Get fired up about getting back to the beloved beach! Tonight, a suspicious and determined Hurley enlists Charlie to help him wrangle the truth out of Desmond, who has been acting strangely ever since the implosion of the hatch.
Wednesday, February 14, 2007
FLASHES BEFORE YOUR EYES - SEASON 3, EPISODE 8
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433 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 433 Newer› Newest»CattyGirl said... Dennis, I thought you might get a kick out of this. When I was looking at the past acting of Nestor Carbonell (Dr. Alpert) I see he did an episode for Melrose Place. The name of the episode... Lost & Found!
That's awesome!
fysb,
I remember reading and enjoying that book a while back. It helped me better understand the general principles behind quanutm mechanics and relatively theory, but I still don't feel like I have any grasp at all on string theory. Of course a lot of theoretical physicists don't have a grasp on string theory, either, and I'm just a transportation engineer :)
The Elegant Universe was the one made into the PBS series, I think. I like those kinds of shows.
ange: I said something about maybe Desmond being taken to room 23 meaning also around the time of Kelvin. That maybe he had been brainwashed into believing a different past and now maybe he's remembering his real past and they're overlapping. I don't know maybe that's to much but I believe he did more than sat and pushed a button. After all he finally quit believing Kelvin and followed him out of the hatch.
Hey all...LONG time lurker, first (well, third) time poster. Hey Dennis - I'm in good ol' Lexington, too :)
DiggityDirge said...
Isn't Admiral McKutcheon a character from 20,000 leagues under the sea, and do you have any thoughts on that?
Something that caught my eye on Lostpedia...
The Admiral MacCutcheon that Charles Widmore mentions to Desmond was a character from a remake film of the classic, 20000 Leagues Under the Sea (by Jules Verne). Adewale Akkinuoye-Agbaje (Mr. Eko) played this character in a remake of that film.
2Costa said...
If desmonds flashback was real why was charlie homeless and playing an oasis song. Around this time charlie would have been in a successful driveshaft and at the very least he would have played one of his own hit songs, so it seems that it was an alternate past
I don't know about the alternate past stuff...all this time-travel-loop-folding stuff hurts my head real bad...BUT, I was thinking the same thing! Even if Dez couldn't remember where he knew Charlie from (the island) you would think that he would at least recognize him from Driveshaft, and you wouldn't think Charlie would be playing out of his guitar case asking for money!
cattygirl... I'm with you on this one. I don't know what to think of this episode either. I'm leaning more towards the "it's was just a dream/all in his head" because it's more realistic. But I gotta say, I loved it!
Hey RubyGreenEyes!
Did you go to the Apollo bar giveaway last summer at Jacobsen Park?
You guys are all making such good points and arguments for the is it in his head or is it sci-fi time travel.
Like I previously said, I'm leaning towards in his head as a rationalization for the last 3 years of pushing that button. The time travel thing would definitely take the show in a completely different direction, wouldn't it? I think TPTB did say this episode would either keep you or send you reeling away and giving up.
But I'm really open for anything on this show...I'm going with the flow and will wait to see where this is going either way.
Great to see everyone coming out of the internet woodwork.
RubyGreenEyes,
I think that in some of the earlier postings, it was deduced that Desmond's flashes were set some time around 1997. Had Driveshaft been formed by that time? I can't remember the timeline for Charlie's flashbacks.
dedjezter said:
It is very hard to change things in your dreams unless you are very tuned into your own subcon, which is impossible... that is why it is your subcon.
Maybe I'm missunderstanding you but you don't change things in your dreams while you're dreaming? I do all the time. If I dream something and I don't like the way it is unfolding I go back to that point and dream it differently sometimes several times till I get the outcome that satisfies me. Or maybe this isn't what you're meaning but if it is maybe I belong in Hurley's psychic ward :-)
Blueheron...I can't remember either. And after I posted that, I realized it might have been far before Driveshaft was formed. But if Desmond's 'rewind' was indeed in/around 1997, and the plane crashed in 2001...who knows, timelines screw me up!
Dennis...I gave op on TLE in mid-June because I had to go away for 4 days for work and didn't have internet, and I just got too behind without time to catch up. I was WAY into it early on though. Didn't even know they did an Apollo Drop at the park...I think it was right around the time that I stopped following along for 6 of my 8 hours at work a day!
Something has been tickling my brain. Back in Pilot 2, Danielle's distress message said that Brennan took the key (or keys.) Could this be the same key Kelvin, then Desmond had, that is, the fail safe key? Wasn't there an incident that precipitated the need for a fail safe key? When was that? (I'm not sure where I'm going with this. Just trying to make connections.)
Anyone else having problems with blogger? It's giving me fits!
I think Desmond keeps getting caught in a series of time loops- and what we saw in the episode was him jumping from one loop to another by finally exercising his free will over the fate he'd accepted up to that point.
Loop 1
Over and over Desmond lived the loop between waking up after falling in his apartment, meeting with Mr. Widmore, deciding not to marry her, joining the military, joining the yacht race, ending up on the island, meeting the Losties and turning the key.
This loop went on for who knows how many repetitions- until he finally decided he was going to change things and ask Penny to marry him.
Transition from Loop 1 to Loop 2:
This transition starts when Desmond meets the weirdo-woman in the ring store. I think on all other occasions of the loop, Desmond almost buys the ring and then decides not to. By trying to actually buy the ring he "breaks" the loop. Maybe this has happened before- the fact the woman is there to push him back on his familiar track seems to indicate it has. But from this point onward- we know Desmond isn't going to just keep spinning his wheels in the rut he's created for himself.
After meeting the woman however, Desmond has fooled himself into thinking he's still stuck. Then, when he is in the bar the second time and he sees his soccer precognition coming true- he decides he can in fact change things. His last words before the altercation starts are exactly that- "There's still time for me to change things" Then he gets whacked in the head and his consciousness skips out of Loop 1 and pops into Loop 2.
Loop 2
Loop 2 starts with Desmond post hatch explosion and goes to some as yet revealed point in the future- probably Charlie's death. In Loop 2 new things are in the works that have never happened before (Or at least haven't happened outside of what I think is now a second loop). Penny actually finding Desmond may be part of this loop- or maybe she won't be able to actually find him again until he successfully negotiates his way through Loop 2 in the same way he couldn’t experience Loop 2 until he did Loop 1 correctly.
Why Desmond is seeing the future:
Loop 2 has probably happened to Desmond a few times and so he's saved Charlie before several times in the same way and he gets flashes of it just like he got flashes of the future when he was in Loop 1. Under this theory, every time Charlie dies- Desmond hops back to the part where he's naked next to the hatch and tries again.
But since the point of this whole plot line is to illustrate the fate vs. free will argument. I figure Desmond is going to have to keep pulling Charlie's butt out of the fire until he can click into a new Loop 3- or stop the time looping entirely.
Such an interesting episode. Just a few points to cover - I think there's a decent possibility of either theory about Desmond's trip (self-delusional or real time travel), but I'm leaning toward real time travel. There are some really interesting things that go along with the real time travel angle, because if he really did go back, then he changed a few things that could end up being important. The vital thing that he couldn't change, that whatever that old lady was wouldn't let him change, was that he broke up with Penny and went to the island. But in the process, he saved the bartender from getting whacked, and had the talk with the physicist friend, both of which could lead to big changes. I think the writers might be hinting at this with the shot of him throwing the ring into the river (also didn't happen the first time) and showing the ripples coming out from it. Every little thing he did when he went back will have ripples that change history. Maybe the bartender would have died. Maybe when his friend realizes that Desmond was right about the miracle football comeback, he should think more about the possibilities of time travel. I think we'll see his physicist friend again. Anyway, post getting long, so I'll stop but GREAT episode - my favorite by far from season 3.
The more I think about this, the more I have to go with the all-in-his-head scenario.
I can't accept that the jewelry lady (Ms. Hawking) is a real person with extraordinary knowledge about space/time and what people's destinies are.
I also can't accept that getting hit by a cricket bat would knock someone around in time.
And, I wonder why Charlie wouldn't recognize Desmond (on the island) like Jack did, if their confrontation in Britain really happened.
But if later we see Penny finding Desmond's ring, or talking with his physics friend about a strange island, I guess I'll have to change my mind.
Hey for you guys who know how to check these things (NOT me)is this a real site or is it a fan site based on Charlie's middle name? I find it funny their new release is Save the Day
www.hieronymus.co.uk
Hey for you guys who know how to check these things (NOT me)is this a real site or is it a fan site based on Charlie's middle name? I find it funny their new release is Save the Day
www.hieronymus.co.uk
I'm no expert, but that looks like a legit site
Lost / Steven King Connection: JJ Abrams to direct The Dark Tower series...?
RE: www.hieronymus.co.uk
This looks like a real band that is NOT Lost releated (been around since 2000), but I'm sure they will enjoy a nice bump from this :)
Kirsten:
Yeah that's what I thought too, but you never know these days fan sites pop up so quickly. And like I said I can't tell a fake from a real one wouldn't know how to start.After looking at more closely they have links to itunes and amazon etc. Just a coiencidence I guess.
In reference to the ads seen in the soccer game, I found this in wikipedia for Kronos. I read through the posts and didn't see anyone else mention this.
KRONOS was an operating system with time-sharing capabilities, written by the Control Data Corporation in the 1970s. KRONOS ran on the 60-bit CDC 6000 series mainframe computers and their successors. CDC replaced KRONOS with the NOS operating system in the late 1970s.
maybe Kronos supplied all the computers for the hatch??
Sayidsgirl, I change things in my dreams sometimes too! Once in a while I'll say to myself in my dream, that it's just a dream and I can a certain thing doesn't have to happen. And other times when I'm dreaming I have no clue.
Blue, I would also wonder why Charlie doesn't recognize Dez on the island if they spoke before, however brief.
About cricket bats to the head and time ripples (re: iancross), maybe each time Dez changes events he pops back into some timeloop freefloating, or back to whatever the present is.
Right Experimental, I got a weird vibe from when Hurley said that as well.
Speaking of homework, I wonder where Dr. Spongebob is?
Heh Ded (from way up in the posts) maybe Sawyer kept that pack of cigs for bartering power? Isn't that why he kept a lot of stash, so he'd have the power over anyone who needed what he had?
Thanks for the X-Files crossover article Bookpolice, I guess that Kelley got the networks back in spades.
Dejavu....is not new
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?post_id=2160
One more post and I'm gone...
I saw ratings posted somewhere and it looks like LOST had it's worst ratings for a new episode, ever :(
Of course, it was Valentine's Day.
