Tonight, Hurley tries to persuade Jack to accompany him on an unspecified mission while Jin runs into an old friend.
What is the Lighthouse? Could it be the Lighthouse Station?
Tuesday, February 23, 2010
Lighthouse - Season 6, Episode 4
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 434 Newer› Newest»Apparently I was wrong about the numbers going above 360. I had heard that on a podcast. Guess I better check the facts first. But this season of LOST hasn't inspired me to unendingly search out things.
Thanks Amy Lynn
2costa
If shooting unarmed Tom "Friendly" in the chest because "I didn't believe him." isn't in cold blood then I don't know what is.
Sun was afraid and trying to defend herself. Not that makes killing Coleen any better.
I'm getting really frustrated that this whole we can't tell them anything the Others have always been into apparently originated with Jacob. Despite the fact it seemed clearer that MIB/Flocke/Claire were the bad guys last night, I think I'm still rooting for them.
At least bad in Jacob's eyes. I guess it depends on what "bad" is, huh.
perhaps the lighthouse being on your number makes it a sure thing you come to the island
so maybe there are 360 iterations of the time line.
108 has to be desmond, like he saw 108 on the alarm clock after the failsafe time flash, only other one i can see is widmore is 108
jacob seems confident that if your meant to get to theisland you will
jacob" sometimes you can jump in a cab and tell someone to come to the island, sometimes you can't" makes it seem like jack is candidate prime.
im thinking that widmore is good now, he wanted locke's body on the island to give the others the heads up about smokey and jacob.
i dont know what the appendix means, intersting that christain wanted to do the operation himself. Perhaps jacks appendix on the island started goign bad as the division between the two realites started to fade.
jack having a kid reminded me that jack's grandad seemed like he knew about the island.
like i said before chrsitain at the fire was smokey thats why he could hold aaron and that's why miles could see him, but when locke turned the donkey wheel christain couldn't physically help him. So that was probably ghost christain. I think ghost alex was working with jacob. I dont think flocke knew about that
well maybe killing tom was cold blood, but maybe thats why sawyer is working with smokey, but colleen was trying to kidnap sun, tom was trying to kill them.
i can't figure out why miles was time jumping if he's not a current candidate unless, straume is his grandfathers name, hence his mom's maiden name
perhaps richard really doesn't know about candidates, but dogen knowing makes me think ben definitely knows. Seems more like ben is the good guy he tried to get all the candidates he could off the island. Smokey just intercepted claire before that could happen.
seems like other people can kill candidates, just not candidates. Keamy killed rousseau with no problem
2costa
I'm not so sure they were trying to kidnap Sun. Why shoot at her after she jumped off?
They may not have killed her on the boat, but I think they would have killed her at some point.
Finally looked at the screen caps. The 109 I thought was Faraday is Friendly. Too funny.
barnes is only significant because it's on there twice, i was drunk when i posted that
mike dawson is there
2 LACOMBE Cave Lacombe from the science team
10 MATTINGLEY Cave US army soldier
14 PRYCE Cave/Lighthouse an Other who Hurley ran over with a DHARMA van.
17 Barnes Lighthouse Unknown.
18 Kueffner Lighthouse
19 Nguyen Lighthouse
20 ROUSSEAU Cave/Lighthouse Alex Rousseau or Danielle Rousseau.
21 McHenry Lighthouse
22 Moorhead Lighthouse
24 Kluxen Lighthouse
25 Asher Lighthouse
26 Bozarth Lighthouse
27 Dorrie Lighthouse
28 Howard Lighthouse
29 BRENNAN Cave french team
30 Wade Lighthouse
31 Toms Lighthouse
31 RUTHERFORD Cave Shannon
32 Rutherford Lighthouse Shannon or Adam Rutherford.
33 Novak Lighthouse
33 MARTIN Cave Karl Martin
34 Grimaldi Lighthouse
35 Brennan Lighthouse french
36 Syzmanksi Lighthouse Unknown.
37 Torres Lighthouse
38 Lindstrom Lighthouse
42 KWON Cave Sun-Hwa Kwon and Jin-Soo Kwon
43 BARNES Lighthouse
44 MARTINEZ Lighthouse
48 Stanhope Lighthouse Likely Harper or Goodwin.
51 Austen Lighthouse Most likely Kate Austen
55 BURKE Cave Most likely Juliet Burke
56 Haasea Lighthouse Possibly not crossed out.
58 Burke Lighthouse Likely Juliet Burke. Could also be her late ex-husband, Edmund Burke.
60 Kysea Lighthouse Unknown. Not crossed out.
64 GOLDSTEIN Cave Unknown.
77 FRANETZKI Cave Unknown.
90 TROUP Cave Probably Gary Troup, a deceased survivor and author of Bad Twin
96 Greeson Lighthouse Unknown.
97 Pallison Lighthouse Unknown.
98 Horton Lighthouse Unknown. Possibly related to #112
100 Bardfield Lighthouse Unknown.
101 Faraday Cave/Lighthouse Probably Daniel Faraday.
102 Montand Lighthouse Possibly Montand from Rousseau's team.
104 Lewis Lighthouse Possibly Charlotte Lewis or her parents.
107 Thomson Lighthouse Unknown.
108 Wallace Cave/Lighthouse Unknown.
109 Friendly Lighthouse Likely Tom Friendly.
110 Eipons Lighthouse Unknown.
111 Krein Lighthouse Unknown.
112 Horton Lighthouse Unknown. Possibly related to #98.
113 WORDEN Lighthouse Unknown.
114 YAMADA Lighthouse Unknown.
115 BARGAS Cave/Lighthouse Unknown. Possibly spelled "Barqas"
116 LAMBERT Cave/Lighthouse Unknown.
117 LINUS Cave/Lighthouse Probably Ben Linus, or his father Roger Linus.
118 CHAVEZ Lighthouse Unknown.
119 Almeida Cave/Lighthouse Unknown.
120 Rodriguez Cave/Lighthouse Unknown.
121 Nielson Lighthouse Unknown.
122 Freed Lighthouse Unknown.
124 Dawson Cave/Lighthouse Likely Michael Dawson.
125 Owens Lighthouse Unknown.
126 Renti Lighthouse Unknown.
127 MORA Lighthouse Unknown.
128 Paddock Lighthouse Unknown.
140 LEWIS Cave Probably Charlotte Lewis, or her parents David and Jeanette.
171 STRAUME Cave Probably Miles Straume.
175 COSTA Cave Unknown.
195 PACE Cave Probably Charlie Pace.
197 SHECKLER Cave Probably Sheckler
202 HARGGUS Cave
222 O'TOOLE Cave Unknown.
226 CARLYLE Cave Probably Boone Carlyle.
231 AMISTAD Cave Unknown.
233 JONES Cave Probably the US army soldier
251 YARIS Cave Unknown.
272 ORALINGO Cave Unknown.
282 AGUILA Cave Unknown.
285 JENKINS Cave Steve Jenkins, a survivor who died in the flaming arrow attack.
291 DOMINGO Cave Unknown.
301 MARS Cave u,s, marshal
313 LITTLETON Cave Probably Claire or Aaron. Not Likely Carole.
317 CUNNINGHAM Cave the US army soldier
321 FERNANDEZ Cave Probably Nikki Fernandez
335 HENDERSON Cave Probably Rose Nadler, the only known Henderson (maiden name).
346 GRANT Cave Unknown.
CHANG Cave Pierre or Lara.
DAVISON Cave Unknown.
GARNER Cave Unknown.
GOODSPEED Cave Horace, Amy, Olivia, and Ethan.
PICKETT Cave Danny Pickett or Colleen Pickett.
REYNOLDS Cave
SULLIVAN Cave Probably Sullivan, a survivor who died in the flaming arrow attack.
wallace is 108, thats a scottish name, i wonder if that's really desmonds last name. maybe he was adopted. If rose is up there with her maiden name, then who knows
makes it seem like all the time flashers were candidates, but bernard and frogurt aren't there. Maybe if a candidate is touching a non candidate they flash too like the dharma van or guitar case
sheppard seems to be written over another name
I really like SG's idea about Jacob/MIB being Aaron/David. Thus, Jack is important because he's MIB's father.
crazy that mars is up there
except mib said "of mice and men" was after his time. David wouldn't say that. I think it is more to show how much jack sacrificed to be a candidate
Morning to all...after another mind-blowing episode!
I don't expect major answers in every episode, but I think we got a lot last night along with a lot more questions!
I think the sideways flashes are showing our Losties living their lives without having been chosen by Jacob as Candidates. So we can have Jack "all of a sudden" having a teenage son.
I guess Flocke has been recruiting, per Ilana, and his "team" is now Sawyer, Claire, and possibly, Jin. But I'm still not 100% sold on his side being the bad one. Since he's been trapped on the island and used to be a man, I almost feel sorry for him being manipulated by Jacob.
Frustration set in when Jack broke those mirrors (I had not seen the promo showing that). I would think that even Hurley would have wanted to see what was in the mirror at his number. That list of numbers over at Lostpedia is great!
I still don't get why Claire has gone "crazy" over where her bay-bee is. She seemed pretty cool with everything when Locke found her with Christian in the cabin. Aaron was where he was supposed to be. I realize that the infection could be part of this, but wasn't she infected in that cabin scene?
@2costa... maybe David doesn't know that he grows up to be MIB. :)
Wow, great comments, insights, and research everyone! Very helpful and much appreciated.
But like you Memphish, this season for some reason I'm not very inspired to do the academic research myself on all this stuff. I think I'm just tired of researching things that don't come around to mean anything, or that just lead to fuzzy dead ends and iffy insights. I'm kinda tired of speculation, and I like to get some gratification out of my efforts, haha. Maybe it's my S6 destiny to just sit back and wait for TPTB to tell me what the h-e-double-hockeysticks is going on here....and to read everything that you all find, heheh. :-B
I agree with you, Capcom and Memphish! I'm enjoying all these comments and make a few here and there...but I'm trying to just enjoy this last season. I have complete trust in Darlton to take me on a great journey and tell their story and bring it to a satisfying conclusion.
I agree with you, maven, but my patience is beginning to wear a little thin.
