Locke is enlightened as to the whereabouts of Jacob's cabin, life aboard the freighter becomes perilous, and a 12-year-dead Horace Goodspeed starts talking to Locke...but apparently doesn't make much sense. Enjoy!
Thursday, May 08, 2008
Cabin Fever - Season 4, Episode 11
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 397 of 397Dead man's switch huh, that would make since.
I think the Captain was just trying to disfuse the situation. I don't think he knew just how ruthless Keamy and his group really were. I think the Captian was lied to.
I agree that Keamy and Omar seemed to know more about the time issue than most on the ship including the Captain. When they were taking Desmond to the doctor and introducing themselves. Keamy was say where they were from but as far as where we are I....and Omar interupted and said they last ported in Fiji then Keamy says at least we know were in the Pacific.
I'm not sure what the sat phone is for but I do think it was Frank who trough it out (how he got away with that I don't know)the yellow whatever it was he wrap it in was in the bag when Jack was pulling stuff out of it I guess the phone just fell out when it landed.
at the same time i think that abbadon works for widmore, because walt would know what happened on the island, abbadon asking hurley seems to rule out he is walt. I like how in iraq ben played it off like the island was still by fiji to sayid, even though it has been moved by then, i wonder if bens parka might mean the island is in a cold place now?
Holy Cow- Abaddon= a grown up Walt just freaked me out. I know Walt is laying low in his grandma's house in New York, but he really has fallen off the face of the earth hasn't he? I wonder how his character will play out in the end.
I also think that the island has probably been moving through out history, thats why it has a mish mash of all these other cultures. The island prolly did a stint hiding in the greek isles among other place. It could also be like stargate where its the chicken or the egg. DO the artifacts on the island and glyphs reflect cultures that have visited the island or did the island give these symbols to ancient people to give them the basics of religion.
i think its clear that richard wanted locke to pick the book of laws. He wants good little soldier that follows the rules. If it has played out before it reminds me of charlotte and her playing card test of daniels memory. Maybe it played out before where locke did everything that richard wanted and became the scientist that he was supposed to be. In that reality locke owned the book of laws instead of the knife, and that is how richard judges how succesfully their time tweaks have been
if the island is somehow outside of time then who knows locke may have been the one(scientist) who programmed the flame computer to begin with the chess program, the first time around
Thanks for the info on what people think ws strapped to Keamy Memphish! Interesting. I haven't kept up with my reading of Soldier of Fortune magazine lately (I really used to read it) so I'm not up on the mercenery undergarments anymore. :-)
I don't know about everything happening again, 2costa, it may fall under what TPTB said about alternate realities and timelines in a way. But then maybe not.
ironic that locke man of faith could also be a man of science
seemed to me that keamy had a detailed script of events that were unfolding
That scene with Abaddon was simlar, almost word for word at one point, to the conversation that Locke had on the way back from therapy in one of the eps that showed his hospital stay...but it wasn't Abaddon who wheeled him back to his room, it was a young guy. Have to find that scene and check it out again.
widmore didnt find the island in1996
he called ben boy, i bet that a widmore operative on the island wrote out future events in the ledger, widmore got his hands on ben's playbook so to speak
Well, it might not have been so much of a script, as general things to expect from the island and Ben, and contigency plans in the event that primary plans did not work out. I'm up in the air about all that.
Great show. Some thoughts:
1) Perhaps "Jacob" only appears when you truly need his advice or when you are ready. Hence earlier, why Ben took Locke there because it was time for Locke to see Jacob for the first time, and in last nights episode as Kreamy is coming. Jacob appeared when it was time for action, but he doesn't appear randomly.
2) Perhaps "Jacob" changes to fit the visitor. For Ben it is the "Jacob" character, for Locke, it is Christian. Though if Locke does not know that Christian is Jack's dad, thant what significance is it for "Jacob" to appear as Christian for Locke?
3) With 2, if Locke can tie Christian to Jack, then "Jacob" could be trying to tell Locke something about Jack.
4) I think Claire being in the shack is suppost to tell Locke that everything is all right, trust Jacob, follow your destiny. If Claire is dead and was wondering around, Christian/Jacob rescued her and is guiding her. Another show for Locke to trust Jacob.
5) I agree that Locke is not supposed to be the hero in terms of action. Hence why he should not have chosen the knife from Alpert. Ben's comment that Locke is not like him, seems that Ben knows more than he is letting on. Perhaps the similarities in their births is a nod that they are similar in nature. ie, they are both the saviors/heros of the island though as opposites. Ben is the action leader, the one willing to sacrifice everything to save the island (including killing) and Locke is supposed to save the island but save lives in the process. And to succeed, they both have to strike a balance. Notice how when Locke is man of action, things do not go right, he is confused about what needs to be done, and he seems out of place as a leader.
6) Regarding the movement of the island. Perhaps the island is Atlantis. Atlantis is mystical, advanced, and disappeared. All qualities that are the Island. The ability to move through time would support the advance notion (not to mention the mystical qualities).
Wow, hope you all had a good night's sleep! LOL
Are the things Keamy is getting strapped to him making him a suicide bomber. At last resort, if all else fails, everyone goes (including himself).
After reading Doc Jensen this morning, I have to go with his timeline that has Locke failing the Dalai Lama test, refusing to go to Mittelos Science Camp, thereby opening the door for the island's second choice of Ben Linus as the island's savior. Richard Alpert oversees Ben's development, too, from birth...recruits Roger and Ben to the island, and sets him up as the leader. But the island really, really wants Locke...Ben is just a fill-in.
Ben seems to resigned to the changing of the guard. He's jealous of John's dream (of Horace Goodspeed..."Godspeed, John"). Ben longingly says "I used to dream, John." Ben tells Hurley and Locke that he was special and was chosen, but there are consequences to being chosen. Loved the line: "Destiny is a fickle bitch." Ben admits his time is over. The scene with Hurley and Ben with the candy bar (Apollo Bar?) was very poignant. I don't think anyone ever offered to share with Ben (except maybe Annie).
Regarding Doc's theory that Ben was the contingency plan if Locke didn't pan out as the savior of the Island...
Bear in mind that a lot of people thought John the Baptist was the Messiah, until Jesus showed up and started performing miracles. Have TPTB flipped that on its head by having John come later, get "baptized" by Ben, and assume the mantle of savior?
Or is Ben Herod? Locke would still be the Baptist, and that leaves....Aaron as the savior?
Or is Charlie the Savior, literally and figuratively? Locke certainly put him through his paces, and Charlie chose to sacrifice himself. If that's the case, then his "return" to Hurley at Santa Rosa might not be a vision after all.
i think the second ben took over the others after the purge richard tried to change the past. Seems to me that cooper hardened lockes heart for ben. The first time around maybe richard had his way. Cooper training locke to be a mans man ensured that past locke would choose the knife. I think its interesting that richard was all good with locke choosing the volcanic ash vial, seems to show that jacob proper can only be held by the ash.
Interesting Biblical ideas Kyle. I'd even argue that Ben is Saul from Old Testament. The people were clammoring for a king and God gave them one. Then he goes outside Saul's family and annoints David/Locke as the successor. And Saul's son Jonathan deliberately aids David to escape from Saul's attempts to kill David. Likewise Alex often deliberately thwarted Ben's plans.
Good points Jason! You're absolutely right, when Locke tries too hard, he fails. When he goes with the flow, things seem to work out better. Locke also needs to learn how to be led, and he does not like to be told what to do. Big mistake for him.
Wow, Maven, Ben knowing that he was second best, or second choice, had to hurt when he realized it. But I have a question.....was Locke on any of the special lists???? It doesn't seem so. And if not, if he was so special, why wasn't he? Something is not connecting properly here for me.
I can certainly buy Doc Jensen's idea that Locke will make a mistake when he tries to move the Island. Has Locke ever done anything 100% right?
Memphish: Maybe that "mistake" that Locke makes to move the island puts him that rocking chair as Jacob in another time line. There has been speculation that Jacob is really an older, future Locke.
LOL Memphish, he will probably move it next to Manhattan!!!
Maven, maybe that mistake will place Locke in Jacob's place, so Jacob can then be set free. Good for Jacob, bad for Locke.
I like that idea too Maven. Of course we'll all call shenanigans if that's the case after all the Locke is Jacob speculation that rages last year.
BTW, does anyone think that Emily was plowed down on purpose? Maybe to kill the baby? I wonder.
Capcom: Well, we never get to see who was driving the car. Speculation is that it could have been Alpert himself. But we can absolutely see the island's influence in John's destiny by having him survive a preemie birth (at a time when medicine didn't have the know-how they do now), had him escape a marijuana raid, and had him survive an 8 floor fall.
