This description says it all:
The sixth and final season begins in the aftermath of the H-bomb detonation, as the survivors learn "when" they are.
Here we go......
Tuesday, February 02, 2010
LA X - Season 6, Episode 1
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«Oldest ‹Older 801 – 1000 of 1212 Newer› Newest»capcom
That's too funny I was thinking the same thing when I seen Ob post SNARF. :)
Well if nothing else I have claim to starting a new page. lol
No, my problem with Ob's comment was basically that her stance was, "I don't care that the creators of the show think I'm wrong, I will INSIST on being right, and you should all agree with me."
Amy Lynn
Really, I didn't get that from her.
Just because TPTB don't like the term alternate doesn't make Ob's definition wrong. The way I look at it anyway.
There is actually only the timeline we're familiar with, and now a new timeline that we're not familiar with (barring all the sidelines that we've traversed such as Des mental travel. FBs, FFs, etc). So we have to label them something in our heads, but it doesn't mean that we need to get hung up on the actual meaning of the labels. I don't care if we call it the apples timeline and the oranges timeline, but there is more than one here so we have to define them somehow to be able to discuss them. TPTB need to help us on this dammitt.
grr "That's: the way...
lol Agreed capcom.
Some really interesting ideas guys! I like Thorsten's suggestion that Jacob visited some Prime Lost and Timeline B losties. It would certainly explain a lot of the continuity 'errors' we have seen e.g. Sun and JIn's wedding day...the photo in the paper Jin's Mum shows her has her dressed in traditional Korean wedding garments whilst their wedding where Jacob visits has Sun sporting a traditional Western-style wedding dress.
I think that it's a good idea to keep in mind how JJ's other TT stories have been structured, as someone said last night, and try to go by those guidelines until TPTB have a heart and give us a hand here.
futureself
The wedding attire was also dfferent in In Transition too. That's on of memephish's pet peeves. :)
@SG, actually, it DOES mean that OB is wrong.
Can I just go around saying that Jae was murdered, even though Darlton said he committed suicide? Of course not. *rolls eyes*
Amy Lynn I not going to argue with you about it. It's not that important.
Oh did Dalton say he committed suicide? Cool!
But even if they did say he committed suicide, and I agree that he did, he was also murdered. Ben killed him with murderous rage. Just because Jacob was complicit in this and his intention was suicide doesn;t mean that Ben was in on it. It was a Murder-Suicide. Duality (unless Ben was in on it then it was assisted-suicide and would argue to the high court that it was not murder).
Dang that was a conversation killer. Or is everyone waiting to be 815? :)
Am I 815?
@SG! WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo!!!
@futureself, huh? I don't think Ben and Jae ever crossed paths.
..getting a bit wrapped around the axle about Alternate are we? Perhaps Simultaneous is a more fitting way to see the presented realities of season 6 LOST...and yes that brings the whole Surreal idea that Man lives a dual existence, is cut in half, and lives a conflicted existence struggling between the External reality and the Internal reality. Epi 1 and 2 of season 6 make it easy to see. Yes, that surfaces the arc to Wholeness, the Unification of these two realities of Man, and in that,,it has to be understood that there is that Unseen Presence of...Who is the Unified persona? or as some are asking, who is the Candidate? Frank Lapidus is an early on favorite. I believe we haven't met the potential Unified Who yet.
Maven asks where is Home? That Unified, non-conflicted existence is Home..imho. That infers " Him" being the fortunate soul with free and unencumbered access to the Imagination, the Island, and with the concept of " everything with Love" ( A Breton's slogan) is able to create and explore his talents and potentials: a at peace with Himself and therefore a step towards world peace taken.
How LOST will travel that path I leave to the fantastic experts who have done a amazing job of it for 5 seasons.
In any case..they have begun the path to an end. There is only one end,,so all must converge to it. Progress suggests a confidence, a clear vision, a non compromising stance. MIB Locke fits the description. He will have his challenges. So, the point of Unification suggests a WOWNESS to counter balance the dread and carnage of getting there. I am expecting it anyway.
Lat..being without job,doesn't mean you have to hit the tables already.. does it?
MEL
Simultaneous is perfect MEL. I think someone may have said that oh, 200 posts ago. It may have been you. :) lol
Amy Lynn, I was just making a convoluted point and didn't mean to suggest I had any proof of the two meeting prior to the big cheese cabot in the foot. It just struck me that your example could be seen from two views.
Congrats on hitting the magic number SG ;)
Thanks futureself
That just seems so silly to say thank you for. lol
hah, I go shaving and BOOM, SG hits 815!
;))
TT in Star Trek went the way following quantum mechanics. An event creates a new timeline, but both exist next to each other. Same here. But many worlds postulates that neighbouring universes tend to collapse into the most propable outcome. This is what will happen with LOST B and PRIME, too…
SG..yea..i haven't changed my stance. When I look at at the similar between the Jack on Plane reality and the Island reality..what they share..the simultaneous becomes obvious. True..seeing the similar requires ..ohh..how do you say...an expanded vision. Dam I love the international of this show.
MEL
So basically, they got on the plane. . .
And from there two separate but equally valid timelines emerged.
One of them winds around on the island.
One of them is a direct route.
But it only ends once.
I keep thinking of them as the Island timeline and the Paralell timeline in my head.
Paralell doesn't imply that it's any less valid really to me.
Did anyone else read that Koontz book where they had the blind guy who lived in one timeline but he could briefly visit other timelines. . .none of them was less real. . .but one was "home" to him. . .that's what all this reminds me of.
The timeline that's the home of our original story.
And another timeline that's the home of MIB (maybe). That he's trying to get back to. . .
No, lost2010.
One Timeline starts in 1977, with Juliet banging on Jughedas core. Everything changes from there on and becomes Lost as we know it.
The other timeline without the crash is the unaltered one.
Stuck in traffic and quickly able to celebrate SayidsGirl hitting 815 by honking my horn and waving out of the window!!
