Oh, Ben... how do we love thee? You're sneaky, devious, you get some of the best one-liners and you're just downright adorable in a sweater vest.
We also love you for the description of tonight's episode:
Ben must deal with the consequences of a lie.
Ben? Lying?! Get outta town.
Oh, Lost - never change.
Tuesday, March 09, 2010
Dr. Linus - Season 6, Episode 6
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361 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 361 of 361What I like about the FS is that the writers have a wonderful sense of humor. Ben helping his dad with the oxygen tanks instead of gassing him = brilliant.
Good morning, Blogger ate this the first time so i will try again.
The beach reunion with the happy(by lost standars) music just reminded me of the opposite of last week ending. Last week wsa giving you the bad guys group and this week the good guys group and they will meet at the dharma swing set to settle this once and for all.
TAV said - thought ben would say that i guess im out of the history club..LOL
Ded said Im on a horse..flashback..another LOL moment
Jack telling richard wanna try another stick. hilarious it was the most confident Jack has been about any decision hes made on the island.
AmyLynn - great observation about the oxygen tanks
Ben and iliana was a great scene.
Lastly as Capcom stated last night it is an joy to be able to come here and talk Lost with all of you.
1. i agree roger and ben didn't seem to know the island was underwater.
2. seems very weird that rousseau is a single mom in L.a., makes me think this is still the original timeline. Did she never crash on island because the 1977 incident.
3. Seems like the flash sideways needs the original timeline because otherwise there are no timeflashing 815'ers in 1977 to shoot ben and push the evacuation and incident. Under WHH the 815'ers in 1977 have to have been there whetther their reality is still in existence or not.
4. Candidates can die, they just can't kill themselves and can't be killed directly by MIB
5. we know mike was a candidate, he couldn't kill himself but he could die on the frieghter, by keamy's hand
6. Locke couldn't have killed himself, Ben had to kill him. Someone had to know that.
7. flocke didn't need locke's body on the island anymore. He only needed locke to die in general to assume his form.
8. i bet jacob was hoping he was wrong about ben, meaning he hoped he ben had the stones to kill him. His whole plan depended on it.
9. richard was more in the dark about the candidates than dogen and maybe Ben.
10. i think ben 1.0 wasn't touched or healed by jacob, that's why he got the cancer. Sayid shooting young ben in 1977 was the first time that happened. I assume in the former iteration jacob didn't touch sayid or make illanna bring him back to the island. So if the sideways is after lost prime, then dr linus is our first taste of temple healed ben.
11. ben was a janitor when he stayed on the island a doctor off. Roger may have been a misguided thinking that would be better.
12. if the tweo realities have the same past before 1977 kate and sawyer are still touched by jacob.
13. seems like since the island is underwater, the powers of the island are making people gather in la. like the season five background had la instead of the island. Rose and rousseau got pulled to la since there's no island.
14 tom friendly was a candidate so he knew what he was talking about when telling mike that he couldn't kill himself.
15, getting candidates off the island was ben/jacob's way of ensuring no game over with mib winning. Mib cant win until all of the six last candidates are dead or eliminated. That's why flocke had richard tell locke he had to bring them back to the island. Aarron or Walt are irrelevant because they are no longer candidates.
16. kate replaced locke in the valanzetti equation, so 108 is no longer significant. 155 is the new 108, replacing locke 4 with kate 51.
17. the cave and lighthouse are not both jacob's
18. last names are used to keep mib partially in dark like kwon.
19. does "nothing is irreversible" apply to getting your name crossed off the candidate list while you are still alive?ala Ben. did the things that got them crossed off the list carry over to the sideways? Is locke still number 4 and a viable candidate in sideways or ben?
20. did widmore/jacob want to kill alex as a baby to ensure Ben wouldn't be tempted?
21. did widmore have to wait for jacob to die to come back to the island?
22. did jacob want widmore exiled so widmore could do all this off island stuff for his super secret plan.
23. i think flocke is definetly on the wrong side
24. widmore is on team jacob
25, ben has changed, flocke thought ben wanted the island.
26.Perhaps the sideways is a reality where ben is the leader of the island, but it's underwater so it's meaningless.
27. the sideways is so different because Ben doesn't have his infrastructure on and off island to make people lives change. Jack having a kid can't be the result of the lack of jacob's touch, because jacob didn't touch jack until after 1977 and jack was already a surgeon. Rather Ben sent someone that broke up jack's marriage in the original. Just like cooper was probably working for ben before
@2costa... we don't have any confirmation that the island being underwater is related to the FS in any manner, yet.
so the sideways is so different because of the lack of Ben's fingerprints on their lives not jacob's as much.
the sideways seems like it could be jacob's payoff to his followers, because jacob saw the importance of black and white being balanced. Thats why their redemptions are so bitter sweet. or it could go the other way where mib gave them what they wanted but not exactly...
Morning Locos
Just finished re watching catching and catching up on posts.
maven said…
So Ilana protects the candidates...not doing a great job, is she? So there are only six left that she knows of...doesn't realize yet that Sayid is claimed.
maven
Ben told Ilana that Sayid had killed Dogen and Lennon so I think she knows he’s been claimed. I’ve been trying to figure out who the last are it could be Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, and the Kwon’s could counted as 2 that would be 5 plus Kate would be six. But Kate isn’t one of the numbers. I don’t know if that matters yet or not. But if it does, that would leave an opening for Sayid or Frank. I’m still hoping for redemption for Sayid. I know, I know. :)
I think Jacob cared about Alex, but Ben made his choice and it cost her, her life.
Scoutpost
I’m with you the end reminded me of the Jack, Juliet, Kate and Sayid return too.
