This is turning into a really great week for television. First, Amanda Overmyer gets voted off American Idol and then tonight we've got a highly anticipated installment of LOST being teased with a clip of Sayid saying to Michael, "Start from the beginning and explain how you came to be on this boat." Hopefully the happenings of this episode will give us plenty to talk about until the show's April 24th return.
Thursday, March 20, 2008
Meet Kevin Johnson - Season 4, Episode 8
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 303 of 303memphish said...
"Here's a question for those of you who think Ben had Karl and Danielle killed -- if he could do that, why send Juliet after Dan and Charlotte? Why not have this crack hit team get them too?"
It works if you don't believe it was Ben who sent Harper to tell Juliet to kill Dan and Charlotte... that Harper was working on her own for her own reasons...
Kyle/TheBookPolice said...
Another thought:
"Tom: "Did the bullet bounce off your skull, or did the gun just jam up on you?" (or something very close to that, anyway)
Does that sound like a question one AA member might ask another about his lowest point? Did Tom try to off himself at some point, too?"
Good point! To me it did sound like Tom was speaking from experience...
OK, I have one question.... if it's Michael in the coffin, how could he die? Does that mean that his "work" was done and the island finally killed him or let him commit suicide? Is that why Jack is so upset about it? Jack knows now that once their "work" is done, they'll die or be killed? If Kate's "work" is to raise Aaron, she's at least got several years, but if Jack's work is to be the mouthpiece of the lie of 815, his "work" might be almost over.
as i said before, tom as harper is one of the only others to be privy to bens secret plan. Partly why tom had to die, to cover up all of bens manipulations of his own people. I also dont know for sure if danielle is dead, i'm even starting to think that ben may really be alex's father. whoever said it is right that karls spidey sense was right on and ben had that all planned, if just to ensure alex doesnt become pregnant..
ben wanted the gas disabled so it couldnt be used agains the others and himself, he just never wants people to think hes getting what he wants. I even think that ben wanted sayid to rat out mike because that is what is gonna put the 815'ers in the crosshairs. Ive been saying for a while that ben wanted the 815'ers to seem like they are working with ben, or at least the 815'ers have gone mad and are destroying all the dharma infrastructure, living in the barracks will do them no favors when the freightys arrive. From the looks of the preveiw, we may have been right about dan shutting down the island force field, or how else are the freightys gonna land in mass numbers on the island with their guns. I think ben had his first widmore spy caught on purpose in order to lead widmore to the island like a horse chasing a carrot...
Tom's AA like statement also reminds me of Klugh's willingness to die at Mikhail's hand. If Ben's chosen ones can bounce around in time like Billy Pilgrim, they already know how and when they will die which leaves them free to enjoy the rest of their lives. Maybe that's partly what's going on.
Codysmom, I agree that could be Harper working on her own to get her revenge on Juliet.
According to EW's recap, Doc Jensen is in Hawaii and Kristin from E is going next week. Avoiding spoilers is going to be hard.
memphish, yes, but it has a lot of holes. the island is the one character in this story that will always survives and seems to have even greater manipulation powers than ben.
mike's car, yes it was an old car but i thought the radio was rather new.
2costa said...
ben wanted the gas disabled so it couldnt be used agains the others and himself, he just never wants people to think hes getting what he wants.
I agree with this
im not sure if the island is just ben and all his manipulations.
two things when mike was in the hospital it sure seemed like Alvar hanso was his roommate...
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg162/getlostpodcast/pict2008-03-2011-50-4211.jpg
another thing is ben's "not yet" bomb reminded me of the biblical story of abraham and issac. it wasnt until Abe was willing to kill issac that god showed him his real plan, and it wasnt until mike was gonna kill himself and the crew that ben declared him one of the good guys. Plus it was like those old cartoon bombs or guns that had a paper that said bang.
what do u make of the missing pieces where christain tells vincent that jack "still has work to do" related to walt saying it and tom saying it?
you might be right big dog, but im only thinking its 1994 or something in that part, because the car is way way older than that. As i said i have to rewatch it...
the not yet bomb may have been mike gesture to the island that ben demands , like locke having to slay cooper...
People drive old cars.
Folks as always it is a pleasure to share Lost thoughts with you good people.
Everyone have a blessed and safe easter weekend.
the seeming appearance of the actor that played alvar in tle being mikes bunk mate, gives me hope well see mittlewerk at some point. Maybe mike was rehabbed in a hanso hospital, which seems to go with our assumption that ben works for the hanso foundation, but hanso is splintered with mittlewerk going rougue and bringing widmore with him... It always bothered me that alvar hanso seemed out of the island loop in tle, considering his grandpa discovered the isalnd way back when...
Not only do people drive old cars, but poor people who can't get real jobs because they have no legit IDs and live in gross little apartments drive old cars.
its doesnt matter when mike crashed, because if it was in the present, it took a special hanso hospital to get mike up and running so quickly after the crash. in order to tie together the fact that mike left the island and tom only had a few days to recruit him before the frieghter was set to leave, thats why i think the freighter might have been responding to press77 instead of the purpling
I really wish I didn't have a hair appt... see ya'll later...
if it was the present it might also tie to the white smoke. WE have always seen the yin yang dualism of the island with he gems or the backgammon or chess, but what if theres white smoke and black smoke? it would also fit nicely with toms inverse redemption tale where we see him die then see maybe why he died, not his down low lifestyle, but the fact that he would always want to keep leaving the island, unless it became fire island...
if you look at the dark ufo easter eggs it seems like 99.9 percent that alvar is mikes roommate in the hospital/
i also still think that the way mike said it "you killed ana lucia, and er libby" that it can be open to interpretation, maybe he was supposed to kill ana lucia for ben, but not libby, just a possability
I find it odd that people on the Freighter know that Charles Widmore hired them. Wouldn't Widmore want to remain more shadowy if he's up to no good?
i think they may be like blackwater, in that they are maxwell or widmores private army...
All right, I'm all dressed up and ready to leave for prom but I need to say a few things before I head off:
1.) Here's a link that tells you for certain who killed Danielle its kind of spoiler-ish, but its from AOL: http://television.aol.com/franchise/top5
2.)Good to see you Thrash! Its been a while.
3.)And I have a theory of how Aaron gets into Kate's hands: In an emotional scene, someone (probably Farraday) creates a screening process for those who are able to leave the Island. Aaron and the rest of the o6 can, Claire and the others can't without side effects. Claire believes life for Aaron will be better off off the island, so she entrusts him to Kate
See y'all later...
