Thursday, February 07, 2008

Confirmed Dead - Season 4, Episode 2


I'm guessing the title of this episode has nothing to do with the confirmed death of Naomi. Watch tonight as the survivors begin to question the intentions of their supposed rescuers when four strangers arrive on the island. So....What is your theory about the "primary objective" of the parachuting newcomers? Discuss.

469 comments:

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Melissa_Lossa said...

Oh, I almost forgot my favorite line of the night: "Please, Karl - if you're going to sleep with my daughter, I insist you call me Ben."

Ben is enjoying this a bit too much!

Satan Dingo 420 said...

" I was waiting for the smoke monster to hurl the remains of Charlotte at their feet before I realized who she was."

That would have made this the most awesome episode ever.

Capcom said...

LOL Codysmom!

Lost 2010 said...

Oh, I like them all but Charlotte actually. She reminded me of someone and I can't put my finger on it. I know, you remember that girl on Indiana Jones that died cause she wouldn't let go of the grail - she had that feel to me. I think she's a goner.

Capcom said...

I like them so far Erich. Yeah, Miles is a loose cannon and scary. But so far they seem OK. I really like Dan, he's cool. But I maybe just have a soft spot for quirky scientist types.

Melissa_Lossa said...

I think Dan's my favorite so far. They made him seem so ominous in the promos, but he's actually kind of adorable.

scoutpost said...

Dang why does the hour have to go by so fast?! Going to start comments.

Lost 2010 said...

I do think they may be pawns in the game though. Abbadon and Naomi were the only ones who really know the plan perhaps - these other guys were just given the Juliet treatment maybe.

Melissa_Lossa said...

All right kids - I'm off to bed. See you all tomorrow!

Erich said...

Got to get some sleep. Great hashing out this excellent ep with you all! I'm sure there'll be more hash tomorrow.

Night!

Satan Dingo 420 said...

Charlotte's voice irritates me. I've wished death on people for less.

But I see what you mean,2010, I do get the same vibe off her. Hopefully she'll get eaten by one of the remaining polar bears soon.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Just a quick thought, and then I'm off to eat more Nutella won-tons.

Who has Ben entrusted to run his secret missions? Juliet. Bonnie. Greta. Even Bea and Colleen. Connecting thread?

All women.

Regina's the mole. Good call, memphish. I'm even more convinced you're right.

Lost 2010 said...

G'night. It's been fun.

LostIt said...

My first thought about the "inside man" was Patchy, but then my husband mentioned Michael and I thought that might make sense. His cooperation would be required before he was finally allowed to go home. And Walt did warn Locke,
didn't he?

What I don't understand is how whoever the "inside man" actually is communicated with Ben. A walkie-talkie isn't going to do it. How did Ben know the freighter would be there in order to put a plant on it?

The thing I really don't get is that the freighter 4 knew about oceanic 815 and what they are really after is Ben. So what's the deal with Naomi and the picture of Penny and Desmond? Desomd had nothing to do with flight 815 or Ben. How does he tie in? Unless Dharma knew he was pushing the button for 3 years?

Ooooh! I just had a thought! Maybe the "inside man" is Annie!

Codysmom said...

I'm thinking Juliet's in trouble...

memphish said...

I was hoping a polar bear was going to surface while Charlotte was in the water. I thought it would be fitting.

So the physicist, parapsychologist, and anthropologist all tie close enough to the original Dharma mission types. I think the pilot is there because of the phone call he made. I'm betting Naomi was supposed to take him out too.

LostIt said...

Also, Charlotte's question to Claire about having the baby on the island - the way she said "amazing!" made me think that she knew something about the fertility problem on the island.

memphish said...

There are screencaps up at Dark UFO. Hard to say where Ben is exactly.

memphish said...

I called the number during the show and got a recording thanking me for calling, blah, blah, blah. Nothing interesting; no way to leave a message.

memphish said...

I swiped this observation from Gitsie Girl: Rain as helicopter was trying to land = electrical storm = security system. It wasn't raining when Naomi crashed though.

LostIt said...

Funny you mentioned thunder and rain -- While I was watching that scene tonight the Fleetwood Mac song went through my mind


Thunder only happens when it's raining
Players only love you when they're playin'
Women, they will come and they will go
When the rain washes you clean you'll know.

scoutpost said...

Well my head is swimming and all I can say is ditto, ditto, ditto and...ditto.

Kyle- I think you and of course memphish may be right about Regina. It makes a lot of sense.

Miles called Juliet a "native", so there must be some knowledge on the inhabitants of the island. Like the Freightistic Four were aware of Dharma and the hostiles. Of course Juliet is not really a native. Hope Juliet makes it out of that one.

do you think Miles will contact N & P and steal their diamonds? ;)

Amused2bHere said...

ack! what a great episode. I just spent the last hour on the phone with Chucklez, rehashing the show. I told him about all the P-talk this afternoon--he is going to try to get online in the next day or so, but he says "Love, Peace, and Purgatory" to everyone! He misses us too.

omgosh...so much in this episode. Ben's look of terror at Hurley's mention of the cabin, Locke's look of paternal pride at the same.

Jack's use of the "light 'em up!" tactic...Is Jack the new Ben? And is Walt the new Jacob?

As for the Freightastic Four: Daniel seems unstable, like he's lost in a fog. why is he there?
Miles is so snarky. I like him!...
Charlotte also seems fake. Indiana Jonesette, indeed! lol Frank, the Parrothead Pilot. Where have I seen him before? I think Michael is the mole on the boat, but Regina is a pretty good guess.

Good call to whoever it was who suggested that Naomi's "love to sis" was code for "I've been murdered".

acewebguy said...

These are my partial thoughts about the make-up of the team.

Miles was brought to find Jacob. Miles has a paranormal ability; could he have the sixth sense and see dead people. He will be a ble to "sense" Jacob and talk to him.

Daniel seems to have an acute emotional sensitivity as shown by his almost breaking down in the beginning and no knowin why. I think he may be able to "feel" Jacob's presence in case Miles cannot communicate with him.

They need Ben first to point them in the direction of Jacob and/or find out what he did to Jacob as Ben is the last Dharma survivor.

LostIt said...

At the beginning of the episode, Dan was crying while watching the news report of the Oceanic 815 freckage. Someone was calling him Sam and asked him what was wrong and he said "I don't know".

Could Dan be some sort of telepathic empath? Maybe he was psychically connected to Sam and took on the persona of him while watching that news report and the person talking to him was trying to talk to the person Dan was "channeling"?

OK, now that I wrote it down it sounds way out there, but this IS LOST, so way out there may not really be that far off the mark.

acewebguy said...

