Locke, Sayid and Kate investigate a strange structure and its mysterious inhabitant - the man in the eye patch! Sawyer competes in a pingpong competition to get back his belongings.
Wednesday, March 07, 2007
ENTER 77 - SEASON 3, EPISODE 11
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Here is the updated reading list for the 
403 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 403 Newer› Newest»The word "Purge" connotes removal of some undesirable element from within. Since we know that the Others' M.O. is to infiltrate and observe as much as anything else, it is quite possible that they infiltrated the Dharma Initiative. As time went on, they converted some DI people over to their mysterious "cause". Eventually, the leaders of Dharma attempted to "Purge" their organization of both the ones they called "Hostiles," i.e. people who were already on the island before Dharma arrived, and Hostile sympathizers, Dharma people that they converted.
The end of that story is that the Dharma-faithful lost that fight. The original island inhabitants, alog with their new acquisitions, took over all the Dharma infrastructure, including the food drops, several stations, the barracks, and apparently their worldwide recruiting network.
Namaste.
Engineer27, do you think maybe the Purge was initiated by the Hostiles instead of DI and that was part of Patchy's lies? It seems weird to use the word purge and then you lose. This would probably be the only backwards purge in history.
The big question on my mind is: Where did the Others (Hostiles) live before they took over the DI's facilities? Underground? And, wherever it is, are there still other Hostiles living there? Maybe not all of them packed up and moved into the barracks.
re watching at work. locke at least was thinking clearly when he told Sayid not to let klug talk to patchy during the stand off. said if he wanted to kill me he would have.
If patchy knew Klug was downstairs why didnt he kill locke. Patchy knew that there were explosives in the building and stopped Locke just before hitting 77.
Bigdog, I think these people don't kill even people like Locke willy-nilly. I think it's part of the whole "good" thing. Maybe that explains Ethan killing Scott and his threats. Ethan was a relative newbie. Maybe he wasn't fully buying into their ways yet.
memphish said...
This would probably be the only backwards purge in history.
Perhaps. Maybe the native islanders preferred to operate under the radar, but the DI leaders discovered their infiltration and essentially forced them to take more definitive and open action. It seems that "coup" would be a better word than "purge" for this action, however.
memphish, so which people are they, hostiles or others?
dont recall what was klug role in the walt interrogation? i remeber her being the head person on the fake camp site
Ok going out on a limb here...
I was looking at the Russian document from the Flame that Locke picked up- according to the translation, you can tell it is telling an account of something that happened, and there are references in it that, like memphish said, make you think it might have been a dossier of Sayid's history. But when you read what the handwritten notes say, as listed on Lostpedia, do you think that Mikhail could have been an alias and that his real name was Andrey? Could there possibly be a connection between Sayid and him before the island? Could the notes indicate that Andrey is time looping (like Desmond?)? The handwritten notes are very curious to me.
I remember Ben saying that he was not happy about the deal that was made with Michael. Klugh seemed to be in charge of that whole operation, and I believe that she was the one who made the deal (she was at least the one who presented it). Maybe whatever she was doing at The Flame was part of a punishment for that mishandling of the Michael/Walt situation.
Klugh did seem to carry some clout in the Other's world. She also was in control of the meeting between Walt and Michael, etc. And threatened to put Walt back in the room if he said too much to Michael.
Goodwin was with the Peace Core, wonder if he answered an advertisement.
The listening post Patchy was stationed at, wonder if it had any significance. Didn't a listening post catch a signal from the island, and someone allerted Penny Widmore?
The Purge could have been the sickness that killed Dan's crew.
Totally agree with you JGZ about Lost dreams, I had them all night after this ep! It must have struck an inner chord with me. They were totally bizarre and I feel like I didn't get any sleep all night, because I was being chased a lot. And Donald Trump was there too, ew.
Oops, if it was N***i Sawyer said that too, I'm wrong. I knew that it was one of the Bleepers, and it was awesome! :o) Thanks for correction.
Yes Melissa, I thought that Danielle acted very suspicious or weird as well. I mean, weird even for Danielle.
Memphish, I'm keeping the "Danielle's on the side of 'somegroup' and not totally on her own" thought open in the back of my mind also. And Daniel being a form of Biblical name, along with the rest of them......... If she is in the DI game, she might have known that if things went bad with their "guests", the Flame would have to be blown up, and people would have to be shot, so she stayed away. I dunno.
While I was watching Kate going through the kitchen, I was hoping that those were not human legs that she found in the fridge/freezer! Bleah.
Good point Engineer, perhaps the DI tried to purge the island of the original inhabitants, in the way that the natives were relocated from Bikini Atoll (et.al.) for bomb tests. Only, these natives didn't move so easily.
memphish said... It's funny that the women on the board think that Sayid was lying to Amari, but Dennis and hubby think he was telling the truth.
FWIW, my wife thought he was telling the truth, but she didn't believe Mikhail for one second. I completely believed him.
Ange said...Although maybe he is allergic to cats, and his eyes were just bothering him.
LSHNEMB! What is Locke allergic to then? Common sense?
Ange said... Re the Nadia poster. Patchy mentioned that he had the same birthday as her. Could this be important?
I didn't see any significant events that relate to Lost, but there were a couple of interesting things for November 12th:
1990 - Tim Berners-Lee publishes a formal proposal for the World Wide Web.
1955 - In the Back to the Future film trilogy, This is a key date. Lightning strikes the Hill Valley, California Clock Tower at exactly 10:04 PM, stopping the clock's arms for several decades. This storm sends Marty McFly back to 1985 in Doc's De Lorean time machine, and the date Marty gets his parents together. In Back to the Future Part II, Marty and Doc Brown return to this date to stop Biff Tannen from changing history. Doc Brown hypothesizes that this date might hold some special significance, being the temporal junction point for the entire space-time continuum (or, as he says, "it could just be an amazing coincidence").
JGZ350 said... What was up with the comment from patchy about her being the best athlete in the world?
She was a pretty big deal in the 70s. She was the first Olympic gymnast to get a perfect 10 (in fact the score boards didn't even go up to 10), and wnet on to score 5 more in the same year. She won 5 gold medals, 3 silver and a bronze, 1975 "Athlete of the Year", and will forever be the youngest Olympic all-around champion. She is also credited with popularizing the sport of Gymnastics around the world.
OK, locos. Memphish noted (from the Official Lost podcast) in the previous thread that we should pay attention to Boone's dialogue from 'Further Instructions'. Does anyone see a correlation to 'Enter 77' or would it pertain to a future episode?
Oh, and one word for Locke: gullible. I bet if someone told him that word was not in the dictionary, he would go to look it up.
Yep, Nadia was a very big deal, back in the day. She was the pride and joy of the USSR.
I forget, what does LSHINEMB stand for from TLE again? Laughed so hard something is shooting out of my brain? We need an acronym page. :o)
Danielle acted the same way I do around my sister-in-law: I don't want to see her, so I make up a reason to stay in the other room. ;)
My guess is, she does know Patchy, and didn't want the face-to-face.
LuckyGuyLikeMe said... Is the "purge" the same thing as "The Incident?"
Maybe the Others call it "the purge" and the Dharma people call it "The Incident". If that's the case, who was purging who? It sounds to me the the Others were purging the Dharma people, and not the other way around.
LSHINEMB = Laughing so hard nanites exploded my brain
dennis, fabulous info. from Back to the Future, (I think I rated that movie an 8 on IMDB;)) and the world wide web. I googled the date too and didn't see anything jump out at me. I just can't get it out of my head though. What a weird and random thing to throw at us for no reason.
1. Nadia is the best athelete in the world.
2. He named his cat after her.
3. She has the same birthday as Patchy.
4. Long camera shot of the poster.
I DON'T KNOW what to make of that.....damn maybe Patchy just wants to stick his landing during his dismount as he is hurled from The Flame station when it blows up.
I'm surprised there's so much Locke-hate from this episode. As fans, I can see us being miffed he blew up all those binders and general plot info, but it makes perfect sense for his character. He's back in his Island-Faith mode, and following further instructions fits. Don't forget, if he hadn't followed the cryptic Jesus-stick message on faith, they never would have found the Flame.
Besides, destroying the Flame station, which had—like Otherville, apparently—been taken over by the "hostiles" after the purge, is as good an offensive move as any to hurt the Others. I wonder if destroying the station will cut off their power...
Erich
Who is the Atomic Blowtorch?
The new Lost and Found stuff is up on ABC.com/lost (use 888-258-3741 to login)
Interesting items:
• Sayid's name is Najeev in the flashback, the other guy's name is Sami, and the wife is Amira.
• The guy in the video is called Dr. Candle
• "Sayid was right again" :)
• Locke detonates the C-4 by entering 77. Did he do it on purpose? What is Locke's agenda?
• Nadia the cat survived the explosion. How did it end up on the island? Could it be anything else?
Sounds like "Lost and Found" is hinting at Nadia being Smokey...
Thanks Dennis! :o)
Good, and funny, points Ange!
With all the Purge and Incident and Hostiles talk, it may be that there was more than one huge, people-splitting, purpose-changing, plan-diverting event on this island. And perhaps the only "good guys" on the island, were/are the originals? Except of course for Hurley. And maybe Claire and Aaron.
BTW, I was very happy to see Hurley starting to get his self-esteem back, or maybe getting some for the first time ever. Not just everyone can out-con the con! :o) And I have to say, Jorge can really say volumes with the expressions on his face, he's a good actor.
Dennis I can't believe I didn't recognize that date. My daughter and I watched the Back To The Future trilogy on tv last weekend.
You're right Eric, we have to -- even if grudgingly -- give Locke credit for leading them into the path of the Flame, even if their original target may have actually been Otherville. BUT, Patcheski would not have gotten the upper hand momentarily on Sayid and Kate, if he had been bloody paying attention and watching their backs as he should have been. If there is any place in the world that a person should practice "situational awareness", it's when stranded on an unstable island, peopled with strange hostile people, of unknown intentions.