If it is really the Freighter's intention to kill all 815 survivors they would permit Kevin Johnson to crew with them so they could take him out too. That would then leave only Walt unaccounted for.
Why do the Freighter Folk want Ben alive? Why was the plan remove Ben and then kill everyone? Why not just gas the whole Island and take out Ben too?
I think we've seen enough to confirm that most of the people on the Freighter believe their mission is not to rescue any of the 815ers but rather to kill them. Miles and Keamy seem to confirm this. But if that's the case, why are they keeping Sayid, Desmond and Kevin Johnson around still?
i dont think that they(the main meathead freighty crew with machine guns) even know for sure about flight 815, remember naomi was surpirsed that 815'ers are on the island. The freightys are there to kill the others, becuase the 77 button was pressed indicating that the hostiles have taken over the island. We cant forget that widmore paik and hanso(mittlewerk) seem to all be working together, so this could be the hanso foundations response to a hostile takeover..
did anyone have any ideas to how beardy jack doesnt know where the island is? The only thing i cant think is the whole alkatraz thing of a floating island or as i said before somehow jack never see sayid or desmond again to be told the island is by the last port of fiji... I think a lot of people were dissapaonted that there wasnt more time travel or whatever type explaination for how mike found himself aboard the freighter, but the fact that ben has this precise puppetmaster plan still leads me to believe that Ben has knowledge of the timeline...like for instance how could ben be sure mike would act excactly how he wanted post island, or that mike would be suicidal and tell walt about the murders? Well maybe hes ahs seen this all play out before and is just doing his minor tweaks...
im surpirsed nobody has commented on what seems to be a dead ringer for alvar hanso in mike's hospital room.
i agree that mike was probably right off the island with his car crash, cause otherwise the vision of libby wouldnt have meant anything, but how mike walked away from that crash without a scratch seems to need explaining. It also reminds me of how mike was hit by the car before in the flashback, was that the island keeping him alive then too?
they obviously had old footage of walt or cgi'ed him into loking how he looked in 2001, but why was he old when he came to locke, well my best guess is either of the time lord factions went to walt in 2004 or later and had him get locke to pull himself out of the pit and finish his work he has to do. All it would take is ben being alive and off island in 2004. Im also thinking that since nobody saw kate before the flight for a while except the marshal that she is gonna pass of aaron as her own, interesting that christain seems to be an island postmordem player, that his grandson is well taken care of by kate off the island...
i think i read something a long time ago about the producers filming something with walt before he aged, to air at a way later date...
I don't know what to make of a potential Alvar Hanso roommate, so while I agree they look similar, I've got nothing to add to that.
As for Jack not knowing how to get to the Island. My guess is a) when he leaves he thinks he'll never, ever want to get back there so he doesn't pay attention, b) those that leave are drugged like Juliet was when she came, c) Jack promised he'd never return and Jack keeps his promises.
I also think in TTLG Jack is just getting started looking for the Island. The plan of flying over the Pacific hoping to crash is a pretty poor one. I don't think he's started taking rational steps like hiring a boat to find it yet. I think he's still torn until the end of TTLG over whether or not he really should return. He's hoping as he's flying that fate will step in and decide for him.
Also, say they leave the Island and end up in the ocean where the freighter is. It's not like there are landmarks for them to orient themselves by. Even as passengers the best they would know is we sailed roughly East for 3 days and landed in X locale. It's not going to be easy to find again even if the cloaking is no longer optimized.
maven said...
Agree with you, Bigdog, that Ben always seems to be ready for any contingency and conveniently had Tom had "proof" over to Michael. He knew that Michael would ask for it.
Not disagreeing that Ben may be telling the truth, because you never can tell and he has been known to drop a truthful nugget now and then, but I have hard time believing the paperwork is authentic after seeing how easily they can forge a passport.
I thought that the man laying next to Michael was also Alvar. They have to incorporate him into the story at some point right? Where has the smoke monster been hiding anyway? I doubt that Ben had Karl and Russo killed, those guns sounded far more advanced than the older style guns and rifles they have been using.
toms timing for his meeting with mike and the proof, flight 815 being found, makes me lean towards ben being behing the freckage, he could have easily faked the documents that pointed to widmore or they could be working together. How would tom have all the widmore proof about the freckage right as the freckage is being found. AS we know ben acted like 815 crashing was a surprise when it happened so that was his fake plan, but for him to have all this info already about the survivors(i know mikhail had dossiers worked up) seems to point to ben knowing about the crash before it happened, remember their are two differnt kind of files the manilla and the red. It seems too convienent that widmore would send a plane load of useful people to ben if they arent working together, plus if widmore knew about 815, then why wait so long to send the freighter, he would have known where it crashed and how, in order to even come up with a freckage plan, like i said before i think they will get rid of the widmore people, so why does jack and hugo have to go back, cause ben is an A-hole. He orchestrated this whole war to make the remaining 815'ers think they have no choice but to stay on the island, as we have discussed before, ben is interested in permanently shutting down the island from the outside world. and the war makes a good reason for the remaining others to be on board with cutting ties to the outside world, hence the need to solve the fertility problem. To bolster my theory that the island can move or become invisible, Why doesnt abbadon know where the island is anyomore when he come to visit hurley?if he did, why wouldnt he find out if their still alive on the island himself or send another freighter. The widmores already think that the 815'ers are bens lacheys,especially after mike, so that explains why the italien guy was so scared of sayid when he found out he was an oceanic 6, because anyone in the widmore loop knows the 815'ers, at least the locke faction if not all, are bens pet's
the only thing im gonna say about alvar being in mikes room, is there was no reason to have a roomate for mike as far as the scene or story goes. And they delibaretely panned over to his roommate. My question is if thats alvar, how did he get so much better healthwise by the time tle happened, maybe it has to do with the blood tranfusions, maybe mike gave a little blood to alvar. I have my suspicions that ben is an ally with alvar, and widmore works with the rouge hanso foundation led by mittlewerk
There's a new OLP audio podcast. Check your iTunes or your ABC website. I'll listen later this afternoon.
Jack of Jay and Jack think Alex is pregnant. I noticed some belly touching last night too, but I really hope she's not. I'm over the pregnant storyline.
some comments after catching up:
thanks to whoever made the Tom timeline. I think it was Memphish. After seeing it, I still think that is too tight of a window for Tom. Tom even says he doesn't make it off the island that often. We see Tom several days later when Michael joins the freigher (I beleive Tom said the freighter left Figi in 4 days) in the NY penthouse. I'm leaning towards Tom has Mikhail like powers. Maybe the island wouldn't let him die like Locke? And I definetely don't think Tom showed up a week after Michael got off the island. It would take Michael and Walt some time to figure out a plan and get settled back into life.
