Face-offs, Flash-Forwards, and Fakers...Oh my! With the Wizard of Oz reference in the title, I can't help but post my favorite producer quote (see below) and fan theory for your mind-numbing enjoyment as you hash and rehash the upcoming episode.
"What's great about those worlds [Narnia, Oz, and Wonderland] is they're all worlds on the other side of Earth. That is to say they're not fantasy realms like in Star Wars. Narnia is actually connected to the world that we know and so is Oz, as is Wonderland... as is our island."Lost Producers
Here is the updated reading list for the 
361 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 361 of 361Maven, I can believe that Aaron is that big at 5 weeks.....if he weighed 25 lbs when he was born!
2costa, over on my blog last night I posted a neat site that I found talking about things on Dan's notebook pages, and it shows a lot of similar graphics too. I didn't post the wiki page then, because I didn't see close enough similarities to the formulas in Dan's notes, but looking at it again after you posted it, I do see similarities so I'm gonna add it to my post with tx to you. :-)
I didn't unscramble Membata, but last night the only real reference I found to it in relatable English, was that it is the Indonesian word for "ambivilent". over at DarkUFO, Iameverybody said the definition of that as "the coexistence within an individual of positive and negative feelings toward the same person, object, or action, simultaneously drawing him or her in opposite directions."
You have a good point there Codysmom.
wow, great discussions (as usual!)
Here's some random thoughts:
Keamy's arm device being what is transmitting and interfering with the radar...yeah, that makes sense. (If you look a few comments down on Ack's page, you'll see some beefcake Keamy. He's ripped!)
I hope Locke finds Halliwax in the Orchid. And a bottle that says "drink me" and a cookie that says "eat me". ;)
I agree that Jack's 10 months and Kates' 5 weeks just don't jive. but then neither does Rousseau's 16 years and Horace's 12. Don't they know we are continuity freaks?
New Otherton--I laughed so hard when he said that! I guess Darlton got their name for the barracks in the canon, now and forever amen. LOL Hysterical.
Loved Loved Loved all the interactions: jack/sawyer, Sun/daddy Paik, the LOOK betw Sun, Jin and Michael, Nadia/Sayid, hurley/Numbers!, Ben/Locke, oh just so many.
Claire's mum out of the coma: did it happen when the plane crashed? When Christian took Claire to Jacob? On day 108?
Jack finds out about his relation to Aaron, can't bear to look at him, breaks up with Kate, the trial happens, Jack and Kate's "no coffee dates until you can deal with Aaron" conversation, Jack decides to embrace Aaron, they move in together, Jack shouts "you're not even related", they break up and viola we have beardy crazy future Jack. Did I miss anything?
amused, I totally hope halliwax is in the orchid, only this time his name is Greg Flame.. lol
I wonder if TPTB are stressing the name, New Otherton, because we're going to be seeing the original (Old Otherton) soon?
Claire's mum out of the coma, Hurley's tachometer with the numbers, even Christian in the cabin speaking for Jacob... all makes me wonder if all the parents are in on something here?
I'm starting to re-watch the episode. Jack talking in the cargo plane about we all know the story sounded so much to me like Mittlewerk in TLE.. The way the O6 are reacting confirms my theory above to me.. sun can't even look at her dad; she knows what she's going to do to him.
Amused said:"... you'll see some beefcake Keamy. He's ripped!"
I'm there! WHOOOSH!
One more thing... the picture shown of the O6 getting rescued on the beach... it looks like Jack is wearing Sawyer's shirt (so, the blood isn't showing for the picture?) making me think if it's faked... it is Ben taking the picture on The Island.
Yes, I saw those pics of Keamy... oh, my!
Could someone post the AckAttack page that ya'll are talking about? I didn't see any Keamy pix there, but I found some loverly Desmond ones. :-x
I see what you guys mean now about the 10 month thingy with Christian's funeral. I still think it could be explained why it was 10 months later (for example what codysmom theorized above), but it doesn't explain why Aaron isn't bigger at that point. hmmmm
One thing I was thinking- along different lines- is that if Ben/Locke move the island, then why in the TTLG FF was Jack trying to find the island again by repeatedly (every weekend) flying between Sydney and LA? Does he not know the island was moved? I would think he must, if for no other reason, you'd think Hurley would mention it. I mean Ben could have that thing invisibly parked off the coast of Nova Scotia and Jack would be wasting his time in the Pacific. He'd have a better chance of finding the island if he hired 2 Portugese guys to sit in an Arctic ice hut watching for electromagnetic anomalies. You guys have any insight on that?
whoa- what if that means Locke doesn't get the island moved like planned and then Widmore takes over the island...and everyone but the O6 are killed?! No, that could never happen........
I too love the idea of finding Halliwax or some version of him in the Orchid. An awesome idea.
As for Jack's flying over the Pacific behavior -- it's not like he's thinking very clearly at that point. I think he feels he doesn't have any viable options for finding it, so this is the best plan he has -- fly and drink; drink and fly.
I couldn't find the above referenced Keamy photo. Sorry.
I guess so memphish. But also, since we know from Sayid's FF that Ben comes to the mainland every once in a while- that you'd think that they could find out where the island was/where Ben moved it- unless they are not being backed by Ben, OR unless Ben is kicked off the island by Widmore, who then moves it himself, and Ben in his attempt to find the island again is using Sayid to kill off all Widmore's men. Ok I don't know if that makes any sense at all. My brain is still a bit fuzzy from all the congestion.