And I'll leave with a question: Does anyone have a definitive list of all the billboards that appeared in the soccer (football) matches?
blueheron13 said... I saw ratings posted somewhere and it looks like LOST had it's worst ratings for a new episode, ever :(
I don't think that's quite fair considering the new time slot, but ABC dominated the 18-49 age range. The situation depends on who you talk to... According to ABC:
Self-starter Lost posted even bigger increases from its lead-in on its second week in Wednesdays 10 oclock hour, surging by 7.8 million viewers (12.8 million vs. 5.0 million) and by 167% in Adults 18-49 (5.6/14 vs. 2.1/5). Lost moved ABC up to make it a strong No. 1 at 10:00 p.m., beating CBS time period veteran C.S.I.: NY by wide margins in each of the adult demographics: AD18-34 +61% (5.0/15 vs. 3.1/9), AD18-49 +27% (5.6/14 vs. 4.4/11) and AD25-54 +11% (6.1/15 vs. 5.5/13). ABCs younger skewing drama also led the hour by 65% among Teens 12-17 over its nearest competition (2.8/10 vs. 1.7/6 CBS).
For the second week in a row, ABCs Lost stood as Wednesdays No. 1 scripted program in the key Adult 18-49 demographic.
BTW, I think the ratings will pick up after word of mouth get out on this episode.
Hey everybody. Just finished reading everything. don't think I can offer much on the great debate. I can't decide which side to go with- dream or time travel. Too much info on both sides, I can see it go either way in the big picture- at least for now. The bottom line is...LOST is cookin' again, and I am so excited about the rest of the season.
FYSB- FWIW- I'm a Brian Greene fan, too and I also enjoyed the shirt tearing and running naked that Desmond did last night! LOL
I originally posted this on the lost community Message Board
Ok so I've said this before and now I must restructure my theory, but it could still hold true. Desmond has lived several lifetimes as far as we know. He met Jack in one of his lifetimes after he had been to the island. He may not really remember all of the things that happened to him, but he remembers some things (I hate to say this but, he may try to change things like in "Daybreak" or "Groundhog Day"). Although Desmond could not always see the future he has for many lifetimes and did know that Jack saved his future wife's life.
Now I think that Desmond is responsible for bringing everyone to the island. I don't believe that this was his plan but it is a result of coming in contact with him. This may be the 108th (just a random number that I picked out of a hat) incarnation of Desmond on the island. Each time he comes back, someone else that he came in contact with ends up on the island. Could this be why we didn't see Paulo and Nikki before the hatch imploded. The Losties don't notice the difference because it is the correct timeline for them. Will someone notice the change this time? Desmond did cause the Crash of Oceanic 815 we know that he had contact with Libby, Jack, and Charlie "before". I know that other characters are connected in the "past" but in this theory it is because of Desmond. Maybe at first there was just Kelvin, then Rousseau or something like that.
Let me know what you think about my crackpot theory. I saw a few similar to mine here, but none that said Desmond "brought" everyone to the island.
ripper - what is up?
So, let me get this straight, you are not subscribing to the time travel or dream theory, but the re-incarnation theory, right? Desmond brought all the losties to the island? Hmmmm, I believe that Desmond is a central character in Lost, but I'm trying to wrap my brain around your theory.
Personally I'm subscribing to the time travel theory, first of all, it is just so cool to think that it could be possible. The dream theory is way too worn out. Damon and Carlton are giving way too many hints that it is about time travel, the anagram lost time, the book sawyer was reading, "A Wrinkle in Time", the book Aldo was reading, "A Brief History of Time". So, I am subscribing to the time travel theory. Until proven otherwise, I am sticking to it.
Just to throw something new into the mix. How bout a brainwashing theory? Desmond was brainwashed from the time he landed on the island. Kelvin told him he was saving the world by pushing the button and that it was dangerous outside the hatch. The woman in the jewelery store is the control to keep Desmond on track with the brainwashing when he strays from the conditioning. To make him start to doubt himself. Like using a trigger with a brainwashed victim to get them to do what they have been conditioned to do. Has Charlie ever really been in danger or has Desmond been programed to believe that he is and needs to save him from dying. I don't know for what reason he'd be brainwashed but I'm pretty sure Karl was being brainwashed for some purpose. Anyway I may be way off. Just something else to consider.
Hee Hee,
Ruby Slippers
Don't make me drop a house on you Des.
Hee Hee
OK, finally caught up. Yow! Some heavy discussing going on in here, and some of that a bit heated. Let's all take a cleansing breath...ah, release...
I love the way Lost references so many other films and books, from science fiction to mythology, religion and philosophy. And we each see in it that which we've experienced, so that it has become a mirror, highlighting for us what we already know. I think that's why it resonates with us.
That said, let me add my bit:
:::WARNING:::: LONG post ahead.
1. I agree, the woman from next week may be a younger version of the Ms Hawking from the ring store. Maybe.
2. Time travel is not such a hokey device for me. We could just take Des' word for it that when the fail-safe key was turned he "leapt" backwards into his life, became aware of his time-displacement, and was pulled back to the present from a backlash of sorts (think of it like being snapped out of your time but still attached by a rubber band, then when a limit has been reached you are pulled back by this band). He might have some residual effects from being pulled back, like a pendulum swings in both directions (past and present)before settling in the middle (present). That;s why the "flashes" don't stop. Quantum Leap, anyone? That would explain the "swiss-cheese effect" on his memory.
3. Ring seller chick, Ms. Hawking. How did she know all the different ways Mr Red Shoes would die? Is she living her own loop and has tried to save him numerous times? That reminds me of HGWell's Time Machine (movie, 2002). The hero travels backwards one day over and over trying to save his lady but only to find that each time he saves her she dies a different death. He finally realizes that he cannot change the fact that she dies, only the manner in which it happens. I hope it isn't the case with Charlie, and I think Desmond is going to test this theory.
4. My last point: if Driveshaft was already formed when Des ran into Charlie, I'm not sure Des would have recognized Charlie anyway. Wasn't Driveshaft a one-hit-wonder? "You all everybody" was their only real claim to fame, if I remember correctly. Why would Des recoginze the bass player from a one-hit-band? I know I wouldn't. But then I have trouble remembering breakfast...
I guess it is safe to say that we are going to have some lively discussions in here. In the words of Woody (toy story) let's all ""play nice!"
Ange said...
"...I have been trying to work somthing through all morning. From one of the many Lost boards I look at there were some stills from the previews for next week and the woman who was selling the ring (Do Not Click If You Don't Want to See Preview Stills). I am now really going with the fact that Desmond had a dream/flashback, and was inserting things from the island into that. If that is true, then perhaps the ring woman IS someone that Desmond has see. One of the Others, that we have NOT seen yet."
Pardon me if I've missed something, but I'm getting the impression that some of you think that the Ring Lady and the lady in next week's preview are ONE AND THE SAME?
NOT SO! The Ring Lady is Fionnula Flanagan (http://tinyurl.com/3yq5t8).
The lady in next week's episode is Diana Scarwid (http://tinyurl.com/3anmvf).
I chose these two picture links so that you can see how with the right makeup, they can resemble each other. I only know that these are two different women because I've been watching their movies for years. Diana Scarwid was the adopted daughter in "Mommie Dearest", and Fionnula Flanagan was super-creepy in "The Others."
I'm really, really enjoying all of your ponderings and theories. You guys are the best!!
oh, ugh. I meant "past and future" not "past and present"
next time I break it up into a few shorter posts, sorry everyone!
Hey! I just looked up Fionnula Flanagan in the imdb.com because I knew she looked familiar, and not from "The Others". She was a vulcan ambassador on Enterprise!
I knew she looked familiar.
Yup, amused2bhere! That's her! She was also in "Waking Ned Devine", one of my favorite movies! I hear that she's quite famous "across the pond".
great theory, audiopimp Makes a lot of sense too.
and the "why we don't use drugs" comment is cool. I thought the same thing!
Sayid'sGirl and I guess Capcom,
You do not belong in a Psych ward... lol
I have an explanation for you on the changing dreams thing straight from my Psych prof.
The average dream is only 8 seconds long and yes I realize that this is a lost number... The most common explanation of what you reffered to, a do-over is actually the result of multple dreams. The dream ends and a new one begins with your mind trying out new methods of getting the desired outcome. So factor 8 seconds a dream is 7.5 dreams a minute, 420 dreams an hour. Rem sleep usually last aprox. 3.25 hors and this happens twice for a total of 6.5 hours of dream inducing Rem sleep. The out come is 2,730 dreams. Your mind picks them at random and you only get about 300 in your visible (access) memory. Now when you wake up you are basically hitting the clear button and if you are lucky you will remember1 - 3. You could in this case remember all of 1, bits of one or jumbled bits of all of them. This is one of the reasons that some dreams make no sense to us and sometimes less sense to others. SInce there is also the factor of different symbols meaning different things to different people. For instance a Polar Bear to me might mean Soft, Cuddely, and Good, while to you it might mean Gahdless Killing Machine... If you have the same dream multiple times there is a better chance of you remembering that dream and having bits of all of them, you might see this as having control...
His words not mine.
Capcom,
The thing with Dez is basicay what I was trying to say earlier. It isn't the Cricket bat to Dez's skull that triggers the event to end, but the fact that the bat does not connect with the Bartenders dome piece that effects the course correction.
Also on the Sawyer thing \, I was thinking that myself after I wrote it. I also thought that maybe there had been some in the Dharma food drop and he just had them because he used to be a smoker and still feels the itch... It a doozy. A smoke for when the Fit hits the Shan is a good idea for a quitter... Sorry thinking like a smoker here.
thinbluemime,
I had that same thought about the Dejavu dance ( as you called it) but never thought of it as a design aspect but a mear coinsidence... Yea yeah I know never mistake coin......
On a side note has anyone thought of this since we have all been so focused on Dez. We have pondered the idea that everything that happened in "Not in Portland" was indeed orchistrated by Ben and nothing was ever out of his control. If this is true and considering the brainwashing video...
What if Karl is just a plant and has a mission to carry out...
Duhn, duhn, duhn
Que spooky music... lol
Jeez, I didn't know I was being paged! (no pun intended)
Actually, one of the most intriguing tidbits I can offer on the McCutcheon tip is one that was already mentioned briefly by rubygreeneyes: Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje plays a character in the 1997 movie version of 20,000 LUtS.
