Tonight's episode, in 25 words or less:
Desmond goes in search of a woman who could be the key to helping Faraday stop the island's erratic movements through time.
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Wednesday, January 28, 2009
Jughead - Season 5, Episode 3
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 371 of 371young widmore makes ben look tame, breaks his fellow other's neck for trying to lead locke to the camp, then stupidly leads him there anyway and let's not forget how cutting off one of julliette's hand was a given for young chuck...
black swan i tend to agree with you with the widmore DI thing
Some thoughts on the rewatch:
In the previously on LOST part: Dan was gone 2 hours when he was left banging on the hatch door. Was he time-skipping to somewhere else then?
--Why did Des tell young Charlie that Scotland had monster?
--Why do the Others learn Latin? Is it to show how old their civilization is? My hubby and I tried to learn Latin so that no one would understand what we were talking about...our own secret language (of course, we didn't get too far with that!) Could that be why the Others chose a dead language?
--Who else would be poking around in Daniel's old lab? Widmore to see where his money went?
--Richard says that they were "forced" to kill the Army men. There is a chain of command he must follow. Who forced them? Jacob?
--Dan says that Ellie looks ike someone he used to know. Would he say that he used to know his mother? I like the Ellie=Eliose Hawking theory, but this seemed strange the way Dan says that.
--Why does Widmore have Hawking's LA address in his book? And how does he know Des has a message to deliver?
--How did Dan know that he's from 50 years from now? No one had told him as far I know (the dead Army guys didn't tell Miles).
--Alpert does not sense that a flash is about to happen as Locke does.
Hi, 2costa (you probably remember me as codysmom)
You are so right about young Widmore! He's a real prize.. with a chip on his shoulder and his own ideas. He had no problem lying to Richard, either. I think he funded Daniel's research for his own shady benefit and it's obvious that Dan feels bad now about the result of that research and his naive involvement. At least Widmore is paying for the upkeep of poor Theresa, so he either does have a heart deep down or a connection to her that we don't know about yet.
Maven, I always enjoy your notes! I've been wondering about the Latin thing too. I suppose it could be that they just want a language no one else uses, but something tells me it's more than that. Latin is the language of scientists and religion.
maven said,
--Why did Des tell young Charlie that Scotland had monster?
I thought he was referring to the Loch Ness monster.
--How did Dan know that he's from 50 years from now? No one had told him as far I know (the dead Army guys didn't tell Miles).
He figured that it was the 50's because that what was the American military was testing atomic bombs in the south pacific. He mentions that to Miles and Charlotte when they were in the tent.
The Latin thing is funny. I have a lot of friends here in Memphis whose kids go to a Classical Christian School (yes, that's a type) and they require the kids to take years of Latin. In fact the local paper did a story about it recently. Most of our private high schools require a year or two as well for SAT reasons.
I figure the Others just use it cause it's easier than another secret language.
As LostIt said, Desmond was referring to Nessie. After all, if you're telling a kid about Scotland that's a much better selling point than haggis.
The lab thing is puzzling. Are Oxford students too dumb to notice they've been fumigating the same room for 10 years? I figure the others who've come poking around aren't important. Widmore's known for at least the 10 years he's paid for Teresa's care. The others are probably just other rando types working on time travel. Every university has one right? :-)
I think Widmore knows Des has a message because he understands that Daniel is time skipping on the Island. After all Widmore himself first met Daniel that way. I think Widmore understands time as much as Mrs. Hawking.
As for sensing the flashes, I've noticed that for the most part people in the past don't notice them, Ethan, Richard, e.g. But the person who did notice was the hazmat suited Desmond. He reacts to the change coming. I don't know what that means though.
I think I also worked out some of my issues with time travel. Sayid's Girl, check this and see if it's right. You have an inate sense of time it seems. :-)
It seems to me that as the Losties travel through time it's not so much the past of those they encounter they have to worry about, rather they have to worry about changing their own past. So Sawyer can't meet Desmond in the Hatch because in the past Sawyer didn't meet Desmond until at best the end of S2, but really not til mid-S3. For Sawyer to meet Desmond before that might give him nosebleed. (More on that in a minute.)
But it's okay for Locke to meet Charles Widmore in 1954 before Locke was even born because it really happened. In 1954 2005 Locke appeared to Widmore and in 2005 (and 3 years later) Widmore knows that. Widmore's past isn't changed because it always happened that way. And Locke's past isn't changed because he's creating it as he does it.
It still leaves me confused about the Daniel/Desmond interaction, but my 3 theories on that is that both Daniel and Desmond are 1)"special" because of their high exposures to magnetism and radiation so the rules don't apply to their interactions or 2) because Desmond is Daniel's constant, to the extent that meeting Desmond before he should should create a nosebleed situation, it doesn't because of that constant relationship or 3) since Desmond and Daniel have both met in 1996 before this encounter, it's ok to meet in this 2001-2004 time period.
And now back to the nosebleeds. The reason Charlotte and only Charlotte is having them is because she has encountered someone she shouldn't have during these time jumps and because her past has now changed she's got time travel sickness. We just don't know who that person is yet.
What do we really know about the Swan implosion? Any chance that the safe guard was designed to deal with whatever the button push was "venting" (like, say, an unstable H-bomb) by sending it away through some kind of time shift technology? Maybe into the future? That could be why Des got zapped into the past and why there's no longer a need to push a button.
Of course, if that's true, it means the bomb will probably reappear at some point in the future. Could that be the catastrophe the O6 have to return to stop?
As for the Latin, I think there's some underlying religious stuff going on. We've seen monks and talk of destiny. I doubt they're going into DaVinci Code territory, but we might be looking at conflict between some ancient cult/sect and those who would try to harness a higher power for technological or military gain. You know: Man of Science, Man of Faith.
So did 2001 Desmond who meets Jack at the stadium know that Jack had healed Sarah because they met in 2004 and Jack told him? And in 2001 Desmond had a conscious memory of it? I'd guess yes.
Memphish-
I agree that either their electromagnetism exposure or the fact that they are each other's constants will probably eventually factor into the explanation of why Des and Dan can break "the rules" (which we understand only poorly at best for now).
Erich-
I agree that the bomb will reappear at some point. They wouldn't have introduced it just to have it appear in only one episode, I think.
Also, I'm guessing that there is an epic good-vs-evil conflict going on which hasn't yet been fully revealed. I think the show will ultimately be about something bigger than Ben and Widmore playing "a game" or the Ben/Locke rivalry for leadership of the island.
Memphish,
I don't think the Desmond we saw at the stadium had started experiencing any time wierdness yet. I'm curious, why do you think he knew more than he let on in that episode?
I've got a new post on my blog about Desmond, Locke, and the Swan. Spoiler-free, if anyone's interested.
Desmond does a Motel 6
Blueheron -- Desmond is so confident in that scene with Jack that Sarah is healed. That's why I think he might know what's going on. It also makes his interaction with Penny a bit more understandable if he knows they will eventually re-connect. His logic there had always seemed weak to me, but if in 2001 Desmond is convinced that things will work out because like Billy Pilgrim in Slaughterhouse Five he knows all times at once then his logic is more, well, logical. He doesn't explain the time thing because that's just crazy talk, but instead comes up with this manly man thing for Penny and the but what if you did fix her for Jack.
I assumed that Des was talkig about Nessie too. And, that TPTB were trying to trick us into thinking that they were near The Island. Silly PTBs. :o)
I'm thinking like you Dark, about the bomb, the Swan, and the implosion (your post one post-page back). I mentioned on my blog post for this ep, how I could see that working if certain conditions were met. But otherwise, if that's what it is, I'm going to just have to go with TPTB making the situation up irrespective of what would really happen. Wouldn't be the first time I had to do that, heheh.