I have the sense that none of the O6 but Sayid know about Ben's appearance in the real world. I think by the time Nadia dies the O6 are avoiding each other.
I wonder if the person that shoots Keamy activating the deadman's switch is the other person Sun holds responsible for killing Jin.
Right Lost2010, either that, or Keamy himself since he rigged the whole thing.
happy to help capcom
if keamys kill switch metronome is wired to the freighter wouldn't the freighter be recieving instead of transmitting.
I think that scene where Ben gave Locke the tunesia retractable knife was meant to make us question when Ben did his middle eastern jump in shape of things to come.
i'm not convinced that the orchid is the temple, locke knew Ben sent richard and the others to the temple, so locke asking ben who was on the other side of the mirror hammers home that point. I said last week that i didnt know which side Richard is on, i know im in the minority that scews towards thinking richard works for widmore, we'll see next week i guess. Part of why i doubted that richard was totally against Ben, i s i couldnt see Ben sending his frenemy to the orchid, but apparently he might not have.
If Ben hasn't used his orchid mirror for fifteen years i tend to think whoever is gaurding the orchid has been doing it for 15 yrs on the secret tip for ben like greta and bonnie in the looking glass. Admittedly Richard's locke recruitment missions were before ben was born, so who knows where it all fits in, but the fact remains that richard wanted locke peaceful, while Ben has always challanged locke to stand up for himself(like when he was captive in the swan). Perhaps only someone with the powers that locke and hurley have are the only ones that can access the orchid.
seems odd that everyscene they show hurley now hes jamming some dharma food down his throat,perhaps the food brings out the visions rather than surpressing them, maybe thats why horace was giving so much chocolate to the kids to see who had the gift, perhaps the chocolate or maybe the secret ingredient(like the one locke used in his sweathouse or put on boones head) is why Ben saw his mom to begin with, hurley didnt start seeing dave again til he was eating the swan food, desmond sure ate a lot of it, Dave sure wanted hurley eating a lot
I'm not sure Ben signaled someone at the Orchid. When they arrived at the Orchid there was lots of foliage. The person signaling was at the top of that mountain. Now they could easily have omitted a jungle climb, but I think Ben was signaling Richard's lookout at the Temple, not someone manning the Orchid.
Anyone have any theories as to why the Coast Guard said the O6 were bad mojo? Seems like rescuing people would be good karmically, not bad.
Might be a specific pilot superstition thing Memphish...flying someone in your plane who's been in a crash.
capcom, this is for you:
keamy
You made my day Codysmom!
Here's an interesting observation from Steve at Magic Lamp:
1) It was getting obvious, but we know for sure that a significant amount of time has transpired between the Oceanic 6 getting rescued and the season 3 finale. All those theories about why Aaron was so much bigger are out the door.
More significantly, Charlie and Christian didn’t show up to Hurley and Jack until well after the rescue. There wasn’t an immediate “You have to come back” message. The numbers showed up for Hurley, but that wasn’t much of a message. I have to wonder if they’re trying to get the Oceanic 6 to return because, as everyone probably already suspects, things back on the island didn’t go that well after they left.
Why wait that length of time? No telling, but I suspect that the “course corrections” in time DO take time. Your and my idea of what is a long time is a lot different in the grand scheme of things. Take Ben and Locke. If Locke was supposed to be on the island from childhood, and the island needed to get someone else there (Ben)… It took a pretty darn long time to arrange things to get Locke on that island.
Getting Charlie and Christian to the mainland a year or so after the rescue is probably the island’s idea of “quick”.
The Oceanic 7?
memphish said:
I have the sense that none of the O6 but Sayid know about Ben's appearance in the real world. I think by the time Nadia dies the O6 are avoiding each other.
I agree with that but it didn't take them long to fall apart. If the memorial was 10 months after the crash that would be sometime in July. Sayid started working for Ben in October.
Also I noticed Sun wasn't at the memorial. I'm assuming she's in Korea. (Hurley's birthday must have been soon after they got back since she was at that) If she concieved in October then she would have her baby in late July maybe early August. When Hurley goes to visit her he's happy no one else is there.
Anyone have any theories as to why the Coast Guard said the O6 were bad mojo? Seems like rescuing people would be good karmically, not bad.
I wondered about that. The only thing I can come up with is that they were said to be dead and now all of a sudden they're alive. I guess that could be bad mojo.
So we don't have any superstitious pilots hanging out over here? :p
seems to me Desmonds vision of claire and AAron getting on a helicopter was planted in his head and not true. I'll leave some wiggle room for things having changed, but i think it speaks to my desmond manchurian canidate theory...
was just popping in, the o7 was very funny.
You know i just dismissed the coast guard comment when he said it as they were in a crash. but you would think that they would be more excited. but i guess some pilots could have major issues flying around a bunch of famous people who have come back from the dead.
regarding the food, i guess that could be why the food drops keep coming.
i think that when ben says they better get on the boat or whatever in the preview hes talking about the raft we see in the oceanic picture when they land on the second island, not the frieghter
I think the pilot mentioned the bad mojo because they were carrying people that had been in a plane crash.
It would be great if we ran into Halliwax/Candle/Wickman at the Orchid station. However, it looks pretty abandoned and overgrown on top. I guess he could be in the real Orchid station underground.
I, too, think that Ben was signaling Alpert and the rest of the Others to meet them at the Orchid station.
It would be interesting if Keamy's group is overtaken and neutralized and then there is no need to move the island. However, it wouldn't explain why Jack couldn't get back to the island.