More interestingly is this, from M&C DVD Review:
Pierre [Arronax (Patrick Dempsey)] is hired by the Cunard line to assist in an expedition on the warship Abraham Lincoln to pursue the monster. During the attack on the monster Pierre realizes that his theories are wrong and the monster is manmade. However, he is thrown overboard with two of his crewmates, Ned Land (Bryan Brown) and Cabe Attucks (Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje), a newly freed slave. The Abraham Lincoln is crippled in the attack and limps back to port and the three men find themselves aboard the attacking ship.
The ship is the submarine Nautilus and commanded by the mysterious Captain Nemo (Michael Caine). However, Admiral McCutcheon (Peter McCauley) of the Abraham Lincoln swears revenge on the mysterious craft that crippled his ship and eventually enlists the elder Arronax. Meanwhile our “stowaways” are exposed to the wonders of the deep and the technologically advanced Nautilus. Pierre even discovers that Nemo is hiding his daughter (Mia Sara, token love interest for Pierre) aboard, but what is Nemo’s ultimate use of the Nautilus?
It's too damn late for me to start breaking this down, but there are definitely parallels. Not the least of which are the manmade monster and a romance hindered by a mysterious father.
Lastly, I don't think TPTB would give us a sci-fi red herring this far into the series. They toyed with death, abduction, purgatory, and yes DREAMS already. This is the real deal my friends. Desmond is not experiencing time as you and I do. It's not just a cricket mallet to the temple.
Will post more later (stupid work filters don't let me visit from the office!)
I cant help but notice constantGreek Mythological refernces.
Apollo
Kronos.
Hieronymus?
Just to pull apart the word Mittelos. in Greek the word Telos means the end.
Also...
on the hidden map of the blast door theres references to Cerberus
Also....
the Hydra is also in greek mythology okay i got this of Lostpedia
Greek
Pandora: A John William Waterhouse painting of the classical Greek myth, Pandora's box, resembling the Hatch
Pandora: A John William Waterhouse painting of the classical Greek myth, Pandora's box, resembling the Hatch
anyways i was wonderinf if anyone has any opinions on this
* The Apollo Candy Bar. Apollo was the Greek god of the sun, archery, medicine and music.
* The hatch has been referenced by the writers as a metaphor for Pandora's Box
* The name Cerberus is found on the Blast Door map. It may be the name for the Security System. Cerberus was the name of the three-headed dog that guarded the entrance to the Greek underworld.
* Penelope's name and relationship to seafaring hero Desmond are likely references to Homer's epic, the Odyssey.
* Persephone is the name both af a character in the Lost Experience and of the Greek Queen of the underworld.
* The Helios Foundation is a location in the book Bad Twin. Helios was one of the Titans, the gods that preceded the Olympians. Specifically he was the god of the sun, the precursor to Apollo.
* The Hydra was another Monster that Hercules battled in his 12 Labors, and like Cerberus, was another offspring of Typhon & Echidna.
* The statue could be a reference to classical Greek sculpture.
* The Staff symbol is a Caduceus, Hermes' staff (often confused with the Rod of Asclepius).
* Kronos is a fictional company shown in an Easter Egg as an ad in the TV soccer game Desmond is watching. Kronos is a titan, generally regarded as the god of time. ("Flashes Before Your Eyes")
How Much Is That Doggie In the Window?
http://bp1.blogger.com/_J_dU7CHa5Rc/RdWd8XshJPI/AAAAAAAAAIM/R5ti11h4hIc/s1600-h/Image2.jpg
While I do not have a personal screen cap this clear, my caps do show the same OBJECT, view partially obstructed by the limousine parked behind Charlie.
Zoom, Zoom, Boom....
Thinbluemime...forgive the pun, but I'm lost! What object are you referring to - the big blue tank-looking thing in the window?
rubygreeneyes, yes, the object in the window
Maven said: way uo there somewhere...
and he spent 3 years of his life pushing a button like a zombie.
Zombies do not have the capacity to push a sequence of numbers into a computer, they can only eat brains!
LOL
Nice time travel, dreams debate!! I am not sure yet on either and will wait to pass judgment.
Good Morning Loco, what is up?
I have come across a really good article that I found in one of my local newspaper's blogs:
Lost time is never found again ... or is it?
It's kind of long, but worth the read. Does a great job of summarizing and adding some additional insight to "Flashes Before Your Eyes".
Enjoy and happy Friday to ya.
Maybe there is a cross over between Jericho/24/Heros ETC. I think that sometimes others writers give kudos to their peers...I don't think there is more to it than that...but I wish I was wrong....
I'm off for a few days, see you all next Wed.
"See ya' in another life"
TBM- what the heck is that doggie in the window?! Are you thinking time machine? or have I missed the message all together? Interesting nonetheless.
Thrasher- have a nice trip! I'll be leaving on a jet plane this weekend and won't be back for a week, but hopefully will have some computer access to check in now and then.
scoutpost, I can not tell what the object is. It appears to long to be an air craft engine. It doesnt totally look like a nuclear missle.
It seems out of place in a display window.
Is it a prop for a store window dressing? Is it a clue by TPTB?
I hope someone can ID this puppy :)
thinblue,
I have no idea what that thing is, but the two people standing next to it appear to be wearing GYM type clothes. Maybe the are in a gym and it is some wierd kind of training equipment... My best guess anyway.
Thinblue: Maybe it's a tanning bed! Really, have no idea what it is...or what it could mean...good catch!
And Thrasher (even though I know you're gone): I just meant "zombie" in the connotation that he just keeps doing the same thing over and over again...almost like in a trance.
'Morning All!
Awesome additions to yesterday's discussions, indeed.
Overnight I have come to the conclusion that Mrs. Ring Lady is actually Smokey in the form of a human, guiding Dezzy through his vision quest, much like Boone in Locke's sweaty quest. OK, STOP TYPING!! I'm just kidding, heh-heh. :-D
Good thinking Ded about the cigs, for sure, some ex-smokers do keep some around for those special moments. :o)
Re: the doggie, I was thinking that too (after seeing the caps)...why would there be a big turbine engine in a gym? Weird. Or maybe it's a GIANT beer keg? But it may not even have any significance (though I hope it does), it just kind of looks like there's a building over there with people in it who are gawking at TPTB doing some filming on the corner of the street, like they do in NY. If they can get a shot with a minimal amount of equipment, they don't always block the street off for filming, I've seen that done there. Just guessin'.
Re: Telos meaing the end......NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not yet! TPTB are going to get us back somehow for complaining so much by ending Lost quickly, I just know it.
Hold on a minute, TLC!!!
Bad prop management, or alternate timelines? YOU be the judge!!
Orientation (S2, no.3)
AND
Flashes Before your Eyes (S3, no. 8)
Was Desmond ever even supposed to meet Penny?
I was thinking that also, Engineer....different shirt, different lady.......?
I have no opinion or conclusion as to which it might be as yet.
Did TPTB explain why the two different actresses? I vaguely recall some talk about that after the first ep with Penny.
And by different shirt, I meant that in this ep, he was wearing a stretchy polo type collared shirt, and in the S-2 photo his shirt looks more like an ironed and creased stiff cotton shirt. Look here to compare with the S-2 shirt that Engineer posted:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1250&pos=647
And in this cap from Wednesday, it looks like there is some big red smudgy thing in front of Dez's shirt:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1250&pos=742
Although in this photo, he is again wearing the original creased cotton shirt.
What the hay????
Great thoughts Designer! It makes sense that the DI could be like the so-called Illuminati group, for example, being everywhere, all over the globe and in past and present, to assure that "their" choice of future is the one that happens. They would definitely have people placed globally for guiding humanity towards their ultimate goal, within the design of their "noble" plan.
How did Dez save Charlie by crashing the plane? By having him on the island and near Locke who got him off his habit? And do you think that it was planned taht Charlie was there to help Claire?
I'm thinking that Desmondo's shirt is pretty much the same in all the photos, as well as in the "real life" shot (when the photo was taken).
I'm shocked that the "girlfriend" in the two versions isn't wearing the same shirt -- the one from "Orientation" is white!
Never mind whether the same "model" posed for both photos in the ABC studios. Are Damon and Carleton trying to tell us something by not even matching up the clothes?
Or maybe it's an OOPS. Like the inconsistent date-of-birth on Locke's paperwork:
Further Instructions.
We do have a habit of overanalyzing.
Hmmm. Good thoughts here.
As far as the Penny/Desmond picture...
I dont remember where I read it, but TPTB had shot that first pic before they cast the actress who is playing Penny. After Penny was cast, they CGI'd her in. So the difference is not plot related, just a casting issue. (if TPTB are to be believed........haha)
Something just struck me...isn't there big mutual admiration thing between Stephen King and the Lost TPTB? Not that this means anything, but who's read the Dark Tower series?
The conclusion reminds me a LOT of what Desmond went through/is going through/will go through.
Argh, time stuff makes my head hurt.
Hiya, a few days late, but I don't get to watch Lost right away and I work late thursdays so friday (as I have it off work) is the best day to collect my thoughts and post.
Anyway my observations.
1) Why would a bottle of insanely expensive and rare whisky be on that flight? Is it possible Widmore himself was on the flight? Perhaps Penny is actually looking for him and *not* Desmond. Also with the Widmore/Hanso links perhaps his presence was why the plane was taken down, if it indeed was taken down deliberately.
2) Desmond could have been abducted back when he first ran off from the Hatch. He was gone for plenty of time then.
3) The backwards Namaste on the modern art was a nice touch.
4) There was a guy that walked past in the background at widmore wearing like country squires hat. That along with the way some people talk. Hilarious. With so many people from the UK in the cast you'd think they could give a more accurate portrail of the country. It does rain a lot mind, which would explain everyones lack of suprise (aside from Desmond).
Oh yeah also I don't know of any pub in England that would have a juke box running during an England game. I've also never met an Indian looking person in the UK that spoke that kind of British Empire style English. I always find that strange. That guy should have been speaking like Naveen does when being interviewed.
5) The woman in the jewelers was never going to be just an extra. I recognised her right away, although couldn't place her. I've seen her in a few things and I can't see her just being a one off.
6)Although as I said earlier, it was possible for Des to be kidnapped in the past. Here is another possibility - What if this was actually just a flashback. If Desmond is seeing (or thinking he's seeing) glimpses of the future now, what if he was then as well. What if that woman was actually there and talked him out of marrying Penny to get him to the island. Perhaps the shots he was given was to supress that ability. Perhaps this all ties back to the Valencetti Equation. Perhaps Desmond was one of these savants mentioned in the experience, maybe even in the mental hospital (which has it's own implications - Maybe Libby did work for Hanso/Widmore after all). The result that he has part of the equation in his head and is able to predict the future from that and that is also how they figured he had to do certain things to end up on the island.