My faith and joy in the experience is unfortunately fading. I enjoy watching each episode once, but the more I mull on them the less they do for me. The side flashes have completely failed for me. I know that by the end they're supposed to mean something, but to me they don't now, and you know what Darlton, I'm watching them now, not months from now after I know the ending. I signed up to watch, not to rewatch.
Side Kate and Side Jack also were too similar to Original Kate and Original Jack. Kate runs but cares; Jack has daddy issues. I've known that for 5+ years. Locke's side story worked better because it seemed to give us something different. Maybe Kate should have turned herself in. I still don't think Jack should have been a bad dad until all of a sudden now he's a good one. That just doesn't read right to me.
@memphish, I think it's mostly a pace issue. Every week, it seems the episodes are slow (with the exception of The Substitute), as if they're on pace for a 24 episode season, which isn't the case.
I liked the “ feel” of this episode. I mean,,an axe to the ole gut..waooohaaa!! Timmmmbbbeeeerrrrrr!!!..yea…even in a suit, the Dogen was wrong.His need to control,dominate expressed in his own words. Its not about competition, stepping in to help them win…its like Jack said..Lovin the white pastey face little schitt mistakes, failures successes and all..and thereby jack breaks the cycle of Father/Son unfortunate relationships plagueing LOST from the get go. That felt good.
Which leaves Jack and us..on the cliffs,,contemplating the Ocean..Seems to me Jacob is a bit over confident,,cocky with his attitude..Jack just demonstrated the ability to do something unexpected…Bens tumor operation is a good example of Jack thinking up the unexpected. Perhaps Jacobs confidence is built on his complacency. Seems neat the Irony in the form of Hurley..was so key in this episode. He “ led “ Jack to the LightHouse,,and Jack did the opposite of what he was ,,,expected. I suspect jack has a lot of Irony well on his mind.
Jin is certainly conflicted and confused with the Irony of Claire. Shes a regular Paul Bunyon there with the axe..okay maybe Lizzy Borden..but you know she is right about him killing her if she didn’t take a few wacks first..Lies are like that.…I mean Jin,,has been nothing but the recipient of Claires good graces.. Maybe Schmookle Doodle Do will set Jin right.
Neat that Alice in wonderland sneaks back in to the “ mythology” of Lost,,and Jack extending himself beyond the accepted..finds the key under the rabbit,,in the rabbit hole? Yea,, jack goes to daves room,,and finds “ who”his estranged son really is. Interesting how rooms, houses, heck even caves are being used in metaphoric goodness. We all dwell in the Space between the ears..our “ room,,house,,cave..etc”. It is there,,like last weeks episode,,we find what is sane and insane,,and there,,the Irony of what we or others,,call sane and call insane.
MEL
Heheh, right Memphish, I was thinking that same thing last night....i.e., I don't understand it now, will I care more when I do understand it? And will it be any fun to have to rewatch it over again just to finally get it with the known ending? I'm thinking not so much, but I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong even. But I don't want to be stuck in an endless loop of rewatching just to catch and recatch the things from the beginning that finally match with the ending, hahah.
With all the holes in the story that won't have time to be filled, I'm guessing that they could have gone on for seven seasons, given us more gratification as viewers, and still maintained a really tight story....with less holes in it. But again, I could be totally off-base.
Two questions I want answered:
1) Did Claire flash around time?
2) Why doesn't Claire want to know who taught Jin to speak English?
part of why i think widmore is good is flocke didn't seem to need locke's body on the island to assume his form. Claire seems to have been friends with flocke for a while. I think widmore wanted locke on the island so much to tip off the temple others of flocke. The only other thing i can think is that flocke appeared as christain to claire until locke's body arrived on the island. I think claire referred to her dad as different from her "friend" so it remains to be seen.
i have a feeling they are gonna mess with our heads and make us think flocke isn't so bad for a while, and then reveal that he really was bad. Richard was probably telling the truth that flocke wants to kill all the candidates or engineer their death.
im fairly confident that desmond is 108 wallace, he is the only scot we know of besides maybe widmore. perhaps jacob made sure that desmond had more than one last name in order to protect him form smokey. I think it's quite possible that desmond was adopted and wallace was his birth name. If the mirrors show your past then it would make sense that your original name would make the wheel, like rose is listed as her maiden name.
LOL Amy. :-D
Interesting 2costa.
claire didn't time jump, she obviously had time to build up this relations ship with the 2004-2007 others, build shelters traps and such, while the time flashers have only been in 2007 for one day.
i want to know more about the chip that ben referenced was in claires head a couple season back, where does it tie in?
if killing has nothing to do with time jumping, maybe birth or having a child does. Sun and claire both seem to not time jump and both had kids in 2004-5 with island ties.
the wheel seems to account for some minor players time jumping like steve, so who knows maybe frogurt and bernard are on the list we didn't see all 360 candidates. Perhaps being claimed by smokey ruins your time jumping. Sayid was not claimed until recently.
i wonder if when ben summoned the smoke moonster he drained some kind of water barrier around the barracks like a mote?
And Mel, I was also thinking "thru the looking glass" when we saw Jack break the mirrors in the preview (stupid ABC!) in that, woops, no more going back now once you've broken the looking glass. Metaphorically speaking. :o)
maybe the two mirrors is a controlled way to mess with the timeline and keep the changes straight in one's head. Maybe the dial being turned to your name shows jacob or whoever watching what the consequences of that candidate being the one are, so hence 360 timelines, in the other mirrow that hurley waqs standing in front of. Perhaps the sideways reality is the dial turned to hurley's number and thats why he seems to have it all going so great
the mirrors and the chain seemd new, so i think the lighthouse could easily be repaired.
Perhaps the new jacob gets to start over form the beginning and fill in the names he sees fit. the sideways represents the timeline with a cuckold island and no jacob and will only exist until a new jacob is coronated or will be permanent if smokey accomplishes whatever he is trying and sinks the island in the sideways or kills allo the candidates before one ascends to jacobdom
Well I haven't caught up this morning and have skimmed a bit. I agree that it is difficult to maintain the interest/obsession that we've had the past 5 years. I think we've all poured so much analytical energy into this show, that we just don't have it anymore. I am totally along for the ride this season. I think it's easier that way, if I don't over think it and just go with the flow. I think if we over do it, we'll just be disappointed in the end anyway, so I'm just going to enjoy where they're taking this and appreciate all the work that goes into writing this intricate storyline.
I'll have to head over to Lostpedia and see the # list, if it's like 2Costa's...amazing work!
@Mungonna- I haven't heard personally from ABC15, but they did respond to some complaints to the ABC15 Facebook page and said that they would air the enhanced version of The Substitute at 12:35am Sunday. still sucks, but just letting you know FYI.
Hopefully I'll make it back here later tonight. Have a great day LoCo's.
somthing that stuck out for me is the theme of "home" lately
mib wants to go home
sawyer says the barracks are his home, mib says it's not you just lived there a while, this seems to go with locke telling sideways jack that christain's body is not his soul. His soul just lived there for a while.
the pictures that jack saw in the mirrors were all pics of candidates homes or locations. perhaps the number automatically shows the place at that number and jacob finds out who the candidate is at that location? locke always thought the island was his true home as well as ben.
adoption plays into this too, if you get adopted(see aaron,locke) what is your true home? what is your true name? locke did manage to keep his bio mom's name. Maybe there is a matriarchal tie to the names too,rose's maiden name and locke having his mother's
who are desmonds parents?
who is desmond's parents?
why does the flash sideways affect parents so much,i.e. locke seems to have different relationship with father, kate doesn't kill bio dad, jack is a father, hugo's grandfather probably doesn't die after he win's lottery(part of why he felt cursed)?
i redacted that list from lostpedia scoutpost, cut out filler for space
This was the first episode where I thought the theory of the FS being "what if Jacob hadn't touched them?" became invalid, because Jacob's appearance or non-appearance in Jack's life wouldn't have an effect on whether or not he already had a son at the time
was it important that claire not let aaron get raised by an-other because he would have a different name or because malkin knew how batty claire gets from flocke's leave aaron for kate plan.
i can't really see jack having the kid with his ex-wife because there was no way jack was a surgeon fixing her back 13-14 years earlier. Unless things are drastically different in the sideways, is the appandix thing with jack an indication of wildy different circumstances for course corrections between the two realities? I'm still not convinced that cooper didn't throw locke out a window in the sideways. How did he meet helen if not in a support group. How would he get the line "dont tell me what i cant do" if not form his rehab nurse?
Well that's another OMG for me! Just finished watching so time to read what you've all had to say. My second favourite bit of each episode!
maybe in the original timeline jack doesn't know he's a father. maybe he was never informed. no matter what its a change past 1977 so who knows what happened on the island after julliette/jughead could have affected jack being or knowing he's a father.
David Sheppard could give entirerly new meaning to charlie's DS ring?
does christain tell jack he doesn't have what it takes because he doesn't want jack to be the new jacob?
the white rabbit seems to be a theme for all sheppards, remember jacks gramps and the freaky rabbit with black eyes. jack find the spare key under rabbit...
musician seemed to be a throwaway occupation on the island, but now we see it is more important. Charlie, david shepard, the looking glass designer. Although music hasn't always been on the show its significant when it is. When jack was all oxycoton he was listening to nirvana-ties into island bhuddist ties. Hurley listened to music in the beginning of the series. desmond had his music. Sawyer was rocking to iggy pop and seek and destroy last week, jeranimo jackson is like a dharma band
music vs medicine seems to underscore the faith vs, science thing of the island. A lot doctors would be disappointed that their kid was a musician. Liberal arts over science? jack was probably happy because he wanted his son to not follow in his footsteps like jack followed in his fathers...
Just to claify the MIB/Jacob David/Aaron was a crazy idea that popped into my head while re watching at 11:00pm.
Of course if it turns out to be right I'll claim bragging rights. But I don't really think it will be correct. :)
Scoutpost...12:35 am..A.M.?? Sunday morning..??? I think Claire needs to be introduced to abc15's program director. What an insult!!..Like the hour long FORD commercial couldn't have been aired at 12:35am Sunday morning..WTF!! I mean..first he says untie me, so I can break her neck..then he swears up and down that he'll go, and never tell anybody about anything..Just one BS lie after another..I ain't no Jin,,so...
perhaps ..i'm taking this a little personal..but shoot..Theres Dogen in a suit...theres a Last Will and Testament that looked alot like a Shoe of recent memory..and now..this Ford event,,only in the Phoenix area....What ever is going on..I'm diggin the Surreal of it all,,but as can be seen..its no promise of rainbow and lollipops..Thats the Surreal for you...
