Tonight marks the return of LOST, with a three hour lost extravaganza. Get caught up with the "Destiny Calls" recap show, then you'll be treated to TWO new LOST episodes: Because You Left & The Lie. From ABC:
In the first part of the season premiere, entitled "Because You Left," the remaining island survivors start to feel the effects of the aftermath of moving the island, and Jack and Ben begin their quest to reunite the Oceanic 6 in order to return to the island with Locke's body in an attempt to save their former fellow castaways. In the second part, entitled "The Lie," Hurley and Sayid are on the run from the cops after stumbling into trouble at the safehouse; the island survivors come under attack by unknown forces; and an old friend offers some shocking advice to Kate in order to ensure that "the lie" remain a secret.So, we could be in for anything tonight. Ready... set... go! Theories away!
Here is the updated reading list for the 
575 comments:
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You guys are right...this was absolutely awesome! I can't believe how much I love this show! I have to absorb this. Mrs. Hawking and Ben are working together!
Ok in addition to what has already been asked:
Who was the lady in the butcher shop who agreed to watch Locke's body? Have we seen her before, and who are the rest of the people they referenced who seem to be part of team Ben?
I thought about Mrs. Hawking being Dan's mom, too, but she was in L.A. w/Ben and Dan told Desmond to go to Oxford to find her...am I missing something?
"The rules" will definitely come into play, and I guess the season may be about figuring out what those are. I thought it interesting that Chang emphasized them at the beginning. It made me think of the scene where Keamy kills Alex and a shocked Ben says it wasn't supposed to happen that way, that Widmore broke "the rules". I wonder how Widmore has the power to change the rules and/or what happens if you somehow do?
I thought the people who attacked Juliet and Sawyer looked pre-Dharma as well. Similar jumpsuits, but not quite the same. Who in the heck could they be?
If Desmond is unaffected because he is "special"- I guess Locke, Charlie, Aaron, Walt all fall into that category? Who else was labeled "special"? And I agree with memphish- how is getting the O6 back to the island going to change/correct things?
I'm beginning to think Doc Jensen might be right with his "don't bring him back" theory. Man I really thought that Ben might be the man to root for as opposed to Widmore, but now I don't know.
Maven- are you here yet?
Oh- and what is Sun's deal? I can't tell whether to trust her now or not. She seemed to be trying to set Kate up. Again, it all goes back to which side to take Ben's or Widmore's.
It was neat to see Frogurt have such a big part tonite. Even though he was annoying. Poor guy- nothing like taking a flaming arrow to the chest.
Thoughts from my note:
*Okay, that must have been baby Miles with Dr. Candle.
*Definitely think Ben is manipulating everyone to want to get back to the island. He is behind the DNA scam with Kate, knowing she will run. Hurley is the one who throws him off.
*So Locke and Sawyer's group are in different time-skips. Is that because they were in different areas of the island. How do they eventually meet up at the end when he rescues Sawyer and Juliet?
*So Widmore owns Oceanic? He tells Sun "they" do whatever he wants referring to Oceanic people.
*Jorge did a fantastic acting job. He had so many good lines: "I need a cool code name." Eat more comfort food so you won't go around shooting people."
*How does Dan so much? What did he learn under the Orchid station?
*And how is Richard timeless?
*Sawyer line: "We're the Ghosts of Chritmas Future."
*Is Hawking Dan's mother? Is the Monk that she is with in that picture Dan's father?
*Ana Lucia: "Libby says Hi!"
*Why is Hurley the only one who sees dead people? Because of his history with Dave?
*Why does Dan tell Desmond (in the Hazmat suit) that he's special? Is Dan special, too?
*"Expose"....lol
*Why Charlotte can't remember Mother's maiden name? Possible Mrs. Hawking is her mother, too?
*Poor Neil/Frogurt!
*The people that wanted to cut off Juliet's hand: Who are they? That young kid did have an Australian accent. I like everyone's idea that is could be Widmore.
*And who are all those people in the butcher shop? Does Ben have "safe" houses/shops all over the place?
That's all for now! I'm sure everyone is having trouble sleeping!
I think Locke and Sawyer's group were in the same time skips, just in different parts of the island.
Jorge really did do a good job tonite.
So, is it at all possible that just occasionally in Season 1 or 2, when we saw Locke or Sawyer or somebody, that it was the future version? I mean, what happens if they're on the beach and the time jump to the day of the crash? Or is there some failsafe built in to prevent that?
Also, the longer they jump through time. . .the more our left behind survivors look like our original concept of the others. . .ragged tattered. . .barefoot. . .
And finally, why would killing Alex break the time travel rules. . .if those really are the rules we're talking about there?
Ok a few thoughts. The book of rules that Locke didn't chose as a boy. Could that be the rules of time. And the fact that he didn't chose it, will that make a difference in what's happening? He chose the ash and the compass.
Also could the British guy be part of Danielle's research team? The only draw back there is why would the be calling it our island? Of course she may not have been telling the whole truth. I mean why did a research group have guns.
Anyway more later.
oopsie! I forgot what name would show up here... I'm Lavenda :)
Is the island time skipping because the O6 weren't on the ilsand when the donkey wheel was turned? If so did Ben know this when he told the O6 they could leave? Did he know they would have to go back and could that possibly be a way back for him? I'm still not sure if he can go back or if he's just trying to get the O6 to go back to protect the island.
...and everyone is gone!
I agree that Orchid-under-construction-Dan was S4-era Dan, from the look about him. That said, time travel as it seemed to exist in the show was just the consiousness travelling... Dan's physical body way back then couldn't have been that old could it?
Butcher shop lady... I think she was an Other opperative based off-island.
Dan telling Des to find his mother once he got off the island (and good pick! I didn't guess it was Hawking till she was shrouded on screen)... would he have known when Des would go looking for her? It seemed like Dan was trying to affect the future rather than change the past (did he consult his notebook to see if he had noted this experience?)
Charlotte forgetting... is that in any way connected to what happened with Minkowski?
Loved these eps, and agree that the first was better than the second. Nice mix of answers, new questions, OMG moment and laughs (Ghosts of Christmas Future!). How long till next week?
Good morning LoCos! Well my sleep was certainly not the deepest last night.
