Monday, May 14, 2007

The Lost Community Podcast - Episode 24

In this episode, hosts David A Dein and Steve "The Goog" Guglich unpack the episode The Man Behind the Curtain. Along with a brand new episode recap feature by TLC poster Dennis and an intriguing summation by Dedjezter, we also invited special guest Cliff Ravenscraft of GSPN.tv. Along the way we complain about Kate, David talks about his love for DB Sweeney who isn't even in the episode,and we present a wacky theory that's so wacky, well.. give it a listen.

Join in the fun yourself by calling our listener line at 732-564-4763 or by sending an e-mail to TLCPodcast@gmail.com.

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189 comments:

Dennis said...

I just want to say THANK YOU David and Steve for all your hard work on our podcasts!

You guys do a great job every week, and you are always a lot of fun!

We are proud to have you here at TheLostCommunity.com!

DeDJeZTeR said...

Hey guys just listening now.

Just wanted to say... In the original Apollo Bar Episode, When Kate is locked in the pantry, she takes the Apollo bars from a copper colored Dharma tin that has the Logo on it. I think they are made by Dharma, but labeled differently.

engineer27 said...

DeD...great comments, but you would be easier to hear and understand with the background music bed a bit lower

Dennis said...

For the record, I did not record my recap during a rave ;)

Dennis said...

This is a repost from the last thread...


When I was working on my recap, I listened to the audio of the orientation video very closely, and there were some interesting things that I missed before. Here is the transcript of what I could hear:

Welcome to the Island. For your own comfort and safety, we ask that you stay within the confines of your new living quarters. Our barracks are surrounded by a high-frequency sonar fence, to protect us from the island's abundant and diverse wildlife.

You are now a member of the Dharma Initiative < inaudible >

Every morning, you will be given a new code which will allow you to cross outside the fences, if you so desire.

There are properties on this island that exist no where else on earth. Our mission is to study these properties, for the benefit of mankind, and the advancement of world peace.

Most of you will be working on the mainland. Should you be assigned to zoological studies, the Pala ferry will carry you to a drop site.

Here you will enjoy all the common amenities of a modern urban lifestyle.

To ensure your children's safety, < inaudible > we offer a < inaudible >

< inaudible > Dharma Initiative

DeDJeZTeR said...

Engineer,
Yeah I know. It sounded great in Audacity, but transferred to MP3, it seemed much louder in the background. I haven't goten to that part yet, so I don't know how it sounds on here.

The other guy on the Pod cast with Steve and Dave, Can't think of his name right now. I agree with him on the Monster is not the visions, but I theory varies a bit.

DeDJeZTeR said...

Another thing I have to say real quick. I don't think it is Atlantis. Think about this. If you were a cicilization that had Roman and greek technology at the same tme that they did, but were half a world away, and never subjected to the downfall of those civilizations. As in the roman world going down and being overrun by people who were not as advanced as themselves. Now on this Island the technology was never subdued and they were able to advance far beyond what the romans level was.

DeDJeZTeR said...

Oh yeah, it was also my first time trying to do the background music myself. I will do better naxt time... lol

DeDJeZTeR said...

Has anyone tried to decipher my whispers yet... lol

Sorry about the traffic noise also... lol ... I guess next time I need to record only at night.

DeDJeZTeR said...

David,
I liked the thoughts on the ONE that can talk to the Island. The problem isn't loosing the ability to talk to Jacob, like you said, Man is flawed and eventually will wield the power of Jacob for his gain.

SO a new One is needed to take his place.

Maybe Gahd can't get it right... lol
He keeps trying the same experiment and keeps getting the same results... lol ... does that make Gahd Crazy?

DeDJeZTeR said...

Ha ha, A note on Kate.
All we as the fans ever do is talk about how no one tells anyone anything. The minute thate Kate goes and tells someone something. She becomes a tattle tail... lol I just found this funny... sorry.

engineer27 said...

DJ:
actually, that is really funny. Don't apologize.

memphish said...

I haven't deciphered Ded's whispers, but I do have a link to whisper transcript from the whispers when Ben sees his mom at the sonic fence.

engineer27 said...

FYI, if you keep that avatar, you might have to change your screen name to "dedLocke"

(;->

engineer27 said...

memphish,

thanks for the link. 'bout time you woke up %)

Dennis said...

DeDJeZTeR said... Has anyone tried to decipher my whispers yet... lol

"Only jokers think it's purgatory?"

:)

Passafist said...

Actually DED I decifered your Whispers while I was editing the show! But I figured I have the fancy software, let somebody else figure it out!!!

Nobody decifered the insane german ramblings I designed into the intro a few podcasts ago. I even forget what it means!!

Amused2bHere said...

'Morning, all!

Gonna go listen to the podcast now...bbl!

memphish said...

Engineer27, I was waiting on a new post and had a life this morning. Shocking I know.

In further LOST news, at the ABC Upfronts according to TV Squad they announced LOST would air Wednesdays but they haven't set the time slot.

Codysmom said...

Good morning!! Oh Boy, new podcast!!! I've been wondering about the whispers from TMBTC; thanks, memphish... be back later..

engineer27 said...

I'm not sure about the whole "Juliet has a warm heart" stuff. I mean, she killed Pickett. And she asked Jack to kill Ben.

And Sawyer certainly didn't see her that way when she had the gun at Kate's head.

Maybe we'll see more in 2 weeks.

maven said...

Morning all! Yea! I new podcast...listening to it now. Great recap, Dennis!

Codysmom said...

dennis, you sound great!

Codysmom said...

I like your use of actual audio from the episode...

Dennis said...

Thanks everyone :)


My notes from the podcast:

• Richard Alpert remembering birthdays

I think the whole comment about birthdays is related to the women not being able to give birth on the island, so there are no new birthdays. I think the comment was a snide one, because Richard doesn't support Ben's research on the fertility problems.


Danielle => Dannie => Annie?

I don't think this could really be the case, but here's how it "could" be possible, maybe...

When Annie give Ben the wooden dolls, it's a birthday present, but also a going away present, because her family is leaving the island.

Many years later, Danielle learns French, becomes part of a scientific expedition, crashes on the same island she lived on as a kid, but she doesn't recognize Ben from that long ago(?).