Did anyone see my theory? I agree that the freightees heleive they will be going to war to get Ben. Their not looking for 815 to rescue people, and no one has ever said they planned to. Their looking for 815 because they beleiev it is on the island where they can find Ben.
Ben knows war is imminent, so by sending his group of chosen people to the Temple, and letting Team Locke move into otherville, Ben has made it appear that the survivors are the "others." The freighter folks won't know the difference, especially since they are with Ben.
I see it as a shoot first, ask questions later thing. If the freightees quizzed Team Locke, they would find out who they are. But I don't see that happening. I think several Losties will die in the war. Especially since many of them are deemed damaged good by Ben's definition of good people.
The good ones will survive and Ben will decide to let some go to create the illusion that the freighter found these people while looking for something else and that the island doesn't exist.
I can buy that Diggity that Ben is setting up Team Locke to look like Team Ben.
Tom tells Michael that he's not going to the Island, but to kill everyone on the Freighter, so why don't they have him do that? There's some giant missing piece here. I think Michael tries to set off the bomb before Naomi lands on the Island, in fact several days before that. Why didn't Ben just go with that plan instead of the fine mess we're in now?
Not Alvar next to Michael. Chin's too weak. I think the hospital is just a hospital.
the podcast was lame this week. No meat at all about Ji Yeon or Kevin Johnson. Bummed. I was hoping for something good.
Memphis said:
Here's a question for those of you who think Ben had Karl and Danielle killed -- if he could do that, why send Juliet after Dan and Charlotte? Why not have this crack hit team get them too?
Because Ben wanted Juliet to stop them. Harper told her that when Juliet asked why she didn’t she stop them. When Juliet asks how Harper tells her to point the gun and pull the trigger. Ben likes to manipulate people and he’s playing mind games with Juliet. She told Jack this. He wanted me to kill them, Ben he told me to kill both of them. He knew how to get to me.
I could go either way with who was doing the shooting. But for now I'm going with it was planned by Ben.
The problem I have with it being Reamy's team is I can't see Frank standing by while this happens but I could be wrong. He may not be with them but in the jungle waiting by the helicopter and not knowing what is going on.
he did the bomb to test mikes loyalty, who knows if its even an active bomb, ben knew where mike stood after he learned that he really detonated the bomb. Ben wants miles, charlotte, dan, and maybe frank, on the island and ssayid making it to the freighter is part of bens plan, so thats why he had the bomb not work. Ben has so many resources he could destroy the freighter himself, which all bolsters the thought that this is all one big long con by Ben, maybe widmore isnt in on it or maybe he is. Tom staying in the penthouse in the earle and having mike job and passport ready seems to point to Ben having a lot of resources himself. The plane seeming to be a definite fake also makes the tunesian dharma polar bear seem more likely a fake as well, meant to lure Charlotte onto the freighter, after all mikes mission doesnt seem like its intel, so how did ben already know who charlotte was? Ben has some damn good spys to get those close up pics of all the widmore freckage proof, like the shot of the graves with a hint of the 815 seating chart under it. Obviously Tom was lying when he said they couldnt leave the island after the purpling or their communications were down, because thats exactly when he would have had to leave to get to manhatten. Plus ben was obviously using the radio on the island to talk to mike on the freighter, and thats where the looking glass comes in, Ben probably had bonnie unjam the signal so he could make his call to mike on the freighter...
still think thats alvar. Who doesnt have a weak chin lying on their back? in the comparison photo they look like dead ringers. The more intrigueing question is if its alvar, why doesnt he have a private room?
Unfortunately, there is no listing for this ep on IMDB of the other patient next to Mike. And under his name, Ian Patrick Williams, there's no LOST listing. Is there anywhere else that we can look up who played the patient/Alvar? Maybe I'll watch the credits again and see if I can find him. That would be the clincher.
Ok I just typed out a long comment and blogger completely lost it!
I'll try to come back up with it later...meanwhile- good comments everyone! (bummer)
Hey peeps,
Just wanted to point something out.
While I have never been a fan of his nonsense, I still go to his site every now and then for a laugh. But the Misfit actually found something that I find most odd. He has a set of pics up.
THeMiSFiTiSHeRE
One of a guy on the island holding a water bottle, standing behind Kate... and the second is the guy that Sun mistook for Jin while giving Birth... They are the same guy. Is this why he bugged out and ran off so fast. Is he spying on Sun for someone else. Does he work for Widmore, or Ben, or someone else?
Or did TPTB just decide to give this Sock an extra little part?
All a bit strange if you ask me.
Could maybe be significant, or not. Lots of old screencaps show re-used extras that are ridiculously redundant in adjacent scenes of previous eps. It would be weird if it was truly the same guy following her around tho. It just felt like there were Widmore/Ben lackeys hanging around the hospital during that scene!
Ded, I'd guess that's probably DDK's stand-in in both instances. They seem to use stand-ins as extras a lot. For example, there's the girl that looks like Claire who wears the bandana in her hair who is now on Team Locke. There are several women who look a lot like Kate in the background often too.
Something Abaddon said back in "Confirmed Dead" really hit home with me after viewing "Meet Kevin Johnson". This may have been already mentioned, but anyway, here goes...
Abaddon was talking with Naomi about her "assignment", presumably to infiltrate the island and capture Ben. And then Naomi said something like "But what if there are survivors from 815 on the island?" to which Abaddon replied "There are no survivors of 815" to which Naomi replied "Yes, but what if there are" to which Abaddon replied "There ARE NO SURVIVORS of 815"
This reveals several things:
1) Both Abaddon and Naomi know that the plane "freckage" is indeed fake
2) This could imply that Widmore is behind the freckage. Or, it could back up Captain Gault's claim that the freckage is one of the reasons they are after Ben. However, that would imply that they have good intentions toward possible survivors.
3) The fact that Abaddon is adamant about the fact that "there are NO SURVIVORS of 815" implies that they have no intention of rescuing anyone. In fact, they seem as if they will go to lengths to make sure that no one blows the "freckage" story, whether because it is Widmore's handiwork or because it may compromise the "secret island" and its location
4) I think maybe it more implies that Widmore is behind the "freckage", because that would explain how he is in possession of the supposed "black box", although I can't figure out why he would have sent it out on the freighter, unless it's not actually the blackbox in question or they intend to use it against Ben in some way. Wow, we definitely need some more info on this...I didn't realize how many different angles this had until I started typing out this post.