Okay that was the big thought for the day. I think maybe at some point Charlie will remember meeting Desmond which will make this theory very possible (although may make Desmond think he's a time traveller).
7) Will they kill Charlie? Well there is a lot of unanswered questions about Charlies behaviour on the island. Lots of theories about him turning evil or something. Perhaps Desmond is meant to let him die and that is what his flashforwards are about. But that makes me think Charlie will surivive at least this season and go on to be some kind of problem later on.
Okay that's it for now.
scout . . .
great if you could remember where you saw that . . .
capcom, etc....
I have a feeling that the "Island Conspiracy" goes back a lot farther than Dharma. Dharma was probably just one link in a chain of organizations fronting for whoever (or whatever) is driving events on the island (perhaps it is "The Island" itself, as Locke keeps insisting.
I'm thinking that the DI was started by Hanso, which had been involved in keeping people coming to the island for at least 100 years (which is why the Black Rock wound up there).
I would not be surprised if Rousseau's expedition (if there was one) was also funded by a shadowy organization like Hanso.
Mittelos is yet another link in the long chain. It may or may not be tied to Hanso. It doesn't matter. The Island's plans predate Hanso's involvement.
Think beyond Dharma, beyond Alvar Hanso, beyond even Magnus Hanso. Think four-toed statue.
And have a nice weekend....
Weird. Uh, it's Fenris btw, dunno why it's put my actual name down.
Hey, Designermama! That was an excellent post, especially the part about the Others (or whoever it turns out to be) always positioning themselves to "guide" our Losties onto the doomed plane, and hence to the Island. How scary to think that they could teleport to wherever a Lostie might need a push!
All of your examples reminded us of how several Losties were hastened along TO the plane. However, how would you explain Hurley's alarm clock not going off and him almost missing the plane? If there were some sort of interference going on, wouldn't someone have pounded on Hurley's hotel room door sooner to awaken him?
Maybe Hurley was never meant to catch the plane and end up on the island. Maybe that's why, during last season's finale, he was the only one not kept by the Others, and was sent back to his camp.
Maybe Hurley's the fly in the ointment because he's the only one who recognized the Numbers, and thus, almost spoiled things a number of times. (Think "Dude, wait! Don't blow the hatch!")
Anyway, Designer, I like your theories.
BTW, I wonder if Ms. Hawking (aka the Ring Lady), is any relation to the great Stephen Hawking?
Wow, I just learned something interesting, and I hope no one else has already mentioned it. (If so, I apologize in advance.)
The white-haired ring lady is named “Ms. Hawking.” The great Professor Stephen Hawking is the author of “A Brief History of Time,” the book that Aldo was reading while he guarded the building where Karl was being indoctrinated in Room 23!
More shout-outs? Or something deeper……..
Gee, where has everyone gone?
Designermama? Engineer27?
Hello-o-o-o?
friday's_child:
That name is certainly not a coincidence.
I don't know if you noticed, but the page of "Brief History of Time" that Aldo was looking at when Alex brought Kate and Sawyer up is the one which contains figures depicting Hawking's theory of "imaginary time," by which he is able to eliminate the singularity from Einsteinian relativity and allow for an inflationary universe without a big bang.
His construction allows space-time to be a continuous, closed system.
For more detail, read the book. If you still don't get it, try getting a PhD in astrophysiscs.
Check it out here:
Not in Portland.
Here's a point:
Ben was the one who planted doubt in Locke's mind regarding the button, and really was the instigator behind Locke's faith's disintegration. Why would Ben want the button pushing stopped? Especially if it meant that they would lose communication or possibility of travel to the "outside"?
Ben didn't seem surprised or bothered when the "sky turned purple". Did he just not know about the failsafe key, and wanted the hatch to implode on its own? We really don't know what would have happened if Desmond did not have the key, and maybe that unknown fate is what Ben wanted.
Just food for thought...
And now we know what YOU do for a living, Engineer27!
I'll get started on that PhD right away, as soon as I get a brain transplant!
LOL!
I realized after my prior post that probably 90% of people who watch Lost have probably read that book, and close to 100% of the people who read this forum.
Sorry.
But, I'm curious as to how many have seen the Film?
Friday's_Child said...
And now we know what YOU do for a living, Engineer27!
Well, I would think the screen name would be a dead giveaway.
Everything happens for a reason...
Right now, the reason is I've got to go.
Have a great weekend all!
And also, Engineer27, now that you've given me a bit of insight into "A Brief History of Time," and how complex it is, I'm seriously impressed with Aldo, who found this book to be a bit of light reading while he did his guard duty.
Is THIS the type of reading material preferred by the Others? Is that why Juliet's book-club choice (was it "Carrie"? I don't recall.) was denigrated by her guest? Too lightweight?
engineer27 said...
"I realized after my prior post that probably 90% of people who watch Lost have probably read that book, and close to 100% of the people who read this forum."
I HIGHLY DOUBT THAT!!
Hi everyone! Turned out my hard drive was going out. I just picked up my CPU with new, bigger hard drive, but it will likely be tomorrow before I can get everything re-installed and get through all these comments.
I hope all of you have figured out what the heck is going on with time, Desmond, the old lady, etc. because after watching the episode twice, I'll admit it--I don't have a clue what's going on.
Looking forward to catching up. Hope everyone has a great weekend, and that all of you who've had bad weather this week are starting to thaw out.
Namaste, or should I say etsamaN.
misskitty211980 said...
Dennis...I don't know you, but you are now my hero!!! Thanks so much to the link about TDT movie! And knowing that one of the LOST guys is working on it...I am having fits of unparalleled happiness!
Thanks :)
Here's another Lost / Office connection for everyone: JJ Abrams directed next week's "The Office"
Phil said... Weird. Uh, it's Fenris btw, dunno why it's put my actual name down.
We could tell it was you by the size of your post :)
It's probably because the blog switched from beta blogger to google blogger. Are you using an old blogger account, or a google/gmail account to log in?
Friday's_Child said... The white-haired ring lady is named “Ms. Hawking.” The great Professor Stephen Hawking is the author of “A Brief History of Time,” the book that Aldo was reading while he guarded the building where Karl was being indoctrinated in Room 23! ... Is THIS the type of reading material preferred by the Others?
That's a nice connection!
BTW, "A Brief History of Time" was written "to help non-scientists understand the questions being asked by scientists today" ... think "Black Holes for Dummies" :)
This book is a bit out-of-date since it was first published in 1988. In A Briefer History of Time", Hawking has rewritten the book to include newer thinking (String theory, etc). I just got it from Amazon yesterday :)
YES, Roomforhuman! I've read "From the Corner of His Eye", and loved it!
One scene from that book that has always stayed with me was when poor, blind Bartholomew would run through a pouring rain from his house to his mom's car. His mom, who would be dripping wet when she joined him in the car commented on Bartie's "dryness".
Bartie said, matter-of-factly, "It was easy to stay dry, Mom. I just ran BETWEEN the raindrops."
He must've folded space between his back door and the car, huh? Also, in the dimension where he could stay dry, he could also SEE. Remember how he said to his mom, "Don't feel bad that I'm blind, mama. I'm only blind in THIS world."
I agree with you that this Dean Koontz book is not to be missed! Thanks for reminding me about it!
Random Thoughts
After watching the episode again, the thing that stood out was separation of the "Locke sweat-lodge" type of vision and the rest of the flashback.
If you cut the whole "vision" out of the episode, it would be a pretty standard flashback: timer runs out, Desmond turns key, wakes up naked in jungle, find picture of Penny, flashback over.
The vision-state dream sequence started and ended with Desmond turning the key. Maybe the blast scrambled his brain, mixing the past with the present (and the future?) Then, once he got hit in the head with the cricket bat, his "vision" ended. You see a flash again of him turning the key, then he is back to his flashback.
Back in the flashback, he wakes up naked next to the exploded hatch. He finds the Picture of Penny, then the flashback ends.
Normally, when a character experiences a flashback, it is accompanied the the "Lost swoopy sound". You don't hear it when he starts or ends his vision. You also don't hear it when he starts his flashback (I just think it would been too much with the timer buzzing), you do hear it when he finishes his flashback and is back on the beach with Charlie.
gracias for the quick breakdown on 20,000 leagues thebookpolice! You da man.
ExperimentalFilm,
Do you have a link for this? I just looked through the screenshots and I didn't see any desert paintings. All I see is animals and firetrucks.
I think the ratings article is a little dramatic, but sums it up pretty well:
Valentine's + new 10:00 pm slot = less ratings
It says there was a 7% drop in viewers overall because of V-Day. I wonder what the drop in numbers are for the crucial 18-49 group. I would guess a much higher drop than in the 50+ age group that watches Criminal Minds and CSI: NY.
ExperimentalFilm said...
What are you looking at that's similar? Do you have a link? I didn't see anything that was even similar when I looked.
Attention SoCal LoCos:
I am going to be in Los Angeles/Orange County all next week, so I'd like to find a good place to watch Lost. Is anyone out there throwing a Lost viewing party?
Ratings: I hope it was just a valentines day fluke! I would hate to see ABC start messing with the show becuase of the drop.
Hey, Dennis! I'm in the San Fernando Valley (Northridge) and we just got a 73" HDTV. The door's open for you! LOL
Hey lets all go to Maven's house!
Actually...
I'll be in Fort Worth, TX next Wednesday- anybody in the Metroplex have a place/party?
We just got this TV delivered today! Can't wait until Wednesday and I can finally watch LOST on HD!
As for the ratings: I know that TV is a "business", but it's a creative business. Hopefully, ABC will let TPTB continue on the course they've charted and not interfere. I don't think anything else in Wednesday's time slots (either 9 or 10 pm) do as well as LOST. I'm really not worried about them cancelling it prematurely.
Just FYI: DocArzt just posted a long comment about that current state of affairs re LOST and the "negative" press about the ratings. Everyone should check it out at thetailsection.
Thanks Maven. Where does one go to send a message to TPTB? I for one have never felt negative about where the show was going. Sure there were a few episodes that weren't very compelling, but overall it's got to be one of, if not THE, best TV show that has ever aired. And quite frankly, I like the time change. Before it aired right in the middle of bathing and getting kids into bed and I always had to record it and watch it later. Now, I actually get to watch it when it comes on. So I would love to tell TPTB that they are doing an awesome job as far as I'm concerned.
