The Season Finale hasn't even been over for 12 hours and you've already produced a record number of comments! This post is here to alleviate the lag of loading the comments page. Make sure you read up on the previous post to catch up with everyone's overnight observations, questions, and exclamations.
Thursday, May 24, 2007
THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS - SEASON 3, EPISODE 22 (POST 2)
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Here is the updated reading list for the 
487 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 487 Newer› Newest»I just remembered there's a book cited in that piece of crap Bad Twin some old mystery where the mystery is supposedly solved halfway through the book only to have the entire thing be undone and resolved, more brilliantly at the end. The hero of Bad Twin's mentor mentions it to him and his girlfriend is reading it on a plane. I'm guessing that type of thing is what TPTB will be going for now that we've seen one "answer."
memphish said...I just remembered there's a book cited in that piece of crap Bad Twin some old mystery where the mystery is supposedly solved halfway through the book
I took notes on Bad Twin, here are the ones I had listed. Honestly I can't remember if that is a complete list, and agreed on the crap bit! Any look familuar?
•Herman Melville’s Encantadas (enchanted islands with magic outposts offshore)
•Beowulf
•The Epic of Gilgamesh
•Eros and Thanatos (love and death)
•Odysseus
•Dante~ Divine Comedy (specifically purgatory)
•Hemingway
•Gatsby
•New Testament-The book of Luke
•Lord of the Flies
•Ivanhoe
•Sherlock Holmes
•Trent’s Last Case
•Turn of the Screw
•Shakespeare’s King Lear
•Confessions of Saint Augustine
I'm confused about this signal jamming business. If Bonnie and Greta were sent to TLG to prevent all communication to and from the island, why did Juliet say (in Greatest Hits), "Ben is using one of the DHARMA stations to block all of the signals off of the Island except for ours."
That would imply that communication is not being jammed entirely. Could anyone tell me what I'm missing?
And why are people so sure that it wasn't the Purpling that knocked out communications?
It's Trent's Last Case. Thanks Ange.
Here's the wiki for Trent's Last Case.
Here's a brief synopsis:
Not only does Trent fall in love with one of the primary suspects — usually considered a no-no — he also, after painstakingly collecting all the evidence, draws all the wrong conclusions.
Sounds like Jack.
Blueheron: I agree. It's a great theory that Ben used the purpling excuse to block communication through another means but it's only a theory. I'm still processing the implications of that, how much Ben hid from his people, and how much Mikhail knew. Is the underwater beacon really broken?
Which station was Juliet referring to? The Flame? She probably didn't know then that the station blocking signals was the same one Ben told her was flooded?
So let me try to figure this out. The Swan and its containment was preventing the Island from being discovered and was blocking Rousseau's transmission and made you sail in circles around the Island. Post-purpling, Juliet still thinks the circling would still occur and Ben doesn't disabuse her of the notion though he's upset they have a boat. Post-Purpling Tom and Mikhail think the comms to the mainland are down, but it could just be the case that Greta and Bonnie are blocking them. They are also blocking Rousseau's signal. Tom and Mikhail also think that post-Purpling the buoy doesn't work. Is this true or false? If it is only post-Purpling that Ben has had to take the extraordinary step of sending Bonnie and Greta to TLG, why did he want Locke to stop pushing the button? Was it because he didn't know about the failsafe? What would have happened if Desmond hadn't turned the key when the button wasn't pushed?
And people thought we wouldn't have enough stuff to talk about for 8 months.
Excellant season finale.
I know we are mostly thinking jacob=jack because Locke couldn't shoot jack, and jacob could be jack, but I think the real reason Locke didn't shoot jack is that they have a connection (both crashed on the island) and that they are not rescued yet and until or if that doesn't happen, Locke knows Jack is the leader and is supposed to be the leader of the Losties.
OK, I'm glad the signal jamming stuff is unclear to other folks than just me!
Memphish said: I'm pretty sure California has been on starting number 5 for a while now. Is that correct Maven?
Yep...I haven't seen any 6's! It looked like current 2007 LA to me. Although some have said that the Grant Ave. project isn't projected to be done until 2010 (conveniently when the show is supposed to end).
Admin said : People keep talking about how Jack wants to get back to the island b/c it was a "happier place" for him or he found some meaning there that he didn't find in the real world. I really don't think it was implied that his desire is to return and make a life on the island.
Totally agree with you, Admin! Jack wants to make something right...make a course correction! He has tremendous guilt because his actions caused something catastrophic to people on the island (making making that sat phone call like Ben said), and it's probably going to play out in the next 48 episodes what that something is.
Sayidsgirl said: I want to go from island time to future time. I don't want to know the ending of the show until the ending of the show. To me it would be pointless to watch if I already know what's going to happen in the end.
Maybe we've just seen one version of the ending of the show! The next 48 episodes are going to be Jack getting back to island and setting things right which would lead to a different outcome of present day.
An attempt at mephish's questions:
The Swan and its containment was preventing the Island from being discovered and was blocking Rousseau's transmission and made you sail in circles around the Island.
Maybe.
Post-Purpling Tom and Mikhail think the comms to the mainland are down, but it could just be the case that Greta and Bonnie are blocking them. They are also blocking Rousseau's signal.
Ben has led them to believe that the Purpling caused the comm shortout but in fact it was TLG that was blocking the signal, as a last ditch effort by Ben to stop the assault on the island. They are blocking Rousseau's signal as a consequence of blocking all signals leaving the island.
Tom and Mikhail also think that post-Purpling the buoy doesn't work. Is this true or false?
As I understand it, the 'buoy' is really The Looking Glass. Seeing as how it has a moon pool for a submarines. So, no, it wasn't working, but it wasn't because it broke, it was because they were jamming signals and turned off any broadcasting from TLG.
If it is only post-Purpling that Ben has had to take the extraordinary step of sending Bonnie and Greta to TLG, why did he want Locke to stop pushing the button?
I think he was playing mind games with Locke. Remember that Locke didn't really question the button pushing until he found the Pearl. And I still don't know exactly what triggered the blacklight, even Kelvin and Des couldn't do that. Did Ben intent to do it? I fear we may never know.
Was it because he didn't know about the failsafe? What would have happened if Desmond hadn't turned the key when the button wasn't pushed?
If Des didn't turn the failsafe key, I'm assuming there would've been some massive electromagnetic discharge.
As for the flashforward:
I think saying that what we saw is the 'ending' of the show is incorrect. Surely there will/could be flashforwards before and after that event.
But what I like best was the theory that by season 6, we will have caught up with the present day. Jack and some others will have left the island but not solved the true mysteries of the island. They need to return to make things right (I don't know if we can even BEGIN to speculate about exactly what that is right now. Perhaps it's part of the mystic thing that Ben carries on about). So they find a way, somehow, to get back to the island, and it is only in the end that they finally manage to put things right.
I don't think "Jack's life ended up sucky" is the end of Lost. That's depressing, anti-climactic, and just unlike TPTB.
Hmmm... I assumed that the moon pool was for dolphins! :-D Must have watched too much SeaQuest.
with desmonds visions the future is never exactly set. All the while desmond thought he was supposed to let charlie die, but if he had then charlie wouldnt have been able to fufill his ultimate fate. The programmer was a musician and for the first time I could say i knew why charlie had to be there. Just like locke was a gamer playing mousetrap in walmart, but eventually had to beat the chess program to unlocke the computer. I think it was clear that since Mikhail was a more recent recruit his loyalties were more with the money arm on the outside of the island that are probably one in the same with naomi's handlers. Bens orders to put three bullets in the sand and spare sayid jin and bernard proved to me that ben has some knowledge of the timeline. It has been my contention that Ben wanted to eliminate his top leitenants. Maybe thats why Ben said to leave his dad out in the micro-bus cause he knew someday that hurley would use those resources. Obviously Dharma/hanso has had some presence on the island or they would have stopped the food drops. Its clear to me that ben conned locke into not pushing the 108 clock to con his own people into thinking that the looking glass was flooded and that communications were out while his bigger plan was working to ensure that communications stayed out forever, thats why I think Mikhail just blew up the part of the looking glass that jams the signal so that his outside the island handlers would have easy access to the island. Ben proved to be the lesser of two evils because he wanted to shut down the island to the outside world while mittleos or whoever wanna exploit it. I think Ben knows that jacob doesnt control the island, since it was walt that saved locke. Ben is just like locke in thast they go straight to the island for direction. Seemed odd to me that ben and rousseau didnt say much to each other, seems like they have history beyond what we have been told. I also wonder is Christain sheppard was also a visiter to the island before he operted drunk, it seemed like Jack was experiencing withdrwals from the island, i get that it was what locke was saying all along about their destiny being on the island, Jack always wanted to be a leader and a hero, but the island was the only place he really played those roles out. I wonde rif Kate was referring to sawyer in the flash foward about noticing she was gone.
The flash foward could also sinc up the story to the lost experience. If naomi's story was true about 815 dont you think people would have said thats jack sheppard the guy that was on the real 815 not the fake one or something and I liked the oceanic golden ticket(just like willy wonka he can ride all the rides) that jack got as a conselation prize for his ordeal
So if naomis story was fake how did cooper have the same story, does not compute...
in the next to last episode did desmond see charlie getting in the raft to the looking glass by himself??? or was he with him like the reality.
Woah. Mega numbers of posts! I feel like I'm even later then usual when infact I'm earlier!
Okay so first of all. Coopers story wasn't the same as Naomi's.
Cooper just new they were all declared dead. He didn't say anything about video footage or everyone being definetly physically acounted for. When a plane crashes after a few months and with some wreckage found (especially the tail section with the black box in it, which we know is in the sea) they would declare the plane lost and everyon dead. The main reason being that the chances of finding anyone is incredibly low and none of the relatives can start to claim life insurance until it is official.
Okay more later. :)
Also I totally reckon it was locke in the coffin.
