This post is for Comic-Con related discussions only. Since we are considering this information to be SPOILERS, we want to make sure everyone is fairly WARNED: If you do not want any spoilers, DO NOT ENTER :)
Thursday, July 26, 2007
Comic Con
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Here is the updated reading list for the 
305 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 305 of 305remember how ben had all the hydra camera going to all differnt locations, but the pearl just had the swan camera on, i think that backs up the theory that they shut all the other stations down ,but the swan, we never really found out the purpose of the arrow either did we. Something i think about is that it seems that radzinsky did all the film edits, but he had a question mark for the pearl, yet ben had knowledge of the pearl, because that was where he and his dad were going during the purge. So radzinsky may have really been dharma or as the looking glass ben didnt spill all his dharma secrets to the others...i bet the peral didnt always empty its messages into the middle of nowhere or maybe that was the point. Beside all the other Kelvin stuff that didnt add up, why would he take the failsafe key with him when he was gonna sail away or try to convince desmond to go with him, if he didnt want the swan shit to hit the fan. Perhaps to the reason they killed the pilot so quick was they knew if there was gonna be a wormhole type time quake like happened to desmond they didnt wanna chance the pilot going back with pre-cog skillz cause he might avoid going a 1000 miles off course
I like your idea 2Costa that the real mission of The Orchid may be in a hidden room like in The Staff. Perhaps they didn't just have the Orchid people lie to their friends and colleagues but the station from the outside looked like it would be a horticultural station as well. Then you pull the lever and ta-da rabbits appearing left and right.
To that end, I wonder how much any of the people alive on the Island now could know about this Casimir effect? Did Ben and the Hostiles purge all the Orchid workers without knowing what the true purpose of the Orchid was. That seems to be true of the Swan station. Maybe they don't understand the Magic Box effect anyomore than Locke (or I) do.
it seems to me that ben knew everything as well as klugh and mikhail, except about the looking glass, cause the schematics in the flame had info about all the sations on the island. I have a feeling that ben is privy to the timeline, down to giving the gun to alex that karl gave to the 815'ers and i beleive that was the gun that jin used that was wildly misfiring, if his gun had worked then ben never would have had the chance to spare jin/bernaRD/sayid and thus create some goodwill with the 815'ers. Why else would ben go to the radio tower unarmed and let jack take him captive,its the same logic that had locke kill naomi in cold blood but let jack make his call anyway. On some level ben and locke wanted jack to make the call
seems to me that the shift that they talk about in the orchid may be be the time perameter of the worm hole, either its eight minutes in the past or future, as has been mentioned the rabbit is among its past or future self for eight minutes or 20 somethings
i dont know if i mentioned it but did aNYONE NOTICE THAT THE TWO NUMBERS WE HAVE SEEN on the rabbits are core numbers of the valanzetti equation, 8 and 15 and the room where we first saw the god loved jacob quote was room 23, maybe these are their attempts to change the core values of the equation
and if the docart doc is real it may be alvars attempt to shed some light for us
at first i thought they were just scientificcally numbered 1 thru 15 but maybe its the valanzetti tie-in
Yes 2costa, your pic was great!
I know maven, that bridge collapse is very bad. I don't think we've seen anything like that since the double-deck highway collapse in SF during that quake in the 80s.
have we only seen bunnies 8 and 15 so far? Did Alex's dinner bunny have a number on it?
Ethanhaaswasright.com
click yes.
ya i was thinking that maybe walts doppleganger is the same as the second bunny. Maybe it would be bad if regular walt came in contact with backwards walt. Maybe the second bunny is just an astral projection of the first, or perhaps the second bunny is smokey and for all intents and purposes smokey is the antimatter copy. I also noticed that to the right there is a whole wall of bunny cages. I also thought that considering all the stuff on the shelves is rearrainged before the lightbulb and all that that this might be like Ben's con of sawyer with the rabbit. Maybe it was a ruse devised by dharma to convince the veiwer of the importance of the swan clock or the power of the island to duplicate. Yet a total fiction and thats why they show hallowax saying he is not an actor he is a scientist to make us beleive that this really happened. As i pointed out before finished dharma videos have thew snappy intro and outro. This was obviously not all the way edited to make it seem legit. The finished film would have the nuttiness taken out and thats where i think the jacob edits come in. It feels to me like an other got a hold of this to indoctrinate other others. It makes the dharma guys seem like fools that cant control the island. And much as the swan had key edits to keep people in the dark about the island's unique properties, yet the dharma original is more forthcoming. I think this is definetly an others video.
I just caught the tail end of an episode of Krypto the Superdog on Boomerang and it made me think of LOST. Yeah, I know, what doesn't.
