Tonight, Jack questions Locke's motives after he's asked to perform a tough task.
Personally, I'd be WAY past questioning Locke's motives, but this is Jack we're talking about.
And who wouldn't trust a guy holding a package marked "explosives"? Just look at that smile!
Tuesday, May 04, 2010
The Candidate - Season 6, Episode 13
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Here is the updated reading list for the 
276 comments:
1 – 200 of 276 Newer› Newest»First (so few first's left)! :(
Seocnd?
Wahoo, bring it on.
Enjoy, everyone!
Howdooooo folks.
Hi Ded!
I'll be back in a bit. We're hosting 3 kids from Uganda and one chaperone from England. Once they get to bed (and I get a little wine) I'll start the show and skip the commercials.
Looks like MIB has picked up John's knack for blowing stuff up.
Good to see you memephish.
The similarities of MIB and Locke continue.. isn't that C4? (good job on the front page, Mel)
Guess Kate isnt a candidate. Hey Everyone!!
Hi Black Swan & Kat.
Nope, Kate's name was crossed off already.. not a candidate. It's the total turn around from Season 3 with a gun held to Kate right there in front of the cages.
email...:)
xxoo
How rude of me. I was in such a hurry to get here I forgot to say hi to everybody.
So, who believes Widmore, raise your hand..
Hi all- so- could John be a candidate? In some world?
oh crap... I wonder if they are starting to think its not just a coincidence that they keep meeting all the same ppl from the plane.
Feel like we're running in circles? I think Sawyer has become Hurley speaking for the audience now.
LOL, Jack says 'I'm with him'. I'm glad they gave a few more nice moments with Sun and Jin's reunion, but still feels cut short.
Black Swan
I may be crazy but I'm raising my hand. :)
Sonnuvvableep, Knoxville ABC just interrupted with election crap!!!!
I'm slappin' that hand, SG.. LOL!
Noooo! capcom!
lol ok BlackS.
capcom, OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey you all everybody! Long time no blog. Seriously bummed that this crazy ride called LOST is almost over, but SERIOUSLY enjoying it while it lasts.
boooo, boooooo to Knoxville Tv
PHEW! Lost is back on my TV!
Gotta find the phone number of that station in case they do it again! :-p
Is that (as Inspector Clouseau would say) "a buehm" wired into the plane?
this is crazy and i hope it works...i hope he doesnt get on the sub
Glad to see Sawyer isn't totally trusting.. I was starting to worry about him when he looked so suprised last week that Widmore went back on his word..(as if!)
LOL, capcom.. 'buehm'
I guess we'll find out if MIB was lying about not being able to cross the water.
Dang politicians.
Lots of action tonight.Sorry Capcom
Is it just me or am I bad for not feeling sympathy for Cooper? He looked pretty much just like he did after Sawyer got 'im in the brig.
Does Helen seem to know something? Or just wants what John wants.
SG, he already crossed the water
Maybe MIB can't turn into Smokey if he's wet?
Dang, I had a bad feeling when MIB gave Jack the pack!!!!
I was wondering what was in Jack's pack when MIB gave it to him.
OMG!!!
hmmmm trick tricky Mr. Smokey
Yeah, capcom (about Smokie getting wet)
Woah.
lol capcom great minds.
Blk Swn I was meaning turning into Smokey. Didn't say it cleariy.
IM FREAKING OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Surface! SURFACE!
If MIB can't kill the candidates directly- does this count as indirectly? OK by the rules?
Totally SG! X-D
I see Sayid's death coming.
So, was the whole first seasons foreshadowing what would happen at the end here.. Locke blowing up the sub in the earlier season? (or at least it looked like he did, still think there's another sub around)
Gotcha, SG..
surface!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BS, nice call about Locke always wanting to blow up the sub!
Heheh, yeah AL!
Noooooooooooooo Sayid!!!!
My Mind = ZBlown... like Sayid?
Sayid is a hero.. :(
This is hard to watch..
WTF is going on?
Wow that was as sad as Charle's death.
THAT SUCKED!
OK, how can they die, the island doesn't need them anymore, like Ilana? :-o
Why don't you just RIP our hearts out Darylton?
Yeah, TAV.
Soooo, I guess this crosses them off of the Adam and Eve list.
I think this is why I made that theory that they have to die on the Island to live in the sideways, because I knew it would be so hard to see this stuff.
A bit too much Titanic for my taste, but yeah just rip my heart out and stomp on it Darlton!
That was the most disturbing sequence of LOST I have ever seen.
Had a bad feeling about the end- but this seems early to have them go-
Im crying. I cant believe it.
Aaww man... Hurley crying did it.
I was brave until Hurley lost it, then the big drips came out of my eyes. :-(
Jack's gonna go on a rampage to get MIB back in his prison, I bet.
Like you- I don't really think it's the end BS.
BTW, good post ML! :-D
Unhappy Lost Day(:
That's for sure TAV.
BTW, what happened to Frank? Did he die while I was at the computer? Or while the stupid election junk came on again?
