On tonight's episode, Faraday discloses what he knows about the island, beginning a time of reckoning.
Where has Dan been? How did he get all of the information found in his notebook? Who are his parents and was he born on the island?
Time for the Geek to spill his secrets!
Wednesday, April 29, 2009
The Variable - Season 5, Episode 14
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313 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 313 of 313If I knew I were going to shoot my son in his future I'd let him stay up all night and eat donuts and french fries and ice cream every day instead of making him learn theoretical physics at a breakneck pace.
My prediction for Season 6
No spoilers other than last night's preview in that prediction BTW.
memphish said...
Daniel asking Hawking if he went to the Island would she be proud of him was about one of the saddest things I've ever seen.I know! It was painful watching dysfunction in action.
I don't think Hawking actually subscribes to the "whatever happened, happens" even though she spouted it right and left. I think her pushing Dan was because 1) she knew he needed to get as far as he could in his short life and/or 2) if he worked hard enough he might find a way around what happened.
It was very moving that when Dan was shot his first (and last) thought was about how hard it must have been for his mother all those years knowing she would shoot him. At least that's how it looked to me.
Also - and I'll repeat it again and again - the Incident according to the blast door map happens in 1985. The Swan problem that causes the button to be created is not the Incident. Faraday called it the Accident.
On second thought, and after reading something else, this might be one of those continuity errors and might be The Incident after all.
Why is Daniel named Faraday if Charles is Widmore and Ellie Hawking?
So Locke sacrificed Boone to the Island; Ben sacrificed Alex; Hawking sacrificed Daniel. Chang and Charlotte's dad did not sacrifice Charlotte and Miles but got them off the Island. Any other sacrifices that the Island has demanded?
I read all of last nights wonderful comments at 4am before work.I won't be able to catch up till tomorrow, or Sat.
I just wanted to say that Thoroughly Modern Ellie was so concerned about Desmonds fate.Whereas before she said that the only important thing he would ever do in his life would be to push the button.Why isn't the Island through with him,and what else does he need to do.?
By the by, I learned recently of this scifi author, Robert James Saywer.
Do we know where TPTB got the name "Sawyer" from? Have people already suggested it was from this author?
memphish
I was wondering that last night about Daniel's name being Faraday.
Miles has a different last name too. But it could be his mother's last name.
She'd really have to hate him to change her son's last name.
Him meaning her husband not Miles.
A thought I had was that Faraday was actually adopted by Eloise. Do we have any proof that he was biologically hers? The Others are interested in genius kids (Walt) so maybe they took one. IMO that could solve some of the timeline difficulties and the last name issue. Another twist could be that Widmore fathered him, deserted him, and Eloise took him in.
Regardless, a parent can legally name their child anything they want. If my son named Daniel Faraday showed up in 1977, then when I had my baby I'd name him that. No other reason needed.
Believe me the "legally name your child anything you want" got tossed around a lot before our babies were born. Top on the list were Luke Skywalker and Leah Skywalker.
BTW does anyone else find it funny that anytime someone comes into the others camp that Richard comes out of a tent with a cup in his hand?
Yes! He must have a high need for hydration! And he always seems the least busy.
Ben would have been in the camp during the shooting.
Does anyone know a place I can see screencaps of next weeks episode without finding out the episode title.
There's one scene I'd like to get a better look at. That is if that section was capped.
That should be next weeks episode's promo.
I don't want to see caps of the episode.
Wellll, DarkUFO has that Sayidsgirl, but the title is there. I don't think that the title really gives away much at all, especially not coupled with the images shown in that promo.
However, if you want to explain the image you want to look at, I can isolate that one, and give you that link.
capcom
I'd like to see the "room" that Jack and the others are in. There are 4 people. I'm trying to figure out who one of them is. I'm pretty sure on the other 3.
I'm trying to be vague in case there's people who don't watch the promo's.
I hope you know what I mean.
OK just a sec.....
...oh man, I can't even do that, the title is underneath the image. If I had one of those photo site accounts I'd put it there for you, but I don't, sorry.
That's ok thanks for trying.
FWIW, none of the images at DarkUFO in any type of room in the promo is clear enough to get a face of the Losties. Only Juliet with her long light hair and red shirt is clear to see well.
