Tuesday, June 19, 2007

The Lost Community Podcast - Episode 29

Hosts David A. Dein and Steve "The Goog" Guglich unpack "Pilot, Part 2", from the hit TV show LOST. Along the way we answer some e-mails, read some criticism, and try to stay as focused as possible. Got a comment or a question? Join in by sending an e-mail to TLCPodcast@gmail.com or by calling 732-564-4763.

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Also join the fun of David and Steve's brand new non-LOST related podcast, The Devil's Advocate with David and The Goog. To find out more send an E-mail to TDApodcast@gmail.com or listen live Wednesday's at 5pm at Talkshoe.com.

184 comments:

Ange said...

Wow, First?

Sheesh there has been a lot going on this week. I am off for the summer and have already been busier than when I am at work. So:

1. memphish thanks for the heads up on the Michael Emerson interview from the last post, it was great!

2. That was a short FARG.

3. I said it on MS, but here too CONGRATS Thrasher and Mrs. Thrasher...my vote for a name, Optimus Prime Thrasher.

4. Is Watership Down discussion tomorrow?

Okay that's about it...podcast time. *wave*

memphish said...

I'm combining some posts from the previous thread because I want to hear some more takes on this.

So I'm pressing on in Hearts in Atlantis and I come across this in reference to another William Golding book The Inheritors.

The family you meet first . . . they're Neanderthals. The second familiy--only that one's really a tribe . . . are Cro-Magnons. The Cro Magnons are the inheritors. What happens between the two groups satisfies the definition of tragedy: events tending toward an unhappy outcome which cannot be avoided.

And it dawns on me -- LOST isn't just a drama, it's a tragedy like Hamlet. Does anyone write tragedies anymore? Is that why Jack's fate in TTLG was so disconcerting because we don't know how to deal with tragedy in fiction anymore? This is dredging up high school English memories of hubris and fatal flaws. Jack and his obsession with needing to fix something; Locke and his need to belong--these are Shakespearean tragic heroes, not the fairy tale "and they lived happily ever after" heroes.

Hey LoCos can you think of some modern fictional tragedies--book, play, film?

Can post-modern Americans handle endings that aren't tied up with a bow and they all live happily ever after? Response to The Sopranos ending suggests not, but response to the Heroes finally suggests we don't want a hastily tied bow either.

memphish said...

And a link to my silly question of the day.

Dennis said...

Fun anagram of the day...

ACME Air Drop = A Comrade R.I.P.

Dennis said...

Ange said... 4. Is Watership Down discussion tomorrow?

I'm behind in the comments, has this changed?

I thought the discussion was supposed to start on the last Wednesday of the month, which is the 27th.

Ange said...

Memphish...I really really like your blog!

As for contemporary tragedy, how about The Time Travelers Wife?

Dennis said...I thought the discussion was supposed to start on the last Wednesday of the month, which is the 27th

You're right, I just needed to look at the main page a little better and then think about it. Thanks though for pointing me in the right direction :D.

Dennis said...

We got a new goat on Sunday!!!!

Her name is Rachel Blake :)

Rachel and Me
Rachel and Albert and Simone

ib4uc said...

dennis... great pics.

Was reading Kristen and she had a youtube link to the following Synchronised Events Around Plane Crash

It's pretty interesting.

maven said...

Morning all!

Thanks for another podcast, guys...will have to listen later today.

Ange said: my vote for a name, Optimus Prime Thrasher.
ROFLMAO!! Perfect!

Dennis: Your Rachel Blake is so cute! Hope she doesn't get into too much trouble like her namesake.

Memphish: Am thinking about your tragedy in fiction question...have to run out now, but will bbl today.

capcom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
capcom said...

Hi LoCos!

I haven't listened to the podcast yet, but will reply to the previous thread Q first.

I don't know about 21st century post-modern viewers as a whole being able to handle complicated, tragic, bittersweet, or not-completely-happy-endings, because western civilization lately has been leaning more towards happy-meal drive-thru entertainment type of satisfaction. Excluding Lost viewers, of course, who look forward to every new puzzle and arcane reference with each episode so they can spend rest of the week (or rest of the year!) studying up! :-)

But 20th century literature/movie viewers were very interested in the tragic tales of people like Hemmingway, Fitzgerald, O'Neil, Williams, etc. Look at what a big hit The Great Gatsby eventually became, and still is (considered the Greaet American Novel). To me, that's a tale that you really can't get out of your mind! While the more upbeat side is how the main character worked his way up from being a poor kid to hob-nobbing with the society that he aspired to be a part of, in the end he dies a very unfair death because of that elite society. Gatsby never lives long enough to learn any of the lessons he needs to cope with his obsessions and somewhat misguided aspirations. But the author leaves a ton of lessons and feelings for the viewer/reader to take away from the story, much like TPTB do with Lost.

I have a creeping feeling that Lost is going to end in a similar manner. We've already lost a bunch of well-liked characters, so I don't think that TPTB are going to spare our feelings too much if the result would be a powerful ending or message for the viewers to sit and stew over, after the final scene's final "blackout", and we're sitting there with our mouths gaping open. :-O Or at least I'm preparing myself for that outcome anyway, to be ready. Gulp!

capcom said...

Well, I guess after The Sopranos ending I should not have said blackout, but y'all know I'm talking about. The way that Lost ends with that powerful blackout-with-Lost-logo punch. At least with the Lost blackout, we know when the show's over! :o)

memphish said...

Great post Capcom. Good stuff about The Great Gatsby.

I'm watching Picture of Dorian Gray this morning which I taped last night. Boy what a moral abyss that guy falls into. It reminds me of King Midas and definitely falls into the be careful what you wish for category. The George Sanders character reminds me somewhat of Ben -- he places deep, philosophical thoughts in Dorian's mind, but lets him be the one to test the theories rather than himself. I wonder if the self-referencing of the Oscar Wilde poem Dorian reads to Sybil was in the original story or a film-maker's touch. It's kind of like using Darlton's voice in LOST.

FYSB said...

Dennis, your Rachel Blake is so cute! Have you had any problems with her using small household appliances as weapons against another goat?

Dennis said...

I haven't seen her wielding an iron, but she does like to dress up in a pizza delivery outfit.

Melissa_Lossa said...

oh my gosh, Dennis - the goats are so cute! :) And thanks for clearing up that discussion starts next week. I'm really looking forward to it!

Just a reminder, too - we not only have the official book list on Amazon, we also have The Lost Community Recommended book list! If you have a favorite that you want to recommend to all of your new friends, let me know, and I'll get it added.

Administrator said...

Dennis, Nice goat.
Thrasher, Way to go!
David & The Goog, Great podcasts! Both of them.
Capcom & Memphish, Thanks for keeping us on our mental toes.

All, June 27th is the planned date for Watershipdown discussion. It seems like a long wait. I hope the last wednesday plan is effective. We can always make adjustments.

Passafist said...

Do you guys want to do this discussion live?? We can set up a talkshoe chat room and record the conversation and put it up like a podcast. If someone want to supply me with some discussion questions I don't mind leading the discussion??

Melissa_Lossa said...

Hey, passafist -

I got your e-mail, and I was going to ask the same thing - if you wanted to do a live discussion next Wednesday. I can get you some questions by then, if you like. Let me know. Thanks for the offer!

Passafist said...

What time do you want to do this??!! I have my own podaast recording at five but we're usually done by 6:30est. We could probably start it around 7pm.

Melissa_Lossa said...

That would be perfect for me. Gives me plenty of time to get home from work. Is that rushing things too much for you? We could do this Thursday, instead, if that's better.

capcom said...

You're right about Dorian Gray, Memphish! And Oscar Wilde could be added to a list of writers of not-so-happy-but-meaningful stories, albeit of the 19thC.

Going to listen to the podcast now!

Passafist said...

Thursday would be horrible, our station is hosting a Nate Sallie Echoing Angels concert that night!!! Actually tuesday and/or friday would be better!!!

capcom said...

I just listened to the podcast, gentlemen! Very entertaining, as usual! You guys kill me. And don't listen to that nasty old first email that you read, I think that person was listening to something else and thought that it was your podcast. He was so wrong. I guess he wants NO LAFFING!!!!! Not me, you guys crack me up when you start laughing, it's one of my favorite parts of the podcast, cuz it's contagious! :-D

scoutpost said...

