Thursday, November 02, 2006

THE COST OF LIVING - SEASON 3, EPISODE 5 (POST 2)








Wow! The discussions have been great for this episode. Consider this post our invitation to comment like crazy through the weekend. Remember, if spoilers arise in the comments, please direct people to THIS perma-link containing the spoiler standards & definitions for this blog.

167 comments:

JustaFan2006 said...

The thing I don't get is why Ben doesn't just leave the island to get real medical assistance f he has a tumor and his condition is that serious.

JustaFan2006 said...

Also, I'm surprised that only one person (Cam, I think) picked up on the "rolling the stone away to find the body missing" theme when Eko moved the stones away from the plane and found Yemi's body missing. It seemed like a very obvious religious reference to me.

Dark Angel said...

Hi Justafan2006, I don't think that Ben can leave the Island, maybe the Islands healing powers are keeping the tumor at bay but cannot heal it completely, if Ben could levae the Islands he would die before he could get help.

Kvonhard the fake x-rays are a nice idea my only gripe would be is how did Juliet fake them, not that easy on the island I would imagine?

Melissa-Lossa I have to agree Ben intentionally got caught and I still wonder whether Danielle was in on the whole thing.

Shellma CONGRATULATIONS on the iminent arrival - a good excuse fro some time off TLC!

Isibell Yes I am completely with you that Desmond (and possibly) Walt have absalotely no control over their powers, it's a bit like you cant control what you smell. My wife has a very uncanny ability (curse?) of knowing when people are going to die, and I don't mean sick people.

With regards to the Smoke Monster I wonder whether it predates the Dharma Initiative but it was somehow 'tamed' by them hence all the mechanical sounds. What if it was a living manifestation of the magnetic anomoly (I'll spell that right one day) or perhaps feeds of it. When the Swan Hatch regulated the anomoly the Monster was controlled but now it is free.

Well I'm going to get on with some work and go and figure out what I am going to talk about for the next podcast!

Tall Guy said...

The Cost of Living didn't give us any direct answers as to the nature of the island, but it did join a lot of dots. We now know that many of the visions experienced by the survivors, have been manipulative manifestations of the Smoke Monster/Security System, and that the creature/machine has to use the bodies of the dead in the process somehow. As usual with Lost, any explanation is confused because there always contradictions, and this one's no different. Are the visions of Dave, the Black Horse and The Whisperers, also aspects of Smokey or are they something else?

Warning, wild theory ahead. I have a idea that the Dharma vaccine, which apparently does nothing, does have a real purpose after all. I believe that the Dhama scientists developed this vaccine in order to inhibits the Smoke Monster's influence on the mind, so that their workers could live on the island unmolested by psychic manipulation. Every nine days the workers and scientists would take the vaccine to keep a clear mind, unaffected by the Island's madness. Perhaps the Island's mind manipulations is the sickness that otherwise we've seen no sign of.

Dark Angel said...

Tall Guy Not a wild theory at all, very sensible, It may even be that treating Aaron in utero gives him some kind of permenant protection. It could be that Danielles crew (if she is telling the truth) were driven mad by visions generated by old smokey, or perhaps just Danielle was. They were in the Smoke Monsters territory and therefore more suseptible to it's influence.

Dark Angel said...

Tall Guy BTW love the artwork and the comic strip on your website. Have you thought about doing any Lost artwork?

JGZ350 said...

Good Morning all-

Hey There DA, how are things?

Top 10!

Wow on your wife's uncanny ability to know when people are going to die. Does she have control over it or is it just there and she has no control over it? As far as Desmond's new found powers go, I said in the previous blog that maybe Desmond did know that Mr. Eko was going to buy it and didn't want to interfere with fate. Remember what Locke told Desmond regarding Fate, "You should not mistake coinencedence with Fate".

Dark Angel said...

Hi jgz350,

Glad it's a Friday

Wow on your wife's uncanny ability to know when people are going to die. Does she have control over it or is it just there and she has no control over it?

She has no control whatsoever, she just gets a massive feeling of dread and just knows what's going to happen, no specifics just that the person is going to die and a rough timescale. She knew her grandmother was going to die before our wedding, and she was in full health but low and behold she collapsed from a heart attack out of the blue. It was the same with our dog, we were taking our dog out for a walk and she got an overriding feeling that we should not go out or our dog, Maggie would die, she thought she was being stupid and decided to ignore her intuition, unfortunetely later that night Maggie disapeared and was killed by a car!

It's a good point about Eko, Iam hoping to see the episode tonight but it would make sense, it is possible that Desmond can see the long term outcome of events or even see all possible outcomes and knows that Eko could not be saved but to try would mean even more death.

Jolly subject for such a sunny day eh!

ib4uc said...

dark angel... man, that's freaky. If she ever tells you not to go somewhere, I hope you listen :)

CattyGirl said...

Anyone know where I can find a list of what music has been used on Lost?

thinbluemime said...

cattygirl, http://www.losthatch.com
may have what you need.

They have databases of Lost that include, transcripts, books, music, characters etc.

Fully searchable and a labor of love by the guys and gals at losthatch.com

Fat Lazy Guy said...

Just wanted to say that we still haven't seen the smoke monster transform into anyone yet.

CattyGirl said...

thinbluemime - thank you so much. That was exactly what I was looking for!

Melissa_Lossa said...

Tall Guy - I think that's a great theory, and makes pefect sense. Could also be that the "vaccine" somehow contributed to Desmond's new powers.

Actually, I've been assuming that he had the powers before he came to the island, because he seems so comfortable with them already. When he slipped with Hurley, he acted more like he had said something that he shouldn't, rather than realizing that something starnge had happened. The big question has been though, if he could see the future, why didn't he se what Kelvin was up to? This could answer that question - if the "vaccine" warded off the effects of the smoke monster, perhaps it also dampened Desmond's abilities.

Remember, when he left the hatch, he took a bunch of vaccine with him, but by the time he returned to the beach, he was no longer taking it. Maybe the EMP wasn't entirely responsible for his powers returning - maybe he's finally gotten whatever was inthose vials out of his system.

Dark Angel said...

Ib4uc said

dark angel... man, that's freaky. If she ever tells you not to go somewhere, I hope you listen :)

Oh Yeah.....

volsnvikes said...

Dark Angel,

As long as she doesn't abuse it.
"Honey, I have a really bad feeling about you going out with your buddies. The feeling would probably go away if you stayed home and cleaned out the gutters."

Dennis said...

Good Morning Everyone!

Dark Angel said...

Volsnvikes LOL

Actually I think I'm Ok as the whole thing freaks her out.

Dennis Good Morning / Afternoon

Anonymous said...

Many people seem annoyed at the apparent lack of communication between the losties.

I used to be, but not now, and this is how I rationalised it;

Here you've got what, 30-odd people on the island. They're making do, living day to day. They all have their own relationships to worry about and things to do. Only a small number of them ever even knew what the Hatch was, and probably, given that they're got to eat, stay warm, clean, look after their own - most of them probably don't care. They don't care what the small group of them involved in weird stuff with purple skies and guns are up to. Would you? Would you want to go off with guns and worry about metaphysical aspects of the island you've crashed on, or would you want to cook and clean and stay with your friends/family/significant other?

Anyone here who has ever tried to organise a project with a disparate group of people will know that it's very hard to get them all onboard, on message. Even with a good reason to do something there is never agreement, accord or a universal will. Everyone is driven by different things. All you can do is work with the people who want to.

Also, our core group of go-getters, Sayid, Locke, Jack, etc - fulfil a role for the rest of the losties. They have put themselves in that position because they themselves ARE the go-getters, the conflicted individuals with a drive to seek answers even though it is dangerous. That's part of the point of Lost and why we get their flashbacks. Everyone else depends and expects them to get things done without really caring about the details, as long as they feel safe and fed.

