Locke's motives become clear.
Yes, that's all we get. Call him Flocke, call him the Locke Monster - apparently tonight he's laying all his cards on the table.
There aren't even any promotional photos, so I'm cross-promoting the Live event happening next Thursday. Click on the image to check it out - everybody got your tickets? If not, here's the skinny:
New York Times entertainment editor Lorne Manly will have an in-depth conversation with executive producer Carlton Cuse and co-creator/executive producer Damon Lindelof on the challenges of crafting a finale that satisfies themselves as storytellers, and the show’s legion of fans. They will be accepting questions from the fans ahead of time - again, click the image to find out how to submit yours!
Tuesday, May 11, 2010
Across the Sea - Season 6, Episode 14
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 361 of 361The next step in the One's plan was that the Two would become the Many, through their dialetic interaction. From them as hyperuniverses they projected a hologram-like interface, which is the pluriform universe we creatures inhabit. The two sources were to intermingle equally in maintaining our universe, but Form II continued to languish toward illness, madness and disorder. These aspects she projected into our universe.
It was the One's purpose for our hologramatic universe to serve as a teaching instrument by which a variety of new lives advanced until ultimately they would be isomorphic with the One. However, the decaying condition of hyperuniverse II introduced malfactors which damaged our hologramatic universe. This is the origin of entropy, undeserved suffering, chaos and death, as well as the Empire, the Black Iron Prison; in essence, the aborting of the proper health and growth of the life forms within the hologramatic universe. Also, the teaching function was grossly impaired, since only the signal from the hyperuniverse I was information-rich; that form II had become noise.
The great secret known to Apollonius of Tyana, Paul of Tarsus, Simon Magus, Asklepios, Paracelsus, Boehme and Bruno is that: we are moving backward in time. The universe in fact is contracting into a unitary entity which is completing itself. Decay and disorder are seen by us in reverse, as increasing. These healers learned to move forward in time, which is retrograde to us
this is all philip k dick. Interesting he had his first valis visions in 1974
the roman empire has never ended, latin anyone?
read this !!!!!
http://www.tekgnostics.com/PDK.HTM
I don't know about "white holes"- but seems to me science is getting kicked in the teeth here.
On the show Merlin they are always whipping up potions for this & that magical effect. Don't see much difference between that and Pseudo Mom muttering over the wine for Jacob.
i strongly think the smoke is from the future and the light is a white hole spitting out stuff in the past form the future
3 posts eaten by Blogger now. This is version 3 at least. I copied it.
Suffice it to say that my failure to post anything here for over 12 hours after the episode aired sums up my position with the episode and worse with this entire season.
I have little hope that the next 3 1/2 hours will be emotionally satisfying, and no hope that those hours will bother to maintain any sort of logical consistency.
janney obviously was grooming mib to be the smoke his whole life and to kill her, that's why she gave him the knife in the backgammon game. She also used a special person to enlighten jacob, in that mib taught him about one white one black and all that. Just like jacob can't tell jack what to do, but he uses hurley as a loophole to that. It seems like special people can become smokey and not jacob.
As to natives on the island-hmm-looks like there was still a larger group that built the Egyption stuff before Mother. Why she would be the last of them- still holding the bag of protecting the island- I don't know.
But with MIB & Jacob it looks like they are dividing people into the protectors (Jacob's that he brings, recruits) and those MIB may be helping to tap the energy and get him off the island. Prime example is Richard, who Jacob brought but MIB tried to recruit.
memphis i think science will still make a comeback. I think that the smoke is from the end of times and mib knows the future because the smoke came form the future ala the white hole. Perhaps in 2004 or 2007 they trap the smoke, and its a loop, jacob throwing mib in the light freed the smoke from the future. It's obvious that mib now trys to prove the step mom right because he gained knowledge of human nature in the light.
I much prefer the characters to the science 2Costa. That was of course one of the giant problems with this episode. If it had aired at hour 3 of the season, not after we just killed 3 favorite characters, I think I would have liked this episode better.
The fact that it ended by treating me the viewer as a dementia patient by completely re-airing the S1 scene of Adam and Eve just leaves me disgusted.
The thing that killed Heroes for me in S2 was its creators failing to adhere to the logic that they themselves created. I feel like the LOST creators have fallen off that same cliff this season. For the most part the "answers" fail to add up with the mysteries they themselves created. That annoys me.
But enough negativity. Just my 2 cents. I'll probably check back out until next Tues/Wed. That's unfortunately the kind of season it has been for me.
@memphish, I largely agree with you. The S1 flashback was horrendous.
we also need to see if jacob uses the donkey wheel or what to get off the island. Just as janney let the hunters build the donkey wheel, she could have dusted them at any time. Jacob let dharma build the orchid. He probably wanted greater control of the light. So i wonder how richard left the island and saw locke's birth.
