Thursday, February 28, 2008

The Constant - Season 4, Episode 5


Sayid and Desmond hit a bit of turbulence on the way to the freighter, which causes Desmond to experience some unexpected side effects. Flashback/Flashforward unconfirmed, no promotional photos, crazy promo with a long haired Faraday...Here we go!

619 comments:

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memphish said...

First? That picture is starting to look worse for the wear.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Second! LOL

Hi, memphish!

Darkaardvark said...

Literally screamed "YES" when I saw the military decor. Been waiting for this flashback for a while. Didn't see it coming.

Darkaardvark said...

Oh, and obligatory "what the heck is going on?" comment for that last line before the fadetoblack.

Ellen said...

Here!

memphish said...

What?!?

I hope someone comes up with a way to chart or graph this one.

I wonder if the storm is a defense mechanism like in The Truman Show?

Melissa_Lossa said...

Holy crap!

Is it possible that Des ended up in jail because he was jumping through time?

If so, bravo to the writers for setting that up years ago!

experimentalfilm! said...

WHOAHWOAWHOAWHOA

Ange said...

Ya okay did Desmond just switch places with himself?

Ellen said...

Dark-me too...How is it that Desmond doesn't know who Sayid is?
xxoo

Sayid'sgirl said...

Ahhh! Oh my gosh

experimentalfilm! said...

first of all, desmond with short hair = <3333333 !!!!!

maybe now that they're leaving the island, somethings happening with desmonds internal timeline ? perhaps something to do with his flashes ?

Darkaardvark said...

"Is it possible that Des ended up in jail because he was jumping through time?"

Desmond was in Military Prison for refusing to follow orders, if I know my Live Together Die Alone properly.

*shrug*?

Melissa_Lossa said...

dark - yeah, but maybe the reason Des disobeyed orders was because he was jumping through time and got disoriented?

Keesh said...

If they crashed in Sept, when was the world series?

Keesh said...

20 min equals 1 island day.
They could have only been on the island a couple of 'real' weeks.

experimentalfilm! said...

whoahwaohwoa too much to handle right now hahhahaha

Ellen said...

Wow, finally, Fischer Stevens!! Seems like he and Des have something in common!
xxoo

memphish said...

The World Series is in late Oct.

If you haven't read Slaughterhouse Five you better put it on your list. I'm betting Desmond's friend Billy is named Billy Sunday.

So we get a confirmation they are in the Pacific! Hallelujah!

Desmond appears to be living the same reality in two different times and places.

Darkaardvark said...

Okay, uhm, the line "I'm not supposed to be here" is super familiar... a quick google shows that Claire may have said it in some episode.

So, again, the monkey-wrench of it all is not that Des is disoriented in Island-time but that he is actually talking about the future in Army-time, much like he did to Penny in Flashes.

Would put a small amount of money on seeing Mrs. Hawking indirectly before the end of the episode.

memphish said...

Oh and Desmond's time in the service had to be more than 4 years prior to the crash right?

Darkaardvark said...

@keesh"20 min equals 1 island day.
They could have only been on the island a couple of 'real' weeks."

I think Faraday refuted this... it's more of the travel between the island and the outside world, not that there's actually a difference from day-to-day... why radio waves and stuff like that can travel without time-delay (realtime conservations between freighter and island) but those going to and from the island (rocket, chopper) have time delays.

So no, I won't subscribe to the theory that anything other than 93 days have passed in the outside world until I get more convincing evidence.

Darkaardvark said...

Question: How did sickbayman get the side effects that come from traveling to the island?

Darkaardvark said...

So, explanation for why Faraday was crying without knowing why? Some sort of time-loop or paradox where Desmond visits him... and... something... this is crazy but I feel like we're getting tons of details about how the island works.

Capcom said...

WOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWZERS!!!!!

memphish said...

Wow!!!!

Camp Millar -- shout out to Find815. As is Queen's College. Have we found all the clues in the show yet?

Capcom said...

I think you're right Dark!

Ellen said...

Whoa...Daniel wants Des to find him at Oxford. Guess that answers how they met before all this. 1996!!! 12 years ago?...Talk about unexpected side effects!
xxoo

Melissa_Lossa said...

1996, huh? Wow.

So this takes place not long after Desmond's last time travel experience.

Capcom said...

The operative word for the night seems to be "Wow!" :o)

Ange said...

Maybe Mankowski is Ben's man on the boat and he has been to the island and that's how he got sick.

Darkaardvark said...

"So this takes place not long after Desmond's last time travel experience."

Was Flashes the one that ended with Des seeing the military poster? If so, then you're spot on. He obviously hasn't been in the regiment for all that long.

Geez, Des must be feeling a little crazy in '96/'04

Darkaardvark said...

Unstuck in time = Billy Pilgrim = Slaughterhouse 5, right? Crap... gonna have to read that before next week.

Darkaardvark said...

Also, Faraday fried his brain with radiation?

Melissa_Lossa said...

dark, yeah it was in Flashes when he saw that poster - not long after he talked to Papa Widmore, I think.

So, did Dan fry his own brain with radiation? Is that why he doesn't rememeber meeting Des in the future?

Ellen said...

oop--I think we were right! Looks like Daddy Widmore may be controlling things on the boat. Why else would they be instructed not to answer Penny's calls?
xxoo

Capcom said...

OK, Dan mentioned the paradox thing, so I think this will be giving us soooo much to think about this week.

Capcom said...

Right Ellen!

Sayid'sgirl said...

I haven't read any comments so sorry if this has been said.
So this means Faraday time traveled and that's why he was crying about 815 but doesn't know why. And that's why he has a caretaker.

Ange said...

