Thursday, February 14, 2008

The Economist - Season 4, Episode 3


The ABC tag for tonight's episode says, "Sayid and Kate go in search of Locke to negotiate a peaceful deal when they discover that his hostage may be the key to getting off the island." Sounds pretty boring...but I doubt that we'll be bored.

Here's a little Valentine Treat from David A Dein and the Goog! It's a bonus episode of The Lost Community Podcast that includes excerpts of Episode 32 and 33 of The Devil's Advocate Podcast in which we discussed Lost! Have a question or comment e-mail the show at TLCpodcast@gmail.com or call 206-202-3512 .

*ADMIN ANNOUNCEMENT*
On February 12, Blogger notified us of the following update to their comment platform: "Posts with more than 200 comments have them split across multiple pages." From this point forward, this development should eliminate the need for "lag alleviation" posts. If there are more than 200 comments, click "Newer" to move to the next page.

653 comments:

1 – 200 of 653   Newer›   Newest»
chucklez3 said...

wow........could it be??? is it possible???

am i FIRST???

hahahaha

chucklez3 said...

hmm.........sayid and "peaceful" just don't seem to mesh. well, at least NOT if they would stick to his "i'm a torturer" persona.

by the way........for a soldier, he's been careless a lot. is sayid a "plant"???? oh my god!!!

eh........just wanted to stir the hive. hahahaha.

Ellen said...

Checking in before dinner...can't WAIT til 8pm...
Happy LOST Valentine's Day ya'll!!
xx00

maven said...

Is there something happening with blogger lately? On the old post, when comments reached 200 it started a new "page" for 201+ comments. Page one was 1-200, page two was 201+. It said you can go to newer or newest and older or oldest. Is this a built-in lag alleviation thingy? I also did not see that a new POST was made on the page two 201+ page. Someone explain please.

Dennis said...

Happy Lost/Valentine's Day Everyone!

I don't know what's going on with Blogger lately. It looks like the 200+ comments thing is new to all Blogger blogs. I checked the settings, but I didn't see anything that turned it on or off, so I guess we are stuck with the new format, but at least we don't need "Lag Alleviation" posts anymore...

maven said...

Thanks, Dennis. I always worry that it's only me that's experiencing something new or strange! It's nice to hear that I'm not the only one!

Ellen said...

Testing....blogger sure is acting weird tonight!
xxoo

Dennis said...

FYI, I just checked it out, and the comment paging is one of the new "features" released by Blogger today.

maven said...

Thanks, again, Dennis. I'm relieved that I can now read Blogger in: "... in Kannada, Malayalam, Tamil, and Telugu as well as Hindi."

ular97 said...

okay...before I went to eat the page was 204 or something. I came back refreshed and it gave me the 200 page...but all blank. I went to my RSS and came in like I usually do and I got the new post pic. etc, like the old way. I am sooo "lost".

memphish said...

Blogger updates, eh? Hope it doesn't slow us down tonight. Yeah for the spouses who understand our NEED for LOST. Mine is sweetly in that category.

Ellen said...

Thanks Dennis!
xxoo

memphish said...

From the previous post, ular, my son is 8 (he would say 8 1/2) and he's enjoyed the Wrinkle in Time books. I mostly like them too. They are good jumping off points for the two of us to talk about other things as well.

maven said...

Hope we get some laughs on the enhanced "Confirmed Dead" tonight! Have fun watching shortly in EST.

The Best Valentine Gift tonight:
Leave me alone. LOST is on! LOL

Dennis said...

"The woman is not his wife, but his caretaker"....hmmm

memphish said...

Best use of a pop-up ever for that fact Dennis.

Dennis said...

Has anyone been typing up all these pop-ups from the enhanced episodes?

ular97 said...

I can relate to that Memphish, we have to take every chance we can get to talk to our children and guide them. I read with all 4 of mine, and they now encourage their children to read.

ular97 said...

Hey, you have your spouses to watch Lost with and eat with even if it is sandwiches or take out at home. My Sweetie is out of town teaching classes all week, he will be home late tomorrow.

Dennis said...

My spouse is out of town too, so I'll get to watch live tonight, and comment during the commercials :)

ular97 said...

I get to watch it live anyway, but I don't usually comment on the night of, I wait until the AM and rehash it with the ones online. I could get online, hubby doesn't care; but I prefer to get on my jammies and curl up on the sofa with my puppies to watch intently.

Ellen said...

"I don't know Miles, how stupid are you?"
Gosh I love that line!!!....
xxoo

Capcom said...

Hi all! Again, happy V-day and L-day!

takes a village said...

Was it just me ,or did anyone else feel the need to search for clues upstairs in the bedroom?

DeDJeZTeR said...

Happy Lost And buy some candy and flowers day (stupid candy company made up holiday ...aaaaarrrrrrgggg!)

Gearing up to the 9.

Capcom said...

No Ded! St. Valentine really lived in Rome around the third century! :-) But yeah, it's commercial.

memphish said...

I agree Ded. I'm not a fan of this "buy me" holiday either.

Dennis said...

I'm typing up all the pop-up messages. Should I post them here in the comments when I'm done?

DeDJeZTeR said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Capcom said...

Dennis, our hero!! :-D

ular97 said...

Pop up messages?

Darkaardvark said...

He said 'Seychelles', right? I kinda missed it.