We will find out that Danielle is Annie when she whips out her matching wooden doll in the season finale!

Or not.


• Shakers are not Amish

The Shakers are not like the Amish. The Amish are against modern technology. The Shakers were at the cutting edge of technology for their time. There is a Shaker village here in Kentucky, and when you visit, it shows how things were 100 years ago, so people are in "costume". But, if they were still around, they would use modern technology, and dress like you or me.



• Horace and the Arrow Station

Here is the screen cap of Horace's Arrow jumpsuit

You can also see Mike the Pearl Technician, in this screen cap.


• He walks among us, but he is not one of us

That would be AWESOME if Ben had the same tattoo as Jack, and we have a Ben flashback where he visits Bai-Ling in the tattoo station!


• Deaths that are coming

Maybe the purge will fulfill the deaths that we heard were coming before the end of the season?

DeDJeZTeR said...

Dennis,
You were very close.

"Only CHUCKLEZ think it's Purgatory. Keep up the good fight." ... lol

memphish said...

I'm willing to go with Chucklez on the purgatory thing. I won't be happy if TPTB lied for 5 years about it, but I still think Purgatory is a perfectly acceptable construct.

maven said...

Re Podcast: Definitely one shouldn't go hiking when 7 months pregnant. Also, since Ben's birthday is Dec. 22...It was sure a nice late Dec. day in Portland to go hiking, wasn't it? Global warming?

I'm not so sure that Daniel=Annie. Even though the age thing is not right...Annie sure has a lot of freckles ala Kate! LOL I think she did get off the island and agree the birthday dolls were kinda going away gifts, too.

Agree with your guest that Smokey doesn't manifest itself in actual things...it just gets you to think about them and visualize them to yourselves. The only exception would be Kate's horse (which Sawyer also saw). I think it was an actual island horse (there were horses at the Flame Station).

Good point! Why isn't Apollo Bars Dharma Bars? Everything else is Dharma stuff.

Dennis said...

• More about the Shakers

The Others are kind of living like the Shakers in one respect - they are not able to reproduce. The Shakers were strict belivers in celibacy, and had to maintain thier number through bringing in new people, and by adoption.

We have already seen the Others don't belive in celibacy, yet they are still not able to reproduce because of something on the island. Like the Shakers, they have to bring in new members, like Ben has done with most of his people, and "adoption", like Ben did with Alex.

engineer27 said...

The Arrow station was captioned on the Blast Door Map as a possible staging area.

That seems consistent with the function of the "Welcoming Committee."

engineer27 said...

Uh-oh. Bad news everyone:

Tour Update

Codysmom said...

OMG, engineer27.... no New Year's Eve fireworks?!?!?!?

Erich said...

Of note: The ABC fall line-up for next season does not include The George Lopez Show. Sorry David, I guess that means your master plan will have to be put on hold...

A moment of silence, perhaps?

Codysmom said...

cryin' my eyes out about george lopez.....NOT!! Seriously, never seen it and don't know anyone who watches it...

long podcast! I've gotten thru the first half... my reaction so far:

I tend to agree that there will be less filler episodes with the 3-year, 16 episode plan. I totally agree to put it back to Wed. nite at 8!!

Horace Goodspeed was played by Doug Hutchison who also played Percy Wetmore in the Green Mile (the deputy we loved to hate-he was the one who didn't soak the cap of the electric chair apparatus and made that guy's death even more awful). Interesting casting here, since Ben is the weeny we love to hate on Lost.

I also thought hiking at 7 months pregnant was a little weird... and yes, that would make Roger more guilty of the mother's death than Ben. Back in the hippy days, having a premature baby at 7 months(especially a boy) who survives and thrives would have been quite unusual, I think.

I like the theory that Alpert is originally from the Black Rock. I don't know about crewman, though. I was looking at an old site that says the Black Rock was either a slaver ship OR a ship that transported CRIMINALS (a brig), which means Alpert and his crew could be criminals from long ago.

I don't think Danielle is Annie.

capcom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
capcom said...

Hi All,

I'm very upset that someone's smallness would discourage our Podcast Guys from doing their fun thing! But I guess we have to remember that it's a big world out there in the global-net-universe, and there will always be someone who thinks it's fun to make someone else feel bad. Don't take it seriously you guys, you know that here at TLC we look forward to your show! And don't we ask for it when it doesn't come out?! :o) And sorry that you are having family problems and that the bad critics hit the raw spot. You're in our prayers. XO

I have not listened to the podcast yet, because of these dang McAfee update problems I'm having, but someone mentioned Atlantis in their post. Albeit we don't know for sure where the island is, but if it's in the South Pacific and it was the leftovers of an ancient lost island/continent, wouldn't it be more likely to be Lemuria/Mu which lore is "set" in the Pacific? Isn't Atlantis in/near the Atlantic ocean? Anyway, sorry if someone mentioned this on the podcast.

I don't feel bad towards TPTB if they told us the wrong thing about purgatory. I mean, I feel sorry for them that there are so many thousands of people trying to crack their story, and coming up with a zillion guesses every week to try and second-guess their plots and ideas! And why should they give it away anyway? But really, purgatory would be boring, so I hope that they're more creative than that.

Thanks for the transcripts Dennis. Do you think that the garbled parts are purposely garbled like the goofy vids and recording during the TLE?

Horace is also stretchmeister-liver-eating-Toomy in the X-Files.

Dennis said...

capcom said... Thanks for the transcripts Dennis. Do you think that the garbled parts are purposely garbled like the goofy vids and recording during the TLE?

The parts I marked as < inaudible > are sections of the video that I can tell the video is saying something, but someone else is talking over it (Roger, Annie, etc).

memphish said...

Capcom, I heard another interesting Atlantis idea on LOSTCasts too. The idea was that even though Atlantis was destroyed, Atlanteans survived because they were out of town on business and they might have started over on the Island.

Erich said...

Has anyone played the whispers backwards (if there's even enough to listen to). They remind me of the way Walt spoke backwards when he appeared to Shannon.

What if Walt was projecting to Shannon while he was in captivity, and the other whispers are also children (or people in general) who are "special" and are having their powers harnessed for some nefarious purpose, who are trying to communicate with the "outside world." Could Jacob's plea for help be related?

