Wednesday, October 25, 2006

EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF - SEASON 3, EPISODE 4








Is it going to be as bad as it looks for Sawyer? The promos (HERE, HERE, HERE, and HERE) for this episode have been the most intense to date. Get ready to find out exactly what happens to Sawyer, who it is that Kate confesses she "loves", and maybe some more insight into those mysterious new characters. Get excited, the party is here!

As always, our friend Jeff "Doc" Jensen over at Entertainment Weekly has some interesting things to say about our favorite show.

341 comments:

1 – 200 of 341   Newer›   Newest»
Administrator said...

I know I've posted kinda early but I'm heading out for the day and won't be back at a computer until after the episode starts on the East coast.

Hope you don't mind! :)

Dennis said...

Second! :)

isibell said...

Have fun Admin...we promise to be good till you get back.

Dennis said...

Reposting this from the previous comments...

ABC has set the start date for the second half of season 3:

From Zap2it: "Lost" will return to the schedule on Wednesday, Feb. 7, almost exactly three months after its final fall episode airs Nov. 8. The scheduling strategy is an effort by ABC to avoid repeats of the heavily serialized show; it has three more episodes to go in its initial run this fall and will have 16 weeks of uninterrupted episodes when it returns.

robc said...

lol omg how early its nearly 1 here so it cant be past 3 there! lol im v. bored btw, o and top 10 (how sad)

maven said...

Thanks for the post, Admin (you're probably gone already)!

Dennis: What are we going to do for 3 months! :( We all knew this was coming...but the reality is setting in!

thinbluemime said...

David, Hurry back. I have a feeling this episode is going to generate a lot of discussion.

thinbluemime said...

From the previous thread, "Dennis said... thinbluemime, What other LOST "show" boards do you go to and what are the spoiler rules there?

I dont want to detract from TLC. David and crew run a very clean and family friendly forum. Lord knows we need some decency on the internet.


But I like " alt.tv.lost " for the open, unmoderated, and uncensored exchange of ideas. At times the language and discourse can be rough. But as an adult, well past my blush prime, I have heard most every foul utterence. So the profanity, which is not really excessive by the regulars, I tolerate. But there are beautiful minds there also.

Spoilers are usually announced as a common courtesy, in the header field. Unfortunately the header field is a luxury unavailable to users of blogger.com, aka TLC. And yes, the debate over what is a spoiler goes on at alt.tv.lost as well.

I really like TLC, and lurk more then I post. But because of the "relaxed" rules in the other forum, it is difficult to adjust my thought process to censor those thoughts according to spoiler rules.

So while there may be no perfect solution (is there ever?), for me the happy medium is to bounce back and forth between forums. TLC has bright and beautiful minds also, and I hate to miss out :)

Creativity is a funny thing, sometimes it involves a thinking out loud process...sometimes those out loud thoughts are profane...... I guess I choose the creative and tolerate the profane....

I just "thought out loud" and I hope that made sense :)

miguelon said...

top ten?

Totengraber said...

HAPPY LOST DAY!!

miguelon said...

cool, but anyways this can or can't be classified as a spoiler but in the sixth episode i think we are going to see an apollo ad on a truck :) http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger2/4266/3587/320/278625069_58b56c5087.jpg

Totengraber said...

Hey Y'all

Did anybody see the NOVA repeat last night? They talked about "Magnetic Anomalies" in the South Pacific! It has somthing to do with a coming "Polar Shift"

Dig Y'all Later

miguelon said...

oh im wrong it's not sixth episode it's like the eight episode

capcom said...

Yes, Toten, that Nova ep was interesting! I did not see the entire show, did it talk about the mag anomalies found on the moon as well?

Does anyone know when ABC is supposed to air those so-called extended eps? Is that supposed to happen during the holiday break, or the summer break? It certainly would ease our pain if they at least ran reruns during the break till Feb.

BTW, from last post: whatever we decide about spoilers is fine with me too. I will re-read the orignal TLC rules. And I apologize if I've ever stepped beyond the spoilers boundaries for anyone. XO

Happy viewing tonight all!

Cam794 said...

yo wat up all i havnt posted in a while looks like this ep. is gonna reveal some important things about ze island according to the promos. i think Kates gonna chose Jack cuz didnt she say it in da promos??? or waz i hearing things and that voice say "Do you love him!!!" sounded like desmond not Herry or any of the other others lol other others tehehe

Pwyll said...

Lost in 20 minutes! =)

isibell said...

capcom - There is a whole different show taking the place of Lost during the break. A 13 ep show that's kind of a cross between 24 and groundhog day.

could be cool

Cam794 said...

p.s. south park is on rite after lost!! :P

ular98 said...

20 min. till lost...where do you live?

Pwyll said...

Canada here, I watch Lost on CTV =P

capcom said...

Isibell, no way! Rats, so I wonder when we get our extended eps, or was that just a rumor?! :-p

Pwyll must live in the Atlantic ocean. :-)

ular98 said...

Oh, OK..just wondering because I get it first on east coast station then if I miss that can catch it on west coast stations but the earliest is 8:00 pm...so I watch Jericho first

Cam794 said...

pwyll were do u live for me its still like 1 hour and 10 mins

Pwyll said...

7:48 here, Living in East timezone, Quebec City. Lost in 12 minutes =)

Pwyll said...

Unless they changed the schedule, wich I doubt

Cam794 said...

o ok nvm man u lucky :*( dont ruin any thing for us!

capcom said...

Well, Pwyll deserves some kind of prize for being in the earliest time-zone!

Ular98, I watch Jerico too, so far so good. But not as good as Lost yet. And so far not too many characters are that compelling, beyond the members of the main family in the story.

Pwyll said...

8:00pm
Lost
9:00pm
Criminal Minds
10:00pm
CSI New York


Yup, =)
Nope, I won't post about that episode. I'll just chat will fellow TLCers =). People don't know me because I don't post alot since I'm french (May Hengliesch are very very fonny!), but I read what people says religiously =P

LOST IN 5 MINS =D

Megs said...

Hooray for all us Canucks! The one time in life I get to watch a show without staying up til some ridiculous hour.

PS. Just wanted to say that I really enjoyed the podcast this week! Keep them coming.

PPS. It's on!

capcom said...

Pwyll, your posts are welcomed and great, and maybe you can teach us some French along the way! :-) Especially whenever Rousseau comes back into the picture, you can translate for us if needed again!

Cam794 said...

dam still 1 hour here for us Americans :( i wache lost 9:00 then south park 10:00

ular98 said...

Yes, Jericho is okay...it isn't going to be in a close catagory with Lost...it keeps me busy till Lost comes on though.

Pwyll said...

Hehe, Yeah, Pretty easy to translate Rousseau's stuff for me =P

I'm going to count the number of ads they'll give us this week.

One!

ular98 said...

After Lost, I switch over to Sci Fi and watch that new Investigator thing with Boston Rob in it, and Ghost Hunters (TAPS)

Pwyll said...

Second ad!

Thrasher76 said...

Happy Lost night!!! Enjoy the epi!!!

perdido said...

Happy Lostday all! Only 32 minutes til the new episode!

maven said...

You lucky Eastcoasters, French and Canadians! 3 1/2 hours for us PDT-ers! :(

I'll be going off-line until the westcoast is done! Enjoy!

Cam794 said...

yea i wish i still got the sci-fi channel but they took it off here and i LOVE The Twilight Zone

Cam794 said...

ah maven dat sux!

LostinFrogurt said...

I'll be back after lost you guys!

Pwyll said...

Just finished watching it. You guys don't want to miss the end, I'm telling you!

clumsymegs said...

Oh wow. I just want everyone else to see it, so I can start reading posts and everyone's reactions!

LuckyGuyLikeMe said...

Is my blogger just screwed up or is no one here?

LuckyGuyLikeMe said...

Just in case it is working, here's what I thought...

Best episode of the season by far! I loved the lack of commercial breaks compared to the first 3 episodes.

