Desmond awakens and discovers that he's on the island. Bummer.
Guess the island really wasn't done with him yet, huh?
Ladies, he looks good though, doesn't he?
Tuesday, April 06, 2010
Happily Ever After - Season 6, Episode 10
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Don't take this the wrong way. I understand why you feel the way you do. But there's no such thing as happily ever after no pun intended.
Just because Charlie seen Claire, Desmond seen Penny, Daniel seen Charlotte doesn't mean they will fall in love and live happily ever after.
I still say these people aren't really happy in the FS. Their lives may "seem" better but it's just to bland. Just like Charlie said the other time line is real. It may not be perfect it may have chaos and death but it's real. I'd chose real happiness over fake happiness no matter how short lived it was.
the last 5 season's wouldn't be meaningless if the sideways stick's because as i said all the sacrifices of the original timeline were"borrowed" by the sideways. Like i mentioned faraday doesn't have to die because lost 1.0 dan already did die for the cause in both timelines. The only stucky point is if smokey is free, So desmond has to make sure the candidates still do something important in the sideways. They will have the best of both worlds in the sideways. Dan is a musician, but he also remembers being a physacist and most importantly is alive. All the losties will remmeber stuff from the original timeline, they will just be spliced in the sideways from the orginal.
I wonder if sideways locke is bleeding through like desmond and charlie.
As some have said about how a locke wedding confrontation seems on the verge of happening in the sideways and i think that may be the final piece to smokey's final game plan. He needs to kill all the candidates in the sideways to prevent "nothing is irreversible" jack or desmond from bringing the island back in play
i think it's simple the cost for the better outcomes in the sideways is a dead jacob, sunken island, and a free smokey. So it's the final timeline, but if desmond can raise the island and get a candidate there then smokey loses and there is a new jacob. The candidate must be able to put up with mad electromagnatism in order to go the island and live their and not go mad or die. Hawkings is trying to enjoy the sideways while she canl. A new jacob will mean the cycle continues of the timeline changing.
i think jacob isn't superhuman he is just immune to electromagnatism like desmond.
i like how widmore or dharma basically set up a mini orchid on the hydra island.
i think ben destroyed the vault in the orchid with all the metal. i bet the 2007 orchid is messed up so that no one but desmond would be able to withstand the electromagnetism in there to turn the wheel again. Locke was able to turn the wheel because it was the wheel in a timeflash form an earlier period before ben fried the vault in the orchid.
What if that's only half the story?
What if the reason the MIB needs to escape so badly is that he is uniquely capable of escaping only while reality is split?
What if he is trying to work within a window of time that he's known existed since 1977 and he knows if he's to get out - he has to do it while the universe is in an unstable place.
Juliet set off the bomb and it essentially turned the island into an unstable isotope. If the timelines converge - it's like adding that last electron to the atom.
The MIB can escape but only while the island is unstable.
Widmore is working to stablize the island as quickly as possible and that's going to mean another gigantic release of energy.
And it'll be complicated enough that a mere martyr won't work. They need to live through it somehow.
And Desmond will have to perform this task because he's the only one who can perform it and live through it - stabilizing the universe - and trapping the MIB on the island forever.
Also, as much as I did not miss the island story (was this one of the only episodes with NO scenes on the island?), I'm super excited for next week. We only have one character who hasn't had a centric yet, so I don't think it's a spoiler to discuss a little.
A friend of my brother's wrote this on his blog, and I thought it was awesome enough to share:
What the writers actually accomplish with Desmond episodes is staggering. On the one hand, these are the episodes that are the most out there in terms of WTF-ness. In between the time-traveling, and the EMPs, and the fact that the rules of quantum mechanics don't apply to Desmond except to make his clothes disappear, the writers really let their nerd flags fly here.
But on the other hand, these are among the most emotionally heart-wrenching episodes the show has. Go watch the ending of "The Constant." Hell, the ending of this one. Despite all the sci-fi flying around the room, the writers created a character in Desmond who people can identify with, and then they gave him an epic backstory to defy all the other backstories on the show. All Desmond wants to do is get back to Penny, and everything in the universe -- the Dharma Initiative, the Others, Jack Shephard, John Locke, Widmore, and even time and space itself -- conspire against that purpose.
And that's why the viewers root for him, this poor guy, who asked his father-in-law for his daughter's hand and was told he deserved nothing, who was trapped on an Island for three years with no-one for company but the meanest screw to ever walk a turn at Shawshank, who had to press a button every 108 minutes for three years, who was flung across space and time and the laws of physics themselves, and all he wants to do is return to his one true love.
That's why the writers hang the sci-fi stuff on him. Because he might be the only character who makes it work. And he not only makes it work, he knocks it out of the park. His episodes are tremendous, and tonight's was no exception.
lost2010, while I feel for you for having to sit through a centric where you don't like the character, I'm glad that the writers realized that Des is the most popular character on the show, and gave him the most important episode so far.
@SG - No offense taken. I just want Juliet's death to mean something other. And if they need to 'fix' it so that the alt never happened. Then that sort of means she died for nothing. And she was my absolute favorite character. . .even better than Sawyer. . .and you know how much I like Sawyer. ;)
Okay, I give up. I hit post and it appears to eat my post. So I retype it the best I can remember and post again. Then the first one shows up.
Was anyone else disappointed that we didn't see "Desmond Hume will be my constant" in Dan's notebook?
But Sayid's Girl, they are practically all dead in Island time. Does that make them happy?
i think ben destroyed the vault in the orchid on jacob's orders to make it so desmond is the only one that could withstand the electromagnetism and turn the wheel in 2007. locke could only turn the wheel because it was a past version of the wheel in a time flash.
in the bible it says 10,000 years to us is a second to God. I think that jacob is just like desmond and can deal with he electromagnetism. Just like dan's rocket took hours to arrive on the island instead of minutes. Time passing on the island is relative. Like the rocket, you body might age 2 minutes, but you mind would perceive that 2 hours had passed.