Breaking News (from darkufo) the Lost finale extended 30 minutes
RE promo for next week though- I am making a party favor for the finale with just that theme. Right direction I guess.
You called it SG about Sayid- hero's death- and how did we forget about Desmond?
Capcom - He got knocked down by a door bursting in on the sub. It was quick, but I'm sure not painless
Just read on a podcast chat that the finale has been extended by 30 min. Don't know if it's true.
Good question about Frank, capcom. I have no idea.
So, do we think everything would have been ok if Sawyer hadn't pulled that wire?
Whoa! Too bad they can't do a curtain call after the final scene so we could all give them a humungous standing-o. :-)
Oh- Frank! No more decoy to maybe fly a plane anymore. The story did not need him anymore.
Beat me to Blk Swn
I was thinking that too Blacky.
I guess it's not a good idea to tempt whether the island still needs you or not, ya never know when you're going to get ditched!
I think so- like the dynamite- the bomb just wouldn't have gone off.
Capcom, they will feel our love.
LOL, SG.. great minds. How did you know Sayid would do that?
Tx Ginger! Gotta go back and check the instant replay. Poor Frankie.
Do you think it's Jack's faith that keeps him safe or 'the rules'?
You're asking me how I knew Sayid would do that? :) Cause I know my man. lol
Well- Jack now seems to have faith in the rules.
SG, I'm impressed.. you really do know him
Can't wait till Jack looks for Dez.
I guess Sayid has redeemed himself. It was so sad to see him go, though.
And Sun and Jin broke my heart. Jin should have left. Thay have a DAUGHTER who is now an orphan. I'm pissed off at Jin for not thinking of her and pissed off at Sun for not reminding him.
Why wasn't the sonic fence protecting the sub?
I'm going to have to go let this one assimilate-condolences and night all.
JT, yeah.. faith in the rules.
I noticed so many parallels to previous seasons again (jack and juliet with the water rushing in, Jack swimming under water to get to the jughead bomb, the bomb on the boat=freighter, C4 and blowing up subs)
I wonder if Sawyer getting hit on the head this ep will lead to a sideways revelation like Sun's bump on the head did?
I'm guessing that the bomb wouldn't have killed them if Sawyer had left it alone. FLocke can't kill them, but once Sawyer mucked with the bomb, that changed everything. It was the necessary loophole for FLocke to be able to kill them.
But then again, I thought candidates couldn't kill themselves either. I don't get these rules. They seem to morph according the writers' whims.
I feel like I have to rewatch that but I don't know if I can take that sub scene again.
whoa.
somebody remind me...where's Ben?
Ben Richard and Miles are in Dhramaville.
Hey Swany can I put my hand up again. ;)
thanks SG
my condolences on Sayid's loss.
I had a bad feeling when Flocke helped Jack on with his pack. I thought for sure he switched packs with Jack.
what a baaad man!
Lostit, you've made a good point about those rules.. You say Flocke can't kill them, but wouldn't he know the rules? Was he banking on somebody not trusting Jack's take on things and that cancelled the rules? Who's making these rules? Where's the rule book?
Amused, Ben Richard, and Miles went to Dharmaville to look for grenades and C4 to blow up the Ajira plane, because they fear MIB getting off the island in that. So it's a toss up in my mind if they did that to the plane or if Widmore did.
LOL, SG.. yeah, maybe you should be smacking my hand up too? I have a new faith in your prophecies and bow down to you.
Blk Swn said
Amused, Ben Richard, and Miles went to Dharmaville to look for grenades and C4 to blow up the Ajira plane, because they fear MIB getting off the island in that. So it's a toss up in my mind if they did that to the plane or if Widmore did.
Good point I never thought of that.
Waaahhhh! Sun and Jin and Sayid! And then Hurley cried! The Sideways world has to be the right one now. Take that last 5 years.
Oh I've been wrong plenty of times. Time will tell about Widmore.
I'm not really happy that Darlton has finally made me want the sideways to be true.. in fact, it infuriates me!!
LOL Memphish.
I agree Lostit, these rules do seem to morph!
I still don't want the sideways to be true. And I still don't think it will be.
That sideways cup of coffee is sounding mighty good to me now.
Goodnight JT,and everyone; I'm out too.
I hope I don't wake up screaming.
Night TAV and JT.
Thanks Black Swan, I'd forgotten Ben threw in his lot with Richard.
No way is Ji Yeon going to be an orphan. I think Darlton still has a few cards up his sleeve.
But, SG.. they don't have much time to make it end any other way, do they? I guess they could end it still great somehow.. but it will be so ambiguous and open-ended we'll keep talking about it (which is exactly what they want..LOL!)
Blk Swn
You may be right. But I don't have to like it. :)
Amused, I still want to see more Ben. Maybe Ben & Co already got Des out of the well?
Oh, snap... they will find out Kate is to be JiYeon's guardian.. she'll finally legally have a kid
I don't like it SG. they needed at least another year to do all this right
Doc Jensen has an article with Darlton on why they killed the people they did.