I was confused by what happened with Sawyer in the prison. Did they just pay him because of what he did, or was he only in there to extract info from others, or what? And how much did he get paid?

capcom said...

Wowsers!!!!!!! Well, all I'll say for now, till everyone gets to watch it, is that we got a whopping 40 minute show tonight (so says my VCR counter), including the "previously on Lost" bit.

I have to watch it again. Can't wait till everyone has seen it!

capcom said...

P.S., for our homework, could someone please view Rousseau's maps to see if they jive with what we see in this ep? I read some info on the Lostpedia site about a marker/label on one of her maps, but I'm not sure that it is correct. Mainly because other things that we learned about the island since first seeing the maps just not match with what is on the L-pedia reference. Anyway, enjoy West Coasters!

sean said...

blogger has been crazy all day.

Pwyll said...

capcom : I speak french, I can do it easily, but tomorrow. *sleepy* =)

sean said...

so there are two lost islands now?

sean said...

that must be why no "others" came to the trap fire syid set up in episode 2.

sean said...

that must also be how the others snuk onto the boat in the first place, without sayid or jin knowing.

sean said...

i still liked the second episode this season better than this one.

sean said...

and im talking to myself.

hopefully there's more activity tomorrow.
goodnight

Polleekin said...

I thought this was a great episode. I can't believe there are two islands, it will be interesting to see where they go with this.

Goog said...

Indeed! The best episode of the season! And boy, will Dave and I have a lot to talk about on the next Podcast!
Hey, if anyone wants to leave us a voicemail to include in the podcast, you can call 201-600-0952.
Can't wait to hear your thoughts.

Administrator said...

Captain Obvious here to declare that, "That was an AWESOME episode!" Kate & Sawyer aren't as self-centered as we think they are. Desmond is still predicting the future. Paulo is still awkward and random. Is Jack being conned too or is there really a tumor (I think there is really a tumor but it could be an elaborate play on him)? A submarine and a second island...hmmm...

capcom said...

OK, I guess Westies are busy watching the ep and won't get "spoiled" if I mention this. Here is a list of maps on the Blackrock website that folks have put together (not to say that they are correct, but their efforts are nice):

http://www.blackrock.nl/content/view/24/42/

On the L-pedia site, someone mentioned tonight that Rousseau marked a small islet (south) on her map as "Alex", possibly marking where Alex was being held. Is one of these islets where Othertown is, i.e., the top of which Benry, Sawyer, et.al., were standing? And if so, I don't really understand what the big reveal was supposed to be to Sawyer. Ok, the big island has some baby islands. Did I miss the point? Thanks.

LuckyGuyLikeMe said...

I have a feeling the second island is/was hidden. I think this 'second island' might be the place where Benry told Michael to sail to. He had to know exactly where to sail to because he couldn't see it. I can't wait until next week!

oh2dc said...

-- potential spoiler if you haven't watched yet tonight --



Ok, my big question after tonight's episode (if anyone's still on here...) is just how much do the others know about the function of the swan station. When Sawyer is coming to after being knocked out by ben we hear one of the others (tom, I think) talking about how it's been two days "since the sky turned purple" and how they have apparently lost communication with the outside world since then. Do the others know the fail-safe was tripped in the hatch? Do they even know the button was real? Etc. It seems odd that they wouldn't know about the fail safe, but Ben would know enough about the landscape of the losties island to draw a map from the hatch to Henry Gale's balloon.

Also, is Otherville on the same Island as the Hydra Station, or is it on Lostie Isle? (Seems to be the latter based on the fact that Ben told Goodwin he could make the Tailies crash site if he ran...)

Also, can someone refresh my memory if we've actually seen the Hydra station on a map anywhere? I just looked back at the blast door map and it didn't look like any of those were the Hydra, esp since we now know where it really is. But I remember the producers said in the last podcast that Jack etc were definitely being held in the Hydra.

Appologies for the long post, and if I'm covering redundant teritory. I've been mostly an infrequent lurker so far, but tonight's episode really piqued my interest.

capcom said...

Hmmm, Oh2dc, I didn't catch them saying that, I really need to watch again. That's interesting. The whole deal about how much the Others know about the Swan/blast/purplesky is the big Q. Especially since then-Fenry faked knowing about it, faked that it was inconsequential, and faked pushing or not pushing the button, to Locke. But someone (who smokes) was most likely in the Pearl station watching the Losties in the Swan, or so we are led to speculate.

Otherville and the Hydra could be in very separate locales, but they would have to have some serious underground transport system to get around like that. Even just some major tunnelage without mechanical transport would be possibly needed.

BTW, could this non-seeable island be where the cable that Sayid found be leading to? And perhaps was Desmond goofily throwing rocks out into that general direction last week because he senses something out there?

oh2dc said...

Capcom, good call on the cable leading to Hydra Island. Although I'm not necessarily sure it's unseeable, in that it's invisible to outsiders. Remember, Ben and Sawyer went on a pretty steep climb to get a view of the other island on the horizon. It might just not be visible from the beach because of distance, curve of the earth, horizon, etc. (clearly i'm not a science expert)

Also, I think the others have some sort of submarine, likely the "galaga" (i think that was the name) that was referred to in the second episode. I think that's how they got on the sailboat w/o Jin and Sayid seeing them. And in this episode just before Colleen is brought back on a stretcher, someone says, "the sub is back" or something to that effect

As for the smoldering cig in the Pearl station, I think that, plus the apparant lack of knowledge about the fail safe in this episode reinforces the idea that the others aren't necessarily dharma folks, or at least are no longer part of dharma. The producers did say there were two groups of others, if I recall correctly.

capcom said...

But, even thought the Others might not be Dharma, they could be utilizing a lot of the old D.I. equipment anyway.

The sub thing would be nice, if they had some kind of Captain Nemo thing going on too, for their previous underwater research!

Dangit, more questions than answers once again. :-)

oh2dc said...

Another one I just thought of, after reading the lostpedia board, if the Hydra is on another island, then how did the polar bears get to lostie isle? I doubt they can swim that far...

Btw, are there only two people on here now??

capcom said...

True, I guess it's vous et moi until the Westies finish their episode.

Ask Dark Angel how far polar bears can swim, he knows! :-)

I guess I'm out for tonight. Looking forward to blogging tomorrow. G'night oh2dc!

oh2dc said...

g'night;

i just hope we get some answers before whatever massive cliffhanger tptb have planned for two weeks from now

n.i.k. said...

Drastic improvement over last week's, so I feel it's time to return from my originally work-imposed exile. Best of the season...well, debatable. Best flashback so far? Yes, definitely. Not so insightful, but damn, at least it was *interesting* and had some movement to it. Once again Sawyer's shown to be the badboy with the deep-down heart of gold.

The guy who played the warden also played this bastard gangsterish fellow on BSG last season, and man, is he great at playing bipedal buttholes! Add this guy to your spot-the-character-actor list, folks, I think we've got a typecast. :)

As for the second island...now we know another reason why Ben was eager to get the sailboat. It's also interesting to know that the Others are confused by the consequences of the failsafe activation, and don't even seem to know its source. If they've really lost contact (and I will be *ahem* acquiring tonight's ep for review of said dialogue!), Ben's promise about taking Jack back to civilization himself might gain new meaning.

Colleen's death? Hurrah. I hated her from the beginning...no way a character who shacks up with Pickett is going to be likeable. Pickett is King A**hole of the Other's goonsquad and really needs to get whomped good. Hell, Tom's turned out to be likeable, Juliette's likeable, even Ben's likeable...but this guy's a real jerk, and that was before his fugly woman got done in.

The remarks from Juliette about nothing similar to this having happened before is pretty interesting, too. If these are in fact the Dharma folk, or even a few remnants, there goes the rise-up + sabotage theory. I'm dying for it to be past the gap already, because I'm dying to know who these people are and (more importantly) what they're doing.

(sigh) None of my patented speculation or theorizing for now, kids, the six-episode arc is slow-going and is largely a tease. As soon as we find out some significant info, I'll be back in the same shape I was back in the summer of TLEC (though minus the kvetching about Apollo Bar promo mishaps). Good night!

