Tonight marks the return of LOST, with a three hour lost extravaganza. Get caught up with the "Destiny Calls" recap show, then you'll be treated to TWO new LOST episodes: Because You Left & The Lie. From ABC:
In the first part of the season premiere, entitled "Because You Left," the remaining island survivors start to feel the effects of the aftermath of moving the island, and Jack and Ben begin their quest to reunite the Oceanic 6 in order to return to the island with Locke's body in an attempt to save their former fellow castaways. In the second part, entitled "The Lie," Hurley and Sayid are on the run from the cops after stumbling into trouble at the safehouse; the island survivors come under attack by unknown forces; and an old friend offers some shocking advice to Kate in order to ensure that "the lie" remain a secret.So, we could be in for anything tonight. Ready... set... go! Theories away!
Here is the updated reading list for the 
575 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 575 of 575Kyle - I like the Boggle thing though I'm still confused about which dice you can and can't remove. Does this mean that all those LOSTies that have died prior to the FDW were unnecessary dice? What about Walt? What about Frank? What about the addition of the Charlotte, Miles and Daniel dies? Did Ben let the O6 die leave because a) he thought they wouldn't really able to anyway or b) in order to screw everyone in his grief over Alex and his own banishment? And the fact that it's just now coming to a head 3 years later is still bugging me. Why weren't those off Island (Ben, Hawking) concerned right away?
Well your niece is very sweet, and you're welcome.
Hey, believe me, I'm confused too. It depends what the spacetime marker is for resetting the dice. It would appear that the four Freighties are unnecessary because Frank isn't being tasked with coming back, nor is Naomi's body. They're just along for the ride. Whether they have to leave or not is an open question.
Walt and Michael obviously left before the marker, or else Ben wouldn't have committed Michael to a kamikaze mission.
It's also possible that the reshuffle is something Ben didn't anticipate. We've had an example (true, only one) of him being taken completely by surprise by circumstance. Maybe this is another one, or maybe his need to turn the wheel to protect the Island was so great that he was willing to F everything else up just to protect it.
Now I'm thinking that Bentham/Locke off island did actually "commit suicide" because Alpert told him he must die for everything to be right again. Maybe he did kill himself, so that it can set off the necessary steps to get everyone back to the island set things right.
I would think that the time period would be when the island started acting up. And that was when the O6 left. I think the only important people are the O6 and Desmond. Maybe Ben. I'm not sure Frank will factor in but I wish he would. I liked him.
Hi all.
I just watched it. I gotta say
"OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG!"
Okay. I need a while to digest this all. But that was so awesome.
It's good to be back!
Hey Fenris
Welcome Back.
Hey, Fenris, can't wait for your take on this time-travel stuff!
Looks like LOST did really well in the ratings against AI and CBS dramas.
Hi Fenris! Can't wait for your thoughts!
I finally get why the Island disappeared. The Island and the people on it moved to the time and PLACE the Island existed in 1991/2 probably near Africa when the Beechcraft crashed. I always hated the idea that it disappeared just because it moved in time as I'm pretty sure most Island's don't do it. But after looking at Mrs. Hawking's screen the fact that it moved in 4 dimensions pleases me.
Here's a good idea from Gitsie Girl about DI and Smokey: Also, I wonder if they somehow “unleashed” the smoke monster when they were drilling around the island.
After looking at Ms. Hawking's maps, I agree that the island is probably moving in space and time.
So, if it moved to the right space/time point to collect the Beechcraft, I wonder if will later skip to the right space/time point to collect the Black Rock?
Neat. And if that's the case, then they actually would have to get the O6 ready and at the right place and time to catch or intersept the skipping island.
did anyone mention that perhaps the chip in claire's head makes her some how exempt from the timeshifts. Part of me thinks that yes thet were all killed in the crash of 815 and a doppleganger plane was created when desond was fighting kelvin, and thus the oceanic 6 leaving is causing this whole time shift thing, but as was mentioned walt ji yeon and a lot of other things seem to discredit that. I think they all have to go back because hawkings knows that they can be trusted to stay on the island, but also fix the breach in the donkey wheel chamber that ben caused by breaking the vault. Which will in turn stop sawyer and the rest from jumping in time on the island. Who is to say that they are all dead. it seemed that course correction didn't stop things from changing other then desmond of course, there was someone waiting for locke at the heroin plane the reson was to prevent him from downing the plane early and subsequently boone not dying, so course correction by rifle. Faraday obviously thinks that things can be changed, but doesn't trust any of the others to follow "the rules". I think the reason the 815''ers are jumping and the others are not my be proxicimity, with locke being the exception, but hes very special. I think hawkings is controlling the smoke with her dharma computer and perhaps controling where and when the sawyer group jumps. I think that ben had the swan destroyed to uncloak the island to set the events in motion. the isalnd may still be exactly where it was , but cloaked once again. The timmejumpers are just jumping around because the exotic matter is breached atm, but as i said hawkings still has some control over the shifts and maybe who shifts. Maybe richard and the others have chips like claire so they are outside time so to speak on the island.
warning! long rambling post!
A few people have brough up the posibility of the Losties running into previous versions of themselves. I guess nothing is going to stop a time jump to intersect with when the Losties are already on the island (this may have already happened)... maybe we'll get some scenes like the on-Island flashbacks (Locke with the Others, Michael with the Others, Nikki & Paulo, The Other 48 Days) to show us another point of view where there are close shaves of interaction.
maven commented on Candle and the bunnies. I had been wondering about that too... but I've just thought, wouldn't that change the past, or does the future version cease to exsist so the past one isn't changed? Is this "can't change the past" thing a bit like the course-correcting (someone did allude to this, sorry I can't remember who it was), it's the major events that aren't changed, but smaller ones can? Ultimately the end result is the same
Kyle - I like your theories about Charlotte's nose bleeding because she had jumped back to a time when she was on the Island as a little girl and she did get nosebleeds then. I think most people thought of Minkowski and Desmond when they saw that, but what if, as you suggest, her nosebleed was for a completely benign reason but equally as significant? It doesn't really explain why she couldn't remember her mother's maiden name (eg except maybe at that age she didn't know it, or didn't consider it important to remember). Though I like scouts suggestion that her mum is her constant hence forgetting her name was a worry. That is also interesting about Locke being shot where his leg would later give out... I'm less sure of this theory though because something still tells me that the island is what caused Lockes leg/s to fail when trying to get to the plane with Boone (but maybe the Island can only do something like that when an event like Ethan shooting Locke happens in the past for it to draw on?)
I think Dan's "book of everything" is by his own hand... one way or another (mental time skipping or physical time skipping) he's gained this knowledge of events and he has had to note some things down to ensure he doesn't forget (and can make them happen the first time?), and possibly he's taken notes from other people's knowledge, although he himself seems rather guarded about telling people about future events.
Dan knocking on the door... I think Dan realising he forgot his backpack jogged his memory about knocking on the door, so when he went back to his backpack he looked it up in his Great Big Book of Everything (that isn't really that big but still packed with vital information) and then he knew he needed to go prod Des so he could have this memory.
I think that the people that were on the Island before the DI got there (Richard and co) stay in time with the Island. The more I think about it the more I think that Jacob plays into this. I know others have hinted at this too, but if Widmore has been looking for the island for 20 years, I would not be surprised if there had been a similar incident 20 years ago (oh wait - blast door map! AH/MDG incident?) and Widmore has been looking since then... those that were there before that incident keep in time with the island? Jacob is a bit different though, but could the incident/accidnet have something to do with his condition?
A few comments had me a little confused so I'll state the way I view Jones and the other military types: I don't think Jones is an indigenous hostile, I think his team were tracking the legs Juliet and Sawyer were watching, who were the indigenous hostiles (aka Richard's mob). The absence of any Dharma/station logo on the uniforms makes me think it was very early days when things were still being set up by the DI, maybe even before any construction was started, and they were out on recon. I'd say they had engaged very little with the hostiles at that stage, or it'd be pretty obvious from the way they behaved that Sawyer and Juliet weren't of them.
memphish: I have a problem with the island "moving" theory, tho. That is, if it actually IS just an island.
Islands are connected to the ocean floor. They don't "MOVE". Period.
So, whatever this thing is, it isn't just an island. Period. As far as I know, we haven't had (even on the show) a plate techtonics shift of such a magnitude. Otherwise, the Earth would've been half destroyed by either the shift or by the ensuing chaos.
