Thursday, October 05, 2006

A TALE OF TWO CITIES - SEASON 3, EPISODE 1 (POST 3)









This is a second "lag alleviation" post for "A Tale of Two Cities". So much great conversation resulted in the previous 2 threads, we had to start yet another! Again, as we finalize our definitive strategy to protect the purists from spoilers, please try to keep your discussions generally, "spoiler free". Enjoy the community!

237 comments:

1 – 200 of 237   Newer›   Newest»
Thrasher76 said...

First!!! Keep up the awesome comments!!!

CattyGirl said...

Wow - another lag alleviation!

CattyGirl said...

We have alot to say - don't we?

JoAnn said...

yeah.. 4th?

JoAnn said...

Something I have been thinking about....
In previous seasons when we saw the others, they were barefoot and in raggity clothes but in the village at the time of the crash, they are nicely dressed. So then, 40 something days later, when they abducted Jack, Kate, and Sawyer and take them to the dock, they are in their dirty clothes. But now, where they are holding Jack, Kate, and Sawyer, they are in nice clothes again. Anyone have a theroy about that?

DiggityDirge said...

sup all.....some great conversations yesterday.

Going to lurk for a while. Need to get some work done and catch up on post from last night.

Thrasher76 said...

Joann - Back in season 2 Kate and Claire go to the hatch that Claire was being held captive and find a locker with costumes in it. They were the same ratty looking clothes and the fake beard.

I still beleive that Benry's group is not the "Others" but the left over DI people and the true "Others" are outcasts from the DI.

CattyGirl said...

I think the dirty clothes were a show and now only Hurley is headed back and will tell of their raggity appearance. Maybe they are so confident in keeping JKS that they went back to wearing their usual clothes and the other Losties won't be the wiser. Boy - are they mistaken! ;)

sean said...

i still want to believe benry's group is the others. its been proven that they are the ones kidnapping the kids, and bringing an entirely new group of others would complicate things even more.

CattyGirl said...

and I do agree with Thrasher that there are probably some other others who are wearing tattered clothing and lurking in the forest.

CattyGirl said...

yes Sean - it really would complicate things so the writers could go either way at any time they want.

DiggityDirge said...

Joann,

Don't want to oversimplify it. I just figured the dirty clothes were a costume to create the illusion of being desolate.

In the last epi of the season 2, Kate tells Tom that she knows his beard and costume is fake. I just figured they stopped preteding.

It also seems they others are taking some big steps to let Jake, Kate & Sawyer know that they are civilized. The beach scene with Henry, the plates and forks, grilled cheese and bottled water for Jack, and Jack's file. All things that represent a civilized world.

On antoher note, we have all talked about the kids not being anywhere in the village. Walt was also never forced to put on a costume and look desolate while captured. I am not sure why some of the kids are.

sean said...

and i think the fake dirty clothes was to fool the survivors into thinking they are not as advanced as they are. if the others came out, and they look as civilized that they are, it takes out the "threat factor." no one is going to be afraid of a bunch of suburban housewives. (except for teri hatcher.)

isibell said...

I agree with you Sean. I know we all know that there are different 'groups' of others. We've heard it in several places. But I think the 'groups' they are referring to are more like...factions with in the main unit. I mean look at the relationship between Juliet and Benry. Those two gave each other more looks over the corse of an hour than any other couple on the Island I think. I really got the feeling that most of the time Juliet was just "following orders." And it didn't always look like she liked it very much.

DiggityDirge said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
CattyGirl said...

The one scene that comes to mind is when Eko and Jin were hiding (I think it was them) and the others passed by with a child dragging a teddy bear. I don't know how that fits in with Benry's people. Were those others thinking they would run into our Losties so putting on a show?

DiggityDirge said...

I diagree about there being multiple groups of others. I beleive there may be more than one unit/branch of others, and that they operate atonimously, but not that they represent different groups with different ideals.

Here's the reason I say this:

Costumes that were found were worn by Tom/Zeke.
In the dock scene where they capture JKS&H, they are all wearing desolate clothing.
Goodwin and Ethan showed up in normal clothes at the crashes to create the illusion they were survivors. (remeber, besides the blood, both Eko & Jack's suit still looked nice immediately after the crash)
Knowledge of all the hatches and their purpose.

You also do not see all of the "others" in the civilized village. No sign of Ms Klue, or Tom's other soldier who helped with the captures. That's why I beleive they are seperated as Unit's with different goals.

blueheron13 said...

Regarding comments from Fenris and some others, I also agree that a fair amount of time has passed since the Pala Ferry scene last season and the scenes this season. It looked to me like Ben (Benry?) has healed up quite a bit. Of course, people do heal awfully fast on this island. I look forward to when TPTB reveal the source of the island's apparent healing powers.

DiggityDirge said...

CattyGirl said...
The one scene that comes to mind is when Eko and Jin were hiding (I think it was them) and the others passed by with a child dragging a teddy bear. I don't know how that fits in with Benry's people. Were those others thinking they would run into our Losties so putting on a show?

I beleive that would be the unit of Henry's group who is tasked to manage the kids. The others never know who they may run into on the island since the plane crashed, so they were the costumes to create an illusion they are not civilized. They could have been moving the kids from one camp to another and didn't want anyone to see what is really going on.

If you were Eko and Michael, and you saw some kids walking by with an adult in an oxford shirt, and the kids were carrying books and backpacks, wouldn't you have jumped them.

The look and the msytery is what makes the myth of the others so great. The benefit more from their legend then their actions.

blueheron13 said...

I also believe that there is dissention within the Others, or different factions in the group, but I think it would be too confusing at this point to have three completely separate groups of people - the Losties, Others (modern), and Others (ragged). If the overall story arc of Lost is supposed to only go 4 to 5 seasons, then at some point soon we'll have to start getting more answers than questions (I hope!), and I think introducing a new group of people would bring up too many new questions.

engineer27 said...

diggity: as I've posted a couple of times, Ms Klugh is at the book club meeting, on the couch to the right of Juliet.

Something else just occurred to me, however -- the Hydra station might not be on the island!

Jack, Kate, and Sawyer were unconscious. They could have been taken to anywhere and wouldn't know it.

(better, dennis?)

sean said...

wait...so what was kelvin. in the s2 finale, it seemed like he was part of the DI. he even said "ever since i joined the dharma initiative, it's only been 'thank you and namaste'", or something like that. i dont have the exact quote.

but the point is, that if benry's group was part of the DI, and kelvin was part of the DI, do you think benry knew about kelvin?

DiggityDirge said...

My assumption at this point is the others never plan on letting Jack, kate, & Sawyer go. They have revealed way too much about themselves and their modern lifestyle to ever let them go back. The only way the others let them go is as spy's.

I say this because the others kept the illusion with Michael that they are desolate, and Walt even said the others "are not who they say they are." I think they kept up the illusion because they never planned on keeping Michael long term. Or maybe their intentions changed after Benry was captured.

So far, the only people they have exposed themselves to are the people they plan to keep. (Jack, Sawyer, Kate, and Claire) And maybe Cindy and the other kidnapped tailees.

isibell said...

Sure. Someone was in swan hatch from the modern world after the seventy's. How do you explain the washer and dryer. Those were at least late 90's models.

blueheron13 said...

I'm assuming that Benry and all the Others were in the Pearl from time to time, so they must have known what was going on in the Swan hatch. Therefore I'm assuming that they knew about Kelvin and Desmond being down there (and later the Losties). But what the relationshiop is between Kelvin and the Others - for that, I can't even put together a logical speculation yet.

sean said...

also, this would technically make kelvin an "other."

DiggityDirge said...

engineer27 said...
diggity: as I've posted a couple of times, Ms Klugh is at the book club meeting, on the couch to the right of Juliet.

I say this with all do repsect:

I disagree. I ahve looked at the pics and have paused my Tivo on it several times and I don't beleive it is the same person.

Alot of people think Tom/Zeke was the patient in Jack's bed at the hospital also. There is also no credit for the actress who played Ms. Klugh for this episode, but the credits have been a poor source in the past.

isibell said...