Hey all!
I haven't gone back to catch up on comments....did I miss some important news?! Congrats Thrasher and Mrs. Thrasher!!! I like Ange's idea of Optimus Prime Thrasher. Can't you just hear it- "Optimus!- time to come in for dinner"...or what about the teacher doing roll call- "Optimus?" hehe

Memphish great question about modern tragedy. I think it is dwindling away, although it probably appears more in literature than in film. I know too many people who only go to movies with a feel good end. My husband keeps renting inspirational sports themed movies. Nothing wrong with those, but I think tragedies aren't too popular/moneymakers in Hollywood. Personally I've always been drawn to tragedies- don't know what the heck that says about me.

Dennis- congrats on Rachel- she's so cute. Does she bleat in Rachel font?

TLC said...

Capcom,

I've probably mentioned this a hundred times, but our podcast was about 15 minutes longer before I edited out almost 10 minutes of us ripping that guy a new one. I figured I'd play nice..

Melissa_Lossa said...

I'd say Tuesday for the podcast, then. What do you think? We can do a little preview to kick off the big discussion on Wednesday.

Let me know if you're game!

chucklez3 said...

is he podcast tonight???

chucklez3 said...

passafist:

any way i could ever actually COME BY for the podcast?

just curious. i'm in the maplewood / irvington area.

work in chatham.

memphish said...

Apologies in advance for the length of this post and the lack of timeliness. I just listened to last week's TLC podcast about Pilot Part 1.

David, I love your idea that the opening is controlled because Jack is in control. I didn't go back to check, but could Jack have counted to 5 before he walked toward the crash on the beach?

The healing thing with Rose, I just think it's that the Island is Rose's place like Isaac of Uluru said. And the Island only heals certain people because it's only the right place for certain people. The reviving thing doesn't work for me because of Jack's efforts with the Marshal and Libby.

The Counting to 5 story has paid off in each season -- first, as Capcom said, in the episode itself with Kate in the trees, then in Ep. 2.1 when Kate goes into the Hatch she counts to 4 before Desmond grabs her, and then of course in Ep 3.7.

You point out that Jack misjudges Kate and her running. I think Jack is a pretty rotten judge of people from his ex-wife on through Juliet, so this is just the first proof of that.

I'm looking forward to your tracking of "the Others" no matter who that refers to.

Jack and flying lessons -- here's my wacky theory. There's a time loop issue and Future Jack took flying lessons that Season 1 Jack remembers taking, but doesn't remember why he took them. I can buy both David and Steve's theories too.

The monster/noises/Smokey/pilot attack just confuses me. I'll pass on that for now.

When David posited that the turbulence caused the plane to become 2 planes, I made the same groan Steve did. I think the plane in a trench off Bali was faked by Ben and it's easy to do, a fan did it.

More in the next post.

memphish said...

More Podcast 28 comments.

An EMP would not attract the plane right? It would mess up the electronics and engine causing the crash. Sayid says when he's trying to find out what's behind the wall in the Swan that the piece of the plane he's using to try to bash in the magnetic wall isn't attracted to magnets.

The "throw away" background conversation about the monster noises is why I love LOST. It's not throw away. It's a clue about the sound the monster makes, the NYC cab receipt sound, and it's funny with the monkey line. These types of things are the payoffs for the obsessives like me. Bryan Burk is the producer who comes up with the sounds, including the monster sounds.

Charlie's ring as explained by DL on the OLP. In The Pilot, Dominic ad libbed the line about the ring being from the 2nd tour of Finland. When he said it, I thought he meant it was something everyone in the band got as a result of that tour, as I think David assumed as well. When they came to write Greatest Hits, they made it Dexter Stratton's ring and Liam gave it to Charlie during the 2nd tour of Finland, so it adds up, though not completely satisfactorily in my book.

Rain in Season 3 -- when Juliet and Kate are handcuffed together it rained. It was also raining when Pickett was going to execute Sawyer at the end of I Do. That's all I can think of off hand.

The guy whose leg was crushed at the Fusies' beach is still alive. Jack tells Boone in the Pilot that he removed the tourniquet and he'll be fine. Donald, the man who broke his leg at the Tailies' beach who had it set by Libby, he died.

And finally Scott is dead -- it's alphabetical.

maven said...

Finally got to listen to podcast!
BTW: Saw 4400...just think Battle of the Messiahs! LOL

Ignore that email, guys! We love ya! Loved how you exaggerated all of his points.

Getting to know the characters is central to any story. A slow reveal is much more interesting rather than finding out everything right away. Makes you question their motives. We have slowly come to realize how important Locke is to the overall story.

Agree that Rousseau and Alex were somehow spared from the gassing of the Purge. Would make sense that she saw it as a "sickness". But I don't agree that Danielle is Annie.

Agree with the emailer that DS ring was more modern style. I guess the pewter was supposed to make it appear more heirloom-ish, but the DS print was modern.

I agree with you, David, that the island is the character that is the most important thing. I really want to know how and WHY our Losties get off the island. I hope this doesn't become the dreaded Nine!

Ange said...

scoutpost said......or what about the teacher doing roll call- "Optimus?"
You should hear some of the actual names I've had to say doing roll call!

Anyone still have that picture of Thrasher in a dress? I think that is one to save for the little Thrasherlet to see when he/she grows up.

Dennis, I have never had occasion to use these words before but, I like your goats. :D

PS: Laughing at yourself in the podcast in turn makes me laugh...so keep it up (long pauses and all) and don't change a thing.

egg said...

Recommended addition to reading list (and you can also see the movie version): Catch-22.

capcom said...

TLC, well at least you got to get it out of your system then! :o) You both were very gentlemanly in the podcast, and you handled it in a most humorous way.

Scoutpost, your post made me think about how the particular zeitgeist of a specific era can have a lot to do with what kind of movies people watch. Like how Shirley Temple movies and silly comedies were made during the Depression. Perhaps right now people need some lifting up of their spirits. Living during a war is the obvious guess why, but also maybe in our age of instantaneous info, there is just too much negativity being pounded into our eyes and brains.....Britney Spears psychotic trauma (do we really need to know that?!), so many people and children being hurt on a daily basis, politicians arguing incessently....as nauseum. And there is so much personal violence happening to people all over the world. Maybe it's all getting to some folks and they need to be uplifted?

BarbaraJay said...

Happy Baby, Thrasher and Mrs. Thrasher!

Thinking of tragedy in film related to the times, I go back to the movies of my youth in the late Sixties and early Seventies. Easy Rider, The Wild Bunch, Dirty Harry, A Clockwork Orange (early room 23.) Even Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid didn't leave 'em laughing.

capcom said...

You're right Babarajay, at that time a lot of films were very gritty! Violent Sam Peckinpaw(sp?) films were big. And the outlaw-hero, or anti-hero, was very much in fashion as well. I was sooo into Easy Rider back then. Guffaw!!!!! :-B

memphish said...

Hmmm, but do we need to hide tragedy in other genres like the Western where the "heroes" are anti-heroes and have done a lot of bad stuff so they don't deserve good? I think the tragic hero like where we seem to be headed with Jack, Locke and possibly Desmond are different than the anti-hero a la Sawyer and Kate and maybe Ben or the comic hero such as Hurley and Charlie.

Thanks everyone for you thoughts about tragedy, tragic heroes, etc. today. If anyone else comes up with more, please chime in.

Amused2bHere said...

Thinking of modern tragedies...(good question, Memphish! Lots of discussion on this one)

Capcom, Scoutpost, very good points you've made. I also can't think of too many tragic movies made since 9/11/01. We seem to need the hopeful endings.

(putting out soapbox)
However, I see this trend predating the current war era. I don't know if our generation can understand a tragic but noble end. We don't seem to have the palate for sacrifice, think it's a waste. "There's nothing noble about what Charlie did" and "tantamount to suicide since he could have gotten out" are the comments I've read. Huh? He did it for Claire and Aaron. He thought he needed to, so he did.

How many of us (well, not US, but you know what I mean) would rewrite the end of A Tale of Two Cities to have both the look-a-likes escape the guillotine? Or change the way Romeo and Juliet ends, with their plan working out and they run off together to live out their lives in Spain? feh. Was it worth the lives of those 5 men who saved Private Ryan? Can our generation appreciate the sacrifice of Christ on the cross, or was that a foolish waste too?

Maybe this question should carry over to the Stories of the Lost blog, but I'm not sure the general population today can digest a good tragedy like Hamlet. Or Gatsby for that matter. They just can't relate.

(stepping down, putting box away)

I hope that didn't sound too harsh. I get riled up sometimes.

Amused2bHere said...

Dennis, btw the goats are so cute!

You let Rachel play dress up? wtmi, my friend.

lol

DeDJeZTeR said...

