In tonight's episode Ben tries to persuade a determined Locke to call off his destructive plan by offering him some of the secrets of the island, and Kate's reunion with Jack does not go off as planned when she discovers that he has made a deal with "The Others."
Wednesday, March 21, 2007
THE MAN FROM TALLAHASSEE - SEASON 3, EPISODE 13
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 358 of 358You know it's funny because somewhere I read that TPTB- DL/CC had said once that they hoped people wouldn't be disappointed when they found out how Locke ended up in the wheelchair because it was sort of mundane. How could a father shoving his son out of an 8 story high window be disappointing?
amused2bhere said...
Wonder why Charlie's mom used that for a middle name? She said he was "special"...maybe he came out of a wish box too.
That really gives a lot of validity to the statement "be careful what you wish for" LOL
memphish said...
So Diggitydirge, do you think Ben intended for Juliet to kill Pickett then? Was that part of his master plan as well? Jack was already under the impression the others planned to kill Sawyer, so Jack would need to make a move or let them die.
Absolutely. Pickett was a sacrifice to keep the illusion going. Ben is a master of information (evident by his need to watch and listen to everyone and the research he has done on the losties) and how to use it his advantage. I think the only thing Ben didn't plan was Colleen, Cole, whatever, getting killed. But, Ben used it to manipulate/taunt Pickett into wanting to kill, or thinking it was OK to kill Sawyer. Why? To get Jack in the operating room.
I think the question we need to back and ask ourselves is: "If Ben is as smart as TBTP are making him out to be, would he really believe that Jack became compelled to help him and was going to conduct a surgery without doing anything fishy? If he is this smart, no possible way he thought that.
I don't want to write a book, but go back to the comments for the epi where Juliet gets branded, and the epi where Kate and Sawyer escape. I wrote my theory back then and still think it will hold true.
Hell, I think Ben is even trying to make Alex hate him so that she would help Kate and Sawyer. Sawyer even recognized that it was very convenient for her to be there all of sudden with a boat?
Something Alex said really stood out to me tonight. "That's what my father does. Manipulates people. He makes you think it's your idea but it is his."
Ben has obviously read Sun Tzu's the art of war and beleives in it. "So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will win hundred times in hundred battles. If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you win one and lose the next. If you do not know yourself or your enemy, you will always lose."
Has anyone mentioned the look on Anthony Cooper's face when he saw Locke? It was kind of an "oh crap" look. Funny, I wish Locke would just pull out his gun right there and shoot him.
Memphish, don't hate me but...
I really was glad that Kate didn't kiss Jack. It would have been so trashy of her to do that, in the light of what she just shared with Sawyer (ahem, I mean James). And little does she know that Jack saw her and Sawyer cuddled up together after they had sex in the bear cage. (ok, I totally weirded myself out by typing that. ew.)
I did love the Jack whisper "I'll come back for you", however. Melt my little heart!
Diggity- yeah they really played the angle that Ben is a master manipulator. Like someone said above, he is really steps ahead of everyone else.
Scoutpost: LOL my thought exactly! I was waiting for Locke to go postal and just start beating the kidney out of him!
Go Johnny, go!
Knowing Locke, he'll probably pull up a chair and try to have a heart to heart with him right before he unties him and lets AC go.
Wonder if Maven will get on tonite? The epi just ended in CA. It's hard to stay away after that episode. Who else is out west? Seems there aren't many of us. Where's Dennis?
Want to comment in full rachel font but do not want to be rude...just finished on the west coast.
Holy moly that has to be the best episode ever.....I actually screamed 3 times during the broadcast
As for the "uh-oh" look on Cooper's face:
I wonder what he'd been told about why he was being tied up in that room? That the grand leader was coming to see him (and then he sees John?), or maybe that his worst nightmare was coming true? or perhaps that now he would be reaping what he sowed, and then John shows up. Cooper probably soiled himself!
"Clean up on aisle 4!"
LOL amused!
That would be too funny if they told him the grand leader was coming and then he sees John pop his head in- holy cow- what would be going thru his mind?!
"uh-oh. I'm a dead man."
All I can say right now...OMG...what an episode.
Skimmed over the zillion comments...my head is spinning. Think I'll sleep on this one! Glad I took lots of notes! LOL
There's still Michael Emerson's comment that the Other's may be a "little bit different"- wonder if they all have some sort of power to make the box work and make their wishes come true. Maybe those are the people on Jacob's list. Of course there's the problem of Locke. Oh well. And if they are so intrigued by Locke's healing, then why aren't they bugging Rose too? I mean her healing is just as significant as Locke's. Did Ben not research that far?
Hi Maven....bye Maven. Sleep well.
This is not that big a deal, but when did Locke learn that Henry's real name was Ben? Did Kate tell him that? When Locke was in Ben's room, I kept waiting to hear him say Henry and have Ben correct him. Not that it really matters, just curious.
All I can say right now (in my tired, stunned state)...Ben is the master manipulator. He planned everything from the beginning.
Maybe the "magnificent man" is really the Box...the recruits wanted a magnificent man to be the one running the operation on the island (make everything worthwhile), so that's what the Box showed them. WOW...the Hieronymous theory (originally started by Picsel) could be it! It's exciting, but a little disappointing, too. I kinda want more than a magic box to be the answer.
More later...I don't know how you east coasters stay up so late! hahaha
Well guess I'm off to bed too. See you all in the am. (or for some of you- later in the am.)
another Cooper thought:
"No. Frakking. Way."
On Rose's healing. She told Bernard that she was healed by the psychic dude, right? So wouldn't it be on record that she was healed? Perhaps they don't know she wasn't healed before the plane crash...for that matter, all we know is she is feeling better, there's been no medical corroboration of her cancer disappearing.
I'm just sayin', that's all...
One last thing...Jack has got to be the most gullible person in the world! He believes Ben's word? Ben's really going to let a surgeon and fertility doctor leave? I don't think so!
Now..night all.
Here's my observations after watching a second time:
John Locke - The eternal con: Good god man, will it ever end? A kidney, conned not to push the button, conned to take a cop into a pot farm. I'm sure I am missing more. Wouldn't you get to a point where you decide to be the eternal pessimist and never beleive anyone again?
MR Echo's famous comment: do not mistake coincidence for fate....keeps coming back to John
Healing Powers: There is definetly something very strange about how the islands heals certain people, but not others. Remember that Rose was also saved by landing on the island, and doesn't want to leave. John is not the only one. But why did Ben even get the tumor in the first place? Weird!
Daddy issues: We already knew Locke had extreme Daddy issues, but the theme keeps presenting over and over. Jack, Claire, Locke, Kate, Sawyer, Alex, Sun & Jin, Desmond with Penny's dad, Hurley. The theme pops up every other epi. What could people's daddy issues have to do with why they are on this island, or why they were all on the same plane? Not sure what to think here.
I do not think smokey took the form of Locke's dad when he was in the cell at the end. TPTB would have way too much trouble explaining that one. I think it was actually Locke's dad. Locke's dad disappered to Mexico and was never seen again. He also conned people out of large sums of money. Was it possible he tried to con Dharma/the others out of money and that's how he ended up on the island? Is it possible his dad pulled a con to make the others beleive he should be a memeber of the island, and they figured it out? Did Locke's dad con people for the purpose of helping keep the island funded?
The box: I think this is Ben manipulating again. Ben knows from his research how Locke ended up in the chair and he asks John to imagine a box on the island, and whatever John images appears in the box. Wouldn't it be a likely guess based on the info that Locke would want to see his dad again for revenge? Locke wouldn't want to leave the island, wouldn't ask for a material item. Ben is playing Locke's belief in the island against him. The exact scene goes "But you John. You have already made that committment. I can show you things. Things I know you want to see very badly. Let me put it in a way you can understand. Picture a box." I don't buy it.
