Thursday, March 06, 2008

The Other Woman - Season 4, Episode 6


Who is this "other woman" alluded to in the title of this episode? Could it be referring to someone besides Juliet? I'm sure there's more to this little phrase than meets the eye. The ABC summary has ventured into spoiler territory so we decided not to post it here. Be warned...be tantalized...and, as always, enjoy!

246 comments:

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Passafist said...

First!!! WOW it's been a while!

Darkaardvark said...

Hmmm... glad I missed the ABC summary for the one week that it was unusually spoilery. I can guess the FB/FF subject but as to the content of the episode, I'm clueless.

memphish said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
memphish said...

Ready to go! Hope it beats the snow!

Darkaardvark said...

Harper something? Missed that last name. Lee would give us another lit reference but I don't think it was that.

Darkaardvark said...

The juxtaposition of the FB with the first few lines of the on-island plot seems to imply that Juliet knows very well that they aren't here to get them off the island. She's probably privy to the same info that Ben is.

Melissa_Lossa said...

THAT was weird.

memphish said...

Great opening. So are the whispers the women who died from getting pregnant? Did creepy therapist get pregnant? And die.

memphish said...

I think I heard Stanhope for the last name, but it wasn't clear to me.

Tom looks like he's lost a little weight.

memphish said...

I also loved the snappy Jin comeback on Jack.

Darkaardvark said...

Bwahaha??? HATCH? Tempest? Shakespeare? Gas... purge? Mmmwah?

memphish said...

So is Harper real? How did Ben talk to her? Did she trigger the whispers for her escape? Or did the Island?

Did we learn Ethan's wife's name in the mobisodes?

memphish said...

Did the map come from the First Mate's Ledger?

Is Charlotte anything more than Dan's Island caretaker? And where did that gun come from? More jettisoned copter luggage?

Ange said...

Jack saw Harper so she must be real, or like Yemi to Eko.

memphish said...

Or like Kate's horse.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Seriously - is Locke the most easily manipulated person ever?

Darkaardvark said...

Common enemy shared by Locke and Ben, off the island, with the means to fund a freighter...

The California Police Department?

I give up.

memphish said...

Ben's mom-crush on Juliet is so creepy!

memphish said...

I like how they're tossing around the words other and hostile tonight. At this point it has been used for most everyone. If someone doesn't shoot Charlotte tonight, I may have to.

Melissa_Lossa said...

So, looks like Ben has a creepy Oedipus-style crush on Juliet. Maybe this is part of the "history" that Tom was talking about?

Darkaardvark said...

Melissa:

Probably, but Ben's also one of the better manipulators. Seriously, though, when isn't Locke playing into someone's hands?

Codysmom said...

Ewwwwwww...

Melissa_Lossa said...

LOL, memphish - looks like we think alike!

Melissa_Lossa said...

dark - come on, even Opie the police recruit had Locke right where he wanted him. :)

Darkaardvark said...

Y'know, every time I say to myself, Gee, I think they can't show the crash of the flight any more times, Lost always comes back and says, Nope. Any bets on how many more times before the end of Lost? 5, perhaps.

Ange said...

36-15-28!

Sayid'sgirl said...

I knew it was a combo

Ange said...

RED SOX!

memphish said...

How Rachel Blake like was that video?

Darkaardvark said...

Re:Widmore

Wasn't shocked. I don't know, that should be big news... it just seems to fit into place for me. Sorta backs up the idea that Ben really is the good guy, too.


Ben's man on the boat is Ben, I'd wager. Especially since he's been off the island (???!!!) since he showed Jack the tape.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Charles Widmore!!


I don't know, though - is it possible that Widmore and Ben are in kahoots?

memphish said...

So has Sayid killed Widmore yet? And if not, why not?

Thank goodness Juliet baled on the love polygon. Girl has some sense. Of course, she also has some experience in it.

Passafist said...

Let me just tell you all I knew Charles Widmore was behind all the shenanigans of our freighties!!! I knew it and called it weeks ago! WORD UP!

DeDJeZTeR said...

And behind it all Thomas Mittlewerk is pulling the strings... LOL

Darkaardvark said...

Is that the first time she's told Jack that she was wanted for Murder?

Sayid'sgirl said...

Dan and Juliet know each other???

memphish said...

Yes DAA, I think it might be. He knows she killed someone -- think crying over the toy plane and probably guessed that's why she was wanted. But I'm pretty sure this is the first time she's told him.

memphish said...

From the beach Sayid's Girl.

experimentalfilm! said...

awwww all ben wants is a little love .

memphish said...

Jack's pathetic little line in the sand didn't work on Juliet, but it worked on Kate of course.

memphish said...

How badly do I want Dan to turn on Charlotte!

Sayid'sgirl said...

memphish
It seemed more familiar to me.

experimentalfilm! said...

wait so were daniel and charlotte trying to use it to kill them or not ??

experimentalfilm! said...

OHMYGOD BEN IS SUCH A CREEPER

YOURE MINE
AHDJSFHJSD AWKWARRRRRD

Sayid'sgirl said...

Is Locke letting Ben lose why Hurley said to Jack he should have stayed with him?

Melissa_Lossa said...

Ew, Ben just reached a new level of creepiness.


So, who thinks that "the face we never thought we'd see again" is Michael? Is there any way that it's NOT Michael?

jess4ua said...

ML- It's Michael LOL

Also, what was that sound Jack was looking for when Harper disappeared in the jungle? Was it dogs barking?

Darkaardvark said...

Melissa,

Good call. When I read your post, I read 'Mikhail' at first. Please, please let it not be Mikhail.

Eh... this episode was lackluster compared to last week.

Erich said...

Yeah, I think if anyone wanted to stay spoiler-free, this "next week on Lost" let a big one out of the bag, despite their trying to be all mysterious about it.

What a great episode. Good mix of character development/motivation and pure info. Great twist with Dan and Charlotte rendering the toxic gas inert. Even though Widmore's the guy with the boat, I still can't be sure whether Ben's the good guy or not. Heck, who's to say it's actually Widmore's boat? Ben could actually be the one pulling the strings (though I kinda doubt it).

Melissa_Lossa said...

I don't think there's any way that this episode could have lived up to last week, but it was pretty good.

Ben's such a jerk - I love how he was parading around for Sawyer and Hurley at the end. "See you at dinner!" What a tool.

DeDJeZTeR said...

But at least we finally got to see another station...
The Wave.

Which is not a power plant, but a station that gases the entire island... maybe this is what the CV vents are actually for, but smokey has just confiscated them for his own purpose.

Melissa_Lossa said...

ha, ha, dark - I think we need to see old Patchy at least once more before the series ends, at a completely random moment.

Erich said...

In some ways, I liked this week's episode a little more than last week's. There's no way it can compete on the "Holy %&#!$!" scale, but TPTB actually gave us some concrete info and tied up a few loose character ends, instead of simply teasing us with yet another mindfreak mystery. That said, I can't wait for next week!

Melissa_Lossa said...

Here's a fun article from msnbc.com - and not a single spoiler!

The Men of Lost

Melissa_Lossa said...

And with that, I think I'm going to head out. I'm not feeling very well tonight.

Good night, all!

Codysmom said...

Interesting episode. At first I thought it was a Juliet flashforward...

Ben obsessed with Juliet is creepy. I have a feeling he was also telling all the "others" that she was into him, too. That's why they thought they had a "history".

My first thought was that Juliet looks like Ben's mother, but we never saw Annie grown up so maybe it's her?

Codysmom said...

good night, ml... hope you feel better in the morning!

