Friday, February 08, 2008

Confirmed Dead - Season 4, Episode 2 (Post 2)


Sorry. I know this screen cap isn't from this episode, but we had to pay homage to one of the greatest Sawyer lines yet. "Why question the word of taller ghost Walt?" Priceless. Enjoy your "lag alleviation" post!

207 comments:

1 – 200 of 207   Newer›   Newest»
memphish said...

My new Charlotte theory is that she's the child of a Dharma scientist as was hinted at in TLE. That's why she's so excited to find the collar.

2costa said...

hey just to funk things up about the thought of the fantastic four being there before, what if miles is jin and suns kid, i mean in the time loop way. Another though anyone remeber x-files how there was the clan of russians that had one arm because they wanted to cut off their microchips, maybe thats why mikhail has one eye or radzinsky had a glass eye in the bible or they allway just sho one eye for flashbacks or one eye in jacobs shack, seeing is an important theme, didnt the egyptians(charlotte/glyph clock)
beleive that our patuatary gland is our third eye so to speak or penial gland, one of those two

Capcom said...

You're absolutely correct about the pic David! :-D

Or, they all had some bad frontal lobotomies that poked their eyes out, 2costa. :-B

Capcom said...

I like that Memphish!

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

I think Charlotte, for being the most annoying freightie, will be the most interesting from a "mythology" standpoint (to do my own fall-back on X-Files lingo).

Wasn't Sawyer's "Col. Kurtz" the first honest-to-god nickname in a good few episodes? Other than calling Desmond "Scottie," which might have been a nickname or might have been a reference to his nationality, I can't think of the last one he used.

2costa said...

i rememer before i saw a thing on history channell about how the greek islands are weird because there is alot of volcanic activity under them, and there are a treasure trove of dinosaur bones there. The greks would find these big bones and put them together like a human skeleton and thats why they thought the titans were giants, becaus eyou can put together most mammal bones to look like a human figure,or mamil precursers like wooly mamoths, i just think somehow that could relate to the big four toed statue. I know plenty of conspiricy theorists that think aliens or higher life forms made contact with the acient greeks and egyptians to dsomehow explain why they were so advenced but society took stes backwards..

2costa said...

steps backward

DiggityDirge said...

I think her finding the collar is just to lend credence towards the fact that Dharma was doing experiments all over the world. It would be a direct tie to TLE.

It was so long ago I don't remember all of the experiments and where they were.

It could also have something to do with a rouse to make people think the island is one of those regions.

scoutpost said...

Ok random thought here...
I was thinking like some of you, how odd it is- that with all the trekking through the jungle, at the cockpit, etc. and with all the newbies to the island- that Old Smokey is MIA. Then I thought...Jacob's cabin is moving and either J.Wood or Doc Jensen guessed that maybe Locke had removed the ash ring. Last season we questioned whether the ash ring was smokey in a dormant form. Smokey is reportedly a security system (security to protect the island from Jacob?), and of course it looks like with all the activity that the island security system is on the fritz (as memphish said). So what if Jacob's shack moving around is because Locke tinkered with the ring and that the ring is indeed Old Smokey? And of all the questions Locke could've asked Ben, he asked what the Black Smoke was...maybe Locke is on to something?

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

There were a lot of Africa projects, but most of them were sub-Saharan. Zanzibar and whatnot.

scoutpost said...

Oh and I would like to say that for all the back and forth, Kyle and 2costa- you guys did a good job of staying civil.

And, thanks for all the birthday wishes :)

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

scoutpost: I think there is a LOT of off-screen kibbutzing that Locke is doing with the forces at play on the Island, that are leading him in very specific directions. Don't you feel like he's been blessed with a different kind of assurance than that which he's displayed previously? Before, it was all "I believe the Island will show us what to do". Now, it's "We have to go here", or "we need to go to X." He's got inside info. Time will tell when we get to know what it is.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Oh, happy birthday scoutpost and picsel!! I keep forgetting to say that. :)

scoutpost said...

Hey Kyle- yeah Locke is acting more island in-tune and confident than he has in a long time, but even his S1 self wasn't as self assured as he is now.

memphish said...

Scoutpost, I'd say Locke heading to the cabin should dispel our speculations that he'd been messing with the ash ring. I don't think Locke had any idea that he was so "near" the cabin when he found Hurley.

Capcom said...

I still can't decide of Locke is more self-assured or more delusional. :o)

scoutpost said...

True memphish and capcom.

Although sometimes the craziest people are the most self assured- just mistakenly so! :0

MoreLostThanU said...

Did any of you notice the look Ben gave to Locke when Hurley said that he had seen the cabin? To me the look said, "John, What did you do?" As in he "helped" Jacob by releasing him to roam the island.

Ange said...

Happy birthday Scoutpost and Picsel (Picobyte)! I just had to read through 484 comments to say that!!

I just threw all of my "comment notes" out the window because everything I had to add or comment about has already been said eleventeen times :).

All I have left to add right now (not reading Doc Jensen yet) is that my gut was the dustbuster ghost hunter ting was there as a prop. He made it a point to put it together in front of the mother and he did not need it to talk to Naomi. I think he was just trying to give his clients a little bang for their buck a la Ghostbusters before the actual ghosts showed up.

Sayid'sgirl said...

scoutpost
You probably missed this it was last on the previous post. I wanted to wish you a Happy Birthday!
Now to catch up on the few post here.

Sayid'sgirl said...

Don't know if you guys seen this from the last post so I thought I'd bring it over here.

Hey Chucklez
Good to see you.
Thanks about the coordinates. I guess it depends on where point A and point B is.

memphish
Thanks. I couldn't remember the bearing. It sounded similar to Michael's to me. Guess I wasn't close.

Sayid'sgirl said...

Yea! I'm finally caught up!

Dennis said...

Repost from old thread:

memphish said... Were they going to gas the Island and then find Ben's body. I guess that's what that case of masks and biohazard material might indicate.

Maybe they know about Ben's purge, and the gas masks are for their own protection against Ben. It easy to forget that Ben is a mass-murderer.

Blogger Lost 2010 said... So I'm the only one that thinks Ben's plant on the boat is Michael or Walt?

Even if Michael is on the boat, he wouldn't be working for Ben, and he wouldn't have all that information on the crew. Must be another Other who is on assignment, like TLG girls.

Capcom said... Does anyone besides me find it weird that a dead person could have a flashback? Are TPTB changing their rules?
I think it was an Abaddon flashback :)

jess4ua said... Or maybe it is all a coincidence.

Eko said: "Don't mistake conicidence for fate"

picsel said... its my birthday today

Happy Birthday Picsel!

Lost 2010 said... Love the idea that Jack's the only one who can fly.
I don't think taking plane flying lessons qualifies you to fly a helicopter. If anything, Sayid probably learned how to fly a helicopter in the Republican Guard, which could make him the next O6.

2costa said... lance riddick, red haired lady, etc...

Can we please stick to using actual character names? your posts are confusing enough....

Codysmom said...

Whew.....
That took a looonnnnggg time to catch up, but isn't it great....
LOST IS BACK!! and it sure has us talking!!!

Happy Birthday Picsel!
Happy Birthday Scoutpost!

Dennis said...

Yea! I'm finally caught up!

Happy Birthday to Scoutpost too!

Sorry for another long post...

maven said... Ange: Like your idea that "professional" ROV guys took over from our Sam. Or they were used to "confirm" the freckage.

They sounded surprise to find the freckage, unless that was part of the setup, but then what would Sam think if he saw that footage.

Lost 2010 said... I didn't realize there were four seats PLUS the pilot. This lends itself to one of two scenarios for me: Aaron is one of the O6 and doesn't take up much room.

That's a good point about the seating, so if Claire and Aaron are two, that leaves the pilot spot for Sayid. Poor Sun.

Sayid'sgirl said... diggitydirge I think pinkhamster is refering to near the end of epi. 2 Where Kate and Dan are carrting Naomi's dead body to the helicopter. Miles says the shouldn't take cause it would be to much weight. She's just meat.

If the weight of the passengers is an issue fuel-wise, why would they take Hurley?

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said... with Christian's apparent importance this season, I don't think it'll be long before they figure it out.

Maybe they will both see Christian and say simultaneously, "OMG, that's my dad!"

ular97 said... 2costa: how many words per minute can you type? :=D

Must be only 10wpm when you deduct all the typos :)

Dennis said...

Ok, last one :)

This one's just for 2costa...

2costa said... why were all the frieghtys having this weird reaction to the news of flight 815

I think it is just because it is a huge worldwide news story anytime a plane crashes under mysterious circumstances. but I like the theory that Daniel was supposed to be on that flight for whatever reason.

2costa said... i like calling ladipus parrothead thats awsome i hope that sticks,

Please don't. The writers of the show made sure everyone has unique first names, so it is EASY to identify people. We don't need 50 nicknames for everyone. Lets try to stick to Daniel, Miles, Charlotte, Frank and th "Freighter 4".