Locke just keeps acting like a doofy flower-child, and like he says, he keeps making messes that he has to clean up. A sane adult usually learns from his/her mistakes enough to not repeat them over and over. I'm waiting for Locke to become that sane person now. :-p You know, fool me three times, shame on me....about how many has it been for Locke as far as we know in his life?
LuckyGuyLikeMe said... Is the "purge" the same thing as "The Incident?"
The Swan film (which mentions "The Incident") had a date on it of 1980. If Mikhail's time span of 11 years is accurate, the Purge must have taken place in the mid '90s.
There are other "incidents" mentioned on the blast door map, some of which occurred about the time the Purge must have taken place. One of those flourescent scribbles might refer to the Purge.
Yet another reason to run out and get your copy of the Official Lost Magazine next month, with the poster-sized pullout of the Blast-door map.
Why thank-you capcom. I have been thinking about the episode all day and it is making me a little nuts, you all just get to witness it.
erich said: I'm surprised there's so much Locke-hate from this episode.
I agree with you. I guess I am no longer surprised when Locke gets seduced by the island. Actually, I felt almost a little sad for him when he was SO super happy about winning the chess game. It was like the reaction a child would have when they know they did well. He had no idea what winning would unlock...he just wanted to win.
Another thought about Locke's intuition/inspiration leading them to the Flame......even a broken clock is correct two times a day, as the saying goes. :o)
The island made him do it.
Erich said... I wonder if destroying the station will cut off their power...
Or blow anything else up...
Long time lurker first time poster.. or something like that.
I think we keep missing a few things.
If Alex is Danielle's daughter then without any leap of imagination Danielle's husband is Ben. Which would make Danielle -- An Other !
John had to blow the building up. Sure as a viewer I want answers to the 100's of questions that the writes love to leave open. However if John didn't blow the Flame up then we'd always just say... well dumba$$ go to the Flame and look up why such-and-such is going on. So it was needed .... sadly.
Oh yeah and they couldn't kill Mikhail, if they did who'd run into the umm... electric fence next week?
But again I'm pretty sure when this is all said and done Danielle & Ben are going to be Alex's mother & father.
Danielle said that she shot the father. Right?
I get the feeling the "electric fence" deal will be another ABC promo department gaffe. I bet the blowing up of the Flame disabled the security and Patchy will go through unhurt.
Once I figured out "77" would probably set off the C4 I had myself temporarily convinced Locke was going to bite it last night. I'm glad I was wrong!
Great stuff everyone.
I heard this on Jay & Jack - what if Locke meant to blow up the Flame to prevent them from being able to leave the Island?
He hit Sayid over the head in Season 1 and destroyed the transceiver. When Kate came back he asked her "so you can leave the island?"
Maybe as the Lost + Found stuff hinted Locke wasn't quite the stupid a** he seemed to be. It's a stretch, but maybe . . .
I hope that you're wrong Erich, I really want to see someone's atoms get disintegrated by the atomic force-field fence next week! POW! ZAP! POOF! :o)
Welcome Crashnet!!!
crashnet saidIf Alex is Danielle's daughter then without any leap of imagination Danielle's husband is Ben. Which would make Danielle -- An Other !
It is a logical assumption, but it is entirely possible that Ben just raised Alex. Danielle is a fishy chick for sure, she seems pretty crafty, and I am really thinking that she has WAY more to do with the other folks on the island than she lets on. Keep in mind though she did catch Ben in her net, then turn him over to the Losties...I didn't notice a dynamic there like a husband and wife, but maybe I'll go have another look.
Don't know if this qualifies as a Loster-egg or not, but there is another chess game in "Enter 77" ...
see for yourself.
Memphish, if you are correct, I will apologize to Locke personally and compliment him on being so devious. :o) Wow, what if he made a deal with Ben-then-Fenry that we don't know about yet?! Yikes!
crashnet said...If Alex is Danielle's daughter then without any leap of imagination Danielle's husband is Ben. Which would make Danielle -- An Other !
If Alex is Ben's biological daughter, then Danielle would have been Ben's wife/girlfriend/baby momma, which would make her an Other.
But there's no evidence to support that, other than Alex calling Ben dad. If Alex was stolen when she was a baby, as claimed by Rousseau, then she may not know she was "adopted" by Ben.
Plus don't forget we've only ever seen Alex refer to Ben as Ben like she knows he's not her "real" dad. But I'd like it if Danielle and Ben were Alex's biological parents.
Welcome crashnet!
You have to be impressed with Sayid's powers of observation, though. He knew there was someone else at the Flame, and exactly where to look, because of the way the cat was clawing at the rug!
Wow. Great detective work (or great writing. either way, wow).
*Waving good-bye for the afternoon* Thanks for some great discussion!
engineer27... it's just too bad that some of Sayid's 'powers' haven't rubbed off on any of the losties ;)
See ya later ange.
***waves good-bye to ange***
So who recruited Juliet and Ethan? Mittelos, but on whose behalf? DI? Hanso? TWM? Patchy? Ben?
Was Ethan a double agent? He doesn't seem smart enough for that.
Oh, and do we think that Patchy told Kelvin he was Radzinsky and made the edits and that it was his eye?
The more I think, the more confused I get. I know; it's a personal problem. It's not looking good for a good night's sleep tonight either.
BigDog,
I have been wondering the samething myself since S.O.S. aired. Did they just wander off into the woods to die, maybe to the caves. A Black stone and a white stone in adam and eves pockets an indication of the mixed relationship of Bernard and Rose.
The first cat seen outside the Flame is real. It moves as well as (I think) blinks. I have seen that same "What are you doing here on my land?" look from my own cat. Remember... in a cat's mind you are the pet and it is the owner.
Locke didn't just want to play and win the game... he had to. Mikhail said that he couldn't win and that the game cheats, and we all know what happens when you tell Locke what he can or can't do... right?
Sawyer definitely said that to P****, He said (a) to N****, (b) to P****, and (c) to all around to hear.
Luckyguy, Purge = Incident...
HMMMMMMMMMMM makes me think it could be.
Maybe Klugh is a part of this seperate faction of the others we think exists, Klugh and Patcheski are trying to get back into Ben's good graces and this is why the try to get him freed by Michael, so that he will except them back. Then he finds out about the deal with Michael and sends Klugh Back to patchy to continue with her segregation from the Others.... Just a thought.
Not everything in the Flame is destroyed. I have watched three times now and there are no wires or explosives in the Binder room, which also has a fire door (made of steel) that would protect all that stuff inside. The meat as well would most likely still be there in the fridge, lightly seared to a medium-rare perfection... lol. The explosion had alot of fire and little bang which makes me wonder if it wasn't just a decoy thing since that building was still mainly intact. A ruse to make them think the blew it up and this is why patchy MADE it seem he didn't want 77 entered. They have to go back there and dig up some of that stuff. I know...KNOW I say... that there is a least some evidence left over in there.
Mmmm, Ded, bar-b-q!
Yeah, "You can't do that" = "I'm going to do that regardless of the consequences", to Locke. He's so predictable, you could really manipulate him very easily, if you wanted to! Too bad that Jack was too dumb to realize that. Of course, Jack is like that too! :-D "I don't want a tattoo" ... "You can't have a tattoo!" ... "Give me a tattoo dammit!"
I would like to think that not all is lost in the Flame or the Swan. Even if we don't see it, I'm going to pretend. :o) But seriously, perhaps the underground storage area was not torched either, as well as the area behind the fire door.
Capcom: But didn't Sayid eye the C-4 explosives in the underground storage area? Wouldn't that be the first to go?
maven... I think you're correct -- when Sayid went down the ladder, he looked up at some wiring that was attached to the explosives. It's probably a total loss.
See ya in another life, Ms. Klugh ;)
i am wondering why patchy did not kill sayid when he shot him. He is obviously a good shot as he was able to shoot klugh in the heart and hit sayid in the arm.
everytime it looks like the losties are ahead of the others/hostiles it ends up that they were one step ahead.
were there any other camera or monitoring equipment noticed.
HA HA...
Knights of Prosperity has been Day Break-ed!
Here is a weird video...it's a spoof of the Lost writers...
Writers of Lost
(Caution...bad language)
lost & confused-
You make a good point. Also, it surely took quite a while to build the whole hatch system, etc. and you would think that the "hostile" would have attacked them before they could get settled into the island, not wait until they're done and then try to get rid of them. It will definitely be interesting to hear more of that story.
Dennis- that spoof is too funny! Guess it'll be another 2 1/2 years before we know anything else!
Oh yes, the C4 was downstairs. Hmmmm. Well, there goes the neighbor hood. Thanks! :-)
Lost & confused: I also think you make a good point. Building the hatch and tunnel system took a lot of time and money. No one would want to invest in that if there's going to be trouble with natives being hostile to you being there.
I think the two groups could be Dharma Initiative originals and the new Mittelos group which would include recruits like Juliette. She didn't answer an ad touting that she could "save the world".
None of the DI station videos say anything about saving the world do they? But of course our big TLE Sri Lanka video does. I was going to try to make an argument for a DI 1 - DeGroots do their hippie experiments; DI 2 - Hanso realizes there is something bigger at stake here and sends in people like Kelvin and Patchy who have said that their mission is "to save the world", and then a Mittleos 1 started by TWM which includes unethical research in fertility among other creepy projects headed by Ethan.
One explanation for picking an island with natives and not eliminating them is that the experiments need these natives. This is true for the TWM experiments described at the end of the Sri Lanka video. Then the natives overthrew their scientists in the purge. The TWM portion of the Sri Lanka video suggests that the work of DI requires test subjects.
