What a cool episode! The reviews will always be mixed, but this viewer was fully satisfied by this week's experience. This post is intended to alleviate the lag in comments. Make sure to check the comments from the last post to catch up on all the chatting that you might have missed!
Thursday, February 08, 2007
NOT IN PORTLAND - SEASON 3, EPISODE 7 (POST 2)
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Here is the updated reading list for the 
416 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 416 Newer› Newest»they said the hanso foundation and all the other stuff associated with the experience had nothing to do with ABC, etc because it was supposed to be like that!! THAT is what made it fun. Ummm........hello? remember the 1st commercial??? i'm sure we all probably soiled ourselves when we saw it!
so anyway..........i'm gonna' wait and see how far this new site goes. if it seems to just linger around and nothing "spawns" from it, i'll go with fake. until then, i'm standing in the doorway..........waiting.
Oh yes one more observation. As for the Game vs Show thing. Well in the game the show is just a show. So there is no requirement for the Mittlewerk character to actually be called Mittlewerk in the series. It could be that the show may just not reveal that he is using an alias, or that they just would change the name for fear of attracting the "real life" Mittlewerks wrath (he is running around with a killer virus after all).
What I'm saying is basically they don't have to confirm things one way or another with that.
fenris: THANK YOU!!! finally, someone who sees things through the same window as i do!!!
interesting that they used "JONAS" for "Mittelos'" first name. here's a bit on Jonas Salk. Enjoy!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonas_Salk
not saying anything there. just that it's interesting. that's all.
ib4uc said...
One question... other than chemo, what else would cause a person to lose their hair?
Some other ailments that cause hairloss are alopecia, some thyroid diseases, polycystic ovary syndrome (hmmm), kidney disease, and lupus...just saying.
Also: *waving* at you.
okay, went to mittelos and in the bios, if you click on richard alpert's, his picture didn't come up. it actually said, "albert hoffman" as the picture that's supposed to be there.
Weird.
albert hoffman = anagram for "fan from the lab".
i got nuthin.
just weird that that name would be in the picture block. hmmm........
Hey ange. Good to see ya back. I guess I was just throwing out there that maybe something could have caused her sisters "illness". Chemo/cancer seems the most likely, but you never know with this show.
*waving right back at ya*
Good morning LoCos!
isibell said...
I agree that I don't think Juliet has any powers. I think it was a set up. She chose the method of her ex's demise, and it was made so by those who could arrange it.
There is no way Ben promised her he'd let her go home. No way in hell! If he was willing to let her go, why not call in a second boat to rescue the Losties and solve both problems. No one is getting off that Island, and Juliet knows it just as well as Jack. What ever Ben has over Juliet he used it when he was speaking with her in the O.R. It's the only reason she'd be willing to kill one of her own people to help Kate and Sawyer.
I totally agree with you on these two points!!
dedjezter: I still really hope they don't do a Jack/Juliet thing. Being so much alike doesn't necessarily make for a good pairing. I just don't feel anything between them ... no sparks at all. But, thanks for the transcript of the Mittlos video. Too bad it's not a new TLE, I think we need one.
fenris: interesting idea that Juliet's "treatments" are what's making her sister sick. She sure seems to dread that needle, maybe because she knows she'll be sicker than a dog for a while afterward. I also noticed an oxygen tank next to her bed.
chucklez3, I noticed that albert hoffman thing from the first. Albert Hoffman invented LSD.
Wasn't sure if everyone saw my post late last night in regards to the Mittelos website. There is no disputing is a fake. Gregg Nations is a creative driector of the show and would have no reason to lie.
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=68520
Yes, it is fake. Everyone can talk about it all they want, but it's not an official website. A fan obviously went to a lot of trouble with it. Most if not all of the information is flat out wrong.
Actually, what I want to see is the parody that the island is really a roll of Mentos, or entirely made up of Mentos, and all those actors from those painfully bad commercials are really the Others.
While I undertsand where you are coming from Chuckelz with the whole ABC denial of Hanso, etc, for the game, Carlton and Damon tipped us off to the hanso commerical weeks before TLE started in their podcast. Also, as stated previously, there was clear deliniation between "in Game Sites" and non in game sites. Any site created for the purpose of the show was wither owned and registered with ABC, or one of the games listed sponsors.(Sprite, verizon, etc) The whole act about not knowing didn't come into play until Rachel was introduced and confronted the panel at ComicCon. It is an absolute, undeniable FAKE.
I'm back. I spent time with the family. Got the laundry done. Got supper ready for tonight, so here I am. By the time I finish typing this I'll probably have to enter 4-5 wvs.
Maven, Capcom, Ange and Fenris were all chiming in about making sick Rachel pregnant. I'm with Fenris. I think it may be Juliet's treatment that is creating the hair loss. Another possibility is that Rachel had uterine cancer and now has no womb and that the treatment that could make a male mouse pregnant would allow a womb-less woman (as opposed to a 70-year-old-womb) to become pregnant. Christine suggested dialysis. That would be a repeat from Anthony Cooper and we know how much TPTB like to repeat things, so maybe.
I'm still thinking about Juliet and her personality. Will the real Juliet please stand up? I like everything Capcom, Ange and Isibell said and I can't decide where I come out at this point.
I agree with Isibell that there is no way Ben promised Juliet she could leave. I'm guessing that they can't leave and that she told Jack that to keep him in line. Right now that hope is pretty much all he's got.
Dedjezter word etymologist extrodinaire teased me about my age. It is advanced, and maybe I've Lost Time? Ever think of that? LOL
All this talk about Mittlewerk. Juliet mentioned in the episode that she was doing personal research in a personal lab. It is certainily possible that TWM was up to the same thing.
Finally, for now, Fenris said:As for Julliets personality change. Perhaps the whole aggressive side of the Others is due to the fact that they have all been brainwashed when they came to the island (with maybe the excetion of Ben?) I think this might also explain how Juliet can so calmly shoot Pickett and how she would have been able to shoot Kate. I think there's no way that woman in Miami could have done something like that, so the question is, how can she do it now?
Off to enter numerous WVs.
This was on Kristen's blog on eonline yesterday. It's definetly cancer, but even the character who plays Rachel doesn't know what kind.
http://www.eonline.com/gossip/kristin/blog/index.jsp?uuid=fb573859-945f-4284-8b91-02210c184f22&page=1
What Lies Ahead...
The story of Juliet and her sister is not over! I tackle-jumped Robin Weigert (Juliet's sister, Rachel) at a recent event for scoop, and she told me the writers were in the midst of creating another episode that continues Rachel's story. "I don’t know what kind of cancer I have," she said. "It has not been revealed to me, [but] I am not playing it being in any vicinity to the baby...I suppose I will discover [when I go back]."
Fenris i beleive juliettes sister had overian cancer and prolly had them removed thats why they mentioned that juliette impregnated a male mouse. I beleive hurley is gonna be very important the way they kept mentioning him in the survival guide. HUrley and desmond were both oceanic employees in that dream sequence a while back. Hurley may have been hypontized and programmed for dharmas ends. I now think that the ruse with kelvin was aslways meant to have desmond turn the key, and it seems it did something to him. I looked at the still frames and the eyepatch guy is definetly kelvin. The clockwork orange stuff with karl was definetly a tie in to this summers madness. If the island is meant to be a fresh start if the world ends they are gonna need fresher than seventy year old uteruses. I like how they kept going back and forth til we are to think julliette is the sympathetic one and not ben. Julliette definetly wanted kate and sawyer for her pet fertility project. I beleive that they may have plans for juliette and jack to mate. The fact that ethan was out in the real world also proves that ben can really get them off the island. I wonder if ethans partner was Jacob. They also showed a scene that proves what i always said about the stewrdess being dharma, whit her telling jack that she there to watch...
i think they sort of coerced juliette to go like we just killed your ex and we know about your sister and her baby so you better come help us. It was more diabolical cause they were always nice seeming
juliette also answered the question about their camera being all over the island and not just on the cages, when she turned the dial and instantly found alex kate and sawyer. The way the pearl was wired one way make me think bens has acess to the other islands cameras too
diggity... thanks for the confirmation that it is cancer.
2costa said:Julliette definetly wanted kate and sawyer for her pet fertility project. That is so gross, but plausible. I'd guess they know about baby Clementine and thus Sawyer's ability to reproduce, but why Kate? Because of the negative pregnancy test in the past? Of course, Kate was the only female who'd go off on an A-Team Mission is the real answer.
2costa also said:i think they sort of coerced juliette to go like we just killed your ex and we know about your sister and her baby so you better come help us. Agree. When they mentioned her sister and her sister's pregnancy Juliet realized she had to cooperate to protect her.
the dude that played hurleys shrink is gonna be important. The wouldnt have acclaimed acter bruce davidson in a five minute cameo. Like i said earlier the comfirmation that there are dharma recruiters opens up the libby desmond hurley connection again. the fertility injections might be tied to the injections that the dharma people give and take. I though kates test was positive
fenris why no Mirc no more??
Lost is on the cover of the new Entertainment Weekly. You can see the cover at Lost-Media by clicking here There's another great picture of Jack, Juliet and Ben here.
fenris why no Mirc no more??