No, I'm not gonna' swallow the "PANGEA" theory. Time travel, "underworld" theories, wormholes, etc. I really don't like any of them, but I can swallow them easier than THAT "horse-pill".
peace, love and purgatory,
chuck
marvin candle was about to say that the bunny wasn't transported to future when locke pressed rewind. I think that hawkins is controlling when they pop to as to not case a time anomoly. the way i think of it now the whole island is the orchid right now because the vault is breached, but dharma computers can still effect things
hello LoCos!
Just wondering if anyone was thinking about the vile vortices?
I was thinking maybe the "island" is hopping b/w vile vortices...and in 70 hours (per Hawking) the "island" would be back to the original vile vortex where Ben remembers it being.
That may not make any sense at all...
i think locke is definetly gonna be jacob, that why christain was there in his place because locke hadn't died yet, they neeed to bring his body to the island so he could set up metaphysical shop in his cabin...man made landmarks on the island seem to be important in the timeshifting perhaps thats why the cabin is important
i agree in 70 hours the island will be where they can find it and the timejumpers may be in the present
I was also tossing around the idea that the reason the others aren't affected by the record-skipping is because they "timeless," or dead...like Christian, Charlie, etc. Just a thought.
DEAD. I (of all people) would buy THAT.
PURGATORY!!!!!
hahaha. I'm sticking with that timeless theory. Been saying it since the first ARG.
peace, love and purgatory,
chuck
I'm not saying the entire story (show) is Purgatory, but that Purgatory has a significant role in our characters!!!
Come on powers that be, give me credit. haha.
peace, love and purgatory,
chuck
well i dont buy that because richard isn't dead he goes to the mainland, maybe the chip in clares head or maybe the roon 23 video has a way of teathering you on the island in time
Hey Brianne, I was just going to compare the vile vortices map points with the x-marks on Mrs.Hawking's computer screen image. I'll let you know what the results are!
A small floating island is supposedly possible, there are reports of volcanic plugs that pop out when a volcano blows and Alcatraz has been said to be one of these plugs (even to the point that it's said to be chained down to keep it from moving). Someone here posted some websites about that a year or so ago, but I don't know who. I'll see if I bookmarked those sites.
Alcatraz is NOT chained down. Trust me.
Used to be a Marine and was stationed in Cali. I worked a lot with Intelligence and well......let's just say "questionable" information.
And as far as a floating island, they wouldn't be like what we see on the show. They're not inhabitable.
And you could never "control" the movement of such a leviathan.
peace, love and purgatory,
chuck
but of course, i should probably toss all logic out the window by now. hahaha
peace, love and purgatory,
chuck
i agree, i also think that it might be like quantum leap the time jumps may only be in the time frame of when dharma started building stations to the present, otherwise the swan wouldn't be a landmark in the grand scheme of time. the frozen donkey wheel predates dharma and was probably a crude version of the orchid built by the heiroglyph 4 toes. This would also jive with hawkings or someone have some kind of framwork of time that they know the 815'ers will pop to. I'd say that dharm a built the whole island like a huge battleship, but the frozen donkey wheel and exotic matter seem to go against that. This may explain why richard doesnt move in time because he predates dharma as well, but the stewrdess goes against that, she was gone too when locke looked around. I think that 815 may have been loaded with people that were prime canidates for being unstuck without the nosebleed, charlotte is the lone weak link in that regard
maybe jacob's list was people that wouldn't jump in time
Also, I think that the reason Dan could knock on the Swan door and Desmond answered was because he was meant to all along.
Remember that Dan said you can't change the past or the future...time is like a line...you can't change something and make a new line.
So I believe that Dan could knock on the door and give Desmond that message because it was his destiny to do so.
I think the reference to Desmond being special referred to his ability to see the future and the past. what are the odds of someone remembering the 10 seconds of dialogue between Dan and Swan-Desmond 3-6 years later? I think that Des had a flash to that memory and now he can act on it because he is off island.
Good points Brianne.
FWIW, I posted a comparison of the event calculations screen and the vortices here: http://perditascientia.blogspot.com
Thanks for the comparison, Capcom!
I think if you look at the other computer screencap without the "Event Window Determined" on it, you'll see that the vile vortex off the West Coast of Australia is one of Mrs. Hawking's possible event locations.
Not a perfect match, but it's still quite interesting :-)
You're right! Thanks, I'll fix that! :-D
Jumping b/w the vile vortices might explain why the climate of the island hasn't changed too, since the 10 are all on the Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn.
Heheh, very good point. :-)
The Boggle Game shake with missing pieces,and the numbers in the Valenzetti Equation coresponding to the Oceanic 6 (which are needed to set things straight),make that theory interesting to me.
capcom and Brianne, I like your thoughts on the vile vortices. It'd be pretty cool if they did come into play after all this time!
Interesting you mentioned Jacob's list 2Costa. None of our Losties, except perhaps for Locke was on that list. So in The Others view the rest of them, including O6 members were expendable. Why the change now? Or did Ben know something Pickett and Tom didn't? (Yeah I know everyone knows more than Pickett.)
When it was mentioned that Widmore has been searching for the island for 20 years...what happened 20 years ago (1984) to Widmore? Was that when he was on the island and "the incident" happened? Was he banished somehow? And how did he get there in the first place. I like to think he's connected with the Black Rock somehow.
as someone said whats happening now in the time jumps must be destined to happen because those british guys being shot had to have changed something, locke doesn't seem to follow "the rules"
sorry stabbed, i almost think charles may have been with those british guys originally
Morning LoCos. Raise your hands if you've watched the episodes more than twice. (I can't. I haven't even watched twice yet.)
Here's a little quote to start out your Friday from Mythbuster's Adam Savage:
I HATE Jack's beard, which seems to have some kind of super-wussifying effect on him, like a reverse Sampson: Jack GAINS power with proper grooming. Thank goodness.
Let's hope Jack packs plenty of razors in that suitcase of his. With 6 hours, he ought to buy up all the razors in LA.
So if you take a dead Locke back to the Island and on Island it's before the date he died on the mainland, is he alive? What if you take him back to a date where he hasn't left the Island yet? Is that part of the 70 hours calculation? They have to get Locke back on Island after he left and before he died?
I'm glad you guys caught what was on the computer screens.
So, the island moves in time and space. That explains why Widmore doesn't just camp out and wait for it to hit his time. I like that.
So was Desmond pushing the button to help stabilize the island? Because when he didn't, the sky lit up in time jump fashion. . .so I'm starting to think it started drifting a bit when the swan blew up, but got thrown completely out of kilter when Ben turned the wheel?
Like the pendulum in Hawking's lab. . .say there was a stone blocking it in place (the button), and not pushing the button allowed it to sort of start drifting a little, but then Ben turned the wheel and that was like giving the pendulum a big shove.
I like that Lost2010 that turning the wheel with the dike of the Swan station blown up is causing the problem.
A lot of people are starting to speculate that the O6 must come back because they are Constants for the LBs. I'm not sure I buy that though because the Island is jumping to times before the 815ers knew each other. Thoughts?
i cannot raise my hand. although i would watch again if time permitted
dont you think Hawking would have upgraded that computer at this point?
dont remember if it has been established yet, but were the two guys that sayid killed the two guys that jill the butcher said had just checked in to Ben?
I'm finally getting around to reading Doc Jensen -- I'll admit it, I overloaded yesterday and am not in full S5 shape. Anyway, I found this:
Can the castaways interact with their past selves? (Maybe this explains The Whispers: they belong to time traveling castaways observing their past selves, but forbidden by Fate from being seen or interfering.)
That would be a super satisfying explanation of the Whispers and the encountering yourself problem.
I dont think that the O6 are constants for the LB.
i dont think they have to go back. they all have guilt because of they choose to lie.
god help us all, i am starting to think is not the world ending type of thing, it is we all get caught in the biggest cover up of all time. exposing that some people had the ability to heal cancer and travel in time would definately get a lot of people in some major trouble.
only hurley had the courage to not lie..
Richard told Locke the way to convince his people to come back was to die.
But they only person Locke's death convinced was Jack. The rest think Locke was crazy and they still don't want to go back. Jack and Ben are trying to convince them.
Bigdog
I'm qestioning whether the O6 have to go back also. I like your reasons. But I'm thinking Ben needs them to go back so he can get back on the island. Whether for his own selfish reasons or for the good of the island I'm not sure. He told Hurley that Jack and Sayid came to realize the same thing we all want to go back to the island.