Ok I don't mean to harp on this, but it is bugging me. I still don't know what exactly Doc Jensen was talking about when he wrote:
I know one other secret about the Sayid episode, ''Enter 77.'' It's the latest iteration of a signature storytelling device, and you'll need Internet access or a library card to properly suss out its significance. But be careful, kids: This is revolutionary stuff. If Big Brother sees you getting TOO obsessed with this Easter Egg, you might find yourself sent to Room 101 (or is that Room 23?) for some cultural reconditioning. If you want to play detective, even at the risk of spoiling something for yourself, I'll help you out by linking you in the right direction. When you find it, email me your discovery and insta-theory at JeffJensenEW@aol.com.
Which easter egg do you think he referring to? The info in the Russian letter, the name Mikhail Bakunin or something else? Have we "properly sussed out" the significance of these easter eggs? Or are we missing something?
That's a plausible timeline for phases of the DI Memphish! Good point about the natives too. Perhaps they bought into the TWM-type lies, until one or a few of them caught on to what was really happening. And then, surprise-surprise! They didn't want to die anymore and fought back.
Hello, again, LOCos ,.. I've been absent because of computer problems, but glad to be back!
I've really enjoyed these past 2 episodes!!!! TTID was brilliant and so much fun to watch!! I like the way Hurley and his new-found attitude (make your own luck, you've gotta have hope, etc) is carrying through into this latest ep, Enter 77. Not only is he "spry", he's also a ping-pong shark. Love the con of the con-man, but will miss the Sawyerisms.
Dennis, even tho I'm a woman, I agree with you that Sayid was lying to the husband to save himself, but finally broke down and admitted the truth to the wife (the one he tortured). I don't think they (the Republican Guard) would have the option to say, "I won't torture a woman". We may be putting our western ideologies into thinking otherwise. And I think we don't want to think this of Sayid, specifically. (Boy, great acting, though!!!!)
Someone else said we're seeing more of the negative side of our Losties this season (Sayid is a good liar as well as a torturer, Jack's a stalker with a nasty temper, Kate puts drugs into drinks of the ones she loves and blows up those she doesn't, Locke is a dork, almost childlike in his defiance and naivety) so that we'll slowly go over to the Other's side. Hmmmmm I guess if the Others have dossiers on all our Losties and this negative stuff is what they know about them, the Others have good reason to be hesitant or even afraid of our heroes. I can't believe I just said that! I have always HATED the Others!!!!!!!
Hello, Lost & Confused! I think I remember you from the TLE. I agree it's a two factions of DI (like the original Hanso scientists vs the Mittlewerk (Mittlos) guys). But then that doesn't explain the 4-toed statue ...
I still don't know what to think of Danielle. It seems with Sayid's skills of knowing who's lying, he would have picked up on it by now if she was (lying).
Yes, it was priceless the look Sayid gives John when he hears his explaination of the "execute 77". Can't wait to see Sayid's face next week when it looks like John tests the fence by pushing Patchy through it:)
Mikhail said he was never a memberof the DI but everything else he told them was true and that he moved into the station after the purge.
Also when Sayid showed up Mikhail yelled I didn't cross the line we had a truce this is my land you said I could stay here.
So I'm thinking that we he says there is nothing you could do to make me lead you there. I don't think he's trying to protect them I think he's afraid of them. I still think there's two groups others and hostiles. Maybe the others are the hostiles and Mikhail is from another group or his group could be the hostiles either way there's two groups besides the DI.
Interesting theory. Perhaps Julliet was recruited for Dharma and taken hostage after the natives revolted. Also perhaps their communication with the outside world is some part of some kind of truce.
Still I'm not sure I buy that the hostiles were there before Dharma or are natives. They spin so many lies, hard to know if anything they say is the truth.
Scoutpost, I haven't figured that out either, though I confess to being a not very good Easter Egg hunter. Yesterday Passafist pointed out that most of it referred to Orwell's book 1984. Here's the full 1984 wiki entry and the specific Room 101 reference.
Maybe Passafist has a new idea about it post-episode.
Hey Maven, did I congrats you for your upcoming Grandmotherhood (is that a word?) You must be so excited!!!! I'm still waiting, waiting, ....
Memphish and capcom, Good thoughts on the phases of DI and natives. Maybe the "experience" did give us some extra info ..
Scoutpost, the Doc Jenson article has been bugging me, too. I'm going to go read it again.
Don't forget to put spoilers when referencing the previews of next week. Not all of us watch that.
I thought that the previews they show right after the airing is fair game. Dennis? correct me if I'm wrong..
What-the...?! Wow, that's a weird pic of Mitteljerk Fenris. :-D
I guess Scoupost that it's the whole "famous revolutionary" info, along with the 1984-type references? I'm not too clear here myself, but I dind't want your Q to go without an answer....even a non-answer like mine was, heh-heh. Fenris, any ideas or elaboration on your part?
Welcome back Codysmom! Wow, it has been a while.
Thanks, Codysmom. It is exciting, and your turn will come!
I still think the Dharma people and the Mittelos people are two factions that are "hostile" to each other. The Dharma group was a hippy-like utopia out to save the world and the Mittelos people (who we TLErs think is TWM related) are more corporate and in it for the money and themselves.
Then Maven have we seen any DI people on the Island at this point or is everyone we've seen Mittelos?
scoutpost do you have a link for the EW article?
Gosh, I just realized (kick me if I'm the last one in the room) that we really may not hear any Sawyerisms for a very long time! Considering how slowly time moves on the show in island-dog-years, it could be Season4 before a whole week (or was it two weeks?) passes and he can use nicknames again. Waa.
Of course this is assuming that Sawyer's an honest con-man, and will abide by a deal that he gave his word on.
Okay I am wondering.....
If we are assuming that it is Patch'y glass eye that was found in the Arrow, why would he have been there and wouldn't he have wanted to take it with him?
We first saw Patchy from the Pearl. Why would the inhabitants of the Pearl be monitoring the Flame? As patchy showed us, the Flame residents must have been aware of the camera.
Capcom, he still has lovely phrases like "get bent" available to him apparently. I'm betting Hurley and Charlie and maybe even Jin take up the nickname slack during Sawyer's probation period.
Hey ange- here's the link:
Doc Jensen article
I kind of figure it's the Mikhail/anarchist info, but that doesn't seem that mind blowing to me. Maybe it will play more in future episodes.
GYMNASTICS scoutpost...I so want the significant egg to be that ;) OR the whole Back to the Future thing...well okay not really, but I still think that was odd and also a kind of cool connection. The drive home didn't help clarify that much either. Going to read. THANKS for the link!
Memphish: Good question! I don't think that DI people have it in them to be violent coming from the 70's. So, despite what Ben says, the Others are now working for Mittelos and can't really be "the good guys". Maybe Patchy was an outcast (did he have a brand?), but was the "communication expert" and therefore was allowed to stay at the Flame (but was still monitored from the Pearl). I think maybe the Mittelos group purged the DI group somehow recruiting Ben to join them.
allisonlauren1-
I was just thinking the same thing about Patchy's eye. Why was it in the Arrow and why doesn't he want it back? could someone have taken it from him and not told him where they hid it? And if so, why the heck would they do that?
Also, I think that the Pearl was set up to watch several hatches (wasn't it?) So I guess the Pearl inhabitants watched everybody. STill there's the question of how Patchy knew that Locke, N****, and company were watching him. Was there anybody watching Locke while he was playing chess?
We haven't seen a smoker yet have we? There was that burning cigarette when Locke and Eko first found the Pearl. I didn't think it looked fresh, but Damon and Carlton made sure to point it out on the Official Podcast.
Maybe the Sheriff was the smoker in the Pearl? Her voice seemed to indicate smoking.
scoutpost said: Was there anybody watching Locke while he was playing chess?
Well the light was blinking on the camera, pointed at the chess computer and there are the monitors that Ben watches all the time, not just the Pearl station. Safe assumption that someone was watching. And ewwwww I totally spoiled myself with the Jenson spoiler link...hence the name I KNOW.
Actually, some hippies (and college types) of that time could be quite violent when they needed to be (when they were not tripping out). Case in point, the SDS (Students for a Democratic Society) led by Abby Hoffman, was quite violent. He also wrote books for followers to study, about how to make impromtu bombs, sabotage corporate buildings, etc. Not very nice.
Having said that, the DeGroots looked like more the peace-and-love science-y type though. But they could have had "followers" who pretended to be Utopia seekers that were actually typical revolutionary activists of the time, looking for an opportunity to over-throw "The Man" and "The Establishment".
Capcom, your comments made me think--if they are growing their own tea, what else are they growing? ;-)
Okay some thoughts:
The Others didn't know about the yaught. So it's reasonable to assume they didn't know about Kelvin's death (at least not right away). They did however know about the swan (with the cable map and the way they communicated with Micheal there). So That means Kelvin likely was DI and must have been there at the time of this Purge or Revolt or whatever.
What that means is either they purposely left him alone which could mean that perhaps they were involved in this "purge" and that Radzinsky could possibly have been killed by the Others and wasn't a suicide.
The other option is that the DI is still on the island, either because there was no purge/revolt or because it wasn't as one sided as the Others lead them to think. Kelvins timeline is interesting. It could be he arrived 15 years ago and that several other DI people arrived at that point which is why Patchy used that story. On the other hand he could have come to the island around the same time as Juliet.
One thing we know is that Dharma was going for a long time on the Island. Why would the natives suddenly get all tetchy about things and take over the DI buildings like that. Something certainly doesn't add up. Either the Others aren't natives or they lived in peace with Dharma for a long long time which does suggest a TWM style change in policy for Dharma.
But then Dr.Candle/Wickman refered to the hostiles and the flame was set to blow up. He doesn't look any older then in the previous videos so the Others either appeared or turned hostile a fair while back and Dharma was still running for a fair while after.
One thing I keep going back to is that the producers said there was more then one faction of Others. I really don't think the Others are really natives. They are too interested in the outside world. What if the Hostiles are just anti-Dharma. A group of people wishing to stop Dharma from preventing the end of the world, most likely for religious reasons. Judgement day and all that.