If you are talking about the "dark" room, no one can be seen clearly, unfortunately. Maybe someone will post some soon that are better and won't have the title on them. Blacky, maybe????? :o)
Ok thanks for the info.
i think faraday got his name from widmore, when widmore named Locke jeremy bentham he wanted it to be ironic or meaningful or whatever. Since a Faraday Cage is supposed to trap radiation or electromagnatism, i think he named him faraday as a nod to his overall purpose. I also think that charlotte, miles and frank were on the frieghter to "help" it get to the island much like the ajira plane. Widmore being the owner of oceanic pulled frank from the flight in order to have an ace in the whole towards getting back, a person the island wasn't done with.
Did eloise raise dan in the states, why else does he have an american accent?
If she wanted to avert dan getting killed all she would have had to do is tell jack or dan himself that she would shoot him someday in 1977. So it seems the incident is very important for Eloise to keep intact in the timeline. I think the answer as to whether the orchid was ever successfully used for controlled time travel is probably no. I think that the incident happened when they had the swan and orchid finally operational at the same time and that squashed any orchid time travel after that. So basically there are only two ways to affect the timeline on the island, either by leaving at bearings that send you to a slightly different or by turning the donkey wheel. This makes me wonder if widmore honestly wanted keamy to catch Ben and change everything or he just sent keamy to prod Ben into turning the donkey wheel and thus sending the lb's time tripping and setting this whole time loop into motion, perhaps killing alex was widmore's sole tweak to the timeline just to stick it to Ben?
If you look at the timeline it's entirely possible that Jack didn't go to 1977 the first time around. Miles and Dan could have gotten he evacuation done by talking to candle without the others.
The Incident couldn't have been that bad, considering roger, horace and others all seemed to live through it fine for 15 more years until the purge.
I wonder how Ben is gonna make it back into the Dharma fold after or before the incident?
I wonder if perhaps Jack can save Daniel? Otherwise i can't see him making that film we saw this summer with dr. chang.
I think that the incident or whatever Dan described is going to imbue Eloise and Widmore with knowledge of the future. Hawkings could be lying about not knowing what's going to happen next in 2007, but widmore seems to know past that point with his knowledge of the war, unless widmore was referring to the war in 1977.
If dan's journal had some info in it it was certainly not complete, he added stuff to it periodically. He definitely didn't have all his equations in it because Desmond had to give him the settings to transport the rat's mind. Which seems to show it may have been blank.
I wonder if dan's mind started improving as soon as he decided to take the frieghter and righted his destiny like locke and his legs, otherwise he wouldn't seem even funtional enough to ride the frieghter for a few days and remember what he was doing. " Faraday can't even save himself" or whatever doc ray said last season has a whole new persceptive after last night, although he was probably referring to his mental condition, it's interesting in light of dan not being able to save his own life.
If i had to guess i think dan had to get the billy pilgrim unstuck sickness in order to fill in the blanks in his journal and thus he went mad. I think it's interesting that they have never shown or referred to desmond's family, the reason he could be so special is he is the one who was injected into the timeline. Conceivably kelvin could have turned the fail safe key the first time around.
I like that naming idea 2Costa.
I think Dan was raised in Essex, Massachusetts. It's the same house when he's a kid as when he gets ready in 2004 to go to the Island. That's the only explanation I have for his accent. I still want to know where and when he was born though.
I really really hope time has in fact been looping and proven to be unchangeable as an explanation for Eloise acting the way we saw her act in this episode. I just don't get her fatalistic attitude towards her child and the Island.
From what I remember. I think the only thing we know about Desmond's family is that his dad died and he had to take care of his brothers. Not sure what happened to his mom.
That's what he was telling Widmore when he went to ask for Penny's hand.
I need to re-watch that episode.
Ok I just checked. Des said he didn't graduate universary because he had to look after his 3 brothers after his father....
Widmore cuts him off. So I was wrong when I said his father died.
But I alway wondered what happened.
crazy penny never knew that dan faraday, who was the reason they were in LA, was her half-brother
My notes for what they're worth. .
They just do this to torture me don't they? I thought for just a second that Desmond might not make it. . . sigh. . .but he just keeps on keeping on. He's like the song that just won't end.
So maybe the reason it was so bad that Charles had a wife and daughter OFF the island is that he already had a wife and son ON the island.
I see a 'Hurley and Miles' to the rescue moment coming at the LaFleur house.
Too much shooting. . .they're going to bust somebody's window.
twinkle - I always thought they got 'Sawyer' from 'Tom Sawyer' the most famous southern con artist of all time.
Good point about Wid's possible "second family" Lost2010. Ew.
BTW, with all these circular family ties coming to light, let's hope that Des and Penny aren't somehow brother and sister. I hope that TPTB wouldn't do that to us...George Lucas doing it was traumatic enough for me. :-p
This one Sayidsgirl?
darkroompic
Did anybody else think it was funny that Juliet was packing tons of clothes and Sawyer was packing food? You can tell which one of them got stuck on the beach eating mangos and sushi for a month can't you?
