On tonight's episode, one of the survivors goes rogue and acts alone, risking the lives of everyone on the island.
So, pretty much every episode, right?
Guesses? He's our who? Who's our you? He's whose you?
Here we go again!
Wednesday, March 25, 2009
He's Our You - Season 5, Episode 10
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328 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 328 of 328Memphish said…Did Ben ever tell the truth?
I'm beginning to wonder how far Ben's lies go, and how much he is actually manipulating this whole scenario...maybe more than we ever thought.
Sayid’s girl said…The happy life that Sawyer has created is about to be blown to bits.
Lost2010 said…I could have stood a few more episodes of Sawyer and Juliet happy in Dharmaville.
I know! Isn't it sad? The O3 have only been back for a day and everything is falling apart!
Bigdog said…so at this point in the 70's both richards group and horace's group have been told about time travel from one of the 815ers.
radinsky should have put together that Sayid mentioned a plane right before that Jin came in looking for a plane.
These are good points. I wonder if Radzinsky ever put 2 and 2 together about the plane? Of course it would only add to his craziness and paranoia.
Memphish said…Who got to and who didn't get to vote about Sayid was interesting. We got Radzinsky, Amy, Horace, James, and randos, but not Chang or Juliet. Probably means nothing, but it seemed odd to me.
Kyle said…This decision was a societal one, not a research one. Chang had nothing to contribute. I wouldn't be surprised if the blue collar DI workers resented the white collar workers.
I don't know what to think about the reason behind who was voting, but I thought it was odd, too. And I felt bad for Sawyer who obviously didn't want to vote to kill Sayid, but felt he had to in order to keep his cover. Don't know if that worked though- Radzinsky and Phil are pretty suspicious of them.
Memphish said…Jopinionated raises a good point -- why isn't Ilana more concerned about Sayid's disappearance after the crash? I'm not a fan of the Ben hired her theory, but I guess it seems reasonable.
Yeah, you'd think she'd be more concerned like the Marshall was with Kate. I'm just wondering how much of the whole Sayid story and capture is part of Ben's plan.
no. i said NOT like a record. more like a gyrosphere.
we live on "Earthly" or "man's" time.
However, that's based on tangible, physical occurences. The earth's rotation and orbit around the sun. So, in the since of tracking THAT kinda' stuff.....sure.
However, I'm referring to time in the cosmic since. the since that there is no beginning and no end.
Imagine, if you would......the universe is another conundrum like this. There is no end and no beginning......so what happens? it has to intersect itself at some point.
And if there is no end or beginning in the cosmic realm (Heaven, etc)....then at what point did God become "bored" and decide to create.....US??
peace, love and purgatory
nevermind. that's off-track.
back to the theories of the show.
apologies.
p, l and p
I just finished reading Vozzek69's take on last night's episode...and whether right or wrong, I came away with the same thoughts he has about Ben and his manipulating schemes. Also liked his criticism of Kate and his disbelief that Phil and Radzinsky could overpower Sayid and latch him to a tree. (the same Sayid who could kill with his feet and still fight with a poisonous dart stuck in his neck). Anyway, if you're curious, the link to the article is here on DarkUFO's site.
Thanks for the link Scoutpost, that's a good article. I really haven't been reading the usual recaps this season for some reason, but this ep threw me way off and I may have to read them all this week. :-o
I wonder if the reason S3 breakfast on the beach Ben is surprised Kate mentions Sawyer before Jack is because Young Ben knew Sawyer with Juliet and Kate with Jack.
Even though Sayid didn't reveal Sawyer=Lefleur, Radzinsky, Horace, Phil and Oldham heard the name Sawyer. So will Jack, Kate or Hurley be overheard using the name Sawyer later thus screwing everything up?
I have to say that I think the reason that I didn't like this episode as much as others this season is blueheron's points 2 & 3 didn't have enough impact for me, those scenes between Ben & Sayid just didn't really play right to show why Sayid is like he is now.
And what of Sayid telling Hurley not to believe a word Ben has said? Sayid obviously has or he wouldn't be busting Hurley out... whether Sayid thinks they're Widmore's people or Ben's watching Hurley, Sayid listened enough to what Ben had to say to be influenced and manipulated by it
I'm tempted to watch the preview for next week just to get the bad taste of this week out of my mouth!
Doc Jensen's recap is up and he talks some about Carlos Casteneda and his belief in what he calls "allies". He brings up the thought that perhaps young Ben thinks the Hostiles are "allies". Here are some things I found about "Allies" in the Casteneda sense...interesting:
An ally is A POWER capable of transporting a man beyond the boundaries of himself; that is to say, an ally is a power which allows one to transcend the realm of ordinary reality. Consequently, TO HAVE AN ALLY IMPLIES HAVING POWER; and the fact that a man of knowledge has an ally is by itself proof that the operational goal of the teaching is being fulfilled.
