Ben Linus: Menacing in Cargo Pants.
In tonight's episode, Ben feels the need to atone for his past sins, so he tries to summon the smoke monster to pass judgment.
We're guessing this is not going to go well, for anyone involved.
Wednesday, April 08, 2009
Dead is Dead - Season 5, Episode 12
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 297 of 297I always thought Kate and Juliet were safe in the banyon tree because in some cultures it's considered sacred.
Danielle pulled them into the Banyon tree on the way to the Black Rock and told them they would be safe there.
Banyon Tree
OT: The Unusuals wasn't bad. Harold Perrinau had the best storyline by far. . .I might have to catch it again. . .did anybody else give it a try?
2Costa, I disagree. I don't think Ben's bio dad was other than Roger "Workman" Linus.
meh. but that's just me.
oh, and I believe in Jacob. He's not Smokey...but was to who or what they are, I dunno.
and Kyle(TBP), deciphering 2Costas posts are half the fun!
thanx amused :), kyle is just salty because he thinks ben still doesn't know about the swan station
Roger probably really is Ben's dad, I still think that emily linus was either on the island before or her remains were brought there. I dont know if anyone has mentioned it,but perhaps the smoke and whatever assumes human form are different things, before Alex appeared to ben all the smoke seemed to go back in the grate. Same thing with Yemi, he didn't just morph from yemi into the smoke before our eyes, yemi dissappeared and then the smoke entered.
LOCKE: Hell, Ben, if you don't wanna take me, maybe someone else will. I'll just go and ask Richard...
BEN: Why would Richard take you? He doesn't know where Jacob is. He doesn't talk to Jacob...
LOCKE: Well, who talks to him?
BEN: I do.
LOCKE: So you're the only one who talks to him?
BEN: That's right!
LOCKE: And no one else knows where he is?
BEN: I was born here on this Island. I'm one of the last that was. Most of these people you see—I brought them here. So Jacob talks to me, John. He tells me what to do, trusts me.
LOCKE: And no one else has ever seen him?
BEN: That's right.
Although a lot of this is lies, i wonder how richard could say jacob said to save Ben if richard doesn't talk to him. I guess, Ben could contend that he wasn't truly born until the island healed him. Maybe it was a case of richard saying jacob wanted it in front of all the others just to force widmores hand?
RICHARD: Ben? So you wanna tell me what you're doing in the middle of the jungle all by yourself?
BEN: I left home, and...I'm looking for my Mom.
RICHARD: You think she's out here?
BEN: You wouldn't believe me.
RICHARD: Try me.
BEN: She's dead.
RICHARD: Did she die here, on the Island?
BEN: No. When I was a baby.
RICHARD: Did you see her, out here, Ben, in the jungle?
BEN: She talked to me.
RICHARD: What did she say?
BEN: That I couldn't come with her. She said it wasn't time yet.
seems strange that richard would ask if she died on the island, seems to relate to smokey or whatever assuming human form after someone dies on the island
Also when young Ben met sayid, he had only met richard once in the jungle, when he met richard he only told him his name was Ben. When kate and Sawyer bring Ben to richard, he now knows Ben's last name is Linus as well
I have a feeling that many of us fans are going to want to tie Darlton to a sofa and GET SOME ANSWERS when Lost is done.
I really would love to know what that original conversation was between Damon and JJ Abrams that was the spark of the idea for Lost in the first place. Will we ever know?
Thanks for posting that Ben dialogue, 2costa. It does show the change in the person from young to old Ben. We know the exchange between Locke and Ben were full of lies.
Happy Easter to all my TLC friends.
Happy Easter everyone.
Re: Smokey judging Kate and Juliet; that I can buy, 2costa and I hope that's what it is. It's just that other times people hid in the trunks as well, and now that I've seen Smokey go thru the holes, that just doesn't hold up anymore. :-D
P.S. Happy Easter Locos! xo
Amused, according to legend, apparently the spark of Lost came from someone else entirely, who ABC took the idea from and then gave it to D&C and they ran with it. Up until last season the original guy still got his name in the credits, but I haven't looked for it this season yet. I'll try to look the story up on Lostpedia and post the link (if someone else doesn't do it before me) :-)
The origin of Lost: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Nowhere
Sorry I'm late;Happy Birthday to Lost2010,andJGZ2350.Any cake left?
It is usually hard for me to tell whether Ben is lying,half-truthing,faking that he knows the truth,or is actually telling the truth. He is so good at it.
Maybe the Island gives you Mojo points,like a gamer gets extra lives.
