According to the "Official Lost Podcast", the show's producers are very excited about tonight's episode. They say that it may make people say they've "Jumped the Shark". They also claim that Nikki and Paulo's flashbacks will satisfy people who wonder who they are and why they're here. I'm looking forward to having my skepticism about N & P erased by tonight's episode!
Wednesday, March 28, 2007
EXPOSÉ - SEASON 3, EPISODE 14
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346 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 346 of 346Tim,
Wasn't there some discussion about the Kronos titanium dioxide being in the red paint that Desmond was using?
For a good chuckle check out Gitsie Girl's Blog. I'll vouch that she made that picture way before last night.
Blue,
Ah, maybe that's the simple connection then. I missed that conversation. That would make sense though, paint is something the chemical would normally be used in.
Maybe someone commented on this and I missed it, but did anyone else notice how Nikki said, in reference to Boone and Shannon, something like "I hope we don't end up like them."
Well, they did. Buried right next to them.
Another example of the clever writing in this episode (along the same line as "You know what happens to guest stars").
In regards to the discussion about taking J,K and S during The Hunting Party. There's a photo on ABC's Lost website. It's the 7th photo for the 3 Minutes episode and it shows Tom, Pickett, Alex and 2 radom rifle toters escorting Michael back to Yurt Village. Lost-Media's photos still seem to be down.
I'm not so sure Paolo wished the same demise on Niki. He was rolling his eyes trying to get her atttention when the spiders were coming. If you can believe him he had the lame excuse that if she found the diamonds she wouldn't need him anymore. I have a feeling he cared more for her than she did for him. She probably just used him to get to the diamonds.
Forgot to mention this earlier, Nikki's Sugar Daddy wore a key around his neck like Jack which was referenced explicitly by Kate in the epsiode as well.
Memphish
I'll buy another man cause I wasn't sure if there were one or two, but I still don't think there were a dozen or so.
Guess we'll have to wait till Lost-Media is back up.
I agree Sayid's girl that there wasn't a dozen, but with Tom and that bolo, how many did you need once you took the guns off them? :o)
I don't think they took the guns until they lit the torches and made Jack beleve they were out numbered.
Here's some dialog
Pickett come in with Kate
Pickett: Hey lookie what I found she was following her friends about a half a click behind us.
Tom looks at Michael
If you make one sound you'll never see your boy again. Gag him. Get ready with the torches.
FWIW, I count nine Hostiles in this picture, plus another six(?) torches.
WHAT is up with the internet today??
• Amex Lost & Found Moments are not up
• Lost-Media.com not working
• Neilson ratings for Wednesday are delayed
Just as I say that, the ratings are in...and they are not great.
Wednesday night's ratings followed their usual pattern, with FOX and "American Idol" leading the way, although "Lost" slipped a little more thanks partly to an even smaller-than-usual lead-in.
At 10 p.m., CBS' "CSI: NY" repeat led in households with a 7.2/12, although ABC's "Lost" (6.8/12) had more total viewers.
Both CSI:NY and Lost were down from last week, but at least CSI:NY was a repeat.
Last week:
"Lost" (households: 7.4/13, #6; adults 18-49: 5.2, #3).
"CSI: NY" (households: 9.1/15, #3; adults 18-49: 4.1, #T5).
Dennis asked: WHAT is up with the internet today??
Spring Fever?
Everyone at a pep rally for the Bruins? GO BRUINS!
Stunned over Expose?
Sayid's Girl, Agree they didn't take the guns until the end and I guess at that point Tom had told them, drop your guns and you can go and we know "a deal's a deal" with these people. It's just very tortured planning to have to come up with a way to bring J,K and S to you when you've got them all right there and you've completely got the upper hand in terms of knowing who the heck you are and that the Losties have no idea who you are. But then again, the series would be over by the end of this Season if everyone acted as rationally as possible. LOL.
Ange said...
Well, maybe Smokey was not manefesting as the spiders this time, so much as it was recording and observing what was happening. I still think that the sound of Smokey is like data being processes (NYC ticket printer aside of course).
I have gone back and rewathced this scene several times. I am pretty confident that Paulo saw Smokey. Not sure if Nikki ever did. While Paulo is laying on the ground paralyzed before the male spiders appear, his eyes look straight up and move over from right to left as if he is watching something fly by. Had to be smokey since we heard him.
Also, I agree the with Ange that the sound we heard last night is supposed to be smokey processing data. I was trying to say that the sound bite they use for this effect has been confirmed as a NYC taxi ticket tape printer. It was late and my mind wasn't working very well :)
Erich said...
I don't buy the smoke monster/spider connection. It doesn't fit this week. Normally I'd be with you, but I think the spiders were just a plot device.
There's nothing to buy. If you rewatch the scene we clearly hear smokey, and I think Paulo even saw him.
At this point, there are two distinct sounds I hear with smokey. The data processing (NYC Taxi ticket printer) sound as smokey moves and processes info(heard clearly in the episode where ecko confronts smokey the first time) and the whistle noise smokey makes when he attacks.
Smokey was definetly there. No question in my mind. Why? I have absolutely no idea.
The producers confirmed this week in the abc podcast that the "magic box" was just a metaphor to put things in Locke's terms. There isn't really a majic box.
I see six that I can agree with including Tom.
Which brings it up to two more than I thought because I don't think Alex is in that shot.
And I still think there are more torches than people.
Memphish
I agree it's torture. Although I'm still not sure Jack would have given up if it hadn't been for Kate being captured. He's hard headed like me. ;_)
When the did capture Jack, Kate and Sawyer with Michael's help they were ambushed with darts.
Bolos, darts, tasers, da** those Others and their sneaky, sneaky ways.
Does anyone think we'll ever find out why they took blood from Michael and then Jack, Kate and supposedly off-screen Sawyer?
Memphish
I hope so. Bea was certainly interested in whether Mike was Walt's biological father or not.
Maybe something in Walt's blood/genetics is what they're interested in and not his special powers.
It seems like they've gotten very far away from the idea of Walt being "special."
Dennis said...
I think Ben was just making another trip to the Pearl to watch Jack, and got caught by Rousseau.
Dennis,
brilliant timeline. Thxs for putting it together. The only item I do not agree with is Ben.
I do beleive he was meant to be captured, but not as part of the plan to get Jack to operate. A seperate plan. Why else would Ben and Juliett go through the trouble of dressing up in their island outfit for the visit to the pearl, and when Ben was captured he was in his best J Crew outfit?
I am working on my theory that Ben's was targetting John and the goal was to get him to stop pushing the button.
DiggityDirge, Great point about the outfits and Ben. Ben and Juliet looked like rejects from a high school production of Peter Pan last night.
The Post Office is coming out with Star Wars Stamps. Good news TBP, no Jar Jar. No Lando either. Poor Billy Dee. Hope it works out for his being The Cobra.
Memphish
Is your avi after Sun smacks Sawyer. lol
Melissa_Lossa said...
Good morning, all!