So RIng lady, the monk, Nadia, etc...are they all also unstuck and being sent to shape time? Have they designated Flight 815 and what goes on.

experimentalfilm! said...

so whats really happening.. the future or the past ??

and whywould faraday be crying about 815 though ? i know the scene youre talking about but .. i still dont understand why that makes him cry ..

experimentalfilm! said...

black rocks journal found in madagascar .. ?

experimentalfilm! said...

LMAO desmond and widmores conversation.. awkward much ??

Darkaardvark said...

So, Hanso has known about the island for a long time... and has been trying to keep it under wraps.

Darkaardvark said...

YES!! TIME IS THE SAME ON AND OFF THE ISLAND.

experimentalfilm! said...

almost christmas - remember ..
THE TSUNAMI is coming soon
think it'll have any effect ?

Melissa_Lossa said...

If Desmond dies, I will be so mad!

Capcom said...

That was weird how Widmore sort of insulted Des by relegating him to washroom boy, leaving him to turn off the water.

Ellen said...

ooo I knew it!! Widmore was Talbot's boss on the Christiane I. Bet the address Widmore just gave Desmond is the one in the journal that Sam had!!!
I hope Fischer Stevens has more than one bit part in this episode...
nooooo, Des can't die!!!
xxoo

Capcom said...

What did that guy say about Fiji before, I couldn't hear it? Tx.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Hanso... Black Rock... it's all too much to handle!

Darkaardvark said...

Can someone give me a brief explanation of the Fischer Stevens thing? Sorry. If there's no quick answer, no worries. I only know the absolute barebones of the latest ARG

Melissa_Lossa said...

capcom - I think he said that Fiji was the last port they were at.

Darkaardvark said...

" What did that guy say about Fiji before, I couldn't hear it? Tx."

I think he said that their last port was in Fiji so at least they know they are still in the Pacific.

I can check after the episode is over.

Ellen said...

I was right!!! 423 Cheyne Walk- wow!!!
xxoo

experimentalfilm! said...

tsunamis happening in two days..right

Ellen said...

Oh no...I'm crying now...
Gosh that was sad.

Darkaardvark said...

Best episode so far this year. Period.

experimentalfilm! said...

wait does des have his memory back now ??

BEST .
EPISODE .
EVER .

Melissa_Lossa said...

Oh my god. That was the BEST episode!

And Penny's finally pulling her weight on my fantasy team! LOL

Darkaardvark said...

Yes, Des is back.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Glad to see we're all on the same page. :)

Yeah, I think Des remembers everything now - and I think Dan is starting to as well.

Capcom said...

Thanks Melissa and Dark!

Wow, that was super awesome!

So Dan leaps too then, huh?????

Sayid'sgirl said...

Ok haven't read comments but that had to be the best episode of Lost yet.
Going to try and catch up on comments.

Capcom said...

So many Find815 things came home to roost tonight! What fun. :-D

Ange said...

So from Find 815 we got loads:
Cheyene Walk
Queen's College Dept. of Physics
Penny's number
Southfields

And we now know Talbot was telling the truth about the Hanso journal.

Darkaardvark said...

Almost all of the really emotional moments (for me) in Lost have come with Penny and Des... this episode, last season's finale (although that was really more of Charlie and Des), and the season 2 finale. Probably the only thing that really stands up to those is the ending to 'Deus ex Machina' with lost pounding on the hatch.

Ellen said...

So, Penny was Desmond's constant and Desmond is Daniel's constant. What an incredible episode! So Daniel replicated the island's properties in his lab at Oxford, and now he's actually the "guinea pig" in his own experiment in the real setting of the island. He must be time traveling too. Maybe that's why the caretaker and the memory loss. So my take on this is that now he and Desmond have talked, perhaps his memory loss and whatever other side effects will be corrected...?

Capcom said...

Not so sure that I like Charlotte now, but will have to wait and see.

Did I see correctly in the previews that they might be in a DHARMA statin next week??? We're really getting some meat here!

Sayid'sgirl said...

Is the number that could be a combination the only clue left now from find815?

Darkaardvark said...

Just a note, the Doc Jensen spoiler is for next week, not this week, so if you're looking to remain spoiler-free, don't read the article for this episode.

Capcom said...

That sounds good Ellen. I feel so happy that Dan is getting himself together, and he's only a new character. He's good.

The Love was definitely back in the show tonight. So much angst up to this point, this season.

experimentalfilm! said...

i read somewhere that the tsunami is gonna have some sortt of impact, but .. that depends on where exactly in the pacific they are .

so is this all happening in the real past ? or is this a "new" past ? is this really what caused him to not follow orders ?

and i suppose when these future/past jumping people find their constant, they're okay again .. the rat didnt have a constant, and apparently neither did george . but desmond and daniel do .

Erich said...

Fantastic episode! Loved the "find me at Queens College" Marty McHume and Doc Farraday stuff! And now we have extra confirmation that the Des/Penny storyline is one of the biggies for the entire series.

It loved it when Minkowski said something about how hard it was going to be to "go back" to the island...

Good to know time moves the same off-island as on (a little Christmas coal to all conspiracy theorists everywhere).

Sayid'sgirl said...

capcom
I never did like Charlotte. I thought she was a "mean" person when she first dropped on the island. Never found her annoying just self serving.
I had said I thought Charlotte and Dan seemed awfully close before now it looks like they are doing an experiment together.

jess4ua said...

Hey guys!
Wow, what a lot to digest! LOL How exciting to see so many clues from the game. I wonder why Dan couldn't be Desmond's constant. Also, I wonder if Dan crying at the crash isn't a sign that something even worse is going to happen that we haven't seen yet.

Erich said...

I didn't get the sense that anything has happened to Daniel yet. The time travel thing seems to be quite obvious to those effected (more than mere memory loss). But now that Des is Farraday's constant, I guess he's got a safety net.

Capcom said...

LOL Erich.


