidance. It is however weird that Hurley found the cabin. As if he was guided there. Maybe Jacob tought Locke how to summon someone if he needed them.

Sayid'sgirl said...

Oh my gosh. tought should be taught.

Twinkle said...

TLCM! Glad to hear you made it though chemo!

Here's another one, Carol/Lavenda. :-D Smokey, Jacob, and the island are all the same thing...approximately. And who was the temple built to worship? Any of that would be hard to explain with "near science."

DeDJeZTeR said...

Carol, I believe that theory of jacob=smokey has been shopped around a bit.

About the lantern, I thought the same thing, when Jacob freaks out at Locke it was clearly knocked over and broken, but when Ben exits moments later he hangs it up and it is completely intact. I am guessing that it never really broke. Maybe just some fuel spilled out and the sound effect people added the smashing glass sound. The window was defintely broken though. is it just me or did Jacob clean up his place a little? It seemed much less crazy hermit to me in last nights episode.

Ben said in "TMBTC" that Jacob is not a man you go to, he is a man that summons you to him, maybe he was attempting to summon Hurley.

DeDJeZTeR said...

oh and itgirl, it is nice to read you again as well. Like ants from the woodwork and such. You can also find infoon the game at

www.Oceanic-conspiracies.blogspot.com

and atDarkufo via

www.find815.blogspot.com

with all the info out there already you should be able to breeze through almost everything but the reef and rov activities with no problem. Good luck.

Sayid'sgirl said...

dedjezter
I'd forgotten Ben had said that. Maybe he summoned Hurley because he knew he would stand with Locke when he said come with me if you want to live. And being Hurley more people would follow him than Locke.

Twinkle said...

I imagine a guy like Jacob can make his cabin look any way he wants it to. :-D

So far the puny humans have been bickering among themselves and generally ignoring that there is a higher power on the island. If that higher power has a nature like a Greek god, I bet he'd start exerting a little more effort to get the respect and notice he deserved. Maybe it's the island saying, "Hellooo! Umm...I'm in charge here and you can leave when and if I say you can."

memphish said...

Itgirl! So happy to see you hear. We've all been wondering about you. Hang in there!

Sayid's Girl -- a helicopter with Claire and Baby Aaron crashing! Yikes!

I have to say one idea I've been kicking around in my brain is that the "he" Kate needs to get back to is Aaron. Not that I'd ever give my baby to Kate to take care of.

The problem with all the Kate's "he" is a kid theories is how would she ever leave the real world to go back to the Island if she has a kid, her own or someone else's. I mean how irresponsible would that be?

maven said...

OMG, itgirl (formerly TLCM)! It's so good to see you here. We had no way to get in touch with when you dropped out a while ago. I remember talking about a LOST quilt with you...I still haven't made one (granddaughter baby quilts came first)! Glad to see you here again.

Enjoy playing find 815. We all had a blast the last 5 weeks playing over at Oceanic Conspiracies. Ange, Jess and Fenris did a great job on the blog...you'll enjoy Fenris' weekly re-caps!

DeDJeZTeR said...

Memphish, maybe it is Aaron and he is the thing that finally stops her from running all the time.

Twinkle said...

Yeah, Kate agrees to take him and TCPTB (the creepy powers that be) want him monitored for Walt signs so they have the charges dropped against her.

Twinkle said...

against her dropped

A kid would definitely be a strong motivation for her not to go back to the island and why she believes so strongly that leaving was the right thing to do.

maven said...

I can't imagine Claire giving Aaron to Kate, unless Kate is the only woman in the O6.

Brendan said...

Twinkle said...

Yay! Somebody else thinks it's Jack's eye too!


It's absolutely, 100%, definitely, Jack's eye. I've always thought that, from the first moment I watched that scene.

Twinkle said...

Me too, Brendan. It was a gut reaction for me. Have you seen Dark's poll? We're definitely in the minority. My guess is TPTB are never going to tell us for sure.

takes a village said...

Way behind, just started this post.
As usual,excellent ideas,and comments you guys.
Be back tomorrow. G'nite.

Capcom said...

Itgirl/TLCM!!!! It is fantastic to here from you! We've been praying for you, as has been mentioned. Wow, great to have you back. :-D

Sayid'sgirl said...

Ok my 06 is Jack,Kate,Hurley,Sun,Jin and Claire Aaron doesn't count as a passager.
Although how do they explaing Claire giving birth if they weren't on an island? And how would they explain where they were for over 90 days if not on an island? They certainly wouldn't be floating in the ocean that long.
I have this crazy feeling that the crash isn't going to be in the ocean or the island in the flash forwards. To me it feels like the crash is completely different. Like it was something witnessed on tv. Jack heroicly "pulling people out of burning wreckage" as Kate said. In last years flash forward the guy in the pharmancy recognized Jack as a "hero", Jack said he wasn't a hero. In this flash forward he's signing autographs. What did he do that was so amazing?

Sayid'sgirl said...

When I said Aaron doesn't count as a passanger, I did mean he gets off the island with Claire.

Sigma6 said...

Hey all! Long time lurker, first time poster. I've been totally relying on you guys to stimulate my thinking, so I figured it was time for my two cents.

I'm going to throw in with the Ben-is-in-the-coffin camp (for now).

Even though (as has been mentioned), there are other people who might need an alias, I think Ben has the best reasons. First, he wasn't on the plane. Maybe J. Lantham was taken from the passenger manifest to avoid questions. Second, his name might very well be documented at some Dharma related orginization. He could be in danger from them.