I remember something about Hurley and Lenny talking in the mental institution from season one and found the transcirpt from numbers:
HURLEY: C'mon, Lenny, give me something. Anything. Where'd you get the numbers? Is that why you're here, Lenny? Is it because of the numbers? Did they do something to you? Because I think they did something to me. I think they turned me into a jinx -- bad news to everyone around me. And when I tell people I think I'm the cause they, they, they look at me like I'm nuts. They don't believe me. But I know, ever since I won the lottery with those numbers.
LENNY: You used those numbers to play the lottery?
HURLEY: Uh, yeah.
LENNY: Well, you shouldn't have done that. You've opened the box.
The electricity: I don't think it was a big deal that Ben wouldn't answer this question. We already knew they had power and running water from the hatches. Sayid has a wiring diagram that illistrates it. Still I wonder where it is coming from, but I don't think it was a hige secret that Ben didn't want to reveal.
I cannot believe how late most of you stayed up! Of course, y'all probably can't believe how early I'm up and on TLC.
Diggity, great memory on Lenny and the box.
I think it really is coming down to Ben being the master con man. Alex's line about Ben's manipulations is key.
Here's my take on Danielle in that vein. I think that Ben convinced Danielle to give Alex to him, to keep her "safe" perhaps. The rest of Danielle's life on the island has been her stuggle to reconcile herself to the idea that she willingly gave away her daughter. Maybe killing the rest of her team is how she dealt with them. She avoids Ben and his people and Alex because "a deal's a deal" when it comes to Ben and she did in fact agree to give Alex up.
Oh, and amused2behere and other fan girls. I'm glad there was no kissing last night too. First while Kate et al were in the bushes I was screaming at Jack not to kiss Juliet. At least I got my wish there.
Then Jack purposely sat far away from Kate and didn't touch her. I thought their body language was very appropriate given "What Kate Did" in the bear cage, the fact that Jack knew, the fact that Kate didn't think Jack knew, etc. I kept waiting for Jack to tell her he knew which would have been crass, but no, my gentleman Jack came through, sort of. Now Kate thinks he knows but was told.
I still can't decide if I think Ben told Kate to do "what she did" or did he wish that something would happen to make Jack agree to do the surgery and then when he saw what he saw sent Alex to use the intercom to alert Jack. And why would Alex help Ben at that point? What was the deal with that intercom? Aarrgghh!
Next week, we get a great Sun face.
How does Locke know Anthony Cooper is from Tallahassee? Was it in the information the private detective gathered for him back in Deus Ex Machina?
Good Morning Locos-
Memphish, actually I'm surprised you didn't wake up in the middle of the night with some more interesting comments. And you know you got it bad when you go to sleep and have a dream you are on that godforsaken island. If this was the 'game changer' Damon and Carlton were refering to, I would have to agree with them. I really like the direction Lost is heading in. Oh and I laugh at all the weak and wannabee Losties that have abandoned our beloved show. I knew Lost wasn't losing it, TPTB were just setting us up for the 'game changer'.
I need to watch that again and again. I believe there are alot of clues in Ben's crib. Heck, MTV out to see if they can get Ben's place on Cribs.
Another thing I noticed was Ben's comment about Locke and communion with the island. Another reference to the Catholic religion, which I think is very cool. It made me think about the book Communion and one of my all time favorite shows, 'The X-Files'. How cool would it be if Mulder and Scully time traveled to the island? I know, I'm crazy but heck it seems that almost anything goes on this island. Has there ever been a X-Files reference on the show? I know, I'm reaching, but my head is still humming from this FANTASTIC episode of Lost.
Morning jgz350,
Agree about Cribs. Ben's place was a little cluttered for my tastes. Not a spare square (or octagon) of space anywhere.
There were a lot of spiritual references again. Communion was a big one.
One of the things that's got me thinking was how Locke called Ben a Pharisee. The Pharisees were a group of leaders of the Jews who play a prominent role in the gospels. Jesus spars with them over and over again and they are the ones who plot his death at the hands of the Romans.
A few things about Pharisees: Pharisees were people who followed the letter of the law meticulously, but not so much the spirit of the law. They were harsh taskmasters who loved little. Jesus called them whitewashed tombs; they looked pretty on the outside, but held death. Jesus said they led the people astray from life to death. Their lives centered around rule following and of looking down on sinners who were anyone not as "perfect" as they were. Their earthly status was supremely important to them. In other words, it sounds a lot like Ben who gets others to do his dirty work. Sounds a lot like what Mikhail said too about Kate being unable to understand them.
diggitydirge said:I think the question we need to back and ask ourselves is: "If Ben is as smart as TBTP are making him out to be, would he really believe that Jack became compelled to help him and was going to conduct a surgery without doing anything fishy? If he is this smart, no possible way he thought that.
I have to say I agree with you here. I was thinking the same thing about the sub, and how Ben supposedly wanted John to blow it up. He starts talking about how he needed it to go a certain way so his people wouldn’t lose faith in him, but he said this right in front of Mr. Alpert (wouldn’t he qualify as one of Ben’s people). I just think that Ben is sly, and is spinning things to make it look like he planned them all along.
amused2bhere said:
another Cooper thought:
"No. Frakking. Way."
Hooray to BSG for introducing us to THAT word ;)
Memphish and amused…AGREED kissing=ewwwww
Okay here are my thoughts…let me just stop and eat this chicken for a second…Okay:
1. Yeah I go with Locke’s dad being the real Sawyer.
2. Even though it is a tad far fetched, I think that the “box” and Locke’s dad are part of the Smokey illusion as were the polar bear. Christian Shepard, Eko’s brother, Dave, Vincent, etc…
3. I kept thinking last night that the man from Tallahassee was Locke’s dad, but I am wondering, was it really Mr. Alpert that Ben was talking about? He seemed to show up just after Ben asked for this man.
4. I think after seeing Jack’s face last night, he may just kill Locke.
Also, GOOD MORNING, and I am tired.
Another black/white reference that I noticed last night, when Ben told Locke that he had eaten most of the dark meat. That must have been some tasty DI chicken!
Memphish, as for your shipper comments, I was hoping like heck that Jack was going to invite Jules in for a night cap. Heck, I know I would have-
As for Jules makeup, I really didn't noticed that as my eyes were drawn to something else. :-)~
As for Jack not kissing Kate, that's the play I would have made. However, I would have made a crack about Kate and Sawyer's 'Love Cage'.
Good morning Locos. One word for last night's episode: wow!
Going to catch up now -- it's gonna take a while, I can't believe all of the comments. Well, I can because the episode was great. Catch y'all on the rebound.
A couple of more thoughts now that coffee is improving my brain functons:
1. If that really is John's father at the end of the episode...HOW LONG HAVE THEY HAD HIM THERE? They lost communication with the outside world, so are we to assume that they captured him and have been holding him (for a couple of weeks), just in case John decided to show up at their base and make trouble? So do they have a room full of all the daddys of all the folks with daddy issues just in case? Either that or Ben really is a super genius-manipulator and really has been determining what everyone will do all along. IE Locke not pushing the button, thus causing the implosion, the loss of communication, blowing up the sub, etc. I dunno, no matter what kind of manipulator you are, it just seems like a lot of variables to control to make all of that happen.
2. Ben says that once the sub left it woud not have been able to get back, and with communications down no one would be able to find the island. Hmmm...someone must have coordinates for where it is located. Even if you can not locate it on radar, or by other means due to cloaking or electromagnetic fields, etc...you could come close I am sure using coordinates that must be on record somewhere in the real world.
3. Piggybacking on that...Penny Widmore had people in a plane that located something. When are they going to let us in on that..huh, huh?
Sheesh, sorry about that book I just wrote there.
if the sub is the only way of the island, then where did they send michael and walt.
bigdog said...
if the sub is the only way of the island, then where did they send michael and walt.