2costa said... i just wonder if the orchid video was a red herring

I think it was just a spoof for comic-con

2costa said... there when he gould have just pitched a grenade in there when desmond wasnt looking. it makes me think he wanted to leave the looking glass intact and just mess up the jamming room

Mikhail asked what would happed if the station was flooded, and they said the signal would continue to be jammed. Since Mikhail's mission was to kill Charlie and prevent the signal from getting unjammed, he "slipped away" into the water when they weren't noticing, and blew up one of the outside windows in order to flood the station. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about that.

Even if you think he was still there when she gave Charlie the code (which I don't think he was), he wouldn't have know that Charlie had already turned off the jammer.

BTW, why are we rehashing all this Season 3 stuff?

2costa said... next your gonna say ben really desnt know what the smoke is?

You proved your own point. Ben was Dharma, but he was just a Janitor's son. How would he know what the smoke monster was, or where the Swan station was? Ben only found out about the swan after the Losties found it, and then only knew of it's existence, not it's location.

2costa said... let us not forget XXXX XXXX XXXXXXX according to the producers,

NO SPOILERS PLEASE!!

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Dennis: How much can we say about the Orchid Orientation Film?

memphish said...

Just my $.02, buy I say the Orchid video is fair game. It's been everywhere for months and was released on the S3 DVDs, and it was introduced by Darlton.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

I guess I'm not concerned so much about the content of the film itself, but of the discussion of whether it is canon or not. There are topics that can be discussed that would address its canonicity, but those topics might themselves be spoilers.

Melissa_Lossa said...

About Daniel being someone who was supposed to be on the plane - if that was the case, wouldn't he know why finding the wreckage made him so upset? Knowing that a flight you were supposed to be had probably crashed and that everyone was probably dead would be upsetting enough - getting confirmation would be fairly emotional, I would think. However, he doesn't seem to know why the news makes him so upset.

Did we ever see the face of his wife/girlfriend/housekeeper who asks if he's okay? If not, that could be something. Or, that could be a stretch. :)

Melissa_Lossa said...

Since the Orchid film was made by the Lost team, and included on the DVDs, I would say it is canon - at least as far as saying that it was supposedly recorded by Dr. whats-his-name-this-time for the DHARMA Initiative.

How much it ties into the actual show is anybody's guess, but I doubt that TPTB would put something out there that is completely off base.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Stretch theory: He and his girlfriend/wife were the couple that was going to adopt Claire's baby.

Flaw: His flashback, right at the time of the freckage discovery, was set in Massachusetts.

Less of a stretch theory, taken from Lostpedia: He is Ana-Lucia's "Danny."

Flaw: Ana-Lucia wouldn't touch a weepy physicist to punch him in the face.

Erich said...

Boy, you go away for a few hours... Good discussion everyone!

Skimmed through most of the comments, and had a few thoughts:

I like the idea that the F4 have had previous contact with DHARMA. What if they were experimented on by DHARMA as children (ala Walt), but they don't remember? (Could be why Dan didn't know why the 815 news upset him so much.) They could all either have been "special" beforehand, or had "specialness" thrust upon them by DHARMA scientists -- either on-island, or in some other facility (any of them old enough to have been part of the DeGroot's off-island research?) I like the idea that their talents were "bred" into them by DHARMA for a mission such as this -- like a group of unconventional supersoldiers.

I don't think Lock's gonna blow up the chopper. I'm clinging to Des's vision of Claire and Aaron flying away in a helicopter. Now that we've seen how much Sayid knows about the ol' whirlybird, I buy that he's one of the O6.

Dennis said...

Kyle, I think you answered your own question.

It's probably best not to discuss anything that reveals what will happens in the future.

scoutpost said...

ML- good point about Dan- you'd think he could say why he was so upset about the freckage if it were survivor type guilt. I guess he could've lied. I wonder about the other person, too. I have a feeling that she will be significant- in that it will be another flashback connection.

vozzek69 has some interesting points over on DarkUFO. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but some of his theory is very interesting.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Will do, Dennis. But for the record, I'm spoiler-free so far as I know it, but for one thing tangentially related to Orchid. The likelihood of it being a spoiler is truly unknown to me, but I'll leave it alone. If anyone wants to discuss it, they can comment on my most recent LOST-related blog post.

Dennis said...

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said... Stretch theory: He and his girlfriend/wife were the couple that was going to adopt Claire's baby.

Like the theory that he was supposed to be on the plane, if this was true, he would know why he was upset.

Sayid'sgirl said...

dennis said:
If the weight of the passengers is an issue fuel-wise, why would they take Hurley?

That is a good question. But even the pilot agreed with Miles. He said they had wasted alot of fuel flying around in the storm.
Maybe who ever did take him off the island felt it was worth the risk.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Only if he knew Claire was going to be on that specific flight. Odds are good that he would, but you never know how shoddy of a job the Aussie psychic did in setting up the meeting.

But if Daniel didn't know, then he might just have a gut suspicion that that's why the pregnant girl didn't show that day back in September.

Melissa_Lossa said...

I always thought that Richard Maltin made up that whole couple in LA thing. Didn't Claire and Charlie kind of decide that putting her on that flight was his way of ensuring that she would raise the baby herself?

Although we later had that flashback with Eko when he said he was a fake.

Although he claimed to be a conman who pretended to be psychic to get people's money. Buying Claire a plane ticket to LA kind of goes against that plan.

Although..... just kidding. :)

Melissa_Lossa said...

Kyle - I like your take on Ana Lucia. :)

DiggityDirge said...

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...
Stretch theory: He and his girlfriend/wife were the couple that was going to adopt Claire's baby.


ooh....I like that. Very plausible. Less plausible he was intended to be on the plane.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

I put up a blog post back in the day about the psychics in LOST. They all have some sort of scam or flaw about them, but when they come into contact with a LOSTie, or a LOSTie-to-be, they know SOMETHING. So far, we have three. Malkin, Isaac of Uluru, and now Miles. Miles, for being a big ol' jerk, might know the most of the three.

So yeah, I still tend to think that he wanted Claire to be on that flight for that reason, but maybe he still arranged for the couple as a back-up plan if Claire demanded names, but then told them that she was on a different flight. She doesn't show on that flight, the couple assumes it fell through, maybe Malkin tells them she got cold feet, they move on, then suddenly Danny sees a report on the TV about a lost plane, and his heart breaks. And he doesn't know why.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

correction: "that reason" = "so that she'd crash on the Island"

Dennis said...

Wasn't there some deleted scene on the DVDs about Claire and the psychic that proved or disproved something?


Scoutpost, Great DarkUFO article! I especially like the part about things coming full circle, and about why Sawyer might not be in the Oceanic 6.

2costa said...

i disagree about the swan im sure ben knew about it. Whats riddick characters name ill call him that but if i want to call the lawnmowerman parrothead i think i will. I tend to think they wouldnt have used the real mavin candle for a spoof. Wouldnt daniel girlfriend have known he was supposed to be on the flight? I just watched through the looking glass the other day and mikhail is on the floor in plain view during the good vibrations bit, and i think you proved my point about the jamming,if flooding it would have jammed it forever why would he wait for charlie to go in the room and unjam it now it will be unjammed forever. Yet i suspect the looking glass is important for other reason, maybe the sonar thats down maybe as a submarine dock, but i guess it was charlies call to save desmond and the rest of the station by closing the porthole door. I cant remember but there was a hanso tunesia tie in before, maybe on their website

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Dennis: Yep! Malkin tells Eko that he was paid by a couple to get "a girl" (Claire) to get on a plane for LA. It woulda shot holes in his primacy in the effort to get her airborne over the Pacific, but since it's a deleted scene.... Well, speaking of canon. : )

2costa said...

and just because they were anxious to get ben doesnt mean he is in trouble maybe they think these rabid 815'ers that killed naomi have him captive. the wire guy lance riddick said there were no survivors of flights 815, yet he said something about extracting more than one person, so thats open to interpretation, but one must ask oneself why would charolotte even think their were any survivors of 815 on the island if it wasnt close to the sunda trench, or was riddick just pulling a fight club, like what are you talking about there were no survviors of 815 to prompt charolotte to keep with the cover story

2costa said...

what scene is that from kyle the missing pieces?

DiggityDirge said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

< nitpicking >
Matthew Abaddon
Frank Lapidus
< /nitpicking >

Also,

Redhead anthropologist - Charlotte Staples Lewis

Scammy ghost hunter - Miles Straume

And 2costa, it's from Season 2, in the Lost Connections featurette, as a hidden Easter Egg.

DiggityDirge said...

2costa:

if flooding it would have jammed it forever why would he wait for charlie to go in the room and unjam it now it will be unjammed forever.

The equipment was cased so it would be water proof incase of a flood. Bonnie clearly tells Charlie that in TLG. That is why Charlie had to turn it off, otherwise flooding it would have done nothing.