Also, he seems the most likely one to help Jack get back to the island, and if Jack has decided he has to go back, he would be looking at Ben in a different light.

It would also explain why nobody was at the funeral.

Codysmom said...

OMG, what an episode!!!

I can't believe I wasn't able to use my computer last night for the season opener and all the flight815/Maxwell group happenings!!!! There is something wrong with my monitor and tv tuner/video card and I was on the phone with dell for over 5 hours right up to 9pm! The timing is the worst!! Even now, I'm using my extended desktop (old 27 inch tv) to even be able to do this, so excuse me if there are typing errors.

It took me so long to catch up with all the comments! There are a lot of great ideas floating around here!

Shoop27 said...

I'm gonna make this short and sweet.

1. Oceanic 6 are Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Sun, and Claire. Most of these are straight forward but Claire is on there because in Desmond's flash of charlie's death he sees Claire getting in a helicopter and leaving.

2.I think that Jack's daddy is Jacob. If you youtube the lost season 4 promo and stop at 1:03 it is most definatly Christian Shepard

That feels good to get off my chest.

Codysmom said...

A few thoughts I had after seeing this episode:


Most satisfying part of this ep for me was when Danielle elbowed Ben in the head (again) when he said "my daughter" (speaking of getting Alex away from there fast, near the beginning)

Most upsetting moments of the ep:

Hurley telling Claire about Charlie's death (so touching and a great acting job)

Jack shooting the gun right at Locke (I will never think of Jack the same again)

Hurley being grateful to the cop when he said he could arrange a mental institution


I think it was Christian in the chair and Jacob looking out the
window.

dedjezter said....
Is it just me or did Jacob clean up his place a little? It seemed much less crazy hermit to me in last nights episode

I'm definitely going to check this out and feel it may be important


I wonder if Desmond will have any more visions or was it just all about Charlie dying?


I want to know what occurred between the time we see Jack seemingly doing just fine when he visits Hurley at Santa Rosa and the time we see Jack as a pill-popping crazed and bearded junkei who does nothing but try to get back to the island

re: Matthew Abaddon "Are they still alive?".....I at first assumed the remaining losties, but now thinking maybe talking of Alpert and his original buddies, who to me looked like something right off the Black Rock from 1881 when we first saw Alpert last season.

I still think it's Ben in the coffin

Carol Dunstan said...

well I'm glad I'm not alone in my insanity ;)

Ange said...

Morning LoCos and happy Groundhog Day! Punxsutawney Phil has proclaimed: "As I look around me, a bright sky I see, and a shadow beside me. Six more weeks of winter it will be!"

Good thing I have 7 weeks of Lost to get me through!

I have a weird thought or question that maybe someone can help me with so I don't waste time wondering about it.

Do we know for sure (minus spoilers) that the O6 are just survivors. I have read ZERO spoilers but I know the concept of the O6. So that said, I am looking at the episode knowing there are these "6" that came off the island, have a secret, and are famous.

I mean could the 6 be the 6 survivors that after the crash ended up with telekinetic powers, the ability to heal, to see dead people, rather than just making it off in one piece?

memphish said...

Morning LoCos! Well the kid is glad for 6 more weeks of winter because we've had no snow days. Me -- I'm ready for spring.

It dawned on me last night that Hurley's vision of Charlie is different from his vision of Dave. He saw Dave when he wasn't on the medicine (clonazipan?), but he's seeing Charlie at the Hospital after eagerly taking his meds. I'm not sure what that means exactly. His guilt is even stronger, perhaps?

memphish said...

J. Wood's new post.

Exposed said...

I'm throwing some thoughts out to the experts who can tell e if I'm disproved...

What if Penny's Dad is behind the "rescue" and actually just wants to make sure Desmond never gets back to his daughter so she can finally move on?

What if she thinks the people searching for him answer to her, but her Dad actually controls them? Could this have something to do with Naomi switching channels?

And he's the only person I can think of with enough influence and money (because kate's in a nice car and all) to keep the 6 quiet back at home. With enough money you can do just about anything, right?

I'll leave it at that, and not touching the Jacob/Jack's Dad/coffin questions for now :)

Sayid'sgirl said...

capcomsaid
I think it was Christian in the chair and Jacob looking out the
window. ...I wonder if Desmond will have any more visions or was it just all about Charlie dying?

Yea! You'll the only one who agrees with me. Of course I seen the Season 4 promo when it was first shown and the screen caps at Dark's site. I knew Christian was somewhere and I thought it was Jacob's cabin. And who else when be with him other than Jacob in his cabin. But I'm not sure why Christian is there.

I was wondering that too. I think when Desmond went back into his own past he some how got intertwined with Charlie's past and changed Charlie's when he seen him performing on the side walk. Then it was up to Desmond to get Charlie's future back on track.

Sayid'sgirl said...

You'll should bo You're

Sayid'sgirl said...

ange
I haven't read any spoilers on the O6 stuff either. My guess are just from what we get from the episode.
And I really like your idea that it may be the special people that get off.
memphish
I could be wrong but didn't Hurley see Dave on and off of his meds? It was Dave that talked him into quit taking them.
I'm also thinking that Matthew Abbadon (and maybe even Charlie) are a manifestation of his guilt.

memphish said...

2 interesting things from J.Wood.

1) You scientific types (Capcom, Carol, Ange, Jess, etc.) might want to look into Oxford Physicist David Deutsch and his parallel universe work.