I would really like to see Richard Alperts backstory.(way,way back).
I am going to watch The Unusuals now,(I saw the first 5 minutes;liked it.)
Happy Easter.
Happy Early Easter! 2 hours to go (where I am).
Upon rewatch I was happily surprised that I liked the episode better. A huge part of my disappointment on original viewing was my terrible TV reception at the time. While the recording still included no HD and a skipping soundtrack, because I knew what to expect it was less annoying. And the other reason I enjoyed the episode much more was that I could focus on what TPTB had decided the story should be instead of on what I wanted the story to be. If they had just picked up in the Temple I would have loved this episode on first viewing, but on second viewing since I knew they would not I was willing to accept that.
For all the "answers" this episode gave me in terms of gap filling it raised a lot more questions for me about the Others and especially about Jacob. Sorry for the exceedingly long post this will turn out to be, but here goes.
Where do you think Charles had been on his horse? Off Island? Somewhere else on Island? Why does the DI think Richard, not Charles is the leader?
The Others seem to have a cut and dry rule that if you kill one of "us" you pay with your life. Eye for an eye. I think that's why Charles and Ben don't ever just kill each other. And that's why Juliet jumped through time. Because she killed Pickett and was marked, she is no longer one of them and the rules no longer apply to her.
But it makes me wonder about Ben killing Locke. Will the Others forgive or excuse Ben of this killing and perhaps brand him like Juliet, or is Locke not one of them so it doesn't matter that Ben killed him?
I'm also confused by Ilana and her intentions. We have Locke and Ben, the protectors of the Island, but neither seems to be on notice about her (unlike Ben with the freighter). Why isn't the Island warning them about her?
I don't get why Alex's death is the only thing Smokey judged Ben for. Was it simply because it was the only thing he felt guilty about? Of course, it really judged him for his treatment of John, not Alex, so maybe Smokey's smarter than I'm giving him credit for. Still doesn't explain to me in the least the no chance for repentance killing of the pilot and the French chick, not to mention its interaction with Juliet and Kate.
The whole Jacob thing is so confusing. Do you think Richard spoke to Jacob about the young dying Ben? Or was Richard lying to Widmore? What about Ben confronting Widmore about baby Alex? Is anyone really talking to Jacob? Maybe that is what actually gives the leaders power in this group, the discovery that there is no Jacob. The person who finds this out holds it as a threat over Richard and over the old leader.
Why would the Others use the sub to banish Charles instead of their normal method of travel?
Does the fact that the Island let Alex die prove that Ben did not indeed know the will of the Island as Widmore claimed? Was Keamy the course correction the Island had been waiting for for 16 years? And is it that misjudgment of the Island's will that Ben should be banished for? Is that the real reason Charles is banished, that is, they fail to know/do the Island's will?
Where did Locke go when Ben went to flush Smokey?
Does Ben know anything about Christian?
Has Widmore himself actually tried to return to the Island and been thwarted? His people have seemed to find it with some regularity. And why did the Island permit Ben to return if it won't let Widmore?
The scene with Penny and Charlie got to me again. Even when I knew exactly what was happening. And luckily the tornado of judgment was less hokey the second time around.
Thanks Capcom. I hadn't read that before about NoWhere.
Happy Easter, LoCos! (I know I'm repeating myself!)
I just saw the end of Man Behind the Curtain, and Ben says to John that he hasn't always been completely truthful...such as he wasn't really born on the Island. I didn't remember that Ben ever admitted that lie, but he did--just before he shot John and let him fall into the Dharma mass grave. So Ben knows he isn't a native.
hm...
Enjoy the day friends!
well im torn as to whether alex dying was the islands will 16 years removed. Under widmore's view, she could die at 80 years old and he would say "see ben she was supposed to die,the island commanded it". I think Ben may have been judged for loving something more than the island, he passed the test for choosing the island over Alex. There's no way the island wanted Alex dead as a baby, she did so much pivotal stuff towards the path they are on now. She freed claire/aaron from the others. She was pivotal in the karl story line. She gave locke a gun before his jacob meeting, she helped kate on hydra island, among a other things, that would changed the way the time flashes played out
i think the way ben's torch went out when smokey came out and then reignited after it left was much like the lantern in jacob's cabin, but when ghost alex came out his torch was fine may point to ghost alex not being smokey. Maybe the alex we saw was really alex. Just as she gave locke that gun, she may now have knowledge of how important john is to the island and that could be the reason for her harsh treatment of ben. I'm starting to seriously think that it isn't smokey that takes the form of dead people from the island. If smokey can appear as a real as day hologram type of thing why does he show you the past in cheesy cgi?Why would the smoke seemingly completely dissappear before or after you see the dead person?