I haven't had a chance to read ANY comments since the show last night :(
The good news is there is a NEW Official Lost Video "Podcast"!
It's about the sound design in LOST.
My theory on why Naomi and Locke's dad are saying Oceanic 815 had no survivors is that that's what tjey were told on the news.
There is really a government coverup. For some reason, no one wants the public to know this island exists. So they told the public the plane crashed in the middle of the ocean, and everyone died.
Remember this?
Oceanic Air <----Disney site. I want game stuff to apply please!
How can they have a golden ticket?
Ange: I hear your pain! LOL It will so great if they work some TLE into the show. It makes sense now with the flash/forward to when Mittelwerk and gang were doing all their evil deeds!
I know it's hard to reconcile the miraculous regrowth of Oceanic Air. Wonder how many got those Golden Passes?
So far I am also on the side of thought that something went wrong with the rescue, and some Losties had to be left behind. The proverbial lifeboat problem, as someone said (good call). And this decision could have been left up to Jack, with a make or break option. Either you choose some, or no one goes, for whatever reason. And a big story could be made up by the HF as to how they got found somewhere else (Bali again?), and the rescued are warned and sworn to never speak of the secret island, ever, period. So now, Jack's conscience is gnawing at him to go back for the ones left behind. The end. Heheh. Anyway, that's how it seems to me now, with so little data....until we get more and it looks otherwise. :-)
And I also really like the thought that Henry Gale was the first attempt at getting someone from Hanso/Widmore/Paik to the island. Then they tried a little more tech-savvy attempt with Naomi. It's possible maybe?
And yeah, let the realtime Mittlewerk madness begin!! :-D
Another thought: If the world was given the story of Flight 815 found off of Bali and there were no survivors, how could there be a "rescue" off an island of the survivors of Flight 815?
I guess they could say, "Oops, made a mistake that first time! Some people were found floating on their seatcovers miles away!" :o)
Capcom, you made me LOL.
This is funny too. From DarkUFO's site:
Thanks to Patrick who works at the LA Times for the following email./
"When I came into work this morning, people were trying to figure out why a news story from April 5 had suddenly appeared in the Most Viewed stories list on our website. I don't think people quite believed me when I explained it to them."
LOST Fans--I hope someone is working on a cure. :D
That is funny news Memphish! We Lostmaniacs are a force to be heard. :o) There's probably a special wing of a sanitarium being built for us right now.
Santa Rosa right Capcom?
Heh, yeah! Here we come Dave!
Hey, I just thought of a question (sorry if someone asked already and I missed it): how is it that Locke can't kill someone when the spotlight is on, or a vital decision needs to be made, but he did not hesitate to sink that dagger into Naomi's back without a second thought, for crying out loud?! Sheesh.
I've been trying to look for a lucid answer to that too Capcom. Couldn't he at least have shot at the phone in Jack's hand. Great White Hunter Locke should have been able to shoot to wound, not kill shouldn't he? Of course, then he'd have Kate to answer to.
If Jack was forced to only take a few people with him during the rescue, wouldn't he have to take Juliet?
She is the one with the most knowledge about the island and the only person who might have possesed the knowledge about the island's location AND the desire to share it.
Somewhere way up there in the posts someone mentioned Mittlewerk's hospital ship but I can't remember if they mentioned who built it. Widmore did. Which got me thinking that the freighter might be his and maybe Naomi works for Mr.Widmore which is how she got the picture. Mr. Widmore made a copy of Penny's picture. He might be looking for Desmond too and the island.
I don't know why Locke just didn't shoot the radio on the ground. He came pretty close trying to stop Jack from picking it up.
Tx, I'm glad to see that someone besides me finds Locke's instant bloodthirst a curious thing!
And if I use the argument that Locke wanted to stay on the island THAT BAD, that he killed Naomi, I know that he wanted to see jacob that bad as well, so killing dad should have been just as easy. Unless, it was hard just because it WAS "dad". Hmm.
Sayid's Girl, I think it was Paik who built the ship wasn't it?
Acewebguy, I'd guess Jack couldn't take Juliet because she was at the beach, not the radio tower. That is assuming Desmond's helicopter flash was correct as opposed to an offshore freighter.
I don't understand why Jack is so full of doubt but Kate isn't. As much as Kate always runs she doesn't abandon people. She had to go back at least twice to check on her mom. She kept in touch with the Marshal. She wanted to make sure Ray Mullen would get his reward, and Sawyer called her out in the episode about always going back for someone.
Memphish
You may be right. Thought it was Widmore. I'll have to go dig out my dozen notes and print outs and check. Oh well it was a good theory while it lasted. Maybe Widmore shared with Paik. ;)
Good point Memphish about Kate. What has broken her drive to always go back and help, indeed?
Re: Locke killing Naomi but not Jack.
The island told John Naomi and her boat were up to no good (more on that in season four, I believe!), so he had no problem offing her. In Jack's case, Locke knows Jack's heart is in the right place, so he's willing to let Jack make his own choice (an example of Arminian free will). Locke is allowing for choice; seems like he's grown up a bit since his "accident."
I know, you're right. But in the back without warning! Criminee!
twinkle said: Last night pretty much convinced me that Kelvin was an Other too.
Great revelation (to me anyway) that Kelvin was an Other (recruited post purge?). That definitely explains even more why he didn't want Des to leave the hatch - he didn't want any of the other Others' to see Des and find out that Kelvin had a boat and was trying to leave. He probably realized how crazy Ben was too and wanted off the island as much as Juliet does.
Erich, I'm not buying it. Why does Jack get free will but Naomi doesn't? If using the phone is bad as far as Jacob/the Island/Walt are concerned it shoudn't matter who is doing the dialing. Remember Jacob is not forgiving. Will he cut Locke off now like he did Ben?
Also, why did it take them so long to answer the phone? I was beginning to think that after all that no one was going to answer.
Interesting to note, even though the LA Times was an integral part of last night's show, L.A. Times' Robert Lloyd's review was kind of mixed (IMO).
I zoomed in on the obituary and it said the body of Jo........
John locke which is why kate said "why would i go" because he tried to stop them from leaving the island and jack was upset when john died because he wishes he didnt leave the island and john would have caused him to stay. which is what jack wanted.
Wow, great comments everyone. This will definitely be an interesting hiatus.
Sleep now, more in the morrow.
wondering if there will be an ARG to get us through the summer .... I keep checking the TLE site for activity ...
Pathetic, isnt it?
Morning everyone!
RE: Golden Tickets - The airport's insurance company could have given the golden passes if the airline no longer existed. Or maybe since Oceanic Air was still operating when the plane went down, Oceanic Air's insurance company gave the golden passes to keep from being sued by refusing to provide any recompense for the crash. I see lots of ways that Oceanic Air could be bankrupt and the survivors get golden tickets.
memphish said... Also, why did it take them so long to answer the phone? I was beginning to think that after all that no one was going to answer.
Call waiting?
I was able to sort of read the article when Jack was sitting outside of the funeral home. The headline read: Man found ?? (?there were words that were on the wrinkle and couldn't be read). I was able to see that the first letter of the man's name started with a J and the last name ended in ?antham. I am thinking it is Jacob, since we don't know his last name?!? Also it says something around the lines that he was found hanging from a barn's beam. Whomever it was, was also from New York. I am still working on trying to read more.
I was also thinking maybe this scenerio just plays over and over (like Danielle's message). They keep going back (but don't remember it once they get there. It's like another chance to go back and make things right (except for, like I said they don't remember once they actually get there, and they just keep screwing it up, over and over.
Have you looked at this close up from Dark UFO? I think Admin posted it earlier. They also have shots of Ben's journal!
Sorry, the previous close-up was of the article in Jack's hand.
This one is Ben's journal!
Twink,
RE: Golden Tickets:
That is all well and good, but it still doesn't explain how Jack was just on an Oceanic Plane. I'll say it again... Lost is not the same as TLE. They are seperate continuums. One exists completely solo from the other. No doubt in my mind about this.
Could there be similar things happening in the LOST future... yes, and TWM could even be there, but they aren't the same.
Warning very long post ahead!
Ded, Twink, etc. Bankrupt doesn't equal out of existence. Delta just re-emerged from bankruptcy. United did too recently. What exactly did the Oceanic website say?
I also think we have to take those things from pre-TLE like the Oceanic site and the old Hanso site with a giant grain of salt because IMO they were for fun, but not canon. TLE on the otherhand I think is canon. The numbers mean what Hanso told us they did. The reality is on the show they are just a A MacGuffin -- a plot device that motivates the characters and/or advances the story, but has little other relevance to the story. Still they are the core values of the Valenzetti Equation and DI was trying to change them, at least at first.
Maven, I checked out that LA Times article. I think he liked the finale, but like the reviewer on TV Squad I read yesterday as well is worried about where do you go from here. I saw one bad review yesterday from the Newsday critic. If anyone gets bored over the hiatus, I say we spam him. The man gets paid to watch TV and he didn't get that it was a flash forward.
I thought that was the most satisfying 2 hour viewing experience I've had in years, but it certainly required me to have watched for the past 3 years in order to get the ultimate enjoyment out of it. While it was technically wonderful, the acting was wonderful, etc., unless you really care about the characters and understand something about their motivations, it wasn't going to mean as much to you.
It's amazing to me that the thing that we thought would bring our LOSTies and us great joy--their rescue--actually has me so worried for the people I've cared about for 3 years, especially Jack. The ultimate in "be careful what you wish for," and "things aren't what they seem," but delivered in a non-hokey, imminently believable fashion.
I'm sure this will be in J. Wood, but I'm going to try to get there first. There were 3 suicide attempts in the episode. Jack stopped his because the opportunity to save others with science (medicine) intervened. Locke stopped his because his faith in his destiny on the Island was restored. And coffin guy back in the real world succeeded.
memphish... I couldn't agree with you more. If you're a casual viewer, you might have been a little disappointed. But for us diehard Lost fanatics, it was the best 2 hours of TV.