I think one of the most interesting things for me last night was watching Ben. For the first time, he's not sure what to do or where to go. I think Alex's death has really thrown him for a loop and he's unsure of himself.
We see that in the future, he's back to his manipulative ways, but here he actually seemed shy and defensive. He looked like a little kid being scolded at the mass DHARMA grave, and like I said before, when Hurley handed him that candy bar, he almost acted like he didn't know what to do.
I think in that moment, Ben was temporarily stripped of all of his responsibility, his past, his missions. He was just a guy sharing a candy bar with another guy. I think that was kind of an alien feeling to him.
Michael Emerson played it all perfectly. The only guy who does better reaction shots than him is James Callis, who plays Baltar on BSG.
Good discussions Locos. Finally made it through all of them. Something I just don't get... in an earlier episode, Jacob spoke to John and said "Help me". If Christian is Jacob, why is he so willing to talk to John now and actually have a discussion with him? Does this make sense? Maybe Christian is just "playing" Jacob.
Yeah, I think Claire is dead also.
Right maven, :-)
Actually Kyle it wasn't a mistake, but rather it was a mistake but not the kind that is toatally wrong...
John Denver remade the song in 1972, so he did do it as well. That was where I remembered the song from, it was later while I was getting ready for bed, singing the song that it popped into my head that it was Buddy Holly.
Both not only died in plane crashes, but mysterious crashes where the planes were found to have no technical things wrong with them. So no reason for the crashes.... that is what I find interesting.
So no thoughts on Emily Locke listening to a song that was not released yet... I thought that was very strange.
Melissa_lossa: Agree with your take on Ben's realization that he is truly not the island's savior and his destiny is has been fulfilled on the island. He must step aside for Locke. He got a tumor on the island and his daughter was executed in front of him, and all he gets to do now is share a candy bar. Michael Emerson so deserves an Emmy!
That is strange Ded...another props/effects gaff like Paulo's mis-dated newspaper???? Hmmm.
Is Aaron the next chosen one?
maven said...
Memphish: Maybe that "mistake" that Locke makes to move the island puts him that rocking chair as Jacob in another time line. There has been speculation that Jacob is really an older, future Locke.
Enter 77 to move island... lol
melissa
I agree about Ben. I could almost feel sorry for him last night, but knowing what the future brings not for ver long. :)
capcom- I thought about that too- that Emily's accident may not have been such an accident. Lot's of hit and run type accidents happening in this show.
I haven't read Doc Jensen yet, but I like the ideas maven stated about Locke and Ben's places/roles with the island.
also interesting point 2 costa about Locke not wanting to be a scientist/man of science.
One thing I noticed last night about Desmond: I thought it was interesting how he stayed in the shadows watching what went down with Keamy, the Captain, the Doc, and Frank. He didn't try to step in until the very end. Thought this was interesting since Desmond has been called a coward. (Although I have to say it wasn't such a bad idea to stay out of that situation-lol).
I was waiting for Ben to say something about how he used to eat all the Apollo bars he couls handle... but he didn't.
That scene was touching in a wierd way though. Hurley has never been mean to anyone, not even Ben. He mentions he doesn't want to be out in the dark with him, but then shares his candy bar and gets him water. Hurley is just to sweet to go crazy again. I hope at some point he or someone else pulls him out of his funk.
I also wanted to mention that idea of Abbadon being taller ghost Walt... I kept thinking the same thing last night, but concluded that it was just the way he kept calling John... Mr. Locke, like Walt always did.
Maybe I shouldn't have dismissed it so easily... lol
The thought of Locke moving the island isn't an encouraging one is it? LOL
Another thing I thought about in the car this morning (best thinking happens in the car and in the shower) was that I guess when Jack pointed the gun at Locke and pulled the trigger, that the island saved Locke (like it has Michael) and maybe that's when the island decided to try to take out Jack (with appendicitis).
I wonder if Claire did die in the plane crash and that the island protected Aaron because he is the next chosen one? I know this has already been said....it is a good theory.
I can't say that I agree with the idea that X-tian is Jacob, that just doesn't sit right with me. I think they made it a point to have him say that he could speak on his behalf so that we wouldn't think that, but of course that could be meant to be misleading. I just think that if there is a real Jacob, he is just using the images of the dead to or the ghosts of the dead to be his voice. Like in the end of Dogma (Kevin "moves" Smith) where they say that humans can't handle the voice of god. Maybe it is hard for Jacob to communicate directly with the losties, because it does something to the, so he has to use a medium of sorts.
If Claire is dead though and the island intended to take Claire from Aaron, it seems like the island would wait a couple more months. I mean Aaron can only be a couple of months old at this point (about 3 months?). He is really young. How would any of the Losties feed him? Unless there is Dharma formula.
I agree I don't think Christian is Jacob. But why isn't Jacob talking to Locke directly? Makes you wonder if he ever really did speak to Ben directly.
I agree Ded- I don't think CS is Jacob. But why or how he can stand in and speak for Jacob I don't understand. That does leave one to wonder if perhaps Christian is on a different "side" than Jacob. Since Christian is always routing for Jack to get up, get better, and get on with the "work he has to do". And since Jack and Locke and Jack and the island are at odds, I am wondering if this all has to do with the Ben vs. Widmore fight. I just wish we could have a chart that shows who is on who's side.
Here's a question if according to Faraday the only safe heading to and from the island is 305. Then where did the heading 325 that Ben gave Michael take him?
OMG! I just typed this long, well-argued post and blogger ate it.
Let's try again.
I'm listening to the TLC Podcast about Ep. 4.10 and they are discussing how future Jack is failing to see and accept that his destiny is on the Island and that he never should have left it. I think that's a great parallel with last night's episode and flashback Locke. Young Locke absolutely refuses to see and accept his destiny to the point of turning his back on science so much that he goes into retail, becomes a handyman and then is a middle management number cruncher. It also makes me think that Claire is so content in the cabin because she has accepted her destiny.
I also wonder how Ben gets from the guy he was last night to the kicking ass and taking names guy he returns to being in October 2005. I don't understand how Locke and Christian fit into this Ben vs. Widmore shape of things to come war.
And finally, nice call Scoutpost on the Island keeping Jack from killing Locke.
Now that I've made a copy of this I'll try to post it again.
Sayid's girl, that is the only safe heading from the Kahana's location. 325 is the safe heading from the Pala pier. Headings, like time apparently, are relative.
Ok I'll buy that for now. You may be right. But I reserve the right to change my mind later. :)
re: Jack's and Locke's destinies- J. Wood should have a hay day with all the mirror images this time around. :)
I don't think the island was trying to kill Jack. Just maybe giving him something to think about when he realizes that Locke was right and the island is in control.
In the future he obviously realizes he's suppose to go back to the island.
If the island wanted him dead it shouldn't be to hard for it to do since it can prevent people from being killed.
Didn't Emily Locke say once that John had no father or implied that he was from an imaculate conception? Then we hear from the nurse that he was a miracle baby that shouldn't have survived. Then it was a miracle that he survived the fall. Then a miracle that he was able to walk again on the island.
Maybe John is Jacob's son. Emily knowing that he was born of a 'ghost\godly' father was unable to take on the responsiblity of raising a 'special' child which is why she gave him up and then later went crazy because of what she knew of Jacob. Just like Hurley going crazy when he returns from the island and continues to see 'dead' people. Emily went crazy because she knew she had a miracle son to a 'dead\godly\spirit' person.
Richard was then sent to recover John from our society and bring him back to Jacob but he needed to be ready to accept his destiny first hence the tests.
Cooper was just a con man who used John. Emily knew that John couldn't 'die' from the operation since he was Jacob's son so she had no problem taking part in the con. It might have even been part of John's tests to see if he was willing to do anything for his 'father' even die.(Even though it couldn't be revealed that Cooper wasn't his father) Richard then knowing that John would never be able to kill his 'father' because JOhn was willing to die for him and knowing that Cooper wasn't his real father had no problem encouraging him to have Sawyer kill Cooper to appease Ben, leading to the meeting with Jacob.
destinty is a fickle bitch, one of the best lines ever
ded - doesn't Hurley always seem to know exactly what everyone needs? Charlie needed a swift kick in the arse, Sawyer needed to be conned and told that he was a leader, the survivors at large first needed a golf course to blow off some stem and then needed a party to bring them together. Last night, Ben needed a friend - not a follower, but a friend.
Makes me have hope for the future. I think Hurley will be the one who realizes what the island/the people left on the island need from the O6.