i also wonder if when locke first saw smokey and it was beautiful if it changed him like it changed rouseau's crew. That might explain why locke almost always chooses the island over anything else. Like john Letting boone die or when he killed naomi without a second thought or let dan go on his death march into the jungle and couldn't care less. I used to think that after locke killed naomi he let jack make the call to the frieghter because he couldn't kill jack out of loyalty, but now i think locke "couldn't" kill jack in the same way he couldn't kill young widmore, because the island wouldn't let him. If you look at it this way the only time locke let senimentality get n the way of the island's will was not telling sun to come back tot he island.
I thought I do some searching for Easter Eggs on LOST today! LOL
Hi Maven;
I found some on Jorge's Blog.http://dispatchesfromtheisland.blogspot.com/
US 1
Pirates 0
i wonder if widmore stocked the freighter with people that have island pasts so it would have a better chance of reaching the island like ajira 316. Frank, dan, charlotte, and maybe miles all have island ties. Micheal(kevin johnson) on the freighter may have been just the extra island mojo they needed to actually get there.
I hope everyone had a great Easter!
In case you haven't been watching Doc Jensen's Totally LOST videos, first, you should they are really good, but second, you should definitely watch the one this week where they interview the actor who plays young Ben. It's a great interview. I, of course, don't watch them until after the episodes air. The teasers, especially are very spoilery.
I know, Memphish. That kid is so cool. I love how he loves the show. Jo started a fan page for him on Facebook.
Just thought I'd post first before reading any conmments.
I loved this episode, one of my favourites of all time I think.
Ben on the back foot, Widmore on the island (Alan Dale with hair !), Penny and Desmond not dead. A mystery or two (Whats in the shadow of the statue) and some answers.
Whats not to love, I'll go look through the comments and see !
Must add, before reading the other comments in anger, that I loved the humour in the episode, Ben and Locke are a great double act and their roles were definitely reversed in this episode
I am confused about the drainhole to summon the smoke monster, but I can go with it for now.
Having read the other comments I haven't got much more to add but I am slightly confused about Ceasers role on the show. He seemed to be introduced as a new regular character but after a handful of lines and not much contribution Ben blows him away without a thought.
So how is Locke going to get Sun and Jin back together ? Is there another turn of the wheel involved ?
If Smokey has to tell Ben not to kill Locke again, does that mean Locke CAN die again? Could you kill Christian?
How do you guys get yourselves to rewatch episodes you don't like? I just can't do it. . .I get over to abc's page and just end up rewatching the Season 1 finale again. LOL
Lost2010: I don't have that problem...I like every episode! LOL
Good point, Memphish. Some are thinking that Locke is Smokey (or at least like Christian now). Why would Alex/Smokey want to get Ben to promise that he won't kill Locke is that is true? Unless you're only entitled to one reincarnation per life.
Yeah, it's weird. I'd think if I died once and came back to life I was bullet proof. ;-)
It dawns on me that the Swan counter has hieroglyphics which must tie into building a DI house around the hieroglyphic covered door and Paul's ankh. I'd kind of forgotten about the Swan counter.
Ben should have known not to turn his back on Desmond after shooting him since Mrs. H had told them the Island wasn't done with Desmond.
The hieroglyphs on the count down timer in the swan translated into underworld. If I remember correctly.
Which has to do with death and the journey to resurrection. If you are judged to be worthty to continue through the underworld.
My husband actually gave my sister The Egyptian Book of the Dead for Christmas a couple of years ago. I thought to myself, you could have gotten that for me. lol
There's been alot of Egyptian references since season 2. (Maybe before that hasn't been noticed)
ABC has put up an Island timeline feature. It does not clarify when the Purge is and when Widmore's coming and going, some of my key questions. And it will make you never want to see Angels and Demons because it makes you close an ad for it after about every 4 clicks. Still, it is interesting.
I already don't want to see Angels and Demons. :o)
Thanks for the link memphish.
I'll go check it out.
You know they're not going to give you the answers you really want. ;)
Especially not on ABC.com. They have the worst show websites.
I heard an interesting theory on a podcast today. They think Ilana's crew may work for Mrs. Hawking. After all she knew what flight to put them on. Not sure I buy it, but still fun to speculate about. I also wonder how/why the 316ers will take the outriggers to the 815ers beach instead of to Dharmaville like Sun, Lapidus, Ben and Locke or random shoreline like Kate, Sawyer and Karl.