A quick glance at what the new EW is going to cover looks pretty spoilery. Must stay away!
if kate is infertile, she would be a great lab rat.
I love how all the technology on the island is antiquated (Andre, you made me think of it when you mentioned the cameras...HI by the way), but room 23 was all teched up.
Okay so she does have cancer...which then REALLY brings up the ethics question, and also, who is to raise the baby if she does not get well. Ben has/had a tumor, maybe he was a subject of some of this research too?
fenris said:
Perhaps the whole aggressive side of the Others is due to the fact that they have all been brainwashed when they came to the island,
I dunno about brainwashing, but there was definitely and offer they couldn't refuse you could say. I think I would be mildly irritated if I were forced to leave the world, and my family to go live on an island in the middle of who-knows-where with people like Ben...bleh.
memphish said...
A quick glance at what the new EW is going to cover looks pretty spoilery. Must stay away!
AGREED!
and again....i believe jack may have read ben's lips (yes, there's always a mirror below someone who's being operated on while lying on their stomach. that's how you communicate with them if necessary, plus keep watch if they wake up.
they made sure to show that jack was paying attention to ben's mouth.
and he didn't look like he quite "bought" what juliet SAID ben told her.
Chucklez3 is lip reading Jack's Heroes-like superpower?
if lip-reading is a super-power, then "they're among us".
that's like saying reading sign-language is a super-power.
with that said, "no". because heroes is NBC.
odd that apollo would advertise since they were not available to the public
I found this funny little Lost character summary over at EW. It's not spoilery Ange. It reminds me of the post earlier this year by Maven's friend Ken Levine.
But it's upside down in a mirror lip reading, not just everyday lip reading.
since we know bens reach is beyond the island he could have said her sister and baby could get the proverbial bus treatment
hahaha. lips move the same. if someone's in front of you upside-down, can you not tell that their lips form the same with each word? and a mouth in a reflection doesn't change. so the mirror part is irrelevent. upside down, just means you have to pay attention. no big.
since all lip motions are symetrical upside down wouldnt have been too hard.
i'm sure ben knows nothing of the "bus treatment". and he's shown no "proof" of "contact" with the outside world.
but i won't discount the possibility of truth there.
2costa: thank you.
2costa said...
odd that apollo would advertise since they were not available to the public
Interesting point. I guess it was the onyl thing in the hatch that wasn't branded with the Dharma symbol. Everything else was clearly rebranded Dharma food, but no the Apollo bar. I guess they want us to assume it was availabel to the general public and made it to the island. I guess this would be another tie in of the island and the real world.
So if LOST is winning the rating war with 18-49 year olds, who the heck is watching CSI:New York? And DedjezterI do still fall in that range.
Codysmom said...I still really hope they don't do a Jack/Juliet thing ... I just don't feel anything between them ...
Now that Juliet is "trapped", like Jack, he will feel like he can rescue her.
2costa said... The fact that ethan was out in the real world also proves that ben can really get them off the island.
No, it only proves that you can get to the island. Ethan was in the real world the same time as Juliet. There's no reason to believe he was on the island prevoiulsy.
Would you people stop making it easier for Jack and Juliet to hook up. You're turning my stomach. Runs off to re-watch Jate kiss from What Kate Did.
CSI: New York is CBS. the old folk station. I'm guessing 40-99
since dhrama can leave the island it begs the question of why bring jack there to operate on ben so it may be that ben can't leave for health reasons or quarantine reasons. In the scene from 3x1 where the plane is crashing it seems that ben knows there will be surviors in the fuselage and he tells goodwin there might be some in the tail. Which might explain why all the tailies have been killed exept bernard, cause he wasnt supposed to be in the tail.
dennis: i'm with you. nothing shows that people can LEAVE. only "arrive".
they check in, but they don't check out.
Careful with the 40s chucklez3.
the tape of the redsox wasnt proof of contact with the outside world or all the intel on the survivors??? Ethan was dharma not a fellow recruit. The fusalage was the desirable surviors and he sent ethan right there, sort of shows hes high ranking
whoops. was supposed to be 50. hahahaha. my bad.
Moving away from my shipper obsession and on to real things:Yesterday we were discussing the time issue and someone suggested that they were stuck in 50-60 time loop and that Adam and Eve were Kate and a boy to be named later (shipper slips in even here) and that Ben is Aaron. Question:Does that mean that they do the exact same things during each of these time spans or can they change things leading to different outcomes. For example, if Pickett kills Sawyer he won't be around to be buried in the cave. If lightning fails to strike Claire, we have to listen to her wail about "her baby" another 8 episodes. Anyway, you get my point. Any ideas time theorists?
just shows he's was "chosen". However, the tape proves nothing. that coulda' been brought in with someone else. not that someone "WENT OUT" and recorded it.
remember the DHARMA "drop"? the food, etc??
i'm sure this coulda happened near the others' camp as well. i'm sure that supplies have to be replenished somehow. doesn't mean anyone left or that ben has "contact".
why do you think ben wants to leave too?
2costa, I'd agree that Ethan was high ranking and Goodwin as well. They had earned Ben's trust that's why he sent them and I'd guess they must have a specialized expertise in separating the good from the bad quickly. Unfortunately for us I think Ethan failed Ben's trust in him and we never got to see Ethan's evaluation of good/bad because he became obsessed with Claire.
So is Jacob an additional infiltrator of the fusies? I vote it's the old guy you see in the background all the time.
"god loves you like he loved jabocob" from the clockwork film and zeke saying " sheppard wasnt even on jacobs list...hmmm
i think ethan was obsessed with claire for fertility purposes. If jacob had a list than ethan list was just to crossreference survivors
and what's with the new "couple" they introduced???
i think gary troup is a dharma pawn and still alive or at least maniplulated by dharma by proxy by the stewdess who is in fact dharma and was a character in badtwin
paoulo and blondie???
gotta go.
later everyone.
just because tle was a stand alone thing doesnt mean they are mutually exclusive. The didnt ley javi had full creative liscence they gave him parameters of the story. i fully expect a lot of the summer stuff to be involved, the only question is are the gonna use the same actor for say alvar or whoever
2costa, Damon has said it was Gary Troup that got sucked into the engine in the Pilot even though the actor was clearly different from the one cast in TLE. It's hard to tell with Damon though when he's joking.
2costa,
I'm with you on the connection with the outside world. I believe we have enough info at this point to believe it is reasonable they can leave the island.
I think the question that presents itself is "are they allowed to leave." It would be such a huge security risk to allow people/scientists/test subjects/or families to see the things and lifestyle on the island, and leave thinking they would never tell anyone about it.
2costa said...
i think ethan was obsessed with claire for fertility purposes. If jacob had a list than ethan list was just to crossreference survivors
I think the others have issues conceiving on the island due to this advanced aging issue or something being wrong with them. Juliett was brought to the island under the pretense she would be working on an issue to resolve why a 26 yr old's womb looked 70.
I think that is why they are so facinated with the kids and pre-born children. Ethan wanted Claires baby so they could raise Aaron as they did Alex.
Just to chime in on the five-page EW article about Lost: Yes, it does have several spoilers in it. Including at least two very interesting spoilers I hadn't read anywhere else. DarkUFO has the article's spoilers summarized on the spoiler part of his website as well.
I wonder if some enterprising soul out on the intertubes has been able to lip read Ben in the scenes we get to see - might be some good info in there.
Also - it never occurred to me that maybe the CT scan that Juliet saw was someone from the Island / Dharma. I guess the obvious answer is that whatever the electromagnetic field did to "heal" (i.e. Locke, Rose), it came at a price (infertility, perhaps cancerous tumors, etc.).
And the Apollo bus link from above is busted - but that is freaking awesome if it's true that it has an Apollo ad on it.
Morning all! Since I'm on PST, it's tough coming here after everyone has been on-line for 3 to 4 hours discussing and dissecting every detail! I feel like everything has been said...and very well, I might add.
Diggitydirge: I agree that people aren't "allowed" to leave the island. Everything going on there is so top secret, they can't let anything leak out.
Now it seems that Mittelos might be running things. Ethan (and probably Goodwin) were their representatives on the island...most likely their eyes and ears. That company (which is taking over Dharma's objectives) probably has continued to supply the island. It is amazing though how well the 1970's type electronic gear still works so well!
Can't wait for the EW article. I should get it in today's mail!
ian:
From DarkUFO
I stole this from bestsariah on the PopCandy blog. Look at this idea:. I think Tom and Ben are a couple, and Juliet tried to impregnate Ben as she did the mouse. Instead of a baby, they got a tumour.
Also stolen from folks on PopCandy, we talked about Jacob and Esau, but I haven't seen anyone mention that Juliet's sister's name Rachel is also biblical. Rachel was the favored wife of Jacob who bore Joseph and Benjamin.
Then I heard someone on Big O's Cranky Fanatic podcast say that Carl in The Room looked like Chuckie from Rugrats on an acid trip. Kind of reminded me of the rock opera Tommy as well.
Isn't the production photo of the bus with the Apollo bar ad on Dennis' flickr page?
