Thursday, May 03, 2007

THE BRIG - SEASON 3, EPISODE 19 (POST 2)










The discussion is mounting (free from Word Verifications...Woohoo!). To alleviate the lag time waiting for the comments page to load, we give you this post. Take a minute to review the comments on the first post for this episode to avoid rehashing something that has already been hashed to death. If you've never participated in the lively conversations on this blog, now is the time to jump right in!

249 comments:

1 – 200 of 249   Newer›   Newest»
Ebonflame said...

but if TLE had stuff in Sri Lanka it would be very likely that they could have ditched a plane in Bali, plus bali is very accessilbe and it is more likely that someone could find a plane there, then way out somewhere in the middle of the Pacific

Ebonflame said...

and i still think that it is very possible that Mr. Paik could have sold his daughter and her husband, plus all the other people on the plane, to Mittlewerk and Hanso for some kind of research that the other's are doing. He would have sold them out because they were trying to escape. Perhaps Sun found something out about what her father really does and who he works with. and we all know that if he can give sun 100k as easily as he did he can afford a massive coverup of the planecrash, and perhaps have just made the fake videofeed like earlier suggested

maven said...

Thanks, Admin, the the new thread!

Re the Bali location: Is this the only place that has a 4 mile deep canyon in the area which would make it hard for anyone to actually go down and examine wreakage for themselves?

memphish said...

But how could the plane have been so off course as to get to Bali? Check out this map and note Bali, Sydney and Fiji.

Then look at this map that shows you the airplane route from Sydney to Los Angeles.

Then remember what the pilot said in The Pilot:
6 hours in. Our radio went out, no one could see us. We turned back to land in Fiji, by the time we hit turbulence we were 1000 miles off course. They're looking for us in the wrong place.

And what Desmond said about where he'd been for the last 2 weeks in LTDA:
I was sailing for two and half weeks, bearing due West and making 9 knots. I should have been in Fiji in less than a week.

Erich said...

My luck to write a novel just as a lag alleviation post goes up...

(repost:)

Man, this is one popular episode! I wish I could have done more than skim through all the comments.

My thoughts:

- I still believe Naomi's legit. The Portuguese connection from last year's finale, coupled with the fact that TPTB need to follow up on the Penny search is enough for me.

- Every time I sit down and start going through all the unanswered questions, and possibilities for crosses and double-crosses and triple-crosses, etc. I end up thinking Ben has to be behind things. But I think we're giving him way too much credit. He's not omnipotent. For his character to be interesting ultimately, he can't be behind everything that's going on, which is why:

- I definitely think there's a faction of Others opposed to Ben. Cuselof said recently there are two groups of Others, and I think this is what they were referring to. I think Alpert wants to undermine Ben, and I also think:

- Jack and Juliet are in it together, and are working to undermine Ben. I DON'T think Jack is an Other, because I don't think (in her heart) Juliet is one, either. She obviously hates Ben, but needs him to think she's with him. She's been openly mad at him before, so why not end her recorded message with "I hate you," instead of saying it to no one?

- Now we know that Locke is only interested in himself. He basically forced Sawyer to do his dirty work, and has shown himself more than willing to toss people aside if they don't help him in his commune-with-the-island "journey." That makes him untrustworthy, which is one reason I think Jack has to end up being a "good guy" in the end.

- I think the whole "hell" thing was in there for the fans. The casual viewer may wonder if there's any truth in it, but we know (97%-ish?) there isn't. The fact that people can die on the island is enough proof. That's why Cooper was so cocky with Sawyer. He didn't think anything could happen to him.

- The plane crash is a fake. The Others obviously have some money behind whatever they're doing. My off-the-wall guess is that they're being funded by Mr. Widmore (aka Jacob). He has the "cash to fake the crash," and his classification of Desmond as "unworthy" is eerily similar to how the Others think.

Okay, that was longer than I thought it'd be. I look forward to talking about it more here and on my blog (I really appreciated the comments people left there last week!)

tall guy said...

I wonder what danelle is planning to do with the dynamite?

And did you notice that Sayed thought that the sat phone was a little more advanced than he's seen before. Another nod to the time distortion effect of the Island.

scoutpost said...

I know memphish- it makes absolutely no sense. I'm telling you, any day now Jeff Probst is gonna come walking out of the jungle!- that is actually starting to make more sense. haha

What if there were two flt 815's? One was supposed to go to LA from Sydney, and one was actually a secret plane, misleading the people on board that they were going on flt 815 to LA but was actually slated to go somewhere else (in the direction of Bali) courtesy of the Hanso foundation. Then suppose both crashes were accidents- but because our Losties crashed in the Twilight Zone they haven't been located, while the other 815 was found and that is the reason the world is accepting the info? Ok this is confusing even me.

maven said...

Erich said: I think the whole "hell" thing was in there for the fans
Agreed. I think Cooper made all the Hell references as a shoutout to the fans base. He might believe he was in hell having been abducted, drugged and tortured on this island (which is hotter than heaven). Also, believing that 815 crashed and Locke died in the crash (according to the news reports), why wouldn't it be hell?

memphish said...

Scoutpost said, I'm telling you, any day now Jeff Probst is gonna come walking out of the jungle! LOL!

memphish said...

So Ben told Locke we're going to take your women, we've done it before, no one will get hurt. I think Ben told Locke that so that he would inform the LOSTies so that the LOSTies will cowboy up and Ben will be justified in eliminating all the LOSTies he wants to because they will have started it.

scoutpost said...

memphish seriously- if Jeff Probst isn't on LOST island, he has to be near there somewhere with a group of "Survivors"- all those islands are in the same vicinity of the Pacific. He may be their best hope for rescue. LOL

scoutpost said...

I think you're right memphish- Ben is playing the game so many steps ahead of everyone else- he definitely told Locke about the plan and showed him where the tape recorder was because he wanted Locke to warn the Losties. Locke (and frankly everyone else) is playing right into his hands unbeknownst (sp?) to them.

Ebonflame said...

So continuing my earlier theory that Sun's father is covering up the plane crash i am more certian after last night's episode. during the lost experience over the summer Paik Heavy Industries was selling technologies and stuff to the Hanso Foundation. Last week we were confirmed that Sun's father Mr. Paik is the head of Paik Heavy Industries (the logo on the wall said so). and if he can give sun 100 thousand dollars like it is nothing he can afford a big coverup. Also Naomi (parachute girl) said that they found the plane off of Bali. why would a plane that was flying northeast of sidney end up in bali. even when the pilot said in the first episode that they turned around for figi and were 1000 miles off course figi is still northeast of sydney while bali is closer to nigeria and sri lanka and is like 2000 miles northwest of sydney. it makes no sense why the plane would be there. BUT in the lost experience the Hanso foundation and Paik heavy industries were doing work in sri lanka and Naomi said they saw the plane with those robot subs that have the camera's it is possible that the footage is fake, or that the plane was planted because Paik is mad that his daughter and jin were running away. so i think he sold them and the other passengers to Hanso and the others, and then he helped cover it up. what do you think?

Ebonflame said...

i don't mean to beat my whole Sun and Jin more important then people think theory to death but seriously it sorta makes sense to me, but at the same time i want it to because they are my favorite characters

scoutpost said...

ebonflame- I think you have a lot of good points. I think no doubt that the "cover up" or whatever happened could be funded by Paik and/or Widmore. And there is something, although I really don't know what, behind the fact that the crash site was near Bali. Sun and Jin's stories have definitely come more to the forefront lately.

maven said...

Ebonflame and Scoutpost: I also agree that someone (most likely Paik/Widmore/Hanso/Mittelos) staged the crash deep in an ocean canyon (thereby being inaccessible to the curious and authorities). They most like picked Bali because it's as far as they could go realistically from where the real 815 "crashed". Consequently, they don't want anyone digging around close to where the Losties are.

Administrator said...

memphish said...

So Ben told Locke we're going to take your women, we've done it before, no one will get hurt. I think Ben told Locke that so that he would inform the LOSTies so that the LOSTies will cowboy up and Ben will be justified in eliminating all the LOSTies he wants to because they will have started it.

Great point! I don't think Ben wants to eliminate ALL the LOSTies. Some he wants to eliminate, some he wants to "acquire", and some he wants to put through a test to determine their fate (elimination or acquisition). Everyone is a different type of target to Ben. Why is still a mystery. But I'm sure he has a good reason right?

Administrator said...

On a funny sidenote:

My wife leads a Bible Study of High School girls. Some of them were over at our house last night and we asked them if they watched LOST. A few of them did. When discussing it one of the girls said, "I've got it figured out but I won't tell you because I don't want to ruin it for you." I laughed inside because I knew whatever was coming would be funny. I told her to go ahead and tell me her theory but she inisted that she didn't want to spoil anything for you. I assured her it would be okay. She said..."Are you sure you want to know (dramatic pause)...They're in Purgatory!"