MEL
after lost last night the southpark where they are selling fake teeth to fool the toothfairy was on, the funny weirde thing was kyle in the episode was reading books that could have been ripped from lost. He is reading a book on quantum physics and he replies that there could be endless amounts of alternate universes. Then he is reading some bhuddist text and he says something about how black and white are all the same.
during lost season i go through a lost psychosis and see connections everywhere. The other day i thought tiger woods was related, in hios talk about his "core values' and his bhuddist faith.
i also thought this dimitri martin scetch a couple weeks ago on a palne was lost inspired. It had koreans and everything.
damon in the podcast was saying it was a coincidence that The real dogen the father of zen and inspiration for our dogen's death date was 9/22 was a coincidence. Then i start to think that there is some greater meaning to lost beyong and bigger then the show or writers... then my wife tells me to shut up
I liked the visual metaphor at the beginning of this episode,,the weird Tic Tac Toe going on between Hurley and Miles..Miles ‘es blo-off of it all as big woop de doo.. or the predictability of it, struck me as ..very neat…So I was going to propose a Tic Tac Toe game here..abit different tho..Instead of inside the box of 9 …just a list of opposites, ironies.. in vertical . then it occurred to me..perhaps the X’s and O’s are metaphorical in an other sense….hugs and kisses inside the boxes..and taking the “ hugs and kisses” outside the box of predictability was what the episode was really about.
Jack did afterall have to go beyond the norm to find his son. Perhaps jack ponders the beauty of unpredictable Love while he sits by the Ocean. Jin is snared on his own words with Claire saying ,,that it was good thing he was lying about kate,,because If the Others find out,,they would kill her..Jin,,again ,,finds himself in the middle of the intersection between Love and cruel reality…but this time its about self preservation and he is wounded…Fascinating.
There is one Irony that got me..The Pen..so difficult for jack to find one on board a plane..but sooo apparently easy on the Island inside the Temple..Amazing!! Paper seems the issue tho,,tic tac toe is usually played on paper,,directions on Hurleys arm usually on paper a,d of course ..omg..Dogen is the only who has TP? Maybe that’s all ChromeDomelookingforaHome needs to do..provide TP for the Temple-iestas,,and see how many defect from the Jacob…Somebody is coming to the Island and it’s the Charmin man..Thats not so bad is it?
MEL
I'm not all the way caught up, but hopefully will get there soon...
I know some had mentioned that perhaps the lighthouse was actually a tool used by MIB. I think I like this idea more and more. Jacob has the ability to go off the island and could "check in" on his candidates, but MIB seems to be trapped on the island. He would NEED a way to see them. So Jacob's plan all along was for Jack to see what he saw, and destroy the lighthouse so MIB could no longer use it. Also, does anyone else think that the numbers on the cave wall and the lighthouse dial might actually be MIB's numbers? As in, he keeps a list of all the people that Jacob "contacts" in the real world, spies on them, and it's actually MIB that is crossing them off as they die or lose candidacy, not Jacob. And now he's using his own cave wall to help recruit.
Anybody think Jacob's last name may have been Wallace? Or the MIB's? That lighthouse looks like it's been around for a long time.
Cosmically Yours
Ooh, I like the idea that MIB = Wallace.
@Mungonna- yes 12:35 AM...as in after midnight so you have to record it and watch it later. And yes, total slap in the face, and they are totally unapologetic for it. Obviously $ speaks louder than viewer loyalty. But seriously, fans need to write in and tell them what a bad decision that was, and that they will boycott ABC news and local programming. If there are enough people, they MIGHT listen. Otherwise, what's to stop them from doing it again? I hope it won't come to that.
Someone on TWoP mentioned this, and I thought it was relevant to discuss... is it just sloppy writing that our Hurley, who FREAKS OUT at any incarnation of the numbers, would have been so go-with-the-flow with them at the light house?
I'm very interested in the possibility that MIB, once being a man who experienced things and is now trapped on the island, was a name in the Cave or the Lighthouse. Being #108 Wallace would make sense to me!
Great comments. Like it. I, too, wonder about the lighthouse providing a connection to the FS world. There seemed to be a lot emphasis on both island Jack and FS Jack experiencing deja vu like moments. When Jack saw his house, he said it was the house he grew up in but since he was just in that house in the FS scene preceding that, it gives me hope for a meaningful tie-in with the FS world. The dates may be different but the events in FS 2004 may be significant in the island present. I was thinking about some sort of wormhole (an idea abandoned during the writer's strike, but perhaps not altogether dead) connecting the two worlds together in some sense.
I also thought it was great to see the MacCutcheon whiskey in the Sheppard home, so often a symbol for "not having what it takes", and Jack declining.
im still thinking wallace is someone that needs to come tot he island. although a ruse to get jack/hurley out of temple, he also didn't say it was a lie.
i think if steve has a slot on the wheel, then desmond or widmore deserve one. i dont doubt that mib was a candidate at some point, maybe he started out in jacob's job and then got trapped as mib.
i like in the japanese translation dogen, tells hurley" if you were not protected i would cut your head off" in the hall
he also tells lennon "do whatever you have to to get ford back here" in what kate does.
to go with my thoughts about what is really "home". I think names have been a theme like that. sawyer was just a name james ford lived in for a while. Ben used to go by henry gayle. Somehow i never realized that tom's real name was mr. friendly. Cooper had like a million aliases. kate used lots of aliases.
Just curious, since the US'ers get the LOST finale on 5/23, two days before it would normally air, do the UK'ers get it early, too? It'd be so nice to all see the damn thing on the same day!
I'm thinking a re-read of The Dark Tower series may be in order. I sure hope that LOST ends better than that series did.
Amy, I guess that if Hurley had a chance to see if any names that he knew matched up with his numbers he may have reacted. Since there were 360 names/numbers perhaps he didn't get the chance to notice the distinction?
@Capcom, possibility... I'll have to re-watch to see if he noticed Jack was stopping on 23.
On this issue of things in the " real" reality not feeling " right"..well yea...like last week and the week before, etc..there are aspects of the real reality,,or off Island reality,,being abit too...warm and fuzzy...a exaggerated or distorted reality by what is not presented..things are a bit too easy and sweet...perhaps young Dave's ..complextion..was or is a good example of " exaggeration'..kinda like Jack's wigs in..realistic exaggeration..just to the edge of acceptability for some and over the cliff for others like me..
SO...what does this "exaggerated reality" suggest?...To me..it suggests a 3 rd reality coming,,SmackDaddySchmibbleyDat's 3rd option,,the rise above the conflicted realities we are being presented now..or the end of the drama,,The End of the show...episode 16. We'll kno it when we get there. But until then,,I too find the " real" reality rather " easy'...But I believe that is the nature of projecting into the future.
MEL
I think Hurley is just very zen about everything now, including the numbers.
You guys are my work break! Hooray! Will take things little by little...
I agree 2c- MIB=Christian at least at campfire & cabin- I'd be game to say beach too.
JT- Good theory on candidate #1 coming (or 108?).
Who is 108?
Lost 2010- Wow! I like the theory that MIB was released by the drill or bomb (Kinda genie in a bottle) but I'm not sure where Jacob fits... ?
Lost it said,re Rouseau Once she found Alex, she seemed to become almost normal.
Can sadness and loss be deemed "darkness"? Maybe, if unresolved or you are so lied to and deceived you are "in the dark" figuratively? With the talk of Answers and knowledge, that might make sense?
Thanks for the votes of confidence Amy Lynn and Maven!
Smokey/MIB did seem pretty mad at Jacob for wasting everyone's lives, as he said at the end of The Substitute to Sawyer. Might be because his life, as Wallace, was manipulated and wasted by Jacob when he was brought to the island to be the new caretaker long ago. He's speaking from experience.
No one is coming to island. But someone is coming to the Temple.
Cosmically Yours
im pretty sure desmond is coming back to the island, hawkings said he wasn't ready yet...
and widmore, "you took my island, and it will be mine again!", will come back too, those can't be throwaway lines.
i'm wodering if faraday is alive in the sideways???
i was watching NCIS earlier today,where terry o'quinn plays "the colonel" . it ends up he's schizophrenic and keeps seeing this dead soldier that keeps saying "i dont understand" before he dies. The episode ends with o'quinn saying "i dont understand" over and over, very creepy and widmore is the NCIS director...
this season six chess promo does rock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ1HnEG4-is&feature=related
the sound you hear during the narration is the same sound that u here when it switches to and from the sideways flashes instead of a woosh
MEL- don't know. Did you ever see "The Point" by Harry Nillson- there's one line about "you see...what you want to see,and you hear...,what you want to hear."
I'm pretty sure Jack did just what Jacob expected and planned in breaking the mirror.
And Claire said SHE would have had to kill Kate- not the Others. Yes, she was right that her prisoner would have killed her-but it sure seems she's gone- that baby in the crib is pretty horrifying and that's a vicious way to execute someone.
For all that, you may be right- there are a lot of mirrors popping up everywhere.
G- Jacob and MIB as Aaron and David... why not? I like it. Where did you see Mrs. Hawkings pin?
Anne- hooray for freetime and a Babelfish degree.
2C- yay for finding Kate! I like the theory of coming full circle... how about this? Kate being #51... and not one of the #s... maybe who is #32? who is #61? who is 24? are Mirror images of the number??? 108 Wallace? What would be the opposite? 0 or 1?
Karma- No one is coming to the island, but someone is coming to the temple.. hmmmm...important distinction maybe?
Maven' said So the numbers that get assigned to each Candidate relates to the degree that Jacob can see them in the mirror?
That is deep... a great theory! in that case, wouldn't the best place be 180? Exactly across? A full reflection? MEL? Mirrors Expertise please?
2c said....maybe in the original timeline jack doesn't know he's a father. good thought! David Sheppard could give the DS ring, new meaning! But Charlie said it was a family thing- that might put an "ew" in the Charlie and claire relationship if the lineage was paternal? But otherwise it does spin the "you don't have what it takes" on its head, with Jack's making that "right" David now would!
Young wallace- I like your MIB's lighthouse idea- and travel vs. trapped.
