Thursday, October 05, 2006

A TALE OF TWO CITIES - SEASON 3, EPISODE 1 (POST 2)










This is a "lag alleviation" post for "A Tale of Two Cities". So much great conversation resulted in the previous thread, we had to start a new one! While we try to come up with a definitive strategy for spoilers, please try to keep your discussions generally, "spoiler free". Happy "Day After Lost Day"!!!

458 comments:

1 – 200 of 458   Newer›   Newest»
iceflame7777 said...

1st for the 1st time, i think??

minnesotawriter said...

SECOND! Great show!

LockeBox said...

Third! Woot!

iceflame7777 said...

not sure if this will be spoiler or not but what i want to know is if the Hydra station is the one underwater, doesthat mean the flame isn't?

Also how many stations are there, both the 'Door' and the 'Hydra' weren't on the blast door map.

Dark Angel said...

Top 5 - :)

Negative Kelvin said...

Great eppisode, maybe they werent on the map because they werent explored. The map doesnt have to be complete. If the map was complete then wouldn't he have the other's village on there?

americanpi said...

Woo Hoo
Great show, did something happen to Kate from between the time we saw her at the beach and when Zeke brought her to the cage? Her wrists were all cut up from the handcuffs. Was that from struggling as they brought her to the cage, or did we miss something in between?

Crossfade said...

Top ten!

Crossfade said...

Happy day after lost day!

Crossfade said...

Ice flame: I think "the door" was a fake hatch.

JGZ350 said...

Good Morning all-
Top 15!

Benito said...

This season is looking to be very promising. I absolutely LOVED this episode. It had many similarities to the season 2 premiere, although I thought it was on par in terms of quality with the season finale. All I can say is: "LOST is back and better than ever!"

I must admit, I was looking forward to seeing how Elizabeth Mitchell was going to portray Juliet, I was impressed.

Axelsoar said...

hiya losties! just poping in to say hi, awsome episode.

i loved the part where jack almost escaped.

julesnotjewels said...

I know we want to keep this spoiler free, but I can't help but tie something in with TLE:



*********spoiler***********









http://television.aol.com/feature/lost_tv/photo_galleries

This is a link of pics for episode 3.03. Looks like Locke-centric. Look at the t-shit of the young guy on pic #5 - Geronimo Jackson!!! Didn't DJ Dan in TLE bring them up a few times?? LOL





***********end spoiler**********

Dennis said...

Good morning TLC!

First let me say... WOW.

I'll have more to say in a few minutes...now I have to go read the previous post...

kvonhard said...

I would presume that the Hydra Station is somehow connected to or underwater. I thought it was interesting that someone in last night's postings mentioned that the Hydra was a mythical beast. I thought of the freshwater organism that I learned about in bio. Interesting that reading up on it a bit (thank you Wikipedia) made me think even MORE of the Others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydra_%28genus%29

"Hydra is a genus of simple, fresh-water animals possessing radial symmetry. Hydras are predatory animals belonging to the phylum Cnidaria and the class Hydrozoa. They can be found in most un-polluted freshwater ponds, lakes and streams in the temperate and tropical regions by gently sweeping a collecting net through weedy areas. They are usually a few milimeters long and are best studied with a microscope. Biologists are especially interested in hydra due to their regenerative powers."

kvonhard said...

Also, I forgot - they're asexual and hermaphroditic.

thinbluemime said...

americanpi

Think back to season 2 finale......Same basic scenerio for Michael, captured, blood drawn, wrist injury from non serious trama, 10 days to 2 weeks of torture, madness or sickness sets in.......

engineer27 said...

Re: The "Jack" file that Juliet had -- I guess the Others have signed up for Verizon's FiOS service!

Sage said...

I liked the flashback in the beginning with the Others in their little community but Jack's flashbacks were really disapointing. I didn't feel like I learned anything new about him.

Your Mother said...

Morning all!
I had an alternative theory about Jack's "file" and the shots they were given. I apologize in advance if this has been said. Is it at all possible that the shot was actually sodium penethol (aka truth serum - sorry for spelling it wrong) and that the others really didn't have a file ... Jack told them everything under the influence? Just a theory.

Oh, and I have an AmEx, so once I go exploring, I'll let you know what I find. AWESOME episode.

Your Mother said...

Ok, I thought to do the AmEx Lost and Found thing you had to go to ABC.com, but I don't see anything there. Anyone remember what you're supposed to do?

kubo24 said...

This show is driving me crazy!!!!!!

Whats up with the file and knowing jacks history. I like your theory "your mother".

Why are they doing this to them? Whats going on? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

DesignerMama said...

Hi Everyone!
Popping in to say YIPPIE! Loved the new episode!

******************* Stop here if you haven't watched yet *********************

Questions/Comments:

1. What was Juliet's "FAVORITE" book they were arguing about? Was it a Steven King book like some of you said? I could swear they were arguing and someone said something about numbers, so I thought maybe it was The Valenzetti Equation??? I didn't see /hear well b/c someone was leaving an answering machine message for me-DON'T THEY KNOW WED IS LOST?!?!?

2. I think their big fat file on Jack has one real page on top and a big fat bunch of blank papers underneath.

3. HATE Sarah now! And did Jack's Dad sleep with her or what?

4. Benry! You guys called it. Sorry, can't remember who had it first.

5. What the heck did they do to Kate? For a minute there I thought they cut out her tongue or something, she was clammed up so tight. Guess she's just traumatized from whatever made her struggle.

6. I thought for a while the Others were expecting our plane crash, guess if they were all home in suburbia baking muffins they weren't expecting them after all! Love how they spring into action though!

7. That was just SOOOOO wrong when Jack sat down to get his food/water and Juliet turned and left the room. Just proving she could get him to be compliant, I guess. Not trusting her, though she seems to not trust Benry. Maybe they are ex-es also. There's something between them.

Need to watch this again!!!!!!!!

DesignerMama said...

Anyplace to watch just the first 5 min over again? Don't want to tie up the bandwidth at work streaming the whole episode from ABC, but having a slow morning and wouldn't mind a quick you tube or something.

Thrasher76 said...

Good Morning Losties!!

I am not sure if this has been said or not. I think that the people we have come to know as the "Others" are not the group of people we saw last night. I think Benry and his group are left over from the DI and that the real "Others" are people that have escaped and are running wild. What do you guys think.

Oh, and I so called the Utopian Society back in the middle of the game!!!

tdiddy23 said...

Yea! I was trying to hit up the american express site as well ... I thought it said americanexpress.com/lost ... but that is not working.
What exactly are they doing to Super Kate?

Your Mother said...

tdiddy - I think I've found the site. Try www.abc.com/lost

There's a spot for a video there but it says to come back tomorrow. I'll be checking it throughout the day.

Ange said...

GREAT episode last night!
Sage-I agree about the Jack flashbacks. They seemed so "dark".
I also think that the Others (or Fothers-if we go with Thrasher) were expecting something. I know if I were to see a plane crash I would have been a little taken aback, NOT planning on how to infiltrate the survivors.
Anyway, the book WAS Stephen King, they showed the cover, but all you could see was the author, no title. The writers way of giving a nod to their #1 fan I think:).

ular98 said...

