Is it going to be as bad as it looks for Sawyer? The promos (HERE, HERE, HERE, and HERE) for this episode have been the most intense to date. Get ready to find out exactly what happens to Sawyer, who it is that Kate confesses she "loves", and maybe some more insight into those mysterious new characters. Get excited, the party is here!
As always, our friend Jeff "Doc" Jensen over at Entertainment Weekly has some interesting things to say about our favorite show.
Wednesday, October 25, 2006
EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF - SEASON 3, EPISODE 4
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Here is the updated reading list for the 
255 comments:
1 – 200 of 255 Newer› Newest»I know I've posted kinda early but I'm heading out for the day and won't be back at a computer until after the episode starts on the East coast.
Hope you don't mind! :)
Second! :)
Have fun Admin...we promise to be good till you get back.
Reposting this from the previous comments...
ABC has set the start date for the second half of season 3:
From Zap2it: "Lost" will return to the schedule on Wednesday, Feb. 7, almost exactly three months after its final fall episode airs Nov. 8. The scheduling strategy is an effort by ABC to avoid repeats of the heavily serialized show; it has three more episodes to go in its initial run this fall and will have 16 weeks of uninterrupted episodes when it returns.
Thanks for the post, Admin (you're probably gone already)!
Dennis: What are we going to do for 3 months! :( We all knew this was coming...but the reality is setting in!
David, Hurry back. I have a feeling this episode is going to generate a lot of discussion.
From the previous thread, "Dennis said... thinbluemime, What other LOST "show" boards do you go to and what are the spoiler rules there?
I dont want to detract from TLC. David and crew run a very clean and family friendly forum. Lord knows we need some decency on the internet.
But I like " alt.tv.lost " for the open, unmoderated, and uncensored exchange of ideas. At times the language and discourse can be rough. But as an adult, well past my blush prime, I have heard most every foul utterence. So the profanity, which is not really excessive by the regulars, I tolerate. But there are beautiful minds there also.
Spoilers are usually announced as a common courtesy, in the header field. Unfortunately the header field is a luxury unavailable to users of blogger.com, aka TLC. And yes, the debate over what is a spoiler goes on at alt.tv.lost as well.
I really like TLC, and lurk more then I post. But because of the "relaxed" rules in the other forum, it is difficult to adjust my thought process to censor those thoughts according to spoiler rules.
So while there may be no perfect solution (is there ever?), for me the happy medium is to bounce back and forth between forums. TLC has bright and beautiful minds also, and I hate to miss out :)
Creativity is a funny thing, sometimes it involves a thinking out loud process...sometimes those out loud thoughts are profane...... I guess I choose the creative and tolerate the profane....
I just "thought out loud" and I hope that made sense :)
HAPPY LOST DAY!!
Hey Y'all
Did anybody see the NOVA repeat last night? They talked about "Magnetic Anomalies" in the South Pacific! It has somthing to do with a coming "Polar Shift"
Dig Y'all Later
Yes, Toten, that Nova ep was interesting! I did not see the entire show, did it talk about the mag anomalies found on the moon as well?
Does anyone know when ABC is supposed to air those so-called extended eps? Is that supposed to happen during the holiday break, or the summer break? It certainly would ease our pain if they at least ran reruns during the break till Feb.
BTW, from last post: whatever we decide about spoilers is fine with me too. I will re-read the orignal TLC rules. And I apologize if I've ever stepped beyond the spoilers boundaries for anyone. XO
Happy viewing tonight all!
yo wat up all i havnt posted in a while looks like this ep. is gonna reveal some important things about ze island according to the promos. i think Kates gonna chose Jack cuz didnt she say it in da promos??? or waz i hearing things and that voice say "Do you love him!!!" sounded like desmond not Herry or any of the other others lol other others tehehe
capcom - There is a whole different show taking the place of Lost during the break. A 13 ep show that's kind of a cross between 24 and groundhog day.
could be cool
p.s. south park is on rite after lost!! :P
Isibell, no way! Rats, so I wonder when we get our extended eps, or was that just a rumor?! :-p
Pwyll must live in the Atlantic ocean. :-)
pwyll were do u live for me its still like 1 hour and 10 mins
o ok nvm man u lucky :*( dont ruin any thing for us!
Well, Pwyll deserves some kind of prize for being in the earliest time-zone!
Ular98, I watch Jerico too, so far so good. But not as good as Lost yet. And so far not too many characters are that compelling, beyond the members of the main family in the story.
Hooray for all us Canucks! The one time in life I get to watch a show without staying up til some ridiculous hour.
PS. Just wanted to say that I really enjoyed the podcast this week! Keep them coming.
PPS. It's on!
Pwyll, your posts are welcomed and great, and maybe you can teach us some French along the way! :-) Especially whenever Rousseau comes back into the picture, you can translate for us if needed again!
dam still 1 hour here for us Americans :( i wache lost 9:00 then south park 10:00
Happy Lost night!!! Enjoy the epi!!!
You lucky Eastcoasters, French and Canadians! 3 1/2 hours for us PDT-ers! :(
I'll be going off-line until the westcoast is done! Enjoy!
yea i wish i still got the sci-fi channel but they took it off here and i LOVE The Twilight Zone
ah maven dat sux!
I'll be back after lost you guys!
Wowsers!!!!!!! Well, all I'll say for now, till everyone gets to watch it, is that we got a whopping 40 minute show tonight (so says my VCR counter), including the "previously on Lost" bit.
I have to watch it again. Can't wait till everyone has seen it!
P.S., for our homework, could someone please view Rousseau's maps to see if they jive with what we see in this ep? I read some info on the Lostpedia site about a marker/label on one of her maps, but I'm not sure that it is correct. Mainly because other things that we learned about the island since first seeing the maps just not match with what is on the L-pedia reference. Anyway, enjoy West Coasters!
blogger has been crazy all day.
so there are two lost islands now?
that must be why no "others" came to the trap fire syid set up in episode 2.
that must also be how the others snuk onto the boat in the first place, without sayid or jin knowing.
i still liked the second episode this season better than this one.
and im talking to myself.
hopefully there's more activity tomorrow.
goodnight
Captain Obvious here to declare that, "That was an AWESOME episode!" Kate & Sawyer aren't as self-centered as we think they are. Desmond is still predicting the future. Paulo is still awkward and random. Is Jack being conned too or is there really a tumor (I think there is really a tumor but it could be an elaborate play on him)? A submarine and a second island...hmmm...
OK, I guess Westies are busy watching the ep and won't get "spoiled" if I mention this. Here is a list of maps on the Blackrock website that folks have put together (not to say that they are correct, but their efforts are nice):
http://www.blackrock.nl/content/view/24/42/
On the L-pedia site, someone mentioned tonight that Rousseau marked a small islet (south) on her map as "Alex", possibly marking where Alex was being held. Is one of these islets where Othertown is, i.e., the top of which Benry, Sawyer, et.al., were standing? And if so, I don't really understand what the big reveal was supposed to be to Sawyer. Ok, the big island has some baby islands. Did I miss the point? Thanks.
Hmmm, Oh2dc, I didn't catch them saying that, I really need to watch again. That's interesting. The whole deal about how much the Others know about the Swan/blast/purplesky is the big Q. Especially since then-Fenry faked knowing about it, faked that it was inconsequential, and faked pushing or not pushing the button, to Locke. But someone (who smokes) was most likely in the Pearl station watching the Losties in the Swan, or so we are led to speculate.
Otherville and the Hydra could be in very separate locales, but they would have to have some serious underground transport system to get around like that. Even just some major tunnelage without mechanical transport would be possibly needed.
BTW, could this non-seeable island be where the cable that Sayid found be leading to? And perhaps was Desmond goofily throwing rocks out into that general direction last week because he senses something out there?
But, even thought the Others might not be Dharma, they could be utilizing a lot of the old D.I. equipment anyway.
The sub thing would be nice, if they had some kind of Captain Nemo thing going on too, for their previous underwater research!
Dangit, more questions than answers once again. :-)
True, I guess it's vous et moi until the Westies finish their episode.
Ask Dark Angel how far polar bears can swim, he knows! :-)
I guess I'm out for tonight. Looking forward to blogging tomorrow. G'night oh2dc!
Benry told Sawyer that Hydra Island was approx. "twice the size of Alcatraz Island" in the San Francisco Bay. That means that Hydra is almost 38 acres...not all that large...
I found this whole episode to be quite puzzling, and not very forthcoming.
Some thoughts on previous comments, and my own observations:
-Polar bears can swim comfortably for 20-40 miles (global warming, of course, is forcing them well beyond this comfort zone).
-Otherville was on the Losties' island. If memory serves, you could see the tail section crash site from the aerial view of Otherville just before the end of the open.
-I dig the idea of Desmond knowing that something important lies in the direction of his rock-throwing.
-No Others are likeable to me. I'm thrilled to death to see them getting f-ed with by Jack and Sawyer. Wasn't sad at all to see Colleen go. I can't imagine any circumstance or mitigation of their behavior that will make them sympathetic to me.
