On tonight's episode: The way back to the island is revealed to members of the Oceanic 6, but there’s trouble ahead when not all of them wish to return.
Time to find out if Ben can make all of the Oceanic 6 play nice, or if he's going to have to turn that van around. Fasten those seat belts and let's go!
Wednesday, February 18, 2009
316 - Season 5, Episode 6
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-Jack changing Locke's shoes was very strong in Jesus symbology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_washing)
-The new Marshall and the shifty dude who gave his sympathies to Jack seem like they'll come to bear on the proceedings. Was wondering if Jack would hit on the lady at the bar in lieu of Ana Lucia.
-Ben at the docks is a "what's in the box" kind of scene for me. It's going to prove to be pretty ugly. Funny that the very next scene features the line, "What's in the bag?"
I would like to see what all the other numbers flipping around in the Lamp post station were. They certainly weren't the 4,8,15...numbers. Wonder if the numbers change now. don't know why they would, but it just wondering.
Noticed that the picture Hawkings had of the island was an army pic from 1953. I have a feeling she really is going to turn up as Ellie.
LOL, Scoutpost! I was thinking the same thing about that pendulum. It was almost like they were doing a dance with it! I half expected them to slip on that slick surface, too! LOL
Now, is Jack considered a "special" person to the island, too?
Also, the talk of all the parallels between getting on this flight and 815 is very well done. I guess things don't have to be exactly the same, just the idea of things (like someone must be under arrest, someone must be carrying a guitar case.
And good questions as to why Ben is on that flight. Who is he supposed to be representing?
Yeah I just don't like that Ben was on there and that no one stopped to even think about that. I think Ben was inserting himself somewhere he was not supposed to be and it is going to screw things up. Also, if they're back in DI times, then they better watch out- is Ben gonna purge everybody again?
And is Ben going to run into young Ben? Those 2 bunnies better not touch! LOL
Ben just can't stop with the lie's.
"My mother taught me"
Liar your mom died in childbirth.
Who am I kidding- I can't sleep.
So I'm wondering that if you've been to the island before and go back, you just flash back to the island- but if you've never been to the island before then you crash or shipwreck. Maybe the Ajira flight crashed on the island in a 2007 timeline or whatever timeline the FBer's came back to their camp and found the outriggers. Don't know if that would be possible. Also would mean that Frank and Ben would be in the same timeline as the O6.
Also, reposting this from the previous comment section:
I read something over on Erika's longliveLocke blog that gave me this thought: she pointed out the fact that Danielle's team had musical instruments with them. Other people have said that maybe to get to the island you have to have a dead body- i.e. Christian and Locke. So I am wondering if there is some island type world saving task that has to be carried out and until it is done, certain characters keep cycling around in time (like reincarnation) until it's done right/carried out. Then, every time a group comes to the island there will be a Jack prototype, a Locke prototype, a Charlie, a dead body, etc. Don't know, just when the instrument idea clicked with me I began to wonder.
I'm wondering if this has any truth to it in light of the fact that they had to recreate as closely as possible the conditions of flt 815 and Locke being a proxy.
Also I was reminded by Erika on her blog that the jamming signal in the Looking Glass was programmed by a musician. So I wonder if it was programmed by Charlie in a different timeline or a Charlie prototype?
Time loops, many dimensions existing at the same time in the same place- don't know. But it makes for a great show!
Well thanks to capcom for teaching me the copy/paste trick because it took me 3 times to get that posted. Ok now I REALLY have to go to bed.
Black Swan,I think Jin was Head of Pond Security there.
First off Great episode!
Here's something I thought of after I went to bed last night.
Is the comic con video with Chang and we think Dainel being made in this time that we're in now on the island? Was Daniel hoping to send it to the LBers/O6 in the future?
Ms. Hawkings didn't seem to happy that her son was sending a message to her. I wonder if they're not very close?
I've always thought Ben was going to be on the plane. I think that's why he turned the wheel instead of Locke. He never wanted to leave. I think he knew the O6 would have to go back and they were his ticket.
He told Hurley that Jack and Sayid were with him because "we" all want to go back. He was including himself in that.
Whoever Ben went up against put up quite a fight. I'm guessing it was Desmond. The island's not done with him so Ben can't kill him. But you'd think Desmond would have been long gone since he was the first to leave.
I guess we all thought of Valenzetti.
Sun left too. Could she have gone to Kate and talked her into sending Aaron to Korea? Kate really seemed distraught.
I don't think anyone except Jack knows they can't go back. Or maybe it's just Jack who can't go back. I still think he was suppose to be the new leader not Locke.
I'm thinking that this is the D.I. before Ben arrived on the island as a child. But I could be wrong.
I noticed that lie too.
They all didn't land in the same place the last time they came to the island. (This does kind of explain why certain ones we're hurt the first time.They came through the window {and I'm still not sure if it was accident or destiny}they didn't actually crash)
I'm sure the rest are on the island somewhere, maybe captured by the D.I.
The flipping numbers in the pendulum room were longitude and latitude. They were probably flipping trying to find the location of the island.
I knew Frank was going to be on that plane. He was suppose to be the original pilot.
His reaction was priceless. Is that Sayid,Sun,Hurley? We're not going Guam are we? I just hope he doesn't get killed like the other pilot. Maybe that's why the other pilot was killed because he wasn't Frank.
I haven't finished re watching I'm going to go back to that now.
Sayid's Girl, I'm not sure what you mean that about Jack knowing they can't go back.
I was thinking about how the ComicCon video fits in too especially with Jin now being part of the DI. I haven't quite worked out what I think about it. I want to know how Hawking, Ben and Farraday got the location of the Lamppost. Could that have been in a message we haven't seen?
Hawking's reaction to Desmond's message was weird. I guess it could be chalked up to her contentment with the rules of time and course correction.
And now putting two and two together, maybe Hawking had seen the DI ComicCon message and she gave Jack, Kate and Hurley at least a window that might allow them to prevent the Purge. She said these windows were time specific and that THIS window was Jack's. So will the Purge occur or can you change the future? I guess that's the big question. In fact, what if the reason she's sent them there is to take out the young Ben Linus.
memphish
Either maven or scoutpost (I'm to lazy to look right now) asked how Sun could leave Ji Yeon behind if she knew she couldn't come back.
I'm think maybe Jack is the only one who knows they can come back.
When Ben told him to pack everything he wanted because he can't come back.
Oh I guess I should have said come back. You thought I meant go back to the island. Sorry.
Aha! Maybe, Ben is going to run across Dharma Juliet when he gets to the island as a child. Assuming they are using assumed names, she won't be going by Juliet thus Harper thinking she looks just like somebody else later. She is going to be one of the few people who is kind to Ben in his young life - maybe thinking that if she's kind to him she can prevent him from turning into the mad man he turns out to be - thus setting it in motion for him to later become obsessed with a younger version of herself in the future. . . or not.
This allows for some two corners of the triangle to be Annie's parents. . .
I mean, if Kate's going to jump in bed with somebody every time things don't go her way that's got to have consequences eventually, doesn't it?
Sorry - that should have said 'quadrangle' instead of 'triangle' - - I really had Juliet in mind as Annie's mother but Kate would work too. . . .
I find it strange that the only place Ben has blood on him is his face. There isn't any blood on his clothing. You'd think even if he was the beaten and not the beater he'd have blood on his clothing.
And how do you stand out in broad daylight on a pay phone with a bloody face and not get noticed?
I like that Lost2010, Juliet looks like Her because she is her.
So do you think the guy who offers Jack his condolences is a Widmore plant? After all Widmore definitely knows something about what Hawking is up to and has had people tracking the O6. And if as the pop-ups said Widmore had been trying to kill the O6 does that mean the Island (not Ben, that weasel) was protecting them since it wasn't done with them yet?
Maybe 815 wasn't suppose to crash. Desmond not turning the key probably caused that. Maybe only the ones the island wanted were suppose to land there. Of course were still not sure if 316 crashed or not.
well i guess some of us were right about the island always periodically moving.
The best i can piece together things from the ending, when Locke nudged the wheel last week he at least temporarily stopped the flashes on the island, but by doing so "paused" the island and the lb's on the island circa late 1960's or early 1970's around the time the orchid was being built or Ben's dad coming to the island(we also know they must be around this time because of dan's hard hat appearance in the premiere). I can say this because the dharma van was brand spanking new as was jin uniform and rifle. It didn't show it, but i bet his uniform even had jin:workman on it or whatever. As i said before i think time passes the same for the lb's as it does for the 06. So my best guess is that roughly 2-3 years has passed on the island since locke "nudged" the wheel and subsequently stranded the lb's in the golden age of dharma for that time, parallel to the 2-3 years the 06 were off the island. How else could jin have entrenched himself into the DI so thoroughly. I say entrenched because of how they showed him jamming to music in his van, yes he was on guard with his rifle, as any DI worker would be outside of the barracks, but he didn't seem like someone who had been squatting in the forest. i guess well find out more soon
I liked how they had a good explanation for christian wearing keds while walking around the island.
one thing that i don't agree with is that Jack and the 06 had to all go on the flight to get back to the island or that it was all miracle country, i could just as easily see Ben and hawkings making all the "pieces" fall into place, so that everyone was on that flight. If anything, i could more see that they needed to match who was on the chopper with frank leaving the island to go back, because if they were trying to match the crash of flight 815, wouldn't walt be an important part of the equation or aaron. Christian never left the island so why would they need a proxy for him, i think the answer for that is it was all pomp and ritual for jacks sake of else He would have never fought to bring locke's body with(which i feel can now be a proxy for christian or jacob). I think the whole flight was a long con by Ben to finally get Jack to believe. i also bet ben wrote that suicide note or directed locke to write it.