I have no idea who you are talking about with all the nicknames.

New Creepy black guy that visits Hurley in hospital and hires Naomi - Matthew Abbadon

Jeff Fahey/Drunk pilot who was supposed to fly 815 - Frank Lepidus

whiny phsyicist - Dan Faraday

2costa said...

diggity thats what im saying that it was pointless for mikhail to flood it after the signal was unjammed unless he didnt want it to be jammed again, or else he would have just dropped the grenade right there rather then swim out and give charlie the chance to unjam it, and he obviously had such a grasp of the stations layout that he swam to exact cubicle charlie was in, lets agree to disagree, but i will always think that mikhail intended on keeping the signal permanently unjammed until i see proof of something differnt

DiggityDirge said...

you nit kyle!

2costa said...

am i the only one that saw the cheesburgers in paradise tie in, seems too convenient that we see the dharma cow when frank"parrot head"ladipus sees the cow that made me think of jacks cheesburger in the hydra. For anyone that doesnt know parrot head is like the deadhead of jimmy buffet fans

Ange said...

2costa said...I cant remember but there was a hanso tunesia tie in before, maybe on their website

Negative. I just scoured Lostpedia, and each of the Hanso Foundation page entries. The only mention they have of Tunisia related to Find 815 and last night's episode. There was also a very slight mention of a map that was upside-down.

I feel like my head is going to explode from trying to keep up with comments...I think I quit.

2costa said...

even something as simple as daniels gas mask could be interpreted differnt ways, if their is a virus ala rousseau killing her crew then its for that, but if they know about ben and the purge it could to protect them from bens riacin gas or whatever he used for the purge...

2costa said...

well maybe it was from drepedia i know that tunesia was tatooine in return of the jedi

Carol Dunstan said...

ARGH! Darn you blogger! Anyway, I haven't finished reading comments from the initial episode post but wanted to say I thought this episode was really well done yadda yadda yadda.

Will post more when I have fully caught up and digested the episode a bit more but want to leave you with something my sister just pointed out to me: Charlotte's initials are CD Lewis :D

memphish said...

Kyle said:Less of a stretch theory, taken from Lostpedia: He is Ana-Lucia's "Danny."

Flaw: Ana-Lucia wouldn't touch a weepy physicist to punch him in the face.


LOL. I'm pretty sure Ana Lucia would have definitely punched him in the face.

Ellen said...

OMG-I just now caught up (I think!) You guys are having some really good thoughts. I can only add that my favorite line(s) from this ep are:
when Sawyer calls Ben Yoda!
and when Jack says to Miles:
"I don't know Miles, how stupid are you?"
I couldn't help but laugh (even tho I'm still sick and hacking and coughing...)
My husband thought I had lost it on the cough medicine until we rewatched the ep...then he got it.
Happy
B'day to Scoutpost and Picsel!!!

BBL to read more!
xxoo

Carol Dunstan said...

dang it all, I meant CS Lewis

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Tunisia was also a set piece for the X-Files movie...apropos of nothing, I guess.

My two favorite theories (of mine, natch) that have been born of this episode are Ben's repeated use of women for secret missions, and Daniel's identity as the red herring futuredaddy for Claire's baby.

Ellen said...

Actually, Carol-her initials are C. S. Lewis-Charlotte Staples Lewis...
xxoo

memphish said...

I noticed this last night, but don't know what it means. Daniel's flashback is in Essex, Mass. Charlotte's resume as recited by Ben included something in Essex, presumably in England. Both of these places seem relatively small and insignificant per Wikipedia, so why tie them both to the name? My first thought with Essex was the whaling ship Essex whose story involves being stranded on an Island, cannibalism and some, but not all of the survivors managing to return home.

Ellen said...

Sorry, hard to keep up with these massive posts....yes Carol, you are correct...
xxoo

2costa said...

my favorite funny fan moment was when locke finally broke down ben and could have asked him anything he wanted,then asked him what the smoke monster was. i have to agree that i think hurley didnt see the actual cabin he saw a projection of the cabin because if locke moved the ash ring, which he never had time to do, maybe after he knifed naomi, then he wouldnt have been going to the original location of the cabin. like i said last week christain being in the cabin was big

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Well, kids, it's time for the weekend, which means less computer time (note that I didn't say "none," because have you seen the snow we're getting up here? it's crazy! i could get blocked in by a drift falling over!).

Keep fingers crossed for a happy resolution to the strike tomorrow!

chucklez3 said...

melissa: (side-note), comparing Ben and Danielle to each other in terms of knowledge of the island is apples and oranges.

Ben (LEADER of the "others") and seems to know everything ELSE about the island, would in fact know where one of the nine major stations is located. Logically, he would.

Danielle on the other hand basically has been "surviving" after her "escape" and probably limits herself (as mentioned on the show at one point) to certain spots on the island. She doesn't just meander precariously through the jungle and on the beach, learning the ins and outs of the island.

Two totally different monkeys here altogether.

anyhoo.....off to work.

g-nite all.

DiggityDirge said...

I fogot to ask. Did anyone see the cut out scene that was on GMA today? I'm sure it was nothing.

memphish said...

I didn't realize there was going to be a scene on GMA today. I did a quick Youtube, DarkUFO, LostMedia and GMA search as well as check the ABC LOST site and couldn't find it. If anyone does find it, please post the link.

Twinkle said...

Guess what? I managed to watch the episode!

kyle said:
*very sensitive physicist
*conniving paranormal investigator
*former Oceanic pilot, very skilled and literate on the survivors (and who isn't a survivor)
*very ambitious DHARMA hunter

This is a very interesting team.


Yes! I'm totally digging it! They also mentioned the pilot Lapidus was a drunk. I assumed he wasn't allowed to pilot 815 because he showed up to work drunk (or didn't show up at all). Some have questions what Lapidus brings to the table more than piloting skills. He's intimately equated with the details about 815. Picking him to be on the team is an admission that they knew there were survivors on the island.

It seems to me that each person in the team is just the expert that is needed to provide the fans with answers.

chucklez: I love the idea that Miles is there to help Jacob's spirit move on.

Melissa_Lossa: Yes, they're all adorable, even Lapidus in a Harrison Ford/six Days Seven Nights sort of way.

Good catch on the C.S. Lewis homage! That's one philosopher I'm familiar with! Remember how I keep saying, in jest of course, that maybe the island is what's "real" and the rest of reality is purgatory? Well, that joke is modified from something Lewis wrote! The Great Divorce, I think.

What university does Dan work for again?

RE polar bear: I agreed at first that the bear was part of world-wide experiments, but then why would it have a Hydra collar?

Happy birthdays!

takes a village said...

Happy Birthday Picsel, & Scoutpost.
Still reading,loved this one.
I think Miles downloaded all of Naomi's Island Adventure and lied when he said she wasn't killed.

Amused2bHere said...

have a good night at work, Chucklez. Don't be such a stranger around here, ok?

Twinkle said...

This is from Wikipedia

In The Great Divorce, the narrator suddenly, and inexplicably, finds himself in a grim and joyless City (the "grey town", representative of both Purgatory and Hell). He eventually finds a bus for those who desire an excursion to some other place (and which eventually turns out to be the foothills of Heaven). He enters the bus and converses with his fellow passengers as they travel. When the bus reaches its destination, the "people" on the bus — including the narrator — gradually realize that they are ghosts. Although the country is the most beautiful they have ever seen, every feature of the landscape (including streams of water and blades of grass) is unbearably solid compared to themselves: it causes them immense pain to walk on the grass, and even a single leaf is far too heavy for any of them to lift.

Shining figures, men and women whom they have known on Earth, come to meet them, and to persuade them to repent and enter Heaven proper. They promise that as the ghosts travel onward and upward, they will become acclimated to the country and will feel no discomfort. Almost all of the ghosts choose to return instead to the grey town, giving various reasons and excuses. Much of the interest of the book lies in the recognition it awakens of the plausibility and familiarity, along with the thinness and self-deception, of the excuses that the ghosts refuse to abandon, even though to do so would bring them to Reality and "joy forevermore".


So I've been joking (probably an inside joke to myself) that Jacob and the island are what's "real" and the reason that the others don't understand his reality is that they aren't "real" enough.

Twinkle said...

BTW, I noticed an innocence in the newbies/freighter four. It reminded me of the way our Losties were when they first landed and civilization was fresh in their minds before the island taught them what they'd have to do to survive.

Capcom said...

Well, about the new Hydra, perhaps they just named all their zoological stations Hydras, no matter where they were located. Then they could assign a location-specific designation to them, like Hydra-A, or Hydra-Africa. Just a guess. Of course, this is assuming that poor Beary-15 didn't get sent to Africa via the Orchid station project!

Thanks for the C.S info Twinkle. :-)

Lost 2010 said...

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...
Less of a stretch theory, taken from Lostpedia: He is Ana-Lucia's "Danny."

Flaw: Ana-Lucia wouldn't touch a weepy physicist to punch him in the face.


