I don't know about you guys but I am loving these consecutive episodes without any breaks! Tonight, we are told that Claire becomes suspicious of Charlie's peculiar behavior, while tensions mount between Sayid and Locke. I'm curious to see how the writers will try to make us laugh now that they have their hands tied with Sawyer's name-calling gag order.
Wednesday, March 14, 2007
PAR AVION - SEASON 3, EPISODE 12
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LuckyGuyLikeMe said...
Also, some better news on the ratings front!
Yes, the folks at ABC must be patting themselves on the back for their genius move of scheduling non-stop new episodes. Right now, Lost is the only major Wed. show not in repeats. (Actually, other than 24 I can't think of another show on any night not in repeats.)
audiopimp said... was totally hoping the birds would fly straight into the microwave security fence right at the end of the episode
Narratively, they needed kate to see the birds fly over the security perimeter so she would know it didn't extend up beyond the pylons; so she could suggest the plan that they go over the top like they did.
or perhaps I am confused about the order of events in the episode.
Hi guys. Jumping straight in two days late. Well I would have posted last night but was too tired after I finally caught up.
Anyway a few things.
1) Wasn't the Claire thing the worst kept secret in the show. Kinda glad that is finally out in the open. I couldn't see any other way for that to work out. Also Ben isn't "Him". Did anyone really think Ben was "Him"?
2) Once again memories are triggered BEFORE the event that triggers them. Clare was lead to thinking about her mother by the seaguls, yet she was thinking about it before she saw the Gulls. This continues to happen every episode and leads me to continue speculating that it's not just Desmond with some kind of future sight, just Desmond is the only one that is concious of it.
3) Claire looks hot with black hair. Just saying. :) Although how many people do you know that work in tatoo/piercing shops that seem to be kinda lacking in peircings and tatoos? You'd think they could have at least given her a nose ring or something.
4) Seeing as Lockes not pressing the button seems to have lead to the island loosing it's beacon, I'm starting to wonder if Locke does have some motive for doing the things he does aside from his need for spiritual direction. Is he there to sabotage the Others and cut off the island from further recruitment from Jacobs list.
audiopimp said... i would also like to add that i am still completly against the desmond time travel theories. admin guys - please don't give in to the peer pressure to buy the time travel take on his story.
FWIW, I agree with you on this.
The best way to get your message heard is to get involved in the Podcast by calling 732-564-4763 and leaving a voice mail, or by sending an e-mail or MP3 comment to TLCpodcast@gmail.com.
Okay so now I've watched the previews for next week so...
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Spoiler (inc Canadian Trailer)
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What I said above about Lockes alterior motives. I think the trailer backs that up as it looks a lot to me like Locke took the C4 to BLOW UP the submarine.
Anyway, there are two theories as to why a simple one (he just wants everyone to stay on the island for selfish personal reasns) and a complex one (To stop the others movement on and off the island).
That is all.
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(spoiler for people reading the comment bellow)
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Scoutpost said - "Also, regarding your observations- yes I remember that knowing glance exchanged between Locke and Patchy re: the list. During the whole convo it seemed as if Patchy was really talking to Locke knowing Locke had some kind of different understanding than Kate and Sayid. There's definitely something fishy going on there."
I just want to mention on this that Ben did tell Locke that he had come for him and that he was different. I don't think he mentioned a list, but certainly Locke may have added 2 and 2 together and suspect his name is perhaps on the list, or at least that there was some kind of list.
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Ange said "3. Christian Shepard, in the hospital, alludes to another method to help Claire's mother. Stating that taking her off life support was illegal (codysmom) mentioned this earlier, but that there were things he could make happen. WHAT THINGS? "
Okay, here's a theory and this is pushing things perhaps a bit sci-fi for some people, but bear with me. There are supposedly drugs that can sustain a body and make it appear that the body is dead. Such drugs have been the subject of films like Serpent and the Rainbow and are supposedly used in Haitian myths that are supposedly the basis for stories about Zombies. Yes Zombies, lol. But not in the sense that you'd normally think.
Now what if when using these drugs you could send a supposedly dead body to the island where the elctro-magnetic/whatever heaeling powers of the island could fix the body and essentially bring it back from the dead. This could be what he had in mind for Claires mum if he did indeed know about the island.
But that brings up another thing. Maybe that is what he had in mind for himself....
Also how smug would the writters be after all that going on about the Zombie season if there was infact links to that specific kind of zombie!
Also Serpent and the Rainbow was a cool film. :)
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Maven said - "2. Before the EMP, Patchy and his group could come and go from the island via the sonar beam and sub. Where were they going?"
Okay, now my theory for that is simply that they would leave the island to get further recruits/names off the list. I believe the Others were all already active on the island at the time of Julliets recruitment and that means it's very possible they left the island specifically to make the recruitment.
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Finally congrats David!
home sweet home.
Tom,to Jack, for 6....Touchdown!
Morning all...hope everyone is heading into a great weekend!
Hi, Fenris! Very astute observations on your part. Yes, the sub would be used to bring fresh recruits in as well as supplies and information.