2costa - I agree on that line. And it was extra-funny coming from Ben. :)
Enter 77.....LOL Ded! :-D
Good points Dass! And I'm wondering about the "twice your age" thing. Cooper couldn't be much older than 60-ish, but present-Emily is no spring chicken either, she's surely not half his age.
Yeah, fickle as in, now you're the favorite now you're not. Them's the breaks Benny-boy.
I know I wondered about that twice your age thing last night. Cooper may have been older than Emily and not real sure about that. But he's not twice her age.
Do we have three more episodes left?
We have 3 hours left Capcom -- 1 hour next week at 10 pm Eastern, then no LOST the next week (5/22), then 2 hours on 5/29 beginning at 9 pm Eastern.
Tx Memphish. :-)
Hi,
Maybe I missed something on the freigher during the past few episodes, but what I would like to know is:
1. How/when did the captain find out that Michael was the one sabotaging the mission?
2. Why was the captain trying to help save Desmond, Sayid, and Michael?
3. How did Frank find out that Michael is a Flight 815 survivor?
Thanks.
BlueHeron, the answer to most of your questions are in Episode 4.8, Meet Kevin Johnson. Sayid outed Michael to the Captain as a survivor of 815 and Ben's man on the boat. As for why the Captain would help, he didn't sign up for Keamy's mission.
Oh, and I think Frank knows because people on the Freighter talk to each other unlike others we know.
Thanks,
I had forgotten how that episode turned out.
Good call, Scoutpost, on Jack's gun not firing at Locke because the Island prevented it.
However, I think the Island made Jack sick to keep everyone there, not as revenge for trying to kill Locke.
Why didn't Michael tell Frank that he's a survivor of 815? Because the survivors of 815 don't talk to anybody!
Kristin from E! interviewed Damon and Carlton today. The only things spoilery is knowing that XXX and XXX and XXX play an important role in the story, perhaps more important that you otherwise would guess. Really, very, very, very mild. Nothing like in episode x you'll see x. Much more general. But they do address time traveling, Alpert's lack of aging, and what exactly we should be asking about Claire.
Thanks memphish
I'll have to go check that out.
Has it already been discussed that Christian told Locke that Aaron was exactly where he is supposed to be? And as far as I know - he was with Sawyer right about then.
Also, Hurley never said Kate wasn't supposed to raise Aaron, just that Jack wasn't supposed to.
I'm starting to wonder if it's Kate's destiny to take Aaron off the island to raise him, and then later return him to fulfill his destiny. Because I just keep thinking that Sawyer's one of the few people who would end up handing Aaron over to Kate instead of say, Sun. Thus he was exactly where he was supposed to be.
It certainly seems like Kate and Aaron were supposed to get off the island. It's Jack and Hurley who were meant to stay.
So I'm still trying to tie it all up. If Kate and Sun and the two babies were meant to get home, but Jack and Hurley were supposed to stay behind, was anyone else supposed to go with them?
I can buy all that Lost2010. We certainly haven't seen the women going all crazy excusing Sun's labor induced craziness of course.
Who do you think suggested to Locke that he needed a suitcase full of knives for his Walkabout?
if anyone is at risk for getting unstuck its frank, as an airline pilot hes exposed to radiation all the time and noone has come and gone to the island as much as he has. I also think ben didn't go in the cabin because he knew jacob wouldnt be there, maybe never was
id rather know who taught him" dont tell me what i cant do" cause otherwise hed prolly be a dead dharma scientist in the purge or the nobackbone leader of the others
Maybe a bottle of Maccutcheon is Frank's constant.
Didn't Locke tell Jack that the gun was not loaded when he tried to shoot him? Or are we supposed to read more into that than the unloaded gun? Tx.
The Island "told" Locke to unload the gun? It is weird that Locke would unload the gun that earlier he was aiming at Jack and that we saw loaded. In fact he shot at Jack, didn't he? Why would you ever unload a gun on that Island? It has to be interventional.
Could be. Now we have to go back and see how many times since season 1 that a gun didn't go off. :-)
So in the new OLP they talk about the idea of the changing of the guards as akin to the changing of the Dhali Lama.
The Dhali Lama chooses the person who will choose the next Dhali Lama, and so on one chooses one and then chooses one, and then chooses anoher... ect.
So is Ben the second choice or is Ben in fact choosing Locke while on the island now, as in, he presently on the island is sending Alpert back through time to choose Locke and get him ready for when he will eventually arrive on the island, and this is why he is actually being so docile in the change over. He actually chose Locke to be his replacement, but had to do everything he did to Locke in order to fully make him ready for the Things to come. To make him truely commited to the island first and his friends second.
Just a thought.
It's so hard to absorb everything and trying to make sense of it all is driving me crazy, as I'm sure it is with you guys. At one point, I asked myself could Christian have fathered all of the losties? Nah, Sayid doesn't look anything like him (hehehe)
Ib4uc, don't feel bad, that thought crossed my mind as well. Either CS or Richard is the father of us all! :o)
It seemed more to me Ded, that Locke was being chosen when (or before?) he was born, and then got the Lama test as a kid to seal the deal -- but he failed in some way. I guess that I should lisen to the OLP.
Great comments everyone.
I think that the knife, is the same knife that Ben later gave John; to kill Cooper with.And if Abbadon is grown-up Walt;he will become Really-Taller-Ghost- Walt.
BTW, did anyone else catch the promo for new Lost Moments on Verizon last night? Maybe there will be new ones, but I thought that TPTB said they didn't want them to do that in the next hiatus.
Also, what does it mean that TPTB told Kristin that some things will keep us busy, or we'll learn them, over the summer? Probably the new ARG? :-D
ok just say the episode today and read all the great comments.
was wondering along those lines that they all have the same daddy. how do they know the children are special since birth? makes me think that is because they were conceived from someone involved deeply in the story. kind of like in x-files, mulder dad was smoking man, darth vader was luke and lea;s dad. on the island like mike and walt and claire and aaron.
thought it was cool that mike still cant be killed, not by himself or anyone else. has he always been hard to kill. was he suppose to die in the first car accident when he was fighting with walts mom for custody.
and thinking of car accidents people should really look both ways before they cross the street on this show.
capcom
Yeah I mentioned the Lost Moments last night. I was wondering if it was just starting up again.
I heard that commercial last night, but I was typing comments at the time and missed the gist of it. I'll have to check it out on the replay later this weekend and see if there are new Lost Moments, or if they are only touting the old ones.
bigdog said:
thought it was cool that mike still cant be killed, not by himself or anyone else. has he always been hard to kill. was he suppose to die in the first car accident when he was fighting with walts mom for custody.
and thinking of car accidents people should really look both ways before they cross the street on this show.
That's a really good question. I wonder if the island has been protecting him this whole time?
No kidding! lol
Tx Sayidsgirl and Memphish, I thought maybe my TV went into a time loop.
LOL about the car accidents Bigdog.
Bigdog asked: how do they know the children are special since birth?
Good question. That leads me to believe that there has to be some kind of connection to the island rather than just a random child picked out of millions. Could Richard Alpert really be the father of Locke? We know that Christian's blood flows through Aaron, who might be the next Chosen One. I think that Ben might have been a filler Chosen One until Locke was ready and/or convinced to fulfill his destiny. Remember, he has been fighting being a man of science since high school and wants to be a man of faith. I guess the island needs someone with a scientific background to understand what the heck is going on there. LOL
Thinking out loud here: So Locke is born 1956 (per documents), 1957/8 per Buddy Holley release. Alpert tries to recruit him at age 5 or 6. Locke fails the Dali Lama test. Ben is born. DI members Horace and Olivia Goodspeed are there when Ben's born. Alpert tries again to recruit Locke at age approx. 16. Fails. DI in the form of Horace Goodspeed brings the Linus family to the Island as work men.
Young Ben is fed up with drunk dad and runs off after he sees his mom who was never (to our knowledge) on the Island. Alpert fortuitously discovers this? Or is it the case that (brainstorm!) that Goodspeed deliberately put Ben on the Island as an alternative to Locke. But of course, due to course correction, all this other stuff happens to eventually get Locke to the Island to usurp Ben.
Anyone discovered that organizational chart or score card that tells me who is on what side (or even how many sides there are :P) and who answers to whom yet?
LOL, Memphish! My head aches trying to figure out this time line. I can just picture some giant Erase board with lines criss-crossing in every direction!
I think you're really close to what may have happened. The island/Jacob wasn't getting anywhere with Locke (failed his Dalai Lama test and wouldn't go to science camp_, so they took the next best choice...Ben! He's holding down the fort until Locke wises up and gets to the island!
has no one yet made the buddy holly connection ? lost = plane crash, buddy holly died in a plane crash ..