Just a thought written as a question. Remember when we were wondering how they could make such a goof up and show houses on the promo's for this season? Guess they didn't goof, there are houses and we all just assumed. Oh and who ever asked, that was a Stephen King book.

ewktd said...

Hi all - First time poster but LONG time lurker. I think I just found something on the American Express web site.

http://www.800thecard.com/flash.html?s=ola

If you click on the photos there is someting written under them!

ular98 said...

I am not positive, but I think the book of Kings was Dreamcatcher. I have most of his books and that one has lots of blue sky and white clouds and that one did as well.

Your Mother said...

Hey, http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;cat=5 has some really good closeups of the Stephen King book from last night. It appears the book in question is "Carrie."

FYSB said...

Good morning LoCo!

1. engineer27 asked yesterday what pre-80s song we would here last night...Downtown!

2. The others clearly have ongoing contact with the outside world....Juliet has a CD player and a relatively recent Stephen King novel. Not to mention, EXTENSIVE research on Jack. (though your mother's theory is pretty good)

3. I found it odd that Benry would automatically assume there would be survivors from the crash. It looked pretty horrific from their perspective, breaking apart in midair. But his response was so quick, could something like that have happened before?

maven said...

Morning all! Tough sleeping last night...my mind was racing with Lost questions! LOL

I think the number question I awoke with was: It sure seemed like the Others didn't know anything about the plane crash happening before it did. The rumbling that interrupted the book club discussion did seem like an earthquake at first (something they seemed to be familiar with as they ran to stand in doorways of the house). But when they went outside and saw the plane going down (awesome shot!), it seemed like it was something unexpected. Although, Ben did immediately and calmly (and creepily) take control and sent Goodwin and Ethan on their errands. He knew that a situation was developing that had to be contained. He needed a list of the passengers fast. In other words, I don't think these Others had anything to do with getting certain people on Flight 815.

Another thing: When Juliet says just before the rumbling and shaking: "Here I'm thinking that free will actually still exists on..." and then she's cut off. Exists on....what? This island? Our planet? She used "on" not "in"....which could have lead to in our town, in our country, in this house. Very curious.

Dark Angel said...

Hi Guys,

Just somethoughts as as I mentioned I am at present laptopless and therefore unable to see Lost :(

Surely it would be pretty easy for the others to get information on Jack. Ethan could have given them the basics, and that might be enought for Juliette to convince Jack that she knew everyhing getting him to reveal what then knew.

Of course another option is that Ben and Tom have access to the outside world. With 60 or so days it's not hard to get a whole load of info on someone.

maven said...

I do think they have access to the outside world. They have a copy of a 1999 Stephen King book ("Carrie"), not to mention the CD's and player. Even the coffee urn that Ben offered to Kate if she would put on her bracelets seemed very modern (glass and metal). So, therefore, they could've gotten info on Jack. Remember Ben told Ethan to get a list (of the passengers on the plane crash) fast!

The AMEX site is still saying "Come back tomorrow".

Dark Angel said...

Mmmn So they 're reading Carrie and then they come across Walt with his powers, no longer they wanted to let him go!

ewktd said...

ok - never mind. Just reloaded the page and found out it just covered up the title "If you can imagine it we can make it happen"

ular98 said...

what site did you go to? I used mine and I got a bunch of pic. of that you can click on. It says the same thing, but what is so special about that? Am I "lost"?

ular98 said...

I also apologize about the book wrong name. However the top half of the book Julie is holding does look like the Dreamcatcher book, I do see the Ca on the bottom corner however.

Pharmacopaeia said...

I figured that if it was a book full of 'religious hokum pokum' or whatever it was that it would have been Carrie or the Stand, although as another King geek I agree in that neither the books seems to be the right size or cover design.

Also, YAY BENRY!

Pharmacopaeia said...

Re Carrie: maybe I should refreshed the page before posting. Ooopsies!

jess4ua said...

Good morning everyone!
Wow!
Well I definately don't think that group is just "stranded" leftovers from the DI. Like others have said, where are they getting all that recent stuff from.
I think the most important thing we learned about Jack was that after he attacked his father in the hotel, and got put in jail, his father went back to drinking. And I think that seeing Sarah's boyfriend was confirmation that she wasn't having an affair with Jack's dad.

TheBookPolice said...

Just chiming in with my two cents (from the old thread). Now that work has blocked Blogger (ARGHH!!) I can only contribute at home.

There's no way the Others we know (Goodwin, Ethan, Ben, Juliet, and even Tom) were original DHARMA operatives. Remember, even if there were some recruitments going on into the 90's (see: Kelvin), there's no indication from any of these Others that they were originally scientists. Juliet obfuscated when Jack asked her about DI. If DI started in the early 70's, and was semi-officially suspended in the early 80's, these are not the original operatives.

SO...Are they the children of DI operatives, or did DHARMA experiment on children, too?

blueheron13 said...

Hi, all. Relatively new poster here. Some thoughts that keep bouncing around my mind:

1. I've always wondered how so many people survived the crash, and many with only minor injuries. It looks like we have a partial answer now--the plane was not tens of thousands of feet up when it broke apart. But I'm wondering why did no one on the plane apparently notice that they had dropped that far in altitude? And I'm still wondering why everyone apparently blacked out when they put on their oxygen masks.

2. If the monster is indeed the security system that Rosseau claims it is, perhaps it killed the pilot because the pilot was the only one who saw the village as the plane was coming down (the monster must keep the village's location a secret?). The monster hasn't actually killed anyone else, has it? Although it did try to pull Locke underground.

3. I believe, for the moment, that all of the Others are remnants of the Dharma Initiative, but they have broken into at least two factions: one led by Benry (like that name too much to just say "Ben") in a dictatorial style, and a second group--the "other" Others if you will--to which Juliet belongs. Can't really speculate on what either group is trying to accomplish, though.

Boy, that episode made my head spin.

thinbluemime said...

Ben's (Henry,Fenry) actions at the time of the plane crash, were those of a well trained and organized military leader. Ethan and Goodwin, with no questions asked, responded immediately to the commands of Ben. They are soldiers, but I am betting, not "Onward Christian Soldiers"

Here is a twist, speculation on my part about Ben, so no spoiler info technically....
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.lost/browse_frm/thread/95027f8f827843ea/1778bc0b44f138ad#1778bc0b44f138ad

"Pleased to meet you, Hope you guess my name"

Your Mother said...

Hey Ular - I think the REAL AmEx site is here: www.abc.com/lost. It talks about membership only clips and it being sponsored by American Express ... so I'd keep checking that page.

ular98 said...

On the amex site..if you click on the cloud card it shows you looking out a plane window, you can click and get a zoom but nothing shows up in windows but clouds. I kept waiting to get a revelation from the clouds or something. lol

blueheron13 said...