Janney let mib make a free will choice in leaving for the hunters. She also let jacob choose. I dont think the wine is magic or the chant. I think jacob became the same as her when he vowed to help her protect the island. This is like eloise the rat and dan, once he stated his intention that future was created. He only stopped aging when he became the same as her. 30 years passed and she didn't age a day, but she was gorwing tired because the island is still doing the driving and had deemed her time over. I think that once someone is a candidate jacob or the mom cant kill them either, thats why she couldnt kill mib, plus she wanted him to kill her. She provoked him to kill her, much like jacob wanted ben to kill him or how ben made sayid work for him and ultimately want to kill him.
i wonder how janney fed those babys
@2costa, the same way Kate fed Aaron.
aaron was alittle bit older and she had dharma food available.
from the looks of locke's man boobs, he is the island wet nurse.
Memphis have faith in tptb, if it was obvious faith would be meaningless. I think they may bring it all back around. I share you frustrations. Next week we will see what the repercussions of the sub are.
i think they needed to slip in this episode to partly set the stage for why young jacob is roving around the island in 2004.
the adam eve flashback was horrible.
i think it's important that janney never told jacob to keep the smoke on the island, she tasked him with keeping the light from getting snuffed out. He is keeping mib there to spite him for killing mom.
i bet zoe and widmore are looking for the waterfall light cave
i think there will be a new face to the smoke by the end, either locke, widmore, or ben.
i can see widmore jumping into the light
i also think she used mib's special knowledge of stuff(like the rules of backgammon) to inform jacob as a loophole to the rules that she can't tell jacob what to do. Just like jacob uses hurley to enlighten jack. Special people are there to help the true candidates that aren't special.
jacob set up his rules for the others based on what his mom did. the leader of the others should pick the book of rules not the knife. jacob was a rule follower. Yet she gave the knife to mib. She groomed mib to kill her one day as jacob groomed ben to kill him.
everyone has to answer to someone, including jacob and his mom. The island decided janney's time was done thats why she was so tired.
I feel your pain Memphish.
While this episode made me very happy to see some backstory about Mulva and Jacob (great comment AL!) I'm still scratching my head over a lot of things in general. And I too felt that the FB in the cave was unnecessary. They could have left that work to the popups. I bet even a person who has never seen that first cave scene before didn't even know what the heck was going on with the FB. Why were Jack and Kate in the cave? Why were they ransacking two corpses? Weird.
Welcome back Fenris! :-)
We all clamored for some backstory on Jacob and MIB, and we got it. Sure, like fake Mother said: For each answer there are more questions! We know that Jacob and MIB were twins. Jacob is the surviving brother. We saw were Smokey came from. We got a solid answer on Adam and Eve. It was a bit more fantasy than science fiction, and I'm still confused, but Lost fans are never going to be completely satisfied.
I guess the FB was for those who vaguely remember Adam & Eve ,so they will connect. Useless for those who already know and those who have no clue.
2C- if it comes down to choices- then I vote the island as a place that, because of it's physical properties, allows consciousness to create reality. There. Now everyone can be prodded to make certain choices, but they have to do so themselves to make reality.
LOL, I don't feel that I saw where Smokey comes from yet...he comes from a watery hole in the ground with a golden light?...that tells me as much as Smokey coming from a sink in the ground that Ben pulls the plug out of to drain the water to summon Smokey. Heheh. Maybe I'm dense, or just brain dead at this point. :o)
Yeah, I'm confused about Smokey, too, because obviously Mother was Smokey before MiB was.
Sorry- why did anyone have to be Smokey before?
Another thought on MIb still existing in Smokey-it is in the form of Flocke when it talks about its life as MIB. It may be lying-but it doesn't talk about "being" Locke or Alex- and it does MIB.
To soften on the A&E FB- they know that we know- maybe that was just a fan appreciation replay-not trying to provide context.
@JT if Smokey did not exist before, I'd be very interested to see who killed Esau's people.
I'm thinking the reason Smokey can't leave now is that he is the container of the light. Once he went into the hole it was like the light became part of his being. We never saw the glowy opening again. This also fits in with Locke's first vision of Smokey as the beautiful light. The really bad thing that would happen if Smokey left the Island is that all life in the world would be extinguished assuming Momma Janney was telling the truth. Which, I know, is 50/50 at best.
If you haven't seen it yet, look for the Kimmel Connect Four Million ad. Sorry, too lazy to link myself.
Yes AL- I was trying to think of your reason and that occurred to me. So unless Mother is some kind of unkillable Ninja too--
Memphish- if it is true that Mother was Smokey then is seems that she would have absorbed the light already.
Maybe MIB is also "special" in the same way Desmond is, in that he's electromagnetic-pulse-proof.
Perhaps other people who went down the hole might not have turned into the smoke or had a different effect on them.
I don't think the Mother was Smokey.
@memphish, then who do you think killed all of the Others?
Here is the Jimmy Kimmel Connect 4 Million link. (Courtesy of Scoutpost)
Could Mother summon Smokey to kill Claudia's people? Like Ben did to get the mercenaries?
The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Smokey is NOT Esau, and Esau is truly dead. Why would Esau be impervious to bullets?
I think Mother killed them, just not as Smokey.
