Monday, April 02, 2007

The Lost Community Podcast - Episode 18

Episode 18 unpacks that April's Fools Episode of ABC's Hit Television Show Lost "Expose", Along the way hosts David A Dein and Steve "the Goog" Guglich, discuss the hidden meaning behind "Razzle Dazzle" and get chastised for not agreeing with the Official Lost Podcast. Join in the fun by sending your e-mails and MP3 comments to TLCpodcast@gmail.com or call our listener line at 732-564-4763.

The music was provided by Sarah Hethcoat. Used by permission. For more information check out sarahhethcoat.com or myspace.com/sarahscoats.

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169 comments:

JGZ350 said...

Good Morning Loco's

What is up?

It's always nice to be first-

thinbluemime said...

Good Morning, Mr Phelps :)

Dennis said...

Good morning Locos!

STILL no AMEX Lost Moments :(

InEnglandAndLost said...

Hey Dennis - It says that there will be no more Lost moments on the site!!!

Oh and 4th I think?!

memphish said...

I heard an interesting idea about the spiders in a podcast. The idea was that Smokey is so far ahead like a master chess player that he led Arzt to the spiders. Then he just watched his little scheme play out with P**** and N****.

Erich said...

I'm only 10 minutes into the podcast, but I'm feeling pretty good that David has basically the same opinion as me, about this episode being a big joke.

Not that I'd ever be smug...

maven said...

Morning all: Top Ten!

Hey, Memphish: I guess everything happens for a reason...

Going to listen to podcast...

thinbluemime said...

A Joke!? A Joke?!

In a letter to William Saroyan, dated 14 February 1940, O'Brien explained the strange plot of The Third Policeman:
... When you get to the end of this book you realize that my hero or main character (he's a heel and a killer) has been dead throughout the book and that all the queer ghastly things which have been happening to him are happening in a sort of hell which he earned for the killing ... It is made clear that this sort of thing goes on for ever ... When you are writing about the world of the dead – and the damned – where none of the rules and laws (not even the law of gravity) holds good, there is any amount of scope for back-chat and funny cracks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Policeman

OOhhh, A Joke! :)

thinbluemime said...

memphish, How long do you think we will have to wait before Greg Nation responds to the newspaper question?

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=74387

I do not visit thefuselage often, so I have no idea what a typical wait time would be. And I guess I am impatient :)

memphish said...

TBM, I keep checking, but it doesn't look like he's been there in a bit of a while. Seems like him posting would be the easiest way for TPTB to address the question. Maybe it will come up in the next OLP or with Kristen or Ausiello. I avoid Kristen and Ausiello, so if anyone who does follow them finds out what's the deal with the newspaper date, TBM and I would like to know.

LuckyGuyLikeMe said...

David and Steve,

Great podcast once again. I like the idea of getting together and renting the movie theater and all that. I would definitely drive out there to join.

And DarkAngel, it's great to hear from you again!

maven said...

Having listened to the podcast, I can only agree that the episode was a joke for the Lost fan base. There were many inside jokes and innuendos that had to be directed at the die-hard fans (like us). Such as N saying guest stars are killed off; Sawyer constantly saying "Who are you?"; the "forensic hatch" line, etc. So I don't think it was a joke in the sense that it was a waste of time, but it was TPTB listening to us (not that I think we can actually change the direction of the show by complaining about something...everything is preplanned months in advance. But I think they listen and react to us.)

Great to hear from Dark Angel again. So cute when Little Angel yelled out "Daddy"!

Codysmom said...

LOL, cows well-done:)

Dark Angel!!!!!!!!!

Melissa_Lossa said...

Hey, everyone!

I've been busy the last couple of days, but as I was catching up, I noticed that diggity and amused2behere both supported my "why Ben didn't want the button pushed" theory after I left. Just wanted to say thanks!

Although it looks as though I may have accidently stole that theory from amused in the first place! ;)

Great minds DO think alike!

ExperimentalFilm said...

its an interesting idea that expose was in essence a joke .. but i wish it wasn't . yeah, i get it, people dont like paulo and nikki (and no, we don't have to keep saying their names in code as if we dont know who we're talking about) . but if it really was just a response from tptb to our stupid rants and theories, thats kinda stupid . it played NO part whatsoever into the story of lost and it was a waste of time and episode - assuming that it was, in fact, a way to kill them both off .

so yeah whatever lost people read what we say . that's cute . but i wish i would just go back to the freakin way it was when they told the story of LOST to tell the story of LOST . not to please the fans .

capcom said...

From previous thread:

OK, you've got me there Amused about Hurley's screts, he does indeed have them! His money, his stint in the psych-ward, etc! He's just so dang innocent and guile-less all the time, I forgot about his secrets. As in, how could a puppydog of a person like that have secrets? :-)

Memphish, good question about secrets. I don't tend to open up to people I know let alone a bunch of airplane strangers. But if I got myself on one of the teams on the island, I would start to warm up to them a llittle if they proved themselves trustworthy with confidentialities.

Ladylost, you LIVE in Palm Springs???? OK, I have officially died a green death of envy. :o)

Village: Post-Lostum-Depression is a great new word for us! I have feeling that we will be using it a lot this coming summer, fall, and half of a winter. :-(

Friday: that is a great point about N&P having a large percentage of responsibility for all the carnage that happened concerning those things that they saw and did not have the presence of mind to think about sharing!

OK, now to read this page and catch up.

memphish said...

EF, Along those lines I think a lot of what's been going on with some of the program development we've seen this season goes to a tension between old school TV programming notions as exemplified by Carleton Cuse and new school as exemplified by Damon Lindeloff.

A number of times I've heard CC say in interviews "More people are interested in who Kate picks than the Island mysteries," and with respect to Nikki and Paolo I've heard him say several times "People always wonder about what the background people are up to. That's why we had Nikki and Paolo." To me both these statements about what the viewership wants represents old school thinking. The people I talk to and in the places I hang, CC's views do not represent the viewers I know which includes friends and relatives who are mere casual viewers.