Two questions for the group:

1. When the Others all came outside, were there any children visible in the scene?

2. Were Alex and/or Ms. Klugh in this episode at all?

CattyGirl said...

So... Juliet, not Rachel Blake, knows who Jack shephard is. :))

thinbluemime said...

blueheron
1) No
2) No
:)

JoAnn said...

I'm watching the show again... I had to keep reminding myself that the opening scenes at the "Others" village happened 40 something days before the remainder of the show. Things have happened in their lives in those weeks too.

ular98 said...

ty...your mother

ewktd said...

Ular - same here. I was waiting for the clouds to open up only to see the ocean with a small island in the center. lol

blueheron13 said...

More thoughts that I must spill on to the page:

1. Anyone else think that maybe the Others got their info on Jack from the monster? It certainly seemed to can Eko's mind a while back.

2. I can't make up mind whether Jack's escape attempt was set up by the Others or if caught them by surprise. Juliet did look betrayed when Benry left her down in the water. But it could just as easily have been an elaborate setup to make Jack more complacent and trusting of Juliet.

3. Anyone have speculation about why Jack heard his father's voice on the intercom box? A hallucination? Or something else?

Ange said...

I just remembered, that Jack heard his father's voice coming from that busted-up, old intercom in the green hatch room he was in. What was that all about? Puts me in mind of the black smoke and Eko's life reflected in it. So, hallucination or mysterious?

PS: Pharma-I am SOOO glad that you got to watch the episode so soon!

Ange said...

blueheron13-We are sharing the same brain today;)

Sorry about that!

blueheron13 said...

Make that "scan" Eko's mind.

Thanks for the answers, thinbluemine

CattyGirl said...

I would just love it if Jack's father was alive and a master mind in all of this...

sean said...

i dont know if it was jacks father through the intercom, but this better not become one of those shows where suddenly people start coming back to life.

maybe the others were playing a recording of his through the intercom to mess with jacks mind.

blueheron13 said...

Yeah, ange. Same thought at the same time!

jess4ua said...

Yeah, intercom think was wierd. Of course reminded me of Jack's dad leading him to the caves in S1

blueheron13 said...

Where would the Others get a recording of Jack's fathers's voice, I wonder?

oxillini said...

wow, just wow! the first five minutes set me reeling. there's a friggin' suburb in the jungle! and the others can get from that suburb to the losties in less than an hour? holy crap does this change things. they're not on antoher island, they're basically across a small bay!

oh, and goooooooooooood morning tlc!

jess4ua said...

Oh, and where in the world did Carl come from? Anyone know?

sean said...

thats what i thought blueheron. they had everything else on jack. they must have had a recording of jacks fathher.

jess4ua said...

If they have a recording of Jack's father, do they also have a hologram? (since Jack has "seen" his father on the island as well)

Dark Angel said...

I think that Christian Shepherd is dead. TPTB has said that when people die in lost then they remain dead. I would think that it is mroe likely that when Jack saw his father it was actually the smoke monster (as was Kate's horse).

I think that the recording of his father's voice was a tool used to screw with Jack's mind.

Fish_Biscuit said...

Hello all!
Former TLEC lurker, hope to be a more active participant of TLC. Too bad I don't have nearly enough time to spend online these days. GREAT observations throughout these comments!

The opening scene with Juliet is bugging me... Any speculation as to why she seemed like she was on the verge of a nervous breakdown? She looked like she was ready to burst into tears, but instead crammed it all back inside and went along her merry way singing 'Downtown'.

Makes me wonder if she has other motives for being at the village - if she really belongs there.

Or - could be that she and Benry were in a relationship of some sort that had recently come to an end.

AND, what was Benry's comment "Guess I'm not in the book club anymore..." all about?

jess4ua said...

I really don't think they have either. But maybe they have some other way of messing with his mind.

sean said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
blueheron13 said...

I think who Carl is (Other? Tailie?) will go unanswered for a while. Just like the answer to the question of why he was forced to apologize to Sawyer. And the answer to the question of what happened to him after he was taken away.

Ange said...

I think Carl=Plant by Benry et al. But that is MHO.

Also, Hi jess:)I agree with you, Jack's father's voice in the com. was saying exactly what he said in the flashback. I don't see how that could have been a recording (holograms...heheh).

blueheron13 said...

Sean, were you the one who first used the name "Benry"? That name cracked me up as much as the "fish biscuit" line in the episode.

sean said...

yeah. i thought up "benry" in the previous thread.

maven said...

I think Jack was hallucinating when he heard his father through the intercom. He was dehydrated and hadn't eaten in who knows how long.

Hey, jess. I asked that same question last night, too. Is Carl an Other that has to be "reprogrammed" or is he from the Tailies? (P.S.: I'm twinkling away!)

Pharma: Glad to see you got to see the Opener so quickly! Yea!

Blueheron13: I think Jack's escape attempt was preplanned by Ben/Juliet. They wanted him to see the futility of him escaping. It was a scenario they planned for. And I think that Ben and Juliet are playing Good Cop/Bad Cop with Jack. (Juliet is obviously trying to gain his trust, and there's no way that Jack will trust Ben.)

jess4ua said...

Hey Ange :) hehe

Carl=Plant - Good one!

Wonder if they were taking blood from them, or injecting something.

blueheron13 said...

Fish_biscuit, you have some of the questions I have. I think that finding out what the connection is/was between Benry and Juliet will be an important part of the next few episodes. Were they romantically linked and broke up recently? Are they from different "factions" of Others and have opposing beliefs on their mission on the island? I have no idea yet.

jess4ua said...

Hey Maven :)

Yes, prisoners dilema, woohooo.

(I have a little pixie dust on hand, if you need it :))

sean said...

unless carl was on the plane. they might end up doing a whole backstory episode on how he fell isolated from everyone else on the island. thinking he was the sole survivor, he looked around the island, the others found him, and cptured him.

blueheron13 said...

Maven, your logic about the escape attempt being a planned-for scenario make good sense to me. The Others seem to careful to let Jack get (partillay) away that easily.

Dark Angel said...

Hi Maven

I agree that both the escapes were planned, it's the old trick of letting the prisoner think that they can escape and then showing them the futility of the attempt.

So is everyone preparing something for the podcast? As I am technologiacally deprived at present I have had to do an email only comment but I will be 'on air' next week :)

oxillini said...

so who thinks juliet and ben are ex's? there is definitely some tension there. and the opening book club scene where juliet says she doesn't care what book ben would read. she does what he says because she has to for some reason, but she definitely doesn't like it!

blueheron13 said...

Not preparing anything for the podcast, but looking forward to listening to it.

blueheron13 said...

Ox,

I think that's a definite possibility.

Dark Angel said...

Sounds like Juliettes relationship with Jack could cause tension between Jack and Benry. Wow we could have a love pentangle!

sean said...

any possibility, and this is just my random thoughts, not based on anything, but is it possible that tom friendly is the father of either benry or juliet?

Deannacat said...

Hey guys!