Uhm, Sayid is badass. But that's not a revelation, now is it?

DeDJeZTeR said...

Sweet Geronimo Jackson that was a good opener.

Did anyone catch his name?

ular97 said...

I couldn't understand it that well, sounded something like that

Melissa_Lossa said...

I think the two most interesting pop-ups were the one about Dan's caretaker and the one at the end about the photo casting doubt on Ben's story that he'd never left the island.


Hmmm.... it'd be interesting to see what Ben did in the real world.


And holy crap - what is Sayid up to?

Capcom said...

I want her job. :-|

Dennis said...

Here are the bonus comments from "Confirmed Dead":

These images come from a salvage ship the Christiane I off the coast of Bali in the Indian Ocean. For more info check out: find815.com.

This is the first news of Oceanic 815 the outside world has seen since the plane has disappeared.

This is Daniel Faraday, a physicist some time before he landed on the island. The woman is not his wife, but his caretaker.

Naomi crashed first...now it's Faraday. The island is proving to be a hard place to reach.

Incidentally, Daniel shares a last name with another physicist, Michael Faraday a 19th century pioneer of electro-magnetism.

Hurley recently found Jacob's cabin. But Ben claims one does not visit Jacob instead, Jacob "summons you" so perhaps Hurley is "special" as well.

Locke is leading this group to the Others' barracks for safety.
The LOST writers refer to the barracks as "New Otherton."

Juliet wants off the island in a big way she misses her sister, a cancer survivor whom Juliet miraculously helped get pregnant after her chemotherapy.

Walt's appearance is puzzling to Sawyer because Walt left the island some time ago with his father, Michael.

Locke's father was a con man who tricked Locke into giving him his kidney.

This looks like LA, but it's not. All but 15 scenes in 77 episodes of LOST have been shot on the island of Oahu, Hawaii.

Miles' last name is Straume, as in "maelstrom."

He claims to be a "ghostbuster" or is he just ripping off an old woman.

Karl would love to take revenge on Ben, he was once Ben's "guest" in Room 23 where Ben tried to brainwash him.

Faraday's remark about the scattering light is a clue to the unique properties of the island.

Translation: "815 is found!"

This is Charlotte Staples Lewis, she is an anthropologist. Her name is inspired by C.S. Lewis author of The Chronicles of Narnia, a story about an unlikely passage to a most unusual place.

We've seen polar bears on the island, not here's evidence of the furry creatures in another unlikely location.

A DHARMA logo from the Hydra station. This discovery is very important to Charlotte.

This is Frank Lapidus. He is a pilot formerly of Oceanic Air.
To learn more about the crash of 815, call the number on the TV screen (888-548-0034)

Jack, Kate and Charlie met Seth Norris in the cockpit wreckage just before Seth became the first victim of the smoke monster.

This cow might be a survivor of the now defunct Flame station which Locke blew up with C4 explosives. Animal sightings are not unusual on the island. Kate once saw a black horse in the jungle.

Naomi is getting her orders from Matthew Abaddon. Abaddon is a biblical reference meaning "guardian of the abyss."

As was revealed in a flash forward, Abaddon is the man who will visit Hurley and ask "Are they still alive?"

George Minkowski is the man who answered Jack's first call for help. He shares a name with Hermann Minkowski, a German mathematician who introduced the concept of "spacetime".

The snapshot would indicate Ben has lied about never having left the island.

Darkaardvark said...

"You think you're going after Charlotte without me?!"
"Of course no."
"Oh. ...well, good."


Awesome.

Capcom said...

Awesome Dennis!

Yeah, snappy comeback, eh Ded? :o)

DeDJeZTeR said...

Okay now I can reask that question.

Did anybody find it weird that Jack asks Sayid, at the end of the last episode, If the Helicopter will fly.

Sayid says" Absolutely it will."

Then in the very beginning of this episode, which I unfourtunatley saw before, the episode started (He's been warned), Sayid asks Frank if it will fly. Maybe Chucklez is on to something with the Sayid is a plant idea... Duh Duh Duh!
LOL

And no more lies from Jack huh... Nope, he just lets Sayids Dirty laundry fly.

Dennis said...

Mr. Avellino (according to CC)

Capcom said...

Heh, Sayid's got a Rev.Al hair-do!

Capcom said...

Oh boy, here comes the science! :-D

DeDJeZTeR said...

Whats with the swingset, these people had Daycare?... Another good line... lol

Before the Roman conquest, the ancient Abellinum was a centre of the Samnite Hirpini.
The town was Christianized around 500 AD, becoming an episcopal see. There followed the invasions of the Goths and Vandals. Subsequently Avellino became a Lombard centre, with a castle on the Terra hill. In the early Middle Ages it was part of the Duchy (later Principate) of Benevento and, after the latter’s fall, of the Principate of Salerno.
In 1100, during the Norman rule of southern Italy, it was acquired by Riccardo dell’Aquila. Later King Charles I of Anjou assigned it to the Montfort family, who were succeeded by the Del Balzo and the Filangierian of the House of Candia.
The feudal rights to Avellino were purchased in 1581 by Don Marino I Caracciolo, duke of Atripalda, of a patrician family of Naples, who was made Prince of Avellino in 1589. Avellino became the main seat of the Caracciolo. Don Marino’s son and grandson were consecutively Grand Chancellor of the Kingdom of Naples and chevaliers of the Order of the Golden Fleece. The grandson, Don Marino II (1587-1630), was the patron of Giambattista Basile, author of the Pentamerone.
In 1820 Avellino was seat of revolutionary riots. However, the Unification of Italy some fifty years later did not bring any benefit to the city, being cut off from the main railway line Naples-Benevento-Foggia, and far from the sea as well.
In 1943 the city was bombed by Allied planes in an attempt to cut off the retreat of German panzer units over the important Bridge of Ferriera.
Avellino has suffered from seismic activity throughout its history and was struck hard by the earthquakes of 23 November 1980 and 14 February 1981.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Hmmm... this could be how Hurley ends up as an Oceanic 6.