Also, I am fairly certain that Tom went and visited Michael before he was killed on the island. Simply because he sent Michael to the frieghter and he didn't die until after Naomi had already landed on the island. I am fairly certain that there can be somewhere in the timeline where this will pan out. And we aren't exactly certain of every possible means on or off the island and how long such trips take. Cooper certainly seemed to appear out of thin air...didn't he?
Also, I believe the off-island flashback was all in the same period of time and all post-island. This is due to the fact that if you pay attention to Michael's apartment at the beginning of the epi when he is pinning the suicide? note to his jacket and then when he is about to try and kill himself again and he sees the news footage of the 815wreckage, it is the same apartment. I seriously doubt he lived somewhere, disappeared for 2 months, came back, changed his name, and rented the exact same apartment.
Oh, and it's good to see you guys again. It's been quite awhile since I posted.
Good Morning!
I just caught up on comments after this episode.
2costa said...
I have my suspicions that ben is an ally with alvar, and widmore works with the rouge hanso foundation led by mittlewerk
I definitely concur, 2costa!! Been saying the same thing (once, I think I posted it a while back). I really do think that tle will tie in to the show in a big way before the end as far as the Hanso, Widmore, Paik trio go (a consortium of sorts!)
Diggitydirge said...
Ben knows war is imminent, so by sending his group of chosen people to the Temple, and letting Team Locke move into otherville, Ben has made it appear that the survivors are the "others." The freighter folks won't know the difference, especially since they are with Ben.
I agree, diggity. I think Ben is a powerful player and that he will do whatever it takes to preserve his little kingdom.
2costa said...
still think thats alvar. Who doesnt have a weak chin lying on
their back? in the comparison photo they look like dead ringers. The more intrigueing question is if its alvar, why doesnt he have a private room?
Yep, Alvar...I am of the opinion that if that is Alvar, and tle is actually starting to tie in, then Michael and Alvar are patients in a hospital owned or run by Hanso Foundation under the rogue Mittlewerk. There was mention of blood transfusions in tle. Perhaps Alvar had to have that transfusion from someone who had spent time on the island (Michael). Alvar might have needed that blood to "heal" from some affliction that has no known cure (cancer,etc.) and hence, the ventilator and other life-support equipment. I really believe that after the purge, Dharma/Hanso lost contact with the island and could not find it so easily until now. So there was an urgent need, Mittlewerk could not afford to have Hanso die, he needed him alive but controlled to
retain power within the Hanso Foundation.
xxoo
Awesome observations Ellen...
Ded...I still check in on that site too, have to keep tabs on Mike Rotch and all...LOL
Antecedent??? Holy crap!! It has been a long time...welcome back.
I guess the Alvar and other mysteries will have to keep us all busy and wondering until 4/42!!!
Hey fellow Locos. Long time, no commenting :) Just checkin' in... off to read the comments and get a handle on this episode. Was interrupted quite a few times during the show (oh how I hate when that happens) and missed some bits and pieces.
im thinking that aisian guy from the island w/ the water bottle and the delivery room works for mr. Paik. Ill have to check, but isnt that guy on jacks beardy oceanic flight as well? AS one of the first proponents of the island people being blood donors for alvar, i hope that angle pans out.
i rewatched the crash of mikes car into the cargo contianer, and I agree with all of you that it was right after he left the island, not only does he have the same appartment, but he also has the exact sterio i have in my car today. The interesting thing about it was how fast he healed from that wreck, with no airbag. Another thing that was weird in that clip was the white smoke that engulfed the wreck, didnt behave like regular smoke, it lingered around the wreck, even falling downward, instead of up or whatever direction the wind was blowing, for that kind of weird smoke behavior, you would need almost no wind at all or even wind blowing down, which doesnt happen as far as i know.
One thing that makes me think Ben arrainged for mike to kill ana lucia, but not libby, Bens plan to recruit mike, seemed to hinge on him wanting to kill himself, and we thought it was over ana and libby. The way mike said to ben you killed ana lucia, and er pause libby", ben"no you did that micheal". It can be taken as he had to kill ana, but libby was an accident. Ben could have easily shown how ana is a cold blooded killer to mike while in cpativity. The other possability is that the sickness effect if either manipulatable by ben or at least predictable. As far as I know jack didnt do any cold blodded killing and started feeling like mike in his beardy days.
Another possability that nobody seems to remember is maybe they outfitted mike with a chip like they put in clare, when they wanted to make her look sick they triggered it. Maybe this microchip can make mike suicidal?Bens plan is too precise to rely on human emotions alone.
AS i said before I think that ben didnt have mike blow up the boat because he is using all of this freighter drama to make mike think he is "one of the good guys" so that he stays on the island and to get him seperated from walt, and thats how ben plans on manipulating taller ghost walt in the future...
Ellen said..."a consortium of sorts":
There are so many factions here to deal with, you might call it a "consortium of consortiums"! :o)
i agree that abbaddon doesnt want any 815'ers to leave the island, but that doesnt mean widmore did the freckage, it just mean widmore doesnt want anyone else to find the island, or already thinks the 815'ers are working for ben, to an outsider it might seem that all the 815'ers were already working for ben, and the freckage was just a way to get them on the island full time, like a cia spy thats family thinks hes dead. I still think ben is behind the freckage, i think its even possible, that ben working with alvar put out a doctored black rock journal that would lead widmore to the freckage and left loose ends like ladipus in order to lure widmore to the island like a fly to a spider web. I still think its fishy that ben has all this knowledge about how the freckage was faked on the day it was discovered. SO its quite possible that the black rock journal only led him to the freckage, but the pupling showed him the true location of the island, what are the chances that penny could have the guys monitoring magnetic anomilies, w/ chuck's knowlegde
I asked how jack or abbadon doesnt know how to get back to the island, either the island can move or the island doesnt always exist in our time or reality, that we are just spoiled now after the pupling, to be able to see it full time on radar and such.
from what i gather toms penthouse stay had to be right after he told kate she wasnt his type, maybe right before bens surgery or maybe right after, its hard to tell if ben is in his wheelchair when he radioed mike
i meany penny prolly couldnt monitor anomolies without chuck's knowledge.
i still think that theres a third possability, the freckage wasnt faked at all, rather it is the doppleganger plane, and ben or widmore just replaced the pilot or whatever, to make it seem fake, but they did all this to hide the true cashamir effect nature of the island. What are the chances they would let the O'6 leave with just their word that they wouldnt tell, well a faked plane, if the story got out would be a whole lot more understandable to the masses then a doppleganger plane created in a time anomoly. It goes back to the fact that ben is actig like widmore wants the island for its healing peroperties to make it his own Dharmasic Park, but ben conveniently left out the time travel aspect of the island, the only one that has given us(815'ers) any insight about the time anomoly is daniel, and charlotte has fought him the whole time about that. I thought bens story about mike would give some of those details, but was wrong...