Hmmm, I have no idea what Desmond can remember at any given point in his timeline. In fact, given what's happened to him, I'm not sure his timeline is a straight line. He have seems to have changed the past at least once (in "Flashes"), maybe twice (in "The Constant").
A different question: When Desmond confronts Widmore in "Jughead", Widmore suspects (correctly) that Penny and Desmond are together and in hiding. But, does Widmore know, either before or after the conversation, that Desmond had actually been on the island?
Here's what I wonder -
In 1996, Des gets Penny's phone number and says he won't call her until Christmas 2004. She's pissed, she doesn't want to hear from him anyway.
In 2001, Penny shows up at the stadium and tries to talk Des out of the race. She's engaged to someone new, but she still loves Des.
In 2004, Des calls Penny. She's been looking for him for three years, knows about the island, has a listening station in the Arctic. She loves and will do anything to find him.
How do these events all mesh?
Also, Des tells Jack at the stadium that he was "almost" a doctor. At first I thought this was maybe a flub that we'd never hear about again, but in season 4, when he borrows Jack's first aid kit when they go to find Naomi, Des lies and says he needs it because he twisted his ankle. Jack asks if he wants help, and Des says that he's taped his share of ankles. Jack chuckles and says something like, "oh, that's right."
So when did Des have time to "almost" become a doctor. He doesn't mention it when Widmore is looking over his resume (when Des goes to ask for permission to marry Penny) and Penny says he joined the army right after he left her. So, it must be between 1996 and 2001, which doesn't seem like much time considering he hadn't even been to university yet in 1996.
Des, what is your deal?!
Melissa, maybe after 1996 Penny tries to forget about Des and allows herself to get involved with someone else. His words about the call are filed in the back of her head, but still nag her. Then after seeing Des in 2001, she realizes that she'd be an idiot to marry someone when she doesn't love him as much as she still loves Des and starts looking for Des, since she can afford it. ????
Didn't Desmond's unfinished medical education come up when he was talking to Widmore in his office the first time? I vaguely remember thinking that was part of the info Wid used to call Des a loser, because he never finished anything. Or maybe I just made that up in my head a the time. :-o
ML,
All very good questions. And I don't have any idea how to answer any of them!
Blue, maybe if Widmore knows Hawking, Dan, et.al. he knows about Des? And didn't Minkowski or someone tell Des that they weren't allowed to take any calls from Penny on the frieghter? That might have been because Wid knew Des was on the island.
I was just wondering if Widmore knows that Desmond is somehow connected with the island's time issues...for example, knowing that Desmond has a message for Daniel's mother...then why doe he let him go so easily? Is he protecting Penny...thinking she's safe with him? Also, in the scene with Sun outside the cafe in London: Sun tells Widmore than they know there are other people that left the island...implying that it is Desmond. So wouldn't Widmore be searching for Desmond? And then he waltzes into his office and waltzes out.
maven: I always figured Sun meant Ben, not Desmond.
Point taken, Kyle. But he also knew that Penny was searching for the island and Desmond when she got the coordinates. It could be assumed that other people getting off the island could include Desmond. It just seemed odd that Widmore just let Desmond walk out of his office. Of course, he knows where he's going now.
I also at first thought that Sun meant Des and Penny (so, hint-hint if you want to find your daughter), but then I thought that she meant Ben due to something that TPTB said in the pre-show last week.
i think the tweaks with desmond and farday through the timeline are the only things that haven't played out in a time loop, meaning they are new, and i agree its becaus eof all the radiation exposure, dan in his lab and des in the swan. I agree thgat unstuck nosebleed can result from time anomlies in yuor own lifetime, i think desmond may be so special because he has such a strong constant in penny and daniel, if you think about it charlotte has no constant at all except dan and i assume they just met recently. A good constant needs to span a large part of your life.
i thought widmore was the monster, wasn't he originally from scotland, many brits like the royal family are scots.
i think in light of desmond naming his son charlie, it's even more curious that in the flashback to the pool in charlies childhood in "greatest hits" someone is heard calling desmond's name
It's interesting that Desmond and Penny have spent about three years hiding from Charles Widmore, when he fact he seems to be on their "side" or at least has the goal of protecting them, not hurting them.
Yes, 2costa, I remember when that came up in that swimming scene. You know, when I first heard Desmond call is son Charlie, I thought "how can he name him after his evil father-in-law"? Then, of course, it hit me that he's named for Charlie Pace.
Heheh, that is funny Blueheron. Time has changed events and people. Dez and Pen probably think that he's going to try to break them up, and now all that doesn't matter to Wid, he just wants Penny to be safe. Perspective does wonders for the soul, Mr. Widmore. :-)
Me too Maven, only in the opposite way for me, "How cute.....YUK!"
I found this link at ITE. I was posted by technoprep on Tues.
It's a video blog by a sports caster for the NY Knicks and Rangers Al Trautwig.
I found it very interesting. He does get a few details wrong. But his opinion John Locke not really being the chosen one I agree with. Maybe not the way he describes it. But I agree he's wasn't suppose to be the chosen one. He also mentions how many episodes he thinks it's going to be in the arc that gets the O6 back to the island. He says that immediately after his explanation of Locke. That's not a spoiler to me but it maybe to some. It's at the 6:02 point and ends at 6:12
blog
Hey I finally got to watch Jughead last night- Dennis, I hope you get to watch it soon, wherever you are!
I'm almost caught up on comments but have to leave the house soon, so I wanted to throw this out there and I see blueheron has touched on it. My thought was if Widmore was on the island and obviously knows some about time travel a la Dan's work, then I wonder if his dislike of Desmond was all fake? Maybe he was just playing puppeteer to get Des to the island, or whatever in the grand scheme of things because ultimately he knew what role Desmond needed to play. And/or maybe he was doing it all to protect Penny in the long run.
Sayid's girl- yeah, I'm starting to wonder if John, by talking to Richard in 1954, set up his own destiny that he is the chosen one, but really he is not. Ok I don't know if that makes any sense. But maybe the only reason anyone called him the chosen one was because of that encounter in 1954? (I'm not sure that makes it any clearer ;P)
Random observation: What is the deal with women with long blond curly hair? Ben's mom, Juliet, Teresa, Ellie, etc. Not that I have anything against women with long blond curly hair, but is this a theme?
scoutpost
I understand what you're saying. I've been wondering this for awhile before the season started. After this weeks episode I'm wondering even more.
I know what you mean. Can't we have a few more brunettes and redheads. :)
Another random observation: Why was Desmond wearing a baseball cap when he went to Teresa's house? He wasn't wearing it when he was at Oxford, nor at Mr. Widmore's, nor when he returned to the boat. Was it a lapse in fashion judgement (because the rest of the epi he was spot on! oohlala)? Was it supposed to be a disguise? Was it just an editing inconsistency? It probably means nothing, but I thought it was very curious.
Hmmm I never paid any attention to that. But it is a good question.
And yes he was oohlala wasn't he?
Do you think Charlie Hume knows the words to You All Everybody?
That would be the lullaby from hell, wouldn't it? :)
Scoutpost,
I was thinking the same thing about Locke possibly not being that special since his meeting with Alpert orchestrated his own destiny to some degree. But there is all the counter-evidence, such as his paralysis being healed, the fact that he seems to be "in tune" with the island to some degree (or at least knows when it's going to stop and start raining), and the fact that he heard Jacob and saw Christian/Claire in the cabin.