Well that interview with Damon and Carlton was interesting. Thanks memphish. So the big question is NOT "is Claire dead?" but "what happened to Claire?"...very interesting. I'm glad to hear what they said about the rest of this season, regarding pieces of the puzzle that will be filled in. Sounds like we won't be disappointed.
Don't know if I'll be on tomorrow, so if not.....
Have a Happy Mother's Day!!
(call your mom's!) :)
Just wanted to stop by and wish all the moms a happy mother's day!
Random thought: Ben was born early, and when he's the leader on the Island the women can't carry babies past the 2nd trimester. Now that John (who was also born about the same amount premature but he survived) is leader, will the women be able to deliver babies early and have them survive?
Just asking...
The Ben is a substitute for Locke thing to me though gets more interesting because I still can't figure out the loyalties between DI, and particularly Horace vs. Richard Alpert. I almost feel like Ben was a sleeper agent of sorts planted in Alpert's camp. And it worked for whoever planted him (Goodspeed?) because Ben got the Others off track according to Alpert.
We think we know now that Horace built the cabin. We don't know when exactly he built the cabin. It could have been 20-30 years before the Purge. So would his unburied spirit inhabit the cabin? Is that how he his spirit knows Jacob has been waiting a long time for Locke? And why would Jacob and Christian use the cabin if it is Goodspeed's? And why would Goodspeed build a cabin in the jungle in the first place given that they've been battling the Hostiles since before the time Ben arrived on the Island? I guess I"m leaning toward Horace builds cabin, dispute arises with Hostiles, Horace abandons cabin, Jacob inhabits cabin.
Why go to the trouble of burying Danielle and Karl but never really bury the DI? If failure to bury permits a Christian Shephard type immortality aren't you just asking for problems by dumping the DI in an open pit and leaving old Roger out in the VW?
Good question about the babies A2BH. I have a feeling though that fertility issues might be one of the unanswered questions of LOST. My guess is that the only way we'll know something has changed is if beardy future Jack gets back to the Island and we find out people have procreated successfully in his absence. We won't have to know what changed exactly, but just know that things did change. And that would be ok with me.
Ralph at the Dharmalars has a cool idea. He thinks Abaddon put the Freighter 4 on the freighter to help the Island against Keamy's people. So Abaddon for the Island/Jacob is working against Widmore's interests in terms of Keamy's mission. Another mole, that is.
The idea of moving the Island through time rather than space seems to be gaining momentum. So will Sayid take the O6 and then the Island moves in time before they can get anyone else off? And how on earth will Jack ever get back if it's in a different time?
A caller to the Dharmalars had this idea -- Abaddon wants Locke on the Island because someone knows he'll lead to the failsafe key being turned which would allow Widmore to find the Island. But if that's it, who is using Locke now?
Another good idea by that same caller -- Locke was raised by another; Aaron is not supposed to be raised by another or he'll turn into another Locke, i.e. a destiny denying easily conned patsy.
Memphish, you just broached some Qs that I put on my blog about the DI, Horace, and Jacob. I like your ideas about all that. :-) But remember not to get too hung up on the burial vs. apparition theory, because Libby was buried, and she was seen, for example. Maybe the mercs just buried D and K to hide the evidence for a better surprise attack on Otherton. Or not. :-)
And that's what I was thinking about Abaddon Memphish. And I just have to resign my head into thinking that the reason why he said that 815 had no survivors, was to make Naomi realize that it was not an issue of rescuing the survivors, but rescuing the island first. Then, maybe the survivors if the island was saved.
Criminee, it seems that there were more "moles" than rats and roaches on that freighter!
Right Amused, the early baby thing and the fetal fatalities is very intriguing!
memphish said:
So will Sayid take the O6 and then the Island moves in time before they can get anyone else off? And how on earth will Jack ever get back if it's in a different time?
That makes alot of since. Sayid probably can only take four at a time plus himself and Kate holds Aaron. Then the island moves and they can't find it again. I like that theory.
Obviously Locke doesn't know (or care) that Sayid is on a rescue mission when he moves the island.
LOL Sayidsgirl about Locke not caring! So true about him.
BTW, have you thought of any poll Qs for your blog yet Memphish? :-) This episode is a 'target rich environment' for poll Qs, that's for sure.
Capcom, why don't you send me an email with some suggestions. I have a lot of a questions, but they are more essay than multiple choice style. :)
You're right, it is difficult to make the questions simple in nature, since the mysteries are so bloody complex! But your Qs about Horace, the DI, and Jacob above, are a very good starting point.
I really like the idea of a scene where the O6 are moving away from the island and it's there and then they turn around and realize it's not there any more. Or maybe they're so focused on the prize that they DON'T see it disappear but Aaron's looking over somebody's shoulder and sees it vanish. That would just be my kind of cool.
This is one of those that tickles all these little mini-theories in the back of my head but I can't quite herd them all together into a single idea. Locke's episodes always leave me baffled.
i was thinking, why did Ben want to bring hurley with to the cabin if Locke didn;t need him to find it. I definetly think it was classic Ben pretending he didnt know what was gonna go down, but ithink the alex thing is the only thing Ben has been surprised by. I think that miles seeing her leave with christain and locke seeing her with christain, seved a purpose. Claire leaving with christain is the catalyst for why sawyer heads back to the beach w/ Aaron, had miles not seen it Sawyer might have though she was kidnapped and tried to go after her. Ben had repeatedly tried to get sawyer to just leave claire and forget about her,, but he didnt comply. Assuming that locke tells hurley anything about claire it might explain why kate takes aaron off the island. I think Hurley was shown more than jack or kate, because hugo is the anchor to the island that gets jack thinking they need to go back, i think hurley has seen more mystical jacob's cabin stuff and heard about moving the island so that he would feel like there is unfinished business left on the island. Where as jack kate and sayid have only seen glimpses of the islands power, in the future sayid doesn't even know the island has been moved, as evidenced by Ben's cover story about taking desmonds boat to the port of fiji. In a way this descepency seems to show why kate jack and sayid have sort of normal lives off island, while hurley is stark raving mad. I almost wonder if the whole "we have to move the island" was for hurleys benefit so that he could later tell people the island has been moved, its not a foreign role for hurley, just like on the warph hurley is the witness to tell what went down.
2 more thoughts. Has anyone wonderered why keamy isnt very affraid of the smoke, perhaps the kill switch thing he has strapped to him some how protects him from smokey like a mini portable sonic fence. Keamy didnt seem to have any injuries from smokey. Im torn as to whether abbadon could be walt, abbadon put together the fan four team to presumably extract Ben from the island, why would walt send a team then instruct locke to kill naomi. Why would walt be working for widmore, seems like taller ghost walt was working for bens interests. I guess we will see.
My thought was maybe claire after the barracks attack wasnt an apparition or zombie, she was smokey. She was there to give sawyer and hurley a better narrative to tell the others to what happened to claire as i said above so they wouldnt go looking for her, but short of killing her straight out, because this will be the basis for why hugo thinks jack and kate shouldnt be raising aaron and they have to go back. If charlie is a real apparition wouldn't he be having a ghost house party with claire? The producers have said christain is defentily dead, so how was he holding aaron, i think smokey downloads a persons essence when he scans them, like when we could plainly see ekos memories in smokey. In this way the person can live on so to speak or its just a way to manipulate people by ben, chistain could be just like yemi and just be ben or whoever controlling these people...
All right Capcom, you asked and now you shall receive. I've got some multiple choice questions and extra credit discussion ones as well. Get cracking LoCos.
Assumimg that none of the Losties are killed and just left behind. Who will become the leader? Do you think they will fall in with Locke (if he wants them)or will Sawyer or Jin become the new leader?
If I had a vote, I'd vote for Sawyer with Jin as his right-hand enforcer. I'd still have a hard time following Locke. His priority is the Island, not the people on it. And I still can't figure out why.
when locke got put in the locker, he had a geronimo jackson poster as well as a picture or sir Richard Burton, read his bio
http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~garsonkw/biography.html
this guy really seems to fit with locke chosing the knife, not exactly the hero of a conventional scientist, more of a walkabout guy. I think that richards attempt to guide locke away from the knife was his attempt to bring locke onboard with the island earlier thanthe first time it played out, they would have brought him to the island earlier to be the leader, but had locke never been a knife guy he would never have gone on the walkabout. Maybe rather than having some part in his conception richard knew locke was special in 2004, and this is a course correct, with the orchid.