Happy Easter Weekend to those who celebrate!
Antecendent: WOW! It's been a long time since we heard from you. Welcome back! And I like your take on the conversation between Naomi and Abbaddon. If Abbaddon is working for Widmore, that would play out that their intentions are indeed to kill everyone on the island and leave no witnesses. So maybe Ben is the good guy and actually "saves" the O6 and the deal they make is with him, and, consequently, they are beholden to Ben (maybe that's why Sayid sold his soul to the devil).
2costa: I agree that the man in the hospital bed next to Michael is very similar to Alvar Hanso. But what if it's Tovard Hanso (the one who sold the Black Rock ledge at the auction)? There might be a family resemblance. Maybe he needed to sell the ledger because he was sick and/or dying and needed the money!
OK, i've watched this episode, and i have a couple of observations:
1. why did micheal have hallucinations of Libby, but not Anna-Lucia? If he's feelin guilty about killing the two women, surely he should be tormented by halluciantions of both of them, not just one of them?
2. I think Locke said, at the start of the episode, that the boaties had orders to kill everyone on the Island once they captured Ben. Why didn't the boaties just whack everyone except Ben, and then capture Ben? I mean, they were armed to the teeth, so what was stopping them from murdering everyone, and then taking Ben captive?
Brendan, your question #2 reminds me of what my nephew asked me a few weeks ago: "Why don't the Losties just kill Ben and get rid of him?" The only reason I could give (other than morals and ethics) was that the show would not be as interesting if they did. :o) Don't know if that's the answer to your Q, but...
FWIW, I did some research on trying to ID the features of the man in the bed next to Michael, and posted in on my LOST blog. Nothing definite yet, but still looking.
Brendan, I think Michael is hallucinating only Libby because she's the one he's most guilty about. I'd still like to see someone (Juliet) tell Michael to kill Ana, but even if that doesn't happen, I think Michael had reconciled himself to this one act of treachery, but not the unplanned act of treachery that was Libby's murder. Plus he's got the Hurley guilt with that one too. Just like with the viewers, no one really minded that Ana Lucia died, but Libby . . . We like Libby. We like Libby and Hurley.
As for the question of who is up to what in terms of killing 815ers, etc. that's what's going to keep me going in circles the next 5 weeks. It seems to me if the Freighter Folk do intend to kill everyone on the Island but Ben, why not have Michael blow up the boat before they can arrive on the Island? The only answer I can think of is that Ben wants to preserve the morale high ground of not being the aggressor. He's fighting the evil invader, not taking the first step in an ever escalating war between Ben and Widmore.
But I also don't get why Widmore wouldn't want to rescue the 815ers. If Ben is such a bad guy, why not rescue a bunch of people who can truthfully tell the world "there's this guy who has kidnapped people, including kids, who infiltrated our groups when we were just trying to survive, etc., etc." why wouldn't you want that? It's not like the 815ers or Desmond really understand anything about the "special" properties of the Island or could give that away to the world.
Similarly why wouldn't Ben want to expose Widmore's freckage if he's the planter? Send the 815ers home, regroup on the Island and move forward.
Just catching up on comments.
Memphish........
The only reason that I can think of for neither side "outing" the other is because they both want the island for themselves.
Myself I think Ben views the island like he views Juliet, his.
Ben says that there will be a war so, he starts one, then says see I told you there would be war. Kind of like when he told Jack not to answer the satellite phone or everybody would die. An easy prediction if you are the one who intends to kill them.
I think that he set Danielle and poor Karl up so he could be the comforting father to his grieving daughter. ewwww!
What I don't understand is how he manages to accomplish all he accomplishes. All I can think of is that he is like Desmond and somehow knows how to control it. There has to be some way he cheats aand stays one step ahead. If that is the case I don't know how he can be stopped.
Does anyone else think that maybe Mike's ball-bouncing was the metered banging that Sayid and Des heard in their quarters? I have to listen to them both and see if they are the same, maybe tomorrow night I'll get to that.
Happy Easter everyone!
i was thinking , whos to say that ben knew the future before the purpling, maybe thats when he hatched his micheal plan, and maybe thats why he wanted the purpling to happen in the first place. Maybe the puprling is what drove Mike truly mad, right before he left the island, perhaps the whole list of four that mike delivered were brought to ben on the warph to be as far away from the pupling as possible, including 3 out of the four were 3 oceanic 6. Maybe the hoods were to try to prevent any unstuck side effects with jack or kate, or conversly to test how the rest of the 815'ers respond to the magnativity, goes with the theory that 815 was stocked with people resistant to the island magnatism, to be a better other. You couldnt have workers that were trying to kill themselves all the time. Maybe thats why ben and the rest were on the warph for the purpling because of the strange properties of nmagnatism and water, i think someone pointed out that water works against magnativity or something...
i had another thought, not only were Hurley, jack , and kate on the warph dock during the purpling. Sayid and Sun were on the sailboat during the purpling. That only leaves aaron on the island during the purpling, while 5 of the oceanic 6 were on the water at that time,but aaron has had the green vaccine, plus since kate helped deliver aaron, she would be a perfect constant for aaron. So it seems clear why only these six are allowed to leave, the others are all purpling victims that would probably get unstuck in time if they leave the island. Seems like ben had his oceanic six picked out long ago. On the secret clue site they point out that minkowski was exposed to magnativity through his equipment, but didnt go insane til trying to go to the island. So maybe the other 815'ers that were subject to the pupling that werent over water whne it happened will be all good as long as they never try to leave the island...