BTW What did Ben take out of the vent at the hotel? And what did he do with it? Did he give it to Ms. Hawking? Also what was he doing and where was he going that would take 6 hours?
ben took out the REAL magic box. speaking of that scene, i know jack was going threw withdraw but how do you not even look in the direction of little ben standing on a chair opening up a vent and putting something in his bag. pay attention doc.
i just checked on the ack attack site to see if she had her recap up and this video was there. i dont know if you have already seen it but it has made me laugh so much that an employee of mine just came to ask me was i ok..
it is a must see in my opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuFk1KKdNFw
sorry still dont know how to do the superlink
For what it’s worth here’s how I look at the time jumps and possibility of paradoxes. The LB’s are always in their present time. So if the island jumps to a time after the crash they would be the only one’s in that time. They would occupy that space. Only one person can occupy that space at a time. So it wouldn’t be their past selves it will be them. The island’s time is moving around them as they stay still. When the island moves it is not taking the people of the future with it into the past. Frogurt wasn’t killed in the past. He is in his present. The island is in the past. He was killed in his present.. The island moved to a time in the past when Ethan was alive. So I can see where it could be possible that the island time could jump to when Boone was alive. But if Boone would run across the LBers it would be very confusing to him. So I don’t see the writers having the island jumping to a time when some of the dead Losties are alive and if they do I don’t see them allowing any interaction between the two groups. My opinion. Now that I confused you all even more with my screwy thinking you can go on with your day. Lol :)
Nice Sayid's Girl. But you hit the nail on the head of the thing I'm having such a hard time with. Namely why some people are in the present and some are in the past. I guess the rule could be if you are alive you can only exist in the present, but if you are dead in the present your past self can exist when the Island (and its buildings, appointments, etc.) are in the past. But of course the huge exception we've seen to that so far is Desmond who is both alive and physically present in HIS present and physically present in the Island's past.
Check out this crazy theory from JOpinionated:
CRAZY THEORY OF THE NIGHT
The empty casket that Jack comes upon on the island after the crash belongs to Locke, not Christian Shephard; it was used to transport him back and Jack happens upon it during a time shift.
memphish
Here's what I beleive about Desmond. The Desmond on the island is in the past what ever year it is that Daniel talks to him in, early 2000's. Desmond is special so since he met Daniel in Oxford he kind of remembers Daniel. And I think that's how Daniel is able to talk to him because the have already met. Talking to Desmond in that time on the island gave Desmond a new memory which manifested it's self in a dream to present time Desmond.
Desmond is not in two times at once. Daniel created a new memory and it was instantaneous.
In my opinion on the island the only people in the present are the LBers. (And I think their present is 2004)But not to make it more confusing. The people we see like Ethan or the military people are not in the present. They are only there when the island has jumped to their time. When the island jumps again to a different time then they are no longer on the island. The LBers are always there because they are not moving in time they are staying still as the island moves in time around them.
Hey I like that theory. It's pretty cool.
Daniel twanged the string of Desmond's consciousness through time, and the vibration arrived at Desmond's present incarnation when he happened to be sleeping.
It's like a tin-can phone!
Ok let's see if I can explain my opinion better.
If someone died today and you were able to go back in time. In that past time that person would be alive because the cause of their death hadn't happened yet. But that doesn't mean they are alive in the present just because you are able to interact with them in the past. Ethan had no idea who Lock was because in that time he hadn't met Locke yet. Locke however being in his present and only the island being in the past knows Ethan.
I'm not sure that was any less confusing. lol
very cool theory about the casket. i agree sayid's girl that i think the LBers are in real time.
my confusion comes from if you can die in any of the island time shifts. that would automatically change the future. so frogurt was alive and the camp was there. then you go back and frogurt dies by a flaming arrow along with a couple of other redshirts. if they dont shift again the future has changed.
wow i think i really dont like dan. sawyer should smack him again
Kyle
Yep pretty much.
Frogurt was never in the past. Only the island is in the past.
Frogurt died in his own time. He was just in a different space.
Memphish: I'll probably raise my hand after the weekend!
I just don't get it why Locke had to die to get everything right again. Does anyone have a simple explanation?
We did not get an inkling what Ben took out of the vent and packed is. He is still full of deceit and secrets.
Sayid'sgirl: I agree with you that Ben is just riding the wake with the O6 to get back to the island, and somehow it won't work unless they are all together to make things right.
I, too, am very confused about the LB running into people like Ethan. I don't see why they couldn't run into Boone/Shannon/Charlie, etc? And, Memphish, I do buy that only people who are alive now are immune to running into their past selves. Only the current dead can be seen in other time-skips. The exception of Desmond makes him special. Or the fact that the is currently off the island?
And I know we are seeing these time-skips through the LB's eyes, but do other characters move in time-skips, too? Now the only people left on the island during the turn of the FDW are the only ones experiencing the skips?
Memphish, I saw Jo's theory yesterday and find it very intriguing. Everything we thought about the show is somehow skewed now!
maven
I'm not so sure Locke had to die (if he did) to fix things. I think Richard may have just told him that.
I think the LBers could run into an alive Boone IF the island jumps to a time he was alive on the island. But it would really confuse Boone so I don't think the writers will do that. But time will tell.
so the rules still apply if a flaming arrow hits you in the chest. you die no matter what time or space you are in.
the island in the past, people in the present. my brain has short circuited.
this show is amazing
Good Morning all!
memphish: I really like your idea about the whispers!
sayidsgirl: Love the idea about Daniel creating a new memory for Desmond and it being instantaneous in Desmond's time.
Really, all the thoughts about the whether the island is skipping or the LBs or the Natives and what it means for them all, is making my head hurt! I think we still don't have enough information to understand.
I am wondering if the 6 hours were so that Ben could visit Mrs. Hawking. That would put her station within 3 hours of LA, assuming that Ben is using known methods of travel.
I was looking the other day at the Chang video from ComicCon. In it he's very determined to make sure that the Dharma Initiative is reconstituted. And there is a voice in the background that seems to be Daniel's. I know it was sort of a kick-off for the failed ARG, but I wonder how this might play into the whole scheme. Perhaps while things & people are skipping, Daniel is able to get a message to Chang. And since we didn't remake the DI, are we all doomed? lol
Sorry bigdog I didn't mean to fry your brain.
Yeah basicly time hasn't changed for the LBers. Only the time on the island is changing.
Memphish said: "...like a reverse Sampson...etc." BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Best line for the day! :-D
That's what I was thinking too Lost2010 about the island, that the button kept it stable and in place, and when Des turned the key it started up the instablility and then it went full-bore when Ben turned the wheel. Or, something like that. :-)
I was also leaning that way Bigdog about the two guys that Sayid killed. Has Sayid perhaps quit working for Ben by the time he gets Hurley, and is now fighting against him??? Which is why he told Hurley do the opposite of what Ben says? Maybe Ben just thinks Sayid is still on his side. Oh, I dunno.
I love the idea of the Whispers being people in other dimensions Memphish!
LOL "the real magic box", Bigdog!!! Well, didn't Mes.H say that Ben had to get all the O6 onboard, so I don't know if it's just the way that he's getting back to the island for himself.
I like your ideas Sayidsgirl and Memphish about the people-moving too. AND, that's a great idea about the casket! Wouldn't it be like TPTB to pull one like htat on us. :-o
Also, I wonder if The Incident was actually one drilling millimeter too far? If there might be two energy sources ont he island (the Orchid and the Swan) maybe they drilled OK at the Orchid, but too far at the Swan??
There, all caught up for the morning so far! Great thinking LoCos! Hey, where's FYSB?!
LOL MadAriad. Well, now that we know Daniel has encountered Pierre, it's entirely possible that Dan told him what happened and helped him make the video. Now, as my 9 year old nephew says, "How come they can try to change things if they're not supposed to be able to change things?!" Sigh.
I like that the whispers could be people talking as they're moving through time. The others always seem to pop up after the whispers.
How to explain, though, that the voices of the whispers have belonged to dead folks like Boone and Nikki?
More controlled time skipping perhaps Kyle?
The whisper theory does make some sense as to people from other time-skips warning people in different time-skips that they've previously been to.
I also think that we are going to get more and more info on the time-skips as the season goes by.
And maybe with the Swan station releasing of all that energy made the turning of the FDW more erratic. That's why Mrs. Hawking was frantically trying to calculate how to get back.
Morning all! Clearly I did not have enough caffeine in my system before I started reading comments. Although I'm not sure the caffeine is helping now either ;p
I like your thinking Sayid's Girl about the time travel. Remember in S4 TPTB revealed that there were 2 types of time travel going on...physical and consciousness only. So I think that's where Desmond's specialness separates him from the rest of the pack.