Answered my own question. Not in Portland is the only other episode where NO action takes place on the island.
Pretty heavy discussions here. I'm beginning to understand that the FS is something that happened after Jughead, and Daniel now realizes that maybe that bomb was a mistake and things need to be corrected. But how does this all tie in with the "game" between Jacob and MIB and the island being a cork?
Okay, I suppose if I pretent that Clementine Phillips and Charlie Hume are going to meet up in the future and have a son named Jacob. . .and that he will eventually trap the MIB and keep him in a bottle for a few millenia. . .eh, I can drum up a little interest in what happens to Desmond. ;)
Because it would appear that neither of them exist in the ALT.
(No, I can't just stop theorizing - it'd be like asking me to stop breathing.)
@maven, interesting that FSDan thinks it was he (him?) who set off Jughead, when in reality it was Juliet.
@AL: I thought for sure Desmond would see "Desmond is my constant" on the other side of the journal, too! :)
I guess technically there were some island scenes since they were doing the EM experiment at Hydra. Not main island scenes though!
@maven, yeah, by that I meant no main island scenes.
I came up with a different theory while I was writing my episode review for TV Verdict. Maybe it's out there, but I think it makes sense:
"What if this alternate timeline is Widmore’s doing? It would explain why he and Eloise seem to know so much about the sideways world. We know that he’s returned to the island to stop the Man in Black and save the island. He’s said several times that the alternative to his success is that the world would simply “cease to be.” What if this LA X shake-up is his solution—a compromise with the Man in Black, perhaps, or a preemptive strike meant to do what Daniel’s original explosion didn’t: to fundamentally alter the world and make it so certain things never happened.
We know that his plan involves Desmond being able to withstand a massive electromagnetic event. Perhaps that event is another explosion. A bigger one. One created by harnessing the collective power of all of the pockets of energy on the island—the ones Widmore needs Jin to find for him. An explosion that big could sink an island, don’t you think? An explosion that big might even cause time to fold back on itself, giving humanity a cosmic do-over in ways Farraday and his notebook couldn’t possibly have imagined."
@Erich - I like that better. That would mean that the alt is just as real as the island. And that the suffering of our losties wasn't negated - it would mean that because of their suffering - this cosmic do-over was allowed.
Hey Lost2010 and Sayid's Girl, I think I have it figured out. It's like the Bizarro World episodes of Seinfeld. Elaine at first likes Bizarro Jerry, George and Kramer. They are good people who do good things, but ultimately she finds because she is not she must return to original selfish Jerry, George and Kramer (or Jack and Sawyer).
Did anyone else notice that there were NO cast credits last night?
If the sideways world is technically "after" what's happening on the island now, sideways Des could still offer the 815 crowd the chance to choose the lives and loves they never knew they had — like he did when he found Penny and asked her out. Who's to say Farraday couldn't woo Charlotte, or Charlie couldn't be Aaron's stepdad? Their choices wouldn't be this timeline or crashing on an island. They would simply be given the choice of what parts of both lives they want to combine into their real (sideways) life. Mmmm. Now that's good redemption!
@Memphish - That must be it. Because otherwise they just like kicking Suliet fans over and over and over and over. ;)
That's an interesting theory lost2010. Yeah blogger is being crazier than usual today.
AL It's true what you say but it doesn't necessarily mean it would be next. If you don't watch promos you don't know when. Sorry to anyone who doesn't watch promos but the cat is kind of already out of the bag.
memephish
Point taken. Maybe I shoud have said I'd take real no matter what it was. I don't think the ultimate outcome is that everyone is happy.
Maybe it's just to find love. All 3 men in this episode had love even though it was short lived, (of course Des is up in the air on this ) they had it. They don't have that in the FS.
I saw both regular and guest cast credits AL.
AL- it's OK with me if you want to discuss the next centric Lostie. I saw the first 2 seconds of the promo after the show.
@memphish, weird. ABC in NYC did not air the guest credits.
Also, for anyone who knows next week's title, I think it's both cool and fairly predictable.
@SG - But in the alt, they have the hope of love. . .and hope is almost as powerful as love itself if not more. On the island, Nadia is dead and Shannon is dead. . .and unless Sayid fancies Claire, Kate, or Zoe. . .I'd say he's done with love there.
@AL - I wasn't sure if the title next week referenced someone we already know or someone we haven't met yet.
Does anyone get a deja vu feeling when Desmond told George to get the 815 manifest and that he has to show them all something? Reminds me of Locke, Ben and Eliose trying to convince all the O6 that they all had to go back to the island.
@lost2010, um, it's one of the character's names.
Also, the plane manifest should be interesting, if we get to see a shot of it. Wonder if Wallace is on there.
i think dan realizes that the cost of getting charlotte back and being alive is that the island is underwater and that makes smoeky win because it will be the last iteration of the timeline. if desmond doesn't do something with the 815'ers in the sideways.the dan and everyone will have traded personal happiness in the short term for the end of the world in the sideways. Either way i think smokey is free in the sideways for the moment.
to go with my theory that locke is mib in the sideways, when he fell on the lawn and got sprayed with the sprinkler locke smiled. Maybe it was because flocke can now enjoy his body in relation to water. Even in a wheelchair smokey appreciates having a real body again. If widmore or jughead caused the sideways, we still need to know how everyone escaped the island in or after 1977.
@AL - Oh, it's not. . .well, I don't suppose I should say because that must be the next one then. No wonder I never feel terribly spoiled to know the episode titles and centricities - I forget them as soon as I click off the page.