Ironically, I think an episode like Expose is more likely to alienate the casual viewer who doesn't get the inside nods and winks that people who go to message boards get. You just left his hanging with major drama, a huge reveal, and you give us T&A action?

Looking forward to listening to the podcast while I mow my lawn (which I'm not looking forward to.)

Dennis said...

memphish said... I heard an interesting idea about the spiders in a podcast. The idea was that Smokey is so far ahead like a master chess player that he led Arzt to the spiders. Then he just watched his little scheme play out with P**** and N****.

I think Arzt was just making stuff up about spiders and discovering new species to impress Nikki. He was just a high-school science teacher, how much could he possible know about that field? He also claimed to be the dynamite expert... how did that go?

I don't think there is such a thing as a Medusa spider - the spider that Nikki threw at Paulo was a regular spider. I think the Island paralyzed Paulo because Nikki "wished" it and the island made it so. This is what summoned Smokey.

After Paulo was paralyzed, he saw Smokey, and Smokey "summoned" the other spiders, because that's how Nikki thought it would work. Paulo's revenge "wish" was that Nikki would be paralyzed too.

capcom said...

Wow, I have to say that I think that I totally like the idea that we, the viewers, were the recipients of a big fat "GOTCHA!" from TPTB with the "Nikki and Xerxes" episode! On those terms, the way you explained it on your blog Erich, I like it and it's pretty funny to me. (gold plaited air, heh-heh). April Fools indeed. :o)

Memphish, what you said (old/new school) is what I have been mulling over in my mind too for a while. One thing that makes Lost so compelling to me is how TPTB do mix the old TV traditional craft with some new tactics - that they are totally creating themselves. And I don't mean like the things that started in the 1990s like blue/orange screen coloring, jiggly cameras, etc. To me that stuff was transitional unartistic crap that some did to change out of old school, without having to actually come up with something new visually, or in the writing. Lost has really pushed the boundaries of TV story-telling, plot devices, etc., in the way that Rod Serling did with his teleplays and his own series. And I like how TPTB are not afraid to borrow and stand on the shoulders of the TV giants, as well as utilizing all new devices for Lost.

memphish said...

Capcom, I agree the show does manage old and new ideas pretty well, but as for thinking that the triangle and the background people (not to mention Jack's tatts) are really what people want to know, I think there it's missed the boat (sub?) I'm willing to bet that CC has reigned in some totally crazy ideas that would send people over the edge in the other direction as well.

Administrator said...

I'm listening right now...just left my first message on the Podcast phone line. I hope they use it!

I still laugh everytime they bleep P & N's names. :)

Tim said...

Hmmm. Is it a problem if I was just walking outside my office and could SWEAR I saw the smoke monster disappear behind a tree?

maven said...

Memphish said: I agree the show does manage old and new ideas pretty well, but as for thinking that the triangle and the background people (not to mention Jack's tatts) are really what people want to know, I think there it's missed the boat (sub?)

I don't necessarily think it's what people (fans)want to know, it's what ABC executives probably think we want to know. Network execs usually want a love interest, some comic relief, and probably some explanation of simple things that won't give away too much of the overall direction of the show.

capcom said...

Agreed Memphish, tattoos and love triangles do not interest me in the slightest bit! And as for background peeps, what about the ones that we already know and love but have not seen or heard since S2, TPTB? And the ones that got killed off?! sniff

But unfortunately, to get a broad sweep of ratings, I suppose that they have to deliver to the fringes of their show's demographic as well as the solid center (of viewer-intelligence numbers, not viewer-age numbers). Or else Lost would not get enough viewers for the sponsors and it would go to the graveyard for all the other excellent uniquely intelligent/quirky TV shows that only lasted a couple seasons.

Having said that though, I hope that we are done with the gratuitous T&A and stripper plotlines in the show for this season!! ((sorry Dennis)) :o)

capcom said...

Ditto Maven.

Melissa_Lossa said...

I almost thought, after seeing this episode, was that they really wanted to do a story about being buried alive, but didn't want to have any of the main characters die such a grusome death, so they invented these two nitwits.

Frankly, I was satisfied with how much we saw the "red shirts" on the island. I was content to laugh at the Steve/Scott joke and just assume that everyone else was plugging along in the background. I'm okay with just the occasional crowd shot. I didn't like how they tried to play off Nikki and Paulo like they had always been there - suddenly, they're all chummy with everyone. It seemed very unnatural to me.

JGZ350 said...

Hi there memphish and capcom, but I too and any normal male that watched 'Expose', enjoyed the gratuitous T&A and stripper plotlines. Nikki never looked so good. I thought it was a refreshing change of pace to show some eye candy for the male species. Heck, it seems like the ladies get a shirtless Sawyer every other episode.

Dennis said...

ExperimentalFilm said... its an interesting idea that expose was in essence a joke .. but i wish it wasn't . yeah, i get it, people dont like paulo and nikki (and no, we don't have to keep saying their names in code as if we dont know who we're talking about) . but if it really was just a response from tptb to our stupid rants and theories, thats kinda stupid . it played NO part whatsoever into the story of lost and it was a waste of time and episode - assuming that it was, in fact, a way to kill them both off .

I don't buy that they were killed off because the fans don't like them - I think it was planned. Nikki and Paulo were the only way to reveal the Juliet and Ben back story. Any other characters that could have seen that event, we would now hate them. Everyone already hated Nikki & Paulo, so it works out perfectly.

In fact, TPTB are almost Ben-like in their brilliance. They introduced two character knowing that we wouldn't like them and then killed them to please the masses.

In defense of Paulo, he may not have known that Jack's last name is Shepard. Could he see the TV's from the bathroom? He also may not have known that the Michael they were talking about was Walt's dad.

There's no excuse for Nikki - she's just a gold digga!

capcom said...

But JGZ, Sawyer doesn't straddle-swing on a pole, or wear a short dress and bend over with the camera 'thisclose' to his whazzoo. :-p

And Dez only saves drowning people with his shirt off, all very necessary to the plot! But you're right, I guess Dezzie's nekkidity after the Purpling really wasn't paramount to the story -- that we know of for now. I'm sure TPTB have a very good reason for it down the line, heh-heh.

