Tonight, Sayid must make a difficult decision, while Claire has a warning for the temple inhabitants.
More interesting guest stars on the way, and Carlton Cuse asks, "What happens when the sun goes down? That is the question." (thanks for the Twitter update again, maven!)
The title suggests a Sun-centric episode - dare we hope for a Sun/Jin reunion?
Tuesday, March 02, 2010
Sundown - Season 6, Episode 5
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Good-night memphish and TAV.. hopefully we won't all have nightmares.
I agree, Amy Lynn.. I wanted Kate to say that to Claire, too.
Amy Lynn;
Yeah ,right? I was thinking the same thing.
zzzzzzzzz
Night memphish and TAV.
Lennon didn't really give Kate much of chance to say anything to crazy Claire.
I see what you're saying Blacky. So far we have it mentioned that MIB is looking for recruits, and Jacob is looking for candidates. What's the diff, you got me.
Right Amy. I was thinking that question might go in with the rest of the "No Need To Know Bucket" questions. I hope not.
Hey, if Smokey takes Kate out next week, it's her own fault.
Oops, got my questions from the previous page mixed up, I was talking about why Dogen kept MIB out. :-o
a few thoughts
1. three possible reasons sayid couldn't kill flocke. He was already claimed by smokey, because smokey beat jacob to the punch and can't be harmed now, or sayid let flocke speak before he knifed him.
2. Ben was claimed by jacob or mib, when he got healed in the spring. This is why he was able to kill jacob. He got fooled into doing it as easily as sayid
3. the flash sideways may not be all warm and fuzzy, rather it is the result of the recruit's faustian deal with flocke. Perhaps related to ben's magic box.
4. killing all the candidates while jacob is dead is what locke is up to. If another jacob is crowned it all starts over again.
5.i think that degrees on the lighthouse wheel, only point out locations that are located on hot spot vortices, like the tunesian desert. Its up to the jacob to decide who the candidate is in that spot.
6. in last weeks plan by jacob the wheel was probably on a number under 32, that's how jacob knew jack would see his mirror, because hurley would have to move it past 32 to get to 108. makes me think the wheel was sent to jarrah and thats why they popped out in tunesia. it seemed like one mirror was clear the other 3 were cloudy. Perhaps smokey's magic box is the lighthouse. i think the cave was jacob's and the lighthouse is smokey's. Jacob could leave, mib is trapped and can only see the mirrors. Or smokey and jacob both had access to the lighthouse, like the bank in monopoly.
7. dogen was gonna have hurley or jack try to kill flocke, might have had a chance since they havent been claimed by smokey yet. Either jacob want's this to play out or he knows they would have failed. He didn't want to chance , jack and hurley getting seduced by flocke.
If we go with the Dogen type sacrifice--- being the ultimate answer of "life" and "good".... the details are much of what Kate's gotten a bashing for:
Dogen was wrong. Realized how wrong he was when the consequences of hurting another that he loved were in front of him. He chose to take responsiblity for those actions, accept the consequence to see another he TRULY loved be alive and well.
I"m putting in a plug for Kate- If Aaron is her temptation, she realized she was wrong to have Aaron. Took responsibility/will accept consequences. Mr. MIB- no deal.
Sayid- however, as much as he says he wants to accept consequences and isn't good enough for Nadia-- makes the deal anyway. Is that really true love? Or, is there no option of a good deal (Sayid cannot choose Nadia's true happiness, even at his own expense) anymore that Jacob is physically dead?
Lostit and SG....Maybe Dogen was the last to have made a deal with Jacob- the last virtue left. Sodom and Gomorrah type... "if there is one good person left" the city would not be destroyed...
AL-- hmmm about Claire and grandmom.....
In addition to those already mentioned...we are also missing Des and Penny in this.... Did Des time travel or make a deal? Is he yet to make a deal? Who must/will he give up or lose little Charlie or Pen?
I think I'm done filling up space till tomorrow....
I agree with whoever said there weren't many answers given out tonight, but I had one BIG question (why the hell is Dogen a character?) answered in that very short, succinct scene between Dogen and Sayid just prior to Dogen's death. If every big question can get answered that quickly, I'm on the ride.
I fibbed b/c I read 2 Costa above me... Ben's lost "innocence" when healed- could really just be Garden of Eden, knowledge of good and evil.
Maybe Ben HAS been good all along (ugh, that's creepier than Keamy). (Then Memphish, I agree... lots of innocents along the way...)
lol I was just about to say night TOL.
This time Really good night SG!
Night TOL. :)
Yes, it's definitely time for bed. G'night.
night lostit.
g'nite, SG!
I'm rewatching now.. Miles making it a point to say to Sayid that he was dead for a good two hours and whatever brought Sayid back to life it wasn't Dogan and his crew. I think it was Jacob!
OMG! OMG! OMG!!! Is Everybody ALL RIGHT...WEB CHECK! WEB CHECK!!
Every one still alive check in..CHECK IN EVERY BODY WHO IS STIL ALIVE!!!
Yes Mel still alive. Awesome episode.
Sayid & Dogen were really well matched in fighting abilities. Dogen could have killed him but didn't because the baseball fell off the table? Or he didn't kill him because he's a candidate? Dogen met his end w/MIB via Sayid. I guess the darkness reached his heart. This is getting sad. I think it's only going to get sadder from here on out.
Really thought Miles was a goner.
Thought Ben was a goner when he walked in on Sayid in the pool.
Creepiest. Episode. Ever.
LOVED IT!
ROFL.. still alive here. re-watching already.
Dogan is scared and won't go out to talk to Flock, so Claire says to him, then send someone who he won't kill. Does he send Sayid because he's a candidate and that's why he knows he won't kill him?
Maybe he sends Sayid because he's already died and claimed.
ah, already dead.... hmmm. claimed by who?
Sayid talking to Kate and then going off on his own in the jungle reminded me of when he left after torturing Sawyer and ended up finding Rousseau.
I'm assuming claimed by MIB but who knows anymore. lol
It's time for me to go too. See you all tomorrow. Night.
What a great episode...Nothing as it seems..More Twists in this episode than a Chubby Checker 45. Possibly the most Surreal episode yet. Like..the emphasis on the unspoken words....was the story..Everything on the surface was just camo for what was going on underneath..Some excellent writing there. What a great metaphor!
I survived...I hope everyone else did.
MEL
Walt is coming to the island..... or maybe Micheal. Just a guess
sorry, weekly lurker and i havent posted since oh i dont know season 4 lol
Reading as I'm watching! Memphish: great analysis...I was thinking the exact same thing! Flocke gives them what they want the most....Locke/Helen....Jack/being a good father....Sayid/Nadia....Kate/keeps Aaron with Claire.
Still watching....
Kate following Sayid & Claire out of the temple & seeing Flocke - the look on her face is what I'm feeling! Why is she following them so blindly? Locke is dead & she knows that! She's got her purpose of getting Claire & Aaron reunited I guess? This show is so crazy!
So, now, war? What can Ilana, Frank, Sun, Jack, Hurley, & Ben possibly do to stop MIB & his merry little band? Ilana better have some kind of ancient mumbo jumbo up her sleeve to capture MIB again or it's curtains!
Speaking of boxes...It's probably been discussed before somewhere, but MIB is really making me think of Pandora's Box. If he escapes the island what is he going to unleash on the world? The end? We know he wants every living thing on the island dead according to Dogen. Does it stop w/the island? Or the world?
MIB was more satan-ish tonight than ever.
@NewtonsGrubby - Welcome back! I lurk mainly, but I can't sleep after that episode. So might as well post random LOST thoughts, right?
@ NewtonsGrubby - I don't think Michael will be making it back to the island after he blew up on the freighter, but Walt would be awesome:) So would Desmond.
Yes Maven, WOW!
I forgot Miles in Ilana's merry little band. How could I forget Miles! I love him too!
I REALLY need to go to bed now. Nite nite, sleep tight, don't let Smokey bite;p
That was definitely something...love how the sideway flashes are fitting into the scheme of things...making a deal with the devil. You get what you ask for, but there are catches...nothing is perfect!
Don't know how Dogen keeps MIB out of the temple. Is it still the ash?
Agree that one thing Kate should have told Claire is that Aaron is safe and secure with Grandma!
I guess Smokey could have scanned Kate as he went by her...maybe hypnotizing her in a way. Although she still had enough sense to pick up that rifle.
Poor Sayid...he's the go-to guy for killing! Even though he's been spending the last 12 years (that's what he said) washing his hands of all the bad things he has done, he's still can't get away from himself.
Glimpse of Jack in the hospital!
So Keamey was the one who Jin was to deliver the watch to?
At least the baseball things was explained. Jacob has made deals, too.
The Smokey attacking the temple scene was awesome. Claire, Sayid and Kate slowly walking out to meet MIB and his new followers was so creepy. Well done!
Hi maven. Good observations as always.
In some ways it's a shame that with so few episodes left, we get to know more about Dogan, who we just met, rather than our dear Losties we've been following for over 5 years. Dogan's baseball reminds me of Kate's toy airplane.
When Sayid says to Flocke that the only thing he ever wanted died in his arms, would he be talking about Shannon, then?
BS: Hi, there! Good thought about Shannon...but I still think it's Nadia! After all, that's who is in his FS.
Hi, yes but it seems this whole season is about misdirection. idk, i'm almost too tired now to make sense. LOL!
Well I'm just checking in (no worries Mel, I'm still alive!), I have GOT to get some sleep (yeah right).
I love the sideways theories you have come up with. There are definitely so many Satan/Judas/Biblical undertones whenever MiB talks. That makes sense so far, although it will take some thinking over. I am very sad though that Sayid has gone to the dark side. :(
My fav part was actually Ben going to get Sayid in the temple and watching the look on Ben's face when Sayid shoots him the evil eye and Ben slowly starts backing up...like he had just encountered a snake...which he apparently did!