For anyone that said Keamys script he found in the safe was just a strategy guide, why did it have the orchid logo on the cover, as i said before keamy was instructed to kill alex no matter what, but now that ben is on the run and angry it all the more important for keamy to stop ben from reaching the orchid, considering Ben could go back and make sure keamy was never born.
did anyone else think maybe cooper is who ran down emily locke, maybe because he didnt want a kid, or is it just me or has cooper been trying to kill john for a while, if not just break his spirit?
I don't really see them sticking together as a cohesive group after Jack and Kate leave - unless Rose pulls them together somehow or unless there's some uniting goal that we discover needs accomplishing.
anyone online? just figured i'd drop by the library to say "hi". computer is still on the fritz.
apologies for the absence. although, i'm sure you are all tired of me after the years of "purgatory" and all, and honestly appreciate the break. haha.
well.....anyhoo.......
i know the orchid book was just a part of the red folder, but keamy said he just has one place he can go, interesting that widmores folder had the red sleeve like the one richard gave to locke to manipulate sawyer, the ultimate question i still cant answer is Richard working for Ben ultimately or widmore, iknow ben(i wasn't always the leader) and richard were both working for widmore at some point, but who is richard with post ben stealing the island from widmore, it seems unlikely that, if most are right that the temple is the orchid, the ben would send richard to the orchid all this time if richard was working against him because it would be too dangerous to let him have access to the timeline...
hey was the actress that played regina the same girl that was in the second half of tarantinos death proof???
It seems odd that lockes mom didnt seem to try to get out of the way of the oncooming car, reminds me of regina jumping ship, or the fact that doc ray seemed to still putter around with his back turned to keamy, right after keamy told him about the doc being dead thing, almost seemd like he let keamy kill him
is there a tie in to the way horace and olivia gave out the chocolate bars pre-purge(subsequently young ben seeing his mommy) and hurley being able to see the cabin, ive mentioned before that hurley didnt start hallucinating on island until he started gorging on dharma food. Then to hammer home the point they have hurley and en share an appollo bar
Also I seriously wonder if richard is a native hostile or not, i wonder if he wasnt pulling a mr freindly when he first met ben to make ben beleive richard was native, with his wardrobe and messy hair. I used to think that richard not aging proved he was old school on the island, but with the orchid he could have just been traveling back
Hey Chucklez, nice to hear from you. :-) If the dead aren't in Puragatory, they might definitely be lost in Limbo.
Well, 2costa, the second protocol was a top secret (possibly last resort) protocol, indicated by the need for the dual personnel/key access much like ICBM launches. Maybe Widmore doesn't exactly want these mercs to know the secrets of the island, and desires to keep his tactical strategy on a need-to-know basis as much as possible, keeping some of his tricks up his sleave. So he gives them a primary protocol which keeps the arcane things hidden, and runs a last resort scenerio if Plan A doesn't work. So in Plan B, Wid has to pull out the stops and reveal the secret dangerous Orchid station to the mercs, allowing them to use it to their advantage (within the strict guidelines of Protocol-2) before Ben uses it against them. The Orchid station logo on the cover might identify that the Protocol-2 strategy IS the Orchid station. But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's all happened before, it could be just an identifier of the station that they are now to use as the Big Guns. Maybe. :-)
I've been thinking about how this might all be organized - I'm reminded of doing government work - where the right hand never seems to know what the left is doing. It seems like initially - there were several teams who were each informed only of the information they needed to know to accomplish their specific tasks. It certainly seemed like Naomi may have been the one person in the know about the entire mission - but she was killed almost immediately. That left the Captain and Keamy in charge, but not necessarily in the know about everything. Maybe the folder just contains the master plan and they were really supposed to open it together once Naomi was down - but everything was such a mess by then that they didn't trust each other by that point.
That sounds good Lost2010. Unless as one theory goes, Naomi was planted by Abaddon to secretly act against Widmore (who hired the mercs and the scientists) while engineering the insertion of the F-4 experts onto the island. I don't know what to think, but that kind of makes sense, if the theory that she and Patchy knew each other is true. Like Memphish (I think) said, there seems to be groups of agents on the freighter, all working against, or in ingnorance of, each other.
BTW, don't shoot me, but I turned the channel away at the commercials and missed the conversation between Jack and Juliet except for her saying that doctors are the worst patients. Can someone give me the basics of what they said if there is more to it than that? Tx a mil.
I'm not sure I'll ever get it all sorted out myself. Sometimes I think Miles knows more than any of them and maybe he got his info from dead-Naomi.
I don't recall Jack and Juliet saying anything interesting - I think they mostly just set up the fact that Jack was feeling enough better to walk around so it wouldn't seem so abrupt later when he's the one that finds the transponder.
Want to wish all you TLC Mom's a great Mother's Day tomorrow!
Sayid'sgirl said: memphish said:
So will Sayid take the O6 and then the Island moves in time before they can get anyone else off? And how on earth will Jack ever get back if it's in a different time?
That makes alot of since. Sayid probably can only take four at a time plus himself and Kate holds Aaron. Then the island moves and they can't find it again. I like that theory.
Obviously Locke doesn't know (or care) that Sayid is on a rescue mission when he moves the island.
This is a very plausible scenerio, Sayid'sgirl and Memphish! I can totally get behind this idea. And it would make it very difficult for Jack to get back.
I've just watched the episode after downloading it, what a great episode where nearly every line referenced the back story or was a classic line in itself, here are my main thoughts.
When Richard tested Locke and he failed, or didn't get the answer he wanted, Richard turned to Ben as an interim leader until Locke was ready.
Claire is definitely dead, she died during the bazooka attack and was replaced so that she could carry Aaron out of danger.
Keamy was strapping on a smoke monster defence type thingy.
Jack's illness is a way to get him off the island, I think he will get an infection that makes them take him off in the boat that Sayid is in.
If they move the island to the antarctic it's going to be a lot less fun to live on than if it was in the pacific ocean.
Mothers day in the UK was back in March, but as I've just spent the last week with my mum I'll just say Happy Mothers Day to all mums where ever they are.
if there arent at the very least alternate dimensions, which i doubt, the fact that it seemed like richard had more than one right answer of the items he brought seems to suggest it has played out more than one way, i'm not gonna push this point we'll wait and see. I might mention though that the priducers have said that desmond slighlty changed the tiimline in his two time leaps and they may even have an episode someday to show what those changes did. All along most people have accepted the assertion that you cant change things in the timeline or course correction, but i hold that you can and they have, its just widmore or ben trying to convince people that their fate is sealed, so they dont try to change things. Keamy yelling did i change anything yet seemed to fly in the face of course correction, or how th e freightys have been very hardcore about not communicating with the island.
I agree capcom about what you said about the protocol, but i dont think the captain would have said how does mr widmore know these things and keamy was like hes a very wise man or whatever, they wouldnt have had that exchange unless we were supposed to debate it.
It goes back to ben lying to locke about his folder on widmore being based on fact rumour or whatever, when ben is standing in widmores bedroom two episodes later talking like theyve known each other for years. Ben is keeping some of widmores screts as well as his own
I'm not willing to say they aren't changing the timeline - but if they can change the timeline and everything we've seen isn't from the timeline we're currently viewing then it's pretty pointless to try to predict anything at all. You'd might as well stop theorising altogether in that case.
The problem I have with Sayid carrying the Oceanic 6 away and not being able to make a return trip is that they seem so gosh-darn happy at first. Hurley claims he was happy. Jack seemed okay for a while. Sayid found and married Nadia. Kate and Aaron's biggest problem seemed to be the trial. If they left Juliet and Jin standing on the beach waiting for a ride, they aren't quite the people I thought they were.
On the other hand, if they left Jin waiting for a ride and went their merry way, maybe that's why Hurley and Sun aren't too keen on seeing them again.
I keep forgetting to post my other point - maybe it's not that the island gets moved to the polar area. Maybe it was there before it ended up where the Losties found it. Penny seemed to have her bunch positioned in the polar area doing their thing. Maybe that's the last place she knew to look for it.
TX Lost2010 for the Jackiet info. Glad I didn't miss anything.
Also you said: "maybe that's why Hurley and Sun aren't too keen on seeing them again." That sounds very plausible to me.
2costa said:"they wouldnt have had that exchange unless we were supposed to debate it." Which is exactly why we are. :-D
Lost 2010: Your point that if Sayid whisks the O6 away in the Zodiac thinking it's just the first trip, and then Locke goes and moves the island (time and/or space), and they can't go back leaving the rest waiting on the beach, makes a lot of sense. The O6 would seem a lot more remorseful the first moment they set foot wherever they land. It wouldn't take years to feel that they had to go back.
wah guy who plays faraday is in saving private ryan ! i love him .