Okay, I'm going to jump right in with a thought that I just had:
I've always thought that Ben wanted Locke to stop pushing the button, and that was ultimately his reason for getting "caught" and taken to the Swan. He wanted them to stop pushing the button, but not to be there when it happened. And I've finally come up with a reason for this!
Ben doesn't want anyone to leave the island. They have the sub, but it's really just for show. Ben wants everyone to FEEL like they can leave any time, but that's not really the case. He knows that if the Swan fails, then if the sub leaves, it can't ever come back - therefore, everyone will be trapped on the island (only a couple could fit in the sub, so most people would be left behind, and/or most people wouldn't want to take the one-way trip off the island). HOWEVER, it cannot be Ben that stops pushing the button, because then it will be his fault that no one can leave, and the Others will probably mutiny. So, he convinces Locke that there's no need to push the button and then escapes with the knowledge that it's only a matter of time until Locke tests that theory.
That's why Ben looks so pleased when the sky turns purple. He knows that once again, he has manipulated the situation perfectly.
Thoughts, anyone?
Very Nice. My thoughts exactly. Here is my supporting argument.
MICHAEL: When are you going to do it?
MS. KLUGH: When am I going to do what?
MICHAEL: Kill me. I've seen where you live. I know how to get here. You have been asking me asking me questions I don't know the answer to for a week. I don't even think my son is alive.
MS. KLUGH: He is alive, Michael. He's standing outside right now.
MICHAEL: What, do you think I'm stupid?
MS. KLUGH: There's been a development since you came here, Michael. One of our people was captured by yours.
MICHAEL: So, go get him back.
MS. KLUGH: We can't do that. But you can. And if you do, we'll let you and Walt go free.
MICHAEL: I want to see my son.
I still think they dress that way to blend in and protect themselves from the true hostiles. Not to confuse the Losties. I think there's another group wondering around out there besides our others. I know another kookie theory.
Yes, Sayid's Girl. I loved that flying hair.
So DiggityDirge, do you think the rest of the Others realize that surface ships like the Elizabeth, the SS Walt and Michael and the bigger version of that boat can't leave? I still don't understand why you need a sub to leave but airplanes and boats can crash there.
I also think that dialouge Diggity posted supports the idea that the Others didn't know how to get to the Swan.
Memphish,
Until I looked at it more closely, I thought your avi was a bucking unicorn.
Blueheron13, Is that good or bad? I considered using just a hair shot, but decided to include the unclothed back as well.
memphish -
yes, I do think the others realize that boats/ships will not help them get off the island. To me, it is a moot point that the others didn't know about the Elizabeth:
JULIET: So they have a boat -- sailing in circles will keep them busy.
COLLEEN: They could find us. [long pause] Ben?
BEN: I'm thinking. How quickly can you put together a team?
The concern isn't that they will get off the island, it was that they will find othersville.
The island is hidden and no one can find it without the underwater signal that was broadcast for the sub. Just my opinion, but an island like this would be worthless if it could be reached by water. Soemone would eventually find it.
If the island can only be accessed by air and sub, it makes the illusion of the island being hidden a lot more believable. I'm not sure how the plane finds the island for the food drops though.
But how did the Elizabeth crash there and Rousseau's boat (if you believe her story) and how did they get everything they needed there to build all that stuff?
I like the theory of some sort of cloaking device and these incidents like Desmond's crash co-inciding with a scheduled arrival. His arrival date and Juliet's are very close.
A fan site is reporting that "the date on the newspaper Paulo was reading was September 24, 2004--two days after the actual crash."
Mark over at alt.tv.lost supplied a link to the newspaper pic
http://www.lostpedia.com/images/4/48/Lost-s03e14-80days-newspaper.jpg
What will this do to the Lost story?
Is this why Nikki & Paulo showed up on the Lost Isle after Desmond turned the Fail Safe Key? Is time on AND off the island messed up in some way?
good point memphis. Not sure how he elizabeth got there in the first place. I'll have to ponder that a bit.
I don't get why people are saying Nikki and Paulo showed up on the island after the turn of the fail safe kay. It is pretty clear that they were there from the crash per the flashback. For some reason the writers choose to add them to the story, just like Anna and Libby last year. Are you saying time is repeating itself and this go around Paulo and Nikki showed up?
I would chalk the newspaper thing up as a continuity error. There is no possible way to explain that one.
See you all later. Gotta catch a flight home.
diggitydirge said...At this point, there are two distinct sounds I hear with smokey. The data processing (NYC Taxi ticket printer) sound as smokey moves and processes info(heard clearly in the episode where ecko confronts smokey the first time) and the whistle noise smokey makes when he attacks.
Smokey was definetly there. No question in my mind.
I agree with you and I watched it several times last night. I think the two sounds bit is why some think there are two monsters. Also, I thought it was interesting that Paulo and Nikki had a little conversation about Smokey with Nikki saying something like, "...I don't know it was some kind of dinosaur or something." I need to go look for the transcript of that part, but she did mention Smokey, and I have to agree, I think Paulo saw him/it as well.
Lindelof said the losties (his words) would be "screwed in a way they could not yet appreciate"
I do not think the news paper date is in any way an error...it is a clue as to how they get messed up after the Desmond purple sky incident
It could possibly be an error since September 24,2004 is on a Friday not a Thursday.
tbm
I remember D.L. saying that. I think you're right it has something to do with the timeline. Maybe they jumped ahead.
Why isn't the Island healing Sawyer's eyesight? My 7-year-old just said "Another mystery that needs to be solved." LMAO. And did he take Evelyn Woods' Speed Reading Class while in prison? If they ever get rescued Sawyer should get a job writing Cliff's Notes.
I am a little stumped, brainstorming out loud if you will...If the newspaper date and day are correct (we know they are not in our reality) how far back in time would a time traveler have to go, to make the date/day inconsistancy, correct....
That's a really good question tbm
and it has me stumped too.
Finally caught up on comments!
ange said...Also, I thought it was interesting that Paulo and Nikki had a little conversation about Smokey with Nikki saying something like, "...I don't know it was some kind of dinosaur or something." I need to go look for the transcript of that part, but she did mention Smokey, and I have to agree, I think Paulo saw him/it as well.
I tend to agree. I also think (and I think someone mentioned this) that Paulo may have seen it right before/after the plane crash because he had the same blank/fearful stare on his face when Nikki found him on the beach after the crash. I think that is why they inserted the dinosaur convo while they were looking for the bag, etc.
Also, the newspaper/time discrepancy is really intriguing. That is why I really think that people are dismissing last night's episode too quickly as filler. I think there are things in it that will turn out to be significant to the story/mystery.
Wow. I could take or leave the episode at face value- you all have changed my mind!
Sayid's girl... you and me again, I don't think P had anything but love for N- I don't think he wished her harm. Wasn't he saying something to the effect of not wanting to lose her?
Thinbluemime- wow, what a catch on the date. I don't pretend to speculate (I'll read someone elses interpretation!)
I'm undecided between most of this epi being a forgettable way of tying up a few ends....or we're looking at something either so ridiculously obvious we are missing it, or something so minute (yet important) no one has picked it up yet. And I wonder why I like this show so much!