Memphish thank's for the tip on those videos.
And Maven,I never met an episode I didn't like.
Now that you mention that Memphish, and now that Ceasar's dead, it's got to be Ilana's troop shooting at the LBs on their brief encounter in the canoes.
Sawyer's a Daddy...move over Clementine!
I also have a feeling Ilana and her crew work for Widmore / Hawking and as they knew the plane was going to land on the island they made sure their people were on the island. That metal container looked like a plane cargo container and was with them on the flight.
I think this is part of the war that keeps getting mentioned. "What is in the shadow of the statue" is this groups method of finding out who is on their side.
After this weeks episode the other theory I have on why Widmore can't go back to the island is not so much that he can't find it, but that if he does find it and return that the others / the smoke monster will kill him instantly for breaking the rules.
He has to get other people to kill everyone on the island and disable smokey before he / they can return.
Charles and Eloise = Charise ?
I always thought it was Widmore chasing Sayid with the poison darts. But Ben wanted him on the island so she could be Ben's person.
Do you think Widmore wants Sayid on the island? Or do you think having him arrested was just an excuse to get Ilana on the plane?
Because I'm still up in the air about who she works for.
Interesting question Sayid'sgirl, because if Widmore knows that Ben was shot by Sayid and that Ben being healed by the island led to Widmore being banished, would he have tried to prevent them from going back ?
I suppose it depends on whether things on the island, or in general, can be changed by the time travel we have seen. It could be that the future can be changed, but not the established past.
However if there is a fixed end point to the island in the future then everything we have seen so far can be classed as the past and cannot be changed.
Or if it can be changed it can only be changed so that the end result is the same, like Desmonds time flashes that prevented Charlies death up to a certain point.
It goes back to Hurley and Miles' discussion about time travel and whether things can happen or have already happened.
I'm fairly convinced that Ilana is part of Widmores people who are setting up a new group on the island to rival / take over the existing Others.
What should we call them ?
Widmores Others = Wothers
Ricahrds Others = Rothers
As to who was chasing Sayid with the darts I think it was Ben trying to manipulate him onto the plane somehow.
zort said:
However if there is a fixed end point to the island in the future then everything we have seen so far can be classed as the past and cannot be changed.This is what I'm thinking that at this point everything that has happened to the LBs and the O6 now in 1977 is the past including what happened in 2004 on island before the time jumps and up to 2007 off island for the O6.
Or if it can be changed it can only be changed so that the end result is the same, like Desmonds time flashes that prevented Charlies death up to a certain point.I agree that this probably has something to do with it.
Most people think Ben was behind the people with the darts and are probably right, but I'm going to stick with it being Widmore until I"m poven wrong. ;)
If Ilana is with Widmore I vote Wothers.
I don't know why there isn't a space between zort's quote and my thoughts. There was when I posted it.
I copied and posted it again and it still didn't space. hmmm
I like your ideas Zort.
And with your mention of an island endpoint, I wonder if eventually the island will get blown up from the war, and the ending will be the loss to the earth with it gone, and loss to mankind (if it's revealed that the island performs some natural beneficial function) that it's gone. Queue sighs from whomever is left. The End. :o)
Capcom, yes I think you are probably right that the island is stopping something from happening, although it is that beneficial function that I am not sure about.
Is it the end of mankind the island is preventing that the Valenzeti Equation has predicted ?
If it is Lockes others then - Lothers
or just for the comedy aspect if it is Ben's others - Bothers
i bet it was horace's house that is built over smokeys drain, which ben lives in in 2004
I'm wondering if Ilana's group is in fact there to blow up Jughead now. If so, I think she's a Wother because it seems to me Widmore is content with the idea that if he can't have the Island no one can. Getting Locke back on it before it blows wipes out his claim as well as Ben.
I like that idea Memphish.
And I also really like the new names for the Other factions for when things devide up. That will really make discussing things easier in the future when the skirmish begins. :o)
Sorry, typos. :-p
I finally got some pics taken of my Lost fan quilt. I haven't completely finished yet, still doing the hand quilting, but you can see pics here if you like...
@Memphish - I like the term "Wothers!" I agree with Capcom, having different names for the different factions would be quite helpful in discussions!
xxoo
Nice job Ellen.
Nice Ellen! :-D
Thanks, Ladies! I am really enjoying working on this quilt...although it has been quite a challenge!
xxoo
I've posted over at your blog, Ellen! Great job!