In regards to what other things Christian could do for Claire's mum: I would think he would want to end her suffering and he had a medically way that would make it appear that she died via natural causes instead of actually "pulling the plug" and committing euthanasia. I believe it is illegal in Australia to commit euthanasia, so Christian would want to offer Claire a way out without her being prosecuted. With that being said...the fun LOST way of doing things would be for Christian to have this secret drug that would induce a fake death and he would have used it on himself. Remember, he had connections to at least four Losties (Jack, Claire, Ana Lucia and Sawyer) and he manipulated them to be on Flight 815. He's on the island and is....Jacob! Hahaha
P.S. Only 4 WV to post!
Hi Peeps,
I just dropped in and haven't read all of today's installments yet, but before I do, I'd like to say, Hey Lisa! You don't have to feel that way here! We are all just regular peeps here, and your posts were great!!
OK, going to read the rest of everyone now. Should be juicy, and I see Fenris is here today! :-)
Hey everybody! Work has been a nightmare, so I haven't had time to catch up until now. Which sucks, because this episode was pretty good.
I don't have any deep thoughts today, but I just wanted to say hi.
Admin, congrats on the impending little one! That video was too funny.
TLCM - I hope you get a chance to check back here and know that we're all thinking about you. I hope your trip is wonderful!
Hi again. Just as an addition to what I said earlier speculating (and it is just speculation) about Christian and the possibility of using a mixutre of zombie drugs and the islands healing powers on Clairs mum and indeed himself. Perhaps his visit to see Claire before he died was to make a final attempt to get the go ahead to do something for her mother. Perhaps, if he did indeed plan to "die" all along and go to the island, he wanted to take her with him. Perhaps the whole thing was set up.
...Actually, the psychic that got Claire on that plane was found to be a fraud by Ekko. So maybe he was paid to get Claire on the plane by Christian. Perhaps both he and Claires mum are both alive on the island. If it is a "survive the apocalypse" type scenario then it makes sense he'd want his family there. I'm not sure if the Jack part was planned though. That is... interesting.
Also another idea. What if he just needed Claires child. Being male and maybe containing some kind of genetic element that he would need in order to be revived. It is strange how the others seemed to have lost interest in Claires child, like they already got what they needed.
I keep thinking back to Christians body not being in his coffin. There is definetly something iffy going on. Hmm, maybe Christian isn't Jacob but is on Jacobs list. However Jack apparently wasn't. So maybe he didn't want to leave his loved ones and kinda rebelled.
OK, all caught up now.
Regarding Locke's said immaculate conception, even though his mother may be a kook and put it in those terms, what she might have meant (but is too simple to put scientifically--or, she was being esoteric and putting it metaphorically to him) is that he was cloned. And, perhaps he was one of the HFs, pre-official-DI, early clone experiments. That might explain his father's disinterest. But he is probably too old for that to fit into the timeline. Or, he could just be a test-tube baby, with no sex. That could qualify as immaculate to a nutty lady and also explain sperm-Dad's aloofness.
Luckyguy, we're glad that you're hanging out here too! :o)
Audio, you gave me my first guffaw of the day with the birds flying into the zapper! And who said that about Kate realizing that they could go up and over the fence because of the birds? Good comment!
Fenris, that's true about Claire working in a piercing shop and not having any herself...not likely. They should have given her a bunch of fake ones, they are used by those "weekend goths". :o) And Claire did look good as a goth, the black hair (albeit a bad wig IMHO) brought out the black borders of her light-blue irises and was very striking. I liked her boots too.
Also, I don't think (but I could be wrong) that the flashbacks are always a part of the characters' thoughts. I mean, yes, they do seem to be as if triggered by what is happening to them at the time on the island (via how they have that 1000-yard-stare right before and after their FBs), but some of the FBs might be just put there for the viewers to know something more about the characters. That is, to educate us on what drives the characters to react the way they do during certain events. Or not. It just seems like that to me sometimes.
I also don't think that Dez is doing a lot of time-traveling here. And I think that the time-travel/worm-hole/failsafe thing might have been more of a spacial dimension thing (see dimensions in string theory, etc.) more than actual linear or sideways time travel. Not that I know anything about either subject, but I know enough to be wrong! :-D And his precog ablilites I believe are just flashes of insight that he foresees, not actual time travel each time. But, I could be wrong here too.
OK, Maven says that Christian is Jacob...remember that she said it here first when it happens!! That would be so awesome and blow Jack away. It would either make him happy, or make him want to kill Christian with his bare hands. :-D
First WV didn't take, so I got to read Fenri's last post: what if Christian was on the list, and then died, so the DI had to settle for Jack as a second best, instead??? Also, maybe Claire and Rose's fake psychics are like the psychic in the movie "Ghost", where the spirit picks a phoney psycic to speak thru? :o) That's kind of the idea I got when that happened...as if being open to the spirit world, the fake psychic got inadvertently used by the spirits to actually do something right for a change. Especially the way that Claire's pschic seemed extremely surprised to be right, or was it, to actually be "seeing" something with her?
OK, trying once again for the WV to take.
Wow, sorry about the long post! I have to try to get here earlier, so I can respond incrementally to posts as they happen!
capcom said... And who said that about Kate realizing that they could go up and over the fence because of the birds? Good comment!