Perhaps some of the disappointment I'm reading here lends itself simply to- the speculations and questions you all have here are more fun than the answers? Just speculating.....? (I'm finding that the answers are so far, bittersweet)
I myself am tired of speculating. I don't mind trying to interpret what I've seen to understand the meaning of it, but I'm all worn out with attempting to figure out what story it is that TPTB are trying to tell us. I'm still enjoying Lost for sure, but not so much this season yet. I hope that I get to eat my words. :o)
It is a weird season, eh? Or a weird experience of the season? Whatever the reason- i do hope you get to eat your words- and I do hope not to be disappointed either- back to true love...right? Love the ride and all that it is!
im hoping there is a revelation about the flash sideways that makes it important and awsome in retrospect
Even if we don't want to we can't help it, it's still snowing spitballs!!
How about- the lighthouse is how Jacob leaves the island and gets to the candidates- by setting it to their bearing? Like the donkey wheel, but more precise.
I also like the theme that was mentioned with Dogen- about children having to help themselves, the adults can't play the piano for them. Followed by Jack "fixing" the issue of making a child feel inadequate. Made me think of the whispers in the airport that someone resolved as "they are only children." In other discussions it struck me that Jacob was like a teacher who could not cheat and give the answers to the test. And here are Jacob & Dogen- saying it right out-Jack has to figure it out himself.
..My goodness..You folks need to read some A Breton..Lost is sooo Breton. Breton is so all over the place,,its almost impossible to know where he is going until he has you rite on top of it,,and then with one or two questions and answers..Boom there you are..All the crazyness, loop de loops, digressions,,etc etc..all come together and understanding is yours. LOST emulates Andre Breton in style as well as content.
There is a " distance" that has to be found when reading Breton..Too close and you miss the Big picture,,too far away and lack of caring can be yours. LOST is the smae way..Too close and alls you get is speculation with no answers..too far away and its too massive to carry or care to carry. So,,as the viewer,, you have to focus the lens.
I focus on dialogue and the visual message..what is being said, by whom, and what visual clues are they giving me at the same time. So..i am a few steps back,,not so close as to miss how the words spoken are being influenced by the surroundings. I am of the firm belief that TPTB control Everything you see and hear,,including minor mistakes and Huge, wonderful, Visual Metaphors. In other words.. a little scene, like Hurley and Miles playing Tic Tac Toe..is in the show because its telling me something..its being communicated to me for a purpose. I do not believe in the concept of " filler" being applied to LOST. So..I'm at a " distance" that doesn't focus on what the X and O are made of,,but can focus on How they are involved with an overall message. Just about every episode of LOST..has a scene,,usually the one leading up to the LOST Logo at a " dutch" angle coming at you,,that is a visual metaphor for what the episode is about..or..sets up the conflict or the " arc"of the episode. If there is a " formula" to LOST..and there is..the early visual metaphor, the scene surrounding it early in the episode..is the first ingredient to the formula.
Its been there for me since season 1..what can I say..It works for me. This is story telling..A story is being told..Perhaps..the best analogy I can use is..the 3 dimensional game of chess..rather than playing a game of chess or heck..could be checkers..matters not,,, rather than playing on a flat 2 dimensional.. board,,Lost is being played on a 3 dimensional field...the story is being told thru dimensions rather than on dimensions. What is going on , on the upper level far right in the rear is tangentially connected to what is going on , on the lowest level left front. The dialogue, the " feel",, the theme, the want, the need,,the Desire connects the levels and the story is thus woven.
Alls I can say is..please don't let the want to label it..misdirect you from seeing it. Please don't let the want to identify it,,like Jack keeps making the mistake of, " just tell me who.. or just tell me what..no...like Jack now..you may have to look out over the Ocean and let it come to you.
But I know for sure..a story is being told...and just like Breton's works..you probably won;t see the End until its rite on top of you. And then you'l realize..its been there all along and you'll know then where to focus your lens on.
We first see Jack on the Island in this episode..looking at a reflection of himself on the ponds surface and there is a bit of rain. The episode near end has Jack busting up the Mirrors that remind him of his past, his childhood..I see it as he knows what is required of him to do...but just like with Ben's tumor..we won't know for sure,he'll keep us guessing,until he surprises us,,and Jacob.
MEL
Neat, JT. Maybe the FDW and lighthouse are connected in a way that directs the FDW's turns.
My translation of the Japanese was fairly literal. I tend to use the original meanings of words more than an English equivalent for a phrase. But like I said I don't really have experience anyway. Though I have survived Japan a few times now. ;)
@Sterling the red temple building was the one they used for Sun/Jin's wedding, which is apparently supposed to be on Sun's father's property.
Like 2costa says it's likely that the Lighthouse was NOT critical to bringing anybody else to the Island - like Jacob says, they'll "find a way" (I don't think it's a question of "finding" it).
It does seem like the interpretation of that early promo photo as possibly being significant is true. Looks like the "sides" are breaking down as per the division of the err "Lost Supper" table.
Isn't the point of the Flash Sideways largely that while MOST of these people's destinies and characters remain the same, they're able to BREAK OUT of the cycle of their lives? Locke is overcoming his "handicap"/seeing it in a different light and accepting Helen's love; Jack has problems with his son, but has a break through with him and is honest about his feelings; Kate is on the run, but STOPS running to help someone. Hurley is no longer a victim of "destiny", perhaps particularly significant in light of how he's stopped being the one who questions things; not only is he letting Jacob lead him around by the nose, but he's lying (and getting better at it!), which is something he's pretty rarely done. It is DEFINITELY not a mistake that he doesn't freak about the numbers!
With Alice and all the mirrors . . . I'm wondering if the sideways flashes are, to some extent, a stage play leading up to a decision being made. Someone has to give up that life they're seeing as if through a mirror (somewhat distorted by events on the island) in order to save it? Well we have been told that the Sideways reality is just as legit, so I'm not sure. But I feel the Island is somehow a lynchpin in reality - the one thing we can be relatively sure of is that MIB is a liar (regardless of his motives!) and that if he says the Island ISN'T important, there's a good chance the exact opposite is true.
I am relieved that I'm not the only one who noticed Jin's boxers. I do NOT look for these things, I just notice!
Anne
I would agree with you on the characters in the FS except for Kate. I honestly don't see much change in her (yet). She stoppedf and helped Ray out of the burning truck when she was being chased by the Marshal in Tabula Rasa which is the mirror episode of What Kate Does. Even though the title would suggest What Kate Did.
I've been thinking since LA X that a choice is going to have to made between the time lines. And Jack will be the one who will have to make the choice.
SG, I agree. Jack seems to be the most thrown off by inconsistencies in the FS compared to the others. Things like the appendectomy scar and not remembering having his appendix out. He seems to be the focal point.
First thought now I've watched the episode is, not more questions !
If the mirror breaking scene was in an ABC promo that would really really suck.
The interns are at it again.
I liked the subtle references in this episode, but come on, more questions, more mysteries ?
So the bad thing that is going to the temple is Claire + FLocke.
Are we going to have a smokey smack down.
Do we now call the FS the mirrorverse (MV) ?
zort
Yep Jack breaking the mirrors was in the promo after the show last week. Then was run during the week up to the show as usual.
FS = mirrorverse (MV). That could work, I think it's pretty acruate anyway.
I don't mind more questions. I think I would be bored if all I was getting were answers and I think the questions we're getting will be answered.
I like mysteries. Mysteries are fun. That's one of the reasons I've continued to watch the show.
I've never acutually expected to figure this mystery out before the end but it's fun trying to, that's the whole point or any mystery.
When you think you've got something figured out and it takes a twist and you're wrong. It makes you think and reconsider. Then when you get to the end of the mystery and if you haven't figured it out yet, you step back and say why didn't I see that all along? Then feel wow that was enjoyable. jmo anyway. :)
it would be cool if they showed us what locke really saw when he looked into the heart of the island and thought it was beautiful...
now that i see the new candidate list with so many others on it, i'm back to thinking ben and smokey engineered the death of many of them, whether working together or not.
ethan godspeed basically sent him on suicide mission
goodwin stanhope same
pryce,friendly, pickett were all sent into ambush
all the 815'ers had targets on their backs
the french team got a smokey smackdown.
perhaps we have been looking at the valanzetti equation in the wrong way. Perhaps it isn't the valanzetti numbers that make the candidates special. Maybe jacob was trying to show or tell which ones HAD to live in order to avert doomsday, any other number candidates that live are just gravy. So it's the people that make the numbers special.
do we know what number the wheel was on before they moved it?
i also wonder who number 1 is or 0?
maybe desmond is 0 and thats why he is so differnt and special. Zero has properties like no there number in our numbers system based on quantities of 10
1 is very unique too and would work, but zero is intriguing...
i also wonder if in the 1950's widmore was wearing the shirts with candidates names on them to fool somebody or for protection?
I had a thought about the why there are two different lists of names--one in the lighthouse and one in the cave.
Maybe Jacob is using the list in the lighthouse to keep track of potential "candidates". And maybe MIB is using the list in the cave to keep track of potential "recruits".
Interesting BH13.
I agree with you about mysteries SG, I think that's why I got sucked into Lost so much right from the beginning. :-)
A consideration:the motif of “ Chains” thru out LOST..Chains and shackles on the skeletons inside Black Rock,,referring to slaves Kate in handcuffs and chains..,,Jacks entanglement with the chains while held at the Hydra..Sawyer doing in Cooper with chains...whats her face jumping over the side of the freighter while in chains..heck maybe even in the “ sound” of Smokie chains rattling, a chain that pulled Julie to the detonator and the references in season 6 to Alpert being free of chains,,and then the chainsof the Mirror in the Lighthouse..But projected.. Jack breaks the chains of Father/Son antagonistic relationships..stops the fear,,with some Love. Jack sits on the cliffs contemplating this LOVE while he takes in the infinite of the Ocean…Seems to me..linkes of Love ought to be forged thru the Losties.Perhaps Claires “ friend” has already started on that..
yea..jins underwear,,very " different",,there are hints of color coding these characters in season six..yes?..but..if you noticed jins underwear,,then you also noticed something about jack..what its gotto do with anythin I don't kno,,but they definitely let us see.
MEL
One other random thought:
I found it interesting that in the lighthouse mirrors, we saw buildings, but not people.