I did like the symbolic role reversals of flight 815. Locke was christian. sayid was the new kate being escorted by law enforcement. Hurley was the new charlie with his guitar. I think that rather then some fuzzy science or magic, they made it back to the island because Ben and Frank made sure they would by flying right to the correct spot.
i wonder where or when everyone else went from the ajira plane. When the lb's stumbled onto the ajira bottles it was the island post 2004, as evidenced by the flight 815 wreckage being on the beach. So i'm thinking that the ajira wreckage is on the island in 2007 and just the people and maybe just certain people were subject to the flash. I feel the island wont be in its correct time period until the fdw is turned back to how it was before ben meddled with it.
hawkings said the island wasn't done with Desmond, but not that he was to take that flight, i feel he will come back later. Desmond being off island is pivotal to dan's plan to change things
it would seem that widmore either has no idea about hawkins' lamp post or he is just playing dumb, why else would he say he'd find the island again to ben? with access to the lamp post he would have never lost it. Makes me think hawkings may have the dharma ties and not widmore, but we will see, considering widmore told desmond where to find hawkings...
You know Sayid is the only one who didn't know ahead of time that they were going back to the island.
I'm sure he figured it out once everyone started boarding the plane. Then they hit turblence.
Hurley was kind of cool about it. Just kicking back with his sleep mask on.
scoutpost said: 2. I had a hard time listening to Desmond because I kept thinking he was going to walk into that stupid pendulum about half a dozen times. LOL
Desmond was the smartest person in this entire episode.. he left when he had the chance.
Really hope nothing bad happens to Frank.
I still have a problem with Sun leaving her daughter so easily.
I dont think that Kate gave Aaron to anyone. i think he was taken by someone who was blackmailing her. jack should have still asked what happend to his nephew.
Widmore has to know that they are all on the plane. So it would not be a major leap to think that the condolance guy is a plant.
loved all the parallels. could you count the flight attendant as another cindy?
lastly when jack talked about all the other people on the plane i thought that it was necessary because we have run out of redshirts on the island.
What an episode!
I was thinking that Kate seemed to be acting very strangely with Jack and at the airport. I believe she was trying to remain unnoticed because she was basically breaking the probation rules from her trial and was leaving California. Don't you think that would have shown up when she bought a ticket?
So I guess they are in the time of the height of the DI. That would explain how Dan is in the tunnel in the Orchid and how he gets involved with Chang to film the Comic Con video. Maybe he's even the guy who tells them all the issues with time travel and helps film the Bunny 15 Orchid Orientation film. I'm going to have to rewatch later today, but Jin Workman didn't seem to recognize Jack/Kate/Hurley.
Spolier Alert for those who don't watch the preview.
It looks like Locke gets resurrected on the island. He's talking to the woman who had Sayid in handcuffs. She asks what do you remember. He says I remember dying.
maven
I'm sure Kate is using another alias.
Kate was acting weird- I think it was because a) whatever happened to her and Aaron b) she didn't want to go back and c) that she was trying not to get caught for violating probation.
Mrs. Hawking confirmed that the island has always been moving- so why haven't the Losties experienced it the whole time they were on the island? Only the LBers have experienced it. Was the island always in the same geographical spot but travelling through time and when Ben turned the FDW the island moved not only in time but geographically?
I guess to clarify my question I just want to know what the difference is between the island traveling from 815 crash to O6 leaving and the traveling after the o6 left.
To me, this was the weakest episode of the season. Very disappointing considering that this is clearly an important turning point in the series, and that the episode was written by Damon/Carlton. There were good points, but I have a lot of complaints, in no particular order:
1. The O6 are famous, recognizable worldwide. But NOT ONE PERSON at the airport recognizes Jack, Hurley, Sun, or Kate? Not to mention the fact that they are all together AND getting on a plane? You'd think that would have freaked out a lot of those people sitting by the gate. Jack, especially, should be recognizable. He was just on the news not long ago because of the crash on the bridge.
2. The whole "you have to recreate the conditions of the original flight" rule makes no sense to me. I don't know how they are going to explain that either scientifically or religiously.
3. Even if I accept the "recreate original conditions" rule as fact, the whole "you need to get something that belonged to Christian" rule makes no sense. It's not enough that they have a frakking dead body on the plane?
4. The whole "let's go meet Jack's grandfather" side story completely derailed any flow the episode had going for it. This guy apparently had no purpose in the story other than to give Jack a pair of shoes.
5. Are you telling me Jack had NOTHING laying around that formerly belonged to Christian? Jack had to use THOSE shoes? Ridiculous. I was expecting him to use the watch that his father gave him in that one webisode. That would have been a nice touch. Now that webisode seems even more pointless now.
6. The scene where Kate was completely distraught and lying on the bed in misery started out as really interesting and mysterious--Where is Aaron? Did she give him up? Why? Did someone kidnap Aaron? Why won't she let Jack ask questions about it? A good scene, that is, until she throws herself at Jack for no apparent reason other than to inflame a shipper war. Just when you think that the writers can't ruin Kate's character any further, they prove you wrong.
7. I know this is LOST, but come on: NOBODY demands to know why the hell Ben has had the crap beaten out of him? NOBDODY demands to know why in the world Hurley suddenly appears on the plane? With a guitar case? How does Hurley even know about the flight?
8. Why the heck can't they charter their own flight to get to the "window"? They have to sacrifice a bunch of innocent people by flying on a commerical airliner? And (except for Hurley) they are all comfortable doing this?
9. There was clearly a deleted scene between Jack and the woman and the bar. Why cast that person in the role, make her the focus of a couple of camera shots, then not show what took place between them? This added to the choppy-editing feel of the episode.
10. You could even feel the writers' uncertainty about how the fans would react to this episode. They had characters like Jack keep saying that things were "ridiculous". He's right, they were ridiculous, even given the LOST universe. Heck, the writers even had Eloise and Ben practically beg the others (and by "proxy", the audience) to just ignore everything that doesn't make sense and take a leap of faith.
That's it for my rant. I'll post about the good things and speculate on the mysteries later. Right now I'm just upset that after a few good episodes in a row, they came up with this stinker. It was a little better after a second viewing, but not much. This season, the writers have already been making us accept the concept of time travel (even with the paradoxes--see the compass, for example--that come with it), but it feels like they are asking us to accept too many illogical things right now.
And now Blogger keeps eating this post!
Great thoughts everyone!
Memphish, re: your VE question, didn't Alvar say that Valenzetti figured out the equation/catastrophe, tried to "sell" his theory to the UN, no one wanted it ("it was buried"), so he gave/sold it to Alvar who was the only one interested? And then the Alvar created the DI who used it to work on saving the world, etc?
BlueHeron, it's been 3 years. Can you pick someone famous for 15 minutes 3 years ago out of a lineup? Do you think you'll be able to identify Sully and his crew 3 years from now?
I don't think Kate would be on an airport list for a probation agreement.
But who says that the DI films tell the truth Capcom? We've seen deliberate lies on them in the past.
Memphish,
Just about every other time even one of the O6 goes anywhere, someone at least vaguely remembers them.
And just a few days or couple of weeks ago, both Hurley AND Jack were on the news: Jack for saving the people on the bridge, Hurley for mudering three people!
Plus, I would think that their names would ring a bell to the people working for Ajira, especially!
Any ideas for an acronym for Guam?
A Gum?
Am Gu?
Muga?
I got nothin...
I don't get that at all Blue Heron. The only one that's ever been recognized is Jack. Hurley had to ID himself as O6 when he was arrested, and we've seen Sun and Sayid travel around the world unmolested. And we've never seen anyone confront Kate with her celebrity after her trial. And even if you did recognize them, are you going to be the stalker that says something? So they're flying again, so what?
As for Ajira, you got cash, we got ticket in this economy right? Just nitpicking you back BH. Nothing personal.
Anyone think Desmond might accidentally sail into a window sometime in the future?
I think you have some valid complaints Blueheron, and here is how I think TPTB would explain-
Like memphish said, other than maybe Jack, a lot of the people probably wouldn't necessarily remember all the members of the O6. Also, I think that because the O6 bought their tickets for the flight at the last minute prevented anyone from realizing that all of the O6 were getting on the same flt to Guam.
