Thursday, February 07, 2008

Confirmed Dead - Season 4, Episode 2


I'm guessing the title of this episode has nothing to do with the confirmed death of Naomi. Watch tonight as the survivors begin to question the intentions of their supposed rescuers when four strangers arrive on the island. So....What is your theory about the "primary objective" of the parachuting newcomers? Discuss.

469 comments:

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2costa said...

i think miles dustbuster was more of a repellant to make the ghost leave, cause like you said he didnt use it for naomi, but what if the island acts as a permanent dustbuster, so he doesnt need one on the island to commune with the dead, or he was just faking talking to naomi's ghost to relieve the tension with jack and kate. IN the guys bedroom miles went into a weird trance and their no denying that the ghost made a noise to signify where the money was

Al said...

2Costa I agree with you about mikhail.
He was never given the code, and just kinda dissappeared after being kinda pissy about ben's lack of trust in him. He HAS to have more of a role than just dissappearing after that

2costa said...

mikhaik was laying right next to charlie when bonnie told him it was good vibrations was the code so he knew charlie was going to unjam it

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

TPTB have said that the Others had no knowledge of the operations of the Swan. Ben only knew that it existed. He did not know where it was.

Al said...

True, but it seems like Mikhail is the least submissive out of the others, i mean he did get rid of the girls like ben asked, but still seemed to be a little ticked off about the sudden Jammer and it not being flooded, and all the other balogna that went on down there

chucklez3 said...

plus, i'm simply stating that purgatory has something to do with it. not that the entire show is about purgatory.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

People on other forums, as well as Doc Jensen, have pointed out that the "dustbuster" is a cold-air blower, commonly used in paranormal investigations to flush out spirits.

maven said...

Some more thoughts:

I think Miles calling Naomi "dead meat" probably just means that he connects more with the spirit world. He certainly lacks a lot of social skills in the real world! LOL Once someone is dead, the body is unimportant.

Loved this episodes Sawyerisms, and they definitely had more meaning than just a throwaway. "Col. Kurtz" implies Locke being loony and maybe losing the confidence of his group. "Tall Ghost Walt": Is this the first time that "ghost" has been used? We're all thinking that there are some sort of ghosts on the island or even in FF and FB.

2costa said...

he actually only blew up the glass where charlie was after charlie found out it wasnt pennys ship. it just seems like a lot of trouble to srorkle outside the looking glass and blowit up there when he gould have just pitched a grenade in there when desmond wasnt looking. it makes me think he wanted to leave the looking glass intact and just mess up the jamming room

Capcom said...

Weren't Ben and his father on a delivery mission to the Swan in the van at some point? Can't remember. Too lazy to check for myself. :o)

2costa said...

kyle ben knew where ever station was and so did mikhail since he had all the blueprints in the flame. Ben was a dharma janitor he knows every hatch

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

capcom: They were on the way to the Pearl, but Roger was wearing a Swan-badged suit.

2costa said...

i think they were going to the pearl, but the pearl had cameras in the swan, your argument about ben not knowing has no weight

Al said...

2costa-
i think he definitely has a power trip going on. i mean not to be over ben, but he definitely wants to be the number 1 right hand man and know whatever's going on, and like you said, he's not afraid of taking out competition

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

2costa, that's just not true. We've been told as much by Carlton and Damon. Official Podcast 3/20/07.

I gotta get out of here for a while. Getting frustrated.

2costa said...

next your gonna say ben really desnt know what the smoke is?cmon, how is it that radzinsky had it called cerebus all over the blast door map and he didnt ebven know what the pearl was

Capcom said...

Tx, TBP.

bigdog said...

is the general assumption the the
O6 leave by helicopter? they could leave some other way

thanks kyle. was thinking that future jack would make sure that his sister and nephew got out if he did.

2costa said...

zeke even alluded to knowing they went inside the swan when he said going places you not supposed to

2costa said...

i dont pretend to have all the answers theres still almost three seasons of episodes to go, whickh makes me think the chopper will go kaboom as well. i cant see jack and kate leaving this soon

2costa said...

i still think they might take the sub and that why locke was mum about the sub last week

Capcom said...

Good point about what Zeke said 2costa, it does imply knowledge. Unless he meant that they weren't supposed to go anywhere on the damm island, regardless of the fact that they were merely innocent castaways. :-)

Al said...