Black Swan said…
I'm not so sure love is represented by Jacob or not, but I think love (even of oneself) will be the key to the end of Lost. At least I hope so!
If that’s true then Sayid still has a chance. All he has to do is to forgive himself for the things he’s done. I’m not giving up hope on him. lol
Believe it or not even with all the bad things Widmore has done I’ve always thought he was on the side of good. Of course I could still be proven wrong.. :) We don’t know what his plan is. Maybe he’s meeting up with MIB.
I just realized the scene with Ilana and Ben when he was going to shoot her is similar to the one with him and Jacob. Only this time he believes someone cares about him. I think what Miles told him about Jacob hoping he wouldn’t stab him till the end had something to do with that.
"If the man in charge doesn’t care then maybe it’s time for a change." I found this line interesting. I’m not sure if it’s suppose to make us think that Jacob doesn’t care anymore or if that’s what MIB thinks about Jacob or if this is what happened to Widmore. Ben didn’t think he cared and pushed him out to take his place.
well it's related in the way that in the flash sideways the island is definitely underwater. I agree that the two things are not mutually exclusive. I think it's more that we don't know if jughead or jacob dying or what caused the flash sideways and we don't know what sank the island.
seems like roger thought there was a choice about leaving so probably not the emergency 1977 evacuation
i still think it's possible that flocke sinks the island in 2007 and it is retroactively sunk in the sideways and everywhere. In theory if you went to the island at the right bearing underwater or not you would pop on the island a time when it was above water.
we need to see what widmore and hawkings are up to in the sideways
@2costa, I don't think you're right about the island being underwater in the FS.
i think being claimed may not exclude sayid from being a candidate, perhaps mib's endgame is to elevate one of his dark side guys to being the new jacob.
Perhaps there is one secret candidate that illanna doesn't know the name off, why else would she be unsure if lapidus is a candidate or not? So if sayid is excluded, perhaps the ? candidate is unclear.
we all agree locke seemed to be under smokeys influence for a while on the island, he was still in play as a candidate after that. So we really dont know what's what
Amy Lynn- love you observation abut the 'gassing"!
I noticed that Ilana also has parent issues- "Jacob was the closest thing I had to a father."
AMy Lynn- but we saw the island under water in LA X in the f/sideways.
dont forget the valanzetti equation predicted the end of the world. So kate being 51 instead of 4 may be a very good thing, could signal a change in the core values of the valanzetti equation. Seems like kate is the real wild card and perhaps why they played all those games with her and sawyer and jack at the hydra. To see which side she would choose.
i think we should have hope for all the recruits because obviously it will take one of them to betray flocke to beat him. like it took ben to kill jacob. As i tell my 8 year old, ben learned the lesson, "it's never too late, to start being good".
@JT, true, but I think there's still more of that story to be told.
It seems so far in the f/side they have shown us that the island sank somehow by 2004, that the Dharma barracks were built on it and that for a time Roger and Ben were there. Also the foot was there- the statue was broken. I think we can say we know that much- but how it all happened-???
well they explained why mike couldn't kill himself, but could die on the frieghter.
i wonder how many other candidates were performing "suicide by cop" and just wanted to get off the island ride, by making someone else kill them.
upon rewatching sundown sayid had loads of time to knife flocke before he talked and he knew it was smokey because of all the trees blowing. I still think it may be because sayid hadn't picked sides yet though.
they seemd to imply dave was smokey in the enhanced version. You might say that hurley couldn't have killed himself on the cliff, but that was before jacob touched hurley. hurley and sayid seemed like last second candidates, seeing as how jacob didn't touch them until after they left the island.
lets not forget that the valanzetti equation was more of a dharma thing than a jacob thing, so the 6 remaining candidates not all being valanzetti numbers doesn't bother me.
it is interesting that richard seems to have been from the black rock and so was Magnus Hanso, so there is a solid dharma/jacob crossover right there. I dont think that jacob's touch makes you not age, i think it ensures you time jump when the donkey wheel turns
the lighthouse and the cave, and which belongs to who, mib or jacob is really important.
kate Austen 51 is not crossed off the lighthouse wheel,but austen was crossed off the cave wall. So that could mean, she is still alive as a candidate or recruit depending on who's lair is whos.
this is from lostpedia...
Most likely Kate Austen, who met Jacob as a child when she was caught trying to shoplift a lunchbox. Jacob helped her, paying for the lunchbox, and touched her on the nose. Her name was not seen on the cave, but was later seen in the Lighthouse, not crossed out. It has been confirmed by Carlton Cuse that Kate's name was on the cave wall, but regrettably did not make the final edit. He also confirmed her name was crossed out on the cave wall. Possibly Sam Austen or Aaron Littleton (who went by Aaron Austen)
For those who are still iffy about this season, I think it's going to play MUCH better marathon style on Blu-Ray/DVD. Watching the repeat of Sundown right into Dr. Linus was really great last night, and gives me the idea that watching a bunch of the episodes back to back will be better than waiting a week each time. S4 was like that, too.
so if illana doesn't know who the 6th candidate is, maybe lapidus. That imply's that the lighthouse is smokey's and the cave was jacob's. Otherwise illanna would know kate was the 6th active candidate and know all the candidates and the sixth one is either sun or jin.
it occurred to me that the end game of candidates might need to boil down to 6 instead of 1. perhaps 360 have to be widdled down to 6 and then mib and jacob battle out with the remaing 6, 3 on each side for balance loike the scale. Maybe it wil boil down to 2 candidates
if sun is the candidate then team jacob has 3 and flocke has 3, if jin is the candidate then flocke has 4 or 3 active candidates , depending if you count kate as active or not.
if nothing is irreversible then miles and ben could be candidates again. Illanna may be the 6th candidate or flocke could have killed her himself
Wow...still basking in the aftermath of that great episode and great acting, especially by Michael Emerson.