I thought it was weird to interject Jacks grandfather in there too. So I am wondering if he will come into play- I mean if Jack and his dad are so integral to the island, it makes me wonder if grandpa doesn't know something.
re: the watch- yeah you'd think Jack would've used the watch except that the shoes explain the tennis shoes from S1 and they held a certain meaning for Jack since he cared so little for C.S. the first time to even get him a decent set of shoes. And, people who are not close with their dads, may not have anything or much at hand to grab in an emergency like this (LOL)
I don't understand the significance of recreating the scene either, but I think that is why they had to take a commercial flt. They also were operating in a short time window to get things done.
Yeah I wonder if they deleted a scene between the woman in the bar and Jack. Obviously we were all thinking that he was going to recreate the scene he had with Ana Lucia.
I wonder if, when this show is all said and done, if someone were to go through and put the entire show (flash backs, forwards, time travel, etc) in chronological order, starting circa 1954 and ending circa 2007, and you watched the whole series like that, would it make more, less, or about as much sense...
Methinks we'd be just as confused right about now in the series.
I don't know - I kind of agree with blue heron. It's been awhile since the O6 were rescued, but it does seem like SOMEONE would have thought, "That kind of looks like that guy from flight 815, and that looks like the fugitive from flight 815, and that looks like.... holy crap!" I mean, how long ago was the scene where Jack and Hurley were playing basketball at Santa Rosa? Jack was still signing autographs then. And Hurley would have been in the news a lot because of his arrest.
If nothing else, we know that at least Jack and Hurley checked in using their real names (Ajira employees address them as Mr. Shapherd and Mr. Reyes). If no one recognized their faces, it seems that they would at least remember the names.
I also thought it was strange that no one seemed concerned about the other people on the flight. Kind of heartless.
And finally, I also expected Jack to use the watch that Christian gave him. I even said to my husband when Hawking told Jack he needed something of his father's, "I bet it's a watch!" Wrong!
Blueheron: I certainly understand your frustration with this particular episode. I don't think any of use would act the way these people do. I've always had the issue with our Losties never asking questions for revealing important things. But, as Hawking said, I'm willing to take a Leap of Faith and leave the Man of Science behind to go with the flow.
With the said, I still don't get to major things from the episode: How on earth can no one comment on Ben's condition...beat up and his arm in a sling? And, secondly, how can Sun leave Ji Yeon behind? Or, at least, let us see her calling her Mother to explain she's going to be gone for a while.
And the scene at the nursing home with Grandpa Ray did seem to come out of left field. Besides the bunny and the "magic show" references, I didn't get why this was thrown in. I realize the shoes answered one of our burning questions (about the white tennis shoes), but it could have been done in an easier manner.
I know it's not personal, Memphish! I respectfully disagree with you, though.
This is the my only online place for blogging about LOST, and I just needed to get all those comments out of my system!
Blue Heron
Sorry you didn't like this episode so much. I liked becaused it didn't jump around so much. I think the whole episode was about taking a leap of faith.
I agree with memphish it's been 3 years since they were found. Jack had been in the news recently along with Hurley. But I don't think it would have been more of a reaction than look there's that guy they thought killed those men.
I've kind of gotten use to Kate throwing heself at the nearest warm body.
I was expecting the watch too. But the mobisodes like the ARG were probably only watched by the die hard fans and most wouldn't know the connection.
Can't wait to hear what you liked about the episode.
maven said: 1. Why, oh why, doesn't anyone say to Ben: "What happened to you?" He better have not offed Penny like he promised Widmore!
I thought Jack did ask him on the phone and Ben hedged?
Scoutpost said: 4. Why does Jack trust and confide in Ben?! Where does this come from? It's one thing to agree to go back, but all of a sudden Jack is looking to Ben like he's a friend.
I think it started at the funeral home and due to the fact that out of the people from the island, Ben's been the only one who seems to be shooting straight and helping Jack out. Not saying that Ben should be trusted, just saying that I can see why Jack, needing someone to talk to, would choose Ben. I bet you're right that Jack felt guilty about Locke's death.
RE: Changing the purge - I'm not sure anything about the timeline can be changed. I think TPTB have made it very clear that what happened will happen. If so, then our Losties will somehow play into what we already know happens.
Yes, Kate was acting very strange from the point of finding her in Jack's bedroom on. Maybe she was just thinking about Sawyer but there could be more to it.
I checked out Ajira's website today hoping there'd be something on it about a crash but nothing.
And didn't Ben tell Jack that he should pack a bag of important things to him because he is never returning to the real world? Did the other O6ers get those instructions, too? And I don't see any luggage landing on the DI infested island. It seems you only land with what you're touching (the guitar case and the note from Locke). I'm assuming the casket somehow made it out of the cargo hold. Is this window only working for those who previously have been on the island, so the other Ajira passengers are okay? Did they just hit "turbulance" and our O6 were sucked out? Frank seemed to think that the flight was in trouble when he said "We're not going to Guam, are we?"
Ooooh - what if Alpert gets Juliet to play Ben's mom in that mysterious apparition that leads young Ben to choose the Others?
For balance, here are some things I liked about the episode:
1. The mysteries about what happened to Ben, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid are probably serving as a setup for "traditional" flashback episodes for those characters. I would welcome the return of the traditional flashback.
2. Frank's line about Guam: one of the funniest in the entire series, in my opinion.
3. I liked how they showed Jack nearly turning back to alcohol at a couple of points. It's not like his addictions have totally disappeared.
4. All the parallels (which you guys have already done a great job pointing out) between 815 and 316.
5. Desmond yelling at Eloise and getting the heck out of there!
6. That creepy feeling I got when I realized that Ben was probably going after Penny. I hope Desmond was the one that put the smackdown on Ben!
7. Nice that they didn't make us wait until next week to see what the note said. (But is the note even important, now that I think about it? It didn't say much.)
I love Frank's line about Guam, and I also liked in the beginning when Jack asked Ben if he knew about th lamppost. I cracked up when Jack immediately turns to Ms. Hawking and says "is he telling the truth?" and she answers "probably not."
Yeah Grandad Ray was a prop but it didn't bother me.
The bar scene did remind me of Ana Lucia but I missed the woman. I guess I'm going to have to watch a 3rd time. lol
I agree Ben coming on the plane beat up and nobody saying anything was weird. The only one who had a reaction was Sayid. Maybe they were just afraid to know what he had done this time.
Young Wallace,
To get a feel for how the show would look chronlogically, you can look at the timelines that people have put togther and picture the scenes in a different order from what we've seen.
Maven,
I was wondering, too, if the Ajira plane ever crashed. Maybe the O6 (plus Locke? plus Ben? plus Frank?) all just vanished off the plane. Now THAT would freak everyone out. Especially the copilot!
No one else that we've seen come to the island "flashed" in, though. I wonder what was special about this time?
Oh it would've been cool if they had updated the Ajira website like that. If Hurley bought 78 empty seats, I wonder if that means I got bumped from the flight. hmmm ;)
I wonder why the police officer would be taking Sayid to Guam. Because of his history in the Iraqi R.G. and because Guam has a military base?
I know LOST has a history of characters not communicating the obvious, but it does seem a little odd that there were so many things left open ended in this epi. Especially with Ben- you know someone would've had to ask him what the heck happened.
And while I really like Michael Emerson, I'm starting to REALLY hate Ben. It's getting hard to see how he can be in any way good or working for the good of anyone except himself. And I say that because of one of the shots in the previews for next week.
Great 10 points Blueheron, and I ditto all of 'em. :-)
Well Memphis, I'm just putting trust in what Alvar said, FWIW. It seemed like TPTB wanted us to use that info as if it was truth. That's not to say that Alvar couldn't have been lying. But the way he was with Rachel, etc. it seemed like he did want to use it for good. That's also not to say that the SL video wasn't edited with all those breaks to make it sound like the story that Alvar was telling was the truth. :-o
blueheron13 said...No one else that we've seen come to the island "flashed" in, though. I wonder what was special about this time?
yeah that's what I'm wondering
Oh so maybe Ben's weird look at Des when he comes out of the shadows at the church was because Ben was thinking about getting Penny. gosh I hope he didn't get her and if he tried, I do hope it was Des who did the beat down.
That's what I've been hoping too since S3, YoungWallace! :-) But then we'd have to buy the "New Completely In Order Uncut" DVD.
FYI: Jorge has a cute post up regarding how wet he was filming the lagoon scene! With pics, too!