-Did anyone notice the cartoon Jack was watching at the beginning? Interesting parallel to our Losties' dillema can be found here.
-Interested to see whether the obvious value of Jack's expertise is indeed the reason they need him, or if that's a red herring too.
Us westcoasters just finished! Wow, great episode IMHO. We got some valuable info, and some more insight into our Losites.
Sawyer's flashback in prison showed once a con always a con...but one with a heart of gold.
Jack was definitely taken for a reason...he's a spinal surgeon and they need his expertise (Ben has the tumor). On the hilltop, Ben quotes from "Of Mice and Men": "A guy gets too lonely, he gets sick..." Not sure yet what they need Kate and Sawyer for. But they weren't randomly picked! (Did have a spinal surgeon on Flight 815 just happen?)
Desmond's still wierd and clairvoyant. He knows a downpour and lightening is coming. Was the "experiment" (the golf club) put exactly there near Claire's place to draw the lightenting away since she wouldn't leave to have Desmond fix her roof (a ploy to try to get her to move away for awhile). Loved Charlie's throwaway line regarding Desmond's strangeness when he tells Clair: "We've got to get that gang another button to push."
So we learn Juliet's a fertility doctor. Where are the kids? Also, some more of the tension between her and Ben is displayed. Especially when Jack asks to talk to Benjamin (not Ben?). Juliet: We make decision together. I don't answer to him.
So there are a least 2 islands (part of a chain?). I don't think Otherville is on the "alcatraz island". The Others have the use of a sub. Pickett says: "The sub is back." That's how they got on the sailboat past Sayid and Jin.
The pacemaker ploy was a little overboard...but I guess it tamed Sawyer. It was interesting that just before the syringe was plunged into Sawyer's chest, Jason (the guy that put the wood in his mouth for the pain) says to the Syringe Guy: "It was to go through the sternum, like in the mov...(movie)." What movie? An orientation film? Or some horror film they've watched and got this idea from? Ben tells Sawyer that they had to con a con man. "You're pretty good, but we're better." Sawyer seems to have been broken.
The beatings Sawyer gets in the episode are pretty brutal...first from Ben and then from Pickett. I guess since Colleen was Picket's wife, he blames Sawyer as a respresentative of the Losties to take out his grief...but that was a pretty violent beating. Even though Kate admits to Sawyer that she said she loved him just to get Pickett to stop, we do see that she would stay together or die alone. She won't leave him behind. They're in this together.
Just some quick responses to tonight's episode. Probably not too many around now to get into major discussions tonight.
Some further observations while fresh in my mind:
When Sawyer and Kate see stretcher go by with injured Coleen on it...Kate wonders what happened. Sawyer says "It's us against them", knowing that one of the Losties did it.
Well, we find out Sawyer is 35 and weights around 180. Important information!
Bunny rabbit was number "8". Sawyer's prison number was 840. Embezzler's prison number was 248. All part of our numbers.
Ben says "We're not killers." when Sawyer asks why they don't just kill him.
Sawyer has a tough time calming down while watching Kate change. Gives himself a cold shower!
The Others knew the EMP ruined their communications...their lines of communication are down. The EMP happened 2 days ago.
Well Guys, sounds like a cool episode, glad my prediction from the podcast about Jack and Colleen played out :)
Capcom with regards to swimming polar bears TheBookpolice is completely correct about polar bears swimming ability they are incredibly strong swimmers, as they hunt on ice flows they often have to swim across open water, in fact here are a few Polar Bear swimming facts for you:)
1. Polar bears are strong swimmers; they swim across bays or wide leads without hesitation. They can swim for several hours at a time over long distances. They've been tracked swimming continuously for 100 km (62 mi.) (Stirling, 1988).
2. A polar bear's front paws propel them through the water dog-paddle style. The hind feet and legs are held flat and are used as rudders.
3. A thick layer of blubber (fat), up to 11 cm (4.3 in.) thick, keeps the polar bear warm while swimming in cold water (Stirling, 1988).
4. Polar bears can obtain a swimming speed of 10 kph (6.2 mph) (Stirling, 1988).
5. The hair of a polar bear easily shakes free of water and any ice that may form after swimming.
6. A polar bear's nostrils close when under water.
It is therefore not only possible that the bear could have swam across the main island but highly likely as they would move to an area with a good source of prey as they would in the wild.
What an Interesting Episode. I have arbunch to talk about on this weeks podcast and here's your chance to get in on the action. Don't forget to send your MP3 comments and e-mails to passafistwastaken@gmail.com.
Or call (206) 600-0952 (it's a toll call to Washington State), the lost community podcast voicemail box and leave your comments there.
Also I have another homework assignment we're going to talk about on the show next week and I was hopinf for some suggestions on topic for the Podcast during the 12 week break! Any ideas..???
WORD UP!! Thanks for your help!!
Oh and I forgot to mention, I'll be out of town until sunday afternoon which means you get til Sunday at 1 (est) to get comments in this week. So ROCK ON and God Bless!!!
Good Morning Losties.
I have to say I called it correctly that they were not on the Island anymore. Unfortunately, I didn't put it in writing so you'll have to take my word for it.
Also, who remembers the submarine in this image from the summer Experience?
Wow, awesome episode last night giving way to more questions...
1. Sawyer really has a daughter with Cassidy or is she just conning him?
2. There are 2 islands?
3. Juliet is a fertility doctor but where are all the children?
One of the best lines... Sawyer to Pickett "What do I have to do, talk about your mother?"
GOOD MORNING EVERYONE!
The American Express Exclusives site has been updated. You can log-in using: Rachel Blake / 888-258-3741
I have uploaded the photos here: http://flickr.com/photos/lostchibbie/sets/72157594345675696/
The video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9iSIkbPH2E
Here are the questions:
• Number Alert: You can never get away from the numbers. Is there any significance to how things are grouped or labeled in this world?
• I Don't Answer to Ben: Why is Jack challenging Juliet’s authority? Is he manipulating the tension between Juliet and Ben?
• The Sub is Back: Did Ben say"sub"? The Others have a submarine? Is this what Colleen meant about"the Galaga"?
• Every Man for Himself: Sawyer reveals to Kate the plan he's formulating for an escape that doesn't include Jack. His ultimate philosophy means he's on his own.
• Number Alert: Sawyer's surrounded by the numbers. Can you spot them? Are there other bunnies?
• Watch Your Stash: Sawyer professes hatred for the prison warden and offers fellow inmate Munson some advice about the millions he stole.
• Like in the Movie: The Others strap Sawyer down and instruct each other to inject him through the sternum like in the movie. What movie are they referring to?
• Keep Your Heart Rate Down: Ben tells Sawyer that they've implanted a pacemaker in him like the one in the rabbit, which he kills for effect. Are the Others really the good guys?
• Meet Your Daughter: During a visitation, Sawyer angrily denies to Cassidy that Clementine is his child. Is Sawyer more affected than he’s willing to show? Is this a con?
• These Aren't of Colleen: While in surgery on Colleen, Jack notices x-rays of a male patient with a very large tumor on his vertebrae. Who is Jack really meant to save?
• Yes, I Love Him: An enraged Pickett attacks Sawyer after Colleen dies. Is Kate telling the truth about loving Sawyer? Or just lying to stop the beating?
• Another Book in Sawyer's Library: A guy goes nuts if he ain't got nobody. Sawyer quotes from Steinbeck's novel to the Others and gets it quoted right back at him.
• Live Together, Die Alone: Despite her best efforts to convince him, Sawyer refuses to join Kate in escaping. She squeezes back into her cage.
• Can I Borrow That Golf Club?: After failing to get Claire to move from her tent, Desmond rigs a lightning rod nearby. How did he know lightning would strike Claire’s tent?
• It's Alive, It's Alive!: There was never a pacemaker -- the only thing they put inside Sawyer was doubt. Just more mind games from the Others?
• Nowhere to Run: Ben reveals to Sawyer they’re being held on a small island off the main island. There’s nowhere to run even if they do escape. Now what?
im only here for a few seconds. after this post, i have to go, but i just wanted to say
i believed clemintine was sawyer's daughter, until the end when sawyer gave all the money to her.
then i knew, this has to be a con.
ill be back later.
hang on. before i go, i just want to see if i can answer some of those.
Why is Jack challenging Juliet’s authority? Is he manipulating the tension between Juliet and Ben?
it reminded me of when benry was being held prisoner in the hatch. he challenged lockes authority.
The Others strap Sawyer down and instruct each other to inject him through the sternum like in the movie. What movie are they referring to?
pulp fiction. when i was watching the scene last night during lost, i thought to myself, this is just like the scene in pulp fiction!
Ben tells Sawyer that they've implanted a pacemaker in him like the one in the rabbit, which he kills for effect. Are the Others really the good guys?
i thiught that turned out to be fake.
After failing to get Claire to move from her tent, Desmond rigs a lightning rod nearby. How did he know lightning would strike Claire’s tent?
psychic
Ben reveals to Sawyer they’re being held on a small island off the main island. There’s nowhere to run even if they do escape. Now what?
swim? i dont know.
nw i really have to go. im really late.
see you later.
sean said...
it reminded me of when benry was being held prisoner in the hatch. he challenged lockes authority.