Yeah, I like Charlotte when she is helping and protecting Dan. But the way she talks to everyone else, I dunno, could just be that she's staying "on mission", doing what they've been told to do.

DeDJeZTeR said...

I thought the coolest thing was when Penny said she knew about the Island, she had been researching it since she talked to Dezzi's friend Charlie. That was cool.

So much to digest after a day of being disappointed by how little there is to digest from the Game. Dennis man, I'll get your opinion on the game tomorrow after you are done... lol

That is if you start it tonight... if you start it tomorrow, then I'll get it tomorrow night... it is that short.

Sayid'sgirl said...

jess
That's a good point. I never thought of that. It sure looks like it's going to get out of control next week.

Did anyone else think when Sayid handed over his gun for the radio that it was when he thought with heart instead of his gun?

Melissa_Lossa said...

I think Dan couldn't be Desmond's constant because he didn't really know him. Dan said it had to be something that was really important to you.

I think because Des was instrumental in Dan's experiment, he can fit the role for Dan. Does that make sense?

Sayid'sgirl said...

Well I'm going to go rewatch the episode again.

Capcom said...

Ruh-roh, Sayidsgirl!

That sounds good Melissa.

experimentalfilm! said...

good point sayidsgirl ... i was wondering where that "thinking with his heart" thing would come in .

jess4ua said...

ML- Yeah I see what you mean, that is how Dan got the numbers for his experiment so it is important to him. Also, are the dead people some how jumping in their minds back and forth from death? LOL

Melissa_Lossa said...

When the phone was ringing, I looked at the clock and saw that it was already about 10 - with the episode winding down, I was so afraid that she wasn't going to answer!

That shot of Dan sitting under the tree on the beach - I swear that for a second, he looked just like Charlie! I thought it was actually him for a second.

jess4ua said...

Also, why aren't Charlie and Locke having the same symptoms as Des after being exposed to the radiation. I mean, why are only some people affected?

Erich said...

dedjezter said: I thought the coolest thing was when Penny said she knew about the Island, she had been researching it since she talked to Dezzi's friend Charlie.

Minor point, but I'm pretty sure Pen said she had been researching the island well before Charlie (though part of what she said got conveniently lost in static); and that Charlie was simply the confirmation she needed that Des was still alive.

It will be fascinating to learn how Penny learned about the island, and why she was so convinced Desmond was there. Not to mention why no one would let Minkowski answer her calls to the freighter.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Strangely, though - we STILL didn't find out exactly what Des did to be dishonorably discharged!

experimentalfilm! said...

true ... if they're dead in the "future", are things still happening in the past ?

im confused .. how did george minkowski get the "side effect" again ?

Codysmom said...

I'm just blown away!! LOVE this episode!

So, you need a constant.. something really important to you on the island and off?

Ange said...

So is the reason that Jacob needs "help" because he is stuck or unstuck in time and needs a constant? Is this what is happening to him, or has he somehow gotten unstuck on a physical level as well and that's what makes him really special?

Melissa_Lossa said...

jess - I think that people affected by the electromagnetic radiation have trouble when they try to go to or from the island - Locke and Charlie didn't have any symptoms because they never left.

erich - I think you're right - Penny had been looking for Desmond for 3 years, and talking to Charlie was confirmation that Des was alive.

Capcom said...

Maybe it was just the point that he was AWOL, when he took off to find Dan at Oxford, Melissa.

Erich said...

So, does this episode answer why Desmond was having his flashes last year?

Were they just more minor versions of the "side effect" he experienced this week — caused by the exposure to electromagnetism during the implosion? I'd imagine that as long as he was only jumping ahead a little at a time, it wouldn't be life-threatening the way what happened this time around was. Heck, maybe he woke up naked because he jumped ahead just far enough to get ready to take a shower.

Melissa_Lossa said...

experimental - George and another guy got bored and went out on a boat to try and see the island. The other guy started acting weird, and they had to turn back. The other guy was already dead.

Capcom said...

Good point Ange!

experimentalfilm! said...

but desmond has had symptoms of the hatch implosion already ... hes already had flashforwards, so i feel like locke wouldn't have any symptoms upon leaving .

Ange said...

Oh, is Charlie really physically unstuck somehow? Are these dead people now showing up and that is why the O6 are freaking out?

Sheesh will Kate start seeing Claire, is Jack seeing his dad, did Hurley really see and speak to Charlie?

Codysmom said...

Future Jack, "We have to go back!"... he doesn't have a constant? Kate does (Aaron). This would be true if just being on the island has the same effect as being so close to the hatch implosion as Des was. Maybe it just takes longer for the rest of them?

jess4ua said...

ML- Yeah, but Des started this once the hatch exploded. Also, it happened to Danielle's crew, I think, and not her. HMmmmmmmm!

Melissa_Lossa said...

capcom - Yeah, but he told Penny on the phone that he had two days leave coming up, starting that night. He was going to see her, but he ended up going to see Dan instead.

I guess he could have been gone longer than two days, but it seems like someone said specifically at someone point that he was discharged for disobeying orders. Wouldn't they have said for going AWOL if that was the case?

Although, admittedly, I don't know anything about how the Royal Scots Army works. :)

experimentalfilm! said...

i'm still waiting for michael and walt, shoot !

Erich said...

ange said: So is the reason that Jacob needs "help" because he is stuck or unstuck in time and needs a constant? Is this what is happening to him, or has he somehow gotten unstuck on a physical level as well and that's what makes him really special?

Interesting idea. The episode wanted to make it clear time travel is only someone's consciousness jumping between their body at different times in their life. It pretty much shuts down the idea that someone can actually move through time. Actually a pretty clever way to avoid someone accidentally meeting themselves, creating a paradox, and destroying the space-time continuum (though I can't stop thinking about Christopher Lloyd while I write this).