It makes me wonder: if this is what Jacob saw in the mirrors, how would he know which specific person in that location is the candidate? Many people may live in a house or attend a church.
And, could this have anything to do with the fact that only last names are written down on the lists? (Probably not, but I just felt like throwing that out there.)
A good mystery keeps you guessing until the end and then you say "Wow, didn't see that coming, but now it all makes sense." That is my hope for May 23rd!
Do you become what you are through heredity, or environment? DNA,or osmosis? Jack's sister, after living in the jungle for three years with her Father,and her "friend",has now become:
Dr.O'Quinn;Bad Medicine Woman.
I'm guessing that one of the purposes of the flash-sideways is to give us their take on this issue.
The sideways characters are the same genetically (we think) as the island characters. Yet some appear to be relatively the same, and some are definitely very different.
By "their" I meant Darlton's perspective.
lol Dr. Quinn bad medicine woman.
Acutually she hasn't been living with her father for 3 years. She's been living with Smokey pretending to be her father for 3 years. And not fLocke has become her friend. At least that's my take on it.
And now not,not...
Claire seemed to indicate that her father and her friend/MIB were two different people. If this is ture, we got one potential answer: Christian was not a physical manifestation of MIB. Maybe he's an infected zombie also, just like Claire presumably is and Sayid may become.
Today when I was writing up my blog post for the ep, it occured to me that Jack didn't even say anything about his own sister when Kate was professing her goal to save her, which is weird. Especially after Dogen just told him that she went over to the dark side. Wouldn't Dr.I-Can-Save-Everyone care about her at all, even if he did have his doubts about the infection story? I guess that Jack just doesn't care about his own sister, even though he could have bit his own lip off in purple Jackface when he first found out about her at CS's funeral. :-o
You have to wonder in the last scene what Jin is thinking when Claire says this isn't John. Another one of those- is this true or is this person crazy moments- for him.
@ Anne- no criticism of your translation intended- I think it's terrific that you can do it. Just wondered if the other one made sense to you too.
2 Costa- I wondered if the cave was MIB's too- especially since we see him underground so much. He seems to have been trapped as smokey for a long while though, so I don't know how he could write the names- seems he couldn't read books (like Mice and Men).
blueheron13
I think Claire belives that her father and MIB and two different people. I'm just not sure that they are.
capcom
I'm not sure Jack believes he can save anyone anymore. It was pretty easy for Kate to stop him doing CPR on Sayid. He's been told about the darkness but I don't think he feels he has a way to fix it. He told Hurley he came back to the island because he was broken and thought it could fix him.
SG,
Good point. Until we see Christian and MIB together at the same time, I shouldn't jump to conclusions.
Mel, you've just had me skim through the episode staring in Jack's nether regions but apart from feeling a bit 'wrong' about this, didn't pick up on the 'something' you refer to. Unless that he is blue of course, which he is.
Smokey has been represented as having three heads. It is possible therefore that Christian and Flocke are 2 manifestations of this? Titus Welliver may have just been the first manifestation? I have been thinking that MIB is perhaps like Khattam-Shud, the villan in Haroun and the Sea of Stories (seen being read by Des on FS 815), who changes his shadow into an autonomous replica of himself, does the same to several of his assistants, and creates a massive ark out of shadow, where his shadow-men synthesise "anti-stories" by which to ruin all the stories ever composed and construct a plug by which to clog the Source of Stories below the ship. Rousseau's science team and Claire were turned into shadow-men.
So which are the anti-stories? Which of our stories were ruined? Des seems to be the only one in Island time who ended up with the happy fairytale ending...but then he pulled the plug. Just a thought in progress...
True SG, but I mean, doesn't he even care about his sister? Whether or not he's the one who helps her, to me he's acting like he didn't even find out about Claire being his sister. No biggie, it's just some girl on the plane.
P.S. Especially after he b*tches to Kate that she's not even Aaron's family, presumably that he is more family to Aaron that she is. I dunno, it's just weird to me that TPTB have completely dropped the issue for Jack now.
SG- Yes, it seems that Jack's development must include letting go of the obsession to fix. Especially to fix himself to meet the expectations of his father. In the f/side he has stopped the cycle with his son- telling him that he will always accept him. Now if he will just accept himself.
futureself- 3 headed - Cerberus-as in the CV vent- the three headed dog?
We need Ilana to give us the definitive rules about MIB's shapeshifting abilities!
Actually, I have a hunch Ilana is red shirt this week.
Is that wishfull thinking Amy?;)
I don't think they'd bring in a new character that seems to have the potential to give alot of answers and kill her off before we get those answers.
@SG, they did that for Bram. And yes, wishful thinking. There are what, 10 episodes left? I don't care about learning anything more about Ilana, with so much other stuff left.
JT - yes, but not literally. I suppose I am suggesting that that the character of MIB and Smokey may be split, be it two or three times. Perhaps a result of of trying to consciously exist simultaneously in two or more timelines? But the comparisons between MIB and Khattam-Shud as the destroyer of creativity shutting down the imagination and bringing the story to an abrupt end I think is fair. MIB doesn't see the point in Jacob continuing the story by bringing people to the Island. He's bored with it. He sees nothing new in story...'it all ends the same'. He wants silence. He wants to go home...return to the stars...to stardust...for the world to stop turning. They say there have only ever been 7 basic plots in the history of stories (ah the number 7 appears again...it's been following me). Does MIB believe he has heard them all? There is nothing new? Perhaps that's why he didn't read Steinbeck. He's heard it before. The Island is therefore an analogy for the spark of creativity. It can heal. It can frighten. It can inspire. It does need to be protected.
Amy
I don't think we're really meant to get to know her or invest in her. I think she's just a tool to give us some mythological answers.
Oh, here are the 7 basic plots, as argued by British literary critic Christopher Booker:
1. 'Tragedy'. Hero with a fatal flaw meets tragic end. Macbeth or Madame Bovary.
2. 'Comedy'. Not necessary laugh-out-loud, but always with a happy ending, typically of romantic fulfilment, as in Jane Austen.
3. 'Overcoming the Monster'. As in Frankenstein or 'Jaws'. Its psychological appeal is obvious and eternal.
4. 'Voyage and Return'. Booker argues that stories as diverse as Alice
in Wonderland and H G Wells' The Time Machine and Coleridge's The Rime of the Ancient Mariner follow the same archetypal structure of personal development through leaving, then returning home.
5. 'Quest'. Whether the quest is for a holy grail, a whale, or a kidnapped child it is the plot that links a lot of the most popular fiction. The quest plot links Lords of the Rings with Moby Dick and a thousand others in between.
6. 'Rags to Riches'. The riches in question can be literal or metaphoric. See Cinderella, David Copperfield, Pygmalion.
7. 'Rebirth'. The 'rebirth' plot - where a central character suddenly finds a new reason for living - can be seen in A Christmas Carol, It's a Wonderful Life, Crime and Punishment and Peer Gynt.
@SG, possible, but that's the kind of writing that annoys me. If you're going to put a character on my TV screen, make them a 3D character. Otherwise, use a prop.
the only thing missing from Dogen this episode was the Texan accent...lol
Going on Mel's advice I have been trying to take some steps back from the detail of Lost all day. I may have stepped back to far, but I see Story at the centre of Lost. All the details, the myths, the books, the films, the music, the replaying of the story is central to the plot. As I have found, you can get Lost in the details because the very thread of the Lost tapestry is story layered upon story. Jacob is working towards completing THE Story, which must be about a satisfactory resolution to all of the seven stories above. MIB, perhaps paradoxically because he has been written into the story as the monster and therefore one of the Seven Plots, does not want this. He wants to find the loophole that unravels the whole tapestry into just a pile of thread.
Anne- I like the way you describe breaking out. Kind of like "if you can't change the situation, change the way you look at it".
MEL- the chains thing is interesting...I had never noticed so many...which of those chains was Alpert in?
Maven et All... I hope it's got a spin that none of us guessed, but it completely satisfactory!
Nice list Futureself!
BTW, if anyone's interested, over on the Eye-M-Sick blog a poster named Abeyer42 has the most credible theory yet about who was in the outrigger shooting at the FBs, due to certain props in this week's ep. It's strictly speculation and absolutely NOT a spoiler, but if you don't want to even know that I'll skip down a few lines and write it backwards
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erialcdnabim
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His(?) reasons for thinking this are very interesting. If you can't find his post, I'll copy/paste some here later. I don't know if anyone else has guessed this yet, I haven't read too many blogs on this ep yet.
Capcom, thanks for the suggestion re: eye-m-sick blog. I like that theory a LOT, actually.
Like it, too. Didn't Clousseau mention she was shot in the leg and she stitched herself up!
Yep she did, and I didn't even catch all that stuff. And here I've been only complaining that the dialogue with her and Jin was clunky, blahblah, I'm such an idgitt!.
:-o
Amy, soon Bigmouth and Wayne will post their takes on the ep, which is always pretty funny. Bigmouth lets everyone comment on the ep while they get their posts written. BTW, Wayne Allen Sallee is an award-winning, um, horror/detective/mystery/crime writer from Chicago.
I thought Claire had pointed to her stomach but I've heard/read several people say leg so I guess it was her leg.
I was thinking maybe she and Sayid had similar wounds.
Yeah, that would be interesting, including Li'l Ben who was shot almost in the same place as Sayid! Just a little higher.
okay.. I brought it up so..i have to own up to it...while Jack was checking out his appendix scar it was obvious that Jack also trims the hedge around the ole lighthouse. Whats up with that?..Hes a model during off hours? Hes trendy?
And as to color codes..yea.. Jack is Blue.. very sad and confused with all the failures..Hurley in red and green..opposites on the color wheel, Irony itself..but remember ,,opposites on a color wheel always produce grey when mixed..which Kate sports in her fashionable T shirt attire..Dogen in classic LOST Black and White ..and the not so Jolly Giant showing up in Green,,fecund, fertile , growth , healthy, GREEN whenever he decides to de smokify himself and be Locke. I'm just sugesting to keep an eye on all that. Yellow or Ochers for Jin,,with black boxer shorts..very strange. Confusion?