Yes, you beat me to it. The situation is the same. Even some of the dialog is exactly the same ... "We make decisions together ..."
Also, in that scene Jack mentions holding a broken dish at Juliet's neck. Did I miss something or was that in another deleted scene?
engineer27: the scene, as I remember it, was when Jack holds the broken plate to Juliet's neck was when he tried to escape and Ben came in the door. He said something to effect that he didn't care if Jack slit her throat or not. Then Jack opened the door behind him after Juliet and Ben warned him not to and flooded the room. That's when Juliet knocked him out.
I think this is pretty much how it happened, but if my memory is incorrect, someone please correct me.
scottE:
Wasn't Radzinsky the one who blew his brains out?
I always thought a Clemantine was a small sort of orange! Mind you didn't Droopy used to sing "Oh my Darling Clemantine". Actually in the song Clementine drowned!
leelee2233: check Lost Links. They usually have both the US and Canadian previews.
ib4uc:
Thanks, I think that was it. I remember that scene, I just didn't remember the broken dish part of it.
maven said... Sawyer's flashback in prison showed once a con always a con...but one with a heart of gold.
At first I thought the flashback was about Sawyer being a con man, but in the end, it's really about him looking out for number one.
maven said... (Did have a spinal surgeon on Flight 815 just happen?)
Yes. I think that the first episode showed they didn't cause the plane to crash.
maven said... (Ben has the tumor)
I can't remember the time line correctly, but could those be Sawyer's x-rays?
maven said... The pacemaker ploy was a little overboard...
I agree. I was thinking, Come On! This is ridiculous....even for Lost.
maven said...Ben says "We're not killers." when Sawyer asks why they don't just kill him.
Yeah, except for Scott and Nathan :)
mountain girl said... Does anyone know if there are screen shots of that very last scene?
I CAN"T BELIEVE I FORGOT TO WATCH THE PREVIEWS!! ARRRRRGGGGG!
Screen shots for the "previews" can be found at Lost-media.com
Here is the one you probably mean: http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x05-cost/3x06-preview22.jpg
mountain girl said... And am I missing something? Is it really such a big deal that there is more than one island.
Yes, it's a big deal. This means there is not an easy way to escape. It also means that Locke is NOT going to be able to rescue them.
Other thoughts:
I though it was interesting that they played the sirens when they brought Jack outside so he couldn't hear Kate & Sawyer.
nobody beleived my theories the last few weeks but i was right on nearly all of them. 1. they brought jack to their base for his spinal surgery skills. 2. There is some kind of fertitlity angle. 3. Ben admires Sawyers moxy and needs him for something else.
i bet the eyepatch guy is an original dharma guy. Since jack has to operate on ben. I might add that i was also right that the others live on a seperate smaller island. This revalation also makes the ferry meaningless because it just ferries you back and forth between two islands in the middle of nowhere. I would also like to reiterate my theory that nonne can leave the island all ben has proved is that he can recieve info from the outside world, not that he can leave
The US Promo for next week is avaiable at Lost Spoilers I understand that there is no Canadian Promo this week.
******Possible spoiler theory from Promo********
2Costa I agree I have suspicions that the guy with the eyepatch might be Radynsky (or however you spell it), although that must mean that Kelvin lied to Desmond as it is pretty hard to fake blowing your brains out!
**************END******************
I want to start here today by saying that I loved this episode. Ok... now I'm going to read the comments before continuing. :))
Clementine was the name of the Kate Winslet character in the excellent Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. A movie about memory manipulation.
Now that might be relevent - mind manipulation sounds like conning someone to me!
scott.e.tuhauddy - The Tailies found the glass eye in the Arrow station, not Locke. But good catch! I hadn't made that connection yet.
And it's "Radzinsky," for those unsure of the spelling.
**** Possible Preview spoiler *****
2costa said... i bet the eyepatch guy is an original dharma guy.
It must be Radzinsky. There was a glass eye found in the Arrow station, along with the Bible.
[They find a bible and some blankets.]
BERNARD: What else in here?
LIBBY [finding the thing that fell]: It's a glass eye.
The missing orientation film clip was also found in the bible by Eko:
EKO: Hello. I have something I think you should see.
[Eko unwraps the book and pushes it toward Locke]
EKO: I believe what's inside there will be of great value to you.
[Locke opens the book. A square has been cut out, and inside is a piece of film.]
Radzinsky was the one who edited the film.
[The film reel ends there, and Desmond takes it off the projector.]
INMAN [donning his environmental suit]: How many times are you going to watch that thing?
DESMOND: Why are there missing parts?
INMAN: Radzinsky made some edits.
The question is how would they see Radzinsky on the carmeras if he is dead? It looks like they hacked the system and are playing back the video tape.
*******
How come no one else sees that "the sub" could refer to Desmond (he was the substitute filling in to push the button)? It is mentioned just after the Others expedition party returns from the encounter w/ Desmond's boat (even though he is not on it)...
INTERESTING - here's a Lost connection in the scifi (old Star Trek) area, if you can remember back that far!
1. The comments by Ben about being lonely on the island,
2. the "powers" he has shown on the island, among them various illusions
3. the circular path that boats seem to take when they try to escape,
4. the idea that Ben brought Jack to his world for a purpose (surgery?)
5. the idea that Ben may have been a child on the island with Dharma,
6. Ben may have forced the plane to crash on the island in the 1st place.
7. the games that Ben is playing with the Lost survivors (mental + physical)
8. that there is likely some machine OR higher power (like "Him") that is more powerful than Ben...he is under "his" thumb and seems as stuck on the island as the Losties.
REMIND you Star Trek fans of anything?
The character is named "Trelane" and the episode is "Squire of Gothos" -- there are very interesting parallels, making me think the writers are drawing a bit on this old Star Trek for some ideas.
See http://www.ericweisstein.com/fun/startrek/TheSquireOfGothos.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Squire_of_Gothos
Dennis - Excellent! No pun intended, but you have indeed pieced it all together. Your brain is obviously working faster than at least mine this morning.
Aagh to much info....
I'm trying to get through everything on my desk at work and this is too tempting.
************Possible spoiler*********
I like the idea that the image of the one eyes guy is an archived image from the tapes and is Radzinsky. I don't think it is Alvar Hanso as TPTB have said that no characters from TLE will appear in Lost.
********************************
Well this is certianly giving me plenty of stuff for the audio for the Podcast :)
I think I'm in the camp that eyepatch guy is Radzinsky. The glass eye being left in the Arrow station was definitely a clue (Good catch, Scott.e. Thanks Dennis for posting that dialogue.) I always thought there was no real proof that Radzinsky was dead. Kelvin lied to Desmond many times, didn't he?
If you look closely at the screen cap there seems to be a reel to reel tape like those used in original computor rooms from the 70's. It's behind glass because there's reflections. So there is a separate room. The picture seems very dated, or it just can be the use of the old DI monitor. But eyepatch guy knows he's being watched.
There should be a thread in the message board for people to pat themselves on the back for predicting parts of the show. I feel like I should predict that another one of our Losties will die by the end of the season. I'll be sure to post that I was right when it happens, but I won't say anything if I am wrong so no worries.
Best episode of the season--thus far. And do not disagree.
X-Ray Theory
Who could the X-ray be of?
• Ben - Why would Ben's x-rays be on display? It this to get Jack to help him? Is this why Ben doesn't want to leave the island?
• Jack - X-rays could have been taken when he was unconscious. He can't operate on himself. Could he teach Juliet spinal surgery?
• John - X-rays could have come from their files on everyone. This would explain his losing the ability to walk. Now that he's restored his faith on the island, and the island has restored his ability to walk, would he let Jack operate on him?
I just read most of the comments and I had an idea from something Maven said; "So, Juliet is a fertility doctor, so where are all the children? Somewhere in my knowledge of science fiction I remember it being said that "clones" could not bare children by normal conventional means. Not that they could not "bump uglies" but that thier bodies rejected the fertilization of an egg. Could this be why Juliet is on the island????
CattyGirl said... There should be a thread in the message board for people to pat themselves on the back for predicting parts of the show. I feel like I should predict that another one of our Losties will die by the end of the season. I'll be sure to post that I was right when it happens, but I won't say anything if I am wrong so no worries.
LOL :)
Dennis Pretty sure the X-rays are Ben's - they were up beacuse Juliet was looking at them but realised she did not have the experience to operate.
Thrasher As far as I am aware there is no reason for clones to be sterile (mind you I studied genetics before clonong was actually achieved) But saying that I thought TPTB had dismissed the whole clone thing alosng with nanobots, snowglobes and purgatory.
I think the children are all in Othersville with Auntie Bea, apart from Alex and Karl now they're all grown up.
thrasher - ewwww. I hope this doesn't end up being the case.
In fact thinking about it Clones definately would be fertile, of course as this is fiction something in the process could have made them infertile.