You win the prize! Treat yourself to something non alcoholic!
Can't wait to see how many times TLC passes 815 this season.
Thorsten, you had a shave! Must be a special night ;-)
so it branched in 77?
Pffft. I'm going back to imagining Sawyer without his shirt - this is too complicated. ;)
Darlton said that the exact nature of the relationship between the flashes will become clear slowly. I hypothesized that it will be THE question of the season (though not of the series). So far I've only been thinking of them as separate timelines or separate realities, but they might only appear that way. They could actually be points along a new timeline.
What if the universe course corrects by allowing the 815 flight to land in 2004 but creating new circumstances in which they end up on the island anyway. Jack has to go back to Australia to look for his dad's coffin, maybe Kate escapes again to Australia, etc., the island gets raised from the bottom of the ocean unharmed...The island can leap through time and space. Being at the bottom of the ocean at one point shouldn't be a biggie for this island.
Maybe through some circuitous circumstances, all of them end up on the island after all, and what we're seeing in the island timeline is them years later? Everything that happened, happened again, slightly off from the first time. The only reason our Losties remember the timeline they destroyed is because they were on the island when it happened.
Just saying it could be...
With just 14 eps remaining it is too complicated fot the casual viewer to show how they all returned from Australia to LA in LOST B just to hurry back downunder for various reasons…
@thorsten, well, there's that argument. There's also the argument that at 14 eps left, they shouldn't be introducing main characters, but they've done that, too.
I can only suggest..to help with the confusion, clear it up,,to put away Time ( as Darlton said they would) and replace it with Space. We are flashing between two Space'es..the external and the internal...Hope that helps.
And yes..this indicates that our " HIM" still has some serious problems inside his head...Hes one sick conflicted puppy...assuming its a male,,could be a female as well. Matter of fact...the more I think of it..it should be " HER". The final LOST Twist...??
MEL
Lennon and Dogen?
What about Caesar last year?
Caesar I didn't mind so much since he got shot after about twelve minutes of being on the island :)
Last season was about the circuitous circumstances that led the Oceanic 6 back to the island...
hhhmmm..new character..MIB Locke needs a mate..LOVE..the missing character...HER...yes?
MEL
Amy Lynn
How could they not introduce new characters to explain the goings on of he island. TPTB aren't fans of explaining things through dialog. They like to show you.
@SG, there are more than enough characters already in the canvas, is all I'm saying. At this point, a lot of fans feel too many questions are going to go unanswered because the new characters need a LOT of time to be developed. I, personally, would rather see six Hurley episodes far more than any screen time for Ilana, who so far, is pretty one-note.
I've though for a while now that the tension in the Jacob/MIB relationship may well stem from a missing Love interest and their absence.
Amy Lynn
I disagree. For the story line to progress we need Dogen and others to explain it. I don't need to be invested in a new character to my questions answered.
Are there going to be questions unanswered. Yes of course there are. But I don't believe the important ones will go unanswered.
Would I like to see more Sayid absolutely but that's not oing to move the plot along.
I'm not necessarily knocking Dogen, who seems is important to the plot. I'm more talking about Bram, Ilana, the 316 people, Lennon... i.e, people who get introduced only to die a few episodes later with no impact to the show whatsoever.
Well the show's not over we don't know what the impact will be.:)
If I was Ilana I certainly wouldn't want to lose Bram when I was about ot go into battle.
Besides if they don't kill red shirts they're going to have to kill Hurley. Nobody throw things :)
You know what I'm meaning.
I suspect Ilana has numerous additional notes in her pocket...
Hooray, 2 hours to spare and a first re-watch coming up!
ChrisL
She probably does. But I kind of liked Bram. :)
Amy Lynn said...
No, my problem with Ob's comment was basically that her stance was, "I don't care that the creators of the show think I'm wrong, I will INSIST on being right, and you should all agree with me."
@SG, actually, it DOES mean that OB is wrong.
Can I just go around saying that Jae was murdered, even though Darlton said he committed suicide? Of course not. *rolls eyes*
Amy Lynn -- I was stating the way I interpret the word alternative when used in the concept of TT and parallel/alternate universes. I started that comment by saying that I though Parallel timeline seemed most appropriate (mostly because I don't like the term sideways.)
I don't recall stating anyone "should all agree with me." No one else took the comment that way. If you disagree, fine.
The terms Parallel universe/timeline and Alternate universe/timeline are often used interchangeably when discussing the multiverse or many-worlds construct.
ObFuSc8, I don't think alternate universes are EVER used as synonyms for parallel universes, in sci-fi or elsewhere. It's a misnomer to say that.
Really Amy Lynn, where do you take that from?
ObFuSc8, just um, general knowledge. It's besides the point, though. If the writers say it's sideways, use the correct terms. Thanks, hon.
Amy Lynn, it's not general knowledge, sorry. And it's not besides the point since you chose to type "EVER" and call it a misnomer (which it is not.)
If you want to use the term sideways, fine. I don't like it, and and prefer the term parallel.
Ignorance is bliss, hon.
Not sure why this is so upsetting to you, if you don't like it ignore my comments.
Iliana is on her own now. adrift. She has the most potential to change. It will be interesting to see which lifeboat she ends up in. Assuming a future meet up with the reborn Sayid, that could complete her arc. As the " Bounty Hunter",, the concept of " bounty" may expand with her development.....??
MEL
No, not upset at all, just frustrated with the comments here sometimes. LOST requires you to think a little harder than you are.
Exactly MEL. Bearing in mind that she is there at Jacob's specific request she could change her game any which way now her team is gone.
Amy, easy tiger. If I think harder it will break my brain!
@ChrisL, :) :) :) *
Amy Lynn -- You certainly seem upset. I was expressing my opinion. You didn't agree, fine. But it in no way means I'm not, in your words, "thinking hard".