Where's sayid's girl? She most be loving this valentine's day episode with her man. ;)

Capcom said...

Good work Ded! What do you think that we should take from that?

Darkaardvark said...

Time anomaly OMG. Wowza.

DeDJeZTeR said...

Not sure yet, In this next bit I noticed the number of knights was increased to 50 in 1516... thas a set of the numbers!?!

The ship sent us another Sawyer.

#1 minute time gap from outside world to inside the Snowglobe.

Order of the Golden Fleece.

It was modelled on the English Order of the Garter (Philip had been elected to membership of the Garter in 1422, but had declined to avoid offending the king of France), but dedicated to Saint Andrew. Like the Garter it was restricted to a limited number of knights, initially 24 but increased to 30 in 1433 and 50 in 1516—plus the sovereign. It received further privileges unusual to any order of knighthood: the sovereign undertook to consult the order before going to war; all disputes between the knights were to be settled by the order; at each chapter the deeds of each knight were held in review, and punishments and admonitions were dealt out to offenders, and to this the sovereign was expressly subject; the knights could claim as of right to be tried by their fellows on charges of rebellion, heresy and treason, and Charles V conferred on the order exclusive jurisdiction over all crimes committed by the knights; the arrest of the offender had to be by warrant signed by at least six knights, and during the process of charge and trial he remained not in prison but in the gentle custody of his fellow knights. The order was explicitly denied to "heretics", and so became an exclusively Catholic award during the Reformation, though the choice of the pagan Golden Fleece of Colchis as the symbol of a Christian order caused some controversy.
The badge of the Order, in the form of a sheepskin, was suspended from a jewelled collar of firesteels in the shape of the letter B, for Burgundy, linked by flints; with the motto "Pretium Laborum Non Vile" ("Not a bad reward for labour") engraved on the front of the central link, and Philip's motto "Non Aliud" ("I will have no other") on the back (non-royal knights of the Golden Fleece were forbidden to belong to any other order of knighthood).
With the absorption of the Burgundian lands into the Habsburg empire, the sovereignty of the Order passed to the Habsburg kings of Spain, where it remained until the death of the last of the Spanish Habsburgs, Charles II, in 1700. He was succeeded as king by Philip of Anjou, a Bourbon. There followed a dispute between the Houses of Habsburg and Bourbon over the Golden Fleece, which resulted in the division of the Order into Spanish and Austrian branches. In either case the sovereign, as Duke of Burgundy, writes the letter of appointment in French.
The American clothiers Brooks Brothers of New York, New York, derive their symbol and highest quality line from this Order.

Melissa_Lossa said...

....or not. :)

ular97 said...

This is awful, I don't know who to be mad at, who is betraying who...sighhhhhh

DeDJeZTeR said...

That should have been 31 minutes not #1

memphish said...

This episode has left me draw dropped over and over and over. Hurley?

Capcom said...

Well, we'll have to mull that over some Ded, good work.

Wow, yeah, the time diff, awesommmmmme.

LostIt said...

Was anyone able to see taht passport? I didn't get a good look.

ular97 said...

And...I have no clue what ded is talking about. LOL What the heck am I missing in all of this?

Ellen said...

Hurley set them up?????
Whoa...
xxoo

DeDJeZTeR said...

Born to a Neapolitan middle-class family, Basile was, during his career, a courtier and soldier to various Italian princes, including the doge of Venice. According to Benedetto Croce he was born in 1575, while other sources have February 1566. In Venice he began to write poetry. Later he returned to Naples to serve as a courtier under the patronage of Don Marino II Caracciolo, prince of Avellino, to whom he dedicated his idyll L’Aretusa (1618). By the time of his death he had reached the rank of "count" Conte di Torrone.
He is chiefly remembered for writing the collection of Neapolitan fairy tales titled Lo cunto de li cunti overo lo trattenemiento de peccerille (Neapolitan for "The Tale of Tales, or Entertainment for Little Ones"), published posthumously in two volumes by his sister Adriana in Naples, Italy in 1634 and 1636 under the pseudonym Gian Alesio Abbatutis.
He recorded and adapted the tales, believed to have been orally transmitted around Crete and Venice, several of which were also later adapted by Charles Perrault and the Brothers Grimm, the latter making extensive, acknowledged use of Basile's collection. Examples of this are versions of Cinderella, Rapunzel, Puss in Boots, Sleeping Beauty, and Hansel and Gretel.
While other collections of stories have included tales that would be termed fairy tales, his work is the first collection in which all the stories fit in that category.[1] Although he did not transcribe them from the oral tradition as a modern collector would, he wrote them in the dialect, and in many respects was the first writer to preserve oral intonations.[2]
Lo cunto is known as the Pentamerone, a title first used in the 1674 edition, because it is constructed roughly upon the model of the Decamerone of Boccaccio.
The style of the stories is heavily Baroque, with many metaphorical usages,[3] such as referring to the dawn as
"the Sun, like a chief physician, went out to visit the flowers that are sick and languid,"
"The next morning, as soon as the shades of Night, pursued by the constables of the Sun, had fled the country,"
"as soon as the Sun with his golden broom had swept away the dirt of the Night from the fields watered by the dawn".
"as the Night, having aided the robbers, is banished from the sky, and goes about collecting the faggots of twilight"
"as soon as the Sun opened his bank to deliver the deposit of light to the Creditor of the Day,"
This has been interpreted as a satire on Baroque style, but as Basile praised the style, and used it in his other works, it appears to have no ironic intention.