The key to it all, and what most people miss when they start discussing an "ally" is (1) "a spirit entity which attaches itself to the student" and (2) the ally "challenges the apprentice." A STUDENT, not a full fledged Sorcerer or Shaman. Also, the ally "challenges the apprentice." Again, an APPRENTICE is the one challenged, NOT a full fledged Sorcerer or Shaman being challenged by the ally. Why is that?
and:
Yet another meaning of allies is found in the books of Carlos Castaneda, describing a race of non-human but human-appearing beings which inhabit the earth, and only infrequently interfere with human endeavors.
I can certainly understand why young Ben might think that Richard and co. are "Allies".
Scoutpost
Thanks for the link.
I disagree that killing doesn't bother Sayid. He wouldn't have been upset when he killed the woman last season. And he wouldn't have agonized when he shot Ben last night.
I do think he has the ability to justify in his mind his killing.
He has the ablility to compartmentalize it, something similar to a soldier. Soldiers don't enjoy killing but they do it.
The only time I seen Sayid kill in cold blood was when he was manipulated into it (twice) by Ben. When Ben lead him to believe he was protecting his freinds. He shot himself to protect Nadia.
Before Ben sucked him back in he found he could do good. It just seems he can't hold on to it.
Ben knows Sayid's biggest weakness is he will kill to protect the people he cares about. And Ben uses that weakness against him.
No matter what Ben told him. I don't think Sayid would have become his hit man if he didn't think he was helping his friends.
Ben knows he doesn't think he's worthy and he uses that.
Sayid didn't have a gun when he left with young Ben. What would he have done if he hadn't run across Jin and taken his gun. I guess some would say he would have snapped Ben's neck in the jungle. Maybe he would have but we'll never know because that's not how TPTB are going to portray him.
I'm not saying Sayid's killings are justified. Just giving my perspective. And yeah unfortunately I think he probably go the way of Eko even though I think he's remorseful.
Ok I'm off my Sayid soapbox now ;)
As far as the rest of Vozzek69 review I agree with it all except the last paragraph.
I'm not sure what Ben did has as much to do with the purge (because I believe the puge will happen) as it does with the incident. The incident happens in this timeline not the purge. I don't think Ben is innocent of the purge. He's a sociopath, he doesn't have any remorse for anything.
i dont think sayid was acting on his true purpose, he was still messed up from the hallucinogen that they gave him, as evidenced by sayid talking to ben which he just shot like he was the grown up Ben, saying"i guess you were right about me", being a killer. Sayid also did a half-assed job of killing ben, if he truly wanted him dead, he would have shot him twice and taken jin's radio, along with disabling the microbus. He knew full well that they might save Ben. It was much like how Ben only barely tried to kill locke when he shot him and left him in the pit, if he really wanted him dead he would have stayed and finished the job. Ben wanted to see if the island would save locke. Whether he is aware of it or not sayid did the same thing, he left Ben's life and fate in the hands of the island.
I wonder if Ben's tumor was a result of his gunshot wound. Perhaps the island messes with his old injury when he falls out of favor with the island, much like it does to locke with his legs when he strays off his fated path. Well if I'm right about ben's back and the bullet being in his spine, then i guess the DI is lucky to have spinal surgeon working as a workman.
I also think sayid's actions will have repercussions as far as the truce goes. Horace won't take ben getting shot lightly, although interesting that horace had ben bring sayid his first sandwich, if ben was teling the truth.
i had the wiki of seperate reality the book ben had but i cant find the link, post it later
If Young Ben has been in Dharmaville 4 years and Jin's been there 3 years, why is old Ben surprised that Jin is alive?
i also think that sayid and sawyer have been on similar paths as far as being honed into killing machines. Before the shrimp shack sawyer had never killed, after cooper and some others, sawyer doesn't hesitate when it comes to shooting the hostiles that had Amy. I wonder if "the island" is trying to end the truce. If sawyer wouldn't have thought on his feet the truce would have ended three years earlier, perhaps the truce ending is a course correction that can not be stopped.
memphis along with the altered barracks in 2007 the jin factor is probably a good sign that some things have changed. If it follows the lost time memory logic, Grown up Ben wouldn't have remmbered jin from his childhood until it happened this time around the timeline, maybe not until ajira set down on the island. I think it's intruging to think how things may have played out differently with no jin in 1977. Jin is really the only one that wants to get of 1977 out of the original lb's. I think that maybe somehow the ring may be the key to why sun is in 2007. In the flashes items travel with whoever is holding then, perhaps the reverse type ting is happening with sun and the ring. Since locke took the ring from the flashes into the present in 2007, maybe the ring keeps sun tethered int he present?
i think another reason this episode rubbed people the wrong way was it was like 2 transitional episodes in a row, and they never showed us what was going on with the 2007 islanders
another thought i had that may be out of left field. If something should happen in 1977 that derails the swan being built and the swan was keeping the island tethered in space and time, then perhaps the flight 815 at the bottom of the ocean is what happened with no swan to keep the island in that location..
another thing, if jin wasn't there in 1977 they never would have found sayid, at least not as soon as they did. Radzinsky was more concerned with his model then watching the cameras
as far as Ben remebering Jin, or anyone else for that matter....since when did self absorbed teenagers pay attention to what the grownups were doing, much less who all the new recruits were and where they came from?
