Ben begrudgingly begins to introduce Locke to the secrets of the island, beginning with the mysterious Jacob. What is compelling Ben to reveal his secrets to Locke? Who will Jacob be? How will Locke responde? What will we learn about the history of the Dharma initiative? With questions like these, we can't help but get some cool answers!
Wednesday, May 09, 2007
THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN - SEASON 3, EPISODE 20
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432 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 432 of 432OMFG> Hi i just watched the episode and my brain hurts.
i thought when i seen that bunny i thught of joop could that be the same rabbit just really old.
ok i be back in a minute once i collect myself and my thoughts
I agree that the black powder looked like ash from the volcano. Is it possible that Smokey is tied to the volcano somehow? Perhaps the incident coincided with a volcanic eruption?
I got the impression that Smokey was already there when Ben arrived. Horace mentions that the sonic fence keeps out the "wildlife."
By the way - how in the world did little Ben know the code for the fence?
Also, Horus was the Egyptian god of the sun and the living pharoh. Not sure if there's any connection there.
Maven i agree Ben is losing his control, but this episode left me wondering how did he gain control i mean Alpert took him under his wing and now he seems suboordinate.
I think hostiles would like to drink tea
maven... I agree with you (and others) that Ben is losing control, possibly to Locke. If Locke dies, Ben will probably tell everyone that Jacob killed him, so you better not cross me or you'll suffer the same fate. What if... that's what Ben tells everyone and suddenly Locke reappears. Whoa, I wouldn't want to be in Ben's shoes!
Ok i think that the Hostiles are the remnants of the crew of the Black Rock i dont know if this has been mentioned but did anyone notice Alperts clothes when he meets kiddy ben they looked very ummmmmm pirates of the caribean to me
So many questions and theories. Good work LoCos. I'm just going to dive in.
Melissa_Lossa, Ben had the code for the gate because according to Marvin Candle it was changed everyday and given out everyday. His dad's job involved stocking the other stations, so I assume he was one of the people who got it and Ben took it.
Black_rock, I heard someone on Jay and Jack suggest that the natives were dressed as if they had crewed The Black Rock. So maybe Alpert's even older than we think.
Ib4uc that would be awesome as much as Locke has been buggin me lately i really dont want him to die.
ib4uc: That would really make Ben more bug-eyed! LOL
The island better heal Locke! Some people have speculated that Locke was shot in the spot where his kidney was taken for Daddy, so there would be no vital organs hit.
Hi Memphish , yeah i definatly think so this episode gave me the impression of a sort of fountain of youth on the island
Kool so the bullet went right through no kidney i still think if Locke was smart he would have got Jack to put his Kidney back in
I hope it is indeed a "fountain" of youth, otherwise why did Ben and Alex age, but not Alpert. Drinking from the fountain could explain that.
The new arrivals were given shots. I wonder if they took them every 9 days like Desmond or just once?
Where did Ben and the hostiles get instant-killing nerve gas?
Maybe Alpert's eyeliner keeps him looking young!
melissa_lossa (and others) - I'm pretty sure the name is spelled Horace in this instance. While Horus is packed full of literary and mythological meaning, so is Horace. From Wikipedia:
Horace was a member of a literary circle that included Virgil and Lucius Varius Rufus; they introduced him to Maecenas, friend and confidant of Augustus. Maecenas became his patron and close friend, and presented Horace with an estate near Tibur in the Sabine Hills, contemporary Tivoli. He died in Rome a few months after the death of Maecenas, in 8 BC. Upon his death bed, having no heirs, Horace relinquished his farm to his friend and Emperor Augustus, to be used for Imperial needs. His farm is there today and is a spot of pilgrimage for the literary elite.
Note the confluence of Star Wars and Roman history. I'd say that Ben is using Horace's land for imperial purposes.
Yeah Dharma eyeliner.
memphish said...
Where did Ben and the hostiles get instant-killing nerve gas?
Well, the can had a Dharma label on it....
From Horace's Odes:
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
Translation: "It is sweet and seemly to die for one's country."
Incidentally, that phrase happens to be the motto of the Portuguese Army University.
did anyone wonder wat happened to any. And does anybody think that Kiddy Ben had had some sort of contact with Jacob and was being given instructions to exterminate Dharma and join the natives
its probably just my imagination, but jacob & richard remind me of alvar hanso & tom mittelwerk.
Ben said Alpert couldn't talk to Jacob though, right?
Dharma lable on the nerve gas huh? Why did Dharma need that? Makes you think of Hanso and his munitions past.
Here are my thoughts:
(1) I think that Ben never had any intention of taking Locke to go see Jacob. He was forced to when Locke said it in front of all of the Others. The Others were probably upset with Ben because he was taking a newbie to see the almighty Jacob whereas none of them had ever had that honor. That is why they ignored Ben when he told them to stop Locke from beating up Patchy.
(2)Maybe Ben did take someone else to see Jacob. And that person never returned either, which is why Alex gave Locke he gun to protect himself.