Could Sayid's cop/marshall/etc have been working for the Others? She might not even be a cop (unless I missed something) and perhaps Ben just had a DI goon track him down and cuff him. His captor used to be on "The Lone Gunmen" and was a really tough spy, so she could probably kick Sayid's butt. :o)
was ben just kidding when he said his mother taught him to read(since she died in childbirth)? or was she an apparition like hurley is always seeing ala the shining and taught him to read. If you'll recall richard took a shine to ben originally for seeing his dead mother who died off the island.
i think jin was just surprised , i think he recognized them, i think after being stuck in circa 1970 island jin was resigned to the fact that they were never coming back. If I'm right and the lb's have been trapped in the 70's on the island for 3 years(i do think there could be a time ratio, like 3 months in 1970's island could be 3 years off island), this gives the writers tons of places to go as far as LB's flashbacks to what happened during these years(or months), almost the inverse of last seasons 06 flash forwards, very Kubrickesque symmetry and structure
I'm convinced that Jack's granddad knows of the island that's why he played his part in getting jack to see the shoes. I felt there was more to granddads line if he got away" they would never find him", sounds like the island to me. the magic and bunnies have already been mentioned. Christian and Jacks relative being a magician also is a nod to the man of science man of faith dichotomy.
I don't think that the ajira airways thing was fate or magic or miracle, i think it was all arraigned by ben, hawkings, or widmore or even someone we haven't seen yet.
no one told sun it was a one way trip so i don't really fault her for leaving her child, i presume she thinks she will be able to bring jin home.
I guess my question is, did they go to cicra 1970's island because of their bearings or because of where locke left the donkey wheel when they left. Wheres the ajira wreck, if they flashes to 2007island would it be around the island? WHy were the ajira water bottles on a more current time period of the island.
was the point of the reverse "no place like home" you gotta believe jack to make it happen action to purely shade jacks actions on his coming mission, or was it necessary for jack, kate, and hurley to join the lb's. I guess we will have to see if the other ajira passengers are in 1970 or 2004-7 on the island.
Im convinced that walt didn't have to go back, chiefly because hes needed in the future to help the island possibly as mathew abbadon, but also so because ben let him leave during the purpling which may determine how or when you go back.
i think desmond will crash there again in the future
being on the island is important, but so is being off the island. Mrs hawkings has to stay on the mainland to affect things, if her gambit doesn't work with the 815'ers she keep trying something new. I think widmore and desmond(for now) being off island is important. If widmore wanted to go back to the island so bad he would have gone with the freighter. He wants to control it not be there necessarily.
i think that the island has been moving through the ages, but the DI managed to tether it in time and space with the swan and by freezing the donkey wheel. How else could they build there or do anything. I think the swan clock was part of that and the swan seemed to be one of the earliest things built by the DI, well before the orchid and the only exceptions to it being anchored was when the clock wasn't pressed in time. i.e. desmond and locke's clock adventures or perhaps the incident.
i also wonder if ben went up to the cockpit right before the crash to affect what bearings they approached the island at. I also think frank was playing dumb he has been working for ben all along or another theory is they purposely kept him off the 815 flight to make the freighter(mike too) mission and the ajira flight more likely to find the island, like if it wants a certain person, or a number of people the island will make things happen especially as the number of people it wants increases. This episode makes jacks old plan of flying around on oceanic every weekend not look as stupid of a way to find the island..
Funny how things are connected.
Widmore is a former Other, intimately connected to the island. He has a daughter Penny, by a mother not yet mentioned (Hawking?). Desmond falls in love with Penny and then crashes on the island.
Hawking is an Other, has a child Faraday by an unnamed father (Widmore?), Faraday falls in love with a woman who was born on the island and they both end up there.
It seems that the island stays connected to everyone once connected to it and to some that those people touch in deep ways.
Deep calls to deep.
See any other round-about significant connections or is it all the writer's playing with us?
I like the idea that pushing the button kept the island tethered.
I don't trust the "condolences" guy.
And with Locke talking about "I remember dying"........well.....heehee.....need I say it???
peace, love and purgatory
capcom - that was my thought, that she wasn't a real cop or marshall. I'm suspicious of both her and Mr. "I'm sorry about your friend."
I don't get why TPTB felt the need to show them waking up on the island twice last night. To nitpicky-me, it was just a waste of a few minutes that they could have used to show us something else that we needed to know. Was it just to start out with a disorienting placement shocker as usual? Or is there more meaning there than I am able to see?
Well, I said way back when, that pressing the button prevented the anomole from going all willie-nillie. That's why the plane crashed, instead of pulling what the "new flight" did.
Since when does anyone ask anyone questions on this show? Of course everyone assumes Ben deserved whatever happened to him, and probably wouldn't put it past him to fake injuries for sympathy or to test the Island's healing powers. What Kate said about them being there, but not together is exactly why no one cares what happened to Ben just like Ben doesn't care about the other passengers.
I think Grandpa Ray will come back to "haunt" us either in a past flash on Island or something Christian tells us later. As for the watch, I'm not sure Jack still has it. I know at one point we were trying to trace it on Island. He gives it to Hurley in the Pilot for Claire's contractions right?
When I first saw the woman in the bar, I thought she looked like Daniel's Theresa.
As for changing the past, I know we've been told they can't but then why do they have to go back? There has to be some ability to change something or it makes no sense at all that they go back especially to the past which is where Hawking deliberately sent them assuming things were predictable as opposed to unpredictable.
I'd like to see it be the case that everyone in the front of the plane disappears but that Frank flies everyone else to safety. I so wanted a Haliburton case to hit Sayid's handler in the head. Oh, and I just realized Jack offered Kate juice at his apartment like the Marshall on the plane.
I agree that the island was probably "tethered" by some means for a while. If they depended on "windows", it would have been too difficult for the DI to bring all their materials to the island and build everything.
That statement by Locke (to the new woman in the plane) given in the promos does seem too spoilery to put in the promos.
As for the new man and women on the plane, I wonder if the man is either the "Gabriel" or "Jeffrey" that Ben asked Jill the Butcher about in "The Lie".
I've got some catching up to do, but blueheron13, I think you forget how spoiled we've been the past two season, that things are getting either explained for us, or at least not left hanging wide open for multiple episodes.
Remember the first two seasons? Stuff would get left out there for weeks, months at a time!
This time, people are asking the questions you have (Hurley? Aaron? What happened to Ben?), but the answers are set aside to serve the rush they've all been put to by Ms. Hawking.
Doc Jensen is right: we're right back in Season 1's wheelhouse.
Please forgive the following stream of consciousness posting
Ray! I finally remembered why Ray was ringing a bell. . .wasn't Ray the guy who turned Kate into the Marshall? Or do I need to keep puzzling on that one. I know it's not the same Ray.
I think the island has always been moving geographically. . . but as long as the FDW was frozen it was fixed in time. It's not the geographical moves that cause the nosebleeds - it's the unstuck in time part.
And was the doctor on the boat named Ray? Or did I make that up?
Daniel's experiment and the Boat Dr. washing up showed that the island wasn't quite in sync with the rest of the world but at that point it was pretty close. Maybe just a few hours off.
So maybe it's always moved geographically, but when Ben knocked the wheel off it's axis, it caused it to start moving around in time too.
I would get a big kick out of finding out that two of our LB's are in the Swan station punching the button now. If anyone knows how important it is to keep that exotic energy vented, it's them.
Ray was indeed the name of the doctor from the freighter, and the name of the Aussie who turned Kate in. But not the same Ray.
Doc's got an interesting theory about Grandpa Ray.
Kyle,
To clarify, I love the mysteries, such as "How did Aaron get separated from Kate"? I don't want those questions to be answered immeditately. And I like Season 1 and Season 2 better than any of the subsequent seasons so far.
What I don't like is when the characters act in what appears to be an illogical manner (such as Kate flinging herself on Jack), or when the producers create moments that require you to suspend your disbelief so much that it really takes you out of the normal, fun experience of wathcing the show. Which is what happened to me a lot yesterday.
So, it's just one of those names Darlton are fond of, then I guess. Sometimes I wonder if the timeloop manifests certain things like the repetitive names to try and tell the main characters something.
Doc Arzt? Do you have a direct link to the theory perchance?
i wonder if grandpa ray has a "house in the woods (jungle)"? hmmm.....hahaha
hey all
great points, both who liked the episode and those who were less enthused.
Just one thing...Kate was obviously VERY distraught. She didn't just leave Aaron, or calmly hand him over to Sun's mom or Granny Littleton. Kate looked to me like she was extremely traumatized by what happened, like she was trying to block it from her memory (PTSD, anyone?).
Perhaps Claire showed up in person to claim Aaron, and then disappeared with him right in front of Kate...and told Kate what would happen to the LBs if she didn't go back to the Island. That would shake her good, and also make her insist on never explaining her reasons to anyone.
Or something like that. But whatever it was that convinced Kate, it wasn't normal. And it must have deposited Kate in Jack's place, (I'm sure she didn't get in with her own key!)she seemed emotionally defeated and resigned to her fate of returning to the Island. Sex in that case was more an escape, not so much about Jack but about getting physical so she didn't have to think about what just happened (a common reaction to trauma for some).
Certainly dark, but the first thought at our house was that she killed him, like a mercy killing.