You're welcome scoutpost and roomforhuman. I would guess writing to ABC would be a start and letting them know how great the show is just the way it is. (Really...no more whining, peeps! I'm sure the "press" monitors blogs, etc., and makes a mountain out of molehills. Negativity sells papers...can one also say that about website reporting?)
Here's what I just wrote to ABC:
Just wanted to let you know that there are an awful lot of LOST fans out here who are very happy with the way the producers are taking the show. After the long hiatus, the new time change and the recent Valentine's holiday, the ratings will shortly reflect the loyal fan base this show inspires. Sure there's plenty of discussion on blogs and forums about the direction of the show, but they're just places us loyal fans can gather to let off steam and try to second guess the producers. Thank you.
They only give you 500 characters!
DesignerMama said...
“Just an aside, more inventive naming by our writers (and ya gotta love Wiki)
Hieronymus Bosch (Dutch painter from the 15th and 16th centuries)
He produced several triptychs, works of three paintings on wooden panels that are attached to each other. Among his most famous is The Garden of Earthly Delights. This triptych depicts paradise with Adam and Eve and many wondrous animals on the left panel, the earthly delights with numerous nude figures and tremendous fruit and birds on the middle panel, and hell with depictions of fantastic punishments of the various types of sinners on the right panel. When the exterior panels are closed the viewer can see, painted in grisaille, God creating the earth.”
I’m back! Designermama, you and I must be on the same wavelength. Yesterday, someone mentioned the “Hieronymus Machine,” which was fascinating in itself, but I couldn’t see what the connection to Charlie might be, except for the psychic angle of it.
But then, last night, as I was reading Greg Iles’ “The Footprint of God,” one of the protagonists mentioned the paintings of Hieronymus Bosch and the fantastical animals that he portrayed. Since we’d JUST learned that Hieronymus is Charlie’s middle name (how odd, huh? What WAS his mother thinking??), I immediately thought of the painting of the polar bear in Widmore’s office. Don’t know why that popped into my mind.
I’m glad that you decided to write in about H. Bosch, cuz by this morning, I’d already forgotten about it! LOL!
By the way, now I must Google the word “grisaille”. Kinda spelled like “Braille,” so must relate to touch……oh, don’t mind me……I’m off on another word hunt!
Saint Jerome (Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus) best known as teh translator of the Bible from Greek and Hebrew into Latin.
Charlie may have been named after Saint Jerome although using the Latin name. I'm not Catholic but I believe Catholics sometimes name their childern after Saints.
I also Like the painter theory since Charlie has fought with his sins. And the painterd dipicts sins and morality in his paintings.
Also, in re-reading Charlie's sign, "The musical stylings of Charlie Hieronymus Pace...", I think we got to see a rahther snooty side of Charlie. The musical STYLINGS???
All by itself, my right pinkie sprang up & saluted!
On a different subject, I'm sure that many of you have read Michael Crichton's book, "Timeline". After reading many of your theories, which are all SO excellent, especially the ones about time/interdimensional travel, I keep thinking about what one of the characters in "Timeline" kept saying, "Quantum foam makes me roam." This particular character had made too many quantum leaps, and was raving mad. This was just before his body dissolved because his DNA strands were totally out of alignment!!
Good Lord! Let's hope that Desmond stops his "leaping" before HE dissolves. (Tongue is firmly planted in my cheek, you know...)
I'm alone here? Again???
Vic said...
"Hey does anyone remember at the end of the episode "tale of two cities" when Penny W. gets that phone call then shows a pic of desmond and herself..is that the same picture that desmond has on the island..cuz apparently they only took 1 photo..."
Yesirree, Vic, and I think it supports the theory floating around that there ARE different timelines or dimensions. In one timeline, Desmond keeps the picture. In another timeline, Penny keeps it.
Weird, huh?
Wow-w-w-w-w...it's so quiet here, maybe I'M the one who's entered another dimension.
Question: If a Lostie falls in the forest, does anyone hear her?
Yeeeeesh, this is too creepy...I'm outie!
Hey Friday, if I had a middle name like Hieronymus, I'd show it off too! :o) Mine's Lynn.....boooring.
Oh yeah, Bosch is great, and his paintings go very well with the aesthetics of Lost!
Good thoughts about Saint Jerome, Sayidsgirl, I like him.
Maven, picture me drooling like Homer Simpson over your 73" TV!!! -- grrrgle, grrrgle -- BTW, is it easy to find where to email TPTB at ABC on the ABC website? I'll go check now. I would like to write to the ABC execs and to TPTB of Lost.
Hey, Capcom, did you like how I channeled Alicia Silverstone? Outie?
As Charlie Brown says, "Good grief..."
Capcom, I just viewed your profile and you listed many of the same movies that I'm fond of.
Man, I'd completely forgotten about "Gattaca"!
Jude Law...sigh....
Okay,
I've read about 2/3rds of the comments and I'm bleary now, and I want to post, so I'm sorry if I repeat something. Cut me some slack, I'm having to restore tons of stuff on my hard drive. Warning, it's long too.
First off, where were N*#& and P#&() in the opening? Can we assume they've been left with the smoke monster? I vote we don't see them again until they become "iconic." Is there an American Idol 800 number for that?
Did anyone mention that Desmond was almost a doctor and that was how he knew how to perform CPR on Claire? That's what he told Jack back in Man of Science/Man of Faith. Yet we learned this week he didn't finish University because he had to take care of his 3 brothers when his father . . . Now, in the US you can't go to med school until you've finished a Bachelor's degree. Is England different? Maybe this is something he did while in the military (which we have not seen, though maybe Desmond has).
Why did they need to get Desmond drunk? Why didn't they just ask him what was the deal, other than as an opportunity to place that whiskey bottle 3 times?
Maven posted a ways back about the word "Coward" being a trigger for Desmond. I guess this is his "Don't tell me what I can't do." I agree that this clearly was a trigger for Des, but I can't decide where I come out on the time travel, dream, what the heck happened question. When the flashback first started in the Hatch, I thought it was going to be a backwards flash like the backwards episode of Seinfeld, but then it went forward again.
Penny and Desmond are a mirror relationship of Sun and Jin obviously. In a twist, Jin went to ask Sun's father for her hand and ended up with a job, Des went to ask Mr. Widmore for a job, but asked for Penny. Des and Jin's job interview flashbacks also had
key scenes with ties.
In this instance "all the best cowboys had father-in-law issues." Again there was this whole you're a "good" man, you'll never be a "great" man, he's a "good man, maybe even a great man" stuff. Which reminds me, how the heck are Ben's people "the good guys?" That is my major Season 2 outstanding mystery.
Sorry, Chucklez, but the minute I saw Desmond's friend, I was like Mohindar's on Lost now.
So if Desmond really has flashes of the future, is the Hatch painting important after all? Are there clues on it?
Ange and some others talked about how sweet and sad Desmond and Penny were. I agree. "The occasion is I love you." What a great Valentine's Day sentiment. And how is it that Penny and Desmond are still in contact when he's sent to military prison? They are obviously close enough that she puts the letter in "his precious book." I know this has been raised, but has it been answered.
Okay, so when Mrs. Hawking (old lady with the ring) says "and if you don't do . . . every single one of us is dead." At first I thought she meant the special people, people like her and Desmond and maybe the Others, but not the whole world. Surely the whole world doesn't hinge on Desmond? Or does it?
Okay, sorry again Chucklez, but this episode was so much like Heroes it was annoying. First of all, Mrs. Hawking talked about how you couldn't change someone's fate. Well this was exactly like what happened with Hiro and Charlie (yes Charlie, though she's a girl on Heroes). And Desmond's trying to interfere now just like Hiro did. What's more, Mrs. Hawking reminded me of Claude who's now trying to teach Peter how to use his powers.
How does everyone explain that they only had one photo taken and yet we've seen it in two places, on Island and in Penny's bedroom?
I'm leaning more towards the time loop thing because Penny tells Desmond "don't you rewrite history." And then naked Desmond at the Hatch says "let me go back. Let me go back one more time. . . . I'll do it right this time." which would seem to indicate he believes he's having a Groundhog Day kind of life, but what's the cycle? It's obviously several years which I just can't get my head around.
Thanks to whoever it was who found out it's two different white-haired actresses this week and next week. They look an awful lot alike. Why do they do this kind of thing?
Great job on all the Oz references everyone. I wished for shriveling feet too.
Memphis said...
"Thanks to whoever it was who found out it's two different white-haired actresses this week and next week. They look an awful lot alike."
Thank you, Memphish! That was me who recognized the two different actresses. I just always liked the "Mommie Dearest" actress, Diana Scarwid, who is on next week. She looks positively WICKED, doesn't she?
Agreed Friday, the Gattaca Jude Law = yum.....post sleezy cheating Jude Law = yuk, now. :-p But yes, he is sooooooo good in that! I really like the spirit of the story, of trying like heck to reach your goals, no matter how unqualified someone else thinks you might be for them. Written by the same fellow who wrote The Truman Show, I believe.
Was that who said "outie"? I'd forgotten. :o)
BTW LoCos, I just got back from seeing "Breach" tonight, it's awesome! I very much recommend it for anyone who is into Spy-vs-Spy topics. Chris Cooper is excellent.
Memphish, yowza! 1) Well, did they not list the Bleepers in the opening creds? I missed that.
2)Oh right! Dez told Jack about almost being a doc, right? I forgot about that as well. So I guess that an almost-doctor is also not good enough for Daddy's little girl.
3)D'oh! Clues in the hatch painting? Good question! So much to see there, will check again.
4)Is Claude in Heroes, the same guy who played Dr. Who in the first season re-issue last year?
5)Me, I didn't think that Fiona and Scarwid looked at all similar, but maybe that's just because I've watched Mommie Dearest too many times. :o)
Friday, I thought that Scarwid was pretty scary in MD as well, she would get that glassy-eyed, trance look, and would speak in a very monotone voice. Especially when she spoke the last line of the movie......shiver!
now im half asleep but ive heard people mention Tom talking about "when the sky went purple"
youve probably already worked this out, but do you think that the sky turning purple is when Dezzi decided to do that key turning? :)
oof and also.... In series 3 in one of the first few episodes Sawyer gets the fish biscuit and somebody says it didnt take "the bears that long". Before episode 7 came on in the UK there was a TV show on called LOST Uncovered. and they asked somebody from the World Animal Protection agency (or some animal thing) ( btw a realy guy from a real animal thing) anyway. They asked him if it was possible for a Polar Bear to survive in a Pacific Island. And his answer was "Yes. If somebody was feeding it" so would it make sense that the Others were feeding the polar bears/ the bears reffered to being in the cages were the polar bears?
just saying :)
Capcom,
Claude is the Dr. Who guy.