Well my biggest question going forward are how did people we know died on the Island, Ethan, and suspect died on the Island, the guys who encountered Sawyer and Juliet at the end (the one who talks is Jones BTW) get up and re-encounter our LOSTies? And if they can do it why hasn't Boone, Shannon, etc. rejoined the beach party? I'm also really confused about how there can be 2 Desmonds, a Hatch Desmond and a with Penny Desmond at the same time. Furthermore why can't Sawyer encounter Desmond, but Dan can? Why is that not changing the past Dan?
So Sun blames Kate huh, despite what she said. Did she give the tell she gave in Glass Ballerina when she's lying? I was writing notes and kind of missed it. I figure Ben sent the guys as well.
Ben's new off Island team are Jill, Gabriel and Jeffrey, though I wonder if Gabriel and Jeffrey were the ones waiting on Sayid.
And finally for now -- Aaron should have been in a car seat since he's not yet 4, and then in a booster.
1 more note. Even though that army type said Jones (and I can't figure if he's supposed to be Brit or New Zealand or Aussie) doesn't rule out a Widmore. He could be Jones who changed his name to something more posh, or Widmore could be one of the other 2 guys or Widmore could be a superior to Jones. But the way that Jones "our Island" certainly makes me think of Widmore though I must credit Twitter folks with the notion. I didn't think of it until they mentioned it.
oh, I forgot to say, I think Jones and his cronies are only slightly pre-Di... maybe they were sent to suss out the Island before the DI fully set up shop, or they were checking out other parts of the island while construction began elsewhere
Good call on Aaron in a car seat!
Gabriel and Jeffery were Kates visitors?
I think the Des that Dan spoke to at the hatch is separate from the Des who woke up with Penny, but maybe he is special from his "constant" experience and it was as a result of that, the linked consciousness, that he "remembered"
The islands dead people haven't got up, our Losties have merely gone back to before they were dead. But why are some people (Losites, Freighteries and Juliet) travelling and others not? Those born on the island stay in it's time?
Charlotte's memory problem reminds me of when Charlotte was playing the memory game with the cards with Dan. Maybe time travel causes memeory loss.
Jones seemed to have a slightly British accent to me. Certainly not Aussie (although, we've got an Aussie playing Widmore, so go figure!)
Both Candle and Hawking say "God help us all"
oooh yes, the memory card game, I'd forgotten all about that! I wonder if that was really a test for Dan or a test for Charlotte
I don't have time to catch up on the great posts, I started too but would be here all day.
I think that the people that wanted to cut off Juliet's hand was the Research team that was there with Russo. Which could have been a Widmore group, I don't think it was ever explained who they were really working for.
Also, I am having a senior moment, can someone explain Frogurt? I know I know him.
All in all a fantastic season premier!
oh der... Dan in the Orchid-under-construction wasn't a Dan from S4 with his consciousness skipping through time, he's S4 Dan with the island skipping through time. He can't affect the past, so what is he doing there?
Thrasher -- Frogurt is an 815 survivor first referenced in SOS when Bernard wants to build the sign. His real name is Neil and he owned a Frozen Yogurt business. He also appeared in the Mobisodes between Seasons 3 and 4 as a suitor for Libby should Hurley fail.
I also think the entire thing has been planned, by Ben. Remember he always has a plan! He needed to move the island so that Widmore could not find it again.
I should have taken today off to sit here and do this all day!
But off to work!
As for Dan, I'm leaning more towards an Oxford era Dan pulling an Eloise to learn about the DI and fill up his little journal.
Oh yes, that is right now I remeber Frogurt! I knew I knew him, just couldn't place it. Thank you Memphish!
good morning.
3 hours of good tv. i was very impressed by the clip show.
fav lines. rich to locke - what goes around comes around - referring to locke saying ethan shot me.
when hurley throws the hot pocket actually laughed out loud.
so glad sawyer found a shirt but his teeth seemed awfully white.
I have been a long time rose supporter but she totally annoyed me every scene she was in.
Ana Lucia looked good. Hurley did the opposite of what she said.
Maven said *Okay, that must have been baby Miles with Dr. Candle. I like it.
Do you think Sayid is still working with Ben? I get the impression that he isnt.
Wow. What a great way to start S5. I totally called it when Ms Hawking appeared, I also think she is Dan's mom. And that Ana would be the cop...my husband called that one first.
What a mess we've got on our hands...and again just a little communication would go a loooong way to avoiding many misunderstandings. Why didn't Ben offer for Hurley to call Sayid and Jack to verify what he'd said?
Baby Miles? i guess...my first guess was that it was Alex and Ben in the early days, but then i realized it was too early for that.
Marvin Candle!!! At least now we know what the Arrow station was for.
Great to see Chucklez running around again ;) and all the other familiar faces.
So do we think it was Arrow DI members firing the flaming arrows?
Some asked why 70 hours. I can't remember who, sorry.
The 70 hours is when the event window will happen so they can get back to the island.
I'm not going to think too hard about the mechanics of the time travel. Daniel pretty much summed that up when he patted Sawyer and Juliet on their heads (figuratively) and said, "This would be very hard for me to explain to another physicist. . . ." That's okay with me. I'm just going to focus on how time traveling about affects the characters. It's all my brain can handle.
I like how they all just sort of incorporate it into their understanding of their situation. If someone tells you that you're time traveling and proves it, it really doesn't matter how or why. . .you just have to figure out how to survive while doing it.
So the people on the island are still trying to survive. . .it's just that their odds got even worse.
I loved all the Ben scenes with Jack. Especially the interchange about the pills. . .that was hilarious.
Loved that Kate still thought of Jack as soon as she was in trouble, but also liked that she didn't call.
Loved that Hugo's parents believed in him despite everything that's happened - because at least one person on this show ought to have good parents.
Loved Sawyer's reaction to "cut off her other hand". . .
Loved that Daniel explains time travel and such in terms that Sawyer and Desmond can understand. . .because I think I can hang with Sawyer and Des intellectually . . .most of the time anyway.
Loved the Heart shirt. . .
Loved the little throwaway, "You Will" line of Richard's where he explained how he knew about the bullet.
And was heartstoppingly relieved when Locke showed up in time to stop the hand removal. . .my stomach wasn't up for that!!
so ms hawking ensured that desmond went to the island by not getting the ring for penny. was he also not suppose to leave.
if you cant change the future why would dan stay behind and talk to desmond after not letting sawyer do it.
i dont like the way jules is eyeing sawyer. the ladies of lost love the bad boy but always want to be with the doctor/hero.