Anyway that's enough for now. I'm re-watching it again now and I always think of more things. Plus I will no doubt ponder further tomorrow when I'm well rested.
Oh yes one more thing - once again we see the flashback subject find things to trigger memories happen *after* the memories have happened.
Heh-heh, ask Lockeyboy Memphish, he should know about greenhouses and fertilizer and such! :o)
Fenris, that is a great point about Marvin and the hostiles. I agree that he looks about the same as he did in the Swan film. So when was Marvin recorded in the Flame? I hear but have not confirmed that he appears to be sitting in front of the manuals Sayid found. That could mean that the Purge and the Incident are the same thing. I still don't understand why Ben wanted to convince Locke not to enter the numbers in the Swan.
Here's another weird thing. The Pearl tape is a VHS tape. The Swan film appears to be made later because of Marvin's arm yet it's on film instead of tape, an earlier technology. And now Marvin is on the computer. I guess they could have put Marvin on film in the Swan to make it look like it had been going on longer than it had. Anyway, that's a detail that bothers me.
Good points about the Others/Hostiles/Natives/etc Fenris. Also, who's to say that any Hostiles (toward the DI) found all of the stations? They might not have known about the Swan (and maybe other well-hidden stations?), so Kelvin could have been holding things down on his own out there, in hiding. And, waiting for his replacement to go into hiding and man the station for the next time period and relieve Kelvin's watch.
On another note (but possibly connected?)....why the heck were Klugh and Patcheski SO terrified of our meager Lostaways finding their now-useless radio dispatch and cows, that they had to implement the "kill-me-kill-you" protocol? Klugh was not that afraid of them knowing where their dock, etc., was. I mean gosh, our guys didn't compromise that much of their secrets, and Patches was doing a fairly good job of pulling the wool over their eyes before everything went to heckinnahandbasket.
I think this link came from DarkUFO originally. Click it only if you want to laugh. Oh, it is LOST stuff.
Capcom - My Pic is from Mittlewerks time as a Grime MC. Hehe. I need to tweak it a bit more actually.
You know the Others lie so much. I'm starting to think the opposite. He did take a point to say that he was the last of the DI. Along with the satalite dish not functioning and that they were there for a very long time before. I don't believe any of those (that is with the DI that there are other surviving members).
Okay new thought - What if Kelvin was an Other. But like Juliet not entirely there by his own free will and wanting to get home.
Okay theory and a big one: Some members of the DI either contracted this virus thing or were brainwashed to believe they had always been on the island and were natives. Perhaps even made to think they were part of some anciet people, perhaps convincing them they were taken over by the spirit of some ancient tribe person. Okay, so when they started dying out they wanted to continue their tribe thing and so some of them went back to the mainland and continued to recruit. But this time not for Dharma for other things (Mittleos) and that is where Juliet came in.
The flaw in that is of course that Juliet remembers her past. So perhaps the brainwashing doesn't always work. Hmmm.
Okay it's a very loose theory right now. But there is no reason it couldn't be the Others leaving the island to go and recruit people.
Interesting thought Mr. Fenris, I could imagine a young Ben getting put into Room 23(or 101) like Carl and getting made to believe that he was there his whole life (assuming he was telling the truth to Jack as well, like Patches to Sayid). That would certainly make them more loyal to the island and make them not care about going back to The World....much. How Juliet falls into that, I don't know either. You could imagine lots of alternative avenues for why she wasn't brainwashed....ever, or yet.
I'll say this, I just finished Doc's article and theories for this week, and if TPTB have ideas that are even remotely as interesting as the stories that he has put forth, I will be very happy with the overall whole arc adn purpose of this show.
I've got a Heroes crossover theory about Danielle. I think the LOST equivalent of the Haitian, maybe Smokey?, has been pulling memories out of Danielle a la Mrs. Bennett which is why her stories never add up. Soon she's going to fall over in a puddle and be licked by Vincent.
Memphis - good call about the VHS. It's strange since IIRC Marvin didn't have a fake arm in that yet does in the other ones. Then again, maybe it was just because it was easier for Radzinsky to edit the swan tape on reel to reel and so he copied it across.
Capcom - As I figure it the one thing that Patchy wasn't lying about was that he wouldn't lead them to the Others base. The reason being is that he doesn't know where it is. Hence having to kill Klugh. Perhaps he was an Other but he wasn't ever in the village and was always stationed there. That only really fits if it is a case that he was origionally recruited like Juliet. Hmmm.
There is a lot that doesn't add up.
TBM, I did not notice the red heifer. Good catch. Patchy talked a lot about liking to be alone. He likened himself to a light house keeper. So I'd say there's something to that. Don't know what exactly?
It's kind of funny how the Island loner is the one person who can contact the outside world. Does he know about blogger? Or did he give up because of the &*^% WVs?
The booze had Swan logo's on it. I wonder if there was a trade between the Swan and the Flame when DI was still active. Maybe the Flame had Beer and the Swan had Spirits and they ran some back and forth.
Pehrpas the whole reason for the "incidident" was that someone didn't get their end of the bargain and so started a war. No Beer means we unleash hell!!!!!!!!
Okay maybe not. But the booze trade is possible.
The Others must have known about the Swan but perhaps they had never been there. Maybe Ben got captured to check it out.
Okay cows and food drops. If the sky going purple disrupted coms maybe it disrupted food drops too. Hence the slaughter. Could also explain why he said about the others taking two cows. Maybe it's because he didn't want them to think they got food drops too.
BTW: Last night's "Daily Show" had a bit re Scooter Libby showing him bare-chested with tatoos over his torso and arms. Most of them were political or pointing out body parts. On one arm was the tatoo: TiVo Lost!
TBM, good call on Alcatraz, light house, penal colony, etc.
J. Wood's latest is up on the Powells blog. Lots about the historical Mikhail Bakunin, anarchy, social systems, atheism, and a lot about Afghanistan which is mentioned in the documents Locke found.
I'm out for the night. See in the am LoCos.
TBM...are you saying that perhaps they are incubating their cloned children in the wombs of cows, like th aliens in the TV series "Dark Skies"???? OK, that's awesome! Got old wombs? Try our cows! I like it, seriously! But I didn't read the Wiki aritcle yet, so that's probably not what you are saying. I'll go read it now.
Hey, the "War of the Beer and Wine" sounds more exciting than the "War of Northern Agression", Fenris! :-D
Thanks for the reminder about J.Woods article Memphish. He is fast becomming my fave re-cap writer. Not only very intellectual and lit-heavy, but also looks like a cute Jack Kerouac in his photo. :-)
Lol. Tucows.
Right I'm going to bed. I'll sprout off more theories tomorrow probably. :)
serenity now, serenity now, LOL
To dreamland I go.
One final thought. When I was younger, I complained to an older worker about the company politics. He just smiled and replied, "It's ALL politics"
I still Love this show, though :)
For some reason I have the "I am the very model of a modern major general" song in my head, so I will sign off for the night as well.
As always, thanks to everyone here for all the assistance in understanding and enjoying another ep!! :-X
Ciao!
I deleted several comments I made.
Until I have thought through the best approach to present the material, in a logical clear fashion, it would just appear the ramblings of a lunatic.
And while I am a little crazy :)
I am not KrAzY LOL
Nite everyone, and god bless
I GOT SOMEONE TO TRANSLATE THE RUSSIAN!!! woohoo.
before patchy shoots the black woman:
The guy says
"there's another way!"
The woman is speaking in a dialect that's hard to understand
Then he says, "we have another way!"
She protests
and he says
"I'm sorry!"
yayayay
KAT, Lostpedia has a full translation of the dialog:
Klugh: Mikhail. Mikhail! You know what to do.
Mikhail: We still have another way [out].
Klugh: We cannot risk. You know the conditions.
Mikhail: There is another way.
Klugh: They captured us. We will not give (or let, or betray) [unintelligible].
Klugh: You know what to do. It is an order.
Mikhail: We still have another way!
Klugh (in English): Just do it, Mikhail.
Mikhail: Forgive me. (shoots)
BTW, I verified it with a Ukrainian friend of mine today. :)
Codysmom said... I thought that the previews they show right after the airing is fair game. Dennis? correct me if I'm wrong..
Yes. According to the Official Lost Community Spoiler Rules, the US previews immediately following the episode are NOT spoilers.
Dennis, thanks for the clarification on spoiler rules. In any case, sorry, Fenris, if I spoiled anything for you.
Memphish, thanks for the PowellsBook Blog link. J. Wood is amazing! I love the first guy's comment, "wow. my mind is bleeding."
"mind is bleeding"...yep, that about sums it up!
I am so befoggled by the story right now that I'm just gonna hold on tight and enjoy the ride. Trying to figure it out makes my brain cramp!
Ow.
Locke CAN'T be that stupid. Can he?
The writers DO have a plan, and know where they are going, don't they?
Hmmm. Ow. Well, nighters, all, and I'll see you on the morrow!
Morning LoCos.
Good job on the translating Kat and on the LostPedia link Dennis. About that Russian:
Notice that Mrs. Klugh orders Patchy to shoot her. And after he shoots her he tries to turn the gun on himself, but Locke stops him. (Locke didn't do everything wrong this episode.) But my main point is Mrs. Klugh outranks Patchy and pulls rank on him.
This leads me to conclude that Klugh and Patchy are still loyal to Ben who seems to maintain a heirarchical (sp?) power structure rather than their being part of the Juliet free-will-ers.
I'll be around a little this morning, and then I'll be "away" as they describe the anchors on NPR for 9 days. I'll miss everyone over here, and look forward to catching up on the rest of the Enter 77 discussion and discussion of next week's episode. Keep up the good work LoCos.
Scoutpost and the other Doc Jensen teaser obsessed LoCos: Doc answers his own question today. He also has a couple of interesting new ideas about the Others and Patchy in particular.