OMG re the Keamy pic!
"Those crackers are 15 years old"
"I've been dead for 12 years"
I'm wondering about the box that Ben found with the binocs, the mirror, the crackers...in an old wooden box in an old fashioned duffle.
I'm getting a visual of a pre-purge Ben, hopefully waiting on the hillside, with his binoculars and signalling mirror, munching on Dharma-tines, hoping for a sign from Richard that his destiny (fickle bitch that she is) was upon him.
LOL, fysb!
I wonder if those crackers being 15 years old was when the "incident" took place...a moving of the island?
My mother-in-law served some Wheat Thins last Sunday that tasted like they were 15 years old. And despite having tasted them once, I had another, and regretted it. So I can relate to Hurley.
Holy Moly Codysmom, he's ripped there!!!! (probably younger too) Spank you very much! :-D
All my pilot friends are back in NY, but I'm sure they would concur on the superstition thing I mentioned, most especially the military ones, they can get wacky with superstitions.
When Des said that he saw Claire getting on a helo, he didn't really say that he saw them back in the world rescued, he just said that he saw them get on a helo...right?
I agree about how Ben might have been signaling the other Others at the Temple (hopefully!) on the hill, to descend on the Orchid. That's a great idea that Dr.Candlewickwax mght be down there! I wonder, if the island moves with Keamy on it, does the signal to the C4 get interrupted or something, and then the ship blows up anyway? I hope not. I guess that it's all a matter of whether or not the detonation signal is a signal that stops or begins, for activation. :-o
And I love the idea that moving the Island could be the Incident. Do you think we'll ever learn what The Incident was?
I'm actually worried that if they move the Island with Keamy on it it will cause the Freighter to go kablamo because the heart rate signal will cease.
Sorry for the serial posts, but maybe that's why Ben would help Sun take over Paik. He's guilty that he causes Jin's death by removing Keamy from the right time/space causing the freighter to go kablamo.
Me too Memphish, about the dire effects of moving the island with Keamy on it.
memphish- good thinking that moving the island IS the incident. I would say that if it isn't actually the incident, that moving the island is directly related.
memphish said...maybe that's why Ben would help Sun take over Paik. He's guilty that he causes Jin's death by removing Keamy from the right time/space causing the freighter to go kablamo.
I'm not sure Ben knows how to feel guilt or that he would try to make up for it.
WHOA! those pics of Keamy are....amazing (to say the least). Almost makes me think I would trade Jin and Des to keep Keamy around a little longer. Vanity, vanity....
Sorry those pictures have me a little distracted :P
Keamy= Kevin Durand in real life. He's 6'7" tall. (So basically if his gun misfires again, he can just step on Ben.) And in 1994 he was voted Canada's funniest new comedian. (Didn't see that one coming.) Don't think we'll hear Keamy cracking any jokes anytime soon.
Obsession over.
Well, with those keamy photos we have another month of the LostMen calendar filled! I think Keamy should be Mr September...
Jin in April
Des in May
Jack in June
Sawyer would be July
Group shot for August!
Steamy Keamy
Sayid=October
Michael? Hurley? Locke? Ben? all 4? for November
Alpert would have to be December
Who do we get for Jan, Feb, Mar?
Hey, I haven't read through the whole thread, so apologies if someone brough this up already...
What do people think about Ben's throwaway comment about the crackers? "Those are 15 years old"? How does that fit into the timeline? I can't remember how long ago the Purge happened, but I think Ben stole Rosseau Jr 16 yrs ago?
And I'm of the belief that Jin, Michael, and Desmond get blown away on the freighter, when Keamy gets whacked by Ben and/or The Others :)
I'm not so sure how Sun and Aaron make it off the freighter though?
I also agree with the concesus that Sawyer and Locke get stuck on the island after Locke moves it. Maybe Ben gets stuck on island as well, but he uses his time/space travel device to get to the desert in Tunisia in order to recruit Sayid as his personal hitman???
Now I'm off to watch the promo :)
I've not read anything, yet, but after downloading and watching my favourite line is -
"Jesus Christ is not a weapon"
I saw where people mentioned that Ms. Decker smiles at another person on her way back to the cockpit in the opening scene of the episode. In this picture you can see another person in the cargo bay with the O6. Who is it?
This is from Jay in at Mistaking Coincidence for Fate:
Also interesting to note that in "The Third Policeman" (which I never got around to posting my review of, although Juno does a nice job), the main character also has to take a long elevator underground to get to the "black box" down there. The elevator is constructed so that whatever weight it carries down, it has to carry the same weight back. You can't take anything out that you didn't bring in. Be interesting to see if that parallel pops up in the finale.
Yes I'm of the opinnion that if the island moves the ship goes boom (and I'm not talking about running a flag up the pole !)
I watched a film called Next this week where the lead character (played by Nicholas Cage) could see a few minutes into his own future, and change how he reacted to a situation. It seems to me that Ben is acting like that, he seems to know what will happen, or at least he thinks he knows what will happen in any given situation, hence the "I've always got a plan" line.
I went to a car show last week and I saw a man that really got me spooked, there was something about him that really seemed familiar. Watching Lost today I realised he had the same TShirt on as Hurley, same colour same pattern.
memphish
The only other person that I can think of if they're from the island and not part of the crew is Ben or Michael. I would say Locke but I can't see him leaving the island. Anyone else would be sitting with the rest of them.