Do you want to be with the doctor if you already are the doctor?
Here's the big one I don't get -- Locke moves back in time to the day the Beechcraft crashes and encounters Ethan because on that day Ethan saw the plane crash and went back to investigate.
So does that mean Desmond in the Hatch is definitively pre-crash because back on the beach no dead 815ers were there nor the beach camp?
So what's to stop the Island to jumping to Day 3 after the crash and Sawyer bumping into Sawyer?
I think I'm just going to accept Dan's explanation of time-skipping and go with the flow!
But Dan does seem to be one of the "special" ones, too. How did he amass that little book on everything DI? Did his mother help him...Mrs. Hawking?
Also, I agree with why we haven't seen some of our dead Losties show up in a time-skip. Ethan did. Where's Charlie, Boone, Shannon? Maybe that's to come! How did Locke come to meet up in the correct time-skip to save Juliet's hand?
Where the flaming arrows from a time when the Black Rock crew was there?...that form of ammunition would jive with that time period.
So Ben has 70 hours to get to the event window to get back to the island?
Do you want to be with the doctor if you already are the doctor?
only if i need an appendectomy on a time traveling island
I think Dan said the island and the people are both moving. So I don't think the "rules" will allow it.
Locke had asked Richard where he did he go when the island moved and Richard said he did'nt go anywhere that Locke did.
I think Dan was able to talk to Des because Des is his constant and the "rules" don't apply to Des he's unique for some reason.
Bigdog: Dan looked in his notebook first, and then knocked on the hatch door, didn't he? My guess is that he wrote down that he had spoken to Des already, so he knew it was something that had already happened. That's why he spoke to Desmond...because he already had spoken to Desmond, and now had to make that come true.
Argh...temporal mechanics gives me a headache...
;-)
i wonder do the contents of dan's book change based upon each time he has an encounter with a new time
I figured Dan was reading that Desmond Hume is my constant page again and had the encounter to prevent Charlotte-like nosebleed.
Some are speculating that one of the British-esque hand-cutting soldiers is Charlotte's dad and that could be the constant that will save her. I hope not.
I agree with your explanations of how Dan could talk to Desmond. I think it's because he had already done it in the past, so he could do it again, and that Des is "special".
What happens to the Others when the island skips around in time? Where are they? Are they like Richard and don't age? Do you think going to the Temple protects them in any way from all the time traveling?
I like the idea that the "hostiles" that attacked Juliet and Sawyer were Rousseau's group, but was Rousseau the only French person on the expedition? I would've thought there would be French accents rather than British.
memphish- I was thinking the same thing about meeting up with day 3 Sawyer bumping into day 109 Sawyer. What's to prevent that to happen. I actually thought that John was about to bump into himself in the jungle last night (but it just turned out to be Richard).
LOL memphish- no love lost for Charlotte?! Me either.
Now does Dan have to go back to the Frozen Donkey Wheel and turn it off to stop the time-skipping?
I do wonder if they won't pop up in the middle of the crash scene at some point. . .they must eventually find some out of the way place to stay where they won't keep ending up under fire every time they blink.
Or I guess that should say- me NEITHER.
Also, I don't understand...LOL what's new...if Dan and Ben obviously have skipped around time enough to know what has happened in the past and what should happen in the future. And Richard went to Locke as a boy and Locke was supposed to "know" what items he was supposed to pick, then how many times has "time" been played out? Are they in one big loop?
Also, what will happen in 70 hours if all the O6 don't get back? Mrs. Hawking said "God help us"- what in the world kind of role do the O6 play on the island and/or in the world that makes it that necessary for them to be back on the island in 70 hours?
Why does Locke have to die to save the island (is there a reason)? Or does Richard say that because he just knows that that is his destiny?
so...why does Jack have to be the one to come back and save everyone?
hmmm...? or was it that the rest of them left because Jack did, and that's why everything is being blamed on Jack leaving?
Hi all! Rough night! And great comments everyone.
I think that the separated Losties are in the same timeskips too, because it seems to be day or night for each of them at the same time when it jumps. BTW, when I read a spoiler about how time was going to jumparound I got very nervous about confusion (not that there isn't any!), but the way ti was explained it's not so bad.
I was thinking that too Lost2010, what if the Losties are somtimes the ones considered the Hostiles, at some point.
I think that Cheng might have been talking about the basic rules or laws of physics, but I'll have to rewatch and check for that again.
Good Qs Carol-Lavenda. Dan did check his notebook at a pint and TPTB didn't show us what he was looking at. I assumed the constant thing again maybe just to refresh his memory, but it could have been something else too. And goo d call on cave-Dan being just a Dan who's getting involved with the DI during the timeskips.
I don't think that there are two Desmonds just differnet time-Desmonds. Like there seems to be two Lockes, a dead one in the "present" and the one still on the island in the timewarps.
That's what I was thinking about Char too Sayidsgirl, with the memory loss thing. I was waiting for her to make the connection and she finally did.
Oops! You're right Bigdog, Hurley did do the opposite of what Ana told him! I guess that he was so concerned in following Sayid's rule of doing the opposite of what Ben said that he forgot.
I think that a lot of our "why didn't/doesn't" questions could be answered in the weeks to come, like why don't they meet whomever in the timeskips.
Yowza!
There's a little bit in this article from Damon and Carlton about how to view this time travel stuff and Desmond and Daniel's encounter in particular. There's a little bit of vague looking-forward we'll see this in later parts of the article. You are warned.
Capcom -- don't there have to be 2 Desmonds because to the Sawyer group's conciousnesses it's day 100+ and Desmond is off the Island, but if they had hung around they would have seen him in the Hatch.
Maybe a little of both. I think a lot of it is pinned on Jack because he was the leader. But they did say that Jack one side of a coin (Locke being the other)- so maybe there is significance there.
I wonder what kind of place Hawking and Ben are in at the end. She is using Dharma-esque computer equipment. But it also seems to be a chapel. I wonder if this is an off-island DI station doubling as a monastery...the one Desmond was at?