Why would Benry have to go to the pearl. Isn't it somewhat logical to assume that everything has a more central observation room. After all, the pearl was just another experiment. The pile of notebooks kind of proves that.

sean said...

maybe the others who weren't at the book club meeting just went to the supermarket.

Thrasher76 said...

Sean - This is only my opinion but I think that Benry's group was the people running DI and Kelvin was one of the test subjects. As were the people in the Pearl Station. Beyond the scientific testing THF was doing I think they were also into psychological testing as well. It is just my conspirispie theory.

CattyGirl said...

DiggityDirge said...
My assumption at this point is the others never plan on letting Jack, kate, & Sawyer go. They have revealed way too much about themselves and their modern lifestyle to ever let them go back.

Exactly what I was trying to say. Only show themselves to the people they are 'keeping'.

blueheron13 said...

I have a feeling that Ms. Klugh and Alex are wherever the children are being kept (assuming the children have not been converted into fish biscuits).

DiggityDirge said...

I'm not sure how aware of Kelvin the others are because (dont think this is a spoiler but will spoil it anyway)

*****Possible SPOILER*****









In the preview for next weeks epi that aired after eopi 1, Benry doesn't seem to know that they have a sailboat.









*****END SPOILER****

CattyGirl said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
sean said...

i think tptb wouldn't want to show klugh at the book club meeting. during the meeting, we didnt know they were the others yet. if klugh was there, it would have revealed that they were the others.

belly0fdesire said...

Good morning everyone... I'm still alive and kickin'... saw Scoutpost questioning if I was lurking in the last post... yes... I'm here and lurking most of the time. I'm on a lot of time-sensitive projects at work and really haven't had time for much fun :/ ...I'm still hangin' around and lurking tho.

CattyGirl said...

DiggityDirge - I had the same comment along with... If there is a central observation room, is there sound?

engineer27 said...

DiggityDirge said...
I don't beleive it is the same person.


Maybe an insider will clear it up for us someday... until then, I guess we'll disagree.

A lot of people think Tom/Zeke was the patient in Jack's bed at the hospital

Do you mean the one that he was distracted from when his father got a phone call? I'll have to go watch again...

Regarding whether Benry's others kept tabs on goings-on at the Swan, I would say they must have been or they wouldn't have known that Michael was at the computer and ready to receive messages from "Walt". If the camera picture was beamed to the Pearl station, it could be beamed elsewhere, too.

CattyGirl said...

engineer27 and DiggityDirge, you have my interest spiked - I have to go look for ms. klugh now.

isibell said...

She was the woman at the book club with corn rows in her hair...right?

blueheron13 said...

Good points...I'd forgotten a moment about the capsule dump. The Pearl was probably just another experiment station, but the signal from the Swan was probably beamed to another location as well.

MEGS:) said...

I unfortunately, didn't record the episode. Was Ms. Klugh there?

sean said...

benry could have picked up the feed that was meant for the pearl station. and had it rerouted.
just like stealing cable.

Thrasher76 said...

Megs:) - Watch out there is a train coming!!!


YUM!!! Fish Biscuits!!!!

MEGS:) said...

Thanks for the concern, Thrasher. :)

RyaNDrumZ said...

Hey Belly!!!, Glad to see ya man...Don't worry...IT'S FRIDAY!!!

DiggityDirge said...

There is an African America Woman in the book club. There is only one so it shouldn't be hard to tell which person people think she is.

I also looked at the pics at Lost-media. The overall consensus is people will disagree. Between Lost-media, the fuselage, and this site, everyone is about 50/50.

sean said...

megs, you didnt take that picture by the "L" train tracks in canarsie, did you?

MEGS:) said...

Sean, does that look like Canarsie?
It was in Massachusetts. I don't remember exactly where.

Dennis said...

From the previous comments...

Fenris said...Kate has what appears an obvious missing time chunk from what we saw (I know a lot of people have been talking about this). My theory is that the first few episodes will be like the first few of Season 2 where we'll see the time period from different perspectives.

maven said...But she obviously didn't eat any of the goodies Ben offered her. She was hungry and eagerly accepted the fish biscuit.

I think there is a big chunk of time missing between breakfast and when she got put in the cage next to Saywer. She probably DID eat breakfast, but now it is much later in the day and she's probably hungry again. We know something happened to her in that time, since she is scraped up and a little shaken up.

Based on what happend to Jack and Sawyer, maybe they quizzed her on her life story which would explain why she is shaken up. And/or they let her "try" to escape and her re-capture would explain the scraped wrists.

sean said...

no. it doesnt look like canarsie. i just had to ask. :)

on a relevant note: if klugh was in the book club, she would be hard to spot. remember, the book club scene was before we knew they were the others.

MEGS:) said...

Well, it seemed like the others were coming out of different houses. Benry was in a different house than the book club. So Klugh didn't have to be there.

sean said...

yeah, but megs, benry wouldn't be part of the book club. it seemed like there was a lot of tension between benry and juliet. benry even said "i guess this means im out of the book club, huh?"

MEGS:) said...

Yeah, Sean. But for Benry to say that, that would mean he would have to be in the book club in the first place.

MEGS:) said...

BTW, Sean. You came up with Benry?

sean said...

well, maybe benry was part of the book club, but just didn't come in that day. i dont know. its probably not important.
but i did come up with benry.

MEGS:) said...

Hmm. I like it. Clever. "Benry." It seems so simple.

sean said...

megs, im sorry i have to leave you alone here, but i have to get going.
ill speak to you, and everyone else later.

MEGS:) said...

Bye, Sean.

Thrasher76 said...

Sean came up with Benry and I came up with Benrytown!!

MEGS:) said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
CattyGirl said...

It is funny how people think alike. As soon as the espisode ended, I turned to my husband laughing and said, 'great, now he is Benry Gale'

engineer27 said...

About Kelvin, keep in mind that he was in the first Gulf War in 1991 intimidating Sayid, so he wasn't at the Swan until later.

DI has been going on since 1980 (or so we are led to believe).

(adds some italics to keep dennis happy)

MEGS:) said...

Benrytown. Good too. I still don't understand why we just don't call him Ben.

MEGS:) said...

Not to answer my own question, but I guess it's transitional. We've been calling him Henry all this time. Suddenly to change that to Ben would be difficult.

Dennis said...

DiggityDirge said... There is an African America Woman in the book club. There is only one so it shouldn't be hard to tell which person people think she is.

I also looked at the pics at Lost-media. The overall consensus is people will disagree. Between Lost-media, the fuselage, and this site, everyone is about 50/50.


Here are some pictures of the lady at the book club:

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=74538&fullsize=1
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=74536&fullsize=1

And Ms. Clue from Live Together, Die Alone:

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=71178&fullsize=1
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=71460&fullsize=1

I'm still undecided... but how many black women with corn-rows could they have in the camp?

MEGS:) said...

That could be Klugh. It's hard to recognize her without the grungy clothes.

engineer27 said...

I'll stick with my original assessment: Bea is a Stephen King fan.

Henry --) Fake-Henry --) Fenry
+ Ben
= Benry

There is just no other option. Even Speaker has signed on.

isibell said...

Not Ms. Klugh. Look at the shape of the lips and the eyebrow ridges. Different woman...I'm sure.

Not that my opinion really makes a difference.

Dennis said...

sean said... well, maybe benry was part of the book club, but just didn't come in that day. i dont know. its probably not important.
but i did come up with benry.


At the very beginning, it looks like Juliete was crying, and was "composing" her self to get ready for the book club. She was playing the music to make herself feel better.

Ben was obviously in the Book Club because Adam says he didn't like the book and says "Now I know why Ben isn't here." He thinks it because of the book selection, but it's because he wasn't invited by Juliete.

When Ben sees her with the book after the plane crashes, he says "So I guess I'm out of the book club" .... Maybe Ben and her had a fight or recenly broke up. I'm sure we'll find out soon. There is definitely some tension between them.

tlcm said...

maybe the reason Benri thought the swan station was a joke was because he had been to the pearl and knew about the notebooks and since that experiment wasn't real he surmised the swan was of no importance.

just a thought

engineer27 said...