J. Wood's up.
amused - Paolo, Charlie, Boone, or Eko have some potential for your calendar boys maybe. And any of Kate's ex's from her flashbacks weren't bad.
memphish - I just thought it was a crewman at first but it's more fun to speculate. Alpert maybe?
Would Jack say that we all know the story stuff if it's not someone who knows the story?
Great ideas everyone! :-)
Brendon said: "And I'm of the belief that Jin, Michael, and Desmond get blown away on the freighter"...I think so too, and that will be one of our hiatus cliff-hangers, that we don't know if they survived the blast or not. :-p I wonder if you can just pull those pencil-like connecters out fo the C4 to disable it? I'm assuming that's the antenna sticking up in the front, in that shot of theme entering the room.
Memphish said: "Who is it?"...it could be a regular part of the maintenance crew, or the loadmaster for the C-130. Not that they've got that much of a load, but I think that one flies with the C-130 anywhere it goes. It kind of looks like he has olive or dark skin, but it could just be the bad lighting back there.
Looks like he's got a headset on for communicating with the cockpit, so he probably can't hear them talking amongst themselves.
Thanks Capcom. It's one of those probably correct details, but one that will clearly fuel the conspiracy theorists. Omitting that guy probably would have been easier if he doesn't matter.
I know what you mean, it's sort of like, why would TPTB bother to put that crew detail in there that most people wouldn't know about. He might even be just one of the LOST crew, taking director's cues with the headset on since it's so noisy in the plane with the engines running. :-D So now it will bug us, wondering.
ooooh, yeah Lost2010-- Paolo! mmm, Eko, Boone, Charlie and he could do a spread on the beach near Boone hill. ;)
Oh, the possibilities are endless!
has anyone seen the commercial for Chanel #5 w/Nicole Kidman? I gasped when I realized that the man chasing her was Rodrigo Santoro! Paolo!
I'm probably the last person to realize this...I'm slow that way.
weird serendipity that i was talking about Bens collapsable baton/knife that he used in tunesia and gave to locke this week and told him to hold on to it, well the guys at darkufo seemd to find a screencap from the 1x1 where what appears to be the same baton, is lying right next to Jack when he awakens on the island...you be the judge
http://bp2.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/SC7TCGk2aNI/AAAAAAAAYrY/rW0ovakV45E/s1600-h/Pilot_a.jpg
perhaps the baton is needed to use the orchid, why else would Ben give it to locke, why wouldn't Ben want keamy to get his hands on it?
Oh, no kidding, that's our Paolo????? Those commercials came out long before he was on the show, so I didn't even think of linking him. Tx for the trivia!
Oh snap, 2costa, is that what that is? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Food for much thought.
seems to give some weight to some of the theories that jack was placed there by the orchid, in that he looks almost exactly like Ben when Ben was placed in tunesia(same pose) and also how locke looked after the swan imploded. It also plays into the missing pieces with vincent and christain as well as how it seemed weird that jack was barely hurt and off in the jungle instead of the beach. Also seems to tie in with how Jacks pupil gets smaller rather than larger when he opens his eye, I always thought it was smokey rising up above him, but others have said it was like he was havin an unstuck moment and flashing back into his body
definetly not organic like the bamboo next to it right capcom
Not at all. And it ain't one of Jack's liquor bottles from his pocket either.
Well, if Jack's pupil's get smaller, that would be normal, opening the eyes to light contracts the pupils. Did you mean that they get larger?
i dont remember capcom, but it you watch the scene it doesnt look like a regular pupil to me, even if it was supposed to get smaller it seems like cgi, im not convinced they had even thought up the smoke monster at that point.
well who knows it certainly seems like the black smoke flys out to the top left of the picture form the engine here right before it blows up, its quick but there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7EJfENg4SA&feature=related
p.s just gravy not related to the pupil
here too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEB_i7Basb4&feature=related
interesting as well that claire is one of the first people jack helps, especially after the christain vincent thingy
heres the eye capcom looks very cgi to me, i guess the way they clip to the trees also makes me think smokey rose up...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ae-26V01kA
thoughts about the pupil looking like cgi
rewatching the pilot hugo has gained weight since on the island, i would say at least fifty pounds
Wow, it kind of looks like Smokey is there in the lower left area of the last vid in the shot up the tress at the sky, 2costa. Unless it's a very fast-moving very dark cloud. I think TPTB must have had intentions for Smokey at that point, because his howls and trampage show up very soon at night on the beach.
The pupil does contract, so I guess that's normal as far as we know. I've always wondered how Jack managed to not get impaled on all that bamboo! :o)
like i said capcom its technically accurate that the pupil retracts but looks like, not natural. Did you see the second smokey flying by, its one of those clips just flys by jacks head, i put those to show they prolly did mean to have smokey all along
zort70
I watched that film last week.
It does seem Ben's plan's could be due to future knowledge.
But he'd have to do alot of jumping back and forth to have a plan for every situation. But who knows. The whole time jumping and time differences seem to change in every show.
I think this has played out before, but Ben doesnt know exactly what happens because, like dead zone once someone has prior knowledge stuff always changes slightly...
Im starting to like this telescopic baton being somehow tied to the orchid. Ben has it in Tunesia then gives it to locke right before he goes in the orchid, and now possibly jack has it laying next to him in the pilot.
to go with the whole Ben knows whats going on thing, it was funny that ben hasn't been to his box for fifteen years but he has an item for each person in it, mirror for him, binoculars for john, and dharma crackers for hugo.