But then again, I'm sure Ben knows stuff about Jack and co. since he is certain they "aren't supposed to leave the Island".
Ha! Good point about teenagers, Amused. :-D
This episode rubbed me the wrong way only because it was so violent. All smacking, punching, and killing, and very little intellectual entertainment doesn't do much for me. :-p
intersting tidbit after sayid killed the russian and was leaving, the russian translation over the door was Oldham pharmaceuticals, considering oldham's little koolaid acid test on sayid, i wonder if he left the island and started that company
are any of you familiar with Schrodinger's cat, i feel this though experiment exploring quantum physics will relate to the overall jist of the show especially between life/death, for example the ressurrection of john locke. Perhaps Ben's magic box is the box the cat is in meaning the island is the box heres the wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat
Anon - that would be "spherical", then. ;-)
Speaking of cycles, there was mention of Sayid killing the chicken for his brother, Saywer killing Cooper for Locke . . . don't forget Eko's killing for his brother. Do these fit into the LOST theme of "sacrifice"? Is it akin to sacrificing a bit of their humanity - their "goodness" - so that another may remain innocent and pure?
As for this season's purpose, well, the "catch phrase" is "destiny". And we've seen how the present and past have been linked by actions that seem, I guess, unavoidable or obvious when examined from a purely linear timeline. However, we are not seeing events in a straight line from time A to time B - we're seeing them from the perspective of characters that are bouncing around in time - so it makes us say "wow" - because their actions don't seem to be choice, but destiny.
Take Sayid trying to kill young Ben. He agonizes over whether he should or should not kill a child who will grow up to be an evil (?) menace. Yet he has to - because it has already happened. If he had been able to ask Ben about it before he went back in time, Ben would say, "of course you'll try to kill me - that's part of what made me the way I am today!"
The question is, what kind of decision agony would Sayid have had if he had in fact been given that warning? Would he have tried to put in a few extra rounds in young Ben to make sure the job was done? Or would he have thought about not shooting at all to see if Ben would turn out better? Or would he do it the same, realizing that while attempting to change the past would change his future, it could be worse - at least he can manage with the "devil" he knows?
'Course, that all seems moot, as Daniel and Hawking have already established time travel in this world to be "locked" - it is what it is.
Are future episode titles considered "spoilers"? I don't see that specifically mentioned in the rules...
It's not in the rules cdbosh, but we do have several on here who try to avoid those kinds of things. So you can post it, just mark it with a warning and give it a few spaces, that way anyone who wants to avoid it can. :)
So my theory on the overall reason for why the Losties are in the past is that they cause "The Incident" - well, to be more precise, Faraday does.
Some of the Losties will return to their normal time (Jin, Miles, Faraday, and possibly Sayid), and in doing so will cause a disaster on the island that is later referred to as "The Incident".
This is also the "last straw" that permanently ends the truce with the hostiles - they will go on an all-out war with the DI up until The Purge, when they finally end the foreign threat.
I believe The Incident is what causes the procreation problem - and it affects everyone, including the hostiles - this is why they go to all-out war.
Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, and Juliet forever stay in the 70's and 80's - minus Juliet, these are the four that Michael was instructed to bring to Ben - it is because young Ben knew them, and (from our viewing perspective) will come to know their secret about the future.
From Juliet's story, Ben will know exactly how to recruit her and when - how else could her ex-husband just just "happen" to be hit by a bus the day after she wishes it?
Sawyer and Juliet are the "Adam and Eve" corpses found in the cave.
So, the end of this season will be about getting (some of) the Losties back to their correct time.
I think next season will be about finally answering why this island is so darn important! ;-) At least, I hope they do that at some point!
Well, let's just say then that the published title for a future episode fits well into my theory. ;-)
(I won't way what the title is, and I won't say how much into the future it will air...)
nobody knows if the course corrections and if what happened happened are set in stone. If it were why would hawkings pull down the fourth wall and tell desmond he's supossed to press the button, wouldn't it just happen that way anyway. There are tons of examples of people seeming to try to make things turn out a specific way. It's the classic fate vs. freewill debate.
My point about Schrodinger's cat is where quantum theory is involved an "observer" is needed to determine if the cat is alive or dead. ANything that might change in the timeline will not be apparent until it is observed by an outside party. certain variation on the concept have the cat observing itself or the box being the observer. It ties in with everything we have seen on the show. To tie it more to the metaphysical, superstion. Say someone has to knock on wood so thier spouse walks in the door safely after work. They knock wood and then the spouse walks in. Logically you would say they were going to walk in either way and they would have had to start their journey before the wood was ever knocked, but the superstitious person would believe that the knock on would worked retroactively to the past protecting the person throughout their whole journey home. sorry if that didn't make sense
thoughts on the oldham pharmaceuticals sign in russia?
2costa
i also think that sayid and sawyer have been on similar paths as far as being honed into killing machines. Before the shrimp shack sawyer had never killed, after cooper and some others, sawyer doesn't hesitate when it comes to shooting the hostiles that had Amy.