Experimentalfilm, I'm with you. I've loved these last two episodes. So many things to try to get your head around.
As for the first part--I liked it. Give me a nickname, some running through the jungle with Giachhino music and a shirtless, wet Desmond, and hey, what can I say, I'm happy. (I'll give you the whole "This Island killed him" though. That was cr*% writing.)
I'm not worried about the rating thing, because hey, all I can do is watch. I can't control the rest.
I'm so glad to be back on line with you all.
and another thing. that video from the Mittelos website (fake TPTB may say it be. but still worth picketting around - im bored) my friend is a very good video editor and he managed to make the audio better and get a transcript of what is said (but you all already have that) but not sure if anybody noticed this but he says that hwne you make the audio clearer there is a beeping in the background that sounds like a life-support machine or one of them heart-machines you would get in a hospital (cant think of the name... you know what i mean..if you dont watch greys anatomy lol)
Just thought... incase it turns out to be "real"
And we're glad to have you back Memphish!
I'm with you, it's allllll good! :o)
I was watching Live Together Die Alone again and I found it interesting that when Desmond is released from prison the guard asks him why he didn't take the book in. Desmond says I'm saving it so it will be the last thing I ever read before I die. The guard says Nice idea as long as you know when you're going to die. Do you think maybe Desmond has seen his own death too?
Capcom said: BTW, is it easy to find where to email TPTB at ABC on the ABC website? I'll go check now. I would like to write to the ABC execs and to TPTB of Lost.
I did just go to the ABC site...Contact us...show LOST...subject: Comments. They only allow 500 characters (not words!)
Memphish: You must be so relieved to be back online! We are, too!
Thanks Maven, I still haven't stopped reading Lost theories yet, and gone to the ABC website, I even forgot to stop for a half hour and watch The Soup.
BTW, who's to say that you can't write more than one 500 character email to them? :o)
Thanks for the warm re-welcomes. I've likened no computer access to having my right arm cut off. Since I'm left handed, it's not the end of the world, but it's darn inconvenient. My goal is to have everything necessary back on this new hard drive by Monday morning. We'll see.
Sayid's girl good question about Desmond forseeing his own death thus knowing when to read "Our Mutual Friend," but I don't think he has because he pulled it out to begin reading it in "Deus Ex Machina" when Locke pounded on the Hatch. Then he stopped when that happened and he turned on the light. Of course, he was drunk when he got it out. I'd guess alcohol affects his flashes negatively.
Experimentalfilm asked are you a MOS or MOF re Season 3. At this point I'm a Man of Faith (well woman). I liked Episodes 1-6, but in a normal TV show sort of way. I did not rewatch them or feel I needed to or should rewatch them over the hiatus. Yet I hung around waiting to see what they'd have for me and my faith has been rewarded. And now, I'm even more of faith because after this last episode I'm completely "what on earth or not" was that? I'm not a big time travel/bending/looping person, but I'm willing to suspend disbelief when it comes to these storytellers.
memphish
I like your avatar and I'm a lefty too. I forgot about Desmond getting out the book in Deus Ex Mchina. I think he was contimplating suicidedon't know if that changes things or not. I am a Man of Faith always have been. Glad you got internet access back I enjoy your posts.
Can't a person be a (wo)man of faith and science? That's where I would put myself.
So now I'm confussed. Is the Ring Lady a Time Lord or or what? Her Tardis is broke, she's stuck on Earth and stading on the street corner preaching The Gospel of Rassilon, "You can't change your fate", or some nonsense like that.
Nikkie..... Paulo..... Wo bist du?.....
Well it looks like Nikkie and Paulo are M.I.A. Up to no good I'm sure!
Dig Y'all Later
that is nobbbody comment upon my comments :p hehe
tell you what after TLE i just concentrated on completely different thing and never came onto here.... only takes a good girlfriend breaking up with me to get me hooked on lost again lol
good things always come of bad things :p hehe
....even if it SHOULD be me concentrating on passing my gcse's ..but stuff that i prefer lost :)
picsel,
Here's a little feedback. I'm not sure exactly where Tom was going with "since the sky turned purple." Clearly the sky did turn purple when Des turned the key. It was remarked on over and over. But it doesn't make sense that Des turning the key while Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley were on the Pala Ferry pier is the thing that kept Ben from seeking medical treatment elsewhere because he'd known about the tumor 60+ days before that event.
But is Desmond is having a Groundhog Day experience, then he's been turning the key who knows how long and that could be what Tom is referring to. Don't know.
In the Mittelos video, is the beeping during the mysterious guy part or when the little girl is talking to Aunt Julie?
im not sure i'kll have to talk o him, but i think it is in he mysterious guy part.
ah yeah good point. but would the 60 days even make a difference when it comes to time travel?
Somebody posted an interview with Benry somewhere. and he raised a good question. Why do the others stay on the Island if they have the resources to get off of the island especially in Benry's case where he could die from it.
Seeing as we know that once you leave you cant come back. There must be something that keeps the others on the island... or is that just the virus we found out about in TLE that the Others think is still out there? or is there something more?
anybody on here?
www.mittelosbioscience.com now works instead of .org
and so does www.mittelosbioscience.net
from the look of theopening i would agree with the fakeness especially seeing as they seem to have taken every dot something..
The font used isnt professional (i make websites) and although made using flash it looks immature for such a mature company. my vote is fake :)
Sorry about this i wont post again lol. but coming to think of it this flash website is made very well and im beginning to doubt whether somebody could make this AND get it on a server and buy all th edomains for it in just one week seeing as its only been a week since we found out about mittelos...
Picsel: There's been a lot of discussion about the Mittelos website when it first appeared a few days before the show did. I believe the overall consensus is is that it's a fansite and not part of the show...although everyone seems to feel it's very well done for a fansite. It sure kept us all busy for a few days!
yeah i know i just thought it was interesting. And besides it did come up before the next episode did. so they must have made the entir thing in 5/6 days
and bought all the hosting. so whoever it was worked fast lol. i beleive its a fan site. its just interesting but it did make something connect in my mind
Juliet had a breakthrough in fertility (making th emale mouse pregnant) and making her sister pregnant.... and electromagnetism affects fertility which i think we concluded is why the Others steal babies. Could it be that Juliet was "chosen" to be on the island so that shecould continue to breakthrough in fertility and help thos eon the island.
Here's my letter to ABC.
I want to let you know I love LOST, have loved it since the first episode, and had a wonderful summer playing The Lost Experience. I'm a regular on the LOST blogs and messageboards. Thank you for having such an intelligent and thought-provoking show. I'm a 53-year-old psychologist and LOST has become my hobby in my very limited free time. Some shows are worth the effort beyond the Hollywood ratings wars. Think HOMICIDE, a show that transcended ratings into the realm of art and became a hit.
My e-mail would simply be 500 characters worth of "thank-you" TV was so crap before lost lol. I watch a few programs, but lost changed it for me from countless years of waiting for another flaming series of Big Brother to come onto channel 4.
thank god for shows like Lost and Prison Break. Clever shows. that have a plot and hopefully wont be dragged out too long (but tbh how are they going to answer ALL of these questions about Lost in 4/5 series? - i reckon there will be 2 more TLE's to finish off the entire story about everything :) - wishful thinking)
Happy Saturday LoCos,
Wow Barbarajay, you must be having a field day with Lost characters, being a psychologist! I'm just a longtime homestudy pshychology student who has always loved to analyze behavior, but being a professional you have a lot more informed viewing perspective than all of us! Don't hesitate to tell us what you think about how TPTB carve out the characters' behavior and such, it would be very interesting to read what you think. It would also be interesting to know if TPTB might be particularly crafting the Lostaways/Others personalities from any of the so-called "textbook" personality descriptions in some ways.
Picsel, I agree, that was an awful lot of talented work to do in just one week, on that fan-or-not-fan website, if they were one of the few who got to pre-view the "Portland" ep before it aired! Has anything much happened there lately? I haven't checked back since the Dez episode blew my brain cells all over the living room Wednesday night. :o)
And that's also what I was thinking of writing to ABC/TPTB....thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou......times infinity!
P.S. Picsel, sorry about your breakup. Good for you for trying to find the bright side of it all. :o)
Hey! Everyone it the Doc! I haven't been commenting lately but I have good news. I have no school for the week! woop woop! I'll be able to comment more during this week! I'm lovong Lost can't wait to talk to you guys later
yeah thats what i dont understand. It is so much to do in 5 days...
im gunna do some research on A4993-E3 which is the name of the drug Juliet was using on her sister.
Hey, Dr. Spongebob! Great to hear from you again, friend. Glad that you can maybe post with us more for the next ep, since you have no school. Hope that school is going well also.
:o)
soo..hmmmm any theories anybody?
hello, LoCos!!
just dropping in to let you know I'm still alive and kickin'; well maybe not kickin'; it's been a really rough month or so and I hope to be back with you very soon.
I haven't been able to keep up with the conversations and I doubt I'll get caught up. I do have to say that I was disappointed with the introduction of TIME TRAVEL. Although it could eventually explain the way that time passes on the island I find it to be a cop out. We are much more sophisticated than that... I just hope there still be more "possible" science to go with the time travel theory.
well welcome back. and i wouldnt know yet dont get the episode till sunday and i wont be able to watch it till monday as im at a concert with my ex-girlfriend tomorrow (looking forward to that - not)
but apparently it was an amazing episode. but i would like it all to be more "possible"
Hi TLCM, SO good to hear from you!
im dying...
i neeeeeed discussion lol. Do we still have the IRC? / where do i find it?
All right everyone who wanted a lip reader, I was listening to the Dharmalars latest podcast and a woman called in and said that she was 99% sure that part of what Ben said was:
"Jacob would want you to help them Juliet."
Wow!
huh? fill me in memphish whats going on? XD
I’ve been meaning to comment on this:
Ben said to Jack, in discussing the spinal tumor, “I needed a spinal surgeon, and lo, a spinal surgeon dropped out of the sky.”
Then, Juliet said, in speaking to Mr. Alpert about her ex-husband, that ex-hubby would let her go, “…if he were to get hit by a bus!” Gee, and he got hit by a bus. Imagine that!
This seems to definitely point to some sort of ‘outside interference’ by SOMEONE.
I’m leaning towards the theories that Designermama posted yesterday. It’s a bit long, but I hope no one minds me re-posting it here, in case anyone missed it. I really grabbed hold of what she said and have run with it!