That is indeed insteresting, now that you mention it 2costa...each person gets their item from The Wizard. :-)
you know whats interesting is the antimatter/matter wave from dans journal, and physics, to any neophytes its depicted with a left to right line with a wave going above the line then below the line, thats exactly what a linear yin/yang looks like, ill try to to a visual aid later
Yes, please do! :-)
amused - I was reminded of Eko, Charlie, and Paolo when I rewatched the first few episodes of Season 3 after 'Something Nice Back Home' - - a skater needs a little cheering up after watching something like that.
I like that idea about the baton being integral to the Orchid. Can anyone spot it in the Orchid Orientation film? It's freaky about it possibly being in the Pilot next to Jack. That ought to quiet the "they're making it up as they go along" people.
So is there any chance that Marvin Candle and Montand are the same people? Both loss their frickin arms.
The only thing about that black object next to Jack is that to me it looks about twice the size of Ben's stick. You can see Ben hand the stick to Locke here.
I agree now, Memphish, about the size being off. And I believe that previous caps showed the handle of Ben's stick to have a knurled grip. I think that Ben just gave it to Locke, so that Keamy and Co. would find no weapons on him.
anythings possible, who knows what jack has next to him, the producers have said they didnt even think of dharma when they made the pilot so the dharma symbol on the plane was a happy accident. I think it would be cool if its the same thing by jack. Theres no doubt that the way ben appeared when he was laying in the desert seemed to look just like jack in the pilot and locke after the swan implosion.
i think the baton thing last week was important, but not for the orchid, more so to mark a moment in time. Ben had it in tunesia desert say what 2005, he give it to locke on island 2004, so either Ben will meet up with locke again and get it back from locke, or 2005 ben must have come to tunesia from an earlier time, the first option isn't a leap considering sayid seemed to think Ben was on the island so he didnt leave with the O6
sorry my point is maybe they looked back and added this baton this season and tried to tie it all together or just a cooincidence.
When the doors open on the Orchid elevator,and Ben and John step out,do you think Dr. Halliwax will say "What the HELL????"
Hmmm, maybe they need the baton to push the button - because if you leave your arm stuck out it'll get splinched off. . .
i like that lost 2010, about the arm, perhaps montand isn't halliwax maybe he was just an orchid jumper as well.
I'm expecting halliwax to ask john what took him so long, from what i gather Ben is a little behind schedule,surprised"they're already hear"
I also dont see how Ben took out that guy on the horse so easily with a baton, i thought it was a knife at the time perhaps it has a knife on one side
heres some fun facts to make the time pass
Linus (in Greek, Linos) may refer to any of three sons of Apollo from Greek mythology:
Son of Apollo and Urania, he was killed by Apollo during a contest.
Son of Apollo and Psamathe, whose father was the King of Argos. She feared her father and gave the infant Linus to shepherds(jack or christain?) to raise. He was torn apart by dogs after reaching adulthood and Psamathe was killed by her father, for which IMPORTANT------> Apollo sent a child-killing plague to Argos.
Son of Apollo and Terpsichore, he taught music(like the creator of the looking glass station) to Orpheus and Heracles. Heracles killed him with Linus's own lyre after he reprimanded Heracles for making errors. According to other sources, he was the son of the muse Calliope and the inventor of melody and rhythm. Other sources have Linus as the son of the muse Urania and Amphimarus (a son of Poseidon). He was killed by Apollo because he rivalled the god in his musical skill.
Godspeed John Glenn got me thinking
He piloted the first American manned orbital mission aboard Friendship 7 on February 20, 1962, on the "Mercury Atlas 6" mission, lasting 4 hours, 55 minutes, and 23 seconds.
Some accounts of Glenn's years at NASA suggest that Glenn was prevented from flying in Gemini or Apollo missions, either by President Kennedy, himself, or by NASA management, on the grounds that the subsequent loss of a national hero of such stature would seriously harm or even end the manned space program
seems to me that john glenn being the pioneer, but never getting the chance to be in the appollo missions seeem like how Horace set the groundwork for Ben, but wasnt able to see it through, If Ben was at the Orchid 15 yrs ago thats 3 years before horace died
If anyone is john the bapstist it horace.
King Atlas was a wise mathamatician
Atlas is a figure from Greek mythology. He is the son of the Titan Iapetus and Clymene (or Asia), and brother of Prometheus. Atlas was punished by Zeus and made to bear the weight of the heavens (the idea of Atlas carrying the Earth isn't correct according to the original myth)on his back. One of Heracles's labours was to collect the apples of the Hesperides. Heracles went to Atlas and reasoned with him. Eventually, Atlas agreed to collect the apples, and Heracles was left to carry the weight. Atlas tried to leave Heracles there, but Heracles tricked him and Atlas was left to carry the heavens forever. In his epic Odyssey, Homer refers to this Atlas as "one who knows the depths of the whole sea, and keeps the tall pillars who hold heaven and earth asunder".
perhaps Ben is atlas and locke is hercules
In Roman mythology, Mercury was a messenger,and carrying the caduceus, a herald's staff with two entwined snakes that was Apollo's gift to Hermes
snakes apples, we got a good old fashioned garden of eden
i forgot to tie it back to the Apollo candy bars
on the DVD commentary track for "The Man Behind the Curtain" Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse describe Horace and his companion Olivia as factoring significantly in the future "game plan" for Lost.