My explanation for the polar bear remains being in Tunisia. It looks like Tunisia could be a vile vortice location. Does anyonehave access to a better map that could look that up?

scoutpost said...

lostit- could be, but I think she was saying Dan. Honestly I thought at first she was saying "Ben"- but being as my husband's name is Ben and whenever we go out to eat somewhere and he gives his name for them to call (when the table's ready), they inevitably hear him say "Dan". So we just use my name now. But I think she was saying Dan and it just sounded like Sam. Of course I haven't rewatched yet, maybe someone can get a close caption or something.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

I don't think anyone called Dan "Sam." I think it was just off-camera vocal that didn't come through very clearly.

amused, didja ever see Lawnmower Man?

LostIt said...

I take it back. I just rewatched the beginning and the woman said Dan, not Sam. It really sounded a lot like Sam, though.

Amused2bHere said...

TBP, yes I saw Lawnmower Man but I only remember Pierce Brosnan from that film lol
I looked Jeff Fahey up and he's actually been in a series of Christian end-time movies that I've seen...the Apocalypse Trilogy. And tons of other things, so I've probably seen him in lots of places and just don't remember.

scoutpost said...

Ha! I just read this news article about some Komodo Dragons:
wo Komodo dragons have hatched at the Sedgwick County Zoo, apparently without the fertilization of a male. The dragons, both males, are believed to be the first in North America known to have hatched by parthenogenesis

Just waxing sentimental about TLE....parthenogenesis

Amused2bHere said...

LOL I just saw he started out on the soap One Life to Live in the early 80s. That's where I know him from !!!!!

Sayid'sgirl said...

amused2behre
What charater did he play in OLTL?
Cause that must be where I know him from too.

Penuel said...

lostit said...

"Ooooh! I just had a thought! Maybe the "inside man" is Annie!"

I had the exact same thought. Or at least the inside man is somehow connected to Annie. Annie is what makes the inside man possible. If Ben were to secretly spare (and release) anyone from the purge it would've been her.

Primary Objective = Dharma revenge.

Amused2bHere said...

Jeff Fahey played Gary Corelli. I'm looking to see more info on the character, I don't recognize the name.

scoutpost said...

Annie is a good guess too- and it fits the female angle.

Sayid'sgirl said...

I don't recognize it either.
Time for bed see you guys tomorrow.

Amused2bHere said...

apparently, Gary was a brother to twins Marco Dane and Mario Corelli.

OT, I know, but it's amazing how we "know" actors

Sayid'sgirl said...

Yeah I found Marcus Aurelius Corelli better known as Marco Dane.
I do remeber his charater but not his brother Gary.
Ok enough OT from me too. Now I'm really of to bed. Night.

chucklez3 said...

the inside man is tommy mittelwerk. hahaha.


did i mention, "purgatory"???

DiggityDirge said...

just finished watching and reading the comments. Here's my two cents:

1. Naomi and Abbadon knew there were 815 survivors on the island. I have no doubt in my mind that they knew. Abbadon continues to instill disbelief for some unknown reason.

2. Agreed it is an interesting team to put together to go to the island. Not sure why you would assemble such a crack team. I think that was Naomi's point. They are people who could not be beleived so who would miss them if they died/went missing? A ghostbuster (weird), an emotional physicist, and drunk pilot, and a lady who found a polar bear in the desert? All itmes seem pretty far fetched.

3. The picture of Ben was weird. It was definetly 70's style, and the computer monitor on the counter had no cords coming out of it. No power plug or VGA connector.

4. My guess is Faraday or Leppidus is the guy in the coffin after seeing tonights epi. One of them will be responsible for helping the 6 get off the island. Just my guess.

5. I think Ben's mole is Michael. How else do Michael and Walt end up back in the storyline? It seemed like Minkowski was dead or "unavailable" to me. The lady on the phone seemed very rushed like she was being held at gunpoint or something like that.

6. Loved Sawyer's line about not asking Walt any follow up questions.

7. So if they are there for Ben, why did Naomi have a picture of Desmond and Penny? Widmore still has to play into this somehow.

8. Did anyone catch the line when they were carrying Naomi's dead body by the chopper. It was something like "What's the point. It's not Naomi it's just me." That didn't make any sense to me. Can anyone clarify?

chucklez3 said...

wait. what's it called when a spirit can't move on to salvation or damnation, etc?? hmmm.......what's the word i'm looking for here, when a spirit is sort of in between "finalities"???

it's on the tip of my tongue........

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

diggity: "Meat," not "me."

scoutpost said...

Hey chucklez! Glad you made it on today. Wish I could stay up longer, but I don't think I have anything to add right now, my brain needs sleep.
Maven- sorry I couldn't stay up to chat tonite! Hope you're enjoying the epi!

DiggityDirge said...

thanks Kyle....couldn't figure that one out for the life of me.

chucklez3 said...

had to drop by. amused told me that my name and what-not came up yesterday. so here i am. just to let everyone know that i'm alive and still pushing purgatory. hahahaha

chucklez3 said...

oh and in case you haven't noticed, check out the new avatar.

chucklez3 said...

well, it appears most are sleeping now. talk to you all later. email me at buttmonkey73@yahoo.com or send a message on my myspace (www.myspace.com/chucklez3) or text/call 419-461-2552.

goodnight.

peace, love and purgatory.

maven said...

Just finished her in pst! OMG...WOW...WTF?....LOL

Gonna rewatch again RIGHT NOW!

maven said...

Okay, finished reading comments. By the time I catch-up, you guys have read most of my thought! :( or :) I'm just finishing watching epi for the second time, and it's getting late (for me). Will sleep on it and be here in the am!

Pinkhamster said...

How come no one else has mentioned that when Miles talked on the phone the last time, that the person he was talking to sounded exactly like Naomi? I think he was using the phone to talk to Naomi. Right after he hangs up he says they can leave her body there because "it's just meat." He knows that because he just talked to her ghost on the phone. Has anyone relistened to that call and knows for sure that wasn't Naomi on the phone?

My theory: the entire team is working for Ben. That's why they brought the gas masks, because Ben wants to repeat his earlier massacre to get rid of the 815'ers he doesn't want there. They said they were there "for Ben," but they didn't say they were there in order to do anything bad to him.

Ange said...

Diggitydirge said...I think Ben's mole is Michael. How else do Michael and Walt end up back in the storyline?

This is an excellent idea. Maybe Michael now feels that he owes Ben something for letting him off or is in some way trying to appease his conscience for Anna Lucia and Libby.

memphish said...

Diggity Dirge said:5. I think Ben's mole is Michael. How else do Michael and Walt end up back in the storyline? It seemed like Minkowski was dead or "unavailable" to me. The lady on the phone seemed very rushed like she was being held at gunpoint or something like that.

I agree that the woman on the phone did sound funny. But she didn't use the "sister" code phrase to indicate she had a gun to her head, and Miles seemed to be all about the code phrase part of the operation. Maybe they forgot to come up with one for back on the boat. :-)

I wouldn't be too surprised if Michael was the mole, but there are a lot of problems with that idea in my mind. First being why on earth would Michael do anything Ben asked him to do; second being why would Walt who in 3 Minutes seemed very antagonistic to the Others do anything Ben asked him to do; and why would the Freighties keep Michael and Walt knowing they had been on 815 (Frank knows all their names) instead of killing them, or at least if not killing them making sure they didn't learn anything about them.