Oh and whoever said that the fantastic 4 team works for ben, i think that's crap. Charlotte looked pretty suprised at ben's knowledge, and it even said so on lostpedia. it's definitely just ben having connections with EVERYONE, once again.

2costa said...

am i wrong in the notion that they never said why they wanted ben in a posative or negative, i just assume its negative in the way both him and charlotte were playing dumb about knowing each other even though she had to know they were there for ben and what he looked like. i have a feeling that be shot charlotte so that locke would like her a little better because he figured the island saved her by making both shots be in the vest area, ben is smart he could have don a head shot if he wanted. my question is karl that studid or is he still working with ben, i say that by the way he was all brainwashed seeming when he left room 23 and just let ben take his gun yesterday

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

No, what that means is that by that point, the things we learned in "Expose" had happened. Tom (Zeke) had been in the Pearl and had seen the Swan, and the new occupants. Ben had then been in the Pearl (when Paulo was in the bathroom) and said he'd manipulate Michael to do what Ben wanted him to do. THEN Ben got himself caught so he'd know where the Swan was.

PRIOR TO THIS POINT, the Others at-large had no clue about what was going on in the Swan.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Miles looked awfully pissed about Juliet being a "native," and very loudly shouted "where is he?" in reference to Ben. That didn't sound too happy.

2costa said...

i cant beleive that ben and his dad were allowed to work on the island with no knowledge of the smoke monster or where the swan was, the swan was set up after the purge or at least changed its function...

maven said...

I think we can surmise the Abaddon and Naomi knew the survivors of 815 were on the island. But why send in this ragtag team of kooky scientist, kooky psychic, kooky anthropologist and drunk pilot? You'd think they'd send in a commando squad! LOL

Now, did Frank have the manifest and know everyone's name by heart just because he was obsessed with Flight 815 and was supposed to be the pilot on it? Or did the whole team have the knowledge that the survivors were there and they needed to double-check the manifest? Frank knew right away that Juliet wasn't on the list and pegged her as a native. She doesn't look like a South Pacific islander native to me! So they knew there were other people on that island besides Ben and the survivors. They know there's a native population.

2costa said...

i agree kyle that just plays to the fact that miles and his bosses know exactly whats going on on the island since the purge, the way i read it they worked tegether in the past and ben is welching out on his end, or they even think that the natives have ben held prisoner

chucklez3 said...

I don't think Ben got caught to find out where the Swan was. He had himself CAUGHT to personally infiltrate the losties' group.

How did he know for sure that they'd take him back to the swan or to the beach?? How was he sure WHICH ones would find him??

and for him to have lived there his entire life and not know where EVERYTHING was, seems a bit far-fetched.

2costa said...

well the natives arent necessarily south pacific just been there along time ,but yes maven i think they confused julliette with a richard type native. original black rock survivors could be considered natives, ps i think the island being like alkatraz is a good point

ular97 said...

This is hopeless...I get to the end of the comments, refresh so I will be caught up and by the time it refreshes one person has posted 3 or 4 long posts. Think I will skip reading comments till later today. Ta Ta everyone

2costa said...

he had himself caught to shake lockes confidence in the swan clock, he obviously wanted the sky to turn blue, which is just why the swan was converted to avoid such things

Al said...

I agre ular
too many posts going on at once to catch up for now, good convo kyle and 2costa, keep going and reach a conclusion, i'm interested in what you guys are saying

i'm out-
Alex

2costa said...

ben acts like he doesnt want these things to happen but having a mole on the boat shows that ben indded did anticipate all these things happeneing we just never know when hes lying or telling the truth

2costa said...

even if oceanic isnt owned by hanso bad twin showed a definite connection between hanso and oceanic and cindy and gary troupe

scoutpost said...

Way back up there
lost2010 said...
Almost forgot - Little does Charlotte know that if she leads Locke to the chopper - KABOOM!!!!! LOL

Kyle thanks for the C.S. Lewis observation. Wonder what significance that will have. I bet J. Wood will have something to say about it.

maven said...
Locke was pre-ordained to give that kidney to Cooper for this very reason.
Maven I thought this same thing! And thanks for the b'day wish.

I've read so much I should've taken notes because now I can't remember any of the thoughts I had...not that there was much to add, you guys cover it all!

2costa said...