I saw this T-shirt and thought of poor Jack. Maybe we should all pitch in and get him one. I wonder what the shipping charge to "Not Portland" is? :)
All Jack needs is duct tape and he can make his own. On that note, why can't the Others give him some clean clothes? He's back in his at least week-old hiking across the island clothes again next week.
This is a different shot of the Apollo bus
Bus picture works for me. It was awesome that they put that ad on the bus. At first I thought they were tying TLE into the show and then, of course, I remembered that Kate devoured some Apollo bars in the hatch! Isn't it one of the few items that doesn't have a Dharma symbol?
is the 5 page ew article online anywhere? The issue won't get here for a few days.
Maven-
I'm west coast also (MST), so let me have it. I'll bat some stuff back and forth with ya even if it has been discussed. My brain doesn't really start working until 10:00 am anyway.
dennis said: Now that Juliet is "trapped", like Jack, he will feel like he can rescue her.
That's a good point, but I still don't like it:)
LOL, chucklez3: they check in, but they don't check out.
I think we can all agree the others are very interested in children, fertility, etc. But to what purpose? I guess that's the big question. And I'm thinking it's bigger than the speculation that being on the island has made the others unable to have their own children.
That being said, memphish said...
I stole this from bestsariah on the PopCandy blog. Look at this idea:. I think Tom and Ben are a couple, and Juliet tried to impregnate Ben as she did the mouse. Instead of a baby, they got a tumour.
LOL!! Love it! "The best laid schemes of mice and men Go often askew." Why can I more readily accept Ben and Tom as a couple than Jack and Juliet?
Codysmom said:Why can I more readily accept Ben and Tom as a couple than Jack and Juliet? I'm right there with you.
Dave on DarkUFOs forum posted this information about wombs. During pregnancy, the endometrium is the key organ in the creation of placenta, which supplies food and oxygen to the fetus. Now, the endometrium can be altered in a number of ways. Possible examples in changing the endometrium in small ways are stress, the changing of the seasons, age, climate, etc. Heres the kicker: one example that drastically changes the endometrium is constant contact with a strong radioacive or electromagnetic source.
In "Lost" terms: These women who have been on the island are in constant contact with a strong electromagnetic source, that of which is altering their endometrium, their crucial organ that allows pregnancy and fetal growth to occur. Since Juliet is a fertility doctor, this would make perfect sense. The others are unable to have children due to their altered endometrium and resort to taking the children.
Seems to be a pretty good theory.
Hey there is someone other than LoCo TLECers who think Mittelos and Mittlewerk are too similar to be a coincidence. Check it out here.
Hey everyone!
maven said...Since I'm on PST, it's tough coming here after everyone has been on-line for 3 to 4 hours discussing and dissecting every detail!
Ditto that. And I've had an usually crazy morning and am just now getting on, so I'm way behind! Look forward to reading all the discussion- you guys are so smart!
Hi LoCos, fascinating observations as usual.
IMHO:
1)Lip reading is more difficult upside down generally, because our brain expects the norm on it's own without specific effort or training. That's why those upside-down puppet faces (where you draw eyes on your chin and put a cloth over your nose and eyes) are so hilarious, because it plays with your brain's automatic visual translation of what it sees, and that makes it look totally goofy.
2)I definately believe that the DI could have a small sub that goes between islands. They said in the last ep that it's only two miles. That could also be what the cable is for...an umbilical for the sub connection to one island or the other perhaps.
3)Michele R. cleans up pretty well, she looks very girly in that EW pic. Whoodathunk.
4)Didn't the original Apollo bars that Kate found in the Swan pantry (that looked more like a Baby Ruth than the Hershey-type bar that we got) have a Dharma logo on the wrapper?
5)Good point from the poster who said that now Jack can rescue Juliet. Right on character. If he ever finds out if/how they possibly strong-armed her into service, he will become SuperJaaaaaaaaack!!!!! Hero of damsels in distress everywhere!
6)Ethan WAS very important to the DI.....he seemed to be the only one who was a plumber in Otherville! :o)
7)I'm in the camp that believes that the show and TLE can indeed have crossover subjects/elements. Case in point, what Memphish said about Gary Troup being in both; his book was in the show, real life, and TLE. So are the Apollo bars and the DI story in both. So parthenegesis and other weird sciences can be also.
8)Concerning #7, at some point in the near future when more and more Qs are answered, I hope that we or TPTB can start keeping official tabs on what is canon to the story/myth/show and what is not.
9)As for Smokey being someone's subconscience.....I call "Monsters From The Id" (again)!!!!! I'm going with that until TPTB show otherwise.
Anyway, that's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it! (until y'all prove me wrong!) :o)
Dennis said:
DeDJeZTeR said... No Parthenogenisis... Different reality again... lol
It looks like this was added to the ARG because it was going to be in the show, not the other way around.
How else would you explain a male mouse getting pregnant?
By artificial Incemination of course, Parthenogenisis needs no interfearence to happen. If Juliet Impregnated the mouse than that is how it got pregnant, not through the process of Parthenogenis.
Memphish said:
Also stolen from folks on PopCandy, we talked about Jacob and Esau, but I haven't seen anyone mention that Juliet's sister's name Rachel is also biblical. Rachel was the favored wife of Jacob who bore Joseph and Benjamin.
Once again I point out my post from The Lost Community Podcast #9 thread a while back dated 19-1-2007 SO one has been talking about it.... we have... lol
WV = GWKLLLZ
Ded, I was pretty sure we'd discussed Rachel in general before, but not since Not In Portland aired. That was my only point.
WV is making me enter over and over. Gnashes teeth and tries again.
Just for clarification this was the post:
DeDJeZTeR said...
This is in response to the "Doc" article, but also fdates back to the 6 part beggining and if need be I will remove it. I certainly do not want to anger anyone here. Plus if any of this has been said already let me know.
Not sure what Scoutpost was reffering to, but I like the idea of #3 in Doc's list.
Here goes nuttin.
Jacob, together with Easu, was born to Isaac and Rebekah after 20 years of marriage.
Esau was a ruddy hunter, while Jacob was a gentle man who "dwelled in tents,"
Sounds a bit Lostish don’t you think.
During Rebekah's pregnancy, "the children struggled together within her" (Genisis 25:22). According t Rashi, whenever Rebeccah passed a house of study, Jacob would struggle to get out; whenever she passed a temple of idolatry, Esau would struggle to get out.
Man of Science, Man of Faith… hmmmm???
Rebekah was to give birth to two children, who would become the respective founders of two very different nations. They would always be in competition, and eventually, the elder would serve the younger.
Different factions of Others maybe. Perhaps Jacob is Eye patch man and the older brother of Ben.????
Esau was the firstborn. His brother Jacob was born immediately afterwards, and was grasping Esau's heel. Jacob was trying to hold Esau back from being the firstborn, and in that way claim the Abrahamic legacy for his own self.
Maybe Jacob was the intended leader of the others, but Ben stepped up to take leadership, which is what broke them into divided parts of a whole.
Jacob awoke in the morning and continued on his way to Haran. He stopped by the well where the shepherds were gathering their flocks to water them and met Laban's younger daughter, his cousin Rachel. He loved her immediately, and after spending a month with his relatives, asked for her hand in marriage in return for working seven years for Laban.
Could TPTB be tossing us a little hint to the old days of TLE
OR
Maybe they are hinting that there is a relative (family) relation between Rachel and Jacob/Ben.
As Jacob and his entourage neared the border of Canaan, Rachel went into labor and died as she gave birth to her second—and Jacob's twelfth—son, Benjamin.
Or could Ben actually be the son of the aforementioned Jacob. Might we have a chance to meet the father of the Others… hmmmm again???
Just some thoughts.
Maven said: "It is amazing though how well the 1970's type electronic gear still works so well!"........maybe those were before the days of rampant "planned obsolescense" as a manufacturing norm? :o) "They don't make things like they used to!" as the saying goes.
Wow! The effects on the endometrium by electromagnetic forces, now that's some interesting news!! There ya go, that could be our answer, till we are told otherwise. But, so what does one use for a false endometrium in a pregnated male rat? Perhaps that's why it did't go full term, and that's the hard part of the experiment. Maybe you can grow a placenta on another organ, theoritically? Fascinating.
Here is the EW cover story on Lost:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20011203,00.html
^That article answers a question being debated right now right here... A big spoiler so beware.
Very interesting article. I like the candidness of CC and DL especially with respect to Eko's and I quote "lame" death. Stay away Ange and anyone else if you are trying to stay pure of spoilers. They are relatively general, but they are there.
Right, I should have restated from my earlier post that the article contains some fairly major spoilers. I just posted the link in response to Diggity's inquiry about it.
DeDJeZTeR said...
^That article answers a question being debated right now right here... A big spoiler so beware.
lol....like we didn't know the answer already? CC gave one of the spoilers away in October. Great article!
*covering my eyes* Thanks for the warnings;)
DeDJeZTeR said... By artificial Incemination of course, Parthenogenisis needs no interfearence to happen. If Juliet Impregnated the mouse than that is how it got pregnant, not through the process of Parthenogenis.