And yes, what we've wanted to happen for the past 3 years (rescue) is not their fate.
I'm not sure about the some left behind theory. The only reason being that it seems to me that if they had limited space to take people:
Jack would volunteer to stay, with his whole leadery vibe.
Kate being on the run would be a dumb option to go back if there were some to be left behind.
Why would either Ben or Locke go back? If there is limited space surely they wouldn't force either of those people to go back. Indeed anyone that is likely to have no one visiting at their funeral probably wouldn't go back.
It could be that they didn't get the choice, it was made for them. Perhaps if things went wrong in their rescue maybe it was more of a scramble to get people off then a choice of who is left behind.
But my personal opinion is that Jack isn't after going back for the nobel reason of leaving anyone behind. Instead either there are some consequences for what happened that lead him to believe Ben & Locke were right or Jack is feeling like he lost a part of himself when he left the island. Maybe the island healed his broken heart or something.
Maybe it is even as simple as the fact that he never brought his dads body back to bury it at home. Which is also why he's convinced in his drugged up and messed up head that his father is still alive.
Ben said that everyone living on the island would be killed. But they way he said it was like he was saying the dead people wouldn't be killed. Which you'd think would be kinda obvious unless he was speaking in metaphors. Like dead inside kinda thing. But whatever the case it's clear everyone wasn't killed.
It's so frustrating we have to wait extrordinarily long to find out what happened. Lol.
Fenris, I agree that Jack would give his seat to someone else if there are only so many. After all as Ben pointed out what does he have to go back to. I think they'll either all be rescued or Jack will be forced to leave if it is survivor guilt driving him. But I don't think it is. I agree with you it's not survivor's guilt, but a conviction that he made the wrong choice in leaving.
Why he thinks he can go back? You've got me. It's very "Man of Faith" of him.
Why does Ben persist in making the argument that Jack should stay in terms of the downside of going back or what will happen versus the upside of not leaving? You catch more flies with honey than vinegar Ben!
RE: Jack wanting to find the island
Just rewatched the episode. I might be shaken from my stand that Jack primarily wanted to return b/c people were left behind. At the airport, Jack actually quoted Locke when he told Kate that "We made a mistake...We were not supposed to leave...We have to go back Kate. We have to go back!" What Jack said and how he said it did not necessarily have the implication that he had to go back for the purpose of rescuing some who were left behind. I think I initially heard that b/c that's what I wanted to believe. Now I'm starting to think that Jack is beginning to feel some of the unexplainable pulls of fate and destiny that Locke has been feeling all along.
RE: I'm sick of lying
I also wanted to point out Jack's quote, "I'm sick of lying". This has not been discussed much and I'd like to know what you guys think. What are they lying about? Have they chosen to lie or are they being forced to lie?
Memphish: I know my "free will" argument from last night makes a subtle distinction, but I think it's an important one.
Naomi = bad (and I think we'll find out why in season four, and I really think the rescue won't go as smoothly as it appears it will in the finale)
Jack isn't bad. He's about to make a bad choice, but he's not out to purposely harm anyone.
I think Locke's past problems stem from his viewing the island in black/white terms, forcing people to bend to his will (see the button-pushing fiasco last season). He, like Ben, has confused the island's will with his own. How do we know the black/white, good/bad view of things is Jacob's and not Ben's?
If we look at Eko's death, we see the island does punish "sin," but it offers a chance for redemption, to choose right.
The idea of free will is central to Christianity (I know not everything in the show fits this model, but at least some of it does). The idea that you can't really be saved if you don't have a choice about sinning...that coming to God wouldn't mean anything if you didn't have the choice not to.
Locke reached a low point in that grave. I think he's "resurrected" a changed man. He's willing to punish blatant evil (Naomi) but also willing to give people like Jack a chance to realize that what the island has in store for them is better than what they want for themselves.
LONG POST, but please read cuz I need help.
I like your question admin. I am going to think about that one for the rest of the day.
But I have another question for everyone... I was really busy last summer (renovating a house) and know close to nothing about "The Lost Experience". I have read a little about it, but need to know what to do with it? Is it part of the story officially? Was It just for fun? Are there some parts that we need to understand?
I cannot understand how a show this involving, this deep, would have a big part of it online (and I am online everyday)!
What about the people without online access?
How can I go back and view, listen, enjoy "The Lost Experience" when from what I hear most of the sites are no longer functional?
This might be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard (not meant to offend anyone who enjoyed TLE).
If it is vital for me to understand TLE to eventually understand LOST, then shouldn't TPTB put it back online or even better package it into a DVD set and make it available.
I initially thought TLG was just for fun, a way to pass the time, but so many people are referencing it that it is frustrating me that as a true fan of this show since the beginning, I may never be able to fully understand it.
Plus I have "Bad Twin" but have not read it. Again, thought it was just for fun (plus I heard it sucked), but now I do not now.
HELP..........
it's interesting, the "your not supposed to do that" and "we were not supposed to leave" both remind me of the ring woman in Des' flashback. Hmm
As for Jack lying. Well I kinda think that they were sworn to secrecy on their rescue. That it is supposedly (I.E. They claim) the DI that is returning and returning to continue their supposed goal of saving the world and therefore the losties can't ever reveal anything they saw on the island. Also possibly they went in to purge all the Others.
You know this all fits back in with the Lost Experience now. The comments about the alpha site in the spider protocal and all that. Because if the DI is back in control of the island of course it would be a viable destination now (and was at the time we did it).
If it is related to Widmore and they are purging the Others, perhaps the reason they let anyone survive off the island was simply to appease Penny. Bring her Desmond back and his friends on the provision she keeps quiet and doesn't continue to investigate on what she found out.
I really like that idea that they could return to the island but be unable to change anything ... repeating the same actions over and over like a loop ... I used to think that the whole "time travel" thing was too implausible sounding to be a legit theme but with all the hints toward that end, dropping various names like Hawking and Minkowski, it is looking more and more plausible.
Not that it is closer to the truth than any one of a hundred other theories. After checking out Lostpedia "Theories" this morning i realized how many damn theories there are, and at least half of them make sense too ... argh!
Speaking of ARG (how that for a segue)...i know that there is probably going to be no direct connection between the TLE world main characters and the show ... I say probably because there is still a sliver of hope in my mind that somehow they will intersect, perhaps an appearance by mittelwerk somewhere down the line or something ... but as much as i love the show and had fun with the game, the fact that they are "2 separate entities" feels wrong, like we were duped. I mean, the game came from the same company that makes the show, right? Maybe directly from the same creative team, but certainly with their knowledge and consent ... and for it to have really nothing to do with the show would be a real let-down, like they were just f*cking with us, almost a betrayal. I dont think they will reveal whether there will be future tie-ins or not either, because i am sure they want us to continue watching the show till the end to find out. As great as the show is, that would be lame and a real kind of betrayal of trust of a lot of loyal followers ... it would leave a bad taste in my mouth thats for sure. For now , even a little tie-in sometime in the next season would be cool ... thoughts?
acewebguy - the idea of the experience is to give background info that is handy to have but not vital to enjoying the series. Simple as that.
Secondly anyone that watches lost but doesn't have internet access, needs to post here otherwise I don't believe they exist :D
As for bad twin, there was one relevent chapter to LOST and that was just the link between the Hanso Foundation and Widmore. That is it.
The novel wasn't that bad. It was readable. Flawed, but entertaining enough.
hey fen ... you a zappa fan too? i knew you were cool
The thing to consider with Mittlewerk is that he wouldn't be played by the same actor or even neccisarily have the same name. For all we know it may have been the head monk in Desmonds 108 bottles of wine for $108 each order or somehow ends up being Richard Alpert, everyone did notice how he looked a bit like him.
Okay here is something. Anyone seen the film "Prince of Darkness". In that film people in the future have attempted to change the past by sending a message into the past, with the idea of trying to prevent the apocalypse and the comming of the anti-christ. The idea is that they can't time travel but they can communicate with the past. Perhaps that is something like what is happening in Lost.
Hehe, thanks whitefalcon. Yeah I've been a Zappa fan since I was about 15. "We're only in it for the money" is my all time favorite album. :)
Acewebguy,
You can check out thelostexperienceclues.com and look at the right sidebar. It has links to "Speaker's Weekly Summaries". If you read up on those, you can get a good idea of what TLE was all about. Lostpedia also has a good page about it. If you really want to go deep, click the archives on thelostexperienceclues.com and read every post! It will give you a full chronological overview of the Experience.
I'm not sure about intersection of the Experience with the show. I think it was more about a storyline that they wanted to tell but couldn't figure out a way to work it into the show. It basically gave more background about the DI, The Hanso Foundation, and the Numbers. It also revealed the current state of The Hanso Foundation today.
I think TPTB know that only a very small percentage of Lost's audience participated in TLE. They wouldn't make it so that knowledge of TLE would be critical for understanding the plot of the show. I think that understanding of TLE will enhance your understanding of the show but it isn't necessary. Don't sweat it.
Fenris - I understand a little better now. But still think that is flawed logic on the part of the creators.
It would be extremely easy, not to mention extremely profitable, to try and package TLE into something that could bought and "experienced" this summer. I feel cheated because I want to know everything I can and so far am unable to.
Plus, for everyone who did experience it last summer, wouldn't you want to re-watch it again and pick out more interesting things.
Acewebguy,
Fenris said...
acewebguy - the idea of the experience is to give background info that is handy to have but not vital to enjoying the series. Simple as that.
Ignore my really long post and just go with what Fenris said. :)
acewebguy,
TLE wasn't something you "watched". It was literally something that we all "experienced" and participated in together. We actually had quite a bit of interaction with TPTB throughout the experience.
You should really spend some time clicking through thelostexperienceclues.com. You can still experience a lot of things by following along there.
Cool, thanks Admin (and Fenris too).
I just kept hearing over and over that Oceanic was bankrupt, Mittlework, Racheal,yada,yada,yada...
and felt like I may get lost down the road.