2) J. Wood speculates that Locke went and unmade the ash ring he and Ben crossed on their way to Jacob's cabin allowing the cabin to come to Hurley. Hmmmmm.

memphish said...

Sayid's Girl, It's unclear to me if he saw Dave on the meds too. I guess we could infer that he did.

I don't think Abaddon was a vision. He had a visitor's tag and wasn't it the nurse, not another crazy, who told Hurley about him?

Sayid'sgirl said...

I don't know who's in the coffin yet. Michael seems to obvious. I don't think it's any of the others or Desmond or Danielle. And I don't think anyone is using an alias.
I can't think of anyone who would want to commit suicide, if that is what happened to this person. Jack didn't suprise me and neither did Locke. Jack's a control freak and Locke has a tendancy to fell sorry for himself.
Maybe Jin he might be survived by a teenaged son (we don't know how long it' been) Sun may have died in child birth. But that wouldn't explain Kate's reaction about the funeral.
So still no clue.

Sayid'sgirl said...

memphish
You may be right about Abbadon. I'm just basing my guess on after Hurley goes berserk they don't actually show Abbadon leaving just the door closing. I was thinking someone else went through the door not Abbadon.

jess4ua said...

sayid's girl- I was thinking the same thing about the person in the coffin not using an alias. I know TPTB have said it is a character we have seen...but,

1. It could be someone we've seen and do not yet have a name for.

2. Maybe someone is using a nickname, or alias on the island. (like Sawyer, not that I think it is Sawyer, just using that as an example.)

FYSB said...

TLCM!!!!! Soooooooo glad to see you!!! You ARE the IT girl.

It's probably Mikhail in the coffine, that wily son of a gun could survive anything the island through at him, but he couldn't survive the LA freeways.

Capcom said...

Right FYSB, on the island Patchy is like the Black Knight in The Holy Grail and keeps on going no matter what. But off-island and specifially LA, he might die just like the rest of us. :-)

FYSB said...

through = threw

yikes, it's hard to think and type with a demanding kitten in your lap

Mikhail the Black Knight "It's only a flesh wound!"

Fun Box Boards said...

Morning Everyone!!!

Is it Thursday yet?

I watched the show... AGAIN
I took a Screen shot when Hurley was being lead off by cops after his chase. What I noticed was a stranger videotaping Hurley as he was being lead away.
The Stranger

Fun Box Boards said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fun Box Boards said...

Does that link work? If not I'll re-post the link :(

Fun Box Boards said...

Has anyone seen the trailer for the XBOX 360 Lost video game?
It looks real good
Lost Via Domus

Fun Box Boards said...

Sorry about the broken link...

Here is The Stranger

maven said...

Morning all:

Fun box boards: It's been determined that the guy filming Hurley was Randy...his old boss from Mr. Cluck's.

DeDJeZTeR said...

Twinkle said
My guess is TPTB are never going to tell us for sure.

You know I don't think so. I figured they would treat Jacob like they did the four toed statue, but they didn't, so i think we are going to get much more of Jacob He is going to be this years "Whats in the Hatch?" (but in season two)

Sayids Girl said
How would they explain where they were for over 90 days if not on an island? They certainly wouldn't be floating in the ocean that long.

The lie could be that they were the only ones to survive the crash in the water, managed to find a piece of debris or an emergency reft and floated to any number of findable islands. where only the six (maybe baby) of them. survived on that uninhabited findable island until they were found... the question is still why.

and

In last years flash forward the guy in the pharmancy recognized Jack as a "hero", Jack said he wasn't a hero. In this flash forward he's signing autographs. What did he do that was so amazing?

The nurse that treatd Jacks forehead cut also said he was a Hero Twice over... So my guess is the Crash and the bridge.

and

I was wondering that too. I think when Desmond went back into his own past he some how got intertwined with Charlie's past and changed Charlie's when he seen him performing on the side walk. Then it was up to Desmond to get Charlie's future back on track.

I really like the idea that when Desmond met Charlie (someone there on the island) in his backwards leap that there paths intertwined and stayed that way when Desmond returned. That kind of puts things into a cool perspective.

maven said...

I did wonder why and how Hurley got his look at Jacob's cabin. When we first saw the cabin (in a different place) it was surrounded by the ash, which most of thought was some kind of circle to keep Jacob and his cabin prisoner. Was that part of Jacob's plea to Locke: "Help me" get free? In J. Wood's blog (linked above by Memphish) he suggests that Locke opened up that circle and freed Jacob. That makes perfect sense to me. Was this part of what Locke's work was per Walt? Now that Jacob is free from the ash circle, he can summon those he wants to.

I think it's a given that Christian is in that chair (with screen caps to prove it) and I'm with the group that thinks it's Jacob's eye we saw. Could Christian and Jacob be the Bad Twins?

experimentalfilm! said...

LOST was number 1 for the tv guide channel's ratings slot . YAY !!!!

Fun Box Boards said...

maven said...
"the guy filming Hurley was Randy...his old boss from Mr. Cluck's."

Sweet.. thanks for the info

memphish said...

So does this mean Randy doesn't work at the box company anymore? Did it perhaps burn? (Find815 nod.) Or is he moonlighting? Or did Hurley's mom fire him?

memphish said...

Possible whispers transcript.

From Erased Slate at DocArzt:
"It is not like they're coming to us"

"is jacob a prisoner?"

"Are you afraid of this island?"

"Thomas really is... Very Special"

maven said...

Memphish: I think that Randy is working now at an electronic story that sells and installs stereos (there's a sign next to him, and he's wearing that vest with a name tag). Maybe that's why he had a video camera handy.