I think the island is underwater in the FS....we saw Flight 815 fly over it. I'm betting none of the Losties know anything about the island, let alone it being underwater as they live out their FS lives.
I stand corrected about Ilana knowing that Sayid might not be a candidate anymore having killed Dogen. She did mention that Lapidus could be a candidate but I don't think he is one of "the numbers".
Maybe this is obvious to everyone- but I was thinking how Ilana did not pursue vengeance with Ben- stopping that cycle- and then saw the whole scene as confession, sincere repentance and forgiveness. It was important that Ben had the upper hand with the rifle, because it meant he wasn't trying to worm his way out of anything by confessing- he could have just shot her and left. Maybe his repentance speech at Locke's grave helped too.
Oh Boy! Just watched. Emerson is awesome. Now heading back over your comments. Hi all!
Hi ChrisL
Amazing story telling wasn't it?
I just want to say, yet again, if we don't get a Sun/Jin reunion/FS really soon, I am going to scream.
Why hasn't Richard expressed surprise at seeing Sawyer, Jack, and Hurley alive? Wasn't it just a day or two ago (at the end of last season) that he stated (was it to Sun?) that he "saw them all die" (presumably when he saw the Jughead detonation)?
blueheron13
I guess after a couple hundred years on the island and seeing MIB come back not to much surprises him anymore. :)
I guess the last couple of days have been a bit traumatic for Richard.
Hopefully Jack can bring out the old Richard again. I never thought I'd say that. lol Jack has never been one of my favorite characters. But I have to say they are doing a good job of turning him into a leader this season.
Also, I read today that the pop-ups are notoriously unreliable because they are written by a marketing company, and not greenlighted by anyone who actually works on LOST.
SG, indeed, such superior drama. As always I'll need to re-watch before I can make any real sense of it!
Great thoughts here from everyone.
Computing...computing... :-)
I enjoy watching Richard much more as the creepy Others recruiter than as the man who is despondent because everything he has believed in for 100+ years has just been yanked out from under him.
In other words, the actor didn't come across as believable to me as a hopeless, suicidal man.
I'm so relieved I don't have to go through what you guys do with the pop-ups. How can they possibly be there without being checked by TPTB? Crazy.
Amy Lynn,
Totally agree on the popups. I like when they remind us about episodes or scenes we may have forgotten about, but they haven't always told the truth, and I don't believe 100% anything they say unless I've seen it in the show myself.
I especially don't like when the popups tell us how to interpret a character's unspoken thoughts.
The pop ups are done by people in TPTB office but yes they are not canon. I think Carlton said it was like having your uncle tell you about what he watched. They do make some mistakes but it's not 100% wrong. I thnk any of us fanatics can tell where the pop ups are questionable and correct.
Why did Roger and Ben leave the DI? Was it because Roger didn’t like be a janitor (if he was) or some other reason? He seemed to think if they’d stayed Ben would have had a better life.
What happens to the candidates who aren’t chosen to take Jacob’s place?
I guess the ash was just a memorial of Jacob for Ilana.
Yes- the ash is still confusing. There is a lot of Smokey repelling ash around, but it stopped working when Dogen died. It still seemed to work for Bram after Jacob had died though.
Maybe Dogen made some kind of special ash at the Temple- tied to him to work.
as we have surmised before, one has to kill his father to be the leader of the others. Perhaps in order to be a leader of the others, you have to sacrifice your chance at being a candidate and subsequently the leader of the island. Maybe killing your father would make it impossible to stay an active candidate. So If ben was a candidate, he lost his chance and got x-ed out after he killed roger. Locke pulled a fast one and had sawyer kill cooper. since cooper isnt sawyers father, both sawyer and locke were still candidates.
I only mention all this because i think it's odd that kate killed her bio dad in the original timeline and killed someone else in the sideways.
Perhaps the cave names and nuumbers refer to candidates in the real-time timeline. Like kate was x'ed off of the cave wall because she had killed her bio-dad, but the lighthouse names refer to the sideway's reality or realities, that might have been seen in the 4 mirrors? so kate is still an active candidate in the lighthouse because in a sideways reality seen in a mirror she did not kill her dad.
why does a sonic fence work on smokey?
@2costa, as I predicted a few weeks ago, I think Jack will have to kill his son.
Geronimo Jack's Beard podcast is up for "Dr. Linus" with special guest Michael Emerson. Cool listening to him discuss Ben's FS. It was recorded in Nov. 2009.
Thanks, maven, can't wait to listen.
And can't wait for next week already. After a dismally written season premiere, this season keeps getting better and better!
MIB is assembling his army on Hydra Island. I wonder if he tried to recruit any of the Ajira Flight 316 folks hanging out over there?
My internet went out during the epi! It was lonely watching it ! All the ideas are so good! The Epi was sooooo good... I'll try to just stick to a few things I haven't read...
Ben, Locke, and Artz in the lunchroom- aside from being masterful, I think it may have told us about as much about Widmore v. Ben (and Widmore's exile) as it did anything else. Widmore was having an off island affair, the principal an in school one... both used against them...etc...
In light of the Napoleon reference, did anyone else catch Jack's line in the "poppy field" to Hurley, "Well, at least he's not stallin'" (Stalin?)
I also loved, "Under that sweater vest, you're a killer!"