Lost 2010 said...

I think it's Michael too. I think that's why we got the taller Walt ghost - because Walt knew Michael was informing Ben and he thought Locke should know too.

I did think it sounded like Naomi on the phone, but it didn't dawn on me that Miles was ghost-whispering.

So, I'm leaning more and more toward Abbadon being a Dharma rep and he's hired super-spy Naomi to lead a team of geeks specializing in the Dharma fields of research in there to get Ben and find out what went wrong with Dharma. I'm thinking that the weight thing will come in to bear with how many people Parrthead flies home - and maybe even one of them has to jump off at the last minute to allow the chopper to rise. And Parrothead will say - we'll come back for you on the next trip - only there will never be a next trip.

memphish said...

Doc Jensen's recap.

memphish said...

Lost2010, I agree that only 6 get off because the chopper can only hold so many and they can't get back, but I don't think any of the Freighter 4 will get off. I think only the 06 will leave and Jack who took flying lessons will fly which explains why he leaves people behind. There has to be a very good reason Jack would be go before others, and I think that's it.

I wonder if we're going to see the people on the beach which I guess is just Sun and Jin and Rose and Bernard anytime soon? Looks like Jack, Kate, Sayid and Juliet will be heading to the Barracks with their 3 to find the 4th. That could also explain how Hurley, Jack and Kate end up leaving together.

memphish said...

Also, the "are they still alive" that Abaddon asks Hurley could refer to the Freighter 4, not the other Oceanic people.

picsel said...

heya guys, i wish i could join in for the discussion but i wont be able to see the episode until tuesday! We dont get it in the UK until sunday, butits my birthday today (woop 17, 1 year away from being able to drink ...legally) so im away for the weekend with my mates and girlfriend... so i wont be here :o

Happy lost day for yesterday to you all, and speak on tuesday :)

memphish said...

Happy Birthday Picsel! Enjoy!

ular97 said...

Talking about Naomi, I kept thinking someway Dharma learned how to capture the essence/spirit/mind, what ever, and they clone people to hold it. That is why Naomi was just "meat". That is why they never really die, they can make new body's to hold the mind.

Lost 2010 said...

Happy Bday Picsel!

memphish - That makes sense. Love the idea that Jack's the only one who can fly. There were only 4 on the helicopter when it went down though so wonder how they decide to put 6 on there? What if they actually do make 2 trips. If they do take Ben back, you could have a group of 4 (Parrothead, Ben, and 2 O6ers) and they return for a second batch only Parrothead gets killed so Jack must fly back (Jack, Juliet or injured Parrothead (wild guess) and 4 O6ers). I think you have to have been on the manifest to be an O6.

ular97 said...

hmmm...maybe Ben was taken back and he is in the coffin? Oh darn, he has a daughter not a son. So much for that idea. LOL

Lost 2010 said...

ular - Maybe Ben, like Christian Shepard, has left illegitimate children scattered about the globe - you never know.

ular97 said...

I wondered why Ben didn't shoot that "got on my nerves" girl in the head. He was close enough to make a shot he knew would be fatal. Even Sawyer made mention of his shooting abilities,didn't he?

Fun Box Boards said...

Deal Has Been Reached to End Writers' Strike: Eisner

Does this mean filming will resume?

ular97 said...

We could hope, but they don't have time to film new epi's now, do they?

bigdog said...

happy birthday piscel.

Boy that was a fast moving episode. it is really cool to watch the 815ers become so skilled on the island. jack playing the role of mr. friendly in the light em up seen was great. they all seem so comfortable with the island surroundings.

Strange - two episodes in and 5 new people on the island and no smokey??

Wouldnt richard and the others have seen the flare?? why havent they come for ben yet?

bigdog said...

Also loved when Sawyer called Ben Yoda

memphish said...

BigDog, I was wondering about the lack of Smokey too. They've been all over the Island, Jacob's shack has been all over the Island, new people have come the Island. Sounds like the Security System is on the fritz.

Ular, TV Guide is reporting that LOST could put out 6 more episodes if the strike indeed ends. I'm not really sure why they can't do 8. It seems to me they are still ahead of where they were last year. But I guess actors and other crew may have other commitments, though you'd think they'd all be pushed back because of the strike too. Plus the Screen Actors Guild could strike in June over the same issues.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Charlotte Staples Lewis. As Doc points out (and I missed completely, last night), conspicuously similar to Clive Staples (C.S.) Lewis.

My first thought this morning, though, was about the Staple Singers, whose most famous single was 1970's "I'll Take You There."

memphish said...

The gas masks -- so that they could offensively release gas or to defensive to survive a repeat of Ben's purge? I still think offense. Why wouldn't each have a gas mask as they parachuted in if it was for defense.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Good morning, TLC!

About the gas masks, did anyone catch what else was in that box? Seems like there were some orange bags of some kind - might help to know if that was some sort of chemical agent or not.

bigdog said...

if michael is the plant, that would mean two things to me, he has access to information on the boat. and he has access to ben through the girls in looking glass..

i would think that he would be held hostage not given access to crew information.

Sayid'sgirl said...

Diggity Dirge said: 1. Naomi and Abbadon knew there were 815 survivors on the island. I have no doubt in my mind that they knew. Abbadon continues to instill
disbelief for some unknown reason.


I agree. That's what I couldn't understand. They both knew there were survivors. Why did he keep insisting there weren't.

5. I think Ben's mole is Michael. How else do Michael and Walt end up back in the storyline?

I have to agree with this too. This is a good way to get Michael back in the storyline. Last night I was a little confused on why people were talking about Ben's mole. Until I rewatched the episode. I thought Ben had said I have a man from their ship as in kidnapping. Not on as in mole.

pinkhamster said: How come no one else has mentioned that when Miles talked on the phone the last time, that the person he was talking to sounded exactly like Naomi?

I noticed she sounded like Naomi too. But just figured it was someone with a similar accent. I don't think Miles is ghost whispering her via the sat phone.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Dark UFO has a screencap of one of the photos from the house that Miles goes to. The boy in it looks a LOT like the kid who played young Eko. I thought the same thing when I watched that scene. Anybody else notice that?

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

sayid'sgirl: Why did he keep insisting there weren't

Answer: Maintain the lie. Establish a habit of saying that there were no survivors. If conspirators speak too much about the truth behind closed doors, it's that much easier for those words to slip out in public.

He might as well have said "Repeat after me: 'there are no survivors'."

bigdog said...

my first thought on the gas masks were shame on me once... in dealing with ben

Sayid'sgirl said...

Good point Kyle. Thanks
Oh and Happy Birthday Picsel!

bigdog said...

melissa i noticed that the camera wanted us to see the picture on the wall i just couldnt recognize who he was.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

melissa: I'm looking at it right now, but I don't think it's him. The mouth is too high on the ghost kid, and the tip of the nose doesn't hook down enough.

Sayid'sgirl said...