Ellen it looks great so far.
Keamy was to evict Ben,and do some major Island cleansing.
The Science team would have re-decorated;fixing the things that make the Island dangerous Smoke Monster,deadly gas,etc.
Widmore could have then moved in,or at least run the place; off Island, with his people.
Now Widmore has to go with Plan B.
Ilana seems to be working for the new Widmore Initiative.
FYI, Ms.Wendy is celebrating a year of blogging in Lost Bunnyland in case anyone wants to give her some congrats, say HI, etc. She posts some great stuff, chats, etc. :-)
http://mswendy.wordpress.com
Happy Lost Day!
Really good, gruesome episode of Fringe last night. Made be think of Dr. Moureau Capcom. I think that show and I are finally in sync. Walter's a hoot.
HAPPY LOST DAY!
Hope tonights episode is as good as the promos make it look.
Happy Lost Day.
Do you think there is anything to Smoked Alex's words "I will hunt you down and destroy you",instead of kill you? I know That Ben told Charles that they both knew he couldn't kill him.(Widmore).Is it just a rule in a bizzaro game,or something else?
TAV -- I'm still hoping that whatever happened to Young Ben, innocence stealing and all means that Ben has to be destroyed in a different manner other than mere killing. The use of destroy vs. kill makes me think Smokey Alex will blot out his memory, etc. Salting the earth kind of thing.
Anyone have any ideas about Locke and the focus on the shoes last week? Jay and Jack keep making some sort of point about the shoes and whether or not Locke is dead or alive, but I'm not sure what the shoes have to do with it.
I found it weird that he keeps taking them off and putting them back on.
He had them off when they took the outrigger, then sat on the dock to put them back on.
I don't know what it means if anything, but I did find it odd.
sayid'sgirl, read Doc's preview column. It's spoiler-free, and the last two pages get into some really awesome Norse mythology that speaks to the shoe issue.
Ok. Thanks Kyle.
Happy Lost day, everyone!
Happy Lost Day to all! Looking forward to some of Miles "talents" tonight.
Hi, all have fun tonight, I expect at least 300+ comments on this episode when I log back in on Sunday.
My kids are watching a movie that seems to have the kid that plays Ben in it. . .Mostly Ghostly I think it's called. . .if it's not him, they could pass for twins.
Lost 2010 - it IS him! I just saw his name in that movie on my cable guide last night. It's by RL Stein, I think.
That shows how observant I am. I've seen that movie a couple of times a few months ago and never noticed that was little Ben.
Hey, I'm glad that you are liking Fringe now Memphish! Walter was really good this ep, and this one actually got me scared, like the good old X-Files monster days. And Charlie wasn't so constipated, although he had a good reason to be serious this time! I wonder if we will find out that Walter is a bit of a Dr. Moureau!
Rats, I missed that show with Bennnie in it last night.
Thanks for the info Kyle, I love Norse mythology. Yes, weird about the shoes.
Crap, I just found out that I can't watch tonight's episode with you all! I got invited to a hockey game and forgot that tonight was Wednesday. Fooooo-weee! :-p
Oh well, I'll check in tomorrow after I watch it. Have fun!
Has anyone checked this out?
ABC's Lost TimelineHave you noticed that you can sort it in chronological order on this page? When you do, it begins with Episode 5x05 and Locke turning the FDW....hmmm. Wonder what that's about?
xxoo
When Locke turned the FDW they were in statue days Ellen. Then he turned it and they went one more time to 1977.
capcom
I'll miss your comments tonight. Have a good time at the game.
Happy Lost Day.
Take your shoes off;sit a spell.
John Locke has some big shoes to fill.
I am sure if he can't get used to them,Christian Shepperd would like them back.
Ellen;
The timeline does seem way off.They may have gotten themselves confused.
happy Lost day, LoCos!
I'm really stoked about seeing more Miles...one of the most underutilized recurring characters since Rose and Bernard!
I love the banter between him and Hurley so far..."shoot me, please!"
lol
lol I dropped like a rock in the Fantasy League.
I'm hanging in there at like 636 or something. Locke keeps pulling his weight week after week. Anybody remember why I put all those people I don't like much on my team?
I've got like: Locke, Kate, Penny, Christian Shepherd, and Vincent. . .or something crazy like that.
Have fun watching....see y'all later!
Happy Lost Day!! 6 minutes and counting...
'wothers' ... LOL!
Miles!
Sorry - forgot to say NEW POST!!
I think the smoke monster is representative of 'god'...but which version of 'god' is up for debate...
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