Tonight on Lost: The Locke Monster sends Sawyer on a mission.
Oh, please stop with the lengthy descriptions. You give too much away!
Unless Sawyer's mission is to infiltrate a frat house, I'm guessing this photo is from a sideways story.
On another note, I received an e-mail from a commenter named Charles about a possible virus coming through TLC. He received the following message via PM:
A virus alert was noticed on your computer.
We highly recommend you to check your computer and perform online virus check at our site immediately: http://anti-malware.servebbs.
If you do not pass this test we will have to delete your account and forward a complaint to your ISP with attached log file (your IP address, etc.).
This is spam at best, a virus at worst - if you receive it, please ignore and delete it. It is not from TLC!
Thanks for the heads up, Charles!
Tuesday, March 16, 2010
Recon - Season 6, Episode 7
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 283 of 283@SG, I saw the Ben one a few days ago. I thought it was rather well done.
im saying that going to and from the island at certain bearings may allow you to go to the sideways or other realites. Remember how messed up desmond was and frank used the right bearings. A sideways reality was created when Desmond was time mind flashing. So maybe widmore did the same thing. Why would widmore feel the need to tell ben he knows who he is, if ben was an adult when he banished widmore?
what if charlie from santa rosa wss the sideways charlie and not a ghost. perhaps jacob created the sideways to replace people who died in the original. We have already seen people see themselves in the past,kate rewatching herself deliver aaron or locke rewatching himself see the swanlight.
maybe marvin candle in the orchid film was going to say that the other bunny wasnt time traveling rather it was a bunny from an alternate dimension, maybe it was the bunny from the sideways
i dont think its that confusing its like the star trek where kirk and spock swithed places with their alter egos from a sidways reality, where kirk and spock had goatees to show how they were evil. Maybe part of jacob's whole candidate process is testing these people to see how they would manage when they have to switch to the sideways. locke lost 3 years when he turned the donkey wheel, so he was 3 years younger then the timeframe would show, so how strange is it to think widmore and hawkings did the opposite and travelled back a few years and were older then they should be in the timeline. Or if you popped out in the the sideways that your sideways self would go to your old timeline? just like desmonds consciousness was switching places on the frieghter,
i also think that kate is the variable. jacob made the cave to fool smokey. maybe Smokey cant go by the beach and he cant go to the lighthouse. So jacob made the cave seem like it was secret so smokey would think he was getting over on jacob, he crossed out austen in the cave so smokey thinks she is not a candidate.
I will compute 2C-
One more f/side resolution was Miles- in one sentence- that Charlotte worked with his father. So he has a father, and isn't out spending his whole life being angry about being abandoned and trying to collect "diamonds". The island event that made it possible was him seeing that his father sent him away because he loved him.
2costa
I don't completely agree with your theory. But I have wondered if Charlie that visited Hurley at Santa Rosa was time traveling. And after this season with the parallel universe/time line it could be that Charlie came from the other universe.
But even in theoretical time travel once you leave one universe you can't go back to your original universe. But of course this is Lost and they play by their own rules. :)
Damon just tweeted "that as of this weekend...the finale will exist. Wow." The reality hits home!
SG - I'd be perfectly happy to give up several mysteries if they'd give me about 7 more years of Detective James Ford and his wise cracking partner, Miles Straume. ;)
Hi all, you have great ideas as usual...I didn't love this epi, but I agree that it may be a great set up for more answers...(I'm also a little distracted by "real" life right now too and had to watch by tiny screen on my laptop)
If we speculate that Miles has talk to the dead powers perhaps James revealing the Sawyer file to Miles has great significance. Maybe Miles is a key to it- could Miles give James a message from the grave of his parents. I love this FS pairing altogether.
Did anyone see anyone we know on the most wanted board at the precinct? any chance Kate was on it? (or anyone we know?)
I say that the sickness is a con. Somebody tells lies, manipulates, a desperate person then tells them that they are sick/crazy well, deception can be perception...not reality. Flocke uses anything to get what he wants.. Black Swan, I like your thought of if there's no more hate(no more issue, etc) in them, they no longer need the island...