People seem to forget that Sawyer is a killer too. He killed Cooper and Tom "for the kid" and then anyone who looked at him the wrong way.
Why do some killers get redemption and some don't?
intersting tidbit after sayid killed the russian and was leaving, the russian translation over the door was Oldham pharmaceuticals, considering oldham's little koolaid acid test on sayid, i wonder if he left the island and started that company
Thanks I seen a screen cap of the door but didn't know what the tranlation was. It's very interesting.
cdbosh
I agree. I think the incident is caused by the Losties. It's an interesting idea that this may have caused the continuation of the war up until the purge.
Also I'm one of the nuts that doesn't like knowing titles. Only because sometimes it gives away the plot. But unfortunately I know what you're talking about. I found out in a place I didn't expect to. It kind of bums me out considering.
same here on the titles i was unwittingly spoiled,but i still wonder how it will all play out.
Anon (is that you chucklez?) -
Your theory about tijme being circulari(ish) jives well with the ouribourus that Mrs Hawking was wearing around her neck. You might be onto something there.
If Young Ben has been in Dharmaville 4 years and Jin's been there 3 years, why is old Ben surprised that Jin is alive?
Good question, memphish. Is this an incongruity or a sign that the past can (and has been) changed?
cdbosh: didn't i say "gyrosphere"? pretty sure i did.....just a sec.......yup. i did. you point? ;)
lostit: yeah, it's me.
and thanks for the kudos about me possibly being onto something, rather than just plain ON something.
haha.
peace, love and purgatory
Bigmouth's concise thoughts on the episode are as usual very insightful. What he says about Ben trying to reset his life is intriguing, though I'm still confused about why the O6 needed to return to do that. Surely keeping them from returning would do that even better.
i am not smart enough to know about time travel(or puragatory or resurrection) outside of what i have learned on this blog. but if the island is the contstant and certain people are going certain places throught the islands timeline. what is the individual charachter trait that determines who goes where. for example rose and bernard dont have screen time but we would assume that they are somewhere in time on the island. affecting things in that period. cindy and the kids they were picked immediately as good or pure why them? and wouldnt they also be affecting things whenever they are.
i think what i am trying to say is that how can any of them change anything because there are other people on the island doing the same thing. if time travel is possible when is now?
I dont even know if this makes sense but for some reason today i woke up thinking about this.
I'm frankly a little disappointed that Rose and Bernard haven't even been addressed. I hope it's for a good reason. It's not like there are that many of the original losties who we need to keep track of anymore. Just a mention or visual would be enough. They've become important to the show in their own way.
I'm confident that the reason we haven't heard about Rose and Bernard is that the actors only want to be in a few episodes. I'm sure they'll show up, one way or the other, in the finale and possibly an episode before it. I also think Darlton are Nikki and Paolo shy and underestimate the fans' need to know about Rose, Bernard and Vincent.
hey memphish- did you mean for that reference to Bigmouth to be a link? It doesn't work for me. Could you repost it when you get a chance?
Bigdog- don't have an answer for you, but I had to laugh when you said you woke up thinking about that stuff. Isn't that the way it is? We wake up thinking about Lost, we go to bed thinking about Lost, it pops into my head when I'm brushing my teeth and when I'm in the shower...it never stops! LOL
Sorry Scoutpost. Here it is I hope. I should try to link without coffee. :-)
I agree Kyle, what bugs me about the lack of R&B is not really their actual disappearance, but that they aren't even mentioned by the visible LBs. In the way that the LBs mention other LBs that aren't in the scenes, if they gave a shout about R&B once in a while my stupid head could say, "Oh good, they're OK and working in the DI recycling plant, and not floating around screaming in some alternative universe of time and space like the prisoners in the Superman movie!" Or, in a cave playing backgammon soon to die of starvation together. :-B
A gyrosphere or gryoscopic situation would essentially be Kerr's Metric theory of concentric time-shells parallel to each other (that was mentioned by Chang in this past summer's ComicCon video), that in theory could be traversed via channels or wormholes (sorry Kyle, heheh). It also involves an ergosphere of a spinning black hole where particles inside the ergosphere move faster than those outside of it, similar to the paths on a record. "Rotating black holes in astrophysics are a potential source of large amounts of energy and are used to explain energetic phenomena".
Thanks for link, Memphish. I also think we are in one big time loop where what happened, happened, but just maybe little things can be adjusted/changed.
I also am hopeful that we'll get some answers as to Rose/Bernard/Vincent. There's just so much going on right now in the story...the 316er's story has even been put on hold. I have every hope that everything will come together eventually.
capcom said:
A gyrosphere or gryoscopic situation would essentially be Kerr's Metric theory of concentric time-shells parallel to each other (that was mentioned by Chang in this past summer's ComicCon video), that in theory could be traversed via channels or wormholes...
What I like about this is the note on Daniel's chalkboard last season.
"Kerr might work! Can it evade Hawking's chronology protection conjecture?"