Faith. Wow. I have said before that I see this through a Christian POV- I found that episode (esp Alpert & Jack) to be more faith stirring than any preacher... and the grace that Ilana extended... Oh my! (I"m cautiously betting Ilana is Jack's x in the FS). I think that Richard ONLY thought Jacob's gift was a curse when he had lost his faith. It was a lapse in faith, restored by someone with total faith.
I can't agree that MIB's deals and Jacob's deals are the "same"- one seems to be motivated by the desire to go good for another (or the island) , the other, desire for your own gain... there's a difference....
Finally... I picked out my favorites of your great ideas!
Ded- I wondered a few posts ago if the Kwon wasn't Ji-Yeon, could still be...that book title of the Chosen was pretty powerful to support you in that!
Lost it- great Danielle questions...
SG- I'm holding out hope for Sayid with you!
AL- great catch on the O2 vs. the gas...
2Costa- great catch on Ben having to Kill Locke b/c Locke couldn't kill himself...
I could believe that ben and Widmore end up on the same side (now that my l theory about Widmore being MIB is debunked!)
Blueheron- excellent question about Alpert seeing Jack, Hurley and Sawyer alive....
I 100th the deja-vu vibe of when they returned with Juliette at the beach- I cried that time! Clapped this time!
AL- I hope, reallyy hope Jack does not have to kill his son.
The promo was exciting. Old times, good times... ;-)
great comments, everyone!
Wow the helpful O2 gas vs the deadly poison gas...Ben still gets to gas his dad! lol I hope TPTB know we got it...
Ok, so here's my theory about the Lighthouse. If I wanted to plot what the Lighthouse's mirror could see, I would set the mirrors to one point at a time and then write down somewhere a reference as to what I saw. The easiest label for each degree would be the last name of the person whose life it showed. I think this is why there were names written on each point of the Lighthouse's wheel...I think Jacob wrote them down there.
Of course, as for the Cave wall...I think MIB either got Jacob's notes or copied the list from the Lighthouse, and was keeping his own tally (like Battleship?)
just a crazy theory fwiw
I wonder if both MIB and Jacob need to find a replacement and that is why MIB offered Ben the job of being in charge of the island. He would be MIB's replacement so he could leave. So the names in the loghthouse are candidates for Jacob's replacement and the names in the cave are candidates for MIB's replacement. Most of them are the same because they haven't chosen a side yet.
I'm not sure how much I really believe what I just wrote. Just a passing thought.
i think your on the money lostit. i think the lost twist might be that the cave is jacob's and the lighthouse mibs though
i think i forgot to mention Reynolds was one of the cave candidates, and is the name of the principle of ben's school, we may see him again on the island
Watched the episode late last night and I loved it.
All thoughts of extra questions and mysteries left my head and I just enjoyed what was happening.
Off to read the comments to see what everyone else thought.
I haven't finished reading yet, but although I don't watch it live with you guys, it wouldn't be the same without watching it again by reading through the comments.
Loved all the comments, and yes this keeps getting better.
As mentioned it is starting to feel like LOST again with people congregating on the beach, a mysterious arrival imminent and a side story that went somewhere !
By the way if you are in the UK and have the Radio Times, there is a sort of spoiler about episode 15 near the front of the magazine. Not technically a true spoiler but it does say something about the episode's location.
Just in case you haven't seen it ABC are having a competition for a LOST promo -
http://a.abc.com/media/email/primetime/Lost/lost031010_2.html
Want a chance to be a part of LOST history? Visit the official "Ultimate LOST Fan Promo Contest" website now for rules and details on how to make your own 35-second LOST finale promo. Your entry could be chosen to air on ABC the week before the series finale, and you could win a trip to a special LOST party in Los Angeles.
Dropping in quick- someone may have beat me to this- but at the Lamppost-didn't Jack and Ben look at a picture of Doubting Thomas, who's faith was restored when he could touch and see the risen Jesus. Not that I mean to call Jack Jesus by any means- but the parralel of having his faith restored by "seeing" Jack and the TNT go out. I think we've seen who they were comparing Doubting Thomas to = RA.
Hi zort
The episode had really good story telling. It was very character driven. Not only with Ben but with Jack, Ilana and Richard.
richards line to jack,"don't listen to anything jacob tells you", reminded me of how sayid told hurley" to do the opposite of whatever ben tells him to do", last season
TheOtherLisa, Nice catch on the Jesus parallels. There are a lot of those this season (season 1 too)! Jack himself has usually been the Doubting Thomas archetype, but you're right, it was interesting to see Richard playing that role in the Black Rock scene, since Richard has always been such a believer in Jacob.
Another Christian mythology theme - after Jesus was killed his disciples thought it was all over, no one thought he would come back from the dead. We're seeing similar scrambling among Jacob's followers (Ilana, Richard, etc.) They think it's all over now, but maybe it's not quite yet.
I can't wait to see what Widmore's plans are and how this all plays out!
TheOtherLisa said...Ben, Locke, and Artz in the lunchroom- aside from being masterful, I think it may have told us about as much about Widmore v. Ben (and Widmore's exile) as it did anything else. Widmore was having an off island affair, the principal an in school one... both used against them...etc...
I think you are right. Even if it wasn't an affair per se, I think if we saw the backstory on Ben and Widmore we would see Ben blackmailing Widmore like he did the school principal, only that time Ben went through with it and took power. And just like there was a deal with Alex in the FS, that there was some kind of deal with Alex in island time. So that when Widmore's goonies (Keamy) killed Alex, they "broke the rules" like Ben said, leading him to hunt down Widmore in the real world. Now that Ben has been "redeemed" he and Widmore could definitely end up on the same team.
Lots of input to go thru...but I'm going to venture that what I saw in Dr Linus brushes against observations already made and maybe a few that are only mine.