I like this one. Except, then wouldn't he know why he was crying?

Dennis - You must keep excellent notes. I'm amazed. By the time I finished catching up, I'm never sure exactly what I've read. But, I've come around to the Sayid as pilot too.

In a tangent - Why would you take Hurley if weight is an issue? It all depends on the rationale behind who goes and who stays. What if Hurley decides at the last minute to take Claire away from the Locks and try to get her home? What if Sawyer has the last seat on the chopper and Hurley is injured - Jack offers to give Hurley his seat and Sawyer sends the dr. with the injured? There are all sorts of reasons where I can see them sending Hurley back even if he does take up a bit more room than say, Kate.

Twinkle said...

I'm kicking myself for not seeing the connection between Charlotte and C.S. Lewis before. She even has the same middle name! :-D

maven said...

Memphish: Agree with you that giddy Charlotte is into Dharma way too much! She has to have had parents in the movement.

Kyle: Good point that Locke seems pretty cocky that his way is the right way. Standing in the rain while everybody else seeks cover under a tree, and calling it when the rain stops, sure makes Locke seem smirky.

Lost 2010 said...

I was in a 'will Locke predict the weather tonight' contest and I had yes - I was so pleased to get a point that I didn't even think about how wierd it was. :)

Amused2bHere said...

Locke in the rain...he was safer from lightning than those under the tree (aren't you NOT supposed to go under a tree in case of rain, they are more likely to be struck by lightning because they are taller, right?) I had to laugh at that whole thing.

ock_2002 said...

Under the presumption that all of these four people are special in a supernatual-ish kind of way, I think that Daniel can see auras..

Wha-?? OK let me explain.
When I was about 11, I went with my mom to this New Age psychic dude.. (Dont ask me why)
He told us about how he survived this car crash and how he now could see living/dead things with auras flowing around them. He drew us a map of my mother with all these different colors & stuff surrounding her head. He could interpret this drawing that there were a death in the family amongst other things that troubled her..

Anyways, Daniel was CRYING when he saw the sunken plane on the TV, and he mentioned somthing about the light in the jungle to Kate..

Im problably wrong about this, but Id thought Id share my aura-theory with you guys! =)

Lost 2010 said...

Meant to comment earlier - Love the front of this post. Sawyer frequently says exactly what I'm thinking - (well, not when he's coming onto women, but you get what I mean) - Why question the word of taller ghost Walt? - Indeed.

memphish said...

Lost 2010, When we get tons of comments like this I open a Word file and cut and paste so that I can accurately quote and give attribution to folks.

And I could totally see Sawyer making Jack take his seat because someone is injured or just because he's a guy who can do some good back in the real world unlike Sawyer. You know like what Ben was saying to James yesterday.

So how long would it take a polar bear to turn into nothing but bones and a collar? I think 2Costa is right that it's a plant to entice CS Lewis on the trek.

And finally, for now, that shot of Locke in the rain was a callback to a number of shots in S1. To me it looked more like when he told Boone it was about to rain in All The Best Cowboys . . ., but it's also reminiscent of his soaking in the rain in the Pilot.

Lost 2010 said...

memphish - Ah! I was wondering how you all did it - by the time I wade through, I lose all the threads I wanted to talk about. I will steal your trick if you don't mind.

memphish said...

That's why I shared Lost 2010.

I really like Vozzek's opening about our LOSTies becoming the Others. In fact it's scary that it's both so obvious and so not.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Lost2010: Except, then wouldn't he know why he was crying?

Well, when we saw Ana-Lucia and her cop partner in one of her flashbacks, he makes it seem like she and Danny just broke up. If that Danny were THIS Danny, then they've been broken up for a long time. He probably would have no clue that she was on that flight. She was out of his life by that point, but maybe he still had feelings.

All VERY speculative, but that could be the reason his emotions were unknown even to him.

I still like the Claire theory, partly because I thought of it on my own. The Ana-Lucia thing was from Lostpedia.

And don't give me credit for the CS Lewis catch. That was all Doc.

Capcom said...

Interesting Ock! Don't forget tho, as a physicist, Dan might be more in tuned than the average Joe/Jane as to whether or not the island light has an unusual shift in the color spectrum to it.

Bearbones: I think that between decompostion in the hot sun, and the myriads of carnivorous bugs that feed off of dead animals, the bear could go to bones pretty quickly. Museums even use flesh eating bugs to clean their animal "samples" in a shorter time as well. Info like that might be found on the Body Farm website, that's here in Knoxville.

I like the idea that Charlotte might have DI parents!

maven said...

I like the Claire theory, too. Even though they are in Massachusetts...maybe they were going to fly out to LA to get the baby, or Claire would have continued on her way to the east coast. I don't see him as someone Ana Lucia would hook up with. Why would he be so upset? Although his wife seems oblivious to the 815 story. That's the only hole I see in this theory.

Memphish: I, too, really like vozzek's opening theory that the Losties are coming full circle.

Ange said...

You know, I read all 500 some odd posts and I honestly can not remember if this was brought up (searching didn't help) but what if when we saw Charlotte finding the bear skeleton, it was after she got off the island (if she did)? Are we assuming too quickly that her flash was a flash back and not a flash forward? Is there a date on that Tunisian Newspaper, because I can not make one out.

maven said...

Ange: Don't you know by now that very rarely do we get a solid date! LOL But the fact of the Tunisian paper having a cover story about 815 leads me to believe that her FB is about the same time as the other Team members...they're all finding out about the freckage at the same time. I do believe it is a FB, and she might have been recruited as a Team Member because she's just so ga-ga over Dharma!

Although I still don't get why Abbaddon and Naomi would hire some Navy Seals or other military types instead of a drunk, kooky physicist, an anthropoligist, and a psychic. I don't get that at all.

Capcom said...

Maven, if they hired a SEAL team to do the job, the mission would have been completed last night, and the show would be over already. :o)

But seriously folks, I think that the usefulness of their special talents will be disclosed in the future.

Ange said...

maven said...Although I still don't get why Abbaddon and Naomi would hire some Navy Seals or other military types instead of a drunk, kooky physicist, an anthropoligist, and a psychic. I don't get that at all.

Because they are all the kids of Dharma people?

2costa said...

i dont know about them all being "dharma babies" but that might make a good saturday morning cartoon. and navy seal arent usually physicists anthropologists and mediums, so i bet they need these specific tools to complete their extraction or whatever their true mission is...

Capcom said...

BTW, I'm wondering if now that the Losties all know that the F-4s have come for Ben, if they will use Ben for some heavy bargaining booty. Like...we'll give you Ben, only if you get us out of here, even though that's not your mission.

We'll see I guess.

2costa said...

and a bumbling compotent pilot nobody would ever miss

Twinkle said...

ange said:

Because they are all the kids of Dharma people?

Maybe. That'd be really cool. They also just make sense.

Who do we want to know more about? Jacob and the spooky stuff on the island. Answer: Ghostbuster Miles

Who can figure out the temple/four toed statue? Answer: Anthrodharmatist Charlotte (I think the Dharma thing is to get her to the island but her true purpose will be to illuminate more of the island's past and its "natives."

Who can explain how the island is hiding and the mysterious physical properties of the island? Answer: Quirky physics professor Dan

And who can connect what happened in the real world with 815 and the island, plus be useful for integrating Losties back into society? Answer: Lush Lapidus

As for why Abbadon and his crew picked them, I think that they were selected by someone trying to make sense of and exploit the island. Ben is only their first objective. But I don't care about their in-story purpose. To me our freighter four spell out ANSWERS. There's one for each of the major areas we fans have questions about. YAY!!!

2costa said...

with lost rules, that usually the opposite of our first thought is true, i think they might be there to save ben... or they worked with him and he double crossed them

Twinkle said...

There are two Lost previews for the next ep on ABC. I won't spoil them but there's a really great line in one that references Sawyer and his nickname giving. Soo funny!

Capcom said...

I'm thinking that way too Twinkle.

Capcom said...

...er, about the character rundown, in your previous post.

Twinkle said...

Thanks, capcom. I can't adequately communicate how excited I am by these four. It's like I didn't realize how stale the air in the Jack/Locke/Sawyer wars was getting until they brought a fresh breeze.

Capcom said...

Totally! :-D

maven said...

Agreed that this new Team opens up all kinds of possibilities and adds a breath of fresh air.

BTW: I was just kinda kidding about the Navy seals or military types to take on this "covert operation". I know that the usefulness of our Team will come into clearer focus eventually. Frank is there because he might be the only pilot that can actually land a craft on the island. Charlotte is there because of her Dharma interest and her anthropological skills could help with understanding the native population. Miles can talk to dead people (Jacob, Christian, etc.). And Dan has an understanding of the unique properties of the island.

But it was pretty funny how they all seemed to be "golly-gee, let's play the role of an operative". They all seemed out of place acting like the tough guys.

Twinkle said...