Sounds like in the Lost universe anyway that Daniel is trying to stop his mother's course correcting and change time. Maybe. ;)
Actually, the chronology protection conjecture is a real-world hypothesis from Stephen Hawking, although the name/theme connection to Ms. Hawking is pretty obvious.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_protection_conjecture
Here's a less scientific explanation of Kerr metric. For the not so scientific mind like me. :) Nothing personal capcom. ;)
The Kerr metric permits closed, time-like loops in which a band of travelers returns to the same place after moving for a finite time by their own clock; however, they return to the same place and time, as seen by an outside observer. (The island "appearing" to disappear.)
I think it's pretty cool we could have a time fight on our hands. ehh probably not.
Kyle
I know the chronology protection conjecture is a real world thing.
I was just thinking maybe the Lost universe was playing on words/names for their purposes.
I gotcha, and I'm sure that they are. :)
Could anyone fill me in? I seen a "previously on lost" reminder showing Richard talking to Ben as a child. He was asking Ben if he was sure because he'd need a lot of patience for something. Some how, I missed that conversation. Could anyone kindly tell me what I missed?
I'm hoping it explains some of Ben's sociopathic behavior.
Right all, and think of the concentric time spheres or shells as in the Orchid logo spiral as well. Which also looks like the grooves on a record and, the time machine in that old Time Tunnel TV show that you could just sprint into, which was tres cool. :-D
Barnbrat, in The Man Behind The Curtain, Ben saw Richard in the woods and wanted to go with him, and Richard told him maybe he could but that he couldn't right away, he'd have to be patient.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ben
:-)
Some people have a lot of time on their hands.
Muppet Babies! LOL! Good one, Memphish.
Totally OT but someone told me about a "Fail blog" that catalogs funny failures similar to Cake Wrecks. Does anyone know where that is? I'm having trouble finding it.
Maybe Old Ben wanted Sayid to kill Young Ben in the hopes that he would be Locke-surrected. Was that why he ingrained in Sayid what a killer Sayid was and what a bastard he himself was?
Fail Blog. Often full of very funny things.
I'm wondering if after you're resurrected on the island, you do not age. That would explain Richard. Also Christian is exactly the same, although not that much time was passed. So if young Ben was resurrected would he "grow up"?
Not enough info. yet Maven. I wonder that about the time travelers too. But it's hard to judge aging in middle aged or older adults. We really need a kid to get moving through time or resurrected.
Thanks, Memphish! My connection has been slow and bad for searching.
in regards to needing a kid to advance the age, where are all the kids in the 70? we know their are kids there but you dont see them. except lil bug eyes
scoutpost - it will never stop, probably long after its over things about Lost will appear everywhere. i was on my way home yesterday when i say a vanity plate that was razl dzl. couldnt help but think of nikki. thats probably not very health...
have a good weekend all, back to march madness! Melissa hows your bracket doing? My alma mater Purdue lost along with one of my final four picks Memphis.
wierd that among dharma posters and the food group pyramid there was an alice in wonderland themed jeronimo jackson poster in the mess hall. Seems like there is some definite dharma/geronimo tie in beyond the obvious that we already know about..
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_n3eH1jI8AZ8/ScyeHda4_qI/AAAAAAAAPlw/q9gvQE_BFZk/s1600-h/510+geronimo+jackson.jpg
Do you think the house in Dharmaville that becomes Ben and Alex's house in Dharmaville already had the secret room? What about the Smoke Monster hatch? Remembering the Smoke Monster place makes me think the Hostiles definitely have passages that allow them to bypass the fence.
oooh good point Memphish. Is Ben's future house the one that Jim and Julie are co-habitatin' in? Or did he just continue to live in the one that he shared with Dadzilla?
and who built the secret tunnel?
hm....oh I really want to put Darlton in restraints and feed them LSD laced sugar cubes! MAYBE we'll get some answers then.
In watching the Official LOST Video podcasts they said the Dharmaville houses are modular. E.g. there's actually only one interior that they set dress and swap around differently, so that's why they all look so similar. BTW, last week's OLP Video, the one after Namaste, might contain a spoiler. I'm trying hard not to think about it. The most recent Video OLP contains the next title name, but other than that, no spoilers.
Nikki Stafford actually has a post about the confusion with the Dharma houses. There's a link in it to a fan's analysis of New Otherton's layout.
What's the confusion with the Dharma houses? :-o
if sawyer was surprised to see kate opening jacks door or if he was expecting kate to open her own door, as far as i can tell capcom
back in the early seasons the others and desmond seemed like they were trapped in the 60's/early seventies in the swan and the barracks as far as the music they had and technology. I think its interesting that even in 1977 the DI seem more of a throwback to the late 60's then circa 1977. 1977 was the height of disco and 70's excess, but the island seems to have missed those trends even though they still had regular sub missions off the island. To me it just shows that the DI was trying to hold on to the new agey hippie spirit of the 60's. I guess the one exception is chang in the pearl video, he seems like he's pretty 70's with that plush brown shirt.
also i guess radzinsky's muppet show was also trademark 70's.
did any of you read that geranimo jackson was really some band called the donkeys?
i think Illana works for widmore, thats how she knew exactly how much a shot of mchutchen cost. If the dude sayid shot was a widmore employee, widmore paying for the bounty hunter is no stretch. Ben supposedly didn't even find out about ajira 316 til that night, but widmore knew exactly where hawkings was, so he could have easily known which flight to book. I think that perhaps Ben didn't want sayid to go back with them.