I think horace went and recruited ben at birth , much as richard went after locke. Horace physically built Jacob's cabin for himself, that has got to be important, maybe Ben had to kill Horace in the purge in order to get {further instructions ) from him
I'm not really an I told u so guy, but if it turns out that Richard is on widmores team and not Bens, im gonna want my props, everthing i read around assumes Richard is working with Ben right now on the show, if so why go behind bens back with locke(sawyer red folder)last season. What was the aarow station horace assigned to really about. The producers have openly stated before there are competing factions within the others...
Capcom said: I think that Ben just gave it to Locke, so that Keamy and Co. would find no weapons on him.
I tend to agree with you. He came in with his hands up to show he had no weapons. (Although, didn't he do the same thing in 2005 in Tunisia when the 2 Arabs approached him? LOL) I also think that the object next to Jack in "The Pilot" seems too thick.
In J. Woods a comparison is made to Ben, Locke and Hurley being the Scarecrow, the Tinman and the Lion. With the title of episode alluding to the Wizard of Oz, it seems like a good bet that Ben/Scarecrow has/wants a brain to be smart (or outsmart others), Locke/Tinman wants a heart or is looking for love/acceptance/family, and Hurley/Lion is the comic relief looking for courage.
i agree that the jack thing is to big, but lost is packed down to every line of dialogue, i can't think that he just handed that to locke if there wasnt some significance, as i said before i think its a nod to us that ben will probably be fine and get his knife/baton from locke again,(and go to tunesia with it), if Ben were to say leave the island or get killed in the finale then we would be hard pressed to expllain Ben having it in tunesia. Unless he went to 2005 tunesia sometime in the last 15 yrs. before dec 27th 2004 on the island
What if we've got Ben's Plan all wrong?
What if being the island's chosen one isn't really that great of a gig? What if the deal is that you can't quit though until you bring Jacob a suitable replacement? But if you make it look like you want Locke to be your replacement, he might figure out that the gig ain't so great. So it's all an elaborate con made to convince Locke it's a great privilege - when in fact it means he'll be pretty much a slave to the island.
And if Richard Alpert can time travel, who's to say that when Ben got the lists and discovered Locke was on the island and that he was amenable to coersion - - that Ben didn't send Richard back in time to those key moments in Locke's life to leave small influences that would later help them make their case.
That's why in 2005, Ben gets to run around and play Indiana Jones. Because he's finally free of the island - - he's stuck Locke with taking care of it. . .
lost2010, if that's what's going on, we'll have to add Tom Sawyer to the reading list :)
Speaking of Mark Twain, did you guys see where that carnival ride had collapsed at the Calaveras County Fair?
And speaking of working Tom Sawyer further into my conspiracy theory - - - if the original Sawyer was the previous leader of the others, that would explain why he was twice Emily's age but doesn't look that much older than Locke. And if he's the one that conned Ben into taking his place, that would explain why Ben picked killing him to be Locke's initiation task.
Lost 2010;
Ben's replacement.That's quite possible,and it reminds me of how Kelvin groomed Desmond to push the button.
To play Devil's Advocate on the Cooper notion, if you had access to the Island, you would never go to Jasper, Alabama.
Look at this screenshot of the Coast Guard plane. That thing on the wall to the right of Ms. Decker looks like Han Solo's face frozen in carbonite.
From Gitsie Girl: 14. The big takeover of Sun’s father’s company was done through five different banks. Could each of the survivors (minus Aaron) have been in on it? Duh! Now why didn't I think of that?
it looks like John Mccain frozen in carbonite, goes w. the dj at hugo's party having a rebel alliance tatoo.
darkufo has a new promo up, they now plan on playing last week's episode before the season finale w/eXTRA fOOTAGE, then play the last two hours, billed as an all night event
i was just watching the promo that was on at the end of the episode, is it just me or was sawyer sitting on the helicopter and it seemed like he was kissing kate on the helicopter, I certainly hope swayer isn't the one to die
im slipping you all a note through the grate it reads, "dont trust the guy wearing eyeliner"
Everyone needs to listen to The Transmission's latest podcast. At the end of their analysis section Ryan discusses parts of the O6 press conference that were filmed, but have not aired. Maybe this will be the additional footage aired before the finale. It addresses why there's not a cop to meet Kate and the other 815 survivors who did not make it to the O6.
memphish - You have a point. I live less than 2 hours from there and even I have never had a need to go to Jasper, Alabama. When exactly did Ben become the leader?
I've been wondering for a while myself, if maybe the next in line has to kind of be tricked into taking the position. Then once the next guy's there, you're free to go. But having said that, for all Ben's "it's your destiny" talk, I don't think that he has any plan to step aside, unless Locke starts to show some guts and intelligent inspiration on the level of Ben's. Like Ben said, Locke is not Ben. At least not yet.
Maybe Ben's secretly glad the island has chosen Locke as it's next guardian. That would free Ben up to go out in the real world and seek revenge on Widmore without having an island to protect!
thats why i compared locke to hercules and ben to atlas, because atlas tried to trick atlas into bearing the load for him. godspeed got me thinking of of john glenn, who was the first to orbit the earth but never made it to the appolo missions to the moon, which i was thinking with all this the island is a moon stuff
I've been reading the discussion about Jack's eye pupil looking like CGI... it looks kinda like CGI to me; I think TPTB did some CGI to add the reflection of the sky to Jack's pupil.
That's my 2 cents
i theorized before that(ben being free off island) thats why ben is free to use violence in tunesia, because he is no longer the leader, if youll notice he never does anything violent until that scene, most of the time he just lets everyone beat him up. Up until Ben lets locke take the reins he has to rely on richard and ethan and tom to do his off island bidding, like a shop where the owner never comes iin to check up
I'm pretty sure that TPTB say in the commentaries to the Pilot that Jack's pupil is CGIed.