I guess that we'll just have to call a truce on this subject, everyone wants their eye candy. :-) But no more Bai Ling, I beg of TPTB.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Mmmm..... nekkid Desmond.....


Sorry. What were we talking about?

capcom said...

Yep Dennis, perhaps we were set up for this episode! Great move for TPTB. We're not worthy! :-D

And I can totally see N&P not knowing who to tell what to, since they didn't socialize as much as the main characters and the had diamonds on the brain.

capcom said...

LOL Melissa.

Erich said...

Gotta agree with Dennis. I don't think N&P got offed 'cause the fans hated them, I think they were introduced to give the fans characters get worked up about. They had to know we'd hate them, which is why the final "joke" worked so well.

If we liked them and they died for no reason (other than self-destructive greed) we'd be mad; and if we didn't care about them and they died the way they did we'd say "Paulo and Nikki who?"

Joss Wolfe said...

"if we didn't care about them and they died the way they did we'd say "Paulo and Nikki who?" "

But you see the thing is the average person did say Paulo and Nikki who? This show is dying. I for one hate the direction it is going. If you use 12 episodes of a primetime drama only as the setup for some lame hitchcock joke your show is not good anymore. I think lindelov and Cuse have shit on this entire series past the point of now return. this show did jump the shark. When the LARP you give your fans have more substance than your show you are in trouble

capcom said...

I'm sorry Josh, really sorry, but I totally disagree with that.

I can't discard an entire 2 1/2 seasons if I don't like (or comprehend the way TPTB would like me to) one or two episodes per season.

And if they have pooped on their series, well, it's their series to poop on. I'm still going along for the fun and the ride, and I would advise anyone else to do that as well.

memphish said...

jgz350 said, Hi there memphish and capcom, but I too and any normal male that watched 'Expose', enjoyed the gratuitous T&A and stripper plotlines. Nikki never looked so good. I thought it was a refreshing change of pace to show some eye candy for the male species. Heck, it seems like the ladies get a shirtless Sawyer every other episode.

We even got shirtless Sawyer in this episode! See attached avatar. Hopefully wet handcuffed girls fighting in a jungle will be about the last of the "action adventure/romance/whatever it is they're going for" cliches.

And don't get me wrong. I can't wait for the Rumble in the Jungle.

capcom said...

LOL Memphish, "action adventure/romance/whatever" in our jungle sounds like "Romancing the Stone", heehee. What would Lost be then, "Romancing the [[fill-in-the-blank]]"? Maybe "romancing the jabbone", to use Sawyer's new word. ((sorry to Italians, I'm German and don't know how to spell that word)) :o)

maven said...

You guys always give me a big laugh! "Rumble in the Jungle" LOL, Memphish

I hope there's a lot more to it than what we saw in the promos. At least there better be a good reason those two are together. BTW...why is it always raining on poor Kate?

memphish said...

Maven asked, why is it always raining on poor Kate?

I guess she's kind of like PigPen from Charlie Brown and carries her own cloud around though hers is rain while PigPen's is dirt.

maven said...

That's exactly what I was thinking!

ExperimentalFilm said...

i have a quesstionn ..

why is paolo so weird and buggin out and aloof when nikki finds him right after the crash ? he's staring off into the distance, which i guess could be shock from the plane .. but i can't help thinking it means something else .

Friday's_Child said...

Hi, guys!

ef: Yeh, I've wondered about Paulo's glassy-eyed stare too.

HAS it been explained yet?

Friday's_Child said...

I mean, Paulo was staring out at the OCEAN. Why? Was it just shock, or did he see something?

Sayid'sgirl said...

Congratulations Florida Gators fans! This was your guys year.

maven said...

Evening, gang: I think it was discussed that P was in shock. People react strange after what they went through. Shannon was just screaming! Although it was speculated that he might have seen Smokey!

takes a village said...

Chomp,chomp,chomp,Gulp; Ahhhhhhh! ~m<

Dennis said...

Now the only question is - who is Florida going to get for a coach next year?

maven said...

The new Kristen/EOnline article is out. Of course, it has some spoilers in it.

Joss Wolfe said...

I figured out why the Others have anthony cooper in their closet. They asked the "BOX" to deliver sawyer to them, and thinking they would get James Ford they got duh duh duh... the real SAWYER!

LostIt said...

Melissa, you beat me to it! I was going make yummy sounds about shirtless sawyer, but nekkid desmond is even better. Mmmmmmmm.....


About the speculation concerning who the gay character is, it can't be Boone. Hasn't it already been well established that he had a secret crush on step-sister Shannon? I think Shannon was just being Shannon with her remarks to Boone.

Interesting thought, Joss, about the box and Sawyer.

memphish said...

Maven, is there any word in Kristen about the newspaper date or any other clarifications? If there are please post them here.

EF, that stare bugs me too. It's like he's blind. Maybe it's supposed to represent the moment the scales fall off his eyes and he realizes that love is more important that diamonds only to be confronted with "diamonds are more important" Nikki.

Takes a Village - congrats to your daughter's alma mater. It was a good game though it ended even later than LOST. I better go to bed really early tonight to get ready for tomorrow.

Dennis do you really think Billy Donovan would step into the Lion's Den that is Kentucky basketball? It's like being the Alabama football coach. You have to be a pretty tough SOB to handle it, and I hear Nick Saban is. Is Donovan?

memphish said...

I was just looking at the promo photos for Expose on ABC.com. Several are weird. First there seem to be two from Not in Portland, one of Alex and one of Kate and Sawyer. Alex wasn't in the episode was she?

Then there are several photos during the sky turning purple and Nikki apparently very upset about it afterward and Paolo comforting her. I heard the Hatch door was supposed to almost hit her, but since it really almost hit Claire, I'm glad they didn't add that.

Then they show some closeups of the other graves including Ana Lucia's. You can also see the shell of Eko's church behind the graveyard. And Vincent doesn't have a collar in the picture.