Thats a quote, please take no offense to language used... it is not mine.

Hmmmmmmm??????????

ular97 said...

Couldn't read the passport either, it looked longer than Linus tho.

DeDJeZTeR said...

Ular, this is all being brought up, from the name of the guy who Sayid killed in the flash forward.

Mr. Avellino

ular97 said...

I get the major channels east and west. I am going to watch again west coast time and use cc. Maybe I will catch more. Now I am wondering if Ben is the good guy and Locke and his crew are the bad ones. lol

ular97 said...

Okay ded...that explains a lot..thx

ular97 said...

Sayid asked Frank if he would take him back to the ship. Frank answered...bring Charlotte back and I will get you off the island. He didn't say to the ship. OR..did I get it wrong?

ular97 said...

oh poop!! I didn't see that coming!!

Ange said...

OMG what show am I even watching this can't be Lost!!?

Melissa_Lossa said...

Hey - Elsa had on the same bracelet that Naomi had!

memphish said...

So who the heck is RG? Ilsa had the same bracelet as Naomi. And BTW I called the double cross. You can ask my Hubby.

Capcom said...

Right Ular, he'll get Sayid off the island....and drop him right into the ocean. :-)

ular97 said...

It has totally changed directions, now it is an assination, back stabbing, science show. I think Sayids new role is to close dead womens eyes when he isn't shooting people.

memphish said...

As for Sayid's list, I think he's working for Ben.

LostIt said...

OMG! OMG! OMG!

The name of this episode should have been "Holy SH*T!

Ellen said...

I'm still sitting here with my jaw dropped....
I agree Ange, who the heck are these people?
xxoo

Darkaardvark said...

I agree that if Elsa is wearing Naomi's bracelet, that means her 'Economist' is on the side of AbbadonOrg which means that Sayid is working against them, and thus on the side of Ben... or someone related to that.

This episode is crazy.

Melissa_Lossa said...

RG - Regina something?

ular97 said...

The island turned them into a bunch of worse than they were people! Except Sawyer and so far he is so sweet, well sort of sweet.

DeDJeZTeR said...

325 degrees if you please... LOL

Ange said...

Why do I get the feeling that Sayid knows Naomi?

DeDJeZTeR said...

WTF??????????????????????????????????????????????????

Darkaardvark said...

Bad job disguising Ben's voice... knew it was him from the start. Nevertheless, awesome twist.

Sayid has been the most 'right' of any of the survivors, in my opinion. Does this mean that Ben is really the good guy?

Head... spinning....

memphish said...

I'm so glad I made my last post before the end of the show!

Melissa_Lossa said...

WHAT?!

LostIt said...

Just when I thought my mind couldn't be blown anymore - KABOOM!

ular97 said...

I think he had feelings of some sort for Naomi.

Capcom said...

Aw man, DocJ promised a complete never before seen bird's eye view of the entire island. Did I miss it while posting during the show?!

Ange said...

Good on you memphish!

Capcom said...

It sure seems like that Ular. Did he know her before?

Melissa_Lossa said...

So is it possible that Ben is the reason the Oceanic 6 are wacko in the future? Can he STILL be manipulating them?

Capcom said...

What a thought, Melissa! Creepy. No rest for the weary....ever.

LostIt said...

The puppetmaster is still pulling the strings!

Ellen said...

Talk about a twist! I was so blown away by that...Sayid working for Ben. It seems that Ben is blackmailing him. Hmmmm....
xxoo

ular97 said...

Oh my aching head. I don't know what to think or speculate or whatever. I need to rest after all that, it made me tired

LostIt said...

So it looks like Desmond made it off the island, but I don't think he counts as an Oceanic 6 since he wasn't on the flight. I wonder if he makes it. I hope so - I like his character.

memphish said...

I think the puppetmaster is clearly pulling the strings. It's Ben's masterminding that is keeping Sayid's friends safe, and what's more, it's not just Oceanic people. Desmond is off too. That was the most mind blowing episode since Flashes Before Your Eyes and like that one I have no clue what to think.

DeDJeZTeR said...

Yeah way to go memphish, you had that before the puppies were even on screen... good call.

So is that number four of the Oceanic Six... or is that four and five, I don't think Ben counts.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Did Ben say something about Sayid protecting his friends?

Ellen said...

Ular-me too! I always enjoy LOST, but this season so far has been absolutely awesome.
I'll chat tomorrow...TTFN and have a good night all!
xxoo

memphish said...