I should also clarify that I've known about the four since before the Find 815. If you read spoilers, it was obvious that the Season Four code words were the names of the new characters having to do with the freighter. At that time, I wasn't excited by them at all. I applaud the writers and actors for making the "tone" of these four both ominous and yet also innocent in that they aren't hardened by life on the island and still have a "regular world" feel about them.

Twinkle said...

I know, Maven! It was great! Not what I was expecting at all!

And who in the story knows enough about the island to see the value of putting a ghostbuster on the team - and *how* do they know that much about the island?

memphish said...

Ange I agree with Maven that this is a pre-Naomi on the Island flashback because of the newspaper. Finding 815 would only be front page news for a day or two. I guess this is the first flashback that has occurred after the day of the crash but before the day we're on the Island. I love how rules can be broken now.

I love the Dharma babies theory too. charlotte was born in '79. I'd say Miles is more or less the same age. Frank and Dan seem older though.

Twinkle said...

They - the people behind Abbadon - also knew that the 815ers were there, that Desmond was on the island, the funky physics of the island, and about Dharma. How did they get all that information? Maybe they watched Lost?

memphish said...

It's my belief that Abaddon is either like Mrs. Hawking and that's how he knows everything or he's employed by Mrs. Hawking or his employers have employed Mrs. Hawking.

Twinkle said...

Here's a wacky theory of the week for the podcast:

Who is the nefarious source behind Abbadon and the freighter four? Who is willing to sell their souls answers? We are. The fans are the only ones off the island who know about all these perplexing and vexing mysteries. We have the biggest investment in getting answers, of whom Ben would be a chief target, and the most to gain. We hired Hiro from Heroes to take the Haitian's cousin back in time to drop a team of people on the island with the mission of giving us what we want to know, whatever it takes.

Twinkle said...

That's got to be at least as plausible as purgatory! ;-)

ib4uc said...

OMG... I'm finally caught up. It sucks big time that my work has blocked blogger so I have to catch up at home. What an awesome episode!

Sorry if this was mentioned earlier (I didn't see it) but I was looking at abc.com and noticed that they have a Sawyer Nickname Generator. Mine is 'milquetoast' -- whatever that means.

Jo_Banker said...

Hi All...new to this and love all that you have been saying. I've been reading all comments since last season. Just have to ask this, how many times will Ben get whacked in the face? That guy is like a Timex watch, no?

memphish said...

Hi Jo Banker! Glad you posted. You're right about Ben's face. It's a mess.

J. Wood is finally up.

memphish said...

Hey Jess, Ange, Carol, you science types -- what do we know about "Maxwell's Demon, and the whole discussion of entropy and the arrow of time?"

Jo_Banker said...

Hey Memphish, thanks! I was just about to watch this episode again...wondering where is Desmond?

maven said...

Jo-Banker: Glad you came out of lurking! Welcome! I agree with you that Ben takes a lot more than is humanly possible. The make-up guys must love it when they get the script and there's a lot of Ben in it! LOL

Well, we haven't seen much of a lot of the cast yet, too. Jin and Sun haven't had much to do yet. I do have to hand it to the producers for introducing these 4 new characters in fast, concise FBs. Have we ever had the locations indicated before?

Sayid'sgirl said...

I watched the show again and I came away with this. I think the F4and Abbadon knew the Losties were on the island. But for some reason they didn't believe they would survive the island. That even if they survived the crash, that someone or something would have killed them.

Carol Dunstan said...

finishing off the other thread...

ok, so you guys did know about CS Lewis. I just thought if it was known there'd be mentioned in this thread. So, can we read anything into that? Twinkle, thanks for that stuff about 'The Great Divorce'... it's even got purgatory! ;-) I myself, thinking of the more far-fetched theories about the island, thought of 'The Magician's Nephew' and the pools in the wood that transport you to other worlds

Ange said...

Memphish: I'm not sure what I make of the arrow of time theory. Basically time = entropy in that time is chaos and not symmetrical thus can not be easily reversed.

Maxwell's Demon is basically a theory that thermodynamically things can be separated into hot and cold on the molecular level by a demon (nano-device maybe?).

I do however like that idea that somehow what is happening on the island is causing the arrow of time to be cyclic rather than strait and in one direction. We need to allow for suspension of disbelief there in that we need to accept that time can circle around for certain people, or even for everyone if you pay attention to it. It could explain how psychics can "see" the future or the past of someone they do not know.

I'm not sure what would be involved to make such a thing happen. I suppose that's where Maxwell's Demon theoretically comes in as it allows for a "door" to order where there should be entropy. So I guess it could allow for the chaos of time to come into some sort of order.

So the island acts as a conduit for that order, separating then reordering time through what; electromagnetic properties of the island coupled with the Valenzetti equation?

I dunno, that's what I get from it all. In theory it's interesting. This guy has had quite the think about it...like Wiki, it's fun but I don't know how valid any of the science or spiritualism behind it is.

Can of worms now covered with a lid :D.

maven said...

So many literary, cinematic, and scientific references were in this episode. Sort of overwhelming...and very educational! LOL

Carol Dunstan said...

maven I was just thinking that myself.

Kyle, thanks for mentioning that the Others didn't know much about the Swan as that is something that has been bugging me for quite some time. I still haven't listened to it but did read up on Lostpedia. I'd still like to know when they started going to the Pearl to observe the Swan. From that I have a timeline issue: if Kelvin has been in the Swan since the Purge (1987) how was he able to meet Sayid in Iraq in 1991?

Two wacky theories have come to mind

~ Abaddon is Ben's man on the inside.

~ the opening scene of this episode does not gel with Find815... it's like those ROV operators had no idea that 815 may be there, which would not be the case if they were the professionals brought in to do a proper survery of the wreckage after Sam had initially found it. So maybe is Sams version of events is an alternate reality

though I do like the idea that Ben's man on the inside is a woman. And I think we're just supposed to suspend disbelief on discrepancies between Find815 and the show

right, now I'm off to read Doc, J Wood and all those other things people linked to

LostIt said...

OMG, how do you folks find the time to post all this stuff. It took me all night to catch up!

When Ben was rattling off Charlotte's life history, did he mention where she was born or who her parents were? My husband deleted the episode off the tivo so I can't re-watch it.

Also, are there any screen shots of the newspaper Charlotte was looking at? There MUST be a date in there somewhere! The enhanced TTLG said that according to the count on the tape that Danielle had recorded, the Losties had been on the island for 91 days. This was when they pulled the tape at the tower.

chucklez3 said...

just a bit of a sidenote: if ben continues to get beaten in the face, it will collapse from massive structural damage!!

yuck.


;)

and twinkles........easy now. my purgatory stands ALONE. hahahaha

I joked on the phone with amused about the fact that this episode touched on purgatory-type issues and funny how there's a DAN now (i'm dan, btw). and.....she mentioned that miles has a few of my personality traits. good ol' sarcasm. gotta love it. hahaha.

chucklez3 said...

Ben's man on the boat: Tommy Mittelwerk!!!! hahahaha.

hmmm...better yet.......JOOP!!!!

Amused2bHere said...

Here's a question raised by Doc Jensen: if Frank Lapidus landed the chopper safely then why was he disoriented and injured when Jack &co found him? Had he run into smokey?

On another idea: I think the reason Dan Faraday was upset when he saw the freckage was because he has repressed memories (either hypnotized, psychically brain wiped, whatever...). That's why he didn't know why he was upset.

memphish said...

Morning LoCos!

For those of you wondering about Ben and Roger Linus, they were headed to the Pearl. Here's the line from TMBTC

Roger: Well I'll tell you what. All we gotta do this morning is run this stuff out to the Pearl station.

Also whether or not they made deliveries to the Swan, they would have to know it existed because half the food has the Swan logo. You can see it here from the beer in the van that fateful day.

memphish said...

Ange! Thanks for the science run-down. I knew I could count on you guys.

I had a thought last night about Faraday's comments on the light not acting right. It reminds me of the hidden valley in Atlas Shrugged. (Ayn Rand's book The Fountainhead was read by Sawyer last season.) The valley was hidden from view by a screen of rays projecting a refracted image, like a mirage, intended to camouflage the valley's existence. The ray screen had killed her plane's engine.

memphish said...

If anyone's interested in my latest LOST question, head over to my blog. I'm wondering why the Island isn't taking a more active role in hindering the new visitors.

Sayid'sgirl said...

lostit
Here's what Ben said about Charlotte.
Here name is Charlotte Lewis, Charlotte Staples Lewis. Born July 2nd 1979 Essex England. Parents David and Janette. Eldest of 3 all girls. She was raised in Bromsgrove, did her under graduate studies at Kent. Took her Phd in Cultural Anthropology at Oxford.

Capcom said...