Ironically, they don't have an accented e either, so in the photo section the episode is entitled "Expos".

memphish said...

Sorry for the 3 posts in a row, but I forgot to say for redshirts, very few redshirts came to Nikki and Paolo's funeral. Maybe 6 of the 20-30 that are supposed to still be there.

Dennis said...

memphish said... Dennis do you really think Billy Donovan would step into the Lion's Den that is Kentucky basketball? It's like being the Alabama football coach. You have to be a pretty tough SOB to handle it, and I hear Nick Saban is. Is Donovan?

I don't follow sports like I follow Lost, but what I hear is that Billy Donovan will move to KY because:
• More money - 1.3M vs 3+M. Tubby Smith was the highest paid coach in the NCAA tournament.
• Florida is a football school, so they can't afford to pay Donovan more than Urban Meyer, and if Donovan gets a raise, Meyer will want a raise too.
• Florida was the national champion last year, but they only sold out one game last year? The O-Dome only holds 12,000 people - UK regularly sells out it's 24,000 seat Rupp Arena.
• Donovan has already worked at UK under Rick Pitino.

The biggest obstacle I see is the potential Three-peat. Especially if Noah, Brewer, Horford, and Green return for a senior year, although I don't have any idea how likely that is.

Congratulations Florida. You were definitely the best team.

CattyGirl said...

I'm ready for a Northeast Lost viewing meet. :) Count me +1

ExperimentalFilm said...

indeed, memphish .. the photos for expose WERE weird .. not only was it spelled 'expos' but there were 42 photos .. the numbers return ! :P

but forreal .. i kinda wish theyd left the scene with the purple sky in . im curious as to why nikki is so upset .

maven said...

Morning!

Memphish asked: Maven, is there any word in Kristen about the newspaper date or any other clarifications? If there are please post them here.

Sorry, Memphish, not a mention of the newspaper dating issue. A lot of hype about the season finale (nothing specific).

maven said...

Just had to post because my WV was "oldye". LOL

Looked at the ABC photos...loved that it was 42 pics. Yes, there were a couple that were not part of "Expos" (do they not know how to put the accent over the last e so they decided not to put it in at all!)

scoutpost said...

Good morning!
I will be glad when there is a new episode to discuss. I'm worn out over Paulo and Nikki (may they rest in peace).
I just can't decide where I come down on Expose. Can't decide if I think it was really a big joke, or if it really has some significance that we will discover later. I have to say that I am a sucker for trusting TPTB that they will deliver the goods with LOST like they say they will, and so I'm (perhaps naively) believing that they have not jumped the shark here.
Bring on the cat fight! (Even though I want Kate to win, I hope it's not too one sided...where would be the fun in that?)

Dennis said...

FYI, They have all of those promotional photos at Lost-Media, but you can view them in hi-res, and there are 80 total for Exposé.


scoutpost said...Bring on the cat fight! (Even though I want Kate to win, I hope it's not too one sided...where would be the fun in that?)

Hopefully, it will turn into a Miller light commercial :) I got an idea for the ending...

Dennis said...

Friday's_Child said... I mean, Paulo was staring out at the OCEAN. Why? Was it just shock, or did he see something?

Maybe he saw Ethan arriving in the submarine!

Melissa_Lossa said...

Paulo looked like he was seeing something really strange, although I guess it could have just been shock. I don't know, it was odd.

Friday's Child, I love your new avatar! Glad to see I'm not the only Charmed fan around here!

memphish said...

There's a lot of things still off to me about Paolo. Why on Day 24 (otherwise known as the day Nikki wears a bikini top) does Paolo say: You should have gone to Ethan. He would have helped. This is over a week after Claire was taken. If he's going for irony, I didn't get it.

memphish said...

At this point, I'm ready for Left Behind, but I'm willing to bet that one or two of the holes that seem to exist in the Nikki and Paolo story may be plugged in the future. After all, to paraphrase Howie Zuckerman they can bring them back next year.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Hmmm... good question about Ethan, memphish. I'm not good enough at the timelines to notice stuff like that.

Tim said...

Ah Ethan.

"Can I help you find some sweatpants?"

So creepy.

memphish said...

I can't figure out why Ethan would encourage Nikki and Paolo to go into the jungle either. You'd think the Others wouldn't want them wandering off.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Ha, ha - my husband, who does not watch Lost, happened to be in the room when it was on last week. When Ethan first popped up, he said, "Wow. Who's that creepy guy?" Ethan just rubs people the wrong way, I guess!

I don't know why he would want them in the jungle, either, unless he was hoping something would happen to them?

Amused2bHere said...

Random thought...

When the food officially runs out and they've eaten the cows, horse and the cat, will they find out who the really "good" people are?

Or just the ones who are "good with ketchup"?

LOL

just being weird...

memphish said...

Amused2behere, I truly love that avatar.

Do they have Dharma ketchup? And is it Heinz with a different lable? Because to me, no matter where you stand politically, Heinz ketchup rules.

More seriously, I do think a food crisis will emerge though probably not until next season.

scoutpost said...

Dennis-
well seeing that I'm a girl, can't say that I hope the cat fight ends up like that commercial. LOL I just want Juliet to live up to her evil side and not her wimpy dr. side and give Kate a few choice blows. I mean we all know that in a showdown like that Kate is going to kick Juliets butt. (don't we?)

memphish- good catch on the timeline thing with Ethan. See my line of thinking with that line in the jungle was that they were trying to hint about a Paulo/Others connection. LIke Paulo had formed a friendship with Ethan, or would form a friendship with Ethan. He seemed to trust Ethan more than Artz. Maybe Ethan was grooming Paulo and had already told him some things and Paulo was just trying to keep Nikki out of that part of the jungle. They could have gone to Ethan and he could have lied about trajectories and made a false map for them and sent them in another direction if he didn't want them to find the Pearl. eh well, don't know if this is making sense, but I guess I was reading more into that line about Ethan than what was on the surface. That's why I really think that there will be stuff from this episode that will have some sort of meaning in the upcoming episodes- like you said memphish.

scoutpost said...