AI is fertilizing an egg. You are thinking of Embryo Transfer - taking a fertilized egg and implanting it. (I work a little in this field, kinda.)
There is an interesting article about a mouse that has two mommies and no daddy - Kaguya. According to the article, the process is so new, it doesn't have a name yet.
From the EW article:
Locke's sweat lodge was too...sweaty!
LOL
Wow, did I pick the wrong week to go on a business trip!!!! I finally get back to the computer and had to spend much longer than a lunch hour to catch up. Amazing. Is there anything you haven't figured out?
Maven...thanks for pointing out Calamity Jane. What an actress, I did not recognize her.
Thoughts on Juliet's more assertive island personality...she has power now. Back when she was in Miami, she was completely under the thumb of her weasely ex-husband (who gasped when the bus hit him? much like rose's husband being white, i didn't see that coming!) Anyhow, the Others needed her skills and thus she is in a position of authority. She's grown into a more assertive person because of this. Which begs the question, what happens to her personality if Ben yanks this power? Though there are limits to her power/authority...Ben supposedly makes the call as to when she can leave the island (if we believe she accurately relayed her conversation with Ben). It also explains why she wanted him dead, but couldn't actually do it herself. Her power only goes so far.
Another thought, if Juliet has only been on the island 3ish years, then she really doesn't know that Alex is Rousseau's daughter. Ben snatched her when she was a baby and told Juliet she was his. Which leads to another question...who does Juliet think Alex's mother is? Juliet is clearly there to solve a fertility problem, so what must she make of Ben being able to father a child?
And woohoo....Fenris! Ange! EF! Love seeing your names again.
Basically , I have not had the time to read all the comments here and post so after reading about half, I am posting. This is my compromise. I was reading a Lost Forum and someone says they saw Kate in Juliette's Flashback. It sounds like she is in the background of the bus scene. I can't wait to go home and watch that scene again.
Just wanted to be the 300th comment...
Thanks for the EW article! My favorite line was.."That sound you just heard? ABC execs chuckling nervously."
For something that was revealed I say, Bleaaaaah!.
Also funny was the phrase, "Operation Kill Cash Cow" concerning the plan for The End. :o)
The ending was funny as well..."For Cuse, it looks like this: ''We get to end the show on its own terms. Whether other people like what we've got planned is TBD, but we think our ending is cool, and that's always been our criterion.'' Adds Lindelof: ''Then we want a big parade, like when John Glenn comes back from space in The Right Stuff.'' You deliver on your promises, guys, and we'll take care of the confetti later."
I'll second that. :o)
Cattygirl, I just rewatched the scene twice. A woman with long brown hair in a ponytail rides by on a bicycle and there's a woman in a red/orange tank with shorter brown hair in a ponytail that walks past twice, but I'm pretty sure neither of them are Kate.
BTW, even though I know it's coming when the bus takes out Ed, it gets me everytime.
Did you all notice that at the bottom of the article is a link to the answers for the collection of questions that Doc J asked us to send in? Just making sure you saw it.
Fysb you're post raised a question for me. In Not in Portland Juliet is convinced that Jack won't just let a patient die. Does this mean that the Bob Dylan tribute was a test for Jack that Ben but not Tom was in on?
Any word Passafist and Goog on when we can expect the podcast?
CattyGirl said...
I was reading a Lost Forum and someone says they saw Kate in Juliette's Flashback. It sounds like she is in the background of the bus scene.
Catty Girl,
I call Shenanigans as Dennis would say. I have watched the scene several times frame by frame and I don't see Kate. Doesn't mean she isn't there because I didn't see the Apollo advert clearly either. Until someone produces a good screencap, I call Shenanigans!
People always think they see someone in every flashback now a days.
memphish - thanks for checking.
Capcom,
Following that link leads to the *big* spoilers. I think we talked about that particular site a day or so ago. TPTB give some really straightforward answers there, with -- in many cases -- specific episode or season numbers in which subjects will get addressed (or not get addressed).
diggitydirge - haha, so true.
Dennis calls Shenanigans? Does he like Dane Cook?
memphish said...
Fysb you're post raised a question for me. In Not in Portland Juliet is convinced that Jack won't just let a patient die. Does this mean that the Bob Dylan tribute was a test for Jack that Ben but not Tom was in on?
A little reverse psychology?
Ben: I want you to save me, Jack
Jake: Why would I do that, Ben?
Juliet: I want you to kill Ben.
Jack: No way - I'm saving him...
CattyGirl said...Dennis calls Shenanigans? Does he like Dane Cook?
South Park. See Cow Days
Does everyone over here read the episode recaps on Television Without Pity? If not you should. They always make me laugh. The recaplets are usually light on humor, but not this week's.
Oops, thanks Blue, so-solly. I didn't think that it was very spoilery, so I wasn't sure. I think I'm getting jaded for spoilers this season, I don't see them when they are there anymore!
Ahhhh, reverse psychology, I like it! Yeah, don't tell Jack what he can and can't do either.
Memphish,
I still can't figure out Juliet's true motives through all of this.
My speculation is:
1. She really wanted Ben to die, as indicated by the cue card sequence, and hoped that Jack had not be "broken" yet and would assist her.
2. When Jack pulled his stunt in the operating room, which was a selfless act to try to buy time for Sawyer and Kate, she realized her plan had failed and that Jack would not stoop to intentionally killing a person he was operating on.
3. In a last ditch attempt to gain leverage and force Jack to negotiate a "peaceful resolution" (one that would presumably be in her favor), she sends out the Others with orders to hunt down and/or kill Kate and Sawyer.
4. But Ben wakes up and regains control of the situation in his private conversation with her.
That's my guess, anyway.
Capcom,
I'm still kicking myself for reading the "Not in Portland" episode synopsis ahead of time. Ruined all of the "wow" moments for me :(
But yet I still try to read "lighter" spoilers.
Anyway, I'm glad I don't know too much more about 3.8 other than the flashback character and some of the guest starring characters.
i like dane cook.
of course, my name is DAN cook, so........eh.
hahaha.....yeah, no relation (as far as i know).
Memphish: Thanks to that info from DarkUFO re electromagnetism affecting fertility! That would feed into all the fertility issues and the Others obsession with babies and children. (Remember from TLE: one of the questions was how was the earth going to be repopulated after the Valenzetti Equation came to fruition?) If EM ages wombs, Dr. Juliette would be the one to go to because of her. research with impregnanting male mice and, most likely, helping Rachel get pregnant while being "sick".
As far as the Jack/Juliette relationship blooming: Definitely see it coming. Remember, Jack loves to save people, and now that he knows that she is just as stranded as he is, they will work together. She is taken aback that she is attracted to him. From what we've seen, her relationships leave something to be desired (Edmund was domineering as is Ben). I feel they both feel they need to save each other. Her motives seem to be all over the place and they are confusing. But now that we know Ben somehow has a hold over her ability to get off the island, and that she helped Kate/Sawyer escape, Jack will help her.
(Only took 3 WVs)
Yes Maven, mine and Capcom's only hope to stave off the Jack/Juliet stuff is Matthew Fox. Supposedly he's the one who helped delay the whole Jack/Kate thing by saying he didn't think people who had just crashed on an island would immediately start looking to hook up.
Similarly, I don't believe Jack would be looking to hook up with a woman who just said "if necessary kill them" referring to Kate and Sawyer. I mean Kate's always been a bit mysteriously dangerous, but Juliet removed all doubt with that and her subsequent execution of Pickett. From elementary school teacher to cold-blooded killing fertility doctor (via what's coming in the yucky flashback). It's an interesting relationship path.
Now, I could see Jack faking it with Juliet to convince Kate not to put herself in danger trying to rescue him. After all if he's "happy" shouldn't she be happy for him. I hope that's all it might turn into.
Thanks for the comments Memphis. Actually I just had another thought about that. Kates level summissiveness for a period and her lost time we speculated about in Episode One (Lost Time...hmmm), perhaps she was taken away and put on the brainwashing machine for a while between the beach and being taken to sawyer. Interesting she got her hard edge and outlaw instincts back when she set eyes on that facilitie. perhaps the recognition was the jolt she needed subconciously to reverse the effect of the treatment. Perhaps it could also explain Michael a bit too, maybe it was more then just a wish to protect his son that made him act in such a way. Less convinced on that one, but the Kate thing I think is definetly a possibility.
2costa - I forgot about IRC for a while. Lol. But also I've not been online long. just long enough to post a few comments. Also the Kate/Sawyer fertility project is interesting too.
Dennis & Others - I agree that Julliets words to Jack about being promised she can go home are a psychological ploy. It's just too effective as both a pacifier and a sympathy tool for my liking. I also agree that Parthenogenisis had too little to do with the ARG itself while having a lot apparently to do with the show, so it's definetly something to keep in mind and not dismiss.
Chuckles - "they made sure to show that jack was paying attention to ben's mouth. and he didn't look like he quite "bought" what juliet SAID ben told her." - It could be that the reason Jack asked was just to see if she would tell him the truth as a way to gauge if she is on the level or not with him now. That is assuming he did figure out what was said.