Holy smokes, good point. Unless they mean, now that the boat sailed off with Michael and Walt, the sub is the only way left to get off the island. Also, I am not sure they were intending for the boat to never come back...it left before the hatch imploded...right?
Ange asked: So do they have a room full of all the daddys of all the folks with daddy issues just in case?
Great question. I was trying to add something to answer it, but it makes me go in circles.
There's a new Doc Jensen up. Maybe that will help me.
New theory -- Locke's Dad is a computer in disguise which is why Locke can't leave him alone. Or computers are Locke's daddy in disguise which is why Locke can't leave them alone.
memphish...YOU are a genius! I just shared your "new theory" with the woman at the desk next to me, and she is still laughing.
Good Morning Everyone!
I love the smell of C4 in the morning :)
memphish you are too funnie, and I agree with you, a computer in disguise, so that's the real 'game changer'.
Can't wait to read Wood's take on this episode. I'm sure you will let me know when it's up, memphish.
Previous Tallahassee references...
From What Kate Did
[The guy in line behind her starts talking, but we can only see the back of him.]
GUY IN LINE: Tallahassee? I spent a week in Tallahassee one night. It's all strip malls and waffle houses. What's a pretty girl like you going to do down in Tallahassee?
KATE: I'm sure I'll find something.
GUY IN LINE: I'll bet you've got family down there, huh?
KATE: Actually, I'm just visiting.
[Reveal of the Marshal as the guy in the line.]
From Lockdown
SAWYER: Okay, I'll call you with the aspirin and raise you with a bottle of Amoxicilin.
JACK: Do you even know what Amoxicilin is?
SAWYER: You may have been to Phuket, Doc, but I've been to Tallahassee. [Jack looks like he doesn't understand] Let's just say something was burning and it wasn't from the sunshine.
Morning all (after a dream-filled LOST night!) Everyone has pretty much commented on things I've been mulling over. Some more observations:
1. Strange that the Disability person asks Locke for his "Biological parents". Could it be that Cooper is not really his father?
2. Sayid sees Kate's reaction when they spy Jack and Juliette being friendly. He knows her feelings for Jack.
3. Clothes hanging with clothespins drying. What? No dryers? LOL
4. Re the "No Soliciters" sign on Locke's door. I don't think a warning sign will stop them!
5. I think the man from Talahasee would be Cooper. Ben has two guys in his room. I think Dr. Alpert was in there with Tom.
6. What are all the kids safe from?
7. Jack thinks he's doing something noble by making the deal with Ben and going home. He thinks he's going to bring the cavalry back and rescue everyone. Also, glad Kate and Jack didn't kiss, but his whisper to her that he'll come back for her was very sweet.
8. Giant hamsters! LOL
9. Ben is definitely the leader of the Hostiles/Others. He calls them "my people" and is trying to keep everyone happy there. He says the sub is an illusion to give them the sense they can leave, but it doesn't work.
10. Agreed that "the box" was just a metaphor since Locke worked for a box company. But it is the core of the island's power and Locke seems to understand it without knowing about it. He is not the one in the wheelchair, Ben is.
11. The shot when Locke opened the sub was very hatch-like.
12. Ben is the master-manipulator. But there are so many factors when working with humans...how can he really know how everyone will react to things?
13. Good point, Ange...I was wondering how long Cooper was on the island. He went missing right after throwing Locke out the window. (Talk about Daddy issue!) The Detectives told Locke he could be anywhere in the world. Did Ben's master con start then?
Sorry to go on and on...
WV: cabbxxie!
Morning LoCos, do we all have episode hangovers today?! :o)
Yikes Dennis, do we have any Tallahasseans here to confirm on whether it is skeevy like Las Vegas???
That's perfect Memphish, about Locke's dad being a computer. :-D
My vote for what Cooper thought when he saw Locke both times, "I'm boned!", a-la Bender on Futurama. I have to say that it felt vwery gratifying to see Cooper tied and roughed up finally.
Either M&W did or did not get away via '325' -- or -- they were not intended to get away at all via another one of Ben's "promises that are not really promises". I was thinking while he was talking to Locke about promises, that it's very easy to make a big promise, when you know that, via circumstances, there is no way that you can be held to keeping it.
Haven't they been saying that the sub is the only way to come back? I gathered that you could get out via '325' or the sub, but you could only find your way back via the sub hearing the underwater ping of the sonar directional signal.
Good points Maven. #3--since the sky turned purple, their dryers don't work. :o) #8--I like how even though Ben is obviously near genius in the psychology of humans and leadership, that he has a great sense of sardonic humor. #10--I agree also that Ben was just putting The Box story into imagery that could be easily assimilated, to make his point quickly. #12--I think that Ben totally calculates things and then takes his shot, and for the most part has predicted the "textbook case" reactions that he will get out of people when he works them. Most of the time people do react emotioanlly in predictable ways, but not always you're right.
Capcom: I don't think that Walt and Michael are going anywhere. Just like Locke, Walt has special powers attuned to the island, and Ben wants to use them both. Ben seems to make promises he can't or won't keep. Alex knows her "father" manipulates people into doing what he wants while they think they are the ones in control. The Walt and Michael story is not over.
One would think, though, since Ben was born on the island he would be able to harness it's powers (like Locke, Rose, etc.) and not get this pesky spinal tumor.
maven said...
3. Clothes hanging with clothespins drying. What? No dryers?
They must have donated their one working dryer to the Swan hatch!
capcom said...
Either M&W did or did not get away via '325' -- or -- they were not intended to get away at all
I'm thinking they "found rescue" in the form of the sub that was waiting for them on heading 325.
Capcom: Guess the Others just want that fresh island breeze in their clothes! LOL
(off for some errands. BBL)
Don't Miss It!
Locke: Explosion Tour '04
Coming to a Station near you.
That's what I tend to think about M&W also, Maven and Engineer. I bet that we will learn a sad story about them not making it out for whatever reason, in the future. Either they were lied to and met at '325', or they just dumped the boat in a storm. That would satisfy me, as long as Ben explains all about Walt to us, in another magic-box-like description.
And hey, wasn't what Alex said about Ben being a manipulator rather revealing and straight-forward for a Lost script? Sheesh, we never get anything spelled out for us like that very often!
Engineer27, Nice idea about Walt and Michael reaching the sub at 325. But by that point the pinging would have been stopped. Where are Walt and Michael? It is so pesky that actors grow.
Also, will there be a special Christmas display by Locke?
Maven, great spot on the clothes. I figure they ran out of Downy and had to resort to actual fresh air to get that scent.
Still catching up on all the coments...
ExperimentalFilm said... oh, and i heard ----- ---- ---- . but idk where i heard it .
PLEASE be more careful with the SPOILERS. You can see all of the SPOILER RULES here.
memphish said... Also, will there be a special Christmas display by Locke?
He'll be performing a beautiful rendition of "Come All Ye Faithful" with real gunfire.
Happy day after LOST day everyone! Working on catching up on comments but just wanted to say...
diggitydirge said...
John Locke - The eternal con: Good god man, will it ever end?
...this made me laugh so hard! No kidding, someone slap Locke hard upside the head. Oh and memphish- love the new avatar!
Engineer27, I can't wait until the 4th of July. I'm sure Locke's 1812 Overture (which is Russian not American) will definitely have real cannons.
Go Bruins!
Go Tigers!
Go Vols!
Go So. Ill b/c I don't like Kansas.
The man in the box is real, not a figment of Smokey. All I have to say on that.
Where did this idea that the guys inm the artic are in a plane come from. They were clearly in one of those Arctic testing station things that look like old WWII barrack facility. The also used what appeared to me to be a land line phone. It wasn't satalite or cell so I make the assumtion that it was a land line. Could this be the place that Hanso went when he left the Map in TLE??? Hmmmmm
Kate/Jack kiss thank gahd they didn't.