Ange said...

erich said...It pretty much shuts down the idea that someone can actually move through time. Actually a pretty clever way to avoid someone accidentally meeting themselves, creating a paradox, and destroying the space-time continuum (though I can't stop thinking about Christopher Lloyd while I write this).

But what about the Orchid video and the two bunnies? Maybe the island and being on it can take it to that level.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Completely random thought - what if Libby is another time traveler? I was thinking earlier tonight that her behavior in the mental hospital reminded me of Dan's behavior. Maybe there's a similar cause?

Codysmom said...

jess4ua said...
it happened to Danielle's crew

I like this idea!

erich said...
I can't stop thinking about Christopher Lloyd

LOL, me too!

Erich said...

Maybe we've just gotten a sneak peek into the way Future Jack is going to be able to go back to the island?

If he can't actually find the island again, what's stopping him from being able to jump back into his past consciousness? Although, Farraday did say you can't change the future, and if Jack (or any of the other O6) did that, they'd just bounce around and end up back in the future, where they started.

Hmmmm. Nevermind.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Maybe Dan was trying to solve the problem of the two bunnies? The Orchid film would have been shot in the late 70s or early 80s right? Maybe in 1996, Dan is continuing that work - trying to find a way to send something into the future without duplicating it - time travel without the fear of paradox.

Capcom said...

Oh yeah, tx Mellissa, about the AWOL thing.

Oh that would be so cool about Libby if true!

experimentalfilm! said...

OHHHH yes, the orchid ! those rabbits may have started jumping between past and present on a physical level (similar to jacob maybe?) and thats why it causes such a problem .

experimentalfilm! said...

what do yall mean by paradox in terms of this ?

Codysmom said...

I think it's more like instead of physical time travel, it's more like communications into the future (using someone... Jacob?) hmmm Jacob needs help

Erich said...

Ange said: But what about the Orchid video and the two bunnies? Maybe the island and being on it can take it to that level.

The writers went out of their way to explain this particular time travel as non-corporeal. It's possible Dharma was harnessing the island's power and it got out of control via the Casimir effect. I don't know yet. For now, I think they'll have a different explanation for the bunnies (especially since Eloise didn't multiply, and she was sort of bunny-like...sort of).

Darkaardvark said...

" what do yall mean by paradox in terms of this ?"

In terms of time travel? The time travel paradox refers to, for example, going back in time and killing your own grandfather. If he was killed, you would never have been born, and you wouldn't be able to go back in time to kill your grandfather.

So many physicists say that time travel (in that form) is impossible, because it could lead to situations like that.

Erich said...

I don't like all this paradox talk. They really went out of their way to explain themselves out of that particular hornet's nest. I just don't see them going back into it.

It's only the fifth episode of season four. I'm guessing the island has many secrets and powers yet for us to discover -- ones that will explain Jacob and the Casimir effect.

Melissa_Lossa said...

experimental - The classic time travel paradox is: If you go back in time and kill your own grandmother, then you will never be born. But, if you are never born, then who killed your grandmother?

Having two of the same person in a certain time can also cause problems, in that they could affect their respective time lines. If you go back in time and change something about your life, then that could change things so that you never go back in time - but if that's true, then who changed things to begin with?

It's all very confusing. You have to watch a lot of Star Trek to get it, I think. :)

experimentalfilm! said...

haha dark, we just used the "killing your grandfather" theory in my humanities class . yes, understandable .
so if they do create that sort of paradox, could that be a reason for their death in the present ? or did their flashes of the future in the past already happen ?
god this is so confusing .

experimentalfilm! said...

but no, all this had to have happened in this exact way already . or we'd have a butterfly effect .

like "a sound of thunder" - one of my favorite stories ever .

Melissa_Lossa said...

experimental - I like the idea of paradoxes causing the brain melt down and eventual death of the victims. Interesting....

Even without two physical bodies, having awareness of two times could cause the same problems. It's like Flashes Before Your Eyes when Des tries to buy the ring. He wants to buy it because he sees this as his second chance with Penny, after escaping the island. But if he buys the ring and stays and gets married, then he never goes to the island, never comes back in time, and never has the courage to buy the ring.

Time travel stories always make my head hurt a little.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Anyone a Futurama fan?

"A nice lesson in not changing the past from Mister I'm-my-own-grandpa!"

Michael said...

Fry did do the nasty in the pasty.

jess4ua said...

I can buy into this "mind paradox" too. Dan said that you can't change the future, but Des changed it by getting Penny's number. AND YES, my head hurts!!!!

Darkaardvark said...

Melissa: I know what you're talking about! But if people actually start mucking around with the past on Lost, my head is going to explode.

Capcom said...

Oh yeah, one of the best Futuramas ever! :o)

Melissa_Lossa said...

Ah, Michael! I knew there'd be someone who got it!

Ange said...

Paradox talk aside I feel (and this is my opinion so you can take it as you will) that there are two factions here:
*Unstuck in time off the island
*Unstuck in time on the island.

I think that something about that island is perhaps mutating what Daniel did at Queen's College. Also, I think that having mind time jumping is brilliant but they showed us that bunny for a reason. Maybe things have begun to develop and/or go terribly wrong from the intended purpose or they worked out a way to end the physical jumping.

Jacob could be special because he can do both...

Erich said...

Maybe it's splitting hairs, but I don't see how anyone really changed the future. Why else would the writers have had Farraday specifically say "you can't change the future." Des still ended up on the island. Nothing is different. He got Penny's number and was able to call her, but who's to say that wasn't supposed to happen anyway?

...okay. Now my brain hurts.

jess4ua said...

He changed the future, because he would have died if he didn't do that in the past.
Yes Ange, maybe Walt too! Maybe there are "special" people that can manipulate the island properties to an even greater level. It could explain Walt's growth even.