Am i the only one that thinks the chopper looks like it was in extra good shape for how crazy the crash looked. It almost seemed like it was just placed there. If it was such a easy landing why was parrothead so messed up seeminh he almost reminded me of locke being messed up after the swan overirde or julliette being all discombobulated after her sub ride to the island

2costa said...

faraday reaction to the flight 815 being found was very interesting, considering he doesnt seem as cutthroat about stuff as miles. was he crying cause of deja vu or something we dont know yet

scoutpost said...

That's a good point 2Costa- parrothead was in pretty bad shape but the helicopter looked fairly pristine. Maybe he just got thrown around a lot on the inside but was able to land without a scratch?

re: the F4's reactions to the freckage- I wonder if, like parrothead, they were all supposed to have been on that flt and for whatever reason, they all missed the flight or changed their plan at the last minute? Survivor guilt.

(I figure parrothead didn't fly the plane because maybe he was drunk or something, maybe he was fired- he looks like he's living a party lifestyle in the Bahamas when only a few months before he was apparently an Oceanic pilot.)

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

It didn't crash. Lapidus said he set it down smoothly. "What kind of pilot do you think I am" were the approximate words he spoke.

Ben chose to go on the mission to infiltrate the LOSTies. He knew of the Swan. He knew that LOSTies were in it. And we know that the Others, in general, had no idea about it, and that DHARMA guarded the existence and mission of the Swan pretty closely (see: orientation video that young Ben watches in TMBTC).

I do not believe that Ben knew how to get to the Swan, or he would have gone there already. I believe that the reason he and his dad were delivering Swan-labeled beer to the Pearl is because they only knew how to get to the Pearl and the Flame. Those are the only two stations mentioned by Roger.

I think Ben wanted to get captured (albeit NOT by Rousseau, but by the LOSTies) so that he might eventually be taken to the Swan and held there. His motivations might have been to destroy it, sure. But he really might have wanted to find Locke. We don't know.

Penuel said...

New post coming soon...Sorry.

Amused2bHere said...

omgosh, if Locke blows up the chopper, I think Sayid would demand a turn at John before he lets Jack kill him!

2costa said...

i dont think ben took thae swan over cause that would have expediated the freightys coming nd knowing he had betrayed the oceanic guy, thats why he made the blast doors drop on locke so he would find the ?(pearl) and make locke be the one who stopped pressing the button, plus he knew enough about it to not want to be in their when it happened

Capcom said...

Good point about Parrothead, Scoutpost. There's probably few worse guilts than a drunken pilot's after he finds out the flight that he was suposed to pilot has crashed.

And Happy Bday to you too!

If anyone is interested, I posted some wiki info on the visible light spectrum and light scattering (mentioned by Dan) at:

http://capcomslost.blogspot.com/

Sayid'sgirl said...

you're welcome diggity

I'm also in the camp that Charlotte knows about the fertility problems. She was just asking way to many questions. To me she was trying to hard to "pretend" she was just curious.

DiggityDirge said...

Good discussion. I'm not trying to pick sides, but Kyle has been very accurate in his points today.

ular97 said...

2costa: how many words per minute can you type? :=D

Capcom said...

I think that you two need to just agree to disagree. :o)

2costa said...

if the swan was so secret why did ethans fake tracks lead locke right to it, obviously ethan had his hand full with charlie and claire and i cant see him makeing that second set of tracks by himself that boone and locke followed

2costa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
scoutpost said...

Well I really like Doc Jensen's article this week. He just about has me convinced that the F4's reactions to 815, their knowledge of the island and it's mysteries could be because they've been there before. But if they were Dharma, all of them (except Frank) would've been young children at the time of the purge- wonder if they've been there since, if so- why and how, and why and how did they leave? I guess we'll have to wait to find out.

2costa said...

my wife wont let me talk to her about lost after it airs she says i get to manic so i become you guys burden, plus kyle the swan being secret is meaningless anyway, i still think kelvin will come back and dont think its an accident that he let desmond see the rip in his hazmat suit and lured him out to the beach, to just coincidently at the time oceanic would be flying over.

Sayid'sgirl said...

capcom
Getting the knife out of her back doesn't seem werid to me, just painful. When I was a kid I could put my arms behind my back and hold my finger tips. I still can except it hurts. I have bad shoulders.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Yeah, I have already promised myself to make the the new post a "2costa vs. thebookpolice"-free zone.