Capcom,
That was the first thing that went through my head when I saw Michael bouncing the ball. My second thought was that they had someone locked up in the Dez/Sayid room and he/she was trying to bring attention to him/herself with the banging... when no one showed up to help or anything they decided the only way out was to improvise a flip top head...lol
to clarify my point from above. Maybe ben only knew about the future up until the purpling, maybe he saw more after that. In the case of desmond, he is only privy to info leading up to the point of the anomoly. When he turned the failsafe key and went back to his flat with penny, he only had flashes of the future up to the point he turned the failsafe key, for instance he wasnt having flashes of charlie dying on the island until his conciousness went back to the present on the island(but his precognition is a whole differnt animal). I might add that mrs. Hawkings only revealed details of desmonds life in the future up until he turned the failsafe key, almost as if that was his ultimate purpose, but what if she was experiencing something simuliar to desmond, and hawkings could only see up until the point of the failsafe key. In desmonds flash back to 1996 earlier this season, although he was the 1996 desmond in 2004, he could have in theory gleaned info from the present(like dan telling him the numbers for his mini purple ray), but nothing past that point. If we ignore desmonds charlie flashes as something differnt, people can only see as far ahead as the present time that the purpling is happening, or the present where they are coming or going to the island as minkowski. I know theres prolly a clearer way to say it, but minkowski for example was going to the past he wasn't seeing the ferris wheel in the future. This bolsters the thought that desmond is key, becuase his future flashes of charlie are the only time we have seen someone in the present flash to the future, i know critics will say 1996 desmond flashed to the future of 2001, but my point is the catalyst for that,flying into the dunderhead, was still in the present. For it to parralell desmonds flashes to charlie, he would have had to have some incident with magnatism or radioactivity while he was in boot camp.
dont let any of this distract u from my true point that 5 of the 6 oceanic 6 were over water during the purpling, and arron is special...
Happy Easter everyone!
I've been meaning to comment for awhile, but I've been very side-tracked. Anyway...I have some thoughts.
First, to Memphish, the keeping tally of "WAAAAAAAAALT" and "My Son" things is hilarious. I've gotten two of my buddies at my college addicted now, and we're half-way through season 1, and we're thinking of making a drinking game of it (though with non-alcoholic beverages of course)!
But I digress. I've been doing a lot of thinking about the freckage. People seem to think either Widmore or Ben put it there, but I had a crazy thought: what if it were neither of them? I mean, what if Widmore just ASSUMED it were Ben, and Ben forged the "evidence" Tom showed Mike and Ben just ASSUMED it were Widmore? It could be Mittlework (sp?) or somebody from Hanso? I dunno, it's out there, but it would be a cool mindf**k.....
BUT, assuming it were either Ben or Widmore, I think Widmore did it. I mean, Ben has this KNACK for knowing basically everything about everybody (My money is on Psychic, Astral Projection, or Time-Travel....of D) All of the Above) and since he wants SO BADLY for Mike to work him, he would just show him proof. Widmore also doesn't seem like a very savory fellow; he's kind of a jerk. So, I'm all for Ben being the "good guy" for once.
As well, does it seem weird that Ben told Michael that he doesn't kill innocents when only twenty-some odd years ago, he gassed the entire Barracks and killed everybody in the Dharma Initiative?
Also, about Avlar Hanso being in the bed in the hospital, I think it was probably only a dude who looks a lot like him. I mean, when I first saw it, I thought the same thing, but why would somebody as powerful as Hanso be in that random hospital? You'd think he's at LEAST have his own bed. I think it was just a dude who looks like him; I man, if you put Jake Gyllenhal next to Tobey McGuire, they look the same...they're basically the same acotr... but they aren't.
Also, whoever hypothesized that Adam and Eve are Aaron and Ji Yeon, kudos. That's an awesome theory!
It's Spring Break for Lost fans.
This hiatus will be a piece of cake compared to the last one.
I wonder if in a FF, someone will be selling Oceanic-6-packs?It seems like they would go over big, with all the publicity our 6'ers will be getting.We may not find out who is pulling the strings on the Freckage,and freighter till the end of season 4;if then.
I hope you all found your Lost easter eggs, and a Happy Easter to
everyone who is Easterly inclined.
what reason would widmore have for wanting to kill everyone on the island ?
Happy Easter to all.
What an Easter present that episode was. So much information, so many questions answered, so many people in one episode.
Although they answered most things in simple fashion and not quite as complicated way as some of us have been speculating on.
I don't think Karl and Danielle are dead, they were shot on the right sides of their body not through the heart. Ok it's going to do serious damage but nothing someone like Jack couldn't fix.
I don't think the map location was the temple, just a way of getting the three people into the ambush.
Also the cartoon bomb was a LOL moment.
I also expected the captain to say he knew that Michael was from 815.
I've got a feeling that the end of this season is going to end up with the battle lines being drawn, everone taking their sides and the question of whether Ben or Widmore is the good guy will be even less clear.
All the talk of lists keeps reminding me of the UK comedy show Dads Army. A show about the Home Guard in the UK during the second World War.
The platoon capture a U-Boat Captain and some of his men, the youngest member of the platoon starts riduculling Hitler, the U-Boat captain says his name will go the list for reprisals after the war and asks for his name. The commander of the platoon, with perfect comedic timing, says "Don't tell him Pike"
It is classic bit of British comedy and has me in stitches everytime it I see it.
sawyer being on the warph during the purpling, makes me think ben is gonna use him off the island as well...
LOL Ded! :-D
Cool Roog, Widmore says, "I thought it was you!", and Ben says, "But I thought it was you!". Then they become friends, and our heads explode. :o)
So I was just thinking and if anyone else mentioned this and I just overlooked it, I am sorry for bringing it up again.
I was wondering how Michael could have had enough time to heal from that crash in a week. Sooooo, now I have a new theory based on the Islands ability to (as Tom said) not allow Michael to kill himself.
If the Islands power can reach out that far, maybe this is why he could heal so damn fast, as well this would explain how Ben is able to cure Rachel of her cancer from the island, but the Island is a tricky beast and it took her cancer and gave it to Ben, thus creating a new test of faith for Ben in the form of having to find his own cure, goos for Ben that Desmond gave him a doctor to use.
Any thoughts?
Hmmmmm, I like it, Ded.
BTW, 2costa, interesting what you are thinking about where people were during the purpling.
i think that it was alvar in the room with mike, and that explains why he healed so fast, because it was a hanso hospital...
plus ben will be able to blame locke for everyone having to stay cause he stopped pushing the button...
Roog, that was me. I just threw out that Adam & Eve=Aaron & Ji Yeon bit just as a random thought. But wouldn't that just be a mindtwister?