I did read Lostpedia which is why I know a little, but it's not like the real thing.
But I will check out thelostexperienceclues.com starting this weekend. (maybe it can occupy my time until February)
BTW, have you thought about adding a countdown to the Season 4 premiere?
Check out this site to see what I mean:
http://www.superherohype.com/batman/
LOL. There is something kinda funny about me ending up writing the short concise post of the morning. :)
It is worth following Davids links there though for TLEC and everything else. There are archived versions of the Hanso site where you can go and see everything we saw in the way we saw it. Plus you can see all the videos from Rachel Blake including the big one that has the origional DI initiation video in it. That is likely to be the most relevent part of the show and I expect it will be a bonus on the season 3 DVD so everyone else can catch up with that info if they don't have internet access.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-eHEYswgK8
That is the video in question. I don't have a link to the archived THF website but shouldn't be hard to find. It's either linked on TLEC or Lostpedia (or both).
Okay I'm off for now.
I hope everyone has a great Memorial Day weekend!
Looking forward to reading all your thoughts when I get back.
I had a thought about LOST and Watership Down this morning. Is Naomi's people bringing the White Blindness to the Island or are they the Efrafan Rabbits who are going to assimilate the Island or something else or none of the above? Discuss.
admin: I am pondering your question about what Jack is lying about. I have also been chatting with Fenris about it, and I think I have a couple of clear questions in my head now:
1. If they are supposed to be lying about soimething that happened on the island, or ABOUT the island period, then whey wouldn't TPTB just kill everyone that was a survivor? A purge of the 815ers seeing that the world thinks they are dead anyway. Of course this is assuming that whoever rescued them is tied to Dharma, Paik, or Widmore.
2. Perhaps Kate and Jack are the only ones who made it off. Maybe they are lying about what really happened to everyone else? Altough this has so many flaws that I can't believe I actually typed it. I need to rewatch and see what Jack says about the golden tickets...that may clue in to how many people got tickets form Oceanic (we all versus us). *shrug*
That question certainly begs consideration though.
memphish I am only to the King's Lettuce, so I will have to think about your bunny rabbit question later :D
PS: THF.org is still up but it has that letter that came at the end of the game from Alvar Hanso.
Twinkle said: I see lots of ways that Oceanic Air could be bankrupt and the survivors get golden tickets.
I think Oceanic was still in business because Future Jack was flying on it in the opening scene.
Fenris said: But my personal opinion is that Jack isn't after going back for the nobel reason of leaving anyone behind.
Totally agreed. Something major happened from the consequences of his using that sat phone, and he feel that he should go back and correct it. I think those who wanted to leave, left. There's no one he's going back for...maybe just for himself.
Totally agree also that unless you've seen all three seasons, the finale's many layers are meaningless. My son's mother-in-law is a big Lost fan, but when we discuss the show and I point out thinks we've been discussing here, she's flabberghasted (for example, she didn't know we "saw" Jacob). Not that I'm putting some fans of Lost down...we're a very special bunch of obsessed people! LOL
It would be great if TLE intersected with the show. (Kinda make last summer a little more important.) And the time frame works now with the flash forward. It would make sense that the freighter off the island now is connected to the one Paik built for Mittelwerk and they've come to "take back the island" from the hostiles that purged them not too long ago. And then Mittelwerk and his gang can continue their evil work on their agenda.
Hope all have a great Memorial Day weekend. Hopefully, we'll all come back next week with more great discussions (I don't know how long we can keep this going...at least for a while longer!)
On to the Book Club....
First, I think Jack means they have to go back because they were never meant to leave. Like it changed the outcome of things in the future that should not have been. For instance, if he had not come back and attempted to jump off the bridge, his vehicle wouldn't have been in traffic, most likely causing 2 near deaths.
Second...please tell me where to find the book list. I am reading Wrinkle In Time now...but I need the list in the correct order.
ular97,
click HERE FOR THE BOOK CLUB LIST.
This link and the list will be added to the front page (along with a new banner) once things get wrapped up with Season 3. June 1st would be the planned "launch date". I wanted to give David & Steve the chance to record a Finale-centric podcast before distracting attention with the book club. One thing at a time...
random thoughts of a cluttered mind...
the fact that jack cant find the island in 2007 suggest the island still operational. there is still a blocking mechanism in place. which leads me to speculate that maybe the rescue is more of a takeover. and the lie jack and kate may be referring to ties into a deal made with the mittelos people who are running around with spies all over the world. If there was indeed a cover up that the survivors were all dead, then there would have to be another deal made to cover up the cover up.
i dont believe that noami is dead from a knife in the back on this island.
we have seen penny on the season finale making contact twice with the island. maybe she is getting used by her father and the monk to locate the island.
sorry for the long post.
Have a wonderful memorial weekend.
What if a few people were "rescued" (Jack, Kate, coffin person, etc.) for publicity purposes by an outside agency. Jack, Kate, etc. were then forced to go along with the story otherwise the people who wanted to stay on the island would be killed.
And they were told they could never communicate with each other again.
Might explain why Kate had to get back, AND why Jin and Sun (who were definetely on the plane in the intro) never seemed to acknowledge Jack.
That would mentally destroy "hero" Jack and could be the lie he was talking about.
the way that kate was so defensive about not going to the funeral i bet it was julliette in the coffin. I guess im in the minority t hat thinks they will tie it to tle with the same actors even. I think part of why there is no tle2 is that would go far past the conclusion. They let a lot of info loose last summer and i think they are worried aboutr painting themselves in a corner. Mikhails shadow a handlers and the ultimate answer to who programmed the computers on the island are still to be really answered. I also think that Hanso could have been lying in his final video of tle. If there is really a life extension project on the island and hanos grampa is buried on the island i have to think he wants to harness that. Even the aged hanso looks much younger than his bio would have us think. When mikhail said
"if julliette told them about the looking glass then what else did she tell them" let the door open that julliette has some secrets she hasnt told jack. Just like when someone is talking to julliette after she was there for six months and the implyed the crazy stuff she has seen on the island. I think the stuff that klugh and mikhail would die to cover up has yet to be revealed, and yes that could tie into the virus in tle. I also think that part of why bens plan didnt have richard die with all the other top guys is the same reason that ben wanted to see if locke could communicate with jacob, out of pure curiousity for the truth about the island. If ben wants to be immortal it makes sense why he would keep richard alive cause he holds the key. Thats why they were testing on walt cause they want to find out the x-facter that makes the special people special so they could harness the healing powers of the island for everyone. i would also add that i think mikhail is on that special list by all the times he has healed from seemingly deadly situations. Jacob list was never about being good or bad it was about being special or ordinaRY.
ya another thing doesnt add up, if mikhail made it so the island couldn't be jammed anymore why cant jack find it again? can anyone tell me what the latimes april 5th stuff is all about i missed that??
obviously ben only really trusted those two girls on the looking glass out of all the others why else would they be the only ones with the jamming code. Tom showed his true colors right before he dies when he was pissed that ben wanted to spare the three losties on the beach. I am surprised that i am the only one that thinks ben is privy to the timeline, thats why he leaves all the pieces in place. Bens flashback to being recruirted and comments to lockes about staying out of the mass grave show me that ben had no choice but to lead the Dhothers nad has been waitiing all these years to consolidate his power and get rid of most of the people that are loyal to thweir off island backers. beside ethan goodwin colleen and denny he also got rid of his next ten best guys, who would all be a challange to ihis primacy...what ever happened to seeing marvin candle in the present on the island, they must have cut it out, cause i read an interview with the actor where he said it was fun to uinteract wioth the present day cast and i thought we were gonna see how he lost his arm in graphic detail?
"the thought that Henry Gale was the first attempt at getting someone from Hanso/Widmore/Paik to the island."
How do you explain his 20-dollar bill then? It said something like "Well, you were right. I'll go to the beach and make a signal fire, but if you're reading this I guess I didn't make it." Unless it was faked, it seems like he doesn't have a relation to Hanso.
Other thoughts:
-The 'rescue' seen at the end of the finale is not a rescue. Listen to it again. Doesn't the tone of that guy ("Well hell yeah we can!") sound familiar to you? Hmmm... where have we heard something like that? It is exactly the same tone as Tom took when he encountered the raft. Overly cheerful and accomodative- but with something lurking beneath.
So, no, I don't believe Jack and Kate will be rescued by the 'freighter' nor anyone else- except perhaps Claire and Aaron. But are we sure that's a rescue and not a kidnapping?
I think J&K need to go back not necessarily solely because they left people, but because there was something about the island left unresolved.
What will happen to Ben? Are we going to have Henry Gale, pt. 2?
acewebguy... Sun & Jin were on the plane in the opening scene on the airplane behind Jack? Did I miss something here? No. I just checked the screen caps. That's not them.
I haven't seen the screencaps, but I rewatched it and it lookd just like them.
But, I could definetely be wrong.
It looks like Jin and Sun, but it isn't.
ace... check these out DarkUFO Screen Caps
Are you guys talking about the asian man in the left of the pic?
That isn't Jin. Jin is in a shot a few frames later when the stewardess is helping jack. You see a asian man briefly in between the seats sitting behind jack.
It is a few frames after the pic you directed me to.
I am almost sure of it. Watch the show and go frame by frame (i do it with a DVR) and there is someone there.
Is that Jin???
Just realized I wrote stewardess instead of flight attendant. My mistake. Sorry about that.
april 5th la times????
did i dream that marvin candle stuff???
april 5th la times????
did i dream that marvin candle stuff???
my wife was asking me if people heal on the island and maybe even come back from near death why did the dharma people stay dead in the pit and i could only think of three explainations, either the island heals who it wants to and the dharmites werent worthy, or the gas they used on them was island proof, or lastly and most intriguingly maybe that pit is a neutral zone so to speak that doesnt have the islands miraculous properties, that might explain why ben chose that spot to shoot locke and also why lockes legs stopped working in the pit, walt or whoever had to convince him to swallow his pride and crawl out of the pit and maybe then the healing began, because locke seemed a lot better by the time he got yto the radio tower, yet he had been in the pit for hours and only seemed to gwet worse...