I say, the answer is in the "Razzle Dazzle!" ...always enjoy your thoughts folks!
(
Okay not caught up or read anything but after having spoken to Ange and doing a bit of audio work I thought I'd put up the following:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fenrisfil/lost/1steko2ndnewbs.mp3
What it is is an mp3 for comparison between the smoke monster attacking Eko and then immediately after that is the sound we hear just before the spider swarm attacks the newbies.
For those that can't be bothered to follow they have the exact same rythme but are slightly different pitches. After I did this file I pitch shifted the first one up a bit and you can tell it IS THE SAME SOUND. That is conclusive.
Of course that may just be the producers messing with us.
This two day discrepency is very intriguing. Interesting catch, luckyguylikeme, with the promo thing. Usually I would dismiss the paper date problem as just a continuity error that slipped by. But in a show like Lost, everything means something and is there for a reason. Are we really in another timeline?
That is LINK
I forgot how to post a link on blogger for a second there. Just normal html. Lol.
Okay catching up see you in 300 posts. Argh!
If it turns out we are watching episodes in different timelines, I'm not going to be happy. Is this the method for issuing 2 sets of Series DVDs, as they aired and as the Timeline 1 and then Timeline 2 occurred?
The promo department I write off as being the cr** promo department who thought "Three HUGE Questions Will Be Answered" in SIASL. The fact that they can't keep the dates straight wouldn't bother me in the least.
The newspaper thing on the other hand. We've proven how freakin' obsessive we are people. Locke has 2 birthdays (did you notice that the birthday in TMFT was the same as the gun permits not the driver's license in FI?), the X-ray has a 2006 date, etc. Come on props people! You are dealing with obsessive fans. You have to make a fake newspaper, get the dates right unless you want us to read something into it! Use LOSTPedia for goodness sake. We all do.
Thus concludes my rant.
Memphish: I used to work as a research person on a TV dramatic show back in the 80's (before my son came along), and I can tell you that attention to detail was vital between researching facts in the show and having the prop department do things right. One would think that a show such as Lost would at least be as attentive knowing how the fans dissect every detail. (No show internet blogs back in my day! LOL) There must be someone on the set who would oversee these things besides the Script Coordinator.
Thanks Maven. I'll check Gregg Nations over on the Fuselage and see what he has to say about it.
memphish, I understand your frustration.
I have capped the newspaper...this is the best I can get....BIG (350k) NO COMPRESSION for detail clarity
http://lostdude.com/lostpics/lost.s03.e14.720p.hdtv-0005.jpg
Gang: I just re-looked at the paper in HD and slo-motion. I think it reads Tuesday, September 21, which would make sense that they're reading a paper that came out a day before they were in the airport to catch 815 on Wednesday, September 22.
Read through all of your comments and have a few thoughts of my own.
1. The Whispers - I have read all of those transcripts (they even appeared in a book about Lost. The Sound guys confirmed that they are indeed there and that they are meant as easter eggs for the fans.) I think that they sound like transmissions from somewhere. I have wondered why they have not been discussed in detail here.
In regards to the hunting Party and not crossing the line...do you think that when the Purge came about they all decided that there was indeed a line that could not be crossed as in - Ben and the others were not meant to cross that line but to stay on their side (but when the crash happened that was Ben's way into the area)
Danielle was just left to fend for herself as an outsiders. The secret military or Government Org(Radinsky, Kelvin Inman, Patchy) came into control the electomagnetic anomolies in the Swan and Patchy in the communications area knowing that there were "outsiders" or "hostiles" such as Danielle roaming the area. So they were told not to go outside - even writing quarantine on the hatch door to discourage them from going outside and mixing with any of them. Maybe Bea was sent into check out the others by Patchy to see if they were keeping up with the DI experiments. Just my thoughts.
Sayid's Girl said Bea was interested in whether or not Mike was Walts Biological Dad Something in his blood or genetics......okay hear me out please....Walt's mother Susan died of a blood disorder...she left mike and moved to Amsterdam then to Italy and then to Sydney....all locations follow the path of the Hanso foundation......could they have infected her blood in hopes to get Walt for experimentation on his special powers??? Knowing his father had given him up and his mother had died?
Just thinking outloud - sorry for the long post been lurking far too long....
TBM, In your picture to me it looks like Thusday the 24th. Someone has posted the question for Gregg Nations now at The Fuselage. Hopefully he'll answer soon.
Lady Lost, I like your ideas about Susan and Walt's travels and AH's.
For those of you intersted in The Whispers you should check out Thread #1 and Thread #2 over at The Fuselage. Dark UFO also has a page of some of the more recent whispers.
memphish, Thanks!
It looks like Thursday the 24th of September to me also, but it would be nice (& important) to really know for sure.
It hurts my head thinking about how a potential time shift like this will affect the Lost timeline.
Good Morning LoCos. I have a question for a Friday morning.
Why was Ethan encouraging Nikki and Paolo to explore the interior of the Island in order to look for luggage? Was he trying to help them find the water but Jack and Jack's dad beat him to it?
There's an Official LOST Podcast up today. Hopefully they'll answer our newspaper question. Off to listen.
Doing my best on it with photoshop (which is something I regularly do for my job), it looks like it's Thursday the 24th.
I don't even understand what a time shift would begin to mean, nor do I want to.
Additionally, that's a bad fake newspaper headline! You're not supposed to end a headline line with the word "of," or other short/prepositional words. :)
Tim, your editor comments make me laugh.
No word on the OLP about the date. Guess we'll have to wait until next week.
Maybe Maven could go storm the Disney studios and demand an answer on the newspaper date question. It is only 6 am out there right now. Guess we'll let her get some coffee in her before sending her out. She could be part of the Hurley/Sawyer Detective Agency if she succeeds.
I think Locke losing his ability to walk back in Deus Ex Machina was the Island's way of protecting its Chief Priest. With Locke unable to walk, he can't climb up the cliff, enter the plane and go boom like Boone. Otherwise, Crocodile Locke would have gone up the cliff and quite possibly died, but the Island wasn't done with him yet.
The more I reflect on it, I think we've been getting it wrong that you are killed once you are redeemed with respect to the issues in your own personal life. The only life that really matters is the Island's, and when it's done with you, you are expendable. You don't have to die, but it's okay if you do. The Island didn't need the Marshall, Joanne, Scott, Boone, Shannon, Ana Lucia, Libby or the assorted now dead Others. It does still need Sawyer which is why he's always healing. It needs Locke which is why he's healing. Maybe it needs Rose too (who is mentioned in the OLP).
It makes me wonder if the Island needed Nikki and Paolo because Vincent (who I believe is the Smoke Monster, well, I sort of believe that) uncovered Nikki and Paolo. Was this the Island trying to preserve them. For now I think they are dead, but it would be cool if Smokey Vincent dug them up and saved them because the Island needs them (though I personally have no use for them and never had.) The OLP has an interesting discussion about the bleeper twins as well.
Sayid'sgirl said... I see six that I can agree with including Tom. Which brings it up to two more than I thought because I don't think Alex is in that shot. And I still think there are more torches than people.
I think you are right.