Rob Perrin- great q @ Liam coming to bail Charlie out and whether or not Liam is in Australia or is Charlie's reason for being there...
I loved the use of the Little House clip... and how it explains Sawyer's love for the show that he talked about on the island. I needed that clip today, that our loved ones, once gone are never really gone.
I think smokey killed the Ajira survivors and Flocke well knew (and hid) that.
LostIt- Good idea about Widmore being anti smokey, maybe now that puts Wid and ben on the same side...
Sawyer may look like he's in it for himself, but listen ... he's taking his friends (at minimum Kate) with him as part of his deal. That's not Sawyer destined to be alone! That's the hero, "You have my word", Sawyer. I'm with those who predict Sun and Jin in the boat by Sawyer's doing, and all of our original losties... (except maybe Jack)
Memphish- it took me a while to recognize the signif of Ben and Dad mentioning Dharma and being on the island. First, for us, that means the Island and Dharma existed...we can be assured of no weird who shot JR endings. Second... we know Ben was there and its a reasonable spitball that Miles and Charlotte were as well, thus have a connection. Did all 3 leave as part of the evacuation? Yes, we have the mystery then of Miles father....
I also sadly kinda think you might be onto something about "which team" and how the flash sideways are.... but hold onto Jack's comment, that nothing is irreversible...
Great ideas everyone. This episode left me without much reaction. Just kind of a "huh." I loved the Sawyer and Miles show though, for sure. Best reaction I've seen so far was the Untangled installment for this week, the nephew and I got some good laughs at the pecs, etc. X-D
Looking forward to some Widmore action next week.
ben has to know the stakes of the island war, otherwise why not just ditch everyone and turn the donkey wheel and be safe in tunesia, probably why ben didn't join smokey because he knows what flocke winning means. I just hope flocke can't get to widmore. widmore seemed to be pretty set on ruling the island again, so being on team jacob doesn't seem to make that possible.
A few more thoughts...(its quite here!)
Did Detective Ford still kill the wrong man in Australia, and though in the FS he chose to be a cop, but ends up a criminal? Or, if not is there any chance, upon finding the real ACoop...after holding onto hate... we see another Illana and Ben moment??
Re the crazy mom theory... and things that shouldn't have happened, is this what "trapped" is? working out your issues? trying to change your past? finding out the truth? I'm wondering the same thing you are @ Aaron being a target for MIB...or is someone trying to save him?
Oh good night! I mean it is Quiet in here! Not quite!
I don't think X-Sawyer killed anyone in Australia. He just got the lead that Sawyer=Anthony Cooper.
I got a question..
Ladies...do you really buy into the " woman" that was presented in Recon? That you easily get conned into the sack,and are there to massage the male ego..,are stupid,,beguiling but easily seen thru..can't control your emotions, flites of hysteria,,,always with a male superior...one sip of wine and you're ready for the " You Know What"...and the final insult..." whats for dinner?"..So you really believe Kate...is buying Sawyers bull..like if she ever did?...Perhaps...ReCon..stands for ReConsider..
There was high satire in ReCon..the female stereotypes where being lambasted for the Illusions that they are....No wonder , Sayid, Truth, Honesty,,wasn't feeling too good.
Forest for the Trees..
MEL
it did seem sideways locke and sawyer both had weird reactions to the question of where they were. Both seemd to have a lot of hidden emotion about the trip the oz.
In the FS, if Daniel didn't go the island, is his mind mush from his experiments? Or did those experiments never get funded by Widmore in the first place?
Maybe Daniel is a concert pianist in the FS because his mother didn't pressure him into becoming a scientist?
Jay and Jack's 30 Hour Podcast for autism happening now!
Yes, it is quiet here, I guess that I'm not the only one that doesn't have much to say about this ep.
:-o
MEL- my first reaction is -well never mind that-I will just say it seems a bit different to me in respect to the women.
Sawyer's first "date" didn't fall for his suitcase full of money con. She didn't know he was a cop-but we don't know what happened before we saw them together. If fan reaction to Josh hasn't convinced you that James can realistically be charming-then I don't know what will.