As for the blondes: If Ellie does indeed turn out to be Ms. Hawking as most are assuming, maybe that's how the actress looked when she was younger? And Teresa was intentionally made to look like Ellie to throw us off--to make us think that Daniel is referring to Teresa in that one scene, when in fact Ellie reminds him of his mother.
Of course, this doesn't explain the other blonde, curly-haired women you mentioned.
I think the Island which many are speculation is sentient prefers women with long curly blond hair. That's the real reason Juliet is time jumping but Cindy with her short brown hair isn't. I've got the blond and curly, but not long. Do you think there are hair extentions on the the Island?
I also have a new Richard Alpert theory. He's a Fable. I'm on Book 3 of the series and the fables never age and exist across centuries. E.g. Jack of Jack and the Beanstalk is in the US during the Civil War at the start of Book 3.
Ha, ha - memphish, I love that you're reading Fables! It's one of the first comics I picked up when I started dating my comic-loving now-husband. :) It gets better and better, too.
You should also pick up Y: The Last Man. I think you'd really like it (and the writer, Brian K. Vaughan, is now a writer on Lost!).
And for the record, my co-worker and I are HIGHLY doubtful that Juliet could have become fluent in Latin in the three years she was on the island, especially fitting it in around her medical research, book club and torrid affair with Goodwin.
blue heron- good points about Locke. Although Walt also had certain "special" qualities- so much so that the Others kidnapped him, and Aaron and Des are also labeled as "special" (even though Des' label seems to refer to his time travel capabilities). Anyway, I wonder if "special" capabilities should be considered separate from "chosen one" capabilities. But I don't know.
lol@Memphish..."you all evaboddy"...aw little Charlie!
Melissa...if the language was used in their everyday lives, oh yes you could become quite fluent in a new language in three years! Immersive training really works.
Scoutpost, I thought the Others kidnapped Walt because they always took all the children, and he was the only kid with the Fusies, not because Walt was 'special'. They discovered his 'specialness' once he got back to camp with them. I could be wrong, though.
Finally, about Locke: I think he's special anyway...he saw Jacob, didn't he? And Christian Shepard told him he was there to save the Island, right? I'm sticking with the theory that he IS the chosen one, although who is doing the choosing remains to be seen...
carpe diem!
The enhanced episode of "The Lie" stated matter-of-factly that Sun wanted Ben dead because she blamed him for Jin's death. My question is: Do you we know this to be absolutely true? Is this canon? Because it sure seems to me, based on her conversation with Kate, that Sun has some kind of hidden agenda and may still blame some of the O6 for what happened to Jin. We know that Sun is an accomplished liar.
Melissa_Lossa -- The Others use Rosetta Stone.
Y:The Last Man is on my list eventually. I wish my library had a better set of graphic novels. Do you know if they are ever going to publish them all in one volume? Also, have you read Brian K Vaughn's Ex Machina? I saw it in the back of my Fables and it sounded interesting too.
I have been wondering about the bomb, whether or not it is buried underneath the Swan, and what, if anything, it has to do with the incident and infertility on the island. So after reviewing the pre-crash timeline this morning on Lostpedia, this is what I'm coming up with:
1954- the Others are told to bury the bomb in concrete
1970- the DI is created
1970's (specific year unknown but probably the late 70's)- the Swan is built. (But why in the world would they build over a buried H-bomb unless they didn't know about it?)
1973 or later- Pierre Chang records the Arrow video/Orchid station is being built. (Willie Nelson's Shotgun Willie was recorded and released in 1973, so that puts the Orchid/FDW discovery after that. Pierre has a baby (Miles?) so perhaps there was no fertility problem at that time.)
1979- According to Lostpedia Charlotte was born. (Again, if she is the product of DI scientists and was conceived and/or born on island, then there was no trouble as of 1979.)
1980- Chang records the Swan Orientation film, mentions the "incident" and is missing his arm. (So if the "incident" and fertility problems are a result of a problem with Jughead, then maybe the incident happened after Charlotte was born/conceived(?) )
1985- the Blast Door Map shows AH/MDG incident (which is still a mystery)
I don't know, it just helped me put all this in perspective, but I guess it really doesn't answer any questions definitively. I concur that it would only make sense that someone would have known about the H bomb and let Juliet know so that she could figure that into her fertility research.
There certainly seem to be quite a few former islanders ending up in the real world.
I also agree that Locke is meant to be their leader. He only told this to Richard after Jacob/Island/Ben made him realize such. I don't think he's creating a false present/future by manipulating the past. In fact, I don't think Locke has had any control over anything that has happened to him his entire life, because his future had already been determined. Therefore, he was essentially invincible (like getting shoved out of the window by his dad). This is probably the basis for why he is a man of faith, while Jack is a man of science. Jack's future hadn't been set for him until he left the island, while Locke's future was set before he was even born.
I also think the time jumps represent the island going into some kind of correction/adjustment mode. Notice that time is jumping in a deliberate and patterned order once the key event has happened (Faraday telling Desmond to find his mom, Richard giving Locke the compass, Locke telling Richard that he is their future leader, etc...). The order of operation is key to fix the future - hence the need to get the O6 back to the island within a very precise time window.
amused - but since we've never seen the Others speak Latin until now, I think it's safe to say that it wasn't used in their everyday lives. I agree that you can pick up a language quickly when living in a place where it's spoken, but we've never heard a single Latin word uttered on the island until this week. I think it was just a gimmick so that Juliet could quickly prove she was one of them.
Which leads me to one of my favorite Sawyer lines from this episode: "I hate to interrupt your I'm an Other, you're an Other reunion." :)
memphish - Y: The Last Man just ended last year, and they're supposedly making a movie of it, so I wouldn't be surprised if they republished a larger volume eventually. And I haven't read Ex Machina, but Mr. Mel does and he really likes it. He keeps telling me to read it, but I just haven't gotten around to it yet.
blueheron13 said:
But there is all the counter-evidence, such as his paralysis being healed, the fact that he seems to be "in tune" with the island to some degree (or at least knows when it's going to stop and start raining), and the fact that he heard Jacob and saw Christian/Claire in the cabin.
Rose's cancer was also cured. And Naomi's injuries healed quickly along with Jack's appendectomy. His intuness (is that a word) could be because of his time traveling. Hurley also saw someone through the cabin window. Not to mention many other dead people.
amused2bhere said:
Melissa...if the language was used in their everyday lives, oh yes you could become quite fluent in a new language in three years! Immersive training really works.
I agree. My brother was stationed in Japan for 3 years and spoke fluent Japanese.
Melissa
You're right we haven't seen them use Latin on a day to day basis.
But just because we haven't seen it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
People were sharing information on the island but when they tried to show us that we hated it and they had to kill Nikki and Paulo.
I know I'm being nitpicky - I just think that if they're going to use the "all Others speak Latin" card, we should have seen SOME evidence of this before. Think about how many times it would have come in handy! We don't want John to know what we're talking about - let's use Latin! Like when Ms. Klugh spoke to Mikhail in Russian.
We've seen Latin one other time--on the Blast Door Map.
Uncanny,
Interesting thoughts. So there are at least two ways to be invincible: 1) if you are destined to travel into the past later, or 2) if the Island isn't quite done with you yet (like with Michael).
About the time jumps, who/what do you think is controlling the jumping?
