Wednesday, May 02, 2007


Tonight we should get some insight into Locke's time with the Others and maybe some clues about how Anthony Cooper ended up on the island. It also looks like Sawyer will be tempted when Locke approaches him with some serious dirty work. The promo teases that "loyalties are tested" and "alliances are broken" as survivors begin to process the presence of the mysterious parachutist and her insights on the fate of Oceanic Flight 815.


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scoutpost said...

Sayid's girl- True that Sawyer should've had a chance to walk away- but do you think he would have if he wasn't locked up? Not saying he wouldn't just wondering. I guess my judgement on Locke and Sawyer is clouded by the fact that I SOOOO wanted A Coop dead. Guess this is something I should examine over on SOTL!

capcom said...

I agree Sayidsgirl, Sawyer should have had the choice to not kill! That was one of the very disturbing things to me about this ep. Locke was pretty much forcing someone to kill. Of course, Sawyer could have chosen to die of starvation lying in his (and Coop's) own feces, but you know what I mean.

Doc Jensen's theory about Lost being like Willy Wonka is neat. It does kind of seem to me as if Ben is grooming Locke to be his replacement, in case he doesn't recover. Ben has to make sure that Locke is as self-righteous, and at the same time as machiavellian(sp?) and as devious as he is, before turning everything over to Locke. The way the whole thing with Locke making someone else do bad things exercise played out, it is exactly what Ben does to his peeps.

Read the Doc J. explanation, it's hilarious!

Sayid'sgirl said...

No, I'm not so sure Sawyer would have walked away. I just didn't like the fact he was trapped without a choice. You would think if you want someone dead so badly you wouldn't go puke afterward. He seemed so upset after he did it. Maybe it's just me but I felt so bad for him.

memphish said...

Even though Sawyer was locked in the room with A Coop he still had a choice. The choice he made was even tougher because he had to kill hands on rather than from the distance a gun gives you like he did with Duckett.

Did you notice, this time he showed "Sawyer" the letter first. I guess James has learned something.

Cooper had choices too. He didn't have to be a prick. He could have said, "Sorry I screwed your life up kid," but no. I think Cooper's extreme beligerance (sp?) could indicate that he is part of a therapy set up be it Smokey, smoke and mirrors, what have you.

And Scoutpost, thanks for noticing the Bali thing. If my loved one was supposed to be heading to LA from Sydney and ended up in Bali there would be a lot of splainin to do to me.

scoutpost said...

I think he puked because it was a huge life moment for him- all his life he wanted to confront this man and he finally did what he dreamed of doing for years. I think it was just the enormity of the situation. But that's just my opinion.

I'm starting to question why I was not more disturbed about the situation....yikes.

scoutpost said...

Yeah memphish, that Bali thing is really bugging me. I mean if you were the person covering up the crash- why not do it in the large expanse of ocean that exists between Sydney and LA? I mean you could say the airline was off course and the black box never recovered, but you would always have conspiracy theorists and family who would want to know how the plane got that far off course and couldn't land somewhere else in Australia or on one of the many other islands of Indonesia near Bali, etc. Seems like if you were doing the cover up you'd want to avoid all possible problems.
Now this is stretching it but Bali is more in the vicinity of Sri Lanka (remember from TLE?). Could there be something to that?

memphish said...

Scoutpost, Bali would be closer to Sri Lanka than Fiji, and Bali is closer to Nigeria.

But if you're going to fake a crash, why there?

maven said...

I sure hope this Bali crash site thing gets answered somewhere down the line. It definitely seems so out there for no reason.

scoutpost said...

Why? I have no idea....

memphish said...

Check out Vozzek over at DarkUFO. He's got some good points like Ben left Locke just like his dad always did. Smart guy/girl that Vozzek.

maven said...

If you take Cooper at face value (and I often do for what happens on Lost), and you buy his story that he was abducted and drugged and taken to this island and basically tortured, then what Locke and Sawyer went through is really creepy. By Ben forcing Locke into "proving" himself to the island in order to become fully committed and learn the island's mysteries, puts Locke in an awful situation. Sure his father is the root cause of all his problems and issues. But to publicly urge Locke to kill his father (probably knowing full well he wouldn't), is pretty cruel on Ben's part. It's most likely his overall plan to control Locke and his "specialness". But to also through Sawyer into the mix is beyond manipulation. Both Sawyer and Locke needed to meet their demons head on (manifested in Cooper), but I really had a lot of sympathy for both men being put through this "test".

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Ebonflame said...

but if TLE had stuff in Sri Lanka it would be very likely that they could have ditched a plane in Bali, plus bali is very accessilbe and it is more likely that someone could find a plane there, then way out somewhere in the middle of the Pacific

capcom said...

Vozzek was fast this ep! Tx for the heads-up.

I agree with you Maven. And the whole, "He isn't what we thought he was", was very bizarre. Like, "Sorry folks, no be-heading tonight, Locke's a weenie!". :-p

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Erich said...

Man, this is one popular episode! I wish I could have done more than skim through all the comments.

My thoughts:

- I still believe Naomi's legit. The Portuguese connection from last year's finale, coupled with the fact that TPTB need to follow up on the Penny search is enough for me.

- Every time I sit down and start going through all the unanswered questions, and possibilities for crosses and double-crosses and triple-crosses, etc. I end up thinking Ben has to be behind things. But I think we're giving him way too much credit. He's not omnipotent. For his character to be interesting ultimately, he can't be behind everything that's going on, which is why:

- I definitely think there's a faction of Others opposed to Ben. Cuselof said recently there are two groups of Others, and I think this is what they were referring to. I think Alpert wants to undermine Ben, and I also think:

- Jack and Juliet are in it together, and are working to undermine Ben. I DON'T think Jack is an Other, because I don't think (in her heart) Juliet is one, either. She obviously hates Ben, but needs him to think she's with him. She's been openly mad at him before, so why not end her recorded message with "I hate you," instead of saying it to no one?