I don't think they expected to have to bail out of the helicopter.
I think they planned to land get out of their flight suits and into the hazmat suits and gas masks.
Someone asked about why Dan didn't have a vest on and Charlotte did.
Charotte wouldn't have had one if Miles hadn't given her his. She couldn't find hers as the helicopter went out of control. And Miles basicly threw Dan out of the plane. As far as Parrot Head pilot who knows maybe he was just driving the "get away" car.

Sayid'sgirl said...

oops
Miles threw Dan out of the helicopter no the plane.

Lost 2010 said...

Didn't they cast the whole thing and shoot the pilot in a ridiculously short time? 8 episodes should be a piece of cake. :)

Melissa_Lossa said...

I disagree that Michael is the mole. I think he'll come back into the story in the flashforwards. I just don't see why or how he would have connected with the freighter people. I think Michael is laying low somewhere, with a new identity, so that no one finds out that he killed two people.

2costa said...

it seems like i was right about a lot of stuff, but they dont need the sub to escape all they need is the chopper. The fact that they are their to get ben show that lance riddick is the money arm of the others or dharma or mittleos or whatever. Either they are their to save ben or they are there to stop him from tinkering with the timeline. In classic lost fashion evertime they make a reveal they keep you wondering if the supernatural or the scientific explaination applys
1. I think the frieghtys are just the people fate left off 815, not literally like frank lapidus but figuratively, as in the chopper is just another in the long line of ship, ddanielles boat then desmond then 815.
2. i thought the dharma collar on the polar bear fossil in tunesia was mind blowing, but then i think thats too obvious, it seems if oceanic and hanso could put a fake plane in the ocean, get to that later, then it doesnt seem out of the ordinary that they could have planted the dharma collar their as their motivation for the anthro-oligist to get to the island.

3 was farrady crying at the news of 815, a case of deja vu like when desmond went back into the past of his lifetime, of have their been seeds planted in his head.

4. was lance riddick talking about the 815'ers or the freightys when he asked hurley if any were still alive on the island last week

5. is riddick the one that gave mikhail his orders, when he shot tlg ladies and permanently unjammed the signal

6. is hurley now a threat to bens primacy now that he has the gift of second sight as well

7. Is miles just a more trained in control of his powers version of walt locke and hurley as far as his medium powers or is he a conman or a little of both. I think he has powers but ironically conned the ghost, with the general where is it,he got a sign to where the money is, but most people have something hidden so"where is it is a loaded question" especially to a poltergeist

8. did miles dustbuster ghost thing do anything or was it like a thing to force the ghost to leave, like those high pityched things you plug in that make rodents leave, if so he was conning the ghost into thinking it had a choice in leaving, simuliar to the way ben cons people into thinking they have free will.

9. i think the timeloop on the island theory is in play and that mean anyone of the people on there could end up being jacob, including ladipus or jack, i would rule out christain as jacob because when hurley saw him he was still wearing his black suit doesnt seem liuke he will change clothes, to me the jack refference to his beard before makes more sense that he may be jacob, coupled with the reverse message in room 23 that said jack is jacob.

memphish said...

Seems like this group has a thing for American men and British girls.

Amused2bHere said...

'morning LoCos!

happy birthday Picsel. Enjoy!

I'll bbl after I watch the episode again. (thank God for video tape!)

Lost 2010 said...

Almost forgot - Little does Charlotte know that if she leads Locke to the chopper - KABOOM!!!!!

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

2costa: DHARMA and Mittelos are, essentially, enemies. So for Abaddon (the character name, FWIW) to work for one or the other is a very important distinction.

It would mean the difference between wanting Ben for debriefing ("What happened to DHARMA? Did you kill them all?") or vengeance ("You killed all our Island operatives, and now we're gonna make you pay.")

memphish said...

2Costa said:Either they are their to save ben or they are there to stop him from tinkering with the timeline. Interesting idea. I do think Mrs. Hawking and her knowledge of the Island has to be connected to Abaddon as well. I like the idea that these people may be there to force Ben to stay on his path like Mrs. Hawking did with Desmond.

2Costa I also like your take on the polar bear with the collar being a plant to entice Charlotte to join this merry band of adventurers. I'd guess they used money to get Miles. They used the chance to find the real 815 to get Frank, and I don't know what they used to get Dan. Dan is the most confusing, though cutest to me at this point.

Ben ordered Mikhail to kill Bonnie and Greta, not Abaddon.

All the dustbuster stuff reminded me of the first episode of Reaper.

2costa said...

10 did oceanic show the wrong picture of the pilot or the wrong body because the plane was faked or did they do that as their motivation for ladipus to go to the island

11. it seems very cooincidental that three of the freightys fields are ones that degroot studiied on the island, if they are not there to fix the swan at the very least they are there to wipe the island clean of inhabitants so as to not screw up the space time continum

12. did lance riddick operation know that ben has the defacto leader of the others, i would have to think so, he just betrayed them which is what led to fthe friction between him and mikhail and richard

13. i think ben got rid of all of the hanso/oceanic recruits like mikhail or price or whatever, but he spared richhard because richard is a true island native

14. was lockes comment about walt being taller confirmation of island time passing slower, noone has said how long ago 815 crashed is it 90 days or two years. or was locke just referring to the fact that he was looking up at walt from a pit

15. i like how both ben and red were playing dumb until locke forced his hand to reveal that he knew who they were and why they were there. I think it was fitting that again locke and sawyer together become one functioning individual. I think that was reffered to when sawyer called locke cornol kurtz, i remember i pointed out that there was an apocolypse now visual reference when sawyer went barefoot with the cerimonial blade to kill cooper.

16 i specualtaed that sayid wants to get off the island to find his iraqi lady and wondered how he would join the oceanic six and my questions were answered. Since he can fly the chopper it may explain why only six get off the island and probably not any of the freightys

17. ben showing he is still in control, sort of lends credence to the fact that ben wants to get rid of anyone that has the gift to see jacob, thats why he let walt leave, that is why he gave hurley and locke a look when hurley mentioned the cabin, hence prolly wht hurley gets off the island,

18 julliette may get off the island but i think ben wont let her and since she wasnt on the flight she cant be an oceanic six

2costa said...

i dont think dharma or the others are necessarily enemies, i think that after the purge lance riddicks character worked with ben and sent him recruits,mikahil kelvin , julliteee. but ben was secretly undermining his own group the others, thats why they are their to get him or as i said maybe they just do want to debrief him.. I would say ben and richard could have done it all themselves with the sub but dont forget in not in portland mittleos had their own private airport, not something ben could do without off the island support, i think since richard left a lot they were trying to pull of a coup and get rid of ben, for the lance riddick character

2costa said...

the fac tthat they know who ben is and want him sort of shows they were working with him, i just think he has been undermining the off island interest, dont forget that mittloes had its own airport in not in portland, not reaaly something ben could do just on the island, plus how could ben get an operative oon the frieghter if he wasnt connected

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

...I'm goin' googly-eyed...