I thought from S1 that the "whispers" might be people in other dimensions, although obviously I never thought about the O6. If that ends up being true, I'm gonna do a happy dance! 'Cause you know I don't get half this stuff- LOL
JoOpinionated's theory makes my mind explode. But I do think that from what TPTB have said that we are going to start seeing some things that we thought were one thing a whole different way now. (does that even make sense?) Anyway, could be.
maven said...I just don't get it why Locke had to die to get everything right again. Does anyone have a simple explanation?
hahaha Simple explanation...that's a good one! ;)
MadAriad said...I am wondering if the 6 hours were so that Ben could visit Mrs. Hawking. That would put her station within 3 hours of LA, assuming that Ben is using known methods of travel.
My first thought was...oooh maybe she's in San Diego. And maven and I can go see the new station when we check out ComicCon! I know sad. But I think that shows how many of my brain cells are working now. Lost has turned them all to mush.
Couldn't the whispers be explained for N & P if you consider the string theory theory? But I guess it just depends on whether the whispers are of the LB's or just anyone who has lived on the island. I'm not sure I am making any sense.
I'm really liking the whipsers idea. Even if it doesn't turn out to be the case, that part of my brain can rest easy on that explanation for a while till we know for sure. :-)
FWIW, I updated the post on my Lost science blog to include a map of where Guam sits in relation to Sayidsgirl's Devils Triangle, and how Flight 316 could get to it. That's all that my brain can really deal with right now, I can't even begin to sift out the details for those two episodes for a non-science post! :-o
Scoutpost: Yeah...I'm going to check out a 3 hours radius from LA as were that station is! LOL They sure made it seem to be a basement of a church or monastery (especially with Mrs. Hawkings' monk getup and lighting the candles). And the only monastery we know of in the Lost world is the one Desmond was in. But, we know Ben can travel by "unknown means", and Desmond is supposed to find Dan's Mum in Oxford. Assuming that his Mum is Mrs. Hawkings...did Ben shwoosh to that monastery in England?
Heheh, I was just going to ask which string theory you are talking about Scoutpost: Quantum Leap's theory of overlapping time, or, the real String Theory. But you know in the real string theory, it is thought that there could be layers of multiple universes piled up next to each other, which could really explain the whispers.
I'll go with the whispers being alive present time, time travelers. But not dead time travelers.
I've been wondering where Ms. Hawkings is too. Like you said the only monastary we know of is in Europe. Unless Ben can time travel between continents he has to be 3 hours outside L.A.
So here's another question about this on Island time travel. Do you think it's the case that it's only our LBs that see this blinding light before the time shifts or do the people existing at other times, Ethan, Jones, Alpert, Desmond, see them too? After all this is the first season we've witnessed this phenomenon despite seeing the Island in the past via Flashbacks. Also it seems to be new to Juliet who has lived there 3 years.
Hey Capcom- yeah I'm thinking the real string theory of multiple universes on top/next to each other. I'm not sure that's exactly what Lost is doing, but there seems like there could be something to it. At least that's my theory and I'm sticking to it! (and it's less risky than purgatory!)
for the 6 hours am i forgetting or didnt ben also go to jill the buthcers.
memphish- good question. I wondered about that too, but forgot about it. I would think that all the island people no matter what time they were in would experience it. But then Juliet should have a memory. Yeah I don't know how to reconcile that one.
Memphish: Well, I don't think we actually saw Alpert or Ethan's reaction to the light beginning the jump, did we? The focus seemed to be on the LB's reactions.
That's a good question memephish. My guess would be no. But I'm not sure. As for Juliet not being familiar with the time jumps. That would mean the island never jumped while she was on it before now.
bigdog
Yeah I think Ben did go to see Jill within that 6 hours.
We've seen three different types of time travel now:
1. Desmond's "lucid flash" after turning the failsafe key.
2. Desmond's consciousness-travel adventure in The Constant.
3. Whatever physical time travel is happening now.
To be honest, I don't understand the "rules" that apply to any of these methods. I'm still trying figure out how getting hit with a cricket bat sent Desmond back to the future!
I just remembered yesterday was Barbarajay's birthday.
Happy Belated Birthday Barbarajay!!!
That would be the "lucid bat" type of time travel Blueheron, heehee.
Happy B-day Barbarajay! *<|:o)
Capcom,
I agree with you that the Incident at the Swan was a breach into a similar (or the same) energy source as the one at the Orchid. I'm guessing that the failsafe discharge at the Swan somehow safely sealed up the breach so that the "pressure" doesn't need to be released every 108 minutes.
Makes you wonder if the island is really a tropical island at all. For one thing, as someone pointed out, islands don't move from place to place in the ocean, but this one apparently can. Maybe the island is actually some kind of structure that was built to contain the mysterious energy source. And over time, tropical vegetation simply started growing on top of it!
Happy birthday Barbarajay!
Stupid training! I haven't been able to get on her at all until just now!
But I'm all caught up, and ready to rant!
Kyle - love the Boggle analogy. Also, I love Boggle. :)
Sayid's Girl, I think your interpretation of the time travel is exactly right. The LBs can meet up with folks like Ethan because they are traveling to times when those people are still alive. Also, they are physically traveling, not inhabiting their past/future bodies. If that were the case, they would appear wherever their body was at that point on the timeline (like Des did in The Constant).
My guess is that the time in which Des goes to find Ms. Hawking is a different time in which she is in LA with Ben. Perhaps because Des tracks her down at Oxford, she travels to LA?
Dan "forgets" his pack so that he has an excuse to check is notebook in private. As he's flipping through it, you can see that he flips PAST the note about Des being his constant, so whatever he checks, it's something else. My guess is that he somehow knows that the rules don't apply to Des, and that's why it's safe to talk to him.
I further think that Dan has lived at least part of this timeline before. That's why he was so upset when he heard about the wreckage of 815, and that's how he has all of these notes. It's also interesting that this is the first indication we have the Dan has studied the Dharma Initiative.
I'm curious as to why Richard and his band of merry men did NOT time travel with everyone else.
Why did Daniel make the whole time travel thing sound so complicated when Sawyer wanted answeres? The record analogy seemed pretty straight forward to me.
And best exchange that I had forgotten about:
Sawyer: Listen, Dr. Wizard.
Miles: I think it's MISTER Wizard.
It's interesting that both Dan and Charlotte seem to have an interest in studying the DI. I hope that doesn't make Charlotte expendable as a character; I don't mind her.
Y'know, blueheron, that's a good point. Something that pricked my ears up. I didn't read all the older comments carefully, so pardon me if someone else made the connection, but...
Since when is Daniel a DI buff? He's a science nerd, sure, but have we ever heard anything from him about studying DHARMA? The only time he ever mentioned it was in talking about the secondary protocol (IIRC).
Kyle - this is definitely the first time he's mentioned it. Before now, the only one we KNEW had a connection was Charlotte.
Is it just me, or did Dan seem a tad less scattered in these episodes as well? He seemed more in control than he has been thus far.
And blueheron, you are kinder than I - I hope Charlotte's head explodes, and sooner than later. She grates on me.
Dan became much less "scattered" after the events in The Constant. It seems like he changed after reading the note about Desmond in his journal. There is a big difference between the Faraday we saw stuttering after parachuting on to the island (and who couldn't remember the identity of three cards) and the Faraday who was confidently leading groups of people to the raft in the freighter.
I'm guessing we'll continue to see the improved Faraday this season, since it looks like we'll eventually have a time-skip in which he will be able to infiltrate the DI during their heyday.
But I wan't to know what happened to him before that messed him up in the first place.
Sorry for this long cut and paste post, but I wanted to share some ideas from the Pop Candy commenters.
Cletus1974 wrote: Ok, so something got me thinking, does their have to be a dead body to get to the island? Call it a sacrfice, but wasn't every vessel carrying at least one dead person, or one person that died on arrival? Christian in the belly of 815, obviously Locke when the 6 return. The Black Rock must have had at least one lost soul. The doctor from the freighter washed up before the army guys moved in. Didn't someone from the helicopter die? Wasn't Juliette drugged(possibly killed) on the submarine? Wasn't someone shot and pushed into the drug plane when Echo stayed behind? Not quite right on the details, but interesting none the less.
j wrote: When Desmond wakes up from seeing Daniel, he tells Penny it wasn't a dream, it was a memory.
In Season 1, Locke "dreams" about seeing Eko's brother's plane crash, and that's how he leads Boone to the wreckage. But this wasn't a dream either, it was a memory because he actually witnessed the plane crash.