This is coming from a High School sophomore who has never visited a single website or message board or listened to any LOST related podcasts. All that to say...There are millions of viewers out there that are just like her. They are the majority and we (online people) are the minority relatively speaking. I totally think the whole "hell" theme that ran through last night's episode was a misdirecting tease aimed at the casual viewer and an inside joke for us. Also, if we keep speculating on Purgatory and the like, we aren't really breaking new ground...the high school volleyball players already have that one figured out.

:)

maven said...

Great story, Admin!

Totally agree with you that the hell hints were a red herring and we all know better. It's funny who the casual viewers probably think they have it all figured out now. LOL

maven said...

*how

Sorry!

Erich said...

It's impossible to know what watching Lost would be like if I didn't frequent this site, or listen to the OLP, or have participated in the Lost Experience last summer...but sometimes I wonder.

I mean, that's who the show is written for, in large part. Whatever the payoff for all these mysteries, it has to make sense to the casual viewer.

Erich said...

Another great Doc Jensen post. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of Mr. The Hutt when Sawyer choke-chained Cooper.

Great news about his wife, as well!

2costa said...

Another reason them finding the plane doesnt fit is it doesnt jive with the lost experience time line and press release document about the crash. I know that they are not the same thing but i think they might cross back over. For ben to have all this pull to do recruiting and underwater camera coverups he needs a financial arm outside the island and mittleos bioscience just makes me think that they will tie it all back into tle. Mittlewerk is funding this. To take that alvar video coming clean at the end of the tle is not in the spirit of lost. With the imagery of locke going back to the black rock and magnus hanso being buried there and the smoke(cerebus) tieing into the fact that alvar may have been lying also. With the speculation that the degroots may have been a propaganda tool,since the name of the characters that start the dharma thing in a future episode isnt degroot. If any of this is true it would reason that Richard is more sympathetic to Mittlewerk where as Ben wants to solve the fertility thing and cut ties to mittlewerk and everybody else?

2costa said...

If there is any truth to what Mikhail has us beleive about the island bringing him back to life Cooper could easily come back to life with such a mild death. I know the island only heals who it wants to so cooper prolly need not aply for dharma blue cross...

memphish said...

And 2costa, again we didn't see a pulse getting checked and Locke's invovled. :)

I like Ebonflame and 2costas theories that try to take it back to TLE because it makes me feel like I didn't waste Summer 2006.

Funny story admin. After last night, does she think it's Hell?

scoutpost said...

David that is so funny about the high schoolers.

OT- but since this is TLE anniversary week- I wonder where and what the following people are doing:
belly of desire (he has poked his head in here a couple of times since the end of TLE to say hi, but that's all)
tapdawg, ryandrumz, matt the pale, lhorse007, dr.spongebob "chris" shepherd, shellma, sean and megs, and what was the gal from Chicago? And I wonder what Dark Angel is doing? Wonder if he'll be coming back sometime? We miss you Dark Angel.

Ebonflame said...

Yea i would definately be very disappointed if they didn't tie stuff back to TLE. I also like how they poke fun at all the "it's purgatory!" people out there. my mom and 2 of my brothers are convinced it's purgatory, and none of them payed attention to the lost experience. i have been trying to explain to them all season about Mittlewerk and all his crazy stuff and how they have to tie it back or else what was the point with all the ads on tv and stuff? my mom is starting to believe me (she texts me questions about when stuff happened and who did what during the show since i don't live at home anymore) but my brothers are still convinced and i'll just laugh when it ends and they are disappointed!

Ebonflame said...

Also what do you think is going on with Jack and Juliet?
1) Jack has been turned to their side
-or-
2) Juliet hates ben bc he won't let her leave that her and Alpert have started a coup d'etat in the others camp and she brought jack into the plan. that might explain why alpert was talking to locke about the pregnency thing not being their biggest problem.

scoutpost said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ange said...

Costa and memphish: there was not a pulse checked with Cooper, but one would think that carrying a dead guy on your back you might be able to tell if he was all dead or mostly dead…although I have never done that so I really wouldn’t know (hehehe)

Theory/Question: What the heck determines if someone gets healed or if dead, stays that way. Do you need to be literally blown to bits or shot to stay dead? I guess we need more story on that to know which direction to lean.

Scoutpost: RE your OT, I can fill you in on Shellma…there’s a baby on the way there, and LHorse and wife are currently building a house, oh and his poor dog has a broken leg. That’s all I got in the alum area though :D.

2costa said...

well the way lockes legs started going bad when he was asked by the island to sacrifice boone. The way ben was stroking locke's ego about needing him around to heal they or ben would have us think that the island only cures those that are deserving, but I wonder if locke has a chip implant too and maybe that was Ben or the man behind the curtain f'ing with locke

2costa said...

I think in Lockes mind he already gave the island its sacrifice with boone and thats why he couldnt bring himself to do coop himself...

Amused2bHere said...

If not purgatory, then I vote for alternate universe/timeline.

And it was I who suggested the book club for the summer hiatus. I would love suggestions...strangely enough, Lostpedia doesn't have a list of literature connected to Lost. They only list "Of Mice and Men" by Steinbeck.

So far I have:

Of Mice and Men
The Third Policeman
Carrie
Animal Farm
Lord of the Flies
Wizard of Oz
Wrinkle in Time
A Brief History of Time (we might want to skip this one)

Amused2bHere said...

And Watership Down

Ange said...

amused2bhere: Dark UFO has a book section HERE
It looks pretty comprehensive.

FYSB said...

I LOVE the idea of a book club. Things were so quiet around here during the hiatus, it could be a long summer otherwise.

Quick observation...when Sawyer is in the brig with the kidneystealing dad, he asks him if he's ever been to Jasper Alabama. Cooper replies something like "Don't tell me I'm your daddy". I thought that was interesting in that Cooper's impact on young James Ford created the man who became Sawyer.

And put me in the no purgatory camp. I was there before David's high school story, but that just cemented it. (and made me laugh out loud! here's hoping Cruse and Lindlelof are more sophisticated than the volleyball team)

DiggityDirge said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DiggityDirge said...

jason said...
When Naomi was discussing the island not there then appearing, I definelty got a "Bermuda Triangle" feeling. And teh Bermuda Trangle stories/myths/legends definetly deal with time disparities.

That has been my thoery from the beginning. Since no one can find the island and we never get to see anyone leave it I don't have a lot of ammo, but I definetly lead towards a Bermuda Triangle scenario rather than a hell or time warp scenario.

DiggityDirge said...

admin said....Who can tell me the difference between Limbo & Purgatory? Neither of those really fit my personal understanding of the Bible so I haven't studied them much. Is it possible that the creators are proposing that the Losties are in some sort of "after-life" state besides Purgatory?

Does anyone remember if Damon & Carlton have categorically denied that the Losties are dead? Could they be in comas?


Funny, I thought researched the exact thing last night and planned on posting something similar today. Being a catholic, here's my stab from the best definitions i can find.

Limbo
(Late Latin limbus) a word of Teutonic derivation, meaning literally "hem" or "border," as of a garment, or anything joined on (cf. Italian lembo or English limb).

In theological usage the name is applied to (a) the temporary place or state of the souls of the just who, although purified from sin, were excluded from the beatific vision until Christ's triumphant ascension into Heaven (the "limbus patrum"); or (b) to the permanent place or state of those unbaptized children and others who, dying without grievous personal sin, are excluded from the beatific vision on account of original sin alone (the "limbus infantium" or "puerorum").


Purgatory (Lat., "purgare", to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.

Temporal Punishment
That temporal punishment is due to sin, even after the sin itself has been pardoned by God, is clearly the teaching of Scripture. God indeed brought man out of his first disobedience and gave him power to govern all things (Wisdom 10:2), but still condemned him "to eat his bread in the sweat of his brow" until he returned unto dust. God forgave the incredulity of Moses and Aaron, but in punishment kept them from the "land of promise" (Numbers 20:12). The Lord took away the sin of David, but the life of the child was forfeited because David had made God's enemies blaspheme His Holy Name (2 Samuel 12:13-14). In the New Testament as well as in the Old, almsgiving and fasting, and in general penitential acts are the real fruits of repentance (Matthew 3:8; Luke 17:3; 3:3). The whole penitential system of the Church testifies that the voluntary assumption of penitential works has always been part of true repentance and the Council of Trent (Sess. XIV, can. xi) reminds the faithful that God does not always remit the whole punishment due to sin together with the guilt. God requires satisfaction, and will punish sin, and this doctrine involves as its necessary consequence a belief that the sinner failing to do penance in this life may be punished in another world, and so not be cast off eternally from God.

Venial Sins
All sins are not equal before God, nor dare anyone assert that the daily faults of human frailty will be punished with the same severity that is meted out to serious violation of God's law. On the other hand whosoever comes into God's presence must be perfectly pure for in the strictest sense His "eyes are too pure, to behold evil" (Habakkuk 1:13). For unrepented venial faults for the payment of temporal punishment due to sin at time of death, the Church has always taught the doctrine of purgatory.