I'm still not sure what to make of the pile of notebooks... If they had been there for years, they should have deteriorated. But if the Pearl station was used that recently, by whom and why?

tlcm's comment got me speculating again.

Fenris said...

Contiuing the lost time discussion: There is a lot here that seems to point to the fact that a lot more time has passed with our losties since they got to the Others camp then is implied directly by the actual scenes. There is definetly something odd going on there.

I've come to this late so excuse me if I go over something covered much earlier.

Also it's come to my attention another of the shots on ABC didn't happen in the show. Early on there is a shot of Kate at the beach table being flanked by Tom and another Other. Looks like she is being about to be forcably taken somewhere. Could be meaningless, but it seems to add weight to the idea that something bad happened to Kate between the beach and the cage.

tlcm said...

the notebooks weren't deteriorated because they were all in the vacuum tubes. the question is where did all those vacuum containers come from and why didn't they run out of them in the pearl if no one was sending back the empties?

Dennis said...

This is mostly off topic... oh wait...

***** MOSTLY OFF TOPIC ******

Does any one watch Prison Break? There was a website mentioned in the show recently - http://europeangoldfinch.net/.

I'm not sure if they are trying to do an ARG like Lost, but it looks like it was created by the same people who did the Retrievers Of Truth website.

***** MOSTLY OFF TOPIC OFF ******

Fenris said...

Also, Tom said Kate wasn't his type. Now assuming there isn't actually a straight guy that wouldn't find Kate attractive, that means he is either gay, which is entirely possible and ultimately meaningless (kinda like Rose's husband being white, you may not expect it but it's hardly earth shattering) or he really believes there is some kind of taint to Kate. Something bad/wrong that makes her not his type. Like a kind of racism or genism. Perhaps Others only are sexually interested in other Others. It's interesting anyway. Maybe he was just saying it to be funny of course and he thought it sounded "cool" at the time. Lol.

Another thought, unrelated to the S3E1.

In the Javi/Hanso blog thing, Javi said that when he did the blast door map he put both stuff from Lost and stuff for the ARG in it. So now the ARG is over, if we check the map and eliminate all the stuff relating to the ARG what we have left should be better for relating to the show. Maybe worth a re-visit at some point.

Of course that's not saying there isn't red herrings still.

scoutpost said...

Hey everybody! I see the great discussions are continuing today. I haven't caught up yet, will have to do that later or this weekend- gotta start getting ready for our trip to Hawaii next week. (yeah, just thought I'd slip that in-LOL). If anyone has been- we're going to the big island/Hawaii, and has any suggestions of what to see or not to see, let me know.

Thrasher- I'm excited for you for your new job. I love Brookstone and usually shop there at holiday times- I'll remember you when I do. Going to really miss you around here all the time! And BTW-I miss Optimus Prime, too! hehe

engineer27 said...

Does anyone else think that the man in the foreground of this picture

looks like the man from the season 2 finale here?

aslanscubs said...

I haven't read through ALL of the posts but wanted to make a comment. Someone asked about the picture in the middle of the Dharma logo where Sawyer is being held. It was, of course, a hydra. It looks like Sawyer, Kate and Jack aren't being held too far apart.

isibell said...

Yep. they look VERY similar. I can't see how it would be the same person though. Unless he was...rotated off the island by whom ever is running it, and then went rogue aginst it maybe......

Dennis said...

engineer27 said... Does anyone else think that the man in the foreground of this picture looks like the man from the season 2 finale here?

I don't think so.

That would be ironic that in the few months since the plane crash, he left the DI and the island, got a job with the Widmore Corp, then he was assigned to a monitoring station, only to find the island that he was just on!

engineer27 said...

I'm thinking we don't really know the time frame of the final scene from "LTDA". We assume the incident they are tracking is the final Swan meltdown. Maybe not....

Thrasher76 said...

One last good deed as a travel agent!! This is just for you ScoutPost.

First check out these links:
Hawaii Convention & Visitors Bureau
Polynesian Cultural Center
Pearl Harbor Memorial
Discover Hawaii
Maui Visitors

Stay awake as late as possible when you get there or you will be awake at 3 am wondering what to do (TLC!!)

Learn some Hawaiian words, there are only 12 letters in the Hawaiian language.
-Lania = Balcony
-Aloha = love, hello, goodbye etc
-Mahalo = thank you
-Kane = Male
-Waihine = Female
-Malihini = Newcomer
-Keiki = Child

On your inbound flight try and get seats on the righ tside of the plane, outbound left side. Great views of the island as you land and take off.

What particular islands are you going to, I can give you specific info for each.

Don't bring back lava rocks, it is bad luck!!!!! So no stealing a'a or pahoehoe!!!

isibell said...

Myabe it wasn't the meltdown at all. Maybe the key is what caused the light to blink. We still have no idea what Desmond turning that key did, and no proof that the key and the magnet were related.

Dennis said...

engineer27 said... I'm thinking we don't really know the time frame of the final scene from "LTDA". We assume the incident they are tracking is the final Swan meltdown. Maybe not....

Well, it definitely can't be the same guy if the incident they tracked was the one that brought down the plane. Unless he can Astral Project like Walt.

JGZ350 said...

Good Afternoon all-

Doesn't the guy Sarah was with when she bailed Jack out of jail look similiar to Pickett, the other that was Zeke's right hand man in LTDA?

I've looked at the pics from the little book club meet and greet and my vote is that ii is Bee Klough.

scoutpost said...

Oooh Thrasher thanks! You're the best! We are going there because my hubby is in a tennis tourney. So we will be on Hawaii and I'm hoping to island hop to Oahu. I know everybody loves Kauai(sp?), but I don't know if we'll be able to make it there do to his tennis schedule. So info on Hawaii and Oahu is mainly what I'm looking for. Thanks again!

cyberyang said...

Hi Guys-
Quick comment.
I'm 99% sure that is NOT Ms.Klugh in the bookclub.

Thrasher76 said...

ScoutPost -

Oahu has Honolulu and Waikiki Beach. From the airport to Waikiki beach is about 25 minutes drive. I would not recomend a car rental here, there are confusing one-way streets and limited parking areas. There is a transportation company called TheBus that cost $2 per person to go anywhere on the island. To take the Pearl Harbour Tour you need to take the Navy tour, try and get passes in advance it gets booked fast and closes at 3 pm. Diamonhead Tours has the best tour for this, 1-877-589-5568 and the 630 am tour is the best. There is the Polynesian Cultural Center, I gave you the addie before, and The Iolani Palace USA's only royal palace, it was the first building int he world to have phones installed!!!

Kauai is the oldest island with the most dramatic waterfalls and cliffs. Many films have been shot here like Jurassic Park and Raiders of the Lost Ark. There is only one escalator on the entire island!!! Princeville is a big tourist spot but it rains often, especially in the afternoon. Waimea is the grand canyon of the Pacific. Mt. Wai'ale'ale is the wettest place on earth with 472 inches of rain per year. Loads of rainbows and waterfalls here. There are tons of other cool things to do on this island.

Hawaii is, well, different. Lots of lava fields that from afar look like a parking lot. Kona has the best weather and Hilo has the volcanoes. Check out the National Volcanoe Park!!! There are Orchid nurseries to check out. The Palace of Rufuge which has giant tikis to guard the palace.

I hope this helps and is somewhat informative for you!!

Dennis said...

Thrasher,

Did you go to BotCon? (http://www.botcon.com/)

It was here in Lexington, KY from Sept 27th to October 1st. I only just found out about it, or I would have asked sooner...

Thrasher76 said...

Dennis - I wish I could have made it, I foundout about it late as well and coul dnot make arangements to go. Maybe next year I will make the trip.

Midnightstrider said...

Hey everyone!

Again, I need some way to keep up with you all during the day. You guys are post-crazy!

The funniest thing happened to me in German class today! My friend was looking at my Lost cards and making fun of how nerdy I am, when this guy behind me (not at all the Lost nerd type) asked if those were Lost trading cards, then commented "and I thought I was the biggest Lost nerd ever!" Sure showed my friend, eh?

maven said...