BTW I haven't read it yet. So I don't know it there are spoilers.
Where, SG? I'll read it for spoilers for you
It's the main article posted at ew.com. No spoilers as long as you paid attention tonight.
Also, is there any possibility that next week is the Richard, Ben & Miles show? Please????
Here's a link Blk Swn
EW
Thanks, SG and AL. I'll go check it out.
I just posted a really dumb post so I deleted it. I've got a podcast going on in my ear and only hearing part of it while I'm surfing and blogging etc. lol
Guess I didn' delete soon enough.
SG, was that what I was answering? I'll delete mine if you want.
As far as Doc Jensen's article, there are no spoilers if you've seen the Candidate. Or I can paraphrase or copy the important points.
Blk Swn
Yeah it was the one you answered but you don't have to delete unless you want. You can post the important points if you want. Up to you.
I wonder if Bernard and Rose will be showing up again on the island. Last time we saw them, they were living happily ever after in their "retirement home" in 1977.
Oh- lol- I'm back- couldn't go to sleep yet!
Some things that occurred-
Tonight was wrenching- but not as wrenching as it would have been if I had not seen Jin walk down that hospital corridor with the flowers. I think Darlton knows that there is a trade off in emotional impact when you have that other possibility.
That conversation between Jack & John re letting go of fathers-really pointed out the idea of solving their issues by letting go of their fathers' influence over them. Ironic in the f/side that John loves Cooper and "kills" him accidentally - but still seems to have to get rid of him.
About Flocke & the C4- he knew he was going to make a bomb with a timer when he took the guys watch before he went into the plane. He's kept that backpack through everything. We didn't see him actually find the C4 on the plane. So I think he had it in the pack all along- and really was more interested in the wires. So that would mean Widmore didn't plan to blow up the plane.
I noticed that when Jack told Locke in the FS that "I wish you believed me", that phrase stopped Locke in his tracks for a second. It was the same phrase Locke was saying when he was talking in his sleep in the hospital about pushing the button.
And Jorge is on Jimmy Kimmel tonight!
Lostit- f/side Locke also seemed to notice Jin especially. Of course, "I wish you believed in me "was what he had on his suicide note in island time.
I feel kinda cheated. Instead of crying my eyes out like I should have, I just got pissed. I'd rather be sad than angry and I'm angry that the episode made me angry. Maybe I'm channeling Sawyer.
JT was the C4 in the over head compartment? I know we really wasn't shown. If not maybe he got at Dharmaville when he went to talk to Sawyer.
SG, I just deleted it.. it's being talked about anyway.
Yeah, Jorge is on Kimmel. Boy, he did a good job tonight, didn't he?
Lostit, LOL, channeling Sawyer. Yeah, like I said earlier tonight, in my mind he's becoming the voice of the audience now instead of Hurley. Maybe they knocked him out so he wouldn't give any spoilers away. What exactly are you mad about, Lostit?
BS, I'm mad about Jin and Sun. Their daughter is now an orphan and neither one of them even mentioned her in their last moments together. It was as if she didn't exist. At the very least, she didn't matter much to them. Jin should've left Sun to die alone so that he could go home and be a father. Sun should've insisted on it. But neither of them said a word about her.
@LostIt, I'd be curious to see if there was ever dialog in the script about Ji Yeon and maybe it was cut? It seems inexcusable that she wouldn't be mentioned.
Then again, with MIB going after the LOSTIES, Kate shot, the sub sunk, I'm not sure Jin had much of a shot at being a father to Ji Yeon either way. Perhaps he thought dying with his wife was better than dying alone.
Yes AL- I thought too that Jin knew he was just going back to the island- and he knew his daughter was with her grandmother at least. The big issue for Jin & Sun is being together-so in the end hey were.
Yeah, similar to the line about turning the pylons off a few weeks ago, I think Jin asking if Ji Yeon was with Sun's mother was equally important for us not to miss.
Lostit, yeah and thanks for answering. I'm finding the way our Losties are acting on Island to be more unreal than the sideways now. It's out of character for Sawyer to act and not think and not be able to tell when someone is conning or lying to him. That negates the whole 70's Dharma time. It's out of character for Kate to not even look at Sawyer laying there on the beach and only saying she was so scared that she couldn't find Jack. That negates at least half of the whole first 3 seasons (and more). It's out of character for Jack to be cool, calm and collected (except for the very beginning of Lost). It's out of character for Jin and Sun not to think of their child. It's just plain depressing to see Hurley lose his positive outlook and be so devastated and sad all the time.
So, what Hurley said at comic-con about Jack's reset negating all previous 5 seasons of Lost is coming true right before our eyes. I guess that's what Juliet was trying to say and Miles read her mind after she died that her last thoughts were, 'it worked'
LOL, Kimmel: "Tonight on Lost all the foreigners got killed" I was actually thinking about that.
Did I miss Kimmel. I sitting here with the tv on but it's muted. hmmm oh well it'll be on youtube hulu or some place I guess. Catch it tomorrow. Night All.
Black Swan--> yeah, all the foreigners EXCEPT for the Brits!