Happy weekend LoCos! Dang, I have got to read Atlas Shrugged in the very near future! You've convinced me, Memphish. :-)

FWIW, here's my guess (I'm not standing firm on it by any means) on knowledge of the Swan station by the Former-DIs/Others/Purgers, after all the conversation about it on Friday:

1) Obviously the original DIs knew about it, because they built it. But, maybe not too many DIs knew where it was, or what was done there (especially if it was connected in mission to the Orchid mission). There would be lots of reasons to keep its location and activities generally covert, such as secrecy of the experiments, safety of DIs not working there, need-to-know-only type activities. The films have shown us how the DIs keep secrets from each other even about their own missions. So only a few security-cleared DIs got to go there.

2) After the Purge, Ben and some Purgers knew about it, and possibly its actual or general location, but those higher up like Ben retained the secrecy of it due to its inherent dangerous nature, etc. It *seems* like Zeke was at least refering to it in his "line in the sand" talk with Jack.

3) A lot depends on whether or not Kelvin was original DI, former DI, or hired by the Purgers, etc. But perhaps it was impossible for even Ben to get into the Swan after the Purge due to the mechanics of whatever the supposed quarantine protocal was (especially if Kel and Rad were DI, they would not let the Purgers in). If they went thru the motions (whether or not there actually was a virus), Kel and Rad may have kept it shut up tight (because they were trained to, or beacuse of the Purge) so that even if Ben knew about it, he could not get into the station on their watch. Enter Des, exit K&R, and voila, a crack in the fortress for Ben to check it out maybe.

4) Ben could monitor the comings and goings at the Swan before he got in to some extent via the closed circuit monitors at the Pearl, and maybe the Hydra and Flame. I don't know whether or not he wanted to get in via being caught, or if he did or didn't want the button pushed. But being the leader, if there was now an opening for him to get in, it would behoove him to check the Swan out at least to maintain his superior knowledge of all island matters, and to control it if possible.

Well, does that make any sense or am I still way off by the info that we have so far? Sorry for the long post. Thaks for checking it out. :-)

maven said...

DocArtz has posted the latest news about the strike and how it relates to LOST. The strike is NOT over yet. At 2:30AM, the WGA finally got the legal wording deal out to their members and it will be discussed today at meetings on both coasts. Tomorrow the Boards decide whether or not to okay the deal and writers could go back to work on Monday if they do. It would still have to be officially ratified by a vote. But the Negotiating Team is recommending approval. Seems like good news, but on some writers' blogs I've been monitoring, not everyone is happy.

2costa said...

i have a feeling that bens man on the boat is minorski or whatever his name was the one that was too busy for miles call...

2costa said...

seemed strange that with such a sensative mission that the friegter guy was too busy for mile's call

maven said...

2Costa: It's been speculated that Ben's "man on the boat" could have been holding a gun to Minkowski's or Regina's head or gotten control of things somehow. That would explain Regina's tone of voice and seemingly wanted to get off the phone.

Lost 2010 said...

I'm not sure that Naomi's team is expected by their backers to make it out of there now. What I don't understand is why he'd send in only one military type with the four specialty people. You just don't send in 3 Daniel Jacksons with Jack O'Neill. Shouldn't Naomi have had at the very least a partner?

Unless there is something about this island that only lets certain people into the dome so to speak. Which brings you back to the DID's (Dharma Initiative Descendants)? Did they need these people not just to find Ben, but to find the island itself? The physicist maybe had done his part (finding the electromagnetic deflection of light thing) that let them locate the island. Therefore they shoved him out first - he's the least likely to be needed. He's done his thing.

Although, really I think he's there to explain why the sky turned purple to the audience. Along with any other Casimir related effects that tend to be outside my scope of understanding.

Lost 2010 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lost 2010 said...

As for C.S. Lewis, wasn't he also the one who was a reknowned atheist before his conversion to Christianity. Then he became a tremendous voice for his faith.

Following that line of thought, will Charlotte be another character who moves from a position of science to a position of faith? Is it significant that she landed near Locke who is our man of faith?

maven said...

Lostit: First off, sorry for your DVR loss!

Interesting that you bring up faith vs. science. There seems to be two scientists on the team and two people of faith (a psychic would believe in faith that his ability is real...not sure about Frank yet...doesn't seem to be really into black and white facts, though). As with Jack and Locke, will their beliefs be tested on the island? We'll have to wait and see.

Lost 2010 said...

maven - I can see Frank turning out to be a faith guy. The thing with the wedding ring spoke of faith to me.

2costa said...

frank seems least loyal to abbadon

Lost 2010 said...

2costa - I agree. I believe he had his own reasons for coming there.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Capcom: The only thing I'd add about the Swan issue is that Tom/Zeke/Friendly was referring to the Swan with his "line in the sand" speech ("opening doors you shouldn't be opening" or whatever).

The reason we know that he was referring to the Swan with that comment is because, thanks to Nikki and (specifically) Paolo, we heard Ben say that Tom had been in the Pearl looking in on the Swan a few days ago.

The scene witnessed by Paolo was before Michael received the messages on the computer, and thus before Jack, Sawyer and Locke encountered Tom while looking for Michael.

So yeah, he knew about it then, and a few days prior to then. But did he know about it before that, is the real question.

takes a village said...

Lostit,
ABC.com has Lost episodes in streaming HD if you like.

scoutpost said...

lostit- my hubby would be in a serious doghouse if he had deleted the episode so quickly! ;)

memphish- that is really interesting from Atlas Shrugged. Sounds very much like what is going on with the island. We'll know for sure if sometime this season Sawyer stumbles upon that book!

regarding the WGA strike- I have read some of the same things maven- it all sounds good until you read United Hollywood and some other blogs. I hope it will end- for LOST's sake (well really for my sake- lol)

regarding the Swan- it is hard to figure out, because Ben was obviously headed in the right direction for the Swan when he was caught by Danielle- I mean, I think the island is big enough that unless Ben had some idea of where it was, that he could have easily avoided any Danielle traps. I don't know...

Still makes me wonder who the real Henry Gale was. Was he trying to come to the island intentionally, or was he just someone who got caught up in the electromagnetic pull and ended up there?

maven said...
It's been speculated that Ben's "man on the boat" could have been holding a gun to Minkowski's or Regina's head or gotten control of things somehow. That would explain Regina's tone of voice and seemingly wanted to get off the phone.
Maybe Michael and Walt stumbled upon the freighter and have taken it over....ok maybe that's a stretch. ;)

Lost 2010 said...

If the Walt from Room 23 is on the freighter, it might not be as much of a stretch as you think. . .

LostIt said...

Thanks, for the transcript, Sayid's girl. I thought there might be a clue in there somehwere but nothing's juming out at me.

Thanks all for the sympathy about LOST being deleted from my Tivo. I had seen the episode twice already so my hubby thought I was done with it. We do have conflicting ideas on what to do with a show that you've already seen. Sometimes he'll stop recording a show that we're watching with the idea that we don't need to record it if we're watching it. (Usually I don't mind, but LOST is special.) And he almost never takes advantage of pausing it to go the kitchen or bathroom or whatever. But he does most of the housework, so I'm not going to complain!

Sigma6 said...

Here's DocArzt's update on the strike.

Sayid'sgirl said...

lostit
You're welcome. Glad help. If I didn't have my episodes to watch at least a half dozen times I'd go crazy.
And like takes a village said you can watch the on line at ABC.

memphish said...

Lostit, Your problem is the reason I haven't taught my husband to work the DVR, and the kid knows he's dead meat if he ever erases anything unauthorized. I keep my copies of the episodes around until I buy my DVDs and this year I even watched each episode on the DVD before I deleted them off my hard drive in case I got a bad DVD. Obsessive if not excessive I know, but hey, what you gonna do?

DarkUFO and others have been quoting a Matthew Fox interview from his Vantage Point tour as saying he thinks there may only be 4-6 more episodes this season. What we really need is Damon and Carlton to come out of radio silence. I hope, hope, hope they can get all 16 in this season even if that means a season that runs into June. Heck, its not like we'll be watching anything else then.

LostIt said...

I posted this on OC, but I think it belongs here.

Can those satellite phones dial any phone number? Why do you suppose Desmond hasn't tried to get a hold of it to call Penny? Doesn't anyone want to contact a loved one back home? Does anyone besides Desmond even HAVE a loved one back home?

Capcom said...

Thanks for the correction and details Kyle, I was reticent to guess anything concretely, but with what you pointed out it does seem sure that Zeke was b*tching about them romping around the Swan.

Scoutpost, I thing it's curious how Ben got caught by Danielle too, accept for maybe that it was a new trap that she just put up and he didn't know about it. I fear at this point that we will never see any resolution to unknown points like that, or about the real Henry. :-(

memphish said...

I think that's a good question Lostit. Hurley joke called his mom when the phone was broken, but why haven't they tried to call anyone? Do you need a code? I don't know.

Capcom said...

Lostit, remember Hurley tried to call his mom before they unjammed all the jammers. :o)

But yeah, good question, can they call any number in the world on one of those things??? Or can they only call another one of those phones?