@memphish, she looked pretty weak. I don't think in that form she could have caused that kind of destruction.
I don't think it makes much difference, but I don't think Mother was a smoke monster because when she gave Jacob the wine she said that made him like her and he wasn't a smoke monster.
As I think about it more I think she might have been able to call the Smoke Monster like Ben did, as someone suggested earlier. After all she knew that something happened to you if you went into the cave, something worse than death which implies that she saw it happen to someone else. Do we also then conclude that Smokey actually killed MIB so that the person Jacob was battling all these years wasn't actually his brother, but the entity that killed his brother?
@memphish, yes, that's exactly what I think. And I think they've scripted Jacob to be gullible enough to believe Smokey was his brother.
Hey Fenris!
Long time no see. Glad you stopped by before this is all over. I agree I can't decide if MIB became Smokey after he went into the light or Smokey was released when MIB went into the light. Then it took on MIB's likeness.
JT
Brother said that someday Jacob could make up his own game and everyone one would have to follow his rules. So I guess protecting the light (apparently not the island it's self) is his game. New game new rules.
lol I posted and now I have 2 1/2 more hours of posts to read. Back to the top. :)
maybe like jacob, mother had other people working for her minding the temple and they kicked ass at the village. If jacob can't lie, at least not effectively and mib can lie, then what does it say about the mother that lied all the time. It seemed the mother respected mib's untameable nature, it makes me think special stubborn people like locke are destined to be the smoke. I can't see jack as the new jacob facing off against mib, i almost wonder if flocke has been speaking for locke as well like his crazy mom is swoozy kurtz.
I don't think we should be too harsh to judge the makers of Lost for spoon feeding us the link to Season One. It was after all a long time ago and while lost fans tend to pay more attention then fans of other shows the majority probably did need reminding. Several of the people I know in real life that watch Lost casually had forgotten about Adam and Eve (I reminded them about it earlier this season, long before I knew about this episode). I think most of if not all of us here have re-watched Season One (and probably the others) at least once, but many casual viewers haven't.
I also think it was an interesting story twist to remind us that the only person that has ever named MiB on the show with a real name is John Locke, calling him Adam.
For me it just makes me think that Adam is what we should be calling him as it is the closest we are likely to get to a real name.
Anyway there are definitely some unanswered questions from this episode. We don't know much more about the Island itself as Jacobs time was apparently far from the beginning of all this. Lost continues to be like a many layered Onion, once you reveal a new level you just realize there is another deeper one underneath.
Why did the mother expect them to care that whatever happened to the island would happen "everywhere" when she had already told them that the island was the only place there was?
“There was absolutely no master plan on Lost,” insists David Fury, a co-executive producer last season who wrote the series’ two best episodes and is now a writer-producer on 24. “Anybody who said that was lying.”
“On a show like Lost, it becomes a great big shaggy-dog story,” he continues cheerily. “They keep saying there’s meaning in everything, and I’m here to tell you no–a lot of things are just arbitrary. What I always tried to do was connect these random elements, to create the illusion that it was all adding up to something.”
Many plot elements were concocted on the fly, Fury says; for example, they didn’t know Hurley won the lottery until it came time to write his episode. “I don’t like to talk about when we come up with ideas,” Lindelof demurs. “It’s a magic trick. But we planned that plot. We seeded references to it in earlier episodes.” Fury disagrees. He says scenes with those references were filmed much later and inserted into earlier yet-to-air episodes: “It’s a brilliant trick to make us look smart. But doing that created a huge budget problem.”
who cares if they wrote it on the fly. Good writing is inserting ambiguous stuff early and explaining it later, its the wisdom to include enough mysterious stuff early, so you have something to explain later. The four toed statue for example, all it told me in season one was that there was an old civilization on the island. I'm sure thats all they wanted us to think, then they though of the answer years later, who cares. Carlton wasn't even brought on til jj had to make mi3. It's a serialized tv program not a novel. Even if it was an epid serialized novel like the story of the stone,don't you think that most authors write their story then something occurs to them later and they inject it earlier into the story or they get an idea then inject the foreshadowing into an earlier part of the novel before they publish it, cmon.
I don't care if they wrote it on the fly, but I do care if they lie about it.
I agree AL -- it's not the crime, it's the cover-up.
Also, I wish the magic glowy pond hadn't been yellow. That was an unfortunate choice.
lol- AL- yellow...
That is an unfortunately astute question about why the kids should care about saving the world though. First they hear there is no other place, then that the people from the other place are bad-so why care really about anyone but yourself?
Turns out it would convince Jacob though- as he thinks there may be good in the people out there.
I just had a thought. Could dead Mom Claudia been the smoke monster? It will come to you as someone you know. Someone dead.
@SG, that was my thought as well. Which might explain how Ben could summon Smokey, since Smokey came to him in the guise of his mother.
Amy Lynn
You're surpised they lied about their project?
I didn't have to listen to many podcasts to realize they were lyng to protect their project. They've been tap dancing around the truth for years.
Personally I couldn't care less. I don't expect the truth from someone who is trying to protect something they don't want anyone to figure out.