Why was the golfer spooked when Sayid said he was part of the Oceanic 6? It's like he knew he was an assassin, and of course, Ilsa did too. This episode was almost too wild to start speculating on. But dang it, we got some answers.

memphish said...

Who else thought Ilsa looked like a blonde Danielle, especially with her hair up for the opera?

Darkaardvark said...

2:45:03
3:16:22

Capcom said...

If Ben experiments on puppies, I'm going to hate him more than ever. :-(

memphish said...

Daniel's experiment, was the timer the amount of time elapsed since they shot the rocket or the actual time? If it's time elapsed, then we can calculate a ratio in terms of how time is running on the Island vs. off the Island. If it's just time, I guess some people could, but not me.

Capcom said...

Thanks, Dark.

memphish said...

Okay, I did start to wonder if Sayid was taking his orders from Vincent when I saw the dogs.

memphish said...

Also, I just want to say that if Kate doesn't agree to play house with Sawyer, I'm willing to volunteer.

Darkaardvark said...

memphish: It's time elapsed since the rocket was fired, at least that's what he would be measuring in the experiment he set up.

SO AWESOME.

Capcom said...

Right Memphish, we'll leave that one to the experts, heheh.

Melissa_Lossa said...

I know - the harder Sawyer tries, the more I resent Kate.

And he's right - what does she have to go back to?

Darkaardvark said...

Times, in minutes, are:
165.05
196.3667

Ratio of on-island to off is 84.05%

Not convinced that's what we should be looking for, though.

memphish said...

That's what I was hoping Ded. I think that's a lot more useful information.

Capcom said...

You rock Dark.

LostIt said...

The only reason I can think of why Kate would want to leave the island (and Sawyer) is if she's prgenant and has to leave so she won't die.

memphish said...

Time passing faster off-Island makes more sense in terms of the info. we had from the ARG and putting together this Freighter team. It gives them time to get past Xmas and more time to assemble a team.

Erich said...

Ben IS Kaiser Soze!

Capcom said...

:-D LOL Erich!!!!!!!

Ange said...

lostit: that's an excellent idea about Kate. I think that she's been pregnant since sweaty bear cage hubba hubba.

Melissa_Lossa said...

I wish someone would just ask what day it is and clear this up. Who cares if the Sox won the series, Jack? How about some freakin' answers!

Melissa_Lossa said...

I mean, as a viewer, I'm wiling to wait for the story to unfold, but I'm constantly amazed at the Losties' lack of curiosity.

Ange said...

Ohh ML, I was waiting for Frank to say "again" they won the World Series again, meaning 2007...I was all set to freak out about that LOL.

Erich said...

With all due respect Melissa, the Sox winning the Series is of utmost importance. Now that I know Frank is a Yankees fan, I know he's up to no good!

Sayid'sgirl said...

melissa_lossa
Yes I was ejoying the episode without posting this time. I knew Elsa was setting him up when they were going to the opera. Then when she said she loved him "accidently" that was the nail in the coffin.She underestimated her mark. I wonder who her boss was and why Ben wanted him killed? And the guy on the golf course. What do you think Ben by the last time you thought with your heart. (or something like that)? The only thing I could say at the end was to Ben, you b*****d. Is he manipulating all the O6 or just Sayid. Boy I hope Sayid does him in at the end. I know not nice but it is only a show. Going back to read more comments. Oh and what does the time difference mean for the Losties? How much time does that add to how long they've been there?

Melissa_Lossa said...

My mistake, erich. :)

Capcom said...

Yeah, I hope someone does all that math by tomorrow, Sayidsgirl.

DeDJeZTeR said...

I agree melissa, no one wants to know anything, but at least now when Jack is asked a question he answers it... lol

memphish said...

Sayid's Girl, my rough math says if they've been on the Island 100 days, 116 have gone by in the real world. Not that much different.

memphish said...

Jack is both a crap negotiator as we witnessed in Confirmed Dead and the least curious person on the face of the Earth.

Melissa_Lossa said...

So where does Ben go and why when he leaves the island with all of his fake passports and fancy suits?

Erich said...

Anyone else notice Ben's slight German accent at the end? Creepy stuff. And what's with his being able to "operate" on Sayid? Kinda throws new light on the whole "bringing Jack over because he's a doctor" thing.

So, is Ben the top guy, or does he work for someone else? Maybe Jacob (in his off-island, non-flickery, Howard Hughes crazy incarnation, of course)?

And what's with the bracelets? Were Naomi and Ilsa part of some twisted Charlie's Angels deal?

DeDJeZTeR said...

Sayid'sgirl,

I don't think we can come to a conclusion on the time thing yet. I think They will have to fire another payload to see if it is constant or if it is a changing force.

memphish said...

I like it Erich. Kind of reminds me of evil Bond girls too.

And thank you, why didn't he leave to get fixed? I guess because of the insurrection brewing on the Island with Juliet and her copy of his x-rays in The Envelope.

Darkaardvark said...

If that ratio is correct (and again, my suspicion right now is that there ISN'T a 'time-ratio difference' between on and off island, I'll explain that as soon as I can get my thoughts together)

Then we work it out to be... 118.976 or nearly 119 days (assuming 100 days on-island) off the island. That's over two week's difference. But, again, it doesn't make much sense. That's counting from when they crashed... which makes sense because of how the Losties track time.