So they aren't going to go crazy when Sayid and Sun and Jin return on a boat. They wouldn't know they'd gone, they wouldn't know why - perhaps just for a nice sail. They won't care when Locke returns after the Hatch explosion - they weren't sure what this Hatch thing was, they didn't know the purple sky was anything to do with it, and they didn't know Locke had been in it. Even if you sat them down and explained, they'd just say:

"Well how about that. Are we going home now? Oh, well, did you get the food out of there? Oh. Well thanks for explaining it to me, good to see you're OK - I gotta run now, they're cooking the fish and someone found a bottle of wine, you want to come with? You're what? Going to break into another hatch? Didn't the other one just blow up? What's in this one then, food? You don't know yet. Well OK, good luck with that - see ya later"

What WOULD have been silly is if every single lostie, right after the crash, got together in one big group and all perfectly agreed to commit themselves as a whole to a single course of action and function as a unit.

Kind of like the Others. Who DO communicate everything between themselves and work together. Maybe there's something in that.

Dark Angel said...

Redhex Good point, everyone seems to come together when they are under imediate threat but beyond that as you say, why are they going to go off galavanting with those armed loons that keep getting themslves killed, better to lay back and eat mangos, life ain't so bad :)

Cam794 said...

Morning All!

ib4uc said...

Morning cam.

maven said...

Morning!

Redhex: A lot of what you say makes sense. I realize there are A and B personalities...those that take charge and those that don't. Those that are curious and those that aren't. But I still find it odd that all these people survived a horrific plane crash and are on an island together. There has to be some bonding going on. The group is not THAT large. I know that survival and comfort are the number one priority of most people, along with getting food and water, but with all the strange goings on happening on the island, you would think more survivors would be curious about their surroundings. I know that this is a TV show and there are main characters and extras (and you have to pay actors for speaking lines), but I would like more scenes of the group getting together when something big happens, or someone comes back after being in the jungle for a while, or returning on a sailboat, or someone walks into camp with wounds.

I would think that once the Swan was found and opened and they saw all the creature comforts...more Losties would have been there. Out of 40+ people we only saw a handful hanging out around there.

Tall Guy said...

Dark Angel

I would love to do some Lost artwork, but although I can draw many things, I'm crap at likenessess. However, I am going to have a go.

Melissa_Lossa said...

redhex - I agree with you about the communication issues. I also think that they tried to address them a little bit in this past episode. Nikki at least seemed to know a little bit about what was going on (she knew that Eko's brother had been in the plane), so somebody must have been talking - probably Charlie.

They also had Hurley and Locke's conversation about how Jack would just grab Sayid and Kate and head off on their own without telling anyone what they were doing, while Locke opened things up to everyone. I think part of this goes back to the fact that Jack has some major trust issues, while Locke is more trusting.

Melissa_Lossa said...

I agree with you, too, maven - I wish that they would have more of a group reaction when major things happen. Beyond that, I understand that the show would be very boring if every other scene was some extra asking "so, what's going on?" I just wish that they would at least give more of an indication that conversations are going on off-camera.

maven said...

FYI: Article in today's LA Times titled "Leaving Fans with Deep Sense of Loss - Mr. Eko's death on 'Lost' prompts anger and sadness. Adewale Akinnouye-Agbaje says the time was right" about Mr. Eko's death.

Article talks about the smoke monster. It says Mr. Eko once had confronted the monster and forced it to retreat, this time surrendered, reciting the 23rd Psalm. When planning Mr. Eko's death, Lindelof said (in regards to the previous showdown of Eko and the monster): "What if the monster did not give up, as it seemed at the time? What if the monster was just intelligence-gathering for a later date?" Cuse said: "We wanted to make clear that the monster remains a dangerous force." The actor said the his character's story arc wsas designed to "provoke thought and evaluation of your choices, your judgments, and what you believe." He also said that once Mr. Eko helped Locke find his faith again, his mission on the island was realized. "The way he died is brutal, but it's a beautiful end." Akinuoye-Agbaje said, "Eko lived this life of torture, living double lives, and that's a lot of energy to be running for your life, pretending to be this guy, that guy, never really showing who you are...There was no point but to surrender (to death) so he just gave himself to it. Not out of fear, but acceptance."

Dennis said...

ITE just posted a link to a new EW article about Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje (Mr. Eko):

http://www.ew.com/ew/report/0,6115,1553848_3_0_,00.html

I just read it and I didn't see any spoilers.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Interesting article. I did get a sense of that when Yemi asked if Eko was ready, and Eko agreed that he was. I felt as if Yemi was asking if Eko was ready to die, and he accepted.

Of course, then Yemi turned out to be a violent monster who slammed Eko against a big tree, but the moment was there. :)

capcom said...

Kepa, I would LOVE it if the day comes when we do see Smokey turn into something. It would be like this: there is Smokey, hovering over someone or something (without them knowing he was there), and then -- FWOOP!! -- Smokey shrinks down into the size of a person or whatever it's imitating! That would be amazing. :-) TPTB could either make "him" do it immediately for shock value, or very slowly for the oh-my-gosh-look-what-it's-doing effect!

I hear what you're saying Redhex, but I would be one of those people who would be trying to survive AND talking about our plans, the freaky environment (because your environment does affect your plans, especially on Creephole island as we have seen) and generally whining about why Jack, Kate, Locke, et all, have not told me about everything that they have seen and found! :-D If I were Kate, I would have immediately told everyone (regardless of whether I was mad at Jack at the time) that I had found the fake beard and scurvy clothes in the med station! That would be a crucial piece of information for survival after the whole line-in-the-sand interaction.

BTW, I wonder if the crashcart being broken has anything to do with the Staff/med station being abandoned??? If the Others felt that they had to leave the station because Claire escaped and that threatened their exposure, it might have been too large to move, or cumbersome enough to get broken in the move.

Dennis said...

Here is a link to the LA Times story:

'Lost's' Mr. Eko says goodbye
http://www.calendarlive.com/tv/cl-et-lost3nov03,0,4151279.story

capcom said...

Wow, thanks Maven for that LA Times article, that explains some details that were ambiguous to me, and I have to say that I did not guess at all that Eko's giving in to death in acceptance, was one of the interpretations to choose. And the Smokey info is very interesting as well. Gosh.

Now I will go read the article that Dennis posted, thanks.

Cam794 said...

capcom yea that would be AWESOME! that would prove pretty much every1's theoery

maven said...

Thanks, Dennis, for posting that link to the LA Times article. I never have the patience or know-how to go searching for the original article on-line (although I do know how to post links thanks to TLE!).

Cam794 said...

yea how do you post links?

DeDJeZTeR said...

Yes TLCM you are correct that is who I was reffering to with the trixter and whore comment from yesterday.

I didn't mean to change the topic of the day and certainly meant do disrespect to anyone. I have my own beliefs and moral principles that have been developed over the 33 years I have spent on this dirtball. I was not attacking anyone and did not mean to come across that way if I did. I mearly think that as was said, it is the twisting of the words and beliefs that get everyone into trouble in the end.
Yes I exaggerated the numbers but I did it for a reason. WWII was listed in there as having more deaths than the crusades, and it did, but take into consideration how many different peoples were involved ion it and seperate them to their own kinds and the numbers dwindle. Yes it was not the most ever. It is however up there with the best of the worst in this planets history. You know the idea of learning from the past. Well if this was the case the US would not have made Isreal it's own place and things might have been different over there. And unfourtunatly we have a government who is filled with religious fanatics. Bush Sr. and Jr. are just a couple that come to mind. These are leaders who are letting their religious beliefs dictate how they run our country and for lack of better words they are running it into the ground, we should all know this.
I appreciate all the good that gets done in the name of gahd but just as much wrong, if not more, is done every day for the same reason.
I think the Bible, Quran, Old Testament, hell even the book of latter day saints, all got it right, but the church, masque, and whatnots have taken it way into the wrong.
To wrap this up I believe in Science, The Drake Equation, and that you should do onto others. The rest of it is all hogwash and folklore... nothing more.

I also appologize early in case this gets out of hand again and I hijack the blog... sorry... lol

dfizz said...

how did sayid get back to camp from the other side of the island? are we not supposed to wonder?

JGZ350 said...