Wait, it was 3 years later when Desmond had that memory dream though wasn't it? The sound you just heard was my brain exploding. I think I'll just go look at shirtless Sawyer and clean-shaven Jack and future-haired Sayid and try to forget everything else.
Maven - Ben's in Los Angeles though right?
Well, what I think of the multiple peeps Memphish, is like the tree falling in the woods thing. If you don't move in time, there's only "one" person, but if you move in time then there's the present person and the timeskip person that you see. But really only one in each time period....so far. But that's what I've been wondering about Locke, will present time dead Locke ever come into the presense of island-time alive Locke since they are bringing meat-locker Locker back? That's when there would actually be two people, if the different time people inhabit the same point in time. I guess???? :-B
But don't we have to assume there are at least 2 time periods occuring simultaneously Capcom? The one on and the one off Island? Which means if the time periods ever re-converge Kablamo!?!
Concerning why the Losties have an effect on keeping the island stable, etc., Roog had a good idea a few threads back: something about how maybe the Losites are special people who are the only ones who can change or fix time without there needing to be a course correction, or something like that. This would also fit into Wayne's theory of how the Losties might somehow turn out to be the variables in the Valenzetti Equation.
Well, if we go to the Kerr theory Memphish, there are separate shells of time that don't touch or cross. Unless of course, the person would travel from one shell to the other where his past or future self was already, then Kablamo would happen! :-)
I think that Dan's skipping record example fits in nicely with the Kerr shells too, BTW. At least in my head.
Yeah, Memphish...I know they're in LA so it couldn't be Desmond's monastery. But maybe the LA branch?
Well, Candle always seemed so upset about the 2 #15 Bunnies meeting up with each other and touching....so maybe we will eventually see people meeting up with their time-skipping selves?
And BTW, TPTB gave us a very nice example of the skipping record in Cheng's apartment, come to think of it! What a clever setup! :-D
Maybe we need to look for more of these types of visual clues?
capcom said...I think that a lot of our "why didn't/doesn't" questions could be answered in the weeks to come
Yes, but I want them NOW! LOL
You got that right Scoutpost! I guess we need to remember that patience is bitter, or some such crap like that that some dope said somewhere. :o)
Good catch on that skipping record, Capcom!
Tx Maven, that's why it's so great to be able to chat with you all after an ep, because in addition to getting help from everyone, when you're chatting various images and ideas pop into your head too. :-D
Good Morning LoCos!
I'm totally blown away!
I loved the clip show hosted by Darlton - it was like an extended DSA!
Is anyone else just DYING to read Daniel's journal? He knows so much and it seems he's not divulging much.
As for the O6: So Jack is with Ben, Sayid was with Ben but not anymore, Hurley is with Sayid, Sun wants to kill Ben, and Kate is confused as to who to trust but seems to be with Sun (maybe). And Locke is in a meat locker.
Interesting to see how this all plays out.
Ok - Shock moment of the night: Mrs. Hawking!!! What was that all about? There was so much religious stuff around her - what is the deal?!
I'm figuring that she knows how to calculate when the Island will skip into the present time and they can all go back.
Lots of new questions!
email
Just a crazy thought: Maybe the island doesn't really heal people, but puts them in another time-skip to when they were whole. Maybe when Locke and Rose crashed on the island, they really were in their past and Locke hadn't gotten paralyzed yet and Rose hadn't gotten cancer yet?
Why is Desmond "special" - "the rules don't apply" to him.....
And I totally think that Miles is Halliwax/Candle/Cheng's baby that keeps crying.
Maven - I don't think that's happening just because the island just started skipping, and people seem to bring their wounds with them when they skip.
Yes MadAriad, I was yelling "Show it!" when Dan was leafing thru his notebook! Someone will send DarkUFO some screencaps of his shuffling for sure, but I don't think the camera even glanced at the page that he was studying. :-(
I was very intrigued by Mrs.H and where she was as well. Also, that giant pendulum that was swinging away is very curious! That does seem to be what she is calculating, but why? How?! Great stuff.
Good point about the healing Maven! Altho Locke's wound did travel with him, Richard said that the island would take care of it, so maybe eventually??????
MadAriad- memphish posted an article where DL and CC state that what happened at the end of S2 to Desomond (turning the failsafe key) was a really significant event that causes Desmond to be like no one else on the show. So I think that's why the rules don't apply to him
Ok how long before Doc Jensen enlightens us? Isn't it usually tomorrow? I don't know if I can wait that long. Anyone have any links to some more good analysis on last night?
if the guys who were going to cut off jules hand were with danielle wouldnt we have seen her?
Ok - that makes sense about Desmond. I guess we don't really know what happened to him when he did the key, except that he survived and was naked and could see the future.
Did anyone notice that the *red-shirt* guy was the first hit with the fire arrow? (A la Star Trek) I was thinking maybe shouldn't have worn a RED shirt!
Well she was pregnant Bigdog, so maybe she was back at the camp. ???
Oh yeah, Lost2010, I'm also glad that the handchopping didn't happen, I thought for a sec that Lost was going to break into a Fringe episode! :-o
BigDog - I wondered if that was Danielle's team, but I decided it must be someone else. They weren't speaking in French, and seemed very militarized. I would expect Danielle's team to look more like scientists, and speak French. (Although I suppose that her team may have been international, not just French)
Or I guess that I should say IF Danielle was still pregnant, she might not be out trekking around.
Man, a lot to sort through (and read through), so I'll just throw in my thoughts:
1) I like all the discussion of Ben accusing Widmore of breaking the rules. If this was Ben's second time through the freighter attack, he would have been confident his daughter would live because she lived the first time. Keamy (and by extension Widmore) broke the rules by killing her that second time.
Generally, I like the idea that the reason Ben seems so all-knowing and in control is because this is his second time through all the events on the island. That would explain why certain Losties were on "the list" and others weren't: he knows who's important to future events and who isn't.
2) Dig the idea that Miles is Chang's son.
3) Until I hear otherwise, I'll stick with Mrs. Hawking being Dan's mother (and perhaps the monk being his father?).
4) The fact that Alpert and the Others didn't skip with the Losties suggests that some people are unaffected by the time skip phenomenon. I wonder how you get that ability. Time spent on the island? Is it something you can "learn"? Is it something you can harness to, say, appear or disappear suddenly and mysteriously?