Second date- Charlotte-she was conning James in order to snoop in his life it seems, and HE fell for it- as shown by the sunflower offering. So she certainly isn't a cartoonish swooning female.
Third- Sawyer conning Kate about the sub? Unh uh. He means to get his friends away from this madhouse. I think meeting Flocke made him realize that you actually can have people you care about, as vs very dangerous "who knows whats" that are trying to use you.
That's how it looks to me anyway.
I think the way LOST writes women tends to be pretty cliche and unrealistic across the board. Answers to questions like a recent one on The Official LOST Podcast about how did they feed Aaron when they took him off the Island given that he was breastfed tend to show the writers are a bunch of nerds who've been lucky enough to find women to be in their lives, but they don't know very much about thinking like one, Liz Sarnoff included. Thus we get the dithering Juliet in the S5 finale and the bed hopping in this episode. I think Javier Grillo-Marxwich provided some decent grounding for the female characters in the first 2 seasons, grounding that's pretty much been completely lacking since he left the writing staff.
nextsomeone is gonna say having kate wearing a sundress moving rocks for a runway on hydra island was sexist...
jk i totally agree memphis, ironically the lost writers have as much depth in their female characters as a Vonnegut novel. I think anyone would be hard pressed to name 5 Vonnegut heroins.
Speaking of women....Ya think the woman James was sleeping with in the sting could be ACoops wife?? but he's using a different name? Or, maybe the hubby is someone we know? (boone?) (Maybe its nothing)
JT- I'm with you, I think Charlotte didn't stumble upon that photo looking for a T-shirt innocently.
Did we ever hear Miles' last name? Charlotte worked with Miles father? Even with that info, We don't know know that they have an island connection? Do we?
2costa- great question about the meaning of Widmore to Ben, "I know who you are boy.'"
I agree with you fully Memphish, especially the Javi point. Most of what the women do and how they react on this show really makes me squirm, or squeemish, as it comes off as mostly all very unrealistic and unnatural to me.
As for Sawyer's slutfest, what keeps coming to my mind is the difference between Sawyer and a real undercover cop....the undercover cop stops before having sex with the suspected perp. :-p JMNSHO
I thought Widmore said I know what you are, not who you are.
SG- you might be right... I'll go back and check my notes. 2c, if I misquoted you, my apologies...
Re: the feminine roles portrayed... little too deep convo for me I guess. ;-)
Though I agree, I could have gone without the gratuitous skin fest... and, yes, one would hope that an undercover cop would stop shy of where Sawyer went... but.... what do I know!?
Capcom-yes I too thought that was a bit too far for a sting operation! I think the writers were trying hard to make it like Sawyer's other con, so the twist of Ford the detective would be more surprising.
OK, everyone agrees that a lot of guys making up a story can't go 2 pages without having a young, beautiful, female take off her shirt and dry it in the microwave. (That actually was in a book I read)
And I once started an LP thread about male Lost characters dying heroically,but females just- bang, you're dead.
But don't forget- there also are females like Eloise, Rose and Helen. An iron woman, an equal partner, and a nurturer who nevertheless won't be a doormat.
My point is, that maybe the writers fall short in creating well rounded females- but I don't think it is intentional or that they are a complete failure.
Maybe Kate was cooking rabbit- but Sawyer at the beginning of Recon was making tea. You know- we females really wouldn't like Sawyer if he was just a conning Jerk.
Lisa- horaay for the crocuses! Wasn't it a lovely day?
I never really saw much a problem with the female characters on LOST. Kate is not sterotypical. Her flip-flopping back and forth between Jack and Sawyer bugged me. Her inability to stay in one place really bugged me. But I wouldn't call that stereotypical. And the way she ditched her husband because she just "can't do taco night" is definitely not sterotypical.
Also, Ilana isn't exactly stereotypical either. Neither was Danielle.
I was thinking about what Locke said to Kate about giving Claire something to hate - because seh was alone on the island and needed to hate something to keep her focused since she didn't have her baby.