Memphish,

Isaac of Uluru... you can't trust that guy at all, after all he played Scorpius on Farscape, and in that he was very creepy
(nurse its time to change my glow sticks... lol)

Sayids piece of metal was Titanium which is non magnetic metal, and that is what he said, not that the wall wasn't magnetic.

Dave and Goog,

I watch Stargate SG-1, You talked in this podcast about character development. This is the true backbone of this show. You have the cowardly nerd who becomes a fighting force professional in the SGC (Stargate Command), The military scientist who learns to rely on others to help her, The alien Jaffa Teal'c who learns to be human by interacting with fellow team members, like The leader (MacGuyver) Jack O'Neill, the military commander with a heart of gold and the silver tounge to match. The man can take the most heroic moments and reduce them to something that you can laugh at. We need some more people like this in the world to ease the thoughts of the masses.
Just watch one episode "Window of Oppritunity." It is an episode in which Jack O'Niell and Teal'c are trapped in a time loop, and realize that they can do anything they want without being in trouble... And hilarity ensues.

You really shouldn't knock it (not that you were), but it is really an outstanding show and always was, hell the Pilot evan had full frontal... jokes aside, it is a well written and longest running Scifi show on TV. 10 years is nothing to laugh at in our world of "One Season Wonders." I just coined that phrase... it belongs to me...ha ha ha. They always found a way to make it fresh and clever without treating the viewer like they were a stupid 10 year old. (like Lucas) If I could I would lend you the dvd's of seasons 1 - 9, plus the original movie to make you see the light.

This Friday is the Last episode of SG-1 (Atlantis continues) I don't care if you don't watch the show, but turn your TVs to Scifi for the finale. Let the show go out with a ratings BOOM... lol
Evan though they had said there might be movies down the road like Startrek did.

The shortest amount of time to pass as a reaction of the human mind, that has been measured, was the time it took the cab driver behind you to honk when the light turned green in New York City During rush hour. The time measured was 8 10,000th of a second. It is a number too.... oooooohhh... lol SO I think we got you beat on the horn thing, but I agree that Jersey is a nightmare to drive in. If you can drive in Manhattan than every where else becomes a joke and every other driver becomes a moron... tee hee

If you are listening to this podcast and hear spoilers you need Lostasil... lol

Sorry guys, I have been real busy.
5am - 9am Babysit my niece.
10am - 5pm I have an internship (illustrator) no computers in my room
6pm - 11pm School
12am - 5 am Sleep
So I really just don't have time to do it, hell I should be asleep now, but I had to at least hear the podcast.
I will give it my best shot for this week.
Sorry again.

DeDJeZTeR

DeDJeZTeR said...

oh and because of my busy schedule I still haven't finished Watership down. At this rate I may have to watch the movie. I donloaded it just in case.
C-ya

tall guy said...

I wish Dave would let go of the whole Danelle Is An Other theory. In three seasons we've seen not one shed of evidence that Danelle has told anything but the truth, concerning her backstory.

tall guy said...

"Shed of evidence."

Quite an amusing image.

tall guy said...

I've a new Lost illustration up at my blog. This one features Micheal.

All together now.

WAAAAALLLTTTT!

memphish said...

Ded, tough schedule. I hope the internship is good at least.

As for Sayid, he said he was using part of the plane, therefore it's titanium, therefore it didn't get pulled to the magnetic force of the Island like iron filings was my point. Rather the pulse screwed with the workings of the plane like in Oceans 11, the remake.

And I guess that's why the transceiver didn't work too right? It would have been messed up by an EMP.

Amused2behere, I like your soapbox statement. Good job, and I agree. And it's not just 21st centurians who don't get sacrifice -- that was essentially what Carol Burnett watching Christian Shephard was saying to young Jack when he stood up for his friend.

The Bible tells us that "the good shepherd would lay down his life for his sheep," and "no greater love is there than a man giving up his life for his friends." (Memphish paraphrase)

That makes me go back to the thought that Future Jack did not do that, but rather sacrificed his friends to get himself and Kate off the Island and can't live with that guilt. That's also why I think it's Michael in the coffin because he sacrificed his friends, Ana, Libby, Jack, Kate, Saywer and Hurley for escape for himself and Waaaaallllltttt!

Good picture Tall Guy. I voted for your shirt too.

memphish said...

My LOST QOTD: What's your Vincent theory? Demon dog of doom? Luckiest lab alive? Smokey?

And keep thinking of modern tragedies. And teachers out there, what is the point of tragedy as a genre? To make us feel lucky? To show how that fatal flaw can bring down any of us? High school is many, many years in the past and I don't remember.

memphish said...

Mabye this is what's powering the Island.

Passafist said...
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Passafist said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
memphish said...

David, don't get personal. Tall Guy didn't say Dave was a jerk, he's just asking for a defense of the theory.

Passafist said...

Oh!! I thought he was talking about me!!! Oops!!!

martysbaybay said...

Merry Christmas......Happy New Year.......Is it February yet? *Sigh*

Memphish.....
If anything Vincent seems to be Smokey's opposite.
Smokey is the black dog, the bad dog, self appointed judge, jury and executioner.
Vincent is the white dog, the good dog, guide, helper, and watcher for lack of a better word.
I know this doesn't explain everything about either one of them but, to me smokey is evil and vincent is good.

memphish said...

Nice Martysbaby. I like that idea.

2costa said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3LFXMY_wcU

this perspective of the crash is very interesting maybe the rossetta stone of the whole show?

2costa said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-92e5LizfU

has anyone seen this clip before its great

maven said...

Another good question, Memphish. I kinda agree with Martysbaybay that Vincent (being a yellow lab...which is perceived as white) is the good guy versue Smokey (being black) is the bad guy. Vincent seems to always lead our Losties in the right direction, being a helping hand. Or else he IS just one lucky dog! That island must be dog heaven for him!

Thanks for those youtube links, 2costa. Maybe that's what Smokey is really after...true love!

FYSB said...

That's a really good connection, martysbaby. It does continue along the white/black, light/dark theme.

Maven, I chuckled at your "helping hand" response...didn't Vincent show up with Roger Workman's arm?

maven said...

FSYB: I guess that's the ultimate in helping hands! LOL

CattyGirl said...

Good afternoon all. I haven't really caught up on all comments, but thought I'd drop in to say hello. I still have to hear the latest podcast and hope I can make another live one.

Watched the 4400 and almost missed the ending. Why does USA do that? Lucky that I recorded the Dead Zone so I could see the end of the 4400.

As for tragedies, I enjoy them which is kind of weird I guess. I have a couple movies that I refer to as tragic, but I'm not sure if my definition of a 'tragedy' is correct... hmmm.. Here is my list:
Star Wars Episode 3 - Anakin was mislead and turned to the dark side. I think his story is tragic.
Harry Potter - if he dies in the last book, I think it is heart breaking, but he may die defeating Voldemorte.
'Immortal Beloved' and 'Romeo and Juliet'

CattyGirl said...

movies/books I should have written...

ib4uc said...

Hey Losties. Just read this on Ask Ausiello...

Question: Any Lost scoop yet?— Susan
Ausiello: How 'bout a Lost tip instead: If you haven't already done so, get thee a ticket to next month's San Diego Comic-Con. And quick. At the Promax convention last week, Team Darlton announced that they will be breaking radio silence about the Season 4 finale at the annual geekfest. "At Comic-Con we will for the first time discuss the events of the finale," Carlton Cuse said. To tide us over until then, Cuse offered this ambiguous tease: "Lost is like a mosaic, and there are 48 tiles left to go in the mosaic. And up until this season, you saw the present island, and you saw the past. And now you’ve seen the future. So when all the tiles are in place, the picture of Lost will be complete." (I warned ya it was ambiguous.) Damon Lindelof chimed in, "The fact that people are saying, 'What is the show going to be next year?' is really exciting for us. People are going, 'Are there going to be flashbacks? Flash forwards? Is it going to be [set] off the island? On the island? Where in time will it be?'" Answers are (hopefully) coming at Comic-Con! Speaking of which, are we all gonna meet up at the Corvette Diner this year or what? Onion rings are on me!


Is anyone going?

Lisa said...

Hi All-
I so thought it was the 3rd Weds Book Club... ah well, I stopped in expecting to get Watership Down, and stumbled upon tragedy.... so while I'm here...

Memphis and Amused- I LOVE your soapbox rantings and questions. I'm in the camp that thought that Charlie's sacrifice was noble- and it is cleaer he was at peace with his decision. Which is why then, I can entertain a theory that Jack acted selfishly in the rescue... because Jack is NOT at peace (a theory I wasn't even ready to entertain before this drive-by, so thanks).