One more thing: on the soldiers who captured Sawyer and Juliet, might they be the "indigenous hostiles" Cheng referred to in the orientation film he was recording? A distant possibility is that they are Black Rockers, though their dress suggests not. There's definitely some military connection we have yet to make. Anyone else remember the knife Goodwin had way back when -- the one Ana Lucia said looked like it was Army-issued (or something along those lines...my memory is a tad fuzzy). Weren't there theories/rumors once upon a time about POWs and test subjects?
Erich- that reminds me- and how did Cindy the Oceanic flight attendant fit into that picture? Is she a new Other or is she part of the big picture/Ben's plan, too? She's a mystery.
It's either inconsistency or perhaps the island has different effects on certain people.
Perhaps when the hatch was blown, it effected only those that were "out and about".
anyone else that was from the island BEFORE the hatch blew, remain constant.
Only those that were "out" can shift WITH it.
Hi Erich! 2costa has also long believed that Ben knows so much because he's seen it all before, so you guys will get the kudos if that turns out to be true. :-D
I wonder exactly how many different groups of past islanders we actually saw last night? Or might see in the weeks to come?
Goodwin's knife was a WWII era I army knife I believe.
capcom said...Oh yeah, Lost2010, I'm also glad that the handchopping didn't happen, I thought for a sec that Lost was going to break into a Fringe episode!
I swear I will drop this show in a second if any spiky giant slugs show up!
Good point Anon, that might be why Dan was looking for a built structure -- any structure -- on the island.
LOL Scoutpost!
thanks capcom
Don't want to spoil you all though.
So...........
PURGATORY!!!!
LOL you guys - I love Fringe but it really would never work to have the two show cross over! When I started watching Fringe I thought maybe Abaddon's character would somehow have ties to the Island. I kind hope he doesn't now....
MadAriad:
some tried to "force-feed" the same idea with "Heroes".
Eh....
Thanks for posting that article Memphish, I jsut read it and it's good stuff.
There's some interesting screencaps over at DarkUFO - like a shot of Mrs. Hawkings' place with DHARMA BINDERS on a shelf.
Just so you all know:
I LOVE LOST!
OMG I just had a thought.
Mrs. Hawkings' place is an off-island Dharma station (thus the retro monitor etc.
Well of course it is.
Ben (present day) was there with her in L.A.
But not a station per se.
Remote monitoring location.
Perhaps Mrs. Hawkings is in the Beacon or Lighthouse station. Maybe it's the Lighthouse symbol because she is tracking when the next open portal to the island will happen.
Did anyone else think it was a church??
ugh. why don't i record the shows??
haha
Yes Anon, some people mentioned that it might be a church somewhere.
Neat idea about it being the Lighthouse Scoutpost!
Yeah - I'm a little slow sometimes....
I think it's an official off-island Dharma station hidden under a church. I think you're right, scoutpost, that it's the lightpost or whatever it is station, something so the Dharma people could keep track of the island. It's weird that it seems to be in a church, though.
if they keep "skipping around in time", they MIGHT bump into Alvar Hanso!
haha
or even JOOP!!!! OH....MY........GAWD!!!
j/k
It looked like a church with a hidden Dharma station in the basement.
You don't record the shows?!!! HOw do you live with yourself? j/k
Ok let's see if I can catch up on these comments here.
capcom
I immediately thought of you when and the Kerr theory when Dan was explaining the time travel.
maven
Was it you that said the people who captured Sawyer and Juliet may have come from the Arrow? That's a possiblity since it's primary purpose is to develope defensive strategies and collect Intel on the hostiles and they brought in people with a background in this.
memphish
I don't think the island Losties consciousnesses are time traveling they are actually time traveling on the island only. I think the reason Dan stayed behind to knock on the door was because if anyone else was there Des wouldn't have answered. Either it happened before which I don't think it did because Dan didn't seem sure it would work. Or because Des is Dan's constant and the rules don't apply to him they have a special connection. Desmond did seem to recognize Dan when he opened the door.
I don't think there can be any paradoxes because if it didn't happen that way before it's not going to happen at all.
Des seems to be the only exception.
i'm thinking under a church, at the university.
Desmond will soon bump into her and Ben there.
Wow. I may or may not get through the live-comments, but here are some of my thoughts, presented in non-chronological order:
-LOVE Hurley throwing the Hot Pocket at Ben
-Charlotte's line about not getting nose-bleeds since she was little is very important. Something tells me that at that point, they had been zapped to a point in the past when she was on the Island in little girl-form too. (also makes sense with the observation from AV Club that Locke was shot by Ethan in the same place where his legs would eventually give out in our "normal" Island timeline)
-The Hurley arrest does seem a little forced, but I don't think Ana-Lucia would have warned against being caught by the cops if she didn't think it meant something more than just getting arrested. I think it's more than just an artificial roadblock in front of Ben.
-Agree with Doc and others in thinking that Ethan's disbelief in the possibility of Ben assigning leadership to Locke could just as easily be borne of Ben not being the leader at that time as anything else.
-What did Sawyer step on? Was it a Swan dart?
-I hope this whole record-skipping development means that a story with Rousseau and her science team won't be too much of a stretch.
I liked "Because You Left" more than "The Lie," but I'm still jazzed as hell for next week.
Didn't Michael already bump into Hanso in his hospital room? Heheh. :o)
good call on the Arrow station people. I'll have to watch that part again, but that's right re: what their purpose was- it could be them. Yikes.
Good points Kyle! About the dart, after Sawyer pulled on it and said, "Oh crap" or something like that, I thought that he was remembering the darts from before and was going to konk out from the drug on it. :o) Good thought about Char's past nosebleeds too.
Yes! Let's see young Rousseau!
Just popping in here for a quick theory.
Kyle said: Charlotte's line about not getting nose-bleeds since she was little is very important. Something tells me that at that point, they had been zapped to a point in the past when she was on the Island in little girl-form too.
There has been predictions that Annie will be brought back into the storyline in a big way. Since Charlotte has said, or hinted to the fact that she's been on the island before, and in the preview for next week there seems to be a woman giving birth...what if Charlotte is Annie's daughter?
Oh I forgot about Hurley. I was afraid he wasn't going to take Sayid's warning that if he should run into Ben to do the opposite of what he said.
But now I'm worried about what's going to happen to him now that's he's been arrested.