Anyway (ding), somehow the iguana had made copies of himself and they were running rampant in the lab. Krypto (Superman's dog) solved the problem by "reversing the polarity since they weren't real only made of energy in the first place" and they all disappeared. I have no idea whether or not this applies to the bunnies at the Orchid, but it struck me given our matter/anti-matter discussions and the idea of keeping the bunnies apart.
So would Walt #2 be wet and talk backward?
it doesnt seem logical that dharma would keep this blooper reel around cause it makes them look like fools. plus it ends with candle acting like nothing ever happened. So it would reason that the real orchid film would have the intro then candle going into his thing and ending with no drama .
I think the story on this film though is that it's not something that exists on the Island. They said at Comic Con it was found in a building in Narvik, Norway that was supposed to be destroyed. In The LOST Expierience Narvik is where Alvar Hanso is being held by Mittlewerk. So one implication could be this was a film in production but that was never finalized, perhaps because of the Incident.
So do we think it might be Alvar's home where he meets Rachel that is the building that is supposed to be destroyed? Any ideas on why that might be?
to go with my con idea just because there is a 15 written on both bunnies doesnt mean they are the same, this is a cheap way for dharma to make the swan person really think his job is important. think about it if there were no numbers on these bunnies it wouldnt seem strange at all not to mention where the bunny appears is conveniently above the camera veiw. Ben learned all his tricks from dharma so the number 8 bunny con could be along the same lines and all it would take is some black spray paint and a couple number stencils. if it was cloning then the second bunny would have no number on it. To me this is like ben locke and jacob. Ben obviously didnt want to kill locke, but he wanted locke to think jacob was real and ben would kill to protect that. Ben shooting locke cause he heard jacob, was meant to make locke beleive in jacob, cause even after he heard jacob and saw all the chaos he wasnt convinced.
the way that ben was all proud about conning sawyer shows me that there was a lot of conning in the old dharma. For all this magical crazy stuff on the island very little of it is ever captured on film. i dont know memphis but i have a strong suspicion that alvar will be a part of the show or mittlwerk. It would be a big up to the hardcore fans to have the guys from TLE. As i said before they have given us a few nods in season 3 like mr. paik talking about how dharma is pissed that their equipment is late referring to the helgus i beleive
Maybe the "incident" happened when Candle was holding a bunny and it came into contact with its double--blammo, bunny blows up and takes Candle's arm with it.
Just speculatin'...
I like it a2bh. Can someone explain to me simply why when matter and anti-matter meet there would be an explosion? Why is there something left over when they cancel out?
I always thought it was residual energy discharged as heat due to the reaction, that conservation of energy law or something...
way above my head
memphish
Maybe wet Walt came from the plane that Naomi said was found in the ocean with no survivors.
The Comic Con Official Lost Podcast is on the ABC website. My iTunes link is messed up, at least mine is, but you can download it directly from ABC's LOST site under Extras and then Podcasts.
Maven posted a link in the next thread.
Some interesting ideas about The Orchid from Eye M Sick.
I always assumed (probably wrongly, and I've never bothered to look it up) that the matter/antimatter cancellation problem was like 1 + (-1) = 0 , but on a more complicated level of physics course. :-)
I guess that it's time to get a better understanding of that now! I like the idea of the Dr.'s arm blowing up, heehee. POW!!!!
That was my thought about matter/anti-matter too Capcom. That's why I'm wondering why there would be an energy expulsion.
Maven -
I'm in Minneapolis, but alright. At this point, I think only 8 have perrished, but more victims are bound to be found. It's rather sad.
Just popping in from lurkdom to say "hey".
Oh no Olerica, up to eight now? Wow. Welcome back to TLC any way.
Yeah Memphish, I still didn't look it up yet, but it probably has to do with properties of opposing energy exchange or transference, or something like that. At least that would be the cheezy Scifi channel movie explanation for it. :o)
Hey, Olerica! Long time no see here! Glad to hear you're okay, but our thought are with your fellow Minnesotans!
Hi All! Here's something for your Youtube enjoyment (since Chucklez hasn't given any vids in a while) that I found on a good new LOST blog called "Lost is Gain". I just had to pass this along in case y'all haven't seen it yet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fVDGu82FeQ
Apparently the toddler accidently hurt his li'l bro and is telling his dad about the bad situation. It's adorable. :-)
Speaking of babies, how are Baby Admin and Baby Thrasher coming along so far? We hope that all is well with our Littlest LoCos so far! :-X
::sadness:: no baby Thrasher, was lost early on. :::
But we still have Baby Admin and Grandbaby Maven, right? Anyone else?
Hi all. Just wanted to let you know I have a new Bullet Points blog up examining the whole Orchid video situation. Feel free to leave comments.
Be warned it's long (but this is why I'm blogging stuff these days rather then putting it all in comments).