E. in Raleigh wrote: So, I'm guessing that with the hatch gone and the donkey wheel open, the island moves every 108 minutes. I really like this one.
redstang42 wrote: Just a thought but wouldn't it be funny if the 4 toed statue was actually some type of tribute to Sawyer. We saw him get stabbed in the toe by some thorn thingy so maybe he eventually loses a toe and in the time skipping he does something couragous in the past and the statue was built in his honor? This has to be the greatest 4-toed theory I've ever seen.
I know this is totally OT, but I demonstrated against the closing of the Motion Picture Home Long Term Care Unit & Hospital (in which my Mother is a resident) and I made the Daily News (that's me holding my classy, home-made sign on the cardboard).
Thanks for posting those comments, Memphish. I still don't get why it's so necessary for Locke to kill himself. And the previous deaths did not result in complete resurrections (we don't know what Christian is, the Ship Doctor is dead dead, etc.)
The theory that the island is jumping every 108 minutes makes sense, but could result in whiplash! LOL
Restang42's 4-toed statue is Sawyer is brilliant! They made such a point of Sawyer stepping on something that made his foot pretty bloody. After all this time on the island, this happens now!
The Sawyer/statue thing IS awesome.
Just a little sorta-bad news for fans of the extended LOST community: J. Wood posted on his Powell's blog that he's been diagnosed with MS. He'll continue to post, but the delay might be greater and quantity smaller. Join me in wishing him the best of possible health in the days and years to come!
Gosh, that is terrible news...thanks for passing it along, Kyle.
i think locke will be alive on the island in the same way christain is"alive" on the island, who was alos brought to the island as a corpse. I think hawkings is semi controlling the jumps on the island, if she was just doing a calculation why not use a modern computer. I bet she is also making sure no one encounters themselves. If you think about it everyone but locke and boone would be at the beach most of the time, It would seem that locke is the exception that makes the rule. I think that Ben is who wants all the 06 to go back but not because of an anomoly but because of their skill sets. They will need kates bank robbing skillz to free hurley, jack for healing, hurley for sixth sense and so on. Locke needs to be there because he will ultimately become jacob, thats why christain was holding his place so to speak. I tink the big lie omst of you are beleiving is that fate is course correcting. Dan obviously thinks things can be changed but care for "the rules" has him doing it on the DL. I think dan is as extrodanary as desmond he is the yin to desmonds yang, it makes sense that someone who hasnt been on the island long would be a god canidate to tweak things, considering a deadly nosebleed might ensue if someone makes a tweak without their constant. If ben or widmore truly thought history was static this whole exercise would be futile. i think Ben always knew he would be banished and he hand picked the 06 to help him get back. Whenever they get back to the island someone is gonna have to fix the breach iin the vault and that might be the o6 ultimte purpose, the freighter shows us that not just anyone can be trusted with access to the island...
if fate didn't want locke to go to the plane i think fate would make him slip or the island would take his legs, but a person was stationed there with a rifle, the fact that richard was ready to patch him up shows this has all played out before, but i think locke knifing those dudes shows he has no regard for the space time continuum. i have a feeling there is a force guarding the timeline like the inverse of richard and ben trying to change the timeline
I was wondering if Flight 815 came to the island carrying a dead body (Christian's) is that is what supposed to happen again (with Locke's)? Does that mean that Locke will become this spectral figure like Christian?
re: Dan and the DI- that is a good observation. I agree that he has a good bit of knowledge himself of the DI and island events because he has lived them before. But how come Dan has such good memory of it all? Is it because of his journal, is he special too, is it because of the science- that he has it figured out?
I think he's less scattered because he's really in his element now. Before the Constant, he was on a mission from Widmore and there was the mission to get Ben...now it's all about the time travel, so it's right up his alley.
I don't think the island moves (or the flashy thing happens) every 108 minutes just because Dan would know they have 108 minutes to get to the hatch or back to the beach, etc. Dan acted like there was no predicting how long it would be between flashes.
The 4 toed Sawyer thing is interesting, but for his sake I hope it's not true...OUCH!
And thanks Kyle for the notice about J.Wood. That is really sad. I was just wondering today if his blog was up yet.
Sad to hear about J. Wood.
Do you think Locke will tell Sawyer and Juliet that their people are safe in the real world as Alpert told him? Will he use the LBs to help him leave the Island or consider them as people who don't need to know?
memphish
Do you watch the previews after the show?
In the preview you hear Locke saying. Don't you want her to come back. And they show Sawyer. Which doesn't really mean alot. Since in one of the promos before the season started they show Sun saying I don't blame you....and thne showed Jack leading you to believe she was talking to Jack. When she was really talking to Kate.
Speaking of next weeks previews. In next week's previews they also show Desmond then Widmore and tthen you hear Widmore say Get out of this mess. I can't imagine Desmond going to Widmore. But I guess we'll see.
No I didn't watch these previews Sayid's Girl because they said they were for the whole season. I didn't stay spoiler-free this long for ABC to shoot their wad after the episodes. :-)
But I'm glad Locke is going to trust the LBs. It's about time. Of course, he's always had an interesting relationship with James. I think he sort of sees himself as a mentor, and what with James doing Locke the solid of killing Cooper, Locke kind of owes him.
So do we think the past in fact can't be changed or that people keep insisting that it can't so that people don't try? Of course, telling people what they can't do should lead to at least some of them trying to do it. After all I would never have thought of fishing off the balcony if there wasn't a sign prohibiting it.
sorry to hear about j.wood.
maven - hope your voices are heard and you are able to keep the facility open.
scoutpost - ouch indeed. but any theory in which sawyer ends up a hero works for me. after all he is the hans solo of the group.
memphish- locke will try his best to be like ben and manipulate them with the things they care about most. which could be the only way he gets sawyer to do anything for him.
very sad about J. Wood...
Capcom, I agree that perhaps the Swan and the Orchid are related somehow. I think that when they built the Orchid, they had to build the Swan to help control the energy from the Orchid (FDW/Dark Matter.)
memphish - I think that Locke will keep a majority of his knowledge to himself. They may all tag along together through the time skips, but I don't think he'll tell them too much because he is convinced that he is the leader over all, even the 815'ers.
I think all of the Freighties have agendas other than Widmore's agenda. I believe they all have some connection to the island. I think Charlotte and Miles could be "Dharma Babies" from before the purge; Dan, I believe, also has a connection, he has studied the DI, but unclear about it otherwise.
I'm not sure about Ms. Hawkings being Dan's mom. I think she was in a monastery in or around LA, not Oxford.
JMHO!
xxoo
is anyone watching the reruns tonight of LOST ? I will be rewatching them since my migraine started that night and I think I probably missed alot of the show. It's finally gone now 3 days after it started Yeha !! So sorry to hear about J. Wood, that's got to be hard to hear. Hope he does well and manages it ok.
Oh boy, reading all your posts after the premier is really SO helpful! As usual, heheh.
Wow Kyle, thanks so much for passing on the news of J.Wood.
Lisa, have you ever tried Imitrex? I've known one person that that kind of Rx didn't work for, but it changes my life...a life which used to be ruled by, and revolved around, migraines. So glad that your'e feeling better!
I like your ideas about each of the Losties' tasks, 2costa!
Scoutpost, maybe the island moves in incremental minutes of 4,8,15,16,23,42??? :-)
So I finally got caught up and I haven't seen my comment/question asked yet and I just wanted to get your opinion on it.
Faraday is jumping through time with the island and everyone else. Now what if now in the present Faraday gets left back in time on the islands past and has to assume the identity of an island dweller to cover up who he is. He uses this opportunity to learn everything he can from the past so that he will have the information in the future/present.
What if Faraday turns out to be Radzinsky?
After being outed by the Dharma initiative Dan takes off into the jungle and finds the Swan hatch and moves in with the people stationed there. He then lives as radzinsky all the way until Kelvin gets there and then finds that his only way back to the present is to kill himself and let time course correct him to the present... crying in front of the TV in season 3 opener.
Just thinking out loud.
memphish
No I don't think they can change the past. But I do think they can manipulate the future. Desmond has already done it by finding his constant in Penny. And I think Daniel is doing it by sending Desmond to his mother.
Ellen
I don't think Ms. Hawkings is Daniel's mother either. I'm thinking she was either in the DI or she's a physicist like Daniel.
Lisa
Glad your migrane is gone. I don't get them but know people who do. They're awful. I forgot they were re airing Lost tonight. Thanks.
Sorry to hear about Mr. Woods I've only read a few of his blogs. But they were very insigtful.