Melissa_Lossa said...

Okay, one more link before I go:

The Secret to Past Desmond's Hair


Thanks, codysmom. :)

memphish said...

I think it's his mom Codysmom. The painting of her was front and center again.

Hurley's starting to develop his Locke/Walt Jedi skills. Interesting! I'm thinking now that Hurley is going to be the key to rescuing the O6, but he'll let Jack take the credit.

Jack is seriously the dumbest man I've ever seen in my life.

If they used The Tempest to do the Purge, why did Ben gas his dad directly? Just to make sure? He's reached a new level of evil genius tonight. That's for sure.

memphish said...

Feel better ML.

Steve said...

I haven't gathered my thoughts on this one yet, but I have to say I liked it.

Answers? I was unaware we were ever going to get any. Yay. Did this one give more answers than questions for once?

It's nice to see flashbacks again... the flashforwards are nice and all, but this seemed more like "LOST" to me for some reason.

Codysmom said...

memphish, yeah, it's probably his mother...

Darkaardvark said...

"If they used The Tempest to do the Purge, why did Ben gas his dad directly? Just to make sure? He's reached a new level of evil genius tonight. That's for sure."

I don't remember if I heard this on the DVD commentary track or somewhere else, but as I understand it, Ben didn't originally open a gas canister to kill his Dad. He would've just been killed by the gas on the island. But I think they said they wanted to show that Ben felt he needed to do it personally. *shudder*

Codysmom said...

I really, really wanted to see a couple of giant hampsters.... LOL

When they said Ben is exactly where he wants to be I thought they meant in that room Locke has him in he'd be safe from the gas. Then he leaves the room to show Locke the tape (and there goes that idea:)

memphish said...

I really enjoyed the episode. It gave us some of everyone didn't it? I took tons of notes. I love the flashbacks to the Others. I loved how many of the dead Others were in the episode. It brought back the whispers. It brought back the omniscient, no track-leaving Others of S2. There was rain. I think the only thing missing was Vincent. Oh yeah, and those on the freighter.

That promo totally ticked me off. A face you never expected to see again? Unless you paid attention to our press conferences, ComicCon, every possible S4 preview article. I hope it won't be Michael, but I'm pretty convinced it is.

I'm also very frustrated we didn't get to see Ben's man on the boat. I read a spoiler that said we would. Dang foiler!

memphish said...

Good memory DAA. I remember that now too from the commentaries.

"Exactly where he wants to be," just like Miles. I don't get these guys.

Darkaardvark said...

In before Doc Jensen devotes a friggin novella to it:

The Tempest = play by William Shakespeare. Features the line "O brave new world that has such people in it" Yes, about people stranded on an island. Etc. etc. conclusions can be drawn.

Erich said...

Loved the way they started the episode by making it sound like Juliet was one of the O6, only to turn it around. Cle-ver!

Whether Harper was saying Juliet looked like Ben's mother or Annie, I'm gonna go out on a Freudian limb and say it all goes back to his mother. I'm sure, in a way, Anie reminded Ben of his mother as well.

Darkaardvark said...

"I'm also very frustrated we didn't get to see Ben's man on the boat. I read a spoiler that said we would. Dang foiler!"

It's Ben! Stickin' to my guns...


Also, was the "power" station really just a "poisonous gas station" or is that really where they get their power? We haven't seen The Hamster yet, so who knows.

Erich said...

DAA: You keep holding onto your Ben theory. I'm pretty sure it's gonna be Michael (thank you very much ABC promo dept.!)

DeDJeZTeR said...

Yay, I think that Harper was referring to his mother and that makes things very creepy, especially if his mom is still roaming around the island somewhere... Ben is such a freak.

Darkaardvark said...

Eh, I fail at putting two and two together. You're probably right (bye-bye, conviction!).

But still, Ben has been going on and off the island, nay? Or maybe someone else recorded the video of Widmore. I suppose Alpert could've done it.

Codysmom said...

memphish, also missing in this ep (and all of s4 so far) is good old smokey

darkaardvark, thanks for the Tempest info.... and, you said,
"Also, was the "power" station really just a "poisonous gas station" or is that really where they get their power? We haven't seen The Hamster yet, so who knows.

I guess it could serve as both. Having gas pumped through the vents would be an added extra compliments of Ben. Hmmm, how did he get the station computers set up for that? Also, how could he have contacted Harper so she would tell Juliet to stop Charlotte and Dan? He seems to be able to communicate even tho Locke has him locked up

Steve said...

Codysmom said...

I really, really wanted to see a couple of giant hampsters.... LOL

When they said Ben is exactly where he wants to be I thought they meant in that room Locke has him in he'd be safe from the gas. Then he leaves the room to show Locke the tape (and there goes that idea:)


I think I am probably alone on this... but I think Ben and Harper are not in contact. I think Harper was planning to use the purge gas, and manipulated Juliet (who she hates) to kill them. Telling Juliet that it was Ben's order is the easiest way to ensure she'd do it... she just didn't realize how far ben and Juliet have drifted, to where Juliet questions orders, unlike the other Others.

With the exception of his obsession with her, I still think Ben might be "the good guy" (in the same way Batman is).

Codysmom said...

The fact that Ben wanted Juliet to stop Charlotte and Miles means he knew Juliet would die?

Codysmom said...

Steve, I like your thinking....

CattyGirl said...

...another great episode that I can't wrap my head around.

Ange said...

Codysmom said...memphish, also missing in this ep (and all of s4 so far) is good old smokey

I wonder, was the Harper that was talking to Juliet, the one that was mysteriously a messenger from Ben (who was locked up at the time), maybe Smokey. Kind of like Yemi might have been. I'm just adding rain+whispers+Harper disappeared.

Ange said...

what I should have said there is Was Harper really Smokey...sheesh. Or I also like what Steve said.

Erich said...

Steve: I'm gonna throw a freaky monkeywrench in your theory and suggest that Harper wasn't really there! Like Taller Ghost Walt, I think she was a manifestation of the island, sent in the form of a person Juliet wouldn't be able to ignore. Whether Ben is behind it, or it's a "higher power" (the island), those whisper people are some creepy mojo.

I also couldn't help but notice Widmore looking up at the camera guy, like he knew it was there. Hmm...

Codysmom said...

ange, interesting idea....

Codysmom said...

erich, I noticed Widmore looking at the camera, too (and he didn't seem surprised or upset)... hmmm

memphish said...

I think Harper could have been Taller Ghost Walt as well. At a minimum she was Wet Walt!

memphish said...

I'm very satisfied with both ARGs at this point. I feel like they've put us ahead of the curve in understanding this season in particular.

All the S4 Find 815 clues have panned out. And that Widmore video looked so much like the Rachel Blake tracking Widmore videos.

I still don't trust Ben in the least though. Who knows who that guy was that Widmore was having beat up. What if it was Penny's finance he was trying to scare off to clear the way for Penny and Desmond? Yeah, I don't believe it either.

If Dan and Charlotte were trying to help, why didn't they tell Jack, Juliet, Kate, etc. who are holding Ben hostage and clearly are not allied with them. I don't understand why they are being so secretive.

memphish said...

I meant tracking Mittlewerk videos.

Codysmom said...

Memphish, yes the ARG's are beginning to pan out for us who followed them. I think we have ALL the find815 clues now. As far as Charlotte and Daniel being secretive, well it makes for better tv AND I think we haven't even touched on the real reason they are there yet. (I kind of like Doc Jensen't idea, tho)

Codysmom said...

Jensen's

CattyGirl said...

erich, I totally agree! That was the very first thing I thought when she popped up in front of Juliet in the rain.

scoutpost said...