@lost2010, if you go to Lostpedia and type in Sseason 6, you can see the title on the chart up top.
im starting to think that widmore made sure that shannon wasn't on flight 815 in the sideways so that sayid would be all heartless for his showdown with keamy in the kitchen, partly because he doesn't have nadia in the sideways. Shannnon may still show up and give sideways sayid something to live for, widmore is just holding her back like he held back penny from desmond. To keep both men on thier paths in both timelines.
sayid being part of desmonds whole thing with penny on the freighter gives me hope sayid is still gonna come up big for team jacob. Zoe might be special to flocke's plan, why else would sayid break the one guy's neck but tell zoe to run. She will be part of the island sinking. That's what has me leaning towards the the island sinking in 2007 and that is the downside to the sideways is that smokey got free. dan know's the sideways is flawed and desmond could fix the sideways if the candidates do what they were supposed to do in the original timeline. Smokey literally stole the game board from the candidates in the sideways and desmond has to restore the board.
@AL - Okay, I forgot all about that one. Yeah, I wouldn't mind discussing that a bit.
the fact remains that widmore is pulling the 815'ers strings in the sideways through keamy and others and is trying to have desomnd do something in the sideways to.
AL, I normally try to ignore the credits, but I saw Sonya Walger this week. Weird that they have the option to not air. Must be very spoiler-phobic at NYC affiliate.
2C- you bring up the "game" board- seems like we surely are still in a game with rules that can be "in violation of" as Eloise says. (boy is her hair white- hint hint?)
Re Desmond's ring on the plane in LA X. What if that is Desmond # 3 from the merged time-cake and eat it too Desmond? Married and having being successful? Hey- what if Widmore worked for him?
What is Desomond #3? There's been no hint of a third universe.
AL- if the two timelines converge, I assume they are going to have to mash together to make something different than both, to reconcile the discrepancies between them.
Morning LoCo's. Sorry don't have much to add...still just taking it all in!
memphish said...
Hey Lost2010 and Sayid's Girl, I think I have it figured out. It's like the Bizarro World episodes of Seinfeld. Elaine at first likes Bizarro Jerry, George and Kramer. They are good people who do good things, but ultimately she finds because she is not she must return to original selfish Jerry, George and Kramer (or Jack and Sawyer).
Yep that sounds about right. :)
lost2010
The only one I seen with the hope of love in the FS is Locke possibly Desmond. And maybe Sun and Jin. But after she's looses her baby I don't think they'll be very happy. That's just a guess on the baby I don't know anything. :)
@SG - Sun won't lose the baby - it'll be like the tomato that didn't know it was supposed to die. It'll live.
Not only that - but Sun will be rushed to the hospital and her circumstance will be so dire than only the best fertility expert around can help her. . .Juliet Burke.
And when Sawyer shows up to question Jin Kwon in connection to the murders, Juliet will kick him out of Sun's room.
And he'll demand that they discuss it. . .over coffee.
Shhhh. Don't ruin my little dream. . .no matter how unlikely it is. ;)
I think Sun will lose the baby in the FS, if she lives at all. Because THAT baby is not Ji Yeon. Ji Yeon was conceived about a month after the crash.
Uhm, didn't you get the wink?
Ok lost2010 I won't. :)
Great episode last night.
One thing I thought was odd.
When Desmond gave Charles that IV stand beatdown,he opened up a gash in his forehead that should have bled profusely and required many stiches to close.Wid merely blotted it with a cloth and was good to go. Maybe he's just been spending too much time in the Orchid room lately.
The FS is like Lloyd in Dumb & Dumber saying to himself "Find a happy place,find a happy place."
Sayid's Girl,I hope things are better today.
Thanks TAV and bigdog. I think things will be ok. Things aren't conclusive yet though.
Great comment Locos!
I like your idea about Zoe being pivotal to Flocke 2costa, it does seem odd that Sayid let her go.
Amy I really like your friend's points about Dez-centric eps, I agree completely.
That whole scene with Sayid to me seemed off.
If this experiment happened the same night they took Des off the sub, then why isn't Sayid soaking wet?
Lost2010- I like your little dream!
A couple of rewatch things maybe not mentioned yet-
The model ship in Charles' office-Black Rock looks like.
The metal sculpture in the hall outside his office- Jack Bender I'll bet.
Des & Charlie's bar was call "JAX"
Dan's idea to combine classical & rock- like combining the more sedate F/side and island times.
Of course the big "choice" discussion in the bar- Charlie's voicing fan protest that it doesn't seem like a choice when it's so manipulated.
Noticed that Eloise is again telling Des to forget about Penny- just as she did in telling him that he could not buy the engagement ring.
did you see the black and white scale painting in widmores office?
i think one of the candidates will have to become the new jacob in the sideways to retrap smokey
i think widmore has gone to great lengths to set up la as the proxy gameboard,since the island is underwater.
just like desmond and faraday used equipment to make the rat mind time travel, widmore may not need the island to make someone travel in time in the sideways, he might just need the coils like on hydra island.
In theory if you went to the island again in the sideways at different coordinates you could land there at a time before it was sunken. fOR INSTANCE HAD THE SIDEWAYS PILOT FLOWDOWN INTO THE WATER TOWARD THE ISLAND, they might have landed on the island in 1976. The difference was the swan didn't yank the plane down.
i think if nothing is done in the sideways then smokey wins because there is no jacob to tweak the timeline to avert the apocolypse. i think the sideways is special because it is coexiting with the other timeline, in other iterations of the timeline there is just one timeline and changes affect the whole thing. History just course corrects.
Yes- I think the scale painting has been mentioned. Bet that was Bender too.