But if the anomaly has been going on forever... then the island is much, much older than the rest of the world, eh? Confusing.

pgtbeauregard said...

Great comments. Good call on Elsa and Ben Memphish.

Happy Valentines Day to all.

Good night

memphish said...

I agree Ded that the one experiment doesn't give us all the time answers. Was it not the case that he expected to see the flare within about 30 seconds? Then he didn't see it for 2:45, but the flare said 3:16.

DeDJeZTeR said...

Oh and I want to know why there is always a list?

DeDJeZTeR said...

Dark,

Yes confusing... and intriuging too.... lol

Melissa_Lossa said...

Good point, memphish - Ben obviously comes and goes quite a bit - why not go and get surgery?

And with that, I think I'm off to bed. It's been a long week.

Good night, everyone! :)

Darkaardvark said...

Okay, here's my thoughts on the time.

All objects move through space and time. We can only devote so much movement to both of them, total, and that amount is fixed (or nearly fixed, I'm not a physicist). When we move through space more rapidly, we move through time more slowly. Make sense? So if an astronaut was to blast off at the speed of light for ten years on a round-trip, when he returned to Earth, more than ten years would have elapsed. From the astronaut's point of view, time is passing faster on Earth.

The experiment that Dan was running seems to be designed to measure that sort of an anomaly -- because of the rocket's speed, there could be an anomaly between his clock and the rocket's, but it should be very slight- probably less than a second.

If the fact that the rocket was delayed by THREE HOURS isn't weird enough, the huge time difference is. Something is up, because unless that rocket was moving at near-light-speed for quite some time, the numbers shouldn't be that way.

Capcom said...

Wow, Walt grew a lot in two weeks! :o) Yes, we have to see if the differences are consistant, if they do more tests. Real scientists would do it more than once, but...it's only a show.

DeDJeZTeR said...

My guess on why not to get surgery is, medical records.

With out having ever needed surgery on the island, there was no worries, but off the island doctors ask questions.

LostIt said...

Do you think Ben's list is like Jacob's list? Then the people Jcob's list weren't the "good" ones but they were people Jacob wanted killed?

memphish said...

Did you notice that Frank told Dan not to tell Minkowski what he was up to. Only to tell Regina. What was up with that? Our FF have as many trust issues as our 815ers.

Erich said...

Ded: I know. What's up with the lists?

Who wants to bet we get a peek at the big "list" and it ends up saying: "Milk, eggs, bread, toilet paper..."?

I'm way intrigued now that Des has left the island. I didn't expect that. We know he's not part of the O6. So what happens?

It definitely sounded like Ben's either somehow "protecting" the rest of the O6 or at least not hurting them, to force Sayid to do his dirty work. I doubt they know he's working for Herr Linus.

Only two of the O6 left. Who's it gonna be? Sawyer's looking like a possibility now that he and Kate have patched things up. I'm going to stick with Claire in the final slot.

memphish said...

All right everyone my head hurts and I doubt I'll be able to sleep well, but I'm not sure where to go with this at this point. I'll look forward to seeing what everyone finds in the in depth forums (I'm talking to you Twinkle) and on podcasts and from Doc Jensen, J. Wood etc. Talk to you all tomorrow!

Sayid'sgirl said...

Thanks memphish and Ded on the time thing.
Has anyone seen Matathon Man with Dustin Hoffman? Ben reminded me of the dentist in that movie. And why is he in a dog pound or a lab full of puppies?
Elsa and Naomi where both wearing similar bacelets. Elsa was trying to find out who Ben was and I assume kill him. Is that what Naomi was there for and not for Desmond? Maybe Ben did experiments on them and that's there id tag. I know just a thought.

DeDJeZTeR said...

Dark,

I thought it was 31 minutes
2:45 to 3:16

Where is the three hours?

memphish said...

Okay, I lied. If you're Ben and you have all that money and passports and enemies and stuff, why do you have Sayid do you dirty work? Why not hire Jason Bourne? Why have Pickett and Pryce and Tom as your boffo Island security? Things are not adding up -- like the time. I'm really leaving this time. I mean it. ;D

LostIt said...

Capcom, did I missing something? I don't remember seeing Walt in this episode.

memphish said...

Ded, the 3 hours is when Regina launched the thing she counted down about 30 seconds to target, but the thing didn't arrive for give or take 3 hours if those devices were measuring elapsed time.

Sayid'sgirl said...

I was thinking Frank said not to talk to Minkowski because he was Ben spy.

Erich said...

Sayid's girl: Good call on Marathon Man. There is more than meets the eye.

With that, I must leave you all as well. 'Night!

DeDJeZTeR said...

Walt was not in this episode... why do you think you missed him

Darkaardvark said...

Ded,

I'm not 100% certain what exactly those numbers mean. They could be the time (i.e. 2:45 P.M.) but the problem with that is why wouldn't he track how long it took the rocket to reach its target? They should both be tracking the amount of time since the rocket was launched.

I need to go back and watch it again... how long of a time gap is there in between the scene where the payload is launched and the scene where it arrives? It doesn't really make it clear. I guess three hours (if the clocks are counting up from the time of launch )seems like a really long time. But it doesn't make sense that they'd just show the *time*

Capcom said...

Lostit, I was just talking about Tall Ghost Walt. :-)

Sayid and Elsa are like Mr. and Mrs. Smith.

Darkaardvark said...