Friday's_Child said...

Benry told Sawyer that Hydra Island was approx. "twice the size of Alcatraz Island" in the San Francisco Bay. That means that Hydra is almost 38 acres...not all that large...

I found this whole episode to be quite puzzling, and not very forthcoming.

oh2dc said...

So I just went back and re-watched the beginning of episode 1; based on the hydra island being twice the size of alcatraz, it's nearly impossible that's where otherville is, based on how large otherville island seemed when the camera zooms out. But what if there are actually (at least) three islands. Otherville abuts a large mountain range that could obscure the ocean immediately on the other side of it, separating it from hydra island and lostie isle. Not sure why this would be the case, but it seems possible ....

Vic said...

Great episode..I wish that Jack would of saved that woman's life. Then he might be able to bargain with them.. But then again they're the "others"..I'm very curious about Desmond..I hope they explain more about him in the upcoming few episodes we have left. =[ good night..

TheBookPolice said...

Some thoughts on previous comments, and my own observations:

-Polar bears can swim comfortably for 20-40 miles (global warming, of course, is forcing them well beyond this comfort zone).

-Otherville was on the Losties' island. If memory serves, you could see the tail section crash site from the aerial view of Otherville just before the end of the open.

-I dig the idea of Desmond knowing that something important lies in the direction of his rock-throwing.

-No Others are likeable to me. I'm thrilled to death to see them getting f-ed with by Jack and Sawyer. Wasn't sad at all to see Colleen go. I can't imagine any circumstance or mitigation of their behavior that will make them sympathetic to me.

-Did anyone notice the cartoon Jack was watching at the beginning? Interesting parallel to our Losties' dillema can be found here.

-Interested to see whether the obvious value of Jack's expertise is indeed the reason they need him, or if that's a red herring too.

maven said...

Us westcoasters just finished! Wow, great episode IMHO. We got some valuable info, and some more insight into our Losites.

Sawyer's flashback in prison showed once a con always a con...but one with a heart of gold.

Jack was definitely taken for a reason...he's a spinal surgeon and they need his expertise (Ben has the tumor). On the hilltop, Ben quotes from "Of Mice and Men": "A guy gets too lonely, he gets sick..." Not sure yet what they need Kate and Sawyer for. But they weren't randomly picked! (Did have a spinal surgeon on Flight 815 just happen?)

Desmond's still wierd and clairvoyant. He knows a downpour and lightening is coming. Was the "experiment" (the golf club) put exactly there near Claire's place to draw the lightenting away since she wouldn't leave to have Desmond fix her roof (a ploy to try to get her to move away for awhile). Loved Charlie's throwaway line regarding Desmond's strangeness when he tells Clair: "We've got to get that gang another button to push."

So we learn Juliet's a fertility doctor. Where are the kids? Also, some more of the tension between her and Ben is displayed. Especially when Jack asks to talk to Benjamin (not Ben?). Juliet: We make decision together. I don't answer to him.

So there are a least 2 islands (part of a chain?). I don't think Otherville is on the "alcatraz island". The Others have the use of a sub. Pickett says: "The sub is back." That's how they got on the sailboat past Sayid and Jin.

The pacemaker ploy was a little overboard...but I guess it tamed Sawyer. It was interesting that just before the syringe was plunged into Sawyer's chest, Jason (the guy that put the wood in his mouth for the pain) says to the Syringe Guy: "It was to go through the sternum, like in the mov...(movie)." What movie? An orientation film? Or some horror film they've watched and got this idea from? Ben tells Sawyer that they had to con a con man. "You're pretty good, but we're better." Sawyer seems to have been broken.

The beatings Sawyer gets in the episode are pretty brutal...first from Ben and then from Pickett. I guess since Colleen was Picket's wife, he blames Sawyer as a respresentative of the Losties to take out his grief...but that was a pretty violent beating. Even though Kate admits to Sawyer that she said she loved him just to get Pickett to stop, we do see that she would stay together or die alone. She won't leave him behind. They're in this together.

Just some quick responses to tonight's episode. Probably not too many around now to get into major discussions tonight.

maven said...

Some further observations while fresh in my mind:

When Sawyer and Kate see stretcher go by with injured Coleen on it...Kate wonders what happened. Sawyer says "It's us against them", knowing that one of the Losties did it.

Well, we find out Sawyer is 35 and weights around 180. Important information!

Bunny rabbit was number "8". Sawyer's prison number was 840. Embezzler's prison number was 248. All part of our numbers.

Ben says "We're not killers." when Sawyer asks why they don't just kill him.

Sawyer has a tough time calming down while watching Kate change. Gives himself a cold shower!

The Others knew the EMP ruined their communications...their lines of communication are down. The EMP happened 2 days ago.

mountain girl said...

Maven, I think the line 'just like in the movie' is referring to Pulp Fiction - when John Travolta puts a shot of epinephrine into Uma Therman's heart when she is overdosing on coke. If this is the case, the reference was a shout out, but also further proof that the others do have contact with the outside world.

mountain girl said...

Anyone still out there? I just got done watching the episode on the west coast. An AMAZING episode, except I was a bit disappointed in the 'big reveal' I was expecting from Ben to Sawyer. I guess that's what I get for reading spoilers.

I thought it was interesting how when Jack was doing the surgery, everyone looked on with complete respect. They know he's good. That leads me to think they really do want him to remove someone's tumor (Ben's?).

WIthout saying anything spoiler-ish, I thought the preview for next week looked amazingly intriguing. Does anyone know if there are screen shots of that very last scene? I hope it's not something that happens in the very lats minutes of next week's episode with no more information revealed than in the preview tonight. I have a feeling it will be like that.

mountain girl said...

And why does Ben (i'm assuming) have a tumor when everyone else on the island gets healed? Do the healing powers somehow not apply to the others, or are the xrays, as someone already suggested, part of another con?

Is anyone else out there?

mountain girl said...

And am I missing something? Is it really such a big deal that there is more than one island.

Ok, it's lonely here. I'm going to bed.

Dark Angel said...

Well Guys, sounds like a cool episode, glad my prediction from the podcast about Jack and Colleen played out :)

Capcom with regards to swimming polar bears TheBookpolice is completely correct about polar bears swimming ability they are incredibly strong swimmers, as they hunt on ice flows they often have to swim across open water, in fact here are a few Polar Bear swimming facts for you:)



1. Polar bears are strong swimmers; they swim across bays or wide leads without hesitation. They can swim for several hours at a time over long distances. They've been tracked swimming continuously for 100 km (62 mi.) (Stirling, 1988).

2. A polar bear's front paws propel them through the water dog-paddle style. The hind feet and legs are held flat and are used as rudders.

3. A thick layer of blubber (fat), up to 11 cm (4.3 in.) thick, keeps the polar bear warm while swimming in cold water (Stirling, 1988).

4. Polar bears can obtain a swimming speed of 10 kph (6.2 mph) (Stirling, 1988).

5. The hair of a polar bear easily shakes free of water and any ice that may form after swimming.

6. A polar bear's nostrils close when under water.



It is therefore not only possible that the bear could have swam across the main island but highly likely as they would move to an area with a good source of prey as they would in the wild.

Passafist said...

What an Interesting Episode. I have arbunch to talk about on this weeks podcast and here's your chance to get in on the action. Don't forget to send your MP3 comments and e-mails to passafistwastaken@gmail.com.

Or call (206) 600-0952 (it's a toll call to Washington State), the lost community podcast voicemail box and leave your comments there.

Also I have another homework assignment we're going to talk about on the show next week and I was hopinf for some suggestions on topic for the Podcast during the 12 week break! Any ideas..???

WORD UP!! Thanks for your help!!

Oh and I forgot to mention, I'll be out of town until sunday afternoon which means you get til Sunday at 1 (est) to get comments in this week. So ROCK ON and God Bless!!!

Polleekin said...