Expanding on that....wow, thought provoking questions.... from Charlie to Private Ryan to the ultimate and loving sacrifice of Christ on the Cross...true heroes (let alone Saviors).... how many of us, even though we believe that Charlie is noble and did the right thing... could do it themselves? Wow...

Re: Tragedy... well, my take on them has always been the fatal flaw angle... to examine morals, consequences of actions, challenge our views and drive home the point that life has no guarentees or guardrails (sorry for trite phrase)- even the "hero" has no guarentee that his sacrifice will be of value to anyone- but he does it anyway because he is the hero (flaw? or great strength? one in the same sometimes).

Well, so much for Fiver and Hazel... that'll teach me not to check my facts! But it was an enjoyable stop in! ;-)

capcom said...

Hi All,

If I may reply to the previous QOTD quickly, Amused, I know what you mean! I think that is a reason why the world has not seen many great literary works like those that were written in the 19th and 20th centuries. Yes, there is good work done now, not to disparage any good contemporary writers. But in terms of eloquently documenting the travails of the human condition (and the often unhappy endings of the struggle for survival), we don't really have many Steinbecks around at the moment. Maybe modern civilization is so complacent by being so affluent overall, that now people cannot easily empathize with stories about the suffering of the have-nots in the world? Not everyone is like this of course, I just mean overall. Back before total consumerism was a way of life, and people had to make and do just about everything themselves, it was easier to relate to the strife of existance for ourselves and our fellow man.

And what is the meaning of writing and reading tragedies, even as far back as Homer's? I think it is to learn from other peoples' mistakes....or, to learn from the path of someone else's story, so as to gain knowledge in making better choices in our own life-story. Stories like The Grapes of Wrath, are good to experience so that we can be reminded of appreciating the lives that we have. :-)

I agree Ded about Stargate! I am a new viewer, catching up and looking forward to watching the finale this week. For some reason the show never clicked with me until recently. Maybe I was too busy watching other things on at the same time and then just didn't bother to catch up sooner.

"One-season-wonder", that good! Some poor shows this season seemed to be half-season-wonders! Right Dennis? :o)

As for today's QOTD, I think that my brain has chosen to not think too hard about Vincent, because of all the other tangents that my brain has insisted on running off on with this show. Until TPTB start giving more than super-subtle (and few and far between) hints that Vincent is more than what meets the eyes, I'm just keeping his profile file under a "Good Lassie-type Doggie" categorization. :o) I got burned by TLE, and really got into the Verizon retriever website, and then it was all a bunch of nuttin', and I wanted to learn more about the doggies! But I'm interested in what someone else might have interpreted about him that I have not caught yet! BTW, have we ever heard him bark? I can't remember. If not, maybe his muteness means that he is not "just" a dog?

capcom said...

Whew, sorry about the long post! You all are so interesting, it's hard to not want to "talk" about, and to, your comments! :-X

capcom said...

Good point Lisa, about the reason for Jack's not being at peace via his "sacrifices"!

Tommy, over on his Shangri-La blog, mentions the similarity between the real reason why the main character in Lost Horizon helped his friend get back to civilization (even when he himself actually wanted to stay in Shangri-La), and the reasons why Jack helps people. It's possibly more about satisfying their own need to help, than really helping the person. Kind of like, "Helping, it's what I do." And neither Conway or Jack really wants to be called or considered a hero, even thought they have this compulsive urge to always play one. That's a far cry from Charlie's noble decision to give up his life for Claire and Aaron, as you point out.

Lisa said...

Well, it also brings back the man of science, man of faith debate. Charlie has no assurances other than Des's vision that Claire and Aaron would be alright, contingent upon, not the yellow switch... but his own death. Jack has been a steady resource, altruistic even, gave his blood in the hopes of saving Boone, etc... most of his actions were thought out with a reasonable "here in this lifetime" chance at success and survival.

Charlie only had faith to go on... and faith in a potentially dubious source (I like Des and all... but still).... here's another scenario where the consequences of the action will ultimately show whether, in tangible terms, it was worth his sacrifice or not. To Charlie, however, who died for love and hope at the end of a life wrought with poor choices and heartache... I say he won no matter what the result, even at the cost of his life. I only do hope that list turns up for Liam and Claire... tragic, romantic...yes..... right? In my book, yes, but I can respect that may be a matter of perspective!

capcom said...

Agreed. And most every way you look at it, it pulls at the heart to see someone give up his life for his new little family. ::sniff::

Lisa said...

Tissue for you.... (I sobbed like a baby, but I do that often... I think its cleansing... but I'm really a sap!)
Have a great day all!

martysbaybay said...

2costa.....

"Smoke of Desire", *snicker*....good one.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Okay, I've been thinking of this tragedy thing, and I've thought of two modern examples. :) They're not on par with say, Wuthering Heights or the Oedipus trilogy or anything, but here goes:

1) Fight Club (and I'm talking about the movie, because I haven't read the book) - This story ends with the crazy side of the main character winning out. It's really about a descent into madness, where the character not only destroys himself, but a whole group of people around him, and eventually an entire city. Even as the main character realizes what's been happening, he is powerless to stop it. The end leaves us with the thought that even if he manages to control himself, he's now unleashed this army on the world, that he may not be able to reign back in.

2) The Prestige - Although the book and the movie have different endings, they both have the same general idea - two rivals are so locked in their competition with each other that they destroy the people around them and eventually end up killing each other (dircetly in the movie and indirectly in the book). They are each so consumed with the rivalry that they lose themselves in it.

I think this is the idea behind modern tragedy - the fear of becoming so out of control that you destroy yourself, and those around you through madness or obsession. And I think that says a lot about the modern world. Ancient tragedy, like Oedipus, has some of the same themes, but a lot of times, the character is driven to destruction through their own pride, greed or hubris. Now, it's more the idea of losing yourself in yourself.

I'm also interested in the idea of Deus ex Machina from Greek tragedy - most tragedies end with a god or goddess kind of smoothing things over. Rarely does the hero have to solve his or her own problem. It's interesting that this is no longer the case in modern literature.

capcom said...

Great points Melissa! Fight Club, wow. Yes, the end scene in the movie with the main character finally winning the fight with himself (for himself, I guess) and watching the whole town getting blown up (because of his prior actions) is a powerful contrast. And the Prestige movie really left me thinking, "Oh no, the guy that I wanted to be the good guy, was actually a bad guy. And the bad guy was, well, not as bad." :-) As well as shaking my head at the extent that they allowed their obsessions to advance and destroy.

Your point about Deus ex Machina in Greek stories sure applies to the movie Clash of the Titans! Heheh. I wish that Zeus could have picked me up in some of the bad parts of my life and set me down some place more desirable! :o)

capcom said...

P.S., I also like the comments that you made too Cattygirl.

Amused2bHere said...

Evening, all. Glad to see the discussion continuing.

Ded, I'm glad you stopped by, even though it cut into your sleep time. We miss you, but we understand Real Life sometimes interferes...

Hey Melissa, let us know about the live podcast. If it's Wed at 7pm I can make it this time. Anyway, that's my vote.

Great points about the modern tragedies. I haven't seen Fight Club (on the list...)but I definitely thought of The Prestige as fitting the category. (Funny how it is set in an older era. Could that story be told in today's time?) The book is different? Maybe I'll put it on my summer reading list...lol

Capcom, you don't have to apologize about long comments. Since TLE, most of us have been Fenris-ized when it comes to long comments. I look forward to reading what you all have to say!

Lisa, lol Sorry no Watership Down but I'm glad you joined in the tragedy discussion!

Final point: I can't get the Bunny Song from Buffy The Vampire Slayer's musical episode out of my head!
"It must be Bunnies!"

memphish said...

Morning LoCos! Today's LOST QOTD is about Danielle.

1. Do you believe her story?
2. Did she arrive on the Island pre- or post-Purge?

You can see the dialogue about her back story by clicking on my link to refresh your memory. You can also listen to what David and The Goog think by listening to their latest TLC podcast.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Good morning!

capcom and amused - I highly recommend reading The Prestige. There's a lot more to the story than what was in the movie, including an entire second story that takes place in present day.

And if you found the ending of the movie at all creepy - it is NOTHING compared to the end of the book. Yikes!

I'll shoot David an e-mail back about the podcast. David or Steve - if you see this first, which day works for you: Tuesday at say 6 p.m. or Wednesday at 7 p.m.? I can do either day.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Here's my random Lost question for the day:

The Tailies visit the abandoned Arrow station and find a trunk containing a Bible, a glass eye and the chunk of film from the Swan that discusses not using the computer for communication.