Good point about Ilana 2costa.
Tx about the DI-ville answer. I thought there was something important about the houses that I didn't catch. Growing up in the 60s, they just look like the typical identical crackerboxes-on-a-slab of that era to me. :o) But of course later Ben's had the cutting edge Pottery Barn decor to set his apart from the rest.
capcom said:
Growing up in the 60s, they just look like the typical identical crackerboxes-on-a-slab of that era to me. :o) But of course later Ben's had the cutting edge Pottery Barn decor to set his apart from the rest.
That reminds me of that 60's song. Little Boxes. "Little boxes on the hillside...there's a pink one and a blue one and a green one and a yellow one and they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look just the same...."
the show weeds, i guess made that lady's song a sensation again
I said this way back when Jin, Sun, Sayid and Locke were searching for the ones captured by Ben and the Others.......but here goes again......seeing as how my "looping" time and needing certain people to be there theory is holding some water for the moment....
what bothered me on that episode is that sayid would place Sun in the boat and while the men stayed at the edge of the jungle/beach, with a FIRE between them, illuminating EVERYTHING....
If Sayid is supposed to be "so good" as a soldier and a killer/torturer.....why would he make such a "blunder"??
I theorized THEN that perhaps he was "one of the Others".
Who knows? Sorry.....just rattling the proverbial cage here.
Again.....to be sooooo good at what he does, THAT was a MAJOR mistake. If he was smart, he would've had NO FIRE at all. And placed people at separate areas, NOT 6 feet from each other.
eh.......
spherical time.......transversing universe.......purgatory/limbo.....atoning for things........smoke monster.........4-toed statue.......
Calgon, take me away!!!!
peace, love and purgatory
That's it exactly Sayidsgirl!!!!! X-D
For sure Anon, that was a huge blunder for a guy like Sayid that defies comprehension of the character and still doesn't sit right with many viewers.
i think the debate of whether the people sayid killed for ben were really important widmore operatives or just ben's playthings to manipulate sayid, is much like the debate over whether the 108 button really needed to be pushed or not and we say how that turned out.
Remember when ben wanted jack "to want" to do his spinal surgery, maybe ben reasoned if jack wants to help me as a despicable adult, he will definitely wasn't to help me when i was an innocent kid with a gunshot wound.
sometimes throughout the series we have seen Ben seemingly bring in a person's replacement before he gets rid of them, for example, he waits till jack is on the island before he puts ethan(his surgeon) in harm's way. Well maybe it's the same in the past, if ben or whoever wants to change things, perhaps if this is a time loop with slight changes, he has to bring jack to 1977 to save him from his gunshot wound, before he can say, meddle with julliette's timeline and possibly change her being in 1977. If say julliette is instrumental in saving Ben. In a simuliar way if jack would have refused to do Ben's tumor surgery then julliette could have stepped in, much like she did an appendectomy on jack, admittedly spinal surgery would be tougher.
Considering Ben is the one who stationed julitette with the 815'ers, it was probably Ben that wanted to make sure jack lived to get the 06 off the island, because that would be Ben's ticket back. Maybe ben just puts multiple people that can perform a role in case the timeline slightly changes. Kate could probably delver a baby a little better after claire. It was almost like that with Mikhail and sayid. Mikhail was disposable since sayid was there, and perhaps ceasar is the new mikhail/sayid for 2007. I don't think its a coincidence that sayid was doing an assassination in the modern wing of oldham's(he's our you) pharmaceuticals in his 06 days, the symettry the island likes
another thing i was thinking is that often we assume that the 06 and the LB's were all meant to be in 1977 together but perhaps they werent. Maybe sawyer ,julliette, miles, and jin were originally supposed to be jack, kate, hurley, and sayid, proxies that Ben brought into the time line in order to free up the 06 to leave for a bit.
Jack=sawyer your leader
kate=julliette tough lady love
hurley=miles your sixth sense expert
sayid=jin your tough guy enforcer
reminds me of when a basketball coach does a five man substitution to shake things up
My take on that was that Sayid made the fire intentionally to draw the others in and ambush them. He didn't know they had a submarine and would come by water. He was expecting them to come through the jungle. I guess it could be deemed a mistake but you can't plan for every contingency.
LOL 2costa.
You know Sayidsgirl, that's a good point and I like it. But I never liked how he left Sun on the boat by herself, just in case the worst happened and they got to the boat first. But I guess you're right, how could he know about the sub?
If the patients at Santa Rosa
were able to view the Fail Blog,that place would have become like the 2007 Dharma New Recruit Center.
Sayid's "Don't taze me Bro" moment,
hurts every time i see it.
Sayid says I am a killer to little Ben,but is talking to the Ben who groomed him.
I think little Ben will fall in love with Juliet as she Doctors him back to health.And she does look just like her.