Yeah- what was that that Sawyer stepped on? I think that's going to come back and bite him...if for no other reason than infection will set in. :O
Poor Sawyer, he needs to get some shoes.
And a tentanus shot!
rubygreeneyes
That's not Charlotte's mom giving birth.
Yeah, the hot pocket scene was CLASSIC!! I liteally laughed aloud. That was great.
LOL capcom- they need to find the Staff station STAT!
i loved seeing Anna Lucia, too!
and all "T-2000-esque". Suh-weet!!!
Oh, and "Libby says 'hi'". Nice.
I thought maybe Charlotte's nosebleeds meant she had time traveled before as a child.
I don't think those military guys were Dharma. I don't know why, just a hunch. They seemed like maybe from longer ago than Dharma to me.
Isn't it Penny giving birth in the previews? That's what I thought anyway.
And the Church/Dharma station would probably be somewhere in or near LA, right, since that's where everyone is? Or else Ben can travel thorough space by abnormal means.
So I watched last night, and read through all 301 comments this morning, and I'm just glad to see that the same stuff I was thinking is the same stuff y'all are talking about. At least I'm not way off base. Also, it's nice to see so many familiar names from the days of TLE. It feels like it's been so long since we were consumed with that. Oh, Rachel Blake, how I miss your undercover videography...
To correct someone from earlier, young Locke didn't pick the compass from Alpert (someone said he picked the white ash and the compass); he picked the knife (at which point Alpert got a VERY disappointed look on his face).
So far, Charlotte, Miles and Dan have all had previous encounters/storylines with the island (previous to getting on the freighter, I mean). What about Naomi or Frank (the pilot). It'll be interesting to see if they show up in the island's past.
It was kind of refreshing to see something not go according to Ben's plan at the end (a la Hurley). It seems interesting then the he's going to Hawking for the next step. Sure, Ben always has a small picture plan, but it seems like the big picture journeys that he's on are orchestrated by someone else (Jacob, Hawking, maybe Alpert...)
That's all for now.
yeah madariad. that's what i said to you up further in the thread.
MadAriad
Yes that's Penny giving birth.
I assume the new Dharma station is in the LA area.
I thought that the nosebleeds meant that Charlotte's consciousness had become unstuck ala Desmond and Minkowski. They all got nosebleeds when their consciousness were traveling. So I assume she has to find a constant before she falls to the same fate as Minkowski.
But then, I thought TPTB alluded to that quality being unique to Desmond...if not, then what quality about Des were they referring to? (brain freeze)
Interesting thought about Frank and Naomi, Wallace.
Young Wallace
To correct someone from earlier, young Locke didn't pick the compass from Alpert (someone said he picked the white ash and the compass); he picked the knife (at which point Alpert got a VERY disappointed look on his face).
That was me. I had assumed when young Locke picked up something and set it in front of him on the table he was chosing it.I thought the 3rd thing he chose was the knife. I guess I was wrong in that assumption.
MadAriad
I don't think the people from the Arrow are scientist but military hired by the DI to control the hostiles.
Most of the people were brought there under false pretenses.
scoutpost
I agree with what you said.
I thought that the nosebleeds meant that Charlotte's consciousness had become unstuck ala Desmond and Minkowski. They all got nosebleeds when their consciousness were traveling. So I assume she has to find a constant before she falls to the same fate as Minkowski.
I thought that maybe also she had time traveled as a child too.
I assumed that too Sayidsgirl. I never looked it up to make sure.
Re: Char time traveling as a child, I guess it's pretty possible that the island has jumped in the past of anyone who's been there before, right?
And let's see here......
Locke has to DIE to warn the others. And several of the Oceanic 6 are "seeing ghosts" now. Not just Hurley. Hmmm....
What do they call it when spirits cannot pass on to Heaven or Hell for whatever reason?? What's that word??.......it's on the tip of my tongue......hmmmm.........
anyone??
Beuller, Beuller??
Locke chose the vial of sand and the compass. He passed on the Book of Laws and instead took the dagger.
Here's a new question. Sawyer et al. (we really need a creative name for this group, the LBs- left behinds?) experience a ton of crap in about 24 hours after the FDW is turned. At least 3 of them were killed by flying arrows and Sawyer should get tetanus, but then again he's healed over and over on the show. But anyhoo -- how are they going to survive 3 years of this crap before the O6 return?
As for Ben repeating history. If that's the case then why did he tell Kate and Sayid they could leave before he went to the Orchid? And why is it taking 3 years for them to find this window of return? After all if the world can survive the Island skipping through time for 3 years, what's changed to get Mrs. Hawking involved now?
Kyle
That's what I thought too.
So do you think Locke not chosing the book of laws has anything to do with what's going on now?
And another thing -- the DI finds the FDW in a place that's not accessible. So how did it get there in the first place and who sealed it up?
memphish: "the remainees"???
Maybe Charlotte did time travel as a child and her mom was her constant- so that not remembering her mom's maiden name would be a bad sign.
Sayid'sgirl: Wouldn't be surprised. Everyone's talking about these RULES. We've never been told what Laws that book details.
memphish: How about the "Lefties"?
memphish: or maybe "the fishbiscuits"??
maybe the "fishbiscuits" will go SO FAR back that the FDW is not there (before it was built), so THEY have to end up building it!!!
I'm not sure they will have to go through it for 3 years. I think when the O6 go back it will be 2004 on the island.
I'm not sure Ben has been repeating time. But I think he told Kate they could go because he knew he had to turn the wheel and the O6 would be his ticket back to the island because he knew they would have to go back.
Also it took Penny 3 years to find Desmond. But I don' know why.
Oh snap, good thought Scoutpost!
I like LBs Memphish. :-D
As for the three years, that's a very good question. The time span may just hinge on 'when' Ben landed after turning the FDW (but then there's the visit from Locke to figure in, doh). It will be very interesting to see those 3 years on the island explained.
ugh blogger keeps eating my posts!
Good question about the FDW. Obviously whoever sealed it up knew the power of the island and how to harness it (maybe the 4 toed people). And I'm guessing no one had been down to the FDW since it had been sealed, since Ben had to put a boat load of crap in the Orchid elevator to blow a hole in the rock to get to the FDW. So again...who is Jacob and how did he know that he needed give the directive to move the island. Has Jacob been around that long?