Good morning.Did anyone sleep well?
Off to re-watch,but first;
"It only ends once,everything else is just progress"-Jacob
Sayid;a soldier of miss-fortune.
Moring TAV
I'm catching up on last nights post. Then going to rewatch myself.
Scoutpost
The Ben scene was priceless. That's the first time I've ever seen him look really scared, except around Smokey of course.
Dogen said to Sayid:
"For every man there is a scale. On one side of the scale there is good on the other side, evil."
When MIB took the rock of the scalea in the cave he said it was an inside joke.
The longer I watch this season the more I think Jacob is the good side of "a person" and MIB is evil side of the same person. Maybe the reason we still haven't heard the MIB's name.
1. the island game seems to be in a stage where it resembles greco-roman wrestling or football. Jack got his chance to start in a dominant hold, now he must start from a submissive role or Jacob got his chance to offense,now he is trying to defend a mib touchdown.
2. I also thought the island game is now resembling batteship. Mib has to widdle away all of jacob pegs before he can sink the battleship(island).
3. i now suspect the sideways may be the result of everyone's deals with mib. kate and claire each got what they want, aaron back with claire. Sayid got a timeline where nadia doesn't die. Conversly it could be the result of jacob's deals too because dogen got his son back.
4. i just wonder if jack's son and hurley's luck were offered bu mib or jacob.
5. jacob didnt send jack and hurley so they would live, he knew they would join mib, in the same way kate fell into line. If jack saw that posse going around he would join just form familiar faces.
6. still caqn't figure if dogen wasn't sure jacob was dead and that's why he thought sayid might win or if it was because sayid let locke talk before he tryed to kill him.
7. widmore was looking out for team jacob by sending charlotte and faraday to turn off the tempest. Remember it was widmore that thought ben was trying to kill everyone or so he said...
8.flocke has to kill everyone and sink the island to make the sideways stick...
9. Ben knows more about the game then most, that's why he isn't on team flocke yet even though he already killed for him.
10. flocke can kill rank and file other's but he needs recruit's to kill candidates like dogen. Flocke couldn't kill ben if he wanted to.
11. in a seeming inverse of what we thought, jacob offers you your deal in the here and now. I.e. locke can walk on the island but he can't leave or julliette's sister get's cured. Flocke's deal involves being a martyr in this timeline to get happyness in the next life(sideways), more typical of like Christianity. Happyness deferred for the afterlife.
12. ironically i think sayid can now kill flocke because he drank the koolaid, just like it took ben, as a devout jacob guy, to kill jacob. You first have to choose a side before you can kill jacob or flocke\
13. i wonder if jacob had a body like flocke has a body. He wouldn't have burned up so easily in the foot if he had a normal body.
14. part of the jacob deal is to follow the rules to get your reward. dogen wanted to kill sayid but he was reminded his sone would live again if he became the sacrificial lamb so to speak
15. smokey couldn't have hurt kate even if he wanted too.
16. the mirrors were destroyed to handicap team flocke. 4 mirrors, 4 possible timelines?
17. jacob may be better referred to as the man in white, jacob is too specific
number 1 jack was supposed to be jacob...
ben was engineering the death of candidates over the years in order to weaken flocke's possible number of recruits
just like jack got tricked into going to the lighthouse last week, flocke tricked kate into joining him through guilt from the whole aaron thing. kate and jack are the most stubborn in that way
sayid had to kill the chicken for his brother as a child and keamy and omar were his latest chickens he had to kill for his bro
widmore is still trying to influence the sideways through keamy
i bet sayid killed keamy around the time ben killed keamy on the island, like day 90 or something. intersting that ben/sayid parallel
flocke had to use a long con on Ben in order to have him kill jacob, because ben would see right through flocke's introductory magic box deal that got sayid so easily. Although ben seems like he is not i think he is still on team jacob or undecided.
jacob probably did engineer all the pain of the 815'ers/candidates in order to offer them the magic box deal in the here and now. Flocke's offer may be to restore their original timeline.
i have a feeling desmond is not married to penny in the sideways, rather he is married to the girl he left at the alter. Brother cambell and hawkings intervened for jacob in the original timeline.
i also have a feeling that before the black rock came mib was so pissed because he had just wiped out a lot of the island inhabitants and was close to winning, but jacob just kept calling more there.
i wonder if when christain sheppard told sawyer he was too much of a coward to tell jack how proud he was, it was because he didn't wanna chance jack leaving his path to prove chritian wrong and mess up what jacob had planned.
i have a strong suspicion that ben and widmore are aware of both timelines. it makes their showdown in widmore room make more sense. widmore said he ruled the island for 30 years in peace. Richard said there can only be one leader of the others at a time and hawkings was the leader. So there was no time to lead the island for 30 years by the time ben banished him in 1992. 1977 -1992 is only fifteen years. I bet widmore ruled the island 30 years in the sideways. I also think a banished leader of the others isn't out of the loop, they are on to the next role of help the island form the outside world,i.e. hawkings, widmore, brother campbell... not to say they were all leaders.
i wonder if horace brought ben to the island for jacob or mib it o\had to be one of them?
was ben using sayid to kill candidates off island because he needs a candidate to do it?
was keamy a candidate, and that's why smokey couldn't kill him at the barracks. It took ben to do it in one reality and sayid to do it in the sideways
jack's line in the sideways "nothing is irreversible" is huge. it is basically another way of saying "only fools are trapped by time and space". The island being sunken is not irreversible!
unless there is nobody left on the planet in the know or candidates left...
team jacob stand is if they beat smokey and get him retrapped, then they could use time travel to keep the 2007 reality still going. So smokey has to kill everyone before that happens. I think jack is supposed to join smokey then betray him and kill him ala ben/jacob.
seems like someone has something over mib to make him follow the rules, like everyone else. "We all have to answer to someone".
is it just me or did a lot of the temple others seem pumped they were no longer prisoners of the temple. More others were like julliette and were forced to stay than we thought
bram and company seemed like more true believers then a lot of the rank and file others, mib offered him the same deal as sunrise
i think candidates had to be exposed to electromagnetic energy from the 360 vortices shown on the lighthouse wheel. I think there are 360 hotspots on earth. Just like faraday became unstuck somewhat in time from his eloise experiments and a candidate. Not as specific as the names on the wheel, just the place
i wonder if the candidate list could get loopholed by meddling with marriage, for instance nadia is a jarrah in the sideways
Morning,
WOW who could have guessed such a great episopde without Sawyer and Jack in it.
Did Jacob send Hurley/Jack away cause he knew that everyone was going to get killed?
Miles "shes still hot though" hilarious. like the rest of you glad he survived.
i was a little confused by the temple scene, what am i missing that Dogen just wont have someone kill Sayid before he turned? And is it really the ashes that keep MIB out or was it Dogen being alive that did.
Claire was exceptionally creepy. she says hes coming and jacob is waiting for someone.
Are two people coming to the island? or just on person that is being recruited by both MIB/Jacob
2costa said is it just me or did a lot of the temple others seem pumped they were no longer prisoners of the temple. More others were like julliette and were forced to stay than we thought
or do they just go with whoever can protect them. cindy seemed to get it pretty quickly that if they didnt go they would die. and zack and emma have gotten big
Good morning after some night!
I did get the impression that Cindy and the Temple Others seem to change sides pretty easily. Jacob is dead so we should follow MIB. Was Jacob the "scary" one to them?
The last scene was so creepy, so well done....no dialogue needed...sends shivers up and down my spine!
The fact that Lennon freaks out when Dogen dies but had earlier gone through the routine with the ashes again makes me think that the Others are more about show than substance. Was it the ash or Dogen? And if it's not the ash why did Bram and Ilana seem to think it was/is?
I've never understood why the Others would blindly follow this man they've never seen. It almost feels like with Jacob's death that a veil on their senses has been raised and where they once saw through a glass dimly (a glass put over them by Jacob perhaps via room 23) they now at least have the potential to see clearly now the rain has gone.
I'm seriously wondering now if Widmore is on MIB's side. I'll have to look over what Wid said to Locke about going back to the island, etc, to see if he might be a part of working on the Loophole plan. He could be working against Mrs.H and she might not know it. Ew.
Think of it this way Memphish, anyone who believes in a deity believes without actually seeing the entity.
But why do they all of a sudden believe in a deity called Jacob? It's not like he's a major world religion they've heard bits about all their lives.
In fact the brainwashing video states there's a God above Jacob who loves you and Jacob equally.
memphish said...It almost feels like with Jacob's death that a veil on their senses has been raised and where they once saw through a glass dimly (a glass put over them by Jacob perhaps via room 23) they now at least have the potential to see clearly now the rain has gone.
Kind of like in the Wizard of Oz where the Emerald City is emerald colored only because they are all wearing emerald color glasses and they are too brainwashed into it to take them off?
Morning everybody! I would say "good" morning, but a) good seems relative these days ;) and b) I have a LOST hangover.
Yup Scoutpost.
I love this line from this recap. Basically, this is the episode about how, no matter what Sayid does, in whatever timeline or tank top, he's going to commit murder for Nadia's sake. For the most part the writer and I have been in the same place all season, but she's much harder on this episode than I am. I like all the Island stuff and having at least a theory I like about the side flashes, I'm feeling better about that part too. I also love the Old Spice ad and am strangely drawn to Hot Tub Time Machine.
LOL memphish about Hot Tub Time Machine...something about it strangely appealed to me to!
Morning everyone
maven
I still think Cindy left with the kids before fLocke came into the temple as Smokey. Dogen was still alive at that time.