Hope your all doing well. :)
ORCHID POST
Morning all! Yes, Amused, there's still Granddaughter Elizabeth coming Sept 20th! How's Baby Admin doing?
And today's our 35th Anniversary! Unbelievable. The best gift my hubby gave me: We're now watching LOST together! Yesterday we watched 6 episodes of S2 (up to "Maternity Leave")! Yeah!
BTW: Is there a way to hook up an episode from the computer to watch it on TV?
Checking out your blog now, Fenris!
Oh gosh, so sorry to hear about Baby Thrasher. XXXXXOOOOO Hope that all the other babies are doing well.
Nice to hear from you Fenris, and will check out your Orchid blog.
Congrats on your anniversay Maven.
Happy Anniversary Maven and hubby!
We love to hear from you Fenris, and we never mind your comments. I have enjoyed your blog, and I check it out from time to time. Thanks for letting us know about a new post.
Long-time lurker, first-time poster. I saw this in Yahoo News today and thought it was interesting to see LOST science in a real-world application.
Casimir Effect
Maybe we'll see some levitating bunnies in Season 4.
Thanks for the link ltlmz and welcome to the board. I hope you'll post more often. That article's very interesting even though I mostly don't understand it.
EW has an interview with Harold Perrineau. Maybe Jeff Jensen isn't far behind.
Doc Jensen debunks casting and scheduling rumors; discusses The Fly as it might relate to Jacob; and discusses the Orchid video covering numerous ideas that we've covered here like it's link to The Prestige, time traveling doppelganger's meeting, it being a con, and the Orchid really being the Swan. It's definitely worth a read.
memphish... thanks for the link. And you're right, it's definitely worth the read.
Thanks for the link memphish
I like that Doc had a similar theory to mine that the Orchid and Swan stations were the same or at least linked in some way.
This is part of what I said in a previous post.
I've been thinking about the Orchid video. I'm thinking the Swan was originally the Orchid. The Swan was originally constructed as a laboratory where scientist could work to understand the unique electromagnetic fluctuations emanating from this sector of the island. Not long after the experiments began however there was an incident and since that time the following protocol has been observed.
My theory that The Orchid became the Swan after the incident has a flaw though. The Swan is station 3 and The Orchid is station 6.
I liked the way he explanied how station 3 could have become station 6.
Memphish - thanks for the article. Good stuff. :) I'm intrigued by the idea of time travel, which I hadn't really considered. That makes the most sense to me, especially if the Orchid and the Swan were related (since Des was in the vicinity of the Swan when he time traveled).
We've always assumed that pushing the button released some sort of electromagnetic pressure that built up each 108 minutes. But what if it's actually a time anomaly? What if the incident was some sort of disruption caused by their time travel experiments? That could explain why the time increment of 108 minutes is so exact - you have to reset the time loop before it can conclude. Otherwise, the incident will happen again.
I like this better than the Prestiget theory, especially when you take into consideration that the movie version changes the outcome of the "Transported Man" illusion.
****SPOILER ALERT FOR THOSE OFYOU PLANNING TO READ OR SEE THE PRESTIGE (BOTH OF WHICH I HIGHLY RECOMMEND BECAUSE THEY ARE BRILLIANT)****
In the movie, the machine used in the illusion splits the magician into two versions of himself. One is transported to his desired location, and the other stays where he started. The left-behind version drops through a hole in the floor and is drowned in a water tank below the stage.
However, in the book, the left-behind version is already dead at the conclusion of the illusion. The body, frozen in its final pose, drops through the hole and is collected later by the magicians crew. The bodies (referred to in the book as the prestige materials, which I found especially creepy) are stored in an underground bunker beneath the magician's house.
The book's ending would disprove the Prestige theory as far as the rabbits go, as they are both alive in the film.
melissa_lossa
When I searched Casimir Effect there were references to the theroy that it could create faster than light travel,which is pretty much time travel. I like your thoughts that the 108 minutes could be resettting a time anomaly.
I didn't read your spoiler info because that's a movie I'd like to see and haven't yet. Thanks for putting a spoiler tag on it.
Melissa_Lossa, is this your idea, when the button hits 108, the Casimir effect kicks in causing matter to move (as evidenced by the moving we saw the 2 times the button wasn't pushed) in order to open the wormhole.
I just had an OMG moment. Supposedly the hieroglyphics spelled out underworld. Suppose when don't push the button the wormhole opens to the underworld and brings back the dead, so Flight 815 really did crash; they really are dead; and the ones who survived to live for at least some time on the Island was the ones who did/didn't die before Desmond entered the numbers and pushed the button shutting the wormhole back.
I'm not sure I even follow that, so good luck to the rest of you.