Again, it is you who stated the 2 terms are not "EVER" use as synonyms and claim it is a misnomer. As I stated I was discussing the term alternate from a multiple worlds standpoint (not just related to LOST). I disagree, so if this is so frustrating for you, find something to back up what you say. Otherwise just ignore it.
I have already stated that I think of the 2 realities we have been shown as parallel, and separate, and that I think both truly exist -- which is why I prefer the term parallel.
Amy..really now..you are starting to foam at the mouth. Whatever is bothering you, please recognize how its effecting.. how you are being perceived. Please let it go.
thanks
MEL
MEL, I just think ObFuSc8 should be more worried about how she/he is being perceived, but um, whatever. :-)
Okay, I probably don't think hard enough either but I have used 'parallel' as a synonym for 'alternative' (universally speaking) on a number of occasions.
But I think that the term 'sideways' has been chosen by the writer because it fits in with the 'theme' of 'direction' being used to tell the stories (flash)back, (flash)forward and now sideways
But it's kind of means all the same in the end doesn't it?
Ilana did Not pull the trigger!! Okay..I see the " guns" of LOST as " NO"..the ultimate negation...no No NNNOOOOOOO! So Bram and buddies said NO to MIB Lockes " You Are Free!" too bad, so sad! BUT..Ilana did not pull the trigger! She did not say NO! Perhaps the Bounty that MIB Locke offers will be hers..??
MEL
Actually there is something to direction as a theme...
What lies beneath?
We have the Island above water and below water. We have the strange ancient smokey dwelling caves beneath the Temple. Jughead buried under Dharmaville. Hell, most of the Dharma stations, especially The Looking Glass...and even beneath the underground Orchid lies the FDW....wait that sends you sideways, backwards and forwards!
And emerging from beneath...as Des discovered, can just send you round in circles.
future...yea...2..
MEL
sideways...besides myself...betwixt and between..me and my shadow..beauty is only skin deep..what?...hand in hand ( lots of handshakes in season 6 so far)...Okay, theres a start on " sideways"...what else?
MEL
Sorry Mel...I was away from the computer. The more I think about sideways I think at some point they will likely unite. Like timber from the same tree they share the same imprint, the same rings, but they have been cut slightly differently. I think they'll be crafted back together to make just one table though. Same wood, different shape.
Sideways...beside...B side (of the record)...
So we all know about the analogy of the record skipping to explain time travel...Lost B is just the other side of the record that completes the album.
That sounds like a good analogy Futureself.
sideways...you gotta tilt your head to see straight.
;-)
It's been a long week folks- longer next week for me I think. Horaay for Friday and thanks for your company. Carlton tweeted after the premier not to think too hard and go watch the Biggest Loser. For me the time is right for mulling and vegging out. I'm going sideways!
Future..Sure..Unification remains the .." Only ONE end", just as being besides one self or betwixt and between, eventually requires a decision. That " decision" appears to be MIB Locke going Home. I suspect his path is going to be littered with bodies. It does not bode well for the Dogon to have busted in half the Symbol of Hope, the Ankh..message from Jake or not. You just don't screw up Hope and not pay for it!!
MEL
Congrats to #815 SG!
We've been back and we've been forward...makes sense that we're going sideways now....an offshoot of a reality. I just accepting this and trust in Darlton to tell us a story that will be understandable in the end.
An analogy too far? 'Sideways' backwards is 'syawedis' which makes me think Sayid....heehee ;)
I was just thinking that we could need to review the Kerr metric theory of concentric shells of adjacent time, that TPTB led us to study in S4 (see LostScience) where Kerr supposed that you could travel from one shell of spacetime to another. This sort of fell under the skipping record analogy as well.
Ha! I know I should be going sideways but I'm all backwards tonight...
Dogon backwards is No God!
LOL. But I think that it's being spelled Dogen, and that there is some historical Zen dude with that name too.
try this maven....there is one TV show called LOST...rite? but you have two Executive Super Primo Producers,,dinklelocker and cruise control..okay? So..thats what we are seeing..one view of LOST that of der Weinershnitzle and one view that of ' 57 Chevy on the boulevard.. Eventually these two views will unite at the Rainbow Drive In and have the best Chili dog ever.... ..... ...
everything with Love
MEL
Amy Lynn said...
MEL, I just think ObFuSc8 should be more worried about how she/he is being perceived, but um, whatever. :-)
Amy Lynn -- I have no problem with the way I am being perceived. We can agree to disagree without being negative.
And congrats SG on post 815! It's snowing here so I did the interpretive LOST dance I promised outside ending with a nice slide down the driveway.
@MEL: Now a Rainbow Drive-In chili dog I can understand! LOL
Just finished watching the first Sky 1 airing of the episode in the UK (in HD)
Didn't pick up much else that I didn't see before, apart from the fact that Sky clipped various bits of dialogue around the advert breaks !
Mrs Zort got confused that after we see Kate escape, a few scenes later she is in the queue for the imigration.
I assume that even in the alternate / parallel / sideways / simultaneous (trying to not upset anyone) version we are jumping around a bit.
@ Capcom....You just had to throw a jughead in my wordplay...I have a loophole though...'Ne' can still mean no or not in old English (or something...I can't pretend to have researched very well) ;)
Oh my... 880 comments!!!!
I've caught up on them and all I have so say is "I totally don't know what the heck is going on!" :)
mungonna said ... "Eventually these two views will unite"
You may be right, perhaps the two timelines are a love rift between Darlton, they may have disagreed and said right I'm writing half of the episode, you write the other half !
Yeah Capcom, as soon as we saw Kerr metric, I immediately thought of rotating black holes and frame dragging!
LOL Future. ;-)
Neat Ob. :-)
lol @Zort "trying to not upset anyone" :-) It's the only way to play it my friend!
Ob, I'd like to have seen that dance/slide. Video next time please. Stay warm!