Oh- and I thought Dominic Monaghan was excellent- especially in the bar scene.
finally caught up...
This thought just struck me: MIB keeps saying that if they follow him they will get what they've always wanted...like Richard seeing his wife, or Claire getting Aaron, or whatever...I'm beginning to think that the FS are Smocke's creation, a fantasy world where our Losties get 'what they most want'. But not perfectly, there is always a price to be paid (Locke's ability to walk, Des is alone, so is Jack, Charlie still has his addiction, Sawyer still has his revenge issues...)
As Desmond seems to be "special" in a positive way, I think Kate is the opposite. She is still on the run, still accused of murder, and not much changed from what we saw pre-Jughead. I wonder why that is?
maven,
yes, Des asking for the manifest reminded me of gathering the O6 to go back to the island. I thought it would be Jack that would do it, though, because he seemed to be noticing things that "weren't right" with the FS.
Amused,
I agree. That's what I've been thinking for a while. It's Smokey's creation and it's not "real". All that seems to be good in the FS will unravel because reality will seep into it.
But for goodness sakes if it's not real why are you wasting half my last season with it? That's my fear. Will I ever really want to rewatch What Kate Does? At this point I highly doubt it.
I heard something on a podcast that I didn't thnk of concerning the 815 manisfest.
Desmond says he wants it because he needs to show them something.
He needs to show the passengers on 815 the other time line. Like Charlie did for him. Although I hope he's not going to try and drown everyone. :)
I really like this idea but I don't know how he'd do it.
i think desmond will take them to the lamppost station
Interesting quote from the EW recap:
If you've been a Sideways hater, and you remain one after last night's episode, you may as well call it a wrap on your Lost interest and skip ahead to the rest of your post-Lost life.
I saw that too AL, and then I stopped reading the recap. Oh well LOST we had a good 5 year run. I think I'm going to rewatch some S1 this weekend to try to recapture the magic.
That's good news to me Amy, that FS really moved me and I've opened my mind **somewhat** for the FSs. Not that I care at all yet for the rest of them (except for Dr.Linus) but I really liked Des' FS, and the fact that it actually connected the Island time with the FS, regardless of how tenuously at this point, it helped. But I won't be rewatching What kate Does again either, Memphish.
That's what I and my nephew were thinking SG, is Des going to get them all on a bus and drive off a cliff? :-o
I think it depends on what kind of re-watch I'm doing. If it's just selected episodes, then obviously, a lot gets skipped. Jay and Jack are doing a full re-watch starting in June. I may do that with them.
Totally random, non-sequitor comment... I just found out that a song I wrote is going to be performed in a Broadway theatre as part of a benefit at the end of April :)
That's awesome Amy Lynn! Congratulations!
Cool Amy Lynn Congrats.
Good for you AL- what kind of song is it?
Congrats to Amy Lynn! I remember her great lyrics during DCaaPB!
WOW...5 hours of LOST on 5/23! Awesome and bittersweet.
Agreed on this ep needing 2 hours... it was excellent links, but felt too spoon fed at times (not complaining...did like it... just love the drama too).
I'm not done catching up on comments yet, but had a few of my own and qs...
AL and Lost it - here' hoping James and Juliette will be there too for coffee! weird @ Des's ring on the plane.
Lostit- I also wonder about Ellie and Charles and which "side' they might be on...I wonder if Des doesn't know the "end" right now, and knows Sayid was part of the plan all along...(either Wids, or the proper final outcome) that's why he goes so easily, perhaps Wid also knows he's a means to an end... And so much for "unfeeling" Sayid- it may not have been emotion packed, but there was concern and loyalty...
AmyLynn- I see where you are going with your "want" list... but, while I think your list is absolutely valid, I think there are several core "wants" to choose from for our characters... maybe its a matter of finding out that you didn't really know what your heart wanted? Ex. Des only wanted Wid's approval for Penny's sake, Sayid only wanted Nadia to live, to be with him...Sawyer thought he wanted/respect, revenge, but he really wants to be loved/accepted...
How about this... 815 made it to LAX BECAUSE the island was sunk....no island, no EMforce, nothing to draw it in, b/c it was already under water?
So... Penny MILTON... does that mean in the FS, perhaps Ellie is her mother, but Charles is not her father? She's Daniels half sister- but which half? (Loved the stadium scene... so many twists to that one...Des in Penny's place, Penny in Jack's place... where is someone to be in Des's place?)
I want to know what Des has to show them from the Flight manifest... and who is "them"? (ellie and charlies? charlie? the 815ers?)
Congratulations AL;another step along your road to greatness.
ostit-i'm guessing with you, life with Pen is Des's sacrifice...
SG- hope everything is ok with you and yours...
2c said I think they were toughening up desmond in the swan to be resistant to electromagnatism. The failsafe key was his first real test. and charlie could see the old reality in near death experiences in the sideways. and Dan Faraday is the musician that designed the looking glass station.
I like these! Perhaps Charlie also flashed on his near death experiences ON the island.
Re: Des and Pen, the line Keamy gave Jin "some people just aren't meant to be together"- now has more weight.... whether they are or aren't, there's a "supposed" to? But who determines that?'
Lost 2010- I like your little dream! Count me in! And I agree with the tomato being JiYeon... thought that as soon as that ep was over!
Thats it for me.... I decided I'm hanging in there till the end, like the eps, love em, or lump them. I didn't spend 5.5 years engrossed to give up with a month or more to go...sigh!
Thanks, everyone... :)
JT, it's a Fiddler on the Roof parody, actually. LOL.