The problem is I don't know what that means in terms of what happened with the failsafe key and Desmond's apparent trip back and forth through time that occurred then or why Flight 815 would crash near Bali (which is not near where the Island should be unless the pilot was lying the whole time) or how DI or Ben's people manage to get to and from the Island, or Desmond, or Rousseau. Or how Jack and Kate leave.
What if Naomi's people are the people drawn through the wormhole during the Purpling? What if they're dead to?
Hey all! Long time no post! I'm woefully behind on my book list reading. One of these days I'll catch up...
Verrrry interesting potential casting news up on tvguide.com (SPOILER WARNING HERE):
It seems Kristen Bell (aka. Veronica Mars) is being considered for a new fourth season role. If any of you were huge Veronica Mars fans, like I was (sniff...), this is good news of the "two great tastes go great together" variety!
Hey erich. Yeah, Ask Ausiello had something about it. Very spoilery, so be forewarned.
It would be cool... the thing that's spoilery.
I like the idea that Naomi's people were drawn through when said purpling happened. It's a thought. A GOOD THOUGHT. I mean, what else TRAGIC happened when sky went all purple?
Did anyone post here, the report on DarkUFO that supposedly two Others, who weren't even at the beach in the raid, were killed in the raid according to TPTB?? It's kind of lame, if true.
I'm not saying anymore about it than that, in case someone thinks it's more spoilery than lame. :-) Check it out.
Capcom, it comes from the audio that was played at Comic Con that was alledgedly a piece about the Others from the S3 DVDs and it's Damon Lindeloff's voice that announces these deaths. I agree it is totally lame, and in fact, I've posted on the ABC message board for Damelton about it. Ooh, I hope Chris picks me. :)
Good for you Memphish. I can see if they were kidding around with a silly comment instead of saying that they just chose not to pursue that character anymore, like, "Uh, they were killed, yeah, that's the ticket!" But otherwise, it's kind of a weird thing to say, and frighteningly End-Of-X-Files kind of lame. :-[
Heheh, I just happened to think....if the Casimir effect happens in the electric field between two plates, maybe it really could be a Flux Capacitor! :o)
i think that naomis people were responding to locke pressing 77 on the computer. Naomis peeps are prolly hanso or mittleos coming to clean up the hostile mess. If you think about it if the others have a loose tie to dharma through mittleos bioscience then the 815'ers are the hostiles. So techiniacally when locke and kate and sayid took the flame it was the hoastiles taking over the communication station. part of the purge must have been ben prentending that he was still in control to the outside world
i mean in control of the remnants of dharma
Not really on subject, but I put a few pics up on my art blog a while ago but never mentioned it here.
I think Thrasher will like the newest two... lol
See ya guys around when things slow up... a lot.
link dedjezter???
2Costa, click on Ded's avatar which takes you to his profile. The blog link is at the bottom of the profile.
thanx memphis
i am an artist too dedjester and i liked your stuff a lot.
Then 2Costa, by all means leave a comment...
Good or bad it don't care. I am using this as a sample I direct future employers to and have been told it would be better if I had more comments, espesially those that don't always flatter the artist.
Everyone is welcome to comment, come one come all... lol
ThanX
DeD
That's a very good point about the 77 alarm alerting whomever is on their way, as to the whereabouts of the island, etc., 2costa!
The thing that has always bugged me about the whole 108 minute button and the fail safe key is this: If there was a failsafe key that would end whatever the problem was, and nullify the need for the 108 button, why not just do the failsafe in the first place? There must have been a reason that Dharma kept that station open and operational. Did they need whatever the anamoly was for some reason? If the anamoly was time-related, rather than just magnetism-related, that could make sense. Maybe they wanted to be able to jump back into the time stream when they needed to?
If the incidence created some kind of time disturbance, that could explain why/if island time runs differently from "real world" time. Maybe by turning the failsafe key, Des disrupted that time difference.
And this concludes your random thought for the day. :)
ya maybe the failsafe closed out tinkering with the timeline once and for all, until then they wanted to keep there options open. In stories of battles through timelines you can never truly win til you shut down your opponents ability to tinker with history, Maybe ben is happy with the timeline as it stands and wanted to end the tinkering thats why he convinced locke to stop pushing it
ya maybe the failsafe closed out tinkering with the timeline once and for all, until then they wanted to keep there options open. In stories of battles through timelines you can never truly win til you shut down your opponents ability to tinker with history, Maybe ben is happy with the timeline as it stands and wanted to end the tinkering thats why he convinced locke to stop pushing it
Right, there had to be a reason why the DI wanted to keep whatever they had going with the Swan "mechanism" operational. They figured out how to keep it in check after The Incident, with the added button pushing release procedure, and added the failsafe also in case the moment ever came where they would have to shut the entire apparatus down for whatever reason. It looks as if they hoped to keep using whatever was behind the containment wall to their advantage indefinitely, in spite of some near-catastrophic failure that happened, keeping it limping along with the 108 minute power dump/release.