What if Jacob is a "special" person who's having his power harnessed (in some underground laboratory or something) in a similar way? Maybe he's turning to Locke for help because Ben is too busy wielding power to pay attention.

What if these captive "special" people are actually the source of the island's power?

I think I just blew my mind...

Amused2bHere said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Amused2bHere said...

LOL Memphish your new avatar cracks me up!

Erich said...

I gotta say I'm digging what Cliff's shoveling in this podcast...

I like the idea that the manifestations and Smokey are separate. I think we were supposed to believe they were one and the same, but the evidence he presents (Ben seeing his mother within the sonic fence) convinces me.

I think he's almost right about why Ben didn't shoot Locke a second time, but I think what really happened is: Ben only shot once because he was so shocked by what Jacob said to Locke, and so wasn't thinking straight, NOT because he wanted to let Locke live.

Almost done with the cast. Wacky theory coming up. Can't wait!

Erich said...

One more thought:

Based on all the speculation about Jacob, and Smokey, and the healing and all the weird stuff on the island, I think we can sum up all the mysteries of Lost with one question:

What is the source of the island's power?

Good thing we'll only have to wait til 2010 for an answer...

Codysmom said...

Erich said...

What if Walt was projecting to Shannon while he was in captivity, and the other whispers are also children (or people in general) who are "special" and are having their powers harnessed for some nefarious purpose, who are trying to communicate with the "outside world." Could Jacob's plea for help be related?

What if Jacob is a "special" person who's having his power harnessed (in some underground laboratory or something) in a similar way? Maybe he's turning to Locke for help because Ben is too busy wielding power to pay attention.

What if these captive "special" people are actually the source of the island's power?

I LOVE it!!

I've been working on a theory that Alpert (not Ben) is the man behind the curtain and this could fit in!

I'll wait for your theory...

capcom said...

Nice avi Memphish! It should also say that whiny crybaby dads should turn around and go home. Too bad the DI didn't utilize Room 23 on Roger, if they had it back then!

And interesting item about Atlantis too. I read a book on Mu/Lemuria about 100 years ago, and for some reason they migrated to the nearby continents. Maybe because they knew that the end of their island was comming? I can't remember for sure. I also can't remember if the book said how many toes Lemurians had. :o)

Codysmom said...

I love both your avi's, memphish and capcom!!

I keep thinking of when somebody asked Michael if he ever noticed Walt being in a place they shouldn't be (or something like that)... was it Ms. Clugh?

capcom said...

Thanks Codysmom. :o) I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeally hope that we get some info about Walt and what they did with him, or how they wanted to use him, in the next season! If they just let that one drop, I will be very disappointed, because for crying out loud, almost the entire second season revolved around Walt's capture. Even things that weren't directly related to it, were somehow indirectly affected by it. :-p

Codysmom said...

Yes, I think Walt is very important in the show and I don't think they'll drop it, although I don't think we'll hear anything more about him this year. I'm working on my theory now....

bigdog said...

can you imagine how much older walt will look if they bring him back. we havent seen him in almost two years.

Erich said...

codysmom: thanks! It hadn't occurred to me before I heard the whispers and they sounded like they were running backwards.

Alpert has to be more than just a really dedicated follower of whoever the Others' leader is at the moment. He very well could be using Ben to his advantage, maybe by taking the focus off himself.

If Walt was projecting, I wonder why he wasn't asking for help... though he did say they shouldn't "push the button." Any chance the button, and the energy it released was generated by the captive "specials"? Could the electromagnetism have been a side effect of their mental power? Maybe Walt thought if the button wasn't pushed, it would "blow the lid" (for reals!) off the operation...

I have another question: if the Others are/were so anti-technology, how are they able to use something like Room 23? Is that why they brought in outside recruits? To fill a skills gap?

Erich said...

I'm starting to dig this "harnessed mental energy as the source of the island's power" theory...

It would fit in with that Flash comic Walt was reading, and the idea of "tests."

C'mon everyone, shoot some holes in it so I can rebuild!

Erich said...

Hey bigdog! Thanks for coming over to comment on our 24 post!

scoutpost said...

bigdog said...can you imagine how much older walt will look if they bring him back. we havent seen him in almost two years.

And how ironic that Walt will have aged so much when people on the island like Richard are seemingly not aging at all! He's the anti-Richard.

Still listening to the podcast, because I keep getting interrupted- so will BBL (hopefully).

Codysmom said...

I'm not going to shoot holes in it.. I like it.

Fenris also once was talking about the recruits being brought to the island because of their premonition skills... this was back on may 5th. I wrote in my notes then... Even more interesting would be if their subconcious ability to make what they envision become reality is what the Others are interested in..

erich, maybe the electomagnetism enhances their mental powers?

capcom said...

Very interesting idea about the reason that Walt did not want them to push the button, Erich! That has always confused me, since I was thinking in terms of it being better for everyone if the button WAS pushed. That opens up my head to a different perspective. I LOVE you guys! You always do that to me! Seriously, I couldn't watch this show without you all. :-) Well, I could watch it, but I would not know WTH was going on. :o)

capcom said...

Yes, I want to see them explain all that Scoutpost!! Haha! "Uh, well, Richard didn't age because.....and, em, Walt did age because...." This will be good. Heehee.

Codysmom said...

I also wrote in my notes back on May 5th

Maybe he wanted Walt because he knew he has this special ability to make visions become reality, but decided he was "more than they could handle" because Walt wouldn't envision what Ben wanted, even after trying to break him in room 23. Walt's relationship with Michael was getting stronger and maybe that's why they couldn't break him. It would be interesting if they purposely crashed flight 815 just for Walt and others who have serious daddy-issues because these are the ones they think they'll be able to bring to their fold. Just like those without strong religious or family ties are easier to get sucked into a cult.

Codysmom said...

Maybe being in room 23 for toooooo long ages a person!! Or, how about this? Alpert sucks the youth out of the kids and takes it for himself... whaa haa haa

Erich said...

Is it possible for electromagnetism to occur naturally?

If so, that may be the chief "property" of the island...and one that enhances mental abilities.

If not, it could be powered by the "specials."