Amused2bHere said...

Jay and Jack have said that the Hugo cup voting will start this Monday

We'll have one week to vote, from Monday to Monday. Let's hope The Lost Community is one of the finalists!

btw, they mentioned our Lost Community Podcast! Passafist and Goog mentioned that Jay and Jack are father and son in their last podcast, and Jay&Jack won't confirm or deny...hmmm. More fishiness...

Sayid'sgirl said...

Another book is Our Mutual Friend

DiggityDirge said...

I would definetly rule Limbo out for the losties since for the most part they have all done something bad in their time/life.

Not to mention that Catholics have recently decided to eliminate Limbo from our religion al together. When it comes to religion Catholics set the pace :) j/k

This all from an Italian Catholic guy born and raised in Mormonville. (Salt Lake City, UT) 12 years of Catholic school. No I'm not slow :) K-12

Amused2bHere said...

Thanks Ange, for the darkufo list. Once the season ends, we should vote on what books to read, or maybe take turns choosing.

I've read some, but not all. In any case, the list is open to suggestions. We could even open another blog just for the book club, like the SotL blog.

We could even mix it up and watch movies instead. Enough Star Wars references for me to suggest that!

maven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
maven said...

Amused and Ange: Count me in on the Lost Book Club! I'll finally read all those books! This would really keep a lot of us in touch this summer and keep our idle minds busy. LOL

capcom said...

Ebonflame, I was surprised that Paik had that much money and more sitting behind his desk chair!! He must do a lot of over-the-desk bribery, ya think?

I hope that Danielle is going to blow up Otherville...."Take that you feelthy peegs!" BOOM! :o)

I wouldn't be too disappointed if part of the mystery turns out to be Bermuda Triangle related, but not too much, as it's been so done-to-death.

I'm open to a Lost Break Book Club, for sure. It would be like the Others' book club. :-D

Codysmom said...

Hello LoCos!!! It took me forever to catch up on all the posts!

How's this for another book, "Little Dorrit" by Charles Dickens. People have been trying to anagram the name Naomi Dorrit, but someone on another blog said, "Little Dorrit was a book by Dickens about people in a debtors prison. Can't get out of debtor's prison unless you can pay your debt...sounds like a metaphor to me!"

I haven't read it, but thought this was interesting....

capcom said...
I hope that Danielle is going to blow up Otherville...."Take that you feelthy peegs!" BOOM! :o)
LOL!!

capcom said...

We could just work our way through the books in order of appearance on the show maybe.

DiggityDirge said...

I wish my A.D.D. personality would allow me to read those books this summer with you guys. I need something more interactive for those of us with a very short attention span.

Watching LOST is the most dedicated I get for an hour in my entire week.

capcom said...

....And can't pay your debt unless you get out of prison. Also a Cath-22!

Codysmom said...

The only good anagrams I could come up with for Naomi Dorrit was:
RAID MONITOR
TANDOORI RIM
AT INDOOR RIM

The tandoori rim one got me in a google search where I found a restaurant in Phuket:)

TANDOORI RIM
Restaurants and Bars in Phuket

Baan Rim Pa Restaurant
Address: 100/7 Kalim Beach Road Phuket 83150
Tel: (076) 340-789 Fax: (076) 342-460

capcom said...

Diggity, you could try the Cliff Notes versions! :o)

DiggityDirge said...

lol capcom....pretty good advice. I'm thinking I might dedicate the summer to the LOST video game, after it comes out ofcourse.

Anyone else a gamer?

capcom said...

No-bleep, Phuket? This show and TPTB get weirder by the episode!

DiggityDirge said...

gotta catch a plane home....see you all tomorrow.

Codysmom said...

Yeah, capcom, I thought that was funny to come upon that. Everything from a google of tandoori rim came back about Indian cooking and restaurants...

capcom said...

Is the game going to be expensive? I am a total non-game-palying idiot, and do not know anything about them. Is there a website (ABC maybe?) where you can read about it? Tx.

Codysmom said...

if diggity hasn't gone yet, I saved this from the previous post because I thought it was good...

DiggityDirge said...
I guess the question left in my mind is why did Ben want Cooper dead. To prove that

he can control John? To free John's mind? To determine if Sawyer is capable of

killing? Did he somehow hurt Dharma or one of their intiatives.


These are all good questions..

Codysmom said...

and, yes, I'm a gamer.... Looking forward to the video game!

memphish said...

Aimee in Little Rock who does The Lost Initiative Podcast with Kimberly in Toronto has a complete list of LOST Books. She's even read most of them. She does a weekly book club segment on the podcast too, thanks to my suggestion. Yes I'm tooting my own horn.

I really like the TLI podcast, but it is for mature ears only and is not for everyone. They make me laugh though.

There is also a page on LostPedia under Literary Works, but Aimee's list is more complete.

Last summer the guys at LOSTCasts and I read some of the books as well including Island by Aldous Huxley, The Mysterious Island by Jules Verne and Watership Down by Richard Adams. I also read Our Mutual Friend last summer.

capcom said...

Safe trip Diggity!

Last night they replayed Ben stressing that Cooper was a result of The Box, and that Locke brought him there, not the Others or Ben. Is there a chance that it was not really Cooper? Or is Ben just acting like a coy little teenage girl? I'm confused.

Ange said...

Ya, book club, count me in for sure! I have set a goal to read 50 books by the end of the year (I've finished 16), and I have summers off, so HOORAY words and junk!
diggitydirge: Audio books? I hear they are great for flying.

capcom said...

Tx Memphish. 72 books, eh? That's ambitious, but we do have 2 1/2 seasons of the year to pass. No fair, you got a head start! Maybe I'll read the Cliff Notes too, and send them on to Diggity!

Codysmom said...

capcom, I think that was really Cooper... and of course, we know Ben is a liar (although he did fess up to the box being a metaphore)

DiggityDirge said...

the game will probably be $29.99 or $39.99. I think it will be out for PS2, PS3, and Xbox and Xbox 360.

Check out the link. TPTB talked about in the podcast and it seems cool.

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=14660

Audiobooks, another good idea. Thxs


Really got to go now....last call.....L8R

maven said...

Didn't realize how many books were either seen or referenced on the show! This will keep us busy for years. I've never been in a book club, so I'm very excited about this. How much time alloted for each book once we decide which one?

Capcom: I also agree that was really the real Cooper...who thinks he was in a car accident and is really in Hell (which he deserves)!

scoutpost said...

man I leave for a couple of hours for carpool and you guys take off! Book club sounds like a great idea- going to catch up on comments.

capcom said...

Me too Scoutpost, when I got back from doing the same thing! :-) This ep is smoking up the blog!

Tx for the Cooper replies.

Sayid'sgirl said...

codysmom
Thanks so much I've been trying to find that since the OLP said the name was Dicken-ese or something like that. Any didn't know the spelling and closed captioning on the tv had it wrong. Thanks again.

Codysmom said...

you're welcome, sg, I haven't read "Little Dorrit".... I need the Cliff notes:)

Thanks, diggity, for the game info. Have a safe trip!

scoutpost said...

I'm all for the book club, although I don't get much reading time (of course if I spent less time here that would open up some- LOL). I would like to follow along though- even if it has to be audio books or cliff notes! Great idea for the long break.

And don't forget The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand

memphish said...

The books and literary references are one of the reasons I love LOST. So far this season I've re-read:

A Tale of Two Cities
Evil Under the Sun
Alice in Wonderland
Through the Looking Glass

And Read:

The Third Policeman
Lancelot
Catch-22
Carrie
The Wizard of Oz
The Stand
Stranger in a Strange Land

I'm currently reading The Brothers Karamazov and Lord of the Flies. And I've got The Fountainhead, The Gunslinger and Of Mice and Men in my To Read stack.

capcom said...

Memphish, thanks for the map including Bali. How in the world can they justify the plane being way over there? Any pilot will see that as a 'Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot' report. Must have been some heavy winds in that direction! Now, the Marianas Trench I could fathom, if they went off course flying straight North. But Bali is in the complete opposite direction that the flight intended to go. I guess if they're going to lie, they're going to lie big.

maven said...

Capcom: I think whomever staged the crash said it was in a 4 mile deep ocean canyon off Bali because that's the complete opposite (in the area) of where the real 815 plane "crashed". They don't want anyone coming close to where everybody really is. I think the video of "dead bodies" was faked by either Mittelos/Paik/Widmore/Hanso (or all of them.)

2costa said...

The way the smoke sizes people up with the snapping pictures sounds, kate eko, locke) then seems to conjure up things from peoples memories. In the screencaps from the first time eko encountered the smoke it had snapshots from his past. It could be interpreted that whatever emotional baggage people are bringing to the island is brought with them. Jack brought his dad with him..ect So i think cooper could have definetly been smokey, which might explian the crowds bloodlust if they knew it wasn't real. It was Ben giving Locke the chance to do the ultimate role playing. Thats why i compared it to the HOlodeck on star trek. Yemey seemed darn real when he appeared to Eko. So ben could have said to Eko you brought yemey here. I think the magic box may be the super computer, it has all this intel on the losties and it spits out the answer of what each person needs most to move on, that sort of ties into locke having to beat the chess program to access the computer. In that scenario they gave the computer the ultimate power and one had to outwit it to gain access..

memphish said...