2costa - Actually you got it backwards. He was more certain of survivors from the tail section. He did the "there may actually be survivors" to Ethan about the Fuselage, where as Goodwin he just said "did you see where the tail section landed" and "if you run you can make that shore line in an hour".
On Jacob - Wasn't Jacob mentioned in the religious brainwashing material? "God loves you as He loved Jacob" A co-incidence? Maybe. But it could mean Jacob is some kind of religious leader or infact the monster/smoke or it's controller. Given the way he seemed to "Judge" Ekko and didn't attack him when he saw him as a priest.
diggitydirge - "I believe we have enough info at this point to believe it is reasonable they can leave the island." - Well, I think we can assume they *could* leave the island. I'm not so sure they still can. We haven't seen the outside world this season yet and we don't know Micheal and walt actually made it out. They could be sailing in circles for all we know.
--Oh I had a theory on the island being isolated a while back, so not relevant so much to this episode but anyway - The Valenzetti equation was about changing world conditions so maybe they just needed the island isolated for the sake of the calculation. The magnetic field thing was just part of that, keeping external environmental factors away. Also could explain the need for the apparent self contained eco system. However, what I will say there is I am not sure anything the Others are doing now has anything to do with the equation anymore. Although I think that depends on if Dr.Albert is Mittlewerk or not (in role if not in a name reveal), if he isn't then I can't see it being anyone else running a save the world type experiment. Which would go some way to explain why the others don't seem to know/care much about the Swan station.
Dave on Dark UFO Forum (via mephis) - Actually it makes sense that the Others can't have kids and that is why Julliet was brought in. Good call that person. It fits with things being crazy already on the island and also explains the way they used the fertility station briefly but abandoned it later, because no one was actually station ed there. The Mitlleos interests on the island were centred at the Hydra, but they knew of the other facilities and so they went there to deal with this problem when it occured rather then actually doing any continuing research.
so what's the pyscholigcal ploy or response Juliett is going to provoke from Jack by telling him she gets to go home after the surgery is over. Is she trying to repair their relationship since Jack outed her plot to kill Ben?
My thought is the whole video was a setup from the get go. We all know how conniving Ben is. Do you really think he made Jack feel bad enough to operate on him without thinking Jack might intentionally let something happen. He's too smart for that.
I always suspected the video as another reason to get Jack into surgery. Juliett was playing Jack to get into surgery knowing he wouldn't let him die once in there becuase of his fix it mentality. Why else was Juliett so convinced Jack would not let Ben die on the table as she said.
The whole thing is a ploy to break Jack down, and I don't think we have seen the end of it yet. Jack still thinks he has some control.
Maven, Memphish, Capcom, Ange, Scoutpost, and anyone else using a Blogger account...
Seriously, you should consider converting your account to a Google account. You will only need to log in once every few days, and no more WV.
To convert your account, just go to the Blogger home page.
Also, for anyone using Internet Explorer (IE), if you use Firefox instead, you wont get that annoying "This page contains both secure and nonsecure items." error message.
That error reminds me of the new Apple commercial - "You are pointing out Internet Explorer flaws, Cancel or Allow?"
Dennis said... That error reminds me of the new Apple commercial - "You are pointing out Windows' flaws, Cancel or Allow?"
That explains it Dennis. Your one of those MAC people. How can you even talk crap when Safari is their best attempt at a browser.
MS rules the world :) I hope you realize I am totally joking.
fenris: my point exactly.
diggity: theories. we don't WRITE the show. we watch it like everyone else. all speculation and guessing for the most part until it unfolds.
i think ben is crafty, but i don't think he PLANNED to have jack sever an artery, let kate and sawyer escape, have room 23 infiltrated and let pickett get shot. sheesh.
Quite an intelligent ploy by Ben there.
I certainly never saw it coming.
DiggityDirge said... That explains it Dennis. Your one of those MAC people. How can you even talk crap when Safari is their best attempt at a browser.
LIBEL! I am a PC guy through and through. I don't even have an iPod!
I am a programmer, so I'm a bit of a nerd though...
Dennis, I did get a google account and logged into blogger with it, but I still have WV. I don't have a gmail account. I'm using my standard email. My only guess is that that is the difference. I don't really want gmail. I do on the other hand want a Mac. My next computer will definitely be a Mac.
chuckelz,
exactly...everything I just wrote is total specualtion and is my point of view. I thought that was the point of this forum. To theorize and speculate on the data we have until it plays out. I think is pretty clear at this point that you don't agree with my point of view, and vice versa.
However, I think you took what I said a bit too far bro. I never said he expected to have Jack cut an artery. Juliett actaully suggested it. The point I was trying to make is I don't see the Juliett vs Ben thing as clearly as everyone else does.
The whole point of the first 6 epi's "in my opionion" and I said this many times in the comments for those epi's, was to break Jack down and use Sawyer and Kate against Jack to get him to do something. The something turned out to be a surgery.
I think the video was a part of this ploy. You don't think Ben is smart enough to think his enemy might have an secondary motive like leting him die. They had to depend on the data that they had on Jack that he wouldn't let Ben die. Ben was doing anything to get Jack to operate, and I think the video was another ploy to achieve that goal. Convince Jack is he is doing them a service by killing Ben, and then actually see if he follow through on it. That would achieve two goals: 1. Get Jack in the operating room. 2. Make him choose to kill Ben (who was going to die anyway) when he lay thereinf ront of him needing fixing.
Ahhhh, long Fenris posts again, all is right with the world! :o) Wow, brainwashing of Kate and Michael, great theories! And you almost did notice the exact moment when Kate got her b*lls back, and began to fight back at that building. I also like your Jacob(with a God-complex?) and Smokey connection...it does fit in that Smokey liked Eko when he was a priest, but not after Eko became smug (or confused) about repentance. I always felt that Eko never really came to understand repentance ever since his childhood, because of that mean lady forcing him to repent in the church. :-(
Copy-that Blueheron, first and last time I will ever pre-read an episode synopsis. Had to do it once, I suppose, just to find out how it felt to do it. But on the things that we've speculated to high-heavens, TPTB saying what we've already said doesn't feel spoilery to me, but I do have my limits now.
I like how you put the Jack/Juliet/Ben thing Diggity. Did the use of Kate to break Jack kind of backfire though, when he saw that she was asking him to do the surgery so they wouldn't kill Sawyer? Or was that just an act on his part when he got ticked off like that? Or was he merely P.O'd because they tried to use Kate to prod him? Arggg! Someone please tell me what to think! :o)
Dennis: Like Memphish, I did convert Blogger account to Google. I have to "log on" for the first comment of the day with my Google u/n and p/w. Still getting those pesky WV's. Andno matter how careful I am in copying them, it usually takes at least twice to post.
(Just happened again!)
Capcom: I think it's a little of both. Jack was pissed at Ben for using Kate and was pissed at Kate for getting closer to Sawyer. He probably felt it wasn't fair for them to be together and he was by himself.
And I think that both Ben and Juliette truly believed that Jack would never let Ben die on the table. They just needed to get him into that operating room...and all they ploys worked. Juliette probably was working with Ben in a deal that if she could get him to operate on him, then she can go home.
Hmmmmm, interesting Maven, thanks! I like "a little of both" answers. :o)
Last comment today:
Capcom,
I believe that as a last ditch attempt to get Jack to operate on him, Ben (1) had Juliet bring in Kate, knowing that Kate would tell of the threat to Sawyer's life, and (2) arranged for Jack to see Kate and Sawyer together in the cage via the monitors. Ben was hoping (I'm guessing) that because of these two events, Jack would conclude that Kate cared more for Sawyer than for him, and would thus want to perform the operation so he could then be transported off the island and away from Kate.
But, as we see, Jack only pretends that he desparately wants off the island, when in reality he is willing to sacrifice himself to try to save his friends. Ben apparently did not count on this.
That's the theory I'm going with at the moment. Have a good weekend, everyone.
So who's been brainwashed? That's the topic before the house. I don't think Michael was. He was easy enough to manipulate without resorting to The Room. Anything for "ma boy." Showing him Walt for 3 minutes was much more effective than "God loves you as he loved Jacob." (Don't want to rag on Michael too much. I've got a boy too.)
Now Kate. I hope they brainwashed her. I still need an explanation other than the dress for her behavior in most of Episodes 1-6. Strapping her into the seat, struggling against the cuffs while she watches a video, then I could by those wrist injuries. And then the building triggers her old self? Don't really know how that would work. After all it was Kate who came up with the Wookie prisoner gag and again I wish she had shot Aldo in the knee.
I know from the Lost Moments it seems we'll see at least one other person who was put in The Room. At least I hope that explains that strange Lost Moment behavior.
Will that put Jack in it? I think that's a question we'll be asking ourselves most of Season 3 and maybe into Season 4.
And was Walt able to beat the system? That would be cool. I really want an explanation for him.
Wonder how many times I have to enter wv this post? Two at least.
I want to chime in on the Jack/Kate scene from I Do. I think it ends the way it does because Jack immediately realizes that Kate has only been brought there to manipulate him and is fed up with Juliet and Ben's games. That's why he looks into the camera to end it. He yells at Kate to try to determine her motives expeditiously. He learned back in Season 1 in Whatever the Case May Be that asking her politely for the truth doesn't work, but screaming at her does. Now that I type that I wonder if Wayne acted that way? I still feel like there is a piece of the Wayne puzzle missing.
aaaahhh. good. i finally got my point across to you diggity.
that's kinda' what i've been trying to get across to YOU for the past couple of days. sheesh.
hahahaha.