I think Benry doesn't approve of Juliette's choice of reading material. He looked accusatory and she looked a bit sheepish. And she said it was her favorite book. I think Benry is a person of absolutes. This person is "good", that one "bad" and having prefrences that don't fit with his model of what a good person is puts you on his s*** list. Rather a Nazi, really.
Also, they all ran outside looked UP after the earthquake. Like they were expecting that something could be happening up there. No one seemed too terribly taken aback by the fact that an airliner was breaking up right in front of their faces.
Another thing that got me was when Jack was sitting in his car watching Sara, "Moonlight Serenade" was playing. Remember? That's what was playing the night Sayid and Hurley heard that WWII radio station.

maven said...

I just rewatched to opening: It sure seems that Juliet is gathering inner strength to face the book club. She puts on "Downtown" and takes a deep breath and sighs. She probably knows that there will be a confrontation in the book club. It also left me with the impression that Ben is definitely in charge around Othertown, and she has to explain herself. There might be two factions of Others in town. When Adam says regarding the book choice: "There's no metaphors. It's by the numbers, religious hokum pokum. It's science fiction...now I know why Ben isn't here." This makes me think that Ben is a scientist, strictly by the book. He needs facts that can be proven.

Thanks for the pixie dust offer, Jess! :)ala

oxillini said...

maven: i took that scene where adam disses the book to mean that some, if not most, hero-worship ben. juliet knows him personally from her past (intimate) relationship with him and thus has no qualms about doing things he wouldn't do. name the favorite sports or movie star from your childhood, no matter how great you thought they were, chances are they had an ex who thought they were a piece of crap.

sean said...

maybe that book could have been the valenzetti equation.

blueheron13 said...

Maven, I think Adam's comments are also a little tounge-in-cheek reference to what some fans may feel about LOST itself, a comment thrown in for a little humor.

blueheron13 said...

Deannacat,

Good points. It seemed like they had all been through the earthquake (hatch-shaking) episode before, weren't overly distressed by it, and in fact had a plan for what to do in such situations, and were looking UP to see what, if anything, got dragged into the island this time!

lostfanboy said...

The episode was amazing. I loved it so much. Could people please stop calling Ben, Benry. We now know his name so could we call him by his real name.

blueheron13 said...

It reminds me of how none of the Others seemed terribly appalled by the "discharge" event at the end of Season 2.

FYSB said...

Ox! Good to see you! I feel like school's started again and I'm getting to see all my old friends.

Benry and Juliet are totally exes. She had the book club meeting without him and purposely chose a book that he would hate. Very petty. They clearly did not have the bond of "assault by small appliance" to keep their love going.

*sniff*

Dark Angel said...

Don't forget at some point the Nigerian drug runners plane had dropped from the sky so plane crashes on the island wasn't an entirely new phenomenon.

blueheron13 said...

Deannacat,

Great catch on the song, too! I think Doc Jensen (in the EW article) mentioned hearing the song when he watched the episode, but I missed it.

jess4ua said...

OOO, good point dark angel!
Benry, Benry, Benry!!!

JK, LFB :)

maven said...

oxillini: Yes, I agree...a faction of the group probably do worship Ben and sees him as their leader. Juliet most likely picked a book that she knew would rile Ben, probably a way for her assert herself. The older woman (didn't get her name) in the book club seems to standing up for Juliet's choice. So there might be some underlying tension and two or more factions could be forming.

However, Juliet seems to be doing Ben's bidding in regards to dealing with Jack. But remember, island time has gone by since the opening scene and the rest of the episode. (Around 65 days if I remember). So a lot could have gone on between the bookclub/plane crash to the show's present day when the Others had to deal with the newcomers on their island. (Possibility exists it is not an island, though, but part of a larger land mass...as seen from the opening shot)

dolenore said...

Not sure if anybody else put this together... in the scene where Jack is yelling at his father in the AA meeting, the woman tells Jack that Christian was sober for 54 days and they were proud of him.

After Jack accuses his father and tackles him, his ex-wife bails him from jail and tells him that Christian called her to let her know where jack was and that he was almost too drunk to understand.

We obviously know this was before Christian lost his practising license... and we saw the 'other man' in the same scene.

So, Jack falsely accused his father, forced him into a relapse of alcoholism that he apperently never recovers from, and eventually dies in Sydney after what Sawyer called 'a real bender'.

A lot of Jack's character can be interpretted by this: he feels guilty for accusing his father and believes he is responcible for Christian's death.

Jacks mother tells Jack in one of the flashbacks that he 'doesn't get to say no... not after what you've done'. I thought this meant stripping his license, but now I think it might be the alcohol relapse that resulted in his license being revoked.

FYSB said...

Thanks for reminding me about the druggie plane. Now I'm wondering, why did they bury the real Henry Gale and not the drug runners? Fenry (as Henry) said he was travelling with his wife. Did the wife bury the "real" Henry? If so, where is she?

Sorry, LFB, but Benry is too funny to give up.

blueheron13 said...

Dolenore,

I thinked you summed up Jack's history very well.

lostfanboy said...

What's this I hear about a podcast?

blueheron13 said...

I would like to stick with Benry also. Unless it gets so annoying it drives people away from the comments.

tlcm said...

could the rumbling felt before the others went outside have been desmond's not having entered the numbers yet because he was off following and killing kelvin? I think that Ben was expecting the plane crash but did not know exactly when it would arrive. I mean he knew exactly what to do.

oh and hello TLC!!!

maven said...

Dark Angel: Very good point. Forgot about that Nigerian plane crash. Ben and the Others definitely first looked up when they ran outside. But they maybe heard the plane in distress, and that was their first reaction. And Ben also seemed to know what to do right away and took command of the situation. And Goodwin and Ethan didn't question anything...just started running upon Ben's orders.

Anyway, gotta run for a while...can't wait to get back and continue this stimulating discussion. Love that I now have fellow obsessed Losties to immediately converse with! Love TLC!

WV: mfink Remember being a "fink"? LOL

jess4ua said...

dolenore-true that Jack was at fault for his dad losing his license. But... Jack sat in a meeting with all of the hospital big wigs and flat out said his father shouldn't be licensed. So he had his chance to "fix" the problem if he wanted to. I wonder why he didn't.

Dark Angel - The real Henry Gale's balloon crashed on the island too!

oxillini said...

thanks fysb. certainly does feel like everyone's back. good to see all the tlec regulars plus some newly outed lurkers!

sean said...

speaker uses benry also.

blueheron13 said...

fysb,

I don't think the Henry's wife was on the balloon. Didn't he leave a farewell note to her saying something to the effect that crossing the Pacific was a lot tougher than he thought it would be, that she was right about that?

jess4ua said...

Sorry about repeating you FYSB!

Trying to do too many things at once.LOL

I'm out for a while too. Catch ya later!

sean said...

maybe the real henry gale was a grug runner.
i still dont know where the baloon came from, but seeing as how "advanced" the others are, its not inconceivable that they would have a hot ait baloon.

FYSB said...

thanks blueheron, forgot about that. man, there are a lot of details to remember!

still...i have the burial question.

dolenore said...

jess4ua: not true. Letting Christian keep his license would not fix anything. To fix the problem, Jack would have had to apollogize (something I think is out of character for Jack) and help him recover from his alcoholism.