Promo comment. . .possible spoiler. . .
I think that's Jack, Kate, Eloise, and Sayid in the dark room, based on their clothes but it's hard to see the faces.
Yes that's the one.
Thanks 2010.
Promo pic comment.
I agree it's Jack, Sayid and Kate but I'm sure the other one (on the left) is Ellie. I know Ellie is on the bank with Sayid when Jack dives under the water. But I think the other one might be the person who was there when Jack comes up from the water. Stll not sure though who it is. For me anyway.
Thanks again 2010.
end promo comment.
lol I don't know why I left off the lost part of your name lost2010. Sorry.
Oh phooey
That should say I'm not sure the other one is *******
lol oh man. I give up.
I saved your pic and it has a name on it which I assume is the title of the episode.
I'll try to forget it. lol
Sorry for all the posts in a row.
lost2010 now that I've enlarged it I agree with you on who it is.
Thanks again.
Oh, actually, no that's not the title of the episode. Just the name I gave the picture - sorry for scaring you.
lol Oh cool thanks. I'm still safe so far. ;)
Be careful on Facebook if you don't want to know the title. I saw it there this morning.
Thanks memphish
I usually stay away from facebook starting on Tuesday because Ellen usually posts the title then.
But if it's on there now I guess I'm off until after the show Thursday.
Morning all: I know the title of the finale. Actually, I think it's pretty cathartic to know it. :)
Based, on previous finales, I feel confident making the following Finale Predictions:
Kate will kiss somebody.
Ben will get hit.
Sawyer will call someone a nickname.
Jack will tell somebody what to do.
Hurley will ask a question no one answers.
Somebody will get wet. . .(think it was Vincent the dog in the first one)
Oh yeah, something will blow up or get shot at. . .can't have a finale without that.
(Oh yeah, the spoiler I mentioned seeing a while back was the episode title. And the scene we saw last night so I guess it wasn't from the finale after all.)
lol lost2010 looks like you've got the finale pretty much nailed. ;)
Sawyer got wet in the first finale too when the rudder fell off the raft and Jin too near the very end.
Yes, I'm very happy about the finale title as well.
So, we've got these people getting wet in the finales.
Season 1 :
Vincent, Sawyer, Jin
Season 2:
Jack, Sawyer, and Sayid when they swam out to meet Des's boat???
Season 3:
Hmmm, Jack when Juliet slobbered all over him? Coming up dry on that one.
Season 4:
Sawyer when he jumped from the chopper.
Season 5:
Who will get wet? Enquiring minds want to know. . .
Season 3 -- Charlie, Desmond and Mikhail
Prediction for Season 5 -- Ben, no wait he's already been wet this season. Locke.
Thanks Memphish!
Updated List:
Season 1 :
Vincent, Sawyer, Jin
Season 2:
Jack, Sawyer, and Sayid when they swam out to meet Des's boat???
Season 3:
Charlie, Desmond, and Mikhail
Season 4:
Sawyer when he jumped from the chopper.
Season 5:
Who will get wet? Enquiring minds want to know. . .
----------------------
So, I have Memphish down for Locke. . .
Any other takers? LOL
A wet Hurley in his Dharma jumpsuit! Now that's a sight!
Don't forget Hurley cannon-balling into the ocean, was that S-3 or S-4?
Oh yeah, and Kate swimming in the lagoon to get her case. S-1?
S-5, Ben getting dunked with the bloody nose at the pier.
Oops, just remembered, Boone and Jack trying to save whomever...S1?
Claire getting saved by Des...S3?
One more...are you counting any of the wet peeps from the tailsection who landed in the ocean? Or, rain wetness? :o) G'nite.
Oh yes! Anybody that gets wet counts. Even a good splash by a passing car. . .if such a thing has ever happened on Lost.
:)
I'm reading Vozzek's recap and he's talking about Eloise Hawking, Destiny Proctor and suggests that she's keeping people on paths (Daniel, Desmond) because she's been bamboozled into that role. And I agree. Do you think the Others have a pre-Hydra Room 23? Is it in the Temple?
You really think? I get the idea that she and Widmore know what would happen if things don't go exactly like they went last time. And that every time in Daniel's life that she wanted to just let him live his life, Widmore stepped in and reminded her of the consequences of things not playing out exactly like they did the first time. . .
I just don't really think Widmore and Ellie are good guys. . .