To those who are theorizing about the swan being built around Jughead, the thing that was behind the concrete wall was a giant electro magnet, as revealed in Lost:Via Domus, and it has been confirmed that it is canon to the series:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Incident_Room
I think it will return, to the series at some point, possibly during the season 5 finale. I also wonder if it's still there during the present, because when when keamy said they were going to torch the island, perhaps he meant detonate the bomb, as setting fire to the island would really work too well.
Wow, the bomb could have been part of the Secondary Protocol! Unless that would have made it impossible for Widmore to subsequently use the Island for whatever his purposes are.
Thanks for the link to the article.
Dale - I don't think the canonicity of the contents of the space behind the concrete is so cut-and-dried as you believe it to be. My understanding is that the general blueprint or layout of the spaces of the Swan are essentially canon, but not necessarily the contents of those spaces (read: EM facility)
blueheron13
I'd forgotten about the Latin on the blast door map. Radzinsky and Kelvin we're Dharmathough no Others.
Melissa
No you're not being nitpicky. You have a valid point.
Kyle
That's what I was thinking.
I thought I seen a podcast where they said it wasn't exactly canon. That wasn't there exact words. But that's the meaning I got from it.
Thanks.
I meant strictly canon. Not exactly canon.
Bad wording.
Well, I know from trying to learn Latin that it is an extremely difficult language to learn! And, by not seeing one DI person conversing in Latin in all the DI scenes we've seen, makes Juliet and these Others seem to come out of left field. It is not an easy casual conversation language to use and learn.
i agree with the camp that says locke made his own fate, richard bent the rules to let locke be the leader, by letting him have sawyer kill his father for him, had locke not visited richard in the past i doubt he would have made the exception. I think Abbadon is the missing piece of the puzzle, lets not forget he prodded locke to go on his walkabout despite cooper breaking his spine and his will along with it. It sort of reminds me how hurley had to fight to make the plane and jack had to argue to make the plane, and not to mention sayid almost got caught up by customs, probably no coincidence that they are also O6. I think that dream in the flight terminal that locke had in his sweat house will become more important. Maven already pointed out how a lady from the terminal was in this last episode, i think that whole scene is an allegory for things to come. I also like the idea that dan's timetrippin lady had the same name as the girl from boone's fall up the stairs and fall down the stairs dream, maybe a metaphor for her time skipping back and forth in her mind
julliette would already have a latin background from being a scientist
and probably know spanish which would give her a leg up on latin since shes from miami
I think that we just have to use the old suspension of disbelief thing concerning the Latin. They used it, Juliet spoke it back, and that's all we need to know I guess. :o)
It does make it more interesting to me, remembering that it was on the BD map, tx Blueheron for the reminder.
2costa: I don't think Juliet's doctor background would give her enough Latin to use it in a conversation mode. My husband has a law background which uses a lot of Latin phrases, but he got nowhere in learning Latin! LOL
BTW: I don't think it was me that brought up the same person in the library at Oxford and the ticket counter. But I did see somewhere that they use local actors in small parts, and apparently, this means nothing for the story.
I do like your point that most of the O6 had to fight to get on Flight 815...almost as if they were drawn to it.
i think faraday said to find his mother at oxford because she was probably there 3 years earlier, we know eloise hawkings was in england to tell desmond not to get married at some point, maybe she's only in l.a. to work on the event horizon window. At first when i found out hawkings first name was eloise i thought back that faraday only told desmond to sak oxford faraday about eloise, meaning he could have meant the rat or hawkings, the only thing that goes against that is that he gave dan the right frequency to transports the rats mind through time, which makes it seem like he meant rat eloise.
Desmond met Mrs. Hawking at the jewelry store pre-1996 before he went into the army. But I agree 2Costa that Oxford was the place Daniel expected his mother to be in 2004/5.
Also Sun was going to run from Jin and not get on the flight but changed her mind.
And Kate was a prisoner and put on the flight it wasn't a choice.
Not that I'm saying I think it means anything, but it is interesting.
i know that memphis i meant from last season when desmond was on the freighter and faraday was on the island, he told desmond to find earlier dan at oxford and ask him about eloise(he didn't say eloise my lab rat, so i'm saying if eloise hawkings is his mom it had a double meaning, dan probably named the rat in honor of his mom). when desmond met hawkings in 95 in the jewelry store, it had nothing to do with dan and he didn't know her name. As we now know It did have a little to do with dan back at the jewelry store because if desmond marries penny he doesnt go on a race around the world, 815 probably never crashes, the failsafe never gets turned and subsequently daniel never makes it to the island
Erich said: "What do we really know about the Swan implosion? Any chance that the safe guard was designed to deal with whatever the button push was "venting" (like, say, an unstable H-bomb) by sending it away through some kind of time shift technology? Maybe into the future? That could be why Des got zapped into the past and why there's no longer a need to push a button
Of course, if that's true, it means the bomb will probably reappear at some point in the future. Could that be the catastrophe the O6 have to return to stop?"
I was thinking something very similar.
Uncanny - yes, I noticed that there seemed to be a pattern to their time jumping because Richard seemed to know when he gave Locke the compass what time period he would be jumping to next. He said that the next time he saw him, he wouldn't know who he was.
Dale - according to that very same lostpedia article, the via domus game is NON-canon.
sayid's girls thats a great point non of the o6 had an easy time getting on that plane
my point was that eloise hawkings was in england in 1995, so maybe she was there in 2004 as well, assuming eloise hawkings is dan's mom
i think the fact that jughead never detonated may mean it may never detonate, i feel that after the swan imploded its either zapped the bomb to another time as mentioned or its just leaking mad radiation, which coupled with the breach in the vault and the turning of the donkey wheel is causing the time shifts, all the more interesting that desmond was naked, locke was deaf , and eko was near death. Weirdlt charlie was at the beach even though he was with eko when the swan imploded
i dont think richard knows the pattern of the jumps he knew locke would go to the earlier time that richard didn't already know him because he remembered locke coming to his camp 50 years earlier and giving him the compass. Which if anything just shows its the only time he'll run into richard, otherwise richard would have remmbered other times
if anything locke is gonna leave the island before the time jumps stop, in my mind the 06 have to go back to stop the jumps
Dang you LOST I can't get you out of my head.
I just had this idea. It's been bugging me about how and when the O6 can return to the Island and how Faraday's talking to Desmond on Island in a time skip created a memory in Desmond 3 years after the date it should have been to Dan's body.
I wonder if there is a "future" on Island after the wheel has been turned. Or I guess what I really wonder is if there's a present. They way the time skips are occurring it's going to be impossible for the LBs to figure out when a 24 hour period has passed from Jan 3, 2005 to Jan 4, 2005 as an example. Dan talks about them skipping into the past or the future, but he doesn't mention the present. And so far we haven't gotten any information to suggest that they've skipped to a day when the beach camp existed in spite of the fact that they did skip to a post-Swan implosion time.
I guess my conclusion is that the O6 + Desmond need to return to a time just past FDW turning and put time on Island back on course as of approx. Jan 1, 2005 though I don't know what that means in terms of the 3 or more years those off Island will have lived off Island.
But I can't figure out how 3 years can pass on Island given what's going on with any of the LBs surviving that long. Nor can I figure out how they could mark that time. Unless maybe they're wearing a watch with a date?
good points memphish, wish I had an answer....:)
Memphish- Maybe 3 years doesn't have to pass for the island. Dan said in "because you left" that the island could be jumping too. Maybe all that has to happen is for the LBs and the island to jump to Jan. 1 2005 or when the event window shows the island in the here and now and the O6 can get back to it. I'm sure there's more to it than all of this, but it's an idea... :-)
maybe I should have posted this as well:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Lost:_Via_Domus#Canonical_merit
Darlton have confirmed what is behind the concrete wall in the swan is canon.