I was wondering if we'd see Kerr-Newman pop up, but I'm not sure if we ever saw charged particles in Faraday's diagrams.
ChrisL -- the slide was partly because of the bit too stylish for the weather orange patent Enzo boots I had on, but tried to land it in a small pas de chat in the grass, so it turned out OK.
Obfusc8, I think we may have seen something like that in the way of equations, in Dan's notes, I'll check.
Heehee Ob! Interpretive Lost dancing is always best advised bare foot indoors after a glass of wine in my opinion :)
Z..jumping around a bit..can you further detail? I don't kno what you mean by " immigration".
Kate beats crap out of marshall.takes elevator with Sawyer...hides a bit..opens secruity door..is outside..takes escalator ( i was on that very same escalator, which I have to say..to get to the taxis..you actually go down an escalator ..not up. But Kate is Free Will so she always goes up..like she was at start of season 6..out on a limb..great visual metaphor imho)...anyway.. then hides in line..freekin Frogurt!,,and then hijacks the taxi with ..CLAIRE inside. As I remember it Zort.. its all linear.
Did S1 mess with it? Please correct me if wrong.
MEL
@ Capcom - Faraday has notes on Interpretive dance?
:D
I was confused by Mrs Zort's Immigration observation too Mel...I thought they were through all of that ('anything to declare?' 'only a murderer').
LOL Future. X-D
Yes future...Ob8 interpretive dancing was the missing Human factor in all his equations. He died the poorer for it. I hope I don't die before witnessing Ob's interpretive dancing. I did see comixguru's,,which will hold me for a while..but..
MEL
Ah, I'd love to be any part of Faraday's equations! Physics and interpretive dance really brings back those high school days!
Just trying to be 900!
900?
Ob and anyone interested, here are a couple more notes I've made about Dan's notebook in the past comparing them to real theories:
LightCones
Spacetime
Do we think Sayid's Irani passport is an error or real? If it's real does that mean the reset/loop starts before Sayid's birth?
I'm also thinking about Richard's statement to Sun in Season 5 that he saw them all die when she's asking about DI Jin and friends. I'm still trying to figure out what he meant by that.
Wow Capcom..two glasses of wine and lack of a genius beside me to explain in laymans terms left me doggy paddling to the nearest back button on your blog. I'll try to return to it tomorrow.
If the reset works like I think, Sayid will still be born in Iraq in 1972. Seeing as he is still obsessed with Nadia I think it's likely he will still join the Republican Guard. But something will be different. I reckon that 'something' is Kelvin. Kelvin diverted may mean Sayid diverts to Iran for citizenship. But I reckon we're just going to have to sit this one out ;)
Okay,,onward to the 4 digit!,,anyway..Yes, Zort, I get the feel that " they" are writing with a certain style, if you will..like...one writes the straight stuff( jack in airplane for example)..then another..(perhaps only one of an achieved state of mind) writes the same theme or scene..but from the achieved state of mind perspective..Back and forth " they" feed off of each other. uuummm I wouldn't be surprised since...omg. collision at Rainbow Drive In and Kates escalator straight ahead!...since in a way, this be analogous to the " automatic writing" style A. Breton highly suggested. The surreal is in the commonality, the connected aspects.
MEL
Thanks Ob for the interpretive dance. Be careful sliding around in the snow. Is yours sloshy too?
Richard must have seen Jack, Kate, and company flash out of 1977 at the time of the Jughead detonation and mistaken this for their deaths.
Maybe if we ever get a Richard-centric episode, we will see this from his point-of-view.
What would be strange is that, depending on the timeline, Richard would either see the bomb go off followed by the DI building the Swan Station, or he would see the bomb go off followed by (potentially) the sinking of the island.
I'm hoping that Iran means something else, Memphish. Cuz if it means what it means at face value, I'd guess you might be right about that. :-o
Heheh Future, most of all that I know I learned from Carl Sagan's "Cosmos", and Brian Greene's "Elegant Universe", etc. :o)
If Sayid is a Sunni Muslim I can't imagine him becoming a Shiite Iranian. I think the Republican Guard would be Sunni.
memphish -- As far as I know ALTSayid's Iranian passport is real to that timeline (parallel/sideways). This is why I have wondered if the PLT is a separate but parallel universe and not necessarily linked.
From Richard's POV, he saw Jack/Kate/Sawyer etc , head off towards the Swan construction site in 1977. We don't know if he was close enough to actually witness the events at the site but afterwards, they are simply gone, so I have wondered if he simply assumed they were dead?
memphish, I doubt that the Iran thing is a mistake. LAXSayid (not ALTSayid, he is not an alternative version of himself, OMFG) is definitely Iranian. Maybe not by birth!
Here's one idea I had about an Irani passport -- maybe Sayid is the international assassin he was when working for Ben and is traveling under fake papers. But I think that's wrong. The customs form is filled out in Sayid's name and says Iraq. Then they gave him the wrong passport. Oh you Gregg Nations.
Mel, getting back to your point about Dogen busting in half the Ankh (and as you see it a symbol of hope), the Ankh was also seen as symbolic of a Bull's spine. We have the phrase 'as stubborn as a bull' and I think it's not to far a stretch to equate that mantra to our experience of Locke. Snapping the Ankh is symbolic of Locke's downfall. His spine is broken.
But as the great spinal surgeon says...'nothing is irreversible'....
Here's the photo again for anyone interested. I can see at the bottom of Sayid's entry form the date "04 or is it '09? Who's got young eyes and a big screen?
So..the idea of Sayid being reborn..doesn't transcend to both realities?....I think it does. And think about it..if you could " re-invent " your self and was from Iraq..wouldn't you choose to be from some where else?
The relocation or shift of "Honesty" that Sayid represents is on purpose imho...A different truth has been reborn in Sayid...perhaps not as painful?? This is going to be Real Fun.........imho.
MEL
@memphish, sort of looks like 07 to me.