Just sent this in to Doc Jensen:
It must have taken a few years to construct all the Dharma research facilities on the island. Should we believe that the cult-like "Others" left the construction crews alone during that time? Or is it more plausible to propose that the Others arrived on the island some time after the Dharma Intiative began full operations?
I'm suggesting that the "Incident" referred to in the Swan station film was a giant rift in space-time which allowed the original Others to travel back in time -- either willingly or unwillingly -- to the early '80s. Note that the Incident cannot be equated with "The Purge," since that would have occurred in the '90s (if Bakunin's 11-year time frame is to be believed).
This explains why the Others always seem one step ahead of the crash survivors -- they have the benefit of knowing the future.
Ben's visit to the Swan might have been part of an attempt to re-create the EM event that created the rift originally, either to enable him to return to his own time, or to bring reinforcements through.
Of course, after the Others eliminated most of Dharma, they co-opted all of their infrastructure, including their worldwide recruiting network. So quite a few of the Others are people like Juliet and Mikhail (and perhaps Kelvin), recruited recently. Still others are castaways (like the people from the tail section, and perhaps Alex) who joined the others willingly or were brainwashed into supporting them.
If the original time-travel was planned, their true purpose still remains a mystery.
The really big unanswered question from "Enter 77", however, is this: If Sayid lived in Paris, why didn't he bother to learn French? Or perhaps he didn't really need Shannon to translate Rousseau's message for him?
engineer27
I'm thinking Sayid didn't learn French because he probably lived in the large Muslim community they have in France and probably didn't feel he needed to learn it.
If Mikhail was true to his namesake, and was an anarchist, he wouldn't fit in with the Backyard Book Club Others. So, living on his own makes sense. But maybe there's more to it... maybe he was forced to live there - as an outcast - for something he did. Maybe an uprising or something like that. Could he be "marked" like Juliet?
Maybe Ms. Klugh is marked too, which is why she is hanging out with Patchy.
Maybe his mark is the loss of his eye. Radical idea I know.
Now as we approach the mid point of the third season of Lost, abc is again itchin like a bug on a fuzzy tree....they're not in love, they ARE all shook up.
S03 e10 "Tricia Tanaka is Dead" kicked the abc execs in the groin when they found out that a map of the holy land was in a Lost scene, with a bunch of beer drinkin, joy riding rednecks, driving a volkswagen kombie across the temple mount. What would the share holders think?!?!?!
Well abc kicked into damage control mode. Cuse and Lindelof are in their busy season, writing the final Lost episodes like frantic bats out of hell, to meet the tight dead lines. Heck, they completely opted out of doing the last two podcasts, because of time constraints on their schedules.
BUT, they did have time to do a 15 minute interview with Buddy TV. After abc expressed their concerns about the "Roger Workman" map, to Cuse and Lindelof, the Buddy TV interview was set up, and the Roger Workman map was downplayed and discounted as non canonical mythology.
What the hello does that mean? Well in a reverse parallel universe like Lost, it means, the Roger Workman map is VERY FRIKKIN important, LOL
I recommend you review the Roger Workman map and compare it for yourself against a topographical map of the temple mount.
"The Third Level Exposed" posts and threads will get you started, but do your own research.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.lost/search?group=alt.tv.lost&q=%22the+third+level+exposed+-%22&qt_g=Search+this+group
Great posts this morning.
Engineer27 I love your Others are time travelers theory. It is excellent and an excellent explanation for Ben's behavior in the Swan.
Also a good catch on the French thing and a good counter-explanation Sayid's Girl, but still, I think Sayid would have picked up as much French as Shannon did, which wasn't much. Maybe someone should ask Doc about this too.
Sayid's Girl - don't forget the Others have an eye for an eye justice system. Maybe Patchy was caught peeping on the Sheriff and that was his punishment. Now I hope that I've grossed you all out.
TBM, just wondering if you think ABC helped kill Kennedy too? JK. Keep pushing against The Man.
And for the aetheists and agnostics in The Lost Community, I do not think Lost is trying to beat anyone over the head with a Biblical Conversion.
The Lost saga is a history lesson, going back maybe 7000 years and culminating in the present. The Israeli-Hebrew history is vital to understand the world in which we live in today.
Doc Jenson and J Woods are both beginning to see shades of a real world connection.
Argh! Blogger just made me do the WV three times, and then erased my whole comment. Good morning!
Okay, here it is (again), a couple of thoughts:
1) People have mentioned that some of the food/booze has the Swan logo on it. Perhaps this is because the Swan was the only station receiving food drops, as it's the only station where the inhabitants can't leave for an extended period of time. Folks from the Flame or the Staff could go to the other side of the island to pick up their food from a central location, but the Swans couldn't travel more than 54 minutes away.
2) If Radinsky was the one who cut the section out of the Swan film and that glass eye belongs to Patchy, then they may have come into contact with each other at some point, as both of those items were found together. Interesting then that the section that Radzinsky cut out of the film dealt with using the computer for communication, Patchy's main function.
3) In the translation of Ms. Klugh's orders, she says, "They captured us. We will not give (or let, or betray) [unintelligible]." Perhaps this is supposed to be, "They captured us. We will not betray Jacob." That could explain the drastic measures.
Has anyone seen what Closed Captioning was saying during the Russian conversation between Klugh and Patchy? Would it just say "Russian gibberish" or would it have a translation?
Hi All! I haven't been able to watch this weeks epi yet (ABC player wasn't working yesterday) so no comments.
However, I did find this really awesome speed painting of Locke on YouTube, all done in Photoshop, time lapsed down to 5 minutes. Rediculous detail. Definitely check it out.
Later!
memphis
LOL
"TBM, just wondering if you think ABC helped kill Kennedy too? JK. Keep pushing against The Man"
I have not researched Kennedy's death in a high level of detail.
Damon Lindelof did an interview with Brad Meltzer Author of "The Book of Fate".
While the article doesn't address the Kennedy subject, it is still an interesting read:
http://perezhilton.com/topics/media_minute/the_literate_bunch_20060905.php
memphish, Dark UFO has the translation. It's pretty much her telling him to do it, him saying no there's another way, back and forth until- I'm sorry- boom
What if - the guy that jumped off of hurley's acct office was- Libby's husband. Did they say how he died?
Memphish
Closed captioning just says speaking Russian.
Morning LoCos!
memphish- thanks for the Doc Jensen link. Going to read that now.
Just a couple of thoughts before I go:
I re-watched last night and noticed that Patchy said that the DI were the ones who started the Purge against the Hostiles. Not a big deal, but I know some of the theories we were bouncing around had the Hostiles attacking the DI. Looks like the DI started the whole brew haha.
Second, at the end, before the Flame blew up, Locke sort of excitedly came up to Patchy and said something like "I know now why you didn't want me to win that chess game"...and then the Flame blew up. Made me wonder if there was more to Marvin Candles message than we saw- that came after the menu of enter commands. Maybe Locke has a secret. This is purely speculation I know, but after the Lost and Found info yesterday, I just wonder if Locke isn't so dumb as he's playing, and maybe he does have some kind of agenda. (then again maybe I'm just a hopeless Locke fan who is trying to justify his shameless computer obsession)
Thanks Sayid's Girl and Keesh. There's a part that's unintelligible. I was hoping CC would have given it too us.
Scoutpost, it's so hard to know what to believe from Patchy. Of course people on both sides of the War of Northern Agression as Capcom called it each say the other started it too, though the South fired first. And I hope you're right about Locke. I want my Season 1 Locke back!
Off to read article from TBM.
There is some time missing, when Locke is alone with that computer. Maybe there was more to the message that we didn't see. Or maybe Locke just assumed that entering the code would bring help, since the other options all dealt with contacting the outside world.
Also, Patchy said that he never won the game because the computer cheats - is it possible that this is true? Maybe he didn't know that message was there, because someone always made sure that he lost.
Or maybe it's not really a game. We've all been saying that it's ridiculous to have your help menu stuck behind a chess game (what if the only survivor of an attack sucked at chess?). Maybe you don't have to win the game to get to the maessage, you just have to enter a certain set of moves. Someone also said that when the computer told Locke that he had won, the computer still had moves left - maybe Locke didn't win, he just input the correct "code."
Could it be that someone was back in the Pearl watching Locke at the computer and actually playing the back side of the chess game allowing Mr. "I Must Push the Button" to win so that Locke would "out-smart" Patchy and enter 77?
TBM that's a fun interview. I like the Robots vs. Zombies question especially.
memphis, I liked it too and I just love Lindelof's brain.
Break Time Here...BBL
This is from Things I Noticed post at DarkUFO. It was so funny I had to bring it over here.
Locke = Gilligan
Causing Boone's death... imploding the swan hatch... burning down the flame station... Locke is fast becoming the island's Gilligan. Soon he'll be locking everyone in a bamboo jail while the rescue plane flies overhead. I can imagine Jack smacking him in the head with his hat - if Jack had a hat. Maybe Jack should work on sleeves first.
memphish said...
Could it be that someone was back in the Pearl watching Locke at the computer and actually playing the back side of the chess game allowing Mr. "I Must Push the Button" to win so that Locke would "out-smart" Patchy and enter 77?
Oooooh! I bet that is a good possibility. Maybe that is why Patchy said that the computer "cheats" and why he has never won- because someone didn't want Patchy to win and see the help menu (buy why wouldn't they want Patchy to see the menu? hmmm) And of course there is the other question of why they would let Locke win. Did someone else want the Flame to go up in Flames?
Locke=Gilligan
Now it all makes sense!
scoutpost... Locke blowing up the station or learning more from Candles message that we know of -- maybe this goes with us being told to pay attention to Boones dialogue in 'Further Instructions'. Boone says, "John, someone in this airport is in serious danger. You are the only one who can save them." Everyone else was ruled out except John himself.