Nice list of plotlines, and as suggested,, one can probably see all of them in LOST..suggesting perhaps Lost's Plot is outside the box of the List. Plot as Illusion, and truthful reality somewhere else has always worked for me when viewing this show. I mean..an alternate title for this show would be Swiss Cheese if the Plot was to be taken seriously. No,, the truthful reality of this show is in what it evokes from the beholder. The out of the box Plot of LOST is what and how we are brought to Feel in each episode. From bodies all over the beach, to Charlie hangin from the banyun tree, to...well all the emotions you were brought to deal with by watching LOST..and just to make the point easier and more unforgettable,,yeaaa,,an axe to the midsection delivered by sweet,,ditzy Claire..Magnificent! As Breton put it..Beauty will be convulsive or it isn't at all. We are the Plot.
MEL
Maybe I'm taking too many liberties, but it seems that Claire blames the "others" /temple people for her being shot... didn't Sawyer fire the shot we might be referring to?
Juliet.
d'ya think we'll ever understand Hurley's nickname?
I always thought it was because he had a weak stomach.
TAV- thanks... i was 50/50 on which of them fired and which paddled! That makes the "others" responsible...regardless of Juliette's "conversion"
Then again, Claire knew Juliet's name. There's no reason for her not to say Juliet unless she couldn't see who shot her.
AL- good point! and claire was aware of juliette's break from the others... (but, OTOH, she doesn't remember where she left her baby.... )
I thought there was more than one person in the outrigger at the time,but it was kind of far away.
Well... we're also making assumptions that that's when she means too.... good assumptions perhaps, but assumptions all the same!
I don't think that was when she was shot though.You are right Otherlisa; Remember when we assumed that John Locke, was John Locke?
Oh how silly we can be! ;-)
Its funny- unanswered questions mean we each can be right in our own minds- answered ones...well, they limit those possibilities!! Don't they? Thankfully, the writers have better ideas than I!
@futureself The idea of stories following specific cycles drove me bonkers in middle school. I'm more able to handle it now. But I like your idea - and Jacob's tapestry takes on a new meaning, doesn't it? It makes me think of an idea I was quite fascinated by in Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus (likely to be somewhat lost in the film, I think) . . . not really a spoiler, near the beginning we are shown monks in a Tibetan-type temple high in the mountains, whose task it is to eternally tell a story; a story that keeps the universe from blinking out of existence. I like the idea of, as I said earlier, the island being a lynchpin in reality; but if it's the source of creation, and we have one side who is a creator and one a destructor . . . hmm, that might be a bit too tidy in some ways. Still unsure. Is Jacob trying to get our folks to write their own stories, or write it for them? Seems a bit of both. Well, as we've been told before, everyone answers to someone - maybe Jacob's not really in charge? Ah I'm not sure where I'm going with this yet XD
@TheOtherLisa - we were also given this point in LU. It has to do with development as a human being - the ability to have an internal locus of control. "I am not the victim of fate/the actions of others, because I am in control of my reactions to them". Not that my folks are psychologists or anything :X
Similar wounds may be a necessary coincidence - there are only so many places you're likely to get shot that won't kill you.
If the group in one outrigger couldn't see who was shooting at them, then the reverse was likely true. Claire probably couldn't have seen who was shooting either. (Unless Claire/MIB had the sun at their backs, which I dont' recall being the case.) If ANY of that was the case, lol.
@MEL so Jin's boxers show us that he's all practicality on the outside, and all love on the inside? ;)
Maven, Capcom, Memphish and now me...I, too, am really burnt out on research and ready for the answers. I just can't seem to muster up the enthusiasm I once had for it all. I think depression is setting in. After all, it is ending. After 5+ years, I seem to be finding more questions than answers and I don't think there will be time to answer all the ones I'd like to see answered. Oh well, it's been a terrific ride for sure! I'll be here 'til the bitter-sweet end!
xxoo
You guys are really depressing me. I was really looking forward to discussing the final season with the great group of people I've come to know over the years. Now everyone's suddenly tired of it.
BTW I haven't read eyemsick's blog post. That why capcom put the clue the way she did for people who didn't want to know.
typo in last posts.
Sayid's Girl -- you've become a serial poster.
Sorry I've been absent over here. The creators choices re the X verse have left me glass half empty with the show and I'm trying not to post to keep my negativity out of the interwebs.
Warning a negative diatribe will now follow.
I've been talking (via fingers) with some who are very much enjoying the X verse and viewing it the way I think the creators intend, as character development and growth. Maybe it's because I'm older and don't get a chance to relive my 20s and 30s with choices so different that I have a college freshman and/or a newborn (instead of my real 10 year old), but I'm very disconnected from these character stories. The thing about LOST I fell in love with was my ability to place myself in the story of a group of people who crashed on an Island and had to find a way to live with one another and survive. Do overs just don't sit well with me, and the fact that I'm watching 2, 2, 2 shows in one each week leaves me meh.
In my life right now I'm in the process of raising a child to learn to make good choices and live with the consequences of them. Seeing that these people essentially don't have that problem feels like a cheat from the hard work of living to me. As for the feel good X stories they are also falling short for me because I don't really care that X-Jack, a character I've spent about 30 minutes with gets the father-son thing right, I care if Island Jack, a character I've spent 5 years with gets it right. And the farther we go, the less I feel like the way the Verses tie together is going to feel real and meaningful to me.
Back to being Debbie Downer at home, alone.
@memphish, interesting perspective. I, myself, am enjoying the FS far more than the stuff on the island. Not sure why that is.
Thanks AmyLynn. Lost has never been everything to everyone. In a way it's interesting how divisive this season has been. LOST has infamously been able to turn things on their heads for me, my now love of Sawyer and Jin being foremost among them. I'm still hoping that will be the case for S6 as well.
im only going to like the sideays if they tie it in with the other 5 seasons, it needs some kind of twist like the movie angel heart
Well I'm loving all aspects of it. Memph, I don't think that FS is showing that their actions have no consequences. Charlie is still messed up. Jack's marriage still failed (although he got a kid and a healthier liver this time around). But Island time still exists and their actions have still affected everything they touch. How the two world collide (as I assume they must) remains to be seen, but don't loose faith at this stage about the ramifications of this new perspective. I can understand that you got on board with the original characters but this is not re-writing completely new character traits. And we still have 13 episodes to go. We are less than a third of the way through so tons of good stuff still to come.
like the personal growth is a red herring and it is really the bad alternative reality...some could say that embracing"tell me what i can't do" and the creature comforts of romantic love and denying your destiny to save or change the world or believe the impossible is possible is the real tragedy. You could saythat helen is to locke as heroin is to charlie. We wouldn't really think the sideways was a success if charlie denied his destiny and embraced the fact that he will never kick heroin. Hurley is content in the sideways, but being a millionaire isn't so great if the world is going to end...
to go with my thoughts on the study this season of the nature of "home" and the parallel of our soul's home being our body. I think our name is tied to that.
Locke to jack, you didn't lose your father you lost his body
mib to sawyer, this isn't your home you just lived her a few years.
this isn't your name u just used it for a while,i.e. sawyer henry gayle
i think the lighthouse only seeing locations ties to that.
jack got an alias this week and it was "dad"
i highly doubt that is jack's kid with sara. he is way too old, jack would have had to concieve him when he was an undergrad...just like desmond may be married to the girl he left at the alter
did you guys see brother campbell appears to be a candidate
I'm a wondering if Mr axe me no questions, I'll tell you no lies,,is going to be claimed by SchmookleLocke..Otherwise hes a maggot magnet..So Claire be movin on..Weird it is...that Jin has a paddle,,but no creek.
MEL
if the others are jacob's recruits and it took one of them to kill jacob, i can see mib's recruits being able to kill mib. He may have been bluffing sawyer into trying to shoot him, but more likely you need to use the blade that ben used to kill jacob, that's why smokey secured it from ben so quickly after he killed jacob.
Another thing i was thinking is that perhaps miles was meant to be jacob's mouthpiece after death, but he has no corpse so miles couldn't do it or mib burned him for that reason. So hurley became jacob's plan b, that's why hurley wasn't touched until after the 06 escaped the island...sayid is also an after thought to the original plan
if the others are jacob's recruits and it took one of them to kill jacob, i can see mib's recruits being able to kill mib. He may have been bluffing sawyer into trying to shoot him, but more likely you need to use the blade that ben used to kill jacob, that's why smokey secured it from ben so quickly after he killed jacob.
Another thing i was thinking is that perhaps miles was meant to be jacob's mouthpiece after death, but he has no corpse so miles couldn't do it or mib burned him for that reason. So hurley became jacob's plan b, that's why hurley wasn't touched until after the 06 escaped the island...sayid is also an after thought to the original plan
I totally empathize with you Memphish. That's a good way to put it, about being more concerned with the Jack we've known for 5 years, than the Jack we've only known for a few hours. I'd like to hear/see some of the arguments in favor of the FSs, it might help me come around. Meanwhile, I'm trying to trust TPTB and that eventually some kind of lightbulb will go on in my head and I'll see the point of it all as they converge/course-correct towards the end. I'm guessing that some of our "malaise" is also a part of the process here as we wind down to the final solution of this complicated tale. :-)
Although I do think that TPTB have done some work in showing the consequences of people's bad choices in many cases, except for the storylines of some characters ::cough!Kate!cough:: who keep on thinking that they can do whatever they want without owning up to the responsibilities and judgements they've earned. And some are more subtle or on the cusp, like Ben for instance, he's not repentant until recently but we all know he's made a miserable life for himself up to this point. And everything that's good in his life has been taken away from him and deservedly so.
Someone at EyeMSick also mentioned that they think that Jack's scar was only seen in the mirror, and not in direct shots. I don't know about that, but maybe I'll get around to backing up the VHS tape and checking that out unless someone quicker gets to it before me. :o)
Cap, The scar is very faint anyway but it looks like it is there in non-mirrored shots as well.
if mib always planned on stroming the temple with feral claire all the way back to christain at the fire, then mib knew exactly what was gonna happen with kate and aaron.
ben being super surprised when locke told him jin had survived the frieghter just makes me think that ben had some notion of how the timeline or at least the last iteration played out. Let's not forget jin finding the temple for sayid is important this season.
perhaps sawyer was infected long ago by one of his wounds,namely the one he got from the tailys.
locke had his face scar almost right away and has been batty since season one.
im thinking that maybe you can kill a candidate without breaking the rules if you dont know about candidates or the rules. So actually jacob is empowering his followers by not telling them everything, where as flocke is slowly telling everyone everything about the island to make them more captive and shackled by the rules.
sometimes too much information rob's you of free will instead of informing it. Like the idea that a vulcan who reaosns everything out usually isn't a risk taker.
capcom memphis i think the two realities will be woven like the startrek next generation series finalee
Morning! I'm still loving everything about this show...even the FS....which I believe show what would have been if our Losties were never touched and manipulated by Jacob and the island. I'm just slightly burnt out and just want to savor/enjoy/accept each episode...having trust that Darlton know what they're doing and they are telling their story which will all come together on May 23rd. Hopefully, it will be an ending we can all feel satisfied with.