If they are infertile could it be that the magnetic anomolie is responsible for their infertitlty
or is it a side effect of the life extension project. If you are going to make someone imoortal then you don't want them breeding or pretty quickly we run out of space!
and it could be my spelling has gone totally to pot....
typing too fast
sorry guys
Maybe I have been watching too many of my Highlander TV series DVD's lately.
"In the End, there can be only one!" May it be Duncan MaCleod!!
Anyone notice the further evidence of Juliet conning Jack? She says "I'm a fertility doctor, I'm not used to death." I think Sawyer would definitely disagree with her on this one.
I honestly do not have the skills to piece together who the one-eyed man is, but after reading here I was surprised to see Radzinsky (thank you bookpolice for the spelling which is funny in itself with bookpolice as a username) brought up as a suspect. Sure enough, I watched the preview again. They are watching the film they found in the Pearl Station of the Swan Station so now I see finally how people have figured this out. Good job community. I am enjoying this episode and its discussion so much more than the last 3.
ACK!!! I have to go and get ready for work!! Talk with you all agian next Lost day! I am still trying to keep up with all your brilliance!
Until then,
Peace & Namaste!
wv: bjolyisd
Be JOLY In Super Dome?
Bye, Thrasher...have a good week!
I don't think they're clones. TPTB dismissed that idea a while ago.
What puzzles me is that Juliet says she's a fertility doctor. Now she seems to be in her mid 30's. But where did she get her medical training? On the island, from her Dharma parents? Or did she come to the island after her schooling? Or is she just self-taught? She's wearing Dharma doctor clothes. She seemed to know something during the Coleen "surgery", but she said she's not a surgeon. Current fertility doctors do surgery all the time! It's something she would be normally trained to do for any medical speciality (I watch enough TV doctor shows!).
Call me old SchoolThrasher but I always thought "The One" Was Conner McCloud.
"Here we are, born to be kings, were the princes of the universe"
Oh bugger, now you've got me started
Yes, Benjamin needs Sawyer to help him con Jack into performing the required surgery.
I notice he suddenly started calling him "Sawyer" instead of "James" right when he started asking for help.
Another thing that was interesting to me: They walked Jack (with the burlap bag over his head) right past the zoo cages where Sawyer and Kate were, blasting the sirens so he couldn't hear them if they yelled at him. Was that the only path to the "hospital" area? The Others seem to always come and go out of nowhere...it seems funny that that was the only way to take Jack. (Dramatic effect anyone?)
maven ... They want Kate and Sawyer to see Jack ... less likely that they will try to escape without him, since they know he's there.
Also, "Cole" is dying, that way might have just been the fastest way to get Jack to the operating theatre.
I need to update what I said earlier. Benry seemed genuinely upset when Juliet brought Jack over. Either that was an act for Jack's benefit, or Juliet is pursuing her own agenda. Perhaps she wants Jack to take care of Benry because of their imputed past history. That means that Benry needs Sawyer for another purpose.
The island that Ben and Sawyer are standing on in the last scene doesn't seem very tropical to me. Looks like a lot of dry brush and rocks. If Hydra Station is on this island, I didn't see any lush vegetation during the end of the episode.
Hi guys, wow what an episode. It is getting interesting. I hope we get some more answers next week. So there is another island? hmm maybe. But they have a sub!!! That explains how they got to Desmonds boat without being noticed! So who here is wondering who the guy with one eye is? I know I am. Any ideas?
Yes, Mountain girl, I don't see "Alex" island either. There are a few off-shore small islands. Maybe one of those is Hydra Station?
its bens x-ray they showed a clip of jack saying he had to operate on bens back or whatever. The intruging thing is why would ben have a tumor on healing island, and i think the answer is tied to the faith healer in australia. He said differnt spots have difernt frequencies. SO i guess it is the wrong frequency to prevent benrys tumor...
i bet kelvin wasnt trying to escape he was gonna go to the others island
Oh yah. My man Sawyer coming through with the humanity again! And so many answers tonight! So now I know that even if Benry says he's lived his entire life on the island, not all of them have. (The two guys talking about where to stab Sawyer with the adrenaline needle made reference to Pulp Fiction. Yay Quinten) I know what happened to Kate that bruised up her wrists so bad after breakfast (I always thought what ever they did to her had to have something to do with reproduction, and now Juliet is a reproductive specialist...he he he.) The purple light in the sky was an EMP burst. (Mr. Friendly all but said so as Sawyer was coming to in the tank.) But biggest and badest of all...no...I don't particularly care if there is a second island...they have as sub! I knew they could get off the island. I knew it! (Of corse that’s assuming no one is going to come back with a transcript from last night and tell me that while Benry clearly said sub, in fact he was supposed to say boat.)
Ok. I'll stop for now. I won't have time to read what everyone is saying till lunch. Till then...have fun. ;)
scott, yes I did browse thru the other comments. Yes it might be Radzinski. Fine. But where is he is the question. Who here thinks that ben is locke's brother?
P.s. Hi Maven!!!
my wife made a good point maybe julliette being a fertility docter is tired to sun and jin and why they knew sun's whole name and that goes with my theory that sun's dad sent them to the island on purpose. Paik industries is prolly like widmore. Marvin candle may even be sun's uncle
Maven,
I know you guys are looking at Rousseau's map, and seeing those "small islands" in front of it, but have you looked closer to realize that what she is describing could be underground? She describes coral reefs, obviously not above ground since we didn't see it when Sawyer looked over at the island. Also, a wreck of some kind, possibly her boat., and quick moving sand, bay of crabs, all things you would know if you saw them from under water. Maybe rousseau has been inside the submarine. She also says something about reflections of the see. Maybe the island is hidden by a sort of water mirage, or also that the island is a reflection of some other island? Any thoughts?
making a pulp fiction refernce means nothing in respect to ability to leave the island benry aleady proved he has access to outside world material(redsox world series footage)so whos to say they didnt download pulp fiction...
Correction to above statement, I mean that those things were underwater, not underground, sorry.
going on an acters looks is no way to judge his heritage. Kim jong ill routinely kidnaps people from japan and south korea.
japan and korea go way back
mr miyagi was hawaiian
2costa - That reference and the sub. They can leave. But really that reference tells me more that not all of them were born there.
Howdy all,
Still trying to catch up on comments. Great epi and good comments. Nice catch about the Russeau map. Here's my list of interesting items.
1. "Been two days since the sky has been purple, we've been blind, our comms are down, and I can't get them back up." Tom said this to Ben as Sawyer is waking up from his butt woopin. Seems to indicate standard methods of communication are down (they still have radios since we saw Pickett with one and someone radioed in that Sayid found the fake village)and they either lost view to their camera's, or more specifically lost their ability to see the Swan. Either way, a juicy nugget.
2. All hail Pulp Fiction. A great reference to the Tarantino classic. "Just like in the movie." I thought it was hilarious that everyone I was wathcing the epi with, cringed when he stuck Sawyer with the needle, even though it was less graphic.
3. Intercom: I am dying to know what was said on the intercom. So far, I can make out "It was a mistake bringing you two here" and "Jack, do you know what your doing"
4. Good People?? The others make so much reference to them being good people and not killers. The conversation between Ben and Tom was chilling. "You know Danny wants to kill him" Ben didn't seem to disagree or state that is not their belief. He simply replies "Danny will have to wait"
5. Another good con by Sawyer to get out of jail, and a bad con by the others. I can't beleive Sawyer fell for it.
6. How did the animals get to the main island if they were all being held on Alcatraz. Boars, polar bears, etc.
7. Confirmation of a submarine
8. Juliette a fertility doctor. Intersting?
9. Kates omage to Jack. "Live together, die alone." Kate loves Jack not Sawyer.
Looking forward to discussions.
Tommy said...
Anyone notice the further evidence of Juliet conning Jack? She says "I'm a fertility doctor, I'm not used to death." I think Sawyer would definitely disagree with her on this one.
Agreed. Sawyer sized her up as someone who has no problem with death or killing someone. Sawyer's first instinct is normally correct.
leelee2233 said...
ok, the line that really struck me in this episode is when Ben says to Sawyer "The only way to earn the respect of a con man is to con him" and then Ben calls him Sawyer.
Are these two going to be Allies in this whole song and dance? Just a thought...
Everyone has had a great take on the con angle. I agree Ben will want Sawyer to con Jack into something. I ahve said since before season 3 that the others will use Kate and Sawyer against Jack for a purpose.
We have already seen Sawyer con the girl he loved (Cassy), an prisoner who seemed overwhelmed by the experience, his conman partner, and the losties. Is it possible the others will offer Sawyer a "every man for himself" deal.
I thought that was the point of the Sawyer/Kate escape scene. Sawyer would have left Kate behind if the situation is reversed. We also see his willingness to leave Jack behind early on in the epi. Sawyer has always had to take care of himself. He was the same way with Michael when the tailess were leading them back to the lagees. Very willing to leave him behind.
I anticipate the others needing Sawyer help, and using the every man for himself mentality to their advantage. Or will it backfire?