Capcom said...

FWIW, our friend Wiki says:

"A satellite telephone, satellite phone, or satphone is a mobile phone that communicates directly with orbiting communications satellites. Depending on the architecture of a particular system, coverage may include the entire Earth, or only specific regions. Satellite phones are usually issued with numbers in a special country calling code. Calls from satellite phones to landlines are usually around $.80 to $1.50 per minute unless special offers are used."

Sooo, I guess that Dez could call Penny, whether she's on a landline or not??? We'll see what TPTB let them do.

scoutpost said...

I haven't watched it again (I know you can't believe it), so I'll have to rely on those who have-
didn't Sayid try to dial someone in the Confirmed Dead episode? It was while he and Miles were romping through the jungle, don't remember any more. Don't think Sayid got through, but I don't remember why. But anyway, I think Sayid tried. I'll have to go rewatch.

Sayid'sgirl said...

scoutpost
Yes Sayid did try to call someone else.
Sayid has the phone and is dialing numbers. Miles says I wouldn't mess around with that if I were you. Sayid: It can't hurt to try and call someone else. Miles: Oh, it can hurt. Then it beeps with Charlotte's signal which turns out to be Vincent.

Sayid'sgirl said...

Well I don't know for sure he was dialing "numbers" but he was pushing buttons.

Capcom said...

Heheh, yeah, what did Miles mean by, "Oh, it can hurt!"? I thought that was a funny retort. He's such a pill, that guy! :o)

Sayid'sgirl said...

I kinda thought he meant there was more danger out there than they knew about. And you don't want to accidently find it.

Lost 2010 said...

I don't think my poor brain can handle two freighters - I hope that's not what he meant.

maven said...

Miles' "Oh, it can hurt." line is very intriguing. Being a psychic, maybe he can also see the future. Perhaps he is telling Sayid that if you try to reach someone else in the outside world, there will be consequences to that action...maybe harm will come to them. Or maybe he means it literally...Sayid would be physically hurt by one of them if he tries to reach anyone else. Maybe they are only meant to be in contact with the freighter.

If it was me, I'd be desperately trying to reach someone else (if I didn't trust the people on the freighter). Is there a 911 for satellite phones? LOL

Sayid'sgirl said...

lost 2010:
I don't think my poor brain can handle two freighters - I hope that's not what he meant.

lol No that's not what I meant. I don't think my brain could handle that either.
I'm thinking more along the lines that some people on the freighter are more dangerous than they are. Or maybe Abaddon or someone else has access to that phone.

maven:
If it was me, I'd be desperately trying to reach someone else (if I didn't trust the people on the freighter). Is there a 911 for satellite phones? LOL

I don't know but I'd be trying too.

takes a village said...

Lostit,
PS.
Thursday 8pm I believe there will be a special enhanced replay of this weeks show.

maven said...

I was just thinking that the Freighter Team might be really helpful to all of us obsessed fans:

Daniel could explain what the Swan hatch was all about and help us understand how the electromagnetic properties of the island effects how it remains hidden from the world. He might give us insight into the many scientific explanations for the island's strangeness.

Charlotte, the anthropologist, could explain the native history of the island...maybe even that 4-toed statue and the Temple. And she seems really into the Dharma experiments, so she might be able to makes sense of their ultimate goals.

Miles might be able to make contact with the ghosts we've seen, especially connect with Jacob, Christian, Ben's mother Emily, Walt, etc. Maybe he will make contact with who ever is making the whispers.

Frank might give us some insight into what Oceanic has to do with everything...Were the survivors on the flight for a reason?...How to get on and off the island...How to land a craft on the island.

Maybe this particular team was chosen so that we'll finally get some answers to the mysteries of the island.

Amused2bHere said...

Lostit said: "Does anyone besides Desmond even HAVE a loved one back home?" Good question!

Hmm, Jack has mom.
Juliette has sis and nephew.
Hurley has mom (and dad, but we can debate as to his "loved" status!)
Sayid has Nadia to look for.
Desmond has Penny.
Locke? No
Kate? No
Sawyer? No (no one he wants to be in touch with)
Sun, Jin? No
Rose, Bernard? No
Claire? No, unless we count Auntie
Also "No" for Danielle, Alex, Karl, Ben

Anyone I miss?

I can't understand why Kate wants off the Island. She's still a fugitive as far as she knows. Is she finally ready to face prosecution? I would have thought she'd be happy to start fresh on the Island.

Ellen said...

Maven-I like what you said! I agree, all the freighters were chosen for a good reason...not only in the show itself, but also for us to help explain some of the mysteries. (I know we all hope so anyway!)
xxoo

memphish said...

A2BH, I think Kate must be pregnant as her reason for leaving. I agree she has no other reason to leave given her fugitive status and the fact that Frank and others must know of that fugitive status.

Nice breakdown Maven.

Zort70 said...

ROV, Freckage, Christiane 1, 815

By this point, after shouting at the television with all sorts of phrases such as the ones above my wife thought I was having a seisure !

I'm going to read the comments, I may be some time.

Fun Box Boards said...

Morning Everyone!!

I found some clips that had me laughing ALL morning.

Orientation

Locke always leaves happy

Enjoy and have a great day!
Mazzy

Zort70 said...

I have to agre with the comments from lost2010 that it was quite fun to see that the losties have learnt from their time on the island and are now using the others tricks on the newcomers.

Yes it's a shame the ARG and the ROV pictures wern't quite in sync, but the idea was there which is good enough for me.

When is the Ben Linus Punch Bag toy coming out ? This is sure to be a big seller at Christmas !

I love some of the things we have been getting in the show, that the fans that have been there since the beginning, will appreciate, like Locke enjoying the rain.

Zort70 said...

I've nearly used up a whole battery charge on this laptop reading the comments.

scoutpost said...

Zort- better go recharge!

When is the Ben Linus Punch Bag toy coming out ? This is sure to be a big seller at Christmas ! LOL- actually my dog needs a new chew toy ;)

memphish- I agree that a potential pregnancy may be why Kate leaves. Although you have to remember that Kate always runs. She can't stand to stay in one place- remember how bad she wanted on the raft? I don't know how she would get back to civilization without being caught though. She would have to have a fake ID and be able to slip though all the media unnoticed. Maybe the one who will be worried about her in the TTLG FF is her child.

maven- you make a good point about the usefulness of the F4, but I don't think TPTB will give us the answers that easy! Although I wish they would throw us a nice juicy bone.

jess4ua said...

Scoutpost- Kate's child wondering where she is in the FF has crossed my mind several times. I haven't mentioned it because I keep getting the feel that the FF is not too far from when they get off the island, meaning the child wouldn't be old enough to know. After these last episodes though I am wondering. I guess it could take a few years for Jack to feel guilty enough to start losing his mind.

Twinkle said...

Maven, you sounded just like me at the top of the post! The usefulness of the F4 to the fans led me to the wacky theory that we fans must be behind Matthew Abbadon hiring them. ;-)

OT- I was reading SciFi Wire and came across Shadow Unit. Have you all heard of this project? Evidently a group of scifi authors have gotten together to produce fan fiction for a TV show concept that actually isn't a TV show. Season 1 debuts Feb 18th online, but there's groundwork material already on the web at shadowunit.org. The whole thing is intriguing and I thought it might be up some of ya'lls alleys too. It sounds like they've put a lot of work into mapping out the universe, background, and characters. I love it when writers do that!

maven said...

Morning all:

Zort70: LOL re Ben Linus Punch Bag Doll. How many real people can take all that abuse? Hahaha And recharge those batteries!

Thanks to everyone for commenting on my thoughts re the Team maybe helping out us fans. TPTB might be listening at last!

I agree that Kate is off the island because of the possibility of being pregnant and the "him" she has to get back to could be her baby. Maybe having a child has finally made Kate content. So far, she's the only one we've seen that seems happy to live with the lie. She has a history of living with lies, so maybe this is easier for her than Jack and Hurley.

Jess: I, too, think the FF are not that forward. I think they are almost in sync with our time line in 2008. So the baby wouldn't be that old yet. Living with the lie (whatever that is) wouldn't take too long for Jack and Hurley to have their second thoughts and begin a downward spiral.

maven said...

Twinkle said: "
It seems to me that each person in the team is just the expert that is needed to provide the fans with answers."


Sorry, didn't see that line up in the comments. Guess we think alike!

Sayid'sgirl said...

I've been trying to post for awile but kept getting a page can not be displayed. I'm going to try again. Let' see if I can remember what I wrote. LOL

What I would like to know is how much time has past between the time Jack tells Hurley he wants to grow a beard (which would take a month two at most) and the time he's desparate to get back to the island.

It doesn't seem like it's been to long after they got back when Jack is talking to Hurley, since he is still signing an occasional autograph.

But in the season 3 finale the guy in the pharmancy recognized Jack. And aren't we assuming it's 2007 then because of the cell phone Jack was using?