Interesting episode- such a different pace than last week's.

This epi was creepy- from wet Harper to Oedipus Ben. *shiver* Michael Emerson did almost have me laughing out loud when he was pulling that ham out of the oven though. He was so giddy.

It is really getting hard to see who here is bad and who is good. I think I agree with you Steve about Ben maybe being the good guy but like Batman. I am wondering the same thing. It's just getting to where the lines are getting so blurred and I really am having a bad feeling for our Losties. I think the whole situation is going to explode and people are going to get killed on both sides.

Regarding all the "hints" toward Ben's man on the boat: I agree I will be so disappointed if it's Michael, because haven't we guessed that for a few weeks now? And they go practically tell us. Now I'm really hoping it's Mikhail. Oh and did you all notice that Harold P.'s name was on the credits tonite. I wonder if he was supposed to appear and they cut out his scene or something?

and memphish you make a good point about Dan and C.S. being secretive. There would be no need for that if they would've communicated. But then we know that apparently no one on this island is very good at actual communication except for maybe Ben. ;)

scoutpost said...

Oh and I have always been such a Locke fan...but now I feel that I'm liking him less and less. Would he please get his act together and quit being sooooo naive?!!

I'm beginning to think Smokey has left the island.

scoutpost said...

uh where'd everybody go? Curse the west coast!

Steve said...

I am still here, wondering the same thing. Still a few hours away from the pacific crew.

memphish said...

I'm still around too Scoutpost. Waiting on the frakking snow that's supposed to start falling any minute now and delaying the start of our Spring Break! I don't want to drive 500 miles in snow and ice! It's bad and long enough in good weather and traffic!

This ends my personal rant of the evening.

Carol Dunstan said...

WAAAH! The place where I normally download Lost has gone! Nowhere is uploading links for me :(

Steve said...

Carol Dunstan said...

WAAAH! The place where I normally download Lost has gone! Nowhere is uploading links for me :(


Refugee of Stage6 eh? Veoh isn't upping it?

LostIt said...

DarkAardvark, I was thinking that Ben's man on the boat was Ben too when I saw the tape, but I don't really see how.

Memphish, you mentione that th guy Widmore was beating up could have been Penny's fiance. It could also have been Desmond. We don't know when the tape was actually filmed. The tape itslef was sometime after he showed the Red Sox game to Jack, but that doesn't mean that was when it was originally taped. That's just when taht copy was made.

DiggityDirge said...

Hey everybody,

Just finished watching. Another good epi in my opinion. So far I have really like this season. Haven't read the comments, although they seem a bit lighter than usual. Here's my observations even though I am probably just pointing out the obvious.

At last, Chucky Widmore the economist. Many guessed it, but it was nice to learn who is in charge of the freighter people. I hope it wasn't another Ben lie. Now I finally can give some credence to why Naomi had a picture of Dez and Penny. Old Chucky knows Dez is there and does not want him returning.

The freightees have good intel. They had maps, routes, and a well planned attack.

So we all probably caught on that Jules and Goodwin were sleeping together a little sooner than the reveal in the epi. I'm sure many of us remembered the epi last year with Goodwin waking up in Jules bed.

It became very apparent early on why this epi was call "The Other Woman". Juliet continues to find herself in love squares (??) and endanger the men that she is interested in. First the love square with Harper, Goodwin, herself and Ben, and now the one with Jack, Kate, Ben.

Jules had good reason besides her sister to betray Ben last year. Up until now we thought her story centered around her sister and the fact she can't island, and now we know it was also because Ben killed Goodwin just to spite her. Ben will stop at nothing to succeed in what he deems important. He motives have turned him from the devout island savior to a dark, sinister man who changes his priorities on a whim.

Spitball theory of the day: Jules is Ben's because she looks like "her" according to Harper. I believe her is Annie. I think the reveal will be that Ben saved Annie from the purge, and they got married. (I think we all suspected that) Annie gets pregnant and dies with child. Ben then takes Alex to replace his would be daughter, and when he sees Jules he finds his replacement for Annie.

"See you guys at dinner." That was the best scene and line of the night.

Jules is surprised by the whispers. I kind of took that as she doesn't know what they are. Then Harper appears out of nowhere. The whispers still confuse me. Maybe they come from Jacob sent Hurley heard them around the cabin.

Another station. Very surprised after the vast amount of exploring on the island that all of these haven't been found. Especially one of that size and purpose.

I was surprised to see the freightees intentions were good after the build up from last week’s preview. They didn't want Ben to sue the gas against them.

Ben is in control as a prisoner and right where he wants to be. Seems Ben wants to be there and appear as a captive. Never saw that one I must admit. He's always playing everyone.

Locke is becoming my least favorite character. Way too gullible. Way to into Ben. Not man enough to stand on his own and let the island and good intentions guide him. He is the eternal sap. I thought it was great that my girl Claire stood up to him and told him what an idiot he is being. Even though as usual Locke took it upron himself to change his approach with Ben instead of letting Claire help him. Dumb ass!

Last, Michael is the spy. This is getting way too obvious.

Going to catch up on comments and watch again. Sorry for the novel :)

LostIt said...

Also, add me in the camp that thinks Harper was smokey.

memphish said...

Heck, Lostit, that tape still could have had the Red Sox game on it. We saw what, 60 seconds at most?

Amused2bHere said...

Outstanding episode! Not only did my fantasy league team get a boost from a Juliet-centric show, but I got a little Jacket moment too...Very cool.

I agree, it's Michael on the boat.

Locke is a wuss. But I still love him!

Go Claire! I hope our little girl from down under gets to sneak a visit with Miles...what would Locke do?

Best line: "it's very stressful being an Other, Jack". LOL

memphish said...

I don't think Widmore is The Economist. Sayid seemed to need Elsa to find out who The Economist was. Didn't he? Or was it just the case he needed him to come out of hiding?

It seemed to me that even Juliet didn't know where The Tempest was, but was tracking Dan and Charlotte. That didn't make sense to me because wouldn't she have visited Goodwin at work? She should have been able to catch up or even get ahead of them given how poor their map was.

memphish said...

Here's something else that confuses me. Why would Widmore need people like the guy Sayid shot on the golf course. He's got the cash to do everything on his own. So who was that guy assuming that Widmore is The Baddie.

At this point I think Ben is The Baddie, and that anyone who trusts him is a fool. Did you hear how emphasized the "we have a deal" thing again? That guy is so twisted. I love it.

Carol Dunstan said...

refugee of freetvdown :( I've finally found something... but I want filefactory... Alright, no more comments from me till I've watched, it's a nightmare trying to dodge spoilers!

LostIt said...

memphish, I agree that Ben's the bad guy. He's shown himself to be very self-serving and using the island, Jacob, the freigher, etc to manipulate others into doing his bidding.

DiggityDirge said...

memphish said:

It seemed to me that even Juliet didn't know where The Tempest was, but was tracking Dan and Charlotte. That didn't make sense to me because wouldn't she have visited Goodwin at work? She should have been able to catch up or even get ahead of them given how poor their map was.

During the day at he beach scene, Goodwin says that Ben has him working with gas or chemicals (can't rmemeber which), a few kilometers away from here. Also, Harper tells her to go the Tempist. I think Jules was tracking them in hopes of cutting Dan and CS off before they got there.

Steve said...

memphish said...
Did you hear how emphasized the "we have a deal" thing again? That guy is so twisted. I love it.


You will recall that Locke once said "and now here I am making a deal with the devil" about Ben...