Maybe John is on his way to saving himself? If he hasn't already by blowing up the station.
Morning, all! There will probably be another post before I can get my coffee and come back, but Just In Case, here's my placeholder.
(yawn)
Happy Zuday, everyone. (uh, I mean Friday)
Kelvin was in the CIA or American military; Bakunin claimed to be in the Soviet military; Goodwin said he was in the Peace Corps, but had that 20-year-old US Army knife; and now the living area is called The Barracks. Why all the military connections? And don't forget how well everyone seems to be able to fight and shoot (even 3 year on island Juliet.)
And I forgot we've also got Desmond, Sayid, Kate's dad all in the military. And where did Jack learn to shoot a rope.
My last wv which did not work started "jgz" but it did not continue "350."
I still have a question about the Russian document/paper that Locke picked up. It seems we are to assume that since there was a typewriter next to it and a paper actually in the typewriter, that someone/Mikhail was typing something. As far as the translations go, it appears to be something about the war in Afghanistan, perhaps about Sayid with references to "Nadji" and Pakistani intelligence, and also it is speaking about someone named Andrey. The part that has me puzzled is the red handwritten notes- the first one translates to say: "My name is Andrey too" or something close to that, and the second red handwritten note says something like "I have forgotten so much about Afghanistan". So who is Andrey? Andrey obviously wrote the red comments. Is Andrey Mikhail's real name? or Was someone named Andrey living in the Flame and conveniently not there when the Losties arrived? I guess it could have been the DI person who was there initially, but the typewriter and papers weren't dusty. It seems like the papers were fairly recently typed.
I agree memphish- there certainly a lot of people who can "take care of themselves" or have survival/military type training. But then there are also the Charlies, the Claires and the Hurleys on the beach who basically don't do anything.
It is interesting though all the military recruits on the Other's side though- Kelvin, Mikhail, Goodwin, etc.
scoutpost - that's what I'm thinking. Which begs the question, if Patchy is not Dharma, he may be a hostile himself. If "someone" has been protecting that message from him, wouldn't that "someone" have to be Dharma themselves? If that's the case, where are they?
Scoutpost,
There is a "fuller" translation of the documents in Pop Candy's Lost Comment Highlights. From what I've seen the name in the documents is not the same that Sayid used as his alias though they sound very similar. So I don't know what the documents mean. Some speculate that they are Patchy's cover story, but then why does he tell Sayid he's Mikhail if he's Andrey? Don't know.
I'm out of here. I'll be back a week from Monday. Hope everyone has a great weekend and enjoys Ep. 3.12.
Sign #108 you are obsessed with LOST -- you are taking your DVR with you so that you can watch 3.12 on your own terms.
Two more thoughts:
1) Could Andrey be Ms. Klugh? She seems to only have a last name so far - maybe she's Andrey Klugh?
2) Perhaps Juliet was not brought to the island to help the Others, but instead to keep her research out of the real world. Someone commented about this last night (sorry, I'm too lazy to seek it out and find out who), but that would make sense if they believed that things were going to happen to change the world. Maybe they wanted to stop her, so they lured her to the island with the promise of research and are now keeping her prisoner.
Have fun memphish! See you in a week (and a half).
Melissa_Lossa said...
1) Could Andrey be Ms. Klugh? She seems to only have a last name so far - maybe she's Andrey Klugh?
In the second finale when they are all on the dock Tom calls her Bea and she responds by calling him Tom. SO I think we already had her first name from that moment on.
I sort of like Doc's theory... and I hate Phil's theory. That doesn't make any sense to me.
Well I have decided to cut Locke some slack regarding his computer behaviors SINCE I seem to have the same problem. I can't stay away from the computer either- even though I have more important things I need to be doing. Instead of saying "want to play a game" mine seems to keep saying "want to talk more about LOST?"
Here is another thought about Locke blowing up the Flame. I really think memphish may have hit the nail on the head when she asked if rather than playing the computer in chess that there was someone else on the other side playing Locke. Maybe they didn't want the Losties to have the communication stuff in the Flame, knew Locke was a sucker for playing, etc. and would enter 77 given the chance, so they set him up to do that. And/or maybe Locke knew he was being watched, picked up on the fact that he was not playing the "computer" based on what Mikhail said, and followed the trail they were leading him down- trusting the Flame would self destruct somehow- so that they could not leave the island. Like someone said yesterday, in season 1&2 Locke did not want to leave the island, and has taken actions before to thwart the effort. eh just a thought
Another question (sheesh this episode left me with so many questions):
Regarding the underwater/sonar cable. Mikhail said they used it to guide the vessels to bring people to the island and then they talked about submarines. Why does everyone who comes to the island have to come via submarine?
BTW, Here is the Buddy TV interview with Damon and Lindeloff, mentioned by Thinbluemime. It contains spoilers, but mostly explanations/confirmations of what has already happened.
TBM, I read something interesting about Amira's "Cat in the box" story... there is a Quantum Mechanics theory called Schrödinger's Cat, which is also about a "cat in a box".
I don't quite understand it, but I think it has something to do with not being able to measure something without altering the state of what you are measuring.
I wonder if there is some relation between the two, and if it ties into the island story in general. Obviously the actions of the Losties are affected by the observation and interference of the Others...
Many good posts today, posters!!
If Patchy was exiled or outcasted, maybe Ms. Klugh liked him and snuck out to visit and help him the way that Jack is being Juliet's only friend? And also, could Klugh have ben wearing a kevlar vest and not be dead? I have to watch again and see if there is any blood, or just a big hole in her clothes.
TBM..."What the hello"...I like that phrase, and I'm going to steal it! :o) Anyway, maybe the DI is just a bunch of crazy Freemasons trying to rebuild the Temple of Solomon on the island? Not that Freemasons are crazy, just this group is.
Hey, that's just what they call the "Civil War" down here in the south. You'd better not get caught calling it "The Civil War" here, I gather. And I can NEVER say that I am a Yankees fan from NY either...them's fighting words. :o) They get the whole Union/Yankee and Yankee baseball thing all mixed up for some reason. Sour grapes I guess.
Isn't "Andrey" Russian for Andrew, and it is also sometimes in the form of "Andreyev"?
Again, great posts everyone! And thanks a zillion for even more links to even more Lost info, this is great.
Please Doc Jensen, ask TPTB if Locke is actually supposed to be their version of Gilligan! :-D
oh, ded, you're right. I forgot all about that! Shoot - there goes that theory. :)
Scoutpost - that's a good question about the subs. I also wondered why again, Patchy seemed so surprised that they had a sailboat. All of the Others seemed so mystified by this. Is it just because they never found it, or something more?
scoutpost, good question, but the answer is unknown at this time.
Here is what we do know.
Lenny and Sam Toomy were monitoring LONG wave radio signals, when they first picked up the "Hurley Numbers"
Lenny was Hurley's friend in the asylum, that was obsessed with connect 4.
Sam, we never met, was the husband of Martha, who relayed the story to Hurley during his Oz visit.
LONG wave radio waves are used in water, in the event of a disturbance in the atmosphere, that prevents normal communications.
This wiki link may help:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequency
scoutpost said... Second, at the end, before the Flame blew up, Locke sort of excitedly came up to Patchy and said something like "I know now why you didn't want me to win that chess game"...and then the Flame blew up. Made me wonder if there was more to Marvin Candles message than we saw- that came after the menu of enter commands. Maybe Locke has a secret. This is purely speculation I know, but after the Lost and Found info yesterday, I just wonder if Locke isn't so dumb as he's playing, and maybe he does have some kind of agenda. (then again maybe I'm just a hopeless Locke fan who is trying to justify his shameless computer obsession)
I love this theory. That would explain a lot, and make John not seem so stupid.
ib4uc said... scoutpost... Locke blowing up the station or learning more from Candles message that we know of -- maybe this goes with us being told to pay attention to Boones dialogue in 'Further Instructions'. Boone says, "John, someone in this airport is in serious danger. You are the only one who can save them." Everyone else was ruled out except John himself.
What about Eko? I thought this was pretty clear when that episode aired... john blew up the hatch and needed to save Eko to clean up his mess... Maybe there is something else in the Airport flashback to look at...
Melissa_Lossa said...I also wondered why again, Patchy seemed so surprised that they had a sailboat. All of the Others seemed so mystified by this. Is it just because they never found it, or something more?
I think it shows that the Others had no idea about Kelvin, Desmond, or the Swan station, or at least some of them were on a need-to-know basis.
Maybe everyone seems so surprised by the sailboat because for whatever reason, above water boats can't make it to the island. That's why they always use the subs.
That would mean there was something special that happened when Des made it through, and Michael and Walt are screwed. Unless the specific bearing allows them to either sail out or meet up with another vessel that can.
If the Others only use subs to leave the island and above water boats to travel between islands, then the question is: early in the season when Colleen said that the sub was back, where had it been? Taking Michael and Walt home perhaps? Or visiting the outside world for another reason?
Good question Melissa about why everyone is so surprised about Dezzy's sailboat. That leads one to think that Ben, et.al., were not aware of the fact that Dez had arrived via boat, and were not aware that Kevlin was trying to fix it up. Oui? That also begs the question of whether or not Ben was actually on his way to the Swan for any purposeful reason. Although, Ben may have been waiting for some kind of periodical communication from Kelvin and/or Radzinsky, and when none came, then Ben went to see why the Swan was not blowing up if something was wrong with Kelvin or Rad. OR, maybe Ben was just going to check out the Lostaways for himself, since Goodwin never returned, and Ethan did not return from trying to recapture Claire. Did Ben know that the Swan was still functional, or did he even care??? I think that everything that he told the Lostaways in the Swan was total BS, just like all the lies the Others tell them to throw them off track and keep them completely in the dark.