I watched "3 Minutes" again last night, and only 3 people are shown when Michael is captured (Pickett, Tom, and another ), but when they bring him into the fake village, there's 5 of them (including Alex and another guy that looks like Karl).
So unless they met up with a bunch of people in the jungle, it would have been an even match up against the Losties (Jack, Kate, Locke, Sawyer, Michael).
memphish said...
I think Locke losing his ability to walk back in Deus Ex Machina was the Island's way of protecting its Chief Priest. With Locke unable to walk, he can't climb up the cliff, enter the plane and go boom like Boone. Otherwise, Crocodile Locke would have gone up the cliff and quite possibly died, but the Island wasn't done with him yet.
The more I reflect on it, I think we've been getting it wrong that you are killed once you are redeemed with respect to the issues in your own personal life. The only life that really matters is the Island's, and when it's done with you, you are expendable. You don't have to die, but it's okay if you do. The Island didn't need the Marshall, Joanne, Scott, Boone, Shannon, Ana Lucia, Libby or the assorted now dead Others. It does still need Sawyer which is why he's always healing. It needs Locke which is why he's healing. Maybe it needs Rose too (who is mentioned in the OLP).
It makes me wonder if the Island needed Nikki and Paolo because Vincent (who I believe is the Smoke Monster, well, I sort of believe that) uncovered Nikki and Paolo. Was this the Island trying to preserve them. For now I think they are dead, but it would be cool if Smokey Vincent dug them up and saved them because the Island needs them (though I personally have no use for them and never had.) The OLP has an interesting discussion about the bleeper twins as well.
interesting take memphish. i just thought of something before... slightly off-topic, and no doubt its been though of before (ive never read it before though). I think Danielle Roussou was Dharma. she mentioned to us she was on a scientific expedition. And if she has been on the island for 16 years then it seems like the right time for when the dharma was still in swing. I think she knows a lot more then she is letting on... i mean c'mon she called the smoke monster a "security system" how did she know that detail? and why (if she didnt know about its origin) wouldnt she believe its a monster (like everyone else). Well im done with my rant... dont flame if that has been theoried before (cos ive never seen it :P)
Namaste
memphish said...
"Maybe Maven could go storm the Disney studios and demand an answer on the newspaper date question"
LOL, Damon has said the abc lot security is maybe kinda not the best....BLD 23 Maven! :)
Mr_cool I like your Danielle is Dharma idea. It would be cool if there is a last surviving member of Dharma as Patchy said, only it's a crazy Serbian-accented French chick, not a one-eyed Ukranian.
I think the newspaper date is just a prop error, simply because September 24. Even if I believed any the time travel theories, which I don't, you can't change September 24, 2004 from a Friday to a Thursday.
I listened to the official Lost podcast, and they don't answer the newspaper date question.
However, they do confirm that the man that Hurley saw falling was NOT John Locke - the timeline doesn't work for that to happen.
1) DiggityDirge said: "If the island can only be accessed by air and sub, it makes the illusion of the island being hidden a lot more believable. I'm not sure how the plane finds the island for the food drops though."
I don't think this can be quite right because Micheal left the island on a boat and if he were to turn up again after sailing in circles then it would mean that Ben broke his word and the Others would know that. I think that when Julliet said about them sailing in circles it was because there is only one point on the islands perimiter which you can get out. Hence the course details Ben gave to Micheal. But that means that there is no reason that the Others can't still leave on the yaught if they follow that same course.
Whatever the case their is something iffy going on. Maybe sailing isn't good enough and you need a powered engine to get past what may be some kind of weather anomoly that makes it impossible to sail away from the island.
But if there is only one point on the perimiter for enterence and exit from the island it could be the beacon was the guide to those outside the island to find the point. The point is consistant inside the island so you can always get off the island but, now no one can come back with the beacon down except by accident.
Having said that people must be able to get to the island otherwise the whole outside world part of the Season 2 finale would be pointless.
2) Also I agree with DiggityDirge on Ben wanting Locke (or at least someone) to stop pushing the button. I believe that was the real reason for the visit to the Pearl station. He connected up the Swan monitor to the pearl knowing that it would make it appear that the Swan was just a psychological experiment when they found it and he was counting on them finding it.
3) They didn't show it but I'd say that we can make a fair guess as to who smoked the cigarette in the Pearl station now. Dumb ass Spartan.
4) The story of this episode was totally out of an Edgar Allan Poe story.
5) I think the previous podcast virtually confirmed that the Horse and Cat are linked to Lockes father and not the smoke monster as I had suggested. We have a definite signature noise for the monster and I have confirmed with my samples above that it is the same noise that happened when the spiders attacked. But I've been thinking about this thing. Firstly I need to go back and figure out exactly where it was that we "didn't notice" smokey in season 2. It obviously wasn't the horse that was a total red herring. But in theory there should be the signature noise at some point. Secondly as smokey is starting to act with some kind of pattern I am really starting to wonder about the differences between Early smokey appearances and his current ones. I mean we haven't seen tree's flying around lately and that whole bit where it randomly attacked the airplane pilot just seems kinda out of character. Not to mention the way it seemed to want to take Locke home to meet his mum.
6) There is a suggestion that the spiders were just spiders but that smokey was present. Maybe even encouraging the spiders in some way. Now if the spiders do contain a paralysing venom that can make it's victims appear dead...well I know Ange already said it, but totally fits in with my theory about Christian and the "zombie" drug. :)
7) Re: Food labels. I still reckon there was some kind of goods trade in operation. It could be from when DI was in control or it could have been some kind of uneasy truce between the DI and the Others.
8) "God loves you as He loved Jacob" - It says "Loved" as in past tense. I'm wondering if Jacob really is the same as HIM. I noticed Lostpedia is considering it a forgone conclusion already, which is a mistake in my opinion. It could be the list wasn't actually written by a currently live character and that could go back to this archeological theme we were supposed to have. Whatever the case I think there has to be a reason why it says "loved" and not "loves". Maybe they are just satanists and the goal is to loose Gods love. *shrug*
9) "for some reason it never dawned on me that the lists Goodwin and Ethan were sent to collect were simply lists of names, not necessarily with their judgments about the people." I'm showing off now, but I totally called that too.
10) I wonder why Julliet get's creeped out by the Pearl station. Hmmm.
Okay stopping at ten. Will take me forever to read all the comments, but I think i got the jist of what has been discussed. I think largely this episode was partially to get rid of two red shirt characters that no one really liked, partially to give ex-characters a chance to appear again (it was like a re-union party) and that the only big plot element was the outing of the Sawyer/Charlie/Sun thing. There were however as always nice little subtle hints just like there always are. I don't mind the episode really. But I am kinda hoping that some of those other characters will get more involvement before the end of the season. IMHO there has been a bit too much focus on our core crew this season. Unavoidable with the plot direction I suppose. *shrug*
Guess I'll have to set up a parameter search on Disney Studios and locate the Forensics Hatch! LOL
Unfortunately, I'm going out of town this weekend. :( and :) So you'll have to slug it out here. I said earlier that upon slo-mo on my HDTV, I thought it could be Tuesday, September 21st.