The only problem with this line of thinking I can think if is that it probably requires advanced technology to harness this power, which doesn't seem to jive with the idea of an ancient civilization. It might be explained if you add time travel, but that moves us away from simplicity, and I think for a theory to really work you have to be able to distill it fairly simply.

I like the idea (mentioned in passing on the podcast) that the Others are heading towards some ancient city hidden on the island...wouldn't that be a great reveal for the final shot of the finale! Maybe it's underground (and populated with imprisoned psychics/telekinetics!).

capcom said...

Oh man Codysmom, there ya go!! Wouldn't be the first energy-suckin' guy I ever met in my life though! :o)

capcom said...

Good question Erich. Magnetism can certainly occur naturally, but can you have electromagnetism without spinning the magnet to creat the electrical force? Maybe that's what the Big Thing behind the concrete wall did in the Swan?! Maybe it spun some kind of 'core' of the magnetic ore in the middle of the island.

Codysmom said...

LOL, capcom!!!!!

OK, craziest theory ever:

Walt is Jacob!

capcom said...

Now that could certainly avoid the age problem!!! :o)

Erich said...

Hmmm... if the button and the electromangetism were involved with the "Specials" (I like making a name for them, even if they don't exist), maybe Desmond's ability to see the future was transferred from a Special whose ability is to see the future.

Could The Incident have been a Special revolt, followed by the addition of the button to release the energy and keep them just weak enough to stay docile.

Another piece of (highly speculative) "evidence" for a group of captive underground Specials: Didn't the timer hieroglyphs translate to "underworld"?

capcom said...

I would like to think that whomever the DI was using for their experiments revolted in some way, for sure. And I was hoping that the Hostiles would have been those people. I like your name the Specials, it fits!

I got the feeling that The Incident was related to' or caused by' the DI trying to harness the forces of the island, which got out of their control once they tried to rein it in for their purposes and uses. But, it could also have been initiated by the Specials, for sure. Maybe the Specials blew it up with their minds while they were hooked up to The Force Thingy?

Erich said...

capcom: I've been thinking the Incident (whatever it was) was the thing that made the Hostiles decide to take out DHARMA—that it so damaged the "purity" of the island they felt they had no choice but to wipe out the outsiders.

Codysmom said...

I'm actually thinking the opposite is true, erich; that the hostiles are former Dharma (either kicked out or left) who didn't agree with the "whimpy" idea of Hanso that you couldn't use human guinea pigs... Sooo, they formed Mittlos Bioscience and recruited people like Juliet who were so excited to continue their questionably legal/moral research that they chugged their OJ.

bigdog said...

erich - your welcome. got to support the fellow Locos.

codysmom - Walt is Jacob

not so crazy to me. walt has shown more "special" powers than anyone else on the island. and had them before he got to the island

also wasnt mike hit by a car like juliets husband. and his mom died from a blood virus. maybe they were trying to take walt for a long time.

bigdog said...

we understand know that ben will lie all the time. mike & walt never left the island and are probable being held by the security lady.

Administrator said...

I am a fan of David A. Dein and Steve "The Goog" Guglich!

Erich said...

codysmom: iiiinnnnnnteresting! I hadn't thought about the Incident/Others from that perspective. You bring up a good point/question: How does the technologically advanced Mittelos Bioscience jive with the "return to nature/trust the island" feel of the Others?

That could work well with the Specials theory.

I still think there's got to be someone with a LOT of money financing the Others that's not Hanso. I'd been thinking Widmore was Jacob, but maybe HE's the Man Behind the Curtain, at least financially...

Erich said...

admin: aren't we all! They did a great job this week (as they do every week!)

scoutpost said...

Ok, FINALLY finished listening to the podcast. I have to say I really like Passafist's wacky theory! I have always thought that most theories have a difficult time tying in all the aspects of the island (esp merging the spiritual and the scientific), but I think his does it. I'm hashing it all out in my head. The only problem I have with it, is what the Goog said, and that it is probably a bit too supernatural considering what TPTB have said before. But I'm finding it fascinating nonetheless. Thanks for the podcast you guys- great job!!!

Codysmom said...

Erich said....
How does the technologically advanced Mittelos Bioscience jive with the "return to nature/trust the island" feel of the Others?

The only thing I can think of is that the special properties of the island is the force that helps their research (and the Specials). Other than that, the "return to nature/trust the island" is bunk. They all took over Otherville with it's "amenities" as soon as they made a nice pile of dead Dharmas in the ditch, didn't they?

memphish said...

Interesting stuff this afternoon.

Erich, I don't think the whispers in TMBTC are backwards talking. I think people would have figured that out pretty fast like the other backwards talking we've had this season. There must be someone watching the episode backwards as fast as they've been finding these things.

I agree that the whispers are related to the Hostiles and I think specifically to Jacob. I'm still leaning along the Wrinkle in Time theory that these people are so old they have a hard time being heard and seen.

Be sure and read that link to the whispers I posted earlier though. One of them says to the vision of Ben's mother "tell him you're his mother," so the idea that Richard is The Man Behind the Curtain is still very in play IMO. I don't understand why he needs Ben and/or Locke though.

Here's an idea, Jacob was Magnus Hanso but because of something, the Island, passing through the Bermuda triangle, something else, he is now part human and part whatever it is that Alpert is, Atlantean, Mu-ite, whatever. Because of this dual nature, Jacob has the power of Alpert but can only communicate to the right sort of human. Ben and Locke are that right sort kind of like Charles Wallace again in A Wrinkle in Time. Who knows. Beats me. :)

I wonder when they instituted Room 23. Someone earlier raised a good point about why not stick Roger in Room 23. I guess Room 23 is a post-purge "improvement."

Erich said...

codysmom said: "Other than that, the "return to nature/trust the island" is bunk. [The Others] all took over Otherville with it's "amenities" as soon as they made a nice pile of dead Dharmas in the ditch, didn't they?"

Good point, and one that might show how Ben is just a figurehead. He didn't come with any real scientific/technological expertise. As far as I can tell, his only qualification for leadership is that he saw, and spoke to, the vision of his mother and can speak to Jacob.

I could see a scenario where Alpert is running things and letting Ben (and the others) think Jacob is their true, spiritual, leader, but really the group is subtly being led, through Alpert, by an outside force (perhaps the mysterious Mittelos financier?)