Well, Flocke is the reason WHY Claire was alone and didn't have her baby. He's the one who took her away from the reset of the Losties just becuase they were rescued and abandoned her baby.
The whole idea of needing hate to keep you going just rubs me the wrong way anyway, but when you cause the situation in the first place, that just compunds it.
Just a reminder to tune in to Jay & Jack Sunday 2 p.m. for The Lost Community and Lostargs Blog. links at jayandjack.com We would love to have everyone in the chat room! LIVE via Ustream
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/jay-and-jack%27s-25-hour-podcast-for-autism
Hi LT. Will check out J&J at 2 today if I am home.
2C- re what you are saying about people coming from the f/side to island time-that might be the good explanation for Hurley's ghosts. Jacob might be sending them over from a future f/side, and Jacob himself might be coming over. Perhaps you only can do so if the original person in the timeline is dead.
I think Jacob needs the island to do it though, and the island is sunk before Charlie gets straightened out in the f/side- so ??? I'm not really ever going to be OK with "ghosts" as what Hurley talks to though.
Then there's the other ghost whisperer- Miles. Seems to me his "scientific" explanation for being able to read the dead's last thoughts is that they leave impressions in the field of energy that surrounds them-and that he, being island born and exposed to it's energy, is able to tune in to those impressions. There's a book from LU in Davies course that talks the Zero Point field that some scientists think surrounds us-called "The Field"-so that may be some inspiration for the show.
"its energy" rather.
Then-
Smokey and the Dead Men Walking. We pretty much get it spelled out by Dogen-Smokey folks can be "someone you know who has died" It seems that Smokey can read last thoughts like Miles-as he did with Locke. Then it looks like he gets the info about someone from "reading" people who knew the person. He also seems to need to have the body present to take its form-maybe has to have the DNA blueprint somehow? Again- I want something besides "supernatural being" to explain how Smokey "bees" dead people.
I cannot explain Kate's horse or Dave. Anyone?
Just one more!
2C-I think Widmore was putting Ben down by calling him "boy" and was referring to his being a pool regenerated, Dharma recruit, island wanna be when he said he knows what Ben is.
Does it make me an authority that I saw that Trek episode on its original air date on a B&W TV?
Desmond's freighter consciousness switched with the one from the military desmond from he past. I think it's possible that widmore had flashes of a future consciousness of himself when he crossed the island barrier or he used faraday's work to make it possible to control the flashes. Perhaps he even has something like the lighthouse mirrors in the off island world. I wonder if the lighthouse station will come into play in the sideways.
I'm not firm on any of my theorys, just thoughts or possibilities. Pretty much all thats left this season is to sit back and watch it unfold.
I think there is some significance to the leap from 2004 to 2007. Locke lost that 3 years when he turned the donkey wheel. I had a crazy thought that when ben or locke turned the wheel it switched the lost 1.0 island of 2004 with the sideways sunken island of the sideways. So when they were watching the island move from the chopper they just couldn't see that it was now underwater. I think that its possible that the island moved many times during the flashes, thats why hawmkings had to calculate so loong to find a window to go back at the lamp post.
i think it's notable that the only time flash on the island that went to the future was when they went to 2007, when richard was conned by flocke into giving locke the compass and telling him he had to bring the o6 back and die. Then after many flashes, locke turns the wheel and goes to 2007 from 2004, convenient. Everyone else had to account for that 3 years, physically.
i still think widmore and hawkinbgs aged drastically from 1977 to desmond's first flashback in the 1990's. It has to tie into their seeming preknowledge of the timeline
smokey can read all of locke's thoughts, in one of the deleted scenes flocke tells sun all about his promise to jin not to bring her back to the island, but i guess that was in his predeath scene with ben, so who knows. Flocke also knew all about the first ben/locke visit to jacob's cabin, but i guess smokey could have been there. I get the feeling though that flocke has acess to all of locke's memories...
ben supposedly didn't remember about being healed by the spring so why would widmore be referring to that when talking to ben. I think horus working foe jacob or mib brought/injected ben into the island timeline to dethrone widmore or for other reasons or for the end game we are seeing now. The sideways shows us a reality where ben didn't ascend to leader of the others.7
i was also thinking that ben's mom as a ghost couldn't have been smokey all the time because the first time she showed up to ben she was outside his window in the barracks and we know smokey couldn't go in there.