Capcom, that avatar is definitely your best yet! Can you make me one combining Jin's roundhouse kick and Chuck Norris' Texas Ranger hat? I want Jin to go kung fu on Jack and Juliet next week.

2costa said...

Plus maven Ben doesnt want anyone looking for them period cause he has plans for all of them. If the 2nd 815 was staged then that shows that ben never was gonna let jack or anyone else leave. I wonder if julliettes sister thinks she is dead as well?

2costa said...

Maybe one of Jin pulling out a handful of chuck norris' chesthair?

Ebonflame said...

all i have to say is i think Alpert=Jacob. what do you guys think?

memphish said...

I just had an idea about the crashed plane off Bali. Maybe they also put out a story of a rogue pilot who hijacked the plane and committed suicide like that Egypt Air flight. It's still pretty far fetched because you would think they'd been tracking the plane to beyond Fiji when they lost radio contact. It would have had enough fuel to get back to Bali though.

memphish said...

Ebonflame - at this point thinking about Jacob hurts my head. I still think Vincent is Jacob. They held up a bunch of photos and if he licked yours you were on the list. This does not mean I'm ruling out Alpert though.

2Costa that is an excellent question about what Rachel thinks. I'm betting Alpert paid her a little visit at some point and informed her of some horrible tragedy that occurred to Juliet (like a plane crash off Bali; JK).

capcom said...

Haha! I can try Memphish! As you can see, I'm not too swift with the real photo alterations. It's not as easy as the South Park style kindergarden-cartoons.

OK, I see what you're saying about getting any seekers as far away from the island area as possible. But dang, that's far-fetched. Well, what did it say on that Hanso Air website, that if 815 had their new autopilot system installed, it would not have gone off course and crashed? They can say that either the pilot was drunk, or that the plane got hijacked. :-)

capcom said...

Hoo-yeah 2costa, with Jin's head on Bruce Lee?! :-D

Memphish, you kill me! "OK, Vincent, who else do you want? Good boyyyyyyy!" LMAO!

scoutpost said...

Wow memphish- you're an avid reader. I guess you just qualified for book club leader.

capcom said...

I've read Stephen Hawking's "Brief History of Time" and just started his "Universe" book (but that's not on the list). Can I play too? Heh-heh.

Administrator said...

DiggityDirge,
Thanks for the info on purgatory & limbo. It's stirring my thinking about some new ideas.

All,
The idea of a book club is a good one. I'm open to using this blog to keep us all on the same page. Let's start thinking logistics...Realistic goals, discussions based on chapters, multiple chapters, entire books, etc?

This could be really fun! And it could also put us ahead of the game.

We should launch a massive campaign to try to get Damon & Carlton to suggest the top 5 books someone should read to deepen their understanding of Lost mythology. We could email Kristen at E!, Jeff Jensen, DocArzt, etc. and have everyone push to have the question answered.

capcom said...

Getting reading advice from TPTB sounds like a great idea Admin! Along with the rest of what you said. Would we start a new TLBC (The Lost Book Community) blog? Heheh.

R2K said...

Wild episode...

memphish said...

Capcom, Brief History of Time is on the list, it's just not on my list. The joke in our family is I'm not the scientist.

From the books we have so far, I'd suggest The Wonderful Wizard of Oz which is very different from the movie, is easy to draw paralells from, and is a quick read. That could get everyone going.

Then I'd say Watership Down but it's about 450 pages. Be forewarned, but it's appeared multiple times.

The Third Policeman should probably be on there as well, but frankly I didn't understand it.

maven said...

Great suggestion, David. We should be able to get some feedback from TPTB and also "advertise" more Lost fans to join in at TLBC!

LostIt said...

Boy am I late to the party or what?

capcom said...
Ange, that would explain why Ben thinks he is good and does not lie....the other Ben is the one that lies and kills.

This just made me think of the Thomas Tryon novel "The Other" about twins - one good and one bad - that had an interesting twist at the end

****spoiler for the book "The Other" ****


It turned out that one of the twins had died and the one that was alive was playing both roles believing that the evil one was the other and that he was the good one"


***** end spoiler *****

I also had a thought about killing Cooper lifting the burden off of Locke.

I think the lesson there is that it didn't lift his burden. Locke's still carrying out the corpse of his father - though now it's in a physical sense rather than emotional.

The free will thing. Killing Cooper would be a willful act (sacrifice?) in order to be considered an Other. Kind of like an initiation type of thing like they do in gangs. It shows that he's making a conscious decision and demonstrates his desire to be one of them.

memphish said...

There's a new OLP up. I'll make my spoiler report on it as soon as I listen.

Erich said...

I don't think it's been referenced on the show, but in several interviews I've heard Cuselof say the biggest influence on them in writing a complicated multi-character story is Stephen King's "The Stand." Probably too long for the Book Club, but still a great read...

memphish said...

The OLP is very spoiler light and is in fact very light in general. The only "spoilers" are who the next episode is primarily about and whether or not we will learn anything about a certain list maker and what the title of the episode refers to.

Other than that, we don't really learn anything. DL and CC did a bunch of radio interviews recently so if anyone has links or wants to look for links, they are out there somewhere.

They do refer to Joop and Hanso so if you need a TLE fix you can hear about last year and the fact there are no plans for more.

It sounds like the official announcement regarding a Jan-May run is coming up soon. They still haven't negotiated a final end date, but are still working on it, and they didn't mention moving it to an earlier time slot.

They will be a ComicCon again this summer, but didn't mention any other off-season content. I wonder what happened to Mobisodes?

memphish said...

Here's a crazy idea. If A Coop is on the Island because either Locke or Sawyer "conjured" him (for lack of a better word) there, did one of the Others "conjure" the survivors of Flight 815? Maybe Juliet in order to really be able to leave. Maybe Alpert to be able to overthrow Ben and get back to their primary mission?

Erich said...

Memphish: They've certainly suggested that 815 was brought to the island because they were "needed" there. Mostly that Ben needed a spinal surgeon and female test subjects, but I think you're right to suggest that certain survivors were needed by other Others (Juliet and Alpert included). What about Desmond? Did he need them?

memphish said...

Yeah, I thought of Desmond too Erich, but I think the Swan Hatch may have blocked his conjuring power. What Desmond needed was what happened to the Hatch at the end of LTDA so that Penny could find him. Plus we haven't seen Desmond "conjure" like Juliet did with the bus.

2costa said...

Ben pointed out that He had a surgeon (EthAN), which makes it all the more curious that he would send his surgeon to infiltrate the 815'ers on the day he found out he had a tumor.

memphish said...

I found this on USA Today's Pop Candy Blog LOST stuff posted by JMC5427:

My theory is that Juliet knows about the fake flight 815 crash discovery, so therfore she thinks it's impossible for anyone to be looking for them due to the media (in the real world) saying the flight was found, with bodies, all deceased. What she might not know is the Desmond/Penny angle, therefore she can only equate someone looking for them as family/friends of the 815 passengers. Because she knows that everyone on the mainland thinks everyone on 815 is dead, she may have let Jack know this (or he found out via Ben/other means during his 10 days with the Others), and that is the secret that they don't want to tell Kate yet, and everyone else for that matter (Jack's "we have a lot of catching up to do" line in the previews for next week), because it would obviously diminsh morale and hope for a rescue on the island.

That's a different take on things and I for one like it. If Jack is really in on the whole, I'm taking samples from the women in your group thing, I'm not going to be happy about it.

capcom said...

Hi LoCos! Well, we ran through that first post like lightning!

Don't forget Memphish, Atlas Shrugged is lonnnnnng too!

Thanks for the reminder of The Other, Lostit. Wasn't that made into a movie years ago as well? And was Tryon in it? I seem to remember something about a barn with hay in it. But I could be cross-remembering, wouldn't be the first time.

Also intersting is the comment you made about Locke carrying his dad. That's how I felt about it too. If you think that you can get rid of someone's influence by killing them, think again. Now Locke should (in the real world anyway) have his killed dad weighing down his conscience. That's what really freaked me out about this ep, how they kept implying that you can just kill someone off to get rid of their influence on your life. And you're right, it does seem like gang initiation. Blech.

Right Erich, there are many Stand-ish elements in Lost. Most obviously, the two camps set up for final confrontation. Too bad there is no Mother Abigail in Lost. Rose sort of started out to be like her, and then they dropped her like a hot potato! Oh well.

bigdog said...

just watched episode last night(love tivo) it was painful not to visit this site until today.