Was it just me or did Alex leave Ben's crib el natural and show up at the swings where they had Sayid all hussied up w/ lipstick and eyeshadow and such. Talking all soft and what not. Maybe Ryan has a thing for her and she had to dress the part to convince.
Why didn't she ask anyone if Karl was with them and okay, unless she has already met up with Karl somewhere else.
Danielle needs to get her gears in motion and lay the smack down on Ben. Ben says he can't do any of those things so that he can remain the leader, but what happens when Danielle shoots him in the gut (since thats where all the kill shots go... lol)
Back soon
So Locke is the High Priest of the Island -- it's very own Aaron!?! And he doesn't want anyone else to leave. Why? And he doesn't want to be able to cheat by having electricty and chicken, yet he seemed to eat all that Swan station food, didn't he?
Seriously, why doesn't Locke want anyone else to be able to leave? Why can't he just stay? He doesn't like Jack, at all (and the feeling is mutual), why not just let him leave?
Seriously, you're right, Locke indeed gets conned ONCE AGAIN! His anger issues are getting heaped on, and now even by Ben! But he has to appreciate seeing his evil old man bound and gagged.
Hey guys! I haven't had time to re-watch and really gather my thoughts but I've been lurking and my head is spinning...You guys just don't quit do you?!
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is that the first time alex called ben dad? and why did she not want locke to know or think that she hated him.
good question ded, where is karl he should have been there long before our losties.
as someone said earlier great work by sayid with the you look like your mother.
Ok here's the real story- LOST is really just another episode of Survivor- the Others and the Losties are the two tribes and Ben is Richard Hatch manipulating them all to be the last person on the island and win the million dollars. Jeff Probst will probably wander out of the jungle soon...and it won't be long before Ben is doing time for tax fraud.
Paolo is Jeff Probst. Maybe that's it. Which would make Nikki that girl who was on Survivor that Jeff dates now whose name I forget. BTW, Rupert, my all-time favorite survivor has written a book and will me in Memphis signing it tomorrow.
Ah Rupert- he was a good one.
Going to read Doc Jensen....
I liked Old Man Rudy the Navy Seal the best. He should have won! He has a book of "Rudy-isms" too.
While we're on the subject of Locke manipulation......could the projection of Walt saying "Don't push the button,the button is bad", have been the Others trying to stop the button pushing way back when? Mind you, I still have no idea why they would want the 'sky to turn purple' etc., but it's just a thought if they did want it.
Yeah a classic Jack face to end the series.
Capcom, I like what you said about Walt, but remember even before Walt left on the raft he told Locke "don't open it." And I just realized that Locke didn't have a problem with the raft people leaving, but he does with the sub? I'm so confused.
Good point about the raft leaving memphish. Maybe he let it leave because trying to sabotage it would have been too obvious (since Walt had already destroyed one raft attempt).
After read Doc Jensen, one thing popped into my head. Ben was born on the island (one of the few as he said). So who are his parents and what were they doing on the island? Ben is around 50, so it had to be pre Dharma.
LuckyGuyLikeMe said...Also, did anyone else notice that when Locke went in the sub, he was completely dry, but when he was walking back up the dock towards Jack and everyone else, he was soaking wet?
I also noticed that in the final scene his face was really bruised, and I don't think it was earlier. I assumed that the people escorting Jack and Juliet to the sub had a little "contact" with Locke before they brought him back to Ben's place, but the scene got edited out.
I like the idea that maybe Locke blew up something else other than the sub. Kinda goes along with his "screw everyone else, I have my own agenda" way of thinking.
No. Frakking. Way.
Well I hope that was a good repeat of CSI:NY and Medium because those people sure missed out on the best TV last night.
Hey, all! Still assimilating all the great comments and links.
More thoughts: Locke is like Job. How many times can he be screwed and still have faith? Is Ben trying to break him?
Why was Locke wet when he came back from the sub? I like the theory that he submerged the sub for later use and only blew up the end of the dock. I looked at that scene again with my Media Center and it looks like it's the center of the end of the dock that is blowing up, not the left side where the sub was. Also, the debris from the explosion only looks like pieces of dock.
Memphish & Dedjezter, love the new avatars!
dedjezter said:Where did this idea that the guys inm the artic are in a plane come from. They were clearly in one of those Arctic testing station things that look like old WWII barrack facility.
It comes from VERY little coffee and getting up at 6 AM;) sorry about that. However, they detected an electromagnetic anomoly, which I assume is the island. My main point was, that I just can't see how it is possible that no one in Hanso, DHARMA, et al has zero idea how to find the island without the beacons that have now been disabled (per Ben saying once the sub is gone no one will be able to get back to the island). AND that I am getting impatient that they have told us nothing more about that Penny Widmore station.
Hey all you LoCos
I'm kind of thinking that Alex was a part of Ben's con. She plants the idea that Ben is a manipulator and also Ben had planted the idea that Alex hated him earlier. So Locke would probably believe a seemingly innocent young lady. Like someone said Alex called Ben dad she may be angry with him but I don't think she hates him.
So when Ben is talking about the box and he's working on Locke's insecruities wanting to be special and important he thinks he's being manipulated til he sees dad and now he believes.
Of course I could be wrong but I think she worked him.
luckyguylikeme said... I believe like a lot of others that Tom is the gay character. After hearing the producers mention that the gay character would be in last night's episode, I was so afraid that when Tom showed up at Ben's house and came somewhat uninvited into Ben's bedroom, that he'd have his shirt off or something. I hope they don't reveal it in any way like that lol.
That a funny, but scary, thought. And, what if it isn't Tom? Tom seems to be the obvious (because of previous comments he has said) but it's just like TPTB to throw a wrench in and totally catch us off guard.
ewwwww, Tom without a shirt!
Thanks, Luckyguy. I'll head over to Dark UFO's. I thought Ben was looking at the clock, too.
Another thought of mine on Ben is that he and a few others are the remaining desendants of the island after the Dharma purge and that the purge is what caused him to his ability to heal quickly.
Ben and or Jacob are recruiting people to save and or repopulate whats left of their people.
Jason said...
1) Someone mentioned an elephant statue in Ben's home. This is the Hindu god, Ganesha. Interesting stuff on wkipedia "Wherever there is Ganesha, there is Success and Prosperity and "Wherever there is Success and Prosperity there is Ganesha."
Ok, off to Dark UFO's
That is very interesting. I've been thinking that in addition to
"daddy issues", there is a strong theme of money issues (and possibly that "money is the root of all evil". We have Hurley and the curse, con-men, very rich men (Christian, Cooper, Sun's dad, etc.)
happy Day After, fellow LoCo's!
Great comments, one and all. This is such a fun episode to dissect.
I think I finally have an explanation for why Ben might have wanted them to stop pushing the button: Ben wanted the island to be cut off from the outside world.
WhY? Because he wants the Others to really accept life on the island as their home. He knew communication would cease, and the sonar too. Once "his people" adjusted to the fact that they were really there permanently, they would come to accept their new circumstances and finally "make the committment" to fully invest their lives there. Ben doesn't care about going to the outside world, the island has been the only home he's ever known. And he's lonely. He's tired of dealing with people who are just biding their time until somehow they get permission to go "home". If they can't leave, then the Island will become Home to them (or so Ben hopes).
Plausible?
Great theory amused2behere. And I love that Kate face.
I guess you might argue that Locke wants the same thing, for everyone to stop trying to go home and to discover the "reason" the island brought "each one of [them]" there.
I can't buy AC joining Mittelos. I mean if he's on the list, but Jack, Kate, Sayid aren't, then I wouldn't want to be on the list.
I can't decide who I think manifested him though, Ben or Locke. I need to re-read part of The Third Policeman and think some more about that.
Anyone confirmed the clock thing yet?
codysmom said: I've been thinking that in addition to "daddy issues", there is a strong theme of money issues (and possibly that "money is the root of all evil". We have Hurley and the curse, con-men, very rich men (Christian, Cooper, Sun's dad, etc.)