(3)I believe Alpert and the other hostiles do age, but at a much slower rate. But the effects of aging do affect some parts of the body. Perhaps the uterus? Maybe this can explain why women are not able to carry the babies to term? We do not know anything about the 9 women who died giving birth. If they were like Alpert and their aging is being affected by the island, maybe that aging process is not affecting the womb? This would explain a 23-year old woman (on the outside) having the womb of a 70-yeard old woman.
Hey I wondered once about whether the Hostiles were either the crew or the descendants of the crew of the Black Rock, too. The Black Rock and Magnus have to tie in somehow.
Another theory- What if the island is a sort of Shambayla place and these native Hostiles just don't age. Doc Jensen even told the myth of some sort of old beings who kidnap young children to teach them peaceful ways... anyway, maybe they are looking for a "messiah" figure and when Ben stumbled across the fence saying he had seen his mother, Alpert assumed Ben was it. Then Ben gets cancer and after 815 crashed and they found out about Walt and Locke, maybe they began to question Ben's qualifications and turned to find out about Walt and Locke. Ben then gets rid of Walt and turns his attention to Locke so that his power doesn't get taken from him.
If Jacob is the type of person who can heal cancer and who was supposed to help Ben walk again, etc. I don't think he will let John die.
Also, Ben was shcked that Locke "killed" his father. He did not think Locke could do it. So Alpert is definetely working against him, since he told Locke how to suceed without getting his hands dirty.
So the question is, what did Alpert orginally see in Ben that made him trust him, make him an ally, and make him the leader of the natives, that he no longer sees and wants to overthrow?
acewebguy said...)Maybe Ben did take someone else to see Jacob. And that person never returned either, which is why Alex gave Locke he gun to protect himself.
Yes they didn't return because Ben probably killed them too to keep the fear of Jacob in them.
bigdog said...its probably just my imagination, but jacob & richard remind me of alvar hanso & tom mittelwerk.
No it's not just your imagination- they definitely seem like a parallel to Hanso and TWM.
I'm almost caught up... but in the mean time...
NEW POST!!!
rousseau would have been on the island after Ben got there. so did he take alex. if so rousseau is telling the truth.
Jacob has to have been seen by someone other than ben. if not locke is correct that his people are stupid. juliet looked geniuenly in awe when ben said jacob took care of her sister.
acewebguy: He was forced to when Locke said it in front of all of the Others.
Yep. I knew it as soon as I heard Locke say it. It's a familiar concept in my line of work. In the prison world, we call that "putting you out on Front Street." It is usually discouraged as felons have a lot of pride and anger, and fronting them out in front of their peers (or people who look up to them) can often result in a less-than-pleasant outcome for the front-er. Locke knows what I'm talkin' about.
Hi All! I am having a &*$#@^%$& of a time getting online today, after installing the damm new McAfee security software, so sorry if all this has been said an hour ago. :-(
Right Scoutpost, instead of Tom drawing a line IN the sand, he drew a line OF sand. Heh-heh, OK, not too funny. :o)
Ange, no, I said last night that I will not accept voodoo in the story!! :o) But that is interesting what you said about it perhaps being crushed magnetic rock from the island. Remember the magnetic ore that could blow up the supersoldiers in the X-Files? Could be like that! Good thinking. And true Cattygirl, maybe it does keep him in!
Oo, Melissa, I like your time phase theory for Jacob. He could be floating in and out of our time, and sometimes he's invisible and sometimes not.
Yeah Maven, I had very weird dreams all night long. BTW, this avi is for your dad. XO And I bet that the jars are just filled with Jacob's homemade hootch! :o) Or they could be like Howard Hughes' jars, if you kow what I mean.
Bigdog said: "if his daughter gives you a gun and you think he ben crazy when he takes you to a mass grave site you might not want to turn your back on him." Too true, haha!!! Locke is such a dope, he gets so involved with his big plans that he can't concentrate on what is going on around him! Not good at situational awareness at all!
OK, here's my theory on how Jcaob summons peeps, he appears to you as someone in your memory. that's why Richard was so excited when Li'l Ben told him that he saw his mother. That meant that Jacob was summoning Ben, and it was a sign. So, that does not explain why he may have summoned Jack by appearing to him as his dad, and then Jack was not on his list. So, I'm sure I'm wrong.
Great minds and thought today LoCos!!!
Okay I'm back and pretty much caught up.
ange
Those are great questions about the plane it could be any of those.
I seen the red jars in the window and went straight for the morbid again and thought it was blood. I missed the dog painting I'll have to go check it out at Dark UFO thanks.
cattygirl
I like the idea that the black powder ring is to keep Jacob in.
bigdog
Never thought of valcano ash. I went straight for the morbid on that one too (crushed bones). Locke figured what Ben was up to about a split second to late you can see him going for his weapon just before Ben shoots him.
TBP
I see you caught Ben saying he was one of the people smart enough to make sure he didn't end up in that ditch. So how many of the "others" are left over Dharma and how many are native/hostiles?
The natives don't seem to be to primative to me even though Jacob doesn't like technology. They had weapons and gas and seem to have them when Ben was a boy.
Dennis
Thanks for removing the spoiler but I already read it last night, but you never know about those kind of things they can go either way and aren't always correct. Time will tell.
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