I think the Others truly underestimate Sawyer -- they think they are conning him but it's the other way around. Hopefully, it will backfire against them.
And, deep down inside, I think Sawyer cares what happens to Kate and Jack. Like when they were walking Jack past the cages, if Sawyer didn't care, he probably would have sat back and done nothing. Instead, he was yelling just as loud as Kate to get his attention. Unfortunately, it was all for nothing...
Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...
I still like the theory that "Sub" meant Desmond. He was subbing in hitting the button, and they said that after they came back from looking at Desmond's boat.
Totally disagree. I don't see how people can logically come to that conclusion. To quote
Ben: "Juliett I need you.
Juliett: Can it wait.
Ben: The sub is back. We have a situation. So come with me now."
The next thing you see is Pickett being interupted by a radio and Juliett and Ben running out of the hatch to meet the boat crew. To quote:
Tom: "She's hurt bad Juliett."
I believe that line was there to answer the question about how they crept up on the sailboat and their mobility. It is logical they have a submarine. They could move without being seen.
The others knew nothing of Desmond's boat, which would mean we are uncertain how much the others know about Desmond. I just cannot see how they would be afraid of Desmond.
While I agree the others used Colleens situation to their advantage and con Jack, their intial intention was to save her life. Once it fell through, they used it to their advantage.
diggitydirge: I agree with you on this. Once you read back the dialogue, it makes total sense that they are referring to a submarine, not Desmond.
Okay, so after last night's episode I've got an update to my "lost horizon" connection theory.
"Who am I here to save?"
In the Lost Horizon novel: the High Lama is dying (after living for 100's of years). With his means of contacting the outside world, he finds the writings of Hugh Conway, and studies this man from afar. The High Lama decides that this is the man with the right philosophy to carry on his vision in Shangri-La, and he has one of his subjects hijack the plane that Hugh Conway is flying in to bring him there. But when attempting to land plane in the village, the plane crashes and the pilot dies.
Lost tv show (my theory): the leader of the others is dying of a spinal tumor. With their means of contacting the outside world, they discover Jacks's work, and see that he's worked miracles (in the episode The Hunting Party we learn of Jack's legendary status). The others then use what means they have to divert the plane that Jack is on to bring him to the island. But the plane crashes and the pilot dies.
- The pilot said that they were a thousand miles off course. Could this have been intentional? The others may not have 'caused' the plane to crash, but they may have been trying to get the plane to land on the island, regardless.
- What are the odds that a world renowned spinal surgeon would crash land on an island where someone needs a spinal tumor removed?
- Also in the book, this isn't the first time they've brought people to the village by dubious means. In fact, one of the women, a major love-interest character, was brought there "by accident" as well, and she is one of the key characters that discovered Hugh's work to begin with, and convinces him to stay once he's there. Could Juliet be one of the many that the others have brought there for their purposes (fertility)? On the island, there are multiple crashes - Henry Gale's balloon, Rousseau's boat, Desmond, etc. The others could have brought Juliet there in the same way. Did she do the research on Jack to begin with? And is her job now to convince Jack to stay?
for more on the whole "lost horizon' theory, check out http://lostinshangrila.blogspot.com/
I just checked for the whispers dialogue on the lage and it isn't up yet. I really want to know what was said on that intercom. Someone said they heard the name Karl, the kid that helped Sawyer escape.
Here's what I can make out:
_____(Name, sounded like Jack), do you know what your doing?........It was a mistake brining you two here.
I would also love to know why the others are blinded since the hatch imploded. Camera's, extrasensory perception (I'm sure I murdered the spelling on that), etc.
Also, why would Karl try to escape from an island (Alcatraz) that no one can escape from according to Ben.
Good day all, excellent theories and comentaries!
About the maps, way up at the top-ish, right after the show last night I posted what the Blackrock website has made up for possible maps of the island, including the stations in overlay (two differing ones), and all the tiny islets near the main island. One in the south is named Alex....because Rousseau knew she was there?
Good call someone made about seeing the mainland from Alcatraz and Hydra island, purposely causing despair. I haven't watched the ep a second time yet, but it looked swimmable to me......maybe.
Yay to those who made the connection betweenn the eyepatch and the yucky eyeball the Tailies found.
"The movie" could possibly just be any of the probably hundreds of training films that the D.I. seems to enjoy making. Training films are actually much more efficient than personal instructor training for basic overall information, especially if you're isolated and short on instructors.
I thought that when Ben said something about them being better at conning, Sawyer gave him a look as if to say, "You haven't beaten me out yet, there are still plenty of tricks up my sleave!"
I don't know what to think if Clementine is really Sawyer's, or if he had just been conned in return considering it involved an exchange of money. Could they all have been conning him? (the warden, the inmate and his ex?)
DarkAngel, it was Huckleberry Hound who sang "Oh My Darling...", but how U.S Baby-Boomer-ish of you to be so close! Did they show old U.S. cartoons in the Uk? :-)
It was great seeing Jack back in action as a doctor again, it was nice to see him with some self-assurance and take-charge confidence again.
And yay for the poster reference to another great Queen movie soundtrack, that first Highlander was awesome.
capcom said... Good call someone made about seeing the mainland from Alcatraz and Hydra island, purposely causing despair. I haven't watched the ep a second time yet, but it looked swimmable to me......maybe.
The distance might be swimmable, but don't forget about the Dharma Sharks! Sawyer almost got eaten once, I don't think he would try that again.
Here is a picture of the mainland from the island: http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x04-himself/3/3x05-man-cap867.jpg
Here is a picture of the distance between Alcataz and the mainland (1.4 miles): http://www.mana-allison.com/gallery/images/sf-alcatraz.jpg
You know, seeing the previews for next week and seeing the patch-over-the-eye guy, makes me think of a TLE player gone missing... dazzedelf, where are you?
Capcom said: "I don't know what to think if Clementine is really Sawyer's, or if he had just been conned in return considering it involved an exchange of money. Could they all have been conning him? (the warden, the inmate and his ex?)"
I really think the kid is legitimally his. The con to get the money for the Warden/Feds was just that...a con for Sawyer to get a deal to get out of prison. Sawyer being pure Sawyer...looking out for himself. Until he showed a touch of heart by giving the money to Clementine...is he on his way to Albuquerque now? Sawyer also showed some compassion by not telling Kate that a "pacemaker" was implanted in him. Remember, he was told if he told her what they did to him, they would do it to Kate also. He also tries to get her to run and leave him behind (maybe he just thought his pulse would go over the danger zone and he'd explode if attempted an escape, or maybe he realized that they were surveiling them in the cages anyway.
maven: I think Sawyer really does care about Kate and Jack, as I've said before. He's just puts on the tough-man front but really does have a heart.
Hi Guys,
Just sticking my head in to catch up -
Digity Dirge said
How did the animals get to the main island if they were all being held on Alcatraz. Boars, polar bears, etc.
We discussed this earlier but basically polar bears are incredibly good swimmers (a 62 mile swim has been recorded) so the distance between the islands is no problem. As for the boars I have assumed that they were indigenous to the island.
Capcom said DarkAngel, it was Huckleberry Hound who sang "Oh My Darling...", but how U.S Baby-Boomer-ish of you to be so close! Did they show old U.S. cartoons in the Uk? :-)
Aargh - I new it was one of the two, but yes we got all the old US cartoons. I always remeber watching them on a Saturday afternoon between the sport and news. My dad would always walk in stop and watch the whole cartoon standing there pretending he was just walking through ;)
Cyberyang I wondered whether Ben was Alex's father
OK
Sorry, didn't think what I wrote would be a problem hence my email address at the bottom for more details and the spoiler warning.
But I will delete it immediately - I was just replying to your email!
Cyberyang Oh OK - no Ben is certainly not Alex - Alex "Saviour of Claire and donor of dresses to Kate" is clearly Alex Rosseau
I have a question.
Does there being two islands really mean anything in the grand scheme of the story?
I have to confess that after everything I'd gleaned up to the point of Sawyer looking out past the cliff top, I was a little disappointed that a second island is what they had built themselves up to. Not that I was disappointed in the ep. By no means. I was pacing back and forth across my living room shouting at the TV during the commercial after Benry said there was a sub. I threw my arms up in total vindication when what sounded like Zek's voice said that after the purple light communications had been knocked out with little hope of fixing it. I had thought that the light was from an electromagnetic pulse for some time now, but had no proof to back up my theory. But two islands...It really doesn't do anything, change anything, make anything more or less important.
It means that Otherville must be on the big island while the Hydra station is on the smaller island, or the tunnel system is around and working. Otherwise Goodwin and Ethan would have had problems running to the crash sights. But other than that I don't see what the big deal is. We've established that the currents circle around the islands, otherwise Juliet would have been more worried about the sailboat getting away. So the water going through the channel between the two islands isn't going to sweep anyone out to sea should they try to swim it. (This is one of the problems faced by any trying to swim away from Alcatraz) And that's if the current is strong enough to sweep at all. I mean it's a cool idea, and it does pose an interesting problem for any of the Losties looking for J,K,&S. But it really poses no threat to our three captives.