What I don't understand, is why Ben would want Locke to believe that it was a joke, one way or the other. Unless, if keeping the Swan mechanism up and running increased the chance of someone outside finding and reaching the island, he might want it to be shut down. Clearly Ben entered the numbers, so why did he say things to make Locke think that it wasn't necessary? The fact that TPTB have recently stated that Ben getting caught by Danielle was unintentional has really clouded my mind on this point. Arg.
I soooooooo hope that TPTB let us know what this is all about, and don't let it remain in the category of "the many things that they don't have time to explain and we just have to accept" category. I hope that's one of the biggies that will get some explanation.
he didnt want to be near the swan when the you know what hit the fan and as far as we know bn didnt know about desmond being there with the failsafe, he seemed surprised when he found out about desmonds sailboat, buy we do know that ben had camera access to the swan so like ive said all along ben is still in control his pan is still working perfectly and he didnt want to chance going back within his liftime as desmond did and messing up the present that he likes. Ben reminds me of someone that is a leader of a terrorist cell that directs others to do the suicide missions because he is too important to the cause. If Ben is indeed tied to hawkings as i think, they made desmond do the failsafe right as he had. it would reason that the only person that travels back is the person in the failsafe tunnel.Instead of someone that would have the balls to make their own "course corrections". In a way desmond is like locke where they can always depend on his cowardess to foward their plan, just as they always use locke as their weakest link. It was only towards the end of season 3 that desmond started really shucking what the universe wanted to make his own future.
Oh! I just had a brainwave! What if time on the island hasn't been moving forward very quickly because of the Swan? What if every time someone enters the code and pushes the button, time for the whole island resets? That could explain why Richard doesn't age - he's living the same time over and over again.
Obviously, SOME time must be passing. However, if we assume that the island story is taking place during our present day (or close to it) then that means that the Losties have experienced almost three months to our three years. In releasing such a massive time burst, Desmond was in the right place to snap much farther back than the 108 minutes.
I admit, there are some major flaws in this thinking: a) It would explain why Richard does not age, but it doesn't explain why Ben DOES (he wasn't born on the island?) b) Desmond left for his race around the world three years ago (roughly around September 2001). We know from Jack's flashback that this is accurate. However, Desmond also remembers being on the island for three years. So, he must have some kind of concept of "real world" time. Maybe Swan time follows the real world, but the rest of the island does not?
Now I'm confusing myself!
capcom - I agree that knowing that Ben did not intend to be caught throws a wrench in my logic. I've always assumed that Ben was intentionally caught because he wanted to be taken to the Swan.
2costa - I also agree with your idea that Ben wanted them to stop pushing the button, but did not want to be there when the s**t hit the fan.
I wonder, what would be the difference between the failsafe key outcome, and the regular old "forgetting to push the button" outcome? Ben did not seem to account for the failsafe, so he may have been looking for a different result. If the 108 button was keeping Richard from aging, maybe this was a power play on Ben's part - if he takes away that power from Richard, he takes away the one reminder that Ben's not really a native of the island.
I don't think that Ben was really watching the Swan before the Losties took over. As far as he knew, it was just Kelvin doing his thing in there. Ben did not seem to be aware that Des has ever arrived, so there was no reason for him to watch him. I wonder how far back that negligence goes. Did Ben know that Radzinsky was dead? Which leads me to another question: Is Radzinsky really dead? All we have to go on is that Kelvin said he was, and we know how reliable Kelvin was. Radzinsky just seemed to be too resourceful and calculating to off himself.
Okay, okay - I'll stop. :) This is what happens when I have a week where I'm too busy at work to post anything. My brain bursts as soon as I get a break!
Wow, you guys have such great ideas!
Of course, (she smacks her head with the "I-shudda-had-a-V8-slap) Ben did not want to be there when the whole thing melted down!!! It could have just been a very fortuitous thing that Ben was able to get in there after DR trapped him, to be able to do his needed dirty work on the station. And yikes! What if resetting the magnetic-contraption actually did make the island time reset in some way or another every 108 minutes?! That's an incredible thought Melissa! And that could nicely explain how Walt aged after he and Mike left the island too. If Mike comes back to the show with grayish hair, there we go!