If you remember, Jack was going to go along with it, until it was pointed out that Christian not only killed the woman, but her unborn child as well. Jack is stubborn, just as juliet said, and could not remain quiet about that.

sean said...

there are so many typos in my last post.

Dark Angel said...

Hi Guys

Time to go - I'll be back tommorow and I hope to be back online proper by Sunday

Lostfanboy Check out Passafists post in the previous thread. We are doing our own TLC podcast - just record an MP3 (5 mins or less) (download audacity if you don't have any software) and send it to passafistwastaken@gmail.com. If you can't record an MP3 then an email would be cool.

Sorry can't be more specific but I have to go

Byeeee

Namaste

DA

kovoor36 said...

hi im new to the posting, but i follow all these religiously! the book juliet had in her hand at the book club, you could see it when they were outside was a stephen king novel. i didnt catch which book, but saw stephen king.

blueheron13 said...

jess4ua,

I think Jack did the right thing. He couldn't let his father continue on as a surgeon. But he definitely needed to fix his relationship with his dad, and failed to do so. Of course, his dad must share some blame in this.

Deannacat said...

Blue Heron: Thanks!

Seemed to me also that Jack's backstory was serving to shed a different light on HIM. Obviously, the good doctor is not the Mr. Stability-always-making-solid-decisions that we've all come to know and depend on. The breakup with Sara was much more emotionally charged on Jack's end than hers and he was jumping to conclusions that it was his father that was sleeping with his wife. He was a little crazy there for awhile and I think Juliette saw that it's a vulnerability and is using it against Jack.

dolenore said...

blueheron13: I agree, his father is partly at fault.

Although, you don't become Chief of Surgery if you have any record at all of malpractice. It can safely be assumed that his 'drinking a bottle of skotch every night' had no effect on his work related skills until after Jack sparked the relapse.

lostfanboy said...

I don't remember this while watching it but look at this.

http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/galleries

The picture I am talking about is oh tale of two cities #33.

jess4ua said...

Dolenore-you may be right about Jack just being stubborn, I just think it's quite a heavy burden for a mother to put on her "son". His father was an abusive drinker his whole life. I just don't see why Jack would push for his Dad's lisence to be revoked, if he felt guilty for making him drink again. He could have opted to say nothing, and be neutral in the situation. :)

FYSB said...

sean, typos? so henry was NOT a grug runner?

tremendous pie said...

Hi everyone i was a lurker for most of the Lost Experience but it has been a while since i saw the season finally, and at the begining of the episode did anyone else think it was Penny we were watching? I still don't rememebr exatcly what penny looks like but i do remember she had a british accent. i dont get why they would cast someone for julliet that looks so similar to penny. but i dont know maybe they dont look at all like each other!

Deannacat said...

Who's the kid?!? OK, I gotta go rewatch the ep now so I can see if she's really there!

sean said...

jeez, fysb. where do i begin. i mispelled balloon twice. i mispelled air as ait. and of course, grug.

Deannacat said...

Good catch, Lostfanboy!

dolenore said...

jess4ua: fair enough. Although battered wives (and there is no evidence of that to my knowledge, I am just working with your assumption that Christian was abusive to her) tend to fiercely defend their abusive husbands. Look at Kate's family... we know that was an abusive relationship, and the mother, even on her deathbad (effectively) tried to defend her husband and call for help to arrest Kate.

If you are right in assuming Christian was abusive, the pattern fits quite well actually. It would also provide a little more reason for Jack to resent his father.

lostfanboy said...

My brother says it might be a mistake. Also does anyone remember when they had those behind the scenes pictures and Jack was saving the little girl from choking at a playground. Well that wasn't in the episode. Maybe they had to cut that part out for time and thats why the little girl is in the picture and they forgot to take her out of it.

jess4ua said...

Dolenore - yeah, I guess I meant more abusive to Jack, especially verbal. I know I have resented Jack's dad since lost started, for Jack

sean said...

i have to get going. but ill check back in later.

only 6 days, 8 hours and 44 minutes to the next all new lost!

dolenore said...

jess4ua: Yeah, I have too... until Sawyer's flashback in the bar. Ever since then I realized the whole situation was a matter of perspective.

We are following the LOSTies, so we are supposed to see things the way they do. But the bar conversation about "I could pick up that phone and tell my son how proud I am of him and that I love him, but I don't have the stones for it" and the opening of this episode with the Others in a book club...

I dunno. I am starting to get the impression that this is all a matter of shade of grey, not black and white. The point of view of the main characters will always make them look right, even if they aren't.

blueheron13 said...

lostfanboy,

Great catch. I agree that there probably was a plot line that was dropped due to time constraints, and that it involved that little girl.

Further evidence would be that there seemed to be a disconnect in the series of flashback scenes between when Jack is watching Sara from the car and then is talking to her about his lawyer. The little girl was probably one of the children around Sara in the first scene.

blueheron13 said...

If they had kept in the scene in Jack's prison with the little girl, I suspect she would have fallen into the same category of mystery as the voice of Jack's father on the intercom--hallucination, hologram, something else?

DesignerMama said...

Benry and Othertown. We read it here first. You guys are great. ;-)

That opening scene made me think about The Village... another "we want to create a utopian society" home away from home. Those "Elders" didn't get it right either.

I think Carl is a "Young Other" along the lines of Danielle's daughter (forgot her name at the moment), but he is being punished for going against the rules.

thinbluemime said...

Jack was being "drowned in the drink" this episode, as punishment for the indirect cause of Christian's death "Drowned in the Drink"
Oh the irony :)

RyaNDrumZ said...

So, I'm all caught up with you guys. Great discussions.
Here is what puzzles me. If Desmond is the one really at fault with bringing the plane down, then how did the others know that this plane was going to crash with these specific people on board. Unless they knew that Desmond was going to miss pushing the button on that day when flight 815 was flying nearby. Which is highly unlikely. The only thing I can think of is that Desmond missing the button didn't really casue that plane to go down. This outcome I don't think is right. That electromagnetic discharge I think would have a great effect on nearby flying planes and Desmond was at fault.

So how do they know so much about our 815 survivors? The lists that Goodwin and Ethan brought back is how. Ben gets the lists and they start collecting data about them and find out who they want to do tests on and so on...

I think they didn't know that this specific flight was to crash that day. Yes, seeing the plane crash did not seem to suprise the others that much, but they've seen this before...Hot Air Baloon, Drug plane and so on.

Sorry for the long post. I also think Jack isn't under water either. The tanks right next to Sawyer's cage had the same logo as the one Jack is in....It's all a mind game going on.

lostfanboy said...

I love TLC. Its great to have a place to talk about Lost with people who love it as much as me. I plan on coming here week after week. Can you belive that some people didn't like it. On tv.com some people are giving it 1 out of 10 saying it jumped the shark.

dolenore said...