Emily and Jacob are the most popular baby names
I know, EF, he's good in that.
Weird, Lostit!
Happy Mothers Day.
Mothers come in all shapes and sizes.Love fills them all.
Lost has many Mothers;past,present,and fast-forward Moms.
As children,let us all remember our Mothers today.
Mothers,enjoy your special day.
From one Mom to all... Happy Mother's Day to all the LoCo moms out there!
Happy Mother's Day LoCo moms!
I got Lost Mind Games for Mother's Day. Kiddo and I have already done about 1/2 of the picture puzzles. I think he likes it as much as I do. Those quote and word scramble ones look hard!
I saw a blurb on the most popular names today also, and Ethan was in the top five.
Maybe we are seeing a parallel changing of the guard. From Spine Tumor Ben to Locke and from Appendicitis Jack to Sawyer.
And I think it's time for me to once again toss out my favorite daddy issues theory...
Parthenogenesis!
FYI, the lyrics to "Everyday." It's getting closer, faster, and seems longer. Sounds like LOST.
Everyday by Buddy Holly
Every day - it's a gettin' closer
goin' faster than a roller coaster
love like yours will surely come my way
a hey - a hey hey
Every day - it's a gettin' faster
everyone says go ahead and ask her
love like yours will surely come my way
a hey, a hey hey
Every day seems a little longer
every way - love's a little stronger
come what may - do you ever long for
true love from me
Every day - it's a gettin' closer
goin' faster than a roller coaster
like yours will surely come my way
a hey - a hey hey
Every day seems a little longer
every way - love's a little stronger
come what may - do you ever long for
true love from me
Every day - it's a gettin' closer
goin' faster than a roller coaster
like yours will surely come my way
a hey - a hey hey
Love like yours will surely come my way
a hey - a hey hey
Happy Mother's Day!
Re: Parthenogenesis....I hear ya Barbarajay! :-D Makes me think of older Emily telling John about his immaculate conception. Also, like the X-Files, harvesting ovum and replanting them fertilized in the women, like Scully. Could the man twice Emily's age have been using her and other girls in lab projects to raise special babies? Maybe that's why she didn't want to keep him, because she didn't know how she got pregnant and was afraid of the answer.
Happy Mother's Day to all LoCo moms!
i just hope the secret of the show isnt that the aliens give us 50 years to make hybrids...lol
i rewatched cabin fever yesterday and a couple of things popped out at me
1. I didnt notice this the first time, but horace's visit to locke was on a loop. He introduced himself more than once, his bloody nose went from no blood to blood at least three times, and the tree he knocked over was restored right in front of locke like horace had never knocked it over.
2. I think there are two manifestations of the cabin, there is the real coproreal cabin that horace built when he was alive. His tree chopping and the fact it was shown on the dharma blueprints seems to show this cabin is real. This cabin does not move. I think that hurley in needed by ben for something and it wasnt a risk to bring hurley to the physical cabin becuase he would shock it up to his insane visions. The first time locke saw the cabin it was the moving cabin, the ahs cirlce had something to do with that, jacob was all flickery and mysterious, where as this time christain and claire were just chilling in there as corporeal seeming as can be.
3. Horace said he was building the cabin for himself and the little lady(olivia), he said locke would find jacob there, but it was christain. I think horace may have been bens "jacob". Interesting that locke pretty much acted like it was jacob that tolld him to move the island
4 When Keamy was reading the secondary protocol, he said,"If linus KNOWS(not thinks) Im gonna torch(not destroy or invade)the island, he'll have only one place he can go(orchid)" I think keamys words were very specific, the only way linus could know anything is if hes got a precog script or something of that order, especially something as specific as TORCHING the island.
5 I know it could go either way but i think that richard is still working against ben as he was when he gave locke the red sawyer folder. I think the items dalia lama test goes back to intention. Richard intended to take locke to the island right there and then,just as daniel intended to teach eloise the maze, with his intention in place richard asked locke to pick the items, when he chose the knife richard realized that locke would still live by the knife even if he went to the island then, so by changing his intention and not taking locke he was trying to change things. In the next part where locke was in the locker he was obviously pretty much a passafist, being put in the locker, and mittleos wanted him again, but this time locke wasnt willing to go, by this time the freindly spirit dog had replaced his dead adopted sister maybe important. Why didnt they just kidnap locke, because of the rules, one has to choose ones own fate, just like jack had to choose to do the surgery and claire had to choose to give her baby to ethan. This leads me to think that cooper was working with one side or the other by hardening lockes heart he made non bitter locke impossible.
6. i almost want to beleive abaddon is even taller walt, its interesting in light of richards test, that abaddon would tell him that "All you need on the walkabout is your KNIFE and your wits" Since walt told locke to kill naomi, its not a stretch that older walt would want knife locke on the island, and the other fan four Ben wants there for some reason, had naomi lived she might have successfully extracted Ben, hmmm
7. I think hurley will be the key to finding the island again, considering sayid doesnt appear to know its moved in the future, that might be why ben has him there with locke in his same witness role like at the warph.
8 A last thing emily lockes mom claimed her boyfreind was twice her age. Say emily was 15, that would make cooper 30 at the time, If it was 1955, that would roughly make Cooper 80 years old in 2004. So either Cooper isnt Lockes dad, but the kidney did match, more likely Cooper does some time jumping himself ala richard. I would be willing to beleive ben and locke are brothers, but if that's the case then i think cooper is both's dad.
If youll recall when ben asked richard to bring him the man from tallahasee Richard knew exactly who ben was talking about(cooper)
2Costa, I like your idea of multiple cabins, but in both cases people (Ben and Locke, then Locke) were able to go into the cabins. And Hurley saw Christian in the cabin. But then if ghosts can hold babies, why can't people walk in ghost cabins?
Horace never tells Locke Jacob's waiting for him does he? He says "he" has been waiting for you for a long time. Is Christian rather than Jacob the one who has been waiting for Locke all these years? Revive the Christian = Jacob theories.
And I vote know on Ben and Locke being related. I also think Cooper is Locke's father because why else would Cooper pick on Locke. At a minimum Cooper thinks he's Locke's father. I think the mother was using hyperbole.
I agree that Alpert is on Team Locke vs. Team Ben. He's even willing to fudge things finally by having Sawyer not Locke himself kill Cooper.
Happy Mother's Day to all the LoCos Moms!
Happy Mother's Day!! To all the Moms.
horace said jacob im pretty sure
You're right 2costa he does say Jacob.
Horace says you got to find me John and when you do you'll find him. John asks who? Horace says Jacob, he's been waiting for you a real long time.
i dont think there is a team locke and team ben, locke is a table card like desmond, both widmore and ben try to squeesze the most out of desmond and locke that they can. In my opinion Ben was up to his old I dont know wahat going on fake acting surprised things in cabin fever. First acting like hugo is the only one who could find the cabin. Secondly acting surprised that locke took them to the mass dharma grave, when they were three steps away from it, Ben knows the island well enough that he knew exactly where locke was taking him, if anything Ben took locke there and shot him so hed know where to find the map eventually. Ben knows locke is a game player so hes is not gonna hand him the answers, he made him work for it. Finding the map in the pocket was like mousetrap, one thing leads to another. If Ben didnt want locke to be the new chosen one he wouldnt be. Ben has to leave the island and since events have pitted locke against widmore he can now trust locke to be a steward of the the island. Locke wouldnt feel like he was really special if it hadnt happened like it did. The questions remain of whos team is Richard on widmore's or Ben's and who arrainged flight 815 to be flown over the island, frank never mentioning the pilot seems to men there might be something there. I think Locke is squarely on team Ben at this point, dont forget it was ben who suggested that they go see jacob after the barracks. All this leads me to think there is another reason Hurley was sent with, as i said its because hes needs to know the island is gonna move, he will be the key to jack kate and aaron coming back
has nayone rewathed the horace scene to see the time loop with the trees and the bloody nose, its got to mean something, if you notice in the beginning of the dream ben was sleeping, when he woke up ben was sitting watching over locke
and hurley was dreaming of mallowmars, perhaps they are jamming hugos sixth sense with the spiritual food channel
im used to being ahead of my time, when i mentioned them possibly moving the island, people were like no its cloaked
LOL about the hybrids, 2costa! :-D
If Walt is Abaddon, why would Walt tell Locke to kill the person that Walt/Abaddon hired for the mission?