That was me. I realized after I wrote that, though, that the scene with the birds was near the end of the episode, and probably after they had already gone over the fence. Got to go back and watch again!
Well, just a few things to talk about from this ep. huh?
I don't think that Locke chose not to use the C4 on the fence just to save it. I think he didn't use it because he and most likely Sayid as well wanted the element of surprise. As was stated on the map, the fence is only 120 ft away from the barracks. A large explosion would just give away their position and bring the Others running. Plus there is no evidence that the fence actually made any real noise. The sound effect could have just been for show to the audiance.
The reason for Jack and Claire being siblings is simple. It will give Jack a reason to saty and break his deal with Ben to leave. He has nothing left in the real world and only wants to leave because the island makes him think of his dad since that is where he is buried. He will find out (like others have said) either from the others or on his own through what the others know. This will give him a sister and a piece of a family and a life right there on the Island. This ties into the theory(sorry can't remember who said it) that evryone has a reason to stay. In Jacks case... he hasn't found it yet.
I have pointed out before that I don't think the others lie. The only one we have seen lie is Ben and all he did was give false details (not really lying)just bending the truth and facts. Although he did sasy he was not one of the others, but this too can be just a little bend of the truth in that he doesn't think of himself as an Other. Also it might just be because he is their immediate leader and see's himself as above the others. In his mind it is... I am not one of them... I am their Boss.
Admin congrats,
Birds are gross... I thought you were a MAN... LOL J/K
HA HA... New Avi....
Urrrrrrggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!
Oh ded... LOL. That's just too warped.
Heh-heh, I'm sure Ded that the Others consider their stories to be just little necessary fibs, when they are less than forthcoming about themselves. :o) As in, all's fair in love and war and Otherville-threatening situations? You have a good point there. But Ben telling the Losties that he was Henry Gale? That's a pretty solid deceit, and not exactly a grey-area concept.....he either was or wasn't Henry Gale, and he wasn't.
I do completely agree however, that the Others do not consider any of what they might say that is deceiving, to be lies. Or should I say, they believe their "deceits" to be fully justifyiable for themselves and therefore are still honorable statements for self-preservational reasons. And you're right, they do for the most part skirt around actually telling lies, by avoiding questions, answering questions with questions, etc. Or, by using their now-standard answer, "It's complicated." :o)
That's too good Ded! He looks like he is smiling! Too bad the blood isn't shooting out of his ears in a frontal shot. Or at least I didn't see it during the ep. :-D
Ok Ded that's just gross :)
so that means that jack was the doctor that gave birth to his nephew.
there were test done on aaron at one of the camps, was he being tested for the same things as walt? or was claire the subject?
is jacks mom alive? was thinking that most of the losties have dead parent issues.
admin - congrats
I have to say, I also thought when I saw the birds fly away with the message that they would fly right into the zapper. That would have been too funny. I didn't realise that was what made kate thing about going over the fence but yeah that's a great observation there!
Okay, as for the Others lying. Patchy did change his story about how he was recruited. So he did lie to begin with (pressumably to begin with and not the second time). Also he claimed to be Dharma origionally. It could be that he was recruited twice, both by Dharma and the Others, then neither parts would be a lie. But I don't buy that. If "Him" is the leader of the Others and the Others did pre-date Dharma by a long time then it's very unlikely that the "Him" in question was origionally Dharma so Patchy would have to have been recruited by "Him" seperate from his Dharma recruitement. He also said that the Others got the sub off of Dharma. That suggests they couldn't leave the island until *after* the alleged "purge" and that would make his line about answering a newspaper add very questionable.
Finally Ben also lied about the bunny rabbit or at least he lied about lying about it!
Maybe the Others just like to tell half truths. Like they are playing some kind of mental game with the losties. But I don't know. I don't trust anything the Others say. It appears they do sometimes tell the truth, but not often.
True Fenris and Ded. The Others just have a very circuitous way of declaring the facts surrounding themselves, their actions, and the island. But if they lie about a lie, is that a truth? Heh-heh.
In regards to Jack and his nephew (I didn't even think of that!), I guess we have the possibility that Jack may find that info in his report, if he ever gets to read it. And it could end up being why they wanted Aaron so much, if Christian is/was important to the Others/DI, so then they could have Aaron who is of C's blood, but still an untainted innocent baby (unlike bitter and twisted son Jack).
bigdog said...
so that means that jack was the doctor that gave birth to his nephew.
Not exactly. He was busy operating on Boone when Aaron was born.
Close, though.
I like all of this talk about Christian being "Him". He has crossed paths with at least 4 of the losties (that we know of).
One crazy thought... what if Jack is "Him" and he just doesn't know it yet? Kinda like the others know what the future holds for Jack... I have absolutely nothing to back this up and like I said, it was a crazy thought (one of many that I've had since this show began).
Ok between blogger eating my comment and my kids being home on spring break, I'm ready to go to the island! Old Smokey is nothing compared to my 3year old!
Good list experimentalfilm, but I really do want to know how Claire cut her bangs so well.