I just noticed another error. On the handwritten customs form Sayid's birthdate is listed as 4/25/72 despite the directions to list it day/month/year.
Looks like it could be Iraq to me, it looks a tiny "q" with a squiggle under it, and not like the "n" above in Oceanic. Does anyone "official" confirm that it's Iran?
Really guys- Sayid being Iranian is very odd- you don't just move over like we might move to Canada from the US. The Shiites and Sunnis still hate each other- Iraq Iran war anyone? They don't even speak Arabic in Iran- it's Farsi. The Shiites in Iraq do feel connected to Iran, but I'm pretty sure "our" Sayid is Sunni, because in Saddams time the ruling class was and he was in Saddams army. Now, I guess anything could happen in the "other" world, but I would say maybe that is a fake passport-I could see Sayid as someone's spy for sure.
Although I see do that it mentions finding it in Iran on the other side. In CAPS, so we'd NOTICE I suppose.
@ Memphish - Probably a common error though. UK and Aussie forms are dd/mm/yy and US and other forms mm/dd/yy. I expect the airline/customs see these errors all the time.
JT, I'm not sure we ever saw if Sayid was Sunni or Shi'a. Though the Sunni were overrepresented within the Iraqi government and probably republican guard, I think just 1/3rd of Iraqi's are Sunni. Most Iranians (over 90%) are Shi'a.
So while Sayid is Iraqi, PTL-Sayid is Iranian. Oh, and I'll have to look at that passport pic again because I think PTL-Sayid's birthdate is different too?
future..truth is always a spy..
MEL
capcom
I was just going to say that it looks like Iraq to me to. It looks like a sloppy q to me. The line has an down then up motion to it.
Yeah, the left definitely says Iraq, right definitely says Iran.
re: Iran vs. Iraq
I agree it looks like the custom form Sayid has filled out says "country of citizenship: Iraq" but clearly Iranian passport. I think that is a question for Gregg Nations. Perhaps whoever filled out the customs form for the prop just wasn't thinking? Or is there something dubious going on here. And ditto what JT was saying about Iran and Iraq- there's a world of difference there, and would be a pretty big deal to all of a sudden be Iranian instead of Iraqi.
Definitely agree that handwritten Country of Origin can be IRAQ and IRAN is on the right page. This cannot be a production error! And it also looks like 04 to be on the bottom. The 4 is similar to the 4 in the birthdate.
Looks to me like both sides of his passport say Iran but he dragged his "n" out and was sloppy. the date is 07 and is crossed like some people do.
@Martyn, yeah I got them hurray ! Now have to see if I can get my dvd player to play dvd's from the UK. But I will figure it out !! Thanks !!!
Ob 8- looked it up a little. The regular army was mostly Shiite it looks like, with the Republican Guard "mainly Sunni" according to what I read. Just saying, if Sayid is Sunni by religious affiliation and Arab by ethnic, he wouldn't easily become a Persian Iranian.
or.... it could be 04 cuz it does look like that too lolol
Fascinating demonstration of subjectivity on the subject..
So..there lies Sayid, supposedly dead,,and Miles can only say.." Nothing". Much like his " it worked", i see him saying,, i'm not picking up anything from dead Sayid,,nothing. Or, Sayid ain't dead,,as everyone else assumes , thank you very much Dogon..Dogen..Mr perhaps you'll enjoy the taste of MIB Lockes fist , more.
Two strikes by my account against Dogen Dude. Busting the Ankh and the mis call on Sayid. Can't wait for the next pitch!
MEL
Lol Mel...Indeed! It certainly has a way of taking you off guard and can seduce faster than a topless sea-soaked Sawyidmond ;)
Sawyidmond
I don't know what that is but I think I like it. ;)
Mel...my last comment was of course in response to Truth.
Dogen is...well...Lost in translation?
Sawyidmond: (noun) emerges from sea half naked. Very hot and complex. Will kill lover if he expects foul play but will carry surplus bags for grieving sisters. Drinks way too much whisky but will remember your phone number after years of neglect.
Future- that sounds like 3 terrific guys!
The 7 in the birthday isn't crossed-so seems the number on the bottom wouldn't be 7? I think the bottom doesn't even look like numbers except for zeros- they're just messing with us.
I was right. I like it.
Ah but Sawyidmond is a double edged sword...
How so Future?
So the Oceanic passport you linked to Amy Lynn says that that actual passport is Iranian, and most likely a production error. ???
Talk about a double edged sword..GEESH!! ..Pregnant Claire stuck in a cab with gun toting Kate!!! Another fine mess you've got us into Kate!!!
MEL
Twinkle said...Good, non-spoilery comment by Damon ... the survivors of Oceanic 815, ... they don’t stop to think, “If we do this in 1977, what else is going to affected by this?”
Wow! That's a serious spin! What will we see --- was Hurley's comment about carpooling to prevent global warming a foreshadow of what's to come! ;-)
Scoutpost said...
I just wonder if the flash-sideways created a sort of reincarnation of our Losties. Each making some kind of progression.
I don't understand, or pretend to/have the energy to, understand all the science re: ATLs/Flashes/2 Realities... but I think this is all about progress and fits in really great with Twinkle's "circuitius cycle" comments... and
Zort70 said...
Whether that means we will see events played out multiple times until someone gets everything in the right order I don't know.
I think we'll also see the same thing-- a character in a similar situation (AKA Jack giving CPR to Charlie, then Sayid.. the scenes for me were sooo similar) , not just until things are in the "right" order--- but until a key issue that drives the character to action is resolved or overcome. I see this in light of MELs hope in a "unified" man comment... each character is becoming more and more unified in him/herself through repeated exposure to the same situations/weaknesses...in some ways maybe training for war... to be at their best, most unified self when the time comes...
Memphish and Dark Tower fans... I want to know if you are right in the end about Jack's neck!
Long post... but not too bad for trying to wrap my head around 900+ comments!