As far as the Others switching sides I think they decided it was better than dying and it gave them time to maybe find a way out. Whih is what I think Kate is doing. She's following to find a weakness or loophole to exploit. I don't think she's been recruited or claimed. I'm not sure if even fLocke trusts her.
Cindy and the kids were with Flocke. I saw them in a screencap.
It's definitely odder to me why Flocke would let Kate join them vs. Kate tagging along. Cause if Kate's not running, what is she doing? Following along on the trek. Yup. I can see that Flocke would want her to join the team assuming that he believes she is still a candidate, but I don't know how he gets Claire to go along with that.
Did anyone else notice that Sayid's wound, like that he inflicted on young Ben moved sides? In the Previously on Lost he clearly got shot on his right side, but I remember the healed wound this season being on his left side. Too lazy to find screencaps. I just thought it was funny.
But it reminds me, when Dogen was testing Sayid he hot pokered his would didn't he? Yet Claire was branded on the shoulder. Did she "die" of a shoulder wound?
Hot pokered Sayid's wound I meant to say.
memphish
I looked but didn't see Cindy with fLocke. I don't how people get these screen caps. It's impressive.
But I still don't think she went with him willingly. She was trying to leave. So why didn't fLocke kill her?
Yeah I noticed the shifting wound when Jack checked it out after he woke up.
Claire didn't die of a shoulder wound,they were just putting her on the scales to test her good/evil balance.The poker was part of the test.
i think widmore most definitely still works for jacob. He wanted lockes body there to warn the others and show them their adversaries face.
i dont think flocke needed locke's body anymore to look like locke. He apparently was with claire looking like locke for the last 3 years while locke was in limbo. Maybe related to the 3 years locke lost when he moved the donkey wheel. Between 2004 when locke turned the wheel and 2007 when he popped out in tunesia locke was nowhere. He wasn't on the island or in the real world. So if flocke no longer needed locke's body then that would make it seem like widmore is on team jacob.
widmore and ben are on the same team, like just because martin luther didn't agree with the pope doesn't make him a devil worshiper.
off island people seem to be even more important than before. brother campbell,hawkings, widmore, and desmond
desmond will be a key to it all
i think jacob knew how easily hurlley and jack would follow mib
flocke wants kate on is team cause she's a candidate and because it will be easier to manipulate jack.
i want to see locke's ghost appear to hurley that would be the shit
locke has a lame reality in the sideways because he never made a deal with jacob or mib
mib needs to have one recruit/candidates kill all the others thats his endgame.
destroying the orchid seems to have played into flocke's hand, but probably done because of ben's greed for power. if the orchid was up and running they could easily go change things before 1977 or 1954,nothing is irreversible!
i wonder why no one has thought of going over and turning the donkey wheel in 2007. to put a wrench in the works
TAV, I was sort of joking, but they seemed to test Sayid's wound to balance him. That's why I wondered about Claire. Do you think Juliet's branding will ever tie back in to this testing?
maybe juliette's brand ended her candidacy, she was crossed off the wall and wheel already even though jacob never had time to cross off locke who had died before julliette. the living candidates that are crossed off like mile's and claire are interesting. was bram speech to miles about picking the right side, refer more to what side miles was gonna be on in 2007 on the island.
it makes no sense that jacob would have the cave and the lighthouse, so i really think the cave was jacob's.
Seems like jacob is fine with the scale being balanced, where as mib want's black to be dominant. Jacob didn't seem to be trying to make the scale tip towards white. Shows jacob had a more reasonable sustainable goals.
im curious to see if sideways sawyer made a deal for julliette to be alive or what.
i think that it is going to take one of flocke's recruits to kill flocke. just like jacob needed to be killed by one of his disciples(ben). sayid probably couldn't do it because either he is claimed or because he hadn't picked locke's team yet
i think there are levels of being on flocke's team. Claire and sayid seem like they really have no choice and are full boar for smokey, where as he really had to convince sawyer through his whole cave adventure.
the producers insist on calling smokey/mib locke and not flocke. i wonder if jacob is somehow the same, where there was a guy named jacob and the man in white took his form. And whats left is some how the synthesis on the man in white and the essences of the form he took(jacob). just like there seems to be a certain cost to mib for taking locke's form, where he has to accept a part of the real locke in the bargain.
breaking the rules put's you out of the running. she tried to directly make jack kill ben.
seeing how evil flocke has become, makes ben look a lot less evil for all the times he tried to kill locke, assuming he was trying to avert the flocke holocaust. Just like on supernatural how they all try to kill sam because they know he is the future vessel for lucifer, nothing against sam.
Best Week Ever is referring to the X timeline as New Thousand Four. I love it.
seems likely now that when smokey was judging eko, he wouldn't be able to manipulate him with a deal in the future. Eko said he would do it all again and that the last thing smokey ever wants to hear. So he killed him rather than have the chance of jacob having an ideologue like eko on jacob's team.
i saw this thing about pascal's wager and it seemed to fit. Last month my 14 yr old had put atheist as his religion on facebook. I told him about pascal's wager at the very least i convinced him agnostic was a better stance. I don't know why i haven't thought of it before. Pascal the mathematician, reasoned that if he had to wager on the existence of God, that if there is no God, then no harm no foul if you were a sinner, but if there is a God then you would go to hell if you were bad. So he would wager on God's existence, because there's less of a downside to being a believer in a world with no God than the downside to be a non-believer in a world with God. I say less of a downside because the argument could be made that the believer wasted a possible life of good hedonistic times for a God that didn't exist. Still eternal hell seems way worse then not getting your jollies in this life. The mib jacob debate seems to be at the heart of the same argument. Mib is all like, there is no god the island is just a rock, why sacrifice your life. jacob is all like it's worth dying for a cause in this life because there is something bigger then each person's happiness on the line.
mib also reminded me of a genie and the island is his bottle, if the sideways is his deals he struck w candidates come to fruition, then like a genie it's always a bittersweet result for your wish. Nadia is alive but life still suck's for sayid
I thought Juliet was marked for breaking the you can't kill an Other rule.(Danny Pickett.)
Of course,no plotting to kill an Other is probably rule #2.
So do you think Juliette knew she was a candidate
What a beautiful poem this Sundown episode is. The unspoken words as highly emotional and even violent as the physical. Just under the surface of Illusions stacked upon Illusion a relationship between Hope and Truth explored in eye glances, gestures, implications, and consequences. This is one episode I very much would wanted to be in the writers room as it was created. The dance between Sayid and Nadia as painful as the round between Sayid and Dogen. And Sayid again as Truth played between his brother and Keemy,,as well as between Dogen and LockeZilla…All 4 have legitimate perspectives and its only the ones with Hope included that Truth allows to continue . And the pay off is ..Jin in the storage room.
.I Love the unexpected of this show. Beauty…Has there been an episode that opened the dimensions of Other realities in the direction of, and With the Direction of the Unsaid Word? like this one?;fascinating exploration there. The Tension in this episode was as real as ..well,,am I the only one who really didn’t mind all the commercials..But when you cut all the tensions with a knife..like Kate , one can be left in aghast at the slaughter. That’s the way it is some times with life changing decisions..and Sayid definetly made one. Hope and Truth believed never to be together,, Hope always a aspiration never to be reached ;now is a promise . How LockeZilla pays his accumulating debt shall be fascinating in its unexpectedness and maybe free Will kate won’t be so aghast this time. Funny ..in her shock and dismay, she remembers to pick up a gun..Kinda neat how LockeZilla makes his expression of free will make hers look like pea shooting.
So Truth determines what it ain’t,as well as what it is,Hope,what it can be..but at end of this poem we are left like jack on cliff..open ended, contemplating all the possibilities between Sayid and Nadia, ,LockeZilla and Sayid, Claire, Kate, between Illanas group and the two bodies in the backed up septic tank, between where is jack and hurley, Jin on Island and Sun in LA X..what a dance!!!..Its starting to make me dizzy. There were moments when I wasn’t sure if I was watching lost fans displeasure withTPTB in their demand for answers as in sayids demand for answers from Dogen,,or a repeat of the Nikki/Paulo arc in the Illusion of Monetary Success bringing Happiness, brought up with the Keemy and company as well as the Dogens story on how he got on the island. And that’s theTruth of living in this existence, of dual realities:..the conflict between the the external realities and the internal wishes,,can kill ya..or maybe just make you dizzy as you watch from above the swirling conflict and keep hoping.
MEL
Swirling, like the waters in that backed up septic tank;and those flowing words descriptive words of yours Mel.
Good question Bigdog;I don't think so.
Juliet knew a lot of Other stuff,but even Richard was kept in the shade on much of Jacob's plans.
my bad takes a village your right, pickett was a candidate too
richard and ben know what's up. just not tipping their hand to mib
Evening everyone! You all were up much later than I, but boy I could not settle down! Enjoyed reading up this evening! You all have such great ideas!
Black Swan- I like your (friend's) idea of the candidates only being an MIB thing. I think Jacob MEANT for Jack to smash the lighthouse- which might also have been an MIB place... (or perhaps counter-measures by Jacob).
I'd like to think the whoever brought Sayid back to life is Jacob! Though he's new, I think Dogen's backstory was a vehicle to tell us something about him, that will apply to those we know and love, but without spoon feeding us the information. I like that possiblity as well as the delivery.
OH MY.... you are right, is it Nadia Sayid wanted , or Shannon???. I forgot all about that!
Ginger et al, creep factor high on my end too. Kate is in shock. She, like Sawyer, will play along till its time to break out and "survive". Yes, now WAR. I was impressed with Ilana enough to not even notice that she was "new"....what a motley crew. And yes, evil in carnate has a name we know.