Well people have speculated before that Christian Shepherd may have been involved with the DI and/or the island, and now that idea really seems plausible doesn't it? It would be pretty cool if C.S. or Jack were Jacob wouldn't it? ha
So- speaking of Henry Gale. Do you guys think he was anyone significant? I guess he could've just crashed on the island innocently, but has anyone who has come to the island gotten there accidentally? Someone obviously buried him (maybe Ben)- and Ben knew enough about him to steal his name. Wonder if he was a threat to the Others, or if he is just an insignificant character that was injected to provide an alias for Ben.
Hey, ib4uc, I kinda like what if Jack is "Him". And don't get down on yourself for a crazy thought. I've had lots of crazy thoughts and theories and I think they need to be expressed since they might lead to new not-so-crazy thoughts (even if someone just takes one part of it to run with). That's what made the TLEC so great!
experimentalfilm said...
also, remembering the episode "?" the psychic and family thought the daughter was dead .. and he says something along the lines of ".. which made her APPEAR dead ."
so maybe it WASNT hypothermia .. if psychic dude is a dharma recruiter, he could have given her those drugs to make this whole miracle conspiracy - forcing eko to postpone his trip to be on the right oceanic flight .
Good call! Also, that list is great and must have taken some time to do.
ib4uc - careful you'll lead me back into comparing the show to the 60s show "The Prisoner". The final episode had a reveal (which admitedly was kinda sureal) similar to what your talking about with Jack there. Lol.
Scoutpost - Yeah I've been wondering about Henry Gale. There is some kind of story there. I am actually wondering if Ben is actually Henry Gale and it is someone else buried at that point. Like he shed his past life identity to become "Ben" of the "Others". Hence him saying he was born on the island (I don't recall when he said that).
Hi again-
Clarification I never felt that anyone would ridicule me... just didn't feel like I had anything worth contributing! I read in awe of more knowledge than I posess! However, I do join many of you in reporting the LOST sleeplessness on Weds nights….
I'm re-watching season 2 on spring break...Who was it earlier who said that they thought John's dad was the real Sawyer??? I am 1000000% in with that theory after watching Lockdown. I'll take it one furthur...the kidney was a long con (a la our sawyer's explaination of it, it was John's idea to volunteer his kidney)....and even another step furthur.... I think we'll find that Helen was a party to the con ( or instigator of the con….ex. Like our Sawyers Gordy- those thugs worked for her, and John’s dad owed her money, but this may be taking the theory to far, forgive my leap)…For example, she’s the one reading the obits to pull John into the next one calling his attention to his dad's death-a vital part in the con was bringing it to John’s attention…and, I bet that the $$ in the safe deposit box is in fact, the money he took Sawyer’s parents for. Genious.
What an awesome theory..... you have my vote. How did you ever come up with it?
Here’s another thought on the above- we never see our Sawyer’s Gordy other than the restaurant (right?)….so, while this may be far fetched…. did he exist? Or is he the equivalent of Hurley’s Dave …baiting him back into old habits?
Also.... 2 other things:
From season 1---isn't bernard supposed to be in the bathroom? how does he end up seated and in a tree?
also from lockdown...my thoughts...FenryBenry knew those numbers prior to the hatch--- locke only had to say them once, he got knocked out, and he knew what to enter....
dead but not dead drugs…forgot about the psychic’s daughter (even if it was hypothermia) we’ve seen this theory/possilibty before…..you all are just brilliant! (yet still too many questions! great list!)
Jack as "him" - I think I have to never read here again..... the thoughts and ideas are just too much! I like it- for as much as my opinion is worth...if ANY of these theories are true...you guys just blow my mind!
Sorry- from shying away to rambling...didn't look that long when I was typing!
Hehe. Welcome to my world. :)
Fortunatly folks around here don't mind long posts. ALl the more to discuss.
That's ok, Lisa. I just hope your brain isn't bleeding (old joke)
And I like your idea of the long con on John-makes me want to whip out season 2 and watch that ep again.
lisa said...
Also.... 2 other things:
From season 1---isn't bernard supposed to be in the bathroom? how does he end up seated and in a tree?
I always thought after the turbulence, he quick got in an empty seat in the tail section (close to the bathroom) to be more safe (like Charlie did) though they didn't show us specifically.
Let me start off by saying that though I’m pretty new with posting on here, I’ve really enjoyed it. It’s a pretty cool community of posters. I’ve long had my Lost theories, but haven’t shared them much!
Anyway, regarding why Desmond scared off the birds:
I don’t think there was any “plot error.” As described in the show by Desmond, the circumstances of Charlie’s death visions are always changing. Simply put, I think there was a death scenario in there that we never heard from Desmond, and after he scared off the birds to stop one scenario, the new one arose, where Charlie chased after the bird and got dashed against the rocks.
Codysmom- I also thought it strange the cop who questioned Claire said there had been a “fatality.” There was no fatality – surely the cop knew that, or at least wouldn’t be so brash as to put it that way Very peculiar behavior for a police officer.