I guess what I'm wondering is, was the conversation Jack and Hurley had closer to 2007 than we think?
Is the assumption that they get rescued in 2004 correct? Or did it take 3 years for Jack to spiral down.

Twinkle said...

Great questions, Sayid's girl!

Maven, I'm just so excited that someone agrees with me and is optimistic about getting some answers!

As for Kate plus baby, the baby/kid would also be why she's so adamant about not going back.

Seeing Jack with Hurley and then future crazy Jack, I think it's safe to say something traumatic is going to happen to him between times which will start his spiral. He had all that research all over so he'd been thinking about getting back before he said anything to Kate. It might not have been the first time he said something to her either. Something must have made her not want to take his calls. "Don't hang up!"

Zort70 said...

Perhaps it is something that happens to Hurley that starts Jack's downward spiral ?

Does he end up being the one responsible, or at least feels he is responsible, for getting them out of the situation that they are in, or have been through ?

Fenris said...

Hi all. I'm still lagging behind but almost there. I've got a new bullets up talking about what we learned from the ARG and about the missing pieces. Feel free to check it out.

Hopefully I'll have something on the episodes before episode 3 this week and then normal service will be resumed and hopefully I'll be posting as much here again.

I think the length of the break is making it harder to get back in the flow. Lol.

Lostbullets

Capcom said...

Hey Twinkle, thanks for the heads-up and link to the Shadow Unit project. I like the blurb there about Man From U.N.C.L.E. They recently played some episodes all day on TCM and it was awesome! (Although sometimes awesomely corny, but awesome nonetheless :-)

Off to read Lost Bullets now!

Have a good week everyone!

maven said...

Thanks for the heads up for the Lost Bullets post, Fenris. I put a comment on over there (first!).

maven said...

FYI: Looks like show-runners will be back at work tomorrow while the WGA votes to lift the strike (which will take 48 hours). This was probably part of the deal with the AMPTP to have work start Monday. Haven't seen any comments by the LOST show-runners anywhere...yet.

scoutpost said...

Sayid's Girl and Jess-
That's true about the FF- I think the TTLG FF was assumed to be in 2007 according to the cell phone and the obit. So if Kate had a baby, he would only be about 2 1/2 and if it were Aaron he would only be about 3. It would be hard to imagine them really worrying about where Kate went that night.

You know thinking about the O6 and what it would take to get Jack on the helicopter and leave others behind, you know it's just as hard to imagine Jack agreeing to lie and keep quiet about leaving others behind. You have to wonder what they do to the O6/Jack (or how they threaten him) to get him to stay mum. The FF's are going to be so interesting because you know some really terrible things have to happen to make the O6 so disturbed.

Capcom said...

Good thoughts Scoutpost.

I wonder though, if the baby were in its "terrible twos", he/she just might have a tantrum if Mommy is not there, and if the babysitter is not exactly the Supernanny. :o) At any rate, its mostly just a line that TPTB put in there to drive us crazy until we find out more.

Sayid'sgirl said...

With the strike almost over I wonder if Damon and Carlton will start doing podcasts again? I hope so. I miss those. And I hope they go back and recap the ones they missed.

Amused2bHere said...

Capcom said: At any rate, its mostly just a line that TPTB put in there to drive us crazy until we find out more.

Soooo true! Like we need more lines like that?

Lost 2010 said...

See this is where I have my own little twinning experience - My skater leanings tend to wane a bit and I feel this jater vibe coming on. Maybe it was the wink.

I think Jack would do quite a bit to protect Kate, actually. I can see him agreeing to all those things to keep Kate from going to the chair maybe. It's not hard to figure out that she's something of an achilles heel for both Jack and Sawyer. If Ben picked up on it, I doubt it takes Abbadon too long.

Lost 2010 said...

Every day around the world women look at a happily drooling child sitting in a highchair and croon, "Now don't you worry. Mommy has to go to work but she'll be back soon."

And later tell their bosses, "Oh, no. I can't work late. Little Jimmy will be wondering where I am."

Meanwhile, Little Jimmy,age 2, sees Little Suzy's mommy pick her up from daycare and begins to whine because his mommy ALWAYS comes before Little Suzy's mommy.

Which is a long drawn out way of saying that I don't think it's an odd line if it refers to a 2 year old.

Lost 2010 said...

Actually, more than I wonder who is waiting at home for her, I can't figure out why she isn't in jail. After watching 3 seasons of her questionable thought processes on the island, I can't even figure out how she evaded capture for the 4 years prior to the crash.

Twinkle said...

Totally, Lost 2010. I homeschool my kids which means we're together all day and still they act sometimes like I'm cutting off their arm if I leave them for a while. Can't get enough mommy. Two year olds are especially prone to that. The one caveat is that if they are with grandma they could care less where I am. :-) Speaking of kids, we need to start our day.

So how would the kid protect Kate from the consequences of her past?

Lost 2010 said...

twinkle - I have a 2 year old nephew and he acts like my sister is cutting his arm off if she goes into the next room. :)

Unless Sawyer makes it home too, I think Kate being pregnant would muck up the Abbadon cover story. They're going to have to say the O6 were somewhere all this time. And if the cover story involves the O6 saying everyone but them died in the crash, a simple DNA test will be all it would take to expose the lie. Right? Unless James Ford has an identical twin out there somewhere.

I'm leaning toward some sort of paid off jury situation where the chain of custodies on the evidence got mucked up and the star witnesses were dead. Either that or she's still on the run - only now she's running from both the law and Abbadon.

Capcom said...

Hi all, happy Monday.

Too true Lost2010, if Wid/Paik/Hanso/Others can buy an airliner to dump into the ocean full of cadavers, they can certainly by off local DAs to load a jury skewed to their desired outcome! :-)

Which brings to mind, perhaps we should not be thinking of these people in charge of the minipulations as mere huge corporations. Maybe TPTB are thinking more in terms of those theories about the Illuminati or Bilderberg groups who are supposed to be the actual people in charge of the world, with their New World Order plan. Not that I believe that, I'm just mentioning it for theory's sake. It's easier to imagine the ominpotent global power that "They" are supposed to have in the show, if I'm thinking of it in those terms. Just a thought.

memphish said...

Morning LoCos. I just wanted to let y'all know I've got a new post up on my blog with various questions and things I noticed from rewatching the episode. Also, if you haven't check it out, check out the previous post about the Island and especially Andrew's comment. He makes some great points about maybe giving the Island too much credit.

ular97 said...

Just saw on Fox that our favorite programs may continue as early as Wednesday.

memphish said...

Damon talked to E!

Executive Producer Damon Lindelof Says: "Indeed, it would appear that we are in the endgame of the strike. Personally, I couldn't be more psyched to be part of this union. Like any negotiation, some parts suck and some parts surpassed my wildest expectations for what we could accomplish, but most of all I'm left with a feeling of pride.

"As for Lost (pending the actual lifting of the strike, which we vote for on Tuesday), a game plan should begin to manifest by the end of the week. All I can say is that Carlton and I and the rest of the writers have every intention of making sure you guys get more episodes this season beyond the eight already completed. How many and how they will be aired is a conversation we'll be having with our bosses, but as soon as we've got a plan, we'll tell the fans first."

What We're Hearing: Lost's actors are on standby, and the show is expected to produce more episodes this season. Fingers crossed! The bigger question is who'll keep the golden Thursday at 9 p.m. time slot once those Seattle Grace docs also return...How 'bout we put Sawyer and McDreamy in a cage and let 'em duke it out? ('Cause we know who'd win...)

Sayid'sgirl said...

Morning Guys
I was reading my tv guide this morning and wanted to share this with people who will have the same opinion that I do.
Rochelle D. Thomas has an article called, Is it just me in it she says this about Lost.
Are the Losties losing it?
No only has John Locke gotten a couple of people killed on ABC's Lost, he's also destroyed Sayid's radio and blown up the castways' submarine ticket home. The survivors of Oceanic Flight 815 know this. Yet when Mr. Walkabout said, "If you want to live, you need to come with me"-just as a possible rescue approached-almost half the people who've been full-on obsesssed with nothing but getting off that island didn't hesitate to fall in line behind him, including Hurley, Claire and Sawyer. What the bleep? While I understand not staying with Jack to wait for the crew from "Not Penny's Boat," following Senor Crazy is also not an option. Locke up and stabbed an unarmed woman in the back. That's not the mark of a man who should be trusted, let alone followed.

All I can say to Miss Thomas is she obviously doesn't get Lost.

scoutpost said...

Morning all! Is it Thursday yet?

Good news about the strike- hope it all goes through.

Lost2010- good point about Kate being pregnant messing up the cover story/lie.

I was over at DarkUFO reading a blog entry they posted from LongLiveLocke- by Erika Olson. It's a long entry that I haven't had time to finish yet, but she said there are references to the F4 being symbolic of the 4 Horsemen of the Apocolypse- I hadn't heard that one. Interesting though.

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