For me it goes back to what 2costa said it's their project they can write and protect it anyway they choose. It's not important to me. They're not my best friend. And it's just a tv show. One that I enjoy very much.
@SG, I'm surprised only because they didn't need to lie. Rather than saying "we had most of this planned from day one", they should have just said "trust us to write a story"
I wonder if Ben could really summon Smokey or just knows how to release it. He said he couldn't control it. They could have been victims as easily as Keamy and his crew if they did stay out of the way.
AL
You have a point. Unfortunatley some people see lying easier than telling the truth.
To add to that it doesn't surprise me. Also it could be Mr. Fury is a disgruntled employee who wants his 15 minitues of fame by calling out the producers of a popular tv show.
Either way it doesn't bother me. Because it doesn't effect my personal life.
@SG, I don't think he was disgruntled. The quote was from when he was still with the show.
AL
Ah. Ok, thanks.
I'm really curious if we're going to get an answer to why Kenton's (teen Jacob's) hair was dark the last time we saw him. I have a feeling it might have been because the actor had another gig that he needed to look the part for?
For the record I did like that we got answers to
a) why the purge happened to DI
b) why the Others took Walt and Aaron.
That's a very interesting quote Amy, thanks for posting it. I don't have a problem with the finer details of an artistic piece being honed as the piece grows either. It's like drawing a thumbnail sketch, or writing an outline, and then filling in the details as the body of the piece is worked out. And I also don't have a problem with a creator wanting to keep the inner workings of the piece a secret until it's time to be revealed, that's only fair. But I did kind of wince way back when, after TPTB said that there would be no scifi elements to Lost, and then there were...big ones. So after that I kind of figured that they were intent on saying whatever they had to, to throw us off track. Seeing someone admit to it, brings some understanding and honesty to the table, and somehow helps to justify some feelings that I've had about the style in which the show's story has been written. IMO. :->
Interesting points on the A&E-FB Fenris, ever the diplomatic gentleman. :-)
Could Mother have summoned Smokey to destroy Claudia's people's camp and the well (just like Ben did to get the mercenaries)?
i read something where they said they didn't even come up with jacob til the middle of season 2 and that they readily admit they wrote a lot of it as it went along, so i don't really know what you darlton detractors are referring to. They also said that george lucas was lying when he said he came up with the whole star wars arc and mythology when he was working on new hope. Season 2 is really where the mythology started anyway. Season one mysteries are, the numbers, smokey, the hatch, the foot, and the others. They have answered most of those questions to some extent. They have said they wont ever answer the nutz and bolts of smokey because it would be like the medachlorians of the force.
Do I have this right? On the night of the finale there will be a 2 hour clip show airing from 7-9 EDT/PDT (6-8 CDT) and then there will be 2 1/2 hours of LOST meaning that the local news will be pushed back by 30 minutes, and then at 12:05 EDT/PDT there's the Kimmel special? I guess it's good its down to only 10 million people to be unproductive the next day.
I don't read them as TPTB detractors 2C, it's just very interesting what Fury said about their creative process, which is pretty much business as usual for the average creative flow.
There is truth to the word that Lucas didn't have the whole SW series in mind from the beginning. When the first-first Star Wars movie came out I was buying all the popular Scifi magazines at the time. In many interviews Lucas stated that he basically had the material for the first two stories in his head when SW1 was made, and that he was going to work backward from there for backstory if he had the time to, after making one or two sequels. Obviously he found the time. :-)
memphish
Yep that's right.
I agree with 2Costa about it not mattering so much how it was written. The real life of the story is through the eyes of the beholders, i.e. us. We read into it extra meaning and it keeps us happy. If the writers are experiencing the story themselves as they write each section then in many ways it's more organic. More like life. I trust them to conclude it well, however they write it.
Hi Capcom and SG btw. :) I'm glad I made it back before it all finished!
Post-Across The Sea interview of Damon and Carlton by Alan Sepinwall. I didn't read word for word but I don't think there are spoilers.
I will also point out they are asked directly about the idea of MIB becoming Smokey also becoming the Light. :-)
After re-watch,I am loving the journey,but a little bit puzzled. On my thrill ride to the finale,I was expecting a smooth, petal to the metal dash to Lost eternity. Instead,I am finding detours, road construction crews,and potholes that still need filling.I want a great ending,and really hope that Darlton were able to pull it together as promised.
I am still a man of faith however,so I'll keep pushing that button; believing that everything happened for a reason.
@memphish, yes, you have the timing correct.
i liked when lucas pretended he always wanted jabba the hutt to be a huge worm, even though he just had a fat scot in some weird clothes in the role. That was complete bs, why dress the guy in costume if you always wanted to put animation over it. he didn't need cgi to have jabba in jedi so why would it be something else in new hope.
So if going into the light is "rebirth" (and?/or? worse than dying)... and Alpert is living forever... Did Richard go into the light? We've assumed it was done through Jacob's "touch" some postulate the 'wine"--- but could RA have headed into that cave? And, referring to mom too... is living forever the fate worse than dying? ( For the record,I think the person drinking the wine has to drink it knowingly... i doubt they can be tricked into it. Have no evidence to support that, but....hoping it is so.)