I posted before that I think Dogen was the last to have direct contact with Jacob- and become a "virtuous" man- kind of Sodom and Gomorrah-like- Abraham bargained for the city if there was 10 virtuous men left, etc... perhaps Dogen bargained for the temple in the same manner and while he was alive a covenant of protection remained, not broken till Dogen's death.
I posted last night, 2 costa mentioned it...did anyone else love the reference to the eggs (remember, Sayid killed the chicken for his brother... and was now doing it again). Incredible attention to detail....that it was Keamy.... creepy. I am encouraged that though we won't have answers to everything the answers we do get will be exquisite!
Maven, I think you are right about Keamey being the intended recip of the watch- but now who will get it? Sayid... and we're back to WHH.
2 costa-re; Your first numbered post, I agree with #3, wonder about #4... I'm not with you on #7, I think Widmore IS an apparition of MIB off island, #11 I disagree with a worldview of Christianity as happiness deferred and that that is what Flocke offers, I think he offers the opposite, instant gratification at the expense of whatever or whoever else it takes, why #15? (I'm all good with anything that helps Kate), I like your Des thoughts...and the island as its own constant is kind of cool...sawyer making a deal for Juliette is also interesting...GREAT reference to Eko having no remorse/regret, Smokey had Nothing to bargain with him about.
Interesting that Kate is "safe" below ground in the hole with Claire. Claire will go along with anything, including let Kate tag along, if it will get her Aaron. Kate may actually be there to be the voice of reason to win claire back, ex. Rouseau finding Alex, she resumed "sanity" sort of after being reunited and/or having hope of being reuinited. I think MIB has been holding it over Claire' head, conditions, conditions, conditions.... stockholm syndrome sets in and he's her "friend".
Scoutpost and Memphish- there is actually a bible verse much like what Memphish wrote "that a veil on their senses has been raised" --- that brings Christians from OT Covenant (living under the law) to New Testimant Covenant (living under grace) Your wording reminded me of it...
MEL- we will still hear from Nikki and Palo! ;-)
Sorry so much to post.... all at once... there was just sooo much to cover!
I too consider the scene of Sayid with blood dripping from knife being told by deceitful Ben ,Its Time to go,,and replying..Its too late for me...as one of the most surreal spooky scenes of Lost..maybe better than the Ben/Widmore bed scene..You just don't get much more poetic on TV than that scene..imho
That line was delivered with eerie brilliance, I agree. The range both Emilie De Ravin and Naveen Andrews display in their "claimed" lives- is really just phenomenal and so believable to watch.
Oh, I get what you're saying now about the deity Memphish.
LOL, I thought that too about Sayid's moving shot/wound!
I said the same about Terry OQuinn's range in Substitute..These dual roles must be a real hoot for the actors...A thought occured to me that maybe the next Emmys will have a lot of LOST competing with a lot of LOST. Andrews performace in Sundown ,,as well as the writing ...wow..And the japanese actor..holy cow!..
Its a very strange observation..but..its like jack Hurley and Sawyer are acting with their mouths,,and Dogen, Sayid, and Claire acting with their Eyes..and Locke and Kate acting with with both..I don't know what its all about if anything..but Its something I'll be keeping tabs on.
Hi all- decided to watch really hard last night and then read through later.
Anyone else been kind of hoping Jacob would be better than just a game player? If Jacob really set up a whole situation where an innocent 12 year old boy is hurt to get a recruit-that's hard to defend. My only thought is that the accident was going to happen anyway, and perhaps it was a "rule" that Dogen had to sacrifice for his son to be saved.
I keep hoping that we are going to see Richard in a flashback taking orders to gas the DI from someone he calls Jacob- but who doesn't look like our Jacob at all. That all along it was Smokey in some form.
JT- I'm no following on Jacob being just a game player. I too hope he didn't set up a 12 year old kid... so, right now I'm choosing to believe that he's the one the redeems for good the WHH. Perhaps neither MIB or Jacob "control" what happens, just encourage people to react one way or another to them. Someone mentioned earlier the old adage of a devil on one shoulder, an angel on the other... these two are tangible.
We are told though, you are right... that someone gave Ben orders to gas the DI... and that's not so innocent... so I'm with you in hope that Ben was duped or something isn't quite yet square in how things shake down.
JT & OTL: I don't think Jacob set up the 12 year old son to get hurt. Dogen admitted he was just promoted and had been out drinking and celebrating and then went to pick up his son from a baseball game. Dogen was a drunk driver.
Does Kate know that the real Locke was dead and in a casket on 316? Or does she think that MIB is Locke?
I agree- things just happened. To go MEL's route, (I think) Free will happened, people made choices.
Didn't dogen admit to a lifestyle after that particular friday? it was "every" friday after that?
Sawyer's parents would have been swindled and made their choices, Jack's father would have chosen to tell him he didn't have what it took...Kate's mom may have married Wayne....
it's the reactions, consequences and ripples of those things that can change with our Lostie's decisions...but even those are still our LOSTIE'S decisions (ex. Claire still chooses to follow MIB to get aaron... like I still believe Kate is there to free her with, um... MEL, truth? about where Aaron is)
Capcom... I dunno...good question.
I'm glad to see some others think there is hope for Jacob.
MEL- I agree, the acting is great. Maybe the way they act just goes to their features-for example Sayid and Claire have those amazing blue and brown eyes.
About Jacob- did anyone catch what he was letting fall into the temple pool when Hurley found him? Just water? It showed that he could interact physically, at least with the pool.
And what about the symbolism of the pool? How Sayid chooses to kill Dogen by drowning him in it, and throws Lennon in as well- into the Smokey contaminated pool.
I was looking at my email and had an email from the Lost store. The have T shirts with the cave names and numbers on them with Locke marked out. I had to have one. I have the original numbers T shirt.
I was just thinking. I wonder how Jack will feel when he finds out what has become of Locke? That bringing his body back created a loophole for MIB to use and start a war.
Perhaps Dogen is not dead, as Sayid was not? (I know that's all questionable). I think Lennon was just convenient to toss in, but there could be hope for Lennon to. (Yeah, I'm so rose colored glasses, I' know there's gonna be cracks in the lenses before its all over!)
Oh dear SG- I hadn't thought of Jack's role.....sigh....that'll hurt a bit.
hey normally i post as Newtons Grubby just figuring on getting more involved now that its final season, both Walt and Micheal are on the original poster, i think they both may make an appearance. What happened to Micheal in the flash sideways?
So many great thoughts here!
@ Capcom, wow, I don't think she did know about the coffin on the plane. That was kind of a Jack & Ben covert op wasn't it? But she did know he was dead because Jack asked her if she was going to the funeral or something and she said,"Why would I?" or something to that effect.
Yeah, ihlonewolfxx, I forgot about that poster. I guess they'll pop up somewhere in the flash sideways. They weren't on the plane. So who knows how different their story may be. That would be interesting to see, but I really don't anticipate seeing them much. Maybe a cameo. Like Juliet, Boone, & Charlie in the first episode. I don't really expect to see Charlie or Boone again. I think they will stick to the main characters that are doing battle on the island and throw the the fans a bone every once in while w/a cameo of one of our Losties in the flash sideways.
Having said that, I do think Desmond has to come back to the island or be shown to some extent because Daniel said he was miraculously different/special. And because he is just too beautiful not to bring back. Throw me a bone, PLEASE!
Of course, Walt was pretty special too. That would be so cool to see Big Walt come back to the island and kick some Smokey butt! I think he could totally do it!
Well I've just come out of hiding after watching that episode.
Very interesting, and hopefully now that the xVerse seems to make more sense and the temple has been trashed, things will move further forward.
The battle lines are definitely being drawn.
Hi Zort!
About the f/side making sense, this episode still fits with it being the iteration after the our island time I think. The f/side is the result of all the choices made in the prior iterations.
Until the island story is done, we don't know what those choices were for everyone.
Dogen sacrificed his life to save his son, and in the f/side he seems to be rewarded by having the son back and having a loving relationship.
Ben deserves to be in Hell, and maybe it is an inside joke that being an English History teacher in a middle school just about fits.
John went through a lot of pain, which he did not understand the purpose of when he died in island times. But in the f/side he can overcome his anger and be happy. Jacob says to him after he falls that he is sorry John has to go through his hard life-maybe knowing though that it will lead to something better.
As to Claire, Sayid and Sawyer and deals with the devil- we'll have to see in the end.
I don't think it's fair to punish Claire though, as her bad choices may be the result of being infected- not her fault.
Sayid is different. If he hadn't shot Ben then maybe Roger wouldn't have shot him- and so forth to his being in the pool. The universe does seem to always "pull him back" when he tries to get out of being a killer though.
Good morning! I have to say, this season is getting better and better. I am intrigued by the artifacts on the island and how they might be used to further the agendas of MIB and Jacob...because I think BOTH have access to them. I have a few other interesting thoughts about that on my blog that would be fun to discuss here too. Hope you all will check it out! Good to "see" you Zort! How's Mrs. Zort?
xxoo
Mrs Zort is ok thanks, just waiting for the good old NHS to finish the job.
JT - I'm not sure about iterations, i.e. implying many. In terms of story telling why are we just seeing the one extra iteration ? or is that the trick we haven't seen yet is that each sideways flash, or even every flash back / forward / sideways is in a completely different itteration ?
I've wondered since watching Jacob go around touching everyone one if this had been the first time he'd done this. Especially with Locke and Ilana.