Sun, Jin and Sayid all hiked back to the losties camp site from the other side of the island. However, we didn't see Sun or Jin, so maybe they were taking a nap after such a long hike. Also, it has been mentioned that some episodes have being shown out of order.

iceflame7777 said...

same way hurley managed to get back to beach camp.

also when eko said 'youre next' to locke and locke said eko said 'we're next', maye eko meant locke's next,not the whole group.

also the creators said we missed the monster near the end of series 2, and locke said he saw a bright light, maybe the discharge itself was the monster?

Administrator said...

dedjezter,

Thanks for the response. IMHO, it wasn't a hijacking of the blog at all. I enjoy diversions into other topics sometimes...That's what is so great about LOST, you can go broad and deep in your conversations about it!

No hard feelings on my end. Hope nobody upset you. Glad to be coexisting and engaging with you and everyone else in this forum.

Dennis said...

isibell said...Most 'normal' people are sheep...happy to munch grass and stand in the sun.

Sheeple :)


Sean said... remember at the end of last season.. a phone rang and a woman answered they said "i think we found it!" who and what was that? was that in the real world? is someone looking for them and did we learn more about it and i just missed it?

The girl was Desmond's girlfriend, and I think she is looking for him. I think we're going to have to wait until the second half of this season until we get anywhere with that part of the story.


JustaFan2006 said... The thing I don't get is why Ben doesn't just leave the island to get real medical assistance f he has a tumor and his condition is that serious.

That's a good question. Either he can't leave the island, or he truly believes Jack was sent divine intervention.


Tall Guy said...Are the visions of Dave, the Black Horse and The Whisperers, also aspects of Smokey or are they something else?

Hurley had visions of Dave before coming to the island, so him seeing Dave again is just in his head. The black horse both Kate and Sawyer saw, so it must be real or TSM (The Smoke Monster).

I think TSM could be responsible for the whispers, or it could be the speakers that are all around the island, or maybe the radios of the others.


Cam794 said... yea how do you post links?

<a href="URL GOES HERE">DESCRIPTION GOES HERE</a>

i.e.

<a href="http://thelostcommunity.blogspot.com/">The Lost Community</a>

The Lost Community

OK finally caught up :)

DiggityDirge said...

Howdy all,

Give me some feedback on my latest thought. The wholey smokey causing illusions forced me to go back a re-watch some past epi's.

If you re-watch Dave, Hurley and Ecko find themselves in a simialar field full of flowers right before walking into death. (in Hurley's case suicide)They look like poppies or something.

I am now extremly confident that smokey caused the Dave hallucination. I believe as many others have said and we saw with Ecko, that Smokey has the ability to expose guilt in people.

In Ecko's case, smokey exposed the one figure who could make him feel guilty and questioned his actions. When smokey did not get the answer he expected (it wanted penance) it killed Ecko.

In Hurley's case, Smokey did the same thing. Exposed someone from Hurley's past that could make him internalize his guilt and start acting crazy. But is Hurley's case, rather than kill him, smokey convinced him to take his own life.

Why? Was that Hurley's penance for the accident, or becasuse Hurley is not a violent/bad person, it couldn't kill him and had to convince Hurley to do it himself.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Something interesting that I thought of earlier is that the only times where two people have seen a manifestation together have been when the two people have shared a deep connection. Sayid saw Walt with Shannon right after he told her that he loved her. Sawyer and Kate saw the horse together right after Sawyer woke up from his gunshot trauma (during which, he told Jack that he loved Kate). Maybe once two people have connected like that, they can share each others visions?

tlcm said...

I have a bunch of things I want to bring up here for discussion but I want to watch this epi again first. I've been off chemo this week so I can stay active until next Friday at least.

I wanted to share this URL to The LOST Report http://hometown.aol.com/qcotms/myhomepage/index.html

I came across this guy on one of the ABC message boards last season and I really like his reviews. No spoilers just clean thoughts on the current episode. He usually posts sometime on Thursday afternoons. I check it every week now and I really like the work he does.

I only know him/her as Q

memphish said...

Here's my thing about the tumor -- so Ben finds out he has the tumor 2 days before the plane crash. Then he finds out there is a spinal surgeon on the island. When? Only after they get Michael? Because if he knew before that then why didn't they just grab Jack during The Hunting Party? Or go the more normal route of helping the survivors when they crash, and then having the serendipitous good luck to find out now there is a spinal surgeon who might want to help you.

This whole we kidnapped you and terrorized you and your friends and tempted you with a woman who looks like the ex-wife who dumped you for someone else to make you want to operate on me plan is just not working for me. I hope they show us next week why Ben's Others feel they need to be so secretive.

capcom said...

Dedjezter, I am very sorry if something happened to you that made you hate Christianity and/or religion so much, and to make you believe that just having religious beliefs makes someone a fanatic. I hope that you can somehow come to see the earth (and the entire universe) as a place full of amazing natural beauty and wonder every day, in the next 33 years of your life. XO

BTW, when you said that you believe in "do unto others", which "do unto others" do you mean? The one that finishes as "before they do unto you" or "what you would have them do unto you"? Be careful if it's the former, if Old Smokey is around! :-)

Interesting Smokey theories Melissa and Diggity. And by the way, to comment again on the "why don't they talk to each other" thread....Sayid didn't even say, "Guys!! You won't believe this!! We set a trap, the Others took the boat, and almost killed Sun, but we got one of them in defense!!!!". Geez-looeez.

capcom said...

Agreed Memphish!! Thanks for the link TLCM, glad you have a short reprieve from chemo. Take care.

Cam794 said...

Lost season 2 intro animated

this is really funny :)

Cam794 said...

AHHA!!!! sweet thanks alot Dennis!!!!

Twinkle said...

Look at me! Posting on a dead thread! LOL!

Repost from last thread:

DiggityDirge said... On the topic of religion, being a Catholic all my life one thing I know a little about is guilt....

We're addressing that topic right now on SotL. Feel free to join us!

Admin, DedJezter: Trickster would equal Jesus and whore would equal Mary? If they weren't telling the truth, it's a valid alternate explanation. Otherwise maybe they were crazy or their followers lied about them, but I think that would have been hard to pull off with all the eye-witnesses.

I haven't seen the episode yet but I have a theory regarding the Jack, Ben, and Juliet "let him die" thing. But it's due to a spoiler I read so I'll post it on the Message Board.

LifeObstacle said...

Cam, I miss your polar bears!

Twinkle said...

Sean: Check out Penny Widmore on Lostpedia.com for the answer to your question.

Cam794 said...

lifeobstacle- did you see the albino squerrl????

LifeObstacle said...

I did, still a polar bear fan. Something about the baby bear is too cute.

Which reminds me, I wonder if Juliet being a fertility doctor has anything to do with the animals that were in cages.

Cam794 said...

here it is! o look at the little Dharma squirrel awwwwwwwwwwww it sooo cute ^^

DeDJeZTeR said...

Malissa_Lossa said
"Maybe once two people have connected like that, they can share each others visions?"

So when exactly did Locke tell Eko he loved him or vice cersa.... lol
They shared dreams and visions in ?

Capcom, I do not hate christianity, I hate what is done in the name of it and how people miss use its teachings (same of the Quran) for their own agendas.

I say that Bush is a fanatic not because of his beliefs but this simple statement he made once.

Bush Jr. While still govener
"If a child of two years old is given an allowance of $0.50 cents a wekk and puts it in their piggy bank they are sinners. They should be giving that money to the church. Saveing that money for any reason is a sin of greed and therefore the child is evil."

Anyone who could say this is a fanatic and should not be allowed to make decisions for anyone but themselves.

capcom said...

Heh, been there done that too Twinkle....(the dead post thing).

So what's taking ya so long?????? Watch that episode Twinkle!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will check the message board for your theory. :-)

Cam794 said...

ok The Dharma Bears are back!

Zort said...

Is the reason the Others cremate their dead because otherwise old smokey will try and inhabit their bodies and haunt them ?

Just a quick thought.

capcom said...