@lostit,

Capcom was making a reference to Walt aging because of the 'time-anomaly' between on and off-island. Which may or may not be enough for him to have aged that much.

Silly taller-ghost Walt.

DeDJeZTeR said...

Okay, elapsed time (stopwatch) not fixed time (clocks) thats where was getting stumped.

E.J. Sharkington said...

Ok, here's my take on the math. By my count of Regina on the phone, the rocket should have arrived in 26 seconds from the time they fired the payload.

Daniel, I think, was not seeing how long the rocket was in the air, but was comparing time of day clocks between the island and the off-island. The difference in the clocks was 31 minutes, 19 seconds. So what appeared to take 26 seconds to those who were on the freighter, took more than half an hour. The approximate ratio I came up with was that off-island time runs at 72 times the speed of on-island time.

However, this would mean that since the losties have been there 100 island days, they've been gone 7200 real days, or over 19 years. Is this why people are so creeped out by the Oceanic 6, who have not aged, despite being gone all this time?

DeDJeZTeR said...

Dark I follow you. I don't know how long it took, but it was enough time for Sayid to talk with Locke and walk back to the helicopter.

So three hours could be a rough guess.

Darkaardvark said...

e.j,

Here's where that logic breaks down. You can only say the ratio difference is 26 seconds to 31 minutes if we know that the rocket actually ARRIVED in 26 seconds, and the time elapsed difference was 31 minutes.

The time elapsed difference WAS 31 minutes, but the rocket definitely took more than 26 seconds. What we're puzzling over is whether it took 3 hours or an unspecified (but assumedly reasonably large) amount of time.

DeDJeZTeR said...

E.J Shark, that is another interesting view of the math, I am now confused again... lol

Capcom said...

Holy Moly E.J., what a thought! :-D

DeDJeZTeR said...

Way to bring me back, Dark. As you said earlier... I am not a physisist.

Sayid'sgirl said...

E J Shark
I'm not a phisist either. I'm not even good at math. So would you mind telling me how you got the 26 seconds? Thanks

E.J. Sharkington said...

Regina counted out the closing distance from the time she fired the rocket until it made it to the beacon from her vantage point. I counted approximately :26 seconds. There was no break in the scene to extend time.

The 31 minutes is based the difference in the clocks Daniel was comparing, which I believe both show the time of day, which is the only reason he would have to compare the two.

Codysmom said...

OMG OMG OMG What a great episode!

I have a feeling some people won't like where this show seems to be going, but I Love It!

I'm definitely going to watch that again!

Wish I could be of assistance with the math thing, but..... The only thing I was wondering was if it made a difference pre and post purpling.. ie: the time difference used to be even more before the hatch blew?

Sayid'sgirl said...

Thanks e.j. sharington
I was thinking he was comparing time differences in the clocks too.

E.J. Sharkington said...

Here's the big thing with this theory... in this ratio of 72 to 1 time-wise, Ben could go for a walk in the woods, leave the island for a few hours (island time) and spend a month (off island time) back in the real world with his suits and passports and foreign currency.

Sayid'sgirl said...

Well I see I'm already making typos. :)

Codysmom said...

This is so cool. So, this would explain the ability Ben seems to have to be one step ahead of everything?

Capcom said...

Heh, yeah E.J., Ben says, "I'll be back in a sec," and leaves for a month, and walks back into the Hydra a few minutes later. Now won't that just p*ss Juliet right off when she finds out!

Darkaardvark said...

Again, that only makes sense if there's no break between Dan saying "That's beyond weird." and the payload crashing. Which there almost certainly is.

Codysmom said...

LOL, capcom

Capcom said...

Oh! I just read what you said before me Codysmom, so true!!!

E.J. Sharkington said...

I love this concept, whether or not the math works out in the end. Ben is spending weeks partying around the world while people think he's in the bathroom.

Capcom said...

Yeah, he takes a lot of magazines in with him to make it more believable!

Codysmom said...

LOL, my son used to do his entire math homework in the bathroom... memories... ha ha ha

Darkaardvark said...

I do like the concept...

E.J. Sharkington said...

Just watching the scene with the timers on again, Daniel actually says to himself "31 minutes, oh no." which supports the time of day theory.

DeDJeZTeR said...

Did any of you ever see the movie Summer School?

At the end when the big guy returns and Mark Harrmon is like
"I remember you, your in this class."
Then the guy says "I was in the Bathroom."
M.H. "For Three months?..."
B.G."My Zipper Got stuck."

Codysmom said...

LOL, ded

I'm re-watching the ep on my computer, let me know if you need any screencaps, etc

E.J. Sharkington said...

Ok, my head is spinning, I need to try to sleep on all this. Spend 3 minutes in the bathroom, which should give me a few days vacation in the tropics.

Codysmom said...

g'nite, e.j.

So, I'm thinking of the O6, they don't all end up working for Ben, of course.

There's Hurley, who is haunted by Charlie and ends up living at Santa Rosa

There's Jack, who at first is this celebrity hero, but we see that he's turned into a drug addict who wants to kill himself, he's sick of the lies and he says they have to go back

there's Kate... don't know much about her yet except that she drives a nice car and has a "him" she has to get back to...

Now Desmond, also has gotten off the island. I really look forward to his flashforward

LostIt said...

Codysmom, can you get a screencap of the passport?

Capcom said...