; )

Thank you for the kind words diggity, and thanks for keeping it professional, 2costa.

2costa said...

i have a theory that miles dustbuster ghost buster might have been based on technology that was developed on the island by the degfroots, i dont thinks its a coincidence that the three specialists are exactly in the fields that they show the degroots experimenting on in the pearl and swan films

Capcom said...

Well yeah, painful as HECK!!! :o) You'd kind of have to wiggle it out at that angle, yech.

DiggityDirge said...

2costa, pretty sure Kelvin is dead. I think that was in the S3 DVD extra's with Carlton and Damon.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

I totally agree that the Kelvin story doesn't seem to be over yet. The fact that we've seen people traipse around on that beach/rocky outcropping and not stumble upon his body is highly suspect.

Penuel said...

Lag Alleviation post is up!

2costa said...

hey just to funk things up about the thought of the fantastic four being there before, what if miles is jin and suns kid, i mean in the time loop way. Another though anyone remeber x-files how there was the clan of russians that had one arm because they wanted to cut off their microchips, maybe thats why mikhail has one eye or radzinsky had a glass eye in the bible or they allway just sho one eye for flashbacks or one eye in jacobs shack, seeing is an important theme, didnt the egyptians(charlotte/glyph clock)
beleive that our patuatary gland is our third eye so to speak or penial gland, one of those two

Melissa_Lossa said...

I don't know, chuck - think about how long Danielle's been on that island, and she had no idea where anything was.

From Ben's flashback, it seems that the DHARMAs were really discourgaed from going outside the fence. If that's the case, maybe he only had a limited knowledge of the rest of the island.

Kyle - thanks for the info on Miles' ghostbusting device - although I have to say, I kind of like the idea of him fighting ghosts with some kind of paranormal dust buster. :)

Sayid'sgirl said...

Hey Chucklez
Good to see you.
Thanks about the coordinates. I guess it depends on where point A and point B is.

memphish
Thanks. I couldn't remember the bearing. It sounded similar to Michael's to me. Guess I wasn't close.

Dennis said...

Catchup #1 :)

memphish said... Were they going to gas the Island and then find Ben's body. I guess that's what that case of masks and biohazard material might indicate.

Maybe they know about Ben's purge, and the gas masks are for their own protection against Ben. It easy to forget that Ben is a mass-murderer.

Blogger Lost 2010 said... So I'm the only one that thinks Ben's plant on the boat is Michael or Walt?

Even if Michael is on the boat, he wouldn't be working for Ben, and he wouldn't have all that information on the crew. Must be another Other who is on assignment, like TLG girls.

Capcom said... Does anyone besides me find it weird that a dead person could have a flashback? Are TPTB changing their rules?

I think it was an Abaddon flashback :)

jess4ua said... Or maybe it is all a coincidence.

Eko said: "Don't mistake conicidence for fate"

picsel said... its my birthday today

Happy Birthday Picsel!

Lost 2010 said... Love the idea that Jack's the only one who can fly.

I don't think taking plane flying lessons qualifies you to fly a helicopter. If anything, Sayid probably learned how to fly a helicopter in the Republican Guard, which could make him the next O6.

2costa said... lance riddick, red haired lady, etc...

Can we please stick to using actual character names? your posts are confusing enough....

Sayid'sgirl said...

scoutpost
I know what you mean. I can't get caught up either. And Happy Birthday!

Dennis said...

NEW POST!

Jo_Banker said...

Hi All...new to this and love all that you have been saying. I've been reading all comments since last season. Just have to ask this, how many times will Ben get whacked in the face? That guy is like a Timex watch, no?

tallone said...

well this season is interesting...I saw the underwater wreckage on you tube before the show last week...set up as a news report...oceanic airlines...the comments about russian info, DK about it but...the snake in the mailbox video had russian language videos on the subscriber page which were removed....also has anyone noticed that the arrow on the maxwell site and the arrow on blast door go in the same direction? The machinery planes,ships,helicopters have electrical problems as they approach the island...the guy talking to Naomi has some other thing going on...doesn't sound good. The arrow station the island has to do with math according to Wikipedia. Also what do you think about the animal found in tunisia with the dharma tag? What about Maxwell's theories? I think the ghostbuster,Miles is the one to watch for clues.

tallone said...

does anyone think that maybe ben and his dad were going to the arrow?

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