I think the reason Ben hasnt been healed by the island is becuase it only heals some people. When Rose tried to get healed in season 2, she didn't get healed. The guy (sorry, forgot his name) said the healing powers of that particular place could heal some people, but not others. She might get healed if she went to a different healing place. I think it works the same way on the island too.

Also...about the Alctraz reference. On the real Alcatraz island, the prisoners could see mainland from there. It was psychologically very hard on them, to see the mainland and know they would probably never actually go there again. I think thats partly why they showed Sawyer his home island. To show him that it was so close, but even if he escaped he could never make it back there.

engineer27 said...

Good Morning Losties.

I have to say I called it correctly that they were not on the Island anymore. Unfortunately, I didn't put it in writing so you'll have to take my word for it.

Also, who remembers the submarine in this image from the summer Experience?

ib4uc said...

Wow, awesome episode last night giving way to more questions...
1. Sawyer really has a daughter with Cassidy or is she just conning him?
2. There are 2 islands?
3. Juliet is a fertility doctor but where are all the children?

One of the best lines... Sawyer to Pickett "What do I have to do, talk about your mother?"

Dennis said...

GOOD MORNING EVERYONE!

The American Express Exclusives site has been updated. You can log-in using: Rachel Blake / 888-258-3741

I have uploaded the photos here: http://flickr.com/photos/lostchibbie/sets/72157594345675696/

The video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9iSIkbPH2E


Here are the questions:

Number Alert: You can never get away from the numbers. Is there any significance to how things are grouped or labeled in this world?
I Don't Answer to Ben: Why is Jack challenging Juliet’s authority? Is he manipulating the tension between Juliet and Ben?
The Sub is Back: Did Ben say"sub"? The Others have a submarine? Is this what Colleen meant about"the Galaga"?
Every Man for Himself: Sawyer reveals to Kate the plan he's formulating for an escape that doesn't include Jack. His ultimate philosophy means he's on his own.
Number Alert: Sawyer's surrounded by the numbers. Can you spot them? Are there other bunnies?
Watch Your Stash: Sawyer professes hatred for the prison warden and offers fellow inmate Munson some advice about the millions he stole.
Like in the Movie: The Others strap Sawyer down and instruct each other to inject him through the sternum like in the movie. What movie are they referring to?
Keep Your Heart Rate Down: Ben tells Sawyer that they've implanted a pacemaker in him like the one in the rabbit, which he kills for effect. Are the Others really the good guys?
Meet Your Daughter: During a visitation, Sawyer angrily denies to Cassidy that Clementine is his child. Is Sawyer more affected than he’s willing to show? Is this a con?
These Aren't of Colleen: While in surgery on Colleen, Jack notices x-rays of a male patient with a very large tumor on his vertebrae. Who is Jack really meant to save?
Yes, I Love Him: An enraged Pickett attacks Sawyer after Colleen dies. Is Kate telling the truth about loving Sawyer? Or just lying to stop the beating?
Another Book in Sawyer's Library: A guy goes nuts if he ain't got nobody. Sawyer quotes from Steinbeck's novel to the Others and gets it quoted right back at him.
Live Together, Die Alone: Despite her best efforts to convince him, Sawyer refuses to join Kate in escaping. She squeezes back into her cage.
Can I Borrow That Golf Club?: After failing to get Claire to move from her tent, Desmond rigs a lightning rod nearby. How did he know lightning would strike Claire’s tent?
It's Alive, It's Alive!: There was never a pacemaker -- the only thing they put inside Sawyer was doubt. Just more mind games from the Others?
Nowhere to Run: Ben reveals to Sawyer they’re being held on a small island off the main island. There’s nowhere to run even if they do escape. Now what?

sean said...

im only here for a few seconds. after this post, i have to go, but i just wanted to say
i believed clemintine was sawyer's daughter, until the end when sawyer gave all the money to her.
then i knew, this has to be a con.

ill be back later.

sean said...

hang on. before i go, i just want to see if i can answer some of those.

Why is Jack challenging Juliet’s authority? Is he manipulating the tension between Juliet and Ben?
it reminded me of when benry was being held prisoner in the hatch. he challenged lockes authority.

The Others strap Sawyer down and instruct each other to inject him through the sternum like in the movie. What movie are they referring to?
pulp fiction. when i was watching the scene last night during lost, i thought to myself, this is just like the scene in pulp fiction!

Ben tells Sawyer that they've implanted a pacemaker in him like the one in the rabbit, which he kills for effect. Are the Others really the good guys?
i thiught that turned out to be fake.

After failing to get Claire to move from her tent, Desmond rigs a lightning rod nearby. How did he know lightning would strike Claire’s tent?
psychic

Ben reveals to Sawyer they’re being held on a small island off the main island. There’s nowhere to run even if they do escape. Now what?
swim? i dont know.

nw i really have to go. im really late.
see you later.

engineer27 said...

sean said...

it reminded me of when benry was being held prisoner in the hatch. he challenged lockes authority.

Yes, you beat me to it. The situation is the same. Even some of the dialog is exactly the same ... "We make decisions together ..."

Also, in that scene Jack mentions holding a broken dish at Juliet's neck. Did I miss something or was that in another deleted scene?

ib4uc said...

engineer27: the scene, as I remember it, was when Jack holds the broken plate to Juliet's neck was when he tried to escape and Ben came in the door. He said something to effect that he didn't care if Jack slit her throat or not. Then Jack opened the door behind him after Juliet and Ben warned him not to and flooded the room. That's when Juliet knocked him out.

I think this is pretty much how it happened, but if my memory is incorrect, someone please correct me.

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

Has Anybody talked about Radzinky in next weeks episode?

leelee2233 said...

hi all. is there anywhere to see the preview for next week; I watched the episode online this morning and no previews there. thanks!

engineer27 said...

scottE:

Wasn't Radzinsky the one who blew his brains out?

Dark Angel said...

I always thought a Clemantine was a small sort of orange! Mind you didn't Droopy used to sing "Oh my Darling Clemantine". Actually in the song Clementine drowned!

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

Polleekin - I think that the Others are sterile. and if they are then the healing doesn't work on them, which means that "the Incident" or any other Dharma experiment went wrong on them.

So they could have banded together and overthrew Dharma. Or maybe them over throwing Dharma was "The Incident"

ib4uc said...

leelee2233: check Lost Links. They usually have both the US and Canadian previews.

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

engineer27 - Yes, and I thought that Kelvin said he had one eye, but I can't find anything on that.

Locke found the glass eye in the bible with the rest of the Dharma video. Maybe Radzkey edited the video.

He's the one that painted the blast door.

engineer27 said...

ib4uc:

Thanks, I think that was it. I remember that scene, I just didn't remember the broken dish part of it.

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

The broken dish is what he grabbed when he attacked her.

Dennis said...

maven said... Sawyer's flashback in prison showed once a con always a con...but one with a heart of gold.

At first I thought the flashback was about Sawyer being a con man, but in the end, it's really about him looking out for number one.

maven said... (Did have a spinal surgeon on Flight 815 just happen?)

Yes. I think that the first episode showed they didn't cause the plane to crash.

maven said... (Ben has the tumor)

I can't remember the time line correctly, but could those be Sawyer's x-rays?

maven said... The pacemaker ploy was a little overboard...

I agree. I was thinking, Come On! This is ridiculous....even for Lost.

maven said...Ben says "We're not killers." when Sawyer asks why they don't just kill him.

Yeah, except for Scott and Nathan :)

mountain girl said... Does anyone know if there are screen shots of that very last scene?

I CAN"T BELIEVE I FORGOT TO WATCH THE PREVIEWS!! ARRRRRGGGGG!

Screen shots for the "previews" can be found at Lost-media.com

Here is the one you probably mean: http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x05-cost/3x06-preview22.jpg


mountain girl said... And am I missing something? Is it really such a big deal that there is more than one island.

Yes, it's a big deal. This means there is not an easy way to escape. It also means that Locke is NOT going to be able to rescue them.

Other thoughts:

I though it was interesting that they played the sirens when they brought Jack outside so he couldn't hear Kate & Sawyer.