Also, re: Ben being able to "always have a plan", and see a couple of seconds into the future, like Nicholas Cage in the film Next...
Maybe Ben is like Desmond was in Season 3, and he's having flashes before his eyes. Maybe that how he's apparently able to see the future (in a very limited way) , but he never foresaw his daughter's death (hence the look of shock on his face when he witnessed her murder)
i have a seperate theory that people that have come and gone on the island have little precog flashes, throughout their lives, but i think ben has a basic script of everything thats gonna happen pretty much, or else things are just too well choreographed to explain
I have some pics of The Goog from his wedding yesterday! Check them out if you want to... at
Thedevilsadvocate.tk
WORD UP GUYS!
Thanks, David, for letting us share in your families happy occasion! Go Goog!
I've been thinking.... what happens to the Freighter Folk after the Oceanic 6 return to dryland? :P I'm assuming the surviving Freighter Folk are sworn to secrecy about their mission and they won't go to the Press to expose the Island and the lies that the Oceanic 6 are telling? Or do all the Freighter Folk die before the Oceanic Six get rescued??
there arent going to be any surviving freighter folk except frank maybe, not that leave the island anyway, imho
I think Keamy and his mercenaries won't be going anywhere. But I think the F4 somehow survive. I think Dan and Charlotte might actually enjoy staying on the island and furthering their theories, research and relationship!
Can't believe only 2costa has mentioned the Helgus Antonius! (late entry to the discussion, I know...couldn't watch the ep until this afternoon)
Sun's involvement in Paik Industries is very intriguing for the future of the Island.
Well,if any F-4s are on the island when it moves, I guess that they ain't going anywhere. :-)
Boy, it's really getting crazazy over at DarkUFO. And people are taking this show much too seriously, wow.
Capcom: Are you talking about Spoilergate?
Just the comments on the spoilers in general, they are like rabid dogs over there! Not civilized like us, hehehe. :-)
Well. I don't read the spoiler section. Or the rumor one, either. I did hear that Dark posted a scene by scene rundown of the finale from Lostfan108 again. And people are not too happy about it.
I know that few here besides me and 2costa look at the extra previews and minor spoilers. I was just noticing/commenting how poeple in the comments over there are actually begging DarkUFO to hurry up and post the synopsis/transcript for the 2-hour finale because they can't wait for the show to air, as if their lives depended on it. Amazing.
As for the Lostfan108 info, I don't understand that at all. I suppose if someone wants to know it ahead of time, that's their biz. But there is so much potential for the entire cat to escape from the bag into the public eye with a reveal like that, I feel that it's unfair to TPTB to do that, and I also feel that any true fan owes TPTB that courtesy of respecting their art and the element of surprise that they desire their art to have. :-(
It's not exactly like hiding the truth in journalism, to avoid posting the transcript for a very special show, before it happens, so I really don't understand why DarkUFO chooses to be the one to do that. ??????
Is Dark planning to publish it Capcom? I hope not. And I wish some sort of internet police would discover and eliminate Lostfan108. For goodness sakes people we're going to have to wait 8 months. What's 2 weeks?
It looks as if he has, verbatim from Lostfan108's email or whatever. Dark stresses the fair use that he would like followed by readers but come on, if you tell the whole world not to touch something, SOMEone is going to touch it. It's kind of naive, IMNSHO.
I know Memphish, I thought of that last night when I was reading their desperate pleas....maybe they should have themselves put into cryo-state until Season 5. :o)
Memphish said: What's two weeks?
14 days.
A fortnight.
A pay cycle.
and I guess, for some, an eternity!
I agree, let's gain some perspective, people.
My TV Guide is calling me again. LOST is on the cover and it says we have answers.
But I'd rather wait until next week to find out.
Hi all, I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but the baton that Ben uses is very similar to, if not the same as one the UK police use.
Here is a link to a web site selling these batons
ya tv guide spoilers and official abc promos are cool, but the whole synopsis is rediculous, as has been stated if people can't wait two weeks, what are they gonna do until january?
you guys keep up wiht the apparitions that appear on island that died off island, have white shoes(christain, bens mom) and apparitions that died on island have black shoes(yemi, charlie)
what ever happened to people doing whisper analysis?
Do these same people read the last page of book first? Jeesh, whatever happened to experiencing the element of surprise?
Also, reading a synopsis is not even close to watching it performed by our great cast! There are so many more nuances and reactions delivered by the actors that adds so much to the enjoyment of WATCHING LOST, not reading it!
Technically, we don't even need an episode of Lost this week. Indiana Jones is coming out Thursday isn't it? Perfect!
2costa - Ben beat the crap out of Sawyer at the bear cages actually - in that one where they con Sawyer into thinking he has a pace maker. He does it with that same baton, I think. At least it looks like the same baton.
nice catch 2010, i never saw that thing before but i was lax about rewatching season 3 episodes, some day i plan on watching em all from the begining, with all the knowledge we have now, theres sure to be things that pop out,
ill say the bear cages were not on THE island, perhaps Ben can only whoop ass off island
2costa - After all the discussion of the baton, it starts to jump out at you. I wonder who was holding it for him when Danielle trapped him in her net?
Interesting Zort. Someone on a blog said that her American cop husband has one too. Was that here? I get all my favorite blogs confused! :-B But I always remember that my favorite bloggers are here. :-)
Capcom: I think I did say that my son has a standard issue baton in the LAPD.