That is definitely a strange a bizarre thing to say Ded, if the quote as you heard or read it was recorded accurately. In all fairness, you know how those things go, they get a life of their own in the hands of the opposition. But even Martin Luther said that money for family needs should come first, before giving your last bit for offerings/indulgences (in the 16thC).

Good thought Lifeobstacle, we are mostly on the train of thought that she does fertility work on humans alone. I'll bet she has to cover both arenas, humans and animals, in her island duties.

Cam794 said...

mkay i did a little magnifying on the bears and the numbers should look a little better now

Cam794 said...

zort- actually i was looking on lostpedia and they said that how they,hmmmmmm how do i saw this.........um did way with her body is of hinduisim ritual here ill give u the text..........O NVM LOSTPEDIA DOESNT SEEM TO BE WORKING FOR ME RIGHT NOW ILL POST IT LATER woops caps lock was on :P

Dennis said...

DiggityDirge said... TSM = Dave

We still don't have a direct link between the visions and TSM. I still think Dave was just all in his head. Why would TSM use an imaginary person when it could have used someone real from his life, like his friend Johnny or Lenny.

BTW, I think the flowers are Red Ginger

Here is the flower scene from "Dave"

Here is the flower scene from "The Cost Of Living"


They remind me of the flowers/berries from The Village that are the "bad color"

Cam794 said...

dennis yes i thought it was weird that all the flowers in that sceen in
the
Cost of Living were all like induvidually placed.

DeDJeZTeR said...

True Capcom, things like that can be mis-interpreted but I think it was a direct quote. I could be wrong, but I could be right as well. I know many christians, catholics, prodastants, buddhists, muslims, and jews. None of them are ever as Fanatical as Bush seems to be and sometimes is. I have no problems with people haveing faith, I just do not have it myself. There is something to be said about that mindset that allows you to see something in the universe that (IMHO) is not there. Knowing it is not a tangible thing and yet still believe whole heartedly that it exists. There could be a naked purplr guy stalking up behind you right now and you would never know if you couldn't see him, maybe others can. The real question is can that Naked purplr guy hurt you if you are the only one who can't see him. I don't think so. I do believe that if there is a gahd out there that he would forgive every one of everything. If he could forgive the men who killed him, saying Forgive them father for they know not what they do. Then surely even someone who justifies a greater act with an evil deed will be forgiven as well. If gahd can not forgive these people than he truly has made mistakes and if gahd is unfoulable where do we go from there?

LifeObstacle said...

zort, I think that's a smart comment. I just thought they didn't want to fill their island up with a cemetery.

dennis, nice pics of flowers. So what do they have to do with Smoky? He seems to favor them, or their location.

Sunloc said...

I think would should have a moment of silenct on the show for mr.eko we need to give him preps, and i think the eyepatch guy looks like Ron Perlman the scir looks the same. 5 dollars that bernard's next.

thinbluemime said...

....Lurking quietly, and really enjoying the discussions........

LifeObstacle said...

$10 in Dharma Bucks that Paulo's dead or close to it in the "fall season finale"

Twinkle said...

Bush is a good example (maybe better than most) that we all say stupid things sometimes, even when we know better. :-)

Capcom: Ah! The difficulties of watching Lost! What's going on? Have you seen my avatar? LOL! My husband and I watch after the kids go to bed on a night when we having nothing else pressing. This week it will be tonight or maybe this weekend. I don't care how much I learn about the episode beforehand, I still enjoy watching it. He won't even watch the preview at the end of the show.

isibell said...

Darkangel - totally off topic...does your wife tend to see a proliferation of crows or ravens at any regular or irregular interval? Just curious...you and or she don’t have to answer if you don't want.

Dennis - Sheepel go 'Bahhhh B****es' ;)

Dedjezter - I agree...Religious zealots bad. They are the kind of people that want to burn people like me at the stake. But lucky us zealots don't run the religion entirely, even if it feels like it these days. It just makes it so hard to remember that just cause they are Christian doesn't mean they hate you.

isibell said...

Sunloc - NO. Speak not this heresy! My Bernard shall run...run like the wind. He shall acknowledge the target currently tattooed on his ass, grab his beautiful wife by the hand, and run to the south and east. He shall outlive the utterly useless Paulo. This I have decreed.

;)

Twinkle said...

DedJezter: I appreciate your comments. Really, really would love to discuss this more on SotL. You present an important question.

Capcom: Oh yeah, my theory is under the General Spoilers thread.

Codysmom said...

Hello, TLC!

Zort, I like your idea about the funeral..

Dennis, thanks for the pics of the flower scenes. Somebody yesterday (I think) said it looked like a graveyard and I think so, too. Does anybody remember the use of the color red in "Sixth Sense"?

Cam, yea, Dharma bears!!

(whispers) hello, tbm ..

Dennis, would it be a spoiler to show who the actor is that is playing Mr. Patchy?

tlcm said...

I agree Paulo is next to go..
he's a red shirt for sure maybe nikki too shortly hiatus..

I'm off to watch the cost of living for the second time. I doubt I'll be back on here until monday; I got to rest up on my no-chemo weeks....

great discussion go on here and I enjoy reading and watching the ideas develop, blossom and bloom

keep it up!!!

Twinkle said...

tlcm: Hey, are you a guy or a gal? Just so I can say, "You go, ____!" ;-)

LifeObstacle said...

For everyone else who's immature like me, my last post was #69.

If Nikki and Paulo are around for any reason besides a gruesome death scene, I will be highly dissappointed.

tlcm said...

one more thing Dark Angel..
I have the ability to know what sex the baby will be that totally frightens my family because I have NEVER been wrong and usually I know the eye color and hair color too. don't ask me how. I have to spend a little bit of time with the mommy and then in a few days or maybe a week, I just know.

weird isn't it?

LifeObstacle said...

tlcm, did you know about baby Aaron? Cuz that would be beyond freaky. Also, stay away from dark angel's wife.

tlcm said...

twinkl

I'm a gal through and through

I'm really leaving know

bye-bye

Melissa_Lossa said...

zort - great thought about the body! I like it. :)

ded - are you telling me that you've never picked up on that tender love between Locke and Eko? Ha, ha!

Actually, I think there is a difference on the island between visions and manifestations. Locke and Eko shared images in dreams, but I do not believe that they saw the same waking manifestation of Yemi. In Locke's vision quest, Boone was a vision, not a manifestation of the smoke monster. I believe they are two very separate phenomena.

Dave is where things get shaky - was he a vision or a manifestation? If he was a manifestation, was the monster able to manifest him without a body because he existed in Hurley's mind for so long?

Twinkle said...

Browsing quickly through the comment makes for good theory development. Building on what others have said - I also thought since last season that Dave was a manifestation of Smokey. Smokey seems to be able to read minds, project into people's minds, and even express itself through people (like Eko in the Locke episode). It seems to have a conciousness or a very complex AI. Why does it want a confession from Eko? It is not God. Is it trying to play God? Let's say we have a renegade, complex AI program, supernatural being, the island's consciousness, or something (I favor the AI explanation) that views itself as in charge of good and evil. It has set itself up as God for the island and rules it like a petty tyrant.

So what if Smokey doesn't just torment the Losties but the Others too? That would play into Ben's comment last year that not even God could see the island. The Others could be at Smokey's mercy and machinations just like the Losties. Would make anyone go a little crazy!

Melissa_Lossa said...

Could the flowers in the field, which someone said looked like poppies, be another Wizard of Oz reference? "Poppies... poppies will make them sleep...."

Twinkle said...

Mellissa: Yeah, my theory revolves around the manifestations, the smoke monster, and the visions all being result of the same entity.

Twinkle said...

Oooh, that's another thought I had too, Mellissa! That maybe the flowers somehow make the individual more receptive, like Locke's gunk he ate in the sweat tent.

isibell said...