JT- I like your hubby's catch on who makes the rules when its "his" game... wonder who's game it is now? or does it continue to be moms? But her rules don't seem to apply- Jacob killed MIB...and she said they couldn't hurt each other?
I'm going to be a dissenting opinion, I liked how they did the Adam and Eve reveal. Even if I was spoon fed, I thought it was creative, and it was the only glimpse of our original characters in the epi.
Chris... I thought Easu was the first born, and Jacob tricked him into giving his birthright away. The MiB/Jacob is reversed in LOST... still fits in the same tone of the two bros... but if I remember correctly, its reversed? Now, there is a beautiful forgiving reunion at the end of that Bible story...both brothers ended up doing well AND coming home to a good land.
BlackSwan- interesting thought about burying the skeletons.. there was so much emphasis on burials...and what's buried doesn't stay dead... maybe you are onto something? (usable bodies?)
OB- great catch on the purge, part 2 to protect the light.... wow!
AL- I see what we've learned about the purge, but help me with the reason the Others took Walt and Aaron?
I was thinking about the overall timeline of the island as we have learned now that Jacob seems to have been there since Roman times- some 2000 years. So does that maybe mean that Mother could have been there for 2000 years also? Perhaps she was recruited back in the Egyptian age- and was it the mother that she mentioned that she replaced back then? Wonder how that came about-seems like it must have involved a stabbing- with "the knife?" It seems the Egyptians were good metalworkers.
Perhaps there were remnants of the "Others" from those times somewhere on the island. Although it does seem that the boys might have caught wind of them at some point.
2C- good idea about the knife being in the senet box- she did seem to be preparing to die. She talks about it not being time yet when boy in black wants to leave -so she seems to want the boys to grow up first so one can take over.
And- did anyone else think Jacob's first flimsy tapestry effort was kind of funny- but touching too since we knew it was the start of his long journey to the final product?
I have a seeing dead people question too-could everyone always see Smokey in different forms that we know of? I mean- could one person ever see Smokey and one not?
Wondering if that would be a test as to whether Claudia was Smokey or just dead- with Brother seeing her and Jacob not. If everyone always sees Smokey- then she would be just dead.
@tol, my thought was that they were looking for an "innocent" to replace Jacob
i think jacob is different than mib because he lived closer to the light than mib. I bet you start to have weird EM side effects when you live close to the light. I definitely look at the light as a powerful em field.
i thought the jacob and mib story reminded me of the prodigal son in the way that jacob was the good son that stayed home and always did the right thing, but she loved mib the prodigal son more. She also would have welcomed him back with open arms until the end.
2C - I'm also thinking that the light was a major EM field.
I think Desmond's "job" that Widmore wants him to perform is to capture that energy that is roaming around the island as smokey. I don't know yet whether Widmore intends to put MIB back in the cave or if he intends to exploit the energy of it as Ben always said he would do.
i wonder if smokey literally uses the metal people have on them or some em energy to grab, drag, and crush people. I also wonder if his powers work on desmond.
desmond to flocke" why should i be afraid ?"
Mother almost spoke about how bad your fate was if you went into the light, it was almost as if she had experienced it first hand.
What if Mother had the abilities of both Jacob and Esau, and was able to divide them amongst the twins? Jacob got to be the protector, and Esau the one who was destined to die? (Similar to how Eloise led Daniel to his own death, at her hand)
I have a feeling that Widmore wants to use Desmond's special status to enter into the golden light. Either he wants to harness it or destroy it.
I have to say that my initial response was not more questions.
However on reflection I think they are probably just the same questions posed in a slightly different way.
Did having this episode move us much further ? Not at the moment, but it could make sense later on. (Not that there is much later to go around)
The episode felt out of place and slightly shoehorned in and the flashback to the first season was completely unneccessary, it could have been handled just as well with a "Previously on LOST" before the episode started without loosing too much impact.
I need some closure when this is all over, and I'm beginning to think I'm not going to get much.
This was a very dysfunctional family. But they all loved each other. MIB accepted Mother’s hug when she said “goodbye” And when he killed her she said she wouldn’t let him leave because she loved him.
Jacob loved his Mother and I think she loved him too. Jacob and MIB also loved each other up to the end MIB asked Jacob to come with him when he thought he’d found a way off the island.
Jacob was angry when he threw MIB down the tunnel of light, but I don’t think he was expecting or prepared for what happened to MIB. I don’t think he thought MIB would in all intents and purposes die.
He was very heart broken when he laid them to rest. There’s even an line in House of the Rising Sun where Jack says, Someone laid them to rest here. I felt including that clip at the end made that scene with Jacob even more poignant. JMO
If you haven't listened to Geronimo Jack's Beard yet, it's worth a listen. Jorge and Beth are as frustrated with the show as most of us LOL!
jacob's moms dying proclamation that his name was jacob, was very similar to ben's birth.
i think a scene we needed to see but didn't was jacob discovering that the smoke contained mib and could take his form.
although the smoke seems to have mib as the dominant personality, it is every bit as much really locke inside there too.
i wonder if the smoke had managed to take locke underground in season one is he would have become a separate smoke monster or just part of the smoke collective.