I find the whole "did Otherville and the Hydra Station know about the Swan being active" question very intriguing and frustrating! And it seems as if this weeks ep has just poured more Qs about it on top of what was already there with the whole purge-vs-incident-hostiles issue.
dennis
"Schrödinger's Cat", that's Stephen Hawkins territory, LOL
capcom
"maybe the DI is just a bunch of crazy Freemasons trying to rebuild the Temple of Solomon on the island?"
What if the island is in a time warp, that allows the others to begin again, with a fresh start?
Would the second chance result in a different outcome?
I dont know :)
But the Temple Mount is there, put there by the Lost creators in the Roger Workman map, and then discounted by the same creators. I ask, why? :)
Here is an Eko quote from S2E9: Mr. Eko What the secretary had found was an ancient book... the Book of Law. You may know it as the Old Testament. And it was with that ancient book, not with the gold, that Josiah rebuilt the temple. On the other side of the island we found a place much like this, and in this place we found
a book.
"Now that HAS to Creep Ya out" :)
Wasn't 'the sub is back', about the crew sent for Sayid, Jin, and Sun being back...with a dead Colleen?
Also concerning subs, maybe since the DI's island project began during the Cold War, they decided that using as much sub travel as possible would be more discrete and undetectable in international waters?
I agree, capcom - it is curious. :)
I have always thought that Ben went to the Swan specifically to get them to stop pushing the button. If that's the case, then he must have known that someone was there, and that the Losties were in there now. So, I'm guessing that they knew about Kelvin and probably Des. What they DIDN'T know was that Desmond's boat also made it to the island and that Kelvin was fixing it up. Even if they were in contact with Kelvin, he could have told them that the boat sank out at sea, and Des just washed up.
I also agree that the Incident and the Purge were too different events. I don't know why, but I get the impression that the Dharma crew that inhabited the island before the Incident and the crew from after were not the same people. Maybe that could explain why the Others allowed Dharma to set up camp on the island and then turned on them.
TBM, maybe the DI story actually is just a story about Pagans-vs-Old Testament followers! And then all the millions of sub-stories intertwined therein. :o)
I really like the Shangri-La aspect of Lost as well. But in Shangri-La (in the book Lost Horizon) all the religions got along well together and didn't try to purge each other out.
dennis said... What about Eko? I thought this was pretty clear when that episode aired... john blew up the hatch and needed to save Eko to clean up his mess
Eko did not appear in John's dream sequence, only his Jesus stick.
In the previous thread, memphish said Some interesting things from the Official LOST podcast -- The guy who does the magazine says that we might want to rewatch Locke's dream sequence in Further Instructions especially paying attention to Boone's dialogue. So, the dream sequence was dissected again. I came to the conclusion that maybe it wasn't Eko who John was supposed to save, but John himself.
You're right Melissa, how could they not know about Dez, with all those cameras!!! And sure, as fed up as Kelvin was acting with the whole deal, he very well could have told Ben that someone happened to wash up on shore, sans transportation, that he kept for himself (assuming that he knew about bearing 325--and assuming that bearing 325 works)!
See, that's why I come here, to get straightened out. One thousand heads are much better than one! :o)
Melissa_Lossa said...
Maybe everyone seems so surprised by the sailboat because for whatever reason, above water boats can't make it to the island. That's why they always use the subs. ... That would mean there was something special that happened when Des made it through, and Michael and Walt are screwed. Unless the specific bearing allows them to either sail out or meet up with another vessel that can.
Is it possible that Michael and Walt were given directions that would take them to straight Alcatraz island/The Hhydra, where they were captured and now are occupying Room 22 and Room 21, right next to were they found Karl.
Kate and Sawer could have saved them if they only knew...
Wow Dennis, that would be an awesome twist! How did they word that promise to Michael?.....that they would give him a way to get "off this island"? Haha, the jokes on Mike! And payback for his murders.
You know, I may have to stop reading Doc Jensens theories, they sound so plausible that I am afraid he might have some things correct and spoil the surprise.
capcom
"In Shangri-La (in the book Lost Horizon) all the religions got along well together and didn't try to purge each other out."
I know, a Utopia would be nice, but unfortunately the Losties are "Lost In A Hollow World", unlike Shangri-La.
Whether we believe we as a human race, sprang from the heart of the ocean, or the heart of god, we are still all brothers and sisters.
Am I my brother's keeper?
We better be :)
Capcom,
You are indeed correct about the Sub. It was Juliet who said the sub was back to Ben not Collen, she was dead at the time and I do believe they were addressing them coming back with the sailboat from the ferry dock. This is why they made an effot to have Sayid explain it away, by saying something along the lines of "Thats hoe they got passed my position."
See I don't always have to disagree with you, it just seems that way because we both have very strong opinions and theories that we stick to... at least until TPTB change everything again... LOL
Melissa_Lossa said...
I have always thought that Ben went to the Swan specifically to get them to stop pushing the button.
It seems likely that Ben went to the Swan to get Jack -- he needed spinal surgery. The chatter with Locke was a separate "Others" mind-game of the type that they always engage in.
When Jack didn't buy his story about being the marooned Henry Gale, he needed to plan an escape and devise a new strategy to get Jack's cooperation. Michael was able to serve both his purposes very well.
Of course, it begs the question of how he managed to arrange the escape and capture of Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley while locked up in the safe. The simple answer to that is that he used the DharmaTel terminal (a.k.a. the Swan hatch "numbers" computer) to send Bea ("Ms. Klugh") a distress message, perhaps via Mikhail at the Flame station. Bea then struck the deal with Michael, accomplishing Ben's goals, although he wasn't completely happy about the deal.
All of this does not preclude the possibility that Ben had additional goals in visiting the Swan which might have something to do with keeping the numbers from being entered. But I think mission #1 was to get Jack.
I forgot to add that he had access to the computer terminal during the "Lockdown" epsisode, when he climbed through the air duct to enter the numbers since Locke was trapped under the blast door.
That's probably why he didn't just escape then... he didn't have time because he was typing, and he still wouldn't have Jack anyway, his priority #1.
BTW. This fits in nicely with the theory that Ben and Danielle have history together, and Ben cut some sort of deal with her to get her to turn him over to Jack without revealing her knowledge of him.
Oh, capcom - you're right about the sub. Man, I'm off my game today!
engineer - I like your theory about Jack, but it seems a rather convoluted plan. If he was going to get Jack, why not just have someone snatch him? If Jack HAD bought the story about him being Henry Gale, then what? He still had to lure him to the other side of the island.
My thoughts about the button come from the time that he spent with Locke trapped under the blast door. If Ben just wanted to escape, he could have done it then easily. He also told Locke that he did not push the button - when clearly, he must have. In my mind, the only reason to do that was to convince Locke that there was no need to push the button.
Also, I got the impression that while Ben was gone, Bea and Tom took it upon themselves to make the deal - that's why Ben wasn't too happy about it. I think they believed that Ben had been captured, when really, he set the whole thing up.
Hey Ded, I didn't say that we disagree! (that was Chuck!) :o) I think that our ideas mesh and interweave quite nicely.
Right Melissa, it is starting to seem as if Ben wanted either the non-input meltdown to happen, or the failsafe to be applied (but he would have to have known that Dez knew about that and had the key). Perhaps either event would have resulted in a similar outcome which would be favorable to whatever Ben's scheme was/is. It really looks as if Ben is tweeking just the slightest smile when he looks up into the sky and sees the purple and hears the sonic screech. And I don't think that he put his hands up to his ears like everyone else either, as if the screech was actually the proverbial "music to his ears", because he so wanted or needed that to happen (but I could be remembering that part incorrectly).
capcom, that's exactly what I thought as well, about Ben's reaction to the purple sky. He seems happy about it.
Also, I'm not sure that Des was back in the hatch at all before he came in with Locke to stop pushing the button. Ben may not have know that he was back, and therefore would think that the failsafe wouldn't happen.
Capcom,
Whoops you are correct sir!
I meant to say that earlier and somehow having it on my mind I ended up calling you Chuck.
Chuck... I meant that as to the BB-Q statement you made earlier. I want to give Locke the boot... lol
Also Cap, (awwww poor Cap'n America), sorry.
He did have a sort of poop eatin grin on when it first starts but as it gets louder he does actually cover his ears, but he is definitely happy for a second.
Wow, I like where this is going. I have also thought that Ben was very deliberate in his planting doubt in Locke re: the button. I still don't know why he wanted the button to not be pushed. I like the theory that he did not count on the failsafe key being turned. I think he was waiting for something else to happen.
Re: why he didn't just grab Jack. He needed to have Sawyer and Kate come too, since his plan was to break Jack by using his affection for Kate and jealousy of Sawyer to make Jack turn against the Losties and fix Ben, maybe become the Other doctor permanently. J/K/S was always a package deal for Ben.
Here's a thought:
Maybe the observation station on Falcatraz couldn't see into the Swan station. Only the Pearl station was set up to see into the Swan. Maybe no one observed Desmond, and they either just thought it was Kelvin the whole time, or thought the Swan was nonfunctional. Either way, then flight 815 crashes and now there's a reason to fire up the cameras for that part of the Island, and the Swan is discovered in use. Surveillance begins, but they miss seeing Desmond.
This could explain why they didn't know about the boat, why they still don't know about the boat.
Maybe they don't know about Desmond.
what do you think?
What if Radzinskys first name was Roger? Seems he went around the island a lot. Why not in the VW. Or maybe he accompanied Roger anyway. If my booze trade idea is correct then that could mean he had met with patchy. Perhaps they were fleeing Patchy when they were caused to crash and if Radzinsky was a passenger maybe he fled on foot (with roger already dead) and perhaps he had the eye in his possesion at the time. Alternatively if he is Roger perhaps he had already met Patchy, taken his eye and was caught out when he found Patchy had taken over the Flame.
I have to admit I am still kinda hoping Radzinsky is alive and somewhere on the island. It would be nice to have some of the previously mentioned characters crop up rather then constantly creating new ones as seems to be happening at the moment.