Hi everyone!!!
I finally finished my write-up and I've been visiting my buddies in the Lost-verse. I am in the process of doing some research into the Widmore/Hanso/Paik-DI connection. I've been reading some of the really heavy-into-it blogs and sending an email to Damon, but I've only gotten one answer that I feel is strongly correct about it. In essence, here's what I've found that I trust:
"Right now, the general consensus seems to be that Hanso
subcontracted to Widmore and Paik while DHARMA infrastructure was
being built, and perhaps even while it was operating. And then
Widmore took over Hanso at a later point, possibly after the Purge.
But it is based on a loose interpretation of numerous sources of questionable canonicity.
Hopefully, with these time skips, we will be able to learn more
about it first hand.
--
Regards,
Mike"
LOST_ABCTV Yahoo group
From another group (older_lost_fans),babyturniphead said:
"Charles accused Ben of stealing from him so does that mean that he had financed the Dharma Initiative and therefore considers that the island belongs to him?
I can see why many of us (fans) sort of jumped to the conclusion that we did. The heavy implication of Widmore/Hanso/Paik involvement in the Dharma Initiative in the show. But nothing concrete. Is this a hint? or could it be misdirection?
I sincerely hope that this will be answered this season, because I have a feeling that I may not get an answer from the writers...I can't imagine that they would have the time with the zillions of other questions they are bombarded with!
Anyway, Memphish, I concede the point that there is no concrete evidence at this point of a connection between Widmore and Dharma, only between Widmore and Oceanic Airlines.
*that was fun! I love research...:D*
Anyway, I've certainly enjoyed reading the posts!
xxoo
Thanks for doing that Ellen!
Any ideas how a new Dharma, this one from the most recent ARG fits in? I don't think Widmore would be involved in such a shoddy organization. :-)
Brianne, that's basically what I'm thinking too about those who left going to the day the time skipping started. The only problem is wouldn't that change their pasts since they actually lived Jan 2005 in our world?
I'm also interested in this idea that forces were combining to get everyone who survived 815 on Island. That's an idea that's been around since S1. Remember the repopulate the earth with this cross section of people theories? But here's what I don't get. Why would Widmore, Ben, Hawking, Abaddon, etc. work so hard to the everyone to the Island knowing that the O6 who aren't supposed to leave will? Maybe they all had "false" flashes sort of like Desmond had of Claire and Aaron on the helicopter after Charlie died? Or maybe they refused to accept flashes of them leaving and messing things up as true? Brain cramp.
OT
Hey guys. Why is it that when I do a google search every site listed has this site may harm your computer?
Is this because of that huge virus going around?
I just asked the same question on Twitter. Dunno!
I just googled the queston why do all my searches say this site may harm your computer and got this as the first return. From google.com
"We want our users to feel safe when they search the web, and we're continuously working to identify dangerous sites and increase protection for our users."
I didn't click on it to read anymore.
Then I googled google, and got the same this site may harm your computer. So I'm still confused.
I'd hate to get my computer fried. I've only had a year. Even ABC.com says it.
Who knows.shrug.
Yay! I finally caught up on the messages! Now I have to remember what I was thinking.
First, I also thought of Teresa falling up the stairs.
Widmore is a puzzle. Is it possible that he never had a partnership with Hanso or Paik but had been doing some power-brokering in his efforts to find the island? He could pretend to work with them while combining their money and resources with his own.
2costa, you said that Richard was constant. Maybe he is a "constant."
BarbaraJay you raise an interesting point. Why would Widmore ever want to share HIS Island with Hanso or Paik? Since Widmore Industries seems to make everything it seems like he wouldn't need them. Of course Hanso has that separate claim on the Island via Magnus and the Black Rock. I always loved the theories that Widmore was actually a Hanso, perhaps even Magnus Hanso, but I don't think they're right. Widmore having to buy the Hanso owned Black Rock journal seems to pretty well establish there is not a close personal or familial link between Widmore and the Hansos.
Buy the journal at auction I meant to say. If they were close he should have been able to get the journal in a private sale.
Brianne said: "Maybe all that has to happen is for the LBs and the island to jump to Jan. 1 2005 or when the event window shows the island in the here and now and the O6 can get back to it." Me likey! :o)
Tx Ellen for heeping clear that up. I've always interpreted that Wid's and Paik's many companies were hired by Hanso to furnish his projects with their many products, and we have seen throughout the show and games that their products are pervasive where ever Dharma is.
OT; use Altavista instead of Google while Google has problems, Altavista has no problems whatesoever and is very user friendly. :-)
Thanks for all that hard research, Ellen! I wonder why we haven't heard from any Hanso relative since Alvar. We're getting a lot of family background with Paik and Widmore and their connections to island happenings. Hanso just seems to be out of the picture for now, unless Richard Alpert turns out to be Magnus Hanso!
Apparently Eliose Hawkings knows the calculations for something that will happen in 70 hours. Could that be when the island will time-skip to present time and allow it to be seen and get the O6 back and course correct whatever is out-of-sync?
(OT: BTW I have a terrible virus that redirects anything I click on when using Google or Yahoo search. I have to cut and paste the URL to get to a site. Trying to get rid of it is way beyond me, and I guess a visit to the Geek Squad is in order. Has anyone had this happen to them. Sayid'sgirl, I haven't seen the warning thing come up for me.)
God, those redirect bugs are a pain in the butt!
Get Ad-Aware and Spybot Search & Destroy, before you start shelling out bucks.
OT: Thanks, Kyle. I already have Trend Micro, but I guess this virus got through somehow. My hubby said I must have clicked on something wrong, but I don't know what happened. (He always puts the blame on Facebook leaving me vulnerable.)
I'm not having any problems with Google. I'm using Safari on a Mac.
I wonder if the fact that the Others speak Latin tells us how old Richard is. Do they speak Latin because it's Richard's native tongue?
Good thought Memphish. And did TPTB particularly choose an actor with Latin dark eyelashes, for this Latin character I wonder? :o)
i agree with kyle search in Spy Bot search and destroy rocks
i think that the island does exist in the present still, when richard fixed up locke's gunshot wound I got the impression that he was slightly in the future on the island from the point the donkey wheel was turned because he said the o6 were already gone, it was such a short flash we never saw where/when everyone else was.
I also think the island is physically moving, the points on the map on hawkings computer were all over water so i assume they are all spots the island is capable of moving to.
I assume that locke will have to leave the island within the time jumps and pass his message to the O6, the )6 will stop the time flashes by going to the island in the present 2007. I feel there are only 2 possabilites for stopping the time jumps, either fix the breach in the orchids vault or perhaps the donkey wheel has to be turned back to it's original position. I think the O6 are th e ovnes to do it because Ben doesn't trust giving access to the island to anyone else. I feel that's why Ben told jack gather his things because he will never come back...
sort of on the subject of the latin, iv'e always felt that the island moved around throughout history by means of the frozen donkey wheel. It may have hidden in the greek isles, hence appollo references(linus was one of the sons of appollo btw:raised by wolves i think, interesting that ben was given such a significant name, ben being the biblical son of jacob and linus the son of appollo , which seems to belie bens special status(son of dharma,appollo bars, and leader of the others who are led by jacob). Maybe the island was off the coast of italy at some point, hence the latin and the four toed statue seemed to have a roman sandal. Then maybe the island was somewhere in the middle east(perhaps in the persian gulf), hence the heiroglyphs
2costa said:
i think that the island does exist in the present still, when richard fixed up locke's gunshot wound I got the impression that he was slightly in the future on the island from the point the donkey wheel was turned because he said the o6 were already gone,
Also when Locke asked Richard how did you know I have a bullet in my leg. Richard said you told me. Locke replies I never... Richard says you will...