Also, for the record, I don't think Jin's look was meant to indicate a lack of recognition. I think it was the Jin version of the smile Sawyer gave him when he popped up in the jungle last week.
i also think jin does remember the LBers. i would hate to be locke & Ben when jin finds out he brought sun back.
def of boy's name Ray
but don't forget Rey in Spanish is King.
hmmm, Jack's grandad Ray made me think of Ra, the Egyptian Sun god.
According to Wikipedia, "Ra is most commonly pronounced 'rah'. It is more likely, however, that it should be pronounced as 'rei'; hence the alternative spelling Re rather than Ra."
Amusing, no?
Hasn't Kate ever heard of comfort food? ;)
yes, lost2010, and Jack looked like a tastey morsel!
ooo Kyle...you think Kate might have killed Aaron?
oh wow oh wow omg
yeah that would explain her state of mind and the "don't EVER ask me whassup..."
that is dark Kyle- but anything is possible. I definitely think that it was a very traumatic experience and went against Kate's will judging by her reaction. I wonder if Kate started seeing dead people like Jack and Hurley- remember they went off their rocker when they started seeing Christian, Charlie, Eko, etc. She did see Claire that one time, but it was more dreamlike- maybe she got some kind of supernatural visit, they took Aaron and she lost it.
good point about Ben memphish- even if the O6 were burning with curiosity over what happened with Ben, they probably didn't care enough or hate him enough not to ask what happened.
And I don't remember who said this, but I have wondered too if we're going to see our Losties pushing the Swan button!
Amused2behere - Touche'
About Jin and bringing Sun back, Jin said, "Don't bring her back! Don't bring my baby back!" I noted while watching the enhanced version last night. So while he didn't want Sun brought back he also didn't want the baby brought back which she wasn't. I think Jin will be ok with that compromise given the circumstances. He has no choice. And I agree that Sun probably think she and Jin will leave the island again.
Looking forward to the flashbacks that reveal what Kate, Hurley, and Ben were up to. That won't be next week though, will it? That'd be too easy.
Okay, I blogged it. Something came to mind after I read some of your responses to my "Kate killed Aaron" theory. It's a doozy.
ew. But very possibly right.
Read it. Ok. I think you've got me believing Kate killed someone. Maybe not Aaron, but someone.
ok, so where are the Shannon/Boone characters? Could they be Condolences Guy and Latina Marshall chick?
or maybe they are the Paolo/Nikki proxies...heh heh...speaking of which...
Loved Ben's cold as ice line in response to Jack's "What about the people on the plane?"---- "Who Cares?" oooooo if ya don't hate Ben already...
It's possible, I guess, that she killed Aaron. Although, in my mind I'm seeing more of a horrible accident that was her fault than anything else.
Maybe a jumpy Kate with a gun, firing into the darkened hotel room only to discover it was Aaron.
Or a distraught Kate wrecking the car and killing him. . .
I hope not though. . .I've always liked poor little Aaron.
Thinking about Kate and Aaron, I wonder if everybody has been forced to make a sacrifice to get back to the island - in the case of Locke, his life, but for everybody else, they had to give up someone they loved or their convictions. I presume that Kate was being haunted by the vision she had of Claire who threatened her to never let Aaron return to the island.
Locke - his life
Kate - Aaron
Sun - Ji Yeon
Hurley - his parents
Sayid - his freedom
Jack - his conviction in science over faith - possibly Kate as well
I was thinking Widmore could have had the crap beat out of Ben.
He told Desmond where to find Ms. Hawking. So he would know where to find Penny if he wanted to.
He knows Ben is looking for her. Maybe he had people watching her and when Ben showed up they attacked him or maybe Widmore did it himself.
Somewhere else I read the notion that Widmore's goons gave Ben the beatdown like the video Ben showed Locke last season. I sure hope that's what happened. In a way it's too easy he went after Penny, but then this season has been easy, hasn't it?
As for Aaron, I don't think Kate killed him. I think she gave him, the child she's raised for the past 3 years, to someone else knowing that she'll never, ever see him again or be part of his life. And the reason she doesn't want Jack ever to ask about it is that now she's closed herself off to that part of her life. She's back to on the run jungle Kate with her hair in a ponytail and her freckles in full view. She not only doesn't do taco night anymore, she doesn't do bedtime stories either. That's enough to make any mother pretty desperate.
What Kate might have done with Aaron brings to mind what Scully did with little William on the X-Files, giving him away to strangers so he would be safe from the consortium and warring aliens. Not that this is what Kate did, but it just reminds me of that. I hope that she didn't do that, or, kill him. Yow. I'll stop watching for sure if that's the case.
Maybe Kate went all the way to Nebraska to abandon him before they changed that law of theirs.
kate killing aaron would be a little too "last season of the shield" with shane mercy killing his whole family.
I'm pretty sure that as much time has passed for the lb's on the island since Locke nudged the wheel as passed for the 06 off the island or as i mentioned in some ratio. The flashes are probably over, i can't see jin leisurely driving around in the van if the flashes are still happening.
I think Ben and hawking waited all that time to go back so that the lb's could do something in 1970(around there anyway) before the 06 joined them, after all ben was transported to tunesia a little less then a year ahead, why wait 2 years and then rush to get them back? perhaps it took locke a lot longer to get back to the mainland then ben. the cast on his leg(locke) seems to show that locke only appeared on the mainland somewhere in 2007,maybe a little before,(this goes back to the time passing for the lbs vs 06, ben turns the wheel and goes to say a year a head of time in tunesia and locke turns it, say two weeks later and goes almost three years in the future to lord knows where), to convince them to go back. So maybe ben had to bide his time and wait for locke to arrive to have any chance to convince them or they really physically needed locke to be the proxy, but i doubt it's the proxy for christain, since he never left the island and if you are trying to recreate the 815 crash, wheres walt?
it seems to me, considering they showed widmore giving locke a pep talk in the preview, that there may be a third dark horse candidate for who the real"big bad" is on the island that isn't Ben or widmore. Maybe Ben and widmore are on the same team, and having an argument like which one is Micheal jordan and which is scottie pippen, in other words an internal beef, with a big bad we dont know about yet, still lurking.
i thought it was hilarious when jack was putting on the shoes and saying" your probably laughing your ass off right now, john!". Man of science putting his dad's shoes on a corpse in order to find a magic island.
I also liked how Desmond broke it down that they are all pawns, in hawkings, ben, and widmore's game. I feel hawkings was so trite with desmond because she knew ajira wasn't his vehicle back to the island. She wanted to piss him off so he's leave, but she also wanted him to know about the lamp post.
i tend to think that ajira did crash, why else would the water bottles be on the beach on the island post 2004.
i wonder if those dart guns we've seen had something in them similar to the green stuff desmond used to inject himself with in the swan and that determines if you are subject to the time flashes or not?
if locke isn't hiding from widmore, why change his name to jeremy bentham. I assume that there is a third party locke was hidig from and perhaps the answer to, who the dart gun thugs really work for...
I can't wait to find out how much time the LBs think has passed.
Some thoughts from my rewatch:
1. "Charlie's" guitar ends up saving Hurley in the lagoon.
2. Mrs. Hawking is like a school teacher with no patience.
3. Mrs. Hawking says they gathered proof that they knew (the island) existed. What was that proof? Was there just rumors of some mystical place?
4. Who was this "very clever fellow" that assembled a team to create the equations to find where the island would be? Was Alvar that clever? He could have assembled a team, though.
5. Jack is trying to revert to drinking again, but is stopped a number of times...by a phone call...by hearing sounds in his apartment.
6. Kate sure looked like she did something either terrible or traumatic. I'm siding with those that she gave Aaron to someone. I'm thinking to his Grandma. But when Sun left the church, she could have met Kate and arranged for him to go to Korea.
7. Locke seems to be growing a stubble in the coffin.
8. Hurley definitely doesn't want anyone to know how he knew to get on the plane. I guess he doesn't want to tell them he sees dead people again.
9. I'm going with thinking that there was no crash of 316. Everyone put their seat belts on as soon as the turbulence started and the sign went on. Upon arriving on the island, they don't know where the plane is. And they don't remember crashing. I gather they just disappeared on the flight like we've seen the LBers do.
10. It looks like Jin does recognize them. Is he wearing a Star logo patch? I remember seeing a red star on the back of his shirt in "This Place is Death" (it was by his neck). Is there another DI station?
if the plane didn't crash where did the water bottles coe from. I tend to think that whoever was escorting sayid and the new sayid will appear again, just because we didn't see the wreckage doesn't mean its not there. I tend to think that maybe the wreckage is in "the present" on the island and only the 06 went to the 70's. I think that ben may be leading the rest of the ajira survivors in the present on the island, and that may have been who was shooting at locke and sawyer in the outrigger
maybe the shoes and all the ritual of the ajira flight was more to make sure the 06 join the lb's in the past, it seems like finding ond landing on the island in real time in the present doesnt take all this effort, it was more to maybe let jack guide when they appeared on the island
I think maybe Hawking and co. don't actually know exactly what it takes to get onto the island. . .so it's like football players and their socks. . .they mimic as much as they possibly can because they don't want to change whatever worked.