Re: Naomi saying she was not alone. technically she is not if her people are just 80 miles away.

diggity & Jason talked about bermuda triangle. was watching old x-files. Queen elizabeth boat appeared out of nowhere at sea. mulder goes to it and ends up in 1939, the episode was billed as the first kiss for S&M. Really reminded me of the whole Naomi thing.

If everyone from 815 is dead than michael & walt never made it back.

Dont think its hell just because it seems like they want us to think that. this show is buit around long cons..

capcom said...

That's an interesting post Memphish! Why didn't we think of that? But, the Campers (D,C,H,J,and S) and the parachuter might have already told Kate this. So unbeknownst to Jackiett, the news would be no biggie, which would be another "Haha I already knew that!" moment for Kate. :o) But that doesn't mean that TPTB might not still intend to portry that.

capcom said...

Hi Bigdog....funny, her people, LOL. :o) And right, Mike and Walt are now existing in a floating hell of their own. Just what a teenager always wanted!

FYSB said...

I think 2costa made an excellent point...there really was/is no way Ben is going to let the 815 survivors off the island, if his organization (Hanso?Mittleos?Evil Crazies Inc?) was the one which faked the Bali crash. I chuckle at the idea that Michael and Walt are stuck on that little boat for all eternity. Michael in the bow shouting "WAALLLLTTTT" and Walt in the stern desperately trying to summon up a polar bear to eat him.

bigdog said...

good morning capcom and everyone else as well.

i also think that whatever game jack & julles are playing jack is one step behind. I think from the others view he was only there to serve Bens purpose not the groups. And Locke is there to lead the flock.
ben told jack i need spinal surgery and a plane crashes with a spinal surgeon. then cindy tells locke a similar story about a paralyzed man who can walk.

bigdog said...

so much on my mind and i feel so late to the party.

where were alex and her boyfriend. i would think if locke is moving the tribe around looking for the tribal council that he would bring his daughter along. and maybe thats where rousseau is going with the dynamite.

if ben knew all along, as did the rest of us that locke wouldnt kill his dad, then why the show.

and where is the evil security lady that was the judge in juliets trial. i thought thats were cindy and the kids were.

ib4uc said...

bigdog said...if ben knew all along, as did the rest of us that locke wouldnt kill his dad, then why the show.

Ben knew Locke wouldn't kill his father, but maybe he didn't know about the little meeting between Richard and Locke. Can you imagine the look on Ben's face when Locke catches up to the others and he plops his lifeless dad-in-a-bag down? Priceless.

bigdog said...

what do i have blogger B.O.???

bigdog said...

ib4uc - yeah someone is here.

and yes it will be funny. do you think locke is suppose to take over for ben. and if so take over to do what? do they really even do anything other than torment the losties.

ib4uc said...

bigdog... I guess I never thought of Locke taking over for Ben, but, like you said, what exactly does Ben do except torment the losties?

He plays a wicked game of messing with their minds -- he must have a PhD in Mind Futsin'

capcom said...

That's funny to think about IB4UC, Locke comes strutting back with dad in tow, and Ben says, "Oh crap, he actually did it!"

I think that Ben is looking for a possible replacement to "groom", in case he doesn't recover, but I 'splained that on the last post. If Ben does recover, he could just keep newly-processed Locke around as a right hand man, or gofer.

I wonder if Ben will try to manipulate Sawyer, now that he has something on him since killing Coop? Poor James. :-(

BTW, do we think that Cindy really meant what she said to Locke, or was that all a part of the ruse to sway Locke as well? Along with the oh-so-public "Sorry folks...." from Ben at the planned public execution. I just don't know what to take at face value with Ben at all!

memphish said...

BigDog and ib4uc, you might want to check out Doc Arzt's musings about Locke being the main hero of LOST. You can read it here and if the first part makes you start to glaze over, skip down to the paragraph that begins My search has always been for the primary hero.

ib4uc said...

capcom... take nothing at face value with Ben. He's a compulsive liar and has absolutely no qualms about lying. He's "good" because he never bloodies his hands -- he always has someone else to do the dirty work, even if they don't realize it.

capcom said...

You're right IB4UC.

Thanks for the link to the Doc article Memphish! I don't really feel the need for a single hero on the island, but I'll see what Doc has to say and then maybe change my mind again, like I always do when I read someone else's ideas about Lost! Ack!

capcom said...

BTW Memphish, I looked at all the caps available on Lost-media for Jin's chop-socky fest on Patchy in that episode, but all those pics were blurry and bad. If you find a good one with Jin in focus, I'll try putting a Texas Ranger hat on that pic. :o)

martysbaybay said...

Capcom

Always get a kick out of your avitars but i can't quite make this one out. Perhaps you could give me a brief discription.

I don't see Ben as wanting to groom a replacement. In fact, i think that a replacement is what he fears most. If he can't control John he seeks to discredit him. Either way he is still in the driver's seat.

bigdog said...

memphish -thanks for the link. the only question i have is who would locke be a hero for? A hero to the losties would get them off the island. but i think a hero to the others may go down a whole different path.

capcom - Cindy really is a little creppy. everytime i see her i see her like a cult member. 100% follower of whatever the leader says.

why do you think that ben sold out Juliet? there is no way locke would have gotten that recording if he didnt want him to have it.

maven said...

Late Morning everyone (for me, at least!)

Capcom said: That's what really freaked me out about this ep, how they kept implying that you can just kill someone off to get rid of their influence on your life. And you're right, it does seem like gang initiation. Blech.
Totally agree with you. It's not so easy to let go. I guess they think it's very symbolic, but there's a lot more issues involved in Locke's life that's not going to be solved by offing Cooper. But the "test" aspect of this is troubling, too. Could it be Ben's way of proving he is the Chief Manipulator and, therefore, the true leader?

Memphish: It would be interesting if Jack is in on the con of knowing about what the world knows about Flight 815. First, it would show that Juliet is really against what Ben is doing and has her own agenda. As usual...if it was me and I knew what the world was told about my plane crash...I would be telling every Lostie I could find...not being secretive and planning some sort of "revenge".

thinbluemime said...

memphish said...

"you might want to check out Doc Arzt's musings..."

THANK-YOU memphish for this link!

We sometimes get so caught up in examing details, we forget to stand back and look at the big picture.

A journey to hell, is not so bad, as long as it comes with a round trip ticket.....

The realization that the Losties are in hell, seems to have devastated some lost fans, even to the point of denying it. But the real fun and satisfaction of Lost may have just begun. Now we can get serious about the "Journey Home"

capcom said...

Thanks Martys. :-) This one is a picture of Dr.Evil and Mini-me, with Locke's head on the Dr., and Ben's on Mini. Click the pic to get bigger view.

But Ben would probably still worry about who would replace him if he doesn't recover and dies. A true control freak will also want to set up a successor or heir to his evil, especially if Ben is consumed with making sure that the Others continue doing the research that he wants done, even after he's dead. Other than the death option, Locke is merely something that he can manipulate, and has to, because the rest of the Others know that he has a special union with the island, and Ben needs to keep Locke below him in stature. Lostpedia says that Ben knew that Locke would not kill Coop in front of everyone, so then Locke would be knocked down a notch in front of them, and Ben is still seen as Grand Poobah of the Others. Sounds good to me so far. IMHO. :-)

BTW Memphish, you will have to bring back your Oz avi for next week's episode!

Amused2bHere said...

morning, all!

I just got a Wizard of Oz moment: when Ben sees Locke stroll in with Daddy Deadweight, it will be like the Wizard's reaction to Dorothy's presentation of the witch's broomstick. LOL I didn't think you'd actually do it

As for the Book Club, I love Admin's idea of asking TPTB for a suggested top 5. If they don't give us a list, then we could vote for a top 5-10 list, and set a one or two a month schedule for discussion.

memphish said...

Maven, I think Jack keeping the secret that no one is looking for them anymore is the one thing I can conceive of the old Jack keeping from the Losties as a way to keep their morale up. Problem is, if that's all it is, why is he so dadgum rude to Kate about it? She picked Sawyer. You were mature about it back on Falcatraz. Why so childish now?

I think that fact would also be a good thing for Juliet to tell Jack to further earn his trust while still playing both sides to her own advantage. I can't wait to see Jack's reaction to the recording.

memphish said...

To change back to the book club topic for a minute, I forgot to mention I'd also read Slaughterhouse Five this season after FBYE. Is Desmond Billy Pilgrim? If so, he hasn't reached the "so it goes" stage.

martysbaybay said...

Capcom

Nifty avitar. Art imitates "Lost" life

Grand Poobah........LOL

As always your point is well taken.

capcom said...

Right Amused, that is just like Oz! LOL!

Amused2bHere said...

Should we include the Dark Tower series? It's been mentioned a few times recently, and I am intrigued.


Too many choices!

capcom said...

Thanks Martys. :-)

I wish that TPTB would relase another Lost book this summer, but this time be a longer story, with much more meat in the plot, and perhaps tell us a story about all the peripherals of the show. Like Dharma, the Widmores, and anything that could enhance the experience but not give away anything about the show.