Melissa - those arn't poppies. They are to tall.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Hi, twinkle! Long time no see. :)

I think the real difference between the monster and whatever the second force is, is that the monster can draw images out of your mind, while the second force puts images in your mind. The second force would be responsible for Locke's vision quest, Eko's dream of Ana Lucia, Locke's "Theresa falls up the stairs" dream, etc. while the monster would be responsible for Yemi in this past episode, Jack's father, the horse, etc. I mentioned this yesterday, but I believe that Walt found a way to make the monster manifest what he wanted it to - namely himself. However, since he was not in complete control, his manifestation was imperfect, causing him to appear wet and to speak backwards.

Tall Guy said...

Dark Angel.

I've risen to your challenge to draw a Lost character. You'll have to go to my blog to see my version of John Locke, as I don't know how to do direct links here. I'm very pleased with it. Other pics will follow.

Melissa_Lossa said...

hmmmm..... I stand corrected, isibell...

I believe that the visions come from "the island." All of the visions that I can remember have served to advance the losties in one way or another - usually to lead them toward the Pearl station. I forget - did Locke get anything useful when he visited there the first time, or did he just sacrifice Boone? Perhaps the island has been trying to drive them to the Pearl all along - Locke just got it wrong the first time, and went for the plane instead.

Twinkle said...

tlcm: Hope you Ctrl + F for yourself when you get back. You go, girl! Strength and Peace.

I also have this weird thing with pregnant women. With my good friends who were all pregnant with me (4 of us total), I had a hunch about the children's genders that turned out to be correct. More interesting, women near their due date seem to go into labor after spending time with me. That's happened to about 3 or 4 women. May be silly but I take it as a sign to pray for pregnant women and their labor.

Mellissa: I mostly hang out at SotL because I never get to watch the episode when the good discussion over here is going on.

LifeObstacle said...

Visions from the island = good

Visions from Smoky = bad? Or do they serve the island's purpose too?

Just saying that, although Smoky seems destructive to us, it could still be the same entity. Eko was ready to go.

Melissa_Lossa said...

ah, I haven't been to SotL since the season started

I don't have a lot of time to chat since work has been so busy (although I'm doing a pretty good job today!) so I've only had time to come here. Maybe during the break...

Has SotL evolved since the season started? I felt a little out of place when I checked it out before... conversation was a little Christian heavy for me.

Melissa_Lossa said...

life - I don't know if either is all good or all bad. We know that death has resulted from each (Boone and Eko). The visions just seem to convey a specific message - Locke had to save Eko before he could do anything else, Eko had to help Locke find the question mark, etc. The monster seems to be less about communication, and more about judgement.

isibell said...

No offence Melissa. :) They are the right color. But those look more like Ginger.

Twinkle - just stay away from me on May day. ;)

Melissa_Lossa said...

oh, none taken - to be honest, I wouldn't know a poppy from a hole in the wall. :) I think someone mentioned it earlier, and I was distracted for so long, I just remembered it.

Twinkle said...

Mellissa: It gets a little Christian heavy sometimes because we need more people who don't have some form of Christian belief or background to post on it. This week DA has done a great job of describing his belief system. Hope to see you over there sometime! :-)

Twinkle said...

isibell: Are you due on May day?

Melissa_Lossa said...

I'll make an effort to come by, then. I consider myself a very spiritual person, and I enjoy conversation with everyone here. :)

Everyone's so sweet here, I know we can disagree without arguing!

Maybe when things die down here between halves of the season, I can find more time.

isibell said...

Twinkle - no. But May day is a fertility holiday where I hang out...and you beeing connected to fertility as it would appear you are. I don't need a kid right now. I'm to much of a kid myself. :)

Melissa_Lossa said...

isibell - do you mind me asking what religion/practice you follow? Just curious...

isibell said...

Mel - I'm Pagan. It's a mish mash of beliefs I've culled from Wicca, Native American beliefs (though to be fair I've never had any formal training in the subject.), 6 years at the Renaissance Fair, and my traditional Methodist upbringing. There's a bunch of people who claim I'm evil because of it. But I like it so..... ;)

isibell said...

Wait...let me rephrase that. My version of Pagan is a mish mash.......you get the picture. Pagan is one of those religions where it's hard to nail down a definition. To many variations.

Twinkle said...

DA: I just caught your post where you suggested that Smokey is a natural phenomenon that DI tried to tame or control. Put me in mind of the Borg. We could have a cyberorganism on our hands. Hadn't thought of that!

isibell said...

mmmmmmmmm....borg

Twinkle said...

Mellissa: Oh, arguments would be fun too! I love a good verbal row. How about we can argue while still respecting each other? Or I can try to hold my tongue more. *sheepish grin* ;-D

isibell: Thankfully I have not been connected to anyone conceiving. ...Unless you count my best friends and I all getting pregnant and having babies within 3 months of each other without telling the others we were trying to get pregnant happening twice! We had many of our circle freaked out by that. But it could also be because we were all in the same life stage.

Melissa_Lossa said...

isibell - that's actually close to what I consider myself to be as well, although I don't practice anything. I like to take the good parts from every religion and make them my own. :) I do have a strong belief in reincarnation and past lives.


twinkle - I try to play nice with the other kids. :) One of the best conversations I had over the summer on TLEC was with Admin - we got into a big discussion about whether we would kill people if we knew it would save the world. Good stuff. I actually found it really interesting how our backgrounds came into play in that conversation.

And just for you sci fi ladies - resistance is futile! Prepare to be assimilated!

Twinkle said...

Melissa said: resistance is futile! Prepare to be assimilated!

Now, doesn't that sound a little like what the smoke monster/island is trying to do?

isibell said...

Both you chicks rock. ;)

Melissa_Lossa said...

ha, ha, exactly!

BTW - if you're ever in Vegas, check out the Star Trek Experience rides. The Romulan one is really fun, and the Borg one is really scary... might want to leave the little ones at home for that one, twinkle.

isibell, I concur - you ladies rock :)

Dennis said...

ular98 said... I read Cams794 blog, was I surprised!
Melissa_Lossa said... For some reason I thought you were the same age as Frogurt

Don't be fooled by the Blogger profile. See the MySpace profile instead. :)


Codysmom said...Would it be a spoiler to show who the actor is that is playing Mr. Patchy?

I don't think revealing who he is would be spoiler.


Melissa_Lossa said... Dave is where things get shaky - was he a vision or a manifestation? If he was a manifestation, was the monster able to manifest him without a body because he existed in Hurley's mind for so long?

Dave was only ever seen by Hurley, which makes me think it was a vision, or because Hurley is bonkers.


Twinkle said...That would play into Ben's comment last year that not even God could see the island.

That's interesting about Ben mentioning God. Here the quote from "Dave":

LOCKE: Did you get caught on purpose? You and your people have been here for God knows how long, and you got caught in a net...
BEN: God doesn't know.
LOCKE: Excuse me?
BEN: God doesn't know how long we've been here, John. He can't see this island any better than the rest of the world can.


But in this episode, Ben thinks that God sent Jack to save him? I though he couldn't see the island?

BEN: Do you believe in God, Jack?
JACK: Do You?
BEN: Two days after I found out I had a fatal tumor on my spine, a spinal surgeon fell out of the sky.
BEN: And if that's not proof of God, I don't know what is.

Twinkle said...

Melissa: The Star Trek Experience is the main reason I want to go to Vegas. Label me "Total Geek."

Melissa_Lossa said...

twinkle - my husband and I went to the Star Trek Experience on our honeymoon - I think we'll be sharing the total geek title! The Borg one really is scary - the Borg are walking all around you, and you have really close to them - then you get assimilated. Yikes!

dennis - aha, so cam tricked us! I'm going to have to give that kid a piece of my mind next time I see him! ;)

oh, and thank you so much for bringing back my favorite word - bonkers! I agree, Dave must have been a vision, the same way he was a vision when Hurley saw him in the hospital.

Twinkle said...

Dennis: Maybe Ben's view of God is in the midst of a shift? Or else he wasn't referring to the same god both times? I bet this has been discussed thoroughly before but how can Ben have a tumor while the Losties (Rose in particular) has been healed? Is the conciousness/entity in charge of the island in charge of who gets healed and who doesn't too? Or if the Others regularly take the vaccine while the Losties don't, did whatever the vaccine protects against do the healing? Maybe the vaccine is to prevent one from coming under the influence of the island entity? Then the Others wouldn't be having conversations with the island or visions while the Losties would. It might also mean that the entity might favor the Losties over the Others.