I'm thinking Ben told Kate and Sayid that they could go the same way he told Jack and Juliet that they could leave on the submarine. I think he knew it would all play out somehow in his favor.
Maybe the FDW was "sealed" in by a volcanic eruption?
Me too Scoutpost, Ben saying "Sure, go ahead!" to any request sounds like "Sure knock yourself out, won't come to anything anyway."
If Mrs. Hawking is working on a "window of time" that will open up for the O6 to get back, then how did Ben regularly travel to and from the island before- if it's that hard to get back (is it because the island moved?). And how did Locke/Bentham get to the real world where he died? Is it easier to get to "present" time from the island than it is to get back to the island?
Also, how long was Locke back in the "real world" before he was found dead? Do we know that? Maybe he was back in the real world longer than we think?
Good idea Ange!
scoutpost: no. when the pressed the button every 108 minutes, it prevented the island from "spinning out-of-control" through time, so-to-speak. Without that control now, it's making things much, much more difficult.
either that or when Ben "moved" the island (through time) or a combination of the 2.
ange
That's a good thought.
scoutpost
I think Ben,Tom and Richard could leave the island because they knew what bearing to use to come and go.
When Ben turned the wheel he's not suppose to be able to go back. But I think he's trying to work a way through the O6 to get back.
Yeah ok that makes sense re: the bearings. Thx
Oh and I think Jack told Ben he seen Locke a couple of months ago. But I don't know if he'd been in L.A. before that.
Knowing a bearing only allows them to come and go if they have "control" over the island. otherwise, it's "anticipation and calculation".
Nice Ange, but what about the little ladder down to it and the preserved heiroglyphics? The lava fell in an advantageous patter? :-D
Aren't they supposed to be answering questions at this point? Seems like we opened up a whole new can of worms. I still don't understand why the O6 are important if Desmond is the one who has to fix things since he operates by a different set of rules. At least that's what I interpreted Dan as saying.
oh come on. are none of my posts making sense??
i feel like a ghost that's trying to communicate with someone who doesn't believe.
sheesh. hahaha
oh come on. are none of my posts making sense??
i feel like a ghost that's trying to communicate with someone who doesn't believe.
sheesh. hahaha
oh come on. are none of my posts making sense??
i feel like a ghost that's trying to communicate with someone who doesn't believe.
sheesh. hahaha
I'm trying to keep up today but I woke up this morning with a killer migraine I can't kick so I will be here in spirit most of the time till I can see strait.
memphish: my point exactly (regarding more doors opened and not many - if ANY, closed).
by the way, apologies for the multiple post. not sure what happened.
Maybe Hawking's "window of time" actually refers to the finite amount of time that they have to set things back to the stable state again, not really having anything to to with how the O6 get back. Like Cheng said about the power/energy source in the cave, things would go out of control.
With the island skipping around (out of control), they may be working against a situation where once the skipping reaches a critical mass type point, there will be no turning back to normal ever again.
Anonymous: Get thyself a username, and people will be able to interact with you a little better. There's no guarantee each Anonymous is different from any other Anonymous.
Faraday had to recalculate his bearing based on the location of the Island at that time. When it was static, Ben could travel to and fro. Now, not so fast my friend.
Ouch, hope that you feel better soon Lisa!
Kyle: aren't you the "book police", not the "moniker police"? sheesh.
haha. j/k.
For now, I will remain as I am.
But I will begin each post with....
(from Chuck)
Happy?
or better yet, i'll end each one with....
"love,
chuck"
OR....
"peach, love and purgatory"
I'm beginning to think that the FDW had nothing to do with the spacetime flux of the Island. I think it just moves it to one spot on the string (so to speak).
I think the reason it's bouncing around is because the wheel was turned with key people absent from the Island. Bodies, living or dead, that need to be on the Island to keep it stable.
I think maybe the FDW is just a disguise mechanism, but one thrown into total wackiness by the absence of the O6.
Like taking apart a vacuum cleaner, and then finding spare parts when you put it back together.
Anon said
Knowing a bearing only allows them to come and go if they have "control" over the island. otherwise, it's "anticipation and calculation".
You have a point there. With the caos going on, on the island finding a bearing would be almost impossible.
and EVEN IF I were more than one person, would that make me any less "approachable" as a person?
Is this how you would treat a stranger on the street? Wow.
I thought the "Community" was "open-arms" to ALL.
hahaha.
thanks Sayid's girl. always did like you. hahaha.
peace, love and purgatory,
chuck
So Kyle do you think the O6 were constants for the Island and that's why it's tripping through time because it cannot re-connect with them? It has it's own nosebleed so to speak?
Kyle
I agree. I said something similar to that last night but at this point I can't remember how I worded it. But yeah I think when Ben turned the wheel without everyone on the island it caused the time jumps. I also think he knew it would happen.
MAYBE the island is mad because someone took it's toys away and now it's throwing a tantrum?
OR...
perhaps the island is Purgatory or associated with it, and it needs those who "ESCAPED" to come back and fulfill what the must so, certain spirits can rest. The "job wasn't DONE", so-to-speak.
peace, love and purgatory,
chuck
That kind of overreaction (and of course, the fascination with Purgatory) could only belong to one person. My tone filter is now activated. ;)
Calm down there Chuck, it's always helpful to know who's saying what, not for acceptance, but to keep track of what theory belongs to whom, etc. It's not personal. :-)
Kyle: hahaha. there you go. Miss me? haha
peace, love and purgatory,
chuck
Ah Kyle you figured out who our Anon is. :)
Capcom: I know. Hence, the "haha" ending areas of "joking/sarcasm".
And with my "closing" that i will include now, you will know WHOSE theory it is.
But in either case, does NOT knowing who a person is make their statements or hypotheses any less coherent??
Let me postulate......
peace, love and purgatory,
chuck
Tommy Mittelwerk might have put the "wheel" in place after over-throwing Alvar!!!
**dun, dun, duuuuunnnnnn**
peace, love and purgatory,
chuck
Ugh I hate blogger! It doesn't eat my short quippy posts, only the long ones!
I like your theory Kyle. So when Dan said that he didn't know if it was the island moving through time or just the Losties- er uh the LB's- or whether it was both, are you saying that you think the island is staying put at one point on the "string" and that it's just the people who are moving through time?
please please let this go through
The island isn't really "just an island".