Melissa_Lossa said...

jess - I think Des also changed it by going back and telling his friend all about the island. Think of the timeline we have now:

Des goes back in time to when he and Penny were living together.

Des tells his friend everything about the island, the button, etc.

Des breaks up with Penny, breaking her heart, and then joins the army.

Des shows up at Penny's house and tells her that he has to have her phone number, because in 8 years, he's desperately going to need to call her.

Des joins the sailing race and then disappears.

Penny starts looking for him - either before or after this point, she knows all about the island.

I think that by going back the first time, Des gave his friend (and by extension, Penny) a lot of information that they wouldn't have had otherwise.

Darkaardvark said...

From an interview I'm just now getting around to reading from Cuselof:

CUSE: For example, the fifth episode of the season [airing next week] deals with time travel and operates in different time periods. It was a tough story to break. But we adhere to our rule: no paradox.

experimentalfilm! said...

i'm gonna try to explain what im thinking about once and for all but its probably not gonna work so ill just give it a go .

lets say that desmond's flashes of the past are happening in the present time . "2004" . 2004 = past flashes . okay . so did desmond see the future in the ACTUAL 1996 ? they had to have, right ? or else desmond probably wouldn't have been discharged, and penny wouldn't have known that he was gonna call on christmas eve .
HOWEVER - was there a point where these flashes stopped ? lets say in real past time, desmonds on his little boat ride . he lands on the island and all that jazz . did he keep having these flashes of the future all this time ? cause they never showed him going catatonic in the real flashbacks .

basic question: did desmond's time-jumping start only after the hatch implosion ?

phew .

Melissa_Lossa said...

experimental - in short, yes, I think Des was seeing 2004 in 1996. For this brief time, 1996 Des WAS the only Desmond. That's why he didn't remember anything from the past eight years. However, everything that he experienced in 1996 actually happened - that's why Penny knew he was going to call and Dan had mention of him in his journal.

His time jumping started at the implosion - if not for the implosion, he wouldn't have jumped back in time while they were flying in the first place.

Codysmom said...

There's no paradox because it's only on a conscious level. Desmond really is in the Army... his body doesn't disappear when his mind goes to when he's on the Christiane 1. He probably just looks catatonic. It would be hard to follow orders when your mind isn't there... so he gets dishonorably discharged. Does this sound right?

experimentalfilm said....did desmond's time-jumping start only after the hatch implosion ?

I think so..

Melissa_Lossa said...

Okay, I think I've had all I can take for tonight. I'm going crossed-eyed. Good night!

experimentalfilm! said...

i agree codys mom . that would most likely be why he was discharged .

desmonds time jumping had to have always existed though (starting in 96 i mean) or else it would create a butterfly effect ..

but im still wondering, did his flashes of the future continue once after the penny incident ? during the boat ride and all that ? OR did they stop once he found a constant ?

NewtonsGrubby said...

Quite a nite I must agree, first time posting here, looooong time lurker but i've been keeping up. Im going to try and be more involved this season.

experimentalfilm! said...

(by boat ride i mean boat ride around the world, widmores contest boatride)

my brain is vibrating .

MoreLostThanU said...

Hello All, Been more than a week for me, been very busy.

Great episode! Looks like we were wrong about the time difference.

MoreLostThanU said...

I think now that I've caught up for the night I'm going to mark my place and try to sleep on it.

Probably going to be a while though going to work my my novel for a while before turning in. I may be back.

My brain is fried

Codysmom said...

Hi, newtonsgrubby! Jump right in!

Faraday said you need a high amount of radiation or elecromagnetism for this to happen (like the rat/maze). The rat got radiation and Des got a big shot of elecromagnetism when he turned the failsafe key in the Swan.

I'm wondering if all the other island people will have varying effects from the Swan implosion; effects like we've seen with Desmond but not as often or will show up much later?

experimentalfilm! said...
desmonds time jumping had to have always existed though (starting in 96 i mean) or else it would create a butterfly effect ..

Hmmm... explain....

Ange said...

codysmom said...I'm wondering if all the other island people will have varying effects from the Swan implosion; effects like we've seen with Desmond but not as often or will show up much later?

Maybe that's part of what they are exposing people to in Room 23...electromagnetism and radiation amongst other things.

Also welcome newtonsgrubby!

Codysmom said...

experimentalfilm! said...
My brain is fried

LOL!

Yes, hopefully with more episodes this will become more clear..

I do love the idea of having a constant, though. It's like tying in science/faith kind of.

Codysmom said...

Ange said...
codysmom said...I'm wondering if all the other island people will have varying effects from the Swan implosion; effects like we've seen with Desmond but not as often or will show up much later?

Maybe that's part of what they are exposing people to in Room 23...electromagnetism and radiation amongst other things.

Interesting idea. We know that Walt was in that room...

experimentalfilm! said...

okay codysmom, -cracks knuckles- here we go haha ..

i said "desmonds time jumping had to have always existed though (starting in 96 i mean) or else it would create a butterfly effect .."

meaning, in ACTUAL 1996 he had to have seen the future .. or else everything would be different if the time jumping started now .

Capcom said...

Welcome Newton!

Codysmom said...

experimentalfilm! said...
meaning, in ACTUAL 1996 he had to have seen the future .. or else everything would be different if the time jumping started now .

I guess instead of Des seeing the future, could you say that his mind went to 1996 when he was actually in 2004? His mind knew of future time even though he was in 1996 because of his time-jumping mind that occured while on the Christiane 1? So, your past and present self can benefit from this, but not your future self?

OMG, If you start to talk about when the time jumping started, then I think we now know why last week's episode was called Eggtown... as in, which came first, the chicken or the egg?

OWWWWW, that hurts......

Ange said...