I still get the feeling that Ilana's injuries, when Jacob went to see her in the hospital were from the war that's were about to see on the island.
i still think widmore is not on team smokey at all. i doubt smokey needed locke's body anymore, thats why illana was in no hurry to bury him. Widmore wanted the body there for the same reason jacob and illana needed it to show the face of the enemy. Widmore was at the lamp post with hawkings last year and seemed like they are working together. Desmond was widmore's big plan to help the island.
i wonder if miles can commune with locke's spirit.
my point about jacob's body was you wouldn't be able to burn up a whole body in that fire that fast, without accelerants. I think that jacob's ash may be mixed with volcanic ash. i think it's possible that jacob's body is made of something similar to flocke's body. Flocke pulled some t2000 stuff this week when stabbed
there also has to be a reason that smokey makes exactly the same sound as moving the lighthouse wheel chain.
i have a feeling that there are only 2 special daggers on the island one for team jacob and one for team flocke. Ironically sayid probably needed the blade that dogen gave him in order to kill dogen. Atm flocke has both daggers too.
i'm pretty positive that the only one that could kill flocke is one of his recruits betraying him. Most people don't think hurley and jack will join flocke but i disagree.
there are definitely more then one level of commitment to flocke. the people who just follow him out of fear. the ones that are claimed and seem like brainwashed or enchanted. Finally there are the ones like kate and sawyer that seem to have a choice and need wooing...
i wonder if the blade locke had to kill cooper was one of the special daggers. Although sawyer was armed with it, he used the chain instead on cooper. Cooper was probably not a candidate it that worked, unless the special blades are only for the leaders like jacob. i guess a candidate can kill a fellow candidate with whatever. julliette killed pickett with a bullet. Dogen tried to have jack poinon sayid. Hurley used the vw to kill pryce. dagger is only for killing mib or jacob
Zort- I think we are seeing this f/sideways (iteration) because it is the end of our story. After whatever happens on the island happens, the effects will be seen in this next go round. But storytelling wise we are seeing the cause and the results together. Just like the movies that - was it Carlton- used to see starting from the middle, because he worked in the theater and would pop in on breaks to watch them.
The forwards and backwards remain within the island time though I think. We might see some across though, in Desmond seeing across iterations- say seeing Charlie die in different ways. And maybe the weird "different picture frame on the wall" things could be explained by a quick flash across and back.
And aside- they miss you on ARGS, Zort. What if we change it from The Lost Args to The Lost Arts? Could keep going with fan art, contests etc.
I think I read somewhere that they finally admitted the picture frames were a continuity error.
Ellen - I jumped over to read you blog- and skimmed down to the "have been spoiled" comment. I was hoping maybe folks who have "read ahead" so to speak, might not give us too may theories, as I don't see how they can be unaffected by what they know. I have stayed out of LP because there are just too many people there and you have no idea where their info is from. Only you know how much you know- but just my 2c.
About the f/sideways being an illustration of the Lostie's deals with MIB- I don't think it is just that. Some evidence that it is more is John- he didn't make any deal, and his story on the island is finished. The f/sideways seems like a result of his island growth to me, as I said, so something that comes after the island, not as an alternative to it.
JT
I've heard several people think the FS are the end of the season.
If it is I would like that. That's one of the things I was afraid of when they said they were going to have FF.
I want to see the end at the end. I don't want to see the end as we figure out how they got there. To me that would be a let down.
But if that's what they're doing maybe the can find a way for it not to be disappointing.
That should be wouldn't like that.
@JT - I whole-heartedly agree, that's why I am not commenting much. I try so hard to avoid spoilers, but sometimes they just jump right out at you with no warning!
xxoo
oh yeah, and regarding the second part, you could be right! Luckily, that's not one of the things I was spoiled on! :)
xxoo
Thanks Ellen- I know what you mean. I literally close my eyes,put may fingers in my ears and go la, la la when the ABC promo for next week comes up.
SG- yes, the frames may be props folks thinking of surfing possibilities rather than frames- or maybe the writers changing their minds on where to go and saying- uhh- continuity error. Yeah, that's it!
I kind of feel that way about the end at the end too- well, then- I won't be disappointed to be completely wrong!
Hey Ginger, thanks for refreshing my memory about what Kate knew about Locke being dead! So that still makes me think that she has some ulterior motive in following Flocke, other than just thinking that, "Hey, this guy is taking these nice people away from the dangerous temple, I think I'll follow him in a trance like everyone else." It just seems like there's more to it than that. I'll admit that even though she's seen Smokey before, it might be a shock to learn that someone could be protected from it somehow, but why wouldn't she be the least bit curious about why a dead Locke is now walking around the island? Hmm.
I also have a feeling that TPTB are going to (or have already?) show us few things now that pertain to the ending, but we won't know they did until later.
Watching again yesterday, it really bugged me that Kate didn't tell Claire that Aaron was with her mother, like Amy said. Just a crazy thing that would not happen in real life IMO, in reality someone would definitely blurt it out with the rest of the info Kate took the time to give her...IMO. :-)
Great comments everyone!
If the FS is showing the ending of the show...maybe the reality of it ending will be easier to take. We would have seen how our beloved characters lived out their lives in a somewhat happy ending.
@Capcom and Ginger: I just think Kate was stunned and has not been claimed or recruited (yet). She did still have enough wits about her when she stooped to pick up a rifle (little does she know that you cannot kill Flocke).
JT
I think what happened was a can of film was lost or destoryed some how. Maybe got wet. I don't know. And they had to re-shoot it and got the frames wrong.
Capcom
Somehow I missed your comment about if Kate knows Locke is dead.
Jack told Sawyer on the way to the barracks the Locke was dead. Kate was in the Jeep with them.
I think everyone knows.
oops Sorry Ginger. You're right Kate knew Locke was dead before they left the island. doh.
Yeah, I forgot that Jack and Kate talked about dead Locke too SG! Heck, it was the infamous airport convo too. So she's seen it talked about at least two times counting post 316 as well.
I like y'all's ideas about Kate. Right, I hope that she doesn't try to shoot Flocke, yikes. I don't think she's been claimed yet either, unless she died when we weren't looking, but that's unlikely. I hope.
This is a test...blogger's acting weird for me...
OMG - just typed the longest post & it disappeared! Testing...Testing...1,2,3
OK, going to try this again.
Hey you all everybody! All three kids napping right now.
@ Capcom, Maven, everybody - yeah, I don't think Kate is claimed or anything. Yet. Hope she keeps her wits about her like Jin did w/Claire or she won't be long for this iteration;) You know she is going to be like Sawyer," I thought you were dead." I suppose Flocke will address it the same way, but I don't know if Kate would respond the same as Sawyer, "Hell yes." I'm still hoping that's a con on his part. Just trying to survive & keep his wits.
@JT - I'm with you on the flash sideways. We are watching how everything ends as we find out how that is even made possible. Very cool story telling!
@SG - I hear you on the end thing, but think of it like I just said above. We don't know how our Losties get to this flash sideways. The island battle has to play out & end to find out how this other reality happens.
I thinks Jack is going to be the one who saves them all. Jack is the next Jacob. I was watching some season 1 the other day & it really stuck out to me how Sawyer called Jack "the hero." And also in "The Lighthouse" when Jack told Hurley he was broken. And then Jacob saying that Jack has something to do but he has to figure it out for himself. Can't just jump in the cab & tell him. If you could do that he would have given the damn pill to Sayid like Dogen asked! He has to figure it out for himself because he is a man of science, not a man of faith.
Poor Sayid. Tragic. At the moment. But maybe he can still end up w/Nadia in the flash sideways. Or maybe Shannon? That would be a stretch!
Oh, one more thing, WHERE THE HELL IS RICHARD? I guess Jacob told him to hide out for a while, you know, till everybody at the temple is dead. And how does Ilana know about candidates but Richard doesn't? We really need to see or be told something about Richard's history. And the Black Rock. Darlton, you got some esplainin' to do! That's my best Ricky Ricardo. Sorry;)
Kate is tracking.
OK, that posted. YAAAA! Back later to catch up some more. See ya.
Interesting thought TAV. Claire?
I think Claire, like Dogen said is a confused girl.
If she hasn't gone completely dark, she may come around once she gets her facts straight.Then she will say I'm not your friend anymore.
Ginger
I don't like the FS so if that's the way the Losties end up then I will be disappointed.
Oh, and always copy your posts. You never know when blogger will eat them. Blogger's been acting up for a couple of days. It hasn't eaten any of my posts yet though. I keep needing to click on newer posts a couple of times to get to the next page.
I'm coming closer to thinking there is no "physical" infection- only manipulation.
SG- interesting thoughts about Ilana's injuries...
Zort- the "everything else is just progress" does seem to indicate your iterations theory, whether they belong to our losties, or multiple generations of Losties, or unrelated losties... who knows
JT- the deals may not be that simple, maybe Locke was someone that someone else made a deal for? guess we'll find out....
Maven, Cap, TAV and Ginger- I think Kate's there to save Claire. She's got the truth to balance MIB's blackmail, she'll tell Claire about her mum having Aaron.... and remember, Claire doesn't even know mum is out of the coma!! That'll be a lot of news! ! In like wise, Sawyer may be the one to save Sayid? (Nothing's irreversible Jack says....
and if Ginger's points that Jack's the key to it all, nothing is, not even Darkness or a draw to kill. Oh yeah, where IS Alpert?
On another note... a friend shared his theory of who Jack's x wife, and David's mom is--- he thinks Penelope. Think about the link between Des and Jack meeting up, Pen was at the stadium when Jack was... how easy it would be to "swap" that scenario on us and have it make sense. The only thing that doesn't fit in his theory is David doesn't have Pen's accent. It was a great theory (my best guess was Ilana or the woman he had an affair with after operating on her father)
That's what I was thinking about Kate, TOL. I think that maybe she's got a plan. She's always got a plan. And up to now she's held nothing much but contempt for the Others, so for her to follow any of them without question (and she's GOT to have some questions!) it seems like she's up to something. Of course, I could be getting it all wrong. But I forgot all about the news for Claire that her mum is OK too, wow!