Another thought tho, what if Ben was able to watch Kelvin (and Dez), but did not know how to access the shut-up Swan after the take-over? The Swan might have been locked down if the Swan DIs were notified that Ben and Co. were on their way to gas them. That could explain the quarantine signs on the inside of the Swan (until of course the danger was over, and then it was just used to psych people into staying in, a la Kelvin with Dez). The Pearl cameras could still be operational all the time since the coup, but maybe Radzinsky and Kelvin had just made the Swan impenetrable to the Hostiles? That could also explain Kelvin's crappy attitude about not being able to leave. As if there was the assumption that someone would eventually be there from the DI to take over again after the coup, but it never happened. So whatever Swan person was remaining, would be left there forever waiting. Good reason for Rad to blow his brains out, if he actually knew that no one was coming and didn't tell Kelvin the truth about it.
P.S. I know that Ben did not know about the Elizabeth, but he may have just not known where Dez came from (if he saw him in the cameras), and did not know about his boat. If Ben knew of Dez and did not know where he came from, perhaps that explains the weird look that Juliet gave Dez when she first got to the beach...as in, "Oh, there's that mystery guy that Ben doesn't know anything about". Mabye.
I tend to believe that there were things going on in the Swan that Ben didn't know about. I mean, look at his reaction when the plane crashed - he immediately asked for reports on everyone aboard. However, he didn't even know that Des came to the island on a sailboat. I think there are two reasons that Des will turn out to be central to the story:
1) He's the wild card that Ben didn't count on. He had a boat that Ben didn't know about. He turned the failsafe key, which Ben didn't know existed. He has a very powerful/rich woman from the outside looking for him.
2) He's in tune with the time properties of the island. Des has traveled back in time once already, using the time fluctuations of the island, and now his brain is leaping ahead and allowing him to see the future.
Radzinsky was the original creator of the blastdoor map, which leads me to believe that he wasn't entirely in the know about the island either. I'm really interested to see if we find out the reason for that secret map in the Swan. Who was Rad hiding it from?
Also, how did the bits of film that Rad edited out of the orientation film end up on the other side of the island? I think there's more to that story that we haven't been told yet.
he always had access to the pearl so ben was watching kelvin and desmond and i think the whole world may have ended if the failsafe didnt get turned that is why kelvin was so un-slick when he left letting desmond see the tear in his suit then taking off his helmet within weyeshot of the swan so desmond would follow. I think kelvin was in cahoots with ben and maybe hawkins, he is one of the only ones to have a timeline reference before we saw desmonds timewalk, when he told sayid that his torture skill would come in handy one day. I think richards aging is more about the islands healing then the swan. As i said before there is a rwal simularity with locke and desmonds back stories the way they always take the easy way out or chicken out or too forgiving. I think hawkings might have been damage control to make sure desmond didnt f up the timeline. The island time not going as quick thing might explain why walt looked a lot older when he came to locke in the pit, if he indeed has been off the island or it might be a premonition of a future walt, remeber walt said not to go into the swan to begin with.
the ben not meaning to get caught thing doesnt bother me cause maybe he was going right to the swan for locke as he said before and rousseau intercepted him. There was no plus for ben to have danielle bring him in. He could have just wandered into the 815 camp and been captured. But i do think he was indeed headed for locke to convince him to not push the buttons thats why the lockdown happened right according to plan onto lockes legs so he would see the big question mark and go to the pearl and have his faith shaken even further. A lot of the whole list and season 2 finale was about getting back all the guns. this season they were down to like 2 or three guns, cause part of mikes mission was to bring all the guns with him to the trade for walt. Just like i said ben left his father vw for a future use there is areason they left the dynamite in the black rock, or else they would have gotten rid of it long ago, perhaps ben was the only other that new about it just as the true nature of the looking glass
i knew danielles backround story was false when she said she had never seen the others but only heard the whispers, cause when she brought ben she seemed like she had caught one before. As i said before bens master plan was to get rid of all of the others teeth(ytough guys/mittleos loyalists) so to speak so he could work with the 815ers next season. maybe the culmination of his twenty year plan to survive the purge
thats why i think its important that they said issabell was dead because she was the last hardcore other besides richard that ben set the stage to get rid of. Why else would ben tell alex about the moved up raid time knowing she was in kahoots with karl, cause he wanted the 815'ers to get warned and he gave them a bunk gun so that he could spare bernard jin sayid and gain favor with the 815'ers. Look at how it stands now ben is still alive with very little resistance from the others and he is worth more alive to the 815'ers cause of his immense knowledge of the island and dharma
Great posts yesterday guys. Lots to think about.