Re: The Fountainhead The Fountainhead is an excellent – if not extremely dense – book. Clearly you can draw some similarities between Locke and Roark, the antagonist of The Fountainhead. To make a long (long) story short, Roark is a stubborn architect who meets with failure because of his unwillingness to compromise. Roark does things in a different way from his architect colleagues, and though they try to convince him to conform and find success, he continues to do things his own way, eventually blowing up a building because it wasn’t created his way. Main connection to Locke: being stubborn, and blowing up a building because of what he believes. I think you can draw a lot of comparisons to Locke and objectivism.
Last part of the post:
- What other books have we seen Sawyer read? The Fountainhead, Of Mice and Men… what else?
- In our last episode about Locke, when the cop confronts him in the woods, what’s the resolution of that? I can’t remember – all I remember is Locke is aiming his rifle at him.
p.s.
I wish there was a way to break these posts up! It gets hard to follow when there's so many posts on a thread.
I am officially sick!!
Paulo is Xerxes in 300!! Well, his role is small consdiering the film. And it is not even his voice!!
Can we all vote that Nikki and Paulo be axed from Lost???
BTW, 300 is the best freakin movie ever created!!! Ok, so far this year!!
I just was wondering...When Patchy was pushed through the security fence, wouldn't he have triggered some kind of alarm in Otherville? This was obviously a breach in security, and Jack and the Others were playing football, fertilizing the lawn and biking! If they're so concerned about security and not letting anyone find out where they are, why no protocol set in place when security is compromised as it was when Patchy went through the barrier?
Maven - Well then wouldn't you have an alarm any time some kind of animal – polar bear, boar or otherwise – goes through the barrier? I'm thinking it's just a big "electric" fence.
By the way, doesn't that fence remind you of Jurassic Park?
if we agree that lockes dad is real sawyer than lockes dad slept with sawyers mom
add that to jacks dad slept with claires mom
could be some angry people when this all comes out.
Tim: Maybe over the years, the animals have learned through trial and error to stay away from that area. I still think some kind of alarm in Otherville should have gone off.
BTW: Hi, Thrasher! That "300" looks too bloody for me!
Ironic---sawyer, the self reported 9th grade dropout- (DAVE episode, during poker game) is the avid reader in the group. probably not significant to plot, just interesting.
guys (and gals), could really use some friends right now. please email if you can buttmonkey73@yahoo.com. or call/text me at 201-669-0197.
thanks.
dan (chuck)
Lisa - I think that is just a sign of Sawyers personality. He's actually very smart (needs to be for the con game) but went wrong as far as his development went. I've known people like that and they are quite often keen readers. Essentially Sawyer was self taught on the road while he did his cons.
Heh-heh, I was going to mention that about the movie "300" a few days ago Thrasher, but I didn't want to ruin anyone's day. I guess that I should have warned you. But if you give it a thumbs-up, we'll go see it. I thought that "Sky Captain" was a little boring due to the constantly fuzzy, monochromatic, total CGI scenes/sets (or maybe it was just the boring acting?), so I was unsure about seeing "300".
Fenris, how did The Prisoner end?! I never got to see the final episode. I should buy it, I loved that show.
Tim, I would also think that some kind of system breach alert would be activated on an Otherville security station console, when Patchy went through. We shall see!
You have friends here Chuck. Hope that all is OK.
Happy Friday LoCos!
*tlcm, be strong, enjoy your trip.
Don't spoil The Prisoner, please! I've been catching episodes here and there and I don't want to know the ending...please, pretty please.
* Welcome Lisa! I rarely have anything of great analytical substance to add, but that has never stopped me. Thanks for the Fountainhead analysis. I have to say, I really disliked that book because Roark made me so freakin' mad. He would wallow in the abuse until I wanted to punch him.
* Chucklez, hang in there, whatever it is.
* Dejezter, that is one awesome avatar! I love it and please keep it for awhile! mwah hah hah
* Did not anticipate the birds frying in the force field but laughed hysterically when it was mentioned here
* finally, let's lay off Paulo until he takes his shirt off and we have a better idea of whether it's worth having him on the island
Hi FYSB! You're right, I don't want to know how The Prisoner ends either, I should watch it first!
I second that about Roark and I have only limited agreement with Rand's ideas on total "self-centricity" being a noble trait. I understand what she means and fully agree with Roark's ideas on being true to one's creativity (I love his speech in the courtroom), but Roark is basically a selfish b#st#rd. J.Wood goes into it well in his article this week.
FYSB/Capcom - Don't worry I won't say anything else about the end of the Prisoner. Except for this - even when you have seen it you still won't be sure how it ended!
Luckyguy - It doesn't make a huge amount of difference as *most* of the episodes are self contained. As long as you watch the last 8 (I think) in order and of course the first one first, the rest isn't so important. I would recommend following the fan suggested though.
I always wanted to do a version of the opening speech bit with myself in the new no.2 role. Hehe. I will do that sometime.
Admin, congratulations! Loved the video. (My third grandchild is coming in November.)
tlcm, hugs and have a wonderful trip.
Good thoughts for you, Chuckles.
By the time I got caught up with the posts, you all covered most of my ideas, but here goes.
The Others are playing Locke. Again. He is so angry, frightened, and weak that he can't possibly be on the list.