Most likely he's the kind of guy who goes from job to job and career to career all of his life. LOL

maven said...

Memphish: I listened to Doc's audio of those whispers. I couldn't really discern any of that. Of course, I don't have the best ears for this sort of thing.

It would be cool if that last line is true: Could Thomas be our Sam?

memphish said...

I wondered about the Thomas reference too Maven. According to J. Wood, Thomas means twin or something like that. And we've had tons of Toms on the show -- Tom Friendly, Kate's boyfriend with the toy plane, Aaron's father just to name 3.

Codysmom said...

Sayid'sgirl said...
capcomsaid
I think it was Christian in the chair and Jacob looking out the
window. ...I wonder if Desmond will have any more visions or was it just all about Charlie dying?

Actually, that was me who said this and I love your ideas that "when Desmond went back into his own past he some how got intertwined with Charlie's past and changed Charlie's when he seen him performing on the side walk. Then it was up to Desmond to get Charlie's future back on track."

BTW, you can be assured that any of my comments here are pure speculation from watching the show and reading other comments on this blog because I'm totally afraid of spoilers and avoid them like the plague.

I went to the link for the whispers and I can't make out anything except "is very special".

Off to read J. Wood's blog... thanks lady links-a-lot:)

Melissa_Lossa said...

TLCM!!!! Or itgirl now, I guess. So glad to have you back! We've wondered about you many times over the last year. :) I'm glad to hear that you're doing well and I hope to see you around more!


memphish - thanks for the info on the whispers. I can't make out anything myself, so it's interesting to see what other people think. :)

I'm also curious on whether Desmond's visions will continue. So far, they've all involved Charlie - perhaps Des will start having visions of Charlie more like Hurley's now?

Maybe that's why Charlie is able to appear to Hurley? I always thought that it wasn't Desmond's destiny to save Charlie - it was Charlie's destiny to be saved (he's had several near-death experiences, even before Des came on the scene). Maybe by that same token, it wasn't Desmond's destiny to see Charlie - it was Charlie's destiny to be seen.

I know that sounds a bit existential, but I wonder. :) Didn't Charlie's mother tell him that he was "special" at some point? I always assumed he was special because he was a musician, but maybe it's more than that. He did have that strange dream/vision about saving Aaron.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Oh, also - regarding the "who's in the coffin" mystery: I don't think that it's one of the Oceanic 6. Judging by Hurley and Jack's conversation in TBOTE, the 6 are at least minor celebrities who have been covered extensively by the media. I think that if one of them had died, especially by suicide, the media would have been there. At the very least, there would have been some mourners, even if they were just wackos who wanted to see a dead celebrity.

I also think that the 6 are the only survivors, as far as the public knows. Ana's partner obviously believes that she died in the crash, and I'd bet that the public still believes that 815 is on the bottom of the ocean. I'm not sure what the story will be, but nobody even suggests that there's anything special about the 6, other than them being alive.

scoutpost said...

Wow you really don't want to get behind on this blog!

A few things after reading everybody's comments today:
Memphish mentioned that maybe Kate's "him" is Aaron. I like that idea. I mean Kate seems to be a different more responsible person in the FF, maybe motherhood is what changed her. I know Kate wouldn't be a logical choice for mother, but all I can think of is these disaster type movies where people are in a desparate situation trying to escape- maybe Claire was dying or for some reason she couldn't get a spot on the helicopter and she gave Aaron to Kate to save his life. Something like that (if I'm even making sense).
Twinkle mentioned that maybe Jacob, smokey and the island were all the same sort of - immediately I thought of the Trinity. What if they are all parts of a twisted trinity and that the Others worship that at the temple...
Sigma6 (welcome by the way)- Ben very well could be in the coffin. I was thinking that maybe the O6 are not the only ones who make it off. There could be Michael, Ben, Juliet etc. Maybe some of them are in a witness protection type program and had their names changed to protect them from who knows who.

Thanks for the J. Wood link as always memphish.
Itgirl/TLCM welcome back!!! We are so glad you're doing better. YOu were definitely missed and thought of while you were gone.

Also one observation after watching the epi again last night- it was very disturbing to me when Jack came to see Hurley at the end and Hurley was apologizing for not going with Jack, etc. Like maybe as a result of him going with Locke something bad happened that could've been avoided. I wonder if anyone would've gone with Locke if Hurley hadn't spoken up. Maybe for a 2nd time Hurley feels responsible for people dying (like the people on the balcony).

Twinkle said...

Dude, those whispers are tough to make out.

Exposed said:
What if Penny's Dad is behind the "rescue" and actually just wants to make sure Desmond never gets back to his daughter so she can finally move on?

I think Daddy Widmore is behind the freighter too. He's the one who could most easily fake it being from Penny.

What if she thinks the people searching for him answer to her, but her Dad actually controls them? Could this have something to do with Naomi switching channels?

Hadn't thought about Penny thinking she was in charge of the freighter. That's a good angle, except that Penny knew nothing of the boat when Charlie talked to her. I thought Naomi switching channels was so they could get a fix on their location. Did I miss something?

I hope Penny is putting two and two together from her conversation with Charlie and hightailing it over to the island right now!

And he's the only person I can think of with enough influence and money (because kate's in a nice car and all) to keep the 6 quiet back at home. With enough money you can do just about anything, right?

That's interesting that it might be the Widmore's who are keeping the 6 quiet and sponsoring their lives back home. It makes sense because Widmore might have a personal investment in keeping the island secret.