Here's Designermama's theory:
"I think Desmond DID time-travel, but the time he was gone was only as long as the purple sky "incident". I think the purple sky thing is the in/out door of the big ol' laboratory that is our island. But he was sent back in his past to a crucial turning point in his life and made enough little tweaks to it that he "splintered" the timeline or changed it (like in Quantum Leap or BTTFuture), setting up a world where Penny is looking for him (which we learn after the purple sky, right?).
Hanso, or Mittelos, or the Others, or whoever gathers people for the Island keeps people pushing the button to keep things status quo. Perhaps they have "Watchers" out in the world, seeing to it that people keep on the intended course that will bring them to the island. Cindy, the White Haired woman from the jewelry shop, the psychic who talks to Claire, anyone who intercepts our Losties and keeps them making the choices that will MAKE them wind up on the island.
SO... we are not to trust these people. Free will DOES exist, but it will ruin all their plans (whatever they might be) if people don't make the "right" choices. Desmond COULD have changed his mind and stayed with Penny but the Island, or the folks running it, NEED Desmond. I'm no longer sure it's to save the world even though that was what we learned this summer in our game. Don't know what they're up to (which is why I keep watching). Some of these people are time travelers or astral projectors or whatever; keeping things aligned to their liking (like Marty keeping his parents together or Sam making sure someone doesn't get killed in 1962). "Helping" people end up on the Island. Any number of Others could pop up in flashbacks (like Ethan and the White Haired woman) or flashback people can show up on the island (the psychic, Walt's stepfather, random people from our Losties’ past who pointed them toward Australia so they'd wind up on the right plane.
Remember that Desmond saved Charlie's life by crashing the plane. He will save Charlie time and time again. He won't die any time soon, but eventually Desmond won't be there and he will die. I don't know why Charlie is so important, but he seems to be.”
Thanks, Designermama, that was really, really good stuff!
Hi, TLCM! Sorry to hear that you were disappointed by the 'time travel' storyline (if it is indeed 'time travel').
I think that we're dealing with something far, far deeper than time travel, though.
I, and others, think that it's more of an interdimensional, parallel timeline sort of thing, and is far from being simplistic or a cop-out!
If you re-read the current postings, you'll see how deeply we're delving into this.
maybe charlie is alive to keep aaron alive as he so intent on him. and my lost memory is pretty fuzzy atm, but was it charlie who had the bible-dream type thing?
i dunno but charlie is important and i doubt it is for re-populating the earths heroin stash after the virus wreaks havoc. i think its something to do with aaron.
Or then again. maybe the whole thing is just a heroin-trip thats all in his little stoned brain...
Yep, Picsel, Charlie was the one who had the religion-oriented dream about "saving Aaron".
ALSO, a potential breakthrough here:
"memphish said...
All right everyone who wanted a lip reader, I was listening to the Dharmalars latest podcast and a woman called in and said that she was 99% sure that part of what Ben said was:
"Jacob would want you to help them Juliet."
Thanks, Memphish! Do we have any clues yet on who this mysterious Jacob is?
This might sound odd, but in regards to the lady who was able to lip-read what Ben said to Juliet, I'm just curious:
Does viewing a mirror-image of lips speaking differ in any way from seeing their lips straight on?
Jacob sounds like another bible reference lol
on the Charlie topic. his Middle name Hieronymus is obviously not a very common name and obviously some kind of shout-out.
and in light of the latest episode i've found this bit of research very fitting
"In 1948 a scientist, inventor named T. Galen Hieronymus patented a machine which was designed to "detect the presence of any element or combination of elements that may be in substance under investigation to determine their intensity an/or quanity thereof by the detection of their emissions or emanations." This simply means the device can locate any element by its individual freqency. The device turned out to be far, far more. It later became and still is the subject of a storm of controversy.The F.D.A. has branded it as a fake and incapable of accomplishing anything that is claimed for it. On the other side of the coin are those who have been experimenting with the machine. Here are some of the fantastic claims.
1. In the Cumberland Valley a scientist from the Pennsylvania Farm Bureau put a photo of an insect infested field into the machine commonly called a "Black Box". Along with it they put a tiny amount of insecticide. Forty-eight hours later, the insects in the infected field, many miles away, were all dead!
2. A scientist named George de la Warr, head of a huge of laboratory in Oxford, England put a piece of ordinary photographic film into an opening in the device and after a few minutes, removed a picture of his wife and himself on their wedding day, 30 years before.
3. Galen Heironymus himself used his psionic device to monitor the life support systems of the Apollo astronauts. He successfully recieved all the correct data, before Nasa did.
Psionics as it is called is being explored and experimented with by some of the most prestigious learning centers in the world. Among them Columbia, Duke and Pennsyvania Universities. The Soviet Academy of Sciences and even Dow Chemical Co. Even Edgar Mitchell, the astronaut gave up space flight and went into psionics. "
the full thing is found at http://www.lifetechnology.org/hieronymus.htm
Thanks, Picsel! It's going to take me a moment to read this before I comment. Plus I haven't had any lunch yet!
Back in a minute!
in part of the article it mentions these as things the machine can do
1. enhancement of physical strength and health.
2. improving energy levels and stamina.
3. attracting success, prosperity and financial abundance into ones life.
4. Increasing the chances of career success.
5. Self improvement, reversal of aging.
6. Relaxation and elimination of stress.
7. Improvement of self esteem and confidence levels.
8. Influencing the outcome of challenging situations.
9. Distant healing.
10. Improving personal and professional relationships.
11. Enhancement of athletic and sports skills.
12. Attract romantic love or your true soul mate.
13. Happiness etc.
I find enhancement of physical strength to be very interesting because of Benry's interview when he said "Why are the others just a bit stronger?"
and also the "influence on challenging situations" obviously as a link to the latest episode. Also Distant healing i thought was another one.
This passage also intrigued me in link to the person who told Rose about Frequencies and how she was told she had to find the right frequency
"The theory behind psionics is based on quantum physics. Briefly the theory goes like this.
All matter in the universe is composed of small packets of energy known as quantas. This energy, which goes into the making up of atoms pulsates or resonates at a particular frequency. Each atom being different therefore, has a slightly different pulsation or frequency. Thus each material thing being made up of a combination of atoms, called molecules, has its own unique frequency, unlike any other. Now because each individual thing is unique, no potato for instance is exactly like any other potato. There exists an "empathy" between the whole potato and each of its individual parts. If you slice that potato in half, the frequency of each half is exactly the same. The only example of that frequency anywhere in the universe. The rub arose when these researchers claimed that an affinity existed between these two pieces. This affinity or empathic resonance formed a link between the two pieces no matter how much distance separated them.
It was some kind of energy link that operated very much like a radio wave. And they found that by using one piece as a sort of tuning crystal in a special kind of transmitter, they could cause a reaction in the other piece, even miles away. Sort of like the mysterious thing that exists between sets of identical twins, who start out in life as a single cell. Often when one twin is injured the other "feels" the pain dispute any distance between them. In other words, these machines are the first to harness the lifeforce energy to make thought reality. They are literally electronic magic."
Ok...maybe more than a minute...
Oh but seeing as you can BUY the machine lol. although i do find it very interesting so my guess would b ethat the island is perhaps the machine sort of.
the people who have been there the longest (The Others) are the ones affected by it more. (better strength - Juliet knocking Jack out in one punch)
but i think the science of it is very interesting.
Wow picsel that is something. I'm not sure I get it, but it's definitely worth looking at and certainly more obscure than Hieronymous Bosch. In that list of things, No. 3 attracting financial success reminds me of what happened with the Numbers, both for Sam Toomey and Hurley.
As for the lip reading thing--after Not in Portland the message boards were full of calls for lip readers. This is the first person I've heard that's come up with anything. She didn't say how she did it. Could just be blowing smoke, but I'm willing to buy it for now.
Ooh, and number 7 is improvement of self esteem and confidence levels. So that could explain pre-Island and post-Island Juliet.
Something that occurred to me that i think ties into desmonds "flashback" is the pearl orientation film, remember wickman said that the only thing is that the button pusher "thinks his task is of the utmost importance" this could go with the flashback being real and dharma operatives grooming desmond to be the buttonpusher and ultimately key turner. Kelven most obviously set up desmond to take the key and use it. WHat i mentioned earlier about zeke implying that since the sky turned purple that they cannot leave anymore. Since ben is a life long islander it would make sense that he purposely convinced locke not to push the button so that his higher ups would also be trapped on the islands???thoughts. The way that widmore really mind f'cked desmond into joining the military i think the flashback was real and unchanged. The question remains what did desmond refuse to do in the military to get courtmarshaled? The way desmond was so eager to beleive that the jewelry store matrix lady was his subcounsious perhaps he has a mental history like hurley. Most sane people dont have full blown hallucinations from their subcounsious mind
Picsel,
Yesterday, a LoCo directed us to Wiki to read this:
"As explained mostly by Astounding Science Fiction editor John W. Campbell in late 1950s and early 1960s editorials, Hieronymus machines were mockups of real machines (patented by their inventor, Dr. Thomas Galen Hieronymus) which allegedly worked by analogy or symbolism, being directed by psi or ESP powers."
Picsel, you've really expanded this concept of a Hieronymus Machine by giving us this info. Thanks!!
How fascinating this all is! Wow, the idea that the Island is a giant Hieronymus Machine/Black Box.....I can't quite wrap my mind around it yet.
Charlie's middle name is not a shout-out, but a CLUE!!
and it would also link to this whole saving charlie because he is important if he somehow has something to do with it in the bigger picture....
somebody also pointed out somewhere that Hieronymus is an anagram of Humes Irony. (i dontquite know what this means lol but it sounded interesting lol)
Humes Irony? Add in an apostrophe and it becomes "Hume's Irony".
WHY does that sound so familiar?? Someone on this blog mentioned the name "Hume". Help!
P.S. Yes, I know about David Hume, but can't remember what was said regarding him.
yeah now you mention it it does sound familiar.. something from TLE?
"Empathic resonance."
Ooooh, me like that!
First, there is Desmond David Hume. That's why it's very familiar. Mr. Widmore always calls Dezzie "Hume." David Hume is also a philosopher who debated free will vs. determinism.
Galen Hieronymus must have done considerable research. His "Hieronymus Machine", described on Wiki, was apparently a "mock-up" of a real machine.
The "Black Box" that Picsel has researched sounds like a REAL box, and not just a mock-up.
Did the "Black Box" expand on the "Machine" theories, and bring them to fruition?
bet it took the writers a goo dlong while to think of that and link it all in together.
well i guess thats where the irony comes from. from the Hieronymus machine to "Influence challeneges" and it is desmond who is trying to influence it to keep Charlie alive.