Noooo, not Jack and Penneh! :-o If that's the case, ATL2 just can't be the end. :o)
oh yeah, almost forgot MEL- was thinking about your eyes vs. words acting... thought about "The eyes are the window to your soul" kinda quotes! Nothing profound that I can make of it, but if anyone can.... you might!
So much detail in Lost- rewatching I noticed Dogen's hands when he holds them up to describe weighing the soul to Sayid. His right hand is ungloved- white- and the left has a black glove. In the end when he holds the baseball-it is always in his ungloved hand.
Im going to make the assumption that this hasn't been brought up yet...
During the original airing of Sundown..there was an advertisement for a car..The ad had the tune..Catch a Falling Star near its end..Then,, there is Claire singing Catch a Fallin Star while she was in the hole and again at the end of episode as camera pulled back over the devastation....So..Catch a Falling Star trying to sell me a Car,, and Catch a Falling Star as..a Hope..what you have after the sun goes down..Hope.
So.. all episode we watch poor Sayid trying to find Truth in all the Illusions being thrown at him..trying to sort out what is True and what is BS..with him becoming exaggeratedly ugly when decision time comes..
How..am i..as the viewer, expected to be exaggeratedly ugly...in dealing with is ...Catch a Falling Star trying to sell me a Car.. and Catch a Falling Star as Hope dichotomy?...
Certainly the Ad could be another Fake ad that have been known to pop up on LOST.. If it wasn't a fake.. my goodness,,then the coincidence is beyound believable..Like do the TPTB say.. Ford.. we need a Catch a Fallin Star commercial!!!...So.. Before I go any further.. If anybody has a tape of the original airing including commercials..need to know was an actual real brand of car being advertised there.If it was a Ford...then...last weeks one hour Ford commercial before LOST..only here in Phoenix..takes on a ...wtf is going on?
So,, anything I say from here on is speculation until verified...If that was a fake ad..then theres that removal of the third wall again..breaking the barrier between the show and the viewer..Lost reaching into our heads in an unexpected way..Lost going outside the parameters of the mundane..Lost..making the Surrealism...real.
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@ SG - sorry you're not digging the FS. I didn't think I would @ 1st. But they're growing on me. Especially since I had the same thought Maven voiced earlier. But the way it came to me was this. This whole situation w/MIB ain't lookin' so great for our Losties. I have a bad feeling about this. Not sure if many will come out alive, if any. So, imagine getting to that ending. Everybody is dead. Except maybe Jack. I would really hate to see that ending! So then I think about Juliet in "LA X" when she was dying. Hallucinating about going dutch w/someone getting a coffee. And then telling Miles "It worked." And now we're seeing all these FS's. It just kind of clicked for me to think "OK, by the end of this war everyone may be dead, BUT "it worked." All the Losties we've come to know and love are alive and not necessarily well, but life goes on.
I know that was kind of a ramble, but that was my thought process to accept the FS. Life is actually looking pretty good for the Losties we've seen so far in the FS. Locke has Helen. Jack has a son & seems to be getting on the right track w/him. Claire may be keeping Aaron and getting her inheritance from Daddy Shepherd, and meeting a half-brother she never knew. Hurley is "lucky" not cursed. Kate may not be a murderer. Sayid - you lose some, you lose some, but Nadia is alive. Jin & Sun - ?. Sawyer? Remains to be seen.
Although, now that I think about it, the FS is kind of like having your cake and eating it too. They're dead, but they're alive!
Little light bulb! Is that what Charlie meant when he visited Hurley at Santa Rosa? Whoa. Brain. Hurting. Nose. Bleeding.
swear i didnt mean to post that twice lol
Check ya'll tomorrow. Nite.
Ginger, so you are saying that Hurley is seeing the "dead" people because he can see between alternate realities.
The only question I would have on that is how they know where Hurley will be in the other reality so they can talk to him.
(I won't accept "because Jacob told them" :-) )
Ginger- I like where you are going with the FS--- perhaps if "It worked"--- by very nature, you cannot continually exist in both places, so "one" of you must die (or in MEL's terms, you become unified, therefore only 1 and your pretentious self dies, am I getting it MEL?)---- so yes, our "on island losties" will die, but only because they've embraced themselves and actualized fully in the real world?
You are right, everyone "seems" to be doing ok in the FS except Sayid, and we see that perhaps, that may be because of his own choices (ex. Pushing Nadia toward his brother)???
Ginger
It's not the the story telling tool of the FS that I dislike (although I admit that was my problem after seeing Kate's story because it didn't really give me anything different) but after watching Locke's, Jack's and Sayid's stories I'm more excepting of them and they're not that bad as a story telling tool.
However what happens to the people in the FS is what I don't like. They may be alive but they're not living. Their lives seem empty and lacking.
Yes Locke seems more excepting of his condition. He gets frustrated but quickly gets over it. But simmering just under the surface you can see the saddness. He's given up. He's no longer a man of faith, he doesn't believe in miracles. He's not truly happy in this life.
Kate is still a fugitive and she's still running. I don't know if she's innocent or not, she also professed to be innocent in the original time line and said there were extenuating circumstances.
She didn't put herself in any danger taking Claire's things back to her then giving her a ride to the adoptive parents house then taking her to the hospital. She more or less did the same thing when she visited her mother when she had cancer.
She also helped people in the original time line. She did go back for Ray and pull him out of a burning truck knowing the marshal was close because he'd been chasing her. She could have run and left Ray for the marshal to help. So I'm not seeing anything to different there yet. So I don't see her life as being better.
Yes Nadia is alive, but Sayid can't be with her. He still doesn't believe he deserves to be happy or be loved.
A seasoned veteran manipulated a young man into torturing someone for him by telling him the man he wants answers from, the man Sayid is protecting has commited atrocities on his village and killed his family.
Sayid believes this is his only worth in his life. He's continually reminded of this. By his brother who wants him to kill for him. By Ben who told him, look what happened the last time you thought with your heart and instead your gun. So other than Nadia being alive there isn't much of a life here for Sayid.
Jack seems to have had the same bad past with his father. His father still drank himself to death. He's still divorced. He has a son whom he's been estranged from for years. He does seem to be trying to break a cycle though.
Jack's story seems to be the only one that may have any hope in it. But I feel this season is about Jack. He's going to have to make a choice and I feel it will effect everyone's lives not just his own.
Well I almost got through that with out any errors. :) But it's to long to correct. lol
SG- you make good points- its only that some, actually only Locke and Jack, "seem" to be doing better in the FS.... I forgot to take Kate into the equation, you are more right than my last post- either not much is changed, or things that are simmering are possibly bound to boil over again (then are we back to square 1, with NO progress? do the FS's undo some progress?....do you repeat till there is progress? argh!)
Does anyone else find that Blogger is showing you a different number of comments in different places?
Trying this again because my browser just crashed.
I haven't followed all the recent back and forth, so forgive me if I'm repeating something. I heard this theory today about the FS. They posited that whether or not there's redemption in the FS shows us which side a character came down on in the war. So Locke and Jack got redemption and are on one side of the war and Kate and Sayid are basically the same people they always were and are on the opposite side. I don't know if I buy it, but it's at least an interesting thought.
I'm just glad that there seems now to be some relationship between the two worlds. That of course was my biggest gripe before this episode. This article pretty much sums up where I was before this most recent episode, but now I'm a little more zen about it.
SG-I know what you mean in that the F/side doesn't seem quite "enough" to be the ending. I think though, you have to look and see if it resolves each Losties "issue" sufficiently.
Jack still has an issue with his father in the F/side- but resolves it with his son, and he knows the problem in himself-and still doesn't drink.
It may be that Locke was still very upset about not walking because he thought Helen wished he wasn't disabled. Helen may have convinced him that she truly loves him, walking or not-and that will be his salvation. Once he believes that- he may go for Jack's miracle!
Kate-her main problem was that she tried to run away from herself because she found she was actually Wayne's daughter-and she felt worthless because of it. She killed him to try and erase the connection. In the F/side, she may be a criminal, but she is a very confident one- accepting of herself. She probably did not kill Wayne-instead she may have given him trouble her whole life- and fought him that way. In the island timeline she was "good" until she blew him up-then she ran in fear after that.
So- she may not have an ideal life- but I think she has solved her issue.
Boone has gotten away from Shannon-thus solved his problem without both of them dying.
Charlie is going to jail perhaps-and hopefully to rehab.We need more from him- but he certainly earned a better life with his Looking Glass sacrifice. He deserves to be freed from the duty of having to "save us".
And Hurley isn't cursed- but the luckiest guy in the world. Hurley always cared about everyone else, but blamed himself for all the bad things that might have happened to them. His resolution would be in seeing that others are generally responsible for their own suffering. So I think it was interesting that he pointed out to Locke that he could have parked in the handicap space. Hurley sees that if his employees contributed to the problem by not saving him a space. He doesn't just accept that it's all his fault-but he is still willing to help Locke out. Go Hurley!
Sorry to go on-but they come up one after the other-
Then there's Sayid- hmm- how do you resolve seemingly being born a killer?
mephish- yes blogger keeps giving me more posts than there actually are. I have been jumping to the bottom of the first page and hitting newest from there- which usually has been working.
hmm memphish..... we have yet to see what side Kate and Jack pick to see if the FS and what "side" you pick, makes a difference. That would paint Flocke as possibly "good"??? , but Sayid is on his side and Sayid's FS doesn't "seem" good? (imo)
JT - perhaps Sayid's problem is the same as Hurley's,oddly enough (may also be sometimes what I also see as kate's), accepting and trying to "right" someone else's wrong or meet their need? Ex. Sayid killing the chicken for his brother.... taking the responsiblity instead of leaving his brother to face it.