@JT - my original allusion to Sawyidmond was in reference to Mel's comments about truth always being a spy, and hence the seduction of truth in a 007 capacity with tinges of Lost Hunks in the role of Bond. The double-edged sword of truth is that although you may be seduced by the, well, truthfulness of it all, the overall experience may be bitter and unpleasant. Truth is always the winner in the end but hte road to truth can be painful.
And, sorry, I tried, but my html tags wouldn't work... wish post above was easier to discern quotes from comments1
JT, I agree with what you're saying about Sayid's most likely being ethnically Arab and probably a Sunni muslim. But that does not mean PTL-Sayid has to be an Iraqi sunni muslim.
The birth date differs on the customs form differs too -- unless the 4/25/72 is a Charlotte like birthdate mistake, PTL-Sayid's birthdate differs from Sayid's by 4-5 years. Lostedia lists 1967, but I'm not entirely sure where they got that.
However, from One of Them:
SAYID: I was 23 years old when the Americans came to my country. I was a good man. I was a soldier. And when they left, I was something different.
SG -- the snow here is sloshy where the road/pavement is warm.
Another...fascinating comparison there...Jack reviving Charlie ( failure, self defeatism)...and Jack failing to revive Sayid ,,truth. So much for Mr Logic and Reason. But his record has been pretty poor all along.
MEL
@Mel - Kate as Stan Laurel? Who do you see as Hardy?
Capcom -- nice blog posts light cones and Minkowski diagrams. In Eddington–Finkelstein coordinate systems the singularity at the Schwarzchild radius is a coordinate singularity and not a true (absolute) one. Because of this Eddington–Finkelstein coordinates can be used to predict what happens inside of the Schwazchild radius.
All light-like geodesics within the Schwarzchild radius (in EF coordinate systems) are ingoing (hence the term black hole).
Faraday's space-time diagram always struck me as being similar to a Minkowski diagram (possibly with added lines of simultaneity), but the axes used are odd.
My favorite Minkowski line; I was on a ferris wheel..But thats a circle and not a straight line, which I don't believe it was intended to be..Beuller?
MEL
Re: they Sayid passport discussion i posted in the middle of .... I hope its not a production error... but also have to admit, without this board, it would have probably been unnoticed by me!
Re: Jack and "issue" to work out... you see it more obviously in his interactions with Kate and Sawyer when there's trouble now... he refuses to do anything and is more apt to let someone else lead... because he recognized his own record. Not saying he's on the right path now... obviously old habits die hard as he took over having to drop the bomb to "fix' things.... but maybe subtle hint of "progress" in ceasing to do CPR on Sayid...
I could be totally off base with the working out individual issues --- but as I read other comments it seemed to gain a little more momentum for me --- only time and a whole lot more scenes will tell! ;-)
thorsten said...
Yes, both timelines are real… the kicker will be how they converge after Jack healed John!
And, I'm wondering if we'll see a similar scene, to either the Jack/Locke post car crash... or....orrrrrr.... instead of healing Sarah, in "circuitis cycles" would it be Locke (minus romance!)
Ok... maybe that's taking it too far... ;-) But I second thorsten that we'll see Jack operate on Locke!
Another,,well Yes. Jack did say.. I it was my fault..I didn't shoot him, but it was my fault.." There is a certain amount of responsibility being taken there,,which is a good step I suppose. It transits over well to the Airport scene of Jack extending himself to John.
MEL
@MEL, I thought Jack's acceptance of responsibility was a call back to Sawyer/Juliet. Sawyer sure as heck didn't kill her, but he was the reason she stayed on the island, so he's responsible.
MEL- Re: Jack, Ironically you gotta be a man of faith to let someone else lead (ex. not have control)--- and in some ways also faith, to withstand whatever consequence that might have come from making that statement (though, to me, that blame taking was borderline old school Jack, staying in control, being protective... hard call).
So... maybe that shows he's made such a leap of faith? but is that progress?
Ironic that he says Locke would be laughing as Jack puts the shoes in the coffin... d'ya think Flocke was laughing...all the way to the bank (aka a body)? Come to think of it... Did Eloise (or ben) knowingly assist the MIB by suggesting the body? the shoes? go on the plane?
Anyway..the issue theory might work out retrospectively too... as far as I've heard talk of redemption on here....Shannon's selfishness, Charlie's drug use... some people were quicker learners than others! ;-)
I hope I'm not sounding purgatoryish--- I never liked that theory--- but more a matter of preparation for tasks to come, a training of sorts, or to borrow your phrase MEL, becoming a more "unified" man (If I'm using that in the manner you intended)
Amy..no doubt that " responsibility" is and will be a re-occurring theme thru-out season 6, not that its new. Think of Sawyer and Michael blaming each other on the bamboo for Walts kidnapping.
Jack was in a precarious situation. He didn't have to volunteer that it was his fault. That he went out on the limb with no idea of the consequences with these strange Temple-iestas..is a bit of a shock. Yes, a Faith in the unknown was there I suppose. I liked it. But then he gets butt headed again with ..lets step outside for a talk guy..So Jack is still vacillating. As I said previously,,and concur with you Another..there is still some major issues to be resolved before any of these are .." well" or made whole.
Shall be interesting.
MEL
Ahhh... major issues... half the fun of the show! ;-)
Romance, redemption, journey to whole... yet something for the scientific minded as well... brilliant.
Here's to issues and their resolution- regardless of whether any of our theories are correct!!
...and Oh!!,,,have you ever considered how similar Purgatory is to a ..insane asylum?...both are holding tanks for poor souls waiting to be released upon a judgment. Consider.. all of LOST as reality perceived by a deemed " crazy person".
What we the audience have come to learn then....well.. read the last several chapters of A. Breton's " Nadja"..and you'll get it. No, read the whole book.
MEL
HA! I read a quick bit on Amazon... not that I know anything about the book except that the two names mentioned in the excerpt are Hugo and Juliette.