Could we go with a blanket, "Men of Power" for all the dads? Some are wealthy, some manipulate, some are military, some heal...all have power over others in a larger way than the avrerage person.
I'm rewatching and noticing that Peter Talbot is a nice looking young man which makes 2 nice looking young men that Locke has gotten killed now -- Boone and Peter Talbot. It could be 3 with Eddie from the last flashback, but I don't think Locke killed him because of some of the promo photos from scenes that didn't air. Maybe Claire should have worried more about Aaron being around Locke than around Charlie.
Another observation. Locke was almost Ben-like in his reading of people and their personalities in this episode. What he told Kate and Sayid about Jack saving people and having a reason for shaking Ben's hand is very astute, and of course, correct. Have any of Jack's plans ever worked though? I guess living where the water is did, but any others? Can't hide in the Hatch, the utterly ineffective "plan" in LTDA, and now I'll come back once I leave on the sub which was never going to work anyway.
LOL, Memphish, you don't know how close I was to changing my avatar to Cooper's ohno look! It was a real toss up between him and the "what the?" look of Kate.
Lots of great looks last night. Kate looking at Jack, Jack looking at Locke ("oh no you didn't!"), Tom looking at Locke ("How the heck...?"), Alex looking at Sayid, Locke looking at Cooper ("Dad?") and then Cooper looking at Locke. Or Benry looking at just about anybody.
LGLM, Yeah, that edges out the hamsters in the underground lair by a nose.
Here's another thing I noticed. The Hostile SWAT Team take down Kate and Sayid and ask Kate "who else is with you?" Jack says, "Just answer the question Kate," in a neutral tone of voice. Do you think he wanted to know if Sawyer was with her?
Admin, I hope we get a new post soon. Blogger and WV are lagging. BTW, I voted. How often can we vote?
the Box:
What if...Ben was alone on the island, the last survivor of whatever his people were. So he goes to the box and starts wishing for friends. What if ALL the others are there because Ben used the box to pull them from our world onto his island?
He had communication, so he saw some on the news, was able to research who he needed, could manipulate, etc.
Just a random thought...
Jason and amused2behere, Great ideas about the box. I like Jason's linking Desmond and the box and I really like that Ben wished for friends.
Maybe this is the Pandora's box connection. The moral of Pandora's box was to some extent, be careful what you wish for because there are unintended consequences such as letting all those bad things out into the world. So Ben wishes for friends, but it turns out they aren't all BFF because they want a life with baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet. I'm liking this.
Okay, Admin, I voted! Good luck!
Well, more and more it seems that Locke/Ben is going to be the most important character relationship. After only 80 days Locke know more than Ben's lifetime on the island! And Ben wants to know what Locke knows. (He wanted to know what Walt knew,too.)
Always look forward to all the new avatars after each episode!
So how did Ben know all that about Locke? Was it Smokey or the internet? Or the box?
Looking at my own avatar, I guess it could be from Daddy.
I want to think that the story of Lost is going somewhere, that it will connect and not just leave a bunch of dangly red herrings at the end of it all. Experimantalfilm had a list of questions a few comments ago, but I am wondering about a list of things that need to be connected:
1. Where does the Valenzetti Equation fit in to all of this? The numbers were important, and it is a big part of the mythos, or do I just keep telling myself that so I don't lament over all the time I spent on TLE this summer?
2. How is the DHARMA stuff going to connect with the good and bad, beign born on the island stuff?
3. How is time looping or whaever is happening to Des going to connect to past, present, and future?
4. How is the island now being in a state of disconnect going to affect the outside forces in this story?
5. What is going on with Penny Widmore?
6. How does the island heal people, and why only certain people?
7. What is the smoke monster, and how does it connect the the original DI?
8. Will we find out Danielle's true story (I am of the idea that we don't know her whole deal) and how it fits into the mythos of this whole thing?
It just seems like the story is being pulled in so many directions and on so many levels that I am just having a hard time laying them all out and trying to figure out how the layers will mesh. Now we have to think about a "force" or something that may or may not manifest the things you most want. How many layers until we start connecting for sures and for reals?
Memphish: Obviously, Daddy was roughed up and could have been made to talk. Again, though...how long has he been there?
Ok I wanted to throw in something about "the box" before I have to go out for a while.
When I looked up info on a hieronymous box, I remember reading the account of a field somewhere in the U.S. that was plagued with some sort of insects and the crop was dying. In a test of the heironymous box, scientists (or someone) put some insecticide in the box and something else, maybe one of the insects...anyway the field was something like 50 miles away and I don't remember the amount of time that elapsed, but maybe a day- they went to the field and all the insects were dead. If I remember correctly, the power of the box is a combo of wanting/willing something to happen plus some time travel plus some kind of telekinetic type stuff. Oh well I need to go back and read, because now I wonder if I'm saying this right.
Mainly, I'm recalling this to say that the powers of the hieronymous "box"- even if it isn't an actual box on the island- could have far reaching/into the real world reaching results- i.e. Juliet's hubby being killed by the bus. If Ben, or Jacob, or the island for that matter has this kind of control over things, then there is no telling what motive or reason they have for bringing people to the island, but they may have the power to do it.
Oh and about Rupert...
ARRRRRRGGGHHH
"If they want us to be pirates I'll be a pirate."
Wanders off to sell the other teams shoes and gear.
One of the best Survivor moments ever.
2 Cheers for Rupert
Hip Hip...
Hip Hip...
ange said...
BTW- hi ange!
1. Where does the Valenzetti Equation fit in to all of this? The numbers were important, and it is a big part of the mythos, or do I just keep telling myself that so I don't lament over all the time I spent on TLE this summer?
2. How is the DHARMA stuff going to connect with the good and bad, beign born on the island stuff?
Do you think that the DI realized the power of the island i.e. "the box" power, and knew that controlling it or channeling it could affect or reverse the Valenzetti equation and save the world? Maybe they wanted the "power" to be out of the hands of the Hostiles, tried to kill off the Hostiles, but in the end the Others/Hostiles still ended up with the power/knowledge.
I wonder if the box was ineffective after the DI, like maybe they disabled it somehow and then somehow Hurley playing the lotto numbers reopened the box- maybe everything that has happened, i.e. Cooper to the island happened since the Lotto numbers were played. ugh who knows!!!
how many places can a submarine show up pick up people and drop off people without someone in the states or wherever they go noticing. Its not like subs are a major source of travel for people
also i find it hard to believe that an island that can manifest your images has only 1 way to find it.
Ok I really have to go, but I can't stop-
What if Dharma did disengage or disable the power of the Box by entering the numbers into the Swan computer, or at least controlled or channelled the power. But Ben and others didn't know why or how they did it and but always wanted the power back. Then when Ben finds out about the Swan hatch and that people are pushing buttons from someone (maybe Rousseau?) he suspects this may be the key to getting the power back, goes there via capture, and cons John into thinking that John is special and that the buttons don't really do anything, when in actuality Ben knows that if the buttons aren't pushed, the box will be opened again. So again this would be a Ben con on Locke, making Locke think it is his idea to not press the buttons when in reality it is what Ben wanted. And now Ben has the hieronymous power back. eh well.
Hi scoutpost:) I like that idea that DI knew there was some kind of power to the island. That would also work with the whole "black rocks", Black Rock ship, magnetic properties, and a variable of the equation, etc... I sort of like the idea that the island has a power to make things happen...maybe they are all reading The Secret, who knows? I just need closure on something or to start seeing some real connections before I start (continue) getting muddled. As it is I try to post and confuse myself half way through, and then there is the word verification on top of that...sheesh! *waving good-bye for the afternoon* LOL who am I kidding it is only a 30 min drive home...see you all later.
dedjezter said...
Oh and about Rupert...