I wondered that about the Latin, too capcom, maybe it was Richard's native language. Or maybe it is a sacred language or has some significance with the Temple. You know like Catholic masses that are still delivered in Latin. Although I can't imagine anyone learning it fluently unless they used it a lot. I hope the answer to that is not just something we have to accept/overlook.
I also wonder about what Kyle said yesterday about the Others always using disguises- who are they hiding from, or what is the purpose of them? I hadn't thought about it until now, but Richard has a very modern haircut and dress (at least 20th century). The only time we saw him look different was when he met Ben in the jungle when Ben was young. But that date would have been after the 1954 and 1956 appearances of Richard where he looks the same as always. So what is up with the long scraggly hair and beards and tattered clothes that the Others like to don now and then?
It always puzzled me as well as to how easily Juliet accepted Richard's age and Jacob's power. I guess a lot can happen in 3 years, but seriously, if I had been brought to an island and someone introduced me to Richard and told me he was 500 years old (or whatever)- how long would it take for me to really believe that? And how long would it take for me to believe in someone like Jacob who Ben said would cure my sister's cancer? There are definitely some God/Jesus kind of undertones here. I guess that is part of TPTB's purpose- coinciding with all the other religious/spiritual themes.
BTW- I heart Richard's eyelashes.
Thanks for that link, Dale. I hadn't seen that before.
once they said something to julliette about doubting the island after the things youv'e seen when she was only there a year. I have a feeling julliette knows more of whats going on then she lets on. She never seemed to think she was getting saved last season, i tend to think that in this time loop, jack may have not left the island the first time because of his appendix, so ben injected julliett into the 815'ers to be able to fix jack up so he coulde make it off the island, just as richard fixed up locke wound. To all of you who dont think Ben planned on the O6 making it back, why did he imediately recruit sayid in tunesia. Or how did the butcher shop operative know that Ben would have locke in his van. I think under the old rules ben wasn't supposed to let the O6 leave, and ultimately never get back, but when widmore changed the rules, ben used it as an excuse that he changed the timeline, with the help of frank to time it perfectly. Christain and the island didn't seem to want jack to ever leave, if jack wasn't a hero he would have given up. i think the man of science man of faith thing is still in play, the spiritual power of the island makes jack sick so he will stay, but julliette uses science to change that. Hawkings who is like the epitome of science with her rules of course correction and event horizen equipment hammerered that point home when she sai"may god help us all"
Yes Dale, thanks for the link! That was a fun read. I always forget to check back on Lostpedia for updates added onto things that I've read a while ago.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_n3eH1jI8AZ8/SYEU6euPeCI/AAAAAAAAOo0/izv124iIGhY/s1600-h/faraday-m
if this picture in dan's office was supposed to be him and his mom, either his mom is not hawkings or the hawkings we know if from some time in the future, because there is no way she aged that much since faraday was sporting the mullet. If anything it looks much more like the other that read jack's tatoo while he was caged. i did track down a photo of Fionulla Flanigan (who plays hawkings) when she was younger you be the judge.
http://www.yammeringmagpie.com/catalog/images/legend%20of%20lizzy%20borden.jpg
2costa: Most think that picture found in Dan's lab is him and Teresa...the woman who is a time-tripping invalid now that Desmond visits.
that makes sense, sure doesn't look like hawkings, seems like shes a bit of an urban cougar then, cause mullet dan looks like a baby compared to her.
for the record nestor cabonnella denies ever wearing guyliner and or manscara
some have speculated that she is dan's sister instead of his lover, and when he said ellie reminded him of someone it was his sister, which would make even more sense if ellie is a young version of his mother i would make perfect sense she would remind him of his sister. Also some have speculated that it's his sister and widmore is father to them both, but i think widmore would keep tabs on someone time mind trippping just for the insights it might provide.
great ep!
Do you think Dan abandoned Teresa and Widmore picked up the slack or that Widmore sent Desmond out of the country to protect him from getting locked up in jail or a loony bin a la Walter on Fringe? I'm not sure I think Daniel is enough of a self-preservationist to run like Kate to save his own skin, but I could see Widmore helping him to "solve" his problem with the caveat that Dan owes him one, one that Dan pays him back by going to the Island on the Freighter. I could see a scene occurring somewhat like the one between wheelchair Locke and Abaddon.
memphish, I love the idea that Latin is Richard's native tongue.
I've been thinking about the FDW. Ben had to blast through the chamber to reach it. Dr. Chang stopped the crew from drilling through to it. Was Daniel there to help them use whatever the power was emanating from it without actually uncovering it? Maybe Ben and the DI were able to control the power and do limited jumping through time and space after the purpling.
Also, I've always thought there was something about the water on the island. Maybe it's radiation seepage from Jughead. I can't remember exactly when but at one point we saw Ben's diary and he was concerned about running out of bottled water. Because the groundwater is contaminated?
The water thing was in Ben's journal when the Others had bugged out from Othersville. But Michael Emerson said that he was the one who made it up. TPTB approved, but it's not something they actually intended BarbaraJay. Still, could be.
Thanks, memphish. I wasn't aware of that.
Also, I made a mistake. I meant Ben and the Others controlled the power because the DI was long gone by the purpling.
About course corrections: Charlie had to die no matter what Desmond did. Locke had to live even though he was thrown out a window and shot. Michael couldn't commit suicide. There must be a predestined time to die. Did Locke catch up to his? What about all of the people who died? Was it their time?
Is that also why Mikhail couldn't die? Because it was his destiny to kill Charlie, so until Charlie was dead, Mikhail couldn't die either?
Hello, everybody! It's been a long time!
We're saving up the whole season to watch in one big get-go so I'm flying blind again this season. But I like it here so much that it's worth spoiling the episodes to get to theorize, even if I don't have a lot to contribute.
I read Slaughterhouse 5 (when I meant to read Cat's Cradle) and am glad I did! It makes the "lost in time" thing clearer.
Not having seen the first three episodes, do they do a good job of explaining how moving the island back in time joins the "present" members of the island to the "past" members of the island? I find that odd.
Scifiwire had an interview with Nestor Carbonell (Richard Alpert). Nestor swears it's not guyliner but his dark thick lashes.
I like the Latin for the Latin thought. The Romans went practically everywhere else! Lol! So what would the Romans want with the island and were they before or after the four toes thing?
I've always been under the impression that Widmore was friends with Hanso, gave him an office in the Widmore buildling, and even suggested the island to Hanso for use by DHARMA. But now I have no idea where I got that impression from!?
It makes sense to me that Widmore would have left before the purge, probably because I'm working off the above assumption that Widmore already had a corporation and was in a position to help Hanso get to the island. Maybe Widmore left the island, made a fortune, returned to the island with DHARMA to try to reassert control, and then had his big conflict with Ben?
Also someone brought up Mrs. Hawking warning Desmond not to marry Penny but go to the island where pushing the button "will be the only great thing you do in life." Does this warning have any bearing on Des and Penny's marriage now?
Blue Heron brought up the question of Desmond at the stadium and how much he knew when he talked to Jack. From back when Desmond first started time skipping I had the thought that it was island Desmond actually speaking to Jack at the stadium. Guess they are leaving it fuzzy.