Oh I should've added at the end of my comment that that timeline discrepancy doesn't make sense. I wonder what we are supposed to make of that? Did you check any other timelines to see if they have the order the same? (no offense to your timeline Maven).

memphish said...

Scoutpost, I used Lostpedia.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Accodring to Lostpedia, Ethan abducts Claire and Charlie on Day 16.

Kate and Sawyer go to the waterfall on Day 21.

Nikki and Paulo get directions from Arzt (following the trajectory of the plane) and find the Pearl on Day 24.

Claire returns on Day 27.

Ethan is killed on Day 29 and buried on Day 30.

Nikki and Paulo find the waterfall on Day 33.

I think they talk about asking Ethan for help on the day that they find the Pearl (Day 24). I guess it's possible that no one told them that Ethan took Claire, but it seems unlikely.

Melissa_Lossa said...

memphish - I was trying to defend your timeline honor, but you beat me to it! :)

scoutpost said...

Well I didn't mean to attack anyone's timeline honor! LOL I was just curious if the Lostpedia people had it right. But they probably do and I'm too lazy to do the math myself right now! That is really weird and makes no sense whatsoever. Could TPTB make that big an error? Surely not I would think....and so why DOES Paulos say that? hmmmm

memphish said...

I'm reading Saving Fish From Drowning by Amy Tan. In it (and this isn't a spoiler) a group of 11 tourists disappear in the Burmese jungle. We find out in the book where they are and that they are with a group called the Lajamee who don't want the rest of the world (or at least the Burmese government) to know where they are. The tourists are struggling with the idea of finding rescue for themselves without exposing the Lajamee. This is from p. 350 of the hardback.

[Dwight asked,] "When do we factor us into the equation for what we do?"

He had brought up their unspoken worries and a series of morally ugly questions. Whom do you save? Can you save both? Or do you save only yourself? Do you do nothing and risk nothing, or die from whatever happens to come along as you sit on a log waiting for whatever comes?

They agitated over the questions in private thought, wising to forget morals and just be out of this place. Who else had discarded morals and saved themselves? Could they live with themselves later? If they put away the concerns of the Lajamee, how soon would they push aside one another's welfare? At what point do people resort to "every man for himself?"


I think this is pretty similar to the type of thinking not only going on with our Losties, but also with the Others. Do we risk our own survival/project/whatever it is that they are protecting in order to help these other people with the potential of great risk to ourselves.

This also deals with something that's just starting to come to the forefront now in the struggle for Jack and Juliet to leave the island and the desire of Ben and Locke to prevent that. I'd guess Penny will have some role to play as well. Can some leave without exposing the Island to the rest of the world?

Just thought I'd share since there's not much to talk about on LOST eve.

memphish said...

Back to the mention of creepy Ethan by Paolo. I guess it could have been sarcastic to Nikki. "You could have asked the guy who was here before us if you'd only thought of it sooner." Something like that. I haven't rewatched to listen to his tone of voice.

memphish said...

Charlie returns to the camp with a bruised neck and moves from the caves to the beach where he mopes while everyone else moves. How can Paolo not know what's happened and who was responsible. Hurley knew and as Season 1 Arzt said, "If you want to keep a secret, don't tell the fat guy."

wv=zplayh

Dennis said...

It didn't sound sarcastic to me. It just sounds like Paulo has bad judgment. He trusts Ethan over Leslie? Ethan has always creeped me out.

It also sounds like they are totally disconnected from the other Losties. It doesn't even seem like he knows about the Charlie/Claire/Ethan incident.

Here is the scene:

PAULO: Are you sure we should be listening to a high school science teacher?
NIKKI: Junior high, and yes.
NIKKI: What's your problem with Leslie anyway?
PAULO: Leslie?
NIKKI: Hah! You're Jealous.
PAULO: Of him? Never.
NIKKI: Yeah, his spiders turn me on so much, I had to sleep with him to get the map.
PAULO: I wouldn't be surprised. You slept with Zuckerman.
NIKKI: I did that for us.
PAULO: OK, I'm sorry, I just, I don't trust that guy.
PAULO: We should have gone to Ethan, he would have helped.

memphish said...

How did blogger all of a sudden put my post ahead of Dennis? I read Dennis' before I posted.

maven said...

Scoutpost said: Did you check any other timelines to see if they have the order the same? (no offense to your timeline Maven).

NP, Scoutpost. My Timeline is only for The Lost Experience, separate from the show. Lostpedia's show timeline is probably pretty accurate.

Codysmom said...

Happy Lost Eve...

I went to ABC's photo section after memphis mentioning it and looked at TMFT pictures also, just for fun. I noticed #13 shows Tom with a cigar or cigarette in his mouth while he's playing football with Jack. I didn't notice that when I watched the show. I know we were debating if it was Tom or Paulo who left the butt in the Pearl; maybe this clears that up.

memphish said...

Good catch Codysmom. So Tom is a smoker, but is he gay? Oh the mysteries of LOST. Hard to believe that smokers could be on Jacob's list.

Can't wait until tomorrow night. All these shows in a row. It rocks. (Tries not to think about potential break from May 2007-Jan 2008.)

Dennis, tell me how that post moved or I'm going to assume I'm seeing flashes.

Codysmom said...

Who's to say Jacob is so great?

memphish, like your new avatar... is it a baby polar bear?

Dennis said...

You are not seeing Flashes Before Your Eyes...I reposted my post to fix some spelling errors, and you sneaked in on me :)

In response to your question, didn't Charlie have amnesia for a while?

capcom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
capcom said...

Thanks for the Amy Tan book info Memphish, that is an interesting parallel. I like Amy Tan.

I also can't believe that an Other would be allowed to smoke, or that they would even get shipments of smokes to the island (unless Tom rolls his own, I guess that they could grow tobakkee on the island). Wait till Locke finds out that some hypocrite is smoking cigs on his precious island!

Codysmom said...

Actually, if it was Tom who's job was to watch the Swan, he has lots of info on our Losties. When he says Kate is not his type, maybe it's not because he's gay, but because he has gotten to "know" her by watching her on the Pearl's tv's.