I wonder what the record would be for number of Lag Alleviation posts? LOL You guys have been busy again

Re the discussion of rag clothes vs new clothes. I think Ben and his group of Others were putting on an act for the Losties. Walt knew the truth. Once your captured by them, they reveal their true selves. Hurley was sent back thinking they are a raggedly group living primitively. I feel that they have no intention of releasing Jack, Kate and Sawyer.

Time did go by between brunch at the beach and putting Kate in the cage. The question is how much time? I think she probably did attempt to escape even with handcuffs on. But she might have gotten the scrapes on her wrists because Ben told her to make them tighter. And she seemed very bewildered and hungry when she got to the cage. She glady took the fish biscuit.

Thrasher: Wish I was going somewhere and get such good travel service! That was very nice of you for Scoutpost! Aloha!

scoutpost said...

Thrasher- thanks again for the Hawaii info! It is very helpful. Going to really look into it this weekend.

Guess we've finally said all there is to say about the first episode huh? It only took close to 1000 comments!

boyo81 said...

Man, I loved this episode! I got so annoyed with TLE but now I can forgwt about stupid rachel blake and her non information because lost is back!! No more looking around sites I don't care about for stuff tht I don't recognise and ultimately won't like. Lost is effing king. And that's the bottom line, cos BOYO says so

Midnightstrider said...

Scoutpost- I don't think we could ever say enough about the first episode ;). Although, 1000 comments is pretty amazing!

capcom said...

OT: Does anyone know what happened to Matt the Pale's website? I can't there from anywhere now.

Vic said...

Hello.First time poster, long time lurker. Didn't know if anyone caught this, but when Jack heard voices from the communication box on the wall, did you guys happen to hear "let it go Jack", like the conversation Jack and his father were having in Jack's office..Interesting..

Caboose192 said...

Capcom, it looks like MTP's site is gone for good. :(

Codysmom said...

100th!!

LostFanatic said...

Wow guys. I tried to keep up with all the commenting flying back and forth since Wednesday night, but man oh man. It was just coming too fast to keep up with at work at all... :-) I love it.

Also I just want to say how amazing TLC group is. It's so much easier to keep the community feeling in this group than in the typical forum format. It's so cool to read through the posts and actually know the names of all of the posters. It's like a big circle of friends, and everyone is so helpful and respectful towards each other.

I'm so glad TLE came about because it led to the TLEC blogspot, which really started up a great thing that continues here.

Now that the season is back and all the regular Lost show fans who didn't get involved in TLE are back in the swing of water-cooler discussions and stuff I'm telling them all to come check out this blog because it's so far superior to the conversation on the other Lost sites. :-)

On a side note, has anything been released by TPTB with regard to whether the Lost Experience will have a revival during the season hiatus???

Codysmom said...

Capcom, yes it looks like MTP's website is gone. Too bad because I had it bookmarked (and especially liked the link to THF shutdown).

Hi and welcome, vic. Yes, I noticed the comm box voices and that it said, "let it go, Jack". Didn't that happen just as he was thinking/dreaming of that particular time in his life? The others are sure screwing around with his mind. Juliette said something about the comm box hadn't worked in years....yeah, right. Makes you wonder if the others can read minds, which would also explain how they knew so much about Jack's past.

Caboose192 said...

The comm box thing was probably because of the fact that Jack hadn't eaten/drank anything for hours. Juliet said something about how he could hallucinate. But then again, she is a sneaky Other...

maven said...

Hi, caboose and codysmom. Welcome to TLC, lostfanatic. Spread the word...this is the place to be.

I agree that the communication box was just Jack's mind playing trick's on him...most likely due to dehydration or maybe an injection of something (remember the bandaid on his arm).

Whatever happened to MattthePale?

maven said...

Also, welcome to Vic! It's great that you're in de-lurking mode now! Post once and then you can't stop. LOL

Codysmom said...

Yes, I think she is sneaky and I hate the way she and Benry talk; their placating sing-song voices as if they are dealing with first-graders in their first day of school, when in reality they are criminals.

Codysmom said...

she=Juliette

Hi, Maven!

Caboose192 said...

Hola, Maven!

: )

maven said...

I get the feeling that Ben, Juliette and the other Others are almost zombie-like, Stepford Wives-ish. I believe a lot of behaviorial programming goes on in Othertown. She even commented on free will. That is what they might be doing with Jack/Kate/Sawyer...behavior modification.

Codysmom said...

I was fooling around at the Fuselage and clicked on HansoAir and their is a new page about a lawsuit. Interesting stuff, but didn't they say that HansoAir.org was a fake site?

maven said...

Codysmom: I always thought Hansoair was a fake. This lawsuit thing is pretty elaborate, isn't it? What some people will spend their time on.
LOL

Codysmom said...

Maven, yes, I think it must be fake, but fun if it wasn't...I guess I'm still missing TLE :)

maven said...

Yes, I do miss all the constant discussion around the clock during the good old days of TLE. There will probably be a long lull from Friday night until next Wednesday now. :(

Amused2bHere said...

Anyone still here? Just checking...

Amused2bHere said...

I guess not. Well, just so it's here for the morning:

Re: Jack and being underwater. That door Jack opened couldn't have directly led to the ocean. If you think about what purpose such a door would have served in its original use, then that door must have led originally to a decompression chamber that could be emptied of water, opened so researchers in diving suits could enter, sealed and flooded, and then another door opened to allow them to enter the ocean. Perhaps to set Jack up they flooded the antechamber so there would be a rush of water, making him think it was an inescapable underwater hatch.

does this make sense to anyone else?

ewktd said...

I agree with you, amused. I don't think that Jack would be able to close the door with the weight of the ocean behind it. The pressure would have been too great. I believe this was set up to break Jack's will down.

Crossfade said...

Good morning LoCo!

maven said...

Just saying good morning all!

I have a strange feeling that it's going to be very quiet around here for the next few days (especially on the weekends now).

amused2behere and ewktd: I agree that Jack's escape attempt was a setup. Something Ben/Juliett "allowed" so that they could continue to break Jack's will and see the futility of his situation,and they could control his mind. Two words: behavior modification.

lostfanboy said...

I agree with that too.

Houses_Vicodin said...

All I know for sure is that the Others are so... calm... it's scary. Benry Gale and Juliet are so serene... do you think they are the DeGroots?

maven said...

houses vicodin: Othertown seems very Stepford Wive-ish to me. Everyone there seems very creepy and calm. They almost talk in a sing song voice, like they're always talking down to a child. Definitely don't think they're the DeGroots. It has been speculated that the DeGroot's died and were the Adam and Eve skeletons in the cave. Also, the ages aren't even close!

(BTW: Very interesting username!)

capcom said...

Thanks for the answer about MTP's site. But for that matter, where is MTP the human? I don't think that he has been around since the DJDan podcast, has he? He was always a lively contributor.

Well, have a nice weekend everyone! All of your comments on S3:1 are great. :-)

capcom said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
capcom said...

Maven, agreed. Othertown seems very cultish. And you know....that's the way a lot of the 60's Hippie Utopias were set up to be too. If Othertown is indeed an offshoot of the D.I. model, that may be what's happening there. :-p I'd bet that there are lots of laws and rules about not raising one's voice so as not to be a "downer" to another member's utopian high. :-D Or, maybe they are just trying to be logical scientist types. Although, that annoying whiney guy at the bookclub meeting didn't seem to care about acting like a jerk. So maybe the more "mature" Othertown members are better at it. The guy at the bookclub should get some commmunal demerits and have to slop the pigs for an extra week or something as punishment for his un-Spock-like outburst.

2costa said...

the hatch door that jack opened in the shark/elephant was probably to a decompression hatch. If it was directly leading to a body of water he couldnt have managed to close it...I think the way they were talking about Benry in the bbok club pooints to the fact that he is the supreme leader of the others at least on the island. I havent read all the comments, but did anyone touch on the fact that benry and folks might be engineering the virus for mittlewerk. Perhaps they are trying to isolate the good gene or the bad gene to engineer a virus that will kill people with the bad gene to leave a world of just goddies to thwart the valanzetti equation. It also seems like ethan may have been blondies husband/boyfreind...