"...that would roughly make Cooper 80 years old in 2004." That's what I was thinking 2costa, either Cooper looks dang good for his age, or he is younger, and adult Emily looks really bad for her age. :-)
It has occurred to me that if the writers believe that they just showed us a 6-month pregnant Emily Locke hiding a pregnancy (she looked pretty slim) - Kate could well be claiming that she was secretly 6 months pregnant when they crashed on the island and that in the ensuing 3 months, she had Aaron a bit early and was rather large for his age.
i forget who thought the group was not right abbadon or naomi, cause if it was naomi, then maybe walt(abaddon) is working for ben, and he wanted naomi to get miles, charlotte, and daniel to the island, but not let naomi extract ben. We have to look at every character as some what of a pawn in ben/widmore games that both guys play off of?
Happy Mother's Day TLC moms!
Got to go call my own mom..... :)
Hi Loco's I hope all of you are enjoying this Mother's Day.
I was wondering, so I looked it up:
Santa Rosa Mental Health Institute.(Santa Rosa de Lima)She claimed to have had visions, revelations, visitations, and voices, in her short, and saintly life.(Wikipedia)
As a Mother's Day gift to myself, I re-watched "Cabin Fever":
1. Emily seemed sure that she wanted to name her baby John. How did she know it was going to be a boy?
2. The scene with Hurley, John and Ben looking for the cabin: Reminded me of the classic Abbott and Costello bit with "Who's on First". LOL
3. Locke has never meet Horace, yet he dreams of him. Was his bloody nose from the Purge or from the time-loop side effects? Noticed Horace wearing a tie-dyed t-shirt under his Dharma uniform -- which is hippy related. Also, Ben seems to know that Locke had a dream.
4. Nurse to Emily: "He is a fighter, your little John." If Mrs. Locke asks about adoption, why did he end up in foster care? Mrs. Locke does seem to know Richard. He nods to her through the glass window.
5. Hurley says they can see the cabin because they're the craziest. Foreshadows him seeing Charlie and ends up at Santa Rosa again.
6. In the Dalai Lama test scene: The vial of sand would signify the island...something that belongs to him.
7. Hurley steps back uncomfortably when Ben tells him he is standing right where he shot Locke at the Dharma pit.
8. Ben "knows" they're going to torch the island. Widmore knows they're going to the Orchid, which is the place where time lines are changed. This would mean that Widmore has either been on the island before, or knows the various hatches through a connection with Dharma.
9. Hurley actually does see the cabin first (why he was "invivted" along in the first place).
10. There is a "Get Back in the Game" poster in the scene with Abaddon and Locke waiting for the elevator. Plays into Abaddon trying to encourage Locke to not feel sorry for himself.
11. Frank's bag with the sat phone lands on Claire's tent (with the crib), flattening it. Is this another sign that Claire's dead?
12. The realization by Locke that he is, indeed, the Chosen One, is awesome to watch.
Why do we keep saying Hurley is crazy?
I thnk Hurley is not insane. He sees Charlie, and that makes him think he is insane, and when he accepts his psychosis then those around him agree with him and diagnose him insane. He feels more secure in Santa Rosa; Hurley believes he has cracked up. But that doesn't make it true.
If you walked around claiming to have tea every day with someone you know to be dead, you'd call yourself crazy too (and everyone around you would agree).
I don't think that Hurley is crazy either Amused, I think that he's one of the most (if not the most) grounded person in the show. I agree with your assessment of him, and that finding security in S.R is for him the the easiest way out of dealing with post-O6 life. It may not be the most courageous way, but at least he didn't start chugging and popping like Jack. :-)
What he said about them being crazy is probably just coping with the craziness around them and the fact that they are approaching said crazy things head on.
Hurley's not crazy. "Crazy people don't know they're crazy." -- John Locke But everyone else on the show may be crazy. :D
I saw in some previous post some speculation on walt being abaddon. How would that work. if we have seen him in lockes flash back when i thought he was going to push him down the stairs. wouldnt walt have been like 2-3 years old?
I agree that i dont think Hurley is crazy, but i could understand why he thinks he is.
is mikhail dead?
Time travel Big Dog. It's all time travel a la Richard Alpert and Ben.
i thought that, but when desmond jumped he was still desmond, same with richard and ben. should i assume that abaddon doesnt start time traveling until he is an adult? if ao then i think he like his father before him would be aligned with Ben's group.
But why would Walt/Abaddon have Locke kill Naomi, after he hired her and she didn't even get to finish her mission with the F-4s? The island even tried to heal her the first time around. I realize that there could be a million crazy theories to that problem, but I would like to see one that makes sense. :-D
did he actually tell him to kill naomi?
your right though it doesnt make alot of sense.
Well, that's just an assumption, since T.G.Walt told Locke in the pit to get busy and save the island, and the next thing that Locke did was thwack Naomi in the back. Admittedly, that could have been another one of Locke's misinterpretations of what he has been told to do, i.e., chosing the knife over peaceful or lawful (as in Book of Laws) means. :o)
I thought it had been said by Terry O'Quinn or Darlton that Locke killing Naomi wasn't his intent. He was aiming for the sat phone and missed. Locke killing Naomi when he'd been unable to kill his dad was one of those S3 motivation mysteries. I'm sure I heard/read somewhere that Naomi was an incidental casualty Island-serving Locke was willing to make, but not one that he actually intended.
I also don't think that Hurley is crazy. He seeks Santa Rosa as a refuge...is grateful to the cop for putting him there. It's a closed society (not unlike the island) from the outside world.
I, too, don't know how the Walt/Abaddon theory would work. If Abaddon is working for the island, trying to get Locke to get there, why is he also putting together the F4 team supposedly for Widmore? Unless Widmore tells him that his team of scientists will "research" the island, while he goes behind his back and recruits Keamy to put together his team of thugs.
Also, having Locke kill Naomi is perplexing. Capcom, I agree that Locke might have misinterpreted T.G .Walt's instructions at that point.
Conspiracy theorists have thought that Abaddon may be a mole in Widmore's organization, Maven.
maven did you notice how horace would turn his head then his nose would be bloody then turn back and no blood, then turn then blood again, ect. Another part i like is the very end of the dream horace says"goodspeed jonh" obvious reference to godspeed john glenn.
i dont think hurley is crazy per se, but what ever was making him see dave and charlie and the moving cabin, that inciddentily hurley could wish away, was meant to make him feel crazy. JUst as jack takes meds to surpress christains visits, hurley starts off on meds that supress that stuff, but stops taking them.
the island didnt exactly save or heal naomi, it was more like Mikhail put her in a position to live, just like jack prolly would have died had julliette not performed surgery, but seemd to heal right up after that. Or how ben was messed up with his tumour, but didnt heal right away til he was right with the island
There's always a conspiracy, Memphish! LOL
Oh, thanks Memphish. Well, that makes me even sadder for Naomi then!
The whole mole thing really helps my brain calm down at this point, without further facts. It seems plausible that Abaddon could be "working" for Wid (as a mole), but also pick Naomi to watch over the F-4s as a mole, and report to him. Maybe even to sabatage their efforts against Wid. Or, Naomi and the F-4s could all be moles and pretending to work for Wid and then turn the tables once they got to the island. I'm going with moles for now, it's easier!
I liked the "Godspeed John (Glenn)" reference too, 2costa!
i think keamys mission was indeed seperate from naomis( the big reveal in the last 2 is keamy basically outranks even the captain in this mission", im not convinced that abaddon is walt, but i do think it was intrigueing when abbadon says" the next time youll see me youll owe me one" since I cant see JOhn leaving the island itll be interesting to see how abbadon and locke meet again. It seems like they wait for a chosen island baby in like 10 or 20 year cycles, walt and aaron wont be suitable leader for at least 15 or 20 years, i wonder how foward we will see by the end of the series, seems like Ben wants to solve the fertility problem so they could shut out the island from the outside world ang get their future oracles in house(island) instead of outsourcing
One thing that has been bugging me is is: Why John Locke? The Chosen One to protect the island can't just be some random baby somewhere in the world. There has to be a connection to the island. That leads me to think that just maybe Richard is Locke's father. (Sort of reminds me of "New Amsterdam" -- which just got canceled -- in which an immortal man fathers children through the ages and ends up having a son twice as old as him.) And if Aaron is the next Chosen One, we know he has the bloodline of Christian in him.
I like that idea about Aaron, 2costa - by the time Aaron is 25 - 30, both Ben and Locke will be into their 70s, and the island may be ready for a new leader.
I'm also disagreeing with the whole Walt = Abbadon thing. This is going to sound super harsh, but I don't think that we can assume they are the same person just because they're both African American. I'm sorry if that sounds mean, I don't intend it that way!