:)
I don't think they're good either. I think this whole Island/Jacob worship is Jim Jones level misguided. I understand that TPTB won't tell us what the big deal is because then it's over, but why these people don't reveal what is so important I'll shoot my own son for it is getting annoying.
Weekend topic for discussion -- what would have happened had Flight 815 landed as it should have and would the Losties truly have preferred that?
Jack -- back to a life stalking his ex-wife, guilt over dad's death and failure to recreate the miraculous ability to save people like he did Sarah
Kate -- jail
Sawyer -- maybe jail, maybe just more conning and avoiding Cassidy and Clementine
Locke -- back to the box company and having to face Randy's jerkitude over the failed attempt to walkabout, but might have had an opportunity to get back with Helen until the aneurysm killed her
Sayid -- chance to find Nadia and live happily ever after
Sun and Jin -- on the run from her father with a strained, possibly unfixable marriage on their hands and infertility
Charlie -- heroine addiction until it killed him
Claire -- gives up Aaron for adoption and then what (assuming there really was a couple); could have gone back to Australia and reunite with her mum
Hurley -- rich and still haunted by the numbers, but restored relationship with dad
Shannon -- looking for love in all the wrong places
Boone -- working for mom; saving Shannon
Michael and Walt -- chance to have a father/son relationship, though have to overcome Michael's not wanting him
Rose and Bernard -- Rose will die of cancer soon
Ana Lucia -- reunite with her mom
Libby -- unknown
Eko -- why was he leaving Australia? I don't remember, but presumably looking for another fake life given the fake passport
Juliet -- trying to find a way off the Island and back to sister
Ben -- dies of spine tumor, or possibly loses control of Island to leave Island and have it fixed
Desmond -- kills self from loneliness in Hatch; electromagnetism destroys Island and thus Ben, Juliet, Others?
So most of the people come out better if 815 crashes, but Sayid in particular does not. The Island was no good for him.
Yeah, I almost get the idea that Jack just wants to not have met Kate by this point. LOL
Sayid would definitely be better off if it didn't crash.
It's possible that AARON would be better off if it didn't crash. He'd be adopted by this nice family in L.A. and save himself a lot of drama. Of course, with his luck he'd be adopted by a reconciled Jack and Sarah Shepherd and be no better off at all. :)
notes on rewatching:
could Juliet have an ulterior motive for giving Kate the code to the fence? To get Kate away from Sawyer?
Why would a janitor have the key to a gun cabinet? Does he ever really have to clean it? wouldn't that be a security issue?
The variables aren't all that variable. They think they're changing the past, but in actuality they are doing what they always did - Sayid shot Ben, Daniel warned Charlotte, Eloise shot Daniel, Jack and Kate will create the incident, etc. Daniel probably warned Charlotte the first time for the same reason - he thought he could change the past.
Catching up on some Doc Jensen recaps and just ran across this in his recap of "Some Like It Hoth". It's from a reader - Tood Birmingham:
"Like Hoth in The Empire Strikes Back, the Island may be the hidden rebel base of our heroes. This season may end with the discovery of the Island by whatever represents the Empire."
I found that idea intriguing. Who would comprise "The Empire"? Is that who Ilana actually works for?
That's funny; I really thought Randy worked at Mr. Cluck's after the box factory.
Is it plausible that Ellie had just received Dan's journal and read it, and that's why she approached him with such dread and told him no more piano playing?
Wow. But if this is the case, who sent it to her, and why did they wait so long?
I really hope Dan's not dead, but if he is I'll accept it. I'm just along for the ride that TPTB are taking us on, anyway.
Any thoughts on why Richard says to Dan that Ellie's not there, yet clearly she was there?
I was thinking this about Eloise in the kitchen/parlor: What if Eloise in the parlor suddenly got the memory of shooting Dan, the same way that Des suddenly got the memory that Dan sent him in the future/present. Also, the fact that Eloise is played by the same actress in the parlor and on the island this week, might also mean something (but I don't know what), besides the fact that she is supposed to be nearly the same age in both scenes. ???
That's all I've got. :o)
FYI, check out Ms.Wendy's version of a popular poem tailored to the vicious circle that is/was poor Dan's life, it's funny.
http://mswendy.wordpress.com/
Great poem Ms. Wendy. Thanks for the link Capcom.
Warning -- total stream of consciouness ramble to follow.