2costa said...

the question remains do the others have contact to the outside world(death certificate) and do they know about everyone or just jack?

2costa said...

I wonder why they edited the scene with sawyer, in the preview scene he already knows karl when he gets shocked by the cage, but in the real episode he doesn't learn karls name til after the escape attempt. Perhaps they wanted to leave their options open with karl origens and motivations...

LostFanatic said...

Happy Saturday everyone.

The dynamics of the Others may have been a Utopian society, or it may not. Since we only saw a moment of their lives pre-Losties we don't yet know. For a society to really be Utopia everyone has to be living in bliss. No war, no famine, no struggles. Well, as soon as the Plane crashed and they went to war against the Losties that broke up their happy simple existence.... however, we know that even before the plane crashed onto their island some things were already taking them out of Utopia.

Even setting aside all the other Others that might have been running around that Island. In the first five minutes we already see a dynamic within just their group that mirrors all natural societies... which probably means they weren't as Utopic as they would like to believe.

In any society you see a hierarchal structure of the Leader and the followers. Benry is the obvious leader, the only problem is that whenever you have a defined or self-imposed leader you're going to have 3 kinds of people under their reign... 1) the rebels, 2) the suck-ups, and 3) the calm go-along’ers.

I think from S3E1 we can surmise that Juliet is a type 1. She's happy to voice her mind, she's not afraid to make choices against the 'boss' figure. We see this by the fact she picked a book Benry wouldn't approve of, and she was quite vocal to the other guy about being able to exert her free will. How this will unfold is yet to be known, but she has the potential to be a true rebel who undermines the system, or not. Only TPTB know for sure :-). Also, the kid in the cage next to Sawyer may be a type 1 as well, or he may be a plant. I'm excited to find out.

Clearly Adam, the other guy who complained about the book choice and referenced Ben falls under type 2. Clearly he follows the mantra 'if Ben says it is good, it is good.' Other type 2's are Ethan and Goodwin. They both jumped like trained little puppies at Benry's barked orders. Plus we already know they are devout followers by their behavior in previous episodes while they were imbedded.

The rest of the Others seem thus far to be type 3's. Easy to go through their normal routines following Benry, but with the potential to change their allegiance if given the right motivation.

I can not wait to see how the dynamics of the Others unfolds as the season progresses.

capcom said...

That HansoAir site is fairly amusing.....or maybe my TLE-jones is still strong enough to affect my better judgement. :-(

capcom said...

All true, Lostfanatic, and good assessment of the Othertownies, etc.

And of course, a true Utopia is a place where everyone is happy. Which is impossible, when free will is allowed. That's the thing about most of the DeGroot-era communes, they called themselves Utopias of a sort, but most actually ended up being cult-farms where only the leaders were happy and the rest of the members were like worker-bees who had no say in anything. They were not very democratic. That's why -- surprsie, surprise -- none (of the 60s models) still exist to this day, as far as we know.

I don't know if we've seen enough of Othertown to know how democratic its structure might be. But considering how Juliet sneaked in a book of her own liking, in rebellion as you said, with Benry out of the way at the bookclub meeting, perhaps it is not very democratic. Maybe that's the only time she gets to do what she wants, i.e., when she can sneak it in under the Benry radar.

You're right, if TPTB show a lot more of the dynamics of the member relations of the commune, it will be very interesting.

scoutpost said...

Hey everybody, just checking in.

capcom said...
Thanks for the answer about MTP's site. But for that matter, where is MTP the human? I don't think that he has been around since the DJDan podcast, has he? He was always a lively contributor.

Matt never watched LOST- he only played the ARG- ARG's are his hobby. As far as I know he's gone on to play another ARG right now called Cathy's Book. He heard about TLE and decided to play even though he never watched the show. I don't expect to see him around here, although if another LOST ARG forms he said he would be back to play.

Passafist said...

Hey Gang! In case you missed it in the last few days......

In Reguards to the TLC PODCAST!!

Send me your short mp3 comments on this wednesday's episode of lost. Send the comments (or if you can't record mp3's, an e-mail which we may discuss) to passafistwastaken@gmail.com referring to anything about Wednesday's episode, or ongoing discussion in the comments. (I'm not going to set a time limit on audio files but if you can't say it in less than 5 minutes it's probably too much anyway)Please keep your comments PG- rated and I retain any rights to edit comments (for obscene content and to reduce any amount of redundancy)."

I'll be collecting comments until Sunday Morning 9am(EST). It's my hope that the podcast will edited and up on the tuesday before the next the episode. Make your post fun and interesting, cosider this more than just a run of the mill podcast, consider it a way for everybody in the TLC to get to know you. Don't forget to start your comments out with your name......

This is a big test! If this podcast is successful (meaning I get a bunch of comments, and it seems like everybody really is interested in continuing it) I'll probably continue to do it. If not no harm, no foul. WORD UP AND GOD BLESS!! NAMASTE!!

I've got my co-host lined up and we record sunday afternoon! I have my buddy at groundzero recording doing some liners for me, all I need is some more personal content from you guys. I really want this podcast to be TLC focused! So at the very least shoot me an e-mail about what you thought about the episode, what you liked, what you hated, what could have been done better, ask any questions you might have. I'm also going to use the ABC.com video podcast which I thought had some really awesome hints in it. Unlike the board I think the podcast will also ba a place to discuss potential spoilers, and how they may play out, we won't ruin the show for anyone but how can we avoid the elephants in the room. WORD UP!

Sara said...

In re: Speculation as to how much Ben and the others know about the Swan --- Remember the end of the finale of last season, when that big noise happened and the sky turned purple? Ben looked ROYALLY pissed when that happened, as if he knew EXACTLY what was going on. Assuming that the Others are some sort of offshoot or leftover of the DI, and that Ben is in his high position because he was at one point PART of the DI (which seeems to be likey, in my eyes), then I think he knows *exactly* what was going on.

Also, I don't know where the idea came from that more time has passed since Jack, Kate and Sawyer's capture. After all, we saw them wake up in three separate, strange rooms, wearing the same clothes, and looking generally disoriented. It makes more sense, to me at least, that we caught up with them right after they were taken back to their camp... probably walked until they were close, bags on their heads, and then injected with something to make them pass out. While they were out, blood was drawn, their records were gathered, and their individual plans made. Then they were dropped in their respective rooms/showers/cages (heheh, fish biscuit).

If Rousseau has been on the island since 1988 (the show's still in 2004, right?), and we KNOW the Dharma Initiative had been operable at some point in the 1980s (as the two orientation videos we've seen on the show were both copyrighted 1980), then I think it's more than plausible that these Others are just the DI v2.0. Maybe they're no longer under Hanso supervision (or maybe Hanso thinks they'r defunct, and they're not), or maybe they're just the people who were running the experiment and refused to take "No" for an answer when they were told it was being shut down. Either way, we know a couple things about them:
1. They are very, VERY, interested in children, the younger the better. So far all of their attacks on the Losties have had to do with kids in some way.

2. Their purpose seems to be largely psychological.

3. They saw the plane crash as an opportunity to be taken advantage of. So either their funding is gone, or they're looking for a way off the island themselves. Since they don't seem to be trying to get off (they have a boat, which they gave to Michael, and a way to get rescued since they pointed Michael and Walt in that direction, and they seem to be very angry later this season that the Lostaways have a boat), I'm leaning toward the first theory.

BarbaraJay said...

Hi, everybody! My internet service was down all week, so I've spent the last couple of days trying to catch up on the comments. I couldn't do it. So, I'm going to throw out a couple of thoughts/observations and apologize in advance if they've already been done to death.

1.) I believe we have been given a clue to Jack having been really responsible for someone's death. In a flashback, Jack was with a paient and the nurse said something like, "Do you think he's ready to self-administer?" Jack didn't respond because he was too obsessed, watching his Dad on the phone and thinking it was his wife on the other end. I think the patient died and Jack left the field of medicine to get tatoos and play poker in Thailand.