Concerning female characters of Reccon..It was pointed out to me that Damon made comments about Star Trek that he was involved in. He says he felt the pressure to have some female endearing scenes in it to garner the female audience,,hence the child birth scene in the beginning. Yes, even our Gods succumb to the power of Money. Another thing he mentions is that he admits to having difficulty writing female characters. well, okay,,but Recon was written with Elizabeth Sarnoff. So...the charaterizations of the women,,AND the laffable James Ford/Sawyer exploits ( in both realities) comes off as Satire..I mean,,together,,James Ford/ Sawyer sure looks like a James Bond fantasy...they even put glasses on Zoe for that " Moneypenny" touch,,and Wid sure came across as a GoldFinger of sorts. LockeZilla said it..you're the best liar I know.".So..Male/ Female Stereotypes seemed the target in Recon..or... Stereotype as Illusions. As Charolette put it..you must be looney. The Insanity of taking Illusion , stereotypes,as real, for any Truth..is its self fulfilling result. Any Illusion taken as real..ends with Insanity as a result...you must be looney.
So Kates retort to Sawyers " whats for dinner?",,Rabbit"..takes us back to Bens infinite Rabbiit..any thing is possible...finally something True.And Sawyer is hungry. That leaves Us and TPTB at a very interesting intersection..what does James Ford do with Kate and vis versa?..Will Kate kick him in the groin and manage another escape? Will she go quietly to Jail? Maybe she has a get out jail free card with Anthony Cooper printed on it..Any thing is possible leaves me fascinated.
btw..yes of course there are strong female characters in LOST.Kate...Juliette, Helen, Rose, Illana to name afew..But only Kate and Char came across in Recon in contrast to the Ford/Sawyer fantasy. So..it seems to me this episode was more about the weakness of our beliefs in Stereotypes,,than anything else.
MEL
JT- Thanks for reminding us of the other lost women... and there's so much more to the deep James Ford than a con man... ;-)
And, yes... the crocuses ARE lovely outside and the day a gift (more than I can say without writing a book). Next pictures might be the hyacinth. These are all camera phone picts.... I've just ordered my first digital and would like to get good at still shots!
Lostit- the needing to hate to keep going is a Flocke idea.... juxtapose that with the scene between Ilana and Ben... hope is equally strong to motivate both true change and the will to go on.
And, YES... realize that Flocke creates the situations and then exploits them.....I think this defines the "sickness" --- like his mom was crazy... now the sickness... same thing.
Memphish, back to one of your thoughts.... what if Widmore himself had to replicate how he came to the island as closely as possible (as did our 815ers) to get back? We'd learn how he got there in the first place, by finding out how he got back? (I hope des is not locked in the sub)
Oh, I think widmore's line about , "Its sad how little you understand" should be written after my posts! Perhaps, Ginger, that's the best disclaimer of all.
A thought occurred to me. Has anyone else brought this up?
Sayid was touched by Jacob. Alpert was touched by Jacob and can't die, even if Jack tries to kills him. Maybe Sayid came back to life not from the water but because he was touched by Jacob earlier.
Sayid's "not being right" might be all in his head. I mean, if you came back to life, wouldn't you be weirded out too?
And Claire going mad with anger over having her baby taken from her is not all that extraordinary.
Maybe it's not "the sickness" in one or both cases?
alpert can die, so can sayid, he just can't kill himself. I wonder if suicide by cop would work if you were touched by jacob.
Twinkle- I think Alpert could have died when Jack lit the TNT--- IF Jack wasn't sitting there. If Jack had gone, kaboom. Jack stays, Jack can't kill himself, fuse goes out?
On the same lines you are thinking Twinkle on the touching. We know Jacob touched people, what if we postulate it could be the reverse? (ex. picking teams) ... Kate did NOT take Flocke's hand when it was offered. Perhaps there's a parralel touching thing.... unfortunately, that means we've seen Flocke touch Sawyer on the way down the ladder.... ;-( so I' don't want to buy this little theory.