I'm having a hard time with Dan and Eloise's timelines. I wish we knew Dan and Penny's ages. Dan with braces is probably 10-12 given what I know about when a dentist would suggest getting braces. A normal kid would go to college for 4 years from age 18-22, then graduate school to get a PhD in Physics in I don't know 2-6 years depending on the dissertation probably. We know that Dan had received his PhD before 1996 because of Desmond's timeline. Let's assume that the absolutely crazy youngest Dan could be in 1996 is 20, then Dan would be born in 1975/6. So there would be an infant/toddler Dan in the Others camp when Ellie shoots Dan who has aged by that point to be 31/32.
This kind of makes sense to me because one would think that a woman who just shot her son and yet is caring for her toddler son would then flee the Island, travel to Massachusetts and raise that son with an American accent and different name from her own. I'm willing to guess that Eloise's maiden name is actually Faraday, but that at some point after she leaves Widmore behind she marries a Mr. Hawking. Or maybe Hawking is just her false identity like Jeremy Bentham that she gave Desmond.
Seems to me Penny could also arguably be 31/32 on the young end and so maybe to add insult to injury Eloise finds out about Widmore's infidelity at the same time she shoots her son. Maybe she even initially flees the Island with the intent of trying to prevent this from happening, but I think what we're witnessing in that first braces-filled flashback is Eloise after someone has gotten to her and convinced her that the past cannot be changed so she may as well facilitate Daniel's path as much as possible. Jacob maybe? Richard? That would be cool to find out.
Great ideas Memphish. I really like your idea that baby Dan might be there when she shoots older Dan, yowza. :-(
Maybe Eloise left because of what Dan (or now Jack and Kate) warned them of. Will we find out that some DI and some Hostiles both left for that reason?
But I would REALLY like to know how seemingly Western-type peeps like Widmore and Eloise ended up being indiginous peoples on a remote island, if they aren't the descendants of the ancient peoples.
Hey 2Costa;
A belated HAPPY BIRHRDAY to you.
I hope you are still celebrating, since you have the whole weekend.
This weeks episode played with my emotions.It streched them like Plastic Man.
Sacrificing ones son (or daughter) for the end game,must weigh on a persons soul.
Mommy Eloise had raised her son Daniel from birth.Daddy Charles told Dan that they had never met.
No wonder she slapped him when he said that Dan was his son too.
I love that Lost is not a superficial, silly sit-com.
It is a dramatic presentation of real life;wrapped in beautiful surroundings,and tied with a bow of suspended belief. .It makes us think.It makes us feel.It makes our hearts beat faster.
It makes me want to go there.
Happy belated Birthday 2costa!
Oh no, I missed 2costa's day?!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY 2COSTA!!! *<|:o)8
(Hope the caps make up for forgetting!)
I meant to say a bow of suspended disbelief,but sometimes I don't believe what I've just seen.
Also,a belated happy BIRTHDAY.Sorry 2Costa.
If you were wondering what Bernard has been doing with all his free time, check out Jorge's blog;
http://dispatchesfromtheisland.blogspot.com/
Happy Belated 2Costa! Hope it was a great birthday.
Just got back from a weekend get-a-way, so a belated Happy Birthday to 2costa!
Happy late birthday 2-costa!
Heard an interesting idea on a podcast. Isn't it odd that the Island doesn't seem to have any interest in the offspring of 2 Island inhabitants? If Charles and Ellie were leaders of sorts picked by the Island why hasn't the Island laid claim to Daniel? I have no answer, but it does strike me as odd, especially in light of all the ancient Egypt stuff and the like which thrives on familial succession.
i was watching "the economist" and " the constant" last night and i noticed a few things
1. When locke was the leader of his half of the 815'ers, he had them live in the barracks, just as he had criticized Ben for this season. Perhaps Keamy's massacre in the barracks taught john that it wasn't a safe place to stage his people.
2. Daniel and Desmond definitely didn't recognize each other before Desmond went to the freighter and started his time jumping.\
3. Dan and Desmond's interactions definitely slightly changed things, because Desmond now knew penny's new address and phone number, but when he got out of the military and Jail after that in the first iteration of the time line. He didn't know her new address as evidenced by widmore intercepting all his letters from the military and jail. Since Penny never moved or changed her number from 1996 until 2004, it seems to definitely show a change. Interesting that penny would remember that desmond was gonna call her in 8 yrs, considering she interacted with him in 2001 when he got out of jail, which was plum in the middle of that 8 years.
4. I have noticed the proxy theme more and more. Boone was originally locke's proxy, getting killed by the plane rather then him. I beleive charlie may have been Desmonds proxy in the whole looking glass scenario. Both cases may be that boone or charlie were inserted into the timeline to make sure locke and desmond would live to fight the good fight. I think the 815'ers may have been the proxies for the others, hiding in the temple, when they got killed in the barracks by Keamy.