2costa, do you really think Hanso and Oceanic are the same thing? Regardless, Mikhail wasn't DHARMA. That was a lie, remember?

I think the Swan is a little too far gone for "fixing." Maybe Miles can use his Dustbuster to clean up, but that's about it.

I don't think Ben is in any position to block Juliet or anyone from leaving the Island, unless his "man" on the freighter blows everything up.

2costa said...

i think they have been displeased with ben for a long time and that why they had richard try to pull coup. i think they have benn sending ben recruits for a long time like mikhail and kiugh, and it explains why mikhail unjammed the signal and killed the looking lgass girl and said he was folling orders, but not bens

2costa said...

becuase dharma was no longer in existence and yes hanso owns oceanic so yes i think they are the same thing. Ben isnt the leader of dharma he was ajanitor he is the leader of mittleos or the others

2costa said...

the question for me is was the polar bear witht he clollar legit or an elaborate con to get the red haired lady on the island, becaus eif it was real it was probaly dude to the first incident, when the swan poop hit the fan all this stuff from the island got scattered through history

2costa said...

we know there are differnt factions in the hanso foundation the mittlewerk loyalists and the hanso loyalists

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

2costa: If Abaddon and the freighter people are working for Mittelos, and are after Ben for "undermining" them, how do they know he is? And what is he doing to undermine them? If he's betraying a second group on allies (first DHARMA, now the Hostiles), how is he doing it?

2costa said...

last night made me think of the virus again, the fact that they have the hazmat suits and gas masks make s me think there is a reason, they probably think the 815;ers have gone insane like rousseaus crew.

2costa said...

what if they are trying to engineer a virus like the one from the first lost experience that kills a certain personailty type, say bad people, then they use the island so somehow put that virus in the past to see if that affect the humna race and gets them off this track towards self destrcruction that we are on, much as like the original mission of the dharma intituative was supposed to do

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Okay.

1) How do you know that Hanso owns Oceanic? That hasn't been revealed anywhere.

2) Why do you think the orders to kill Bonnie and Greta didn't come from Ben? Mikhail said they did.

3) Mikhail didn't unjam the signal. He just broke radio silence from the Looking Glass. Charlie unjammed the signal with the keypad code.

2costa said...

they have mapped out armageddon with the valanzetti equation and the island and experiments are a way to change the outcome, remembr when mittle werk was saying they were averting a tragedy and these villagers had to die. if they release a baddy virus in the past people like hitler or stalin will neve rbe born

Dennis said...

Good Morning everyone!

Wow! What a great episode. Great to see the Find815 stuff tied into the show.

Best scene of the show - "What is the monster?" :)

Time to catch up on comments...

2costa said...

yes it had kyle in the lost experience, oceanic is definetly owned by hanso

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

4) We haven't gotten to the point in the LOST timeline where the Spider Protocol (the virus) is put into action. I know you're big on loopy time, but TPTB keep on telling us to look for the simplest explanation first.

2costa said...

in the press release that preceded the first lost experience the govtment stopped looking for oceanic and left it up to hanso foundation, just like hanso owns apollo bars., it seems a little strange that a rouge airline would be doing all this stuff

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

5) Sorry, 2costa, you're mistaken on the Oceanic/Hanso connection. There's nothing out there on that.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

2costa: There's nothing, outside of Bad Twin, that refers to 815 in TLE.

2costa said...

http://www.lostblog.net/lost/tv/show/oceanic-airlines-a-hanso-company

2costa said...

maybe they havent explicitly said it but they have implied it like the oceanic mobile around aarons crib, even if oceanic is a mittle werk company its the same thing

2costa said...

and im danr near posative that at the beginnning of the lost experience they said oceanic was bought by hanso, anyone remember that

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

The mobile only had Oceanic logos in Claire's dream. In reality, it was just an airplane mobile.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Check Lostpedia. Zero mention of that, and I have no personal recollection of that claim.

2costa said...

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/archive/index.php/t-41472.html

just a cooincidenct that the plane was loaded with widmore labs pregnancty tests and the island stocked with widmore c4???

2costa said...

oceanic was founded the year of the orientation film hmmmm and mittleos had their own airport

2costa said...

the black rock owned by magnus hanso left from slip 23 and oceanic left from departure gate 23

2costa said...

i even if its not been explicitly pointed out i think its still a good possability

Melissa_Lossa said...

The way that Charlotte marched right into that excavation site and dug exactly where the Hydra collar was leads me to believe that she knew it would be there - maybe she's found these before in other places?

If that's the case, this is really interesting. We've always been led to believe that DHARMA's experiments were confined to the island. But perhaps not.

2costa said...

i think i was remembering hansoair and that was a hoax, but i still think itsa dharma company

2costa said...

i really think that the collar was a mind f#%&#$ck

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Possibility is one thing. Stating it as if it were widely-known fact is something else.

I've seen no convincing evidence of such a connection. I think Widmore is just supposed to represent a very insidious presence, everywhere. Like GE.

Kimberly-Clark makes like every single personal hygiene product in the universe. I wouldn't assume they were involved with Hanso just because someone mentioned "Kleenex" on both the Island and the plane.

Capcom said...

Great thoughts LoCos!

If TPTB make Jack able to successfully fly a helocopter, after only a few lessens in a Cessna, I will have to heavily drug myself to achieve suspension of disbelief on that one! :o)

But, I really like the idea of cloning people to move their soul/spirit on to another "host", or anything to that effect...so go figure, heheh.

Wow, C.S. Lewis, interesting!

Patchy working with whomever pays him the most and turning loyalty at anh time, is something I've always liked too.

Widmore = GE...great analogy!! :-D

Happy B-day Picsel! *<:o)

Sayid'sgirl said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sayid'sgirl said...

capcom said:
If TPTB make Jack able to successfully fly a helocopter, after only a few lessens in a Cessna, I will have to heavily drug myself to achieve suspension of disbelief on that one! :o)


I'd have to agree with you on that. A plane and a helicopter are two completely different things.
Although I wouldn't put it past Jack to try it.

Capcom said...

That is most definitely true about Jack, Sayidsgirl. Of course, if Parrothead is injured badly, maybe he'll be able to "talk" Jack into the air and back to the freighter. I'd only need a few drinks for that one to stick. :-)

2costa said...

you rght kyle they have never explicitly said it another reason i think it is was lockes sweat house vision of desmond and hurley working for oceanic or the oceanic logo on hurley shrinks bookshelf

blueheron13 said...

Favorite line of the episode:

"I saw a cow."

2costa said...

or the fact that the oceanic emblem is in the style of an aboriginal glyph, just like the dharma stuff has glyphs

Sayid'sgirl said...

Yeah, I "might" be able to accept that.

2costa said...

the polar bear being in a place that had pyramids and probably hiroglyphs really reminded me of stargate. I think charlotte may be their for her anthroplogivcal skills

maven said...

First off: Happy Birthday to Picsel and Scoutpost!

So happy to see part of our Find815 ARG made it into the show!