I"m tellin' you I'm with ya..and have said it before. the sickness is mental illness caused by Flocke's manipulation and lies... there is no "sickness" other than that. (Till I'm proven wrong).
@2costa... Alpert THINKS he can't die. Unless he's already died, he doesn't know he can't die, does he?
I also was wondering this week if the whole "sickness" thing as Dogen put it, wasn't just a metaphorical or illustrative expression on his part, and not really specifically what he meant. It could very well be that once you get on the wrong track, MIB's influence takes you over in such close proximation to him. Maybe you can "get over it" just as one could turn over a new leaf as the saying goes, if you're strong enough or you attain some reason for hope (like maybe finding out that your mother is alive and taking care of your son?!!!) and then go back to the right path. It seems that Ben was pretty "dark" since he took over as leader, and now seems to be going the other direction. He could fool us though, but my brother thinks that Ben might be the one to take Jacob's place.
As for the women, I wouldn't say that they are stereotypical either, but just, uh, mostly shallow or one-dimensional maybe. I was very impressed by Rose's strength and faith in her first few eps, but then she just became a flaming nag and husband basher after they found Bernard. That annoyed the heck out of me and made no sense.
The infection..coming from liar Dogen..I take as just the opposite..At its basic..infection is Change..next..change to what? Well now..Sayid has been the Truth, Honesty all along..so the suggestion is ..a new Truth..a new perspective on what is True...So..this send up of Illusions going on season 6..seems the new..or..a hard examination of the ways we fool ourselves..allow our selves to believe in Stereotypes ,,the Illusions of Stereotypes...Illusions of all sorts...including a TV show. Yea..there was Self Parody in Recon. Again..the fun the writers had with the Ford/ Sawyer character was obvious in its exaggeration.
MEL
Interesting thoughts. So far the answers we've gotten to some of the mysteries have been very multi-dimensional. I'm hoping the same for the answers involving Sayid, Claire, and the sickness.
As for who should take Jacob's place, Sun and Jin's baby is also a Kwon, and he was conceived on the island by miracle.
AL- What if Alpert, like Michael, had tried to commit suicide? What if someone disclosed to him why it wasn't successful? All speculation of course, but we could find that he has specific knowledge of his "gift" and all the rules and loopholes.
Capcom- I'm with you in your thoughts about the "sickness" and reversal... thus making Kate's truth Claire's turn around. So, who might hold something that turns Sayid around?
And HA! I have to laugh at you... I'm the most "human" when I'm the most wrecked--- and shallow and one dimensional, we'll, it might be disappointing TV at times, but, HA! Its reality!
MEL, I love the notion of "hard examination of the ways we fool ourselves"--- (both in life and LOST)-- what has Sayid been fooling himself about? Being a good man? or being a killer and carrying that guilt? Its always the extremes, the blacks and whites that fool us, when really, there's an elaborate pattern of both colors that run throughout (Ok... I think I stopped talking LOST....maybe???)
OL...well you hit the nail on the head about extremes are what fool us..As far as Sayid..hes always had trouble with the pain his Honesty, truth, brings..so him not feeling too good,,he'll get over it..Its just..when dealing with Illusions..on the scale LOST is, now,,,yea..that mite bring a ill feeling that runs deep. I wish the character well,,and can't see him dieing as sooooo many have it. I mean..Truth, Honesty,can be reborn,,but, it can't die!
MEL
MEL-Nothing is irreversible (says Jack), or so I hope. Sayid does have another choice between his illusion of being a bad man, or a good man.... he's a man who, like Sawyer has said of himself, was doing what he always had to do... "survive". Both are "good" men who did "bad" things to survive... but that's a lot of black and white clashing...and a whole lot of subjective judgment on good and bad and sorting it all out....gotta hurt, and its easier sometimes to believe in the "purist" version of oneself...even if it is an illusion.
2costa said: i was also thinking that ben's mom as a ghost couldn't have been smokey all the time because the first time she showed up to ben she was outside his window in the barracks and we know smokey couldn't go in there.