Since Mikhail is the only person we've seen so far who is missing an eye, I think it's safe to assume that the glass eye belongs to him.

We know that Radzinsky cut the frames out of the film. Kelvin tells Desmond that Radzinsky liked to edit the film.

We can also assume that since Radzinsky started the blast door map, that he used to go out and prowl around the island.

So.... how did these two items (the film and the glass eye) come to be in the same place? Did Radzinsky meet Mikhail at some point? If so, did Mikhail share this information with any of the others? Did they leave those items in the Arrow, or was it a third party?

Also interesting is that the missing section of film concerns communicating by computer - Mikhail's specialty.

I don't know why this popped into my head this morning, but there you go. :)

Ange said...

MELISSA_LOSSA! What fantastic thinking. That glass eye and film bit has always bugged me.

Yes, I think it is safe to assume that the eye was Mikhail's...but I LOVE how you have connected Mikhail and Radzinsky.

Maybe Radzinsky and Mikhail had it out...and the glass eye got damaged or knocked out in an altercation.

Maybe there was some sort of alliance between the two, and one of them left the items in the Arrow after their falling out.

I am going to have to rewatch or Lostpedia to see what the spliced pieces were....I am foggy on that and only running on 1 cup of coffee, but something to think about. Good one!

Melissa_Lossa said...

LOL - ange, I just had this mental image of Radinsky and Mikhail fighting. Radzinsky throws a punch and Mikhail's glass eye pops out and goes flying through the air! :)

The cut out part that was in the Arrow was the section that Locke and Eko watched that says not to use the computer for anything other than entering the code, and that it cannot be used for communication outside of the station - while Michael is seemingly using for just that reason.

What I could never figure out was why Radzinsky would want to hide this piece anyway. What would he gain from people using the computer for communication?

martysbaybay said...

Memphish.......

Excellent question. Loved the refresher of her background story. One quote in particular........
"What would have happened if we were rescued? I couldn't let that happen, I won't."
When Ben was going to the radio tower with Alex to try to stop Jack he and Alex stopped for a rest and Alex asked Ben why didn't he just let them go, he says "because I can't". To me that kind of gives the impression that he and Danielle may be on the same page.
Problem is Ben has proven himself to be a liar time and again and Danielle has always seemed a little, well, nuts.

Look forward to your question of the day every day. Thanks so much for doing them.

ib4uc said...

Good morning all.

Regarding the glass eye and it being Mikhail's -- when we saw him without his patch (yuck) there wasn't a socket, it looked like it was covered with skin. I don't know, but after a period of time without a glass eye in place, would your eyelid attach itself and form a covering?

But I do like the idea that Mikhail and Radzinsky are somehow connected. Just something else to ponder.

Michael using the computer to communicate with Walt -- I guess I thought he was daydreaming/hallucinating it all. He was a very troubled man at that time.

memphish... I don't know what to think about Danielle. As much as I would like to think she is telling the truth, we just haven't seen enough either way. But, yeah, she is kinda nuts and her "life on the island story" seems made up. I think she was original Dharma but since she was Alex's mother, she was spared and brainwashed with an alternate life story.

memphish said...

Melissa_Lossa, nice question.

This all goes to timeline and who's who and I can't decide where I come down on this, but here's a go. I don't think Mikhail came to the Island until after the Purge. I'm going to say that when he arrived on Island he had the glass eye, but it kept popping out or wouldn't face forward and since there were no eye doctors on the Island Mikhail decided to sew his own eyehole shut and left the eye in the Arrow one day, perhaps as a prank.

I think Radzinsky and Kelvin on the other hand are post-Purge Dharma. Someone had to keep pushing the button when everyone was gassed and I don't think it was Ben's people. I think Radzinsky has been there since the day of the Purge and that Kelvin was brought in in 1992 or 93 with all the guns to help fend off the Hostiles.

I think Radzinsky edited out the communicating stuff for psychological reasons, namely once you tell someone they can't do stuff, then they want to do it. If they don't think about using the computer for anything other entering the numbers, they won't try to communicate with it. I think it can be used for communication, even with the mainland, but you have to know the correct sequence to enter (like 7-7 or the sequence to win the chess game) in order to begin that communicating. Radzinsky knew it which was how he ended up with Kelvin and kept getting food, but Kelvin and Desmond did not know the sequence.

As for the film in the Bible in the Arrow and the Map, I think years in the Hatch drove Radzinsky nuts, so he pulled a con on Kelvin like Kelvin did on Desmond saying there was a quarantine and suiting up in order to roam the Island and explore it. (Kelvin's use of the term Hostiles also adds to this idea that Kelvin and Radzinsky are real Dharam.) Radzinsky left the film in the hollowed out Bible in The Arrow because it was the furthest from The Swan so any Swan-mates would be unlikely to find it there.

memphish said...

Martysbaby, thanks for the thanks. It's nice to feel appreciated.

IB4UC, I've thought Danielle's story could be Room 23 induced as well. 16 years with no contact with the Others other than Whispers just doesn't add up. For those of you who watch Heroes, I think Danielle may be like Mrs. Bennett, mind-wiped once too often by the Haitian.

Melissa_Lossa said...

ib4uc - My thought was that if Mikhail lost his glass eye for some reason, he might just sew the eye shut. We haven't seen any indication that Mikhail has ever left the island, and having a lose eyelid with no eye is just gross. :) As far as Michael and the computer goes, I always assumed that he WAS communicating with someone on the island, just not Walt. Actually, it was probably Mikhail, with all of his computers - I don't recal seeing any computers in Othertown, or in the Hydra.

Memphish - I could agree that Radzinsky cut out the part about communications to keep anyone else from getting the idea to use it for that purpose. Could that maybe be because he'd already tried it himself? If the Swan was supposed to be a secret from the Others, that could be why Radzinsky went to such lengths to remove the film.

To me, it seems too coincidental that both Mikhail and Radzinsky would deposit those two items in the exact same place without knowing about each other. Of course, that could be answered if a third party found the eye and the film elsewhere, and then brough them to the Arrow later. But again - why?

Melissa_Lossa said...

Two other things:

I'm putting together a list of discussion points on Watership Down for next week's podcast. If anyone has a question that they would like to add, let me know.

And, is anyone else still watching Traveler? Because it is becoming quite the fantastic little show. I love it more every week!

Sayid'sgirl said...

Memphish
First of all I think she’s pre purge only because she’s been there longer than Mikhail and he went through the purge.
When she said she couldn’t let that happen I always assumed she was afraid that if they were rescued that her party would infect more people. When she said they changed course to investigate the transmission I assumed she wasn’t part of Dharma.
Now I'm not sure she is a survivor of the purge or an other. When she Sayid, Kate, and Locke were bringing Mikhail back she kept interupting him when he was talking as if she was trying to stop him from telling to much. So that makes it seem like she knows Mikhail and what's going on. Perhaps she ran across him and he told her everything (he seemed pretty chatty with Sayid) or she is an other. Not sure.

melissa_lossa
I have always wondered about the the things found in the trunk in the Arrow.Why were such strange things in it. When we first see Mikhail and he's missing an eye I thought he was Radzinsky. But we found out the wasn't so. It is interesting that Radzinsky like to do edits. Maybe he found out that you could communcate with the outside world through the computer and that's why he cut that part out hoping his replacement would use the computer in that way. Or maybe he tried it and it didn't work. Maybe he did that right before he killed himself. Maybe Mikhail lost his eye maybe it was taken I don't know but I can't see leaving it in a trunk. Why would he do that. It's possible they ran into each other but I couldn't guess what happened if they did. This is a very good question and really hard to answer. I'd like to know the answer though. Hope TPTB tells us.

Sayid'sgirl said...

Well it looks like by the time I wrote my book of a post alot of people have already said alot of I said. Oh and Memphish your question was a good one too I didn't mean to leave that out.
melissa_lossa
Yes I'm watching Traveler and I think it's getting better with each episode. It's not exactly what I expected it to be. I like it when they suprpise me. The past couple of episodes have been "We need to watch that again" moments or me.

Lisa said...

Melissa Lossa-
RE: Fight club (one of my faves) --- Great comparisons, would have never thought about Fight Club in that manner. Brings up the whole “be careful what you wish for” scenario too about Jack, the rescue, what kind of life would be better… destruction of beauty (remember the blonde guy)….multiple personalities…. etc… sigh…. so many thoughts, so little time….

You are also right- in mythology we’re left with some resolution, consequence and intervention from some outside source which is lacking with the modern spin.