It seems like Tom really likes Jack. At least he's having fun playing football with him and he gives Jack the heads up about the fact that the rec-room is bugged (when Jack goes to talk to Kate). Of course, he does throw (and catch) like a girl, so..... (ok, maybe gay).

I think Tom may feel like he knows these crash survivors pretty well after watching them for so long.

memphish said...

Capcom, I figure Tom grows his own like Mikhail grew his own tea. I figure John can't be too critical with his ganga past.

Codysmom, that's the German baby polar bear Knut that's all over the internet these days.

Dennis, Charlie did have amnesia of sorts but he says to Jack That's all they wanted. referring to Claire. So he knew there was more than one, and Ethan of course disappeared after this and he wasn't on the manifest, so it doesn't take LoCos to put 2 and 2 together. That's what Paolo needed, LoCos.

capcom said...

Yeah, but at the time, Locke's hippie family wasn't growing potsky on his Precioussssssssssss island! :o)

Awww, Knut! So glad they saved him! Klondike and Snow were cuties too when they were little-uns.

Ew, I wonder if Tom is a Peeping Tom!

memphish said...

What's good for one family is good for the next, and there shouldn't be any pesky, pretending to be your nephew coppers. I wonder if Locke ever saw the Geronimo Jackson album in the Hatch and thought back to Eddie.

wv=duejon

memphish said...

Capcom, you should definitely consider reading Saving Fish From Drowning. The more I read, the more it contains the ingredients I love from LOST--characters with traits good and bad you can locate in yourself; exotic locales; interpersonal dramas; the feeling that anyone could die anytime. And Amy Tan is a great writer. I've actually owned this book for over a year, and it's sat on my shelf waiting for me. Hopefully I'm going to finish it tonight or at worst before LOST tomorrow.

capcom said...

Roger that Memphish, I will read it! Thanks. :-)

Twinkle said...

I thought the Official Lost Podcast said that Boone's hair was his real hair. Oops!

Could the Smoke Monster be a swarm of spiders?

Can't wait to watch the episode!

memphish said...

What all phobias came up during the episode? Spiders, potentially heights (with the drug plane), the dark (the Pearl Hatch), claustrophobia (the burying alive), there's probably some phobia of being paralyzed and not able to communicate too. And Rose way back in the Pilot was a little afraid of flying. Any other phobias?

Friday's_Child said...

Hi, Memphish!
I read 'Saving Fish From Drowning' last year, and still get a gut-wrenching feeling when I think about the ending. Not to give anything away though...

I've read all of Amy Tan's books, and they're among my favorites.

memphish said...

Hey Friday's_child. Glad to see we've got a little Amy Tan fan club around here.

maven said...

Amy Tan's book sounds very intriguing. Think it'll be next on my list.

Hey, Twinkle...where've you been?

capcom said...

Ladies, Amy Tan's Joy Luck Club is fantastic also. I admit that I only have seen the movie (a zillion times) and not read the book yet (plan to), but it's very poignant and heart wrenching. Not sad in a schmaltzy way, but very telling of some of the unfair plights and events that often darken women's lives - not only Asian women, even tho it's about Asian women - down through the generations. Very, very good. You go away from the story feeling stronger, the way that some of the women in the story did.

Hey Twinkle! Hope you're catching up!

Friday's_Child said...

Maven, I'll bet you've heard of, or seen, the movie, "The Joy Luck Club"? That was based on an Amy Tan book. She only writes a book every 4-5 years, darn it!

Friday's_Child said...

Ha ha, capcom! We were both on the exact same wavelength!!

memphish said...

Joy Luck Club is probably my favorite Amy Tan novel. I've read it a couple of times.

capcom said...

Right Friday! :o) You can't talk about Amy Tan without mentioning that one!

capcom said...

Hope the men don't mind the off topic chat, but how did the movie compare with the book Memphish? Did it stick fairly close? Tx.

maven said...

Friday's child: Yeah, I read it and saw the movie. I'm a big mah jongg player, and that played a big role in the character's lives. LOL

memphish said...

The movie does a pretty good job, but the book just has so much more. I'll take 400 pages over 2 hours any day.

memphish said...

Night all. Going to try to finish the book. Less than 25 hours until new LOST (Eastern and Central time at least.)

Friday's_Child said...

Nighty night, Memphish. Enjoy the ending of the book.

maven said...

At least we all like to read so we have something in common with Sawyer!

Friday's_Child said...

10-4, Maven! I've been a huge book reader all my life. When I was only ten, I snuck off with my mom's copy of "Valley of the Dolls". She nearly killed me when she found out!

maven said...

That book was considered so risque for it's time...no wonder she nearly killed you!

Friday's_Child said...

Not to mention 'Peyton Place', and 'Rosemary's Baby'. Mom never found out about those!!

maven said...

Well, I guess everyone's taking the night off to gear up for Lost Wednesday!

Friday's_Child said...

Ayup. I got so bored talking about N&P that I actually started browsing through the Lostpedia website, looking for trivia that I hadn't seen before.

I found that photo of the Geronimo Jackson album cover HERE and was nearly convinced that the man standing in the back was Tom! A young, hippie Tom, yes, but well, what do you think?

maven said...

Could be, Friday's child! He would be about the right age, too! Hahahaha

Friday's_Child said...

Well, I'm going to call it a night too.

See ya tomorrow night after Lost!!

memphish said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
memphish said...

Happy LOST Day LoCos!

SPOILER WARNING!!!!

I'm going to give you the Doc Jensen link, but be warned that the headline has spoilers in it. Do not click this link and think you won't know in part what's going to be happening tonight.

Having said that, I'm not reading the article until post-episode and I'm hoping the relatively small amount of coffee I've had will allow me to forget what I saw.

thinbluemime said...

Thanks for the link memphish!

"Tis better to be frustrated and confused than to be bored" - Lindelof-Cuse paraphrased

:)

JGZ350 said...

Good Morning Locos
A tremendous Lost day to you-

Thanks for the link memphish, but I too will be strong and not read until after I have seen tonight's episode, 'Left Behind'.
Who is Amy Tan?

memphish said...