Ange said: "we all versus us".....don't you mean "we all everybody versus us"? Heheh. Well, that's my contribution for the day. :o)
http://www.mackthompsonlaw.com/
hey is this oceanic hanso merger stuff from the lost experience or is it new cause i dont remember any of this stuff
color me crazt but i think they are putting more stuff out there there is a portland thing on this page and portland wasnt in the picture last summer
http://www.hansoair.org/
http://www.myspace.com/mackthompsonlaw seems to me these might be the seed for an unofficial tle2
2costa, that HansoAir merger thing came out near the end, or after the end, of TLE. I don't know if Lostpedia has it listed as ingame or not, I can't remember, and can't get to it right now cause my internet connection is being picky today. Check over there and see if it has it listed. Either way, it's an interesting site, but not one with not much to say, although it was updated again early this year.
http://www.myspace.com/mackthompsonlaw this has to be tle2 if it isnt i dont know wtf it could be
check out the pages capcom there is new stuff on there and new pages and info that tie into the finale and golden tickets maybe
December 16th, 2006
You might be wondering why I haven’t updated any news about the lawsuits or the papers I received. This is because the defense teams at Hanso have succeeded in convincing the judge(s) in these lawsuits to place a gag order on my team and I. I can no longer talk about these cases in public domain. I don’t agree, but I must obey the order. At this point I cannot even confirm if the package I talked about before is real - or I might risk further libel ‘issues’. I am losing faith in the legal system I have defended for so long.
this date is after tle ended
Legal Document Exhibit 2
This document appears to be an adoption certificate for a Mack Thompson in Tennessee. I am not sure where this document fits in except that I believe someone from The Hanso Foundation sent it to me. A swift search showed no records of a Mack Thompson in Tennessee that match this certificate, but it is clearly genuine. A more in depth look may reveal more of the meaning to this interesting document.
Well, it has always looked convincing, I don't know. While hope springs eternal in my heart that we would get a TLE2, there are ways of looking at the source, etc., (hey you PC gurus, help me out) that tells you whether or not it's owned and created by ABC. Someone in the comments says on his page that Lostpedia has deemed it as a fake. But sure, I keep hoping. :-}
"The body of John Lantham of New York was found shortly after 4 am in the 4300 block of Grand Avenue.
Ted Worden, a doorman at the Tower Lofts complex, heard loud noises coming from the victim's loft.
Concerned for tenants' safety, he entered the loft and found the body hanging from a beam in the living room.
According to Jaime Ortiz, a police spokesman, the incident was deemed a suicide after medical tests. Latham (sic) is survived by one teenaged son.
Memorial services will be held at the Hoffs-Drawlar Funeral Home tomorrow evening."
Source: The Fuselage
maybe john latham is mike and his teenage son is walt
seems weird that they would keep updating it if it were a fugazi, the whole mack thompson mystery with the six crytip messages seems too random to be fake
Admin said:
RE: I'm sick of lying
I also wanted to point out Jack's quote, "I'm sick of lying". This has not been discussed much and I'd like to know what you guys think. What are they lying about? Have they chosen to lie or are they being forced to lie?
I think they/he are being forced to lie. I'm not sure about what or why though.
Right before Jack says that he says he's been flying alot because he wants it to crash and when they hit turbulance he closes his eyes and prays he can get back. Kate says It's not going to change.
I'm curious what Kate thinks isn't going to change if he can get back. Also why would he think if the plane crashed it would get him back?
i guess your right its all fake
but that fusalage thing is real and the newspaper from the finale being real smacks of tle2 i hope
if they are being saved 90 days after the crashed and the flash foward is like three years after that why was jack just meeting the new chief of surgery, yet still a liscensed doctor. Why didnt anyone call him out about his dad being dead. Why was jacks ex asking if he was drinking again like he already had a problem. and who is John lanthum???
acewebguy this is for you... If you want to catch up with The Lost Experience, I suggest the following links:
• walkthrough
• old hanso foundation site not sure if everything still works, tho
• stop hanso, rachel blake recap
• TLE video recap from buddytv
• dj dan podcasts
.
sorry I don't have time to talk today, but I'll be back tomorrow....
Acewebguy,
Here are a few other sights that might give you some more insight into TLE. On the hanso site I think some of the Passwords may still work as well.
New Old Hanso Site
Rachel's Blog
DJ Dan
Hanso Exposed
Where is Alvar
Also along with the RB video posted earlier, they are all still there on youtube. search Rachel Blake and watch in numbered order.
Memphish,
On the Oceanic Bankruptcy thing... you basically put how I meant it... lol
still catching up...
Hey cody'smom,
Stay out of my head... lol
Great minds and what not...
Mack tthompson = Fake.
Interesting that someone got that much out of the article (obit) and from Bens journal.... they must have HD tv's... lol
J.Wood is up.
well, I think we're both virgos:)
HD makes a difference... my screencaps aren't half as good as on darkufo
thanks, maven. will read j wood later, gotta scoot (again)
Check it out:
John Lantham, i got nothing. No anagrams or anything. Now John LATHAM, as it is spelled later in the article, was a scientist/conceptual artist who "devised the idea of 'flat-time', based on the theoretical physics of Event Structure."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Latham_(artist)
Another theoretical physics-related name drop!
BTW How did we get from "J..?..ntham" to "John Lantham"?
codysmom, ded
Thanks for the links. I started copying all of the Rachel Blake videos on Youtube into my favorites folder. SO glad we have a three day weekend...
Also, Vossek69's recap is up at DarkUFO.
hey i went to that nikatnight page to find out who got the full text of the obit and it was posted by "anonymous" - no link - smacks of tie in
Maven said: Oceanic was still in business
Ah! See, I missed the opening scenes. Hopefully my husband and I will watch it again this weekend so I can see all the parts I missed while trying to put a fussy 2 year old to bed.
But anyway the main point was the I don't think the is it bankrupt or not issue as being a big one. You all just put it better than I did. :-)
acewebguy said:
If [TLEC} is vital for me to understand TLE to eventually understand LOST...
No worries. It isn't vital or even necessary. The biggest thing might be the DHARMA training video embedded in the Hanso Exposed one. It's kind of like Heroes has online graphic novels and at least one game that I know of that contribute to the background of the show but aren't necessary. Heroes is taking what Lost attempted and making it work better.
Except for the heroes ARG (360) which for the most part has not been all that thrilling. Very little to do but watch and wait. At least with TLE you were challenged to figure thing's out. 360 is just as lame as the finale was. Even the Heroescast people thought it was junk... lol
Sorry the previous post should have been If it is vital for me to understand TLE...
A friend of mine caught up on Lost Season 1 and 2 on DVD this winter and then watched the end of Season 3 (cheating, I know). Anyway, she wrote to say that she couldn't stop thinking about the finale. I wrote about all we talked about the last two days. Here's her response:
what i am interested in and thinking about is what great storytellers the writers of the show are and the overarching themes they seem to be weaving into the story. i'm not so much wondering who's in the casket as i am wondering what whoever is in the cakset will contribute to the story and themes being developed.
I love her focus. What if the person in the casket is someone we haven't been introduced to yet? And I agree about the story weaving.
I didn't follow it. I just caught the clue at the end of the graphic novel to check Hannah Gittelman's website which lead to clues about how they were rigging the election and you could help. Sure it was hokey but when, on the show, Linderman talked about needing Micah because his first plan didn't work, it made me smile really big because I knew why!
Hey Everyone-
LOOOOOVE your comments. By the time I caught up with the first 600 or so… you’ve said just about all I wanted to! I hope these aren't to "stale" to post!
flashforward… I was clueless and will trust the wonderful writers.
Ange- Father of Sarah’s baby…. maybe Jack? If the fertility problem is in the sperm, we’ve taken the fertility issues off the island!
DarkAardvark- as of Thursday afternoon, no one had asked you to expand on
Rousseau's transmission that said "They're all dead and Brandon took the key"?? Do expand please??? (If you already did, I'll catch up...)
Going out on a limb(o)… Christian Shepard is alive in real time. My guesses--- Jack and Dad “switched” fates but Jack can’t accept present day dad (sober,as Jack was pre-Island) and relies on his memory of him as a drunk. I also wouldn’t rule out Jack and the Santa Rosa Mental Institute…. Memphish, I also like your thoughts about this being ON ISLAND Jack having a flash forward like Des….
I think Kate is with Sawyer- maybe both can’t be tried because they were declared legally dead??? The idea of this Jeremy Bentham and regulating yourself in prison could also possibly give Kate credit for “time served” or acquit her altogether…Sawyer is more difficult to apply that theoretical acquittal to, but I believe (hope) that is who she is with.
The funeral…. Locke is my first choice, but Ben, and Michael, and maybe Richard are also good guesses. Maybe someone we’ve not yet met- someone from the rescue? I agree with the theory that who ever it was had a link back to the island or, in the very least, was a partner in whatever “secret” is being kept/lying…
Ezra- Locke’s paralysis = psychosomatic. it fits with him being denied disability benefits for his depression. At an extreme, that kind of mental deficiency, also put us all at Santa Rosa too!
EF, Capcom…yes, Claire has to find the DS ring! Good call Sayid’sgirl… Richard Malcom did say Claire needed to raise the child alone. Don’t you just get amazed that that was put in place eons ago! Still sad for Charlie!
Kate’s blue T shirt (memphish) didn’t someone theorize that on the island “blue” was “good”… now Kate is wearing it “off” the island, and jack is not…alluding to the role reversal.
Dass99---YES! You beat me to postulating that the rescued bridge woman is Juliette’s sister Rachel and her son!
maven said...1. So the first 3 seasons have basically been one gigantic FLASHBACK?