I would love to stick around and continue this train of thought with jess4ua and all of you, but I need to go to work now. I will check the comments again when I get home and see if there is anything more to add. ^_^ Take care all.

jess4ua said...

Yeah, lfb - I really think it was "The Game" that jumped the shark, and we are getting the blame. lol

roomforhuman said...

Ryandrumz -

I think it was Desmonds fault the plane came down, but I believe it was set up. Kelvin acted weird on his way out that time, "Good-bye dez" - (the tear in the suit). I think this behavior caused Desmond to follow him thus missing the button push, thus bringing the plane down, thus being a set up chain of events.

Also, did anyone else catch the name of the person Juliet said wouldn't be coming to the book club? All I remember is her defending the fact that he didn't like the book they were reading or the book club itself.

blueheron13 said...

ryandrumz,

I can now accept that the tummult resulting from Desmond not pushing the button caused the plane to break up, but what I'm still wondering is what caused the plane to lose its instruments and turn around (back toward Fiji) about two hours before the crash?

I think that Jack may be under water, but in an aquarium setting there at the zoological facility, and not out in the ocean. But you might be right...

wv: iooak
And the tree wants me to pay up. Now.

RyaNDrumZ said...

Roomforhuman - Very good to point out...Kelvin set it all up with these "others" so that Desmond would miss pushing the button, so that this plane would crash. I don't think it was planned that Kelvin would die. And yes, I do think he's dead.

engineer27 said...

FYSB: Thanks for the shout-out (Re: "Downtown").

Whoever asked about whether Ms. Klugh appeared in the opening sequence, the answer is YES!

She is on the couch, to the right of Juliet.

engineer27 said...

ryandrumz: I have to disagree. I think Kelvin Lives!
I do agree that the incident was timed specifically to bring down flight 815.

And think: maybe the pilot diverted from his planned course on purpose, so that the plane would be in the right place at the right time to be hit with the electromagnetic pulse. That's why Old Smokey had to take him away.

scoutpost said...

Hey all! Finally caught up this morning. Good to see everyone back.

lostfanboy said... Can you belive that some people didn't like it. On tv.com some people are giving it 1 out of 10 saying it jumped the shark.

I can't believe that either. I have a group of friends that watch LOST faithfully too, and they threw a premier party last night- everyone thought it was lame and they were complaining about how slow it was (including my hubby-traitor!). I thought they were crazy. I think for the casual viewer, they just aren't asking the questions that we are, they don't think about it, so they don't realize how much was actually in that episode. Good catch BTW on that pic w/the little girl. I kinda wish they hadn't cut that out, would've been interesting.

engineer27 said...

designermama: "You are Number Six"

roomforhuman said...

Ryandrumz- I agree about Kelvin's death being an accident, and I agree that he's dead.

RyaNDrumZ said...

Engineer27, Very good...Do we actually even know if the pilot was killed? Maybe the monster just took him away to bring him back to his people across the island...

capcom said...

Hi All!

Maven; I thought that Juliet was going to say, "Here I'm thinking that free will actually still exists on...[[craphole island]]."

Benry's coffee maker has actually been around for a while, it's a French or Italian (I think) coffee press.

I think that the King book is way too small to be The Stand, at least in hardcover, that book is huge. And how weird would Juliet be if "Carrie" was her favorite book of all time? I hope that she was just razzing the guy.

Dark Angel, I agree, they have just enough info to break Jack down. In reality, Sara could be completely unhappy and missing Jack, but to break Jack, they tell him that she's happy. Too easy for them, but effective!

Hi TLCM, how are you doing? Also, if Benry thinks that the Swan hatch is "a joke" (assuming that's the truth) why don't they just kill the swan station person, let the computer count down or use the key, and then they don't have to worry about it anymore? Unless they do need to use it to bring down fresh people from the sky and sea. Too many Qs!

engineer27 said...

Kelvin lives, because it is physically impossible to ever achieve Zero Kelvin!

tlcm said...

I think ben was expecting flight 815; he wasn't expecting the crash. he was very concerned about finding survivors. I'm not sure if the others knew about desmond and the hatch and its purpose. obviously, desmond knew about the hostels. I don't think he had encountered them but learned about them from kelvin. perhaps kelvin knew of the line in the sand that separated the hostel from them.

if ben was expecting flight 815, then he could already have the info on jack and everyone on that plane. what he didn't have was who survived the crash and thus that's why he sent ethan and goodwin.

juliette not only resembles penny but she also resembles sara, that's why she was chosen to work with jack.

I also think that if kate had said "where is jack and sawyer" instead of "where is sawyer and jsck" she would have been put in with jack. she chose her fate with out knowing it. I mean it obvious that this is all a mind game to the others.

Beth said...

Ok, not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but did anyone watch the preview for next week and Benry saying "what boat?" Leading us to believe that he knows nothing of the boat. So, does that mean he doesn't know about Desmond manning the hatch?

oxillini said...

scoutpost: really? people thought it was too slow? i found myself thinking, that was an hour long? i wish it could have been 3 hours long. othertown shocked me, jack's sarah issues added about 100 facets to his character and juliet is a huge question mark. wow, i want to watch the episode at least another two times to catch everything!

lostfanboy said...

I think kelvin is dead.

oxillini said...

capcom: yes, ben's coffee maker is a french press. those make an awesome pot of coffee from fresh grounds. thanks for making me think of that when all i have available is the crap they serve at work!

tlcm said...

capcom..

I'm doing okay, tired and weak which are normal for chemo. I'm so glad to have this community to talk to and to have LOST to entertain me.

I think benri and the swan hatch folks ahd a deal to leave each other alone. I don't think benri new what would happen when the fail safe key was used; they were surprised at the end of last season and although the results were more intense the rumble was the same as the begin of S3. remember desmond got back late to enter the numbers that day.

engineer27 said...

RyaNDrumZ said...
Maybe the monster just took him away to bring him back to his people across the island...


That's what I'm saying. Maybe I need to watch the "Pilot" episode again really closely.

RE: The "Jack File", don't forget they had Michael tied up for 2-3 weeks, and we don't know how much he let spill about his fellow crashees.

capcom said...
why don't they just kill the swan station person...


It is obviously not that simple. The Others have a mission and a purpose, perhaps controlled by someone we have not yet seen. We just don't know enough about their purpose yet.

roomforhuman said...

beth-

Benry may still think Kelvin is manning the hatch. Or he may not have know Kelvin was fixing it. Perhaps Ben thinks the sailboat is still in shambles!

capcom said...

Heh, funny Engineer27! :-)

Concering the cut-out scene of Jack saving the girl, I wonder what would have been Sara's reaction after Jack jumps out of his car and saves her....."Oh geez, there goes Jack the Superhero, saving lives again, what a jerk! And how dare he spy on me!"

Good point TLCM about Kate's choice of answer being the outcome of her fate.

oxillini said...

engineer: i knew we could count on you for at least one geek joke. as the saying on my engineering campus used to go: you can't spell geek without double e. pretty bad when other engineers mock your geekitude!

scoutpost said...