2) I also believe there was a passage of time before Jack and Kate woke up with bandaids. Why have Kate wear a dress that is so not her unless she has revealed (drugs?) that she secretly wants to be lady-like?

3) Carrie is significant because it's about a girl who has the powers of telepathy and psychokinesis ala Walt. The book also implied that the powers were genetic, skipping generations. Carrie was published in 1974, old even for 1980 DI folk.

nick's medulla said...

Vic said...
Didn't know if anyone caught this, but when Jack heard voices from the communication box on the wall, did you guys happen to hear "let it go Jack", like the conversation Jack and his father were having in Jack's office..Interesting..


This, along with his visions of his father during the first season might suggest Jack is suffering from some form of PTSD, possibly caused by a patient dying because he was distracted by the conflict with his father.

Kate and Sawyer also have pasts that might hide repressed memories and emotions...perhaps the others/DI/whatever are trying to study this, as repression would be a major concern in a utopian society

btw...i've been lurking since like week two of the ARG...finally signed up for a blogger account

capcom said...

I'm surprised that the people of Dharma/Othertown would not have read, or at least be very familiar with, a book like "Carrie" a long time ago in their various research on telekinesis and such. It was actually one of *the* books to read, during the New Age-ey rise of paranormal studies back then. Perhaps they get their reading material shipments sent over on the proverbial slow boat to China.

Scoutpost, thx for the info on Matt. His website did have links to other ARGs though, that's why I thought that it was odd that his whole site is gone. ???

maven said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
maven said...

Capcom: This was posted over at ITE;

I just wanted to say that I am still alive and well, but I'm being stalked. I'm taking care of it, so don't worry.

Posted by: MtP | October 06, 2006 at 03:31 PM

LostinFrogurt said...

Oh my god! It's been a while, hasn't it? I'm really sorry that I couldn't make it for the finale of TLE! I'll try my hardest to make it here every thursday to discuss the previous day's episode!

thinbluemime said...

Matt is being stalked?!?

I told him after DJ Dan's last podcast, that Rachel wanted his body :)

Matt, if you read this, we all hope you get this resolved, and can join us again!!!

Dr.Spongebob "Chris" Shephard said...

ok what happen to Matt??? is he being stalked

FREAKY

LockeBox said...

So, the ad campaign for S3 seems to be a lot of "Find Yourself..." and so on. However, during 03x01, we heard a lot about how the self doesn't matter, identity doesn't matter, and other things along the same existential vein (Sarah telling Jack her Mystery Man's identity doesn't matter, Juliet saying it doesn't matter who The Others used to be since the DI ended, etc.).

I don't really have a question other than any thoughts? Is there anything worth discussing here or am I just desperate for Wednesday to roll around again?

JGZ350 said...

hey there lockebox, i like your username.

I had an interesting thought as to when benry told kate that the next two weeks are not going to be pleasant. I know what the next two weeks are going to be for kate, 'induction counseling' as indicated by the infamous alvar hanso in the sir lanka video. I know, I'm reaching, but sounds good to me.

Fishbiscuits said...

Hey,

This is my first post -- though I've been lurking throughout the summer watching the game being played. Kudos to the geniuses that descoverd all the clues. Anyway, here are some of my thoughts --

I, too, thought Kate was raped or inseminated (or worse) by Benry. As horrible as it may be. That breakfast on the beach smacked of a psycho date. They are into the whole kid thing. More little non-others to experiment on?

And in terms of creating a time line as to when things were received on the island they had a pretty modern ketchup bottle on that breakfast table.

The music at the begining of the show (Downtown) reminded me of the swank sixties music heard when we first opened the hatch (Make Your Own Kind of Music.)

What if Juliet and Benry are brother and sister. Maybe the McGroot kids?

Now could someone explain to me how that electromagnetic reaction could pull a plane out of the sky but not disturb the quite yet creepy little enclave of the Others (or presumed Others). I would think everything metal (including the burnt muffin pan) would go flying towards the hatch.

I love you guys. Keep up the good work!

LostFanatic said...

Fish biscuits, that's an excellent point about the electro magnetic pulse. If indeed that did bring down the plane, then it should have had a significant impact on Othertown as well.

I'm curious what the overall state of the Losties camp will be when we finally see that next week. In the season 2 finale we saw the hatch door land like a projectile bomb after the whole hatch was demolished. If that was indeed the result of the magnetic pulse I wonder what if any wierd magnetic issues the overall Losties camp experienced.

thinbluemime said...

EMP and how the plane could have been brought down without affecting other metal objects
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.lost/msg/3e24242b698888db

thinbluemime said...

"A Tale of Two Cities" is most interesting read in light of the Lost story line.

Complete and free mp3 download here:
http://literalsystems.org/abooks/index.php/Audio-Book/ATaleOfTwoCities

More T2C links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Tale_of_Two_Cities

"“Recalled to Life,” ..... Mr. Lorry dozes restlessly, reflecting upon his mission, “to dig some one out of a grave” who has been “buried alive for eighteen years.”

Fishbiscuits said...

Thanks thinbluemime for the google link on emp but I still have a question:

"An EMP can also be generated without a nuclear explosion, enough to cripple electrical equipment, yet leave any physical structures or organic beings untouched."

"Physical structures" that aren't necessarily metal, right? So why no metal flying in the Other's neighberhood. And are you also saying that maybe the reason the plane flew into the island was not so much from the electro magnetic pull but from the effect the EMP had on the onboard computer?

Also, someone mentioned (about 300 posts ago) that Juliet was pregnant??? Really? I totally missed that.

maven said...

If anyone's interested: The AMEX Lost site has some new "Missing Moments". A lot of the stills from the episode relate to all the discussion here. They're calling Othertown "Otherville". LOL

You can type in any name and use this tollfree #800-964-8542 (from my card)

Amused2bHere said...

Re the interest in children:
check this out
http://tinyurl.com/qj927
"Developmental considerations in testing children for ESP - Extrasensory perception"

It has been noted in ESP research that children have a greater flexibility in their ability to learn some of the parasychological arts.

Asimov's Second Foundation, anyone?

Totengraber said...

Hey Y'all,

I recon that The Hydra ain't on the big Island. At the end of S3 theyus on that dock an give Michael the little patrol boat. Them Others must have a ferry boat to take 'em to The Hydra. Ol' Mark was talkin' bout a ferry in that Pearl Station video. Or maybe Thars a an under water tunnel with little golf carts in it, like in a spy movie. That's why The Hydra ain't on Kelvin's Blast Door Map.

Fish Biscuits and Beer, Breakfast of Champeens!

Totengraber said...

OOPS

Fish Biscuits and kibble and warm water outa a garden hose.

:p

Amused2bHere said...

More random musings:

Juliet, Ben, Adam, Tom. So far only first names.

Ethan Rom, Bea Klugh. Full names.

Goodwin. Only a last name, even by his own people. What, his first name is Gale?

what about Mr.Eko? No last name for him either...

Amused2bHere said...

Totengrabber, I love your avatar!

capcom said...

Yikes, thanks Maven on the MtP info. Have to keep him in our prayers. That is a very unpleasant thing to experience.

Fish; Benry and Juliet as syblings....good call. Would explain their seemingly immature attitude towards each other. Like, "Mom always liked you best." Or, "I know are but what am I." :-) I kind of got that sort of childish vibe from them.

JGZ350 said...

hey maven,
thanks for the update on the amex lost site. have you found anyting of interest yet?

maven said...

Morning all:

jgz350: You're welcome. Nothing exciting on the AMEX site as far as I can tell. Just stills from the epi.

thinbluemime said...

During the ARG, just prior to the first DJ Dan call in, a rehearsal feed was recorded that was not meant to be broadcast. The rehearsal included "Talking in Tongues" gibberish by the DJ Dan crew.

I would REALLY like a copy of this recording for my research.

I think Matt the Pale and others may have recorded it.

If anyone can point me to a URL, torrent, or anywhere I can download this, I would really appreciate it.

Midnightstrider said...