It now looks like selecting the odd group of freightees might have had more to do with their probability of making it to the island than their special talents. . .They needed them to open the window because they'd been there before - then Keamy could get his warriors through the window after they left it open.
Maybe.
2costa: I like your idea that maybe the O6 got "sucked" into the 1970's DI island, which the actual Ajira plane crashed on island in the present day and that's why there is an Ajira water bottle in the outrigger. It still doesn't explain why those outriggers are there in the first place. Where would Flight 316 crash survivors have gotten them and not an inflatable raft?
Maven, your #4 is like what Memphish was asking maybe. It could be Valenzetti, if the "clever man" was a mathmetician. Or, it could be Alvar, if the Mr.Clever was just a very enterprising person with lots of money and an unstoppable desire to save the world (utilizing a mathmetician's work to do so). :-)
Capcom: I was also wondering if the clever man was her son. The look she gave Desmond when he brought her the message from Daniel was priceless. Something is definitely up with that mother/son relationship!
Oh snap, didn't even think of that! :-D
I'm not sure if Ben being beat up at the marina has anything to with Penny.
Would Desmond and Penny sail that boat all the way from London to LA?
Wouldn't it be easier to and faster to fly?
I don't know the more I think about it the more it seems like a big red herring.
But I could be wrong.
2costa, that's what I mentioned as a possibility last night - that the plane crashed and Ben was shooting at the LBs. Maybe the outriggers were stashed there by Ben (he always has a plan) for later use. They crashed near where he had them stashed and paddled over to the beach camp because he knew there would be supplies there.
Double reposting. My friend Andrew posted this and someone named Darth_Fenris from the imdb boards posted it there. Is that you Fenris? And if so, why didn't you post this here?
How to Make a Peanut Butter Sandwich, by the Losties
Jack
1. Gather ingredients
2. Point gun at ingredients and shout "HOW DO I MAKE A SANDWICH OUT OF YOU?!?!?"
3. Breathe heavily through your nose as though you were about to hit ingredients
4. Give up and make the sandwich yourself, and eat it bitterly
Kate
1. Make separate sandwiches, one with peanut butter and one with jelly
2. Take a bite of the peanut butter sandwich, declaring it the best
3. Take a bite of the jelly sandwich, declaring it the best
4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 ad infinitum
5. Follow peanut butter or jelly sandwich into grave danger
Sawyer
1. Throw the jar of jelly at wall, sneering "I don't need no sandwich"
2. Call the mascot on the jar of peanut butter lots of clever nicknames
3. Huff and puff and stomp around and grumble a lot
4. When no one's looking, make perfect, even, symmetrical peanut butter and jelly sandwich and sit in a corner, enjoying every bite
Locke
1. Sit idly by, believing that the ingredients will find a way to make a sandwich out of themselves
2. Lose faith and make the sandwich anyway
3. Realize that you were the instrument by which the ingredients chose to make a sandwich after all
4. Run around the room and grab everyone's knives, insisting that their sandwiches will do the same in time
Hurley
1. Make sandwich
2. Eat sandwich
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 ad infinitum
Sayid
1. Procure 23 milligrams of uranium-20
2. Set hadron supercollider to eight megajoules
3. Program a sandwich-making macro using Cobol or Visual Basic
4. Act all tough-like
Desmond
1. Eat sandwich
2. Call the sandwich "brother"
3. Place peanut butter slice over jelly slice
4. Spread jelly on the other slice
5. Spread peanut butter on one slice
6. Take two slices of bread, a jar of peanut butter and a jar of jelly
Ben
1. Steal someone else's sandwich
2. Claim you coerced them into making the sandwich for you all along
3. Say you'll tell them everything if they make you another sandwich
4. Stare at them all creepy-like
Libby
1. Lay out plans for one of the most intricate, fascinating, and delicious sandwiches of all time
2. Just as you start making it, get shot
Danielle
1. Apply peanut butter
2. Disappear for eight months
3. Apply jelly
4. Disappear for eight months
5. Eat sandwich
Claire
1. Mmmmmmm, peanut butter..
That's great!!
lol Darth Fenris!!!!
Hi everyone, finally finished my post and it's not quite as long this week. I had more time! :)
I have really enjoyed the observations,speculations and theories going on here!
xxoo
that is a great friday laugh. but now i want a PB&J sandwich for lunch..
Thanks for sharing that Memphish!! So very funny and true!
Here's some ideas for some of the other Losties:
Rose and Bernard:
* Bernard says, "Rose I love you so much I wish that I could give you all the PB&Js in the world. xxoo"
* Rose says, "Well what are you standing there for, go make 'em, they're not going to get made by themselves you old fool, and don't get all Rambo with the peanut butter!"
Boone and Shannon:
* Boone says, "Here sis I made you a sandwich cuz I want to take care of you."
* Shannon says, "I dont need your pathetic sandwich, I could make one myself if I wanted one!" Then she goes off to find some gullible guy to make one for her and makes Boone think that she made it herself.
Michael and Walt:
* Michael insists that he has a right to make a PB&J for his son, and won't let anyone else help.
* Mike shoots who ever is holding the ingredients (instead of just asking for them) so that he can make a sandwich for his son.
* Walt is appalled, refuses to eat the sandwich, refuses to be Mike's son, and sends a flock of birds to pummel Mike like Tippy Hedrin in The Birds.
:o)
Very funny thing to wake up to, Memphish! Good job, Darth Fenris! I'll have to really analyze how I make PB&J next time.
What a PB&J hoot!
Anybody got anything for Charlie, Juliet, Smokey, or Jacob?
Heheh, Smokey would probably make sandwiches out of people. :o)
Richard Alpert
1. Grows peanuts.
2. Grows grapes.
3. Grows wheat.
4. Questions young Locke on how to turn the three into a sandwich. Storms out frustrated by answer.
5. Hopes young Ben will know how to make a sandwich. Again is frustrated.
6. Grinds peanuts in donkey wheel himself.
7. Smears peanut butter on face.
(How else did he stay so young?)
LOL!
JOpinionated made a good point in her post on "316" wondering why Hurley was having trouble swimming in the lagoon. Didn't he willingly jump into the ocean as a cannonball in that scene with Bernard?
If Hurley came-to on the Island as disoriented as Jack did at first, then a water landing would have resulted in a good bit of panic. Not to mention water in the lungs.
Oh the PB &J humor is tooo funny!
Kyle: I guess some panic/disorientation would set in with what they just went through!
Juliet
1. Secretly perform groundbreaking research in sandwich making.
2. Accept offer to travel to secret island where sandwich-making skills are desparately needed.
3. At secret island, learn that peanut butter and jelly exist, but new sandwiches cannot be made.
4. Make demand to bug-eyed sandwich-making project leader: Let me take peanut butter and jelly off the island. Demand refused.
5. Do anything you can to get away from this whole sandwich-making business.
Also, if I remember correctly, that lagoon is fairly deep in the middle (I'm assuming it's the same one where Kate and Sawyer found her case). Suddenly waking up in the water and not being able to touch the bottom would be pretty freaky! For me, anyway. :)
Love it, Blue Heron! And we can't forget this step:
6. Show up at Jack's jail cell and say, "Hey! I made you a sandwich."
I wonder if the fertility problem is that the island makes the fetuses allergic to peanuts? ;-)
Mr. Eko
1. Sees PB&J sandwich in the jungle.
2. Doesnt eat or talk to the sandwich for 40 days which hurts its feelings.
3. Refuses to ask for the sandwich's forgiveness.
4. Sandwich comes alive and eats him.
nikki & Paulo
1. Poisens a guy to steal his PB&J sandwich.
2. Nikki thinks that Paulo wants to eat the sandwich all by himself.
3. Says Razzle Dazzle & Poisens the peanut butter.
4. later forgets and eats the sandwich and dies.
5. everyone is happy
Love it, Big Dog!
Lol everybuddy! X-D
oh too funny!!
let's not forget
Vincent:
1. smell peanut butter being spread
2. get close to the sandwich maker
3. grab the sandwich while the maker is distracted
4. run off into the jungle to share the sandwich with the polar bear.
I'm listening to a podcast and they raise a good question. If the Island is always moving, why did Ben have to move it? Did moving it change the equations for finding it and it's taken Hawking 3 years to recalculate?
Another question--why did Ben have Jack and crew meet him at the Long Beach Marina in the first place when they then went to the church and then the airport via the butcher? What was the whole point of that rendezvous location? I guess that was the unfinished business and has nothing to do with Penny. Yeah, that's what I'll cling to.