5 hours of LOST? YAY. (Also, holy crap, my poor boyfriend. 5/23 is our two year anniversary)
AL- Belated congrats. I admire people with musical talent! Good for you!
if that kid that told mib that he couldnt kill sawyer was truly young jacob, as many have speculated. I think it's very interesting that sawyer could in fact see him as well as mib. Makes me think that jacob is just a man like desmond, that can put up with the eloectromagnatism on the island. I think jacob has been time jumping on the island since he was a kid. The jacob who got killed was just the oldest version of jacob. On faradays diagram he had "imaginary" time written. I think the island is going on imaginary time. Or at least time on the island doesn't pass or exist in the same way it does in the rest of the world. the fact that one of the 815'ers can replace jacob, seems to show jacob is just a man and may have been the first candidate. His touch is just a touch, but he spans so many time periods that jacob's touch has constant properties between timelines and realities. Young jacob is still around to mess up smokey's plan so he has to kill the remaining candidates and sink the island or young jacob could just change things again. Since penny exists in both timelines, when widmore tells desmond that the ones they care about will fail to be. I think that's because he knows thatr if mib wins he can go way back in the timeline to his own past and that would have dire effects on timelines,lost 1.0 and sideways. I think hawkings knows she has to lose the happily ever after in the sideways she is just trying to enjoy it while she can. i think smokey will win by default in the sideways if no jacob ascends, and that would mean it was the last iteration of the timeline.
Happy Birthday Lost2010! May all your Desmond-less dreams come true!
Happy Birthday lost2010!!
someone pointed out that smokey cant cross water and doesn't seem to go to the beach in smoke form. He did go by the creeks on the island, and i'm not sure but i think he has been around the rain. Someone theorized that he can't go by the salt water. The salt may have something to do with the electromagnetism. Also salt is known to trap or kill evil spirits and demons like on supernatural. I think it may have to do with the ash and not the salt. If the ash that binds smokey is volcanic ash, then i bet there is a lot of volcanic ash in the sand on the beach and volcanic rock in the water. Perhaps this is why smokey needs a body to go over the ocean water and to the beach.
mib said that jacob took his humainty or body, so i don't think it's a stretch to think that mib's plan is to kill everyone and try to time travel to a time before jacob took his humanity. Mib might even prove to have been some really evil person, that we never found out about because he was stopped by jacob. Like think of a hitler that never rose to power that's soul was trapped on the island.
i also think it's a possibility that if there is any lockeness left in smokey, he is trying to kill all the candidates and use locke's form to become the new jacob himself, because locke wa sa candidate and thus go back and change mib's mom from going insane or whatever.
i was also thinking that if charlie bled through the sideways because of a near deasth experience, that drugs may also help you cross between alt realities. When locke gave boone the halucinagen and tied him up, locke had a vision of the smoke monster chasing him and shannon. They had never shown the monster before and boone's vision of him was right on the money. Rutherford and carlisle were both candidate names on the wall, what if boone was actually seeing one of the alt realites and in a past iteration of the timeline, where shannon got killed by smokey. Thats when she lost her candidacy, and thus always dies around the same time in everytime line. Think of desmond's many visions of charlie and claire, there are more than just one sideways.
Smokey CAN cross water, though. He was on the freighter
Congrats Amy!
Happy Birthday Lost2010!
I like your salt ideas 2costa. Does salt increase conductance? It's been a while since I was in the lab, I can't remember.
Do we know for sure that it was MIB as CS on the freighter? If Jacob was the one keeping people from dying before their island-saving purposes were completed, it seems more like Jacob would be saying to Mike that he could go now. Just sayin'.
Happy Birthday Lost 2010!
@Capcom, in this week's Geronimo Jack's Beard, Jorge sort of says that Smokey was Christian on the freighter.
Happy Birthday to Lost2010 (from another April baby)! Have a wonderful day.
Tx Amy. Although now I'm really confused. :-o
They also brought up an interesting discussion... when Shannon and Locke saw GiantWalt on the island, was that really Walt?
happy bdsay lost2010.
and a late congrats to Amy Lynn.
Thanks,guys!
And congrats Amy Lynn!
i doubt that was smokey on the freighter, that was christain for real.
walt was walt, dogen said to sayid that smokey would appear as someone that died
I think whenever Christian showed up in his burial suit and tennis shoes, he was not Smokey. When he showed up to Claire dressed differently and also in the cabin with Claire when he told Locke to move the island, it was Smokey.
I was listening to Jay and Jack's Lost Recap and they said not only was Desmond not wearing a wedding ring in Happily Ever After and was in LA X, but that his clothes and hair were different too. But Hurley and Jack remember him from the plane. Anyone have any ideas?
@memphish, I think it's probably just production continuity issues.
Were they really that lazy? If so, shame on them.
Well, they've acknowledged issues with the sonogram and other stuff like that, big stuff that they should have caught. Also, the blooper and continuity errors part on Lostpedia is really long for "Happily Ever After". I think they (rightly) focused on the story telling over the editing.
All signs seem to point to the fact that they are really being rushed through the second half of this season, so it's likely we'll see more errors.
They had months of a head start on the rest of us. To me the sloppiness is a mark of disrespect to the insane fans they know they've created. If this season has really been as sloppy as it's appeared to be, it just adds to the list my complaints about the sesason.
Well, it's either a very carefully choreographed mosaic that will all come together in the end and suddenly all these little things that seemed like continuity errors will be but threads in the tapestry.
Or they are winging it and being sloppy here at the end.
Let's hope considering all the time we've sunk into this show that the first one is true
lost2010, Sorry I'm late.I hope you had a great birthday.
Maybe Greg Nations;who is the continuity master,just took his vacation.
Yeah, he's wearing a different colored suit and shirt. And in LA X he has a little bit of stubble.
I wasn't sure Desmond traveled physically to the other time line when they put him in the box. But the different clothing may be pointing at that.