Sayid's Girl I guess that leaves us with which future. Can the LBs on the Island in 2004/5 change the future of the O6+Des et al in 2007/8? I guess they already have with Daniel's encounter with Desmond. Des wouldn't go to Oxford to look for Dan's mom otherwise.
It does leave me very unclear though on how Dan creating a memory for Desmond during an encounter with pre-crash Desmond while Dan exists in 2005 and Desmond and Penny travel in 2007/8 works exactly. I think my biggest disconnect at this point is the connection between post-FDW Island and 3 years later "real" world.
Noooooooooo, Ded! But it's a really good idea, as much as I hate the thought of Dan killing himself. :-( Im' still not sure though how much of what Kelvin said is what actually happened, and by that I mean, it seemed as if he was telling Dez the story in a way that would get himself off the hook for any part he may have had in Rad's going over the bend.
FYI, Here's a bit of J.Wood's talk about his new health challenge in a Lost-related way:
"...However, I began all the meds and therapy three weeks ago, and things are getting under control. I've been inside an MRI machine and forgot to take off a belt with an iron buckle; it was like the failsafe in the Swan station, and the machine yanked my belt and my body up off the table. I get to wear a pirate patch sometimes, like Mikhail. If you recall the first episode of the second season, "Man of Science, Man of Faith," you'll remember when Desmond inoculates himself with an injection gun; I get to to zap myself with a modern version of that each day."
A very inspiring attitude.
memphish
I'm thinking maybe Daniel's mother may be expecting Desmond. That Daniel may have given her information on recognizing him or that he would be coming. Sort of like Desmond telling Penny not to change her phone number. I don't know but I think Daniel has prepared his mother for Desmond's arrival.
I think they chose what it is they want to tweak in the future. Like Desmond needed a constant. That's the only thing that changed. Now Desmond needs to help the LBers if what ever it is he has to do works that will be the only thing that changes.
Desmond and Daniel meet on the island in a past time. Just like Locke and Ethan meet in on the island in a past time. The only difference is, is that Daniel understands time travel and Desmond is unique. Daniel can connect with Desmond's consciousness.
That should be choosewhat ever they want to tweak.... not chose
Dan wont be Radzinsky because Desmond would have remembered him when Dan knocked on the hatch door. I think the swan is indeed related to the orchid, it discharged the electromagnetic energy so the island would stay in place, it probably worked with the tempest to convert electromagnetic energy into the barracks and other hatches electricity. I also think that the swan was somehow related to the cloaking of the island and was important for Ben's plan of the freighter finding the island as well as penny finding Desmond. Desmond's precognition couple with the fact he was on and off island for large stretches of time(which gives him lots of time to change things), and his physical endurance for time shifting is what makes him so special. The breach in the vault coupled with the turning of the donkey wheel is really the only explanation of why sawyer,Locke and company are jumping and sealing the vault again seem s like the only way to stop it.
After watching the episode i was thinking that they tipped their hand that Richard and Ben were really still working together, but now i'm not so sure. Perhaps
Ben was behind the sniper trying to shoot Locke by the heroin plane and then Richard patched him up, much like when Richard showed Locke how to have sawyer kill cooper, to foil Ben's attempt to discredit Locke, much like a chess game with locke being the pawn. SO to me the question still remains who is Richard working with and to what ends.
I'm surprised no one thinks that the microchip in Claire's head isn't related to why some people jump in time and some don't. Proximity doesn't seem to work because Locke was surrounded by others and they didn't jump and whether you were on the island before they built the orchid doesn't really seem to play a part because Cindy and the tailee kids seemed to be time locked with Richard. That left me with the thought that perhaps full indoctrination in room 23 somehow keeps you tethered in time, remember how the audio in that room said "only fools are trapped in time and space"...
I think these new revelations might make us have to rewatch every season with a new perspective...who knows what when and in what time line? Ouch, my head hurts!
Interesting about Rm23, 2costa. :-)
Desmond never met Radzinsky. He only met the splotch of Radzinsky.
And the microchip idea, while novel, has almost no evidence arguing for it in the show.
I like the idea of Daniel ending up to be Radzinski. I don't think Desmond ever met him, right? Because was it Kelvin that showed Desmond the stain that was him? Maybe we should compare the handwriting on the blast door to Daniel's journal!
Maven - I'm so proud of you! It's hard to stand up sometimes but it can really make a difference!
2costa, Desmond never met Radzinsky. He was dead before Desmond showed up. All he knows about him is what Kelvin told him. So if Dan was Radzinsky, Desmond would not recognize him.
Heheh, he met the splotch. X-D
Right, did we ever get told where the implant-of-sickness was that they put into Claire? And maybe it was the kind of implant that you activate and it explodes sort of, and then that's it for its effectiveness? Or, it could have been a time-released kind of thing. Have to look that one up too.
The thought just occurred to me - in the first season (the pilot maybe?) Charlie says "Guys, where are we?" and in the first peisode of this season, someone (I can't remember who) asks "When are we?".
I just thought it was an interesting sort of symmetry.
Dan doesn't look much like a splotch to me :)
I had another thought. when Desmond met Mrs. Hawking, she said that if he didn't go back to the island and press the button "All of US will die". I don't think "US" was all-inclusive as in all people. I think it was a reference to herself and people associated with her (like Ben).
LostIt -- Damon and Carlton have said that Mrs. Hawking's "all of us" means the world, not just people like her. That was a question at the time. Which is not to say Damon and Carlton may have lied, but it is what they said.
All this time travel stuff has made me dizzy. My brain's hard drive is full- which is not good since we've only seen the first episode of this season!
I have a question about the Swan station- I thought Ben and/or Juliet et al. didn't know exactly where the Swan was or what it did, or who was there- at least while Desmond was there. Wasn't that an issue a few seasons ago? Did that resolve- because in the premiere Juliet knew exactly where the Swan was and what was going on there. And I thought the Others didn't know that. Maybe I just don't remember it right.
Right Scoutpost, it looks to me (and I'm always wrong!) that Juliet locating the Swan, and Ben knowing something else in the premier which escapes me right now, blew that theory of them not knowing about it out of the water. Unless, Dan went back in time and put the location of the Swan in Juliet's memory. :-o j/k, sort of.
Speaking of Locke's legs a while ago, that will be SO freaky, as someone has said, if Locke got all limpy when he and Boone were at the plane, because Locke got shot in the skipping-time by Ethan. Then Time would not only be like a skipping record, it would be like a magnetic tape cassette where other tracks can be heard over the track that you're listening to. Like Time events can bleed over into other intersecting Time events. Ow, my brain.
Okay, Memphish, I can officially raise my hand as to rewatching. I think I took more notes on the rewatch:
--Chang seems to realize that exposure to the electromagnetism "freaked out" the worker on the floor. He mentions that the EM needs to be harnessed to manipulate time. Is it harnessed at the Swan station?
--Dan is definitely keeping his identity a secret from Chang.
--Alpert doesn't look so surprised as the FDW is turned, but he does experience the light and turns away.
--Kate is always prepared to run...keeping cash and a gun on hand.
--Ethan doesn't squint when time jump flash happens.
--When they jump into the future or past...why not to the present?
--When Widmore meets up with Sun in the airport room, the wall clock is on 9:22...the date of the crash!
--Miles says it took Widmore like 20 years to find this place the first time. How did he do it then?
--How does Richard know they are all fine off-island, and will Locke tell the other LBers?
--Dan's book seems to have different pen colors as he flips through it. He might have added info to it in different time jumps as he finds things out.
--Hawkings had told Desmond not to marry Penny and get back to the island. But apparently they are married. And why would Desmond want to be on a boat for 3 years? One would think that's the last place he would want to be.
--Ana Lucia tells Hurley that he has "a lot of work to do". That seems to be a common theme from these "dead people. Charlie tells him this and Christian tells Jack this (in the mobisode).
--Between jumps, we might have a time clue...2 hours and 20 minutes have gone by (20 min. banging on Swan Hatch door and Dan staying behind 2 hours).
--How many mini-marts have size XXXL tshirts?
--Aaron wants to go "home" and wants to "push the button".
--Do all the 06 realize that by going back to the island, they are never returning to the real world?
--The flaming arrow attack seems like a very primitive form of warfare...about the time of the Black Rock?
--Are different groups jumping around, too? The Black Rock crew, DI, Hostiles, Rousseau's crew, the group with Jones in it?
--I get the feeling that Sun is seeking revenge on everyone!
--Didn't Jack lose his hospital privileges? How did he just waltz into the hospital to help Sayid?