The Others are flawed. Everyone is flawed. In sociology, cultures are formed by defining the group as different from everyone else, regardless of reality. They believe they are "good" because it makes them feel like they belong.
I can't give up on parthenogenesis. Not sure what role it plays, but I think it's important.
And finally, my wacko theory about the end of Lost: All of the Losties travel through time to fix what they had done wrong and live happily ever after.
Robots in the old "Rossum's Universal Robots" play-novel were actually clones that could not reproduce.
I blogged about the RUR TV broadcast and it's related air date (March 4, 1948) to the Hurley's Numbers
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?post_id=1036
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.U.R._(Rossum's_Universal_Robots)
In an interview some time back, Michael Emerson asks "What if the others were just a little bit different....."
Michael Emerson Interview Link
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.lost/browse_thread/thread/515c414739b6f419/c080e06d58b7de03?#c080e06d58b7de03
Hey all-
For the record- I didn't mean my observation to be any dis on Sawyer. Heck, without Sawyer, I didn’t know where Puhket was! I agree, it’s just one of thee ways they highlight his intelligence and thus, keep him on equal footing with the “doctor”.
Re: Roark – your comments are why I said I felt everything about his “virtue” was debatable. (Just don’t get me started on Dominique!) I am also not freakishly in agreement with Rand's overall views--- just love them because they are so thought provoking, dare I say often polarizing. They mess with my thoughts in the non LOST world (uh, the "real" world? debatable, eh?)- it was/is an interesting endeavor to apply them to our LOSTies!
Here is another “out there” thought--- the theory of multiple personality disorders keeps coming for me. Any chance our LOSTIES are all one person? Libby (in Maternity leave) talks to Claire about the “switch” in our heads that blocks things out… I know, there’s probably no reasonable way this theory is true--- but “Sybil” keeps coming up for me, so since you’re all being so friendly…thought I’d toss it out there. Maybe already been said…. and refuted.
So much for my relaxing week off.... spent in cognitive distress over LOST.... maybe I'll be happy to get back to work!
(Thanks for the conversation everyone- I only know one other real life person who watches....conversations get pretty hard to come by!)
Morning LoCos!
TBM- I do remember Michael Emerson saying that, and wondered what in the world he meant by that. The only argument against the clone theory is that the producers have said that you will never hear the word clones used on the show. They've said this usually in the same context as theories like purgatory that they are debunking. But it isn't far fetched to think that something like that is going on.
I didn't think you were dissing Sawyer, Lisa. It was a good observation infact and your right, I think one of the reasons the reading element is there is to put him on level terms with the good doc.
Heh, I just thought. We should take a poll about which outlandish theory you think is more likely. We could have "time travel", "Clones", "Zombie drug" and "Jack is HIM" for a starter. Perhaps the winner should then get discussed on the podcast. :)
Lisa: I also didn't think you were dissing Sawyer! Being a con artist takes a lot of smarts, and coming up with those Sawyerisms indicates a lot of brain power! LOL Also, we rarely see anyone else reading a book. Even P**** only reads a magazine on the throne!
Fenris: Like your idea for a poll on wacky theories! I'd like to add my really crazy one: Christian is Jacob!
OK here's a random theory-
Magnus Hanso and the Black Rock crash on the island back in the 1800's. The survivors of the crash(which were probably all male-all male crew back then) either a) reproduce with a group of (four toed?) people who already inhabit the island or b)figure out a way to reproduce using parthenogenesis. Perhaps Ben's group of Others are descendents of these people, and don't have the ability to reproduce the "natural" way. Somehow Alvar knows about the island and stages the DI there, and the war/purge breaks out. The parthenogenesis technology, and perhaps other technology gets lost due to loss of lives and now the Others, through Mittelos, recruit people like Juliet to help them recover the technology they lost and continue their race.
Well there's a lot you would have to figure in to make this theory work, and I haven't thought it out because it just came to me. Just thought I'd put it out there.
Happy Weekend LoCos!
TPTB have said that we will never hear the word 'clones' on the show? Soooooooooo then we are guaranteed that the DI will have named their cloning by another word???? ;-) Parthenogenesis sounds good, like you say! Especially since we have been waiting ever-so-patiently for its appearance on the show since last summer. :o) I think Dennis likes that idea too. I will be really excited whenever (if) they start getting into the guts of the weird science stuff, I love all that. And if the Others are the 'Parthos' (nobody said clones!), that could fit into what Emerson said about the Others fairly nicely.
I really hope that it was the Partho-people who turned on the DI after they grew up in a life of being DI "specimens", and "purged" Otherville of the DI so that they could live somewhat normal lives, and not the abnormal lives that the DI 'offered' to them as experiments. That would make them the "good guys" in their own eyes, irrespective of what they have to do to survive when someone crashes on their island, or threatens their sonically protected Otherville.
I think we know the driver of the truck was alive, because the police officer references "his" version of the story.
Of course, that's all assumption based on what the cop said.
Good ideas Experimental and Scoutpost.