That might be why he was acting so weird when he came back.
i was thinking that for a time there were two desmonds on the plane the one whe saw in happily ever after and the one with a wedding ring that jack saw that was probably from the orginal timeline, where he was married to penny. Perhaps desmond was astrally projecting from the submarine while he was passed out.
for some reason the action in 2007 ties to 2004 in the sideways, why else would desmond go from 2007 to 2004 in the sideways. I think it is tied to the fact that the oceanic 6 were never supposed to leave and that tacked on 3 years to the timeline that would have been had they stayed.
2 questions i definetly want answered by the end of this thing are why the others demanded locke kill cooper and why sun didnt go to 1977 with the rest of the ajira 815'ers
Unh Huh-and where on earth did Sun get tomato seeds from on the island?
2costa, I like your idea about 2 Desmonds.
I think Sun didn't go to 1977 because she's not a candidate. Jin is.
that would mean frogurt is a candidate by that reasoning, but i agree most of the 815'ers were candidates at some point, so maybe he was.
i like the idea that the people that are dead in the original timeline are quicker to bleed over in the sideways. Charlie and Daniel seemed to cross over fast. I wonder who else is gonna die in the 2007 timeline and how that may affect their sideways bleed thrus. I also notice that the sideways doesn't seem to bleed over into the 2007 timeline, except for desmond, and maybe sun. I wonder if that means widmore and hawkings are gonna die soon in 2007.
perhaps that regina with the chains from the freighter was the reverse of charlie, where she was dead in the sideways or some other alt and wanted to kill herself to make things right.
i was also thinking that Desmond is the real candidate for being the new jacob. That is the sacrifice that widmore wants him to make. The wedding ring desmond that talked to jack on the plane was desmond from the future already doing his jacob thing with the timeline. I think desmond was reading like jacob on the plane too
FYI: Another great Lost event! Darlton is going to be interviewed by the NY Times and the feed will be in theaters around the country on May 20th 8PM.
Vote for Team Darlton in the Times 2010 Poll.
Too bad the broadcast interview won't be after the finale, it could have much more information in it.
LOL about the tomato seeds! X-D
Yeah, I'm really bugged by the difference in the painting in Widmore's office in this ep, with the black, and white, framing or matting. How or what in the world....?! There isn't enough time left to explain all these weird things that aren't just goofs.
well what we saw was widmore's l.a. office, where as the other office we saw was in london.
Actually 2Costa it's a case of changing frames within the same LA office. It's like the frames in the scene where Miles goes ghostbusting in LA which I think was confirmed as a set dressing error. You can see them here.
Lostit and 2c---perhaps that's what's on the manifest.... Desmond twice?
i see now memphis and capcom the black matting and the white matting, in the same office.
Tomato seeds...I don't really know, but I imagine she got whatever seeds she had from the foostuffs they could salvage from the wreckage...maybe the tomato slices from any of the sandwiches they had for food service. Plausible?
As for the manifest...imho I think Desmond is now on a mission to track down all the other ppl from 815 that he can find in order to show them what Charlie showed him. I shudder to think of how he will try to accomplish that.
Desmond on the plane: Who's to say he was there the whole time? He showed up in Jack's row, sat down, and then after Jack saves Charlie he can't find Desmond again, and Rose doesn't remember him. There's something funky going on there, and so I'm not surprised that Des was "different" after that. I think his FS is constantly in motion, changing in response to the actions of others.
From what Ellie Widmore said ('because you're not ready, Desmond') I have to imagine that there is a window of time where it's crucial that Desmond stay put and not rock the boat. Once that window closes then it will be safe for him to meet Penny. Charlie interfered, and now Desmond is going to do something that might mess everything up.
Yes, but was Charlie's interference a "good" thing for the 815ers (et al)... or is Ellie really altruistic and she knows best, and Charlies interference spells disaster?
And...if its all about "love" and once you've seen it, everything changes... do we also go back to Ben and Annie? If des is showing the 815ers "love" who does he show who to whom? (yeah follow that)
Pen and Des
Charlie and Claire
Rose and Bernard
Ben and Annie
Charles and Ellie?
Sayid and (Nadia or Shannon?)
Jack and (Sara, Kate, or his Dad?)
Sawyer and (parents, Kate or Juliette?)
and so on...
Oh, and Sun's garden has always bugged me too... but I never gave it as much thought as you all did here! I"m game for seeds from tomato slices, apple cores, and the like!
memphish, I sometimes think TPTB are just messing with us with some of these differences/changes. They know we look at every detail and they just want to see what we'll have to say about it.
Don't Rose and Bernard prove Jacob's point? Aren't they living happily ever after in their retirement beach house?
I didn't notice the scales picture differences while watching- but seems like that has to be intentional. I mean- to reframe and rehang a large picture on a set that probably had a one day shoot??
It probably is a nod back to Miles' pictures too- but what does it mean?
And they really went out of their way to point out that Des has no wedding ring in Happily Ever. But the F/side Des seems to be the one who sat next to Jack- per their hospital conversation- and that Des did have a ring.
Des is common to both changes- so maybe you are right Amused2b- and his world keeps changing.
Re the tomatoes- I checked and they can grow in Hawaii- and apparently indeterminate ones can form a perennial type plant there- although they face a lot of disease and insects. So one could limp along by itself I guess in a tropical setting. Of course- in the end you can always just say it's the polar bear , anything's possible on the island effect.
Oh- I just thought on the scales- maybe it's an "inside joke" !
amused2bhere
Yes, if there were fresh tomatoes on the plane sliced or otherwise Sun could have dried the seeds and planted them. I've done it.
Here's something my sister said. Some of you may like it the rest will hate it. :) I thought it was interesting.