I thought she could be seen from his window but that she was standing ouotside of the pylons. I'll have to reqatch that scene to be certain, though.
TOL,
what if Widmore himself had to replicate how he came to the island as closely as possible (as did our 815ers) to get back? We'd learn how he got there in the first place, by finding out how he got back?
You gave me an idea. What if the thing locked in the closet is a replica of Jughead?
I agree with you about the power of hope as a motivator for change. I can't get that scene between Ben and Ilana out of my head. It was a powerful scene and I think it's going to prove to be a pivotal one for the show - bringing Ben back from the edge of darkness with a seemingly simple (yet not simple at all) act.
I also agree with you about the "sickness" being the result of Flocke's manipulation and lies. It's almost as if he was recreating his crazy mother by manipulating Claire into acting like a crazy mother. Disturbed people (even not-so-distrubed people) tend to subconsciously recreate situations that were bad for them to reaffirm the negative viewpoints they have because of them. (I know I have done this in the past - didn't realize at the time that was what I was doing)
One more thought. This episode did seem a bit exaggerated in the FS concerning Sawyer. It played out like an episode of Expose or something - a bit melodramatic or something - can't quite put my finger on it.
That's making me wonder if the FS is Flocke's way of granting everyone the wishes he promised them. Except it isn't real - maybe a roonm 23 hypnotic state or something.(That's why the producers wanted us to view the FS as just as real and the island happenings - so that we wouldn't catch on about the truth). I think the FS is a matrix-like trance and some (like Jack) have bleed-through moments (like with his appendectomy and nick on his neck).
And Flocke is playing the role of John Locke, pushing Ben towards attempting to take over leadership of the school the same way he tried to persuade him to follow him to Hydra so he could take over leadership of the island.
Lost it You gave me an idea. What if the thing locked in the closet is a replica of Jughead?
Jughead is as good an idea as any if that's part of Widmore's equation...either way, could postulate, what's locked behind there is the equivalent of Jack's dad's shoes and a coffin. However, upon more thought, it could be the pylons we've already seen...? (or were those already up when Sawyer asked about the door?)
I hear you on the reaffirmation of negative viewpoints, (isn't hindsite supposed to be 20/20?)--- but let's apply that to Sayid. He was told he was a killer... because he first killed to protect his brother, then again to "protect" his country, from the start he's told he's a killer... and he reaffirms that negative POV by his actions which he perceives are what he "is" not what he's "done"
I agree, the FS for Sawyer was borderline campy.
But hoping its a pivot point like the What Kate Does epi.
I hope there's no trance, no who shot JR... I think that Ben's account of Dharma as a historical fact in his and dad's life rule that out (I hope). I hope that lunchroom Locke is really just playing out WHH real in both places...
I really don't see telling Claire that her mother has Aaron would matter to her. She wants her baby back and even if it's her mother who has him I don't think that's going to make her any happier.
I don't see a good end for Claire or Sayid. They are both already dead. Claire died in Dharmaville and Sayid died of his gun shot wound. Even though they appear to be alive, I think that's fleeting.
Just read the cast list for tomorrow night's eppy. YAYYYYY. (So much for not spoiling myself at all, LOL.)
Reminder: if you're setting DVR/TIVO, remember tomorrow night goes until 10:07, followed by a recap of V.
SG- Re: Claire and her mother and the difference it would make to know she's alive and well... I can compare that to Sayid... it may alleviate "guilt"-- which can drive a person just about as much as hate. I am in denial and continue to hope for them both! Either way, it'll be cathartic when WH Happens....
AL- thanks for always staying MUM about your spoiler reading! I read a spoiler thing only once... and I've been disappointed in myself ever since!
This Claire thing is still bugging me. As a mother, if I'm told my child is okay...I would have a million questions! Number one question is in this situation would be: Kate, if you took him and you're here....WHO THE HECK IS WATCHING HIM NOW?!?!
Wildly anticipating tomorrow's episode....
@maven, yeah, that bugs me, too, but obviously the sickness, or whatever the heck Claire has, has changed the way she thinks.