That was long...sorry
I get going and I can't help myself.
Hi Isibell it does mean that Locke & Co are not going to be able to get to Jack, Sawyer and Kate
DA - Unless Des points it out to them. ;)
I love psychic abilities.
dark angel: unless they find the tunnel that the Others use to get from one island to the other.
If there is a tunnel. I think the tunnels are only on the main island and they have to use a boat (like the Pala ferry) or the sub to get to Alcaraz island
Everything Desmond has predicted has happend in the near future. I wonder how far Desmond can see into the future?
108 minutes, maybe?
BTW, Desmond has what's called Precognition.
Dark Angel said... If there is a tunnel. I think the tunnels are only on the main island and they have to use a boat (like the Pala ferry) or the sub to get to Alcaraz island
Unless they have a Chunnel :)
dark angel: you're right. No one knows for sure if there even is a tunnel.
So, when Sayid, Jin, and Sun anchor the boat and Sayid and Jin are setting up the bonfire, what island are they on? I guess I'm confused about who is on what island...
Dennis said Unless they have a Chunnel :)
LOL - from my desk at work I overlook the entrance to the Chunnel (Channel Tunnel)
ib4uc I assumed that Sayid & Jin were on the main island as the others had to use the sub to get there
dark angel: so the Losties are on Alcatraz, the Hydra station is on the other island (where Ben and Sawyer were on the cliff), and where is Otherville?
Wow. What an episode. I really liked this one. I really don't like the three month break in the season, but I guess I can't have everything.
Everything has basically been said, but I will add this:
The pacemaker. Maybe I'm gullible, but I bought it. I don't know much about pacemakers, but I wouldn't put it past the Others to do stuff like that. Hey, anybody see Saw? Or Saw 2? ick. But it makes you think that they could be that crazy. (btw, the Others statement that "we're not killers" is very like the assertion in the Saw movie that Jigsaw never killed anyone, it was always the victim's choice that killed him//her).
So why con Sawyer that way? Well, it prevented Sawyer and Kate from taking advantage of the Colleen distraction. It was right after Sawyer said that Colleen's injury was their "ticket out of here" that Ben came out and took Sawyer to the op room. So I think that is why they did what they did--and exposed it after the distraction was over.
Two islands: is this why TPTB said there are two "camps" of Others? the kids and Miss Klugh live on Lost Island, and Hydra station is on FAlcatraz? Not opposing camps, but just two locations? hmmm I guess it's another reason why Ben was upset they lost the boat.
enough for now, laters
well Ib4uc I think that Amused2bher has just beat me to it and summed it up very nicely.
right I'm off to eat my dinner
falcatraz....I like it.
Amused2bHere said...
Two islands: is this why TPTB said there are two "camps" of Others? the kids and Miss Klugh live on Lost Island, and Hydra station is on FAlcatraz? Not opposing camps, but just two locations? hmmm I guess it's another reason why Ben was upset they lost the boat.
LOL, "Falcatraz". I was thinking "Lost: Exile Island"
About the boat, it must suck to have to take a submarine everywhere. A boat would be a lot easier and faster.
Sorry Scott I had to leave to pick the nephews up from school. The Blackrock website link to their maps is:
http://www.blackrock.nl/content/view/24/42/
I did not do any investigating yet to find out how they got this info, or from what Rousseau map (she had a few that Sayid grabbed, I believe) but the islet to the south is labeled "Alex" on their maps. Could this be Hydra Island?
and one more thing
Fertility doctors: no surgery? Implausible to me. I have had surgery done by a fertility doctor, and don't they routinely remove fibroids, deal with endometriosis, etc...? Or what about the harvesting of eggs for in vitro?
just another point of intrigue
BTW, DA, that's cute how your dad would watch the cartoon. My dad liked Huckleberry too. :-) Must have been a lot of funny 'guy' type references in it by the writers.
We must be breaking the blog server, it's been limping severely today.
Scott, remember they lost the boat to Michael. Now all they have (that we know of) is the sub and the sailboat.
btw, I first thought the "sub" referred to colleen, as the substitute leader on the mission. silly me!
Amused2bHere said... Fertility doctors: no surgery? Implausible to me. I have had surgery done by a fertility doctor, and don't they routinely remove fibroids, deal with endometriosis, etc...? Or what about the harvesting of eggs for in vitro?
I'm not sure what exactly they were operating on (heart, collapsed lung?), but doing out-patient procedures is quite different than open heart surgery. Plus, living on the island, as she said, she hasn't had any practice with ER situations.
And we're back?
Scott.E.Tuhauddy said...
***********Spoilor alert ****************
http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Columnists/Ask-Ausiello/default.aspx
Thanks for posting that Scott!
Calling out to all those still online for help!!!
Isn't the bank that Kate robbed in New Mexico? Anyone remember the specific city. Wondering about another connection between Kate & Sawyer. i.e. Kate robbed the bank where Sawyer setup his daughters account.
It is a far stretch but I have always believed the details are important clues to follow.
Diggity,
Yes, the bank was in New Mexico, but I don't think we were told the exact city. She told the bank manager she was photographing old theaters in small towns implying that she was in a small town.
thxs memphish!
Diggity - I bet if you go back and watch the ep you'll be able to find something in the scene that tells you wich bank. And now that you pointed it out...I bet it was Sawyers bank.
And knowing this show that would be a safe bet.
I tried to post about the current epi earlier, but no luck, so here it goes again.
So now that we know there are 2 islands, when Ben says he'll take Jack "home," does he mean Island #1?
My theory on the tension between Ben and Juliet especially as it regards Juliet getting Jack to help with Colleen. Many have hypothesized that while Ben was in the Hatch, Juliet was in charge of their group. Ben tells Michael he's not happy about the arrangement made with him, but a deal's a deal. I think Juliet wanted Michael to bring Jack to operate on Ben. I think Ben may be in denial about the seriousness of his condition. Maybe, like Locke and Rose, he has faith that the island will heal him, but Juliet disagrees and wants to bring in Jack. It sort of reminds me of those religious groups that reject medical treatment opting for prayer instead.
And finally, TPTB seemed to tell us on the Official Lost Podcast that Karl was an Other, but he doesn't know he's on a different island from the one Sawyer came from? He asks Sawyer "How long would it take to get to your camp? . . . A day, two days?" Strange.
Did anyone else think the pacemaker trick was a classic J.J. Abrams move? Jennifer Garner had to remove a bomb heart implant in the first or second episode of Alias, and Tom Cruise had one in his brain during most of MI:III.
Diggity and isibell,
I looked at the episode transcripts for Whatever the Case May Be and Exodus Part 1 and found no specific names, but there may be some signage in WTCMB that may give a hint. What was the name last night?
thxs Isibell. I'll be checking Season 1 when I get home from work.
memphish: No name was given in this epi.
Agent: "How would you like that?
Sawyer: Setup a new account, don't matter what bank. Just make sure it in Alberquerqe. Put it in the name of Clementine Phillips. & I want it so there's no way she can ever find out who the money's from.
Warden: Who is Clementine Phillips."
I know this is a far stretch about it being the same bank, but the details are what gets me.
(
sorry I murdered the spelling).
Spleling? Who nedes it?
One more thing about Every Man for Himself: When Kate said she loved Sawyer to make Pickett stop beating him, do you think this might mirror something that happened in her past? We know that Wayne was abusive, but Kate tells the Marshal Wayne never laid a hand on her. Was this Wayne's method, to beat up her mother (or maybe some unknown sibling) to get at Kate?
One thing that bothered me about the Pickett beating Sawyer scene: He tries to get Kate to say she loves Sawyer, and when she finally does he stops beating him. That seemed strange to me. If someone said they loved someone, why would you stop beating up on them?
Kate's a hot hot woman Memphish, and despite any spoilers one way or the other I think it's safe to assume that Wayne wasn't the only significant male figure in her life. Father, boyfriend, Fiancé, Husband...Any one of them could have been abusive, or the love of her life.
I do think she said she loved him to get Pickett to stop beating him...but I also think she meant it.
Maven - why did Pickett take it out on Sawyer in the first place, and what did he intend to gain from getting Kate to say she loved him?
Maven, that confused me too, why did Pickett beat up Sawyer, and why did he stop if Kate's answer was affirmative? It seemed to me that if she said that she did love him, that Pickett would hurt him more, because the person that Picket loved was hurt, etc. I dunno, maybe I'm dense. I get the transferrence of Pickett's anger on whatever Lostaway was handy to punish for his loss, but not the love/not love question.
And I'm really getting fed up with the Others' attitude that they can do whatever they want to people, but God forbid their victims try to fight back and keep what is theirs or to save themselves, how dare they?!. I need more than a little explaination about this from TPTB!
To be honest I have yet to be given any reason at all to like the Others. And if one more of them say they are the good guys I'm going to have to go out to that island myself and show them what a good guy really looks like.
(I'm not bitter or anything.)
Evening all.