Hey, I've got a question about this idea of wormholes, the Orchid, Casimir effects, etc. I think I can understand how Desmond turning the failsafe may have allowed him to go through the wormhole to the past, but would it have been the case that 1 Desmond went through the wormhole and another stayed on the Island? Or did 1 Desmond go through the Island to the past and come back because how would getting hit in the head by a cricket bat create a wormhole you could travel back through? Is it the case that a Desmond that has already been on the Island in the 21st century is still running around England in the 20th century and could he meet up with his 1st self though I'm sure Mrs. Hawking is working to prevent that. Any ideas?
memphish - here are some thoughts on wormholes from someone who is not very good a science, but once did a report on them in high school. :)
As I understand wormholes, they are basically passageways that lead from one place to another or one time to another. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine had an example of a wormhole that traveled space. You could travel a vast distance in a short time, but you always started and ended in the same place. It's kind of like a shortcut, with no other on or off ramps.
I think that wormholes that travel time work the same way. You can go from one time to another, but there's only one now and only one then that you can travel to. If Des went through a wormhole, he would not leave a version of himself behind, he would just travel. Once back, he would run the risk of running into himself, as his "past" version would already be there. When he returned, having changed things, it wouldn't be to a separate future, it would be to the future that he had left, albeit one affected by any changes he made in the past. Does that make sense?
The perfect example that I've always heard is this: if you went back in time and killed your grandparents, you would never be born - but then who killed your grandparents? It's a perfect paradox.
I think that is the issue with the Orchid. If a future self and a past self come into contact, they could cause a paradox that would screw with the world as we know it.
Now Des is unique in that he traveled time AND space at the same time. He didn't appear on the island in the past. He also appears to have taken the place of his past self, rather than being in the same place at the same time. When Des woke up in the past, he had just fallen off a ladder, so past Des must have been on the ladder just before. These things make me doubtful that it was a wormhole that sent him back.
As for the Casimir effect, I leave that to much more capable hands. :)
Thanks M_L
Could it be the case that the way the Island works is that your "soul" for lack of a better word travels in time and space, but not your body? So in Desmond's case, his "soul" that had already been on the Island 3 years and had just turned failsafe key was now inhabiting his 20th century body along with his 20th century "soul" which would explain how he knew current day things and future things as well. Then the whack to the head sent the 21st century "soul" back to the 21st century body.
I think this is essentially what happened with Billy Sunday in Slaughterhouse 5. Time would slip and he'd been somewhere else in it with basically knowledge of everything before and after but only the will/ability to repeat history, but his physical body didn't go anywhere.
I like that idea about the soul traveling around. That also kind of fits in with the idea that Walt knew how to astral project. It's sort of the same idea, although Walt could only move his astral self through space.
Desmond's case can't be physical time travel could it because there would have to have been 2 of them in his and Penny's flat, right? Penny didn't say "oh, you're home early" or something like that and he didn't bump into himself lying there in the spilled paint. Maybe when he turned the key he opened a door like in the Drawing of the Three and he was inside his own head.
maybe that tied to charlie seemingly gaining the ability to swim, i saw a clip of when his dad made him jump in and someone says desmond in the background, maybe the time tptb went back and made it so charlie could swim for his looging glass mission
memphish - I like the Drawing of Three tie in. :) I definitely think that Des somehow either inhabited his own body in the past, or replaced his past version temporarily.
It seems that's a big theme in time travel, that two of the same beings/people cannot occuppy the same time. I suspect that explains the panic with the two rabbits. Perhaps they resumed shooting after the fist rabbit had departed on his time travel adventure, so they were back down to one rabbit.
One thing I find curious about that film: when they are trying to get the cameraman to stop filming, he clims that he was told to record everything. That seems odd to me, if he was just supposed to be shooting this orientation film. Why waste the film between takes?
2costa - I have to disagree with you about Charlie. I think he simply lied about being a good swimmer to Jack, so that they wouldn't have any qualms about letting him go. I think the flashback proves that Charlie and Des have crossed paths before, but that's all.
I have to say that I like the idea of multiple Desmonds! Not for the obvious reasons, heheh, but in the Orchid film sense. It would be hard to explain him not bumping into all of himselves, as y'all say, but it's still an interesting thought.
I also like what someone said before about his scientist friend possibly being one of the time-agent-lord-people, and trying to pretend that he didn't know what Dez was talking about.
Melissa_Lossa said: One thing I find curious about that film: when they are trying to get the cameraman to stop filming, he clims that he was told to record everything. That seems odd to me, if he was just supposed to be shooting this orientation film. Why waste the film between takes?