Maven, I can't believe you are letting us down. What kind of fan are you? Can anyone else get to the Valley? JK. Where are those people who were around when DJ Dan was doing his live show?
Have a great trip Maven. Hope you'll be near a TV Sat. night pulling for the Bruins. I have to go to a hubby work thing, but I'm pretty sure TV will be available.
GO BRUINS!
The Bruins are in the box.
Memphish: Gosh, now I feeling so guilty by letting you guys down. I do count myself a big fan, but not one that wants to get arrested! LOL (I can't believe I'm the only one near Disney Studios that's active on TLC!)
Yes, I'll be near TV for THE GAME!
Hey Dennis
Thanks for that.
It is absoultely possible that they met up with some more people in the jungle but I have never beleived that. This group is all about manipulation and making you believe what they want you to believe.
I'm with you on the newspaper being a prop error if the date was consistant with the correct day I might buy it. But you never know for sure.
sidebar - what happened to hurleys vw car? is it parked somewhere with the engine running?
have a good weekend all.
Bigdog,
I believe the VW was mentioned in the Official Lost Podcast from 3/26.
I don't want to repeat what they said as it would be considered spoilery.
BTW, I learned a new word today:
RETCON - Short for Retroactive continuity, is the adding of new information to "historical" material, or deliberately changing previously established facts in a work of serial fiction.
Personally, I loved this episode. Some people think that LOST has jumped the shark, but this episode has single-handedly renewed my faith in the show. Plot twists until the last second.
Hey Lostinfrogurt
I liked this episode too.
I've also missed your dancing bear. :-)
:D I've barely posted here, since by the time I'm done watching the episode, which is shown an hour early in Canada, it hasn't been posted. I only get about an hour on the computer after LOST, seeing how it's a school day the next day, and I pretty much forget to when I come home the next day. ;-;
Anyway, I'm glad I'm remembered.
Okay here's a point about Smokey and to challenge peoples pressumptions once again: - We have never actually seen him change from something it was impersonating IIRC to the black smoke. Yemi walked off and then the smoke attacked Eko, we don't know for a fact that Yemi turned into the smoke. We all assumed that was the case, but there is no reason that Smokey is a lone operator. I'm still not convinced there is only one "monster" and that everything is smokey. There is a lot more going on I reckon.
fenris said...I'm still not convinced there is only one "monster" and that everything is smokey.
Seems to me there are two distinct sounds, as people have said many comments. A chattering sound, and a guttural growl/moan type sound (almost like the dinos in Jurassic Park). This second sound comes with an attack. Could be two monsters, one to collect data and observe, the other to attack. Here are two YouTubes to illustrate because I am feeling very thorough today:
Smokey and Eko’s Life Rellection
Eko Getting the Smack Down
If Paulo's Newspaper wasn't enough to make ya wanna cuss, there is still more from the Lost creators, that can make you pull your hair out.
From "Expose'", screen caps and a flash clip.
The flash is of the Nikki Paulo burial scene MINUS the distracting spider flashback.
Watch the Shadows, watch the SUN.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.lost/browse_thread/thread/71571d6bae5ff57f/819a56dbcdf06801#819a56dbcdf06801
Oh no. Thinbluemine is distracted by the sun again. I think they are doing it just to mess with you TBM. Just kidding.
Ange, do you often feel thorough? Is there a pill you can take for that?
The new J. Wood entry for Expose is up. Did the Lost Moments ever get posted Dennis?
“Nothing stays buried on this island,” Locke says to Paulo as Paulo was digging a hole to bury the diamonds. Locke pointed out that when the high tide comes in, anything buried would be uncovered. I don’t know exactly where they buried N&P, but if a nasty tropical storm with higher tides moved through, maybe N&P would also be uncovered.
I also think that the unusual nature of this episode was all about CHEESY. Nikki had a cheesy tv show (was that really Billy Dee Williams???), she led a cheesy, almost comic-book life with Paulo, and she suffered a cheesy, “Tales From The Crypt” death. (She’s really lucky that there was no Autopsy Hatch, or else she would have suffered the same fate as the cheerleader on Heroes. Ha ha!) My point is that TPTB followed the whole “cheesy” theme by filming the show in a cheesy manner. I’m glad to see that I wasn’t the only one who double-checked that the tv channel was still on ABC, and that I was actually watching Lost.
Oh, and one last thing that bugged me: After N&P killed N’s rich old hubby, and then went to the safe to get the Russian nesting dolls, and N’s eyes bugged out at the unrevealed contents stored inside the dolls, I couldn’t WAIT to see what unbelievable surprise TPTB had in store for us.
What a huge disappointment to see that it was only a mundane bag of diamonds! How ordinary and uninteresting, and, yes, cheesy…for a Lost episode, that is.
One last comment: one of you guys wrote that you were proud of Sawyer for pouring the diamonds into the grave instead of trying to hoard them. Maybe……but, knowing that Sawyer has never been an altruistic person, the thought hit me that maybe, next episode, Sawyer will sneak back to the grave in the middle of the night and dig down to recover the diamonds, only to get the shock of his life when Nikki rears up screaming and clawing at him! What clever things will he say then??
memphish said...Ange, do you often feel thorough? Is there a pill you can take for that?
I often FEEL thorough, however BEING thorough is a completely different thing! I plan to discover a new breed of spider though, and invent a pill soon. I'll keep you posted on that;).
friday's_child said...I don’t know exactly where they buried N&P, but if a nasty tropical storm with higher tides moved through, maybe N&P would also be uncovered.
They buried them where they have put all of the dead, and no one has washed up so far. Although according to Locke, "Winter is coming," so who knows, maybe the dead will float around soon enough and someone can do something about Boone's hair.
According to J. Wood we may be able to connect Zuckerman to Joop.
[Baron Sol Zuckerman] was also a foremost scholar of primate behavior. In his wartime activity, his activism, and his study of primates, we have an individual fit for the Hanso Foundation.
J. Wood also adds some fuel to the Christian Shephard's death was faked fire.
I also cracked up laughing when I realized that I wasn't the only one who hoped that the long-haired dude on Expose was TWM!!
It's funny how I keep hoping for one of the characters from TLE to show up on the island.
How did Paolo get out of the Pearl after Ben and Juliet left? There do not appear to be handles on the inside of the Pearl Hatch.
I can't believe this group of former TLECers, myself included, forgot about The Spider Protocol. Just saw it mentioned in some comments over at Sledgeweb. For those of you who weren't TLECers or don't remember, you can find out about the Spider Protocol here.
mr_cool 132 & memphish... Danielle is prob tied to Dharma somehow. I read somewhere... cant remember... that Danielle says one oher team, Montand, lost his arm... sounds like Marvin Candle to me...
Here is the quote:
[They come to a piece of black fabric hanging from a branch.]
DANIELLE: Le Territoire Fonce.
JACK: The Dark Territory.
DANIELLE: The Black Rock is not far. This is where it all began -- where my team got infected -- where Montan lost his arm. We must move quickly.
ARZT: You know what? I'm going back.