To me, it seems the Others behavior is a lot more explainable (though not justifiable) if they are in constant guerilla warfare with the thing on the island that messes with people's minds. It would also explain their fear and treatment of the Losties who aren't vaccinated against the island's influence. Now I'm getting really far flung, maybe they took three prisoners to confuse the island entity about which one they really needed so it couldn't so easily mess up their plans? How did the electromagnetic change with the destruction of the Swan hatch affect the entity? Is it stronger?

capcom said...

Ded, those are very thoughtful questions, I agree.

Twinkle, ah yes, the munchkins. :-)

Dennis, you are the "Image Link King" this season! Thanks! Sheeple, heh-heh, bahhh raaammm ewwwwwwwe! :-D

Yes, Codysmom, the red color!!!! Gotta keep an eye on that or any other tell-tale prop hints. Can't think of any so far, but......

Lifeobstacle, you kill me! :-D I too say "Hell no! Paolo and Nikki have to go!" Meh, I'll probably change my mind after TPTB show us their tearjerking flashbacks. Although I don't recall being this disappointed or ticked off about any new characters in the show before them.

Isibell, you are not evil. Technically, we all.......well, let's leave that for the SotL blog, come on over!!

I tell you, everyone is smoking this week with the ideas!!! Maybe that's how we can tell what a good ep is, if we grumble and stop talking, it's no good. If we grumble and talk like crazy, it was great.

I just had a thought about Old Smokey....what if it is some kind of DI management spying device that the DI used to check up on employees to make sure that they were working and not goofing off????? Really, I'm not kidding. How else could you keep an eye on your charges, when they are a million miles from civilization??? The DI workers are well aware of all the camera action going on around them, and they would know where and when to goof off to get away with it. Enter, the Smokey Patrol! It would have to have all the traits that we have been discussing today, spying, reading minds, judging, and somehow it got out of control and started killing "bad" employees instead of just reporting them to the DI management!! Now what it is made of, I still have no clue. OK, stop laughing. :-p

Twinkle said...

Just to have fun twisting ideas, what if the original Dave in the mental institution was a manifestation of the entity? The numbers are everywhere. Why can't it be too, especially in a place with so many ties to it (the guy Hurley got the numbers from, Libby, and IMHO run by the Hanso Foundation)?

Melissa_Lossa said...

oh, twinkle - you're too much!

capcom - I'm just glad we don't have the smoke monster here at my office, to see me chatting away all day - I'd be toast!

LifeObstacle said...

Capcom, Nikki and Paulo seem so out of place. I am not ready for their flashbacks. Something about them just doesn't fit in. Maybe they don't look like the island has had an effect on them yet.

Twinkle said...

IMHO, Nikki and Paolo give something people who are new to Lost or casual about Lost to watch. They need more viewers so let's play the sexy couple card.

Twinkle said...

If I keep spouting all these opinions they're going to stop being humble quick. ;-) Time to make dinner!

LifeObstacle said...

They're only sexy if they stop talking and start doing something you can't show on network TV.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Okay, everyone - it's finally time for me to get out of work. I'll see everyone Monday!

capcom said...

Right Dennis and y'all, either Ben had no faith in God before he found out that Jack the surgeon was on the island (when he was in the Swan, or whenever), OR, he did really believe all the time, but when he was in the Swan, he was just having a "Craphole Island" moment (we all have those). :-) OR, he was just lying *again* in the Swan trying to give the Losties no hope (like his speech to Sawyer last weeke), and now he's scared stiff of dying and just wants to tell the truth and live.

Lord help me, but after seeing this week's ep, and watching Juliet and Ben......I can't say it......I'm starting to feel like giving Ben some slack. Nooooooooooooooo, I didn't say it!!! But I did. Wow. I actually like Ben more than Juliet now, at this very moment in time, before I change my mind after the next ep. I don't like Juliet's phoney-baloney smile either. She's all teehee-ing up to Jack with her little crosslegged sitting on the table with her back to Ben. :-p

Yes, Twinkle and Life, ditto about P & N.

LifeObstacle said...

Twinkle, my husband's a pretty casual watcher, and he doesn't get them either. Also, he's really disappointed about Mr. Eko's passing.

Twinkle said...

lifeobstacle: That's what was cut out of an episode recently!

capcom said...

And before I too sign off, I think that TPTB should make Jack tell Juliet that she has to fix her own little problem without him (if it's not all a con, that is). He has vowed to help people as a doctor, and we all know how anal he is about that. And she will just have to work out her own power trip with Ben, irrespective of who is right or wrong.

Night all, sleep well and wake up refreshed!

Twinkle said...

capcom: I've grown fond of Ben too! He seems very human to me and somewhat child-ish.

LifeObstacle said...

Capcom, what if she convinces Jack that Ben is out to kill people? That's the only way he would even consider doing it as far as I can tell. He couldn't even stand the idea of "Henry" being tortured by Sayid so it would have to be pretty extreme.

That might have something to do with why Sawyer and Kate are there. If Jack thinks Ben is or has hurt them, Jack might change his mind (after tons of mental anguish).

Midnightstrider said...

Twinkle - I'e never been a Ben fan. I think he is more coniveing rather than childish...He also seems like somewhat of a totalitarian...

Twinkle said...

Don't know. In some ways Ben reminds me of an 8 year old in a bigger body. Only thing is we haven't seen him throw a full-scale temper tantrum yet. We saw a little one when he tried to shut Juliet into the hatch as it was flooding. IMO, Ben isn't acting out an elaborate plan. They have some idea of what they'd like to do and the rest is Ben's pettiness and impulsivity. Like I said, he's very human.

Anonymous said...

I think we all know Jack would not kill Ben. It's against the Hippocratic oath, and while he may be the Man of Science, as a doctor he has deep faith in that. I believe Juliet is testing him. If she had support already, it would have been easy to effect a regime change at any previous time without having to involve Jack, an unknown third party who could go either way. It is a lie, a test to challenge his current values and character, as part of their plan. This is not to say that Jack might not genuinely screw up the operation accidentally, or that it is too difficult. Perhaps that will happen and he will be suspected of doing it deliberately anyway. But I don't believe there is anything the Others could do to him that would cause him to abandon his oath. You do realise it would make him more than a murderer. There are few things as despicable as a doctor who chooses to kill a patient depending upon him for survival. Even if I am wrong, and Juliet really is staging a coup, I believe in that - Jack won't kill Ben deliberately.

I think the smoke monster is not a genuine vector on the island. I think its big secret is that someone or something else is responsible for it, something bigger and more menacing than the monster itself. It might be an individual of some sort, or a facility. Also, when it, for the first time, spoke as what it is (not posing as a vision), to Eko - "You speak to me like I am your brother" - it didn't say we or us, it said me. A sense of self. That definitely doesn't imply a gestalt entity or a force, it implies an individual and a personality - which I think is what Eko saw in those final moments when he demanded to know who it was. Not what - who. What is the universal aspect of individuals? They are flawed.

I can't wait for the next episode. I'm really going to fret during this giant gap. You know one of the things I really like about Lost is the imagery. There is never an episode goes by but some iconic image doesn't occur, whether it's Ben and Sawyer on a cliff overlooking the island across the channel, or Desmond skipping stones while gazing immutably into the sunset, or the smoke monster billowing huge over Eko in the jungle. It's always so exotic and hyper-real, like nothing else on television, and being a viewer understanding the significance of what you're seeing lends it weight and awe. What will we do while we wait for February?

Twinkle said...

redhex: Thanks for your insights. I have yet to see the ep. (I know. Silly me.) By "entity" I was implying something with a personality and sense of self. I just don't know what to call it. Personally, I think all the "supernatural" style occurences (Smokey, visions, manifestations, the cause of Desmond's clairvoyance, etc...) on the island are due to the same cause. Some have posited the the island itself is conscious.