OH DEAR ME! (YES YELLING) Brain frying as I read that!
You guys are probably 100 steps (or more!) ahead of this post, but I’m tossing it in anyway, or I’ll never catch up! ;-)
Has anyone thought about the possibility that the island may be like a portal or key when turned may influence the world beyond the island such that when Jack and Kate are off the island in the future, they might be experiencing an alternative reality. In other words, it could be like the butterfly effect, where actions on the island may influence future experiences in the future, which might explain why Jack's father was alive and why he wanted to get back to the island to try and change this new alternative reality, whereas Kate may be benefitting from the alternative reality since she might no longer be a fugative. This whole story line might be similar to the the "Back to the Future" 80's movies with the island functioning as a means for altering the future. With this type of explanation, anyone who was dead prior to them going to the island could be alive and the future reality which has been altered by their actions on the future. Although, no one from the future would know that the reality had been changed. Those that escaped from the island would know about the alternative change.
Can I get anyone's input on this or anything that would support this theory?
Good, all caught up, if you aren't all gone, just a few other thoughts...
Capcom-
The “lying” being a cover up for where/how they were found… I like it.
Re:the left behind theory, Memphish makes a great point about Kate- “Sawyer called her out in the episode about always going back for someone…..” Given this, and Jack's usual M.O., I don’t think anyone was left behind yet (wouldn’t rule it out), unless they chose to —but Kate would be the one who wanted to go back. I don’t know that they are, but I think there are other reasons for Jack’s wanting to go back to the island. I think I agree more with Fenris on this topic. And I think the "lies" are all a part of it...
ERIch said…
Locke....He's willing to punish blatant evil (Naomi) but also willing to give people like Jack a chance to realize that what the island has in store for them is better than what they want for themselves.
I really like this!
Darkaardvark said-The 'rescue' seen at the end of the finale is not a rescue. Listen to it again. Doesn't the tone of that guy ("Well hell yeah we can!") sound familiar to you? ….. It is exactly the same tone as Tom took when he encountered the raft. I THOUGHT I WAS NUTS- SANTA ROSA FOR ME TOO!! But I'm with you... the tone, the content, etc... it all echoes season 1 finale!
Finally, I know I'm REALLY late on this one, but the "answer’s" show… the one thing that stood out to me is that D&C said re: the Others, “there are 30-40 of them, WE THINK”--- wonder what that means?
This was posted over at the Fuselage as a version from someone that they suspect works on the show.
"The body of John Lantham of New York was found shortly after 4 am in the 4300 block of Grand Avenue.
Ted Worden, a doorman at the Tower Lofts complex, heard loud noises coming from the victim's loft.
Concerned for tenants' safety, he entered the loft and found the body hanging from a beam in the living room.
According to Jaime Ortiz, a police spokesman, the incident was deemed a suicide after medical tests. Latham (sic) is survived by one teenaged son.
Memorial services will be held at the Hoffs-Drawlar Funeral Home tomorrow evening."
Source: The Fuselage
no thoughts on where jack was between the radio tower and getting ready to jump off the bridge(i think its three years) and how did the new chief not pull his lisense if he is so contoncandied up to think his dad is still alive
Maven,
Thanks for the link. Everyone, if you haven't been reading J.Wood, you should be.
For all you Lost Experience fans out there...
"That satellite phone was meant to contact the boat, and this is where we get some recuperation of The Lost Experience. Although it wasn't necessary to play the alternate reality game in order to get everything that's happened this season, The Lost Experience provided a good deal of ancillary narrative material and extra understanding. In it, we learned about Thomas Mittelwerk, an Austrian biogeneticist who was hand-picked by Alvar Hanso to work for the Hanso Foundation. (His last name is also the name of an underground rocket facility built by the Nazis with slave concentration camp labor.) Mittelwerk eventually overthrew Alvar Hanso and used the enterprise for his own purposes, which are still unclear. However, he was hell-bent on finding the island, and in order to get there, he ordered a special freighter called to be developed, a boat that could handle the rigors of the voyage to the unfindable island. And he hired Mr. Paik of Paik Heavy Industries — Sun's father — to build the ship, the Helgus Antonius. Is Naomi's boat the Helgus Antonius?
Hey all........Just thought i would throw my 2 cents in here.....
1. I dont think we have met the man in the coffin yet.
2. I truly believe that the Naomi ship was Widmore's doing...trying to stop Penny from finding Desmond. Why else would she have a picture of Penny and Des..and recognize Desmond immed. and seem to have no knowledge of anything else.
3.I do NOT think Jack is the "future" Jacob, the "present" Jacob or any Jacob. I think Jacob is a separate identity. Perhaps what happens to people like Locke and Mikail who seem to have death beaten over and over again. What would happen to those people after 30, 40, 70 years? Bodies could not last that long....but perhaps ther essence does.
4.For some reason, I think Christian Shepherd is alive in the flash forward. I know Jack is drugging and drinking, but i do not think he would forget his father's death.
5. Now i am heading for Santa Rosa. : )
"DarkAardvark- as of Thursday afternoon, no one had asked you to expand on
Rousseau's transmission that said "They're all dead and Brandon took the key"?? Do expand please??? (If you already did, I'll catch up...)"
The line is '"Il est dehors. Il est dehors et Brennan a pris les clés. Veuillez nous aider. Ils sont morts. Ils sont tous morts. Aidez-nous. Ils sont morts."'
He/it is outside. He/it is outside and Brennan took the keys. Please help us. They are dead. They are all dead. Help us. They are dead.
I have no idea what it means, i don't think we've ever been given an explanation as to who Brennan is or what key it was.
admin-
I hardly had time to keep up with you guys! Thanks for the cheat sheet on J.Wood (so cool!)... will get to his (and other's) columns over the long weekend...
hope you all enjoy whatever you've got planned!!!!!
D.Aardvark...THANKS! ;-) I missed that first time around!
darkaardvark,
Possibly stupid question...Is there any way it was "Bentham" and not "Brennan"?
lvmyaussies
I agree with you on your number 2 and number 4.
I think Widmore made a copy of Penny's picture and gave it to Naomi.
I can't understand why everyone assumes that Jack's dad is dead in the future flash. I'm with you I don't think anyone could be so drugged up they'd forget their dad was dead.
" darkaardvark,
Possibly stupid question...Is there any way it was "Bentham" and not "Brennan"? "
I would say almost certainly no. For one thing, Bentham (I think )isn't French, and if it were being pronounced in French (again, not a native speaker) it would sound more like ben-THON (it's hard to write it out phonetically). But no, I don't think so. I had it wrong about 'brandon' but I doubt it could be Bentham.
On the way to the funeral, Jack was listening to the song Scentless Apprentice by Nirvana. The date on the Newspaper clipping announcing the funeral was April 5, 2007 which is the thirteenth anniversary of Kurt Cobain's (a drug addict) suicide.
Here is the wikipedia entry on the Buddhist concept of Nirvana
Here are the lyrics to Scentless Apprentice:
Like most babies smell like butter
His smell smelled like no other
He was born scentless and senseless
He was born a scentless apprentice
Go away - get away, get a-way
Every wet nurse refused to feed him
Electrolytes smell like semen
I promise not to sell your perfumed secrets
There are countless formulas for pressing flowers
Go away - get away, get a-way
I lie in the soll and fertilize mushrooms
Leaking out gas fumes are made into perfume
You can't fire me because I quit!
Throw me in the fire and I won't throw a fit
Go away - get away, get away, get away, get away, get away, get a-way
First up, Jack's father is dead. TPTB said that he was truely dead and I don't think they meant this as he would show up alive in the future, but they meant it as he is DEAD!
My sister-in-lawwas in a car accident a few years ago and when they gave her the pain killers (which were far less strong than oxiconten) she kept asking why her mother hadn't come to visit her, she had been dead for five years, so The drugs can deffinitely mess with your perseptions of time. She knew everything else as if it were today, but that one fact kept kreeping in to her mind... Where is my Mother?
Maybe Brennen was Radzinsky and he locked them out of the Swan, and kept the Failsafe key... lol Not really a theory, but a wondering.
john said...Can I get anyone's input on this or anything that would support this theory?
How about This
lisa said...Ange- Father of Sarah’s baby…. maybe Jack? If the fertility problem is in the sperm, we’ve taken the fertility issues off the island!
Color me impressed, you read them all didn't you. That post was from DURING the show! I am thinking probably not Jack's baby as it is three years later, but it was a good fleeting though huh:D.
capcom Your "contribution" for the day creased me up!
You people are GREAT! Hope everyone enjoys the weekend.
Ange-
Every single one.... even though everyone's always been kind...I always worry about what I post... don't want to sound any more foolish than need be! Though, I guess that's why I'm always behind.... sigh!
Re: Jack being the dad..... I'm thinking post rescue indescretion...not pre.
L.
Jensen has up his final article about Lost for the season. It's mostly about Charlie. He did say though that Damon and Carlton said they wouldn't spill Jack about that stunning, what-the-hell?-they-get-off-the-island-but-the-present-is-now-the-past-and-the-future-is-now-the-present? ending. ''To begin to explain what we meant by it actually takes away from the fun of it,'' says Lindelof of the cliffhanger. ''Hopefully it will start a huge debate in the fan community.'' Adds Cuse: ''We don't want to tell the audience what they're supposed to think. One of the things that's great about Lost is that it's something that you can debate and discuss with your friends afterward, so we don't want to cut off that debate.''
Hafta say I think that's what D&C learned from the P&N fiasco this year. Don't tell the fans that you'll think they'll think you've jumped the shark. Let them figure it out for themselves. We hate being told what to think. Silence is definitely the better route no matter how frustrating the next few months will be. I bet we'll be eagerly awaiting this summer's Comic Con almost or as much as Rachel Blake Comic Con last year.
Here's Jensen's article on Charlie.
Have a great weekend everyone, holiday or not! LoCo's rock!