Concerning the fence breach alert, it is good to have one just in case there is a group of people trying to get through. And as our feisty Locke showed us, once the first guy gets fried, the intruders that are left can think of other ways to get in. With the alert, then you can just go check your perimeter for rest of the peeps that might still be trying to breach the fence, and stop them. If nothing else, it will show you what area the intruders may have gotten through, and you'll know from which direction the intruders will be coming. Especially if you have cameras all over like the Others do, so there might even be cameras at intervals near the fence. But, having said all that, it doesn't seem as if Otherville knows that the A-team is coming, according to the final scene this week.
That's an interesting thought about the time missing (from the camera), where Locke and Patchy could have had a talk and made some deals.
experimenatlfilm said: - i wanna know who the driver of the truck that hit claire was . though i didnt see one at the scene of the accident .. maybye the fatality could have been him and they lied about it, whatever the case im sure the driver can be of some significance in the long run .
The police officer who interviewed Claire said that the truck driver was okay. Also, yeah I completely think that something is not right with her story of the accident.
Have a great St. Patty's everyone (if you do that sort of thing)...or just a great weekend! That is all.
Maybe Locke gets hit by a bus, too :)
Oh right, Happy St. Paddy's Day everyone! I forgot about it, since I don't live in NY anymore!
The fence - I've been thinking about this and reluctantly I have to admit I think it should have had some kind of monitoring. The fence seems a bit excessive to be set up on landing on the island by the DI. I mean the chance of the polar bears escaping the Hydra then swimming over to the main land and then finding and attacking the barracks has to be pretty slim and the rest of the wild life isn't that hostile.
Assuming Cerberus was set up by the DI and that given that it's still active either it doesn't go near hte barracks or the fence doesn't stop it that means that is out of the equation. But the existance of cerberus and the fence seems to suggest this was a reaction to the island becoming more hostile. That is assuming it was the DI that set them up.
Now regardless of who set it up it seems it was during a point of human conflict and where humans are involved it would seem to make sense that a group (either of them) obsessed with spying on everything would have something more then just a physical deterent to deal with breaches at their main camp.
Interestingly I began the post arguing the opposite. But while typing it I came to realise this made more sense. So the only conclusion I can think of is that maybe it's monitored but not alarmed and that the person that is usually obsessively watching monitors (i.e. Ben) is in bed being ill.
Fenris: I think that the fence should definitely have some sort of alarm or monitoring system that goes off when there is a breach. They would want to know what caused it, wouldn't they? Or, at least, clean up the mess! Even if it was Ben who might have been monitoring it, I would think they would have other Others to fill in...it seems like a pretty important security apparatus especially if there are Hostiles around.
BTW: Happy St. Patrick's Day! Remember...don't drink and drive!
I agree maven. I'm just trying to cover up for the writters not thinking of it.
But Shhhhhhhhh. ;)
Okay going on that idea that Cerebus and the fence were designed as security we need to think about two things:
1. Are they designed to work together or against one another? And if together, can Cerebus get through easily or does the fence need to be deactivated?
2. Fenris is right, it seems awful elaborate for polar bears and animals, so what is it for, and why is it so lethal? Why not a shock or a noise? Instant death seems a bit harsh.
k
Also Guiness Marmite Rocks. :D
Guinness marmite is elusive...how did you ever get your hands on that!? ;)
Hi All,
I want to think that a security fence breach triggers some kind of alert too, mainly because that's how it works in real life. But, so far it looks as if the A-team has gotten in free of charge. Since Ben is sick they might be under-manned at their surveillance posts, like Fenris said. But who knows, next week the A-team could be looking through the bushes at Jack, and hear the proverbial "chk-chk" of a pump action firearm next to their ears. :o) The Others do have a way with sneakiness.
Was that cartoon the one where the Blue Danube is the song and the ducks swim and quack along to it? One of my personal favorites.
Good point about CS and Claire's baby song, etc. Either TPTB are giving us lots of little hints about Christian, or they are leading us off the real path with a total red herring.
How anyone can say that this show is dead, I just do not understand. I tend to agree with DocArzt, that the people who think that "Lost is Losing It" are the ones who can't really handle all the zillion bits of mystery, intrigue, clues, etc. The amount of attention this show requires each week (not to mention back-checking on earlier episodes as well) for catching clues, must be a lot for some people to commit to. And I guess that it must not be the kind of show that people can follow if they are not into clue and fact checking. It's like Sherlock Holmes times infinity! :o)
EF: Like your catch re Claire remembering her Dad singing to her. That might be a clue to Christian being DI and might fit in with my crazy theory that Christian is Jacob! Thanks! LOL
Capcom: I agree with you (and DocArtz) that this show isn't dead. There's just some people out there that want to watch TV to be purely entertained and not think. To really appreciate LOST one has to work a little harder to grasp the full meaning of it...nothing is as it seems. This is the only show I take notes on when I watch! LOL Too many people give up on things that are not easy.
EF: good pick up on the C.S. and the lullaby question. I remember catching that clue too, but had forgotten about it. Guess I need to start taking notes too!
Maven- I'm right there with you thinking C.S. is Jacob! Wouldn't that be a hoot!