So glad the Lost fun has begun again! I finally have two close friends who watched the first three seasons on DVD, caught up to me, and are now passing me by watching Lost weekly! It's nice to have people local to talk Lost with!
Lost2010, that's a good point about Mikhail. I never really thought about it that way.
I just read on DarkUFO (in the comments for the LOST showdown) that there were no points this week in the lost prediction league and that the tables ar unchanged. I don't really understand that. No points? Really? None at all?
i think widmore needed hanso to find the island again, after all magnus hanso is buried on the island, and 1996 widmore purchased the black rock ledger from a hanso family member...
What language would they have spoken on Atlantis? Or Mu?
That is a good point about Mikhail...everyone has a destiny to fulfill.
Hey, Twinkle! Good to see you popping in to say hi and contribute even though your not watching yet. I cannot fathom that!
THE LOST COMMUNITY: IT'S THE MINDBLOWING EPISODE of THE LOST COMMUNITY PODCAST. Join hosts David A Dein and Steve "The Goog" Guglich as they unpack the episode "Jughead." Along the way your two hosts will bombard you with theories that are calculated to give you Brian Freeze.
If you'd like to be a guest on the podcast, have any theories, discover any clues, or just want to say "Hi!", contact TLCpodcast@gmail.com (mp3 comments are accepted as well), or leave a voice mail or fax at (206) 202-3512.
BTW: If you consider content gleamed from the Enhanced Episodes of Lost as spoiler please skip the first twenty minutes of the podcast.
Episode 52 - Jughead
Good point Barbarjay, about the water and Ben's notes (written by M.E. or not, TPTB know we'd scour those notes! :-). That makes me think even more that if it's the radiation from Jughead that messes up fetuses (fetii?) that someone should have said to Juliet, "Oh by the way, our water glows in the dark soooo you might just want to add that variable to your research." :-B
Hey Twinkle! Nice to have you back, I was wondering if you'd come around. And great thoughts too!
Oh wow Lost2010, Charlie didn't have a snowball's chance in heck with Patchy after him if it was Patchy's island destiny to kill Chahlee! :-o
I read a book about Mu (Lemuria) when I was kid Memphish, I can't remember waht language they are thought to have spoken. I'm sure we can find it on Wiki tho.
happy Super bowl Sunday everyone
go Cardinals!
go Steelers!
go Tampa!
eh, NY isn't in it, so go everybody!
tee hee
Courtesty of Wiki - On Mu, they would have spoken Eqyptian or a Maya/Nagu dialect. . .
Spoken latin on the other hand - "It was the international language of science and scholarship in central and western Europe until the 17th century. There are two varieties of Latin: Classical Latin, the literary dialect used in poetry and prose, and Vulgar Latin, the form of the language spoken by ordinary people. Vulgar Latin was preserved as a spoken language in much of Europe after the decline of the Roman Empire, and by the 9th century diverged into the various Romance languages."
So if Richard was a scientist on the Black Rock, maybe? I dunno.
Thanks Lost2010!
BTW, here's some pretty funny news about E.Lilly:
http://deceiver.com/2009/01/30/evangeline-lilly-to-sell-lingerie-for-children/
I just read an interesting article about Foucault's Pendulum.
http://itotd.com/articles/362/foucaults-pendulum/
I was wondering how the point from which the pendulum was hung could be considered "fixed" when it was moving along with the earth. This article explores that a little bit.
OT
I just heard on the news that an employee at google that was updating the flagged websites made a typo. That's why all the websites said this site may be harmful to your computer the other day. oops
Sayid's girl- that google employee was probably one of the former TLE interns! LOL
Ok I was just browsing some Evangeline Lilly stuff and came across some candid photos of her on the LOST set. Don't worry, I'm not gonna say anything about what I saw except that we should be in for some interesting things this season....:)
FYI: Alan Dale (Widmore) was on "Flight of the Conchords" tonight, playing the Australian Ambassador ribbing Jermaine and Murray about being from New Zealand.
Hi all, my impressions of the episode this week were that it was more of a setup episode than a blockbuster, enjoyable but ultimately frustrating
I have to say that I was spoiled in a big way this week, don't worry I won't tell you how, and it was a relatively logical turn of events that makes me so excited about that episode when it airs.
The spoiler happened on a show about Lost that was produced by Sky 1 in the UK, called "Lost on Location" it involved a TV presenter visiting the set of Lost and trying to take part in a scene. He chatted to the actors and the whole thing was very funny, especially Josh Holloway.
Anyway all the time they are wandering round talking to people on the set, the actors are in the background of the shots preparing / rehearsing for the scenes and for the casual viewer maybe not so much of a spoiler, but for the dedicated Lost fan it was jump up and down, shout out loud at the televeision time.
All I will say is look out for the Gardener !
Hey, guys -
I was catching up on my G4 Lost 2.0 viewing this weekend - because I ended up watching the rest of season 4 on DVD to prepare for season 5, I've just been scrolling through the 2.0 episodes to read the pop-ups. And there was finally something interesting!
In the 2nd part of the finale, when Sawyer jumps out of the helicopter, according to the pop-up, he whispers to Kate, "I have a daughter in Albuquerque. Find her, tell her I'm sorry."
I may be way behind the ball on this one, but it seems like this is the first confirmation of the theory that I've heard.
ML,
Good find! I've never seen anyone post exactly what Sawyer whispered.
it's been a much posted over thing of what Sawyer said to Kate. TPTB said he really didn't say anything as of yet, they just told him to make it look like he did say something and it has yet to be determined what he said. Also I have heard that it isn't the writers of the show that post the pop ups but that I'm not positive on. Lisa
The Jay and Jack Listener Theory of the Week, that is the 2nd one, is excellent. He speculates that the reason Charlotte is sick but no one else is that in the time jumping her on-Island parents are killed before she is born, so she is fading from the picture a la Marty McFly in Back to the Future.
I agree that something in her past is changing that is causing her problem, but never thought of it being her parents' (or at least her mom's) death due to time jumps. Whatever it is, I hope it's resolved this week because I'm tired of bloody Charlotte (and you can read that with 2 meanings.)
Oooo, that's an intriguing thought Memphish!
I noticed that no one is talking about the promo at the end of the episode, even though that is not considered a spoiler according to the rules. I was wondering, is there now a prohibition on discussing the promo?
blueheron - discussing the promos that air at the end of the episodes is allowed.
Maybe just mention in your post that you're talking about the promo, so that if anyone is REALLY spoilerphobic, they can skip it.
Lisa - good point on the pop-ups not coming from the writers. I'm not sure either. They do have pop-ups that start with "Damon says" or "Carlton says," but this wasn't one of them.
I did turn it WAY up after I read that, and I could kind of make out "tell her I'm sorry" at the end, but they have been because that's what I was expecting to hear.
here's the transcripts for that too and they say that what he said can not be understood.
LAPIDUS: I'd feel a hell of a lot better if we were a few hundred pounds lighter! Well, if we don't make it, we're still close enough to ditch it on the beach.
JACK: Hey! Do not go back to the island!
LAPIDUS: We might not have a choice, Doc.
SAWYER: Hey... (whispering indistinctly)
KATE: Why are you telling me this?
(Sawyer and Kate kiss)
SAWYER: Just do it, Freckles.
(Sawyer jumps from the chopper)
KATE: Sawyer!
blueheron13
What did you want to say about the preview?
Some of the quickly flashed pictures were interesting. Along with what Sawyer says at the end.
Is any of this what you caught or something else?