If Locke can commune with the island, maybe the power of the island, or the Specials (see my crazy posts above), are guiding him to a place where he can subvert the secret plans of Mittelos/Others and truly return the island to its state of purity/free the underground captives (I warned you it was crazy!).

Erich said...

Memphish: I could be wrong about the backwards talking. I listened to some of the captured audio and wasn't 100% convinced they said what they said they said (if you follow).

I definitely like the idea of the whispers being people so old they no longer exist corporeally. I thought something along those lines right after the episode (it's way back in the first hundreds of posts for TMBTC).

If the island can give people a kind of immortality, it sets up that scenario.

I still wonder why some weird stuff happens as voices, and some happen as visions. Is it possible the right person could "see" the owner of the disembodied voice if it's message were meant for them? That is, Ben saw and heard his mother because her message was meant for him, but otherwise all you hear are voices (most of which are difficult to understand).

memphish said...

Maybe the whisperers are so old they can't hear themselves (like my father-in-law) so they don't realize they are loud enough for us to hear something, but not loud enough to understand what the heck they are saying? :D

Erich said...

Hmmm...maybe!

Codysmom said...

erich said...
could see a scenario where Alpert is running things and letting Ben (and the others) think Jacob is their true, spiritual, leader, but really the group is subtly being led, through Alpert, by an outside force (perhaps the mysterious Mittelos financier?)

If Locke can commune with the island, maybe the power of the island, or the Specials (see my crazy posts above), are guiding him to a place where he can subvert the secret plans of Mittelos/Others and truly return the island to its state of purity/free the underground captives (I warned you it was crazy!).

I LOVE it!! (and not crazy)

Melissa_Lossa said...

Hi, everyone!

I am so sorry that I have not been around more lately - I got hit hard at work yesterday, and I haven't had time to catch my breath yet.

If anyone has questions/comments/suggestions pertaining to the book club, please e-mail me at piper.emily@gmail.com. That way, I'll be sure to get it.

I apologize for not being a very attentive leader over the last couple of days. I did take a suggestion that I just saw on the last thread, and made a LIstmania List on Amazon of all of the books. It's called The Lost Community Book Club.

Hopefully, I'll be back in the next day or two. Take care!

Codysmom said...

hi, melissa!

engineer27 said...

Ben's offer to Juliet in "One of Us" was that Jacob would heal Rachel's cancer.

If true, it implies that Jacob has incredible power to control events off of the island, not just on it.

With that sort of power, a powerful "silent partner" financier would not be necessary. Needed funds would just "appear" when needed.

Codysmom said...

engineer, I always thought Ben was lying to Juliet about Rachel's cancer coming back (just to get her to stay).

memphish said...

I agree codysmom that I think Ben was lying about Rachel's cancer, but I wonder why Juliet thought Jacob could cure off-Island cancer. We need more Room 23 exposure I think. Maybe the reason everyone was shocked/stunned that Ben was taking Locke to Jacob is because they thought he was off-Island.

Ange said...

erich said...Is it possible for electromagnetism to occur naturally?

Well, it is what paranormal researchers look for when they are on "ghost hunts". *shrug*

Also, the human brain produces a natural electrical current and emits a magnetic field. *double shrug*

memphish said...

I read this in The Hero With a Thousand Faces today.

. . . [O]ne may invent a false, finally unjustified, image of oneself as an exceptional phenomenom in the world, not guilty as others are, but justified in one's inevitable sinning because one represents the good. Such self-righteousness leads to a misunderstanding, not only of oneself but of the nature of both man and the cosmos.

Sound like anyone you've heard of? :)

Codysmom said...

J. Just
A. A
C. Collection
O. Of
B. Brains

Ange said...

memphish said...Maybe the reason everyone was shocked/stunned that Ben was taking Locke to Jacob is because they thought he was off-Island.

It seems like Alex at least knew what to expect (she gave Locke the gun). Maybe Ben has taken people to Jacob before and they haven't come back?

P.S. I just had to make one post with my crazy Room 23 headache-maker avatar that Fenris made. :D

Codysmom said...

Ange, people with epilepsy might have a seizure!!!!!

memphish said...

Crazy avatar Ange. I have to say, amused2behere's still creeps me out too. The only thing that would be scarier would be if it said "help me" everytime I turned around.

Codysmom said...

J. Just
A. Alpert
C. Conning
O. Ol'
B. Ben

sorry, these are fun....

Ange said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
maven said...

Good afternoon all!

All the new avatars are great. Kudos to all you creative people!

Love all the theories discussed all afternoon. I agree that Alpert and his group (somehow tied into the Black Rock crew) are behind everything...picking out "Specials" who can commune with the island and harness it's powers. They "put up" with the Dharma people when they first got to the island thinking they were serving mankind and were in harmony with the island. But things began to sour. Dharma might have begun "taking" things from the island...maybe mining some gems (remember the Gemologist). So manipulating Ben into joining them against DI because he was Special (seeing his mother), they got rid of the "bad" Dharma people. Don't know why they took over Dharmatown if they were anti-technology. But Ben began to lose his grip on the island (getting cancer and not able to deal with the outside world encroaching). He got rid of Walt, who he saw as a potential threat to his control of "his people". Seeing Ben faltering, the original "natives" looked to another Special...Locke.

ib4uc said...

Hey locos. I like the idea that Walt is Jacob, or his "special" ability is what powers Jacob. The Island of Specials -- all brought there so Jacob can grow. But why would he say "help me"? Maybe Ben is keeping him trapped against his will.

Going to listen to the poscast...

ib4uc said...

Ooooh Maven, just read your comment. I like it. That would explain why Ben keeps saying he's good (maybe).

maven said...

ib4uc: Yes! Ben's probably been just as brainwashed as though he was in Room 23! He began to see Dharma as bad (except maybe Horace and Annie...definitely his father), and the Hostiles as "good".

maven said...