Time has been shattered like a mirror. You now have 100s of distorted reflections of time that need to be pieced together in the right order. Right now the pieces are out of order and they're still working on getting them in the right order.
I don't think Eloise wanted Desmond to meet Penny because once he did she becomes his constant like she is in the island time line. She's not his constant in the FS because they've never met.
i think that jacob is the candidate's constant, at least within the 2007 timeline.
i think that hawkings didnt want desmond to meet penny because it would start the beginning of the end of the happily ever after with daniel. She wants to enjoy every minute she has with dan. i think the people that are dead in the island timeline are more conflicted in the sideways, maybe charlie would rather be dead in a world where he loved claire and dan would rather be ina world where he loved charlotte, than alive in the sideways. What would locke's motivation be to be dead in the island timeline and over being alive in the sideways. Dan never really got a chance to have a romance with charlotte in the island timeline, to me it made more sense that he loved her in the sideways and that was bleeding over to dan in the island timeline when he told charlotte he loved her.
I was thinking that the name changes between the alts were purposely put there to be clues to each person's role. Just as Widmore picked the name jeremy bentham for locke and got a laugh out of it, i think it's on purpose that the widmore clan are named hawkings and faraday in the island timeline. Clues to their skills in physics. I also think that desmond's real name isn't hume, just like bentham, widmore picked the name hume for desmond to cover up his true candidate name, with a modern philosophy chuckle for himself. If the sideways does not precede the island timeline, than i can only think that widmore is responsible for all the island people coming together in LA. I just wonder if the big showdown of the sideways is gonna take place at locke's wedding or at the museum fundraiser that eloise is planning
I like the mirror analogy.
But I just like analogies in general. :)
I think Desmond is a variable and Penny is a constant. And the reason Widmore has always been so concerned about Des is because of his ability to affect Penny. Because Penny's affect on Des is always good - she has a steadying - calming affect - she's constant. But Des on the other hand sends Penny's life into turmoil over and over again. He's variable.
to go with this name theme, penny's new name in the sideways was penny milton. Milton being the author of paradise lost. intersting in happily ever after that penny last name says paradise lost
ironic even
Oops, I forgot to make my point.
My point was that if Desmond is the variable who is stabilized by his constant Penny. Then, Eloise Hawking may not want Desmond finding his constant before he has affected whatever change needs to happen. He's variable only when separated from Penny in other words. Together, they're stable.
As evidenced by Desmond being the only one in the O6 storyline to see that going back to the island seemed a little mad. He was with Penny and he saw no need to change things. It's only when he's removed from Penny - his steadying influence that he is able to affect a change.
@2costa... interesting, listening to Geronimo Jack's Beard this week, Penny's name in the script was Mansfield. Wonder when and why it was changed.
@TOL - maybe it won't all be romantic love - it could be:
Ben and Alex (fatherly-type love)
Kate and Aaron (motherly-type love)
Not that I don't think Kate and Ben shouldn't get to fall in love like everybody else, but I just think that if it were all romantic love it would begin to feel a little formulaic.
And it did seem to be seeing all of Aaron's things that clicked the switch in Kate's brain.
2costa - You said that my theory about Sun not being a candidate because she didn't flash implied that Frogurt was a candidate.
Not necessarily. Frogurt flashed with all the other losties when the donkey wheel was turned. But that's not the flash I was referring to. I was referring to flashing off the Ajira flight back into 1977. I just think that if Sun was a candidate, she would have gone back to 1977 with the rest of them.
In rewatching "Happily Ever After" tonight, I may have solved the mystery of the scales of justice painting in Widmore's office. LOL One is framed white and one framed black. We never see both sides of the office at once. Why couldn't he have two paintings of the same thing framed in the black and white of the rocks on the scales?
I haven't rewatched to be sure of the room layout- but you know if you look at the screencaps linked above- it looks like two different paintings- or one more finished than the other. For instance- the lower left bit of blue is in a different place in the two.
I think you are right Maven!
Oops- I mean the red in the left lower corner.
Also, the bit of red on the top right-in the dark frame it is at the very top of the scale, in the white frame it is nearer the crossbar.
it's definitely 2 different paintings, or same painting with oposite color mats on different sides of the same office. The question becomes, why didn't he have inverse colored mats on the same painting in his london office in the island timeline. Was widmore not enlightened about the balance of the scales until the sideways?
lostit, not all the 815'ers flashed in the first flash, claire was left behind in 2007. I think if it was a s simple as sun didn't flash because she wasn't a candidate, then illanna and smokey would both know sun is not a candidate already.
scale paintings
You can magnify by clicking on them.
i think it's possible that claire and sun didn't flash because of the injections they had from the others. Desmond was also taking similar injections. Perhaps dharma had a injection that stabilized you on the island, in case there was any flashing their personnel would stay fixed in time and space on the island. For all we know charlie wouldn't have flashed either because of the injections he took from the palate drop.
mansfield is the ancestral home of lord byron, who was a romantic dude. It is also adjacent to sherwood forest.
D. H. Lawrence, in Lady Chatterley's Lover, described Mansfield as "that once romantic now utterly disheartening colliery town".
milton is also a residential area in the the city portsmouth. Wasn't the black rock from portsmouth
Maybe those two different frames are in Widmore's office because we're not sure if he's on the black or white side yet?
it seems like charles widmore in the sideways knows he has to bring the 815'ers together and that's why he is hell bent on having charlie pace play with daniel at the charity event and he sent desmond to break the news to hawkings so that he would get wind of penny. Eloise on the other hand seem to not want these meetings to occur anytime soon, for example she doesn't seem to care if charlie plays the benefit.