So Jack asked Juliet if they were part of the DI and Juliet says that was a long time ago or something like that. I can accept that not all of them are original DI leftovers and are newer recruits. But still- what are they doing? Are they still carrying out the purpose of the DI and trying to change the VE? Or have they become something else? Is Ben the evil predecessor of Mittlewerk? They definitely have something to hide, what/why? How does this all tie together? It's driving me crazy!!! And why, if Kelvin is part of the DI, hired to push the numbers, then why was he oblivious to the nice little Othertown on the other side of the island? He didn't seem to be part of their community- was he just a subject for study? I guess so. So amazing that Desmond and Kelvin were living such a lonely existence on one side of the island while the Others were living it up in their little village.

lostfanboy said...

Oxillini,
I know. When the episode first started I was thinking it was a flashback but when I saw ethan I was like holy crap its the others. Thats one of the reason's I love the show. No way to predict what is going to happen.

Beana said...

Along those same lines, Scott, the others seemed unconcerned with whether or not the button gets pushed. Did they assume that Kelvin has taking care of it. Why didn't they know what was happening over there.

Kelvin called the others "The Hostiles". Maybe they put on their hillbillie clothes to put on a show for Kelvin and he didn't know they were a modern community.

engineer27 said...

oxillini: double-e indeed! That made my day. I think I'll have to post it at work :D

blueheron13 said...

That's also bothering me. How are Kelvin and the folks in Othertown tied together?

scoutpost said...

Hey OX! Yeah I'm with you- gotta watch it a few more times to catch everything. I don't know what the people who were disappointed with the premier were expecting.

Beth said...

roomforhuman-
So true! But doesn't it make you wonder what other stuff he DOESN'T know about. Maybe they aren't as informed as they would like to think...

blueheron13 said...

Getting back to the picture of the little girl in Jack's cell noted earilier in the comments:

I just read on a site called buddytv.com that after all the episodes for Season 3 are aired, ABC will then air all 23 in a row as reruns, but with additonal scenes in them.

Maybe that's when we'll see the scenes with the little girl?

capcom said...

TLCM, keep the faith. When I went thru chemo, Lost was just starting and it gave me something else to think about for a while too. Although this great community did not exist yet. :-)

Sorry for making you think about good coffee, Ox. BTW, maybe at work you can use the Chemex coffee maker. It's been around since the 1940s. Just an hourglass shaped glass coffee pot with a paper liner. If you can get perk-hot water somehwere at work, you can use the Chemex. It comes in all sizes, from tiny (2 cup) to large. Very simple, yet very "moderne". Available online too.

ular98 said...

It seems to me every single one of the losties has some degree of illness. Most cases it is a mental illness, and Jack is/wasn't wrapped in a neat package and tied with a bow. That guy has been all over the place since day one. I also think he could possibly be an abusive husband if crossed one time to many for his satisfaction.

oxillini said...

capcom: oooh, that's the glass, vacuum powered one right. those things are awesome!

Thrasher76 said...

WOW!!! I caught everything you are all saying, the music selections, the looks, the things Adam said...and I still want more! But I do think that Benry and all the Benry's in Benrytown are not the Others. And Mr. Friendly even said to Sawyer that the "bears figured it out in 2 hours." So I stand firm that the people in Benrytown are from the DI, remember that if they were doing life extension expirements that they could all look young and vibrant even if they have been there since the late 70's. I think that there was a power struggle on the island during the DI and Benry basically won and sent the remaining people out into the jungle as outcasts (Others). That would explain why he was in such a hurry to have Goodwin and Ethan go and blend in and report back to him. He did not want the true others getting the "good ones." I wonder, if my theory holds water, if the true others are led by the Degroots????? Much to ponder!!!

wv: tgerk Tiger, k?

capcom said...

Maybe Jack could be physically abusive (and his paranoia did make him bust up the AA meeting), but extreme neglect is certainly a psycological or mental abuse. I.e., to act as though the whole entire world is more important than your marriage or spouse is certainly the basis for a type of destructive self-centeredness, especially in Jack's case where he thinks the world needs him to save it, and the world can't live without Jack doing so. Uh-oh, maybe he would be a good flunky for TWM's Spider Protocal?!

capcom said...

Ox: no vacuum, just gravity-driven! :-) It's not powered by anything, it's just a humble glass vessel (with a nice wooden "belt" around it tied with a piece of leather cord). I finally got one for myself. It's also good for taking to dinners or parties where the hosts don't drink coffee, so they don't make any for their guests after dinner. Quel rude! I just whip out my little Chemex and help myself. :-p

capcom said...

Good theory Thrasher! Hmmmmmmmm.

DesignerMama said...

Ahhh, expecting flight 815 but not expecting it to crash... hadn't thought of that before!! Good idea, TLCM.

Melissa_Lossa said...

hey, everyone!

Last night was so great - I can't wait to watch it again!

I know this has been said already, but the book from the Book CLub was definately Carrie - one of the guys had a paperback version with a red and white image, and I recognized the cover. I have to say that's pretty interesting - Juliet's favorite book is about a young girl with telekinetic powers. More interesting is the fact that Benry strongly objects to that kind of book.

This episode also made me question my belief that the Others are the Dharmas. Aside from Tom and the older woman at the Book Club, no one seems old enough to have been from the original group. I agree that everyone snapped into action when the plane crashed - perhaps this sort of things has happened before, and most of the folks in Othertown are actually survivors of other crashes.

oxillini said...

i just took the stephen king as a little tip of the cap from tptb to king, an admitted huge lost fan.

DiggityDirge said...

Hey all,

Some great topics going here. I love it!! I posted this late last night in the other room. Wanted to get some feedback.

Did anyone else see the theme of tension between Ben & Juliett. I think we are being setup for later epi's to see Ben and Juliett disagree to the point where one of the following items might occur:

Juliett leaves the camp.

Juliett falls in love with Jack and switches sides. Her name is Juliett after all.

Help the captured Losties escape

Revolt against Ben's leadership

Here's my basis what I saw:

Juliett doesn't seem happy on the island or with the way things are going. At the opening scene of the epi, she is crying and playing music to remind her of something and make her happy.

Right before the crash when the house begins shaking, Juliett is scolding a member of the book club who disagreed with the book choice and implied Ben would not stoop as low as too come. Juliett is in the middle of saying "Here I am thinking that free will still acutally exists on this...." and then the house shakes. When then find out Ben = Henry. Ben also seemed bummed to be booted out of book club. (theme being she is leading a group without him)

There is also a mean exchange of looks between Juliett and Ben when Jack has Juliett hostage. Jack says to open the door or she dies, and Ben says if he opens the door she dies anyway. Juliett gives Ben of look of shock, and then Ben locks her in the room.

At the end of the episode, Ben commends Juliett for her work. She replied quite rudely thanks.

The "others" are supposed to be good people. When Jack floods the hatch, Ben locks Juliet in with Jack to drown or survive. (I'm sure he new they'd survive. I don't think they are under water. Juliett was on land to catch Sawyer way too fast.)