Guess the ABC PTB are waiting to see what fails before announcing a LOST timeslot. Their new schedule came out today with no mention of possible LOST timeslots. I gather this makes for some more flexibility and doesn't lock them into anything. Guess we'll have to learn patience! LOL

ib4uc said...

maven... there's so much crap on TV nowadays so they are probably waiting. No George Lopez? I vote they move it back to 8:00 or 9:00. And I'd like to say I wouldn't mind seeing reruns from S3 over the long break. We could still get our Lost fix.

maven said...

ib4uc: I read that George Lopez was pretty pissed off that he was cancelled! He can't believe a Caveman show was picked up and he wasn't (the Caveman from the Geico commercials. LOL)

I don't know about the 8:00 pm time period. LOST has gotten pretty un-family friendly for that time period. I like a 9:00 time.

ib4uc said...

Wait, the Caveman got his own show? I'm not trying to be stupid, but really? I hope you're kidding. If not, it goes back to my comment about a lot of crap on TV.

maven said...

ib4uc: It's true! LOL

maven said...

Here's the link to the ABC Fall Schedule Announcement.

memphish said...

Maven, I read that the network head said it was looking at 8 pm or 9 pm for LOST. I live in the Central time zone, so if it goes 8 pm/7 Central, I'll have to record and watch about an hour later. 7-8 is a family hour in our household, and LOST is not 8-year-old friendly. In fact, I didn't start watching until Season 2 for that reason.

I'm already stressing that next week will start at 8 Central. I will more than likely have to chase playback because my son will already be out of school so the 8 pm bedtime will be out the window. My perfect start time would be 8:30 pm Central. Then Chris from the podcast could do an immediate televised podcast from 9:30-10:00 pm. Sometimes he'd have TPTB, sometimes talent, sometimes fans. I should write them.

maven said...

Here's the ABC Caveman site. LOL

chucklez3 said...

okay, a few questions / comments.

1. "...jokers....purgatory"...eh, don't really care what anyone "thinks" of my theory. because i'm ballsy enough to differ from the rest. which brings me to.....

2. why would purgatory be "boring"???? i don't see that. actually, it IS in fact....creative. if they had not said "no", everyone would've been "accepting" to the possibility. And here comes point #3.....

3. How often has PURGATORY been in a television show as a PART OF A PLOT???? Now......how often have we seen "super-human powers"???? the powers (or human mutation / advancement / evolution) thing has been done a million times. purgatory (imho) would be fairly "refreshing".

now, with all that said, i'm not saying the show (in and of itself) is about purgatory. However, i think purgatory (or the "hints" of it) is a prominent PART of the story. so, instead of poking "fun" at the "joker", how about a little "open-mindedness".

And again......time-travel, four-toed statues of darwin's theory of evolution, telekinesis, smoke monsters that make fists and toss people around like cartoons and passenger planes flying at 2000 feet over the pacific instead of 30,000 feet is acceptable "logic"????

and again.....for so much of the show to be based on "religion" and for so many of us to be "religious", why is it so "EASY" to accept the science-fiction and darwinism over christian overtones???

not being "defensive" or trying to spark anything. just curious why everyone "shuns" my theory just because the producers "SAID" the show "wasn't ABOUT purgatory".

sheesh.

;)

chucklez3 said...

and i don't mean the show is "based" on religion, but that there are a lot of religious aspects. and as for "us", i don't mean we're all open to christianity or religion in general. just that we all have seen and accepted the fact that the show demonstrates such aspects and (at least) SOME of us are open to religion, if not, practitioners of it enough to at least "accept" it as a possible "aspect" of the show.

chucklez3 said...

*tucks soapbox back under arm and scurries back under the table*

chucklez3 said...

P.S. thanks Memphish.

memphish said...

No problem Chucklez. Well stated. See you tomorrow night I'm sure to see if Charlie punches his ticket to elsewhere.

capcom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chucklez3 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chucklez3 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chucklez3 said...

on our posts.....it has a date and time stamp.....

is it really necessary to have the "seconds" on there, since it never registers them??

hmmmmmm.......

capcom said...

OK, now I'm up in the air about the Specials vs. the Hostiles, Erich and Codysmom. But it does seem strange that the Hostiles purged the DI, and then took over everything of theirs and are living in like fashion. The nerve. Maybe that's why Locke called them hypocrites, because he could sense that?

On the subject of purgatory, if someone chooses to think that purgatory is boring, that's their choice. Personally, I'm not Catholic, so purgatory means absolutely nothing to me. And I don't need to poke fun at anyone else's theories just because they don't fly with me just yet. I'm open to anything happening whether it's scifi, superdupernatural, or whatever, as long as TPTB make it look good on my TV. The lines of demarcation of theories for me lay simply in what theory happens to appeal to me at the moment that it penetrates my addled brain cells. :o) There are plenty of people who lay aside the purgatory theory just because it's just not on top of their list of preferred possiblities that's all, not just because TPTB said it's not true. I think that they SHOULD deny it, if that is what they chose to write in the first place, and it's our own fault for bugging them about it and forcing them into a corner, IMNSHO. :-)

chucklez3 said...

oh and anyone want my apollo bar???

chucklez3 said...

read my post closely capcom. i wasn't trying to "incite" anything. i didn't say you COULDN'T have an opinion. if you read it, i'm defending MINE!! that's all.

and at what point did i make my post about YOU???

it was an "open letter" to the board in general. sheesh.

and again, i say......it's in defense of allowing ME to have MY opinion based on the plausibility of the things revealed on the show.

capcom said...

No worries Chuck, I didn't say you were inciting anything, I was just posting my thoughts and retorts like everyone else. :o) You know, like a debating team. And my previous posted thoughts mentioned that I think if purgatory is "The Big Answer", at this point, that seems boring to me (see your #2), irrespective of what TPTB have said about it.

I'm just volleying the ball of conversation to the other side of the court here, no biggie.

LostIt said...

J. Just
A. A
C. Collection
O. Of
B. Brains



LOL, is that what was in those jars? Abby Normal perhaps?

LostIt said...

Speaking of the Caveman, didn't Ted Sprague (the radioactive guy) on Heroes look like the Caveman?

capcom said...

LOL Lostit, yes, he did!!! :-D

chucklez3 said...

eh....that show will last as long as "dinosaurs" did.

chucklez3 said...

"not tha momma"!

i'd rather see a "captain caveman" show. hahahaha. (for those old enough to know what i mean)

maven said...

lostit said: Speaking of the Caveman, didn't Ted Sprague (the radioactive guy) on Heroes look like the Caveman?