--The episode starts with Chang saying "God help us all" and ends with Mrs. Hawkings saying "God help us all".
Oh Wow Maven - one of the things on your list really got my attention: Aaron wants to go "home" and wants to "push the button".
Being a mom made me not even think that those are significant metaphors for this show (small kids always want to go home and push the buttons!). I never would have caught that!
Also, I don't think Des and Penny are on the boat STILL as much as AGAIN. I guess I just assumed that they were on some sort of vacation or something, not still living on the boat. I could be wrong, though. They may be hiding from Penny's dad and since they are both sailors it could be an easy way of eluding him.
Maven said
--Ana Lucia tells Hurley that he has "a lot of work to do". That seems to be a common theme from these "dead people. Charlie tells him this and Christian tells Jack this (in the mobisode). - also was told to locke by ghost walt
--Aaron wants to go "home" and wants to "push the button" - what an outstanding catch
--Didn't Jack lose his hospital privileges? How did he just waltz into the hospital to help Sayid? - i said that when i say it live but just let it go. dr jack always finds a way to save a life.
Thanks, memphish. I didn't remember that.
Maven said "--Miles says it took Widmore like 20 years to find this place the first time. How did he do it then?"
For taht matter, how did Miles know how long Widmore was looking for it? Is that something else I ahd forgotten?
"How many mini-marts have size XXXL tshirts?"
Almost none. My husband takes taht size and he has a really hard time shopping for clothes without going to a specialty shop.
"Didn't Jack lose his hospital privileges? How did he just waltz into the hospital to help Sayid?"
Good question! DI was wondering about that as well.
BarbaraJay;
A way too belated Happy Birthday wish for you.I hope it was a great one.
Maven;
Best wishes for your Mom and those folks in Hollywood Hills.
Blueheron13;do you mean that Lost Island is like a Rose Bowl float?
On my way to work this morning,I was listening to Coast To Coast,and Mr. Wizard was on.
Great comments and theories guys.
Like Johnny 5 said in Short Circuit 1,...Need more input.
Hi again - I just remembered something I was going to mention. It would be really funny if Sawyer lost his toe and had a statue built, but I don't think this will happen.
The 4-toed statue looks like it was a foot born that way, not like it had 5 and lost one.
That statue really is one of the mysteries I'm dying to understand.
I bet plenty of mini-marts around here have XXXL t-shirts. :-) But think about it this way. When a dead cop tells you to get a shirt, the first place you're going to stop at will have one.
The Jack hospital thing I wrote off like I write off the Flash in Eggtown. I'm not going to get hung up on it even though it annoys me. I wish we'd seen Jack take himself some drugs while he was there though after Ben flushed his.
That stuff about Aaron is super creepy.
I'm finally going through some of my notes. I'm also thinking about re-watching tonight. After all, there's nothing else on.
I found it interesting they used Willie Nelson again. They used him in early Season 1 when Jack's group moved to the caves and Kate stayed on the beach. He also wrote the song Crazy by Patsy Cline that I don't think has shown up yet, but ought to.
Why when Jack cleaned up did he put on a suit?
Anyone want to speculate on what turned Sayid against Ben?
Thanks everyone re my notes on the rewatch. It is truly amazing what you catch a second time and you look at things so differently when you know more information. Things have different meanings. I guess this means we'll have to rewatch S1-4 after every S5 episode! LOL
sorry my bad about radzinsky. desmond wouldn't know him, but dan wont be radzinsky because radzinsky was in the swan for a while, dan doesn't seem to be jumping in any time frame for very long and he is trying to conceal it from his peers so i really doubt he could just go to the swan for a while like that. Plus, kelvin relieved radzinsky , so reason would say radzinsky was the official dharma swan button pusher
i think its interesting that mrs hawkings wss in the photo of with the priest that saved desmond and convinced him to not get married the first time and she seemed to be in some monastery. We are in agreement that hawkins was based out of l.a. in this last episode right? Was her lair a dhara station off island?
checking in and wow oh wow great comments! well done, Locos!!
I'm ashamed to admit I haven't had the time to rewatch the eps yet. sigh. Monday for sure!
chucklez: Purgatory Theory lives!!
good to see you buddy
maven: good for you gal, stand up for what is right! I'm hoping the actors themselves will come up with a rescue plan.
and it's great to see everyone else here too. It's like school after summer vacation...
maven
I've been wondering about the two hours that Daniel was gone too. (I assumed the twenty minutes was from Sawyer first banged on the door but I could be wrong)
I'm not sure if Daniel's consciousness didn't time travel. In the Constant when Desmond was in Dan's lab his mind jump in time. He passed out. When he came back Daniel said he had been gone 75 minutes but his mind had only been in the future for 5 minutes. The only thing is I don't know why his consciousness would have to time travel when his physical body was already in the past.
Anyway when Sawyer said he'd been gone 2 hours that's what it made me think of. Another thing Sawyer asked Daniel if he knew when the sky was going to flash again. But it had when he was talking to Desmond. Didn't for the people on the beach? So far we've only seen them time jump when they've been in the jungle. Not counting the turning of the FDW.
I don't know things always seem inconsistant on this show doesn't it. :)
MadAriad
I too am extremely interested in the four toed statue. But I think I read somewhere that it was only used to show how old the island is. I hope that's not true. But if it is oh well.
Oh, man, I will be so bummed if there's no explanation for the 4-toed statue. :(
I am hoping to rewatch tonight, and I'll let you guys know if I see anything interesting.
well the two hours could have to do with the distance between sawyer and daniel sort of like how the becon didn't match up with the clock last year. Another way to look at it to was dan didn't shift i time when he said to contact his mother but desmond woke up from his dream on the boat. Its possible that dan talked to desmond longer then we saw, future desmond only had access to that far in his dream
Daniel seemed surprised when Sawyer said he was gone for 2 hours. Maybe in his consciousness is was only a few minutes spent talking with Desmond. The 20 minutes is when Desmond said they'd been banging on his door for 20 minutes.
2costa: I don't know if everyone agrees that the chapel with the Dharma stuff in the basement places Hawkings in the LA area. It's hard to imagine Ben swooshing over to the monastery in England, but we can't rule that out.
Thanks, Amused, I'm very surprised the industry hasn't stepped up.
well the fact that the frozen donkey wheel predates the dharma initiative seems to show that we will get an explanation for the four toed statue some day, probably the same creators, plus damon and calton always mention the four toed statue, so everyone would be disappointed if they didn't explain it.
Let's hope so, 2costa! I did hear someone that they showed the statue only to let us know that there was an older culture on the island before anyone else we know of.
Hey Guys,
Brand New Podcast for your listening pleasure!
Join hosts David A Dein and Steve The Goog Guglich as they unpack the Lost Season 5 Premiere. Along the way they lose a cell phone, eat gourmet food, and offer more wacky theories than should be allowed by the Surgeon General.
If you'd like to be a guest on the podcast, have any theories, discover any clues, or just want to say "Hi!", contact TLCpodcast@gmail.com (mp3 comments are accepted as well), or leave a voice mail or fax at (206) 202-3512.
http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-24061/TS-185292.mp3
Hi All! Great commments.
I think that "Crazy" did play at least once, and I think that it was in one of Kate's FBs. Can't remember if it was when she was in the US or Oz.
On my rewatch, I thought it was interesting how Daniel knows for sure that Dez is special. I mean, he just kept saying it and making sure that Dez knew that he was very, very, SPECIAL! :o)
Great podcast...so glad there's so much to talk about again.
Steve...I agree with you that it's the same guy from the scene with Kate and Sayid killing him in the hotel room. I thought the same thing.
I do think that Hawkings and her crew are descendants of the original inhabitants that were on the island...that created the FDW and of the 4-toed statue. They are entrusted with keeping it safe from the outside world. And I like your idea, David, that our Losties are sort of related to the original inhabitants, too. I bet we're going to find out everyone is related to everyone else before this is over.
I haven't listened to the poscast yet, but I also like the idea that the losties are decendants! It makes them being so daggummed important to the island make some sense.
We need to see Mrs.H take off her shoes!
Correction: it wasn't "Crazy" that played for Kate, it was "Walking After Midnight", my bad. :-)
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Music
i think that dan saying desmond was very very special was almost setting up a caste system, where locke and walt among others are special and desmond is very very special. I also am thinking again that abbadon will turn out to be walt. It would make sense that ben let walt off the island before all this madness ensued, so he could one day come to the island. Knowing what we know about the island walt being a grown man in 2004 doesn't seem too strange anymore
Hi all, what a great couple of episodes and I'm glad they showed them together. In the UK there was no end credit / start credit between them (only a normal advert break) so it all looked like one big episode.