I wouldn't put it past TPTB.
My hubby asked me today (after listening to the OLP) what would I think if after all this, Lost ends up being a dream/imaginary tale, even though Darlton has denied this? I told him they'd have to find an Island of their own to move too...
Amused2bHere said....
"My hubby asked me today (after listening to the OLP) what would I think if after all this, Lost ends up being a dream/imaginary tale, even though Darlton has denied this? I told him they'd have to find an Island of their own to move too..."
That's hilarious. And I agree whole-heartedly.
To 2Costa, that's a very interesting theory you have...and it makes sense. Hmm...who knows?
Regarding the dream thing, I wouldn't be surprised if some time near the end of the show, that TPTB throw us an, it was all a dream, type of episode just to mess with us.
I'm just re-watching, and I just noticed that when Alex asked if the other people were more dangerous than Ben, that Ben looked as though he was lying.
I know he probably would anyway because it's Alex, but he did seem to be rather reluctant to answer.
I've been thinking about the shooters, and I think it was Freighter Folk who were the shooters, but Ben, like Mrs. Hawking, knew it was going to happen, and sent Karl, Alex and Danielle there so it would. I think he told Alex all that stuff about them being able to use her against him so that she'd know how to save herself. In fact that may be intervening with the universe too which will lead to even more course correction. I think Ben rather than Desmond may be the one interfering with the universe this season.
I still don't understand why Widmore wouldn't want the 815ers to survive off the Island. I find it hard to believe any of them off the Island would be able to interfere with whatever his intentions are with regards to the Island. Of course, it does leave things neater, but still. If I were on the Freighter, I'd have to worry that I was expendable as well.
I'm also still trying to figure out why Miles is part of the team. I can see them putting Frank and Charlotte on it to get rid of them. Both are extremely skeptical that the fake 815 is indeed fake, and Charlotte has ties to Dharma too. Dan is there to prevent time traveling, but I don't think we've seen the real reason Miles is there yet. The only thing I can come up with is the scenario that there may have been nothing but dead bodies and Ben left on the Island when they arrived and Miles was there to find out from the dead people where Ben was. But why isn't Miles fearful for his own life if the plan and he knows it is to leave no 815ers alive?
After rewatching that shooting scene, it has confirmed what I said above that they were both hit on the right side.
Unless they were Dr No. (see the Ian Fleming Novel not the film) then they would not have been instantly killed.
I'm starting to suspect that this was a plan between Ben and Danielle to get Alex away from Karl. Possibly as a radical method of contraception !
The shooters would be the others from the temple and not the freighter people.
Sorry to disagree Memphish, I've voted that way on your blog poll too.
Does anyone else think we'll get some more Missing Pieces episodes to tie us over until episode 4x09 ??
No worries Zort. I think we're supposed to debate and disagree over this and the freighter point. After all, what else would we do until April 24? :D
I just can't figure out who from the Temple Ben could convince to shoot Karl or Danielle either for that matter. All the tough guys from the Others (other than Harper) died at the beach at the end of S3. And I can't figure out why any of the Temple Others would shoot Karl, but not shoot Dan and Charlotte to stop their mission.
On the other hand, I can see Keamy shooting at anyone. That's why I think he led the shooting, but I do think that Ben knew about it beforehand.
Brendan, I don't think we're going to get anything during the break except one video OLP the week before the show comes back. I think TPTB are all too busy trying to finish up the season to do anything else. I hope they come up with something for us to do over the next extremely long hiatus though. Maybe by ComicCon, late July, they'll be able to launch something.
I guess the reason the Freighter people aren't surprised to find 815ers on the Island is that they've been told by the Captain/Widmore that Ben faked the 815 in the trench. That still doesn't explain to me though why Widmore would rather kill the 815ers than rescue them, or how he assembles a team that agrees that is the right course of action to take. Cute little Daniel Faraday agreed to kill all those folks? It seems clear Frank didn't agree to that, so how does he reconcile himself to flying Machine Gun Keamy to the Island? And why hasn't he asked Sayid about Seth Norris?
widmores only reason to kill the 815'ers is he thinks they are working for Ben, plus all the stuff on the island they have destroyed, well locke has destroyed, the swan, the flame, the sub. Widmore is on the hanso board or used to be, so maybe they are there ina n official capacity. I think the island hasnt always been so hard to find, but ben is makeing it harder. I think that the numbers(lotto source) guy from hurleys flashback went insane from monitoring radio equipment like minkowski and the other frieghtys, the difference is minkowski tried to approach the island after the exposure and that made him die. I think sniper rifles and silencers are too nuanced for the frieghtys, they were skeet shooting with automatic machine guns for cripes sake.
I thought it was interesting that, on ekos staff it said look to the north,like john 3:05. and bens map to the temple for alex had the coordinates north 3:05. Maybe the temple is really there, but maybe ben sent them over by flame or the pearl,i beleive that locke used the north 3:05 on ekos staff to find the flame. It always struck me as weird that there was that big flower garden over by the pearl, maybe it ties in.
what i was saying about 5 of the 6 oceanic six being over the water and not on land during the purpling, it remonds me of how charlies music ability, tied into cracking the looking glasses jamming code. The only reason sun was on the sailboat with sayid and jin during the purpling, is because of jins fishing background, he was gonna sail the ship for sayid, but sun insisted on coming with
widmores only reason to kill the 815'ers is he thinks they are working for Ben, plus all the stuff on the island they have destroyed, well locke has destroyed, the swan, the flame, the sub. Widmore is on the hanso board or used to be, so maybe they are there ina n official capacity. I think the island hasnt always been so hard to find, but ben is makeing it harder. I think that the numbers(lotto source) guy from hurleys flashback went insane from monitoring radio equipment like minkowski and the other frieghtys, the difference is minkowski tried to approach the island after the exposure and that made him die. I think sniper rifles and silencers are too nuanced for the frieghtys, they were skeet shooting with automatic machine guns for cripes sake.
I thought it was interesting that, on ekos staff it said look to the north,like john 3:05. and bens map to the temple for alex had the coordinates north 3:05. Maybe the temple is really there, but maybe ben sent them over by flame or the pearl,i beleive that locke used the north 3:05 on ekos staff to find the flame. It always struck me as weird that there was that big flower garden over by the pearl, maybe it ties in.
what i was saying about 5 of the 6 oceanic six being over the water and not on land during the purpling, it remonds me of how charlies music ability, tied into cracking the looking glasses jamming code. The only reason sun was on the sailboat with sayid and jin during the purpling, is because of jins fishing background, he was gonna sail the ship for sayid, but sun insisted on coming with
Hi all!