Oh well, off to pick up the nephews!

capcom said...

BTW, if anyone wants to learn more about the Black Rock type slave ships, I recommend the movie "Amazing Grace". Very moving.

Codysmom said...

Happy Friday, everybody!!!

I'm so impressed with other people's avatars, I decided to try one that isn't Hurley....

for you Cinco de Mayo pleasure....

Codysmom said...

Amused2bHere said...

I just got a Wizard of Oz moment: when Ben sees Locke stroll in with Daddy Deadweight, it will be like the Wizard's reaction to Dorothy's presentation of the witch's broomstick. LOL I didn't think you'd actually do it

This is too funny (and probably how it will be)

This could be the star of my "that didn't go too well" list!!

Codysmom said...

Seriously, though, I don't think Ben is thinking of Locke as a succesor, he's just worried about his own leader status. We saw Alpert helping Locke by giving him the Sawyer file, so he may be one of the anti-Bens. The fact that Ben obviously wanted the Juliet tape to get back to the Losties is his plan to discredit Juliet, so he must be suspicious of her "commitment", too.

going to check out memphish's doc arzt's link....

Fenris said...

Hi All. Just want to throw in a few opinions on the episode. No big theories right now, but I'll throw some out there at the weekend.

1) Either Jack is really bad at keeping a secret or he's really the smoke monster in disguise. Yeah I think it's safe to assume there is more to his alliance with Juliet then they are officially owning up to, but it wouldn't take a skilled private eye to figure that one out. Lol.

2) Is it my imagination or is Kate acting like a spoiled teenager that has been spurned by her crush of the moment. Lol.

3) Seems everyone was onboard with the Sawyer/Locks Dad theory, so can't say I was shocked when it turned out to be true. Kudos to whomever thought of it first, the possibilities were there a long time ago. The links between people on the island are become more and more intense which is something else that makes me doubt everything is as it seems.

3) I do not believe a word Naomi says. I think Sayid has his suspicions, but Charlie and Hurley are acting real dumb. Des I can forgive because they clearly knew how to tug at his strings in advance. Jin I will also let off as it seems the one language she probably doesn't speak is Korean.

Firstly that "your all dead" line is just preposterous. Secondly she seems overqualified for the role she supposedly has (all those languages?) while at the same time kind of underequiped. Plus of course there was her translated line from the previous episode. Now I did some research and it seems it is likely the Losties would have been declared dead by now, especially if remains of the tail section had been found. Of course that wasn't Naomi's story, but I wouldn't trust her any further then I could throw Hurley.

4) Lockes Dads comment about the smiling paramedic just screams kidnapping all over it. Which suggests the metaphor of a magic box apparently requires human interaction to make it work. Certainly I don't buy the "this is hell" line (how would Dharma fit in?), nor do I buy Purgatory as they have been laughed at so much by TPTB. Sure he may have believed he was in Hell, the way he was treated after arriving on the island and the fact the he knew he deserved to be there would no doubt be enough to convince him.

5) I've been drawn back recently to the black and white rocks that were found on Adam and Eve. I think they are deserving of some further thought about their purpose. It seems entirely possible that Adam and Eve were Bens parents (thanks for that one Ange) and that could put their posessions right at the centre of Losts mystery. Has Jack still got those stones?

6) Also I think my long time theories about them digging up some kind of ancient temple or something like that will come to fruition soon. Bens comment about "a new place, well, a very old place actually" certainly hints at that.

That's all. Happy Friday Everyone.

I totally can't wait until next weeks Dharma goodness episode!

Although warning in advance, if the episodes "flashbacks" are Ben explaining things to Locke then we have to be aware it may all be lies from the start.

Codysmom said...

fenris, do you think Naomi was brought to the island by Desmond via the "magic box"? And I mean that in an I-agree-with-you-about-your-#4-comment kind of way

Sayid'sgirl said...

LOL Oh yeah I like the taco man codysmom.

maven said...

Hey, Fenris: Agree with a lot of your comments (as usual). Especially the fact that Cooper actually believes he has died himself and is in Hell. He believes he is seeing his dead son (believing what the news reports said about Flight 815...which is similar to what Naomi says). The last thing he remembers is being in a car accident and he's been tied up and tortured in a place that is hotter than heaven.

I do kinda of believe Naomi, if only because Cooper confirmed the same Flight 815 story.

BTW: Codysmom...great Taco Man!

Codysmom said...

thanks, sayid'sgirl & maven!!
I'm working on making it more Lost related...

Sayid'sgirl said...

fenris said:
Although warning in advance, if the episodes "flashbacks" are Ben explaining things to Locke then we have to be aware it may all be lies from the start.

I really hope not. That would be a big let down.

Codysmom said...

how's this?

Sayid'sgirl said...

Works for me. :)

Codysmom said...

Sayid'sgirl said...
fenris said:
Although warning in advance, if the episodes "flashbacks" are Ben explaining things to Locke then we have to be aware it may all be lies from the start.

I really hope not. That would be a big let down.


I agree!

Codysmom said...

ok, now I'm really going to check out memphish's doc arzt's link....

memphish said...

Fenris said: 5) I've been drawn back recently to the black and white rocks that were found on Adam and Eve. I think they are deserving of some further thought about their purpose. It seems entirely possible that Adam and Eve were Bens parents (thanks for that one Ange) and that could put their posessions right at the centre of Losts mystery. Has Jack still got those stones?

If he does, it's the only pair he's sporting. Sorry I couldn't resist. What happened to my early Season 3 Jack who'd say things like: Well Ben, at least you won't have to be disappointed for very long.

Great avatar's Codysmom. I liked both of them.

ib4uc said...

fenris said... 4) Lockes Dads comment about the smiling paramedic just screams kidnapping all over it.

I agree with this. He was drugged and when he woke up, he was on the island. Kind of like Juliet, the only difference is that she went on her own. And, yeah, Juliet is still alive (hopefully not for long).

memphish said...

J. Wood is up.

memphish said...

There's more J. Wood in the Washington Post and frankly I didn't make it through the first one yet. I didn't like philosophy in college and I'm not really enjoying it now.

Darkaardvark said...

As for next weeks flashbacks/"flashbacks"- I don't think it'll take the form of Ben explaining things to Locke. Consider the various shots of DHARMA history in the promo. Unless it takes the "switch to visual form after Ben starts talking" conceit, then we're really going to see a DHARMA/Ben flashback.

Everything about next week screams "Episode with answers". I'm surprised that it's coming two episodes BEFORE the finale.

My theory for next week: Ben really did mean it when he said Locke should bring his dad's body. The smoke monster will fly into it and his dad will stand up and do the whole Jacks'-dead-dad and Eko's-brother thing.

I think Juliet was half-lying, they know what it does but they are not the ones who created it and they cannot control it.

Codysmom said...

thanks, memphish (about the avatars). I'm definitely new at this...

thanks also for the J.Wood link

memphish said...

Darkaardvark, I am curious as to why Ben's caravan seems unconcerned with running into Smokey especially with what we've seen with the fence. Any ideas?

Darkaardvark said...

They seem to be traveling on fairly open routes, rather than through thick jungle, where we usually see Smokey. I think it would be reasonable to assume that, if Smokey's coming up out of the ground somewhere, it might have a limited range and the Others know where they can go and where they can't.

Or perhaps Smokey isn't dangerous to them, just the Lostaways. Perhaps because they've been on the island so long, or they know something about Smokey that we don't (which is almost certainly true).

Oh, and FYI, if you don't want to be spoiled, don't look at the cast list for next week. I've been trying to keep from reading any spoilers about this next episode because it seems so awesome, but I was reading over the press release... It doesn't give away a major island secret or anything, but there's a certain theory here that it makes look very interesting. If you're looking for a way to get an interesting insight about next week's episode without accidentally stumbling on a major spoiler, it might be a good way, but it also might be too big for a lot of you, so use your own discretion. Me, I'm going to try reaaal hard to stay away from DarkUFO's spoilers this week.

Twinkle said...

Admin, I'm curious when you said you had heart burn after watching the episode was that from something you ate or the episode? Cuz' if something in the episode made you react like that, it'd make a great SOTL post.

The philosophical question that's predominant in my mind is - Was Sawyer's action justice or revenge?

Also someone asked on the previous thread why Sawyer was mad at the end. I have ideas about that too. What do you think?

Ange said...

memphish: Yesterday someone mentioned the "Out of Africa"ness of the sheer amount of junk Ben had in his tent. I wonder, along with your question about the Smokey worries while traveling; how do they move all of that stuff, worry about Smokey, and do it all in time for next week. Do they have more VW busses stashed and ready to load Ben's dresser and outrun Smokey with?

FYSB said...