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

dennis quoted- "I though it was interesting that they played the sirens when they brought Jack outside so he couldn't hear Kate & Sawyer."

Yes I found it interesting as well. However, it makes sense. Don't let them hear Kate and Sawyer so he can't barter Colleen's life for Kate and Sawyer.

however, that was a lot to think through for the Others in the short time they had

2costa said...

nobody beleived my theories the last few weeks but i was right on nearly all of them. 1. they brought jack to their base for his spinal surgery skills. 2. There is some kind of fertitlity angle. 3. Ben admires Sawyers moxy and needs him for something else.

2costa said...

i bet the eyepatch guy is an original dharma guy. Since jack has to operate on ben. I might add that i was also right that the others live on a seperate smaller island. This revalation also makes the ferry meaningless because it just ferries you back and forth between two islands in the middle of nowhere. I would also like to reiterate my theory that nonne can leave the island all ben has proved is that he can recieve info from the outside world, not that he can leave

Dark Angel said...

The US Promo for next week is avaiable at Lost Spoilers I understand that there is no Canadian Promo this week.

******Possible spoiler theory from Promo********










2Costa I agree I have suspicions that the guy with the eyepatch might be Radynsky (or however you spell it), although that must mean that Kelvin lied to Desmond as it is pretty hard to fake blowing your brains out!








**************END******************

CattyGirl said...

I want to start here today by saying that I loved this episode. Ok... now I'm going to read the comments before continuing. :))

Tall Guy said...

Clementine was the name of the Kate Winslet character in the excellent Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. A movie about memory manipulation.

cyberyang said...

Overall, a VERY good episode.
I always thought Sawyer was a very interesting character.

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

DESMOND IS THE MAN, I'll be honest to you all. Desmond is the only person on that Island that doesn't irritate me (well maybe Sun.) I really hope they don't turn him into a little whiney bizzle like they did with everyone else.

Dark Angel said...

Now that might be relevent - mind manipulation sounds like conning someone to me!

TheBookPolice said...

scott.e.tuhauddy - The Tailies found the glass eye in the Arrow station, not Locke. But good catch! I hadn't made that connection yet.

And it's "Radzinsky," for those unsure of the spelling.

JGZ350 said...

Good Morning all-

Great episode, but as always more questions than answers.

The mystery man with the eye patch in the last scene of the previews for next weeks episode is none other than the infamous Alvar Hanso!

The guy being Radzinsky is just to easy to figure out.

Dennis said...

**** Possible Preview spoiler *****

2costa said... i bet the eyepatch guy is an original dharma guy.

It must be Radzinsky. There was a glass eye found in the Arrow station, along with the Bible.

[They find a bible and some blankets.]
BERNARD: What else in here?
LIBBY [finding the thing that fell]: It's a glass eye.


The missing orientation film clip was also found in the bible by Eko:

EKO: Hello. I have something I think you should see.
[Eko unwraps the book and pushes it toward Locke]
EKO: I believe what's inside there will be of great value to you.
[Locke opens the book. A square has been cut out, and inside is a piece of film.]


Radzinsky was the one who edited the film.

[The film reel ends there, and Desmond takes it off the projector.]
INMAN [donning his environmental suit]: How many times are you going to watch that thing?
DESMOND: Why are there missing parts?
INMAN: Radzinsky made some edits.


The question is how would they see Radzinsky on the carmeras if he is dead? It looks like they hacked the system and are playing back the video tape.

*******

Rachel B said...

How come no one else sees that "the sub" could refer to Desmond (he was the substitute filling in to push the button)? It is mentioned just after the Others expedition party returns from the encounter w/ Desmond's boat (even though he is not on it)...

INTERESTING - here's a Lost connection in the scifi (old Star Trek) area, if you can remember back that far!

1. The comments by Ben about being lonely on the island,

2. the "powers" he has shown on the island, among them various illusions

3. the circular path that boats seem to take when they try to escape,

4. the idea that Ben brought Jack to his world for a purpose (surgery?)

5. the idea that Ben may have been a child on the island with Dharma,

6. Ben may have forced the plane to crash on the island in the 1st place.

7. the games that Ben is playing with the Lost survivors (mental + physical)

8. that there is likely some machine OR higher power (like "Him") that is more powerful than Ben...he is under "his" thumb and seems as stuck on the island as the Losties.

REMIND you Star Trek fans of anything?

The character is named "Trelane" and the episode is "Squire of Gothos" -- there are very interesting parallels, making me think the writers are drawing a bit on this old Star Trek for some ideas.

See http://www.ericweisstein.com/fun/startrek/TheSquireOfGothos.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Squire_of_Gothos

TheBookPolice said...

Dennis - Excellent! No pun intended, but you have indeed pieced it all together. Your brain is obviously working faster than at least mine this morning.

maven said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Dark Angel said...

Aagh to much info....

I'm trying to get through everything on my desk at work and this is too tempting.

************Possible spoiler*********








I like the idea that the image of the one eyes guy is an archived image from the tapes and is Radzinsky. I don't think it is Alvar Hanso as TPTB have said that no characters from TLE will appear in Lost.



********************************




Well this is certianly giving me plenty of stuff for the audio for the Podcast :)

maven said...

I think I'm in the camp that eyepatch guy is Radzinsky. The glass eye being left in the Arrow station was definitely a clue (Good catch, Scott.e. Thanks Dennis for posting that dialogue.) I always thought there was no real proof that Radzinsky was dead. Kelvin lied to Desmond many times, didn't he?

If you look closely at the screen cap there seems to be a reel to reel tape like those used in original computor rooms from the 70's. It's behind glass because there's reflections. So there is a separate room. The picture seems very dated, or it just can be the use of the old DI monitor. But eyepatch guy knows he's being watched.

CattyGirl said...

There should be a thread in the message board for people to pat themselves on the back for predicting parts of the show. I feel like I should predict that another one of our Losties will die by the end of the season. I'll be sure to post that I was right when it happens, but I won't say anything if I am wrong so no worries.

minnesotawriter said...

Best episode of the season--thus far. And do not disagree.

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

Rachel you clever cleve woman... It could mean Desmond.

Dark Angel said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Dennis said...

X-Ray Theory

Who could the X-ray be of?

• Ben - Why would Ben's x-rays be on display? It this to get Jack to help him? Is this why Ben doesn't want to leave the island?
• Jack - X-rays could have been taken when he was unconscious. He can't operate on himself. Could he teach Juliet spinal surgery?
• John - X-rays could have come from their files on everyone. This would explain his losing the ability to walk. Now that he's restored his faith on the island, and the island has restored his ability to walk, would he let Jack operate on him?

Thrasher76 said...

I just read most of the comments and I had an idea from something Maven said; "So, Juliet is a fertility doctor, so where are all the children? Somewhere in my knowledge of science fiction I remember it being said that "clones" could not bare children by normal conventional means. Not that they could not "bump uglies" but that thier bodies rejected the fertilization of an egg. Could this be why Juliet is on the island????

Dennis said...

CattyGirl said... There should be a thread in the message board for people to pat themselves on the back for predicting parts of the show. I feel like I should predict that another one of our Losties will die by the end of the season. I'll be sure to post that I was right when it happens, but I won't say anything if I am wrong so no worries.

LOL :)

Dark Angel said...

Dennis Pretty sure the X-rays are Ben's - they were up beacuse Juliet was looking at them but realised she did not have the experience to operate.

Thrasher As far as I am aware there is no reason for clones to be sterile (mind you I studied genetics before clonong was actually achieved) But saying that I thought TPTB had dismissed the whole clone thing alosng with nanobots, snowglobes and purgatory.

I think the children are all in Othersville with Auntie Bea, apart from Alex and Karl now they're all grown up.

CattyGirl said...

thrasher - ewwww. I hope this doesn't end up being the case.

oh2dc said...

thrasher, i like that idea; i've always thought since the second episode when ben said, "i've lived on this island all my life," that he was being honest, but dilleberately saying he hadn't been "born" on the island. ergo, Ben (and perhaps all the others) are results of genetic engineering. perhaps something akin to the assembly line baby creation in the book Brave New World.