Free Will seems to be one thing the Losties are missing as it seems their whole life could have been changed by the Others / somebody else
this is a wiki of hume philosophy seems relevent..." The problem of causation"
When one event continually follows after another, most people think that a connection between the two events makes the second event follow from the first (post hoc ergo propter hoc - after this, therefore, because of this.). Hume challenged this belief in the first book of his Treatise on Human Nature and later in his Enquiry concerning Human Understanding. He noted that although we do perceive the one event following the other, we do not perceive any necessary connection between the two. And according to his skeptical epistemology, we can trust only the knowledge that we acquire from our perceptions. Hume asserted that our idea of causation consists of little more than expectation for certain events to result after other events that precede them
Thanks, Memphish! I hadn't noticed that Widmore call Des "Hume".
Thanks also for telling us about David Hume's philosophy. (I'm too long out of college to remember my Philosophy class...)
i guess the Widmores just were calling him by his surname more than any type of clue
That's why there's Wikipedia. You might also be interested in this link which discusses the episode from a very literary, very philosophical viewpoint.
Here's my own version of Hume's philosophy. Just call it "Friday'sChild's Law" (a take on "Murphy's Law):
When bad things start to happen, they always come in threes.
Why is that?
And, no, I don't do anything to "causation" these wretched trios of misfortune!!
a quote from that article memphish linked to
Hermann Weyl first hypothesized wormholes in 1921 when studying electromagnetic field energy
thats an extremely good little interesting find memphish
in light of the movie coming out on 23rd march #(The number 23) has anybody done any research on The 23 Enigma (seeing as it is one of the numbers?) just wondering. i can post some stuff on it if you all wish, but i cant see one number meaning more than th eother. but its interesting how one of our "numbers" has such a cult following
i saw somewhere either on here or on another site somebody talking baout how people who changed the main characters paths. to make sure they were on the island. how they could have been "others" making sure they followed the path.. such as the psychic claire visited (who also met Eko) he definitely made claire get on the island.
This would also lower the main losties "free will" with people guiding them to b eon the island
lol... maybe wonder which Other the 70 year old uterus woman was?
from another forum..
Remember Gannon Car Rentals?
heres a screen shot from the latest Nip/Tuck episode over in the states.... but its on Fox....surely.....surely it cant mean anything
http://static.flickr.com/99/304038793_5fc25e80d0_o.jpg
nobody want s to comment any more... just as it was all getting good lol
the stewrdess is also a dhrama plant that ties into my theory about the tailies not supposed to survive at all. Charlie is due to die because he was a taily he was in the bathroom and remember the stewrdess was trying to get him back in his section. He was also going to die when ethan hung him from his neck. The pilot was left alive to make sure they knew that they were 1000 miles off course and were not going to be saved. The scene from 3x1 where ben send goodwin and ethan he acts like maybe some tailies would survive,but to ethan he assumes that there will be survivors...
in the fusalage
yeah thats a good point. but im not sure about th eben talking to them. as its less likely there will be survivors with it landing in the sea like drowning and stuff. but thats a good point about cindy... and how charlie should have already died like countless times
the way ben was all smiley on the pier when the sky turned purple i gotta believe that he wanted everyone to be permanently stranded. Since mike and walt just left right before that i think its doubtful that they ever escaped, like i said before ben wouldnt chance giving the maagic escape cordinates in front of hurley jack sawyer and kate anyway
yeah thats a really good point. maybe..
perhaps thats why he said "you wont be able to get back anyway" to michael? perhaps there is no longer a way onto the island? or maybe thats just how it is once you leave you dont get back
Whoa, you all are getting very deep today, I LOVE it!
Thanks for sharing the research on the Hieronymus machine, et.al. Very compelling. I wonder if the subject was ever discussed by Art Bell and company? I love the list of the things that the machine can do. Just about makes one's life perfect, eh?
Hey that's right, Jack even saved Charlie one time as well! I forgot about that.
Cindy I could believe was a plant, she always gave me the creeps, but that could be just me. She just seemed too, too, over friendly with Jack and is extra little bottles in the plane.
"70 year old uterus woman", what a moniker! :o) "Hey Granny-Womb, come here!" :-D
Now wait, Juliet sucker-punched Jack, he never saw it coming! But I know what you mean, the Others, especially Ethan, seem to be a bit physically superior to the Lostaways.
Great homework everyone! Very interesting. :o)
hangon a sec..
im still laughing at "Hey Granny-Womb, come here!"
...
did you see the link i posted capcom? to the picture of the Gannon Car Rentals ad on the Nip/Tuck episode?
seems rather weird to me
Wow, that is weird about the rental name. Not even how it applies to two other shows, but that that would happen across networks! TV Land must be a very crossover type of job network or else everyone uses the same prop company, that's bizarre. :o)
BTW, I saw an excellent program on one of the prop companies in Hollywood and let me tell you, you would cut off your right arm like Dr. Candle to work there! Very cool warehouse full of wonder stuff.
well its not a real company.. seems bizarre to have a FX show using it.... whether it was just cunningly put in or whether there are other things to look for during that particular episode of Nip/Tuck?!?!
i dunno but is very weird
I wonder if the name was web searched, if it would come up saying that it is a big inside Hollywood joke to always use Gannon rentals in movies and TV! :-D
BTW-2, someone waaaaaaay up in the posts mentioned something that I forgot that I noticed also....the fact that Dezzie's "whatever-backs" were not accompanied by the same wooshing-fwop sound that all the other flashbacks have been preceded by and ended with. Interesting....unless TPTB are just changing their MO in the middle of the game. We'll see, next time there is another authentic flashback of someone again.
Hey, Picsel, my eyes bugged out when I saw that Nip/Tuck screen shot showing the Gannon Car Rentals brochure clutched in Julia's hand!
Then I remembered something from last summer's TLE game, and how we griped that the photos of the 'executive directors' were taken from an agency called...called...darn, I can't remember. Wait! It was called "Getty's". Something like that.
Maybe the tv industry has a generic, non-copyrighted pool of names for just about anything, and any of the networks can use it...for a price, of course.
i doubtthey would chasnge halfway through.......
my guess is it was their way of telling us that this wasnt a flash back. it was something else.
thats what everyone says but it sounds stupid that people can come up with complex story lines and then take a name out of a pool of names....
plus it wasnt the fact that it was the same name. it was th eexact same corporate identity... same fon. same colours. arranged in the same way.
I agree Picsel, I'm hoping that's the case.
Thanks again to everyone today for the links to interesting places. I also very much like the Powell's site.
That's a good theory Friday.
so anyway. does anybody have a good screenshot of jacks tatoos?
never mind.
found an explanation on jack's tattoos as an insight into the up-comng episode and from the LOST moments.
"A word by word explanation of the 4 Chinese characters on the tattoo.
The first character means "Eagle". The second character means "Strike" as a verb. The third one means "Long" and the final one means "Void".
This four characters are part of a couplet taken from a famous poem written in 1925 by the Chinese revolutionary leader Chairman Mao Tse-tung (MAO Zedong). The couplet can be translated into "Eagles high up, cleaving the space" (transl. A. W. T.). But the poem itself has a much deeper meaning. In the end of the first stanza, the poet asks, " who masters fate's rise and descent?" (transl. A. W. T.).
Like most tattoos featuring Chinese characters, the characters are not rendered 100% correctly in Fox's tattoo. The second character "Strike" is a simplified Chinese character while the first and third characters are traditional Chinese characters. The last character, "Void", can be considered as of either form. The reason for this mismatch could be that the form of "Strike" in its current Simplified Chinese form is very similar to the triangular shape above the characters."
The full article goes into more detail and even posts the poem he talks about.
Here is the link to the article
http://www.ece.neu.edu/~xzhu/lost_tatoo.html
AND here is the poem. just out of interest.
"Standing alone in the autumn cold:
The Hsiang flowing northward,
Orange Island, the cape.
I see thousands of hills in crimsoned view,
The woods piling up in deep-dye;
The mighty stream, in its gleam of jade,
One hundred barques racing by.
Eagles high up, cleaving the space,
Fish gliding above shallow ground;
Ten thousand creatures, under frosty a sky,
all fighting for freedom.
In the waste's dreariness brooding,
I ask the blue space without bonds:
Who masters fate's rise and descent?
Once I came here with a hundred companions,
Vivid the months and years yet, filled with pride.
Schoolmates we were, and young altogether,
Upright and honest, in the bloom of our lives;
Impetuous students, full of enthusiasm,
We cast all restraints boldly aside.
Pointing to China, its mountains and rivers,
Setting the people afire with our words,
And counted for muck all those ranking high.
Do you still can remember:
How, venturing midstream, the oars lashed the waters
And the waves yet staying the flight of our boats?"
Since our comments have gone over 400, I'll bet that we'll soon get a new...what's it called? A new thread for us to post on?
I feel strongly, Picsel, that when that happens, you should RE-POST your Hieronymus Machine/Black Box research posts to the new thread. As complicated as it is, I'm beginning to think that we may find some strong answers there.
There's someone named "Engineer27" who posted yesterday, and he wrote a a tiny glimpse of what "A Brief History Of Time" is about.
*eyes popping*
I think he's into physics and other very deep scientific stuff, and can explain this "Hieronymous" puzzle.
If he does return to this blog, I want him to be able to see your postings.
Don't forget!
P.S. As for Jack's tattoos, isn't that going to be covered next week with Bai Ling? I don't recall seing an up-close pic of them.
Oh, good, you already posted re: the tats! LOL!
look up :p
found an explanation of them... whether this is the one meant to be portrayed by TPTB or not is to be answered in one week lol but stil
i found this quote of particular interest in light of todays talks
Ten thousand creatures, under frosty a sky,
all fighting for freedom.
You're an absolute GEM, Picsel!! I love the fantastic stuff you're posting!
I gotta run to the post office, and will be right back!
So Fox is into Maoism? I would be more interested in knowing why Fox had the symbols tatooed, than why Jack does.
P.S., I also feel that you should repost the Hieronymus Machine info when we get a new thread. It really hits a chord with the flow of the show and ties some mysteries together, and I would be very surprised of TPTB don't have that in mind.
well ive just gone back through the topic and pulled the main points from my posts about it and gunna pull some from your guys thoughts on it too, its kinda long but i think it'll be worth the read to people who missed it.
yeah i dont understand why they are tieing in the actors tats :S unless they are fake tats he only has for LOST type things to make us believe there was no point in finding out about them? i dunno seems weird though
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