Sayid'sgirl,Capcom;
Yeah,I don't think Sayid came across many submarines in the deserts of Iraq.
For those of you who wish to avoid ALL spoilers, I highly recommend NOT looking at the next couple of episode titles and descriptions. Especially the one that's on in two weeks.
bigdog - my bracket was doing pretty well for awhile, but I picked Memphis to win and now they're out, so I may be doomed. I went with your final four, and just swapped the winner. :) As of Friday, I as 19th in a pool of 26. Better than my husband, who was dead last, though!
Watched the episode again last night and I agree wit pretty much everyone here - not a big fan. There were a lot of inconsistencies, and nothing was explained to my satisfaction. Meh.
LOL Village.
I'd prefer not to discuss basketball. :'-(
I'm wondering if Richard (and any other Others who were in both 1977 and 2004) knew before the crash that 815 was coming. I guess Locke may have explained the crash in 1954, but as far as we know none of Sawyer's group has had any more contact with Alpert's group since that one day in 1974, and I don't think we've seen that piece of information pass to a past Richard.
I was wondering all this because I realized that on the day 815 crashed Richard was off Island. Remember he has the video of Juliet's sister and nephew. Did Ben purposely send Richard off Island knowing the crash was coming?
I also wonder if Richard took Anthony Cooper not long after that, combining his Florida trips and what have you. It also makes me wonder what Ben knew from Richard about Locke. Did Richard say, hey you can lead until I get this Locke guy here? Maybe Ben tricked Widmore by sending him after Locke?
Listening to the Transmission, a caller brings up the parallels between Sayid misleading Ben about where they are going only to shoot Ben and Ben taking Locke from Jacob's cabin to the Dharma death pit only to shoot Locke. Hadn't thought of that, but those scenes are very similar. Which makes me think that Ben lives.
But here's the thing, and I know there's probably spoilers out there, but I haven't seen them, not even the episode descriptions or previews. If Jack saves Ben (or Juliet saves him) and as a result the LBs are outed as future travelers ruining their house playing Dharma Days then Ben is an even bigger bastard than I've thought before to treat them the way he does when they crash on the Island.
I also wonder why no one in Dharmaville, especially Horace and paranoid Phil, aren't more concerned with the fact that head mechanic Juliet just performed surgery on Amy.
You're right Memphish, if Ben knows anything at all about the 815ers coming, etc, why the heck did he treat themm so badly when they got there? Maybe something happens in DI-ville that really makes him mad at them.
You mean besides one of them shooting him Capcom? ;-)
Heheh, yeah. X-D
Say, Ben could have taken Sayid out right away for his attempt to kill Bennie, and then welcomed The Special Ones into their fold to tell them all about their new purpose in life, what a wonderful place the island is, etc. Instead, Tom draws a line in the sand and they get treated like interlopers even though they were meant to be there. Hmm.
maybe rose and bernard blabbed about the future to some of richards people in 1977.
i wonder with all we have seen what richard's second attempt to recruit locke as a teenager was all about, was he just checking in or was that richards attempt to change things
I like that 2Costa.
Great email on The Transmission talks about if Ben survives being "shot through the heart" thinking that he's "special" when in fact the Island is just preserving the timeline and avoiding paradox. It goes further to say that's why Ben shoots Locke, to prove he's more special (only he's not.) It's 57 minutes into the episode.
Another great email from The Transmission -- Sayid shot Ben because his own story had demonstrated that your path can't be changed, therefore there was no use trying to change Ben, better to just eliminate him.
I think I would buy that more if Sayid had then shot himself as well. For all the BSG watchers out there, Sayid, especially towards the end of the episode was reminding me off Dee.
I know not everyone is reading Fishbiscuit these days, but her current episode recap does a good job of talking about the ethical, philosophical debates raised by the episode. It also has an amazing .gif of everyone in their Dharma wear.
The recap, from her site, is here. BTW, I disagree that the Dharma stuff is dull; I dig it.
Does anyone know the artist/name of the song that was played at the end of Episode 59? (40-45min mark)
I'm seeing on Twitter that EW.com has something on it today that people are considering a spoiler. Be careful out there.
I agree Memphish, I love the DI stuff. Haven't we been waiting since we starting pushing the button every 108 minutes, to find out where all that came from and who started it? I sure have been! :-o
Morning all! Yes, there are a TON of spoilers out there! Most sites warn you, but headlines can be scary, too!
I, too, love the DI stuff. Capcom, you're right that we have been waiting to learn more about the DI since we first saw those Dharma logos!
What if? was the song Yosh.
http://www.rachelcartwright.co.uk/what-if.html#section_music
Maven,I agree If I didn't love the Dharma stuff,I wouldn't have jumped through all those hoops just to become a Dharma Brick Layer.(I took this week off.)
Now that production is wrapping up soon, there will be even more spoilers out there.
Hey guys, Jay over at Mistaking Coicidence For Fate (http://mistakingcoincidence.blogspot.com) notes that at the end of the Chang video he says, "La Fleur what are you doing?!" as noted in the video transcripts at Lostpedia. Did we know this? I didn't know this till now. It is kinda garbled and could be something else, but it sure sounds like La Fleur. :-o
must...resist....spoilers!
argh!!!!!