It's on right now, SG
amused, you talking about Widmore?
Not on my tv. Are we in different time zones?
I just checked it comes on at 1:00 here. I'm going to record it. See ya all later.
1. so sad with sun and jin. Like titanic if rose died too.
2. sayid really redeemed himself
3. Sayid,"jack your going to be the one". He knows jack is the new jacob.
4. Flocke knows whats going to happen to a point. He knew that some candidates would live.
5. widmore only has a list of 4, but not the 4 he said, the real 4 are kate, hurley, jack, and sawyer.
6 kate is probably still a candidate, the lighthouse had her uncrossed out, flocke ploy to make her crossed off in the cave was to manipulate sawyer.
7. We now see the sideways is not necessarily smokey's reality. Locke is really locke in the sideways.
8. Why hasn't jack flashed to the sideways or back?
9. Where is widmore and zoe?
10. Locke had no real sin in the island timeline, but he's got the crash on his conscience in the sideways.
11. Ben, Rick, and Miles are up to something.
12. Why did widmore wire the plane with c4, does he think smokey is really trying to physically leave. How was flocke so sure he would have the materials for his bomb on hydra island?
13. Was locke so driven to stay on the island before because he was the front runner for candidate.
14. Was the island timeline the locke centric timeline where he was the candidate like island reality is 4 locke. Is the sideways jack's centric reality where he replaces jacob, sideways equals 32 jack iteration of the timeline.
15 Was locke being crossed of the cave wall, the only candidate to be crossed off in the iteration of the timeline, like every candidate gets a crack at being the new jacob and there are 360 realities. The only 2 that matter are the two we see on the show because the previous timeline begat the sideways, and the sideways is jack's reality , where he starts meddling with things like jacob, or a third reality will be created.
16. Flocke totally lied to jack about being able to kill him.
17. Is smokey still looking for a recruit to replace him as the smoke monster?
SG, I'm in Eastern time. I think it's the same as you?
2costa, I was thinking it was Richard, Ben and Miles who put the c4 in the plane, not widmore. Could you explain more what you mean by your points #14 and 15? It sounds interesting, but I don't get it with the iterations.
I don't think smokie is recruiting for a replacement. I think he just wants to get rid of all the candidates.
I think I'm speechless. How could this carnage take place tonight? I agree that Sun should have urged Jin to go so he could raise Ji-Yeon!
I just can't think now.....
2C-my thought was that Flocke had to already know there was c4 on the plane, or he had the c4 himself- because he took the watch to set the bomb before he went into the plane.
My vote is that he was carrying it with him in his ever present backpack-just like Locke did to blow up the sub the first time.
Widmore, Desmond...yeah I know he was referring to the Oceanic 815 Losties, but I just thought I'd throw all the brits in with the foreigners. ;-)
g'night all...gotta get some rest and mourn the Kwons. And Sayid. and Frank.
yeah, my thoughts exactly, Frank.
Emotionally drained. RIP Sun, Jin, Sayid and Frank.
Hey everybody!
I've been reduced to lurking lately...but had to say that this is terrible! So sad tonight. I am seriously brain dead.
Jorge is on JKL tonight...will have to record it.
When Jack screamed to Hurley "There is no Sayid" ...man, that stung.
As others have posted, I'm hoping there still is some last minute swerve (that makes sense in context of the Lost universe) where all our Losties aren't dead.
I have a question. The Lostpedia notes for The Candidate say "As of the end of this episode, Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Claire, and Walt are the only main characters from Season 1 who are still alive in the original timeline."
So are we supposed to assume that Rose & Bernard died with Juliet in the bomb?
I've always assumed Rose and Bernard stayed in '77 but who knows. They may have jumped but are still living in the jungle.
AL- LP doesn't know about Rose and Bernard any more than we do.
Anyone else going to Jay & Jack party who bought their poster that went on sale yesterday?
Anyone got tickets to the 5 hour Jimmy Kimmel event finale day? Starts at 2:30 and looks like it will be great.
black swan, i meant that each iteration of the timeline only one candidate is eliminated from contention. At the same time it also seems like 2 candidates were just eliminated from the running(sayid, sun/jin), so i don't really know. It would sort of make sense that each candidate would have a crack at beating smokey and every other time it ended the same way with mib free. Jacob is looking for the candidate that can change that and re-trap smokey.
I also think it's possible that flocke needs a replacement to finish his plan. Or as i said the game is battleship and no side wins until the island is sunk. I think the sideways may not be a bad option, but desmond has to do something in 2007 in order to preserve the sideways. He probably is the only one that could move the island to before 2004 as it is sinking because he can withstand the EM energy of the swan. This act is what ultimately creates the sideways.