5. i think that when desmond smiled walking away from penny's house in 1996 it was very important. He smiled because he knew that in 2004 he got ahold of Penny from the frieghter. This caused 2004 Desmond to suddenly stop time tripping, but for that small moment he was living 2004 ans 1996 at the same time. I think this is the key to Dan's journal. If he was going through similar things from experimenting on himself, he could have easily penned his journal while his consciousness was in two times at once.
6. I think it was interesting that after desmond hooked him up with the numbers to successfully time warp eloise Desmond asked what to do next and Dan said" why, i thought i sent you back here to help me", in the episode itself it seemed that he was helping desmond, but knowing what we know now desmond was really helping Dan as well. Dan's rocket experiment was the key to accelerating his work, By sending himself the right frequency and fluctuation Dan spread up the process towards his own time tripping and journal writing, which is the basis for the variables we are seeing now.
7. Eloise knowing about the guy dying with the red shoes, definitely couldn't be in Dan's journal, so there has to be another source of Hawkings foreknowledge of the time line, probably the incident is my best guess.
8. When widmore was bidding on the black rock journal, the auctioneer stressed that nobody had read the journal outside of the hanso family. Perhaps the journal is the source of some of widmore's precognition of events. All it would take is one of the black rockers time skipping around time like the lb's and then writing about it. The journal may also explain why dharma co opted a lot of the island themes into the dharma equipment and philosophy, like the hieroglyphs on the 108 clock. I would be curios to see screen caps of the other people bidding on the journal, they were intersting looking dudes. 400,000 pounds doesn't really seem like a lot for such a document. I also think that right after this scene we get another clue that desmond was slightly changing things with dan. After the auction in the bathroom, widmore gives him penny's address and then leaves. Desmond turns off the water then time skips, when he flashes back the water is still running and spilling all over the floor.
Who has Dan's journal at this point in 1977? Is it on Dan's person or with Jack and Kate?
My guess would be Dan's journal is in his pack. Which is probably with Jack and Kate.
I keep hearing and reading people speculate that the reason Hawking knows the future is she has Dan's journal, but I'm not convinced she does have it if she has Dan's body. Well only 2 more days and we'll know for sure.
i agree memphis there is no way dan's journal accounts for all of eloise's precog knowledge. Jack has the journal in the preview.
the black rock ledger could have a lot of info like what lies in the shadow of the statue, so I wonder who the other bidders were.
I was just looking at some screen caps and Dan has his pack over his shoulder when he goes into the hostiles camp.
So I guess it's possible Ellie has his journal. But I don't think she gets her future knowledge from it.
Hi all,
Good episode with the wrong conclusion !
I have a couple of thoughts that might not make much sense, but when does anything on this show :-)
I've got a feeling that the "loop" of 815 crashing has happened and therefore will not change no matter how many changes are made in the past.
What will be changed is the outcome of the war, and the variables are the ones that will allow this to happen.
To me the variables seem to be the Oceanic 6, maybe getting them all back to the island (including Sun) in the 1970's is the key to winning the war for one side or the other. Perhaps they all have a number designation and are the variables in the Valenzetti equation.
Eloise knew that Dan could not be saved, and maybe tried to save him before when going through the loop, but time course corrected and killed him anyway. Maybe her shooting him was the outcome she was most comfortable with, or at least the one she could accept.
I should add that I still think that a large part of the story we have already seen has been played out multiple times, and something like the accident / incident in the future (i.e. post 316 landing) has always reset things.
So the variables are the ones that can change the post 316 activity.
Hi guys! I'm a LOST fan from Greece, and I recently found out about your great blog! I think your audio podcasts are very interesting and helpful for the understanding of the show. I have some question for you about that: How often do you make a podcast? After every show, every month, or what? And do you upload the audio file in specific dates, or whenever it happens that you make a podcast? I am asking because there doesn't seem to be a podcast about "The Variable", and I would like to hear your opinions before the season finale! Thank you so much in advance :)
Hi guys! I'm a LOST fan from Greece, and I recently found out about your great blog! I think your audio podcasts are very interesting and helpful for the understanding of the show. I have some question for you about that: How often do you make a podcast? After every show, every month, or what? And do you upload the audio file in specific dates, or whenever it happens that you make a podcast? I am asking because there doesn't seem to be a podcast about "The Variable", and I would like to hear your opinions before the season finale! Thank you so much in advance :)
vg.92 - Glad to hear from you, welcome to the blog.