OK, one more comment:
I really don't think Ben and Juliet were working together the whole time.
I believe that the whole "breaking down" of Jack was supposed to take 2 weeks, like Ben said. (Remember that Pickett was surprised that the operation was going to take place sooner than 2 weeks. Juliet had to tell him the schedule was "moved up".)
I believe that Juliet hung up the X-rays of Ben without his knowledge, as Ben seems genuinely troubled by this in a private conversation with Juliet that Jack can't hear (at Colleen's funeral).
In summary, I think Juliet really wants off the island, and that she has become desparate enough to do just about anything to accomplish that goal, including having Ben killed. I don't think they are on the same side at all.
can we do something to kate to keep her from shifting sides so much in terms of sawyer and jack? please!
they're fighting for their lives continuously on the island and constantly struggling to survive. yet, we have a "love triangle".
i mean, it's not "horrible", but less time on THAT CRAP and more time utilized to "close doors" would be appreciated.
just a random thought.
anyone else think it "odd" that Tom kinda "smirked" when jack told him that juliet really said that she wanted jack to let ben die on the table?
or did i see something that wasn't there?
Blueheron saidI believe that Juliet hung up the X-rays of Ben without his knowledge. I like that. Good idea.
Chucklez, better get used to more triangle action, and even larger geometric formation. Cuse has said he thinks more people care about who Kate chooses than the Dharma Initiative (or some other mythological aspect.) The triangle, like the poor, will always be with us, unless and until one or more of them die which I don't see happening until episode 99 of a 100 episode series run.
ms O posted this in our myspace.
not sure if it's been touched on.
===================================
Some of my losties don't venture into the Lost Group so thought I should share this with ya'll! Thanks Odi, Anna and Jorge!
The ODI wrote:
anna naranja wrote:
Jorge wrote:
the scene with Karl strapped to the chair in Room 23. There is a backwards message in the first half of the film (this is a technique called "backmasking"). It's a woman repeating the phrase "Only fools are enslaved by time and space".
wanted to add this in here, as it immediately relates,
and even kinda freaks me out!
LISTEN HERE
ONLY FOOLS ARE ENSLAVED BY TIME AND SPACE[/QUOTE]
here is the link to buddhism.......
Jorge wrote:
Looks like another Buddhism reference:
dharmaweb.org
"The wise know how to use time and space perfectly; they lead free and harmonious lives. Fools are enslaved by time and space; they are busy running around all day. Wise or foolish, the difference is obvious."
OK, now that's all starting to gell for me, thanks everyone!
Nice theories on the brainwashing Memphish, and I agree, Mikey didn't need any help in becomming a lit fuse on a mission of madness! It also seemed sometimes as if Mike felt pained that he had to do what he was doing (props to his acting skills there) and if he was brainwashed, he would not have cared.
And right, I don't what it was that snapped Kate out of her funk -- or maybe it was just the thrill of RUNNING again! -- and gave her her chops back, but she was good ol' Kate again when she grabbed the rifle for sure!
As for Tom, I thought that it looked more like a "Yer sh*ttin' me" look that he gave Jack when he told him what Juliet said. Or maybe, "It figures."
dammit. the links didn't come through.
Listen HERE. about halfway through.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwWhM8Xb_oQ&eurl=
Wow chucklez that it cool! But, if you could master time and space, wouldn't you go get your tumor dealt with in a more effective manner than relying on the spinal surgeon you've been creeping out or actively alienated for 65 days? I can't reconcile Ben's behavior vis a vis his illness and their alledged ability to "go home."
I love it that TPTB can use Jorge to get insane stuff like this out to us nuts on the net.
i think it's referring to "thinking" in linear time and space. not CHANGING IT.
Hmmm bear with me here, but how long was Desmond missing before he showed up nekkid in the jungle after the implosion? I was remember thinking then (but I purged my DVR and can't re-watch) that something had happened to him seeing he was the only one to come out of that sans clothing, and with insight into the future. Maybe he was made to visit room 23, or one like it. Maybe it triggered a dormant part of his brain, and he can now see things that are going to happen. Of course this all depends on how long he was missing, etc...anyone?
Is it that Jorge?
Good point Capcom. I still think that the use of Sawyer and Kate worked becuase it was ultimately Jack seeing them cuddling in the cage while he mysteriously could rome free into the hatch security room, is what sparred him to do the surgery. This occurred after Kate begging Jack to do the surgery.
I don' think it is realistic that Ben anticipated every move. I just think he is smart enough to know his enemy might try something fishy while under the knife.
From Ben's perspective, Jack could only be doing the surgery for one of two reasons. To get off the island, or to help Sawyer and Kate. He would need to have a plan either way to succeed.
Keep in mind the two things we for sure know about Jack: He is stubborn and will always fix something that is broken. I was very suprised to see Jack turn their plan against them by helping Kate and Sawyer. I never saw it coming, but was glad to see his true character show.
But Juliett was certain Jack would not let Ben die on the table, even after she suggested it. I think if she was serious about the plot, she wouldn't have sent people to get Sawyer and Kate.
If you were in Jack's shoes, what would be the first thing you would have said back to her besides calling her some mean names? "You told me to do this and now your going to kill my friends."
i used to have a theory when i was younger that because we (humans) can't think of time or space being INFINITE, that MAYBE it's not. maybe, at some point, it actually comes back around. Which would explain hiccups like de ja vu, etc.
I don't know. just something i used to like thinking about.
But seriously.......can you imagine there being a point in time where.......well.......there WAS NO TIME???? impossible to fathom, really. Or space having an actual END??? Again, what's at the end?? Again, impossible to comprehend or explain.
This is why we developed linear time, because we have no explanation and time and space are both so VAST, we couldn't possibly realize that it actually "flips" at some point.
I don't know. just something to toss out from my childhood. Apologies for the rant.
Chucklez: Thanks for the backwards video link. That's every eerie! Most of are enslaved by time (I'm late, I'm late!), and I don't know how one would let time and space go. All this talk of black holes, bending time, etc. is way over my head.
Ben seems very enslaved by time, knowing he has a limited time to live unless that tumor comes out, and was very precise re the "three minutes" with Juliette.
Backmasking? Paul is dead.
Ange asked: ...how long was Desmond missing before he showed up nekkid in the jungle after the implosion?
Wasn't it just a short period of time? As long as it took Hurley to walk back from the Pala Ferry to when he got a good look at Desmond. I don't think there was time or opportunity for Desmond to be brainwashed. I'm thinking that the implosion probably triggered something, or he hit his head.
I remember thinking at the time, that even when Charlie walked back into camp after the implosion, nobody seemed that interested, so I gather he was not missing for a while.
OK, it's official. Blood from my brain is going to shoot out of my eyes and ears if we now have to check all the episodes for backmasking and secret messages. :-O
Ange, I guess those are a couple of the big questions from S-2: why everyone was so nonchalant after the implosion, and how long Dez was out-cold and nekkid. I'd like to know too.....soon. I think TPTB said that we will.
Yeah, that was quite crazy and a nice thing to add. i'm wondering how it was figured out that it was even there.
when they first walked in, i tried to read the writing on the wall that was backwards, but failed. good grief. hahaha.
Thanks and bravo for all your fantastic observations, links, and comments today everyone! I shall now sign off for the night in a very immature manner.....the best 'wv' I got handed today was: ppmaan
It looked like a name for an incontintent super-hero, cracked me up! All this blogging must be making me punchy. 'Night all! :o)
Okay just chatting with Lena on MSN, and she has posted the Ms. O stuff on her MySpace blog too. She has made an interesting observation. Rose mentioned upon hearing the monster once, that it sounded familiar. And there is a sound in the background of the backward video that sounds like the sound she was referencing. So Lena thinks that perhaps they all, as kids, or at some point, have been in a room with a film, or that sound...something to think about. Here are the links to her MySpace blog if any care to have a look-see:
Lena's Blog
Right...off for the night.
Does anyone else think that Tom is an original Dharma member because of the comment he made about the bears... or is this just me?
Dedjezter, I agree about Tom. He's the right age. His statement about the bears fits. His statement to Kate about not being his type I think is not a reference to his sexual orientation, but to the "good" people thing again and Kate is not a "good" person.
Off to get coffee because my fingers aren't working yet this morning.
Sign you are a Lost-aholic #15 - In your dream, set in your house, with your family, Sayid is present to add his McGyver skills to help with the crisis.
Sign you are a Lost-aholic #16 - when you wake up to get Sayid out of your dreams you use the time to come up with new theories and even right them down so you can type them here in the morning.