Wanders off to sell the other teams shoes and gear.
One of the best Survivor moments ever.
That was too funny and yes- is one of the best Survivor moments.
BTW- your avatar is great!
Ok now I'm leaving. BBL
Hi, Ange: Great list of questions still unanswered. Agree with you that we seem to be being pulled in so many directions. Is this time-travel, mystical island powers, or an experiment gone terribly wrong? It's probably everything. I trust that TPTB have a grand plan and it's being dribbled out piece by piece. They can't give us everything at once...have to sustain the interest over the coming seasons.
Scoutpost: Like your idea that the power of the Swan station could be central to controlling the "box" or powers of the island. Sort of like Pandora's Box being opened after the EMP. Ben would need Locke's understanding of the island to help control it. Locke's learned a lot in 80 days versus Ben's lifetime!
If you haven't rewatched the episode, go and rewatch the episode. It was even better the second time.
Scoutpost the thing about the bugs in the field. I think they put the machine in the field and it killed all the bugs for x miles around, not just right next to the box, but I really like your idea that it could cause the bird to fly into the window and the bus "accident."
Yes, Rupert going all pirate was Hubby's favorite thing too. I'm torn now between going to see him and watching basketball tomorrow.
Ange your list of questions is great. DI had to know something about the island from Alvar right since that's where the Black Rock ended up? Maybe Magnus used the Magic Box to communicate with Alvar?
Why John was wet on the dock. I think he scuttled the sub, and left the C4 with a fuse that blew once it was already under the water. It also looks like in the preview that Sayid is going to check it out, or maybe at least rescue the remnant of the Jesus stick which it appeared Locke left on the sub.
Why can't they fix the sonar thing? Can Sayid? Maybe that's what he is up to, and I have to say it kind of looked like one of those Survivor swimming challenges.
And finally, after listening to Ben's speech to Locke at the end, Ben doesn't really want Jack anymore and wouldn't have been opposed to killing him if his people hadn't heard him promise he could leave. I can't wait to find out what Ben's people are going to do with Kate, Jack, Sayid and Locke now.
I know that this is kind of convoluted but, it might even be that Ben and Cooper are conning Locke together and that Cooper is not even hurt, they just gave him some make-up and tied him up to fool Locke. I know, it's too complicated, and I don't really believe it myself. Just a thought.
capcom, I actually believe you're right, convoluted or not, that Ben and Cooper are conning Locke. I think the reason Ben is looking at the clock so much is to figure if eye-liner man has had enough time to get cooper set up looking just right for his big reveal.
It seems the only time Ben is being genuine with Locke is when he's talking about Locke's miraculous recovery when he got to the island. It's bugging him that he doesn't have a handle on the mysterious properties of the island like Locke does.
Someone inquired earlier about the times on the clock in Ben's room; pulled these from lost-media:
Clock-3:25
Clock-12:35
Clock-4:13
Okay I put this in before and it accepted it, but it isn't there... so here it goes again.
Ben said that once the sub left no one would be able to find the island, and other people have been saying that maybe planes and boats can only get there by accident, because all the above ground encountres with the island seem to be just that... Accidents.
I don't think this is true. I think it is just Ben being manipulative again. He wanted Locke to think that so he would deffinitely go and blow it up, making Jack and Juliet stranded there. The reason I think this is because of the food supply drops. They couldn't drop food from a plane and have it just accidently crash on the island everytime... right? There has to be a way to reach the island by air and not using a underwater beacon to hone in on the area.
LGLM,
I agree, what is with TPTB saying they didn't know about the Swan when they have Swan food in there fridge's. Maybe that is how all the food comes and they just thought that that was the label for Dharma food products... hmmm still thinking about all this
Spinning...
spinning...
spinning........
does it ever end.... lol
Oh and Ange,
That wasn't directed directly at you (about the two guys in the plane) it has been said by other people here as well as on other forums and such, was just wondering how it suddenly became a plane and everyone just started to agree with it... lol
bigdog said...how many places can a submarine show up pick up people and drop off people without someone in the states or wherever they go noticing. Its not like subs are a major source of travel for people
You are on form today and making me laugh heaps!
jason said:The dharma group has been trying to use this to solve the issues of the world.
I agree, and I think that is where this is stemming from. Mangus found the island, realized there was something special about it, and it because a family/DHARMA mission in a manner of speaking. Which supports that there is someone, somewhere who knows how to get to this island sans sub, coordinates, and radio/sonar transmissions...just saying.
I am off to the gym where I hope to have an epiphany that will tie this all together. Is that too much to ask from 40 min on the treadmill?
Double post...sheesh Ange! REALLY going for a bit after this but...HI DED! And, I knew what you meant;), and well said about the island via air...I think so too.
Also I just noticed on Lost-media as well that, in the scene where you can see the fridge and the oven. That to the right of the capture there is a wedding picture on the wall of Bens crib, how strange would it be if the picture was of Ben and Danielle... hmmm?
Codysmom said: I think the reason Ben is looking at the clock so much is to figure if eye-liner man has had enough time to get cooper set up looking just right for his big reveal.
I think the clock shots of 3:25 and 4:13 show us that Ben was telling the truth when he told Ben that Jack and Juliet were leaving within the hour. The 12:35 one? Got me.
Once they had caught Locke on the dock they had as much time as they wanted before showing Locke what came out of the magic box. Locke's clothes were dry and he's rubbing his arms like he'd been in that awkward handcuffed over a pipe position for a while.
The ironic thing is Ben sends Richard for TMFT when all he knows from Locke is that Locke wants the submarine and has met Mikhail. Ben sends for TMFT before their discussions about the Island and it's meaning, power, cheating, the box, etc. What does this mean? It means the more I think about it the more confused I get much like in Flashes Before Your Eyes.
Yeah Ded, I noticed that picture last night, but you can't see anything other than it's a wedding photo. I'm also willing to state it is of relatively recent vintage because it is in color. My point is, I don't think it would be Ben's parents because their photo like my parents' would probably be in black and white, not color.
I found it...
I know what the Others are willing to die to protect...
There can be nothing more important to them but this...
Take a look...
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/2861/talahasseecap515hh1.jpg
WV: nyfags ( I $#!t you not)
So the Others want to be cool like Joey and Chandler on Friends. Is that what you're saying Ded?
And blogger better watch out for the ACLU. My wv includes the word jew.
why didnt alex tell someone that locke was at the sub? if the clocks changing our suppose to show us time that elapsed during the episode.
i understand bens motive for not saying something.
aah shucks ange he says blushing:)
Finally caught up on the comments after going to bed last night. Apparently I tap out early.
I thought the cinemetography as Locke was preparing to blow up the sub was really interesting. It was very familiar to the last time Locke opened a hatch and descend ed into the depths – with the same eventual result: the destruction of everything inside that hatch.
The shot looking up the ladder at Locke, and the shot looking down the ladder at the red light were very reminiscent of the end of S1/beginning of S2.
Also, it hasn't been discussed much, but I really like Sayid's move with Alex. Saying gets the maximum impact possible from the fewest words he could have spoken, planting a major seed of doubt within Alex. We'll see what happens with that.
Lastly, I think we all might be jumping rather quickly to a physical idea of a "box" that Ben talked about. I don't think there's any physical box, but rather that the whole island is the box.
Remember, Ben said, "Let me put this in terms you can understand. Picture a box."
I believe the box is the island.
That's all for now!
Hey tim
I like the idea the island is the "box". That makes alot of since.
Yes, remember Locke worked for a box company. I like that the island is the box.
That's good thinking, that the physical entity of The box is the entire island. Sweet.
I think we talked about the whole Island being the box back during the Heironymous box discussion. We need Picsel. Ben said something to Ben though about there being a place on the Island with the Box. But, as we all know, you can't trust Ben. I'll look for it once transcripts come out.