I still believe Ben is a vigilante-style "good guy" (or at least believes he is), but your observation of the stress he made on the word deal brought this back to mind.

Codysmom said...

Erich said...
Steve: I'm gonna throw a freaky monkeywrench in your theory and suggest that Harper wasn't really there! Like Taller Ghost Walt, I think she was a manifestation of the island, sent in the form of a person Juliet wouldn't be able to ignore.

I don't think Harper is a manifestation because Jack saw her too, but I agree it could still be a higher power that sent her and not Ben.

On the other hand, I still like steve's idea and it would be so fitting if Harper got her final revenge by using the deadly poison that most likely put that big chemical burn on Goodwin's arm (when he was installing it).

memphish said...

Yeah Lostit. What he said to Juliet about who are we to question who is on the list, etc. I'm sure it was his idea to have Goodwin try to make Ana Lulu a "good" person. I wish Juliet would have asked. Why isn't anyone in the mid-cabin "good?" That has always driven me nuts. 48 survivors and none of them were worth stealing? I'm pretty sure that girl that looks somewhat like Kate but hadn't murdered her father was worth taking, but no. Frogurt--I can understand why you wouldn't take him.

Sayid'sgirl said...

Maybe Michael is the captain. Widmore approached him to go after Ben. Although Minkowski seemed afraid of the captain, so that really doesn't fit the image of Michael.
By the way did you guys notice that there is a woman jumping off the boat with chains wrapped around her in the preview? Wonder what that's about?

Dennis said...

Darkaardvark said... It's Ben! Stickin' to my guns...

I can't be Ben... Miles was on that boat, and he was looking for Ben. If Ben was on the boat, Miles wouldn't have needed to come to the island.

As much as I didn't think it was possible, Michael is the only person that makes sense, based on the "you'll want to sit down" comment. It would have to be someone Locke already knows... unless Jacob is on the boat?


memphish said... I don't understand why they are being so secretive.

You must be new here ;)

Steve said...

memphish said...

Yeah Lostit. What he said to Juliet about who are we to question who is on the list, etc. I'm sure it was his idea to have Goodwin try to make Ana Lulu a "good" person. I wish Juliet would have asked. Why isn't anyone in the mid-cabin "good?" That has always driven me nuts. 48 survivors and none of them were worth stealing? I'm pretty sure that girl that looks somewhat like Kate but hadn't murdered her father was worth taking, but no. Frogurt--I can understand why you wouldn't take him.


I would just like to point out, this was the 108th post. ^_^

memphish said...

Nice Dennis.

My favorite part of the preview was the note that said "Don't trust the captain." At least I think that's what it said. I'm so uptight about previews now that I'm only half looking. I wish I'd been not listening.

DiggityDirge said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
scoutpost said...

Well blogger lost my comments so I'll try again.

You bring up good points memphish about the Economist and Widmore. There are certain elements where Ben seems believable (uh oh maybe I'm as gullible as Locke)- but how in the world could Locke agree to make a deal like that? sheesh Ben is the kind of guy you can't give an inch to.

As usual, there are just things that are not adding up. Widmore being the Economist, Ben telling the truth about Widmore or not, to trust Dan and C.S. or not to trust them, etc.

Do you think Miles still has the grenade in his mouth?! Strong jaws? And is it Christmas 2004 yet?

Steve said...

memphish said...
I'm so uptight about previews now that I'm only half looking. I wish I'd been not listening.


Me too...

memphish said...

Steve, I have to say I noticed that when I posted it and felt good about it too. Of course my 8 year old (that's one of the numbers) is so sick of me pointing out the number that it's ridiculous.

DiggityDirge said...

LostIt said...
memphish, I agree that Ben's the bad guy. He's shown himself to be very self-serving and using the island, Jacob, the freigher, etc to manipulate others into doing his bidding.

That's always been the difficult thing with Ben. Knowing when he is lying and when he is telling the truth. He has always used both to his advantage very well. Even going back to the days of Henry Gale.

In tonight's case, I beleive him. I think the commercialization of the island could be a reason that Widmore wants it. I don't see him as the humanitarian type, and the rich typically only want to get richer. The one thing it still doesn't explain is why Widmore wants Ben. Maybe Ben has been sabotaging Widmore for years??

Good point about Widmore maybe not being the economist. Maybe the economist is still Matt Abbadon, but Matt doesn't seem to be hiding himself since he went to the hospital. I have no other good guesses as to who the Economist could be.

Sayid'sgirl said...

codysmom said:
I don't think Harper is a manifestation because Jack saw her too, but I agree it could still be a higher power that sent her and not Ben.


When Shannon was chasing after Vincent and saw Walt Sayid saw him too. And we know Walt wasn't really there. Not mention Walt was talking backwards, maybe he wasn't as good as Harper at projecting himself. So I'm thinking it could be some kind of manisfestation.

memphish said...

The thing about The Economist, I think he must be some guy like the guy on the golf course, i.e. someone in the next tier. I still don't understand why Ben wants to make them "pay" if that's indeed what he's making them do. And I'm not buying Ben's they'll bring people to the Island crap. He's just playing on Locke's Messiah complex. Locke would love to have thousands of people come to see him like mold, but doesn't want to admit it. If 1000s of people showed up we'd have so much time travelling that there's not enough string in the world to keep up with the timelines.

Steve said...

memphish said...

Steve, I have to say I noticed that when I posted it and felt good about it too. Of course my 8 year old (that's one of the numbers) is so sick of me pointing out the number that it's ridiculous.


I know the feeling. My roommate was annoyed at me back in January because I pointed out to him that my birthday was one of the numbers (the 23rd).

scoutpost said...

Oh and the list... Ben mentioned the list- who the heck is making these lists and how do people get on them?

memphish said...

Good point Sayid's Girl. I think we've seen others see things only 1 person knew about -- Shannon and Sayid seeing Walt when he meant to show Vincent :D; Kate and Sawyer saw and touched the horse; Hurley saw Jack's dad. Things are getting pretty darn screwy at this point.

scoutpost said...

That's a good point memphish (about the time travelling) but Locke doesn't know about the time travel, so he can't use that bit of wisdom to help him against Ben. Locke just is unable to see the forest for the trees, and Ben plays him so well. He plays everyone so well.

DiggityDirge said...

Memphish:

Not arguing, just looking for another point of view. Why else would Widmore want the island if not to make money? I don't see him as a humanitarian, he is not dying and needs to be healed, there's no gold on the island, and I definetly don't think he is trying to find Dez. The only thing I can think of to live longer. (suficeing that you can live longer on the island. i.e. the Richard Alpert syndrome)

Is he really going thorugh all this trouble just to find Ben and not have the island for himself?

Why do you think he would want it?

Steve said...

scoutpost said...
Locke just is unable to see the forest for the trees, and Ben plays him so well. He plays everyone so well.


Yeah, and he backs up his cons by being fully acceptant of the fact that he's going to get punched in the face many many times.

memphish said...

True Scoutpost. Locke never asks the right questions. No one on this show ever asks the right questions. Claire wanted to ask the right question, and Locke wouldn't let her. Man!

DiggityDirge said...

Also, anyone notice that Tom looked different tonight in his appearance? Specifically his nose? Just noticed that rewatching.

Steve said...

DiggityDirge said...

The only thing I can think of to live longer. (suficeing that you can live longer on the island. i.e. the Richard Alpert syndrome)


I think that's probably exactly what he's after.

Widmore and Paik Heavy Industries are closely tied to the Hanso Foundation... so it stands to reason he'd know about the Life Extension Project (see TLE ARG1).