Then we see in contrast Eko, who as someone brilliantly said earlier...did the same thing, but had no regrets about his life and choices, so Smokey had no power.... maybe your thoughts on Kate "I am who I am, and believe I am innocent in the face of choices I felt I had to make".... play in too... perhaps, if she carries no guilt or unresolved issue, MIB has no bargaining power with her either
I think that's the point that MIB isn't good. That if you choose him you don't get resolution you get the same old, same old. I agree we don't know who Jack and Kate have picked yet, but I think this person was theorizing that we can tell from the FS which side they will pick.
Anyone listen to Geronimo Jack's Beard yet? They mention something from the script regarding Sayid's S1-S5 timeline that was very different from the X-verse again sort of pointing to how far back the timelines diverge. I don't know if I consider it a spoiler or rather non-canon, so I won't post exactly what, but if you want to know, let me know.
Memphish- i agree... there seems to be more to debunk the "sides" theory than to confirm it.... but I guess we'll see!
You have peaked my Sayid curiousity, but as much as I want to know, I know that I don't really want to know!
JT said...
SG-I know what you mean in that the F/side doesn't seem quite "enough" to be the ending. I think though, you have to look and see if it resolves each Losties "issue" sufficiently.
That was kind of my point. It doesn't. Not for me anyway. :)
Sayid wasn't born to be a killer. He was however manipulated into it and now doesn't believe he deserves anything better. Even though he wants something better. That's why it's so hard for him to change. It's self defeatist. Similar to Hurley's belief in himself. But Hurley found his hope.
I don't believe anyone is chosing sides. I think they are being chosen for sides.
I really don't see the FS as a result of choices made on the island. But I could be wrong of course. :)
Memphish & Lisa- I think mem is talking about Locke and Lisa about Flocke.
Mem- are you saying Locke picked the "good side" so changes in the f/side?
And Lisa- You are thinking she meant Flocke when she was talking about people on different sides?
In any case- I don't think John Locke really picked a side before he died- he just tried to do what was good for the island as he understood it. And as I said above-I do think Kate has changed, so if you use that theory I wouldn't put her with Smokey necessarily.
SG- care to take a run at what you define their issues as- and how they are addressed in the F/side?
JT
JT
Would you?
I thought I did. But apparently not. I just don't see any resoultion in the FS. It's false and hollow.
Defending my position isn't going to change anything. You have your view point and I have mine. I don't feel debating it will change either of our stances. We'll just agree to disagree.
I mean real dead in the hole Locke, not Flocke. Again, this isn't my theory, just one I heard and thought was interesting. I'm still just hoping there's some meaningful relationship between all the timelines we've seen because I agree with Sayid's Girl that the Sideways-world is hollow as it currently stands. As I said last week, I care about Island Jack who I've known for over 5 years, not Dad Jack I've known for 15 minutes and as of right now, to me, they are not the same person.
JT- yep, that's probably what was going on, sorry Mem. But, JT, you bring up a fine and good distinction. Real Lock died off island, before the timeline split, but yet he still gets a flash sideways?
That doesn't jive for me that he would have picked a side at all too...(Memphis wasn't buying the sides theory when it was posted either...but this is an interesting line of convo, at least I hope)
we do see Locke (real lock) carrying out what he thinks are Jacob's instructions, to move the wheel.....or do we? We also see Flocke then, giving Locke directions via Alpert about dying and moving the island.... so were they EVER Jacob's instructions?
We see Locke, and Ben, who had never seen Jacob, carrying out instructions to move the island.....but whose instructions were they? Ever? And when were they really given?
What if it was MIB's idea to move the island? Never Jacobs? Ben had never seen Jacob...only gotten instructions second hand. The "Jacob" Locke saw, was Christian. Am I mistaken? The second part of Locke's instructions (about dying) came from Flocke, via Alpert, when Flocke was "saving" (grooming, recruiting) Locke....while the island was skipping.... ?????
yes, memphish- i get weird numbers on blogger, at one point this thread had 422 posts... I had only blinked! you are all fast, but not that fast!
Great theories about the FS! I think they are key to how the series end. We just might be seeing the ending of the story. I do think that our Losties all made deals with either MIB or Jacob. When they were asked the question: If you can have anything what would it be?...they actually got what they wanted but slightly askew. Kate wants Aaron to be with Claire, but she's still on the run whether she's innocent or not. Locke with with his true love Helen, but he's still in a chair and is a loser with work. Sayid gets to be with Nadia again, but she's been pushed by him to his brother because he still cannot come to terms with who he was/is. Jack is a better father than his was, but he still has to struggle with his relationship with David and he is a divorced man who has not found happiness yet. We haven't seen the rest of the FS yet, but I bet (even with Hurley) something's a little off.
I'm also seeing way too many posts!
maven- its possible, but i would be sad with that kind of ending- unless its done in such a way that there's some value to the entirety of both the island and the FS experiences.
Sorry, SG- didn't mean to bug you-you are right, I do like a friendly (and only if it's friendly) debate! But of course- you can feel whatever you feel-no need to defend anything if you don't want.
Thanks JT. You're very gracious. :)
Black Swan- I like your idea and reasons that the candidate Idea is just MIB's not Jacob's...
SG said about Sayid A seasoned veteran manipulated a young man into torturing someone for him by telling him the man he wants answers from, the man Sayid is protecting has commited atrocities on his village and killed his family.
hmmmm SG, though i know you meant pre-815 off island Sayid and another "seasoned veteran", but you could easily insert MIB as the seasoned veteran on the island and the one he accuses of his misfortune as Jacob, and the village for the temple, and family for Shannon or Nadia...and so on....
with that said, i know the question has already been asked....how many times have we seen an MIB or at least his influence off the island. Is MIB accusing Jacob of the same "manipulation" as he is guilty of...and ARE they the same?
Back to the idea of Locke's deal, if he ever had one: if we compare MIBs offers to the magic box that brought Locke's father- real locke may have already experienced it...the death of his father (on the island at Sawyer's hands).... we know by Helen that his dad is still alive, but, theoretically, on island real Locke has had his revenge.... (as has Sawyer)
Haven't commented here for a while.. just lurking.
THe Lighthouse. Maybe Jacob was trapped on the Island and the lighthouse projected his presence.
Just a thought.
TOL,
I agree that it was MIB's idea to move the island. It was Christian and Claire in the cabin, not Jacob, that Locke was talking to. And remember how Christian's clothes were different when he appeared to Claire and again in the cabin than they were when he appeared to Jack? He was wearing the clothes his body was to be buried in when he appeared to Jack, but completely different clothes when he appeared to Claire and Locke.
I think he was MIB when he appeared to Claire and Locke and perhaps Jacob when he appeared to Jack.
I don't think the candidates were MIB's idea. If so, then Dogen would not have reacted the way he did when Hurley said "I'm a candidate and I can do what I want". And Jacob wouldn't have instructed him to say that.
I think the lighthouse was Jacob's (you had to climb up) and the cave was MIBs (you had to climb down).
Right Lostit, it was Christian and Claire in the cabin, but Locke wouldn't have known that Christian was not Jacob. Christian has said that he speaks on behalf of Jacob, how much of that we can believe? How much did Locke believe? Did Locke make a deal there? We didn't hear the dialog. Christian was part of the final turn of the wheel, egging John on... I dunno... interesting that you think he may have been both MIB and Jacob at different times. I'm not sure about that, but, it's as good a theory as any.
;-)
Ah, I didn't take into account about Jacob telling Hurley that- from Black Swans post near the top of the 200s, it made a lot of sense! Have to rethink!
I like the climb up and climb down contrast you noticed...they certainly made us aware of the journey to each with Sawyers near fall and Hurley's huffing and puffing!
We thought earlier of MIB owning the cave- but I did not know how he could keep it up if he was trapped as Smokey. It seems that when trapped he did not read books(Mice & Men), I don't think he ate (Flocke really loved that mango Ilana gave him)-so it did not seem that he could write the names and cross them out.
On the other hand, the cave is like a prison with the writing on the wall like days being scratched off (getting rid of the candidates as a countdown to freedom?) The tools in it seem old and unused-the old lute(?) there, the furniture that seems ancient. The ladder leading down fell apart. Maybe MIB was trapped there as a man for awhile until he became Smokey. As Smokey he could just swoop down I suppose.
The lighthouse does seem to be tied to Jacob. Looking at this screencap on Dharma Dummies-
http://www.dharmadummies.com/
- you can see that "SHEPHARD" on the dial is written to stand out- in all caps. I'm pretty certain that was a set up by Jacob to get Jack to move along the path to whatever it is he needs to do.
So Smokey brings Sawyer to the cave, and Jacob brings Jack to the lighthouse- and both show the numbers to their "playing pieces". Two moves on the chessboard.
I've been thinking about Sayid and his redemption. Sayid had redeemed himself after leaving the island as one of the O6. He was married to Nadia and was happy, until Jacob touched him.
Jacob started the downward spiral that led to Sayid's downfall. Sayid never wanted to go back to the island. Jacob had Ilana bring him back. So it makes me think that this was Jacob's plan for Sayid.
Probably the only way Sayid can redeem himself on the island is to sacrafice his life, unfortunately. But I could live with that. That would be in Sayid's character, to sacrafice himself for the greater good.He's always tried to protect the people he's cared about. Although his methods have been questionable.
SG: You're absolutely right! Sayid is the only one who did not go back to the island willingly. Jack wanted to put himself back together, Sun wanted to find Jin, Kate wanted to find Claire, Hurley went on Jacob's suggestion and right the wrong of siding with Locke. Maybe having no real reason for coming back, even after being told "we all have to go back", leaves you open for being claimed.
SG- Good observation.....hmmmmmmm......only time will tell.