Again… to your Arrow questions… I was on Humphrys.com the other day… do you think there’s any truth to the theory that whoever spliced the films (Des says Radzinsky did some editing)… mixed the films for each station? Ex. put some of the flame in with the swan, etc? I like you theory that Mikhail and Radzinsky might have collaborated. Memphish I like the psychological spin on why.

Re: Danielle- I actually believe that she was on a boat that got shipwrecked and that she killed her team. Now, as for her position on rescue…. I have a similar theory to Sayid’s girl re; her killing her team for the sake of rescue. I think that maybe (1) the sickness was visible to a potential rescuer- and therefore, if any member of the team appeared to be infected, NO member of the team would be rescued. or (2) The sickness was mental- causing her team to embrace the island and begin to avoid/deter rescue for the sake of Jacob/the island…so, a non-sick Danielle, had to eliminate them in order to potentially enable rescue for her and Alex. Either that, or it was so contagious, she eliminated them before she could get sick.

Sayid'sgirl said...

lisa
That's a good thought I never considered, that Danielle killed them before she could get sick.

Lisa said...

Mama Bear and her cub... no matter which theory you go with. She'd have done anything to protect Alex--- maybe even give her up to Ben willingly if she thought it would be the only way to preserve her. Though, that's potentailly all too simplistic a theory....

Melissa_Lossa said...

sayid's girl - I agree about Traveler. I keeps getting better and more complex. Last night, when Will escaped from the hotel, only to discover that it was a set, I did a real double take - never saw that coming!

lisa - that's interesting, I've never heard speculation that the films could be from multiple stations. Wow! That's a whole new angle to consider.

I also like your ideas about the sickness. Here's something to consider - if the sickness made Danielle's crew embrace the island and try to thwart any rescue/escape, is Locke also "infected"? If so, what has he come into contact with that the other Losties haven't?

Lisa said...

Hmmm... Locke infected... good idea.

Yeah, the splicing between multiple stations theory comes from the Easter Eggs in season 2 section, its a picture from parts of the orientation films found. There are some minimal differences in Candle/Wickmunds clothing, background etc...leaving the question, prop error, or something we're supposed to notice? It also would explain why he used different names... the films were never supposed to cross paths...I just read it yesterday.

Lisa said...

PS. NOT my idea re: splicing... i read it proposed there... (don't want to take undue credit, I'm just the messenger!)

memphish said...

Lisa, I think I've heard TPTB say that the differences in the 2 parts of the Swan film are unintentional continuity failures, but I like the conspiracy theory of the splicing idea better.

The sickness is definitely something I want to know more about. There was a lot of speculation pre-Season 3 that it would raise its head among the LOSTies because they would have been on Island as long as Danielle's team when she killed them. But, no mention in Season 3 unless you count some deleted dialogue mentioned by Michael Emerson in his Comic News Insider interview. (As much as I've been touting that thing, you'd think I was getting a kickback, but no.)

What Danielle says about the sickness and rescue leads you to think it's something physical and obvious, but I've oftened wondered if it wasn't Danielle who is the one's sick -- in the head. Maybe the Island/Jacob/Smokey/Ben planted the notion in her fertile brain. Maybe it was pre-partem stress? I just hope we find out sometime.

As for the idea that she'd do anything to protect Alex, I thought this year we'd find out that Ben had convinced Danielle to give Alex to them and made her think it was her idea, like Locke and the sub. But that never panned out either.

FYSB said...

I've been pondering the question on modern tragedies. I looked up "tragedy" on Wikipedia and found this description:

In a figurative sense a tragedy (from Classical Greek τραγωδία, "song for the goat", see below) is any event with a sad and unfortunate outcome, but the term also applies specifically in Western culture to a form of drama defined by Aristotle characterized by seriousness and dignity and involving a great person who experiences a reversal of fortune (Peripeteia). (Aristotle's definition can include a change of fortune from bad to good as in the Eumenides, but he says that the change from good to bad as in Oedipus Rex is preferable because this effects pity and fear within an audience.) According to Aristotle, "The structure of the best tragedy should be one that represents for that is peculiar to this form of art."[1] This reversal of fortune must be caused by the tragic hero's hamartia, which is often mistranslated as a character flaw, but is more correctly translated as a mistake (since the original Greek etymology traces back to hamartanein which is a sporting term which refers to an archer or spear-thrower missing his target)[2]. According to Aristotle, "The change to bad fortune which he undergoes in not due to any moral defect or flaw, but a mistake of some kind."[3] It is also a misconception that this reversal can be brought about by a higher power (e.g. the law, the gods, fate, or society), but if a character’s downfall is brought about by an external cause Aristotle describes this as a "misadventure" and not a tragedy.[4]

I thought the literal translation of the word "song for the goat" especially appropriate given the latest incarnation of Rachel Blake.

After reading that definition, I'm not sure this falls under the umbrella of tragedy, but has anyone read "A Prayer for Owen Meany"?

Ange said...

lisa said...She'd have done anything to protect Alex--- maybe even give her up to Ben willingly if she thought it would be the only way to preserve her. Though, that's potentailly all too simplistic a theory....

I'm not sure there's such a thing as too simplistic. Something on Lost has to be simplistic doesn't it?

For the record, I agree with this theory. I even posted it earlier on Memphish's blog :D. I just get a feeling that Danielle isn't all she says she is, and Mama bear might have found some way to get her baby back at some point in 16 years...unless maybe she was given up voluntarily-ish.

memphish said...

FYSB, I read that book about 18 years ago, but I remember that like Locke Owen Meany thought he was immaculately conceived.

Thanks for the work on tragedy. I always thought Shakespearan type tragedies did involved some sort of moral defect or flaw like MacBeth's inability to stand up to his wife rather than mere mistake. I guess if it's just a mistake, it's even more tragic. Maybe it's the case that character flaws exacerbate the mistake like Oedipus' reaction to his mistake or Hamlet after he kills Polonius.

FYSB said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
TheBookPolice said...

Just a little cutesy post from a very, very busy guy (me):

Anyone here like Uglydolls?

memphish said...

TGIF LoCos! I hope everyone is planning a fun weekend.

Today's LOST QOTD is one that's really been bothering me since "Expose" aired. Why were people who were together on the plane separated when the plane crashed? Mere dramatic license or is there something more?

Sayid'sgirl said...

I never really never thought about it. I just assumed it was like any accident. Things get thrown in different directions like the sheriff's case ending up in the water and he and Kate ending up in separate places than the case. If you take a box full of stuff and throw it not everything is going to land in the same place. Like when me son got hit by a car when he was eight his bike landed ten feet from him and his shoe and sock landed farther from that. So I never thought it odd that people and things ended up in different places.

FYSB said...

Ok, LoCo...here's my tinfoil hat theory of the day....

What if Alex is the daughter of Danielle and Jacob?

I have nothing to back this up other than the fact that this is the only combo I haven't speculated about.

maven said...

Morning whom ever is here! Hope you've got a weekend planned!

Memphish: Agree with Sayid's girl that how things and people get separated after a plane crash is most likely just how things happen...crazy and random and unexplainable.

FYSB: Your tinfoil theory is pretty eerie! I've always been in the camp that believes Danielle's original story (no matter how weird is was). She really was on a scientific expedition, they were drawn to the island by the transmission of the numbers, she was already pregnant by her lover, Robert, before crashing on the island, her fellow scientists caught a sickness and died. Now she does get a little bonkers for the next 16 years, and she must know more than she tells.

capcom said...

Too funny TBP!!! :o)

experimentalfilm! said...

aayyyy sexies .

im missing lost pretty badly . but i need some advice about something else !

i get to choose a summer reading book this year .. what should it be ?? it should be challening but not impossible .. on the order of "lord of the flies", but not "war and peace ."

anything ???

capcom said...

Hi EF! And Locos!

EF, why don't you pick something from the Lost booklist? There is plenty to chose from there, long and short. And since they are referenced in, and pertain somewhat to Lost, it might help with the Lost-jones. :o) You might also gain some insight on Lost mythos as well.

Amused2bHere said...

Great idea, Capcom. There's plenty there to choose from, like you said. From Watership Down to Brief History of Time, you can pick your own length depth and pace.

Sara, let us know where you land!

experimentalfilm! said...

muchos gracias ! im thinking watership down, soon as i find out what its about lol .. ill look here when you guys begin discussions to see if it catches my interest .

ah, i love how lost has taken over my life . <3

capcom said...

Ditto EF! :o)

Amused2bHere said...

Watership Down...think of it as Lost but with Rabbits instead of people.