Lisa,
Maybe you are right. Maybe that is why giving Jack a ride would be bad. Maybe after he got back from the Island, they had an affair and that is how she got pregnant by him.
Never fear sounding foolish here. I do it all the time and Chucklez (can't defend himself, tee hee) is the master... lol
Just Kidding Chuck, looking foreward to creating that rift in time.... lol
I think it is quite possible that christain is alive in the future flash, not only does the new chief not call out jack on acting like he is dead,but neither does his x-wife. Perhaps Christain is imbued with the same healing regeneration mojo that locke and mikhail seem to have. It would make sense if any of it is genetically passed on. Christains grandchild (aaron) was predicted to be very special. Perhaps his death was all a ruse. In the same way that Sun is alienated from her father and he has ties to the island maybe christain does too, remember jack heard him on the intercom in the hydra and they said it didnt work, but later on jack saw that it did work. If alchaholism is a disease it would reason that just as the island healed lockes legs it kept jack from abuzing pills and alchahol, in the same way that charlie found the strength to ressit heroin on the island. Or conversly maybe christain was on the island in the past and was going through a simular withdrawal as jack after leaving. Just as ben said to leave his father in the microbus and it came to be needed in the future, maybe thats why christain told jack not to be a hero cause it would end up bad as his flashes foward have shown us.Perhaps brennan was radzinsky and the key that he had was the failsafe key that he gave to Kelvin, if indeed kelvin isnt brennan, with the way mikhail came back Im surprised more people dont think kelvin is still alive with a flimsy rock to the head and his remains were never found. I think rousseau is still harboring a secret, the way that not much was said between her and ben was very fishy and ben didnt ever say he wasnt alex's father. If rousseaus boat crashed on the island then where is it, we have seen every other craft that has crashed there. Although the finale answered a lot of questions it left a huge 800 lb gorilla in the room as was j. wood was talking about above and thats what is Mittleos bioscience or the others trying to accomplish on the island???I also like how j. wood points out that mikhail killing the two ladies in the looking glass was an exact parralell to mike killing anna lucia and libby and setting free ben. with the added parralell that mike and mikhail are the same name...
i meant acting like he is alive up above and i think it is interesting that mikhail let the looking glass intact and just messed up its jamming potential, and i think that ties to the overall purpose of the island and what widmore or whoever are trying to get out of it. What ever the looking glass was for it still probably can do it i doubt it was just for jamming signals
the fact that mikhail healed on the looking glass prolly points to the fact that you prolly couldnt concieve without a problem there, still technically the island i guess...
One reason I always think kelvin is in play is the part where he trains sayid to torture and tells him it is gonna come in useful one day. That was one of the first overt refences to precognition on the show it tells me that kelvin is playing in the same league as the ring lady if not on the same team...besides he led desmond out of the hatch just in time for the plane to crash, yet the plane was still 1000 miles off course for some reason, perhaps why the pilot got killed right away..
2 costa said…. “I think it is quite possible that …new chief not call out jack on acting like he is dead,but neither does his x-wife.” ….Nor does the pharmacist. I really like the Des saving Charlie changing the future…somethings were set “right’ perhaps, some wrong. Maybe you get to leave the island when it is “right” and that is individualized to everyone. Jack jumped the gun so to speak, without resolving his issues, and his after-island life, is a disaster.
For argument's sake, say each set of mirror twins or pair, has 2 sets of destinies…. the yin to the yang… which ever manifests for one, the other gets the opposite. Jack is now his father, is his father now Jack? We hear Jack accuse him of being a drunk… we’ve yet to see. I wouldn’t be surprised if a clean and sober Christian shows up, and its Jack that can’t see or accept that reality because of what he knew pre-island. And yes, Ded (I think that’s who it was) I know D& C said that Christian was DEAD….by definition…. he did/was… but I like the twist…so I’ll live a little deluded for 9 months. ;-)
Back to Sarah’s baby (maybe my one decent idea). Post Island reunion- be it indescretion, or open resumption of the relationship…say the baby is Jack’. If Jack is the father, and Jack was still imbued with super-island sperm…its one story line that “for sure” carries over, and then we get a woman that, as Juliette asked, is off the island (albeit not “taken there”) but we’d know if it was the sperm, and it began at conception (vs. later on the island).
Have a couple ideas to share:
The casket is Ben because no one would care if he died and the worst punishment Jack could give him would be to take him off the Island.
Also I think Jack is drunk because he isn’t anything back in the world but everyone respected him on the Island he was somebody. But Jack says he will get everyone off the island. Well he gets the 40 plus losties off and the boat is full Jack goes with but the boat can never find the Island again. Because you still have others on the Island who is to say they don’t reopen the looking glass and turn it on. But don’t forget you still have maybe 20 plus that the Others took. Remember the kids and women and men they took especially form the tail section. You all so have all the slaves that the Others had to working on the rocks with Saywer.
Well that’s my two cents. A penny for your thoughts and I'll give you change.
When Jack is on the plane in the beginning, He says" Can I get another one" to the flight attendant.
If you look, there is a man behind him. That is the man I believe to be Jin. You really only see his eyes, but I am about 99% confident it is Jin, and he is sitting next to an Asian woman who may be Sun.
Am I crazy?
Acewebguy: Here is a screencap on DarkUFO from the opening scene that clearly shows the Asian woman is not Sun. It does not show the person sitting next to her, but the other Asian man across the aisle is not Jin. It was probably intentional to put someone who looks somewhat like Sun at first glance there, to make it similar to the beginning of the series.
Like to see Locke take down this wild boar! LOL
what if naomi's people are bad and try to kill everyone there... and the losties and others have to join forces to fight the boat people... that would be a twist!
So many great comments, one and all! Just now catching up on the other blogs, still behind on podcasts...thank God there's months of time ahead.
I don't know what to think anymore, and thinking makes my brain cramp anyway, soo...
Have a happy and patriotic Memorial Day, LoCo's. Let me say thank you to all the veterans in our midst: your service is much appreciated.
God bless America!
Okay, here's a few ideas.
1) We know from Jack's apartment that he's obsessed with finding the island.
2) The newspaper article is so critical that makes him want to suicide.
3) Ben has to be in the casket, because he was Jack's last hope to find the island again. In fact, Jack probably went to the "viewing" to find others who knew Ben, so he could get help finding the island from them. That's why he was so down when he was told no one came. The secret of getting back to the island died with Ben. Kate has given up on it, and is trying to move on.
4) The writers put in two references to Jack's father being alive: the pharmacy and the conversation with the chief. On second viewing, I'm beginning to think his father is alive.
5) Kate is living a free life, which also suggests something is "revised" in the time line.
6) The chief and others don't seem to know about the "island rescue" in Jack's not-so-distant past.
7) The "lying" that Jack refers to may be the island experience itself, and like Desmond he and Kate returned to the "real world" before life-changing events happened (father's death, her capture).
8) Maybe they prevented the worst things from happening, but still remember the island, and know their lives are fake. Like Desmond did as he discovered he couldn't really change things.
9) Kate, for example, might be living with the officer who had her in custody, which would explain her freedom and fear of him.
10) Naiomi's people do massacre everyone on the island, but Jack, Kate, Ben and others simply wake up back on "real world" before the flight happened.
11) This storyline is laid out to Jack somehow before the helicopter lands, and he pulls his group back into the forest. The story resets on the island, with Jack and Ben's people fighting with Naiomi's people. The "spirit" of Jacob (from the black ship) aids in this cause.
12) Who knows what Naiomi's people want from the island, but they are the true "bad guys."
Okay, that's enough ideas...
Well I just sent in my podcast submission and to celebrate I have a new Avi just for my piece of the podcast.
C-ya and Namaste
Big thanks to Scout, Maven, Memphis, anyone I might have missed, for the links. :)
You guys rock!
Hi LoCoS!
Wow, everyone's comments are fantastic! Being able to come here for help is like having a study group in college with a bunch of smart people. It makes it a heck of a lot easier to do the homework!! :-)
Although I suspect that it would be just like TPTB to put someone in the coffin that we don't know yet (and then they get to do the "and you thought you were so smart" dance to themselves when we find out!), I really like the idea of it being Ben (or another Other), and Jack's last chance to find the island. Even though he does cry at the drop of a hat as Memphish reminded me, heheh, I totally can see him crying at the frustration of not being able to get back to the island, with anything but his useless maps and compasses on his apartment floor. The name is a snag requiring anti-K.I.S.S.-principle thinking and theorizing on our part though (until we know more), but we shall see.
And I am so liking, and hoping, and getting attached to the idea that elements of TLE are heading for the island on the freighter! The more it gets mentioned here, the more it makes sense. It can't be coincidence that we learned all about evil freighters in TLE, and here comes one now! ((The goofy coincidences that meant nothing in "Bad Twin" notwithstanding.)) :o)
Great sleuthing everyone!!!!! :-X
Regarding the casket, I'm of the opinion that it was presented in finale to allot us more room for speculation over the hiatus, but as far as it being addressed next season, I cannot be so sure. Still hoping like the rest for TLE2!
the problem with naomi's freighter being the helgus antonius is that ship didnt set sail til 2006 and naomi is there 90 days after the crash which is two or three years earlier. I really cant see it being ben in the coffin, I think he would die rather than leave the island. If ben just wanted to have his people breed he could have had them go concieve off the island then bring the people back on the sub, but Ben is all about shutting down the island from the outside world and not leaving anymore. In order for christain to be alive, i dont think its a timeline thing where he never died in australia, I think it will have to be a christain has ties to the island thing and he either never died to begin with or the island reanimated his body. I wonder what the temple that ben sent the others and richard to will be all about??
it is quite possible given the three year gap that jack doesnt leave the island from the Naomi helicopter, but gets off some other way down the road. If Naomi's people are as evil as we have speculated why not just kill all the people that want to leave the island. There would be a lot less loose ends that way
Just can't stay away from here! LOL
2costa said: I really cant see it being ben in the coffin, I think he would die rather than leave the island.