Darlton:
1. Pull visually appealing and mouthwatering sandwich out of lunch bag.
2. Walk around the lunch table showing all the other kids how great their sandwich is.
3. Put their sandwich back in the bag.
4. Pinch off tiny bites of the sandwich and hand them out to the other kids one delicious morsel at a time.
5. Tell the other kids that they should stop whining about being hungry because this sandwich has to last us 6 years.
Frogurt:
Makes peanut butter and banana sandwich.
"How am I going to grill this?"
*Flash*
Oops, I think it got burnt.
Memphish,
Good questions.
For the first, I'll assume that the island was moving before the DI found it, but that the DI found a way to "tether" it so they could transport materials and build on it. And it stayed tethered until Ben turned the ancient wheel.
As to the second, I have no clue. It seems like a secret rendevous point next to the church would serve just as well as a secret rendesvous point at the marina. Especially since time is of the essence.
Good sandwich stuff, everyone!
That's my guess too, Blue Heron. Ben untethered it. Before then it was either stationary or, more likely based on the info we've been given, it was moving in a predictable way, possibly only geographically and not along time.
Good one on Darlton!
But if it was tethered in Dharma days up to Ben's wheel turning, why couldn't Widmore find it until post key turning?
Charlie:
1. Decides to go into business making PB&Jam sandwiches.
2. Writes jingle "You all Peanut Buddy!"
3. Becomes addicted to peanut butter.
4. Goes cold turkey on the island until PB is discovered in the Swan Station.
5. Gets in a big fight when he discovers Hurley in the forest eating all the PB.
6. Decides to give his PB to Claire anyway.
7. Dies trying to save everyone from salmonella contaminated PB.
Hi all. The links between arrivals to the island is interesting as some people have mentioned.
Thinking of it, I've said before that I figured that Yemi was dead before he got to the island. So you have a dead body on three trips to the island. You also have heroine on the plane from Africa as you do with Charlie in the 815 crash. So maybe the condolences guy is a drug mule?
Or perhaps a priest?
Having said that there isn't complete links with all the arrivals but maybe they just need a number of factors to make it.
815 and Danielles crew had a pregnants woman. 815, the returnee's and Danielles had musical instruments.
So the Africans were missing a pregnancy and musical instruments. It seems Danielles were missing a corpse and heroine, though we don't know for sure. They both seem to have missed a Marshall.
My hunch is the two new people are both Others.
Sun and Kate, both who abandon children sure do act differently. I guess that's what true love gets you. I wonder if Sun asked any questions while Jack was parlaying Mrs. H like what about my baby, or does she just think she'll be able to get Jin and leave?
memphish
That's what I'm thinking. Sun thinks she can go to the island find Jin and leave.
I'm not sure anyone has been told they can't leave the island other than Jack. But it could be only Jack can't leave.
Yes, we haven't seen anyone other than Jack being told it's a one-way ticket. Jack was told to pack a bag with everything that's important to him...I wonder if that bag made it to the island, too?
Twinkle: Very funny Charlie PB&J!
i am not buying that sun or any of the rest of the O6 think they will be able to leave the island again. i think they are all making the choice to risk it.
they all saw the island disappear in front of their eyes and eloise is talking about the island being somewhere in time.
also what did Ben do with the mystery box that was in the hotel vent, could that have something to do with his unfinished business?
None of the O6 know about the time jumps though. Only Sun and Jack even heard her mention time and I'm sure they were like, yeah, right, when she said it. That is until the Dharma van with its slick paint job rolled up.
your right, hurley and kate were not there. hurley seems to want to go back to have peace. IMO kate wants to go back to continue her theme of running away from things, or maybe to sawyer. i still think Sun knows what she is doing. her and sayid have been gathering information about the island ever since they have been back.
that was a great scene when the van came through the bushes made even better by jin and his new suit.
do you think frank was able to land the plane? i would think if the plane didnt blow up he would be the pilot that could with the least amount of damage.
Besides encompassing a radius around the island (as witnessed by Jin time skipping around on the ocean), the island's sphere of influence just might extend upwards into the atmosphere. That would explain why the O6 experienced the same white flash when they time skipped them down to the island. I feel they just disappeared out of the plane like Jin did in front of Danielle at the Temple.
What if Kate beat the snot out of Ben because he came with his lawyer and Claire's mum to take Aaron?
nikki and paolo make sandwich, then fight over sandwich, tearing it in half, then die from tainted peanut butter.
i take it back about locke's legs looks like he gets in two car accidents
Happy Weekend LoCos!
I have another question about Mrs. Hawking's claim that the Island is always on the move as an explanation for rescuers failing to find them. If that's the case then how did the Freighter not lose the Island in the week or more that it was anchored outside the Island's radius?
And Capcom and other Vile Vortices fans, here's a couple of links for you. Hutchison Effect and Hutchison's Wiki.
I don't know memphish, but that is what the part I did not understand. That is why I was wondering if Mrs. Hawkings was referring to the island always moving in time, but maybe staying put geographically. And then Ben moved it geographically. But that doesn't really make a lot of sense either. So I don't know.
Yeah, that definitely needs to be explained further, Memphis. One would think if the island you're standing on is moving, that would be felt or experienced somehow. And to thwart a rescue, it would have to be "moving" great distances. And if it's moving in time only, wouldn't that be experienced somehow. And why would Christian tell Locke to move the island, if it's already been moving.
i do not assume that everything that hawkings says is total truth. Like was said before, if what she said to desmond before about course corrections and not being able to change things was true, then why the effort to grab the ajira plane wouldn't everything just fall into place without her or anyone else trying?
to me the shoes on locke thing felt more like the leap of faith of pressing the 108 clock mentioned in the pearl video,"the people think their mission is of the utmost importance", i feel rather then all the little tweaks they made for the flight like the shoes or the guitar case really working, it's more about jack and the gang "believing" their mission is of the utmost importance, for it to suceed anyway and i dont think we are clear on what that mission is....
sorry we are not clear on the mission yet.
Good point about Mrs. H 2Costa. Her trustworthiness is certainly in doubt though I think the producers have said her course correction stuff was a rule they are working by.
I was thinking maybe the Swan Hatch and its electromagnetic properties control the opening of the windows to travel to the Island. If the button is pushed, the electromagnetism is dispersed and the window (wormhole Kyle?) does not open. But with the Swan computer gone you can use these equations the DI used to find the Island once again. So that explains how Widmore sent the freighter. He had Hawking calculate a window for it. (Though that still doesn't explain the whole moving/not moving thing unless there's some rule like it moves every 3 weeks and we were within that window during freighter time.) So the incident wasn't really an incident instead it was there mechanism for controlling Island access. Then as an alternative to this form of Island access they developed the Looking Glass with a different set of coordinates and signals you can use to navigate to/from the Island. It also explains what happened when 815 crashed in terms of Desmond not pushing the button and allowing the window to open. I guess I'd also have to speculate that there was a similar miss when the Beechcraft crashed on Radzinsky or Kelvin's watch. Maybe that was the day Kelvin buried Radzinsky. But as for the Black Rock it just wandered across a window and poof.
I've always also thought Juliet and Desmond arrived the same day on the Island. I think whatever window the Others opened to permit Juliet's arrival Desmond came through as well. Same for Rousseau, or perhaps storms (which have electromagnetic properties) open a second sort of window if they are in the Island's area.
Didn't Ms. (Don't believe a word I say) Hawking say that the windows don't stay open very long?
Ben Lundy has made a nice blog post about the good and bad things Lost has done over it's run. It's entertaining and I agree with him. You might want to check it out.
Thanks for that link, Memphish. Great Best and Worst list...especially the #1 Best being keeping Michael Emerson as Ben!
The window that Ms. Hawking refers to is open for at least 72 hours, right? So maybe sometimes the island is in the same place for a week or more, allowing the freighter to find it. Remember Naomi said that they were given coordinates in the middle of the ocean - she was flying over in the helicopter, and then suddenly the island was below her. So, maybe they arrived at the window right before the island did.
Maybe Christian told Locke to move the island meaning move the island now, rather than waiting for the next window to open. Kind of like forcing a reboot.
Great observations everyone! :-)
Thanks for the vortices links Memphish! Yummy!
Maybe the moving island conundrum can be solved like this (until TPTB tell us how they're doing it that is): perhaps the island moves by itself, say, every 5 years; but you can move it any time you want with the FDW. ????? That would separate its automatic movements from the manual ones anyway.
Oops, somehow I missed reading your post about the island moving Melissa! So, yeah, what you said too, heheh. :-B
seems to me that the clip of locke saying he remembers dieing, might be after the ajira crash and not before like most of us have speculated. He and sayid's marshal are on a beach and he's eating like some tropical fruit. Now that would be crazy cool if he is fully reincarnated, not just an apparition
might also explain how jin could survive so long in the water, meaning he didn't but was reanimated by floating back into the islands sphere of influence
whats with the black eyes on this bunny from last week looks like locke in claire's dream..
http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/5411d2ef07c5207b10f5c018c3efbcbe
Yes, that bunny freaked me out pretty much too, 2costa!