I was thinking was Locke saving Ben or even saving the Island per Boone's Further Instructions? Ben is in the airport.
Rewatched episode and some things really stood out for me:
1. Is Cooper really Locke's father? Disability worker asks him about his biological parents.
2. Locke admits he killed Patchy.
3. Ben sure has a lot of clothes in his closet. LOL
4. Richard Alpert questions Ben's request for TMFT..."Why do you need him for?" Makes me think they've been holding him for some length of time.
5. Kate wonders if Jack knew about her and Sawyer.
6. Maybe Alex was about to ask Sayid about Karl (when she went to get his backpack), but was interrupted by Ryan the guard.
WV: I got "usa" in mine -- bavvusa
Well, I did not figure out all there is to connect in Lost on the treadmill, I do however think that Cooper is Locke's father. The biological parent thing is a sketchy form type of question. As a matter of fact I got asked that at the doctor's office just yesterday for records. Cooper seemed pretty sure that Locke would be a match for a kidney, and that would be pretty random for someone on the street to assume. Okay so if not father, I would buy a relative of some kind.
P.S. Hi Maven:)
hey every1 great epi. last nite. LOTS of mythology revealed. and i heard theres gonna be a big peice of mythology revealed next week..........=]. any way on the hugo cup thing that i mentioned earlier, TLC only has 7 VOTES????!!!! cmon people go vote for your favorite website to win!!! http://www.execute.tv/category/HugoCup
What is the Best LOST Website of the Year? Who should take the 2006-2007 Hugo Cup? We need your help to find out!
The Hugo Cup, named for perennial LOST character Hugo “Hurley” Reyes (played by the awesome Jorge Garcia), recognizes excellence in getting LOST online. This second annual award program once again turns directly to the fans to find the most deserving nominees. Share your favorite LOST site today!
Hey, Ange! I just thought the biological parent question seemed a little off-the-wall. Some sites are saying that Anthony Cooper/Adam Seward is a anagram for "Sawyer, a con man, a poor Dad" and might be the real Sawyer.
Cooper definitely seemed really surprised/shocked/worried when he saw John enter the room at the end of the episode!
BTW: I think there's a conspiracy to make the WV as tricky as they can. 3x for this post!
Vozzek69 on DarkUFO wrote:
Who knows how long ago Locke inadvertently manifested his dad. The point is that upon stumbling across the man from Tallahassee, Ben immediately knew who was responsible for him. This made Locke a very important commodity to Ben, which may be why he came looking for him in season two. Which would make Cooper cooped up for a pretty long while.
This is a wild idea. Does this mean Jack's dad, Kate's horse, Yemi etc. are either still roaming on the island or being held by the Others? That's really hard for me to get my head around. I also don't understand can you just think "I wish I had a cheeseburger" and now there's a cheeseburger somewhere on the island, I just need to find it?
The magic box could explain the whole Walt with the Polar Bear thing way back in Special. Walt wanted a bear and he got it. Maybe you have to be Special like Walt and Locke (his mom told him he was special) to use the wish box. In that case, who else has been told they were special? According to LostPedia the list is Shannon, Walt, Locke, Charlie and Juliet. I'm betting Charlie's going to be able to wish up something in his next episode.
If Kate and Jack aren't special (but they are to me), then why were things they wanted to see manifested?
My head is spinning, so I'm going to try to only think about basketball the rest of the evening. See you tomrrow LoCos.
i think hes gonna kill him. i mean cmon i would if some1 through me out of a 8 story window and then paralized me for 4 years
GO BRUINS!
ib4uc said...
Someone inquired earlier about the times on the clock in Ben's room; pulled these from lost-media:
Clock-3:25
Clock-12:35
Clock-4:13
Wow, I totally missed the 12:35!! Thanks! My husband thinks it's a production error (that it happened to be that time when they shot the scene), but I'm not so sure, especially when it changes from 12:35 to 4:13 almost in the blink of an eye:
Alex walks into Ben's livingroom with Sayid's backpack (it's 12:35) and literally 3 screenshots later it's 4:13?
Box=island energy mojo, the power of thinking plus a little special brain wave action. You think it, it will happen. But yeah, what happens when you are done thinking/wanting it...poof, black smoke!?
Plus I am really only posting so I can see if I like this new avatar...:P
memphish said...
Codysmom said: I think the reason Ben is looking at the clock so much is to figure if eye-liner man has had enough time to get cooper set up looking just right for his big reveal.
I think the clock shots of 3:25 and 4:13 show us that Ben was telling the truth when he told Ben that Jack and Juliet were leaving within the hour. The 12:35 one? Got me.
Once they had caught Locke on the dock they had as much time as they wanted before showing Locke what came out of the magic box. Locke's clothes were dry and he's rubbing his arms like he'd been in that awkward handcuffed over a pipe position for a while."
Good catch on that, memphish. This would mean there's plenty of time for Ben and Co. to set this up.
As far as the stuff about the manifestations (Vozzek69 on DarkUFO wrote: Who knows how long ago Locke inadvertently manifested his dad.)
This only works if you believe Dark UFO's main theory and I'm not so sure I do.
Nice avatar, ange:) Are you like smoking a really fat stogie?
My brain is starting to bleed and I'm hungry
bbl
A-Coop must have been persuaded by...
Richard Alpert Recruitment Services.
Bringing people to Portland against their will since 1980.
Thanks..hehe I was looking at this big gobstopper and trying to figure out how to fit it into my face hole! DHARMA is too small though...it'll go soon. I think I may feel some Joop coming on. And on that note...dinner!
scoutpost said...Where's Dennis?
Well...it took me all day, but I finally caught up on all the comments. Sorry I couldn't get on last night. Two more weeks of bowling and I can finally start watching LOST live again! WooHoo!
capcom said...if anyone feels like talking about what Jack meant by the kids being better off, that would be nice.
They are safe as in they were not kidnapped and eaten or killed or something. They probably live in nice Other houses with backyards and everything. Jack was vague with his answer, much like Goodwin, but he saw the kids alive, so he knows they are living with the others. He may have also seen them around the village since he's been there.
maven said...Is Cooper really Locke's father? Disability worker asks him about his biological parents.
I was thinking that Locke's "dad" might not be his biological father, but the kidney match would be too much of a coincidence. I'm undecided.
maven said...Maybe the "magnificent man" is really the Box...the recruits wanted a magnificent man to be the one running the operation on the island (make everything worthwhile), so that's what the Box showed them ... Ben is definitely the leader of the Hostiles/Others. He calls them "my people" and is trying to keep everyone happy there. He says the sub is an illusion to give them the sense they can leave, but it doesn't work.
I'm starting to think that Ben is the magnificant man, and there is no Jacob. Everyone goes through Ben, and only Ben talks to Jacob.
Ange said... 6. How does the island heal people, and why only certain people?
DiggityDirge said...Healing Powers: There is definetly something very strange about how the islands heals certain people, but not others. Remember that Rose was also saved by landing on the island, and doesn't want to leave. John is not the only one. But why did Ben even get the tumor in the first place? Weird!
Different healing places work for different people. Remember when rose went to Austrlia to get healed, and the guy told her that she couldn't be healed there. Maybe Ben needs to leave the island and go to Australia.
ISAAC: There are certain places with great energy -- spots on the Earth like the one we're above now. Perhaps this energy is geological -- magnetic. Or perhaps it's something else. And when possible I harness this energy and give it to others. May I?
[He puts his hands near Rose's face and closes his eyes. He suddenly opens his eyes, looking disturbed.]
ROSE: What? What, what is it?
ISAAC: I'm sorry. I can't do anything for you, Rose.
ROSE: I didn't expect you to. [Rose goes to a window and looks out at Bernard talking to a young girl on crutches.]
ISAAC: It's not that you can't be healed. Like I said, there's different energies. This is not the right place for you.
ROSE: Where is the right place?
ISAAC: I wish I knew.