Why?
Well, not only is there time travel involved, but the island actually PHYSICALLY appears to be MOVING!!
Are we not noting that the island is constantly being tracked in various locations?
Time travel would NOT explain this, if the island was a permanent spot of the Earth. No, the island is NOT an......ISLAND.
What is it? Hell if I know. Some would jump to the idea of aliens, which wouldn't be outside of the realm of possibility.
Me? I will never count ANYTHING out. However, I believe it's also plausible that it's not of this "dimension", let alone world. Or both. Or neither.
ugh!!!
sorry, forgot my signature....
the following applies to this post and the PREVIOUS one. Apologies
peace, love and purgatory,
chuck
that may also explain "smokey", somewhat. Maybe smokey isn't of this "world" or dimension, either. Or just far, far more advanced than human science.
scoutpost: I think that's very possible. Not willing to stake myself to anything more solid than "possible," but yeah. Static island, fluctuating occupants is a simplified way of saying what might be going on.
We spoke of worm-holes a while back. What about THAT? I forget, but aren't worm-holes more "dimensional" travel, rather than just "skipping" through time??
A-la, "Event Horizon"???
peace, love and purgatory,
chuck
You know how I feel about wormholes...
Kyle: I feel the same way. Even about the idea of time travel. However, since it seems the writers are throwing caution to the wind and not giving us much to chew on, well.......you get my point.
peace, love and purgatory,
chuck
gotta' go for now. talk to you all when i get the chance.
peace, love and purgatory,
chuck
Kyle
You don't think the island is moving,just the people on it?
Then what caused it to "seem" to disappear? Or do you think that was a one time thing when the wheel was turned?
DarkUFO has Doc Jensen's recap of "Because You Left" up on his site, but I didn't get an email for it yet, so I don't know if it's up at EW yet.
Doc Jensen recap
I think Kyle meant that the island moved physically once when the FDW was turned- somewhere on the "string" but that from then on, it's just the people who are "traveling".
And the article is up on EW.com, but the link above is good.
Thanks scoutpost.
It seemed that Dan was saying they both were. But maybe not.
sayid'sgirl: Here's another analogy for you. Remember Boggle? The little pod with dice with letters, and you pop the pod and the dice scramble, settle into a grid, and you make words?
Turning the FDW is popping the Boggle dome. It results in a noise, and even a reshuffling of the contents of the dome.
But what if some of the dice have been taken out of the dome? Then, when the dome is popped, the remaining dice reshuffle but their interaction is changed because there aren't the same number of dice to bounce off of. When they settle, the resulting jumble cannot be directly correlated to that which pre-dated the last pop.
The Island, as a Boggle dome, is trying to find a way to reshuffle the dice to make the grid make sense. It can't, and it keeps on popping and poppping. Only when someone reinserts those remaining dice will the Island stop trying to resolve its error.
The question is, how does the Island determine what the correct number of occupants is? What's the date? The destruction of the Swan, maybe? Is anyone off-Island (alive or dead) that was on-Island (alive or dead) when the Swan went?
You're welcome. I think Dan wasn't sure whether it was either/or or both. Or maybe it was that he didn't want to take the time to explain to half naked Sawyer?
Ben knew that once he turned the FDW he would not be able to go back to the island again. For him to know that, either someone passed that knowledge down to him or he saw it happen before.
What if Widmore (or maybe even Hawking) turned the wheel previously and have been searching for a way back ever since
Oh it's official! Doc Jensen refers to Sawyer et al. as the Left Behinders! LOL
Yay. I still vote for LBs for short.
Acewebguy -- does that mean Widmore's been searching since pre-DI? It seems like Hawking knows how to find it. I guess that means she is NOT working for/with Widmore.
Heh. A little board game confusion. Mixing elements of Boggle and Trouble in my brain. Replace "pop" with "shake," and that's what I'm getting at.
Kyle
Ok I get all that and agree. Great analogy BTW.
I was just wondering if you thought the island itself ever moved?
lol kyle
That's ok I knew what you meant.
I do, but only once. The subsequent time shifts are aftereffects of that single physical realignment.
I could be totally off base, but yes I think Widmore has been searching for that Island for much longer than we think.
It doesn't seem like he left the island voluntarily, so I think he was either forced off or sacrificed via the FDW.
Also, remember the scene where Ben had all that different currency? What if Widmore was going back and forth the same way and that is the way he aquired his wealth. He seems to have his hand in so many industries and this could be how he accomplished it.
Finally, he sense of entitlement to the island comes off as one as either
(A) original occupant
(B) original discoverer
(C) original designer
(D) Some combo of above
BTW, I do not think anyone esle mentioned this...but....
THANK YOU for going back to Wednesdays!!!!
I hated Thursdays and can finally admit it
(at least until they decide on season 6)
Hey acewebguy is that your daughter in your pic? She's adorable.
I preferred Thursdays. Viva la difference.
I think if you look at this screencap of Mrs. Hawking's computer it is showing us that the Island is moving physically. Maybe the 70 hours thing is that in 70 hours it is going to be somewhere that Ben and Mrs. H can get them from LA to it -- not quite in LA this time perhaps.
Oh and also lining up with the right time too.
You guys have been busy!
I feel that Dan has to get back to the FDW to undo the turn Ben gave it and stop the time-skipping.
And according to Mrs. Hawking if they miss their window of opportunity in 70 hours, god help the world. What is on the island that will maybe determine the end of the world? And what necessarily is the correct time line for the island? Current time?
The way Ben, Alpert, Tom, etc. seem to come and go from the island is confusing to me. There has to be a portal somewhere or known bearing that makes it easy. But now that the FDW was turned that opening is closed. Does Mrs. Hawking's calculations figure out when "the stars align" and they can get back?
Thanks Sayid'sgirl but no it's my neice
Hi Everyone! I have been watching the eps online again - there is so much to see. I managed to write down a few thoughts on some of the stuff we saw last night, but I know I'll probably have another post before the next episode I'm sure. You can read it here if you want. I love all the thoughts and theories you guys are coming up with!!! I'm still not caught up on all the comments (about 67 to go!), but I'm going back now to catch up...
I feel so stimulated!!!!
xxoo
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