I do think that before Locke died he was the front runner for the new jacob, thats why he really felt the need to stay and now jack is the front runner so he feels the need to stay.
did mib know exactly who was gonna die on the sub?
seems really convenient for flocke that both kwons are dead so he has no ambiguity as to who the remaining candidates are.
i wonder if desmond or kate is the fourth candidate?
how did widmore get his list of 4? from jacob or did zoe find the cave.
it seems clear much of what the others did to the losties was to prepare them for the sub and hydra island. like kate and sawyer were on hydra island before to get the lay of the land.
i think widmore let locke take everyone and blow up the sub.
jin seemed like what he did was commiting suicide, so i wonder if sun was really the candidate?
I think widmore and flocke knew what was coming and only 4 would remain on the list.
i think that ben and company would have just blown up the plane, not rigged it. Widmore just wired it so that in case flocke didn't succeed they would have a simuliar incident on the plane as on the sub. It seems like jacob, flocke, and widmore all realize the candidate search needs to come down to 1.
seems to me locke needed to find the c4 and not bring it because of the rules, if he brought the c4 it would have been 2 close to flocke personally killing the candidates. He used a loophole to make it like " all i did was hand jack the wrong backpack, not kill antyone".
i also think that the bomb was like the swan clock. jack questioned if the button did anything and when he didn't push the button the swan started shaking and he got scared and pushed the code. That parallels the stop watch speeding up after sawyer pulled the wires. Had sawyer not been there to pull the wires prematurely, jack would have probably died with sayid.
bens "hydra rabbit stopwatch pacemaker" con on sawyer was designed to make sawyer never get conned by mib, and to give sawyer the confidence to pull the wires.
jack still has a pilot's liscence, but i dont think he want to leave.
flocke rational for not taking the plane was very flimsy
Locke blowing up the sub with c4, was very simuliar to last night. I wonder if in a previous iteration of the timeline basically the same thing happened but on the others sub, so locke/jacob/ben tried to change things by blowing up the others sub,but widmore course corrected by bringing his own sub. It does seem that while locke was an agent of jacob, his plan may have averted mib's master plan, if no one left or if jack didn't talk to the freighter, the time loop would have never started because the island wouldn't need to be moved. Also, faraday never would have gotten the proper info on the island to fuel his work in the past.
Seems interesting that the real rat bastard dads of the island timeline are all in poor shape in the sideways. Christain is dead. Roger workman is barely breathing and cooper is a vegetable. I wonder what's up with Hugo's dad in the sideways. It almost seems like reincarnation karms. Cooper was a jerk so he is punished in his next life like becoming a fly.
I now wonder if the sideways is the reality that Jack set up through jacobesque meddling to give all his friends their happy ending or at least the chance to be alive. I think it makes sense that krs, klugh would be so eager to die for the cause if she knew their would be a sideways second chance
jacob's line to mib " it always ends the same, anything that happens before that is progress", seems to imply that the timeline has played out several times and always ends with mib free and the world soon coming to an end. SO thats what makes me think there are more than 2 iterations of the timeline.
Instead of 360 timelines, i can also make a case for 60 iteration's of the timeline. In each iteration of the timeline 6 of the candidate's are given their crack at saving humanity. Lost 1.0 is the iteration of the timeline where locke4, hugo8, sawyer 15, sayid 16, shep 32, and kwon 42, get their chance at being the new jacob, so these numbers are significant in this iteration more than others. So in this framework 6 candidates can be crossed of the cave list per iteration of the timeline. In this scenario Jack or whoever would ascend to the role of jacob in island time and the sideways is the reality where jack is jacob and the 60 cycle has reset. Jack will get 60 cracks at finding a replacement. Perhaps he has to field 360 new candidates from the lighthouse mirror locations on the outside world. Seems to make sense that after a new jacob is crowned he would have to start to look for his own future replacement. I also tend to think if jack becomes the new jacob one of the other losties will become the new face of the smoke monster. SO perhaps in the sideways hurley's winning lottery numebers ar enot the classic lost numbers, but 6 differnt ones.
Hmm 2c-I didn't remember- Jack has a pilot's license- and the plane isn't dead yet.
I don't get how you are looking at the bomb. It seems pretty clear that Locke built it with the watch-so he did more than just give Jack the wrong backpack. I think it was as Jack said-the bomb would not have gone off if they had left it alone, but when Sawyer altered it then it could kill them.
I don't see how Locke knew that the sub sank-that his plan worked- and that some were still alive. He could not see it obviously.
2c- Jacob's line is "It only ends once." as I recall. (I hope so- I'm using that on something I'm making!)
it also seems that sayid had a knowledge beyond how long he lived, why else would he let zoe live or desmond. He seems pretty sure jack is the "one". I highly doubt it was mib in the cabin with locke and Ben. I think it may have been jack as future jacob.
i also think that jack in thailand was very simliar to jacob, just laying on the beach drinking beer. Jacob sits around drinking wine and grilling fish.
if my 60 iteration theory is right then kate is not a candidate because 51 isnt one of the sweet numbers in this iteration of the timeline, but she is still important just like claire seems to still be important.