A man as rich and powerful as him could really only want one thing, to continue to be rich and powerful. He'd also know about the island (though not necessarily where)... which is why he was willing to bid anything for that journal.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Good ep! Quick comment:

Stanhope = Sat phone

Weird? Meaningful?

memphish said...

Good question DiggityDirge, why does Widmore want Ben and the Island? As for the Island, for all we know he is sick and wants to be healed, but that's too easy.

Here's my totally speculative answer for now. If it's right I'll take full credit. If it's wrong I'll deny all knowledge despite the evidence to the contrary. I think that Widmore has a thing for the sea. You can see it in the things he uses to decorate his office. You can see it in his admiration of Admiral MacCutcheon (sp?). You can see it in his sponsoring a race around the world. I think he's learned about Magnus Hanso through various nautical reference material and when he learned about the ledger he decided it was something he must own. Once he read the ledger which I'm speculating contained descriptions of the Island, of miraculous healing properties, of people who claimed to be 100s of years old and contained maps, he decided he must find it. He structured his race around the world in an attempt to locate it. Desmond's disappearance was a nice convenience for him, but it also got him wondering even more about the Island. Blah, blah, blah, to Widmore finding this Island will be the one truly great thing he ever does.

So that's one answer. The other answer is that he's one of the time guardians like Mrs. Hawking and its his destiny to battle Ben over the Island in some mythic sense.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Another name for a tempest....a maelstrom. Like Miles Straum, who said "I'm exactly where I want to be." Just like Ben, who Harper reported was exactly where he wanted to be. Incidentally, just as Harper spoke that phrase, the name Ken Leung appeared on the opening credits. Ken Leung plays Miles Straum.

memphish said...

What an attention to detail Kyle. I read The Tempest last year. I'd say put it on the book list Melissa_Lossa. It's not very long. I'll look for my notes I'm sure I made about it tomorrow. Need to sleep now. Catch y'all in the am, snow willing.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

The Tempest is indeed very good! Caliban is a fascinating character, and I'd be interested to see how the parallels break down when J. Wood gets his hands on this episode.

Gotta go get some late food. Stupid HS basketball tourney postponed our airing of The Other Woman by 2 hours!!

Steve said...

G'night memphish

Steve said...

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Stupid HS basketball tourney postponed our airing of The Other Woman by 2 hours!!


I am torn by this remark. On the one hand: I would love to live somewhere that takes such pride in local events... on the other hand: How dare they!? Nothing is as important on a thursday night (health not withstanding) as LOST. Inexcusable!

Sayid'sgirl said...

Exactly what kind of gas were they using to power the island?
Is it still a power source now that Dan has made it safe? Or are the lights out in New Otherton?

scoutpost said...

I was getting ready for bed and hubby was watching the episode, my favorite line came after Locke served Ben the rabbit...Ben: "This didn't happen to have a number on it did it?" LOL

Anyway, now I'm thinking where did C.S. get such fighting skills? Juliet and Kate are above average to say the least in their self defense techniques and here Charlotte was going toe to toe with Juliet. There is definitely more to Charlotte than meets the eye. Something about her is suspicious. I think Dan and Frank are pawns and Miles and Charlotte and Naomi (RIP) are in on something bigger.

scoutpost said...

hehe Sayid's girl- no more hot showers in New Otherton!

Off to bed- See you all in the am!

Steve said...

Sayid'sgirl said...

Exactly what kind of gas were they using to power the island?
Is it still a power source now that Dan has made it safe? Or are the lights out in New Otherton?


I think we saw the lights on just after he was finished on the computer... Presumably, the power station would be getting it's power from itself?

Moments away from a flood of pacific posters. ^_^

Tim said...

I don't think the gas was powering the island...

But, all in all, I thought this was a very... well... truthful episode. I suppose I could be wrong, though.

Tim said...

So my main question is... how much does Penelope know about her father's freighter? obviously she kept calling it ... but got no answer. So when she talked to Charlie, did she realize that the "boat" he was talking about was probably her father's?

Also, what book did Locke give Ben to read... we saw him reading it tonight but I didn't notice what it was.

Steve said...

Tim said...

I don't think the gas was powering the island...


No, Goodwin's burn probably came from modifying the Tempest station (installing the gas)... they had power before that.

As far as the Tempest is concerned... what if it is not only the power source of the island, but the generator for the continual storm that surrounds the island?

Every new island landing has occurred during a massive electrical storm... this would also account for why the Others recruit using a submarine.

maven said...

Quick reaction: Not an awesome, OMG episode...but added a lot with character development and motivation. Answered some "why" questions.

BBL

Steve said...

Tim said...

So my main question is... how much does Penelope know about her father's freighter? obviously she kept calling it ... but got no answer. So when she talked to Charlie, did she realize that the "boat" he was talking about was probably her father's?


It's hard to say. She didn't, as Charlie led Desmond to believe, say it wasn't her boat... she simply asked "what boat?" in TTLG.

Tim said...

Sorry, catching up on comments.

Ded, per your Mittelwerk comment – and this has probably already been said – but I suspect Mittelwerk = The Economist.

Codysmom said...

Sayid'sgirl said...
codysmom said:
I don't think Harper is a manifestation because Jack saw her too, but I agree it could still be a higher power that sent her and not Ben.


When Shannon was chasing after Vincent and saw Walt Sayid saw him too. And we know Walt wasn't really there. Not mention Walt was talking backwards, maybe he wasn't as good as Harper at projecting himself. So I'm thinking it could be some kind of manisfestation.

Point taken... but I still don't think Harper was a manifestation:)

Tim said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
maven said...

By the time I get on you guys have hit on all of the main points! Good work!

I'm going with Widmore not being the Economist. Ben would know who it was if it was Widmore. More likely Abbaddon.

I'm also going with Juliet reminding Ben of his mother and not Annie. Mother was blond, Annie was brunette.

It's confusing where Harper came from to tell Juliet Ben's message. Did she go with Alpert's group to the Temple? She wasn't with Ben in New Otherton. Was this something Ben knew was going to happen, and pre-arranged it with Harper? I agree that Harper really had it in for Juliet, and might be setting her up herself.

Funniest line re rabbit: This didn't happen to have a number on it! LOL

Locke needs to stop letting himself be so manipulated by Ben. He definitely seem lost and abandoned by the island...so much so that he has to trust Ben again.

Yeah for Find815 clues! And that surveillance tape of Widmore was so reminiscent from TLE and Mittelwerk's tapes of Alvar's garage.

Juliet sure knows how to get into quadrangles! Goodwin/Harper/Ben/Juliet and Jack/Sawyer/Kate/Juliet!. I wonder if Kate saw that kiss at the end?

So Goodwin was setting up the Tempest to disperse gas? That's why he got a chemical burn? Ben's overall plan is preparing for a war with Widmore's people? How did Dan and Charlotte know that this station was set for gas? From the guy Widmore beat up in Ben's tape? Where did Dan get a map to the Tempest? Must be from someone who has been on the island before.

Memphish: I like your theory (that you will either disavow or not)! Widmore found out more about the island from the Ledger, and Ben is right, that he wants to exploit it for personal healing properties or to make it the new Lourdes.

Funny scene with Ben's "dinner party". "I have to get the ham before it dries out." LOL Apparently, everyone knows about the List.

It is pretty confusing at this point as to whether Charlotte/Dan or Ben are the good guys. From Ben's point of view, his the good guy protecting the island from people who want to exploit it for their own purposes.

Well, that's it for now.

memphish said...