I think most of us agree that LOST is better than ever right now, but I do think the fans of the show are becoming polarized. I feel like the show is clipping along- giving answers, asking more questions, dropping clues like never before- but if you're not into that, the show has got so seem a bit boring (or frustrating) far as the mystery goes. I just hope that ABC and TPTB are listening to us and those like us and not the other group of fans.
Just popping in to say Hello!
Sign #77 you are obsessed with LOST. After nine days without internet access it takes you only slightly over 2 hours to make your first LoCo post on returning home.
Can't wait to catch up and chime in. See you all soon, and definitely tomorrow!
Memphish: We missed your great insights so much! Hurry back!
I think #78 is hanging around just waiting for someone to post so you can comment, too! LOL
What if Locke was the driver of the truck involved in Claire's accident?
I like Claire now. She had always seemed kind of whiny to me. I was impressed with how she had an idea for getting off the island and actually acted on it. She also asked questions and got answers. So unLost-like.
When my daughter heard Patchy say, "The Locke I remember was par...," she thought he was going to say "parthenogenesized."
All right LoCos. I've waded through the pre-Par Avion stuff and have a few comments.
One of the most intriguing questions from the previous 2 threads was the one Scoutpost raised about the sub. Why do the people intentionally going to the Island arrive by sub while everyone else crashes there? A second question would be how did the Others get their boats that didn't crash, i.e. the one Michael left on and the one in SIASL? I don't have answers, but I really like that question.
ThinBlueMine, I don't know if you're still working on your Temple Mount Theory, but I like the tie-in with Eko and Josiah. I also wanted to ask you if it is worth listening to Cuse and Lindeloff on The Treatment? I've got 45 archived podcasts in iTunes post-vacation. Should I add one more?
The big thing that's bugging me right now is Ben's plan to get Jack to be his surgeon. If his reason for coming to the Swan was his tumor then why did he make up the whole Henry Gale crap? He had to know that lying to Jack was not the way to ingratiate himself with Jack. Amused2behere suggested that the plan was bigger--to get J,K and S so that he could convince Jack to stay permanently, but again, why the giant Henry Gale lie. Why dig the hole as deep as possible to convince Jack? If it weren't for Jack recognizing his opportunity to spring Kate and Sawyer, he wouldn't have agreed to the surgery. Though I guess we didn't get to see Ben's entire 2 week plan and should cut him some slack. But why would you allow someone "not on the list" to cut your back open? This part drives me crazy!
I want to know who has been in the Pearl Station. It appears that our Ben related Others did not know about Desmond and his sailboat. This makes me think it is someone we haven't met or haven't suspected yet. Could it even be Danielle? Maybe it's the infamous Jacob himself and there is a need to know thing in place and that even Ben didn't need to know that. Ben was surprised about the sailboat way back in The Glass Ballerina.
Fenris mentioned the vaccination. I think it's interesting that the only people we've seen use the vaccination are Desmond and Aaron. We've never seen any of Ben's people use it on themselves.
2 final points in this long, long, post.
Dedjezter said in reference to Danielle: I think she is just a crazy woman with no real direction in life. I had friends like that and it didn't make them smoke monsters... lol This is so funny I almost snorted beer out my nose which would not have made me lol and would have been a waste of good beer. I'm not completely back from vacation after all.
And jgz350 said back an entire thread ago: It sure is quiet around here without memphish- Well, quiet time is over! I'm back from not too far from Tallahassee where I'm happy to report I did not contract anything requiring antibiotics. I'll be back in the am LoCos.
Over at DarkUFO-Screencaps there's a discussion about whether or not Charlie palmed the rescue note before Claire released the bird. I rewatched the scene on my HDTV frame by frame. There is definitely a piece of white paper in Charlie's palm as shown in the screencap. And to my ancient eyes it does look like there is still white paper attached to the bird's leg with a yellow twist tie. So it's either a production error, or Charlie somehow switched notes. One would think he wouldn't want to get off the island now. He'd want to be near Desmond who could constantly look out for him. And he's finally clean and has a developing relationship/family with Claire. Interesting find.
lostit - I like the idea that whoever was driving the truck that hit Claire is probably someone we know – Locke or some other Lostie. It would be yet another connection.
zort - An interesting theory, but Cyanide wouldn't explain the hemhorraging from the ears or the sound we heard.
Okay, I've waded through them all.
First things first: Congrats Admin and Mrs. Admin. What a cute way to make the announcement!
Zort, I don't think Patchy died by cyanide because I think if he'd had cyanide he'd have killed himself back at The Flame after his failed attempt to shoot himself.
But I do think Patchy committed suicide to some degree. I think he deliberately stayed between the pylons to cause his death. I think he could have passed through with only minor damage, but stayed until he died. I also think he wanted to die at his own hands instead of those of Ms. Eye-for-an-Eye sheriff.
Tim, I love your avi!
Good morning Locos.
memphish... I have to agree with you on Patchy deliberately staying between the pylons resulting in his death. All the more reason that there should have been some kind of alert to the Others that the perimeter was breached.
http://www.archive.org/download/TLCPod16/Finished.mp3
Podcast is up!!! Word!!!
Good Morning Locos!
NEW POST!!!!
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