i wonder if mib is keeping claire alive because of his soft spot for crazy moms or if he still wants to use her to manipulate the remaining candidates. A third possibility is the smokey replacement needs to be a former candidate and claire is in line for the job as smokey. It seemed vert staged that widmores people didn't start shooting until claire and kate were about to board. If kate hadn't been shot. Hurley, kate, jack and sawyer could have saved sun and jin. Just plays into the notion that widmore is working form a script of things to do. He doesn't stray from these events too much because it would make his knowledge of the future more unpredictable and variable and less reliable.
jack made the point that flocke didn't just lob the bomb in the sub because that would be flocke directly killing candidates, then he theorized that flocke was trying to get them to kill each other. Building the bomb and handing it to jack was a loophole in the rules, I am saying intention is important. Flocke techinically found the watch and c4 he didn't bring it over to the island with the intention of having jack blow up the sub. Jack and co are now going to be emboldened with flocke because they figured out he can't directly kill them, probably why kate is still alive to manipulate sawyer and jack like widmore did with her. Maybe flocke could only be that direct in trying to kill candidates off island and the sub was far enough away. The way the bomb just went faster after the wires implys that flocke needs someone to survive for his plan still.
jack made the point that flocke didn't just lob the bomb in the sub because that would be flocke directly killing candidates, then he theorized that flocke was trying to get them to kill each other. Building the bomb and handing it to jack was a loophole in the rules, I am saying intention is important. Flocke techinically found the watch and c4 he didn't bring it over to the island with the intention of having jack blow up the sub. Jack and co are now going to be emboldened with flocke because they figured out he can't directly kill them, probably why kate is still alive to manipulate sawyer and jack like widmore did with her. Maybe flocke could only be that direct in trying to kill candidates off island and the sub was far enough away. The way the bomb just went faster after the wires implys that flocke needs someone to survive for his plan still.
I don't think that Flocke just found the C4. I think he knew it was there. Whether it was put there by Widmore (in cahoots with Flocke) or Team Richard, who knows.
I firmly believe that had Sawyer *not* tampered with the bomb, it would have simply not gone off. Same situation with Richard and Jack + dynamite.
But the loophole was indeed because he touched it, in essence absolving MIB/Flock of any prior act and Sawyer being at fault from that point forward.
just thinking, i can see what your saying and i agree. The bomb was a loophole in that it wouldn't have gone off. This also plays into the reason sawyer had to be there. The swan experience was trying to make jack choose not pushing the button, but then fear set in when the swan started rumbling, but jack is so stubborn he didn't learn from that so he still wanted to let the clock on the bomb go off. At the same time who knows what would have happened if it wasn't tinkered with. Perhaps the dynamite incident with richard was jacob's attempt to show jack the bomb wouldn't go off if not meddled with. It goes back to sawyer never trusting anyone or thing. Jack has trust in the island and sawyer does not trust anyone but himself. Flocke banked on sawyers mistrust to lead to locke not being on the sub as well. The others ambush of the sailboat reminded me of widmore's sub ambush. Flocke must have known that was gonna happen or else jack wouldn't have been on the sub.
the bomb on ajira was so shabbily hidden that sayid would have found it.
im sure widmore put the c4 there, ben and richard have no motivation to destroy the people on it just the plane and i doubt they could have snuck past widmore's men. I wonder if locke had to blow up the dharma sub in order for flocke to know how to make that bomb. Just as of mice and men was after mib's time, c4 and timers are after mib's time, so perhaps he needed that personal experience with locke's memories to pull it off. Seems likek mike had hurley destroy the dynamite to avert the sub or plane blowing up, widmore;s c4 and sub were just course corrections.
De sub Cinco; Mayo,mayo.
I think Widmore and Flock both have a limited knowledge of the future.
Case in point is I think Widmore planted the C4 in the plane, knowing Flock would find it, give it to Jack, the whole deal.
The question in my mind is, where does Widmore's future knowledge end, and does Flock have more future knowledge than Widmore?
I would think Flock has more knowledge as he is the supernatural character (as compared to Widmore only being relatively normal) but maybe Desmond is the ace up Widmore's sleeve to counter Flocks moves going forward.
One big chess game.
How's everyone's Lost hangover? @:-o
I'm still having trouble understanding the Rules about the bomb and Sawyer, etc. Because when Keamy tried to shoot Mike, the gun didn't go off, so even if Mike wasn't trying to shoot himself, a gun pointed at him would not shoot because the island needed/protected him. I'm confused.
it was mib that said every time its tha same thing. ONe ending that jacob and mib seem to know. I still think many iterations but one ending. I also think all 60 or 360 iterations all resemble each other. Mib's endgame is to go back and change things before jacob was the island protector and thus all 360 or 60 jacob iterations of the timeline would cease to exist. I also think that if anyone becomes the new jacob, they get to pick 360 new candidates and play the same game to pick his own successor.
well capcom the island was obviously done with sun, jin, frank, and sayid.
im torn about the bomb, it may have still gone off but the candidates would have survived. just like widmores mortar still went of but didn't kill jack. I think the reference about a list of 4, seemed to belie that 2 candidates were no longer untouchable. We now know that was sayid and one of the kwons. I think part of why flocke.jacob keep important non candidate characters around the candidates is so the candidates have other motivations, like spiderman always having to worry about mary jane.
i wonder if jack ran of with the bomb instead of sayid if it would have still gone off or what. Just as jin was in the right place in the right time to survive the frieghter, the island makes sure you will survive if it's not doen with you. I wonder if candidates have free reign to kill other candidates. Thats why hurley and sawyer had to kill pryce and friendly.