JT
The "background" of the paintings I thnk are similar but different. There looks like there are different amounts of black and white stones in each paniting too. But there is more white in both paintings.
I also found it interesting that Desmond is the only character to have two mirror/reflective images in the FS. The one at the airport and the one in the door when he goes to pick up Charlie.
Did TPTB say that Desmond's ring thing is a prop goof? I forget, but I thought that someone said they said something about it.
If it wasn't, maybe it was married 815-Des who was time tripping on the plane, and FS-Des was the single Des. I dunno, it's too hard keeping the real mysteries in line, I can't handle the goofy things too.
SG- I also really really like your friend's smashed mirror pieces analogy.
2c- Jacob being a constant makes a lot of sense....
Lost2010-- I think that's where I was kinda going with my list earlier, but you said it better ... ex. Who is Sawyer's deepest love/desire really for? romance with Kate? or his parents? or Clementine? AL's list was valid too, just seems that the love doesn't have to be romantic, even Jack and son... then the Ben thing threw me off (Ok.. I want the mystery of Annie solve....i'll be honest!)
Now, every time I post here on a monday, the next post says... "NEW POST!" We'll see!
they said annie was just there to show young ben could love another person and in that episode it related to his obsession with julliette...
"Christian Shepard" is playing a doctor on Trauma.
i know i always talk about hurley's friend dave, that's like my annie. On one of the podcast's tptb said the whole dave thing would be explained. Someone pointed out that libby's late husband was named david something. Perhaps hurley was seeing libby's dead husband. it would really clarify libby's thing with hurley including santa rosa. when they first showed dave, we didn't know hurley could see dead people.
Happy Lost Day!
If you want to gaze upon Desmond on a regular basis, check out this new print available today at 2PM eastern. (Sorry if this is off-topic, I tried to tie it into last week's ep!)
Happy LOST day!
Happy LOST Day! Tonight's episode marks the end of the second "act" of Season 6. After tonight's episode, we'll be 2/3 of the way through the last season of LOST.
@TOL - I've always wanted to find out about Ben and Annie too. It's just that I'm trying to cut down on my 'impossible' wish list and Sawyer/Juliet tops Ben/Annie.
I have finally decided that I am a little bit more okay with Desmond's storyline after this episode. What always irritated me about him was that he was supposed to be dead. I mean, Charlie drowns - he dies. Shannon gets shot - she dies. etc. etc. But Desmond gets blown up and he's running around perfectly healthy. So, if he's not really a normal regular human I guess that actually makes it a little better. He's like the cheerleader on Heroes I suppose (not that I watched Heroes after the first season and I found out the cheerleader was unkillable so that whole save-the-cheerleader-save-the-world thing was kind of a waste of time).
As long as Desmond can do the big 'important task' and live through it, that might mean Jack and Sawyer can survive the show and live happily ever after. So, I suppose I'll be forced to root for Desmond after all. ;)
dave being libby's late husband also makes sense in the way that hurley only saw dave during two periods, in santa rosa and when the tailies came to camp. Both of those instances libby was around hurley. As far as i know hurley has never seen dave when libby is not around...
@2costa - Good point on Dave haunting Libby. It would also explain why Dave wanted Hurley to jump off the cliff when he was romancing Libby. Maybe Dave was the jealous type.
Happy Lost Day, Losties! And Happy Glee Day, Gleeks! Thanks goodness for DVRs. (I DVR both, but will watch Lost live...don't worry.)
Happy Lost Day! (have to say that while I can!)
Just looked at the fan wall art growing on the ABC page-there are some really good character drawings. I also like the Dharma bunny Easter egg- right on so many levels.
I'm out of room for Glee today. Between Lost, V and Parenthood Glee places 4th for me. Really the only parts I like are Sue anyway. And no it's not like I'm loving V. I still haven't watched last weeks, but the Hubby and I are trying to watch both it and Parenthood together, so family harmony, additionally, trumps Glee.
I'm really, really having a hard time getting back into V. On the other hand, FlashForward has been much better!
this is one of philip k. dick's theorys relating to the yin/yang and the cosmology of all being . This description really sums up jacob and mib. The thing about the dark twin being born prematurely,reminds me of mib's line to kate about his mother's craziness causing him "some growing pains". in this framework, mib's mother may be "the one".
TWO SOURCE COSMOGONY: The One was and was-not, combined, and desired to separate the was-not from the was. So it generated a diploid sac which contained, like an eggshell, a pair of twins, each an androgyny, spinning in opposite directions (the Yin and Yang of Taoism, with the One as the Tao). The plan of the One was that both twins would emerge into being (was-ness) simultaneously; however, motivated by a desire to be (which the One implanted in both twins), the counter-clockwise twin broke through the sac and separated prematurely; i.e. before full term. This was the dark or Yin twin. Therefore it was defective. At full term the wiser twin emerged. Each twin formed a unitary entelechy, a single living organism made of psyche and soma, still rotating in opposite directions to each other. The full term twin, called Form I by Parmenides, advanced correctly through its growth stages, but the prematurely born twin, called Form II, languished.
Tuesday nights has so much stuff on...luckily we have two DVRs. Not so much into V, but hoping something interesting happens. Getting more and more intrigued with Flash Forward. But I love the pure entertainment of Glee!
Interesting thoughts about Dave 2costa.
Amy Lynn
I agree. I'm still liking Flash Forward but V seems to have lost some momentum for me. Too bad they're both iffy for coming back next season.
As luck would have it, I love V but zoned out half-way through the opening montage about the window washer on FF. Apparently, my brain is just wired backwards. :)
happy lost day.
still have both V on the dvr but have really liked flash forward. the wife stopped watching it and after the surprise last week i hope it makes it another season.
2/3 of the way done. that makes me a sad.
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