I thought the same thing! LOL One would think that "Caveman" is just a one joke show and a short one at that (about the length of a commercial).

Darkaardvark said...

Okay, this'll be my last comment on Purgatory and then I think I'll let it be unless there's super-strong evidence that suggests that it is purgatory:

So here's why I think it's not- without citing that the producers have said it "isn't".

1. People can leave the island and return.

2. Ostensibly, people can come to the island without being dead (though there remains speculation as to just what goes on between leaving the mainland and exiting the sub)

3. The purgatory theory smacks of a "It was all in autistic boy's head" not because it's not a plausible theory based on the evidence, nor because it's not original, but because it offers a blanket explanation (a unified theory) if you will, without really explaining anything. Okay, it's Purgatory, and that's why things are strange. Gotcha. But even if it IS purgatory, it can't be that important, because you're going to have to explain Smokey et. al. SOMEHOW, and whether it's purgatory or not, THAT will be the big explanations.

3. Possibly, there can be contact between the outside world and island, and the time-streams appear to be simultaneous.

4. The Lost Experience showed us that the Dharma Initiative is a real (fictional) organization that exists in the real (fictional) world and off the (fictional) island.

5. People have died without having their "problems" resolved, see Goodwin, Doc Arzt, Libby, etc.

Okay, there. I wash my hands of the whole affair. Until shocking new evidence comes to light, my part in the debate is over- as far as I'm concerned, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

Now: Our question for Tuesday night/Wednesday fun:

What was the most embarrassing "beginner" mistake you've ever made while discussing Lost? Forgot who that guy who is Claire's dad was? Didn't remember the name of the flight they were on?

Mine would have to be never remembering character's last names. I've gotten better about this but until midway through season 3, I had to think about it for a minute to come up with Jack's last name. And I don't think I know Rose/Bernard's...let me think. ...nope.Oh right, Nadler. Thanks, Lostpedia. See? I'm dumb.

maven said...

Good question, dark!

I guess mine would be never knowing the name of episodes! I seriously got into this blogging thing only a year ago when TLE started, and I'm in awe of everyone's vast knowledge with minutia about the show! Everyone seems to roll off episode titles so easily...knowing what happened in which episode!

DeDJeZTeR said...

Chucklez,
I fyou listened to the Whispers in my bit... they said

Only Chucklez thinks it's Purgatory, Keep up the good fight.

I wasn't making fun of you, but kind of giving you props for holding on for so long. I find it refreshing that you will not let it die just because TPTB said that you should... in not so many words.

DeDJeZTeR said...

Oh and Wow do those new previews at abc say a whole buch about whats coming this week. It Looks good.

:::::::::::::::Maybe considered spoilers:::::::::::

Lost Previews at ABC

scoutpost said...

Wow Ded- I watched part of that preview but had to stop it right before Juliet started talking! LOL I couldn't bear to spoil myself too much! I have to say I hope whatever she says redeems Jack because he was still being El Jerko to Sayid in that clip.

maven said...

These previews are so tempting! There are spoilers all over the place. This is the safest place until May 24th!

DeDJeZTeR said...

They are only spoilers if you consider them spoilers. I likw the tease. The wetting of the appatite, so to speak. But yeah they say way too much for a preview.

Amused2bHere said...

Chucklez...you crack me up. I had to laugh a bit reading your tongue in cheek rant about Purgatory...you really should record a voice mail for Passafist and Goog to play on the podcast, outlining your Purgatory theory. That would be a blast to hear.

Ded, props to you for giving props to Chucklez. He's really the lone voice crying in the wilderness, and boy will he have the last laugh if it turns out he was right!

Keep the faith, Chuck. Until they introduce a real theory buster, stick to your guns!

Shakey said...

Just to comment on the Purgatory and what TPTB have said...

I concur with the standpoint that saying "it's Purgatory" is a cop-out explanation of everything crazy, so I'm inclined to go with TPTB when they said "it's not Purgatory".

However, I also share sentiment with Chucklez in that although this may not be Purgatory it doesn't mean to say that Purgatory isn't involved.

I've changed a lot of my thoughts since reading in Doc Jensen that the TPTB stating "everything can be explained through science" is actually a myth. So, taking a hard science explanation for everything out of the equation, it really blows open the possibilities for what's going on.

So here's my theory:

The island is inspired by Hades - the unseen Realm of the Dead - the Greek intepretation of the Afterlife. This is significant because in Greek mythology, the Afterlife does have entrances to it from the living world and living people can pass to and from it (Herakles and his 12th Labour, Orpheus and Eurydice, etc.). You can even take the dead back out again (Orpheus and Eurydice). Note that the dead in the Afterlife as not ghosts - they are as corporeal and solid as the living, so a living "visitor" to the Afterlife can touch and interact with the dead "residents".

It's also important to note that, alive or dead, the only way you can pass into Hades itself, and out of Hades too, is by passing over the River Styx with the Ferryman. Hades is actually surrounded by a number of rivers and bodies of water, but crossing the Styx is the only route across.

Of course we already know about Kerberos the three-headed dog, but again it's worth noting that Kerberos was only the guardian of Hades to ensure the dead remain IN the Afterlife and to keep the living OUT. Of course he would have to be able to tell who was dead and who was alive.

One other quick note: the god Hades was ruler of the Afterlife and although he was the brother of Zeus, King of the Gods, Zeus had no say over how Hades ran his domain and very often the activities inside the Afterlife went unseen by Zeus. He was also feared because of his dark and morbid personality, but Hades was always a just ruler and very strict - he strictly forbade his subjects to leave and would be outraged if anybody living tried to take his subjects away (usually setting Kerberos into action).


This is all sounding very similar: you can get to and from the island from the rest of the world, but you have to follow a specific route across the surrounding bodies of water (Michael and Walt following heading 315) and be "ferried" over by the submarine. The island itself is "unseen" to the rest of the world and "God himself can't see" it.

I can't cite you the story I'm thinking of, but there is a tale in Greek mythology of a ship sailing across the ocean which gets lost and shipwrecked in a storm on some unknown land - this land turns out to be Hades and they got to it by accident crossing one of the other bodies of water. Oceanic Flight 815 did the same - got lost and was crashed by a "storm", leaving the survivors on an unknown land. Or 815 somehow managed to cross the island's Styx when the Swan EMP brought it down. Either way survivors of the crash are living people in the land of the dead.