And oh good night that you say.....
"Consider.. all of LOST as reality perceived by a deemed " crazy person""
I know you mean perception within the show, but I had to laugh... a friend and I just had a conversation about the very very very fine line between brilliance and deviance! Mostly around brilliant writers.... if they weren't writing this stuff down, WHAT would they be doing with all that in their heads! ;-)
Thanks for the book tip!
Another..yea..and thats just for starters..it doesn't spoil anything for me to say,, that Nadja ends with an account of a plane disappearing over an Island...crazy huh?
MEL
Scoutpost asked about the whispers in the tunnels and I listened into that… sounds like Will they turn left or right? and remember they are only children around 48 minutes of LA X…
Thanks for all the good wishes last night, managed my speech without major hickups and the audience laught in the right places (500 people, OMG) ;))
Their raggy appearance, Cindy's funky hairdo, their ancient defenses and need for a translator....
Anyone else think there's something very Ewoky about the templites?
500 folk? I'd have run! But brilliant Thorsten! Well done - they really dug the puppet show :)
Excellent Thorsten - well done!
Thanks for the whispers translation, we're about to watch again so I'm going to be listening out.
OK, first post over here, so be gentle. Especially since 900+ comments is too much of a read, so I skimmed. Forgive me if I cover anything that's already been done. Anyway, here's my take on things:
1. Parallel timelines from the '77 explosion. My theory is that both will converge, to one (momentous) decision. Or will be affected by the outcome of 2.
2. The whole MIB / Jacob dance has been done time and again. I'm assuming the ashes that keep them safe are Jacob's ashes, from other times he has died. Once the "war" is resolved, Jacob will be resurrected, and the parallel timeline will converge.
3. Jacob's temple - they like red, don't they?
4. Smokey lives under the path into the temple, or can at least access that grate thingy. By "getting home", does he just want back in the temple?
5. Loved the Dharma shark in the intro to ep 1.
6. Alpert - "nice to see you out of those chains" - so I'm guessing a prisoner on the Black Rock, but why a prisoner, and why hasn't MIB seen him since?
7. MIB as a brother / God cast out of his home. This is more Like Loki and Thor than Jacob & Esau - do I need to be reading Norse mythology now too?
I can't wait for episode 3!
Hello Ben- I don't understand ATLs or Alt Realities, but given Jacob's comment that "it only ends once"- your way of phrasing #1 makes sense to me.
Ob and BlueHeron. Re: Richard saying he saw them all die, do you think we could be looking at even more "circuitus events" /ATLs (?) that we know of at present? Maybe our Losties/DI converts did die in the purge, and/or the Incident... my money would be on the purge somehow. (Freaked out by that on many levels) Maybe they're taken back in by the DI even after the incident?
I'm just getting the sawyidmond character. Priceless ladies!
Loki and Thor sounds good to me, Ben!
Hey Ben- I just mentioned to you on ARGS that we were over here- but of course you found it yourself!
Good for you Thorsten-I use to do some stage things in school long ago- sure do remember stage fright. Congrats on your success.
"remember they are just children..."-That sure sounds like observation by a group that considers itself more advanced. maybe the group that MIB and Jacob come from.
@JT - more advanced and very, very old...
"It only ends once" - the process of killing Jacob, or one side "winning" has happened many times, through time. With Jacob being killed, MIB didn't win, as events had already been set in place to ensure what we saw never happened. So while a loophole was found, Jacob worked out how to close it - this time. I think we will see the two timelines converge, or one be wiped clean, as the season progresses. I think from what we have seen so far, that in timeline B (where everyone lands safely) events will play themselves out that our Losties will end up together one way or another.
Hi Ben
Welcome
I like your number 2 that they could be Jacob’s ashes and he will resurrect after the time line converge. Anything that comes before I progress.
I’m not sure if home for MIB is the temple or a different time line.
That is a good question. Why hasn’t MIB seen Richard for such a long time? What happened after Richard arrived? Was MIB imprisoned ?
Reading Norse mythology ? Who knows this is Lost but it probably wouldn’t hurt. lol
I've always thought of Ben as a child. He's in an adult body but alot of his actions are child like.
As an example his jealously of Juliet. The childlike giddiness when he made her dinner.
I've always thought the group that Eko and Jin hid from were childlike adults. The person dragging the teddy bear didn't appear to me as a child but an adult. But that's just my opinion.
I don't know if I'm into Jacob being killed multiple times anymore...now I think THAT part, has only happened once (but stand ready to be proven wrong!) Though Ben, what you said, "the process of" Jacob being killed may be a totally different story. I'm wondering just as much if Jacob's being killed/MIB actually finding the loophole is really the true "Incident" and the "final ac" before the "final" war (it only ends once) comes.
I like the idea of one timeline/set of events wipes the other out. I keep also thinking of Eloise explaining "course correction" to Des--- you can stop your destiny from happening for only so long. I am prepared to see Juliette and Sawyer sipping mochas. ;-)
I find it funny to use periods to punctuate thoughts that are more question than answer!
@SG, that's an interesting theory about Ben's childlike state. He certainly has some very immature tendencies, mixed with this brilliant ability to lie believably. He's certainly made some very adult decisions, but they've all been selfish ones.
Ok I'm going to go out on a limb her because I know nobody else looks at this scene this way.
When Ben asks Jacob what about me? I never looked at it as Jacob blowing Ben off when he said what about you?
I looked at it as a disappointed father asking his child to look at what he'd done. To basicly look within and answer that question him self. To be honest with himself. But again just my opinion.
SG- I'll toss something else your way to think on that scene. The story of the prodigal son--the older dutiful son asks his father essentially the same question... "You've not even killed a fatted calf for me... but HIM (the younger son that returned after sinning).... you throw a party."...Perhaps, Ben doesn't know all that WAS done for him? Maybe the death of Alex, the tumor, etc.. were exercises in building his faith in Jacob's control the final outcome? (Yes, I come from a Christian POV, though I don't pretend to have that all right either!)