JACK: Hey, I thought you wanted to help.
ARZT: Yeah, I wanted to help -- that was before Montan lost his fricking arm.
This is also very telling:
[The rain stops.]
DANIELLE: We're safe now.
KATE: What was that thing?
DANIELLE: It's a security system.
JACK: Security system? What does that mean?
DANIELLE: It's purpose it that of any security systems -- to protect something.
KATE: Protect what?
DANIELLE: The island.
Not... "I Think it some kind of security system". "It's a security system" seems like such an odd description for someone who is not Dharma.
memphish said... How did Paolo get out of the Pearl after Ben and Juliet left? There do not appear to be handles on the inside of the Pearl Hatch.
Maybe they closed it, but they didn't lock it.
Looking at that picture, why didn't Locke notice that the plane had been moved since he was there with Boone? And if he did notice, what did he attribute the movement to?
Have a good weekend everyone!
GO BRUINS!
Spider Protocol, Lol yes funny we all forgot that. Is it a link or a co-incidence? Well we never quite got to the bottom of that whole thing so I'm willing to entertain some relevence and guess what - it continues to back up my theory about the zombie drug. Yay!
Echo...echo...echo....
Whoa! Spider Protocol! Are you saying Memphish that maybe the spiders were set upon the island in some kind of plan to spread a paralizing virus on unsuspecting peeps? How far fetched is that?! Haha. :o) Hey, that would be a great way to take over an island...get all the natives paralized, and then put them in cages before they wake up.
I really like the idea of Sawyer going back to claim whatever diamonds that he can find, and either finding a live N&P, or none at all. Oh yeah!
Thanks for the heads-up on J.Wood, I'm sure he has a real life, but it's taken him a bit longer than usual to get his article out for the last two eps. After the first couple days of checking his site, then I forget to.
Wonderful insights and homework done today LoCos!
Concerning the Smokey clue that we are told that we missed in Ep 1 or 2: the more I look at the Youtube Smokey clips from the early shows, the more I see vague, sometimes bluish, images (i.e. flashes in various shapes) like those that we saw with Mr.Eko, . Could TPTB possibly be telling us not that we missed Smokey, but that when we saw Smokey and we missed the image or images that were inside Smokey? Back then we really didn't know that we were supposed to look for something like that. We only noticed images when Eko faced Smokey the first time, right? It's possible that every time Smokey came near one of the Lostaways, that an assessment was being made, and images were being processed or revealed. But, I sure don't want to go back and look for Smokey in every ep from S1 ans S2, that would be painful.
P.S. Along the lines of the Purpling and the N&P's trading places with Rose and Bernard on the plane, were N&P's seat numbers revealed in the ep, so that we can compare it to R&B's seats?
Okay new theory.
I've said that I think the horse and cat came from the "box", but how about Vincent too?
People have speculated about him being the smoke monster, etc, yada yada ab infinitum, but what if he is simply one of these things that spawned on the island due to the presence of people there.
It also explains an additional facination with Lockes dad, perhaps these spawnings are almost always animals, but in Lockes case he got a human. Maybe because he is tied to both Locke and Sawyer, if he is the real Sawyer that is.
Anyway, just putting that out there.
Fenris, Good idea about Vincent. Both Walt and Michael certainly wished they would find Vincent. Just because we saw Vincent in the jungle with Jack first doesn't mean that "special" Walt didn't wish him there "immediately." Locke and Vincent do have a special connection as well what with the silent dog whistle.
Any hints or clues as to my Qs? Tx. :-)
capcom- Lostpedia says N & P were in the middle section...Rose and Bernard 23 D and E. Other than that not finding any seating information yet.
Thanks! Well, I would be very happy if they had NOT changed places in time after the Purpling. I guess Rose and Bernard have just wandered off to their little personal honeymoon spot on the island. :o)
Okay I have to admit it. I also thought that the ponytail man in Expose might be TWM. lol
Sayid's Girl said: Okay I have to admit it. I also thought that the ponytail man in Expose might be TWM. lol That's 3 of us now.
Here's a funny Lost promo, which makes fun of Lost promos.
Courtesy of The Showbiz Show with David Spade.
just checking in
I like the discussions about Danielle possibly being the last living Dharma.
I enjoyed reading friday's_childs' description of the Cheesy-ness of the episode
capcom, I also think Rose & Bernard are having their own little second honeymoon
dennis, the funny lost promo..omg, that made me laugh!! (and thanks, I needed a laugh)
Personally, I can't wait for the show to get back to Locke dealing with the fact that Cooper is there!
testing.... new avatar
That would be the VW Bus' flashbacks then!
Well cool if it turns out we actually find out what happened to Dharma. Rock N Roll.
Mr. Cool,
Please DO NOT post SPOILERS about future episodes. Please read the spoiler rules.
Thanks.
PS. You can delete your own posts by clicking the "trash can" icon under the post.
The title was Expose. Okay, what was exposed? Charlie tattled on himself and Sawyer. Boone was outed as gay, maybe. Anything else?
I loved the "didn't go well" list. It was dead-on.
I enjoyed this episode but I thought it jumped the shark before I read that TPTB said something about it. To complete the process they need Aaron to suddenly be a cute but smart-alecky 7-year-old to take Walt's place. (And because they can manipulate time, they can do it legitimately, unlike the family sitcoms.)
Morning all! (I'm in Palm Springs!)
Interesting talk re Danielle. She could have been part of a scientific team that was recruited to the island, so she could have been part of Dharma originally. Perhaps the sickness did overtake her team and she did go a little bonkers, so she was deemed unreliable and was left alone all these years.
Ok, sorry dennis, i didnt think posting the name and who the episode is abotu was a spoiler... sorry.
Maven, I also would like to spec that Rousseau's sci-team was there for Dharma work but it went to heckinnahandbasket as things seem to do for Dharma. It could fit into the scheme of things up to this point of our knowledge I think. They may have come in at the time of The Purge, which would have not been a good time to arrive. OT: you're in Palm Springs? I'm so jealous, Palm Springs is one of the 20thC. Modernism meccas of the world. Go see Franks Sinatra's old house, if you can get close enough to drive by! And the celebrity themed-trailerpark is wacky.
Lurking since the beginning. First post. I gotta say that you guys are nothing short of amazing. The most knowledgable and intriguing conversation about "Lost" is right here.You guys are the best.
Now for my two cents. really enjoyed the last episode. A little sad but mostly wickedly funny. The funny part,of course, was the way they did each other in. The sad part was all of the misery that could have been avoided if Paolo had just told what he saw and heard, not to mention what he found.
Hey Paulo! Your village called and they want their idiot back.
The big reveal, for lack of a better word, was the short scene between Juliet and Ben. Though the island may be magical and mystical Ben is nothing more than a con man and Juliet is his partner in crime.
Finally, a prevelant theme in "lost" is good and bad or black and white. In my mind there are 2 dogs on this island........
Cerberus is the black dog, the bad dog. Self appointed judge, jury and executioner........
Vincent is the white dog, the good dog. Guide, helper. and observer. Too bad he couldn't talk
Martysbaybay,
Welcome! Glad your here!