Morning jgz350,

Amy Tan is a Chinese American author who lives in the Bay Area. Joy Luck Club about 4 mothers and daughters was made into a movie and is her first and most famous novel. She's also written a few children's books. And she's in Rock Bottom Remainders, a band made up of authors whose Dave Barry written motto is We play music as well as Metallica writes novels.

Friday's Child, I hope Lost will end a chapter before the last chapter of Saving Fish. Which doesn't mean any of you shouldn't read Saving Fish, it's just a comment on the difference between books and TV.

ib4uc said...

Happy Lost Day!!!! Been pretty busy so I've been mostly in lurk mode these past couple of weeks. Love the discussions that have been going on.

And yeah, I think N&P have been all talked out but my opinion is that they were a couple that were so absorbed in themselves and the diamonds that they didn't see or care about anything going on around them.

Joy Luck Club? Love the movie -- I try to watch it any time it's on TV. I'm gonna have to go get the book.

InEnglandAndLost said...

Hi LoCos,

Happy American Lost day... I don't get to see tonights episode until next tuesday. So I'm gutted!! Hope it's a good one.

I'm glad Paulo was buried, but not Nikki! She was HOTT!

I was thinking about TMFT last night and kept wondering why Ben hasn't said his actual age. He has said on more than one occasion that he has been on the island his entire life, but we don't know how long that is... could it be that he's been there for more than 80 years? as part of the Hanso foundations LEP?

Also - did Tom kill Boone? Pushing the Beachcraft from the cliff?

Probably covered all of this!

IEAL

Tall Guy said...

Expose was, I think, in part a nod towards the classic Alfred Hitchcock Presents episode, where Joseph Cotton finds himself paralysed and on an autopsy room table. It's realise that he's still alive when one of the pathologists spots tears dripping from Cotton's eyes. Stephen King (him again) did a variation (rip-off) of this story in the recent collection Nightmares And Dreamscapes, in which, it is realised that a snake-bitten, paralysed man is still alive, when he gets an erection.

thinbluemime said...

I Needed a Laugh, hope you do to :)

http://www.lostdude.com/lostpics/LOST.S03.E13.HR.HD-0217C_2.jpg

Dennis said...

InEnglandAndLost said... Also - did Tom kill Boone? Pushing the Beachcraft from the cliff?

No. Tom didn't move the plane until after Boone had died.


Here is the timeline for the Beachcraft and the Pearl:

Day 23 - Paulo and Nikki find the Beechcraft plane still up on the cliff, and the Pearl Station
Day 41 - Locke and Boone find the Beechcraft. Boone causes the plane to fall from the cliff, and later dies.
Day 46 - Tom visits the Pearl (based on Juliet's comments on day 48)
Day 48 - Paulo visits the Pearl to hide the diamonds. Ben and Juliet visit the Pearl to watch Jack. When the enter the Pearl, through the hatch, they say:

Ben: Who left this open?
Juliet: Tom was down here a couple of days ago.
Ben: Have him cover it up with the plane


Day 49 - Tom moves the plane to cover the Pearl hatch door
Day 50 - Eko and Charlie find the Beechcraft, with Yemi inside. Eko set the plane on fire.
Day 65 - Locke and Eko move the Beechcraft, and discover the Pearl station.
Day 71 - Locke, Sayid, Nikki, and Paulo return the the Pearl. Paulo retrieves the diamonds

InEnglandAndLost said...

Wow - thanks Dennis! I should really check these Timelines out. Maybe even staple them to my forehead!

maven said...

Good "Lost" morning all! Thanks, Memphish, for the head's up on Doc Jensen. (I broke down and read it...not as spoilery as I thought, but I had seen some previews that foreshadowed the article already.)

Melissa_Lossa said...

Hey, everybody - if anyone is interested, there's a clip from tonight's episode on tvguide.com. It really doesn't show much of anything, but any Lost is good Lost, right? ;)

bigdog said...

did klugh order michael to kill ana lucia when he returned to the swan to get ben? or was it all mike.

scoutpost said...

afternoon LoCo's! (Actually it's still morning here) Happy Lost Day!

bigdog- It was all Mike- Klugh gave him the task of bringing the people on the list back and free Ben, but didn't tell him how to do it. Michael did what he felt he had to do to get it done, probably used the opportunity and felt he had no choice but to kill A.L.

bigdog said...

thanks scout. was just thinking about how many of the losties killed people since they were on the island. seems like only a few people have NOT killed or been responsible for killing people.

bigdog said...

If my count is correct the only ones who have not killed are rose, bernard and jin.

so far all three would be considered "good" why arent they on any list?

Thrasher76 said...

Happy Lost Day Everyone!!

maven said...

Hey, Thrasher! I saw the Transformers movie trailer and I thought of you!

memphish said...

Hi Thrasher! Hope things are well. Not much going on over here yet today. Hopefully things will pick up. Enjoy the epi.

wv=fourzms

Dennis said...

Bigdog, Here is the list of main characters, and who they killed since they've been on the island...

Jack - Edward Mars (The Marshall)
Kate - ?
Sawyer - Random Other
Sayid - ?
Hurley - ?
Locke - Mikhail
Jin - ?
Sun - Colleen
Charlie - Ethan
Claire - ?
Mr. Eko - Random Others
Michael - Ana Lucia, Libby
Walt - ?
Boone - ?
Shannon - ?
Ana-Lucia - Goodwin, Shannon, Random Other
Libby - ?
Rose - ?
Bernard - ?
Desmond - ?

Can anyone fill in some of the blanks?

As far as animals go...

Sawyer - Polar Bear, Tree Frog
Locke - Wild Boar
Jin - Fish

memphish said...

In getting ready for tonight I was reviewing the Blast Door Map which indicates that The Flame is between The Swan and The Medical Hatch. Further The Flame seems to be near the west coast of the Island assuming the Blast Door Map is oriented in the normal map fashion. But looking at Sayid's map from The Flame to The Barracks is this possible? Is the Blast Door Map incomplete, is The Flame improperly indicated on the Blast Door Map? Any guesses?