Dark Angel said...

In fact thinking about it Clones definately would be fertile, of course as this is fiction something in the process could have made them infertile.

If they are infertile could it be that the magnetic anomolie is responsible for their infertitlty


or is it a side effect of the life extension project. If you are going to make someone imoortal then you don't want them breeding or pretty quickly we run out of space!

Dark Angel said...

and it could be my spelling has gone totally to pot....

typing too fast

sorry guys

CattyGirl said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Thrasher76 said...

Maybe I have been watching too many of my Highlander TV series DVD's lately.


"In the End, there can be only one!" May it be Duncan MaCleod!!

Tommy said...

Anyone notice the further evidence of Juliet conning Jack? She says "I'm a fertility doctor, I'm not used to death." I think Sawyer would definitely disagree with her on this one.

CattyGirl said...

I honestly do not have the skills to piece together who the one-eyed man is, but after reading here I was surprised to see Radzinsky (thank you bookpolice for the spelling which is funny in itself with bookpolice as a username) brought up as a suspect. Sure enough, I watched the preview again. They are watching the film they found in the Pearl Station of the Swan Station so now I see finally how people have figured this out. Good job community. I am enjoying this episode and its discussion so much more than the last 3.

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

Desmond MaCleod

That has a better ring to it

Thrasher76 said...

ACK!!! I have to go and get ready for work!! Talk with you all agian next Lost day! I am still trying to keep up with all your brilliance!

Until then,

Peace & Namaste!

wv: bjolyisd

Be JOLY In Super Dome?

maven said...

Bye, Thrasher...have a good week!

I don't think they're clones. TPTB dismissed that idea a while ago.

What puzzles me is that Juliet says she's a fertility doctor. Now she seems to be in her mid 30's. But where did she get her medical training? On the island, from her Dharma parents? Or did she come to the island after her schooling? Or is she just self-taught? She's wearing Dharma doctor clothes. She seemed to know something during the Coleen "surgery", but she said she's not a surgeon. Current fertility doctors do surgery all the time! It's something she would be normally trained to do for any medical speciality (I watch enough TV doctor shows!).

Dark Angel said...

Call me old SchoolThrasher but I always thought "The One" Was Conner McCloud.

"Here we are, born to be kings, were the princes of the universe"

Oh bugger, now you've got me started

engineer27 said...

Yes, Benjamin needs Sawyer to help him con Jack into performing the required surgery.

I notice he suddenly started calling him "Sawyer" instead of "James" right when he started asking for help.

maven said...

Another thing that was interesting to me: They walked Jack (with the burlap bag over his head) right past the zoo cages where Sawyer and Kate were, blasting the sirens so he couldn't hear them if they yelled at him. Was that the only path to the "hospital" area? The Others seem to always come and go out of nowhere...it seems funny that that was the only way to take Jack. (Dramatic effect anyone?)

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

yeah, they are all in their 30's and 40's.

According to the Hanso Foundation, the project was scrapped in the early 80's after an incident. That would have been around 21 years before "Lost Time." That would make them in their lower teens to tens when the incident happened.

Correct me if i'm wrong anybody.

engineer27 said...

maven ... They want Kate and Sawyer to see Jack ... less likely that they will try to escape without him, since they know he's there.
Also, "Cole" is dying, that way might have just been the fastest way to get Jack to the operating theatre.

Dark Angel said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
engineer27 said...

I need to update what I said earlier. Benry seemed genuinely upset when Juliet brought Jack over. Either that was an act for Jack's benefit, or Juliet is pursuing her own agenda. Perhaps she wants Jack to take care of Benry because of their imputed past history. That means that Benry needs Sawyer for another purpose.

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

ok, since we are on the others and "kids" a little bit

what's up with Karl in the first episode?

He looks like he's in his early twenties, he's dating Alex. Why was he trying to escape? where did he come from? where did they take him? and whatever happend to Alex?

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

and another thing, don't you think that Danielle would have known about the other island if she's been there for over for, what was it, 15 - 20 years?

maven said...

The island that Ben and Sawyer are standing on in the last scene doesn't seem very tropical to me. Looks like a lot of dry brush and rocks. If Hydra Station is on this island, I didn't see any lush vegetation during the end of the episode.

bpfinn said...

Somebody (sorry, I can't remember who) drew some parallels between Lost and Watchmen. In Watchmen, one of the characters, Dr. Manhattan, is transformed by an atomic accident into an extremely powerful being. One of his new abilities is to experience time in a non-linear way. He doesn't just see the future, he's already experienced it. It hit me last night that maybe Desmond was transformed in a similar fashion by the magnetic anomaly and the fail safe. He knows about Locke's speech, and the lightning strike because it's already happened to him. Well, that's my 2 cents for today. :)

mountain girl said...

Scott- the new island is on Danielle's map. It's marked Alex.

Christine#2 said...

Hi guys, wow what an episode. It is getting interesting. I hope we get some more answers next week. So there is another island? hmm maybe. But they have a sub!!! That explains how they got to Desmonds boat without being noticed! So who here is wondering who the guy with one eye is? I know I am. Any ideas?

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

Mountain girl, i am looking at her map right now and I don't see it. maybe i'm just missing something. are you sure it was Rousseaus' map?


http://lostpedia.com/images/3/39/Rousseaus-map-translated.jpg

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

Christine#2 - if you read up around the 80th message or so (I think) we think it's Radzinsky... there should be info on who he is up in the posts... i didn't read through them all either, but ask away if you have questions

maven said...

Yes, Mountain girl, I don't see "Alex" island either. There are a few off-shore small islands. Maybe one of those is Hydra Station?

2costa said...

its bens x-ray they showed a clip of jack saying he had to operate on bens back or whatever. The intruging thing is why would ben have a tumor on healing island, and i think the answer is tied to the faith healer in australia. He said differnt spots have difernt frequencies. SO i guess it is the wrong frequency to prevent benrys tumor...

2costa said...

i bet kelvin wasnt trying to escape he was gonna go to the others island

isibell said...

Oh yah. My man Sawyer coming through with the humanity again! And so many answers tonight! So now I know that even if Benry says he's lived his entire life on the island, not all of them have. (The two guys talking about where to stab Sawyer with the adrenaline needle made reference to Pulp Fiction. Yay Quinten) I know what happened to Kate that bruised up her wrists so bad after breakfast (I always thought what ever they did to her had to have something to do with reproduction, and now Juliet is a reproductive specialist...he he he.) The purple light in the sky was an EMP burst. (Mr. Friendly all but said so as Sawyer was coming to in the tank.) But biggest and badest of all...no...I don't particularly care if there is a second island...they have as sub! I knew they could get off the island. I knew it! (Of corse that’s assuming no one is going to come back with a transcript from last night and tell me that while Benry clearly said sub, in fact he was supposed to say boat.)

Ok. I'll stop for now. I won't have time to read what everyone is saying till lunch. Till then...have fun. ;)

Christine#2 said...

scott, yes I did browse thru the other comments. Yes it might be Radzinski. Fine. But where is he is the question. Who here thinks that ben is locke's brother?
P.s. Hi Maven!!!

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

Ben said he was there his whole life. I don't think he's locke's brother.

Where is Radzinsky? I don't know. there are still a few stations they haven't found.

mountain girl said...

I can't look through the map now because I have my toddler in my lap playing elmo on the potty on the computer as I type, too. But I will look up the Alex island later. does anyone know what I'm talking about?

2costa said...

my wife made a good point maybe julliette being a fertility docter is tired to sun and jin and why they knew sun's whole name and that goes with my theory that sun's dad sent them to the island on purpose. Paik industries is prolly like widmore. Marvin candle may even be sun's uncle

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

another question I have is, how did Kelvin get there?

There are so many questions. How can they seriously wrap this all up?

They are going to want to keep this going for years and keep us interested. It is going to have be confusing until everyone loses interest, they cancel the show, and make a lost movie to wrap it up.