Some Questions:
• Did any Day Break watchers recognize the female detective as Mrs. Garza?
• Did anyone recognize the music Jack was playing on the piano?
GO BRUINS!
codysmom
I hate to say it but I think I agree with your husband.
The first screen shot on lost-media file 629 is 12:35 then file 632 is 4:13 but if you go to the next screen shot file 633 and it is blurry and hard to tell but to me it looks like it's back to 12:35 again. To me anyway.
Dennis! Glad you made it:)
memphish said...
I think we talked about the whole Island being the box back during the Heironymous box discussion. We need Picsel.
Yes we did-
picsel said...
although i do find it very interesting so my guess would b ethat the island is perhaps the machine sort of.
2/17/2007 01:05:00 PM
And I agree with this also. Picsel, where are you? You need to come and claim your theory in case it's right and you win a prize.
Regarding the clock and the time, that is a puzzler. It would seem that it was just a flub up, but are TPTB that careless? They know how closely we examine everything. I don't know if this is a spoiler or not, so I'll say it carefully- but at Comic Con DL and CC made a statement about time and the island (most of you probably remember), so you have to wonder if something is fishy.
Dennis: When you posted about Ben being "the magnificent man", it got me thinking about the similarity to the "Wizard of Oz" with Ben being the Wizard behind a fake, theatrical facade. He may talk about magic and the powers of the island, but he really doesn't control it. The Wiz needs Dorothy to help him by clicking her heels, just like he needs Locke to harness the power of the island.
GO BRUINS!
memphish said...My head is spinning, so I'm going to try to only think about basketball the rest of the evening. See you tomrrow LoCos.
Maybe if you think good thoughts and put some fan paraphenalia in a shoe box, your fav team will win?! :)
Dennis, OK I can buy that about the kids at face value. It still wasn't very nice to steal the kids, but "as safe as they can be with their kidnappers" is something that I can consider safe for now. :o)
And Dennis, do you mean that Ben is the Him that even Ben talks about, as in, "Pay no attentin to the man behind the curtain"? Or should we say Box? Someone make an avatar of Ben's head on the Wizard of Oz's body. :-D
That is a good theory maven, but does this mean you are giving up on your theory that Christian is Jacob? hehe
J. Wood blog is up.
Scoutpost: I think we all have a zillion theories! LOL
dennis said:
Did any Day Break watchers recognize the female detective as Mrs. Garza?
• Did anyone recognize the music Jack was playing on the piano?
No darn it I didn't notice that was Mrs. Garza
I could't even recognize it as music because for some reason in my area the first 20 minutes of the show sounded garbled like it was playing on a worn out tape.
Y'all knew I couldn't stay away didn't you? It's half time of the Memphis game and they trail by 5. Where is that Magic Box?
Wizard of Oz stuff. Maybe it's Wizard of Oz combined with Weekend at Bernie's. Ben is the only one allowed to see Jacob, and Jacob is dead, but he doesn't want anyone to know yet. So Jacob is the referenced "magnificient man," but Ben is what everyone is stuck with.
Second Wizard of Oz idea. Locke is Dorothy. He has harnessed the power of the Island (ruby slippers) without understanding them and that makes Ben the Wicked Witch of the West and hey, I know TPTB have said this isn't true, but what if Jacob (Wicked Witch of the East) was turbine guy.
Go Tigers Go!
Go Vols!
Go Bruins!
Codysmom said...
ewwwww, Tom without a shirt!
If you have seen the movie Sideways, we have unfortunately seen all the Tom (MC Gainey) we will ever need.
Dennis said: Did anyone recognize the music Jack was playing on the piano?
A lot of people on the fuselage are saying the music is the show music that plays whenever Jack is in a tense situation. (with his dad, with Sara, etc.) They are saying it is on the LOST CD. I will look and see if I can find the exact name.
I thought this one of the better eateregg posts I saw last night and I wanted to share it with yall. If you actually go to the link, each egg has a screen shot associated with it.
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=73453
ok,i though it d be neat to add em up so we get ourselves a tidy lil stack.here we go:
1) Apollo framed poster in Anthony's apartment!!!!
2) Locke's hospital scrubs and Claire's scrubs
3) mac Cutcheon in FBYE , ( Charlie's bottle ) and mac Cutcheon in Man from tallahassee(anthony's)
4) Kate's horse replica miniature!
5) Locke's tv dinner tray-arrow,number 4,cowboy boot(all the best cowboys have daddy issues etc) ,target,fish,key hole etc-
6) our familiar red island flowers
7) chess board on Ben's wall
8) 3.25 first time the camera zooms on the clock at Bens place and 4.10 the second time around,after Alexs return(its 4 .10 and not 16.10 cos its nighttime)
OK ,HERE WE HAVE A COMEBACK OF THE NUMBERS :3+25+4+10=42
9) Masks appearing on brainwashing video 1 and .image 2
and masks on Bens wall
and masks on bens wall and Buddha statuette
another coll tidbit I just picked up from the fuselage and I didn't see anyone mention:
Anthony Cooper, Adam Seward" is anagram for "Sawyer, the con man, a poor dad"
Pretty interesting!
and another good one. (I think I am the only one here)
http://gallery.lost-media.com/thumbnails-1267.html
special forces patches displayed on the wall in Locke's apartment?
as for the Locke being all wet issue. Good catch. I don't think John hid the sub and blew up the dock. I think John had more than one piece of C4 from the flame hatch and he placed the charges inside and outside the sub.
Keep in mind subs are designed to take an explosive hit during battle, and they can be completely destroyed if hit directly.
My question is how the hell did he remoted detinate the c4? The flame did not have a timer detinator and we didn't see him drop a lever or push a remote button.
Diggitydirge, good stuff. I think Maven saw that Sawyer anagram as well. All that other stuff -- wow. Thanks for trolling The Fuselage for us. It's too big for me.
As for setting the fuse, Locke told Sayid anyone who watches TV can set a slow fuse--just use a cigarette, or knowing Locke he brought along left over fuse from the Black Rock.
And the Box works as you know if you saw the end of the Memphis game.
Go Bruins! You're in the box!
LGLM, I love the Vincent is the Smoke Monster theory. It would explain how the Others, the Box, Smokey, the Island started gathering intelligence on the survivors right away given his encounter with Jack.
My guess about Smokey and the trees assuming that it is Smokey knocking down the trees is that again it's a reconnaisance mission and it's keeping everyone on the beach for the night. Containment, a key strategy I'd think. It didn't count on Jack and Kate being the most stubborn people in the world and Charlie's drug habit leading to their expedition into the jungle where we see it again after a repeat appearance on the beach during the rain storm. And Vincent watched the intrepid three head out. My guess is that after Vincent saw J,K and C, Smokey appeared at the beach to pin everyone else down and then went to deal with J, K, C and the Pilot.
The thing about Charlie being in the wrong seat. I think that's an error they made. I can't remember if TPTB have conceded that Charlie was in the wrong seat in the Flashback or not, but it definitely is a problem.
I've got the Bruins and the Vols in the magic box and both lead. Draw your own conclusions.
sayid's girl & those who had audio problems in fisrt 20 min.You can watch online and hear the music clearly.
My favorite line was from Locke "Got anything to eat?" I'm pretty sure that is what Ben asked them in the hatch.(before the time he said "Got any milk?")So many theories & posts;TMFT will keep us busy for awhile. 'nite all.
Sweet 16...Final 4...
There's a new thread.
heironymous - When I hear that name I think of an artist Heironymous Bosch that did a painting of the 7 deadly sins. I did a paper on it when I was in college.
It reminded me on an eye. It was round with 7 pie shaped images around it depciting the sinse. Another image was in the middle (the pupil of the 'eye') - I think it was an image of Jesus, but I don't remeber it that clearly.
I found a link to it on wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Deadly_Sins_and_the_Four_Last_Things
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