Ben sure seems to get beat up an awful lot even though he's seems to be an expert with that baton!
thats my point maven, seems like Ben just lets himself get beat up on the island a lot.
reffering to batons and l.a.p.d. who would have thought that mark fuhrman would have the longest staying power as an analyst on t.v. out of the OJ trial players. Well its no big surprise its on fox news, you have a real axis of evil dream team there with Mark Fuhrman, Oliver North, and karl Rove
hey capcom heres a detailed yin/yang still looking for a linear one, note the almost uncanny simularity to matter/anti-matter or posative or negative feedback loop diagrams...
http://www.kheper.net/integral/hypostases_yin_and_yang.gif
heres more on that capcom or anyone
http://www.kheper.net/integral/ontodynamics.html
Oops, missed that one Maven! :-) (BTW, prayers for him to be safe on the job always!)
Actually, Mark Fuhrman was pretty much set up in the OJ trial. He's an intelligent investigator and profiler, and he helped solve that sad Martha Moxley murder in Kennedy-ville, CT when no one else had the guts to. And I won't get started on what a great guy Oli is actually, this ain't the place. :-)
Interesting 2costa! Thanks!
this one is very interesting
http://learningtaichichuan.com/bagua.html
Yes! Nice Tai Chi site too, I'm trying to re-teach it to myself.
If Sawyer is Lost's Poster Boy,
then Ben must be Lost's Whipping Boy.Speaking of Sawyer,Josh was on Ellen today ;(already on Youtube).
Congratulations to Mr.& Mrs Goog.
i never thought of this before but kyles comment about the helgus antonius made me think. What if Sun wants to use the helgus antonius to go back to the island and get Jin, assuming he lives through the finale, or at least use paik resources to find the island and save anyone she can...
Or maybe Jin's dead and the other person Sun holds responsible is still on the island so she's aligned herself with Mittlewerk to deliver the virus to the island via the Helgus Antonius. Or not.
3 things from Pop Candy's Lost Comments:
1. I wonder if the unidentified person in the plane could be Frank or Daniel. Frank has the helicopter; Daniel has the Zodiac. And I could see why Oceanic wouldn't want Frank in particular to be part of the press conference. Maybe they "rescue" him to shut him up about the freckage.
2. Maybe the 2nd person Sun blames for Jin's death is Widmore. Ben has manipulated Sayid into blaming Widmore for Nadia's death; maybe he's done the same with Sun.
3. Directly quoting E.G. Remember in the Nikki & Paolo episode when in her flashback she was an actress in a television show and was told that they were going to reveal a major villain at the end of her show's fourth season? It's the end of Lost's fourth season. So will the Cobra finally be revealed?
Mystery man on the plane solved.
From Cinemablend.com:
LOST star Matthew Fox has been sworn to secrecy about the hit show's plot - as he's the only castmember who knows how the series will end.
The actor, who plays Dr. Jack Shephard in the show, admits his fellow stars hope he'll tell them what happens in the final episodes, which are set to be aired on TV in 2010.
But Fox insists he will never reveal the plot - because he enjoys keeping his special secret.
He says, "Yes, it's true. They understand I can't talk about it, but sometimes they'll ask, just hoping I'll blurt it out. Besides, having a secret is fun."
Jack of Jay and Jack has a great crackpot theory today. To restate it briefly, Jack noticed when Hurley's dad mentioned boar that Sayid and Nadia exchanged a look that he interpreted as "Hurley, don't tell details dude." Which also means that Nadia knows the truth. Jack thinks that Nadia was killed because she knows too much about what really happened, and in fact other loved ones of the O6 are being killed too like Hurley's parents and Jack's mom.
I can buy that.
Cattygirl -- Matthew Fox is on Kimmel tonight. Maybe he'll give something away.
Lostit......D'oh!!!!! :o) That would be a real interesting twist!
Yep, just a crew member with earphones on. But I bet some peeps will still think that he's Jacob or someone freaky. Can't say that I blame them tho.
Juicy thought about a villain reveal. It would be nice to be able to pick a side one way or the other.
Did they really give us a penultimate episode with no anagrams? They're slipping.
Also, is that article on Darkufo about the lines cut from the Oceanic press conference safe to read - spoiler wise?
memphish
I thought it was probably a crew memeber. Otherwise they would be sitting with the rest of the O6. Unless it was someone the O6 really hated.
Lost2010. That's the stuff from The Transmission podcast I mentioned earlier. It's not a spoiler since the press conference scene has already aired. I suppose they could show us more of it, but I doubt it. But the information that didn't air wouldn't be considered canon. At this point it's not even the status of a deleted scene on the DVD set. I assume Ryan talked to an extra on the set to get the info. It's interesting, but take it for what it's worth.
I'm guessing those scenes will be the "added footage" in the repeat of Part I. They don't really add much to the mythology and just slightly to the story.
I like that crackpot theory, Memphish. I can see Sayid telling Nadia something besides the lies. It would be sad and tragic if all their loved ones are killed for maybe knowing too much, though.
I don't know - it could be vaguely spoilery I guess - if it's still canon.
re: nadia/Sayid - could that be what ben meant when he talked about trusting your heart vs gun (paraphrasing)
bigdog - I've gotten to where I think that about every scene with Sayid in it. I hope they make it very clear when it happens.
lost2010
I know what you mean. I've been doing the same thing.
Agree with you guys. Sayid sure seems to be leading with his heart multiple times. There must be a big one coming up!
NEW POST!!!!
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