DarkUFO has a cap of that up, but a better one is promised.

Codysmom said...

I'll see what I can do. I don't have HD and hope that doesn't make a difference. Dark UFO's are better than mine, usually.

Going now to get it...

DeDJeZTeR said...

Oh yeah, I tried to look at the passport, but my VCR quality taping made it impossible...

DeDJeZTeR said...

I'm spent for the night, c'yall tomoorow.

Capcom said...

Guess I'll pry myself away from you all too, if I can stand it, and catch some Zs. Maven should be online soon, yes?

DiggityDirge said...

wow....just finished watching the first time. Great epi. I took like two pages of notes :) I haven't read any comments so here's my observations/questions in order of most importannt to least important.

Sayid is an assassin for Ben? You mean Ben is still alive and well. I'm not sure whether or not to believe the freighter isn't Ben's people.

Ben is clearly holding something over Sayids head to make him kill "the list." It is so Ben to have another list. Seems like it is the safety of the Oceanic 6 that he is using against Sayid. And apparently the list is hip to Sayid coming to get them since he blew his cover. Is Ben who Kate references when she says he in the looking glass? Is Ben still manipulating them all after they leave the island?

Whose on the list? The lady, Elsa, had the same bracelet that Naomi did but the intials don't match. Is Elsa a fake name? And why did Sayid care so much about Naomi's dead body?

What is the incident where Sayid thought with his heart and not his gun. Who got hurt. Jack, Kate, Sayid and Hurley seem ok. Is it one of the un-named two?

The beacon that Danny boy sent lost 31 mins. Weird. The sender thought it got there right away but somehow it "lost time" before arriving. Something weird with time is happening on the island and Daniel seems to have an idea what.

The secret stash of Ben's passports and cash was interesting. Seems old Benny boy makes more trips of the island than we think, or was it an emergency stash. The name on the passport we saw was unclear but I think it said Dean Morzarty.

Funny line: "these people had daycare."

Finally they talk about why Naomi had a picture of Desmond and Penny. Still waiting to hear that answer.

As many of us suspected, the cabin did move. Weird, but cool. Locke looked quite shocked.

We now know why Berlin was in the 815 game.

Sawyer wants to stay so it is doubtful he is part of the 6. Funny he wants to play house with Kate.

Did Kate stay voluntarily or or she a psuedo prisoner. If she did really stay it's kind of messed up how people keep scewing over Jack after he did so much to help them all.

Lastly, Hurley is the submissive. After Locke intimidates Hurley into following his plan, Hurley becomes the puppet in the ploy to catch the crew at other camp. I was bummed with my boy Hurley.

Alright, going to catch up on comments now and watch again.

Capcom said...

If the passport said Moriarity, it could be referring to Sherlock Holmes' rival.

Capcom said...

P.S., good notes Dig.

Codysmom said...

lostit, I can't get a better screencap than they have at Dark Ufo's. He sure is fast getting those up! On his (here ) it looks to me like it says Dean Moriarty 03 Mar/Mar 62 Zurich. Is that a red cross symbol?

Capcom said...

Looks like the Swiss flag Codys.

Capcom said...

Or the Swiss Coat of Arms, to be exact.

Capcom said...

(Wiki) "Dean Moriarty is one of the protagonists in Jack Kerouac's novel On the Road. Dean grew up in Colorado with a hobo/bum for a father for whom he searches on many occasions. Dean's fanatic personality races from journey to journey and pulls other people along. His various fixations include drugs, women, intellectualism and finally, his father and family life. His marriage and divorce with Camille and Mary Lou and his last affair with Inez are a few examples of his romantic entanglements."

Hmmmmmm.

Capcom said...

Uh-oh! I missed the second part!

"A story featuring Dean Moriarty appears in Alan Moore's The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Black Dossier. The story suggests that Dean is the great-grandson of Sherlock Holmes' arch-nemesis Professor Moriarty."

Capcom said...

And as Sherlock's rival, Prof. Moriarty is..."Widely considered to be the first true example of a supervillain, Moriarty is a criminal mastermind, described by Holmes as the "Napoleon of Crime."

DiggityDirge said...

someone said: Now Desmond, also has gotten off the island. I really look forward to his flashforward?

I don't remember who said this, but how are we getting that Desmond got off the island? Must have missed that part.

Also, any catch the music in the scene where Sayid and Ilsa are in bed? Music is always important in Lost. In the past it has helped us date the flashes.

Last, Daniel says 31 minutes in the scene so I think it is time of day. Somehow they lost 31 minutes between when they sent the rocket and it arrived. Lost time anyone?

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Quick thought (haven't been well last few days):

Ben isn't talking about Sayid protecting the Oceanic 6. He's talking about Sayid protecting the friends he left on the Island. I can't imagine there's that imminent a threat to the Oceanic 6 when they're so high-profile.

Capcom said...

Feel better soon Kyle!

DiggityDirge said...

good find on the name capcom.

It is either Moriarty or Mozarty. Moriarty would make more sense.

DiggityDirge said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DiggityDirge said...

Good thought Kyle. Could be the islanders?

One thing I missed that was huge when you consider the ending. Caught it while re-watching.

Sayid says "Forgive me but, the day I start trusting him (Ben) is the day I would have sold my soul."

When you consider the ending, that's huge. Sayid sold his soul by working for Ben. Interesting.

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