Okay last one for tonight, and I actually got out of bed to think about this...
We're speculating that this jumping could be the sickness?

*Danielle's people all had it, but she didn't. She mentions that they all went crazy from the sickness and she had to kill them.

*They were all on a science expedition, so it is possible that they were experimenting with electro magnetics or radiation. Then they passed through whatever bearing to get to the island and all went jumpy nuts like Mankowski.

*Maybe Danielle wasn't effected because she was pregnant with Alex...maybe that's where pregnancy comes into play. Somehow being pregnant anchors you and if you become pregnant on the island it un-anchors the fetus. (Too weird? Eek sorry.)

*Is this what the Vaccine is for then? Does it somehow trick a body into thinking it is anchored (false pregnancy maybe)?

experimentalfilm! said...

ooOOOOoooo , interesting ange !

Codysmom said...

LOL, experimentalfilm... I think you gave up on me..

But, I see where you raise this question:
did they (flashes) stop once he found a constant ?

That's a good question and I guess I'm not sure, but at least it seems so at this time. Des seems at peace and he remembers Sayid's name and the island. When Daniel sees his notes that Desmond is his constant, he also seems to feel at peace.

Ange, I like your idea about Rousseau having Alex as her constant and that's why she didn't get sick.

I want to re-watch the part where Daniel talks about the constant. Is it that there is an anchor between the island and the real world? (in which case, a newborn conceived on the island wouldn't have that?)

Codysmom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Capcom said...

Well the West Coastie's should be getting into it about now, right? I'm gonna try to hang on here, but I had to take a pill for my bad back and I'm starting to get groggy. I want to see Maven's reactions tho, if she logs on tonight! :-D

DiggityDirge said...

Hey everyone,

Just finished watching. DirectTV in my area had problems with our local channels so I missed the first 5 minutes, but a pretty good epi none the less.

I don't really have a huge list of comments, just a few points I thought were interesting:

Desmond Hume will be my constant: It was kind of interesting to see how calculating Dan could be. Dan had absolutly no interest in helping Desmond, just using him to help make his time machine work and act as another Eloise to help himself find a contstant between both times. Good for Desmond on figuring his own way out of it. Now we are starting to get a feel for Dan's pat life and those of you who speculated it had something to with time travel were spot on. By the way, didn't Eloise remind you of one of those #8 rabbits Ben likes to use.

Desmond isn't physically time traveling, his conscience is. Thought that was interesting. I don't think a lot of us figured on him physically time traveling since his body never left, but it helps us understand what is going a bit. What it doesn't help us do is understand why they found a polar bear in Tunesia. BTW, did everyone see how pissed Charolette was at Dan.

Penny has been looking for Desmond for three years. I'm not sure when he shipwrecked. Going to have do a bit of homework to see if time has passed differently on the island than offisland. Penny knows about the island so hopefully she will rescue our losties from the evil freightees. Anyone know? And we still have no bloody idea why Naomi had a picture of Desmond and Penny.

Interesting that people who traveled to the island are having the same issue aa Desmond. Guess we all know why Minkowski was busy last week. Were they exposed to the hatch explosion, or do they expereince exposure to a large amount of radiation/electromagnetism when the travel to the island?

I still think Michael is the spy. They did a good job of hiding him this episode, but I still think the big reveal will be that him and Walt are on the boat.

Going back to read comments now.

maven said...

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!

Sayid'sgirl said...

Ange said:
Sheesh will Kate start seeing Claire, is Jack seeing his dad, did Hurley really see and speak to Charlie?

I thought after the first episode that maybe Jack started seeing his dad and that was what was making him crazy.

Jess4ua said:
ML- Yeah, but Des started this once the hatch exploded. Also, it happened to Danielle's crew, I think, and not her. HMmmmmmmm!

That’s a good thought about Danielle’s crew. And she did say something like she couldn’t let them go back or be rescued.
I think you have to be exposed to radiation or electromagnetism first like Des and Dan then try to leave or go to the island to be effected.

Jess4ua said
He changed the future, because he would have died if he didn't do that in the past.

I think maybe he changed the past so he would have a future.

Capcom said...

Hey Diggity!

I think that 1996-Dan was having some bad times at Oxford, so he didn't trust Des right away. Then once he realized that Des was on the level and not pranking him, he got all excited about the experiment. Once he calmed down, he seemed to be able to connect with Des, but then it was time for Des to leave. On the island, 2004-Dan then had the knowledge, maturity, and experience to help Des more, and to empathize more as well.

Yeah, I expected to see a number on the side of Dan's mouse. :-)

Capcom said...

Heheh, hi Maven! :-D

Sayid'sgirl said...

ange said:
*Danielle's people all had it, but she didn't. She mentions that they all went crazy from the sickness and she had to kill them.

*They were all on a science expedition, so it is possible that they were experimenting with electro magnetics or radiation. Then they passed through whatever bearing to get to the island and all went jumpy nuts like Mankowski.


We're thinking along the same lines here. I was thinking the same thing just didn't include it in my last post.

*Maybe Danielle wasn't effected because she was pregnant with Alex...maybe that's where pregnancy comes into play. Somehow being pregnant anchors you and if you become pregnant on the island it un-anchors the fetus. (Too weird? Eek sorry.)

Yeah that's kind of an Eek. :)
I'm not sure being pregnant with a baby could anchor you since you have to make contact in both times. I guess technically you'd have contact just not sure if that's what he means. Also the way he was talking it wouldn't neccessarily have to be a person just something constant in both times. Something that would help you to be able to tell which time was which unlike the rat.

Steve said...

Hey all, I agree. Best Episode this season (and one of the best all-around)!

While we are talking about all the find815 clues coming home, I just wanted to point out a few things...