Back to the 2 realities being presented..well guess what?..Island reality of season 6 and Sideways are the same...They are both Unreal..I mean..Smokie on Island and Ben and Dear Old emphysema Dad have been to the Island,,Been there done That.So....That hard connection suggests Both realities are Unreal..It makes sense.. The Sideways is way to warm and fuzzy,,more of a forward thinking Hopefully..which is what Dr Linus opts for,, rather than the parking spot next to the maple tree for Arzt.I mean..not one zit amongst all those students..???
..Creating a Future,,extended to beyond oneself is easy to see in this episode..an aside..during the 1st 3 seasons of LOST , over at the abc board..I use to end my posts with...You will not find LOST in the black, You will not find LOST in the white. You will find LOST in the Grey of mixing the opposites....Dr Ben Linus is attired in Greys in the last scene we see him as Dr Linus. beauty.
But.. if the presented realities are hard linked and Jack has smashed the mirrors..Again earlier discussion here was of the need for the glass that divides Man in two..to be done away with,,so he can be come Unified... Well Jack busted the mirrors,,and now the two realities are ...mixing together.. to a Third Reality,,above the conflicted opposites..Fantastic Black is white white is black episode for the Ben character to tell the parable tale..Absolute beauty. And for Illana to be the one changed by it..Illana has the Surreal ball now, and Widmore is on the way..oh boy!..
The Jack/ Alpert scene reminds me of the Locke/ Eko scene,,both going on around the axle of " purpose". Jacks advise ain't bad..go back to where we started..start all over again..and see all the Illusions, falsehoods ..exaggerations and distortions, presented as real..Well..if it was all Illusion as reality,, then what where is the stuff that kept us fans for 5 + seasons? The 3rd reality thats what. I mean ,,last weeks episode ended in that bizarre, spooky slow motion exit from the Temple and the devastation with Catch A fallin Star going on...That was Surreal...The spooky was you feeling Surreal..the 3rd reality,,Dr Ben experienced the Surreal..as perhaps did Ben but more importantly Illana..Tag..shes it. Who tagged Ben.?...Sayid...Its already too late for me..
How to?..well Jack, Kate Locke Sayid Claire, have shown in season 6 the how to..start over.And Dr Linus demonstrates that even little geek teacher has the Power to achieve it....and A BIG FREEKIN THANK YOU...to one Locke/ Lockzilla for encouraging Ben to do it..
Much like Dr Ben at end of episode..there was an inner happiness for me..that is difficult to express..and yet I try..The 3rd reality is myself.
MEL
Chelsea- I think "original" belief is a prerequisite for being the Doubting Thomas. Exactly as you said... he disiples follow this guy for years... and then, he's dead, they don't understand, HE was supposed to save them... now, they're outcasts (others) with nothing...and were where Alpert was... then boom, story changes radically forever. A season of doubt.... over forever.
Conversely, Jack's always been a doubter, but not in the same way I think Thomas was... Thomas at one point was among Jesus most loyal, ready to die for him. So, I agree with you, just think, in this case Alpert really fits the bill in a way that Jack isn't.
Scoutpost- yeah, there are enough differences in the stories (principal vs. widmore) to keep it novel, but I think we've got enough, imho, to see the Island feud and exile and a potential "same sides" through that conversation....perhaps Widmore chose Penny over power on the island (thus the exile), now that Ben has chosen the same... easily they could be allies. Unexpected, but very cool!
Chelsea... if pointing out the Alpert/Jack difference came across as anything other than supportive...sorry! I meant it like, yeah... you get where I was going with it! ;-)
the gospel of thomas gets into some serious metaphysical stuff...it's almost like a fusion of the science vs. faith debate on the show.
reprinting here from lostargs
good morning. please listen to the Jay and Jack podcast (I download from iTunes) today for Autism Speaks details, or go to their web site www.jayandjack.com for the written details.
The Lost Community and The Lostargs Blog are penciled in for Sunday 2 - 3 pm (ET)! That means us! The show is LIVE via UStream. There is a chat room. Zort70, Dennis and Scoutpost are scheduled to talk with Jay & Jack at some point during the hour.
As with all things LIVE, things are dynamic. So, if I get any updates I'll post here, or you can follow me on the Twitter at @Lottery_Ticket.
There are three items being donated for auction. The Taweret statue signed by Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse, a litho of Stout's LOST and the "Mr. Clucks' hat/puppet that Dennis and I worn at Gallery 1988 and is now signed by Jorge Garcia.
Please get the word out via your LOST friends.
Thanks for updating us, LT! I'll try to remember to tune in Sunday morning (for me)!
I could swear this show used to have a southern guy on it - bout 6'4' roughly 200 lbs - kissed the girls and made them cry. . .
Must have been some other show.
Good to see Alex though! Very sweet storyline with Ben and Alex - enjoyed that very much. :)
lol lost210
Just where is the rakish con man? :)
oops lost2010 my "0" is sticking.
At least now we know why Sawyer didn't die all those hundred million times it looked like he was facing certain death. . .
And why the plane crash didn't kill them. . .
And so on and so forth. . .
It's looking like -
Candidates can't kill themselves.
But they can be killed by other candidates. Thus Richard asking Jack to kill him.
But since Jack lit the dyamite - it wasn't going to go off and kill Jack.
But if say, Jack had lit the dynamite and walked away - it might would have killed Richard.
Or something. . .this is getting to be too much for a one-time watcher like me. :)
Please hop over to lostargs blog for update on Autism Speaks 30-Hour Podcast and Auction. Dennis, Zort70 and Scoutpost from The Lost Community and The Lostargs Blog will be chatting on Sunday at 2 p.m. ET.