Great to have you here again Fenris. Yes, I don't care about the mechanics of their creative process either. But it is interesting to read behind-the-scenes anecdotes like what Amy posted. Things like that are what I hope might be in a "The Making Of Lost" book released next year, heheh. :-D
Tx for the Sepinwall link Memphish.
Too funny about Jabba, 2C. :-)
Tx for the GJB info Amy.
Here's a link to an LA Times story about tonight's Lost Live event at UCLA! So excited to be there.
I don't know if I'm supposed to comment here now or in the new post, so I'll do it here.
After reading the snarky interview Darlton gave about six times, I can understand where they are coming from as writers. However, I think it's really unfair to blame the audience. The fans were the ones who kept this show on the air. If the reaction is 75% negative to a particular episode, like it seems this one was (at least by reading The Fuselage and Lostpedia, which is what Darlton reads), there's clearly a disconnect
I agree AL. As writers they can write what they want, but as a viewer I have the right to find it neither entertaining nor satisfactory in terms of character, narrative or mythology.
In Alan Sepinwall and Daniel Fineberg's podcast, Fineberg compared MIB's frustration with Mother, her lies and lack of answers to us the audience. At least for me the audience I find this an apt analogy.
@memphish, did you read Ken Tucker's review of the episode on EW? It's REALLY bad when your #1 fan magazine starts with the headline "last night's episode was a stinker"
was the light grotto simuliar to the grotto that jack and richard swam in last season to get in the tunnels?
if hurley is the only one that can see ghosts was that smokey taking the form of claudia talking to young mib. To manipulate him down the path to eventually join the smoke.
i also thought that perhaps the really smart guys in the hunters that devised the donkey wheel, might be sleepers or plants from the future who infiltrated the hunters like ethan did to the 815'ers. They were obviously trusting about others from around the island, they seemed to let jacob visit mib without a problem. that leads me to believe the mib never told them that jacob's mom killed claudia. I think people can have baies on the island at this time, just janney is barren. the roman's were there like 20-30 years and they had little kids when jacob visited mib.
@2costa, I thought it was the same grotto.
i also think that the smart people of the hunters may have been smokey recruits and if smokey is from the source, he has knowledge of advanced science, so he could have manipulated the hunters to build the wheel in the same way he took over the minds of the french team.
so if it's the same grotto the light has faded or is within smokey?
Well, the light went out as soon as Smokey came out of it, no? I might have to re-watch that part.
even if part of the light is in smokey some is still in the core of the island, we saw it when ben and locke turned the donkey wheeel
That was the one thing I rewatched. When the smoke emerges there doesn't appear to be any light in the hole (that's awkward to type), but once the smoke has emerged they never show the grotto again to see if there's light or no light.
As for recaps, this season hasn't interested me enough to read them, especially the so long you need Cliff's Notes ones Doc Jensen has been posting this year. I tend to scan Mo Ryan and Alan Sepinwall's stuff, but then it's just up to podcasts and boards like this.
i think it's important that mom never said to not let mib or smokey to leave the island, she told jacob to protect the light and the island. So i guess it could be interpreted as the light is part of smokey and letting him leave would lead to man exploiting the light and leading to the light being snuffed out. So if that is true i think jacob sort of misconstrued what the island was and his purpose to ricardo. It seems that mom already saw the end and it was man using the light then causing it to be snuffed out. Maybe this is like man harnessing the atom and thus destroying the world. I think jacob lied to ricardo about smokey and the island being hell or the cork, in order to make sure richard was properly motivated to keep smokey there.
It still seems possible that widmore is trying to exploit the island and thus would lead to the light going out.
I think that Mother is at best an unreliable narrator. She told MiB and Jacob that she made it so they couldn't harm one another, and then we see Jacob beating the snot out of his brother several times, before finally doing enough harm to turn him into whatever he became/Smokey/dead.
for some reason it seems like mother wanted mib to yearn to go across the sea
@2costa, classic Smoke Monster behavior. =)
Just saying that Tuesday's episode is gonna be fantastic. Darlton implored us not to spoil it for the rest of you, so my lips are sealed for 5 days!!!
@maven, that's good to hear. I know they are having a rough week with all the feedback from ATS.
When will I ever learn?
Do not Google "LOST Live and the title of Tuesday's episode. A ton of people have laid out what they saw last night, scene by scene.
I stopped after awhile. *zippered lips*
Please...resist all spoilers! Seeing this episode spoiler free will be well worth it!
Totally agree with Scoutpost....stay totally spoiler-free for this episode! There are plenty of WOW moments!
So, wait--- you guys have already seen Tuesday's episode? Man.... perhaps I'll stay gone till Tuesday.
Glad to hear however, that it was well received.