The Claire matter goes to the heart of what I was talking about in terms of unrealistically written female characters. Of course a mother wants to know where her child is now, but the LOST writers ignore that. Additionally a daughter would want details about how her comatose mother is now able to provide childcare, but again they're ignoring that. I guess we can assume that various discussions are taking place off camera. The LOST writers almost always eschew reality when they think it would lead to exposition which they equate as the kiss of death to drama.
@memphish... while I agree with that, Elizabeth Sarnoof is a woman, I think. So is Melinda Hsu Taylor. Why don't they have any say in Claire?
maven- your picts are pretty cute!
Thanks, TOL! :)
I guess I can somehow accept that Claire's state of mind (if it's still under her control) might effect any "normal" reactions to the Aaron news. Being claimed and/or crazy and/or "sick" could just keep her focused on revenge.
That's what I've been trying to say.
You're looking at Claire as a sane rational person, but she's not. And I don't think knowing Mum's alive and Aaron is safe with her is going to change that. That's not what she wants. All she wants is her baby back.
Also I don't believe she apologized to Kate on her own. MIB had her do that. He told her she was very inappropriate (which is a major understatement lol ) and that he'd deal with her later.
@SG, I'm up in the air about the apology. Part of me thinks it was fake, and part of me thinks that Claire is waging a war inside herself for her own soul.
LOL Memphish. I can only accept Claire's behavior regarding her child, if I believe nothing else than that she was killed in the Otherville blast and has not really "been" Claire ever since.
BTW, did anyone else catch Sawyer calling the Baracks New Otherton? that kind of broke the fourth wall (or whatever you call it) for me in that moment. When did the DI or Others call it that? That's what TPTB call it. Kind of weird to me.
Ok... here's where I finally landed on the Claire thing... two thoughts:
1. we can't compare realistic questions that we'd ask as mothers, daughters, women under "normal" circumstances..... remember, Claire got this information realizing that any minute now, or as Kate was speaking, Smokey was tearing up the place... and claire knew it was going to happen (sooo... this brings up the question...does Claire know that Flocke is the smoke monster???)
2. think of someone coming out of a cult-- of course, I only know it from movies--- quite a bit of debriefing has to go on before "normal" questions are fair game...
Kate and Claire will have a heart to heart ;-)
@Capcom, I noticed the New Otherton thing. I think it was the second time he'd said it, but I can't remember what the first could have been.
I don't mind that they put an in-joke in Sawyer's mouth for two reasons. 1) Sawyer nicknames everything, why NOT the Barracks? 2) Miles and Hurley were basically mouthpieces for all the in-jokes and audience questions for all of S5.
Good points about the apology.
Also, I don't know what the knowledge would do for, or against, or not, for Claire, but it sure bugs the heck out of me that Kate hasn't mentioned it in front of us yet. Especially after seeing the carcass-baby.:o)
True Amy, if I think of it as another Sawyerism, I can accept it. Tx! :-D
Women can write women badly. There's no monopoly.
I'm postulating that if/when we see that information it's all about absolving Claire (and Sayid) from guilt so they can forgive themselves and accept some "good" news,etc...Claire has gotten past, we hope, of letting go of hate.... forgiveness comes next...of Kate, but mostly, ultimately, of herself...(and Sayid of himself)
I'm trying to give up applying logic of any sort to LOST be it character motivations or smoke monsters. But the show works less well for me when it goes non-logical. I liked LOST best when the people and scenario (except for the pilot-killing, tree destroying thing) were closer to reality.
I prefer a fuller story-driven show myself, and I fear that if things don't come together for me personally, I'll be sorry that I spent this much time on it. Except for all the great friends and experiences that I've found online though Lost of course. :-)
Capcom- there is that gamble... I stopped buying the DVDs after season 3 partially for that reason... but promised that if it ended well, I'd buy the rest and rewatch happily from S1.1 to S6.big hurrah.
Don't loose heart yet. Many felt disheartened after What Kate Does... and then rallied in Sundown...I'm hoping for the same pattern here... groundwork for fireworks...
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