Melissa_Lossa said...

memphish - I believe the map says that this is the "alleged" location of the Flame. I got the impression that the artist was piecing together information about the layout of the island, without having actually been to any of the other hatches.

Also, near the note about the alleged station, it says "but unlikely due to cerberus activity."

Dennis said...

I just re-watched the scene in "Enter 77" where Sayid pulls the map out of his bag and shows it to Mikhail:

Mikhail: There will come a time when your guard is down, and when it is, I will not hesitate a moment before killing you.
Mikhail: You should know this before...
[Danielle interrupts]
Danielle: He's making an excellent point. You have a map. Why keep him alive?

I wonder what he was going to say... Before What?

This isn't the only time Danielle interrupted Mikhail before he was about to say something interesting. In the next episode, she interrupts him before he reveals that he knew Locke was paralyzed.

memphish said...

Thanks Melissa. I can't wait until 4/10 to get the new LOST magazine with the pull-out Blast Door Map.

scoutpost said...

Ahhh- the 10th, I knew the magazine was supposed to be out or out soon-I've been looking for it- I was starting to get worried that I had missed it and they were all bought out at B&N.

JGZ350 said...

memphish I can't wait til 4/10 either. That's my b-day and for a bonus the new Lost mag is coming out. How cool is that?

ExperimentalFilm said...

memphish said...
Thanks Melissa. I can't wait until 4/10 to get the new LOST magazine with the pull-out Blast Door Map.

hhahaha this statement reminded me of how dorky and obsessive we really are .

.. no but seriously, i can't wait for that mag either .

memphish said...

Happy Early Birthday jgz350!

JGZ350 said...

Why thank you memphish-

I think you and I are the same age if my memory serves me right.

memphish said...

You tell me you're age first and then I'll tell you if you're right. LOL. I believe you're a bit younger than I am.

JGZ350 said...

I don't think so memphish. I remember you saying you were in your early 40's like 42 I think. I'm 42 and will be 43 on 4/10.

memphish said...

You remember correctly. At 41 though my memory and typing seems to be going. Today though I blame the pollen. And blogger which failed to give me a wv.

JGZ350 said...

I didn't get a wv from blogger either. Imagine that.

memphish said...

I hope to see most everyone around later tonight. I'll probably be back pre-showtime killing time. See you then.

capcom said...

Hey All! Have a good Passover and Holy Week for those who are so inclined. :-)

Happy Bday soon JGZ!

I just got the new Lost magazine today at Borders, check one near you to see if they have it! B-and-N still only had the special $10.00 one from last month. The blast door map is nice. Very glowy! The script is very easy to read, but the latin is not translated which is really no biggie since we know it already. It also includes the lower-most right corner that is usually not shown in screen caps. Re-reading it knowing what we know now, some of the text could very easily be referencing The Purge, or Hostile trouble. The mag is also now offering a big Swan station blueprint with a new subscription, it looks nice.

Also in the mag, not any eye candy for the gentlemen this time, but a nice close-up of Dez carrying what looks like a Claire stand-in out of the water (well, one might consider a wet Claire to be eye candy though). Nice muss-kles Dez. :o)

Inengland, I like the idea of Tom pushing the plane over with Boone in it. Wish it were so, it would have made his death even more poignant and creepy.

Tx for the Doc-J article, and the warning, I guess I'll wait until tonight to read it.

memphish said...

Thanx for the mag update capcom. I'll run out tomorrow, that is if I get off the blog.

maven said...

Hey, jgz! We're both Aries! I'm this Friday, the 6th! I'm a little older than you guys, though!

memphish said...

Happy Early Birthday Maven! You're birthday is a school holiday here in Memphis. Okay, it's really Good Friday, but I say celebrate Maven's birthday too.

maven said...

Thanks, Memphish. I didn't realize that my birthday was Good Friday this year. We celebrate Passover...as in I hope this birthday passes me over! LOL

memphish said...

I hear you Maven. I've decided after 21 you don't really need to keep up with the numbers until you hit retirement age, whatever that might turn out to be when you get there. Hubby did throw me a very nice 40th party last year though, and son and I took him to NYC for his 45th in Dec. The in-between numbers are not as fun tho. This year we celebrated our 17th anniversary by taking my mother out to eat. She was appalled; we were unconcerned. But we went to NOLA two weeks later to really celebrate.

capcom said...

Happy B-day Everyone! :o)

scoutpost said...

Happy Early Birthday Maven and JGZ!
memphish- I agree with not keeping count after 21. Half the time I can't remember how old I am...what does that say about me?! eh well.

experimental- yeah we are a bunch of dorks aren't we? dorky...but happy. So Borders already has the mag huh?

takes a village said...

I was hoping for a no holds barred cage match tonight.
Congratulations Lady Vols.

Thrasher76 said...

Thanks Maven!! I am finally out of the retail rat race. I am starting my new job on Monday with Citizens Bank as an area manager!! I am so glad to not work craaaaazy hours anymore!!

I hope tonights epi does not suck like last weeks did. Althoug we did get some razzle dazzle action and I hope they are not going to come back from the dead!

Are we getting a new post for tonights epi? I could, for old times sake make one, I think I am still an admin helper here....

capcom said...

Yes Village, I hope that we can understand what they are screaming about tonight, better than we can in the promo. And I hope that it's more cerebral than "He likes me!", "No, he likes me!" Even though Jules obviously grew a (cynical) spine on the island, I still think that she retained her sweet side as well. I've come to the conclusion that she is more suitable for Jack anyway, they are both smart, and eye-to-eye equals. I think that Kate sees Jack as a father figure who can lift her up out of herself. That's not usually real love.

Yep, big partying here in Knox today for the Ladys!

Wow! Congrats to you Thrasher! Hmmm, so you're a 3-piece-suiter now? :o) Enjoy!

maven said...

Thrasher...congrats on the new job. Sounds very "respectable"! LOL Whatever happened to Belly?

Can't wait until the cat fight tonite!

capcom said...

test

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