@LT, I think you mean next Sunday, not this Sunday.
OK, so here's where I am, in a condensed form, as of this episode:
1. Ben's redemption. Nice story, nice parallels, setting up Ben as redeemed. With no Alex (or real relationships left to speak of) are we seeing our Jacob inheritance land here? Everyone else has lives to rebuild - Ben has always just loved the island.
2. Widmore will align with smokey, and could well replace him. I think the story we will find here is that Smokey CAN leave, if someone replaces him. Events so far make me think that'll be Widmore, giving those two the same relationship years in the future.
3. Alpert going cuckoo was fun. Roll out the slave backstory please!
4. Smokey is electrical in part. The noise shows that, Dharma studied him, and somehow the sonic fence stops him. I don't think it's going to explained much past that.
5. I've got a horrible feeling Jack's going to die - he seems to be getting more and more noble - sacrifice, anyone?
6. Adam & Eve? the Kwans.
I couldn't have made this up if I tried. Life is imitating LOST again.
At work I am contracted out from my company to another one, and after 5 years that company has said that all the contractors have to go.
However in the last few days that has changed and I have been put on a list (!) of six people (!) where I am a candidate (!) for being retained.
Who created this list, a person called Geoff, well it couldn't have been that perfect could it :-)
Ben, yes I did think after the last few episodes that Jin and Sun may be Adam and Eve in the cave.
just a quick post from my new mobile to see if it works.
Hope you are the #1 candidate Zort!
@Zort, sorry to hear about your work situation, but hope you're the *winning* candidate.
Art definitely imitating life (or vice versa), Zort! Unfortunately, you're in real life....hope you are Candidate #1! We're pulling for you!
Yes, the Autism Speaks podcast is next weekend...hope it will be posted somewhere as I'm going to a Quilt Show when our TLC/LostArgs people will be on! Great cause!
I like the idea of AdamEve = Sun/Jin! But poor JiYeon!
Stealing a theory from someone who called into Jay & Jack, I think Adam and Eve are Jack and Claire.
Vote for lost on Hulu- help it's losing to Finge! We all know how to do it- Hit Lost, Vote, F5, repeat, repeat repeat!
Lost-Hulu
JT- I repeated and repeated.... ;-)
I was browsing around looking for a new icon (where do you all get yours?)- and stumbled upon a reminder of Des's book, "Our Mutual Friend"--- has anyone made any connections with that yet? I read up a bit on the book club, but never participated....
Thanks TOL-I go vote about 20 times when I come back to the computer after being off.
My icon is a picture I took of the LU raft on this year's Christmas tree. Have not the read the Dicken's book yet. (And looking at the pile of books in the house- let's face it-Oliver Twist first!)
Had a though on the lighthouse not being seen before. Could be Jacob kept it hidden from MIB, so that he could not get info on the candidates. How?-don't know- in another time?
Well- I have thoughts, not thoughs.
zort
You got to love it when Lost crossses into your real life. Hope you're the #1 candidate also. Good Luck.
lol Think I have enough "s" in that word?
Zort;
Whether in your present job,or the next,you are our favorite candidate. We are pulling for you. And remember; It only ends once,everything else is just progress.
Adam & Eve...I am holding out for Rose & Bernard.I hope it's not Nikki and Paulo.What if Miles and friends dig them up with the diamonds,and they decide to give them a crypt for their final resting place,instead of just a hole in the ground?
Good luck zort!
Leah aka lost2010
ya maybe adam and eve are jack and claire, if jack becomes the new jacob and claire the new smokey. Jacob wasn't exactly human seeming when he burned in the fire, so maybe when you become the new jacob you leave your old body behind. that would explain the black and white stone perfectly.
i wonder if restoring richards faith in jacob is the task he wanted jack to do but couldn't tell him?
for those of you who think ben was never touched by jacob, jacob touched ben right before he died...
Random: NEXT Tuesday's episode (6.09) will air until 10:06 PM. Set your DVR's accordingly.
Random: NEXT Tuesday's episode (6.09) will air until 10:06 PM. Set your DVR's accordingly.
Wow! Really, six minutes over. Thanks Amy Lynn.
Yes, thanks- How do you find that out Amy Lynn?
Just put in my 20 Lost votes on HULU- Lost is winning today 55% to 45%! After being on the losing end yesterday. (I am wondering if that means Lost fans party Saturday nights and then are back on their computers Sunday instead of at places of worship? :)
If this is not too OT-Anyone up for some Lost Haiku before the next episode? (It's Kharma Initiative on ARGS fault who started it) If folks try not to ramble here, let me know and I will delete.
Sayid's eyes are mad.
The bonsai now lies withered.
The baseball still floats.
@JT, someone on my FB feed had a "So and So ix attending Lost 6x09" (and then the title, which I won't repeat), and he said the episode was 6 extra minutes. I believe him, since he knew the title and the centric. :)
Good morning! Hope all of us is in the correct time line this morning!
I also know the next episode title, just can't help seeing it. It's even on my DirecTV TV grid. It doesn't bother me because titles can be misleading!
maven, I know the next two... 6.08 is just a guess for centric, but 6.09 isn't misleading... because (again) Jay and Jack spoiled it for me back in January, LOL. I have to stop listening to them.