We have given in to discussing one quasi-spoiler, that TPTB stated that the person in the coffin is someone we've seen. I provided the link to that info yesterday but didn't refer to it in conversation. Maybe I should have more carefully marked it as a spoiler. Evidently ya'll don't mind but I'll try to be more careful in the future.

Cool about the video guy being Hurley's former boss!

Twinkle said...

Melissa said:
the 6 are at least minor celebrities who have been covered extensively by the media. I think that if one of them had died, especially by suicide, the media would have been there. At the very least, there would have been some mourners, even if they were just wackos who wanted to see a dead celebrity.

That's a very good point!

Scoutpost said:
Like maybe as a result of him going with Locke something bad happened that could've been avoided.

That's kind of the sense I had too. I don't think Hurley regretted siding with Locke so much as abandoning Jack and then something bad happened to them. It sounded like a, "Sorry I wasn't there for you when you needed help" kind of apology to me, not a "I was wrong to not want to go with the freighter people." See?

Melissa_Lossa said...

twinkle - I agree about Hurley's apology. To me it sounded more like he was apologizing for siding against Jack. Those two have always seemed to have a bond and been friends.


Papa Widmore could have found out that Penny was looking for Desmond and used that info to launch the freighter expedition. Penny's money seems to come from Daddy (I don't remember any indication that she does anything herself to earn money), and she must have spent quite a bit to set up that station in the arctic. Seems like Dad would have found out about that eventually.

I think we need to find out what the freighter's primary objective is. That story about Penny is pretty elaborate, especially since they went to the trouble of getting that photo of Penny and Des and having Naomi carry it. So is the freighter looking for the island, or are they looking for Desmond?

One thing I'm still curious about: In FBYE, Penny and Des receive one copy of the photo from the photographer. They break up immediately after, and Des takes the photo with him. However, in LTDA, Penny also had a copy. And now Naomi has a copy, too. I guess Naomi's copy could have been made from Penny's original, but where did Penny's original come from?

I guess this could just be a continuity error, but I thought I had heard somewhere that it wasn't.

Twinkle said...

Yes, or Daddy could have already had a station in the artic and she just co-opted it for a project.

-Or- Daddy was looking for the island too and the guys made two calls, one to Penelope (by her request) and one to Daddy Widmore.

What if Widmore wants to take over the island since Hanso's not using it anymore and exploit it for his own purposes? He knows *of* the island but not where it is from Hanso. Somehow Widmore figured out that might be where Desmond was located, so Widmore pulled a double whammy. He sent the freighter to both to search for Desmond (to "rescue" him but really to do him in) and to take over the island for his purposes. Maybe the "I'm from Penny" ruse was to gain Desmond's trust so he'd show them the lay of the land? But how did Daddy Widmore figure out that Desmond was there?

maven said...

Melissa_lossa: Good point about the media covering the death of an O6. The only thing that might put a snag in that idea is that the media is pretty fickle and moves onto the next story. Even if only 1 or 2 years have passed since the O6 were famous, the media might be on the next Britney episode.

Erich said...

Love the Papa Widmore angle. Makes a ton of sense.

I'm gonna stick to both "Michael's in the coffin" and "Michael's one of the Oceanic 6." We know his part of the story's not over, and can you imagine what it would be like if Jack got to the freighter, the door opens, and here's Michael and Walt? Even if they didn't do that, imagine a flashforward between Hurley's and Jack's, where later Jack goes to a mysterious apartment, knocks on the door, and there's Michael. (Though many of us might be expecting it, that could be the eighth episode clifhanger.)

Given Walt's advancing age, they could either show him only as a teenager from now on, or take him out of the story entirely (perhaps because of estrangement between him and his father).

Here's another thought: what if the O6 are the only six survivors not because they chose to be, or because everyone else died, but because they ended up on some "list," like the one Michael was given at the ed of S2, or the one Jacob so famously wrote?

Dunno. Just a few thoughts. Gotta stick with the Michael twist, though.

Erich said...

Forgot to add: Michael (or whoever's in the coffin) could have been one of the O6 and still had a poorly attended funeral. He could have started a new life under a flase identity to avoid attention, and gone under the radar.

Erich said...

Oh, and "flase" is an obscure ancient German word meaning "false."

scoutpost said...

erich- your knowledge of ancient German could come in handy someday with this show! LOL

I thought about the O6 being chosen because of a list too. I mean Jack, Kate and Hurley were on the first list. But if they are part of the 6 because they were on some list, then still we don't know why them?

scoutpost said...

just finished reading J.Wood- he is obsessed with Kate's freckles- or lack thereof! I can't decide if that is a clue like he thinks, or if it's nothing. I haven't heard anyone else mention anything about them. hmmm

Melissa_Lossa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
2costa said...

seems to me that the place they found the intact oceanic plane is where the island appears when the swan clock isnt pushed, when that happened a cashamir effect happened and two planes were there like the 2 number 15 bunnies, i think the stegasuarus clue relates to time travel and the islands weird time, because we are just finding the wreckage now or last year or whatever but cooper and naomi told the storys about the plane 90 days after the crash, which ties into why walt it so old and richard is so young???

Carol Dunstan said...

I haven't listened to the whispers yet, but my first thought on reading what others thought was "our Sam" too. I don't think he'll be the Thomas the whispers are whispering about but anyway.