The LOST video game, Via Domus, is rather short (buy the $30 PC version, not the $60 xbox version), but some old friends are in it. Mittlewerk, Widmore, Sri Lanka... and it's ending might be another clue about the island, though I wont discuss spoilers.

David said...

I think widmore had more knowledge of what was going on with desmond. My wacky theory is that he left the sink on hoping that desmond would time travel and drown in the water.

Capcom said...

Hey Steve, how much of the game is the extra stuff that they said would give us the opportunity to see more of the stations, the island, etc.? Tx.

DiggityDirge said...

In regards to the time paradox question. The if you go back in time and kill your grandmother thoery doesn't apply here. There is no physical time travel taking place.

They went out of their way to say "they unstick you in time." Daniel says he sent Eloise's consciousness to the future. Keep in mind Desmond only has flashes of the future, but all of his episodes have centered on desmond flashbacks where he can change the future. i.e. Desomond's body is already there, but his future mind is laso. That gives him the ability to change events if he sees fit.

Am I the only oeen who saw Daniel use Dez to help him, not to help Dez survive. Daniel knows Dez is in the future and can act as his constant, and really doesn't do anything in the future of past to help Dez. He simply wanted to get the information he needed before Dez dies.

Codysmom said...

Will somebody please scrape maven's brain off the ceiling? LOL

diggity, I didn't get the impression than Daniel was selfishly using Desmond... my first thought was that Daniel had written that in his book a long time ago, but it didn't make sense until now. I'll have to keep that in mind, though, when I watch again.

Capcom said...

I really don't see Dan's actions in that way Diggity. I mean, as a typical singleminded scientist, he wants to see his theories to work in the worst way. But Dan is always trying to make nice between arguments, and being sympathetic. My opinion of what happened in 1996 is above. But, I could be wrong.

Capcom said...

I'm thinking that too Codysmom. Perhaps Dan used himself as a lab rat in his experiments, and he got the problem too, so he thought to make Des his constant for the future.

DiggityDirge said...

Hey Capcom,

I agree Dan was freaked at first, but Dez nearly had to beat the "constant" answer out of Dan before he explained it. I took that as Dan wanting to milk all the info he could from Dez before he died. If only Dez wouldn't have seen Eloise, Dan maybe could have milked him for more.

The thing that really set it home for me was how they started the epi with Dan looking for his journal, and then at the end Dan showing the page that Dez is his contstant.

I think Dan would have gone to help Dez instead of being so focussed on his research. Dan even said I wouldn't cross the street, which means Desmonds odd's of surviving a trip to somewhere were slim to none. I mean, Dez did give Dan the key he was looking for. Dan could have atleast returned the favor.

Sayid'sgirl said...

I don't really think Dan knew why Des was there,he thought his future self sent him back to help him with his equations. But he did tell Des what he needed to do to help his future self from dying.
Also do you think Dan has done the experiment he's working on in the promo before and it went wrong and that's maybe why he needed a constant?

Steve said...

Capcom said...
Hey Steve, how much of the game is the extra stuff that they said would give us the opportunity to see more of the stations, the island, etc.? Tx.


Well you don't see too much new material of the island itself, but you do get to see what's behind the magnetic concrete wall in the hatch. That alone was worth playing the game. Most of the "wow" moments relate to The Lost Experience more than the show though. It's not 'canon' of course, but it can probably provide some more clues.

DiggityDirge said...

and we still don't know why Naomi had a picture of Dez and Penny. That is absolutely killing me!

Capcom said...

Well, I see what you are saying, but I still don't think that Dan was being that coldhearted. Maybe I missed something. Or, I've spent too much time working with kooky scientists who go off on tangents and have no clue what's going on around them. :-)

maven said...

Loving all these Find815 things!

Codysmom said...

Hubby surprised me with a present tonight... the Lost game! I didn't have much time to look at it yet tho.... I got to a place that you have to turn knobs to re-direct the gas flow so the plane doesn't blow, but I don't know how to do it

Capcom said...

Tx, Steve! I wouldn't care how much really was canon to the show I guess. I just want to see some more weird DHARMA junk! :-)

Capcom said...

Codysmom, DarkUFO has help videos up now, if you get really stuck.

Codysmom said...

Ah, there you are maven! Yes, I think they have finished with all the 815 clues now

Codysmom said...

thanks, capcom...
I'll check it out. I didn't really have time to play it much really... since LOST was coming on:)

Capcom said...

Right, all the 815 nuggets were awesome. I'm looking forward to what Fenris mgiht write up about that on the Bullets blog.

Steve said...

Codysmom said...
Hubby surprised me with a present tonight... the Lost game! I didn't have much time to look at it yet tho.... I got to a place that you have to turn knobs to re-direct the gas flow so the plane doesn't blow, but I don't know how to do it.


It took me a while to figure out those mini-games too... it's a math problem. on the dial you will see a green area, just estimate the range of that green section (usually around 55-65) and make sure you use the right fuses to supply only enough voltage to the dial. elbow pieces reduce your volts by 5, T-joints reduce by 15 and cross-pieces reduce by 30.

You start with 100, so just count how many fuses you need to use to complete the circuit and do the math to figure out which pieces to use. Some of the circuits in the hatch and in the Flame are rather difficult. You need to light up 3-4 gages at once. >_<

maven said...

OMG...BEST EPISODE EVER! I'VE GOT A HEADACHE!

Sayid'sgirl said...

You guys are going to think I'm crazy but I'm still not convinced that they are in the Pacific.
The one guy says he from Vegas and the other is from Florida. But as far as where we are I...The other guy interupts and says. We last ported in Fiji, so at least me know we are still in the Pacific.
I think they either don't know where the are or they are lying about where they are. Or maybe one knows and is lying and the other one doesn't know.

Capcom said...

Wasn't it awesome Maven?! Well, we have a whole week to pick this apart. :-)

Sayid'sgirl said...