Piqued your interest?

Amused2bHere said...

Capcom, your new avi is funny!

martysbaybay said...

Capcom.......

Love the avitar. It sums things up quite nicely.

maven said...

Hey, all: Agree with you all that Sara (EF) should read Watership Down! A lot of LOST is in it! Can't wait until we start the discussion this coming Wed (or is it Tues on talkshoe?).

Always love when you guys play around with your avatars!

Passafist said...

Talkcast Name: The Lost Community Podcast
Host: Passafistwastaken - passafistwastaken@gmail.com
Next episode: Book Club Episode 1 - The Lost Community Podcast, Tue, June 26, 2007 06:00 PM EDT
Join host David A Dein and poster Melissa_Lossa and the rest of The Lost Community for the first episode of The Lost Community Book Club. This Month we Will Be Discussing Watership Down. For more information on The Lost Community Book Club Visit Thelostcom...
Phone number: (724) 444-7444
Talkcast ID: 24061
PIN: The phone number or 10-digit PIN you signed up with

Other future episodes: Future episodes not scheduled

Here's the info. To join in (in the chat oir by phone) you MUST download Talkshoe and set-up a talkshoe account. Talkshoe chat room is free, but local rate apply if you use a phone.

memphish said...

David, can you explain a little more how Talk Shoe works. If I call in can I hear everything and when you unmute me I can talk too, or do I need to be on both my computer and my phone at the same time? If I just want to be on my computer, can I only comment in the chat room, or is there a way to connect and talk too? If I'm on my computer can I listen without chatting or talking? Thanks.

Thrasher76 said...

New Icon!! Not sure if it will work as it is supposed to...

Thanks for all the well wishes!!

Thrasher76 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Thrasher76 said...

Now it should work....

Passafist said...

Memphish....

To answer your questions?
If I call in can I hear everything and when you unmute me I can talk too, or do I need to be on both my computer and my phone at the same time?
Talkshoe has three distinct interfaces...

1. The Chat Room - This is where you can type your thoughts for the whole group to see in real time. This chat room needs to be downloaded at Talkshoe.com.
This interface is what I the host also looks at to gudie the discussion. I can see everyone in the chat room and I can also see the cue of persons who want to talk. This room also includes the most important function, the push to talk button. This button allows the host to control who wants to speak.

2. The Phone Interface- This is where you dial in so you can take part in the audio portion of the show. If you dial in a handy icon shows up on the screen that shows that you can be muted and un-mutted, as a participant you can click the push to talk button to enter the cue and discuss the issue. You also need to set up a talkshoe account because you need a unique pin number to enter the phone chat portion of the program.

These two functions require a talkshoe account. It's free. The phone portion requires a long distance phone carrier or a VIOP like Skype or Gizmo Project.

3. The third interface is the live stream. This means you can listen in live at talkshoe.com. You cannot take part in the conversation but you may listen in to it.

So if you want to to listen to the program live streaming is possible. If you want to take part using only your computer you need a broadband connection and some kind of VIOP (Skype, Vonage.. etc.), and some headphones and a microphone, if you just want to chat all you need to do is download the chat room server. You can find more out at talkshoe they have a better faq to help you. The interface is really easy and a lot of fun. The program will also be stored for download later if you miss it.

memphish said...

Thanks David.

capcom said...

Happy One Week Closer To Season 4 LoCos!!!!!

Thanks about the new avi. I also started a new Lost-ish blog for the first time ever too. I figured that I should use this time off from the show to learn some new things. Mostly inspired by Memphish's new blog, and also inspired by everyone here since the TLE days. I have learned so much from you guys, wow! Who says that you can't teach an old retired doggie new trix?! :o)

Passafist, you have also taught us a lot of new things and I think that you guys are on your way to having your own radio show! Online programs sure make it easy for a person to do that if they want to, wow. And Dennis you teach us new things too, and soon I’m going to have to try your link-maker site.

Can't wait to see and hear what people say about the first book. I'm still catching up on the $200 of books that I bought for retirement, so I didn't start the bookclub reading, but if you guys have too much fun and I get jealous, I may have to buy some more new books and catch up with you all. :-)

Sweet avi, Thrasher. Gettin' short!

maven said...

Thanks for the great explanation, Passafist! Looking forward to Tuesday (3pm PST!).

Checked out your new blog, Capcom! Hope you'll join in the TLC Book Club discussions...I've been getting most of the books thru the library.

Amused2bHere said...

Ah, the public Library. What a marvel of our society! And a very underused gem it is...

Happy Sunday, all. I hope you all can take it as a day of rest for your body and soul. (If not, well, there's always Monday...)

capcom said...

Thanks Maven! And that's true Amused, I could save some money by going to the library, I live barely a mile from the one here in Knox.

maven said...

Looks like the FARG is back on! It starts on this page over at Lost-TV forum. Yea! Something to check on everyday!

maven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
capcom said...

What the heck?! Well, here we go a-FARG-ing again, heheh. I'll watch!

2costa said...

can u use a flickr url for your avitar?

takes a village said...

I'm ready for the Summer,Fall, and Winter; kicking back with some really good books.
Have a great week everyone.

2costa said...

?

2costa said...

whats the trick for an avitar

2costa said...

anyone? your avitar is the pic on your blogger profile right?

takes a village said...

2 costa;
go to blogger help,blogger basics,profiles,how to post a photo.
I hope someone else gives you the short version.

takes a village said...

yes

capcom said...

2costa, I tried my first avi by finding a avi pic from one of the Lost forum sites that posts good ones. Then, I just followed the instructions on how to imbed one on the Blogger profile. Once that worked (after many dumb tries and failures) I started making my own pics and putting them on a Myspace page (after many dumb tries and failures), and then I transferred them to the Blogger profile from there. I got lucky and it finally worked, and I was trying it totally blind with no previous experience. There must be an easier way, but I didn't stumble upon it yet. :-B

Anymore technical detail than that, and I am of no help, sorry. Good luck!

2costa said...

i think i figured it out

2costa said...

i worked on this south park style mikhail for at least an hour

2costa said...

i was inspired by your dharmatweak capcom

2costa said...

maybe it wasnt tweak the black and white threw me off

takes a village said...

looks good 2costa,
capcom,
It took me a lot of tries to get my avitar working.With a little practice,us Loco's can do almost anything.

2costa said...

thanx t.a.v. . Did you illustrate your avitar? its harder to get the adult south park style than the kids

capcom said...

Nice Patchy 2costa!!!! Well done. I make my South Park people on this site, which I then copy and save to a file to manipulate for the avi:

http://www.sp-studio.de/

They just put a bunch more items to choose from to make the personalized cartoons. Someone last summer made up an entire Lost cast with this site, and it was hilarious. Everyone from Seasons 1 & 2. That site's not up anymore.

2costa said...

i used to use that site too. i have advanced illustration programs, but just ordinary paint lends itself to the south park style.

2costa said...

i just downloaded this little app that maps real faces into .obj files to use as poser heads, if i get bored maybe ill make some fanfiction stills

takes a village said...

2costa,
My avi is actually a picture of a painting in my living room.
One day I realized that it looks alot like Lost Island,so I captured it.
I do have an Avi that I illustrated,but I'm waiting till season 4 to try it out.

capcom said...

You're right 2costa, Paint is great for getting that special primitive South Park paper-cut-out look!!! :o)

That sounds like a fun site to play with for transforming images.

Administrator said...

Happy Lost Community Book Club week everyone! I think I'll post Passafist's announcement from this thread (6/24/2007 05:52:00 AM) on the front page sometime early tomorrow. We'll probably just add the podcast to that post so we can keep the Waterhip Down discussions all in one place.

Dennis, you on board with this plan?

memphish said...

Good morning LoCos! I'm looking forward to talking about Watership Down this week.

Admin, if you post the podcast to a pre-existing thread will it still download automatically in iTunes? I think we've had issues with that in the past.

Everyone be sure and check out Capcom's Lost, the latest LoCo blog that I'm aware of at least.

And my LOST QOTD is about the crash and the conspiracy theories surrounding the pilot and Cindy. Check it out and weigh in.

memphish said...

There's a fantastic post on Sledgeweb about Jack and his journey.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Good morning! Looks like I'll have to check out the FARG again. :) I'm surprised that it's back so soon!

I'm so nervous about the podcast tomorrow! It'll be my first one. :)

Amused2bHere said...

G'morning all!

One more day to TLC podcast. I've got to remember it's on Tuesday, not Wednesday...I'd make a mental note but I always seem to misplace those...

maven said...