Good point about the black and white dogs.
And about Ben being merely a con man. I wonder why a person growing up in isolation on an island in the South Pacific would need to develop such keen manipulation skills? I don't think he could be a DeGroot, too old, but maybe his parents were psychologists or some other type of behaviorists.
TheBookPolice said...
"If Artz named the spider Latrodectus regina, and gave it the common name of "Medusa spider," that implies that he knew the effects of the toxin. How?"
No gurantees, but a possible solution....but unfortunately, this solution raises a whole new set of problems for the Lost community (aka, keeping track of events)
Twin Timelines:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.lost/browse_thread/thread/6c3662a9d1073a7b/5c97f30995755ff8#5c97f30995755ff8
TBP, I rewatched Expose. When talking about the Medusa spider, Artz used the expression "they say." I think he identified this spider but didn't discover it.
barbarajay, exactly, he did not discover it originally as a new species. The spider was already known in the outside world.
Memphish...Thanks for the welcome
I don't think that Ben is a Degroot either. like always he conned his way in. he is a keen manipulator for sure but he is no master as the "that didn't go well" list so vividly shows. He seems to operate as of late like he is a heartbeat a way from being discovered for the fraud that he is.
Another puzzling character is Tom. There is definetly more there then we see. He has no love for Ben. In fact i don't think he even likes him. Which makes you wonder why he is loyal.
TBM
I agree with you about twin timelines. After rewatching Expose it seemed to me that the things in Niki and Paulo's island flashbacks didn't seem to match up with the timeline that we already know. I haven't had the chance to rewatch some of the first and second seasons shows yet to varify this but it just seemed off to me. With the 57 days ago and 42 days ago etc. I've been wondering when you count forward if the dates match up with the timeline we know and the one they showed us in Niki and Paulo's island flashbacks.Like with Ethan it seemed like he was there longer than he was in the original timeline, but like I said I haven't had the chance to verify it. I think the pupose of the show was to show us the different timeline.
Yay Babarajay and TBM, that's what I thought as well, that although Doc Arzt said he discovered some unknown spiders, the Medusa might possibly be a "known" (in Lost reality) species.
And as for it not being a actual spider in reality, and why would TPTB make up a spider, etc. -- I'm just trying to register that (and many other things in Lost) more or less in a fuzzy logic area similar to the "plausible impossibility" in animation. In Walt Disney's words, it's taking something that's against the laws of nature (i.e. impossible or in this case non-existent) and making it appear acceptable (plausible). TPTB have told us that they don't want to take Lost completely into the SciFi genre, but that doesn't mean that they won't stretch reality a little bit on us, which they do. I personally think that it's OK for them to do that (and I understand how some people would not think so). Although, there is a line where make-believe becomes SciFi, e.g. if TPTB say that the earth has two suns, etc., then they've crossed over into fantasy. But little made up things don't bother me so much, if that indeed is what this whole spider species thing is about.
The thing that I can't wrap my head around, is if those damm male Medusas are so sensitive and they are all in attack mode, how is it that anyone can walk around in the woods at all without getting bitten?! :o)
Welcome Martysbaybay!
Well it looks like it's going to be Ohio State and Florida again.
Since I'm from Ohio although not a big basketball fan, I hope they do better against them than they did in football.
As for Ben, it could be that he was born -- as an DI experiment (parathagen, clone, whatever) -- on the island as he said and as he grew up, he conned his way into a leadership role within the increasingly discontented group of other "experiment-born-peeps", and then he led the Purge against the DI. So after all these years, to paraphrase J.Wood's article for this week, then the former dictatorship run by the hostiles, becomes the dictatorship run by the former hostiles. Now time has passed and it is time for Ben's dictatorship to be overturned by someone else's uprising, and he knows it. The only way Ben can keep his leadership role and control over Otherton, and to keep the upper hand, is by gaining the knowledge of the island's power that Locke has, and utilizing it. He thinks that would make his people fear and respect him once again. Just thinkin'.
Wow. I love how we on this blog get right to the meat of the episode (even when there isn't much). I think there was enough in this episode to keep us talking for a while, whether about N&P's backstory or the effect on the timeline, or B&P's little reveal in the Pearl station.
I don't think Boone is the gay character. Shannon was just being insulting, especially to someone she just slept with. She really knows how to hurt a guy!
The more we learn about our littel group of castaways the more we discover that they are quite the bunch of secret keepers, eh? Is there anyone on the island who doesn't have an element of the Liar/Con Man in him?
We can cross off Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Locke, Sayid, Rose, Hurley, Libby, Ana-Lucia, Desmond, Charlie, Shannon, Boone, Eko, ALL the Others, Danielle, Sun, Jin, and of course N&P.
Who's innocent of lies and subterfuge?
Maybe Arzt. Oops.
Bernard?
Claire? Nope. Lied about her dad dying when she was small. She knows better (she doesn't know he died recently though.)
I guess it's like Locke told P. Everyone is entitled to their secrets.
(Just don't bury them on the beach!)
Hi Amused, who did Hurley lie to or con? Hasn't he been mostly truthful to a fault?
And I know this is late (about 300 posts or so!) but Melissa Lossa I totally agree with your idea on why Ben wanted the Swan button to not be pushed. Right after seeing TMFT I posted this:
Amused2bHere said...
I think I finally have an explanation for why Ben might have wanted them to stop pushing the button: Ben wanted the island to be cut off from the outside world.
WhY? Because he wants the Others to really accept life on the island as their home. He knew communication would cease, and the sonar too. Once "his people" adjusted to the fact that they were really there permanently, they would come to accept their new circumstances and finally "make the committment" to fully invest their lives there. Ben doesn't care about going to the outside world, the island has been the only home he's ever known. And he's lonely. He's tired of dealing with people who are just biding their time until somehow they get permission to go "home". If they can't leave, then the Island will become Home to them (or so Ben hopes).
Plausible?
3/22/2007 10:55:00 AM
I guess great minds DO think alike!
LOL
Capcom, Hurley wanted to keep his winnings a secret from his best friend. Ok, so he was very bad at keeping that secret, but he has his other secrets on the island (the stash of food he was hiding) and then there's the things that we agree he should keep hidden, like seeing Dave, having stayed in a mental hospital, causing the deck to fall and killing 2 people. oh, yeah, Hurley's hiding something....
ok, maybe I'm stretching a little bit
Interesting discussion about secrets Amused2behere and Capcom. One of the reasons I've always loved this show is it's realistic enough for me to look for myself in the survivors. What would I do if I'd been in the Fusie section of Flight 815 and had survived?
So as a corollary to your discussion: What secrets would I keep? What might I run across on the Island that I wouldn't tell the others about?
Of course part of the problem is that the A-team characters for the most part don't give everyone else enough information to be able to say "I found this thing in the jungle and think it's important." If it's not food, shelter, etc. would I consider it important?
Which does not excuse N**** and P****'s failure to mention the Pearl Hatch which would have provided shelter and protection especially at the end of Season 1 when "The OTHERS were coming."