Now without further ado, here is my new Oz Theory of Arrival and Departures. We've been talking a lot about can they leave the island. I think the ability to arrive on the island requies a perfect storm of conditions such as Dorothy's tornado which brought her to Oz. Danielle's team crashed in a storm, Desmond crashed in a storm, Flight 815 crashed due to Desmond, willing to bet the real Henry Gale crashed in a storm. But somehow Mittelos (or whoever they are fronting) was able to bring Juliet and Ethan to the island presumably on their own schedule. My guess is that "before the sky turned purple" they were able to communicate to the outside world and determine when these perfect storm conditions would occur and plan arrivals accordingly.
But what about departures? Desmond tried to leave and couldn't. Likewise the remains of the raft were pulled back into shore. Juliet also says of Sayid, Sun and Jin to let them just sail around they won't get away. The only persons we know of that have seemingly left are Michael and Walt. But did they really leave? Ben told them that heading would allow them to "find rescue." That always sounded weird. Maybe they are on the third island you can see on the Mittelos website, thinking that they are nice and comfy and waiting on that plane that's never going to arrive. (I know that map is not canon, but I seriously don't think Michael and Walt are back in our world.) Similarly, we never find out (well if I read the books maybe I would, but I'm relying on the movie) that the wizard made it out of Oz on his balloon. Maybe he's on Island #3 as well with Amelia Earhart, John Kennedy and Elvis.
So can you leave? How? Click your heels together and say there's no place like home? After you learn the lesson. Now that's pretty LOST like. You have to learn a lesson before you're allowed to depart. And so far all true departures have been via death. (Ah purgatory rears it's ugly head again. Really, it's a good theory. Maybe someone should make that show.)
My guess is that Ben like Glenda the Good Witch (now put a picture of Ben dressed as Glenda in your mind) is the one person who holds that answer. And now he's told Juliet that she's closer to getting it out of him than ever before. He may even have told her she can go home like he told Jack. And since that is what she truly wants she's willing to grasp at that extended straw even though she knows Ben is probably lying.
So there you go. Start punching holes in in it. I've got more to say about the purple sky thing, but I'll put it in another comment.
memphish said... His statement to Kate about not being his type I think is not a reference to his sexual orientation, but to the "good" people thing again and Kate is not a "good" person.
That's what I originally thought but seeing how he reacts to Ben having surgery and looking scared, like he's going to lose the love of his life if Jack lets him die, kinda got me thinking. But, it could just be Ben is the lead Other and Tom is worried about what will happen to him and the others if he does die.
Three cups of coffee and a chocolate doughnut later, we'll see if I can type. (Answer no. I even mistyped type just now.)
The purple sky. When Jack asks Tom why didn't you just take him off the island and Tom starts to answer but gets cut off by the 2nd nicked artery, I don't think Tom was really going to answer that question. I think the purple sky comment was going somewhere else, unless the sky turned purple some other time we haven't seen because it didn't appear to turn purple when the plane crashed and Ben only learned of his tumor 2 days before that.
Which raises another question. What were the circumstances that led to the discovery of Ben's tumor? I still like that Juliet was trying to impregnate him answer for the sheer humor in it.
Back to Jack cutting off Tom's answer. This happens a lot on Lost, of course, but the scene it most reminded me of was the one in The Hunting Party when Locke asks Tom "How do you know our names?" and Jack cuts him off.
I think I've figured out why Jack isn't really interested in the answers we are interested in. It is because surgeon Jack is too much like my surgeon hubby in that he thinks he knows the answer and doesn't need to actually hear it. Hubby is the master of cutting off my answers with what he thinks I'm going to say and I even caught him doing it to our son last night. As usual, he was wrong. I often end up asking him if he'd like to guess again. I think Jack suffers from this affliction as well, and now I understand Sarah better.
Wow you really can't miss a day around here. Very good discussion yesterday! Memphish- I like your OZ Arrival and Departure theory. Don't know if it will pan out as true, but that is a good thought. Sorry you can relate so well to Sarah! (But then what husband doesn't have some of that quality?!) LOL
Someone referenced an EW article by Scott Brown that had some pretty humorous character summaries- my favorite being:
NIKKI AND PAOLO
I refuse to accept these characters. I still think of them as random TV viewers who won a sweepstakes.
Don't we all feel that way?! Ah well, if I think of anything insightful that someone hasn't already said I'll add it later. Meanwhile have a great weekend.
Hi Guys,
Just tried to skim the last 300 comments, I have the kids on my own this weekend so I can only get online when they're asleep. And I really can't access the blog from work, we had an email come round from IT saying that they knew some people were circumnavigating the restrictions on certain sites (blogger, myspace etc) and they new who they were (ie me) so it had better stop :(
Anyway just some thoughts -
Um the bus, yes it was an Apollo Ad, Ryan who used to do the transmission podcast got a few really good photos of the bus when they were filming it a few months back.
Now there is a good reason why they use Apollo Candy and Dharma food. Any product that is used in a TV show or film has to be cleared with the manufacturers. This is the Job of the Script CoOrdinator, Gregg Nations. Now Gregg regularly comments on the Fuselage and he confirmed that they approached varios food companies, but because of the nature of Lost they couldn't reveal the plot so all the manufactures got cold feet as they didn't want their products associated with something that may turn out to be dodgy. TPTB therefore came up with Apollo Candy and Dharma food!
On a completely different topic, I think the relevence of the time that Juliet has been on the Island is that it coincides with the arrival of Desmond. In other words, the Island was made accessible to allow Juliet and Ethan to get to the Island, unfortunately at the same time the storm blew Desmond on to the Island!
Scoutpost love your N**** and P**** theory :)
Scoutpost said: NIKKI AND PAOLO
I refuse to accept these characters. I still think of them as random TV viewers who won a sweepstakes.
LOL
TPTB keep promising that their presence will eventually mean something! According to Locke: Everything has a reason. I guess patience is a virtue!
DA- Hope you don't get in trouble at work! Glad to see you here this weekend though.
Yes, I've heard that that TPTB have said N**** and P**** are going to have some significance down the line, but until then I also refuse to accept them as characters. LOL
Just had a thought about the electromagnetism and pregnancy on the Island. Assuming that Island residence caused a 26-year-old womb to look like a 70-year-old one, I'm now betting that Sun was pregnant when she arrived on the Island, thus the baby is Jae's not Jin's. Further, the electromagnetism will cause her to miscarry. Finally, this is also the reason Ethan was so concerned for Claire and wanted to perform a hasty C-section--to prevent damage to the baby caused by the severe damage the electromagnatism causes to the endometrium.
If anyone knows how to turn off the Lost portion of their brain, I'd appreciate it.
wv=ifrfa sounds like the militaristic warren in Watership Down.
So many posts, so little time...(Lost time?)
Trying to catch up, Great episode.
TLCM, hope you were able to enjoy it too. Talk amongst yourselves.
Not In Portland
Dr Edmund Burke
Any Thoughts?
http://lostdude.com/lostpics/LOST.S03.E07.HR-1703D_2.jpg
Hi LoCos,
About Tom's feelings at the loss of Ben, it could also mean that if there was/is indeed some kind of power struggle on the island between DI factions, the loss of Ben might put their "team" in a very vulnerable position. This may not bother Juliet too much, she may have as much of a chance of (not) leaving the island with the other group leader(s), as she does with Ben. But Tom may have been merely swept with a moment of panic at the thought of another power duel or territorial conflict on the island. They are probably still recovering mentally, if not also physically, from that if it did happen.
Good point about Dez's shipwrecked arrival happening when/if the portal to the island was "opened" for Juliet's arrival. Now if she mentions to Jack that "it was a dark and stormy night" when she got to the island, we know for sure!
DA, since that is the case, I am thrilled to see Dharma products instead of Pepsi and Coke, or Viagra in the hatch! I get sick of seeing blatant product placement every five minutes in TV and movies. But now that Lost is so popular I bet that the ones who turned TPTB down, now have welts on their foreheads from smacking them so much. D'oh! And isn't it so much more juicy when we get to say, "It says Widmore on that pregnancy test!" :-D It is still curious why the Apollo bar on the bus was the 2006 wrapper, and not the Dharma logo'd wrapper on the bars that Kate found. Maybe just a "Hi there!" from TPTB to us.
I don't have a clue or theory yet where Rose might have heard the monster noise previously, but the noise could also have been put into the psych video to train or condition people to have a certain reaction to it when they hear it in the woods? I dunno.
Very enjoyable posts, peeps!
Ciao
Hey All, can I bounce something off of you?
Pickett's personality has *really* been bothering me, ever since the first leg of season 3. We have been led to believe (via the TLE, etc.) that the DI people are the best and the brightest (Alvar's words?) in the universe, chosen especially for this very important gigantic project of theirs. So why is/was he such a big stupid lug-nut?! It seems more like he is one of those half human, half animal people from the island of Dr. Moreau! He may have been smart enough to be a Dharma-ite, but he seemed to not have much control over his emotions. That doesn't seem like a very DeGroot kind of approved behavior...especially since behavior was so important to them. And if he was such an emotional time-bomb, why wouldn't they put him (back?) into The Room to settle him down?
Oh well, just thought I'd ask anyone who might care to roll it around in their brain too, or in case someone has seen it discussed somewhere else. Tx. :o)
I'm probably the only one with this opinion but I'm not sure that any or all of the others are from Dharma. Some might be but I certainly don't think they all are.