- Now we know that Locke is only interested in himself. He basically forced Sawyer to do his dirty work, and has shown himself more than willing to toss people aside if they don't help him in his commune-with-the-island "journey." That makes him untrustworthy, which is one reason I think Jack has to end up being a "good guy" in the end.

- I think the whole "hell" thing was in there for the fans. The casual viewer may wonder if there's any truth in it, but we know (97%-ish?) there isn't. The fact that people can die on the island is enough proof. That's why Cooper was so cocky with Sawyer. He didn't think anything could happen to him.

- The plane crash is a fake. The Others obviously have some money behind whatever they're doing. My off-the-wall guess is that they're being funded by Mr. Widmore (aka Jacob). He has the "cash to fake the crash," and his classification of Desmond as "unworthy" is eerily similar to how the Others think.

Okay, that was longer than I thought it'd be. I look forward to talking about it more here and on my blog (I really appreciated the comments people left there last week!)

capcom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DiggityDirge said...

When Naomi was discussing the island not there then appearing, I definelty got a "Bermuda Triangle" feeling. And teh Bermuda Trangle stories/myths/legends definetly deal with time disparities.

That has been my thoery from the beginning. Since no one can find the island and we never get to see anyone leave it I don't have a lot of ammo, but I definetly lead towards a Bermuda Triangle scenario rather than a hell or time warp scenario.

DiggityDirge said...

Jason said.....When Naomi was discussing the island not there then appearing, I definelty got a "Bermuda Triangle" feeling. And teh Bermuda Trangle stories/myths/legends definetly deal with time disparities.

That has been my therry from the beginning. Since no one can find the island and we never get to see anyone leave it I don't have a lot of ammo, but I definetly lead towards a Bermuda Triangle scenario rather than a hell or time warp scenario.

DiggityDirge said...

admin said....Who can tell me the difference between Limbo & Purgatory? Neither of those really fit my personal understanding of the Bible so I haven't studied them much. Is it possible that the creators are proposing that the Losties are in some sort of "after-life" state besides Purgatory?

Does anyone remember if Damon & Carlton have categorically denied that the Losties are dead? Could they be in comas?

Funny, I thought researched the exact thing last night and planned on posting something similar today. Being a catholic, here's my stab from the best definitions i can find.

(Late Latin limbus) a word of Teutonic derivation, meaning literally "hem" or "border," as of a garment, or anything joined on (cf. Italian lembo or English limb).

In theological usage the name is applied to (a) the temporary place or state of the souls of the just who, although purified from sin, were excluded from the beatific vision until Christ's triumphant ascension into Heaven (the "limbus patrum"); or (b) to the permanent place or state of those unbaptized children and others who, dying without grievous personal sin, are excluded from the beatific vision on account of original sin alone (the "limbus infantium" or "puerorum").

Purgatory (Lat., "purgare", to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.

Temporal Punishment
That temporal punishment is due to sin, even after the sin itself has been pardoned by God, is clearly the teaching of Scripture. God indeed brought man out of his first disobedience and gave him power to govern all things (Wisdom 10:2), but still condemned him "to eat his bread in the sweat of his brow" until he returned unto dust. God forgave the incredulity of Moses and Aaron, but in punishment kept them from the "land of promise" (Numbers 20:12). The Lord took away the sin of David, but the life of the child was forfeited because David had made God's enemies blaspheme His Holy Name (2 Samuel 12:13-14). In the New Testament as well as in the Old, almsgiving and fasting, and in general penitential acts are the real fruits of repentance (Matthew 3:8; Luke 17:3; 3:3). The whole penitential system of the Church testifies that the voluntary assumption of penitential works has always been part of true repentance and the Council of Trent (Sess. XIV, can. xi) reminds the faithful that God does not always remit the whole punishment due to sin together with the guilt. God requires satisfaction, and will punish sin, and this doctrine involves as its necessary consequence a belief that the sinner failing to do penance in this life may be punished in another world, and so not be cast off eternally from God.

Venial Sins
All sins are not equal before God, nor dare anyone assert that the daily faults of human frailty will be punished with the same severity that is meted out to serious violation of God's law. On the other hand whosoever comes into God's presence must be perfectly pure for in the strictest sense His "eyes are too pure, to behold evil" (Habakkuk 1:13). For unrepented venial faults for the payment of temporal punishment due to sin at time of death, the Church has always taught the doctrine of purgatory.

LostIt said...

Boy am I late to the party or what?

capcom said...
Ange, that would explain why Ben thinks he is good and does not lie....the other Ben is the one that lies and kills.

This just made me think of the Thomas Tryon novel "The Other" about twins - one good and one bad - that had an interesting twist at the end

****spoiler for the book "The Other" ****

It turned out that one of the twins had died and the one that was alive was playing both roles believing that the evil one was the other and that he was the good one"

***** end spoiler *****

LostIt said...

I had a thought about killing Cooper lifting the burden off of Locke.

I think the lesson there is that it didn't lift his burden. Locke's still carrying out the corpse of his father - though now it's in a physical sense rather than emotional.

The free will thing. Killing Cooper would be a willful act (sacrifice?) in order to be considered an Other. Kind of like an initiation type of thing like they do in gangs. It shows that he's making a conscious decision and demonstrates his desire to be one of them.

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