Can we say "Twin Peaks"

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

mountain girl, I posted a link of the map above... check it out later.

mountain girl said...

I thought Marvin Candle looked more japanese than korean.

Christine#2 said...

Maven,
I know you guys are looking at Rousseau's map, and seeing those "small islands" in front of it, but have you looked closer to realize that what she is describing could be underground? She describes coral reefs, obviously not above ground since we didn't see it when Sawyer looked over at the island. Also, a wreck of some kind, possibly her boat., and quick moving sand, bay of crabs, all things you would know if you saw them from under water. Maybe rousseau has been inside the submarine. She also says something about reflections of the see. Maybe the island is hidden by a sort of water mirage, or also that the island is a reflection of some other island? Any thoughts?

2costa said...

making a pulp fiction refernce means nothing in respect to ability to leave the island benry aleady proved he has access to outside world material(redsox world series footage)so whos to say they didnt download pulp fiction...

mountain girl said...

Thanks Scott

Christine#2 said...

Correction to above statement, I mean that those things were underwater, not underground, sorry.

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

mountain girl - anytime.

2costa said...

going on an acters looks is no way to judge his heritage. Kim jong ill routinely kidnaps people from japan and south korea.

2costa said...

japan and korea go way back

2costa said...

mr miyagi was hawaiian

isibell said...

2costa - That reference and the sub. They can leave. But really that reference tells me more that not all of them were born there.

DiggityDirge said...

Howdy all,

Still trying to catch up on comments. Great epi and good comments. Nice catch about the Russeau map. Here's my list of interesting items.

1. "Been two days since the sky has been purple, we've been blind, our comms are down, and I can't get them back up." Tom said this to Ben as Sawyer is waking up from his butt woopin. Seems to indicate standard methods of communication are down (they still have radios since we saw Pickett with one and someone radioed in that Sayid found the fake village)and they either lost view to their camera's, or more specifically lost their ability to see the Swan. Either way, a juicy nugget.

2. All hail Pulp Fiction. A great reference to the Tarantino classic. "Just like in the movie." I thought it was hilarious that everyone I was wathcing the epi with, cringed when he stuck Sawyer with the needle, even though it was less graphic.

3. Intercom: I am dying to know what was said on the intercom. So far, I can make out "It was a mistake bringing you two here" and "Jack, do you know what your doing"

4. Good People?? The others make so much reference to them being good people and not killers. The conversation between Ben and Tom was chilling. "You know Danny wants to kill him" Ben didn't seem to disagree or state that is not their belief. He simply replies "Danny will have to wait"

5. Another good con by Sawyer to get out of jail, and a bad con by the others. I can't beleive Sawyer fell for it.

6. How did the animals get to the main island if they were all being held on Alcatraz. Boars, polar bears, etc.

7. Confirmation of a submarine

8. Juliette a fertility doctor. Intersting?

9. Kates omage to Jack. "Live together, die alone." Kate loves Jack not Sawyer.

Looking forward to discussions.

mountain girl said...

2costa, you're right. I think tha namaste initially had me thinking Japanese too, but now we know that's just Hanso's catch phrase.

leelee2233 said...

ok, the line that really struck me in this episode is when Ben says to Sawyer "The only way to earn the respect of a con man is to con him" and then Ben calls him Sawyer.

Are these two going to be Allies in this whole song and dance? Just a thought...

DiggityDirge said...

Tommy said...
Anyone notice the further evidence of Juliet conning Jack? She says "I'm a fertility doctor, I'm not used to death." I think Sawyer would definitely disagree with her on this one.

Agreed. Sawyer sized her up as someone who has no problem with death or killing someone. Sawyer's first instinct is normally correct.

mountain girl said...

The change in Desmond is even more striking this episode. What a far cry from the anxious, stir crazy guy in the hatch and the drunk guy on the boat!

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

I still like the theory that "Sub" meant Desmond. He was subbing in hitting the button, and they said that after they came back from looking at Desmond's boat.

DiggityDirge said...

leelee2233 said...
ok, the line that really struck me in this episode is when Ben says to Sawyer "The only way to earn the respect of a con man is to con him" and then Ben calls him Sawyer.

Are these two going to be Allies in this whole song and dance? Just a thought...

Everyone has had a great take on the con angle. I agree Ben will want Sawyer to con Jack into something. I ahve said since before season 3 that the others will use Kate and Sawyer against Jack for a purpose.

We have already seen Sawyer con the girl he loved (Cassy), an prisoner who seemed overwhelmed by the experience, his conman partner, and the losties. Is it possible the others will offer Sawyer a "every man for himself" deal.

I thought that was the point of the Sawyer/Kate escape scene. Sawyer would have left Kate behind if the situation is reversed. We also see his willingness to leave Jack behind early on in the epi. Sawyer has always had to take care of himself. He was the same way with Michael when the tailess were leading them back to the lagees. Very willing to leave him behind.

I anticipate the others needing Sawyer help, and using the every man for himself mentality to their advantage. Or will it backfire?

ib4uc said...

I think the Others truly underestimate Sawyer -- they think they are conning him but it's the other way around. Hopefully, it will backfire against them.

And, deep down inside, I think Sawyer cares what happens to Kate and Jack. Like when they were walking Jack past the cages, if Sawyer didn't care, he probably would have sat back and done nothing. Instead, he was yelling just as loud as Kate to get his attention. Unfortunately, it was all for nothing...

DiggityDirge said...

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...
I still like the theory that "Sub" meant Desmond. He was subbing in hitting the button, and they said that after they came back from looking at Desmond's boat.

Totally disagree. I don't see how people can logically come to that conclusion. To quote

Ben: "Juliett I need you.
Juliett: Can it wait.
Ben: The sub is back. We have a situation. So come with me now."

The next thing you see is Pickett being interupted by a radio and Juliett and Ben running out of the hatch to meet the boat crew. To quote:

Tom: "She's hurt bad Juliett."

I believe that line was there to answer the question about how they crept up on the sailboat and their mobility. It is logical they have a submarine. They could move without being seen.

The others knew nothing of Desmond's boat, which would mean we are uncertain how much the others know about Desmond. I just cannot see how they would be afraid of Desmond.

While I agree the others used Colleens situation to their advantage and con Jack, their intial intention was to save her life. Once it fell through, they used it to their advantage.

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

yeah, I can see it that way too. which makes more sense.

ib4uc said...

diggitydirge: I agree with you on this. Once you read back the dialogue, it makes total sense that they are referring to a submarine, not Desmond.

Tommy said...

Okay, so after last night's episode I've got an update to my "lost horizon" connection theory.

"Who am I here to save?"

In the Lost Horizon novel: the High Lama is dying (after living for 100's of years). With his means of contacting the outside world, he finds the writings of Hugh Conway, and studies this man from afar. The High Lama decides that this is the man with the right philosophy to carry on his vision in Shangri-La, and he has one of his subjects hijack the plane that Hugh Conway is flying in to bring him there. But when attempting to land plane in the village, the plane crashes and the pilot dies.

Lost tv show (my theory): the leader of the others is dying of a spinal tumor. With their means of contacting the outside world, they discover Jacks's work, and see that he's worked miracles (in the episode The Hunting Party we learn of Jack's legendary status). The others then use what means they have to divert the plane that Jack is on to bring him to the island. But the plane crashes and the pilot dies.

- The pilot said that they were a thousand miles off course. Could this have been intentional? The others may not have 'caused' the plane to crash, but they may have been trying to get the plane to land on the island, regardless.

- What are the odds that a world renowned spinal surgeon would crash land on an island where someone needs a spinal tumor removed?

- Also in the book, this isn't the first time they've brought people to the village by dubious means. In fact, one of the women, a major love-interest character, was brought there "by accident" as well, and she is one of the key characters that discovered Hugh's work to begin with, and convinces him to stay once he's there. Could Juliet be one of the many that the others have brought there for their purposes (fertility)? On the island, there are multiple crashes - Henry Gale's balloon, Rousseau's boat, Desmond, etc. The others could have brought Juliet there in the same way. Did she do the research on Jack to begin with? And is her job now to convince Jack to stay?

for more on the whole "lost horizon' theory, check out http://lostinshangrila.blogspot.com/

DiggityDirge said...