I think this may be because this wasn't the case of just making an orientation video. It was someone in Norway (remember that was the site Alvar was being held by TWM) wanting to see what would happen when the assistant set the setting at negative 9 or whatever that exchange is that occurs. This film wasn't kept on the Island; it was transported off the Island. I think that's why film everything.
i was just playing devils advocate i think charlie lied about not being able to swin in season one cause he was still on the junk then and was an egocentric coward
melissa_lossa
I've got to say I like your idea that Des is just traveling and takes the place of his past self. And as far as the Casimir effect the film says the unique properties of the island causes a kind of Casimir effect, so maybe this is the difference in the two. Of course that wouldn't explain why the good Dr. was so afraid of the bunnies getting to close. But I never got the feeling that there were more than one Desmond when he traveled back in time.
or maybe just for arguments sake the time(tptb) like hawkings might have switched out the other desmond so that the future desmond wouldn't see himself he was alone lying in the paint for a while right, that would be a perfect time to make the switch. thne kept the past desmond doped up til the future desmond left. but ifor the record i was one of the first to draw the slaughterhouse five simularities...
capcom, I'm with you - there is nothing wrong with multiple Desmonds! ;)
memphish - I agree with you on the film, that it was more than an orientation film. The good doc doesn't seem to be in on the plan, though. I wonder who hatched the scheme.
M_L, you might want to check out this blog post and the layers of liars comments that follow.
Hey, good stuff, memphish. I like the thinking there. Even if this Orchid film was meant to be the real deal, we know from the opening that the people watching have already been lied to about what they are doing. They were led to believe that they were working on some sort of botanical research, which is obviously not the case.
Your comments make me think even more of cults. The idea that they paint this wonderful hippy picture of utopia, and once you get there, you're a workman, and you can't leave. It's also very mysterious that we've never seen the DeGroots, other than occasional glimpses in the films. They didn't appear in Ben's flashback at all. I wonder if they were still on the island at that point, or somewhere else.
Good idea with the cults. They often have different levels of enlightenment as well where more and more and more of the secrets are revealed the more you advance. It reminds me of the religions created in Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land."
wow. Great comments, one and all. Much to think about.
keep it up!
Hey all, if anyone is interested in how fans have mapped out the island since Season3 there is an excellent blog that covers a lot of variations here:
http://lostmap.blogspot.com/
They are still working on getting the LG integrated into it I think. Yung23's latest map is there as well.
And, if any ambitious folks want to see how the Yung23 maps are made, go here:
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29143
:-)
One of the things we've been speculating about since Ben's flashback was why a mathematician (Horace) would work at the Arrow. I have 2 ideas.
First, I was listening to an old mid-S2 podcast and those people said that Damon said on an OLP that there are more than 1 Arrows scattered around the Island because they are supply facilities and that the Arrow isn't a Station like a station that would have an orientation film. So thought No. 1 is that Mathematician is a politically correct way of saying Inventory Control, or the guy who counts the beans, just like Roger Linus was a work man not a janitor.
The 2nd idea comes from the Orchid video. Maybe Horace like the Orchid workers was instructed to lie to their family and colleagues about their actual work and mathematician is his cover.
You are definitely on to somethings here Memphish. Either the DI gave glorified titles to average duties in general, or the "Supply" stations are a ruse to camouflage something that is to be kept hidden.
What was said in the podcasts makes some sense if they actually are supply holds, as it would be efficient to have consumables dispersed around the island for easier access for the other stations' needs. That is, supplies land in a designated spot and are then relocated to areas closer to the stations.
Good for you for listening to old podcasts for info as well! :o)
It's kind of a sickness Capcom. Actually I was listening to them for entertainment value, but they had some info. too. When I get to S2 in my re-watching, I'm going to listen to the old Transmission podcasts to see if I can pick up on anything then. If I'm really dedicated (bored) I'll get the old OLPs too.
Hi Loco's,
Been watching new episodes of "The Nine" on ABC.com;
Ms. Clue is back from the dead.
She is sure getting more lines this time around.
Have a great weekend.
That was Ms. Klugh,
sorry Bea.
SPoilller alert"""""""""""""""""""""""""
on dark ufo they have reported that the asian guy that was juniors buddy in the nursing home in the final sopranos season has been cast in a top secret role. The speculation is that he is jin and sun's son in the future flash, well one rumour has him experimenting with two rabbits. in the furure flash, if this is true there might be a chance that marvin candle is jin's son. look at dark ufo's rumour page. Perhaps thats why candle always uses a false name. I almost think this actor might be in a flashback as candle in the past, but they say that he is freinds witha grown up aaron. So this sets up a terminator/4400/heroes loop that the 815'ers are the fathers of dharma. This might explain why ben and locke needed to let jack make his call and why jack wasnt on jacobs list because he is not supposed to be on the island when the future Kwon(jins son) discovers how to transport through time, if any of this is true it shows why the course correctors like hawkings are so bent on not changing the time line, because if they do then jin's son will never find out the secret of time travel and go back and found dharma and humanity is doomed
perhaps jack has to make the call in order to let naomis people come in order to make aaron and sun/jins kid become the man he later becomes(marvin candle)
Sorry, I'm new here, what's all this about time-travel in Lost?
Post a Comment