You also scared me. Wait until February!? I looked it up. Whew! We do have one more episode. So I don't have to freak out until next week. :-)

thinbluemime said...

What will we do while we wait for February?

I am considering making some LOST fan videos. I have ideas for two so far, one romantic, and one humourous.
Or I might go back and review audio from all of season two, in reverse audio.
There will be official lost mobile videos released, so that will help the withdrawl some.

But a 12 week hiatus, is like waiting for a whole new season.
Hey!
Didnt we just do that six weeks ago?!?!?

JustaFan2006 said...

OK. So if Ben can't leave the island to get real medical treatment for his tumor, how is he supposed to leave the island to bring Jack home as he promised?

I think the whole tumor story is a scam - it's part of their con or psychological testing or brainwashing or whatever it is they are trying to do with Jack. I think they're trying to push him to see how far to the dark side he will go. I just don't understand why.

Why would they infiltrate the plane crash and kidnap people instead of trying to help the survivors? None of their behavior makes any sense to me. What is their ultimate plan?

JustaFan2006 said...

Almost forgot. A question came up in the previous thread about where the cigarette smoker in the pearl went that Locke didn't see him. Maybe he was in the bathroom?

maven said...

Is blogger buggy today?

maven said...

Is it really true that the last post was yesterday over 12 hours ago? :(

Dark Angel said...

Hi Guys,

Just back from recording my audio for the podcast and thought I would just drop by. I was inspired by Cam's changing avatars so I thought I'd change mine.

Isibell no, no crows or ravens, just the sparrows and starlings in the garden but I know where your comming from. good to see another Pagan on here, my path seesm to be quite similar to your own, basically shamanistic wicca Pagan is one of those religions where it's hard to nail down a definition. To many variations. Years ago I came up with a difinition, that pagans were any group of people where the number of definitions of paganism was greater than the number of people in the group! (sorry in pagan joke there). You should look into the Stories of the Lost Isibell were having some pretty good conversations over there and no one will call you evil!

Twinkle and TLCM those are some pretty cool talents you have between you, sounds like you are natural midwives!

oh and Tall Guy your Lost artwork rocks, I am very envious of your talent.

With regards to the hiatus, didn't David (Passafist not Admin) say that they were thinking of doing a video podcast, now that sounds a blast!

Anyway, have to go, catch you guys later ....

Dark Angel said...

Hi Maven

Yeah Blogger seems to be real buggy, keeps wiping my posts,

anyway

really must go :)

capcom said...

Yes, I think we Losties broke the blog again.

I agree Redhex, that (unless TPTB throw us a loop in Jack's personality) something very serious will have to be offered or threatened to make Jack not save any person that he has taken responsibility for under his care. But what are the odds of Ben not coming through the operation anyway, considering their rusty rickety old setup, sheesh.

Well, I know what I will do during the "break", I just finally purchased the S1 and S2 DVDs, so I will be rehashing old times with the Lostaways. I really don't understand what the big deal is about having no reruns, how do they think that people catch up on missed eps and newcomers too?! :-p Yes, didn't we just do this indeed, TBM.

I agree about how strong the images in Lost are, for sure! That may be one of the reasons (I'd like to think) why we don't always get too much dialogue, which is, to keep the show in a more abstract image-heavy experience. TLE was certainly like that, all those creepy websites, photos, graphics, etc. (OK, RBs videos were nothing to brag about) :-) And if you go through that site with the caps of the entire eps, some of the imagery in the "money-shots" are so strong and desktop-wallpaper-worthy!

Re: the cig smoke; if I had walked into that station after someone had put out a cig, I would be screaming about the skanky smoke smell! :-) How is it (if TPTB insist that there was a lingering smoke there--they did didn't they?) that Eko and Locke did not smell it???? That's nutty. Suspension of disbelief or suspension of olfactory senses?! :-| And ooh yeah, perhaps the smoker did ditch into the bathroom when L and E went into the Pearl, that stupid scene with Paolo had to have some significance other than to show even more of his uselessness. :-)

Cam794 said...

hey all! lol Dark Angel i just cant decide which one is best! :)

Anonymous said...

The blog's been broken all day, I tried to post throughout it. Now that it's working again, I can say it's bedtime, and I'll contribute to the podcast post.

capcom said...

Go ahead and change them everyday if you want to Cam, it will give us a slide show!

I wish I knew how to make an avatar, someday I'll figure it out. Someone (probably Dennis) explained it here or on the last thread posted, I'll have to look for it and give it a try.

Pwyll said...

At least our comps doesn't implode 'cause of it =P

Twinkle said...

DA: It'd be hard to be a midwife when you can't stand the sight of blood! :-D Think of me more as a support person. I gotta get mine out of the baby stage and then maybe I'll have the energy to take care of others' babies. There's a church that has official "baby holders" who help parents out by holding their babies during worship. Wow! I'd love to do that!

maven said...

Morning! Wow, thread is kinda dead, huh?

Just for fun: 78 Across in today's (Sunday) LA Times Crossword: Persephone's Mother! (Hahaha: Wouldn't WE all like to know! LOL)

capcom said...

Maven, save that crossword puzzzle and send it to TPTB. :-D

Wow, babyholder, I would love that job too! What a great idea.

Hi All!

Twinkle said...

See you'd have to be official for the babyholder thing to work. Otherwise, what are young parents with their first newborn going to think if you, stranger, come up and ask to hold their baby for the service?!

I'd like to repost a couple theories from above that I'd really like to discuss more. I haven't seen the ep yet. (I know. Silly me) Please let me know if the ep answered any of these questions. Plus what's your take on these ideas?

How can Ben have a tumor while the Losties (Rose in particular) have been healed? If the "entity" is behind the visions and healings and the vaccine protects against it, then that would explain Ben's tumor and mean that the Others don't have a psychic connection to island like Locke and Eko. If the "entity" and the Others are in a constant guerrilla war, it would also explain the Others' enmity with those not vaccinated and why they were determined to vaccinate the unborn child before it became infected by the "entity." Anyone under the influence of the island "entity" would as good as dead to them.

Also, could we be attributing too much forethought and planning to the Others? We did that with Mittlework, reading a lot more into what he was doing than just what we were presented with. Maybe the Others don't have a grand master plan or an organized theology of God, the island, and everything. Maybe they have a general idea and are winging the rest? Maybe Ben and Juliet are conning the Losties or maybe we're seeing adults being petty and spiteful, having lived in close quarters together for way too long. For instance, I think Ben lied to Locke about pushing the button just to cause trouble (because of his treatment by the Losties) and not because he had thought through what the consequences would be.

So I may not buy into these theories 100% but what do the rest of you think?

capcom said...

I would not ever think of walking up to a strange couple and asking to take their baby!!!!!!!!! Good heavens!

Passafist said...

The Podcast is up and running send me an e-mail at passafistwastaken@gmail.com if you want a sneak peak.

maven said...

Twinkle: Good thoughts (as usual). I don't know why Ben has a tumor that hasn't miraculously healed itself. It hasn't behaved like Rose's cancer and Locke's paralysis. (Plus the fact that no Losties have gotten really sick since their crash...not even a cold? LOL) Maybe the Others have been on the island for a longer time, and protection against disease wears off? Maybe whatever the entity is doesn't see the Others like they do the Losties (innocents crashed on the island that have no control of their circumstances)?

I love the discussion and speculation and even the crazy theories when we talk about Lost (and when we had TLE). But, I agree, sometimes you just have to go with the flow and accept what is presented to you and not tear it apart. Sometimes what you see is what you see. We might attributing too much agenda for Ben and Juliet...it just seems to be that Juliet is orchestrating a coup against Ben and wants Jack to help her side. They might not have long term plans and goals. They may be just taking it one day at a time.

Totengraber said...