Maybe it's Richard Alpet in bunny form, and he still has thick black eyelashes, heheh.
Anyone still hungry?
Keamy:
1) Works up an appetite by doing 4,815 push-ups.
2)Finds a loaf of soft and innocent bread.
3)Opens the PB&J jars with his big bulgy Keamy muscles.
4)Pulls out his throat cutting hunting knife.
5)The PB&J are so scared they jump out of the jar, and lay quivering on the pieces of bread.
6)Decides to make plenty of extra sandwiches, so he and the boys can load them into the skeet machine for some target practice later.
Good one, TAV!
2costa said...seems to me that the clip of locke saying he remembers dieing, might be after the ajira crash and not before like most of us have speculated. He and sayid's marshal are on a beach and he's eating like some tropical fruit. Now that would be crazy cool if he is fully reincarnated, not just an apparition
Perhaps that was the purpose of Ben's "Doubting Thomas" speech in the church. Maybe Jack will encounter a resurrected/reincarnated Locke and have to believe even though it doesn't make scientific sense.
ABC should have included this disclaimer before the Pilot aired.
LOST; The don't ask-don't tell drama, guaranteed to have you scratching your heads for at least six years.
My head itches.
TAV: It's what they call a Leap of Faith!
I'm not Darth Fenris btw. I would never advertise which side of the force I'm on. ;)
LOL Village! Mmmmmmm, "big bulgy Keamy muscles", I want some with my sammich!! :o)
Very nice thought about Locke's resurrection and Jack's disbelief, Scoutpost.
I feel kind of blase about this episode for some reason. Is it just me? Not that I didn't like it, or that I feel it wasn't a good episode, because I did and it was. Maybe because it was almost a sraight linear storyline (except for being bookended with the same scenes) and I'm not used to that with Lost! Thanks a lot to TPTB, now I'm so used to the jumping around, when we get a normal episode it seems weird to me. :-p
Capcom,I felt that way too about 316. Lost-lite.
I really enjoyed it,but the last ones were so wild, that to me this one seemed tame in comparison.
I guess I'm the only one glad for the tameness.
I felt blase about all the other ones except for Jughead and this one because all the others jumped around so much.
Hey, Fenris! My 6 yr old has recently chosen the dark side, he says. Ah well! At least he knows the dark side loses.
Nice one for Keamy!
I wondered earlier if the rejuvenation properties on the island are the result of the island returning the body to a previous point on its timeline.
I felt exactly opposite of Capcom and Sayid's Girl. I loved 316 despite the bitchy librarian delivery of Mrs. Hawking and the obtuseness of Jack and was far, far from blown away by Jughead.
I was listening to a podcast today and thinking about what Mrs. H said about unpredictability given their inability to reproduce the conditions of 815 precisely. What stood out to me was that unpredictability was acceptable whereas not going at all wasn't. I'm also wondering whose proxy Ben might be. And Jack also was just himself instead of a proxy.
I know I probably need to stop thinking about it too much and just take a leap of faith.
Check out this awesome photo from Jorge's blog.
Interesting Memphish about 316. I had a really tough week emotionally, so I think that has a lot to do with my not being able to get too excited about this ep, I'm just worn out.
Awesome pic of Hurley, wow!
oh no
there was christian references in this episode.
the large squeling one will get SO excited.
Memphish
I think you misunderstood me. I was meanig this one 316 and Jughead were my favorites so far.
hi all!
I hope we now get more jumping around with flashbacks and stuff now that we have the O6 back and gaps to fill in. I'm soooo glad the writers didn't drag this on for a whole season. And they easily could have done it, but it wouldn't have been easy to watch it!
So...does Aaron need to get back, and if so, perhaps by another method? What about Ji Yeon? Desmond? Can Penny come too, with Charlie? What about Walt?
argh...it's just a show...I should really just relax...
...for Mystery Lost Theater 3000!
:o)
I was thinking about this for a while, if we agree that there is some kind of tie between Christian and Locke, since Locke is his proxy. Well then maybe Christian also knew he had to die before he went back to the island, that gives his answer to sawyer in the bar about why he is there,"Because I'm a coward", a whole different slant. He couldn't bring himself to commit suicide, so he did the cowards version of suicide, drinking himself to death. It must have to be a certain way you die, because otherwise Ben would have killed Locke, instead of convincing him to kill himself.
Another parallel that i thought of was between charlie and Locke. Perhaps the island can only reanimate you if you die in a certain way that doesn't require major repair to the body. For instance when Ethan kidnapped Charlie and hung him from the tree, perhaps charlie did die for a moment, but the island brought him back to life and not jacks chest pounding. Perhaps that can partly explain how Locke could be reanimated, but say doc ray couldn't because his throat was slit. Or Mikhail could come back form the sonic fence because nothing was too damaged. Almost makes me think of in the princess bride how miracle max could bring back the dude because he wasn't dead dead, just sort of dead
I loved the episode this week, but I did get annoyed that there was no explanation of why they need to recreate the same circumstances of the original flight. I could have handled a bit of technobable, but just saying have faith is very frustrating.
We now know that Locke, Christian and Ray all have the same shoe size, is this significant :-)
Ben's status as team punch bag is restored.
I think there were other people on the flight that we know and will be revealed in future episodes.
They are definitely back in old DI times.
Stop talking about sandwiches, I'm starving and it's at least an hour until lunchtime.
Sorry for the misunderstanding Sayid's Girl.
I'm listening to Lostcasts and they brought up a neat idea, one we've skirted around since we saw Rousseau's group, the idea that every group that has arrived on the Island are some sort of proxy. That is every group has a musician (Charlie, Hurley now, the violin case in Rousseau's group, someone in the 1954 Others camp), every group has a separated married couple, every group has a dead guy, every group has a pregnant woman, every group has a fugitive, every group has the next leader sort of thing.
So it's no so much a time loop for each character perhaps, but it is time loops for character types. I have to say I kind of like that idea better than the characters themselves looping, but then again we've got the notion that the same group of people can be proxies for other people they actually know.
Another crazy notion from Lostcasts -- Jin back in Dharma days teaches young Charlotte Korean!
A couple of recaps are now equating Kate to Shannon because she's being extra bitchy and her hook up before departure that she wants to forget now. I'd much prefer that to her being pregnant.
yay
only two more days to LOST!
(glad you got my MS3K reference, Cap!)
I was wondering if Chang could be Korean and she learned Korean from him.
But I like Jin teaching her better.
I love the idea that Jin's part time security and part time Korean teacher!
Memphish said.... Another crazy notion from Lostcasts -- Jin back in Dharma days teaches young Charlotte Korean!
So who taught her Klingon ? Should we be expecting a visit from Mr Worf !
Bwahahaaa, Zort!
Definitely Amused! One of my all-time fave shows! :o) In case you didn't know, Mike Nelson now does RiffTrax with some of the MST3K guys, and razzes movies on MP3 files that you can get and synch up with your DVD player. They do the Lost pilot too! You can check out samples of all the movies and TV that they do here: http://www.rifftrax.com/
Interesting theories Memphish and 2costa.
Memphish: Love all the ideas coming from that podcast! Character-types in each group makes so much more sense. And it would be awesome is Jin teaches young Charlotte Korean (teaching a tough language in a child is much easier).
So quick rundown everyone in prep for upcoming episodes:
1) Where do you think Aaron is?
2) Who told Hurley to come to the boat?
3) Who beat up Ben/is Penny dead?
4) Who got Sayid arrested?
5) Is Walt in the back of the plane?
BTW, the episode this week is extra, extra long according to my cable provider. It's running 6 minutes past the hour, so update your recording devices accordingly.
Guess I should answer my own questions too: :-)
1. Aaron is with Mrs. Littleton
2. Charlie's ghost told Hurley what to do
3. Widmore's people beat up Ben; Penny and Charlie Hume are safe
4. Ben got Sayid arrested
5. I hope Walt's on the plane because it's driving me batty!
#4) Either Ben with his goons went to get Sayid (and Sayid made it very unpleasant, as he promised), or just the goons got him and someone else beat up Ben.
#5) Yes please!!!
1. Aaron has been taken by Widmore (Kate is now working for him)
2. Most definitely Charlie, and possibly others from the island dead.
3. I think Ben went to confront Widmore and gloat that he was going back to the island. Widmore was ready for him and got his muscle to beat Ben up.
4. Sayid was manipulated into being arrested by Ben.
5. Waaaaaaaallllltttttt, will appear on the island at some point, but he wasn't on the plane. If you don't believe me - have faith !
1) I'm probably way off but I think he's with Ji Yeon
2) Charlie of course. :)
3) Widmore's goons but I like Sayid capcom. I hope Penny and little Charlie are ok. I think Ben being at the marina may be a red herring.
4) Ben
5) I don't know, but it is werid that Locke went to see him but he's not on the plane.
Maybe it's because he left at a different time than the rest.
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