Morning everyone!
thinbluemime - I would love to hear that as well! If you get ahold of it, could you let me know?

thinbluemime said...

midnightstrider, Yes, I will.
In the meantime, I went back thru TLEC and dug this info up:

Crux said...

I just found that I recored the crazy "talking in tongues" song from last night. I can email it to anyone that wants it, or to someone that can host it.
8/13/2006 12:32:05 AM
http://thelostexperienceclues.blogspot.com/2006/08/clue-103-dj-dan-audio-message-from.html


CRUX are you still lurking???

Midnightstrider said...

thinbluemime - Thanks a bunch!

Crux - We need you, man!!

FYSB said...

Happy Sunday everyone!

I rewatched the premiere and noticed two things that hadn't ocurred to me earlier.

I'm sure I've just missed it, but I did not see a Lostie cameo in Jack's flashback. Was it there?

The second is...did we actually see Sawyer do something for someone else, voluntarily, unselfishly and without being asked? Granted, it was just a stinkin' fish biscuit, but he gave it to Kate willingly.

And dang it, I was going to record something for Passafist's podcast and just realized I missed the deadline. Passafist, if you're out there, please keep doing them!

BarbaraJay said...

A wee bit off-topic:

Yesterday I went to an open house at the Chesapeake Biological Labs, a marine biology research center. (Yes, I am a geek.) They were having a contest to name the polar bear that destroyed their equipment in the Arctic Circle. The prize is a stuffed polar bear. I entered the name, Sawyer. Let's see if these scientists are Lost fans.

dolenore said...

Fishbiscuits said...
So why no metal flying in the Other's neighberhood. And are you also saying that maybe the reason the plane flew into the island was not so much from the electro magnetic pull but from the effect the EMP had on the onboard computer?

Alright, drawing from what I remember in Physics class: magnets attract iron. Aircraft are constructed of aluminum and fiberglass, both non-magnetic. The plane did not crash because of the magnetic build up, it crashed because of the EMP discharge that fried the circuitry.

That being said, we know that Otherville is about one mile from the tail section landing (based on a 7 minute mile and Goodwin walking out of the treeline 5-10 minutes after the crash). What we dont know is in what direction from the crash site. I would imagine there are mountains in the line of sight between the Swan and Otherville, which would dampen the initial magnetic pull before the EMP. Any time you place non-metalic objects between two magnets, the attraction is reduced, and given enough interference, even a magnet the size of the Swan station may not affect the muffin pan (which probably is not steel or iron anyway).

And if this explination isn't to your liking, there is always the possibility that most of their metal items would be bolted down (in the case of the zoo bars and hot water tanks) or made of non-magnetic materials such as nickel, brass or aluminum. Especially if they knew there was still a chance of the Swan meltdown some day.

thinbluemime said...

fysb, Sawyer sacrificed his gun stash, by revealing it's location so Libby could have pain meds. Sawyer has been hurt. Sawyer has build a high wall to his heart, but he still has a heart.

capcom said...

Dolenore, thanks for the EMP facts, very true. Although as someone said, there could be underground tunnels running from Otherville to other areas of the island (similar to the tunnels on the Hatchmap), so we can't really calculate Goodwin's and Ethan's speed running skills just yet.

Didn't the camera pan-back in the beginning of the show reveal that there was indeed a hill or mountain of a sort in between the crashes and Othertown? It also showed the relation between the locations of Othertown, the Tailies, and Fusie crashes (albeit by smoke only). A sort of long range visual triangulation.

And I can't for the life of me understand why Rousseau, after 16 years of wandering around the island, didn't ever see Othertown! I have to go back and check out her map again, maybe there is something incoherent written there that we would not have noticed before now, knowing about Othertown. OR, maybe she has been an Other-with-a-fake-story all along, and she was a part of the set-up of "catching" Benry. I find it difficult to believe now,that he could be that reckless to be caught by her. Even if she was a dupe in his plan, that's a weird way to go about getting into the hatch, there could be simpler ways of getting caught. So her "shooting" him makes it much more plausible to Sayid's eyes, if she were an Other. Or, I could be wrong. :-)

dolenore said...

capcom said...
And I can't for the life of me understand why Rousseau, after 16 years of wandering around the island, didn't ever see Othertown!

Well, she did once say the "Dark Territory" was where the Others came from... and that after he crew got "sick", she never went back. I imagine that Othertown would be located in Dark Territory...

of course, when the Losties went to Black Rock, Rousseau said they were entering Dark Territory, and I dont think they were anywhere near the tail crash site / Othertown at that time.

capcom said...

Delenore, oh yes, that's right. Hmm, still have to revisit that map though.

dolenore said...

Oh, and one more thought about Rousseau... who said she didn't find Othertown? She isn't looking for the Others, she seems to know where they are.

What she is looking for is Alex. I didn't see Alex, Ms Klugh or any of the captives from the tail section in the few scenes we saw of Othertown.

Rousseau is more than likely aware of Othertown, but is looking for the specific station the captives and the "tattered Others" call home.

Passafist said...

fysb,

Me and my co-host Steve who I think I have turned into a TLC memeber just finmished recording the podcast!! I"m going to spend most of monday editing it and should be ready to post it monday afternoon. But don't worry feel free to send me an e-mail, we had so much fun doing the podcast we're going to do another one, so get ready to tear apart episode 2. WORD UP GUYS!!!

Passafist said...

ohh!!! My e-mail for MP3 comments were passafistwastaken@gmail.com

scoutpost said...

Passafist- I wanted to send something for the podcast, but I don't have a microphone and am up to my neck in stuff I've got to do before going out of town- but I am definitely interested in the podcast and hope you keep on doing them. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute in a couple of weeks.

Off topic- my husband notified me that he's not planning on bringing his computer to Hawaii! What?! I mean I'm excited about all the time we'll have together w/o kids, but can I survive no TLC for a week? Maven, how'd you do it for 3? Oh well, you know if you don't hear from me for epi 2- you'll know why.

Midnightstrider said...

Dolenore - I don't know, camcom may be on to something with the "Rousseau may be an other" theory. My reason, why isn't Alex overly excited about getting back to her mother? Obviously, no one in Otherville is her parent. It seems kind of foolish for her not to try and get back to her real mother.

I also don't think Rousseau is the type to think strategically. I can see her right in the middle of the Others, fighting it out with her shotgun to get her child back, not sitting back and waiting for knowledge to come to her. Any mother’s natural reaction would be to charge right in their get their baby back, no matter what the cost. She’s been there for 16 years, it's almost imposable for her not to have found Otherville. If she’s so desperate to get Alex back, why isn't she there fighting for her.

I also have a question about the Black Rock. Your EMP theory makes an incredible amount of sense, but the Black Rock is made of wood. How did it get there?

Passafist - Can't wait to hear the podcast!

thinbluemime said...

midnightstrider
"Black Rock is made of wood" HIGH tide or Tsunami or a thousand other ways. This island is volcanic, as revealed for sure from last weeks episode showing the othertown situated inside a crater.

Volcanos make for interesting topography. Geological changes probably have ocurred many times over the last century or two.

capcom said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
capcom said...

Yes, what Midnight and TBM said about Rousseau and the Black Rock. I also am making my guess about her based on what I remember seeing, or not seeing, in the English translations on her map, which I would have surfed up by now but I'm kind of sick today and not up to it. And if she knew about Othertown, it seems she could have used the opportunity to creat an army with the new Losties and the dynamite to blast Alex out of there, or do it herself at somepoint in 16 years. But that's just my crazy imagination free-associating again.

TPTB could just be making Rousseau act weird and nonsensical just to drive us nutty or off the track. :-) I'll concede to that any day.

Good luck on your podcast, Passafist!

Administrator said...

thinbluemime & midnightstrider...

HERE IS THE DJDAN REHEARSAL

Fishbiscuits said...

Thanks dolenore and camcom for your emp explanation of thinbluemime's original explanation. I'll stop worrying about the muffin pan.