It seems to me there are a couple of pieces of evidence that point to the fact that Rousseau is indeed still alive.
1. As far as we know, she has not recently engaged in "relations" with someone who is not her husband. (Kate better get off the island QUICK)
2. The actress playing Rousseau has not been arrested for DUI.
I think we have reason to believe we'll see her again.
On a different note, any word on a TLE ARG between the end of this season and the beginning of the next?
Hey FSYB!!! Nice to hear from you, don't wait so long until the next time! :-D
Dedjezter said: If the Islands power can reach out that far, maybe this is why he could heal so damn fast, as well this would explain how Ben is able to cure Rachel of her cancer from the island, but the Island is a tricky beast and it took her cancer and gave it to Ben...
Does make you wonder where the disease or handicap "goes" on the island. Your point about cancer/tumor going from Rose to Ben makes sense. Can the island be waiting to give someone paralyzed legs that it took from Locke?
Memphish: I, too, am leaning to Keamy and his Commandoes being the shooters and Ben knowing about it (maybe from his spy, Michael?). He definitely set up Alex to use being Ben's daughter as a bargaining tool with his warning. I just can't see anyone other than Patchy shooting some of their own people (Karl).
Fsyb: So glad to see you around again. We definitely miss your great sense of humor. I haven't heard anything about another ARG after S4. :(
Memphish said" That still doesn't explain to me though why Widmore would rather kill the 815ers than rescue them, or how he assembles a team that agrees that is the right course of action to take.
I would guess that "leave no witnesses behind" would be Widmore's philosophy. And I guess maybe a big salary for the Team might be incentive enough to carry through the plan. The only one I would be worried about would be Dan, too!
fysb said...
t seems to me there are a couple of pieces of evidence that point to the fact that Rousseau is indeed still alive.
1. As far as we know, she has not recently engaged in "relations" with someone who is not her husband. (Kate better get off the island QUICK)
2. The actress playing Rousseau has not been arrested for DUI.
LOL...so true ;)
I gotta say these last few episodes have practically left me speechless. I don't know who's good/who's bad/who's alive/who's dead...just point me in the right direction.
Why would Widmore be so foolish as to leave Ben alive? As Miles accurately observed, if you give this guy an inch, he'll be in control before you know it. The plan of getting Ben and killing everyone else is foolish if Ben is indeed your enemy.
What if Widmore has nothing to do with the Freighter at all and doesn't even know who Ben is? What if Ben is actually behind the Freighter and had Abaddon hire everyone and tell them it was Widmore hiring them? Then Ben's playing both sides of the same game. That sounds exactly like the kind of thing he would do especially given that he now has both sides convinced that Ben and Ben alone is the one person that must remain alive.
Kim and Aimee on the TLI podcast had the best example of Ben killing innocents, the women from his group who volunteered to get pregnant, like Henrietta and Ethan's wife. Ben has the ability to let these women leave the Island to give birth and then bring them back, but instead he lets them die.
im sure widmore knows of the island from the black rock ledger, but about ben who knows, if widmore was really funding the freighter wouldnt have minkowski mentioned that when he told desmond about intercepting pennys calls, like my bosses daughter wants to find u desmond. At the same time frank seems like one of the more honest guys and he said widmore believed him about the freckage and wanted to find the island so Im inclined to beleive that, but I still find it hard to beleive that widmore would be behind the freckage unless he is working with ben. Just too many loose ends to the widmore freckage theory. The freckage is just too darn convenient to ben, and it just illustrates how only some of the others knew bens whole secret plan for the 815'ers, whereas the rest of the others is who Bens little show when flight 815 first crashed was for, acting like it was a surprise to ben. I tend to think mikhail was in the dark about the true purpose of flight 815, thats why he was all psyched making dossiers when it crashed, whereas ben didnt seem to care, because he already had dossiers? Just like ben wasnt surprised that a spinal surgen was on 815...and thats why mikhail was getting more and more annoyed with ben last season as he saw he was getting played by ben...there is always the chance that they are there to gas the island and save ben, they must need him alive preferably
something we shouldnt forget: claire still has that implant inside her .
In this episode it all comes down to Indiana Jone and the Temple of Doom. We reveal that the last member of the Oceanic 6 is the Easter Bunny and provide music from an Olympic Gold Medalist. It's fun and it's Free... It's the Lost Community Podcast episode all about "Meet Kevin Johnson."
Join in the fun and frivolity by sending MP3 comments and e-mails to tlcpodcast@gmail.com or call our listener voicemail box at 206-202-3512. Also the invitation is open if you'd like to be on the Lost Community Podcast and you have Skype e-mail us and we'll set it up.
http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-24061/TS-102367.mp3?dl=1
BETTER LATE THAN NEVER!
Interesting EF. I wonder if that will prevent her from leaving the Island.
WOW, EF: I'd forgotten all about that! Wonder who else has that implant?
Great podcast guys. You always sound like you're having a fun time!
Like your take that Oceanic 815 landed in the middle of a war...one that's been going on for a long time...maybe even since Black Rock. I don't know if we have all the info yet as to if this war is worth fighting for. Obviously, Ben and Widmore think so!
I think Libby was "haunting" Michael because he totally did not intend to shot her...it was almost a reflex action. She is part of his guilty conscience. And Ben was testing that conscience to see how guilty he was by setting up the fake bomb with the cartoon flag. He needed to know how far he could push Michael and manipulate him.
I agree that it is possible that Tom could have switched the gun that jammed on Michael. What I don't understand is that people in NYC can just waltz into a pawn shop and buy a gun without any ID or waiting period.
I'm saying that the guy in the bed next to Michael could have been Tovard Hanso...the relative who auctioned off the ledger. He could have been ill in 1996 and needed the money for treatments (that didn't work in the long run). Also, there would be a family resemblance to Alvar.
BTW: That "Valis" book is really strange so far.
LOL about why we know Danielle isn't dead, fysb. I hope you're right!
Off to listen to TLCpodcast. Tra la!
I'm open to whomever might have been the jungle snipers, but one thing that keeps me from thinking that Ben sent them out so Karl and Rousseau would get killed by the Freighters, is that Ben would never take the chance of sending Alex out into danger like that. That is, if we can believe that he truly loves her, which it seems like he does. Just sayin'.
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