Melissa_lossa: I think we're all a bit nervous about tomorrow's podcast! LOL

Melissa_Lossa said...

Glad to hear that I'm not alone, then! :)

2costa said...

Someone i forget who had the notion that Jacob was the actor that played walt on the deadzone, and i might add they said this weeks ago. Then they pointed out that it may be true, as evidenced by the fact walt was killed off of dead zone last week. I'll admit that the funky bump in jacobs nose looks like sherrif walts nose. Another thing i though was strange was sherrif walt was abnormally tan on the dead zone premier, maybe a sign of filming in Hawaii??? I looked back at the picks and the profile of jacob does look like sherrif walt but the eye closeup doesnt really. I cant see why that actor would leave the steady dead zone paycheck if he didnt have another gig lined up. food for thought, but i think it was crazy that someone had the jacob sherrif walt theory well before the deadzone season premier. Jacob is definetly way balder than Bannerman, but that could be makeup.

2costa said...

i googled it and the walt bannerman jacob theory was capcoms

Passafist said...

Admin,

Steve and I will have the lost episode 3 podcast ready tomorrow morning as well. Should I hold off and post it later this week after the Watership Down discussion? or can I post it tomorrow morning.

Melissa_Lossa said...

2costa (and capcom) I could definitely see the resemblance! And you're right - Walt was oddly tan in the premiere. :) I do think though, that they shoot the Dead Zone a lot earlier than Lost. I think they shot the current season in the fall. I hope Sherriff Walt gets a new gig - I liked him on TDZ!

Speaking of TDZ and odd appearances - did anyone else think that Stillson looked as though he had aged about ten years since the last season? He looks terrible!

capcom said...

Don't worry Melissa, you'll do great in the podcast!

Good thinking 2costa, about Walter B's tan on TDZ! And it was supposed to be winter on the show, right? The reason I thought of that actor when I saw Jacob's profile, is that he was in that horrrrrible SciFi channel movie Grendel, and he played Beowulf. Jacob's prominent forehead just seemed to remind me of Walter B's in that movie. ((I've drawn a lot of profiles in my life, so I am just profile-detail sensitive I guess, haha)) But I also still think that Dennis might be on the right track too with comparisons of Jacob's and Dennis Hopper's profile, they are very similar as well! Hopper also has a funny nose-bump in about that same place too.

Should we start placing friendly bets? If we all lived near each other, we could bet the loser washing each other's cars for a month, or something like that. :o)

Melissa_Lossa said...

capcom - they are so many times that I've wished that we all lived closer to each other! Wouldn't it be fun to have a big party sometime? :)

And thanks for the vote of confidence! ;)

capcom said...

Amen to that Melissa! Woohoo!

2costa said...

my first thought was that it looked like dennis hopper, but i dont know if we will be that lucky. it would be a nice tie in to apocolypse now which has already been refferenced on lost a few times already, one of the major times for me was how sawyer was barefoot when he killed cooper, much like sheen killing kurtz. Hopper said something like " he's a brilliant and unforgiving man" about kurtz like ben said about jacob so the serendipity is there. I did some more investigating on the walt bannerman jacob angle and i did a comparison of the jacob eye with his and the eye shape was an exact match as where the eyebrows, but jacob had more of a unibrow. and jacob had black/brown eyes where as bannerman has greenish brown eyes.

2costa said...

hoppers eye doesnt look like the jacob eye but the profile is a dead ringer, have we ever come to a consensus of if jacobs head has a hood or wooly long hair?

2costa said...

hey sorry but did johnny, i mean john stop seeing the apocolypse when he touched stillson after the evil dude from weeds and walt died in last weeks episode?

2costa said...

i though winchester from mash or rev "you got a"Purdy"mouth"was the one that was gonna die...

Melissa_Lossa said...

2costa - I was REALLY worried that the whole armageddon story was over last week, but it looks like it's back next week. There was also a little article in TV Guide last week that said that Johnny will still be dealing with Stillson this season.

memphish said...

2Costa, Capcom, anyone else who's interested, I posted on the message board in the spoiler section a thread about the actor playing Jacob. It's a minor spoiler, so I put them there so that people can avoid them if they don't want to know.

capcom said...

Hey thanks Memphish, I'll read the two articles that you put in there tonight when the nephews go home.

maven said...

Thanks, Memphish. I had seen that earlier.

2costa said...

ya that would be really cheesy like the way that it seemed to be a differnt actor that was penny at first or the first glimpse of mikhail seemed like a differnt actor. Heres an idea lost producers cast the actor that is gonna play the part when you introduce the character!

2costa said...

oh off subject did anyone see the first two john from cincinattis i was luke warm on the first one but the second one sold me. Ed O'neil is awsome as the alzhiemers ex-cop uncle. The meadowlands was pretty good too

maven said...

Hey, 2costa: I've been watching John from Cincinatti and Meadowlands (nothing much on besides Big Love, Rescue Me). They're okay. The John character is pretty intriguing, but the other people don't seem that special. I had loved Deadwood, so I'm giving it a chance. Meadowland's premise is interesting (a little violent for me with that handyman guy and the son is just too weird for me). Kinda reminds me of The Prisoner. I'll keep at it thought!

capcom said...

Right 2costa, I guess TPTB might not know how far they will take a character at first, and then they catch on or someone gets a great idea for expanding the story around that character...then the original actor might not be available or good enough for the extended part. I'm sure glad that Dez didn't change after he came back from his lonnng trip around the Island!

I've been thinking (bad things) about the NikkiandPaulo "fiasco". I am kind of disappointed that TPTB wasted an entire show on them, just to get rid of them supposedly. Couldn't they just have quickly gotten shot in the gut like AnaL and Libby? Why waste all that precious airtime for an entire stand-alone (in my opinion) episode that didn't really have anything to do with the Island at all (as far as we know at this point). They could have spent that time telling us more important Island details! Ah well, spilled milk, I guess. Maybe the Lostaways will be bargaining with the freighter people and bribing them into recuing them with the dug-up diamonds!

I haven't seen those two shows yet, I'll have to check them out.

2costa said...

spoilerish for people that havent seen John from cinci...John is a good show. In the first episode a dude levitates and his smacked out son witnesses it. I think milch has a lot up his sleeve maven. i liked how al bundy was having that freakout in his apartment that impending doom was standing behind him, then the earthquake came and his nephew broke his neck, maybe it was some kind of savant precognition. Maven i liked how the grandkid was doing the neckthing like the bird after he and bundy brought him back to life and ironically broke his neck the next episode, then even more ironically the bird brought him back from his broken neck. The john character is definetly intriguing, why else is butchy not drug sick yet?

maven said...

Hey, Capcom and all: The FARG is getting interesting over at Lost-TV. Rachel Blake is making an appearance.

2costa said...

that burn something show on usa is gonna be like the prisoner too maven

2costa said...

fan fiction is so hard for me to get into, if it isn't canon for the show or the book you know. Even the marvel what if comics were hard for me to care about, comics seem to have no continuity anymore, they just let anyone come and rewrite the hero's origin...

Amused2bHere said...

2costa, I agree. That's why I'll always be a Curt Swan Superman fan, and my Spiderman loved Gwen Stacey first before MJ ever knew Peter Parker existed. Continuity is EVERYTHING.

I just keep thinking "parallel universe, another timeline in the multiverse..." when these new origins come out.

maven said...

FYI: Entertainment Weekly has the Top 100 and Elizabeth Mitchell was the only one from Lost that made it...#56!

Amused2bHere said...

thanks, Maven. Hmm, verrry interesting...

and I never got to say thanks for letting us know about the FARG. I've been browsing through it...reminds me a lot of TLE. So much of which was above my head, and so is this. But it's fun to pearl and just watch.

memphish said...

Good Watership Down Tuesday LoCos. I'm planning to participate in the podcast today, God willing and the creek don't rise. I too am nervous and can't decide if I'll call or just type in the chat room. I'm sure it will be fun.

Today's LOST QOTD comes from part 2 of the Pilot episode. Locke introduces Walt to backgammon and tells him there are 2 players, 2 sides, one light, one dark and for a long time I felt like there were only 2 sides in LOST, but following Jack's sat phone call, I'm not so sure anymore. So the question is how many sides are there and who's light and who's dark?

David A said...

Let me suggest you totally call in. Their will be no record of the live chat after the live recording so you can make lots of great points in the chat room but unless you actually get them recorded in the podcast, they will be lost to the internet.

memphish said...

Thanks for the advice David.

Melissa_Lossa said...

Please call in! I don't want to be all alone. :)

Dennis said...


NEW POST!!!!