I found the ending of Sundown and the ending of Dr Linus to be similar . Both are done in slo motion. Sundown ending is to give the feeling of " spooky" in a direct way..dead bodies about,,devastation..with smug smiles and nods of acknowledgement between Sayid Claire and LockeZilla with Kate aghast. Dr Linus ends with hugs and handshakes, cuteness,,but with Ben as the outsider..not included in the kum by yaa...Still..hes part of the group. A certain estrangement there, awkwardness to be overcome...Yea yea yea the wid sub,,but that was just a lead in to a later episode,,Perhaps Wid should have taken the time to check out the beach scene in detail. But the point is...Both endings are Surreal. Both endings ..one of exit and one of entrance are of change..Both lead to New...new beginnings. Jacks idea of starting over from where it all began and Sayid's Reborn Truth point in the same direction. Unification. The Surreal.
A New Jack is implied. Also is the implication that with Jake dead..his " influence" no longer..the Illusions of his being lifted like a fog..that New Jack will be seeing thru the Illusions with this Start Over. I wonder..if with his new pov..Jack will come across Vincent in the jungle. Vince will bark at him and lead New Jack to...olde Jack , laying dead in the bamboo grove..the final Illusion lifted.
What a great metaphor that would be.
MEL
Here's one more for Dr Linus
Ben's bed is perfect,
but empty, grace has freed him.
The lying, at last, ends?
Oh, I finally remembered what I wanted to say about Dr. Linus!!
'He hoped he was wrong about you right up until the knife went through his heart.' (or something like that)
Ben was trying to justify his actions to everyone and himself - and when Miles said that - it was like it broke down the final wall. And Ben finally realized what he was and his own culpability for his actions. It was a beautiful picture of redemption I thought.
Secondly,
I thought the whole thing with Richard and Jack harkened back to the whole 'Live together, die alone' thing early on.
JT
You can TV Guide.com and check the time too. AS long as you don't care knowing what the title is and you can resist reading the synopsis. :) My cable grid also has the same info maven but it only goes up to 4-5 days ahead at a time. I didn't check for Sundown but had a feeling I should. I put a piece of paper up on the screen so I don't see the title or synopsis. :)
I just had a horrible thought. What if the series ends with Jack in the FS "remembering" island stuff and saying "We have to go BAAACKKK!"?
Thinking about Christian again...
When he appeared to Micheal on the bot just before it blew up and said "You can go now" was he MIB or was he Jacob? It wouldn't make sense for him to be MIB at that point wouldit? I mean wasn't he representing the force that wanted the O6 to survive? Wouldn't that force have been Jacob?
That brings me back (and kinda reinforces) to a comment I made earlier about Christain representing Jacob when he appeared in his funeral clothes and MIB when he appeared in different clothes to Claire and later to Locke in the cabin.
@LostIt, the further we get into this season, the less I am convinced that MIB and Jacob are two separate people
Thanks for the good wishes. Adam and eve being Jack and Claire is just wrong, we need a new name for them in that case.
@Zort.... Cain and Abeline?
@Amylynn!
That just made something click in my head. 'The MIB will appear to you as someone who has died recently.'
Like Jacob.
But Illana seemed pretty sure that MIB was stuck as Flocke now. . .
wasn't she?
Ugh, confused again.
@Amy Lynne lol
Sorry for the extra e
I've had another thought about Adam and Eve too. How about Claire and Sayid since they're both already dead and claimed.
But I keep going back to Jack and Kate finding them and the black and white stones. We never do see if Jack puts them back or keeps them.
Thanks for the schedule information SG and AL. I think I'll just set my recorder to go 10 minutes over.
I heard next weeks title on Darlton's podcast. I should wait to listen till the after the prehash episode on them- it's just too tempting to let them keep talking.
We don't think it might be MIB and his lost love. . .
MIB did say that he used to be a man. . .so maybe he was once a man. . .and that he knew what it was to be in love. . .and what it was to be betrayed.
I really want to see MIB's backstory. :)
I haven't listened to Darlton's podcast yet, but do we know for certain that all of the FSidways are at the same time? I'm just wondering if the AP test was just a hint that Ben's FS is in May and not October.
Oops-this is JT, formerly known as Sam! I'm borrowing a laptop and forgot to change Gmail.
AL-they didn't say anything about different times in the F/side-and it does look like AP tests are in May. They may not have thought of that though. Like in the podcast where they pretty much say they didn't think of how baby
Aaron would survive without his mother to feed him when he went off with Kate.
elba is able spelled backwards, too bad its not the biblical spelling of abel
although the enhanced comments are not that reliable, this season they seem to be more focused and reliable. the comment recently in an enhanced was " jacob's death is what caused mib to be stuck as locke". probably part of the rules to avoid smokey tricking someone in the form of jacob
The pop-ups as mentioned by 2 costa's citation of revealing that MIB was stuck b/c Jacob was dead, bug me a little...there was one about Sayid and Nadia that bugged me a bit, historic information about Sayid Having and giving up his chance to be with Nadia... yes, we have that from the dialog and scenes... but it still bugged me.
I don't think the big reveals should be done in a pop-up without the substance of unveiling it in a scene, with the characters... hopefully there's not to much of that. Especially if, as you all say, they're not always accurate...can you imagine, not getting the final scenes/final answers until the "enhanced version". Yuck. Clarification and links to stuff we know, but might not have put together, fine, but big unveils...I hope not.
Detroit Blue Herons........You are team number one;again.You must be flying right.
Bad News!!!
Sorry guys but there will be no podcast this week. I've been really busy (as has Steve) pumping water out of my basement this weekend. We got slammed, so we'll have to do an extra long podcast next week encompassing both episodes.
SORRY!!!
Sorry to hear about your flood problems, David and Steve. Real life is definitely priority #1!
Congrats...again...to BlueHeron!
You guys really got hit hard with those storms. Hope everything is ok. Look forward to next weeks extra long podcast.
Congrats to Blue Heron again. Great job picking your team.
Congrats Blue Heron!!