So Capcom- you're wondering who or what is allowed to kill candidates? Maybe as Jack said- they can kill each other?
On another thought- did Claire say in the hospital with Jack that she had never met Christian- did not know him in the F/side? So, did Christian leave her the "Catch a falling star" song to remind her of island times- to connect her? Jack & Claire looking in the mirror reinforce that- and again it makes you wonder about Christian-was some form of him with team Jacob?
miles made a good choice going with ben and richard
if jacob was like a father to illanna and she had never been to the island, then i think jacob had an off island life in the last 30 years. I wonder if Island jack traveled to the sideways somehow, if there could be the jack that's the candidate and the sideways jack, both living in one reality at the same time. So jack could still have a life, but also go around meddling. Because the meddler would be borrowed from the island timeline. Weird to think, but perhaps island jack from their future has set up all the 815'ers connections in the sideways. If jack or desmond was to turn the donkey wheel as the island was sinking to before 2004, they would create the sideways and be popped out in tunesia, so there would be 2 desmonds or jacks in the sideways. The one that was already there and the one in tunesia. This has already happened like locke watching himself at the swan seeing desmonds light last season. Remember only fools are trapped by time and space. The 2 lockes was a time thing, 2 jacks in the sideways would be time and Space, or only a time thing if sinking the island and moving it to before 2004 would istantly creat the sideways which would be the only reality. SO the preson that popped out in tunesia would have a time line to go back to.
Lol 2c- in Indiana Jones terms- he did not choose poorly!
Also noticed that Jack said he went to get his father's body in Australia-so his father was already dead there in the f/side and Jack did not see him in Australia.
Right 2C and JT. Also, Jack figured out that the dynamite would not go off in the BR, because he was in there too, even if he did light it for RA when RA could not light it for himself. So they were all safe from the TNT.
So even if Sawyer did pull the wire, if anyone in there was still protected....man, I'm so confused. Like I said, you'd better not trust that the island needs you, cuz you never know when it won't anymore!
I thought candidates can't kill *themselves* but this leaves the other candidates able to kill each other.
You just can't commit suicide.
Correct. The candidates can kill each OTHER though.
So does that mean that Sawyer was safe, no matter what?
he never saw him australia, only sawyer did
capcom, thats what we need to see, when did claire get crossed of the wall and why or miles/chang?
I think candidates can kill other candidates at any time, but they can not kill themselves. The dynamite thing happened because it would have been jack killing himself.
I think flocke wants sawyer to be the last candidate, otherwide he wouldn't have saced him at the cave, so under the theory of bomb meddling above, sawyer may have lived through a direct blast on the sub, because he meddled. Flocke may know not everyone died, becuase he knows that the only way the bomb went off was someone and that that person would live.
I think Jin was only able to kill himself because for whatever reason he was no longer an candidate or sun was the candidate and sawyer's meddling indirectly killed her. Sun and Jin's death as well as charlies almost reminds me like in monster genre stuff trapping a vampire or whatever for eternity if you can't kill them. It's almost like water trumps island favoritism. Even if charlie was meant to live being trapped in a water tomb trumps bunk dynamite or a gun that fails to go off.
sorry i meant that flocke knew whoever meddled with the bomb would live or that the four names on widmores list would live regardless
2costa, what do you mean by Widmore's list?
Amy Lynn
I think this is what 2costa is talking about.
SAWYER: You ain't gonna kill anybody. Otherwise you wouldn't be throwin' us in a cage.
WIDMORE: I have a list of names. Ford, you're on it. As are Reyes and the Kwons. Kate Austen? She's not. It doesn't matter to me whether she lives or dies.
@SG, thanks. I found it interesting that the four people left on the beach - Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer - are the four names that were on Klugh's list in "Three Minutes"
2c- yes- guess Jack did not see Christian in Australia- but Jack thought he was alive when he went there. In the f/side sounds like Jack just went to get the body. Not sure what it means- beside just being a difference.
good catch on klugh's list amy lynn, ironically sayid, sun and jin were also right off the pier in the sailboat. when the four from klugh's list were with mike and walt on the pier and sun, jin and sayid all died together at sea.
i thought he said four when he said ford,
im pretty sure that flocke only knew how to make that bomb because he is in the form of locke. It's interesting that mib wont read anythind after his time, but jacob seems to like reading and learning about things after his time. It seems to me that maybe whoever is the "jacob " of the island has to asign someone form their life to be smokey. like a battle between jack and mib as smokey doesn't seem right. It seems more likely that jacob and mib are like jack and locke or sawyer. I think it's possible that locke's essence might take over smokey if jack becomes jacob. Perhaps mib is just a facsimile of the original mib that was a man(that know's happiness and betrayal), created by smokey through his scan.like it recreated john locke. Locke no longer has a body, just like mib said jacob took his body. Just because mib may just be a copy, doesnt prevent him from wanting to change history for the mortal mib way back in the day.