Tim -- Ben was still reading Valis by Philip K Dick. It was the book Ben gave him earlier. Despite not being thrilled with Locke's literature selections, both times he's gone ahead and read them anyway.

My take on The Tempest is that it somehow uses those chemicals which can burn you to power the Island. Goodwin says something to Juliet about 1 false move and I could kill us all. Goodwin was using the example to demonstrate to Juliet that Ben trusted him not to do that. Sounds like it wouldn't take much to go from power to death.

Maybe this power source is what Widmore is after. That makes more sense to me than running an Island Disneyland/Lourdes.

I wonder how Ben explained to Locke how he got that tape of Widmore. In one sense you could argue he himself made it. He said I taped over the game. Or another of his "people" could have uploaded the video to Mikhail and Ben taped over it? I hope Locke asked a lot more questions before he gave Ben his clean clothes. And was it Juliet's house Ben was heading into? Locke is in Ben's.

Ange said...

maven said...
I'm also going with Juliet reminding Ben of his mother and not Annie. Mother was blond, Annie was brunette.


I tend to agree.

Also, after I slept on it, I still think that when Juliet spoke to Harper the first time that it was Smokey.

memphish said...

One thing on the Harper is she real debate -- at the time of Goodwin's death she was still alive. Ben said as much when he took Juliet to see his bloated ashy gray body. Ick! I don't see her being part of the storm the beach being led by Ryan team, so my guess is the she's with Dr. Eyeliner. I'm thinking she may have projected herself there though like Wet Walt.

You can see on those certificates in her office that one refers to "Experimental Social Psychology Society" and another is a Certificate of Recognition from The Hanso Foundation.

memphish said...

Great line from TV Squad's recap: In Ben's mind, hiring someone to do strange fertility research is a form of calling romantic dibs.

How does Charlotte know about the Purge? That wouldn't have been in the ledger. Strengthens my Charlotte is a child of Dharma theory.

Wait a minute -- Harper had a certificate from Hanso? Wouldn't Hanso and Ben's group be diametrically opposed? Would Ben be able to hire away a Hanso person and still let her display her awards? Is Harper some sort of mole? Head spinning!

memphish said...

From TV Squad: Goodwin's wife was named Harper Stanhope. Stanhopea is a genus of the orchid family.

If you want to get started on your Tempest theories, begin here.

Sayid'sgirl said...

tim said:
I don't think the gas was powering the island...


I have to agree. I guess my confusion was that I took Goodwin saying he worked at the power plant.
That place probably isn't a power plant. But what is it and what is it's purpose.
And I'm still not convinced they were trying to make it safe.

codysmom
Harper didn't seem like a manisfestation like Walt did. But she disappeared awfully quickly.

It makes more since that Juliet reminds him of his mother than Annie because unless he saved her from the purge I doubt anyone knows what she looks like. Having said that,I think it's Annie that Juliet reminds him of. I know, I know.

Sayid'sgirl said...

...Goodwin saying he worked at the power plant as the truth. Is what that should say. I was rushing cause it was time to take my daughter to school.

I guess Goodwin was lying. Duh :)

Lost 2010 said...

Now this one - I liked. Really liked with no reservations - whew!

I really thought someone else would draw this analogy but I don't see it above -

Harper tells Juliet that Goodwin will get hurt because of Ben. And my mind immediately went to David, Bathsheba, and Uriah.

Goodwin died because Ben is obsessed with Juliet. Much like Uriah died because David was obsessed with Bathsheba. In almost exactly the same way - they were sent to the front lines.

Now David was a good man - who was even cited as being a man after God's own heart. But he had to suffer for his sins - losing the son he conceived with Bathsheba - ending up in sackcloth and ashes.

Ben has definitely suffered since he sent Goodwin to the front lines to be killed. He even lost his only child because of it - Alex.

So, I'm not counting Ben out just yet.

bigdog said...

Best line - did this rabbit have a number on it.

I am thinking that just like ben has a mole off the island, there is a mole on the island as well. the freighter people know where everything is.

i think ben is a good guy to the island. and i dont believe charlotte or dan at all. those too basically destroyed the self destruct button on the island.

Lost 2010 said...

I almost forgot - stopping the power station was close - but close only counts in horseshoes.

memphish said...

If Dan and Charlotte were trying to help, why didn't they tell Jack, Juliet, Kate, etc. who are holding Ben hostage and clearly are not allied with them. I don't understand why they are being so secretive.


It's starting to feel like Pirates of the Carribbean - you can't trust any of them - they're all pirates. Technically, all Charlotte would know about the 815 crowd is that while in their company they've been - ambushed, shot at, captured, traded like pawns, screamed at, and manipulated. And Jack - well Jack seems to be in charge of this conniving bunch of hoodlums - I can see not trusting him. But I don't trust any of them at this point - Ben, Jack, Locke, Charlotte, Dan, Sayid??? Heck, even Aaron's starting to lie - calling Kate Mommy. :)

Amused2bHere said...

Good Morning LoCos!

Too creepy, but I tend to agree too that Ben's possessiveness of Juliet is because of her resemblance to his mom, not Annie.

Ew.

So exactly what did Dan do to render the toxic gas inert? Was there a neutralizing agent in the next tank? Did they introduce one when they got there and just needed to release it, or raise the temperature to a certain degree for activation?

I think the Economist is someone we haven't met yet.

I like that Sawyer and Hurley are becoming best friends. And that Sawyer doesn't know about his mega millions...

Why does Widmore want the Island? Maybe he wants to use its powers to go to the future and get a peak at a Sports Almanac, just a few key games' outcomes, that's all...

bigdog said...

after thinking about how obessed ben is with mothers dying at birth, i would lean towards juliette looking like bens mom.

I so want anyone but michael to be the man on the boat.

for the O6 - jack, kate, sayid, hurley... are they counting aaron as one of them?

memphish said...

Big Dog, officially we aren't supposed to know if Aaron is or is not one of the 6 yet. There are spoilers out there if you want them, but it will only be 1 more week until we all find out.

A2BH, Sawyer does know about Hurley's millions. He read the note Hurley put in the bottle about leaving his money to his mom. Whether or not he believes it, that's another question.

bigdog said...

Definately do not want to be spoiled. the season has been very enjoyable watching with fresh eyes.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

memphish: I like how they're tossing around the words other and hostile tonight.

I noticed that too! I think that's seeding for future revelation.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

One other thing: I think the flashback/realtime parallel that means most is Ben's little pee-dance walk when he is both getting what he wants and has it over on someone.

Seriously. He played Locke. Widmore is a bad guy, yes, but I think his true role was twisted by Ben to get Locke to do what he wanted. Plus, he's out of the basement.

Ben's jaunty walk and cheery "see you at dinner!" were eerily (and yet comically) similar to his mood as Juliet came to dinner with her metric ton of dinner rolls.

memphish said...

What do you think about this idea I'm taking from Steve at Magic Lamp:
I wonder if Juliet ends up making a deal with Ben to spare Jack, if she’ll stay? Is she the reason he wants to go back? To save her from Ben?

I can see Juliet making this sort of deal for Jack. I can't see Jack letting her if he knows it. Also I don't think Jack wants to go back for Juliet because off Island he's still in love with Kate, not Juliet.

bigdog said...

personally i dont think jack knows who he loves. i think he loves whichever one of them he thinks needs him at that moment.

kyle - the more the shows go on the more i like ben's chatacter. it was said last week as a joke but he kasier sose. every seen he is in is a mind game and he seems to win a lot.

memphish said...

Bigdog, I think you're right about Jack.