Here are some initial thoughts. All of your great comments reflect what I've been thinking, too (excuse me for not quoting people directly...there's just too many comments):

1. Love everyone's nicknames and take on the Freighter 4. Jess had a good idea that all of them have reasons to be there. They also have "special" talents to be there. Someone mentioned that the Team could be there to correct that hatch implosion. Do they know Ben was the leader of the Purge? They also might be there for Ben because he can lead them to Jacob. That's why they need Miles...to channel him. Charlotte seems to be a Dharma expert, and kooky Dan seems to understand the strange properties of the island. Frank was needed because he was the only one who could fly and land on the island.

2. One of the big questions is: Who is the man on the boat for Ben? I like the Michael theory...it's the first thing I thought of. It would be an easy way to get Michael back into the story. And it could have been part of the deal (that we didn't see, of course) between Michael and Ben. Or Ben knew that Michael would run into that freighter when he gave him the bearings. I know there's a lot of holes in this. Another person could be George Minkowski Regina did seem to have the same accent as Naomi, and she did seem like she did, like a gun held to her head. Didn't Miles ask Regina that he needed to talk to Mikhael? Patchy?

3. Good call on the sister line being code.

4. The time line is driving me crazy! From Find815 we know that the freckage is prior to Christmas 2004...probably early December. Who ever planted that could have been getting the team together and equipping the freighter at the same time, so they can be at the island at Christmas (or Christmas Eve). But the Team was just hearing about the discovery of the freckage in their FBs. So they must have been recruited pretty fast to make it on the freighter and the island by Christmas. ?????

5. Loved the look Locke gave Hurley regarding the cabin. Locke seemed impressed that Jacob showed himself to Hurley.

6.What's up with Dan? Is he just the kooky Professor and why is he dressed in a tie? Why is Charlotte the only one with a bullet-proof vest? Why does Miles cover-up his "gift" and says he just collects dirt samples? I think Miles' special vacuum is just a prop to cover-up that he can talk to dead people.

7. Now Frank realizes that the wreckage was a freckage. Does all the other Team members know this? Apparently, because they have a manifest of those on the plane (and Juliet's not on the list). They know they were going to find the 815 people on the island.

8. I think the polar bear skeleton in Tunisia was part of the world-wide Dharma experiments to see it polar bears can survive in different environments; desert, island, etc. Charlotte appears to be a Dharma junkie! LOL Maybe she's related to the DeGroots?

9. Interesting that the one question Locke asks Ben is who Smokey is?

10. The picture of Ben seems to be from the Dharma Days. He appears to be in a leisure suit. LOL He looks like he did about the time of the Purge. So he can get on and off the island, like Richard. How does he explain his absences to his people?

11. Ange: Like your idea that "professional" ROV guys took over from our Sam. Or they were used to "confirm" the freckage.

12. Abaddon doesn't have very fancy offices, does he? This covert plan of his probably involves killing everyone except Ben. Why? I feel that Naomi knows the wreckage is fake and that there are 815 survivors on the island. I like the idea now that Abaddon question's Hurley about "Are they still alive" meaning the THEY to be the 4 Team members.

13. (Baker's dozen!) I'll have to think some more as to the makeup of the O6 and how this relates to last night's show. I do like the idea the either Jack or Sayid have to fly the copter out. And they can only get 6 on it (even though it seats 4 plus pilot). And they have to leave others behind, including the Team. If they land on the freighter, they can't get back (only Frank seems to be able to land a craft on the island).

memphish said...

I laughed at the GE thing too.

Capcom, I agree that there will need to be great suspension of disbelief that a few plane flying lessons can translate into flying a helicopter. But it's the best explanation I can come up with for Jack to leave people on the Island. There has to be a reason why Jack would go when there were others who could take his place, and the only 2 reasons I can come up with are 1) he has to fly them off or 2) someone is so sick they need constant medical attention.

2costa said...

the way that ladipus doesnt bring anything to the equation but his pilot skill makes me think hes their for another reason and may still be in play to become jacob. i think it contrasted jack and hurley having to fight to get on the plane and ironically being part of the oceanic six, ladipus was prolly too hung over to fly that day and that irked fate or whoever wanted him to be their

2costa said...

i think sayid is gonna pilot it off didnt he say he could fly it
, i have a feeling hes gonna be the oceanic 6 they reveal next week

memphish said...

I think Locke asks about Smokey because other than walking Smokey was the first thing about the Island that Locke connected with -- eye of the Island, beautiful, all that. In fact maybe Locke is finally starting to question that the Island may not be good or benign.

2costa said...

in a way locke is sort of like bush in the way that he has all the people on his side fighting this war that they dont know why their fighting,most want to leave the island but are sceptical of the freightys, but thats a far cry from fighting to stay on the island

2costa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
memphish said...

I thought Sayid just said it could fly. I don't think he's a pilot, just using his mechanical skills. Based on where everyone is at this point, I'd say the 6 are Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Claire and Aaron. Or you might substitute Sawyer for Sayid.

2costa said...

and i think hugo apology to jack was because he was the first one to follow locke and everyone else followed him and he feels guilty because he thinks that if he went with jack the rest would follow suit. Now everyone with locke is seen as a hgostile and some how gone lord of the flies carzy

2costa said...

i think sawyer doesnt make it off, i think it was very back to the future how miles didnt want sayid to call anyone else cause it would mess up the space time continueum. he said something like id could change a lot of stuff

Sayid'sgirl said...

maven said:
6. ...Why is Charlotte the only one with a bullet-proof vest?...

Here's my take on that. They didn't expect the helicopter to go out of control. They were going to land and then get prepared after that. While the helicopter is going out of control. Charlotte says she can't find her vest. Miles says here take mine. Miles thew Dan out of the helicopter before he was prepared. And I don't think Parrot Head pilot really cares. Plus maybe he was only there for his piloting skills.

2costa said...

why were all the frieghtys having this weird reaction to the news of flight 815, i think it might have been like desmonds deja vu he felt after he turned the failsafe, if only fools are trapped by time and space, then it would reson that everyone that ever goes ot the island will have those crazy deja vu feelings...

2costa said...

i like calling ladipus parrothead thats awsome i hope that sticks, maybe well have some cheesburgers in paradise like julliette brought jack

DiggityDirge said...

Pinkhamster said...
How come no one else has mentioned that when Miles talked on the phone the last time, that the person he was talking to sounded exactly like Naomi? I think he was using the phone to talk to Naomi. Right after he hangs up he says they can leave her body there because "it's just meat." He knows that because he just talked to her ghost on the phone. Has anyone relistened to that call and knows for sure that wasn't Naomi on the phone?

Can you clarify this. I'm way confused. Are you talking about the end of epi 1

2costa said...

proably not a cooincidence that ladipus saw the cow, after julliette brought jack the cheesburger and went into the whole fuss she had to go to to make it including butchering the cow... Cheesburgers in paradise, the lost writers are awsome

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

2costa, there aren't any pyramids in Tunisia.