Yes, TOL, we were very surprised to hear we were seeing Tuesday's episode! (no commercials...lol) There are spoilers out there, so be extra careful. My lips are sealed...
Has anyone else gotten a backorder notice from GoMerch on their order today? I haven't even seen anyone say that they've bought the skull shirt yet. Ugh, shades of over-selling again. :-(
I'd really like to give the skull Tee to my brother for his B-day, it's perfect for him. And, I haven't thought up anything else to give him yet. :-o
Capcom- Milo says maybe they printed a certain # of each size, and now will fill in up to the run amount with the sizes needed. Not necessarily an oversell.
Thanks to all who went to Lost Live or are spoiled for not saying ANYTHING. (Does that leave anyone still to discuss the show? lol)
Thanks JT! Actually, I just got a note saying that my purchase has just been shipped. Go figure. :o)
Okay, this was unclear when I checked on ABC so I'll ask here. Is there a new episode Tuesday and then another new one on Sunday the 23rd. Or is the one on the 23rd the only one left?
Not that I'm not about 3 behind anyway with no forseeable time to catch up. . .but I'm curious.
Wow...well, I second the thanks for not putting any info here! But, it does sound hopeful. This was another Ab Aterno kind of epi for me.... will look forward to a good one.
There is an episode on Tuesday Lost2010.
Thanks Memphish
i didn't think of this until the podcast but the tortoise on the beach ties nicely to the rabbits we have seen over the years on lost. i know a rabbit isn't a hare but there's nothing else to talk about.
I just heard that Happy Town and Flash Forward have been canceled! I hope this is just a bad rumor and not true. They didn't even give Happy Town a fighting chance. Sheesh!
I had a kind of sad thought today- was at a memorial service and it made me think of Jacob putting his Mom & Brother to rest- and how as far as he knew, he was absolutely alone on that island. Actually- he didn't know another soul in the whole world. How would that feel? I can see how he would want company.
i had this thought that what if part of the rules on the island for succession to the smoke monster or jacob's job are that everyone except two candidates have to be killed. Perhaps smokey can not be killed until there are only 2 candidates left. This would go with the mother as smokey theory. She waited until the right time and then killed everyone on the island that wasn't a candidate. The the last two candidates are able to kill mother or mib in this case. The reason for 2 candidates is one to take over the jacob job and the other to be the new face of smokey. The catch is that mib can't be harmed until there are only two left. It seems like just as jacob, the new jacob will get a blank slate with the island having nobody but him and smokey. Maybe the freedom that mib wants is to be killed.
i strongly think that part of the rules is the "jacob" gets an island with nobody on it, besides smokey and has to figure out how to bring people there and start fresh. He will also start the game over and pick 360 candidates.
Lostit
Yes Flashforward has been canceled. Have heard rumors that Happy Town has been canceled too. I seen petition on twitter to save Happy Town.
i wish happy town or whatever was on basic cable those shows get a much longer shot and have a lower ratings threshold for success. Burn notice would have been canceled after 2 episodes on a network. I was starting to like mercy a little bit, what kind of world does hawthorne get a second season but mercy doesn't.
Happy Town is "on hiatus" (pulled until a later date...if that ever comes)!!
Here are my photos from Lost Weekend that I posted on Facebook. Everyone was super nice and friendly.
There's a new Happytown-ish series starting up on SciFi channel, oops I mean SeeFee channel, this summer. I forget what it's called.
Maven.... do you ever NOT do anything fun? ;-)
Thanks for sharing your pics!
Granted, I haven't actually watched. But according to the person who told me the episode, the crazy mother (sorry her terms not mine) told Jacob and Esau (again her terms) that she would make one of them into a being like her that lived for a long long time.
So, did Jacob already make Richard into one of those? Or did she just tell me wrong. . .and yes, I should just watch the darn thing but then I get to thinking I should watch the one before that first and I can't get up the heart to watch that one so they both remain unwatched.
Lost2010, you should watch it and immediately listen to The Transmission where they take the concepts introduced and abysmally executed in the episode and discuss them in a more palatable manner.
But the basic answer to your question is no, Jacob did not turn Richard into the same thing he is or Mother was.
@memphish, supposedly, this Tuesday's episode will explain, if not redeem last week's.
Lost2010, you could also just read Ack Attack's hilarious recap and be done with it. Jacob = Jan Brady. I love it.
Haha, you're right Memphish, even though I liked the ep (except for the stupid insulting questiony script), the Ack Attack improves it a great deal. X-D
Lost2010, it's pretty much a stand-alone ep that doesn't have anything to do with what happened the week before, or the week before that, IMO. So you could watch it without seeing the others first I think.
lost2010
Here's my take on it. It's a Jacob and MIB backstory. Mother tells both boys that one of them will have to take her place one as protector. When she tells Jacobit will be him she says a chat over a cup of wine and has him drink it and tells him now you are like me.
I liked the idea I heard on The Transmission that since it was twins Mother essentially split her role between the two boys. So Jacob got what the wine gives you and MIB got what going into the light gives you. I know this contradicts my earlier statement I didn't think Mother was a smoke monster. I now think she probably was.