I'm starting to think that The Others -- all of them -- are the grown up kids that the Dharma folks used for their psychological and telekinetic experiments. It would kind of explain why they so diligently defend and protect all the different and crazy protocols of the island, why there are different groups and levels of them (the Suburban Others vs The Savages) -- and why no one ever thinks to get the hell off the island and go back to Manhattan. I don't know. They all seem like little kids, not knowing any other way of life but also resenting having to keep it up.

It reminds me of a made for TV musical from the 50's called Evening Primrose where people live in a department store after hours. One girl remembers what it's like on the outside and wants to get out but the penalty for leaving the store is mannequin death -- literally, if you're caught, they turn you into a mannequin.

I digress -- but the dogged purpose of The Others is compelling. It also kind of parallels the Losties -- what are they ultimately playing at now? Why doesn't Jack tell Juliet simply: "I don't care about your crazy hatch. I just want to go home." I think it's because it's not about going home anymore -- it's about the stakes of whatever reality you find yourself in. It's like on reality tv shows when the people forget the cameras are on them they get caught up in the paradigm.

capcom said...

Good points Fish. I especially did not understand when Zeke said to Jack, Sawyer and Locke that this was their (the Others) island, why on earth the Losties didn't say, "Well, hell, you tell us how to get off this nutjob island and we'll leave and go home!" Kind of weird. At that point the Losties did not know that there was no way out. And besides, Zeke, et.al. also did not have to blow up the raft, they could have let it float back to the island like Desmond did. So many Qs.

P.S. Have fun in Hawaii Scoutpost, we will miss you. Bring back some Hawaiian Lostie swag!! :-)

thinbluemime said...

Administrator said...HERE IS THE DJDAN REHEARSAL
Thanks David. Unfortunately I think I already have that rehearsal podcast. The one I was looking for doesnt seem widely published. It includes "Speaking In Tongues" by the DJ Dan podcast crew and was very early in the first podcast rehearsal. :(

maven said...

Scoutpost: Aloha! and have a great time. I was having Tresbien email me with updates to TLE (of course, I didn't miss much with that stupid glyph hunt going on while I was gone). At least you can tape LOST (or maybe watch it in the room). Of course you'll miss all the great comments here and we'll miss you, too!

Passifist: Sorry I didn't get in anything to you for the podcast. Sounds like you're having a great time with it. And thanks for doing it! (Maybe I'll email you something.)

dolenore said...

midnightstrider said...

I also have a question about the Black Rock. Your EMP theory makes an incredible amount of sense, but the Black Rock is made of wood. How did it get there?


EMP would have nothing to do with the Black Rock's fate. Taken from Lostpedia: The Black Rock disappeared in 1881, on a return voyage from a gold mining operation in the South Indian Ocean. Long before electricity... much less electromagnetic pulses.

dolenore said...

midnightstrider said...
My reason, why isn't Alex overly excited about getting back to her mother?

Well, if you remember, if we can believe Rousseau's story about losing Alex, the Others took her when she was less than a month old (less than a week in fact, if I remember correctly). Odds are pretty good she was raised as one of them and has no idea that she's "adopted".

Midnightstrider said...

Dolenore- While that may be true, if you knew the people you lived with were not your parents, and your mother was out there somewhere, would you not attempt to find her?

Admin- Sweet! Thanks for the link. Still have to find "Speaking In Tongues" though ;).

Administrator said...

midnightstrider and thinbluemime,

Sorry I couldn't help. I already searched the tlec gmail archives and nobody ever sent the speaking in tongues portion to us.

I'll keep an eye out and ask around.

thinbluemime said...

Thanks David,
My interest with the audio of the DJ Dan crew speaking in tongues was roused by the most recent episode of Lost, when a "Talking Heads" album titled "Speaking in Tongues" was shown.

If you come across it, that would be great. But if you dont, I still appreciate all you do for us.

FYSB said...

reposting b/cuz i'm curious...was there a lostie cameo in jack's flashback that i missed?

thinbluemime said...

fysb, if there was, I missed it also.

FYSB said...

thanks thin blue. so....either that was a first...or there was a cameo we haven't recognized yet?

dolenore said...

Midnightstrider said...
Dolenore- While that may be true, if you knew the people you lived with were not your parents, and your mother was out there somewhere, would you not attempt to find her?

Yes, absolutely. If I knew I was not living with my real family I most definately would be trying to track them down. My point, though, is that it is unlikely that she does know her family is fake... I don't see any reason for the Others to tell children they have assimilated that they don't actually belong.

Amused2bHere said...

Just stopping by to say hi. Only three more days to episode two!

Anyone notice that the nickname "Benry" is being used in lots of other places now? Not just on the ITE site, but other podcasts and blogs? I wonder if Sean knows what he started....heh heh

Midnightstrider said...

Dolenore- True enough. Still, I don't see why Rousseau isn't fighting for her daughther back...

Admin- Don't make me feel bad now :P. You did help!

I'm off guys. Night!

Passafist said...

Okay you've waited patiently! Here it is, the first episode of The Lost Community Podcast. It contains spoilers, and my own theories. I don't want to ruin the show for anyone so please don't listen if you don't want to be easily spoiled!!

Here's the link! I've asked admin if he can post it on the front page so we'll see. Remember if you want to take part in next weeks show, send me an mp3 or and e-mail.

passafistwastaken@gmail.com

Sorry maven I couldn't get your comments into this podcast but I promise to read them at the top of next weeks show!! WORD UP!!!

Passafist said...

Oops forgot the link.....

http://www.archive.org/download/LostCommunity_Podcast/Podcast01.mp3

InEnglandAndLost said...

Morning TLC - Can't wait for the next episode!!!!!!!!!!

Passafist said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Dark Angel said...

Morning all,

I've been trying to catch up but things a very at work....

I am very much of the one lot of other's camp. My feeling is that the ragged clothes, fake beards etc are all just a disguise. There are two reasons for this, firstly to scare the Losties away. It's the old Scooby Doo trick in ecesnce. They have created this whole myth of the others and spread it via Danielle (see the podcast for my thoughts on her). The others are not t so scary if they are wondering around in slacks and polo shirts!. Also if the Losties think that the others are just a bunch of raggedy castaways they might stay away but if they think that they have a level of civilisation then they are going to want to go and investigate.

With regards to Kelvin, I agree with Thrasher that he is probably just a test subject working for Dharma but completely unware of the others /othersville etc.

I think the whole Miss Klug thing is irrelevant - we saw at least 30 houses in the overhead shot which suggests there are a lot of houses and hence a lot of others. Why would they all be at a book club meeting. It's a bit like saying I can't live in Sittingbourne because I didn't go along to a meeting of a bookclub, she could have been anywhere. On a production level they would not want any recognisable others at the book club meeting and it would probably been inpractical to get all the others in the outside shot. Also would they go to cost of getting every actress/actor across to Hawaii for a second of screen time.

Don't forget as well that we are going to be seeing extended versions after the season 3 finale so we might see more of the others village and/or Kate and the handcuffs.

Strangely Othersville reminds me of where I used to live in Shetland (a small group of islands in the North Atlantic), well I mean there were no tree in Shetland but what I mean is that the houses we lived in where all built by British Petroleum and were all identical.

Anyway. I am really busy here and more importantly I need to get to lunch so I'll be back later.

InEnglandAndLost said...

Morning DA - In agreement with all of that apart from the Kelvin part. He refers to the Hostiles. This suggests he has met them or seen them and knows what they're like.

I also saw a ref to Karl/Carl. Is he a plant? we don't know if he was beaten by the others. They have make-up and costumes, maybe they made him up to look beaten for some reason.

Passafist said...

Does anybody here know how to get an RSS so I can add the podcast to itunes? I tried the xml code on Archive.org and itunes doesn't seem to like it? Just curious??

aslanscubs said...

I'm also a long-time lurker (posted a time or two during TLE). Anway, I made a comment on Friday that I'm not sure anyone responded to and would like someone's comments. I think Sawyer is being held outside of the Hydra station. Look at the Dharma logo he sees on the big pipe--it looks like a Hydra in the middle. If that's the case, Jack, Sawyer and Kate are not being held too far apart. Thoughts, comments?

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