I hadn't picked up on Randy filming Hurley's arrest either, I haven't had a chance to rewatch the episode (I'm rewatching the old ones)

which reminds me, the suggestion that Claire may give Aaron to Kate to raise I don't think is so odd... Kate did deliver him and I think there is a bond there because of that. But then I also remembered something else: Malkin said Claire had to be the one to raise the baby (I know he was a shamster but I do think he did see something about Claire and the baby's future)

2costa said...

maven i will work on my punctuation, but i am fairly convinced that the hooded figure that came up to the window in jacobs cabin was charlie pace. It would also make sense that charlie and jacob are hanging in jacob cabin because both of their dead bodies were on the island. I think hurley vision of charlie is real, he obviously has the gift of second sight by the way he saw the cabin to begin with, it makes me curious if dave was ever a real person or just a creation of hurleys mind. IF dave was planted in his mind it jives with hurley being off the island, because if youll remember dave tryed to get hurley to kill himself. Which would imply they dont want hurley on the island, thats why hurley had such a tough time making the plane in the first place. It also might explain why they always make a big deal about rejecting hugo at the dock, perhaps they were hoping he got messed up by smokey on the way home...

2costa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
2costa said...

i meant the worph. As i stated before i dont think the frieghtys can access the island with their ship and if they do they can't seem to land, that is just because the island is visible doesn't mean that the electromagnetic force field is disabled, perhaps they are their to disable it. I really think that locke pressing 77 is what called the freighter to the island. I think they are looking to clean up the hostiles, by killing naomi locke became a hostile and everyone that goes with him will be considered a hostile, which might explain hurley lament over choosing locke over jack. If you imagine, had locke gone off by himself they could have had a better relationship with the frieghtys. I think Lockes determination to go to the barracks also jives with the press 77 theory because that is where non-hostiles would be on the island, the problem is the can easily be trapped within the sonic fence if ben changes the code to something julliette doesnt know or the frieghtys have access to this info...

2costa said...

i know ive said if before, but in my mind their is no senario that the freightys would let anyone escape the island especially knowing they are all considered dead to begin with. This brings me back to the hidden sub theory, since the electromagnetic feild is still up then the sub will be the only way to leave. here is the link to the official secret clue to 3x13 where it acts like locke hid the submarine
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=240896&cl=2812537&ch=240960&src=y7tv
this clip has me convinced

memphish said...

ML said::) Didn't Charlie's mother tell him that he was "special" at some point?

She says that when Charlie gets the piano for Xmas. She says he's going to get them all out of here. Then the dream/memory changes and his dad cuts the head off the baby doll and Mum, Dad and Liam all refer to Charlie saving them. Hard to say if that was real or what.

And Oh, also - regarding the "who's in the coffin" mystery: I don't think that it's one of the Oceanic 6. Judging by Hurley and Jack's conversation in TBOTE, the 6 are at least minor celebrities who have been covered extensively by the media. I think that if one of them had died, especially by suicide, the media would have been there.

Good call. It should at least be in the obit.

Scoutpost citing Twinkle said: Twinkle mentioned that maybe Jacob, smokey and the island were all the same sort of - immediately I thought of the Trinity. What if they are all parts of a twisted trinity and that the Others worship that at the temple...

I like that idea.

Twinkle said:What if Widmore wants to take over the island since Hanso's not using it anymore and exploit it for his own purposes? He knows *of* the island but not where it is from Hanso. Somehow Widmore figured out that might be where Desmond was located, so Widmore pulled a double whammy. He sent the freighter to both to search for Desmond (to "rescue" him but really to do him in) and to take over the island for his purposes. Maybe the "I'm from Penny" ruse was to gain Desmond's trust so he'd show them the lay of the land? But how did Daddy Widmore figure out that Desmond was there?

I like to think that Mrs. Hawking who knows where Desmond is told Widmore.

If I were Future Jack and wanted to find the Island, I would enter Widmore's sailing contest.

memphish said...

2Costa, good point that if the Freighties are up to no good, they might feel compelled to prevent any of the 815ers from leaving the Island under any circumstances.

Also, have you seen anything comparing Charlie's eye with the eye in the cabin. Given the rest of the episode that's a very plausible idea that it would be Charlie in the cabin.

2costa said...

i made a comparison of the charlie eye and jacob eye and its not perfect because the cabin eye was super surprised but the hoody and hoody shadow are alomost perfect or the shadow of the hoody on the persons temple...just click on my name sorry had to make my own screenshots not as clear as the darkufo, but that one wasnt working when i did this...

2costa said...

for me the eye shape is a dead giveaway the only other one that has that squint in the corner of his eye is mikhail, who is who i though it was when watching in real time...cover up the real charlie eye with your hand and try to imagine the cabin eye being charlies it works for me

takes a village said...

Itgirl,
Great hearing from you again.We missed you.You've been in my thoughts, and prayers.Enjoy 815.

Looks like Jacob's cabin in the woods, has now become a mobile home.
Why is it we always seem to have more questions than answers after an episode of Lost?
Daddy Widmore is a big player in this game,but just how big remains to be seen.I loved this ep. I'm off to watch it again now.

maven said...

2costa: Good comparison, but the screencap over at Dark's gives me the impression of an "older" face. The skin doesn't seem like it would be on a person of Charlie's age.

Although, I would agree with Memphish, with the emphasis on Charlie and Hurley, that would make sense that is who Hurley sees in the cabin.

I still say, that Hurley does not know what Christian Shephard would look like. So why is that who Hurley sees (same with Vincent in the mobisode)? Maybe more and more of our Losties will be seeing Jacob now that he seems free from the ash circle.