Okay so I've realised there are clear hints as to who HIM is in this episode. Firstly there is the cartoons at the start, then there is the Albuquerque references and the repeated use of a bunny. Plus the fact that it's possible there is an escape route to the main island in the form of a tunnel (well why not). So I think who could HIM be other then a self confessed "Stinker"?
See where I'm going with that?
Hi Fenris! Welcome back to Blogtown, hope you're trip to Rome went well.
Would you be thinking of a certain tunneling carrot eater????????? :-) If so, then who is Mr. Fudd?
On a more serious note, the Blackrock map site also shows an animation picturing an overlay that illustrates the triangle area that Sayid discovered on D.R.'s maps. One of the views shows the small islands at the bottom of her elevation map, where it says something about "the...crabs". Could one of these be the "Alex" (Hydra) island that is labeled on the other maps? I'm just trying to get a bead on this crazy new mini-island information.
http://www.blackrock.nl/content/view/20/38/
I also think that it's silly for Benry to think that a desperate person would not even try to swim across to the main island. The same fear and necessity that causes an animal to gnaw off it's paw to escape from a trap, could compel someone to take a stab at swimming away from the Hydra torture cages. Let's see, the choices are a)being the subject of painful human lab-rat experiments, or b)possibly dying by swimming to the big island.......I choose "b", I think.
Capcom - yes exactly. Perhaps Mr.Fudd is an agent for Widmore.
Okay real comments.
1) The way Kate was asking what happened to Sawyer I actually wonder if it's because of something happening to her that she hasn't told anyone about herself. (the missing time in episode 1).
2) Charlie is becomming quite hard to like.
3) I think jack is developing well. He's starting to show some potential and I still reckon he's going to snap at some point.
4) Sawyer actually isn't developing as much as I'd like given it was his flashback day and I keep thinking he's a bit too willing to take a beating still.
5) Kate is showing some bottle and initiative again. About time! Still, she doesn't seem to have the fugitive fight in her anymore.
6) How is Locke going to rescue them? Unless there is an underground passage or Micheal comes back on his boat or they dig up yet another boat.
7) The indifference of the new Lostie at the beach makes more sense then the angry loudmouthness of the previous episode, but it is still strange. I wonder if they always planned to introduce new characters like that. To be fair it's not an easy thing to do and they must know from Season 2 the backlash they can get by forcing chracters that aren't that likable onto the audience. They are taking it slowly and that is about right. I wasn't keen on there introduction in episode 3, personally I think they should have "introduced" the actors properly as background characters before they started getting involved fully. Still they can't keep the other survivors in the background forever, they aren't just red shirts after all.
8) Desmond's ability is very cool. Hurley is freaked by it which is also cool. Hurley does freaked almost as well as desmond does being slightly mad and strangely mysterious. It is interesting for the Losties to have something a bit more supernatural to deal with but it's also a brave step away from the pure science view point. Well maybe not I guess, because it all can of course fit in with the Valencetti equation. But it still pushes the suspenion of disbelief a little. Personally I'm cool with it.
9) Sawyers one of the few losties to get laid recently, but she sure got excited easily by Kate. Lol. Sorry but that was so predictable. Him throwing the water on himself was funny however. :) Predictible is okay sometimes.
10) Why does Ben need Sawyers respect? I can only think that they need him for something on the covert side.
I'm tired and am going to bed. Lol.
hello lost friends!
i most often lurk around here (my powers of thinking are so not up to par)
but i thought i would share this super fun video from these two guys who are trying to get their own show.
i figured some fellow losties could appreciate it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z_zVROAdLU
carry on the good theorizing work! i shall be reading!
The intercom words were:
...under control. Yeah?
You know what he's doing to Karl? You know what he's doing?
It was a mistake bringing those 2 here...
This is according to the closed captioning on my TV.
rachel....
Thxs. I saw the CC earlier today also. CC has been notoriously wrong in the past. I pay attention to the whispers experts over the fuselage. These dudes have some serious audio equipment and do a great job analyzing it.
They have not updated it with this audio as if yet, but I am anxiuos.
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=55358
Hey everybody! Loved the episode, I for one am enjoying this season- maybe not as much as season 1, but I think more than season 2. Anyway...
I haven't been able to read many comments yet, so don't know if I'm repeating things here. I agree with a lot of Fenris' observations (including B.B., so who's Daffy?)
Here are some things I am wondering/observing-
re Kate: I agree with Fenris, she used to be scrappy and independent, now she appears like the helpless female that we so often see in movies. If she can fight off the marshall like she did, why wasn't she more help when Sawyer started the fight a couple of weeks ago? How did Juliet get a hold on her so quick? etc. And...wasn't it a bit odd that she so easily crawled out of her cage? I mean it's one thing to notice that you can squeeze through the bars, but she didn't even break a sweat and got out of that cage in about 20 sec.- seemed a bit ridiculous to me.
Second, I thought it was interesting that Juliet is a fertility doctor. What do they need with a fertility doctor? I know I harped on this with TLE, but could there be more to the parthenogenesis clue? Could she be working on some kind of freaky DI human reproduction experiment?
Last (well that I will mention right now)- could the 40 year old man with a spinal tumor be Locke? Could this be the reason he was paralyzed- a growing tumor pressing on the spinal cord? And then the island's magnetic powers or the crash somehow moved/changed the tumor and the pressure was taken off and Locke could walk? Maybe this is why Henry/Ben came to get Locke (last season). They could've gotten his xrays the same way they supposedly got all Jack's personal info. But of course what does this mean? Is it coincidence that Locke and Jack would both be on flt 815? etc. oh well, just my random thinking. Will try to read up before I comment any more, wouldn't want to beat any dead horses.
Hey Y'all,
So the Hydra Station's on an island.
Expected same :)
Dig Y'all Later
Hi TLC!
Just skimmed through the comments so apologies if I've missed someone saying exactly the same...
I think it was Capcom that said maybe they have a submarine... Did Ben not say to Juliet that the sub was back??!
amused2bhere and dark angel: thanks for the clarification on the islands.
Hi Guys,
It's very quiet here today. Inenglandandlost I think it is the general consensus here and on the other forums that the others have a sub. This is how they got to Desmond's boat undetected and how Ethan Rom crept ashore to kill Scott (or was it Steve :P).
I imagine it is a small scientific research sub not a military type submarine. Thinking about it wasn't there someone on TLEC that used to crew submarines or did I just imagine that?
bored with all the reruns last night so rewatched the episode. noticed in background of final scenes when sawyer is being shown the island view that there was one of those speaker that was making the noise when Jack was being walked by K/S. dont know if it means anything. also it seemed like Jack heard k/s calling his name and slowed down to look in their direction.
Must admit I haven't seen the episode yet, I was still downloading it when I left for work this morning. I tend to have to read the transcript and look at all the screen caps so I can comment here as it's usually a few days before I get to see each episode!
I'm with you Capcom... I'd swim for it.
memphish said... So now that we know there are 2 islands, when Ben says he'll take Jack "home," does he mean Island #1?
When Ben say "home" he is referring to the world series on the TV:
BEN: That's home, Jack. Right there, on the other side of that glass. And if you listen to me -- if you trust me -- if you do what I tell you when the time comes -- I'll take you there. I will take you home.
memphish said... And finally, TPTB seemed to tell us on the Official Lost Podcast that Karl was an Other, but he doesn't know he's on a different island from the one Sawyer came from?
I guess they put a bag over his head just like they did with J,K & S.
Vic said... haha Dennis, I carved the same "exact" pumpkin design [pearl station]..Well it seems like Dennis and I are the only cool ppl..haha jk jk..Good job on the pumpkin by the way..
Great minds think alike! Thanks.
Fenris said... 5) Kate is showing some bottle and initiative again. About time! Still, she doesn't seem to have the fugitive fight in her anymore.
You English and your crazy slang :) Never heard that expression before - had to look it up:
Bottle
1. Whether you have the nerve to take on something. - "Don't bottle it now you big bottler."
2. Guts or determination - "You don't have the bottle for this"
A couple podcasts I have listened to had comments such as 'The others look so bad right now that I can never imagine thinking of them as good guys' and I have to agree. They have done such horrible things so far... really... they believe they are 'good guys' I cannot wait to see them prove that.
vic and Dennis - great idea with the pumpkins...
Hmmm... Must find Hydra logo.
CattyGirl said... vic and Dennis - great idea with the pumpkins...
Hmmm... Must find Hydra logo.
LOL. I actually printed out the Hydra Logo from Lostpedia and taped it to the pumpkin to mark the outlines.
The octagon took a long time to carve, so I gave up on the Hydra logo and just went with the Pearl.
Dennis said
You English and your crazy slang :)
:) - Well we have to keep you guys on your toes.
At least no one hear has started posting in Welsh (Cymraeg ydy 'n sylweddol 'n anawdd at ddeall) or Scots (ye ken fit am sayin' pal) and anything Desmond say doesn't count, no one in Scotland says 'Brotha' like Desmond!