One would think that Darlton would have some say as to what goes in the pop-ups. They do try to keep such a tight leash on the story. What bugs me more is that they put Eloise's name in the pop-ups but not in the show. Maybe it was a "whoops" we forgot to say Hawkings' first name, we better let it out before we introduce Ellie.
I watched that promo, and the ending with Sawyer is the most intriguing because it will deal with the "what if" we've discussed here...
Yes it is maven. And if you're able to look at it in slo mo or frame by frame. You'll see some familiar scenes.
From the promo...
It looks like our time-travelers will skip (or have already skipped) back to 2004. There is the light coming of out of the Swan's hatch, and that shot of what looks like Claire giving birth to Aaron in the jungle. I'm excited about this--I wonder if any of the LB's will encounter their past selves this time!
Also, Locke, Charlotte (who is still alive), Sawyer, Juliet, and Miles are rowing some kind of boat (where is the Zodiac?). Maybe if they jump to 2004, they figure they can try to escape from the island (because they would know the correct bearing for that time period).
blueheron13
Yeah I seen all of that. It is exciting isn't. I checked my Season 1 DVD and all that happens in the episode Do No Harm. And Kate and Claire are wearing the same clothes in the preview as in the Season 1 episode. BTW when they're all in that boat Sawyer says to Juliet he seen Kate in the jungle. I'm not sure they'll encounter themselves, but it looks like they'll will at least encounter people from their recent past.
They do know the correct bearing in 2004. The thing is how do they know they can get outside of the "barrier" before they time jump again?
Melissa? Dennis? Is there a reason the podcast hasn't gone up yet??
I like your "whoops" theory Maven! X-D
They should give you admin status Passafist so you can put one up when you're ready.
Ded & Melissa,are still leading The Lost Community in the LFL.
Way to go you two.( tied for 82 overall).
I fell back a bit;I picked Widmore...Oh Snap!
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pXy_MMpweXkAE1SK-9uWMAA
The sites are in alphabetical order
in the center of the page.
Nice podcast David & Steve.
Yes, congrats go to Ded & ML for continuing to lead the pack!
Listening to the podcast now.
Thanks, Capcom. :)
Guys and gals, you've got to see this short vid, if you haven't already:
http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/2009/02/lost-fun-song.html
X-D
Today's weird moment. My son got Endless Ocean for the Wii this weekend. It's a game about sea exploration. He was diving just now and when he got back to his boat there was a POLAR BEAR on it. He claims to not be near the Arctic. The bear does not have a DI collar. Yeah, I looked.
LOL, that's funny and spooky, Memphish. Thanks for link, Capcom...very well done.
Just a thought I picked up from the podcast: Hanso made his money in arm dealing, and then he "found the light" and worked for the betterment of mankind. But in his arm dealing days, would he have been involved with the bomb, Jughead?
That's still my favorite Lost music video of all time. I laugh every time.
Hi all. I'm back again.
I've been thinking about this Bomb/Swan question. I am swaying more towards it not being there, but there are a few things of note:
In season 2, Sayid said the only time he had heard of this much concrete being poured over something was Chernobyl.
Alvar Hanso was at the time of those events on the island, the leading purveyor of high-technology armaments for NATO.
So it could be that bomb is an A-Bomb, that is an Alvar-Bomb. What that means is the chances of Dharma knowing about it is increased (even if it wasn't his design there is a good chance he'd be aware of such a device being tested), but I would think that would make it more likely that they wouldn't accidentally build a station on it. Would they deliberately do it?
There is certainly enough there to make us ask about the swan and the bomb. But it's far from certain.
Hey Fenris! Is that all ya got for us? j/k But you usually have everything figured out!
BTW, Charlie is on Chuck tonight. Literally, almost, Dom plays a bloody rock god. X-D
Congrats to Ded and Melissa
I came up 785 points thanks to Penny. And probably Sayid being absent. :) But I'm still in the basement.
Also the Swan had blast doors and Desmond told Locke it would take an atom bomb to blow them when Eko was trying to blow them with dynamite.
I'm right below you, Sayid'sgirl!
Hi Capcom. I would have had it all figured out, except that I've been ill. I think Widmore poisoned my food.
Actually, I kinda had an almost written Bullet Points, but lost track of time and then episode 3 was on, so had to shelve it. I'll hopefully get one up before the next episode. I have a few more ideas from this episode (and the last one), don't worry. :)
I just need to get them straight in my head before I post about them (and catch up a bit on what other people are saying).
Man I'm so bad at the fantasy league stuff it's amazing!
Fenris- welcome back! Glad to see you around these parts again.
I like the idea of Charlotte's parents- or at least her mom- dying being the explanation of her nosebleeds/illness. Maybe that is why she couldn't remember her mother's name. I bet that is it.
memphish- that is too weird about the polar bear in the boat...just too weird.
Interesting notes about what has been said about the Swan...it seems they at least want us to consider there being a bomb under there.
Oh and I saw Dom on Chuck- it was funny that he was a rock star! He's got that one down good.
The LFL table for The Lost Community is
DeD-LoSTieS
Lossa's Losties
x-1
Elizabeth's Wicked LOST
You Don't Know Jack
Team LuckyGuyLikeMe
greek-lost-team
Weagle Weagle War Eagle Fantasy Team
valerianmud
TheLostZort
S.W.A.T.
Bigdog
FYSB's Fantasy Picks
theVillage8
8OrangeSmiles
Goatzilla
codysmom
Sterling
UC is lost in time, space, and sanity
Deceased-clown
They've all lostit
Tsol
Sayid's Army
maven
Detroit Blue Herons
Memphish
Eight is Enough
Team NO WORMHOLES
Sailormoon73's LFL
There is a new DocArzt post up and it is quite an interesting read (no spoilers that I can see)
It also mentions two of my favourite BBC TV shows, Doctor Who and Torchwood !
Okay here is something interesting:
US Swan Device
That Doc Artz article is goldust and I think he's on to something with that Lost Books clue.
Here's another thing. They are speaking Vulgar Latin in that episode. That is not as Doc Artz says the language of science and religion. Vulgar Latin is instead the spoken language of the common folk of various areas surrounding the indian ocean in the late dark ages/early medieval period.
Lostpedia picked up on the form of Latin, I didn't notice. But I know about Vulgar Latin from reading historic novels. So what that suggests to me is that they came to the island from one of those areas at that period. Which would mean they have been on the island for around a 1000 years.
They would not likely be from the Black Rock. Although it seems they get "topped up" every now and then (by people like Juliet or Ben being recruited), so it could be that some of them originate with that ship. But I would guess the choice of language goes to their earliest routes.
It should also be noted that the use of Vulgar latin couldn't possibly be a mistake as it's easier to learn literary Latin. Vulgar Latin is the latin of spoken word rather then written, which means it is difficult for people to learn now but makes perfect sense for people to learn it from a civilisation that spoke it back in the day.
Of course they could perhaps have used Vulgar latin just to suggest that they had developed their own "folk" version from simply learning it from word of mouth and speaking it in casual conversation for a long time. Would be easier to just use Vulgar Latin then try and figure out how it may have uniquely developed. But still, I'm ignoring that.
All that talk of Vulgar Latin makes me wish they were speaking Pig Latin or for the Island, Boar Latin.
Vulgar latin gives a whole new irony to Sawyer's comment, "Enlightened, my ass", now doesn't it. . .
Sorry. . .I couldn't resist.
NEW POST!!
don't forget that the Lost repeat "jughead" is on before the regular show at 9pm I guess they will be doing this for a while it seems.
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