I think P**** should be let off the hook about Ben though because it was Jack's decision not to tell anyone else about him.
Maven's in Palm Springs! I live in Palm Springs. I would have loved the opportunity to have met the woman behind the fabulous timeline.
Just catching up on the discussion.
Hey, lady lost! Would have loved to have met up with you in Palm Springs. Unfortunately, I'm leaving this morning! :( Maybe some other time (I have cousins there, and I'm sure we'll be visitng them again.)
Re reocurring themes: Yes, it does seem everyone has issues. Defintely daddy issues and secrets. And a lot of con artists, too. I do notice that when a group of people are thrust together, it does take a while for everyone's past to come out. They reveal themselves little by little as they get more comfortable with each other or are forced to tell more (just like what's happening on the show). Even us TLCer's tell more and more about ourselves the longer we post here! LOL
Sorry about the Bruins, Memphish and Dennis! :(
I know I have not been here in a few weeks but, HEY ALL!!! I am glad they are gone, hopefully gone, or whatever, I did not like those two at all...although RAZZLE DAZZLE was a highlight and I say it all the time. I am thinking this show is making the climb up the ramp the jumping the shark!!!
Hey, Thrasher! Long time no see! Welcome back. How are things going, newlywed?
I hate to say it, but could they come back after Vincent digs them out? Hahahaha
Hi Loco's,
I think I have Post-Lostum Depression.
Memphish,maybe the good Dr.(congrats),can verify this.
With my schedule,I don't get a chance to really visit with you Lost peeps until the weekend.By then, the episode is mostly all talked out;mostly.This depresses me.Although,I have been spending alot of time lately watching those pesky Gators.After this week,I'll have more time.(that is,until our Grandsons come for a month.)I may have to lurk a bit, but it will be worth it.
Maven,I have a Grandma tip for you...
**************SPOILER**************
or
************SPOILIM****************
Once again the discussions were awesome this week. It was good to see Boone & Shannon again.Can that girl scream,or what?I did think that David and "the Goog" had a better podcast than ABC'S.(Even with Juliet).
Lots of Lost love,
Village
Hello LoCo's! I've been out a few days courtesy of a stomach virus, but am almost back to normal...and I must say I'm VERY impressed to see that we've managed 365 comments for this episode. Boy we can analyze and talk about anything can't we? You guys are amazing! Haven't caught up on them all, but can't imagine adding anything good. Can't wait til tomorrow's podcast!
(We are getting one tomorrow aren't we Passafist? Is it going to be dedicated to N & P? Did we ever take a vote on whether we thought they were iconic?- I would say no)
*&%)@## blogger-it's not even giving me a wv, so how am I supposed to post this?!
Hey, Scoutpost! Sorry to hear about your tummy! :(
Yeah, I think this episode is pretty much talked out.
I hate when no WV happens!
Hey, random thought time.
Continuing what I was saying before about the Island spawning things, such as Kates Horse, Sayids Cat, Vincent, and of course Lockes Father.
But here is another spawner - How about Suns unborn child!
Memphish, What secrets would I keep? Hmmm...what secrets do I keep?
wink!
Back on Thursday afternoon, Lisa said, “…the answer is in the “Razzle Dazzle!”
Thanks for that, Lisa, cuz it made me go and Google the term “Razzle Dazzle”, and, boy o’ boy, did I find something totally cool!
Wiki states:
“Dazzle camouflage, also known as Razzle Dazzle or Dazzle painting, was a camouflage paint scheme used on ships, mainly during World War I. It consisted of a complex pattern of geometric shapes in contrasting colors, interrupting and intersecting each other. At first glance it seems like an unlikely form of camouflage, drawing attention to the ship rather than hiding it. DAZZLE CAMOUFLAGE HAD A VERY SPECIFIC PURPOSE, however, which was to make it difficult to estimate the target ship's speed and heading and so disrupt the performance of the visual rangefinders used for naval artillery at the time. IN OTHER WORDS, ITS PURPOSE WAS CONFUSION, RATHER THAN CONCEALMENT!”
This got me excited because, as we know, “Razzle Dazzle” was Nikki’s war cry on her stupid tv show. She camouflaged herself as a stripper, but was really an undercover…what? A Charlie’s Angel wanna-be? A spy? A cop? In fact, she wore five camouflages: A stripper, a spy/cop, an actress, a murderess, and a plane-crash survivor.
Anyway, whatever she was on her tv show, it seemed to set the tone for this entire episode of Lost. True to the meaning of the term “Razzle Dazzle”, I think that this entire show was loaded with clues and meanings, but was wrapped up in confusing and complex patterns meant to camouflage its true purposes.
I was so caught up with the Hitchcockian story of Nikki & Paulo that I almost forgot about the other things that were shown, such as Charlie confessing to Sun about his crime against her.
This epi also made me feel that N&P could be almost directly blamed for the deaths of Boone, Ana Lucia, and Libby, because of their failure to tell anyone about the plane in the tree and the Pearl hatch (Paulo seeing the visitation by Juliet & Ben, and the conversation that he overheard). Gr-r-r-r!
I’m not fully caught up with all the comments, so I hope that this hasn’t already been posted.
This theme of camouflage was also carried forward by the use of the Matryoshka (nesting) dolls. Inside these dolls, at the core, was hidden a bag of diamonds.
The dolls are used as a metaphor for successively hidden layers of meaning, each being a step to the next level of revelation. (Quoting Lostpedia.)
So, now we have two things: Razzle Dazzle camouflage, and Matryoshka dolls representing hidden layers of meaning.
Sheesh! And what, pray tell, do the diamonds represent? All the secrets of the Lost Island?
Hmmm...if the Matryoshka dolls represent something important, then what are we to glean from Paulo smashing the dolls into little pieces after removing them from the toilet tank?
Wow...I'm really overanalyzing this show now! Ha ha!
Friday's child: Great insights into the episode. Also, the dialog foreshadowed a lot and had hidden meanings. The most blatant one was N's comment on being a guest star and how they're killed off. And N & P not wanting to end up like Shannon and Boone (which, of course, they do).
Hi, Maven! Thanks for the compliment! I'm glad you mentioned about N&P ending up like Shannon & Boone. That thought had popped into my head too, but only after I re-watched the show.
Gotta go watch Apprentice: LA!
Well Razzle Frickin' Dazzle friday's_child. Great stuff. Who knew it was more than a silly phrase. I've been singing the refrain "Give 'Em the Ole Razzle Dazzle" from the movie Chicago in my head all weekend and now I have a better understanding of that too. I always just thought it meant something like to be blindingly spectacular, but I like intendeded to create confusion better.
As for the nesting dolls, I always wondered why they bothered to keep the diamonds in any or all of them. Wouldn't it be easier to hide only the smallest doll or to hide the little velvet bag? I'm assuming they checked the bag that contained the diamonds to avoid the x-ray machine in security.
Good luck Gators and Buckeye Fans tonight. I think we have both around here. I'm looking forward to watching the game. I think it's a real marquis match-up.
http://www.archive.org/download/TLCpodcast18/finished.mp3
new podcast yeah!!!!
NEW POST!!!!
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