Here's a little scoop from Kristin...
Lost will end after 2 more seasons, Lost won't return until January of next year but will have continuous new eps, and it is possibly moving to an earlier hour.
Watch with Kristin
There are no spoilers in her column BUT she hints at something big happening in the last episode (which shouldn't surprise anyone since, well, it's the season finale) but just in case, the hint appears about 2/3 of the way through if you want to avoid it.

memphish said...

If you're avoiding spoilers, don't look at the cover TV Guide this week either. I'd been warned and I looked anyway. I am weak. I've eaten 3 cookies today too.

capcom said...

LMAO Memphish! Didn't Tom also say something to Jack in the shark room or cage, about getting some stones? Snicker. :o)

Great avi Fenris, and nice to hear from you on this ep. I'm up in the air about Naomi, except for a nagging feeling that she was speaking specifically to Patchy when she said that she wasn't alone in Portuguese. Hmmm. And yes, Kate is acting like a whiney mixed up kid, and so is Jack. Blech. Interesting thought about The Box too. I was also thinking something like that today, and imagining that The Box doesn't actually materialize people, but makes the Others like zombie-people that do Its bidding to make things happen, or bring people to the island. Because Ben said Locke brought Coop there (via The Box), but Coop said he was ambushed more or less. So, Box-zombies must brought him to the island! Absurd, of course, I was just letting my mind run free. :o)

Nice avatars Taco Lady! And what exactly was being cut in the first one? The matador's tail? :o)

Hi Twinkle, I was thinking about your question last night. I think that Sawyer had come so far on his own "journey", to use a Locke-ism, that he didn't feel like killing him anymore. It felt kind of like he did it more out of the sheer anger and frustration of the moment, as Cooper was insulting him, his parents, and his note, etc. I got the feeling that if Cooper was sorry and remorseful, that Sawyer would have passed on getting his revenge and walked away if Locke would have let him. Coop was a total a-hole, and I can see myself at least punching him or something as well.

Memphish, if we do start TLBC, and we read books that you have read already, you can be our sort of spirit-guide through the books, heh-heh. And you can make the burnt muffins. :-D

capcom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
capcom said...

Right Ange, the U-haul must have been around the bend behind the trees out of camera shot!

That was me, I'm an "Out of Africa" and Isak Dinesen fan.

memphish said...

Capcom, I'm too much of a Southern hostess perfectionist to ever serve burnt muffins. If I'd been Juliet I'd have wished the muffins from the magic box then put them on my own pretty plate to make it look like I'd slaved all day.

I look forward to reading with everyone this summer, and being the obsessive LOST nerd that I am, I actually have notes about most of the LOST books I've read. I'm pretty sure that won't really surprise any of you.

capcom said...

Thanks for the TV Guide cover warning Memphish, I'm just about to go get groceries!

BTW, anyone going to see Spidey tonight? I guess we'll wait until the crowds die down. Can't wait!

capcom said...

Awesome! OK, my home adress for my muffin order is........haha.

memphish said...

The red file Alpert gave Locke on Sawyer was pretty thin. Locke said it contained info. about Sawyer's parents' deaths, his high school transcripts (didn't Sawyer say he dropped out in 9th grade during the poker game with Jack), and a police report in French which I'd peg to be from the French speaking part of Canada rather than France. Jack's file that Juliet had TOTC in contrast was giant. Did Alpert edit? Why the difference?

capcom said...

Good call Memphish. Perhaps the fact that Jack had actually done constructive and productive things with his life, made his thicker? And Sawyer's was mostly just about, "lived here, disappeared for a few years, lived there, disappeared again, killed some guy in Sydney..."?

And, I was thinking that they maybe only gave Locke a copy of the need-to-know info, and kept the real file for themselves. Just in case he lost it, which he did in the fire.

Ebonflame said...

capcom said:BTW, anyone going to see Spidey tonight? I guess we'll wait until the crowds die down. Can't wait!
Well,
I saw spiderman last night at midnight. it's ok......kinda disappointing. definately didn't live up to they hype.

Codysmom said...

sorry to hear your review of Spiderman.... we're going this weekend..

Capcom said....
Nice avatars Taco Lady! And what exactly was being cut in the first one? The matador's tail? :o)

The pants are being sewn onto him:)

Codysmom said...

btw, capcom, your avatar is the best!!

Twinkle said...

Capcom said:
I got the feeling that if Cooper was sorry and remorseful, that Sawyer would have passed on getting his revenge...

Which leads to the question of how hard it is to forgive someone who isn't remorseful. I'm dealing with that right now.

As for the Ben's black box, has that been hashed to death? Didn't it seem likely that the Other's caused Cooper's crash, loaded him in their ambulance, drugged him, and smuggled him on the island? If they can fake a plane wreck or a bus accident then this wouldn't be beyond their power. So what would the "black box" be? The will of "Jacob?" It actually curdles my blood that Ben kept talking like Locke brought Cooper to the island when in reality the Others did it to gain mastery over Locke.

maven said...

On several sites today there's been info that ABC and the producers have reached an agreement on the end date of Lost and an announcement will be within the next 2 weeks. Most are speculating 2 more seasons. Also, a day and time change is in the works.

Now this is either devastating or wonderful news...depending on how you look at it. Devastating: This great ride will end! Wonderful: Now, with an end date in sight, the producers can map out the rest of this great story at their own pace and they will be able to give us all the answers we want and need. Now, now...we all knew this couldn't go on forever! :(

memphish said...

According to Whitney over at PopCandy there won't be any LOST re-runs this summer. She writes: I contacted ABC about the rerun situation, and here's what a spokeswoman told me: The show won't be repeated on the air, though it will be available on ABC.com. So much for the rumored longer versions of the episodes. I guess we'll never know what happened on the pot farm.

memphish said...

Maven, what I've read says the series will end in 2009 and that Season 4 won't start until 2008. May 15th is supposed to be the official ABC announcement, but maybe they'll move that up with the rumor mill picking up steam. I've heard tell of a time change too, but I haven't heard what day or time.

capcom said...

Ahhh, sewn into the pants Codysmom. Yes he was indeed! :o)

Twinkle, on forgiving the unremorseful, sorry to hear about that. I'm living that out with a very close relative in my life, as well. Not fun. But, the rest is SoTL fodder. :-|

Too bad about Spidey. I hope that I don't feel the same way.

Scary to think what news befalls us in two weeks. I kinda like Wednesday for Lost Night. It works out well with all the other shows that I watch. If ABC puts in it competition with Heroes on Monday, they'd better start firing people. Too bad about no Lost reruns this summer too. I guess they'll go back to Lopez five nights a week again. If only they could rerun the show from the first episode, then newbies could get on board by the time season 4 starts up. And why hasn't the SciFi channel picked up on showing Lost yet, like they do with all other remotely SciFi related shows, including Heroes?! Hmmm.

capcom said...

BTW, thanks for the road signs to all the Lost articles today, Lady Linksalot! :-)

maven said...

FYI: Interesting article about Michelle Rodriquez being on the cover of the lesbian magazine Curve.

Twinkle said...

No reruns?! Do they want people to get into their show or not?

Melissa_Lossa said...

Hey, guys - hope someone's still around! I'm stuck at work on a Friday night!

memphish, you were on fire today! Your comments were cracking me up!

maven said...

Twinkle: I don't know how a new viewer can get into this show if they haven't seen anything up til now. I know, I know there are DVDs, etc., but how many will invest the money and/or time to play catch up? There's always a few that will start once a series has been on for a few seasons, but not enough to make a big difference. The point is to keep the fan base you have! And they better have something up their sleeves to keep us busy until Season 4! LOL

Twinkle said...

I have a friend who just finished season 2 on DVD this week and is looking for a way to watch season 3. I only watch Heroes because they put their back episodes up on the internet and I could catch up.

To me it's the same fight as between the Microsoft model of software - control, control, and charge - and the Open Source model of software - let everybody in on the secrets.

Melissa_Lossa said...

capcom - to answer your question - Sci Fi airs shows like Heroes because they are owned by the same company as NBC. They only show sci-fi shows owned by the same company. Last year, they also showed Threshold or Surface, whichever was the NBC one.

Speaking of Sci Fi, does anyone here watch the show Ghost Hunters? The new season starts Wednesday, June 6 - perfect titming!

capcom said...

No kidding Melissa! I did not know that SciFi was in with NBC. Yeah, I tried to re-catchup with Threshold or Surface, but then what's the use, they aren't going to finish it. :-p One of them I liked, the other...not so much. I liked the one that had the firey things falling out of the sky into the water, during the hurricane.

2costa said...

Fenris i think the magic box might be the computer, and The human intervention is needed to make whatever it spits out happen. Say it analyzes all of Lockes info as well as Sawyer the spits out a paper saying you need to bring Anthony Cooper here or as I mentioned before it uses the smoke to conjure the ultimate role playing psycho-therapy tool ala the holodeck on star trek. Cooper haviing a believable story just fits with Ben always having a good cover story so even the smoke would have to be beleivable in order for the catharsis to really happen. The strange thing about Naomi and Coopers story being the same isnt the fact that they match up, rather that after 40 plus days these two people show up within 2 days of each other spouting it. If Naomi is to beleived then Penny would have had to overlook the decoy underwater 815 to keep looking for desmond. I also had the thought that if I am right that richard is indeed really working against Ben, then maybe richard is responsible for mikhail showing up again, he did try to steal the phone from naomi, maybe that explians why he truly looked pissed when Locke blew up the flame..