I don't want Lost to end, and I'm already dreading the awfully long hiatus coming up. pooh.
savor the moment...it's all we have!
Interesting Capcom. It is garbled, but it could say LaFluer. It's been a while since I watched it. Chang says he hopes someone will be able to save them; change the past. Maybe they have.
capcom
That's funny. I just listened to that the other day and I didn't notice that.
I guess I'll have to listen again.
I believe I do hear "LaFleur, what are you doing?" It's funny how the humane ear works...until we got the name LaFleur, I don't think anyone would have said that was what Chang said.
Ok I listened a couple of more times and I can hear where people think they are hearing LaFleur.
But I personally don't think that's what he's saying.
I'm not sure what it is he is saying though.
Right Maven, I wonder when that went into the transcripting info at Lostpedia? That is, did they write it before we knew about Jim LaFleur? Maybe I'll try to see if I can find out easily in the footnotes or something.
I guess the important thing to think about if Chang is saying "LaFleur" is the fact that LaFleur/Sawyer is there when the video is being shot (along with Faraday). Does LaFleur spill the beans about why they are really there, and along with Faraday try to get the word out? Or is he trying to stop them?
ABC has Geronimo Jackson tees. Two styles concert and the stars and stripes name. They also have security, motorpool and cafeteria dharma logo tees in the Lost shop for 24.95. ;)
I wish they'd do a Dharma chef apron. I'd buy that. I already have too many LOST tees.
Hi all, I've just got back and watched the episode.
If it hadn't been for the end scene I would have thought it was a very poor episode indeed.
Even that end scene although dramatic and unexpected is kind of a let down because either Ben is not dead because he knew Sayid was going to shoot him, or he is dead and the island will find a way of bringing him back.
I'm kind of hoping that he will be bought back to life but we see the consequence of what would have happened if he was really dead in the 2007 timeline.
The other thought I had on him surviving is that he gets taken by the Others to the temple and he gets resurrected there. That might be where all the people that are supposedly dead are taken to be restored to what appears to be life. Thats why it takes 3 days, one day to get there, one day to get fixed, and one day to get them back to where they are supposed to be.
My least favourite theory is that Jack or Juliet save him with surgery.
I just had a listen to the Comicon video and I can't hear LeFleur, I think it is too indistinct personally.
Me too Zort, like what Maven mentioned, if I didn't know to listen for it, I probably wouldn't hear it either. :-)
Ack Attack is up.
"Sayid: How did you find me?
Ben: I followed the trail of dead girlfriends."
That strikes me funnier than it probably should. . .
:)
Oh yeah. . .this one too:
"This is just like that except way worse because HELLO? TIME TRAVEL AND CHILD ABANDONMENT INVOLVED, PEOPLE! Sawyer does NOT need those two swapping stories, amiright?"
It's been much too long sense we've had humor at Sawyer's expense.
Morning all...Happy LOST EVE Day!
My friend, Ken Levine, wrote a Lost Recap on his blog. As usual, it's very funny. Check it out!
LOL guys. :-)
Has everyone seen Walt in the new Anytizers commercial? He's so big he looks and sounds like he's 25 years old compared to the other boys!
That ad ran during the premiere. I was surprised no one mentioned it!
Meh, mostly during Lost my local ABC affiliate plays local ads, so I miss a lot of the "real" ABC ads.
It's funny; that was actually the one and only time I saw it. Haven't caught it since.
I see it all the time.
I seen it awhile before the premiere of Lost and mentioned it.
Everytime I see it I think taller ghost Walt. ;)
The LFL weekly results are in.
My team is doing the LFL Limbo Rock; (How low can you go?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKu0ZFZ7rp0
Pre-Lost Day spoiler-free post. I haven't even watched the preview. I am going to be incredibly disappointed if what we see tomorrow is Jin rushing the shot, but not dead Ben back to Dharmaville where Juliet and Jack save his life. If LOST fails to bring some sort of twist into this shooting of Young Ben I'm calling Ultimate Lack of Shenanigans and declaring this part of Season 5 to be worse than the cage match episodes.
I think I came up a little. Even with Sayid shooting Ben.
They must have adjusted the scores last week they're not the same as what I copird down.
ah I one hand typing again.
The full list of Lost Community teams from the Lost Fantasy League
Tsol
Detroit Blue Herons
DeD-LoSTieS
Lossa's Losties
Elizabeth's Wicked LOST
Weagle Weagle War Eagle Fantasy Team
Team LuckyGuyLikeMe
maven
Eight is Enough
S.W.A.T.
You Don't Know Jack
They've all lostit
UC is lost in time, space, and sanity
Bigdog
Sayid's Army
x-1
Sterling
Memphish
codysmom
Deceased-clown
8OrangeSmiles
TheLostZort
greek-lost-team
Goatzilla
valerianmud
FYSB's Fantasy Picks
Sailormoon73's LFL
theVillage8
Team NO WORMHOLES
HAPPY LOST DAY!
NEW POST!
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