2costa said...

like i said it could be mikhail as well those are the only two im willing to beleive...

2costa said...

christain being a major force on the island also gos with the fact that three of his bilogical relatives are on the island imho...
it will be important

2costa said...

look at it now maven i made a new one and doubled up the cabin eye the bone structure is a perfect match... click the bog

memphish said...

Kristen at E! and The New York Times are reporting the writers strike is almost over. Here's hoping that's true and that Damon, Carlton and the rest are in the writers room ASAP. Good thing Jorge's Milwaukee vacation seems to be over.

maven said...

2costa: Thanks for working on that comparison. It's very close. I'm just not sure enough, so I think it's a "wait and see" mode I'm going to use right now.

Memphish: I saw that on Nikki Finke's blog, too. There's still a lot of work to do on getting a final draft done. And the membership has to vote on the deal, too. All that takes time. Hope it gets done so all the shows we love can get back to work! Did you mention somewhere that the cut-off date for the remaining episodes would be the end of this month?

2costa said...

aw that would be so awsome if they settle the strike we might get all 16 episodes...

memphish said...

Yeah Maven. Nikki Finke has said that before, that's why I quoted different sources. And yes, it's more than just an announcement that's needed, but with Carlton on the negotiating committee maybe, maybe, LOST could get back to work faster than some.

I think Michael Emerson estimated that they needed to be back at work (not sure if he meant writers or actors) by Feb. 20. I suppose it's going to be a complicated decision making process with lots of parties involved between writers, production companies, actors and networks in terms of what can get made should the strike end and when it would air. LOST is in Grey's Anatomy's timeslot right now after all.

Sayid'sgirl said...

codysmom
Sorry about mixing you up with capcom. And the bad thing was I double checked to be sure.
I need to start taking notes when that is so much to read.
scoutpost
I never thought of Hurley feeling guilty about something that might have happening because he went with Locke. But it would be just like him.

maven said...

Here's
the latest on the strike
reported by LA Times. It is beginning to look like good news! Everyone seems to be holding their breath, but it looks like some major hurdles have been agreed upon. Let's hope everyone gets back to work soon!

maven said...

FYI: EW has an episode guide of Season 1...a quick synopsis and mythology tidbits.

Brianne said...

Hi all! I don't post very often at all, but I figured that I'd put my 2 cents in!!

I, too, believe that it was Charlie's eye in the cabin window. I also believe that Christian was in the cabin too because those were the two people that I believe we know of that died off the island. THis may only make sense if Charlie's body was somehow freed from TLG and brought back to the island...It's just a theory :-)

This also may be why Charlie is dead, yet he is here. Maybe he's still alive on the island like Locke is un-paralyzed on the island, and Rose is cancer-free on the island. Again, another theory.

Twinkle: I agree with you that Hurley apologized to Jack in the FF because he felt bad that he went with Locke. Then I think something bad happened to the Keys that Hurley felt he could have helped with. In the FF with Charlie, CHarlie told Hurley that he didn't tell him he knew he was going to die because Hurley would have tried to stop him. I believe this is because all Hurley wants to do is help. He wants to be able to "pull his weight," no pun intended.

I don't remember who said it, so forgive me, but I too believe that Jacob's shack is now free to "roam" because Locke has undone the ash ring, which I think acted as a protective circle, or a prison. I really think this will make things interesting in future epis.

Twinkle, again :-) - I like this idea about the trinity! If you've ever listened to the song "3" by Blind Melon off of School House Rock, Rocks! "It's the magic Number!" lol The Holy Trinity that I was taught, being Catholic, is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. On the island, we have a son, Jack, and maybe a father, Christian....is Jacob the island's holy spirit? If this is the case, what does it mean?

Brianne said...

Oh, one more thing. I'm not sure, but after I rewatched the scene where Jack's mixing the morning drink and the police chase is on the TV...If you listen to the news anchor, she addresses the journalist in the helicopter as Jeff, but when she asks, "Is that a Camero," I think she may say Jack. Someone please let me know what you think...I may just be hard of hearing. If this is the case, was someone to get Jack's attention via the news anchor? The island? Charlie? He looked up as if they had just said his name, not when they said camero. Maybe this "Message" was to get Jack to go to Hurley. And Hurley would, in turn, drop the bomb about having to go back to the island?

So many unanswered questions! I can't wait until next week's epi!

scoutpost said...

Oh my gosh I hope the writers and studios can come to an agreement! Wouldn't it be cool if we could get some more LOST episodes!!! I SO hope this is the case. I'm sure I would shed tears of joy. I think the Academy Awards show has many people motivated to get it ended. I don't care what the motivation is- just that they get it all settled.

As far as the eye in the window- I just don't know if we can figure it out. To me IMHO it doesn't look like Charlie's eye. I know the color is off, but if you look at other pics of Dom Monighan- he has bright blue eyes and the one in the window looks more brown or green. I wouldn't rule him out considering all the other factors, but I just don't know.

Sigma6 said...

Regarding the Trinity idea (which I really like), it's worth noting that the oldest Dharmic religion, Hinduism, also has a trinity, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.

Sigma6 said...

...Vishnu also has earthly incarnations (eg, Krishna). Maybe a connection with the apparitions?

Passafist said...