Could we see Ben as the dutiful son? MIB as a prodigal exile who, though he wants to come home, unwilling to on the father's terms? And Jacob somehow the father figure?
Know that's a bit of a stretch.. but that's what your take on the scene brought to mind...
AnotherLisa
That's a pretty good thought. There are many biblical images in Lost.
I kind of think the point of the two timelines as a storytelling device - whatever we want to call them and whereever they first diverge - will be that you can't escape destiny.
If it's Locke's destiny to be healed - he'll be healed whether it's by a magic island or a miracle surgeon.
If it's Kate's destiny to deliver Claire's baby - she'll deliver that baby and develop a tie to him in either timeline. (Unless of course Claire turns out not to be pregnant in this one which will blow that theory out of the water.)
If it's Jack's destiny to save Charlie when he's not breathing - he'll do it in both timelines.
By watching both timelines unfold, we'll see which parts of their lives were destiny and which parts were by their own choice.
If it happens in both worlds, that tends to imply that point was part of their destiny.
I don't believe LOST will turn out to be a Biblical tale- but I can usually get a handle on some of it throughout the S1-5 from that perspective, and universal constructs of good/evil that seem to transcend into different religions/mythologies- but never as strongly as these first 2 epis. (even the overt Eko/Claire baptism stuff)
My mythology and science backgrounds are pretty weak. It's one of the reasons I appreciate the reads here from others with such different pockets of knowledge!!
Morning all! Still rainy here in LA, but nothing like the east coast blizzard! Hope everyone there is warm and cozy!
Hi, Ben, glad you made the journey over to TLC.
I don't know about Jacob dying multiple times and the ash being his remains. I think MIB finally finding the loophole after saying do you know how much I want to kill you. He didn't say "again". It's still puzzling what the ash is. Maybe it's volcanic ash being from the interior/origins of the island? There seems to be a good supply of it.
@Sayidsgirl: Yes, definitely Ben is very childlike in some of his actions, especially in his relationship with Juliet (that dinner date and him saying "You're mine). But I still say that Jacob totally used Ben...out manipulating him...in his battle with MIB.
lost 2010, that make alot of sense and I like that a lot. I will have to watch it again this weekend and see if I can figure where the parallel lines differ besides the obvious.
Lost 2010- I couldn't have said it better than your post above me. Taxi cab delivery?
@Lost2010: That makes perfect sense to me, too. Things can change but remain the same!
I hope that Claire is still pregnant in LAXtime. Mostly because Darlton has said that they didn't change the archetypes. Kate is still the fugitive, Jack the doctor, etc. That would, I hope, make Claire the pregnant girl.
AnotherLisa
Yes, I agree with you I don'think Lost will turn out to be a biblical tale either.
Maladylis
Are you snowed in? We got 8'' in Ohio. You must have gotten several feet. Stay warm and safe.
maven
It's possible. I guess will have to agree to disagree. ;)
I"m also not completely convince that MIB is Smokey. We only have his word on it.He disappeared and then Smokey arrived from a different direction. MIB could have summoned him. Although it does seem unlikely that they would trick us this late in the game.
Also before anyone says that Carlton confirmed it on Jimmy Kimmel. All Carlton said was that fLockerevealed he was the smoke monster on the show. Carlton didn't say fLocke was the smoke monster. I know you could argue that logic. But they are crafty on how they word things. :)
SG- I also have had the idea about Jacob and Ben that it is a sense of disappointment. Throughout I wondered if Jacob is like a teacher who cannot give you the answers to the exam, but hopes you will get it right. The way they play it though, the actor does not give it away- perhaps Jacob has no compassion at all for his "game pieces".
Had a thought about Hurley's red shirt. Maybe it means he will become part of the Temple culture, as they feature red in their dress and Hurley was directed to go to the Temple by Jacob.
Zort- I like your idea about pulling the plug in the pool and the island sinking! Don't know if applies- but a great image.
@SG, actually, on the podcast, Darlton said that LOCKE was the Smoke monster, LOL.
I am the queen of typos. :) Hope you guys can decipher my post.
Amy Lynn
I haven't listened to the podcast yet. So I'll reserve judgement until I do.
@SG - I haven't listened to the podcast yet either but right after Bram's team shoot at Flocke he disappears, Smokey appears, destroys Bram and co, disappears, and then Flocke walks in and says 'I'm sorry you had to see me like that'. I'd say that's pretty conclusive evidence of Flocke being Smokey ;)
Sorry SG...just realised I hadn't read your reasons for doubting this properly (trying to disarm wee terrorists and write simultaneously leaves me with a serious lack of attention). It would certainly have been more convincing for you if he had changed into Smokey in front of everyone but then the few extra seconds of scrambling around wondering where he'd gone allowed us to gauge Ben's reaction and the dreaded clickty-click (here comes the dreaded alligator to take Hook's other hand).
first question I would have asked if I were THAT Ben would have been "why do you sound like a printer from the 1980's?"
@Ben, LOL. I think one of the reasons I never thought Smokey was too scary was because I recognized the tick of the NYC taxi that they use as his voice.
Future, also remember- fLocke also disappeared when Smokey appeared to Ben as Alex. Gives even more credibility....?
SG- I'm not the Lisa you asked... but we have snow up to mid thigh here in the Northeast! Just dug out the car! Expecting more on Tuesday!
He may very well be Smokey and most likely is. I'm just saying i'm not completely convinced and there is room for doubt. :)
AnotherLisa
You're in the North East too? You guys always get hammered. Stay safe.
Yep... about 20+ inches- not sure what midweek holds, but I know more is coming.
Re: smokey (and just about everything else)... there's ALWAYS for doubt.... till there's not... and aren't the writers awfully good at keeping us right on that line till they are ready to cross it! ;-)
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