Hey Y'all,

Just need to restate my theory 'bout Paolo & Nikki. They aren't red shirts, because the made it through 1 episode. They are others of the other kind. The others we don't know about yet, not the "hostile" others. Paolo & Nikki were not seen before the Swan blowed up real good. They were prisoners of the Swan Station's Phantom Zone of Magnetic Radiation Containment. Possibly remnants of Dharma's Remote Viewing project, or survivors of the Islands ancient advanced civilization. Paolo & Nikki have the ability to influence the minds of the survivors, they were causing Eko's Hallucinations not Smokey. Smokey's just a tool, no more that a security device. The eyes , ears and muscle of the other others. This is very clear, Smokey hasn't ever manifest itself as any thing but black smoke. As far as the black horse, There may be horses on the island, there's bears and boars. And Jacks dad was a hallucination, Jack wasn't sleeping, sleep depravation causes hallucinations.

Eko's dead because Paolo & Nikki saw him as the greatest threat to their survival and or discovery by the survivors. Lock should have never let them go with him to the Pearl Station.

Dig Y'all Later

Twinkle said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Totengraber said...

Paolo & Nikki are evil, just listen to them talk. They are way outa place they don't fit in and have no flashbacks just like all the other's.

I'll pretend I didn't hear that spoiler from TPTB you just said. Nothing has been reveiled yet. If It's all that simple I'm wasting my time watching this series.

I was wishing for zombies and all I get is Paolo & Nikki!

tjmonkey37 said...

Someone said we might be giving Smokey too much credit. What if it is as simple as its purpose is to kill/scare away any "infected" folks that stray outside there quarantined area.

It would start with subtle freighting techniques like the strange whispers or its growls and loud noises. Then mind games to try and control there movements And if all else fails it kills them as a last resort in keeping this dangerous outbreak under control.

This may be why ecko was spared the 1st time, something as simple as he was not sick. But later after time in jungle, contact with a wild bear, and open wounds he contracted the "sickness" and then refused to back down and listen to Smokey un conditionally. This left him a danger Smokey could not control and that needed to be eliminated.
Also that 1st time Smokey and Ecko went head to head it could have actually been hunting for Charlie who I believe had the "sickness" up until he vaccinated himself.

If being sick is mostly mental it would explain why Smokey would have and need to be able to read folks mind. But again that’s all assuming the sickness is real and a mental sickness no one really knows. But I'll leave it up to you all to debunk or improve on this theory… have fun

Twinkle said...

Sorry, totengraber. So stuff from the official news releases and podcasts is considered spoilers? I wasn't thinking. I deleted my post. I think it's likely that TPTB were going to do flashbacks for Paolo and Nikki this season.


Here's the rest of it that's safe.
----

Ah, capcom, but there once was a day when we could offer to hold someone's baby for them and it wouldn't be an inappropriate thing to do...*sigh*

Thanks, Maven. Time will tell. I think Juliet may be taking the opportunity to get rid of an annoyance in her life. If Jack doesn't do it then she make take matters into her own hands later. Some theories seem to make the treatment of the Losties, kidnapping the kids, Ben's capture, Walt's testing, now Jack, Kate, and Sawyer's kidnapping as some sort of totally cohesive whole, as if the Others knew from the moment of the crash or getting the Losties names, that they were going to do those things and why. It's clear the Others do have some sort of plan. I just don't think it's as fleshed out as we like to theorize. Maybe everything happens for a reason, but every person doesn't always have a purposeful reason for every action?

Twinkle said...

Hey, tj! I have an old blog from TLEC days at lostyourhumor.blogspot.com that I'm going to start adding to again. It's really dumb LOST jokes. Anybody can contribute one on here or on the LYH blog. Here's my first one of the new season.

What did Eko say to the Smoke Monster?
(Yemi get this straight. You're not my brother?)

Told you they were bad! :-D

HansoLow said...

Hey everyone! I've been MIA for a while, but I thought I'd stop back in to share a new video that I made. It's an alternate version of the Pearl Hatch scene from "The Cost of Living" from last week. Enjoy!:

"Mystery Man in Flame Hatch"

maven said...

Hi, hansolow! Great fun watching your mystery man!

FYSB said...

Hey there LoCo! Happy Last Week of Lost before the Long Desert of MidSeason Replacement.

In the spirit of changing avatars, I've made mine a tribute to Sawyer's funniest nickname so far "Chinatown".

Been perusing the comments waiting for the new Treehouse of Horror and wanted to add a few thoughts.

1. Codysmom wondered earlier about Desmond's lack of precog. I believe he did demonstrate it. He knew a storm was coming and that lightning would strike near Claire. He tried to get her to move with the lame excuse that he needed to fix her roof. When she wouldn't go, he built a lightning rod to draw the strike away from her and the turniphead.

2. I loved the To Kill a Mockingbird reference. That is one of the greatest books ever. I think that Juliet purposely put that theme in Jack's head before she started the whole "let's kill Ben" video. My questions are: Does she want Jack to see himself as Atticus Finch (arguably one of the most honorable characters in literature)? And the follow up question: Will Jack see Ben as the rabid dog (which Atticus killed for the greater good) or as Tom (the wrongly accused man that Atticus tried to save)? What do you guys think?

And while this has no bearing whatsoever on Lost, Tom from To Kill a Mockingbird had a bad arm, IIRC.

3. And finally, congrats Dennis on your promotion! I'm glad to see that the world of LoCo recognizes the value of a man who's always willing to lend a helping hand, share his insights and pictures of his goat and has an unparalled mastery of italics and bold.

One other thing, wouldn't it have been funny to see a dharma logo on McPatchy's eye patch?

Totengraber said...

Hey FYSB,

I fooled around and missed The Tree House of Horror : ( I'm Scaning the newsgroups to find a copy.

I'm with you, To Kill a Mockingbird definetly has some meaning. these writers don't use literary referances lighly.

Patchy's Patch says Widmore Pharmaceuticals : )

Hey Twinkel,

I love them spoilers as much a the next man, but them rules is the rules. : ) Anyway I like being in the dark!


Dig Y'all Later

Dennis said...

FYSB!!

Thanks! Glad to see you back! I hope the stricter spoiler rules will mean we will be seeing more of you :)

One other thing, wouldn't it have been funny to see a dharma logo on McPatchy's eye patch?

There WAS a Dharma logo on his shirt... http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=207


HansoLow said... Hey everyone! I've been MIA for a while, but I thought I'd stop back in to share a new video that I made. It's an alternate version of the Pearl Hatch scene from "The Cost of Living" from last week. Enjoy!

Hey! Long time no see. Is that you in the video? LOL.

maven said...

Hey, FYSB! Long time no see...welcome back to the spoiler-free zone. LOL You're probably not on now, but I wanted to say hi!

Amused2bHere said...

FSYB! welcome back, we promise to behave!

Hansolow, great to see you again too. Thanks for the chuckle.

two more days to LOST!!!!!!

Dark Angel said...

Yeah FYSB is back!

And welcome back to Hansolow too

Twinkle Someone came up with a theory to explain Ben's tumour (sorry I can't remember who) but If you remember when Rose went to Isaac the Healer he said that Ulura was the wrong place for Rose and that not everywhere could heal everyone, maybe that is the case for Ben , the Island is just the wrong place for him. I can also think of at least three examples of illness on the island (ignoring gunshot wounds, bear bites, fist fights and poisoning), there was Shannon's Asthma, Sullivan got hives and Aaron got ill.

I also agree that quite often we have a tendency to read too much into things and overlook the obvious answer, whilst I am sure TPTB play this up and like to have fun to us they have to ensure that the 98% of viewers who are not completely Lost obsessed like us get what's going on.

BarbaraJay said...

Hello! I'm finally caught up. I just want to put in my vote for the theory that Ben's tumor is a scam along with Juliet's enlistment of Jack to overthrow the Bendom. It's a long con.

Let's see if I'm wrong again!

Berimon said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Homer Thompson said...

I'm about ready to quit on this show. NOTHING happened in the fall season finale. NOTHING. There was some good stuff in the LAST 10 MINUTES of the episode, but the previous 50 were basically worthless (don't get me started on the cage sex session).

Fall Finale?

Gee, it was nice to see Charlie & Hurley in the fall finale, wasn't it?

I found myself wishing that the guy would have just capped Sawyer. At least that would have been SOMETHING.