I think part of why desmond stayed beside penny is hes wants to help mike, seems liek there is no crew left on the ship anyhow, if desmond could fix the engine he could commandere the vessle
i think john would have a little stronger hairline if richard was his father. Like i said before you have to think about how they get their canidates for the special chosen one, maybe they see how they turn out in the present, say 2004 and go back and try to manipulate things, maybe hitting lockes mom was the equivolent of ben shooting locke, like saying island if you still want this guy show me how far youll go to save him, can i throw him out a window and have him survive...
with all the addadon as walt stuff, have you ever thought that maybe cooper is an old version of sawyer, now that should cause a brain cramp, sawyer lockes dad, if youll notice in shape of things to come it seems like sawyer has that "the island wont let me get hurt mojo", plus when he does get hurt he always heals right up, plus sawyer is the one always reading the time travel paradox books
i meant think outside of the box, locke proved he was chosen by things that happened throughout his life leading up til 2004, and richard used the orchid to go back and try to fink things up
nice blog capcom i see we do agrree about the loop with horace, to paraphrase the blast door map,"we are on the same wavelength"
2Costa, I agree that Naomi and Keamy have different missions as well.
A couple of ideas -- it just dawned on me that Mittelos existed from way before the time it was used to recruit Juliet. In fact it probably predates the Dharma Initiative judging from the clothes in Locke's flashback.
The other thing is in Locke's dream Horace said that Locke would find Jacob, but he didn't find Jacob, so is someone/thing conning Locke again? Maven what you said about competing bloodlines Alpert's vs. Shephard's may be something that is at play here. But again, if that's what this is all about what's the deal with Ben and Widmore's personal feud?
And ML, I don't think it's just the AA thing about Walt = Abaddon. People are keying on the way Abaddon says "Mr. Locke" and as 2Costa said the implication that he and Locke will meet again. Still it's a wacky theory, and I think people can easily pick one side or the other. I'm afraid in fact it's one of those things that conceptually I like so much that I'll be disappointed if it doesn't pan out, which I'd say is highly likely.
2Costa - LOL on Locke's hair. I've always heard baldness comes from the mother's side, but my husband's family seems to disprove that theory. As for Sawyer = Sawyer --- argh! Brain cramp.
In-house vs. outsourcing leaders is an interesting thought. Kind of puts even more importance on the fertility thing, as if general propogation wasn't important enough.
Thanks for that idea about why Dez stayed behind, 2costa, I asked for an answer to that on my blog. :-)
I think that it would be cool and weird if RA was John's father too.
Thanks 2costa!! :-)
LOL too on the baldness! And even Prince William is getting to look like his dad on top now! Doesn't have Diana's thick hair, even tho they do say that about the mother gene.
my wife claims that abbadon looks nothing like walt if walt was grown, i tend to agree, but neither of us are forensic aging simulators.
maybe these lost clips could shed some light this one features eko and mike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBZ1s-iiQXY
or this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjvGRGqIey4
dont worry no spoilers
the second clip is brutal, but so funny when locke says we have to watch that again
What if Ben was supposed to be Widmore's man?
Richard was out scouting Locke looking for the next chosen one.
I tend to think Ben was the whole reason his dad was recruited to the island as a janitor because - honestly - could they have been that badly in need of janitors that they had to take that guy?
So if Dharma is Widmore and Dharma recruited Ben, then maybe Widmore thought he was getting his man in place. Maybe they even fed Ben a little of the 'oh so special' with the Dharma kool-aid. But it backfired and Richard gets his hands on Ben first. And Ben ends up the enemy of the man who had planned to use him.
2-costa - I couldn't get that second clip to run.
I don't think Walt looks like Abbadon either - their coloring isn't really the same is it?
Heheh, wouldn't that make Widmore's frustration even more poignant, if Ben was supposd to be working for him! :-D
good ole Mr. Eko, how you are missed.
i always wondered what his true purpose would have been had he not wanted out of the show. why would the island bring both him and his brother to the island just to die?
i think you need a have a youtube account and verify your age to watch the second clip lost2010 it has some adult themes in it.
i was trying to find the clip from oz wher mr.. eko(adebisi) makes abbadon(simon mobay) do all the drugs off the floor, then when addabon(mobay) wakes up he has a sniff of drugs and tells mike(augustus hill) "breakfast of champions"
i think you need a have a youtube account and verify your age to watch the second clip lost2010 it has some adult themes in it.
i was trying to find the clip from oz wher mr.. eko(adebisi) makes abbadon(simon mobay) do all the drugs off the floor, then when addabon(mobay) wakes up he has a sniff of drugs and tells mike(augustus hill) "breakfast of champions"
Check out this interesting idea about Sawyer I found at Pop Candy today:
8. ericmgrant wrote:
krakatoa--
She couldn't have died in the house explosion; she was carrying Aaron and interacting with Sawyer and Miles afterward.
She might be dead, but it wasn't in the explosion
_____________________________
Then Sawyer is dead as well, That would explain how he "dodged" all those bullets and was the only one not hit. And Miles can see Ghosts, and probably already knows those two are dead. What if the only people really alive on the Island are the Oceanic 6, and everyone else is only alive because of the Island? An I making sense? I don't even know anymore.....UNtil next week friends!!
More interesting items from Pop Candy:
From Sister Carrie: To me the most important clue of the episode was Abaddon’s conversation with John about the WALKABOUT. I’ve been to Australia, and walkabouts are important rites of passage for the aboriginal people – you become a man by retracing the steps of your ancestors through the outback and mimicking their heroic deeds. It struck me that each of the Losties – not just John – had been brought to Australia (Australia, as Hurley said, being the key) for this single purpose: to commence their walkabouts, played out not in the bush but on the Island. And perhaps each one of them had an ANCESTOR who had already been on the Island, and they are playing out the same scenarios over and over again (replaying their ancestral “songlines,” as they are called; they are also called – and this may be more interesting – “dreaming tracks”). Abaddon calls it a “journey of self-discovery” in which you go in convinced you are one thing and come out of the experience another. Isn’t that what is happening to each of the Losties? They are being tested to see what they are made of? And what’s the reward for passing the test?
Here’s my corollary to that theory: Maybe those who are permitted to exist as the “undead” are those who have passed the Island’s test, redeemed themselves on the Island of Second Chances. (That is, being “undead” gives a person a sense of immortality.)
Their reward is that they’re allowed to continue in some altered state of existence, like Charlie has, after his final act of self-sacrifice. But those who fail the test (blow their second chance unredeemed or unrepentant) – like Eko did – are dead for good.
Now the burning question: Who is alive, who is undead, and who is in the dead-for-good camp?
I mean, did Locke really survive his gunshot wound? Did Claire (as many here have speculated) really survive the explosion? And my fingers are crossed on this one: Since Rousseau died trying to save Alex (a redemptive act), will we get to see her again as one of the undead?
And another from Sister Carrie: - The two Emilys: there is another significant Emily, Auntie Em in “The Wizard of Oz.”
So, it IS purgatory. :)
If that is true then Jin has some powerful boys, they can still concieve a child after death, no smart ass comments about how his boys could swim realistically for three days after his death. The only way i'd buy theyre all dead theory is if the freckage wasn't faked and they split into two differnt groups of identical 815'ers, the ones on the bottom of the ocean, and the ones on the island, and the sunda trench could be explained by desmond not pushing the button, right at that moment the doppleganger plane could have gone to an orchid hotspot, much as the polar bear might have gone to tunesia during the incident. Now all the 815'ers are off the books so to speak, already accounted for on the grim rapers ledger. Only hole in this one is the whole frank pilot thing...
I think i mentioned it before, but what if claire as we know her has been smokey for a while and ben pulled a switch with the real one at some point and had smokey hold her place to give everyone a more acceptable narrative. I think as the producers said its not is she dead, but whats her deal, and Maybe they are just controlling her actions and emotions with the chip in her head? I'd have an easier time with those then she is dead, but her body didnt get the memo. Miles could have dreamed the claire aaaron christain thing just like locke dreamed horace.
I found this comment over on Nikki Stafford's blog:
Karolyn said: Nikki, I had wondered whether the flashforward of Ben in the desert in Tunisia is him actually escaping Keamy and tribe through the Orchid Station. Maybe that's how he hurt his arm.
That's an interesting idea.
Nikki also mentions the "Don't trust the Captain" note Sayid got 3 1/2 years ago it seems. I'd completely forgotten about that. I guess it's irrelevant now though since there is no more Captain to trust.
NEW POST!!!!
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