On a side note. The Losties really need to start working better as a team. Sure Locke was working independantly when he pressed that button and didn't tell his companions about it, but then they didn't tell him that the whole place was wired to blow. I'm sure he would have put 2 and 2 together if they had. At least the Others can work together (save for Juliet of course).
Also I hate to say it again, but I don't think we should be accepting anything Patchy says as fact. Indeed we should consider it more likely that the opposite is true.
The failsafe key is interesting. It could be Ben knows more then he is letting on to the rest of the Others. He did seem the only one to have any kind of incling what was going on with the sky. Maybe Ben is infact a surviving Dharma Initiative member. Either that or he was just curious what would happen.
Also
*
*
Spoiler for preview reference (including the Canadian one)
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
It looks like the "other way" that Patchy was talking about probably involved whatever information he knew about Locke, from what the previews are suggesting.
*
*
*
*
*
*
I have been lurking for a while, but I believe when Locke went into the Flame to check it out, Bea somehow injected him with a mind altering substance, he helped to hide, and has been acting strange ever since (seemingly doing the bidding of the Others)
Amused2bHere said... Wow, I like where this is going. I have also thought that Ben was very deliberate in his planting doubt in Locke re: the button. I still don't know why he wanted the button to not be pushed. I like the theory that he did not count on the failsafe key being turned. I think he was waiting for something else to happen.
I don't think Ben had any idea what not pushing the button would do. Maybe he thought that the Swan was wired with C4, like the Flame, and would have just blown up - hopefully killing as many of the pesky, Henry Gale-torturing Losties.
Right Fenris, I wonder what is the current count of known-but-dead, and mentioned-but-not-met-yet, characters that we have in Lost (not including TLE or else the numbers would be astronomical!). :-D And hmmmmm, what you said in the spoiler is intruiging.
Interesting point Dennis about Ben perhaps thinking that the Swan would just blow up as did the Flame. But that smirk of his at the pruple sky.....I still can't get that out of my head. Unless, that facial expression was not as calculated by the actor as I am assuming, and really means nothing. Very possible.
Beau.....I'd say way back when Locke and Eko first found the Pearl there was more to that smoking cigarette than we think! :-D After all, Locke and Eko each did a sort of personality turn after that as well. JK, of course, but.......
I've been thinking about all the different factions on the island and their methods of recruitment.
It seems that the original Dharma Initiative team was recruited by Alvar Hanso.They were scientists thinking they were there to make a better world. Also, the DeGroot's involvement added a hippy-like, utopian, "We'd like to buy the world a Coke"-type of person.
We can't be really sure at this point of the story if there really are "hostiles" who were here long before DI (I really can't believe anything Patchy has said yet).
Then we have people recruited a little later after the initial start-up...Kelvin, Radinsky, Patchy. They answered ads placed by who? These are more from the military fields and training.
Then we have some more scientist-types recruited from Mittelos Bioscience...people like surgeon Ethan and fertility specialist Juliette (not military-types, although Juliette can fire a gun with no second thoughts).
Then there are the Losties...all people who are flawed and who have issues or are running from something.
I don't know where all this leads, but there are definitely different types of groups recruited to the island. And anyone of these groups could have split into different factions...either trying to gain power or wanting to their research to go another way.
FYI: Josh Holloway talks about the LOST curse in this People article.
maven... thanks for the Lost article. Reading Cynthia Watros' name made me wonder "What happened to her new show?" I can't remember the name of it and I don't recall ever seeing it or reading about it. Did it ever take off?
capcom said... Interesting point Dennis about Ben perhaps thinking that the Swan would just blow up as did the Flame. But that smirk of his at the pruple sky.....I still can't get that out of my head. Unless, that facial expression was not as calculated by the actor as I am assuming, and really means nothing. Very possible.
Maybe Ben was thinking "Ha Ha! They stopped pushing the button, and the C-4 blew up their hatch...wait a minute...why is the sky turning purple...my ears...my ears...oh crap, that's not what I expected!"
ib4uc: From Wikipedia--
After her departure from "Lost" , Watros filmed a pilot for CBS, a show titled "My Ex-Life", where she was slated to play the ex-wife of a character played by Tom Cavanagh. However, the pilot was not chosen by CBS to be on their fall schedule.
Maven, I like your thoughts on the different factions. I think it's possible that the change in Dharma recruitment was due to a change in policy from experimentation to containment. Containment of what I don't know. Of course we don't know if Patchy was recruited but it wouldn't make much sense to have a total crew of two people on an island with "hostiles" even if they are military trained. Perhaps the military group was recruited specifically for this "Purge". Whether it was a genuine purge or a defencive action.
I am constantly remembering the whole vaccination thing. It appears it doesn't kill anyone or at least it didn't kill anyone we've seen take it, nor has anyone that hasn't taken it been infected with anything. I would suspect that the vacine was some sort of solution to the Dharma project but it failed and caused people to in some way become the Others.
Perhaps there was some kind of whole complex project involving genetic changes and brain washing. Perhaps the idea was to create a Utopian society on the island totally isolated genetically, socially and psychologically from the rest of the world so that they can accurately test the outcome of the Valencetti equation. But once they had created the society, there were problems. Perhaps they even solved the Valencetti equation on the island and then the altered people decided that the rest of the world deserved to be destroyed and that they didn't want the research to get out. So they attacked the regular Dharma gang and took over. They also rigged the broadcasting numbers tower to continue to broadcast the unchanged equation.
But then they encountered a problem. The side effect of their treatment rendered them all infertile and so they developed an interest in kids and in recruiting Juliet.
Anyway, one possibility.
So has anyone come up with what Doc Jensen meant as the "latest iteration of a signature storytelling device, and you'll need Internet access or a library card to properly suss out its significance"
What signature storytelling device does he mean? Using flashbacks? nah. Come on, you writer/English major/literary buffs: help us out here. What storytelling device could he mean?
Fenris speaks of brainwashing. I'm convinced this is what happened to Locke (either in the flame or in the pearl) The season 1 Locke would have been on a mission to save Kate/Sawyer and Jack a long time ago. also, still think Locke is the next to be killed. Only problem with this is that we haven't heard his back story on how he got in the wheelchair.
Amused2bHere said...What signature storytelling device does [Doc Jensen] mean? Using flashbacks? nah. Come on, you writer/English major/literary buffs: help us out here. What storytelling device could he mean?
I think the device he was talking about was that one of the character's names was the same as a real life philosopher - Mikhail Bakunin. Bakunin was a Russian revolutionary, and often considered one of the “fathers of modern anarchism".
This is why he said "But be careful, kids: This is revolutionary stuff. If Big Brother sees you getting TOO obsessed with this Easter Egg, you might find yourself sent to Room 101 (or is that Room 23?) for some cultural reconditioning."
beauregard said... Fenris speaks of brainwashing. I'm convinced this is what happened to Locke (either in the flame or in the pearl) The season 1 Locke would have been on a mission to save Kate/Sawyer and Jack a long time ago.
I don't think Locke is brainwashed (when would this have happened?), I think he is on a mission. Ever since he found the hatch, he has been following the Island's orders. Until, he lost his faith and let the hatch explode. But now that Eko's stick has given him "further instructions", he has a mission again.
Elvis interviews Cuse and Lindelof
Lord Almighty, I feel My Temperature Rising....
http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/tt/tt070307damon_lindelof_and_c
Pass Me a Jelly Roll, Mamma :)
It's interesting that Locke is one character that we haven't learned a lot about despite not lacking in the numbers of flashbacks. They avoided the one obvious thing they could be showing us and all we've learned is that he is a bit of screw up and one that people (or his dad at least) take advantage of. Honestly it wouldn't suprise me if he turned out to be a Scientologist. Lol.
Okay joking aside I get the impression that the main driving force in Lockes life is a desire to find meaning. Well can't blame a fella for that, but he takes it perhaps a little bit too far.
One instinct I have about Locke is that the Island isn't the first time he's encountered the unexplainable. For Locke comming to the Island has almost been like a return home or like a return to the playground he used to frequent as a kid. Perhaps that is literally true, but maybe it is just that this bizzare world is more natural to Locke.
This is total specualtion here of course.
fenris,
since the
1)others think they are god like
2)and John Locke has been told he was immaculately conceived
3)and Locke longs for a family
4)and the others refer to themseves as family
5)maybe Locke will find what he has been searching for
in the community of the others.
speculation here also. wow, where did everybody go?
I think the deal with Locke is simply that he likes games. TPTB made that obvious that he likes to play games. Now he is forever searching for his lost childhood which is why he is so easy to understand. He does long for a family and this is what he used to search for. He now searches for something more then that. He searches for the unexplainable because he was crippled. That is all it took. Ask any person in wheelchair if they woke up one day with the use of their legs, if they would want to know why at all costs... I'll give you one guess at what the answer is going to be.
You can't deny Locke has been acting strangely. Perhpas he doesn't want to be able to communicate with the outside world, therefore blowing up the flame. (re the episode where he knocks out Sayid and destroys the transmitter)
Perhaps he was course corrected in the Swan implosion, or Bea injected him with a mind altering drug when he first went into the Flame, but Sayid is getting fed up with him. Are the Others the family he so desperately needs? He's proven to be very maleable as we saw in his cultish flashback.
Just some meandering Locke thoughts. Most of my theories are wrong anyway.
I think that you are on the mark about Locke Fenris. I especially sense that about him feeling somehow "at home" on the island. I think that was also possibly what he was looking for (a sense of belonging and/or being at home in nature) on the Walkabout that he never got to accomplish. And lo-and-behold, he unexpectedly lands on the island into the mystical, testing, dream world (where he could control his envirnment to some extent) that he was looking for.
I thought that Scientologists were totally aggressive type-A personalities. Well, as least the celeb-u-tards who are L.Ron-ites seem to be like that. :-)
: )
Post a Comment