I don't think Kelvin was referring to these others when he talked about the hostiles. I think it was a different group.
Found this link at Defamer.com -- "Lost film is ruined by security X-ray at airport in Honolulu":
http://www.breitbart.com/news/na/cp_e020951A.xml.html
Yikes. I would not want to be the person who mistook the case with the canisters with regular luggage! Article says, "The TV crew had to reshoot, at a cost the producers would not mention."
Donald Trump, any comment? "You're fired!" :o)
Sayid'sgirl, I think that Kelvin meant someone else besides those in Otherville and the Hydra as well.
Over a month old interview with Michael Emerson done by the guys at Comic News Insider.
http://media.libsyn.com/media/cni/CNI70.mp3
43 mins in: Emerson: "What if the Others are pretty damn nearly XXXXX, but there's one little thing different....Why are they a little XXXXXXXX?
Hey All,
I figger Goldie Locks (Juliet) Was being recruited by Mittlos because of her unethical research methods. She sneaks into a lab at night, to steal drugs to inject and impregnate her ailing sister. Somehow she can reconcile that in her warped mind. That sounds like the kind of Dr. Frankenstein that Dharma Island needs.
Well there was no mention of Nikkei or Palo in this episode or in the trailers for next week. I wonder what evil their up to?
Alex said there was no tunnel, that's right. The tunnels are on the island just like on the blast door map. The Palla Ferry is the transport to the Hydra, no tunnels needed.
Dig Y'all Later
43 mins in: Emerson: "What if the Others are pretty damn nearly XXXXX, but there's one little thing different....Why are they a little XXXXXXXX?
If people want to know what's in the XX's, they can Google the first part of the quotation ("What if the Others are pretty damn nearly") and click the one single link that comes up.
Very, very intriguing.
TBM and BP- Holy Crap! Now I have to go listen to the podcast. What the heck?!
TBP, you are a spoiler tease.
Totengraber - like the idea about Juliet being Dr. Frankenstein. Have y'all figured out yet I don't like her. Grrr. Like the new Avi too, though the fish biscuit, ah the fish biscuit. Guess those days are over, or are they just beginning for Jack?
Anyone think now that the Lost Time anagram was just a reference to Juliet and how she's lost 3 years of her life? The other ideas are more fun, but this would be the obvious reference wouldn't it? Maybe Lost Time is just time you spend on the Island lost from your real life.
For some Lost creativity check out this band that writes and records songs after each episode. All their songs are here except for the latest "Hit by a Bus" which you can hear here.
Thanks Memphish.
the Google Blogger shrunk my mighty Fish Biscuit to a mini gold fish, so I had to scribble up a new one.
Yeah, Hit by a Bus! That discribes the whole episode, it should've been the title. At work all I had to say was "How 'bout that hit by a bus" and everybody started grinning.
Y'all look out for them Crazy Space B's
I wonder if there is some connection between Rachel and Jacob. In the Bible, Jacob loved Rachel and worked seven years to marry her. Is Juliet's sister (Rachel) and Jacob on the brainwashing screen a coincidence?
Kathy taylor: Nothing is a coincidence in Lost! LOL The producers have always said that every name has a meaning and given for a purpose. Remember Jacob is the one with the mysterious "list", too. He must be someone in charge (could be Mr. Patchy). I don't know about Rachel and Jacob getting together. I'd like to thibk the name Rachel is just a shout out to this summer's TLE and Rachel Blake.
Thanks for the shortcut Bookpolice, much appreciated. Well, a post that was replied over there pretty much speculates what I have thought for a while. The Island of Dr. Moreau. And that would explain Pickett's doofy bullish behavior that annoyed me so much, if he were part clumsy-oaf-animal (no offense to animals). I really don't think that is where TPTB are going, but it's fun to think about until we get the real story.
Re; Tom and Ben: I still think that Tom was freaked that Ben might die due to the tension between factions. Emerson even mentioned this (the danger of the loss of their leader, not the Tom/Ben thing) in an interview somewhere. Sooo, that's my theory and I'm stickin' to it....until wrong. :o)
P.S. TLCM, I really hope that you are OK, we miss you. XO
Anyone ever have "one of those days"??
i've had a series of those equaling 3 weeks now. Life sucks.
Sorry, I have no one to talk to and thought I could vent. Well, carry on.
Sorry to hear that life has got ya down for a while Chucklez. :o( Just try to concentrate on the blessings in life until the bad patch is over. Sometimes that's all ya can do.
P.S. Chucklez, if you want an "off topic" place to talk, you might want to check out the blogging over at Stories of the Lost. David has given us a place to post about philosphical things pertaining to how our lives relate to what has happened on the series, etc. It's very interesting, we often go off on many esoteric tangents, and we give each other some pretty good advice at times, among other many reasons to check it out.
I have a new random thought to explain Pickett's never-ending desire to kill Sawyer. This is based on nothing but random connections in my brain. Here goes.
What if Pickett or his parents was also a victim of the real Sawyer? How cool would it be that we find out who the real Sawyer is (Anthony Cooper) as he's pulling a con on the Pickett family. Just like James Ford, Danny Pickett has lived with the desire for revenge on this man named Sawyer who destroyed his life and this surrogate Sawyer will serve the purpose. Maybe he's been even been brainwashed or conned a la James to think Sawyer is "the" Sawyer who forever changed the course of his life.
Chucklez3, sorry to hear things aren't going well. Hang in there.
Wow Memphish, that's deep......and interesting!
Memphish: That Pickett/Sawyer theory would really continue to connections that TPTB love to do, wouldn't it?
Chucklez3: Hope things get better for you. You can always vent here!
Hey Peeps, speaking of connections don't forget that we need to be on the lookout for who might be that waving sillouette person in the extras disk of the S-2 DVD! Like, maybe TPTB might give us clues or something? Sillouettes in the psych videos, etc.?
thanks to all of you.
really don't know what to do. ya know?
i don't have family or friends here, so i guess having people who listen is good enough.
sorry to bother. I just wish i could find my "understanding women handbook".
aaauuuuggghhhh!!!!!!!
Just keep breathing Chucklez honey. And remember, everything works itself out in the end. Promise.
WOW! I just read about the "only fools are enslaved by time and space" thing over at dark ufo site. This brings up some very interesting theories!!!!!!
Hey Christine! I'm not the only one up right now! I read that the other day. It is pretty deep and gives a lot to think about. Of course it also makes me realize what a big fool I am! lol
Ok off to bed now.
The new Offical Pocast is up at ABC.com.
memphish....
do you have advice to lend? maybe? or can you point me in the right direction?
eh. guess not.
chucklez3, women are the largest conundrum in the universe. Lost is way simpler than women, right ladies? Here's a suggestion though Chucklez that works with me, flowers, cards, candy on a day that is not Valentines, just because, are always appreciated. But make sure not to forget Valentine's Day either. Deliveries at work in front of co-workers earn you bonus points.
BTW, if you find that handbook, my hubby who I've been with for 20 years would love to borrow it. Some days(weeks) we just aren't explainable.
Don't know if any of this is directly applicable, but good luck and we'll lift you up brotha.
Oh, chucklez, don't know what to advise. Any friends nearer her that you could talk to to try to figure out what's going on? Women are masters at wanting you to guess what's wrong without giving our men anything to work with. Words like "funk" could cover anything. Good luck.
Gotta run and do carpool, grocery, etc. Back in a couple of hours.
memphish - That was really good advice to give. ;) Also - I like your explanation of 'Lost Time'. I totally agree.
3 tries to post this.
Have you guys seen the lastes post from The Heroic Lost Ninja? It sounds like something is going to happen. Maybe he's either going to be part of the Heroes 360 or maybe another Lost ARG?
http://au.blogs.yahoo.com/lostninja/8794/let-the-countdown-begin
http://www.archive.org/download/TLCpodcast_11/finished.mp3
Happy Monday!!!! This link should make you happy!!
I have a couple of new things, but I'm waiting for the next post. Guess I'm not alone. How many of us are sitting here waiting to type "First!"
hey memphish, did you read the 'Only fools are enslaved by time and space' over at darkufo? I read the comments from that article and some are claiming it to be a fake. What do you think?
i'm here, but just don't have much to say.
sorry. kinda' blah today, in light of my stuff.
i will gladly give feedback though if something is said.
jgz350, I saw it and I took it at face value. Are you saying that someone faked it like the Mittelos site? It so, good work whoever you are. As for my new take on Lost Time being merely the time everyone is losing from the real world, I applied Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation is usally right. So far in Season 3 that's definitely applied like the tumor being Ben's.
memphish, I like your new avatar, very cool. I'm not saying someone faked it, because I want to believe, but who would have known to backward mask that scene from the show? Why not backward mask the whole episode? I too agree with Occam's Razor and apply that as much as I can to Lost.
Does anyone know who it was that found the backmasking? It it was the Whispers people, I'd believe it was real. Those people know how to do crazy stuff like that. Has anyone checked to see what that group of people think about it?
Ms O posted it on myspace last week. I posted it here.
So what do we know about Ms. O? I guess I could dig around the Fuselage, but don't want to.
Post a Comment