I also liked the ideas I heard on The Transmission about the "solution" being throwing Smokey back into the hole and/or throwing Desmond into the light. I'm not sure how all that jives with the fact that people have turned the light connected donkey wheel or why MIB himself doesn't just turn the donkey wheel, especially now with Jacob gone. I think looking too hard at "the rules" will lead to eye rolling and groaning in the end, so I'm going to try not to do that.
Interesting that Damon and Carlton said on the OLP that Across the Sea will be one of the episodes on the DVD/Blu Ray with commentary track.
Ack Attack. . .I am so far out of the lost loop lately. . .I'd forgotten all about Ack Attack.
(It's possible that this is sort of like how you detach yourself from someone with a terminal illness to try and lessen the pain of losing them- I know Lost will be gone soon so I'm trying to let go now and beat the rush.)
Happy last LOST Tuesday!
Happy Lost Day!!
Happy Lost Day!- Let's put out quarter in the machine one more time and see if we get a winning ep!
LOL I think I'm one of the very few that didn't have a problem with last week's show. :)
OT
I was thinking about going back to Fringe. Has it gotten any less gory and gooey or is it about the same?
Go back to Fringe Sayid's Girl. It's been really good this season. I think it finally got on track towards the end of season 1. I had some issues with the premier this season, but they evaporated pretty quickly. And for the last 6 or more episodes it has been on fire. I can't wait for Thursday's finale.
SG-I don't have negative feelings on Across the Sea- as the Bee-tles say- Let it be, Let it be! There will be an answer....
@JT, tonight will be much better. I am sure of this.
@AL- Huzzah!
Happy Last LOST Tuesday Day! Boo-hoo! Having seen this episode last Thursday, you all are in for a fantastic episode. And the best part is I get to "participate" in the east coaster's reactions for the first, last and only time!
You all will not be disappointed tonight! :)
I'm going into tonight with stupidly low expectations. I know the cast list, and THAT sounds good, but other than that, anything would be better than last week ;)
Happy Lost Day.
Happy lost day.
Just saw across the sea last night and read the comments. nothing new to add. didnt love it or hate it. agreed with most that flashing back to season 1 to remind us who adam and eve were was cheap. and i think i would have rather not know than find out its MIB and his stepmom. i thought it was cool watching seeing smokey come out of the cave like that. i wondered though why would MIB never fight back when jacob was kicking his butt.
i didnt take notes as i was reading the prior post but why was it that jacob could not see his mom and MIB did? and was that smokey?
Sayids girl - i think Fringe has been great this season.
AL - Low expectations can lead to great results.
Maven - cool that you got a sneak peek.
Happy Lost Day.
Maven; glad you will be joining us this evening.Great pics from Thursday.
The new TV Guide cover is cool, but I am not going near it until Monday.
Enhanced Pilot Saturday.
LAST
LOST
Tuesday.
Amazing. Not sure how to feel.
Enhanced PILOT???? Wow... now that's a twist I didn't expect.
Hey TAV
I know what you mean about the TV Guide. I'm not getting spoiled this late in the game.
I knew they were reshowing the pilot on Sat. but didn't know it would be enhanced.
maven
Glad you'll be with us tonight.
I
Per Kristen from E reporting from the upfronts:
"Jimmy Kimmel also showed up and killed, delivering the best line I've heard to date about Lost: "Watching Lost is what I imagine it's like being trapped inside the brain of Paula Abdul."
I have not even seen the TV guide cover--- I am so unspoiled! Even put the "shush" on a friend at work who loves spoilers! Less than 1 hour!
SG, You're not alone. I didn't have a problem with last week's episode either. In fact, I liked it. I was alittle confused about the rules, but other than that, I was happy to see the backstory of Jacob and MIB. I didn't even mind the A&E flashback to season 1.
So the pilot is going to be enhanced on Sat? Cool! I'll have to setup to record it.
I liked Across The Sea, except for a few beefs with clunky parts of the script, and the savage beating of Claudia. Why oh why does Lost have to be so brutal all the time?! :-p
Memphish, glad you're liking Fringe again. But you didn't think that the Noir-ish musical episode jumped just a little shark?
Looking forward to watching with you all tonight!
It will be interesting being here at 6pm(pdt) reading your comments and trying to remember everything from the episode!
Sorry ,I can't confirm that the Pilot will be enhanced.I read it in the upcoming schedule of Lost shows on DarkUFO.I really hope it is though.
Capcom, the noir episode was okay for me. A little silly, but then I was expecting it to be silly. Now if it had come 3 episodes from the end of the series . . . :-)
Good evening, everyone - the end is nigh....
In the meantime - new post!
Yea! Maven and I are here with you east coasters! Of course this is actually so early I'll have to get dinner on the table first....;) But excited to chime in with you guys.
@Capcom- brutal- I know! I saw a youtube video today where someone put to music all the LOST deaths. It was quite violent! Especially when you have it all in a 6minute clip!
ok...election results are on my TV..... i won't be happy if they play all through the ep!
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