Vozzek's recap is up on DarkUFO. He/she reminds us Smokey scanned Juliet last season and that could be why Harper appears. Frankly I'd sort of forgotten that.

rubygreeneyes said...

bigdog said: personally i dont think jack knows who he loves. i think he loves whichever one of them he thinks needs him at that moment.

I agree. I was always confused when Jack kissed Juliet first and then told Kate he loved her the same day. And I have to admit, I know I'm in the minority here, but I REALLY don't want Jack to love Juliet. Even though Kate wears on my nerves sometimes, I'm a "Jate" girl. I think it stems from my obsession with Charlie on Party of Five.

Lost 2010 said...

bigdog - I think you're right - Gives him a lot in common with Kate when you think about it. LOL

memphish said...

Doc Jensen recap is up.

Dennis said...

maven said... I agree that Harper really had it in for Juliet, and might be setting her up herself.

I think the flashback of Ben putting Goodwin in harms way is what is going on here with Juliet's mission. The thing we don't really know is if Harper was real, and if she is, was she really givings Ben's orders, or her own for revenge.


Sayid'sgirl said... And I'm still not convinced they were trying to make it safe.

I do think they were trying to make it safe, but only to protect themselves from Ben. You could say it was Ben's 'nuclear' option in the war against Widmore, but not anymore.


bigdog said... I am thinking that just like ben has a mole off the island, there is a mole on the island as well. the freighter people know where everything is.

I don't think there is a mole. They got thier information from Ben's man that Widmore captured.


Lost 2010 said... Heck, even Aaron's starting to lie - calling Kate Mommy. :)

LOL :)


bigdog said... after thinking about how obessed ben is with mothers dying at birth, i would lean towards juliette looking like bens mom.

I'm not sure why every one thinks Ben is obsessed with his mom. He never knew his mom. I think a much more reasonable explanation is that he was in love with someone that looked like Juliet and she died on the island because she got pregnant.


bigdog said... I so want anyone but michael to be the man on the boat.

I second that emotion.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Good morning, all!

I was just chatting with my co-worker and he brought up an excellent bit of symbolism that I had never even considered. In the last couple of episodes, we've seen Locke killing chickens and rabbits, always with the fresh blood on his hands. Is this perhaps a sign that Locke has or will have some more significant blood on his hands at some point?

Erich said...

A couple of things Memphish wrote got me thinking:

I like the idea that Widmore set up the race around the world as a way to secretly search for the island. Who knows? Maybe he's known ever since Desmond disappeared the general location of the island. He just needed to send in the freighter, and Naomi, to "break in."

Memphish, when you were talking about Harper being a manifestation (which I absolutely think) that she's "projecting" from wherever she and Alpert, etc. are hiding, I started thinking about Taller Ghost Walt and wondering whether he might not be with them as well...maybe at the Temple? What if the Temple is either an ancient structure with properties that include giving people the ability to project, or maybe it's just a nickname for a facility with technology that allows the same kind of things.

If Walt were still with the Others, it might explain Michael's "willingness" to help Ben as his man on the boat (which I also absolutely believe).

memphish said...

I like it Erich. I add my voice to the throng clamoring for something more than Michael being on the boat.

DiggityDirge said...

Tim said...
Sorry, catching up on comments.

Ded, per your Mittelwerk comment – and this has probably already been said – but I suspect Mittelwerk = The Economist.

I really don't think we will ever see the ARG established characters (Rachel, Sam, Mittelwork, etc) play a role in the main LOST story. Just my gut feel.

Lost 2010 said...

They also had that piece of paper that said 'Don't trust the captain' - I'm kind of resigned to Michael being Ben's man on the boat so now I'm wondering - exactly who is the captain.

DiggityDirge said...

maven said...
I'm also going with Juliet reminding Ben of his mother and not Annie. Mother was blond, Annie was brunette.

That whole theory seems so weird to me. Ben never really knew his mother. She was killed at birth. His only real knowledge of her is pictures and her appearing to him as an aparation. How did he get so in love with mom.

Ben seemed interested in having a romantic relationship with Juliet to me. That's why he was so mad about Jules going out with Goodwin.

bigdog said...

diggitydirge "I really don't think we will ever see the ARG established characters (Rachel, Sam, Mittelwork, etc) play a role in the main LOST story. Just my gut feel."


although that would be great if it was rachel blake taking the video footage. i didnt follow the 815 ARG was that video of windmore from that??

DiggityDirge said...

Probably a dumb observation, but anyway....So far it seems the flash forward mechanism is being reserved for the 6 and Ben, while the flash backward mechanism is being used for people who don't make it off the island and and the freightees. A bit of speculation by me, but:

Hurley, Kate, Jack, Sayid - flash forward.

Jules, the freightee four, and Dez - flash backward.

Just an observation and probably an obvious one at that.

DiggityDirge said...

bigdog-

The vid of Widmore was fresh. Although we have seen some great cross over from the 815 ARG (mostly clues from the hunt games) we haven't seen any character cross over yet.

Melissa_Lossa said...

diggity - I think that the reason Ben is obsessed with mom is BECAUSE he never knew her. His father was a jerk, so he probably has an idealized vision of his mother, and how differently his life would have turned out if she was still alive.

I think this is also why he's obsessed with pregnant women on the island, to the detriment of whatever else he's supposed to be doing. He's trying to find a way to atone for what happened to his own mother. If he can get a woman who looks just like his mom to solve the problem, so much the better.

Sayid'sgirl said...

memphish said:
A2BH, Sawyer does know about Hurley's millions. He read the note Hurley put in the bottle about leaving his money to his mom. Whether or not he believes it, that's another question.

At the time he read the note he didn't know who it was because Hurley had signed it Hugo. Of course Sawyer knows Hurley's real name now but do you think Sawyer's put that together yet?

Melissa_Lossa said...

Oh, and I have added The Tempest to the book club list. I haven't read it for a couple of years, but I remember it being kind of an odd example of Shakespeare. It was written around the same time as A Winter's Tale, which is also a really odd play (and his last).

My English degree is failing me, but I seem to remember that these two plays were considered to be in a category by themselves, neither comedies or dramas. Wikipedia lists them both as "romances," but I'm thinking they were called something else.

Looks like I'm going to have to bust out the complete works! I'll be interested to refresh my memory of The Tempest.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

Not that I am eager for this season to be over (far from it!), but I'm really looking forward to the next season of the Book Club. Some good stuff in there, or at least really interesting and cerebral (VALIS, Invention of Morel, Tempest, etc.).

Will there be a hiatus edition of the Book Club?

Ellen said...

Good Morning Everyone!!
Did anyone notice in the enhanced "The Constant" last night, around 9'24" through 9'28", when Des is first brought into the sickbay, just before they locked him in, the pop-up was talking about the ship. It's actually a supply ship. The exact quote about the name of the ship was this:

"...the ship's real name is Kahala."

I wonder why they phrased it that way? Could it actually be the Helgus Antonius after all? If you look at the specs on Lostpedia (above), the ship was originally built in 2001, therefore it could easily have been modified for the helicopter for this particular voyage.

What do you guys think?
xxoo

Sayid'sgirl said...

diggitydirge said:
A bit of speculation by me, but:

Hurley, Kate, Jack, Sayid - flash forward.

Jules, the freightee four, and Dez - flash backward.

Just an observation and probably an obvious one at that.

With Des though you have to take the whole time travel into consideration. We did see Des's past but it was his past flashing forward. Not that I think he's going to be one of the O6 or get off the island. It's just with Des it hard to tell what you get.

DiggityDirge said...