I just checked for the whispers dialogue on the lage and it isn't up yet. I really want to know what was said on that intercom. Someone said they heard the name Karl, the kid that helped Sawyer escape.

Here's what I can make out:

_____(Name, sounded like Jack), do you know what your doing?........It was a mistake brining you two here.

I would also love to know why the others are blinded since the hatch imploded. Camera's, extrasensory perception (I'm sure I murdered the spelling on that), etc.

Also, why would Karl try to escape from an island (Alcatraz) that no one can escape from according to Ben.

capcom said...

Good day all, excellent theories and comentaries!

About the maps, way up at the top-ish, right after the show last night I posted what the Blackrock website has made up for possible maps of the island, including the stations in overlay (two differing ones), and all the tiny islets near the main island. One in the south is named Alex....because Rousseau knew she was there?

Good call someone made about seeing the mainland from Alcatraz and Hydra island, purposely causing despair. I haven't watched the ep a second time yet, but it looked swimmable to me......maybe.

Yay to those who made the connection betweenn the eyepatch and the yucky eyeball the Tailies found.

"The movie" could possibly just be any of the probably hundreds of training films that the D.I. seems to enjoy making. Training films are actually much more efficient than personal instructor training for basic overall information, especially if you're isolated and short on instructors.

I thought that when Ben said something about them being better at conning, Sawyer gave him a look as if to say, "You haven't beaten me out yet, there are still plenty of tricks up my sleave!"

I don't know what to think if Clementine is really Sawyer's, or if he had just been conned in return considering it involved an exchange of money. Could they all have been conning him? (the warden, the inmate and his ex?)

DarkAngel, it was Huckleberry Hound who sang "Oh My Darling...", but how U.S Baby-Boomer-ish of you to be so close! Did they show old U.S. cartoons in the Uk? :-)

It was great seeing Jack back in action as a doctor again, it was nice to see him with some self-assurance and take-charge confidence again.

And yay for the poster reference to another great Queen movie soundtrack, that first Highlander was awesome.

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

capcom, what's the link

Anthony said...

I didnt get to blog last week so here it is. Is There any possibility that Benry is Lusos child Alex? He told Jack he had lived all his life on the island meaning he was born their. Also he looks pretty old so if that is the case then all the other younger looking people are new addys or were they born their too?

As for this episode I thought the others only had one boat. In the first episode of this season they saw the plane break and benry sent two people to the island. If they are living on a seperate island how did they both get there, and where they are staying now looks different from where they started. Episode 1 shows their community as a flat treeless area but now the cages and such are in a thick forest area.

Dennis said...

capcom said... Good call someone made about seeing the mainland from Alcatraz and Hydra island, purposely causing despair. I haven't watched the ep a second time yet, but it looked swimmable to me......maybe.

The distance might be swimmable, but don't forget about the Dharma Sharks! Sawyer almost got eaten once, I don't think he would try that again.

Here is a picture of the mainland from the island: http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x04-himself/3/3x05-man-cap867.jpg

Here is a picture of the distance between Alcataz and the mainland (1.4 miles): http://www.mana-allison.com/gallery/images/sf-alcatraz.jpg

ib4uc said...

You know, seeing the previews for next week and seeing the patch-over-the-eye guy, makes me think of a TLE player gone missing... dazzedelf, where are you?

cyberyang said...

Anthony said...
Is There any possibility that Benry is Lusos child Alex?

I assume you're referring to Rousseau. We already know Alex and it's definitely not Ben. I could be wrong, but Ben and Rousseau look very similar in age.
I'm sorry, but there isn't a possibility.

maven said...

Capcom said: "I don't know what to think if Clementine is really Sawyer's, or if he had just been conned in return considering it involved an exchange of money. Could they all have been conning him? (the warden, the inmate and his ex?)"

I really think the kid is legitimally his. The con to get the money for the Warden/Feds was just that...a con for Sawyer to get a deal to get out of prison. Sawyer being pure Sawyer...looking out for himself. Until he showed a touch of heart by giving the money to Clementine...is he on his way to Albuquerque now? Sawyer also showed some compassion by not telling Kate that a "pacemaker" was implanted in him. Remember, he was told if he told her what they did to him, they would do it to Kate also. He also tries to get her to run and leave him behind (maybe he just thought his pulse would go over the danger zone and he'd explode if attempted an escape, or maybe he realized that they were surveiling them in the cages anyway.

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

did everyone disappear?

It's slow at work today and now i'm bored...

Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...

Maven, I think it's a little bit of both, he new they were watching so she had to go, plus he wouldn't be able to leave with her

ib4uc said...

maven: I think Sawyer really does care about Kate and Jack, as I've said before. He's just puts on the tough-man front but really does have a heart.

Dark Angel said...

Hi Guys,

Just sticking my head in to catch up -

Digity Dirge said

How did the animals get to the main island if they were all being held on Alcatraz. Boars, polar bears, etc.

We discussed this earlier but basically polar bears are incredibly good swimmers (a 62 mile swim has been recorded) so the distance between the islands is no problem. As for the boars I have assumed that they were indigenous to the island.

Capcom said DarkAngel, it was Huckleberry Hound who sang "Oh My Darling...", but how U.S Baby-Boomer-ish of you to be so close! Did they show old U.S. cartoons in the Uk? :-)

Aargh - I new it was one of the two, but yes we got all the old US cartoons. I always remeber watching them on a Saturday afternoon between the sport and news. My dad would always walk in stop and watch the whole cartoon standing there pretending he was just walking through ;)

Cyberyang I wondered whether Ben was Alex's father

Dennis said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Dark Angel said...

OK

Sorry, didn't think what I wrote would be a problem hence my email address at the bottom for more details and the spoiler warning.

But I will delete it immediately - I was just replying to your email!

cyberyang said...

Dark Angel-
I assumed that Anthony was asking if Ben was actually Alex, the child of Rousseau, since Ben was born on the island.

Dark Angel said...

Cyberyang Oh OK - no Ben is certainly not Alex - Alex "Saviour of Claire and donor of dresses to Kate" is clearly Alex Rosseau

isibell said...

I have a question.

Does there being two islands really mean anything in the grand scheme of the story?

I have to confess that after everything I'd gleaned up to the point of Sawyer looking out past the cliff top, I was a little disappointed that a second island is what they had built themselves up to. Not that I was disappointed in the ep. By no means. I was pacing back and forth across my living room shouting at the TV during the commercial after Benry said there was a sub. I threw my arms up in total vindication when what sounded like Zek's voice said that after the purple light communications had been knocked out with little hope of fixing it. I had thought that the light was from an electromagnetic pulse for some time now, but had no proof to back up my theory. But two islands...It really doesn't do anything, change anything, make anything more or less important.

It means that Otherville must be on the big island while the Hydra station is on the smaller island, or the tunnel system is around and working. Otherwise Goodwin and Ethan would have had problems running to the crash sights. But other than that I don't see what the big deal is. We've established that the currents circle around the islands, otherwise Juliet would have been more worried about the sailboat getting away. So the water going through the channel between the two islands isn't going to sweep anyone out to sea should they try to swim it. (This is one of the problems faced by any trying to swim away from Alcatraz) And that's if the current is strong enough to sweep at all. I mean it's a cool idea, and it does pose an interesting problem for any of the Losties looking for J,K,&S. But it really poses no threat to our three captives.

isibell said...

That was long...sorry

I get going and I can't help myself.

kvonhard said...

I'd just like to say that all I've been thinking since last night is, "Come see the softer side of Sawyer" (sung to the Sears jingle).

He puts the money aside for his daughter. Now, my question is, does he con the prisoner before or after he finds out about the daughter? When did the con begin? The moment he first met the guy or later on?

Dark Angel said...

Hi Isibell it does mean that Locke & Co are not going to be able to get to Jack, Sawyer and Kate

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