2costa said...

maybe she does have a twin sister and miles was just talking smack, because farraday didnt seem to know that code, it did sound just like naomi

Capcom said...

I really liked the aspect that Dan noticed the ambient island light effect. I hope that TPTB talk more about that soon.

I think it's a possibility about restarting the magnetic harnessing thingy in the Swan, maybe. If the magnetism is still there, they could possibly build another containment system perhaps. Although, in my head, I keep thinking of it in Chernoble terms, as in, the explosion/implosion blew the plug off the top of the containment and the radiation (in this case, magnetism) is just shooting out the hole at the top. But I guess if the DI did it once, they can do it again?

2costa said...

i think that minorsky or whatever is bens guy on the frieghter and he probably made up the team of freightys, it would be funny if the freightys are just as much bens pawns as anyone else on the island

chucklez3 said...

ok. here goes.

the "rescuers" are DHARMA survivors perhaps.

and Daniel is FAKING. He's not the bumbling idiot he's making himself out to be.

And what if there is no ship at all? What if the transmissions were coming from a third island? the only ones brought in from "outside" were the helicopter crew (DHARMA survivors who have been offered a chance at revenge on Ben). OR....there is a ship, but Michael is the inside man. And I know someone mentioned this today already. However, I said way back when that Michale was never really RELEASED to civilization. I think he may have been sent to this group of people from the get-go.

Eh.....anyhoo....good morning. gotta run and take care of a couple of things.

Lost 2010 said...

I didn't realize there were four seats PLUS the pilot. This lends itself to one of two scenarios for me:

Aaron is one of the O6 and doesn't take up much room.

OR

Someone's making this flight James Bond-style - hanging off the (oh crap - what are the called?) feet things that the chopper sits on. I'm thinking of a scene where Jack has put all the potential pregos on the chopper and he's about to be shot and he grabs onto the chopper and dangles precariously as they escape. I'm leaning toward Sayid piloting this baby out of here if it's not Jack.

Sayid'sgirl said...

diggitydirge
I think pinkhamster is refering to near the end of epi. 2 Where Kate and Dan are carrting Naomi's dead body to the helicopter. Miles says the shouldn't take cause it would be to much weight. She's just meat.
He then gets the phone from Jack to talk to George and gets Regina who sounds similar to Naomi. Does this help you out?

Lost 2010 said...

No one remembers Kate or Juliet or Rose or Jin or somebody mentioning that they were ace helicopter pilots do they? Of course, Hurley did say once upon a time that in certain circles he was known as something of a warrior. Maybe he's the pilot?

2costa said...

capcom your right on the money, the swan is still there the producers have said so they said its a compact piece of metal from the implosion, and yes the magnatism of the island effects how sunlight scattered, i think that all the frieghty s had weird motivation to be on this trip just like the 815'ers
. the collar manipulated red haired girl, the false identification manipulated parrot head and the unique phtsics of the island peaked farraday interests and the ghostly presence of the island got miles there

DiggityDirge said...

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...
Check Lostpedia. Zero mention of that, and I have no personal recollection of that claim.

I agree with Kyle. I don't remember seeing any official connection between the two.

Sayid'sgirl said...

diggity
I think I may have gotten the phone conversation and the carrying of Naomi's body to the helicopter reversed. The conversation should come first. Then the bring Naomi. Sorry. I guess I just added to your confusion.

chucklez3 said...

Naomi's body is just "meat" because it no longer "houses" her spirit. When he was with her body in the jungle, he spoke to her spirit, which is why he verified jack and kate were telling the truth.

He was merely stating that the body is dead weight (no pun intended) and since he "released" her spirit from PURGATORY (because she had something to finish), then the body was just unnecessary.

The island has a way of keeping spirits there perhaps. Maybe the astral plane for purgatory is existing at the same level as normal life. That's why Jacob is still there. He's a ghost. And he said "help me" cuz he can't leave.

Capcom said...

I don't think that Dan is faking anything, it's just this actor's usual quirky acting style. He's kind of like that in his role in Solaris as well.

2costa said...

naomi has already healed on the island maybe she will heal again mikhail style. Miles is real operator doing the fake passed out thing with his gun at the ready...

2costa said...

the way charolotte was all surprised that aaron was born on the island seems to indicate she knows all about the fertility problem

2costa said...

i think it is clear that mikhail and klugh were more loyal to the lance riddick character than ben, thats how mikhail showed up out of nowhere to save naomi the first time and as i mentioned permanently unjammed the signal

Lost 2010 said...

I'm not sure about Charlotte being surprised as much as she is trying to make them all think that's she's definitely and for sure there to rescue them. She's got a little bit of the Season One Locke take to the island, although without the cool knife throwing skills.

Lost 2010 said...

I'm starting to beat dead horses, I believe. I'll see you guys next week. Can't wait!!

2costa said...

i just wonder if the orchid video was a red herring, or it is really how the polar bear ended up in tunesia or the second plane appeared underwater, because its becomeing clear that the other plane was a fake, maybe the pilot was killed on the pilot because he was the wrong guy they wanted parrot head there and they made some tweaks to get him there

chucklez3 said...

of course they know about the fertility problem (and ben). they're DHARMA survivors. haha.

Capcom said...

Re: Charlotte knowing about the fertility problem...me too also!

And I still just want to know how the heck Naomi got that knife out of her upper back!! It looks to be right in the place where you can't even reach to scratch. :-B

DiggityDirge said...

thanks Sayids Gril..that cleared it up

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

2costa, Mikhail came upon Naomi and the campers because Hurley accidentally shot off the flare gun. And seriously, Mikhail did not disable the jamming signal. He used the walkie talkies after Ben had given an order for radio silence from the Looking Glass.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Did anyone else want to shake Locke during his first scenes in this episode? When he was standing up on that little hill, basking in the rain, with everyone else staring up at him, I just wanted to say, "You're losing them, John! Stop acting like a crazy person - you're losing them!"

If I were him, I'd put the island crazy on hold for a little bit, until I was sure that these people weren't going to change their minds and go with Jack.

2costa said...

i think it was super awsome that lockes lack of a kidney saved his life from ben gunshot, my only question was did ben shoot him there on purpose to cement lockes destiny feelings, i always thought it was strange that ben shot him in the gut. Or did the mrs. hawkings of the world make sure locke didnt have a kidney there so he would survive bens attack...

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Correction. He didn't use the walkie talkies, but he didn't disable the jammer. He only communicated back to the Island, to Ben.

DiggityDirge said...

here are two questions that I would love to hear some repsonses to. I like the idea that Ben has gone rougue and is running the island on his own terms, but I still think Widmore is involved somehow.

1. The picture of Ben was weird. It was definetly 70's style, and the computer monitor on the counter had no cords coming out of it. No power plug or VGA connector.