Well..Jacob is dead now...and Sayid has been reborn anew..Seems kinda Ironic that Hurley ,,as comedy, irony, dark humor, is the only one seeing this Jacob now. Jacobs current show of smugness seems unwarranted in lite of his machinations are backfiring on him one by one...Sayid is now with LockeZilla..Jack has busted up the Jacobian Mirrors.his Temple followers have abandoned him or are dead..Only if LockeZilla is necessary to a Jacob plan that is even bigger does his continued presence make any positive sense...Otherwise, he is a character who doesn't know his time is over.how sad and ironic. That he has so much faith in the continual screw up Jack...may be his ultimate irony.Even Jack won't give him what he expects..btw..did any one else notice how similar Jacks line..My House.. the house that I grew up in..and Richard Nixons opening line to his autobiograph .." i grew up in the house my father built...are...? But I digress..
Seems to me Sayids new found ability to have those around him not able to lie...is a continuing redemption...The suggestion of a New Truth as characterized by Sayid..is necessary to the end. I can't imagine Sayid " dieing" again until the very end.
MEL
SG - WOW, that is so messed up. I hadn't even thought of that. Ben & Jack couldn't convince him, but then Ilana captured him. Poor Sayid. I guess the time traveling Losties had to go back to 77 to shoot Ben and detonate Jughead. Both acts required Sayid to accomplish.
Then that makes me think, who's loophole did MIB really find? His or Jacob's? Because don't you think that they went back to 77 because that's where Jacob sent them? Am I the only one thinking this or is this old news?
Without Sayid shooting Ben, without Jack refusing to help, without Juliet giving Kate the code for the fence, without Kate & Sawyer taking him to the Others to be healed @ the temple, we have no "lost innocence" Ben to stab Jacob. Who else would do that besides the Ben that was created by Roger, Sayid, & the Others?
Do we still think the FS was caused by Jughead's detonation "It worked." Or something else that will happen as a result of the war and bargains w/MIB and/or Jacob?
MEL - if continual screw up Jack had operated on Ben as a child we wouldn't have lost innocence Ben to be manipulated by Lockezilla & stab Jacob. I really think Jacob has a BIGGER plan than MIB. He does know his time is over. He's dead. That's why he is positioning Jack to be his replacement. The whole show has been building to this ULTIMATE hero ending for Jack.
Black Swan - I guess if the candidate thing is MIB & not Jacob that would explain Richard not knowing about it. But still don't know why Ilana would know about it. I'm confused:S As usual:)
How many days till next episode of LOST?
Nite nite, sleep tight, don't let Smokey bite!
Jacob is the one who always brings the people to the island. So it seems like Jacob has set all the death and destruction into motion, to prove to MIB that he is right.
That this group of people will be the one's to end it.
It only ends once everything else is progress. Jacob brings the people, MIB recruits them. They come they fight the destroy it always ends the same. A war ensues among people who should be friends, or at least people who should care about each other. Will something happen to stop the destruction, to end it once and for all? What if anything will be different this time?
i think mib could have upkept the cave when he took human form, like the form of eko's brother. He also was probably dave, that's how he slapped hurley with the slipper. He also tried to make hurley kill himself, which seems like an mib goal. After all dogen only said smokey would appear to you as someone that is dead from your past, not someone from the island or dead on the island. So that also put's ben's mom back in play as maybe smokey
i think before jacob died or whatever untrapped mib, smokey was either separate from mib or mib could only do limited things. He was very timid before. I think he may have really been the protector of the temple and had the capacity to judge and kill or kill in self defense. The pilot is the exception to this theory.
although i think that part of Locke's essence is in flocke and it is part of the bargain or cost of assuming a person's form. I dont think he's human. The part of locke is a result of smokey's scanning process that look's at memories. Probably how mib figures out what to tempt you with. If smokey is the serpent to the island's edan. Then he is looking for your specific, tree of life or tree(what you want most) tree of knowledge(ill tell you what this island is all about) to tempt you with.
Maybe it's like the tinman thing where flocke can turn human if he reaches his goal, but it don't know
if you look at desmond's swan
mural now that we know what we know it makes more sense
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Mural3.jpg
there is one person wearling a white mask and one wearing a black mask. which could signifiy to candidate and recruit or mib and jacob. he also has 108, 8, 16, 42 on there
so that is hurley, jarrah, and kwon
he also has 325 degrees and a compass arrow, we dont know whose 325 yet.
there are also houses around the circumference of the mural, maybe the houses that the compass points to in the lighthouse.
there are also a bunch of stick figures whick i thought were on the beach, but what if they are on a cave wall and represent candidates?
just look at this mural with new eyes...
thanks
there is also upside down stick figures in the water. I wonder if that relates to people who have drowned by the island, charlie, regina from frieghter, the lady boone tried to save, and perhaps some of the people on the frieghter when it blew up
2Costa,
I noticed the houses were under water like Newotherton, with waves on top, & fishies swimming above them.
I also saw the stick figures on a high hill(Remember Ben signaling Richard for help against Keamy & CO.?) above the water trying to survive.
There were two 108's; One was in a sunburst.Does that represent that #108,s re-birth,or an assuming of Island leadership like a king maybe?
Jack Bender; one of TPTB's, drew the mural,but it could be chalked up to Desmond's hatch fever.
andalone posted this at LostARGs
Amazon has a Lost encyclopedia.
amazon
hey, how come it says there are 412 posts but then it only shows me 386? What's up with that?
anyway, wanted to comment some...random thoughts here...
I love the mirrorverse idea, that the numbers and their opposites are somehow connected. However:
Jack could not have married Shannon, had a kid with her, and be divorced from her now. I say this because we saw Boone say to Locke that he went to Australia to rescue his sis from a bad relationship that she didn’t want out of. I doubt she’d be in Australia with a creep and have a kid back in the States like David. It just doesn’t fit. I do love the idea that Jack saves Mr. Rutherford, and therefore does not marry Sarah. I just don’t think Shannon is David’s mom.
From the Pick-a-Nit dept: Wasn’t it 30 pieces of silver that Judas betrayed Jesus for? (Oh, and yes we Christians would still have the Savior we know, if it hadn’t been Judas it would have been someone else. Course correction and all that jazz…)
Kate and Sawyer are opposites? Omg...Please tell me Burke and Shepherd aren’t 32 and 23…no nooooo!
@Sayid’s Girl…the idea that MIB and Jacob are two sides of the same person? Wow. That’s a really interesting idea…no wonder they can’t kill each other! Is that why Ben and Widmore can’t kill one another, they are numerical opposites?
Observation: Ben has killed for MIB, but is walking with Team Jacob. Kate has not been recruited, but is walking with Team Smokey. Hmm?
I’m STILL waiting for Sawyer and Juliet’s coffee date (dutch, of course!)
we return you now to your regularly scheduled insanity...;-)
2 costa- I think Jack Bender said in his LU video that he just winged that mural-meaning it was meant to be some Lost ravings but not full of clues necessarily. Did you see his description of making it in Lost University?
Jack Bender also commented on the mural at PaleyFest....just something he whipped out with Lost icons, but not meaning. For example: He used purple for a circle because that was the paint closest to him.
Ordered my Lost Encyclopedia from Amazon...should be the fan's bible!
The LOST Encyclopedia sounds like it will be a very nice thing to have.
Will it answer any questions though !
I haven't looked at the LU video in awhile but Jack Bender said something to the effect that he knew where the show was going and worked some of those elements in but it wasn't meant to be clues to anything. At least that's the way I remember it anyway. :)
Amused- I agree with your debunking that its Shannon who would be David's mom, but it could either one of the Rutherfords as his mirror-verse, just not a romantic tie.
Ben and widmore as mirror opposites- hmmm... there is no 711 degrees? And there is no 9 either (yet) (ex. added up like the #s)... but I like this idea.
Ben killed for MIB because he was manipulated. I think its different than what he did willingly for Jacob (or who he thought was Jacob). Fine line- he's still accountable for his action of killing Jacob, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he killed for MIB willingly, he still thought he was with Locke.
You are right about the 30 pieces... not 20. If we keep the parallel, it was a terrible deal for Judas... but a miracle came of it for the rest of us.
As much as I was a skater for quite some time... I'm with you on the coffee date!
Maven, I'd love your review when you get the Encyclopedias!
For whipping out a mural, I'd say the guy was pretty in tuned. I read 2Costa's observations and thought "wow...they were thinking ahead!" (I bought some swamp land in Arizona once too....;-)
The Lost Encyclopedia isn't due out until the end of August! That's good because all 6 seasons will be in it! Just pre-orders on Amazon now.
MEL is read into mrjames113083 videocast for Sundown.
Lost Thoughts Season 6 Episode 6
@LT: You mean someone actually understands MEL? (Nothing personal, MEL...love your take on things)!
I love Mr. James' recaps, watch them all the time. What is up with his hair?
Is it Tuesday yet?
A Lost Encyclopedia?? Hah, my dreams were answered! Encyclopedia-Lostica I'm glad that it's not coming out until after the show is over, that would be crazy, too much info would be missing.
Blogger must be acting up again last night and this a.m. :-p
BTW Memphish, your green avi back then on my Lost encyclopedia post looks a lot like the Locke poster that came two years later this past hiatus! Hmmmm, too bad you didn't copyright your avi. :o)
Yeah blogger is being really strange. I can only see mine, capcom's and lotto's avi. The rest are little red Xes.
lol Now the avis are all back but the formatting of the page is off.
I hope this straightens out before tomorrow night. I'm typing in a little tiny rectangle. :)
Teresa is me. Now I only see capcom's avi. I can't get you link to open either capcom but I'm sure it's blogger being screwy. I'll try later.
I think 3 posts of jibberish in a row are enough for now. :)
NEW POST!!
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