Here's this weeks Show, ENJOY!!!

http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-24061/TS-88171.mp3

Join hosts David A Dein and Steve "The Goog" Guglich as they wade through the "freckage" of the last four Mobisodes, Season 3 Episode 1 "The Beginning of the End" and along with "oceanic-conspiracies.blogspot.com/" moderator and blogger Ange as we discuss the FIND815.com ARG. Join in the fun by e-mailing TLCpodcast@gmail.com or call 206-202-3512 and leave a comment.

memphish said...

Looking forward to the podcast and finally hearing Ange. Way to go Ange!

I've put a poll up about the mystery eye over on my blog. Stop by and vote as to who you think the eye belongs to.

Finally, I entered the Vantage Point contest, but I thought there was supposed to be some tie-in with unseen LOST material. Does anyone know anything about that or did I just misunderstand?

Ange said...

Memphish: You can read a little about the Vantage Point tie in stuff here

The other night there was a commercial during Lost and they gave a 6 digit number that you typed in at the Vantage Point header on ABC.com. It unlocked this little widget thing with deleted Hurley scenes and stuff. It was cute but nothing mind blowing. Although there is more to come today so maybe it'll get juicier.

PS: I think I was the first one to take your poll...hehehe. I'm still stuck on Tom Friendly because that's my first though.

Ange said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ange said...

Memphish: This is where you need to go at ABC: http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=connection

At the top is the header that redirects you to where you enter the code to "unlock" the Lost stuff. It's totally different than what they had when I unlocked it on Wednesday though.

2costa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
2costa said...

made a pic of the eye put together with its inverse with no other pic superimposed, i used the crustier looking skin maven so look at my blog anyone whos interested, its pretty freaky, i can't say its charlie for sure but its interesting nonetheless...

2costa said...

i also read in the paper today that u were right maven and the strike is almost over they need to dot the i's and cross the t's and vote on it...

memphish said...

Does anyone have that Vantage Point code handy? There's no chance of me getting to look at it on the DVR today. Also, how do we know more is to come today? And where would it be given that my TV is now locked on FOX?

I saw those pictures you did 2Costa. Good work. I like the idea that it is Charlie given the other interactions Hurley had both on and off Island, but at this point I'm going with it being Jacob. In The Man Behind The Curtain commentary on the S3 DVDs Damon and Carlton emphasized Jacob's eye several times. I'm thinking the eye shot going forward is going to be a Jacob thing.

Which raises the question are those with past eye shots in deeper communion with the Island than people who haven't had eye shots, or like Earl in My Name is Earl are those actors just incapable of doing an eye shot?

2costa said...

well its definetly a diffenrt eye than jacobs first appearance but that could be because they hadnt cast the role yet i guess it was jack bender the first time but ill do a comparison of old and ne jacob eyes

Ange said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ange said...

Memphish: That link I posted (the second one to abc) says the code right in the Vantage Point bar at the top. 000 815 I think it is.

scoutpost said...

Just checking in today- Happy Super Bowl Day!

We don't have tickets but we're getting ready to head over to Glendale to take in the festivities and watch the game over there. Have a great day!

maven said...

Great podcast, David and Goog! Love hearing our Ange doing a great job summarizing Find815. You raised all the right questions about this season opener. BTW: That HO thing could be holmium, which is an magnetic property. We got a lot of science stuff during Find815, and we tried to relate everything to how the island can remain hidden from the outside world. This HO thing could be another hint.

Ellen said...

Where do I find the podcast?
xxoo

Fun Box Boards said...

Could Matthew Abbadon be the Smoke Monster?

Check out that link,
Mazzy

picsel said...

Hey guys im back as a full-time poster again :D i havent been posting in ages as ive been too busy with exams (again) and the whole Cloverfield business lol

but i back now and god was that a good episode! i was glued - i hate getting it 3 days later than you guys but its better than being a week and 3 days like last season!

Now all i need to do is catch up with Find815.com lol can i still play laong and like start from the beginning? im so far behind :O

picsel said...

I really think the HO thing was just them playing 'Horse' but maybe im wrong. god maybe its been so long since i saw the show ...that...that... ive become a casual viewer :O

Zort70 said...

I've just finished watching episode 1 in the UK and I have a mostly positive recation to it.

My main gripe is that nothing was resolved, and of course many more questions were raised.

I'm going to catch up with some of the comments.

picsel said...

whey another UK'er are you fairly newish on this blog zort? i was sure i was the onlyUk'er on here, but i havent been on much in agesss

Zort70 said...

Glad to hear you are o.k. itgirl (tlcm) it has brightened up a wet and windy day in the UK no end.

Has anyone conmmented on who the person who parachuted from the helicopter is ? Whether he is a brand new character or if we might have seen hime before ?

Zort70 said...

Hi picsel, I've ben arround since TLE but I don't comment on a very frequent basis.

I'm in Staffordshire, where abouts are you ?

picsel said...

Ah yeah my commenting died down alot after TLE

Im in Worcestershire :)

The character who parachuted looked very familiar to me, but that could just be out of another program but he had something about him that i recognized.

2costa said...

i made a comparison with the first jacob eye and second and no question they are differnt and i put two season 3 jacob eyes together, the guy that looked at hurley in the cabin was wearing a hoody and the only other guy than charlie that has worn a hoody is ethan and that pic is on the blog as well...just click my name

maven said...

Hey, Zort and picsel: Good to see you again! Daniel Faraday is a new character for this season.

2costa: You're doing such a good job trying to find out whose eye that is! I applaud your efforts. I'm still voting for Jacob. But, as always, I'm open for anything.

Hope all had a great Super Bowl Sunday! I actually felt sorry for the Patriots.

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