Also, didn't Jack say that he would kill Ben once Ben saw they were being rescued and were leaving the island. He wanted the satisfaction of Ben seeing them leave just before he kills him. Furthermore, we've sort of been give a new name to speculate on all summer (J...antham). He's someone who had a teenage son, from New York and most likely committed suicide. Doesn't sound like Ben to me.
My 2 cents on the casket...I agree with Maven and others that it is not Ben. I believe that J...ntham is a yet to be seen character from New York with a teenage son. He may be the "four toed statue" of the season 3 finale. He may not even be addressed in Season 4.
That doesn't mean that it's not worth speculating and exploring other options...this is just where I'm leaning today.
Maybe J...ntham is the guy who was in charge of the boat off the island? (Although, that would ruin our hopes for it being the Helgus Antonius and Mittelwerk!)
You guys should check out a Michael Emerson "interview" over at DarkUFO from Best Week Ever. Very funny!
Right 2costa, it could not be the newly 2006-minted Helgus freighter (barring some freaky time thing, oy!), but that doesn't rule out the possibility of the HF searching in vain for the island with other freighters, ever since all the signal changing/jamming, and contact isolation had been started after the Purge. Or, the HF could have been looking for the island ever since Danielle changed The Numbers transmission to her own, if that is the understanding. If so, the HF could have been trying to get to the island to find out what was wrong since then. After all, the Equation project and Numbers transmission was of the utmost importance (according to Professor Hanso) to be carefully and consistently monitored until a solution was found. If the transmission just simply ended, that would cause quite an uproar on the receiving end, and I can imagine some frantic attempts happening to get a handle on the situation by the HF.
Casketman has a teenaged son now? Well, I can very much see Michael killing himself in remorse after how he acted on the island. But I can't see Jack crying over him, without knowing more story, unless he's just crying over the sadness of someone committing suicide, and how the results of crashing on the island led Michael to act the way he did out of necessity. I can see Kate's contempt though, if it's Mike. But why would Mike killing himself make Jack feel even stronger that they have to get back to the island? Maybe to change time/history? Eek.
But I would still not be surprised if Casketman was someone that we have not been introduced to yet.
As for the new name though, I could imagine a rescued Lostaway, maybe Mike, wanting to change his identity after getting off of the island, to avoid the unwanted recognition. Then the initial report of the suicidee's name might reflect the info found at the death site, of the pseudonym. You know, the way newspapers always like to jump the gun on stories without first digging deeper into the facts.
"Kate, for example, might be living with the officer who had her in custody, which would explain her freedom and fear of him."
Edward Mars is dead, he was the guy with the shrapnel who died in Season 1.
The Tailsection has posted a fairly comprehensive translation of Ben's journal entry that is very intruiging, in case anyone wants to check it out. The discussion about it brings out some interesting guesstimations about what it all means.
I guess I'm the only one that's stayed home to do housework and gardening today. :-)
BTW, Jack's wanting to get back to the island is very "Lost Horizon-esque", the way that Conroy tried so desparately to get back to Shangri-La.
That's a good Lost book and a very quick read.
Though some signs point to it, I dont think Casketman was Michael. Seems to me at least Walt would have visited him, and there were no visitors, remember?
Im still leaning towards either Ben or someone we havent met yet.
My guess on the Michael thing is that it COULD be him. Why wouldn't Walt come to see him... because Walt isn't in the real world. The were bam boozled, just like the day on the raft. They drove off, ran out of gas, and someone showed up and took Walt again, but left Michael to drift. He is eventually rescued and has been trying to get back just like Jack.
It's a pastabillity
Hey Ded, have you made any additions to your Lost clay collage recently? Be sure to let us know!
Nice avi too. :-)
No, No more additions. I think that one is done. I have been pondering the idea given to me by you guys here to make a couple that are based around specific episodes. This is something I am contemplating, but don't really have the time to do so right now. To much on the plate so to speak, but everything for me will be calming down in about 7 weeks. So I'll let you know then.
Here's a question: If the original search mission found the 815 and used robotic cameras to positively identify the passengers, then what explanation would they use for the rescue of Jack and company?
maybe this is where Jack's "I'm sick of lying" comes from. Hmmm?
Was everyone rescued given a different story as to how they were never on the plane? (missed the flight, changed their minds, etc.)It would mean that manifests and other info that was used originally would have to prove false...ow, I think I just got a brain cramp!
Maven, I know what you mean-->Just can't stay away!
Nice avi, Ded. I'm really glad you are part of the LoCoPodcast now. The more the merrier!
Wasnt mike form NY york and he has a teenage son(walt). If mike died after wanting to leave the island so bad that could put jack over the edge. Killing ana lucia and libby might be why kate seemed to have no interest in attending. If the were from NY why were they been buried or veiwed in L.A.. I had also had a thought the jamming signal isnt what took down naomis helicopter it. I am assuming the magnatism of the island it what protects it thats why they use the sub to access to go under the barrier.. The call from naomis phone simply showed the frieghter people where the island is, but not how to access it with out destroying their ship. The only vessell i have see make it to the island in one piece are the low tech one like the black rock and desmonds sailboat. Eko's brothers plane was pretty trashed. The hegus Antonius is special equiped with some magnatic type gear presumably to access the island, whick could explain the three year gap between the satalite call and jack flash foward. I think the volcano aspect of the island might explain why the black rock is so far inland. The island could have been growing and changing a lot over the last century
Yeah, now that I'm caught up...everyone's gone!
Doc J on Des Saving Charlie...
."If that's the case, one of those acts of heroism may have altered history, and Flight 815 was found with everyone dead"
Here's a theory., expounding on that from D.Jenson... what if not EVERYONE was found dead by the changes... maybe Jack survived, Kate survived, maybe a few other people... but in the instants that follow Des and Charlie LG "success"- more people "die" as a result.
Jack finds out later about how Des/Charlie/time/space thing works... and his guilt is not leaving anyone behind necessarily/physically... but post island he has the (mis)fortune of seeing in retrospect (if that's possible with this minikowski theory)... that HIS "plan" caused the "deaths" of so many other people... if he can go back and do it again, there are a few key things he can change, and EVERYONE gets rescued...
Kate just doesn't believe the time/space, change your destiny theory,- the one thing Jack KNOWS to be true and can save many- and thinks Jack has lost it (then he does!)
Well I've missed a day and have a lot of catching up to do, but just read J.Wood....gosh I love that blog! I really hopes he gets to continue it next season.
Have a great (and safe) holiday weekend everyone!
Here's another question: I'm not sure Naomi wasn't working for Penny. I'll explain...
Just because Penny wasn't on the boat and did not know Naomi's name doesn't mean Penny did not hire the boat that Naomi flew from. Naomi could have been one of the crew Penny hired, but unless Naomi was the captain or owner of the S&R company, Penny would not know her name, or the names of everyone on the crew.
We already knew Penny wasn't on the boat, Naomi said she'd never met Penny.
Penny was caught off guard, surprised by the signal and quite confused by it all, at least that's how it appeared to me. Maybe if I watch it a few (hundred) more times I'll get a different impression.
However, just because it really is Penny's boat doesn't mean they aren't still the bad guys.
I think Penny would have known what Charlie was talking about, because if Naomi was telling the truth, then the version of events would have played out like this:
The Purpling
Antarctic Station contacts Penny
Penny sends out a team to the island
Penny attempts to contact the island
So when Penny was on that broadcast, she would have known that a team was looking, and even if she didn't know names, she would know that they were there.
But versions of events were probably more like this:
The Purpling
Penny is contacted
**Mysterious Organization** sends out a team to find the island, using evidence stolen from the Widmores or otherwise
Penny attempts to contact the island, perhaps she had been on a line to the island and noticed that whatever was blocking it had stopped.
So in that version of events, Penny was still trying to contact the island, but she doesn't know Naomi. My only question is how would Penny know that there would be something to pick up her signal?
I think Penny knows a *lot* about the island. She knows that it existed over a magnetic anomaly, and that it couldn't be contacted or found through normal means. Where did she get this information?
Hmm.
Yay! I'm caught up! Wonderful theorizing, locos!
Considering Jack's personality, I think there is only way he would allow himself to be rescued while others are left behind. Someone is seriously injured and there is no doctor on the freighter. He would go to save the person's life, then suffer survivor guilt.
I'm guessing that the body in the casket is Michael with an assumed name.
I'm also thinking Future Bearded Druggie Jack is only one of a number of possible futures. I believe some group, maybe Others or someone else, is planting events in the losties' pasts and manipulating the course of events.
But, you know, I really need to watch it again.
There had better be multiple Emmy nominations in the future for Lost!
Amused,
I fully agree. Multiple nominations indeed.
The ones they have must be getting lonely by now... lol
Good Morning LoCos
Looks like everyone is out BBQing or visiting loved ones who have pasted. Hope everyone is enjoying the holiday weekend.
Agreed Lost deserves some emmies nominations this year. Especially Josh Holloway after his performance in The Brig that was awesome acting.
Am I the only one who thought it was odd that whenthe losties left the beach for the radio tower, the ocean was to their right and in the next scene of them trekking to the tower, the ocean was on their left? How can that happen? Am I just dense?
Hey there Loco's,
Season 3 is a wrap;and things ARE getting curioser, and curiouser.(bring on TLCBC).
"It's complicated",was an understatement.Remember the open hatch at the end of season 1? That was our rabbit hole.Life was much simpler then...
acewebguy,and all our new Loco's;
as stated,TLE isn't a must,but it makes Lost much more enjoyable. (A great meal will taste even better with a little seasoning).
It created a Community.
whitefalcon;Casketman...sounds like something Hiro would say.lol.
Great ending.
Fun season three quiz:
http://lost.about.com/library/quiz/bl_season3_quiz.htm?
I got 27.
penny not only didnt know about naomi she also didnt know about the boat
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