And maybe some of us are sort of "weening" ourselves off this crazy obsession so that by May 23rd we will be ready to let go and move on.
Interesting idea, maven, but the way this season has been going so far, I suspect there's going to be a LOT of disappointed fans.
I'm glad some are enjoying the "what might have been" but it's falling very flat for me. Guess you can tell "It's A Wonderful Life" is not one of my favorite movies.
Ah Meph! It's a Wonderful Life is one of my favourite films (in the top 20 probably).
But seriously, each season has taken on a different flavour and not everyone's going to enjoy the taste (Apollo bars, ranch dressing, peanut butter and boar are not for all). However, as there are still 13 dishes left, hopefully something will tickle your buds and and leave you salivating for more. Perhaps you'll skip a few dishes in this grande bouffe but hopefully we'll all feel satisfied by the end (I'm hoping we'll all come away with a doggy bag too)!
LOL Memphish.
I didn't see the ST:TNG last ep! Mabye I'd better. Well, I guess that I could think of it in terms of the new ST movie, but that kind of ticked me off as well, haha. :-B
I'd be happier if we had gone the route of the new Star Trek movie, scrapping one reality for another. It's the use of both that has me unsatisfied due to the currently hidden nature of their relationship. I never saw any Next Generation.
I am hanging in there. I'll be out of town in 2 weeks, and given the current state of things I'll just wait until I get home to catch that episode. I hope next week will reignite the fire, but if it doesn't, I'm getting ok with that too.
Perfect analogy Futureself! :-D
Well that's what bothered me about the ST movie, that now ST:TOS is all undone and never existed?! But someone told me no, now there are two ST universes for that era. Oy.
Memphish- think about this, what if "what might have been" really is the reality that shouldn't have been? That's still a very real possibility.
I've had enough "life" to reflect of the "what ifs" that seem so much better... wouldn't have protected me from all the tough love and learning that help me move on... I have to believe there's ultimate good and growth in that... reinvention is a gamble, with or without an island.
So... I'm game, come what may...
That could well be TOL, but then doesn't that mean that they've wasted our time showing us stuff that not only wasn't, but shouldn't have been?
My pea-brain is having a hard time finding equal validity in each existence. It seems to me one is real and one isn't, but they keep telling me that's not the right way to look at it. I can't get how both can be real and valid, especially without going down the road that essentially every possible universe exists. And that multi-verse view doesn't jive with my world and life view, so it rubs me the wrong way.
Doesn't mean it's right or wrong, it's just the way it rubs me. I usually love how LOST makes me react emotionally, even when they are way out in left field. Maybe discomfort is where I should be. If so, I'm right there with them. :-)
BTW, thanks everyone for chiming in in this discussion. Discussing LOST is even more fun for me than watching LOST. I appreciate everyone's respect of ideas, even crazy ones.
Why are we all so certain that the FS universe is a "do-over" or a universe without Jacob's intervention?
I wouldn't be disappointed in the contents of your Christmas box until you've opened it.
(I'm really tired so that's all I've got right now lol. Having the reno guys here before 7AM every day wailing on the wall next to mine isn't working out well for me hah.)
I can't ignore that Jack,,Mr Science, Logic and Reason...was out gathering wool in the clouds while on the plane,,when he admitted to having it all wrong on the Island...Perhaps some advice for the logical viewer of LOST..?
Now..at end of another Jack episode,,we leave him on the cliffs,,out gathering wool , over the ocean,,but this time the bonds to his past have been shattered. I think the part of jack trying to get young David to understand, the part..I just want to be part of your life,,to me that seems most important. Seeing, being, beyond ones self. Subtle hint to let it all go,,try seeing everything as just the opposite of what you believe. Not that, that is the answer to any mystery,,but just that the process may bring you to a 3rd reality or 3 rd option.A interesting property of LOVE?,,and it appears jack is again, thinking it all over on the cliffs there. Jacobs self assuredness comes across as cocky and a bit insulting to Hurley. I suspect..Jake cannot even conceive what jack is putting together in his mind.I also can see that LockeKong is already there where jack is gathering wool.
MEL
That could well be TOL, but then doesn't that mean that they've wasted our time showing us stuff that not only wasn't, but shouldn't have been
Its not wasted, perhaps, if it helped someone learn to appreciate and "accept" what is/who they are? Ex. I thought if I just did this, had that, etc... things would be 'better' (what is better?) and they weren't.... Discomfort (pain) etc. has seemed to be the hinge point of a turn around...Dunno... just trying to create some interesting possiblities to fuel fires!
Sorry if I missed this in earlier comments, but do we have any idea what Jack has to do? Do we think he has a clue?
i don't think we/or he knows... but if "we" do I don't, and I need help too!
Ha ha, me too. The most logical thing seems like some showdown with MIB/Locke, but Jacob got him away from the temple and what I assume is the upcoming showdown.
I wish I had a felt board of the Island and could move my groups of people around to see who is where at any given moment. Think there might be a LOST felt board with felt characters somewhere out there for purchase?
@memphish bets on whether the Lost writers' room has, at some point, gone war-room style with an Island map and little metal pieces? (You always have to move them with one of those stick things, even if you can reach)
Of course they probably had to use Monopoly pieces or something.
..to answer the question,,what has jack got to do?..consider the answer ...I just want to be part of your life...LOVE,,the process of Unification..becoming Whole..
This is how it is that I see the ' real " reality of season 6 as a Projection into the future,,thinking ahead,,creating a future( not the future itself)...We've seen kate and Locke pretty much come to an " answer" all very much in association with Love. Jack too now. Keep an eye on it is all I can suggest.
Locke's dead in a hole. Not much of an answer there. And that in sum is my problem with the 2 universes.
no..no..Locke in wheel chair..not Lockezilla of the Island..If you still are wrapped around the axle about crabfoodLocke..hes dead..Not Universes,,but ways of perceiving and thinking..The eternally frustrated John Locke of the Island is as you say..dead.But..LockeKong is around as is Johnny Wheelchair. Those two are close to becoming One.
MEL
I just don't buy that. I agree that's where they may be going that these characters are the sum of their universal parts, but I don't like it or agree with it as a world and life view.
I guess what I'm saying is..no..there is only One Universe. Its just a matter of one deciding to live in it as conflicted,,torn apart by the play of opposites, in side the Universe..or decide to use the opposites to rise above the conflicts to a Unified, Whole existence ,in harmony with the One universe.
If redemption is the goal for these Losties..there really is no choice.
MEL
Hmmm. That doesn't look like the show I'm watching. Looks like 2 clearly different universes. While I agree that as people we must learn to live as a unified whole, in a show that's pointing out to me explicitly look Jacob touched these people in case you forgot, that idea seems extremely nuanced.
Memph, I understand why you don't buy it because it is very Capra.
In 'It's a Wonderful Life', when Clarence takes George back to see what Bedford Falls if he didn't exist and George stumbles across his brothers grave (who had been a War hero in George's world but died here because George wasn;t around to save him when he was a boy). The entire film is about the imprint one person can make on the world.
And indeed that seems to me what Jacob is trying to make Jack realise (but perhaps in reverse/sideways...well different to our Capra model anyway). He needs to recognise that he is important and that 'he has what it takes'. Jacob does like to push....but he's all about self belief:
'I've got some news for you, Hugo, and you're just gonna have to take my word on this. You are not crazy'.
So perhaps FS is just about being aware of your potential...your place in the world...and meeting that potential.
But I understand the frustration of those who don't want this to just be an analogy. It has to make sense and have meaning. Hopefully it will, but whereas before S6 I felt like not knowing the end to lost would be the worst thing ever, I now feel
satisfied with it's direction (I'm still crazy about seeing the ending, just more content with the play).
..I'll be the first one to say..that when I go shopping, I don't buy everything in the store. Like, when every girl friend I've ever had, answers the question, "what are you shopping for?" with, "I'll know it when I see it!" Well, I see surrealism all over this show. I mean,,what is Frank Capra, about the opening eye motif? What is Capra about the juxtaposition of Polar bears on a tropical Island? What show am I watching??? I'm watching a show that throws one completely unrealistic exaggeration thing at me after another.Non stop. Human Beings Do Not survive a plane coming apart at 30k , 10 k or 5 k feet,,or which ever presentation of the " event" you decided to go with..Point being..there is no Truth in what is being presented..It is not logical nor reasonable..so, to me,,that heavily suggests abandoning Logic and reason,,and the expectation of any answers, based on questions rooted in logic and reason.
The Jack of season 6 admits defeat..but he doesn't know what to substitute Logic and reason with. How could he? He figures it out,,the one thing he didn't get from dear ole dad,,Love. Now he sits on the cliffs contemplating the repercussions of that..The Ocean is pretty big. For 5 years I've offered the Surreal view of this show. I am fulfilled and brought to joy watching this show. Season 6 continues bringing me fulfillment and joy. I am extremely grateful that such a TV show has been on shelves at the store. I've bought in to it big time. With results like that,,why in the world would I abandon those results,,for disappointment and let down? I'm trying to share this . Its more real than a Polar Bear on a tropical Island. If ya can't buy into ..then ..oh well..could be the currency you are using..In any case..the results you are left with are the consequences of the way you perceive the show. Its not the show,, its the way you see it. I mean.. i'm watching the same show as anybody else..but at end of episode,,I'm pretty happy and with few questions. So it ain't the show..its the way its being perceived.
There is no fault in not liking what you end up with. But rather than stopping there,,being satisfied with the dis..you can search for the uplifting. Also..it doesn't matter if you agree with the " world View" or not..but to simply be satisfied with let down and not at least try to understand ..shoot..that was Jacks lesson in the Light House. The key is under the rabbit.