David and the Goog usually try to release a podcast a couple of days after a new episode airs.
However this isn't a fixed schedule so it can be a bit "variable" (sorry couldn't resist the pun)
By the way I'm not officially conected with the blog or the podcast, just a big fan of both.
Hey, vg.92! welcome to TLC. :)
David and Steve usually do a podcast after every episode, and I generally get an e-mail on Mondays or Tuesdays to post the new audio file.
I don't see an audio file for a podcast on The Variable over at Talkshoe, but I don't think that necessarily means they aren't doing one. Just keep checking back!
All right, I was jonesing for some Lost today, and I peeked at a tiny spoiler. No hints, but I will say, this week's episode is going to be AWESOME.
Mellisa - it is so difficult for me not to go looking for information, I'm torn by my desire to know and my desire to find out as the program makers want me to.
I've been really good at resisting, but we're so close to the end, I just needed a little fix. :)
I rewatched The Variable last night, and that got me all hyped up for the next episode!
So I've been thinking about Eloise and Dan and the parallels between what happened with them and God sending Jesus to die, and there's 2 key things missing from Eloise and Dan's situation that breaks down that parallel.
The first is the reason for the sacrifice. God made it clear from the day Adam and Eve ate the fruit that the reason the Messiah would come and die was to save humanity from its sins and provide eternal reconciliation between God and his people. We still have no idea what it is that Eloise is trying to make happen or prevent that would indicate to us that her sacrifice of Dan could be seen as a sacrifice instead of a cold, heartless act.
The second thing missing is the intimate relationship between parent and child demonstrated repeatedly in the Gospel accounts of Jesus' life in contrast to Eloise's hard-hearted pushing of her child toward his fate. And as part of that there's a lack of knowledge on Dan's part as to his fate whereas Jesus always knew what he was being called on to do and give up. Jesus was given the choice and opportunity to obey even to obey in dying whereas Dan wasn't.
Instead maybe Eloise and Dan is more the situation of Abraham and Isaac where God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac with no explanation for why God would ask this of Abraham other than as a test of his obedience. Has some god (Jacob, Richard, the Island) set a similar test for Eloise? The parallels here also break down as God provided a substitute for Isaac (first in the form of a ram, then in Jesus).
And I guess that's why this story of Dan and Eloise is so hard to take on an emotional level. It reminds us of these cosmic child sacrifices, but the end is different. The child is in fact sacrificed which flies in the face of our (or at least my) Judeo-Christian mindset. Until we can see what it is Eloise thinks she is accomplishing by this sacrifice, it's hard to judge her anyway but harshly. And in any event her attitude toward Dan in pushing him to this end will still rank her up in the in the LOST Parent Hall of Infamy even if the end turns out to be noble.
memphish - Eloise and Dan seem to fit more into a Greek-style mythos. The Greek gods were always asking people to sacrifice loved ones.
The one that sticks in my mind is Agamemnon sacrificing his daughter Iphigenia to appease Artemis before he leaves for Troy.
Melissa_Lossa, Zort70 thanks a lot for your answers, it's really nice to become a member of this LEGENDARY (sorry, this is from another show) community. Looking forward to listen the new podcast, as I'm more of a "listening" than a "reading" guy! Thanks a lot again, congratulations for this awsome community you've achieved to create :D
Welcome vg92! Looking forward to your input. :-)
Interesting about the Greek stories Melissa.
Memphish, Eloise's pushing of Dan is also similar to the thought that Mary fully understood Jesus' ablilites by the time of the Cana wedding, where she asked him to turn the water in to wine for the celebration, therefore being instrumental in the act of his first recorded miracle. There's a train of thought that she might have felt that she wanted to "strongly" encouraged that part of his gifts and purpose, as only a mother can. :o) But that's just a between-the-lines interpretation.
Capcom thnx alot :)
Melissa (are you Greek or just cultured and educated?) I had some similar thoughts, about the connections of the ancient greek myths with the whole philosophy of LOST, which I'm sure is a complicated mix of most of the world's philosophies (Egyptian/Greek myths etc). Religion has also to do with LOST, but I hope that at the end we're not told that the whole series, what happens in the island, has to do exclusively with metaphysical phenomena, and there's not even a slight portion of logic in the whole story... I want something more convincing than mythology and science fiction, damn it!
Sorry if my poor english was too annoying guys, it's been a long time since I had my last english lesson :/
Vagelis :)
Lots of crossover between old myths and stories from the world's religions. They all came from the Black Sea rim before it flooded. Thus the preponderance of flood myths. Also, my personal favorite for the source of the Atlantis legend.