Melissa_Lossa said...

The creepy blonde girl from that show is on 24 this season. She's still creepy!

It's so hard to decide what new shows to watch. I'm also afraid I'm going to like one, only to have it canceled. I was all in for Studio 60 this season, and then it got yanked, just when it was starting to get good.

2costa said...

nevermind about the penny thin i forgot desmond wasnt on 815

Melissa_Lossa said...

I think Ben's got quite the dilemma with Locke. All this time, people on the island have been miraculously healed of any ailments and injuries - and then their fearless leader gets cancer. Suddenly, people begin to question Ben's power. Then, another guy shows up, who has been cured, and in a spectacular way. People have to be wondering, "if Ben's so special, how come he's in a wheelchair and Locke's not?"

I think Ben's in a panic that he might lose his hold over everyone, so he sets Locke up with an impossible task that Ben knows he'll never be able to do. That's why he gathers everyone around when he's telling Locke to kill Cooper, and that's why he makes the big proclamation that Locke is not who they thought he was. He's trying to discredit him.

People have speculated that Locke might start losing his ability to walk again because of his actions - but I wonder if it will be BEN who's back in the wheelchair. Ben's strength returned as he put Locke in his place, but now that Locke has the upper hand, that might change.

memphish said...

Twinkle, Watching the episodes on line is good, but it looks like they only have the last 4 episodes on line currently. I don't know if they'll put them all up there this summer or not. I'd guess the DVDs will be out well before Season 4 launches, but probably not until the end of summer to judge by past release dates and the Aug. 28 release date of the Heroes DVDs.

scoutpost said...

Afternoon, er uh evening everybody-

melissa_lossa: I think you make a very good point about Ben's motives.

I can't believe they are going to take a 7 month break from the show and not give us anything during that break! I mean throw us a bone or something- it doesn't have to be a full out ARG, but what happened to the mobisode idea? Oh well, at least we have the idea of the book club that should keep us going and provide some interesting discussion- but boy you would think a lot more people would give up on the show in that long period of time. I guess they figure if it works for 24, it'll work for them.

memphish said...

Speaking of the Book Club, I bought Joseph Campbell's Hero With a Thousand Faces and A Wrinkle in Time tonight. I read WIT when I was a kid and I bought it tonight thinking I'd read it to my son this summer. I'm a book junkie the way some women are shoe junkies.

scoutpost said...

RE: Spidey 3- I've heard mixed reviews from critics (but who really listens to them anyway?) The main complaint I heard was that it was more dependent on the CGI than on plot, and that the plot was complicated/too much going on type thing. Still, none of the critics have said to stay away.... Personally, I can't wait.

Sayid'sgirl said...

capcom
The show with the firey things falling into the water was Invasion and really liked it too. It was just getting good and they (ABC) canceled it after one season.
I watched a few episodes of Threshold and like the concept but could do without the blood and gore so I quit watching it. Suface was interesting but I think it was too tame for most. I didn't expect it to last. I started watching Heroes but when they started carving open heads I quit. It's a good story like Threshold but again to much gore for me. I'm a wimp. I read the recaps and my sister fills me in on the details.
Boy I sure did go off topic didn't I? To get back on topic I think I read or heard somewhere that all the Lost episodes would be on line this summer but I could be wrong.

capcom said...

Memphish, I came thisclose to buying Campbell's book at a used bookstore last week! :-)

I haven't checked Ebert's review yet Scoutpost, he and I **usually** feel the same about movies. I don't like too much CGI! But my nephews didn't like #2 so much, because they thought that it was too mushy with Spidey and MJ.

Ange said...

memphish- I get giddy in Barnes and Noble...it is an issue. I have even been known to hug a book, seriously. Also I would love to hear what you think of WIT. I am curious to see what you think of it through adult eyes. I know I had a whole different view of it. I try to get my students to read that all the time, but they tell me they, "Don't get it."

capcom said...

It's not too OT Sayidsgirl, if we're still talking SciFi. :o)

Right, Invasion, and it had more plot than violence so it was more interesting than the other two that started at the same time.

capcom said...

LOL! I just checked the HansoAir site and there was an update this year, on Feb.7. Just a notice saying that the lawsuit has been settled, blah, blah.

LostIt said...

Capcom, yes The Other was made into a movie but I found the movie hard to follow - even after reading the book. The book was much better because it gave more background and filled in the blanks that were hard to convey in a movie.

twinkle, I think Sawyer was angry at himself for giving in to his rage and being manipulated into killing a man - even if he deserved it. Sawyer didn't like who he had become.

memphish said...

So Ben told Locke: When people join us here on this island, they need to make a gesture of free will...of commitment. That's why you're gonna have to kill your father. What do you think Juliet's gesture of free will was? Could it be what she's up to with the LOSTies? I guess not since she hates Ben, but I wish it was since I hate her.

LostIt said...

I had heard that NBC had all the Heroes episodes online, but they only had the first and the last 4. There's a whole lot of them in the middle that I can't see. My only hope of getting caught up is to read the recaps. That's OK but not quite the same.

capcom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
capcom said...

Maybe Juliet's gesture of free will was drinking The KoolAde! You wouldn't get me drinking some mysterious drink that a stranger gave me! Well, at least not since I was about 35 years old. :-

LostIt said...

Someone (I forget who) asked what Juliet had to do to show her commitment. After reading Kristen's comments about "the brig", the thought occurred to me that if Cooper was in an "accident" and then brought to the island, maybe Juliet's ex-husband was as well (thought surviving being hit by that bus is definitely a stretch) and she had to eliminate him just as Locke was require to eliminate Cooper.

LostIt said...

Sorry, memphish, it was you who asked about Juliet's act of coimmitment. And it was only a few posts up. That's what happens when I post without refreshing.

Capcom, good call on the koolaid. I think that would qualify as an act of free will - showing her commitement.

Amused2bHere said...

'Evening, all!

I am going to see Spidey3 tomorrow night. I'll let ya know what I think...My 18yr old son already saw it and said there was not enough action for an action movie, and that the villians were sympathetic, Spidey's own demons were more vicious. Too much drama. His assessment: chick flick.

But he went to see it twice. Anyway. Go figure.

luckyguylikeme said...

Hello everyone!

For starters, Kristin posted an update on her blog, and said that her first statement didn't have all the facts. I'll give it to you straight from her.

"According to these sources, ABC will be making an announcement declaring an end date for Lost very soon. However, the exact number of remaining episodes and seasons is still muddy—and might not be exactly two seasons."

Secondly, I saw the midnight showing of Spiderman as well, and I have mixed feelings about it. My initial reaction was "Wow, that was amazing!" but after that, I realized how like 98% of everything Spidey was CGI, even scenes of him just standing there. Also, there were a few random scenes, that didn't really play into the plot at all. Once you see it, you'll know what I mean. Finally, my favorite part about it was that there were many funny parts that had me and the rest of the theatre laughing pretty hard. My overall grade: B

And finally, for my out-there theory after seeing this episode, and playing off of what fenris said about Jack being the monster. What if the big "secret" that Jack has been holding this whole time is that he's not really Jack? During the last scene of the finale, which I'm assuming will be the whole showdown between the Losties and The Others, The Others reveal a bound and gagged Jack, looking across the beach or whatever at Monster-Jack, standing with the Losties? I know I for one would definitely be talking about that for awhile.

memphish said...

Hey luckyguylikeme I've been trying since Thursday morning to fashion a case for the Jack on the beach not being Jack, but I can't get it to work.

My first problem is Juliet and Ben going over the "plan" again. In referring to Claire's implant Ben says: Tell Jack that you can save her. He trusts you. This implies strongly it's the real Jack (unless Ben is double crossing Juliet again - head spins).

Then the scene where Jack checks on Sun in the garden I think is vintage Jack at his best. He finds a time when they won't be overheard and asks questions based on the vague information Juliet gave him and Kate when explaining the Claire situation. We certainly have never seen Jack revealing Sun's pregnancy to Juliet. Juliet seems surprised to learn of it when Sun confronts her, but then Juliet is a master of lying.

And there's the scene at the end of OOU where Juliet asks Jack why he doesn't need answers. Again it would have to be a double double cross by Ben for this not to be Jack, not that I would put it past him.

But I agree that this Jack we've seen back at the beach is overly demanding that the LOSTies trust him, he's rude, awkward, overly protective of Juliet. We haven't seen him actually use any doctoring skills. Is it possible that Candace from Heroes is on the Island and is shape-shifting? I hope so because I don't like this Jack.

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