MEL
Abandon all hope ye who enter with reason and logic?
by jove!..i think you've got it!!
MEL
And you're absolutely right! Girl can accept polar bears on tropical islands and time skipping but not mysterious teenage sons in X-verses and people still refusing to ask or answer questions. :-) What show am I watching?
Its all in the senses..how this show makes you " feel"..Thats why all the realistic beard stubble and swet stains and greasy hair and grim and gunk..The " feel" is real.
MEL
*Sometimes* the best creative works are the ones that drive you nuts. "The proportions are wrong in that painting!", "this story doesn't make sense!" Just because they challenge what you expect, which means they have the opportunity to EXCEED those expectations. Great works keep you up at night with your own frustrations (bad ones don't wind you up for long).
Of course I'm making no guarantee of that. Just what I hope for. I think these guys, for certain, knew going in that *especially* with the last season they had a lot on the line. Either they make one of the best television shows ever, or a phenomenal failure . . . (and that was likely to vary depending on the person.) Having met Damon before S6 started to air, he looked terrified, like he thought the fans would eat him if he failed! Pretty sure that won't happen no matter what?
They were definitely pointing something out to us with the inhaler and the cave skeletons - don't pay attention to this, it's trivial; forest for the trees. There's something else at the core of this beyond the surface mysteries.
All IMHO. Everyone is quite welcome to their frustration, and I do understand it even though I don't share it.
The key is indeed under the rabbit ;) You can see how deep the rabbit hole goes, just don't take the green pill. XD
I think there is a LOT of over-thinking in this thread! 360 timelines? SHEESH! So here's my take on things, post-Lighthouse. Feel free to clock in and shout me down / big me up as appropriate...
1. The Lighthouse. 360 names, 360 people who were/are potential candidates. The lighthouse looks like it was used to watch the people's lives, and through something we don't know yet, Jacob could leap in to those key moments and monkey about with them. I'm also guessing MIB could, too.
2. Widmore as a good guy? I agree. I like that he is helping Jacob, although perhaps he doesn't realise it. He wanted to be leader SO bad, that in sending Locke's corpse he may have hoped for an island return.
3. Crazy Claire - if you listened to the episode, she said her dad and friend had told her the others had her baby. Claire is the full result of what happens when a candidate becomes infected. We saw her with "christian" in the cabin. After filling her head with ideas, the infection lets her believe them as truth. I can only assume the parallels with Russo mean the same thing happened to her.
4. Christian. Where is his body? in the alternate timeline it can't be found, and on the island, we are reminded that Jack never found it. Yet smokey could manifest as Christian, meaning it is somewhere on the rock. But where?
5. Smokey = Christian. Stop over thinking it. Some things he can meddle with, others he can't. We don't have the info on why yet. But there is no "ghost Christian" and "evil christian", I don't think. Just smokey.
6. My money is on "Adam and Eve" being Jin and Sun, who may find themselves on opposite sides of the fight, but will find a way to be together. This may change, but they (the skellingtons) are clearly important, as this episode reminds us.
Agreed?
Anne, I heard something similar to your post on the latest Jay and Jack. The writer, I think it was, said that those of us who are frustrated are essentially in the same position as the characters. So to the extent I've always loved being able to place myself in the story, I'm right where I should be.
Overthinking Ben? What Lost fans?
Ben
What makes you think Widmore was the one who sent Locke's corpse?
When Locke told Widmore that Richard told him the only way he could get them to come back was if I died. In which Widmore replied. I don't know why he said that, but I'm not gonna let that happen.
Ben is the one who killed Locke. Then probably went to Hawking who told Ben Locke had to go back to the island. That is if Ben did't know that already.
I'm with you on Sun and Jin being Adam and Eve. I've thought there was something important about them since I heard Jin's wedding vows to Sun. "We will never be apart. Because being apart from you would be like the sky being apart from the earth."
Overthinging Lost. Hmmm What would be the fun of watching Lost if we didn't overthing it? Haven't we been doing that for over 5 years? ;)
I’ll be the first to say I hated the FS as much as anyone. I mean what’s the point right? I think the problem might have been they started off with a Kate episode that didn’t really seem to show much change in the character. But since these episodes are mirroring season 1 they had to do it that way. After the Locke FS and now the Jack one I can be more patient with them. I have no idea where they’re going with them so I’ll just focus on the island stuff. Which is what I usually do anyway. The FB,FF,FS give insight into the characters but to me what the characters do on the island is more exciting and fun. And yes even the beginning of season 3. :)
I heard an interesting theory on a podcast . There has always been two parallel time lines. The bomb did not create or split off into one of them. The time lines crossed over. This is why Jack doesn’t remember when he had his appendix out and his déjà vu moments. If this is the case then I don’t see how or why the time lines would merge. But this is Lost anything can happen.
I think you may be right memphish, that it might be a many universe scenario. I’m not sure why they would do that , but hey the did time travel. Which by the way you know I loved. :) I could be wrong but I don’t see the time lines merging. I have a feeling Jack is going to have to chose one. Jack seems to be the one having the déjà vu and the confused memories, not all of them ,so far anyway. I can’t quite figure out what’s going on there. At first I thought it was conscience time traveling like Desmond but them Jack wouldn’t be awake running around on the island. Anyway whatever it is I’ll go with it.
I'm along for the ride, I'm not gonna complain about the route. I'm enjoying the scenery. I just hope we don't hit any skunks along the way. :(
I think the Jack/Claire juxtaposition of light and dark makes it a good bet that Adam/Eve are Jack/Claire, but we'll see.
I am enjoying the comments here, tho. Everyone has such diverse perspectives, sometimes the discussion goes way over my head, but nevertheless I am really loving the broad range of approaches. Makes me work my brain!
Enjoy the weekend, LoCos. At least the sun is shining here in NY.
Totally off-topic, but it looks like Hawaii's about to be hit with a rather large sunami -- praying that all of the citizens, as well as the LOST cast and crew, stay safe.
Ben- I like the timelines coming 360 (full circle)- not numerically (I don't think like that) but like Anne said, as a psychological process.
Before reading you guys above, my $ would have been on Rose and Bernard being the stones- but I like your Sun and Jin ideas as well as Claire/Jack... we have a lot of opposites emerging.
Memphish- you sound better/more hopeful about all this???
Kate-haters- just embrace her for the well intentioned disaster that she is!!!! SG- maybe we need the FB/FF/FS to interpret the island actions...so they do serve a purpose, maybe only that, but I think there's more.
Hmm on there's always been 2 timelines ....think about Des--- he apparently "functioned" or at least didn't physically disappear in one timeline while being in another. Ex. When he flashed back in and out of calesthenics...no one "missed" him. He was always there, perhaps not doing as he was supposed to... but there physically. Maybe during Jack's appendectomy as a 7 year old, he was on the island? I thought about this in the last post--- maybe Desmond's time in jail is really Desmond's time in the hatch, his release corresponds....
Amused, how many inches are you snowed in by?
AL- the Chilean news coverage and threat to Hawaii and CA makes the snow in the NE seem like a blessing. Crazy... but I'm with you in prayer.
Good thoughts to those in Chile and also all those in the tsunami warning zone...especially all our good friends in Hawaii and the cast and crew.
I'll be attending the PaleyFest LOST panel tonight (7pm). Damon and Carlton and writers will be there as well as unannounced cast members. I know they will have Hawaii on their minds! I'm looking forward to this panel, but not getting in line while it's raining!!!
Stay safe, maven. I know they've issued some warnings for SoCal as well. Stay dry!
Jorge and Beth just posted to FB that they are headed toward higher ground.
Ryan Ozawa is keeping everyone up-to-date about what's happening in Hawaii, too!
Thanks, Amy Lynn...haven't heard too much about the west coast warnings. Hawaii is supposed to be a direct hit!
Carlton just tweeted to the crew that they should go to the studio for safety...
i was thinking there is a big hole in the sideways being a reality lacking jacob's touch. If the original and the sideways have the same past before 1977, which is probably true considering the barracks were on the underwater island. Then sawyer and kate both were touched by jacob before 1977 and would have still been touched by jacob in the sideways. the kwon, jack, locke, sayid, and hurley may or may not have been touched by jake in the sideways.
i guess we all all know more soon. the only way the sideways is a reality with out the touch of jacob is if the theory is right that the sideways somehow happened before the timeline we saw for 5 seasons, and probably more than one iteration before considering the swan film already featured an incident and one armed dr. chang. or jacob dying made him absent all at once in the sideways. like if jacob dies in the first time line then he never existed in the sideways
Thanks Amy and Maven for the updates. I had read that sea level around the islands off shore of Chile only rose like 4 ft or so..I have no idea how the physics of a tsunami works,,but can only hope that the distance from Chile to Hawaii dissipates the effects.
Maven..Thanks for the reminder of the Paley event.. I have submitted a question for the panelists..If it is asked,,you will know it.
MEL
AL- where do you guys get these tweets? (I'm still learning what on earth and how on earth to read them!)
@TOL
Damon's is twitter.com/damonlindelof
Carlton's is twitter.com/carltoncuse
Ryan's is twitter.com/hawaii
Thanks AL- I was feeling so left out and uneducated...hesitated to ask!
Anne
I have considered Rose and Bernard as Adam and Eve. Right now though I like Sun and Jin as them.
I think we’ll get our island FB/FF/FS when we catch up to Richard although I think it may be awhile.
I personally don’t hate any of the characters. That includes the most hated ones like Shannon and Ana Lucia. Once I seen their back stories it was easier to accept them right or wrong. Some character’s stories are better than others but that’s a writers thing.
Yes when Des was consciously time traveling his body would be in both place as his mind traveled back and forth between the different times. But he would be unconscious in whichever body his mind wasn’t in. This doesn’t seem to be happening to Jack in this scenario.
Hoping everyone in the path of the tsunami stays safe.
Warnings make all the difference in Tsunami threats. This time it will be different.The people in Chile didn't get a warning.My prayers go out for them;Tragedy sucks.
On a lighter note;Damon, and Carlton are in a real life timeline in which they don't know what will happen next.
Tstay tsafe to all our Pacific friends.
Hope to tweet some updates re PaleyFest Lost panel....I scored a Premium ticket and will be in the first 4 rows!
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