LOST taps into all of these almost without trying, because they're ingrained into our creative minds. Did everyone read my blog post last week on Daniel as he relates to Moses? Because of course everyone should. ;)
vg.92 - Your English is perfect compared to my Greek.
I quite often think that the best stories borrow from the familiar. As long as they don't steal completely and have an original slant then it's ok.
Babylon 5 borrowed quite a bit from Lord of the Rings and was the richer for it.
with all of your biblical references, maybe Dan is more of a john the baptist. He also had to sacrifice his life, but it was to pave the way for the big picture of his cousin Jesus and his even bigger future sacrifice.
on re watching "the variable" i noticed a couple things...
1. Dan must not totally believe in his H-bomb plan working otherwise, he wouldn't have had to bother to warn Chang to evacuate the island and tell Charlotte to leave and not come back. In a way it almost seemed like Dan may have had an inkling that he would die to complete the time line, but convincing jack and Kate to try his plan was the next link in the chain of the time line. I think it is very possible that dan's mind started to go all billy pilgrim again after he left the island in 1977. He may have gained insights into the future for his journal during this period. How else could he know when and where Chang was going to be or exactly how everything is supposed to play out?
2. I think Eloise is uncertain of the future in 2007 because Dan's visit to Desmond in the hatch changed the course of things and Desmond consequently got shot by Ben,because he sought out Eloise in 2007, and this didn't happen in the first iteration of the time line,not because the extent of her knowledge from Daniel may have been exhausted. I think both widmore and hawkings have knowledge of events beyond 2007 from the incident or Jacob or whatever, but Dan's journal being the source of her knowledge is a red herring.
Something else occurred to me that maybe we haven't noticed. I think that if Magnus Hanso was around during the black rock, that there are only two possibilities. One, Hanso was part of the others, and left or got out word with the ledger about the island or that he has always had a group that was rivals with the others on the island, since the crash of the black rock. This would mean that the hostiles vs. "dharma" feud has been brewing way longer then the 1960's. The way that widmore and hawkings either work with or use dharma/hanso resources off island seems to show that the war may be between the hostiles and dharma, The interesting thing is that if the shadows are "dharma/hanso" that the statue or time travel occurred way back to when the black rock people were alive. It reminds me of twin peaks, which damon was a huge fan of, where they explored the white lodge and the black lodge through out the series. One of the profound statements towards the end of the series of in the movie was that the white lodge and the black lodge are "one in the same", and i think that the hostiles and dharma, might be more one in the same then we think, maybe having an inter mural rivalry sort of like ben and widmore?
I've just been rewatching as well and in the scene where Dan gets driven to the Orchid by Miles, he seems to know exactly when Chang is going to arrive, almost as if he has been there before and noted down the time.
LOL guys. :o)
Vg92, if you are into the metaphysical vs. everything else on Lost, Bigmouth posted his thoughts on the argument of whether Lost is metaphysical or postmodern: http://eyemsick.blogspot.com
And speaking of referencing, I just found/created a Lost link to Geronimo last night: http://perditascientia.blogspot.com
I'll read your post Kyle!
I agree Zort, and Dan also says that in four hours, the bad thing will happen. So he knows to the hour when it will occur. :-o
Speaking of bad things, what exactly are the bad things that happened when the O6 left? The time skipping? Wasn't that Ben's fault? And anything bad that happens now, wouldn't that be because they came back? I guess you could argue that bad things were less likely to happen if they were integrated into the DI with the James Gang, in 1974, rather than so awkwardly in 1977.
Capcom, also in the episode Widmore talks about the Freckage and says that the passengers of 815 are on the island.
We know that most of the survivors are no more, due to all sorts of reasons.
vg.92 - I think your English is excellent!
I'm not Greek, but my minor in college was Classical Studies, so I have MANY mythology and history classes under my belt.
Cassandra of Troy is my favorite literary character, so I know a lot of the stories and characters that surround her (like Agamemnon).
And agreed - Dan has a lot of very detailed knowledge of future events. He had a lot of island knowledge before he got to the island, too (remember the secondary protocal?). How did he know all of that? Both his mother and Widmore tell him about the island as if they don't expect him to know anything about it, although I suppose that could be chalked up to his memory loss.
Maybe Dan's created his own mini-Lamppost for predicting when certain events occur like the accidents at the Orchid and then at the Swan.
vg.92 - you're in luck!
Episode 64 of the podcast - The Variable - is here, and that means...
NEW POST!
That's great Melissa Lossa! Thanks a lot :D
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