There's still one more find815 clue (as far as I know just one) the three numbers that might be a combination. I can't remember what they were.

Sayid'sgirl said...

I looked it up on my notes. It's 36-15-28.

Codysmom said...

You're right, sayid'sgirl: 36-15-28

Capcom said...

That looks like the Barbie doll's measurements in human ratio. :-)

Codysmom said...

LOL

Codysmom said...

Is the Maxwell login site ever going to go active?

scoutpost said...

Hello all!
I just finished watching the episode and won't get a chance to read all the comments til tomorrow...but I would like to quote the late great Chris Farley and say- Holy Shnikeys!!

I'm almost ready to send up the white flag on this one, I think LOST has gone past my intellectual abilities this time!

This episode was really good. Random comments:
I hope Desmond doesn't die.
Minkowski did not look anything like how I pictured him to look.
I figure Ben's mole unlocked the sick bay door for Des and Sayid. It wasn't too much of a surprise that Dan was time traveling too. That explains the reason he was crying when the freckage was found but couldn't remember why, and the whole memory game with the cards.

Well I'll have to mull this one over- gotta head to bed. Look forward to discussing (if I ever catch up) with you guys tomorrow.

Hey at least they mentioned Christmas!
Kyle- we may get mention of the 2004 tsunami yet!

Sayid'sgirl said...

Well I guess I should go to bed. Time flies when you're talking Lost. I'll check back in tomorrow. Night All.

maven said...

I'm re-watching right now (with hubby)! I've also been trying to catch up on comments attempting to get a handle on this amazing episode!
Random thoughts:

*Penny has been researching the island because of Magnus' journal that her father bid on! (Love this tie-in).
*The two sailors (I think Omar from Florida and Keemy(?) from Vegas) seemed to be keeping a secret as to where their ship had been...maybe threw in Fiji to placate Sayid?
*So physically the body doesn't travel? Dan said that the perception of how long the helicopter had been gone is different. It's the consciousness that time travels, not the body. Eloise didn't "disappear" in the maze.
*Love the idea that Rousseau's crew went "crazy" with the time travel stuff. That is the sickness!
*Desmond's exposure to electromagnetism: Why didn't Locke and Eko and Charlie have the same symptoms? They were exposed too.
*How did Minkowski know Desmond was Penny's boyfriend? Obviously, Widmore controls the ship.
*When the sick bay's door is magically opened for them...might be Ben's man on the boat helping them.
*Love the idea of the need for a Constant. Desmond being Dan's Constant because Desmond is important to his experiments...gives him the magic numbers.

Codysmom said...

Steve, thanks for the help on the Lost game.... ugh! Math??? Oh, well... but I think I get it now... thanks again

Codysmom said...

I like all the points you bring up, maven. Unfortunately, I really have to go to bed.

maven said...

When Minkowski "dies" he says "I can't get back!". Does that mean you get stuck in the past?

I can see how Danielle would have gone crazy with all her crew members bleeding from their nose and going bonkers about not being able to get back!

maven said...

Codysmom: Thanks for trying to stay up! We all need to get a good night's sleep! Will we ever figure this out! LOL

Googenstock said...

First time poster, long time lurker. I definitely had an overload tonight, in a great way, with lots of answers having been given.

Apart from what's already been talked about, I really loved seeing how the island's lineage is finally coming together. Clearly, the crew of Black Rock experienced the island, which was written in that journal, which ended up in Hanso's hands, and then in Widimore's, which, at least partially explains their interest (the Maxwell Group, to go back to Find815) in finding Black Rock. Maybe it was obvious to others, but that link really made me happy. I think that journal's contents may be very significant.

maven said...

Googenstock: Welcome (are you on PST?)

Yes! I think Penny got info on the island from Magnus' journal. What ever's been happening on the island has been happening for some time. Maybe we'll get some answers at The Temple!

I love all the Find815 stuff being on the show! The painting of the Black Rock was awesome! And actually seeing the Journal, too!

Googenstock said...

Yeah, I'm a PST'er. And thanks!

So back to Dan, we're theorizing that he is now finished time-jumping when he saw his little note to himself at the end? And we're also to assume he's been time-jumping for quite some time, at least longer than anyone else? Because it seems like Minkowski and his expired friend were recent "time-jumpers" and couldn't handle it and we almost lost Desmond, but Faraday has been jumping for much longer yet didn't have an aneurysm yet (nor any symptoms, from what I can recall, except the card game detail). Am I missing something here?

maven said...

Maybe it has something to do with having The Constant? Without it...having something meaningful to you whatever time in your in...you can't handle what it does to your brain (hence the nosebleeds).

(BTW: I'm in So. Calif. Where are you?)

maven said...

I'm calling it for the night...hope I'll be able to sleep!

Googenstock said...

So Cal as well!

Right, you need The Constant to stabilize the time-jumping, to remember both worlds. But, we're theorizing that when we saw Faraday balling his eyes out when we first saw him in his flashback/forward, that it may have been because he was engaged in this time-jump phenomenon. And the card game was another hint. So are his side effects just not as bad? I think he'd be nose-bleeding by now if so.

I don't know - I'm not convinced Dan has been time-jumping, which will also put me in the camp that he wasn't using Desmond, because he didn't really understand what was going on at first. I think that note at the end may have a different significance, unless there's a detail I'm missing. BUT, I do think NOW he might force himself to be a time-jumper, in a future episode, now that he has his insurance. Did Desmond say he was on an island in '96? Maybe Dan wanted to come along on this expedition to link up with his "Constant" so that he can experiment on himself?

Which (and this is my last thought, then I'll head to bed as well) now may also mean the Constant doesn't stop the time-jumping - it only controls it. Maybe Des can see in the future and hop into the past! OK, I got carried away. Til the morn.

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