Memphish,

I thought about your answer to my question about Widmore's motives last night. Good point about him having a thing for the sea. That didn't totally click with me. I think most of us beleive the reason Widmore is interested in the black rock/log book is because of the intel it gives him about the island.

But, doesn't the reason that Widmore finding the island is the only great thing he ever does kind of play into the thoery of commercializing the island? He has no apparent interest in rescuing the 815's, and how would finding it be great if he couldn't populrize the location as an island with "mystical properties." Keeping it for himself would be no good if no one knew. Being a humatarin for the world would be commercializing it. If you think about Lourdes or any of the other place the Virgin Mary has supposedly apeared, the immediate effect was commecialization. Influx of pople going there and revenue to the town.

The point that did stick with me is that he is a guardian of time, and finding the island would insure that no one else could use it to gain the time jumping power. I just don't see him as that nice of a guy though.

Sayid'sgirl said...

ellen
I haven't watched the enhanced version yet I record it and wath later.
As far as the name of the ship maybe alot of people were thinking it was the Christian 1 and TPTB wanted to make sure people knew that it wasn't. Just a guess.

Dennis said...

Lost 2010 said... They also had that piece of paper that said 'Don't trust the captain' - I'm kind of resigned to Michael being Ben's man on the boat so now I'm wondering - exactly who is the captain.

It looked like Sayid holding the sign, so the questions are
• Who is the captian?
• Why can't they trust the captian?
• Who Sayid showing the note to?
• Did Sayid make the note, or did someone leave that note for Sayid and he is just showing it to someone else, say Desmond?

maven said...

Morning!

I'm still going with Ben projecting Juliet as his mother and not Annie. Like Melissa_lossa said, just because you never grew up with your Mom, doesn't mean you don't love and fantasize about her. Remember, she came to him on the island...he knows what she looks like.

Some other thoughts looking at my notes:
Does Juliet know they're not going to be rescued when Sun asks her why she's working so hard on a shelter on the beach?

Those Whispers were sure creepy last night. Hope the audiophiles work hard on them for us!

I'm in the camp that Harper was really there. She could have been with Alpert's posse.

Why weren't there any DHARMA medical supplies in Juliet's medical offices? No DHARMA gauze?

Where did Dan get his map. It looks very rudimentary in the screencap. It doesn't seem to be from the journal. And the Team seems to know where everything is. Did they that info from Ben's man that Widmore beat up? Or do they have a "man on the island"?

When Ben told Locke that they have a common enemy who he reveals to be Widmore, would that imply that Locke has had some connection to Widmore, too?

The Ben crush on Juliet is so creepy. But the ham dinner scene, with Ben so giddy, and Juliet surprised that it's just the two of them was great. "I have to get the ham or it will dry out." LOL

So when Widmore looks up at the surveillance camera, does he know that Ben is spying on him. And how did Ben know that Widmore would drive up at that particular location? Does he have surveillance cameras in every possible place that Widmore would go?

There has to be more than the Resort/Lourdes angle for Widmore's motivation to control the island. Diggity: I agree with you that Widmore probably wants to control the time thing. The business/commercialization angle wouldn't be the kind of thing the show is about. Widmore has the money, now he wants all the power. He probably working with Dan to come up with a safe way to use the time shift properties of the island.

When Jack asks Kate why she didn't stay with Locke, she actually gave him a straight answer! A rarity on LOST!

I think that Goodwin was re-configuring the Tempest station to disperse the gas per Ben's instructions for the coming "war".

Charlotte and Dan might be good guys for disabling the gas and saving lives, but in the long run they are working for Widmore. So does that really make them the bad guys?

I don't think Future Jack is so upset about Juliet possibly still being on the island and that's why he wants to get back. Like some of you said, it's really Kate that he wants. He needs to go back for the "they" everyone like Charlie and Abbaddon are talking about.

I'm also resigned to Michael being the man on the boat. We all sound so disappointed in this, but remember, most casual viewers are going to be so surprised! LOL

DiggityDirge said...

Sayid's Girl said:

We did see Des's past but it was his past flashing forward.

I guess I see it as a flashback because the story centered around his past vs post island life like the others. Agreed there is some time travel/jumping inolved, but in flash forwards you see post island life. That was my take at least.

Lost 2010 said...

maven said...

When Jack asks Kate why she didn't stay with Locke, she actually gave him a straight answer! A rarity on LOST!


I think it's because she'd been hit on the head.

Ellen said...

Sayid's Girl- you could be right.
However, the specs for HA look eerily like the freighter! The only difference is the landing pads for 2 helicopters and no back tower. Size, weight,etc. all the same pretty much (at least from what we've seen). The Christiane I seemed to be a much smaller vessel. Don't know, just sayin'...
xxoo

Melissa_Lossa said...

ellen - I thought that the pop-up about the real name of the boat meant the real name in real life. I think at that moment, they were talking about the boat that the scenes are filmed on.

Kyle - I'm open to doing one book during the short hiatus if anyone else is. Maybe one of the books that we had to drop at the end of the last hiatus? I still have some questions for Carrie ready to rock!

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

With Widmore being established as a player, if not the Big Bad, I feel slightly more comfortable in theorizing that the freighter is the Helgus, or what will become the Helgus. But I'm not there yet.

And speaking of that coldcock to Kate's crown, what the hell?? She's suspcious of Charlotte and Daniel's motives, she knows Charlotte is armed, and yet when she is allowed to search the suspicious duffel of doom, she crouches down with her back to Charlotte!! Come on, Kate!

That had to be the dumbest thing in a series of dumb things that Kate has done, at least since getting caught by Tom and Pryce in the jungle.

Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...

melissa: Is there a reading list publicly available somewhere?

Melissa_Lossa said...

Kyle - Here's the Book Club List

You can also find it by searching for "Lost Community Book Club" on Amazon's Listmania.

All of the new books from this season are near the bottom. If anyone sees something that I've missed, please let me know!

Melissa_Lossa said...

Don't you just want someone to tell Kate to go play quietly in the corner? She's just been making things worse for everyone lately.

And I loved last night, when Kate took Charlotte and Dan into the Tempest to show her what they were up to, and Jack was just like "Meh. I'm good."

memphish said...

Maven asked: Does Juliet know they're not going to be rescued when Sun asks her why she's working so hard on a shelter on the beach?

Given that Juliet knows Frank knows she wasn't on the plane, I'd guess Juliet has probably downgraded her chances of rescue. She doesn't want to worry Sun though. Also, we saw she's good at predicting rain in Left Behind, so maybe that was all she was preparing for.

Maven also said: Where did Dan get his map. It looks very rudimentary in the screencap. It doesn't seem to be from the journal. And the Team seems to know where everything is. Did they that info from Ben's man that Widmore beat up? Or do they have a "man on the island"?

That was a very strange map. It was unclear to me how they were supposed to use it to navigate. I would guess though that it had to be created post-Dharma for the Tempest locale to be on it. I guess it could be a ledger era map that someone added Dharma locales to.

Back to Widmore's motivation and the time cop angle. I don't think it's so much he's trying to harness the time thing for profit. It's more the case that it is his path to be here at this time. (Maybe he has regular Mrs. Hawking consultations.) Widmore values courage and greatness. I think his connection to the Island is something that is designed to validate his personal courage and greatness.

I really discount the mere profiteering angle. There are lots better ways to make lots more money lots more simply than this. Ben used the Virgin Mary example just to appeal to Locke and what Locke thinks he understands about the Island. It's like the Box Metaphor.

Lost 2010 said...

dennis - If the captain from your links is the captain, then I think we've solved who Desmond's friend is on the boat. :)

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