Back to 500+ comments to read after an episode, it's been a while !
My main thought, that I don't think anyone else has expressed, is that if the LB's are not allowed to change the past how can Locke start killing the soldiers ?
It would mean the time travel rules don't apply to him, maybe that is why he is "special" and can lead the others.
By the way would the DI have a military branch ? Even if they were being atacked by the hostiles an armed forces branch of DI doesn't sit very well with me.
Also did Dan cause "The Incident" mentioned in the orinetation films when trying to stop / stabalise the time travel ?
Does the turning of the wheel act like dropping a big stone in a pond and the ripples fanning out equate to the time jumps ?
Glad you enjoyed it Zort. I don't think the military guy s are DI. I think they're pre-DI from the haircuts alone. I also don't think they are the ones directing the flaming arrow attack. I can't remember and need to rewatch, is there a jump between the arrows and the military guys? If there isn't I think the arrow people thought they were attacking the military guys and vice versa and our people just ended up in the wrong time.
I've heard a lot of people on podcasts speculate that the reason Locke can't walk when he and Boone find the Beechcraft is because of Ethan shooting him at the Beechcraft. I'm not buying that though because Locke started losing feeling in his legs before they found the Beechcraft, back when they assembled the trebuchet to try to open the Swan hatch. There were several days his ability to walk was compromised and more importantly he wasn't having feeling in his legs. When he got shot, he felt it and could walk. It was more like where he got hit in the leg by the trebuchet piece mirrored the gunshot, but his reaction to each was different. The gunshot he felt, the giant splinter he didn't.
It also dawns on me that why is Charlotte getting nosebleeds without the corresponding lapses in consciousness as she time jumps? Minkowski, Desmond and Eloise not to mention the DI guy on the ground all seemed to pass out, but Charlotte hasn't done that.
you know what I wondered .... we see Locke get shot near the african plane which is also where he also get leg pain and has trouble walking when he is near the the plane with Boone. So then we see Sawyer get a nail in his foot in the jungle, could this be why he got randomly sick on the beach in season one or two ?
I'm wondering if we've already seen 2 DIs. The first is the one from the opening of Ep 5.1 -- Dr. Chang and the workers building all the stations and making the orientation films. Then they all leave and send a separate group of people, people who watch these films and think Chang is Marvin Candle, Halliwax, Wickmund, et al. and who don't interact with each other. I'm not sure if that's the group that young Ben Linus joins or Kelvin. But it stands out to me that the people making the orientation films know that Candle's real name is Chang, so why the aliases?
Memphish,
With Minkowski, Desmond, and Eloise, we saw the consciousness style of time travel and what happens to you when you don't have a constant. But the LB's are apparently undergoing physical time travel and we don't know enough yet about what sicknesses or symptoms go along with that.
It just conveniently has similar symptoms eh Blue Heron?
Sayid's Girl I need your help. When Sawyer is pounding on the Hatch Daniel says that no one will answer because this never happened before. But then how does Locke knife the guy who wanted to chop off Juliet's hand? Do we have to conclude that is the future? Or is Daniel wrong that if it didn't happen in the past it can't happen when they are traveling into the past? Same for Frogurt's flaming death? Obviously Frogurt didn't die in the past assuming again that flaming arrows days is the past, so how is his death by flaming arrow not changing the past? Or is that a devolved future?
Hey Zort
Great start to the season wasn't it? Great questions. Here's my thoughts on a couple.
My main thought, that I don't think anyone else has expressed, is that if the LB's are not allowed to change the past how can Locke start killing the soldiers ?
memphish said
I've heard a lot of people on podcasts speculate that the reason Locke can't walk when he and Boone find the Beechcraft is because of Ethan shooting him at the Beechcraft. I'm not buying that either. It is iteresting that Charlotte didn't appear to "lose" time. I guess it could affect different people differently.
My guess would be that the soldier died during that encounter and it doesn’t matter who kills him. Or Locke killed him in that time before and is just repeating the act. I don’t know just a guess.
By the way would the DI have a military branch ? Even if they were being atacked by the hostiles an armed forces branch of DI doesn't sit very well with me.
I thought that’s what the Arrow was for. Chang said in the Orientation film he was making that the people were brought there for there specific area of expertise, That the Arrow’s primary purpose was to develop defensive strategies and gather intel on the hostiles. Maybe they got tired of trying to fight them off themselves.
Wow When I was coping and pasting my last post I got it all jumbled up. I hope you can follow it. The last question was zort's not memphish's.
memphish
I partially answered your question with my answer to zort's. But you're right we're not sure if it's past or future. But I'm guessing past. Frogurt didn't change the past because it wasn't his past he died in. It was the islands past. Or the past of the island. I'm not sure how to word it.
If Frogurt went back in time in his past and was killed that would change the past. But Frogurt was never on the island in the past during that time period. So it isn't his past he died in.
I have a tendency to over explain when I'm not sure if I'm being clear. I hope I'm not making my opinion more confusing.
I'm going to reposted zort's questions and my opinions. I read them and couldn't make sense of it.
My main thought, that I don't think anyone else has expressed, is that if the LB's are not allowed to change the past how can Locke start killing the soldiers ?
My guess would be that the soldier died during that encounter and it doesn’t matter who kills him. Or Locke killed him in that time before and is just repeating the act. I don’t know just a guess.
By the way would the DI have a military branch ? Even if they were being atacked by the hostiles an armed forces branch of DI doesn't sit very well with me.
I thought that’s what the Arrow was for. Chang said in the Orientation film he was making that the people were brought there for there specific area of expertise, That the Arrow’s primary purpose was to develop defensive strategies and gather intel on the hostiles. Maybe they got tired of trying to fight them off themselves.
Olivia had a rifle in the class room when the hostiles attacked. So maybe they used the intel from the military group to protect themselves. I don't know. But I think the military group is part of the DI in someway.
memphish
My brother was in the military in the late 60's and early 70's and had a similar hair cut. But that doesn't mean it couldn't be earlier.
memphish re:Dr. Chang: One thing that came to me about the aliases was that MAYBE he was somewhat secretive with the people working in the stations, and this was how he identified where someone was working, by how they greeted him. Like, if they said "Hi Dr. Halliwax", then he would know which station they were from or their clearance level.
Great observation and questions, gang.
I was also wondering when Jones and his crew were when they attack Juliet and Sawyer. Is it just possible that they are in the future? Could they be part of a Widmore controlled island. Remember, Widmore told Ben that is was his island. Jones says it is OUR island. Maybe Widmore "wins" in a future time and has set up this patrol group.
Also, to add to the future idea: Dan does tell Sawyer that they can go backwards and forwards in time.
Sayid's Girl -- here's the problem I have with Frogurt's death not changing the past. It doesn't change his past. He lived until 2004/5. But it changes the past of the person who killed him. A person who wasn't a killer now is. There's 2 sides to the equations. Same with Locke and Ethan. 2005 Locke was shot. 199? Ethan shot him. But in 199? Locke was living his pathetic life in Tustin. So has 2005 Locke always been at the Beechcraft crash? Has Ethan always shot him? Is it just now that Locke's consciousness has caught up with that fact. Did 2004 Ethan know that he had always shot a guy when the Beechcraft crashed? Why didn't he recognize Locke? Or was that memory just made for Ethan the way the memory of Dan was just made for Desmond?
I've got a headache. If Locke/LB are in the past, pre-crash, they are not supposed to be on the island in 199? when Ethan shoot Locke. Isn't that changing something in the time continuum? And Locke killing Jones' crew to save Juliet....They're not supposed to be there (whether it's the past or future). I just don't know how Daniel's rules can hold up...people do things to each other, the environment, etc. to "change" things somehow.
I like the idea of Chang being able to identify people by which name they address him! :-D
If they had their "civvies" on and not their labeled uniforms, that could be a problem for him.
I don't think it changes the past of the person who killed Frogurt. Who ever killed him was killing people indiscriminately. So that person was a killer whether he killed Frogurt or not.
My guess is yes that scene with Ethan and Locke has always happened or at least it was meant to happen when it did.
When Richard went to Locke as a boy he asked him to chose what was "already" his.
As far as Ethan remembering that incident. I'm not sure. I'll have to think about it. Now you're making my brain bleed. lol Give me some time to sort out a conclusion
I like and I'll share it.
This is so much fun. :)
NEW POST!!!
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