2. So if they are there for Ben, why did Naomi have a picture of Desmond and Penny?

2costa said...

mikhail permanently unjammed the signal by waiting for charlie to crack the code then flooding the com section of the looking glass

2costa said...

ben looked pissed every time mikhail showed up again, and ben odered mikhail to get charlie not kill the two looking glass girls

Capcom said...

Exactly Melissa! Last thing a leader should do is lose the confidence of the followers due to reasons of insanity.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Okay, that's just playing with language. He was trying to kill Charlie, as he was ordered by Ben. The fact that Charlie had already opened the frequency was unknown to Mikhail, because he was outside the station already.

2costa said...

because desmond is the only one that should have been there pushing the swan button, perhaps thats why walt said not to open the hatch in the first place, if youll recall locke only found the swan after following the second set of tracks when ethan took claire and charlie, its obvious to me that ben wanted them to go into the swan and ultuimately have locke think pushing the button was meaningless

Capcom said...

The fate of the kidney did really open up a lot a angles here, didn't it?!

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

2costa, Ben ordered Mikhail to kill everyone.

2costa said...

rewatch the episode mikhail wa slying on the floor seemingly dead 30 seconds before charlie unjammed the signal, just like he was lying in wait in the flame and didnt attack locke until after he beat the chess program and right before he pressed 77

bigdog said...

off topic.. do claire and jack know they are related yet?

maven said...

Diggity: I'll try to answer your #2 question: I think the Penny/Desmond angle is part of a cover-up of their true purpose on the island: Ben/Jacob. Which leads me to believe that Widmore is still behind this thing...Abaddon could be his employee or front man. They needed the cover-up as to not arouse the survivors suspicions to their true purpose...they needed a rouse so they could go about their business.

2costa said...

ok but ben wanted the signal jammed thats why he didnt give mikhail the code so mikhail waited for charlie to figure out the code with his musical skill, just like that gave sme clarity to why charlie was on the islan, much like how in lockes first flashbacks he was playing mousetrap and backgammon with locke and said he loves games and he wa s the one to beat the chess program three times or whatever

2costa said...

i meant with walt

Sayid'sgirl said...

The ROV guys said that they were heading on a bearing of about 137 from the coordinates they pulled off their guys map.
Wasn't Michael's heading to leave the island 136? Or am I wrong?

chucklez3 said...

melissa and capcom: true. however, what if locke is being led by the island to basically keep them there for whatever reason. making locke do what the island has been unable to itself?

Locke may not necessarily be a "savior" here. He murdered Naomi and had Sawyer kill his dad (because he was manipulated to do so). Yeah.....not exactly the endearing qualities that you want a "spiritual" leader to have.

memphish said...

2Costa, This is from TTLG:

Ben is talking to Mikhail when Ben calls down to the Looking Glass and Mikhail answers. Mikhail closes the door behind him before talking to Ben.
Ben:I need you to help me. I need you to help me clean up this mess that I've made. I need you to kill Charlie. Make sure that the jamming mechanism continues to function at all costs. And we can't risk Greta and Bonnie telling the others about what we've done, so you'll have to take care of them too.

maven said...

When Locke pointed out the bullet went through him where a kidney used to be (one of the reasons that Locke survived the shooting that were circulating around here), I instantly thought: Coincidence or Fate? Everything happens for a reason. Locke was pre-ordained to give that kidney to Cooper for this very reason.

2costa said...

i dont think the freightys are anything more than the latest cataways. I bet they will show serendipity to others from the island just like desomnd wasnt on the flight but crossed paths with jack and libby before

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

bigdog: No, not yet. Argh!

But with Christian's apparent importance this season, I don't think it'll be long before they figure it out.

2costa said...

ok ill give you that he wanted everyone dead but you proved the other point of my thing that ben wanted the signal jammed at all costs not permanaently unjammed

chucklez3 said...

sayid's girl: doesn't matter. a bearing of 136 means you're coming FROM a certain point and have to take THAT particular angle from where you are to get to point b. actually, the fact that if you're right and they used 137, means they were pretty close to the island in the beginning.

could be meaningless though.

memphish said...

Chucklez said:The island has a way of keeping spirits there perhaps. Maybe the astral plane for purgatory is existing at the same level as normal life. That's why Jacob is still there. He's a ghost. And he said "help me" cuz he can't leave.

I think we were definitely seeing this sort of thing last week with Hurley seeing the cabin with Christian Shephard and later Charlie off-Island. I think the world these souls inhabit is generally not perceivable, but there's something about the Island or what the Island (I think it's the magnetism) has done to Hurley that gives him this perception. What's more Hurley can somewhat control it when he focuses to make it disappear. Maybe Miles dustbuster actually sets up a sort of magnetic field that allows him this same sort of perception, though he didn't use it to commune with Naomi. But on Island you've got magnetism already.

scoutpost said...

Still catching up on comments, so this is holding my place. But also-

The ideas about how the O6 leave are interesting. What if Hurley (because of his weight) jeopardizes or keeps others from leaving...in other words, maybe they could've taken more, but Hurley took the place of 2 people kind of thing. I like the idea re: Jack flying the helicopter. And, also good thinking re: Abaddon- maybe he is asking about the F4 being alive and not the Oceanic people. Or maybe he's talking about Ben and allies he has....of course Hurley wouldn't care about Ben.

Happy Birthday Picsel!!

memphish said...

Sayid's Girl, the bearing was 325 from the Pala pier.

memphish said...

And Happy Birthday Scoutpost!

2costa said...

mikhail was pissed off that ben never gave him the code, and ben hijacking the islnand and jamming the signal may be why they want him on the freighter. Theres practically no way that riddick character could know that ben was leading the others or survived the purge, if they were allys at some point. obviously the swan was supposed to be left alone, but ben let himself get captured in the swan to get locke to do his dirty work and stop pushing the button, ben has intimate knowledge of the island the way he and julliette were in the pearl in expose shows he could have taken over the swan at any time, he didnt for one of two reasons, either he left the swan untouched to keep the others secret on the island or he left desmond alone because he was working with the freightys boss and wasnt supposed to mess with the timeline

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

You do not know that Mikhail knew Charlie had unlocked the jammer. You are presuming again, which is one of the more challenging parts of reading your theories. They can be interesting, but you assume so much to be "obviously true" that it makes people (me, at least) have to go back and doublecheck everything you say to see if it's true or not.

Maybe just be a little less definitive when you're stating your personal ideas. We all know that chucklez is a Purgatory fan; when he talks about it, we know that it's coming from his perspective. With you, it's really hard to tell whether you know something to be fact from source, or whether you just feel strongly that it's true.

Al said...

It definitely seems like Charlotte is the most knowledgeable besides Naomi. Lapidus just seems like he wants closure or explanations for his pilot buddy. Charlotte and Frank both discovered something about Darmha/Oceanic Flight "possible cover up ocean discovery".
Miles is just a wierd dude who can talk to dead people, possibly there to interpret answers in case everyone was dead.
Not too sure about Faraday, seems to be a real mystery.
ESPECIALLY with those tears and all at the news report and with his wife/girlfriend not knowing the reason for his sadness

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