I can't believe it I corrected my post and still misspelt 'here' - Oh well it's the weekend in one hour :)
Good morning... I thought it was interesting that "Of Mice and Men" was a part of the story since last summer "Steinbeck" was a password to the Retrivers of Truth site.
Good call Joann I completely missed that connection.
To all the UK peeps: it is so great having you here on this blog, I can't believe all the participation that you do here before you even get to watch the show in full!
BTW, DA, can you spell out those Welsh and Scot phrases phonetically and translate them, so we know how to say them? Just kiddin', But it is fascinating. And thanks for looking "Bottle" up for us Dennis. :-)
Too bad we can't have a Lost pumpkin contest! The Hanso logo might be easier to carve out.
Bigdog, I too noticed those speakers on the top of the hill on second viewing. Interesting, to think of what their purpose might be. I'm also getting more than a little perplexed and purturbed by all these cheesy naked Kate shots this season. It takes away from her character's original aura of strength and moxie in the eyes of the viewers. I don't get it.
I agree Fenris, Hurley's expressions are priceless He can say more with an open-mouthed stare than most actors can with a five minute monologue! :-D
No time for love, Dr. Jones - but I wanted to toss out my favorite line of the episode, since no one has mentioned it yet:
"I'm actually quite handy. We were building a church before Eko exploded."
I agree that Hurley has the market cornered on great looks, but Charlie's catching up in the great lines department!
And on that, I'm out. Have a good weekend, everyone!
- Lossa
Melissa, vewwy funny Dr. Jones! :-) I agree about Charlie's lines lately, I especially liked the one about how Locke would have to start punching himself in the face if he was taking drugs. LMAO at that one! Altough Charlie has got to start keeping a check on the jealousy thing, it's getting very annoying.
Thanks Perdido for the info on the speakers. The alarms on the island could definitely be used for that, considering the virus/quarantine risks and all. Perhaps also for those supply drop announcements as well, as we saw in the Swan. It also makes me think of Radar O'Reilly type announcements like in MASH, "kkkkkkkkk...uh, Ben do you want frilly toothpicks in your grilled cheese sandwich too when you get back?.....kkkkkkkkkk"
Could the speakers be everywhere, and be the reason we here whispering in the jungle every now and again?
isibell: that's a good point about the speakers/whispers connection. Can't recall off the top of my head some of the whispers were and if they could have been said by the Others.
My favorite line: Sawyer to Ben "What do I have to do, talk about your mother?"
First LOL @ Dennis. :) Glad you looked it up rather then just going "Eh?". That slang is used quite a lot over here but really I have no idea where it origionated. But I think all slang is crazy really, it's just if your used to it or not and I don't think people realy notice how much slang they use in day to day situations. I noticed my own slang use when I started chatting to people that don't have English as their first language. It's quite strange trying to explain how things can go "pear shaped" and stuff like that. Lol. Still at least we don't call good things "the s**t".
Scoutpost - The fertility thing is interesting. It's not a suprise, not with the interest in Claires baby and the references in the ARG but all that stuff just goes to show that it is obviously important whatever is going on there. That's a good idea about Locke as well. Although that raises all kinds of questions. But it does fit if Locke is being "told by the island" to go and rescue them (or at least head to the Others camp). Maybe the answer to how he'll get there is simple - he'll get picked up.
Capcom - Thanks. :) I'm a self confessed downloader so only run a day out. However the good news for the UK peeps is that Sky One has bought the rights for Lost. Now while that means it won't be on normal terrestial TV, it is on a very easy to get cable/satalite channel and Sky has a fantastic record for keeping episodes up to date with the American releases. Infact some US Series' have been known to air on Sky One *before* they air in the US (Battlestar Galactica comes to mind, but there were a few others as well). Not that I'm praising Sky One, in general their record for their own shows is worse then C4. However they have always been the best channel for US shows (and not just stuff from Fox). Apparently S3 will show in November. Which puts it a month out of date with the US, but then with the next (ARRRRRGH!) 3 month gap to come up soon they will probably slip more in sync later. (Note to self: See if TOG's blog is still up so I can go and laugh on the C4 message board like a total troll)
Perdido - Good info. I just assumed the sirens were to stop Jack from hearing Kate and Sawyer calling out to him. I suspect mostly to not let him know that he is being isolated while they are being kept together.
Melissa - Yes I agree about Charlies line. He is becomming less likable personality wise (seems a bit snappy, but I suppose he's still on withdrawl and maybe from the vaccine as well as the heroin) but he is getting better lines at least!
Anyway I thought of some more things - These others are a strange bunch and I am very much thinking they had to develope from the DI scientists. They act like scientists gone bad. Performing cruel and violent acts, but holding some kind of morale stand point. They don't actually kill themselves (that we know of anyway) but don't care if their actions lead to peoples deaths and everything they do they feel can be justitified for the "greater good". They treat everything like an experiment. Though I can't see any genuine moral justification for them acting like they do. They show no compassion to anyone outside of their own ranks and then get all emotional when something happens to one of them whilst they are messing with other people. I mean of course they'd be upset that their friends die, but if I was friends with bank robbers and one of them was shot while doing an armed robbery I wouldn't act with quite as much shock or have so much hate against the security gaurd that was probably only defending himself. The way they act it's like they never expected that going and forcably stealing a boat off of armed people would have any risk to it. In a way they seem a bit...simple. Or perhaps they are just so unbelievably arogent and that is why they never expected the Losties to actually fight back.
I'm also thinking that whatever Walt had in him that made him "special" is also in Desmond and was only awoken by being at the centre of whatever happened with the hatch.
Actually, I'm still wondering if the Swan station imploded why did the actual outside hatch fly up into the air?
Fenris - I believe the reason for the door flying to the beach was discussed, but I don't remember. I thought about this for a wile, and I believe I came to the same conclusion as those that previously discussed it. When the hatch was destroyed it imploded. (This as apposed to exploding, which probably wouldn't have sent the door quite as far.) The force of the hatch being sucked in pushed the air that was inside out, like a balloon deflating. The force of the air flowing out of the hatch through what was probably the only open door (the main hatch door probably being closed, and air tight) was enough to expel not only Lock, Echo, and Des but also to throw the door up into the air toward the beach.
Of corse this scientific explination is brought to you by an artist...so I could be way wrong.
Fenris said... First LOL @ Dennis. :) Glad you looked it up rather then just going "Eh?".... It's quite strange trying to explain how things can go "pear shaped" and stuff like that.
My wife and I used to watch a lot of BBC America - Changing Rooms, Ground Force, and Coupling. So we're familiar with pear shaped :) Lately, we've been watching Footballer's Wives, so I've picked up a bit of slang from that too.
My thoughts exactly about the Others Fenris. Their "enemies" actually fight back for their lives, shock-a-roo! Funny what you said about TOG. Let us know if Sky gets a good Lost page on their website. They are coming in a bit behind, but if they're smart they'll set one up to get new Lost customers involved with their channel.
I like the idea that Des has acquired some powers too and am looking forward to seeing how that develops and how he can be of use to "our team" as Sawyer put it. And that hopefully the Others don't know about them yet. Although, do we know how they knew that Walt was a "special boy"? I never could figure that out. Certainly Ethan or Goodwin couldn't have figured that out during the short time they spent with the Fusies and Tailies respectively.
Someone a few posts ago explained why atmosphere/objects would be pushed out by an collapsing implosion, I think that it was Engineer27.
capcom said... Too bad we can't have a Lost pumpkin contest! The Hanso logo might be easier to carve out.
Why can't we???
Hey diggitydirge
I know that cc is sometime incorrect, but let's assume this time it may be right. Who do you think the two might be? I first thought it was Kate and Sawyer cause they really only want Jack. But then I got to thinking maybe they mean Alex and Karl.
Great comments one and all!
Re: Karl the Other. If what the closed captioning said is true, then perhaps the kids are being kept at a camp on Lostie Island, with Miss Klugh, and Karl and Alex were brought to Falcatraz without their knowledge. That would be why the whispers said "You know what he's doing to Karl? You know what he's doing? It was a mistake bringing those 2 here..." They are talking about Karl and Alex.
Perhaps they thought that Karl and Alex were now "old enough" to progress to more adult responsibilities, begin their training into the "research" group. Makes me think of the older children in "The Village" who were now being introduced to the adult "secrets". I bet the kids on Lostie Island are kept in the dark about a bunch of stuff (for their own protection?)
Pumpkin contest! What a great idea! Should we all just use the picture of our best effort for an avatar?
We don't have to vote or have prizes. Just lots of mutual appreciation for our common illness: LOST Addiction
And a love for Halloween Amused! Don't forget that. ;)
With us getting to see and learn more about the Others, I'm wondering if we'll find out what happened to the tailies that were taken in S2?
nah, I don't celebrate Halloween. But I do love harvest time, Autumn is a beautiful time of year. and I love to carve pumpkins ("Is that...art?")
Yes it's art. Have you seen some of the things people carve into pumpkins?!?
Why no Halloween? Come on...you have to love a holiday where you're allowed to pretend to be someone else and beg for candy.
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