Anyway, I just wondered if Juliett questions Ben's goodness and his actions as a leader. Or it could all be a setup

Dennis said...

RyaNDrumZ said...Do we actually even know if the pilot was killed? Maybe the monster just took him away to bring him back to his people across the island...

Yes. In the "Pilot" episode (ironic title), Kate and Charlie get seperated from Jack when running from the monster. Then she finds the airplane wings on the ground, and sees the pilot's body up in the trees. If he wasn't dead, he wasted a lot of Dharma ketchup!

thinbluemime said...

Juliet is pregnant. There are no children in the others village. Why would an expecting mother (Juliet) be upset (at the beginning of the episode) in a childless village? WHERE are the CHILDREN ?

blueheron13 said...

diggitydirge,

After reading all the comments, I'm thinking that both ideas may true--it (the way the failed escape attempt) was a setup AND Juliet disapproves of Benry's tactics.

Melissa_Lossa said...

I totally agree about the tension between Juliet and Benry.

If the Others are really a couple of Dharmas, who have then collected survivors of other disasters, maybe Juliet is a recent arrival. She's accepted her home in their village, but she's not happy about it.

When she was playing the song "Downtown," it seemed to really mean something to her - I got the impression that she was feeling a little nostalgic, maybe because there is not Downtown for her to go to anymore.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Also, on the topic of Kate/Jack/Sawyer - does anyone think that Kate's going to be asked to choose - not who she's going to be with, but who the Others will set free? That would be the harder choice. Then, if she decided to set Sawyer free, Sawyer would feel abandoned because she's staying behind with Jack and sending him out on his own, and Jack would be disappointed because she left him in captivity.

tlcm said...

DiggityDirge said...
don't think they are under water. Juliett was on land to catch Sawyer way too fast.

I think you're right, they are not under water. juliett said it was used to be used for dolphins. think of the big tanks at sea world that hold dolphins, whales, etc. I think jack is in an examination room attached to the tank. I imagine it is very close to where kate and sawyer are being held.

DesignerMama said...

thinbluemine... why do you say Juliet is pregnant? Did I miss something?

I think the children are in another camp.

ular98 said...

Ladies will understand this. Don't you think Kate is horrified that they gave her shoes identical to Juliet's? The nerve of those men!! lol

ular98 said...

That first pic. of the group standing outside has a young girl in it. So maybe any children were in school or something?

RyaNDrumZ said...

Dennis, Thanks for clearing that up, The pilots body was in the trees. But now this, how do we know it was the pilot? I'm at work so I can't really tell you, but it could just be the co-pilot that was thrown out or another passenger in the trees and they just thougt it was the pilot who just got killed.

We need to find out or get a shot of the body in the trees...

FYSB said...

Re: Kelvin and the button

Kelvin was DI. The inhabitants of Benrytown (Benrites? Benrians? Bennese?) are familiar with DI, but may not have known about the button when the plane crashed, but Benry did spend a bit of time in the hatch as a prisoner and likely input the numbers himself when Locke was trapped under the map door. So he knew when he came back to the camp that someone had been manning the button.

And why were the Bennese experimenting on the bears? If DI went under a while ago (as evidenced by the disrepair, rust, etc.) what were the Bennites doing fairly recently (ie, the polar bear)?

Dennis said...

I finally got caught up with all the comments since yesterday. Here are a few thoughts although some of these are a little late...


capcom said... I wonder if we will see that jack eventually had regrets for not saving Shannon's father by blowing off his condition as too far gone, realizing it later. Say, he realizes that he actually picked Sara to save, just because she was a pretty female, or something to that effect. Maybe that's Jack's deep seated nagging conscience problem. Just a guess.

Jack didn't save Shannon's father because he was a drunk driver. I doubt he has any regrets, considering the miraculous outcome of Sarah surgery.


mountain girl said... i thought this episode was supposed to explain Jack's tattoos. still no info on that, huh?

I updated Lostpedia recently about one of Jack's tattoos. I think the "5" with the "compass/clock" marks represents how Jack conqured his fear by letting it in for 5 seconds. (from the "Pilot").

The Chinese symobls translate to "Hawk in the expansive sky" or "Eagles high up cleaving the sky". Maybe it's "Fly Like An Eagle" and he's a big Steve Miller Band fan.


DiggityDirge said... Here's my predictions ... Danielle will be revealed as one of the "others." Just seems so strange to me she has never found the others village, and always has the illusion of being an island desolate like the other costumes.

Nope, she's just crazy. From the overhead shot of the island, it seems like a pretty big island.

blueheron13 said...I can now accept that the tummult resulting from Desmond not pushing the button caused the plane to break up, but what I'm still wondering is what caused the plane to lose its instruments and turn around (back toward Fiji) about two hours before the crash?

If the plane flew over the electromagnetically-enhanced island on the way to LA, the controls could have went out, then when they turned around, they flew over the island again and got hit by the EMP.

I think that Jack may be under water, but in an aquarium setting there at the zoological facility, and not out in the ocean. But you might be right...

Yep. Kind of like Sea World. It looks like the room they would have used to tattoo the sharks.

JGZ350 said...

Good Afternoon all-

I have finally caught up with all the post and wow, what a wealth of points to ponder.

I have a couple of questions:

1. Ethan indicated it was a 'work in progress' as far as getting the plumbing fixed. So, is it safe to say Ethan is with Juliet? It would seem that way, hence the tension between Juliet and Ben.

2. Did we see Cindy or someone similiar to her in Othertown when they went out to look at flight 815?

3. What's up with the grilled cheese sandwich? Maybe a clue?

hey scoutpost-
sorry to hear you were at a viewing par-tay where nobody like the premiere. I can't believe that people are rating the premiere as a 1. It was a great premiere and one heck of a way to kick off S3.

RyaNDrumZ said...

FYSB - The polar bears/sharks are all running around the island/the ocean. Were these animals trained to be some type of security mechanism, as well as the smoke too. They had the cages, they had the aquariums to hold these creatures inside captive. After training them and were done with everything, they let them go so they can use them to secure their island. Or the sharks and bears excaped. Or they wanted to see how these animals react in the environment without being caged and are now observing them as they roam around...I don't know, just trying to speculate.

hbas said...

My husband thinks the Stephen King book is Hearts in Atlantis.

DiggityDirge said...
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ular98 said...

Since Walt has been gone the polar bear has been gone too. Maybe the animals died from the experiments and Walt just did some telekinesis type thing with the residual images. The sharks, etc was dead/broken whatever as well.

DiggityDirge said...

Dennis said... Nope, she's just crazy. From the overhead shot of the island, it seems like a pretty big island.

I agree it looked big. But according to Ben/Henry, Goodwin could get to the tail section in a hour if he runs. Unless Goodwin is a marathon runner, the tail was within 8 to 10 miles of the village. (using a 7 minute mile as an average, which is normal for someone who isn't a pro runner)

And we know the fuselage was a "two day hike" from the tail section.

I guess my point with Danielle is if she has been on the island as long as she said she has, at some point wouldn't you explore as much of it as possible to gain intelligence about what is going on?

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