Happy Lost Day! Tee Fury has Hurley shirt for sale!
LFL standings for TLC are -
Detroit Blue Herons
ib4uc
TheLostZort
TaVillage
Bigblueman
Lost2010
They've all lostit
The Roogish Trahans
Sayid's Army
Lossa's Losties
BlackSwan
UC is lost in time, space, and sanity
Memphish
Maven
You Don't Know Jack
Sterling
Bigdog
Elizabeth's Wicked Lost
JulietsRevengeSquad
Happy Lost Day! LoCos!
I just realized today is 3/16. lol
Happy LOST day all. Loving that TeeFury 'Dude' shirt!
Happy Lost Day.
Keep your heads up Steve and David.
Congrats Blue Herron.
Happy LOST Day... my SO still hasn't seen Dr. Linus, so we'll probably be watching tonight's new episode on the Central time zone feed. =O
Can't see any comments on Blogger today! Of all days!
Happy Lost Day! Cherish each one.
Okay...once I posted my comment, things got back to normal! It better stay that way.
Yea, I moved up (slightly) on the LFL standings!
Happy Birthday to Ellen B.! She gets a Lost episode for her birthday. (My birthday is on a Tuesday, too, this year in a few weeks.)
Happy Birthday, EllenB... the next episode of LOST is my birthday-eve!
happy bday ellen b.
maven my goal at this point is to move down and finish last. i could be proud of that. LOL so come on elizabeth wicked lost and juliets revenge im pulling for you.
Thanks for all the congratulations, but I don't even remember who is on my team!
OT: Is anyone else besides me at least a little intrigued by the return of FlashForward this week?
@blueheron, I'm super excited for FlashForward to come back! Our friend, Ricky Jay, is the big bad guy!
Blu, i am a big fan of FF.
i think that throughout the flash sideways ben never lies once. Where as locke used to be more of a truthteller in the original timeline and is more of a lyer in the sideways. In the original timeline locke told randy he was going on the walkabout, but in the sideways locke made up the ruse about the conference.
blueheron13
Yep, me too. I'm looking forward to it comming back.
2C- That is interesting about Locke and the truth. He also tells Boone that he went on the walkabout.
Maybe getting it right in the f/sideways has to do with being more centered. I found Locke in our island time to be so unable to defend himself-it was embarrassing sometimes. Here- he defends himself with a story, but maybe he is secure enough to find his way to the real truth of what he can do-and not just flail about angrily.
It's interesting, because I'd read early on that by 6.07 (last week's episode, Dr. Linus), we would understand exactly what the FS were. But I still don't, completely. Then again, I read it from Jeff Jensen, I guess, who is a bit of a prick.
Wow, in the past few years that I've been following Jensen, I've never seen him act like that. I haven't been following as many Lost blogs this year including his or his vidcasts, but I've never heard anyone else describe him in that way. :-o Although if he was ever crabby, I'd probably give him some slack as possibly being uptight about his wife's health, didn't she get treated for a scary brain tumor last year, or something like that?
Mempish, do you get the same TN ABC as I do in Knoxville? My recap popoups are substituted with a dumb Lady Vols special tonight. Bah humbug.
@Capcom, I just think he's so smug... like "here's what I think of LOST, and I'm right, because I'm allowed to watch the episodes months before you." That stuff reeks of annoying.
he seems like a good guy...
Hmm. Maybe he's like that this year, I wouldn't know since I haven't had time to follow him. He used to be very upfront and self-effacing about how nutty his ideas were and invited people to shoot them down.
Capcom
Jeff Jensen seems to be the same as he's always been to me.
TPTB said we'd be able to figure out where it's going after the first 3 episodes. I'm still wonderign when I'm going to figure it out. :) lol
@Sayid's girl... I guess if that's the case, we're just going with the "what if Jacob never touched me" theory.
In today's Doc Jensen column, he said that the term "Epilogue Land" was "making the rounds" as a term used to describe the theory that the sideways timeline is showing us what will happen to the losties "after" Season 6. Has anyone else seen this term? I don't remember running across it.
@blueheron... no, never heard it, but I think that theory is sort of bunk. For 2004 to happen after S6's island timeline would be more time travel, or another re-set, which Darlton has said no to.
I saw someone on LP with a sig that said it is not an epilogue. I'm thinking of it as the next iteration still, so I guess that could be a kind of epilogue-if you think of each time through directing the course of the next.
Since we (the fans) have been speculating for weeks about the possibility of the sidways timeline being an "epilogue" or a "reincarnation timeline", I hope it turns out not to be true. I want to be genuinely surprised by the reveal of the true nature of the alternate timeline.
OK, I'm a little lost, what is LFL? Someone enlighten me please, thanks.
Ginger
LFL is Lost Fantasy League that DarkUFO started. I think this is my 3rd year playing. They make up a list of characters to chose from to create a team and points are given and taken based on what happens in the episode. The sign up ended over the summer.
I enjoy read Jeff Jensen...his theories are so wacky and out there. And his literary references leave me stumped sometimes.
I've never heard the term Epilogue to describe the FS. My feeling is they are what would have happened to our Losties if Jacob never singled them out with his magic touch.
SG - gotcha,thanks for the info.
Well I'll be depending on the popup reports from you all tonight I guess. I sure hope that the pre-empted special doesn't run over into the regular ep, it will make me dislike Knoxville even more than I already do. :-p
I've heard people say the FS are the epilogue of the series on some podcasts. But I've never heard Epilogue Land.
You're welcome Ginger.
Ok...you know I relay on you east coasters for interesting pop-ups! :)
I also rely on you, too!
Well, enjoy the show...bbl!
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