i mean that mib is from jacob's past so their rivalry seems to make sense, so soemone from jack's past has to be smokey to make it a balanced game. Jack battling mib through another 360 candidates seems like it would be weak. Just as jacob loses his throne after this all plays out, mib probably goes to hell or ceases to exist and someone else leads the collective of dark souls that is the smoke. I dont think the cycle stops when someone replaces jacob it just resets ofr gets history of mankind a little further down the road without ending it all.
they announced the finale is going to be extended to 2 and a half hours on the 23rd because they had crucial stuff to put in there, yay
Found this on my friend's blog. LOL
Also, Sideways Claire is completely OK with people throwing indecent proposals her way, isn't she? First we had her accept a car ride from her hijacker, Kate. Then she agreed to use uber-sketchy Desmond's lawyer even though Desmond was coming on to her at two ticks under rapist. And now she accepts room and board from her half-brother who she met five minutes ago? Girl seems easy to convince. Maybe that's how she got pregnant.
I think Flocke "felt" that the sub sank, and that not all the candidates died. Somehow, he "sensed" it (like Obi-wan sensing a 'great disturbance' in the Force...)
just mho
If Jack replaces Jacob,and Claire replaces MIB,they may be come Adam & Eve;(white and black stones).If they figured out how to mutually off themselves,it really would end,
and the Island sinks. Vive la sideways.
That doesn't explain how A&E were found in the cave however.
Any ideas?
Wow, bummer, bang, glug glug.
I have a feeling that Flocke knew that the sub was going to sink as he had done this before many times. Maybe in the other times he has done it he got to this stage only to be stopped in his plan by one of the Losties.
That's what Jacob mean't by it only ends once, that the start and end of this are fixed and no matter how many times they play out the detail it only ends with MIB being stuck or destroyed.
MIB is trying all possible combinations to change the outcome, and what we are seeing is what MIB thinks is the the final solution to the problem.
I don't know Zort- what does Jacob mean by "everything else is just progress "then? Seems like in your scenario he would have said- "it only ends one way."
Locke does seem to know stuff though. He took the watch to make the bomb before he went into the plane-which, as I've said-means he already had C4 with him- or he knew it was going to be on the plane. Though I'm still leaning toward him having it all along, and the story about Widmore blowing them up being a bit of misdirection for us.
Widmore could have killed them one by one anytime, and I don't think blowing him up would kill Smokey. Unless Widmore couldn't kill them because they were candidates-would he be able to trick them into blowing themselves up in that case? Seems like the element of choice isn't there if they just would have gone when they started the plane, without knowing there was a bomb. So in that case it would be Widmore's responsibility still, and not allowed if he can't kill candidates.
In other words- Widmore could still be a "good guy" in his own nasty way.
The progress is getting closer to the goal (in MIB's case escaping the island)
I'm sure he did know about wanting to make a bomb, because of removing the watch before getting on the plane. (Nice bamboo steps by the way)
Blowing them up wouldn't kill smokey, but the idea is to keep him contained on the island. However it would have been much simpler to just destroy the plane, not se an elaborate booby trap.
That says to me that Widmore also knows what is going to happen and like a chess player is trying to think a few moves ahead.
morning all,
just saw the candidate late last night. and boy for the first time i wish i was i had a heads up of what was coming. not fun watching 3major charachters and frank die in the same episode at 1:30 in the morning, and sawyer being partly to blame for it.
in the f/s locke is the reason that cooper is all messed up and the reason he is paralyzed. does that mean he is not the con man that got sawyer parents?
jin/sun - i understand the frustration with jin not saving himself, but i dont think i could have left her either. although that was a sad scene it didnt come close to the charlie scene.
sayid is and always will be one bad motha- shut your mouth.. RIP my brotha
if the timer was on and counting, if they didnt check the bag would it have still gone off.
claire may be the one who actually takes out MIB. she has to see for the first time that he is trying to kill all of them and is a fraud.
and was there a back story to the music box? other than more mirror work with jack and claire.
RIP JIn Sun Sayid and Frank
cooper was still the conman that killed sawyers parents in the sideways, but just like roger linus, he seems to be a lot less evil in the sideways. Perhaps locke's plane accident happened when they were still in their happy skeet shooting phase. So locke crippled his dad before he had a chance to throw him out the window and discover his latest cons.
i have this feeling that locke being able to walk when he comes to the island is because jack fixes him in the sideways. Every time locke strayed off the path that would create the sideways, he started to lose his legs again like marty mcfly fadeing in his picture. If jacob's touch didn't heal his legs why would the island. If the island did heal him, why did he start to lose the ability here and there.
One thing to me is clear, that if jack had listened to locke before he contacted the frieghter or left the island. Things would have played out very differently. MIB probably never would have become locke.
Post a Comment