The Cerberus defence system - aka Smokey - appears to scan people to determine who they are, and when it determines that our Losties are not from the island (i.e. the living from the outside) it "guards" the island, trying to keep the living out.

Does this mean though that Anthony Cooper really DID die in the car crash in Tallahassee, and thus was transported to the land of the dead? It seems a little too convenient that The Other's off-island contacts would go "hang on - the dad and con-dad of two of our survivors has just had an accident - let's kidnap him in case he's useful". So maybe Ben was telling the truth - Coop's appearance really was a magnificent coincidence. Remember, the living and the dead are both as corporeal and solid as each other in Hades, so Locke and Sawyer can still physically interact with him.

my train of thought here continues into Jacob and his relationship with Ben and Locke (drawing on images and portrayal of the god Hades), who Alpert and the Hostiles are and why they don't age and a lot more stuff. I'll happily share if you're interested...

memphish said...

Happy LOST Day! Only 15 more hours in the Eastern part of the country.

Darkaardvark asked: What was the most embarrassing "beginner" mistake you've ever made while discussing Lost? I still make them all the time as these threads show, but the most embarrassing was probably something I did on The Fuselage for which I caught flack and then fled. That's why I love this place.

Your pre-episode Doc Jensen Link. I skipped the paragraph labeled 1. after The Tease because I don't want to know what's going to happen tonight at all. The rest of the article looks okay (from a spoiler-free standpoint). It discusses daddy issues, Doc's philosophy lesson from last week and has reader theories. When I've had more coffee, I'll dive in.

memphish said...

Good stuff Shakey. Joseph Campbell in The Hero With a Thousand Faces says basically that all hero stories are a story of separation--initiation--return. This sounds like all the LOSTies including the Others and Desmond. They've been separated from society, are undergoing their initiation, and will return (?) when they are done.

Campbell elaborates that: A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man.

And here's a specific Underworld (which the hieroglyphics in the Hatch translated to) example: Aeneas went down into the underworld, crossed the dreadful river of the dead, threw a sop to the three-headed watchdog Cerberus, and conversed, at last, with the shade of his dead father. All things were unfolded to him: the destiny of souls, the destiny of Rome, which he was about to found, "and in what wise he might avoid or endure every burden." He returned through the ivory gate to his work in the world.

The reality is that TPTB are combining lots of elements from lots of sources to come up with their story. In fact I think one of the most interesting things about LOST is that they seem to have multiple "heroes" with multiple paths so that the essential story of separation, initiation and return plays out differently for each within the context of this one TV show. There's no way one word is going to tell the whole story, but the idea that they are in a purgatory or even hell is definitely present as are ideas which dispel the notion that those words can sum everything up.

ib4uc said...

Good Lostday fellow locos. Looking forward to tonight's episode. I can't believe next week is the finale already. Where has the time gone...

memphish... thanks for the Doc link.

Note to self -- stay away from DarkUFO! I hope I can resist the temptation to check out the spoilers.

Shakey said...

memphish:

Most definately agree that a single word cannot describe or explain this show. TPTB have drawn in many different sources for their overall story. Certainly the Hades parallels are very strong to explain a good amount of the island, but that's only covering the land in which our story is taking place - we have so many themes of religion vs science, good vs bad, nature vs nurture all mixed in with wacky smoke monsters, ghosts, romance and sexual titilation (this IS primetime 21st century TV after all).

All we can do is wait and see how it all plays out, and for those lucky few who called something or had a correct theory will sit back in 2010 and say "I bloody knew it!".

Shakey said...

As an aside though, I had a REALLY freaky dream a while back whereby the entire upshot of Lost was actually a Wizard-of-Oz-meetsTruman Show-meets-The Prisoner amalgam based out of Kate's mind.

"And you were there, and you were there, and shit they're watching me and I'm a person not a number and I gotta escape!"

Of course as soon as she starts to escape the dream changed so it was actually ME not Kate.

Trying to escape when Smokey AND Rover team up is not nice...

CattyGirl said...

Listening to the podcast now. I can't wait to take part in another live talkshoe podcast.

Happy Lost Day!

memphish said...

I just read that ABC is airing the LOST recap show entitled The Answers both tomorrow night after Grey's Anatomy at 10:15 pm Eastern/Pacific until 11:00 pm and again next Wednesday pre-finale from 8:00-9:00 pm. I don't know how or why it can be 45 minutes one night and an hour the next, but according to my local listings, that's the plan.

CattyGirl said...

I must say that I am happy with Lost at 9pm. I don't think they can get away with the violence on the show if it airs too early.

CattyGirl said...

...and thanks for the Doc J link Memphish.

My favorite sentiment in the article was this:

''By interpreting Lost through its themes I think the inevitable path of the show becomes clear. In my opinion there are only two important themes: 1. Science vs. Religion (or Reason vs Faith); and 2. The Failure of the Father Figure. This second theme ties into the first. The micro-universe of The Island is a mirror for the conflicts of the larger world. All God's children are lost, doomed by their conflicts and their deadly technologies...

memphish said...

CattyGirl, here was my favorite part:

Do I think the producers are seriously inviting debate of philosophical ideas? YES! Do I think it's necessary to do hours and hours of homework in order to understand the show? Heavenly sunshine, NO! A thousand times: NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! I've always believed that all you need to understand Lost is the show itself and nothing more. But the AWESOME beauty of the show is that if you WANT something more out of the show, it's there, in the subtext, waiting to be mined, refined, and shared. Now, I'm not always right in identifying the gems in Lost's subtextual soil — but the digging and the finding is part of the fun, too. And that's what Doc Jensen is all about: Fun. But fun can be smart, or pseudo-smart, or just plain pseudo.

bigdog said...

Its funny. reading that qoute is how i feel sometimes. I read the theories here and sometimes feel that i am not smart enough to understand. i watch the show and i cant wait to read what you guys have to say because i like to learn things.

however i cant imagine just watching this show for pure entertainment without this site because i think i would have lost interest. the story has come so far since a plane crashed on a island.

Shakey said...

I'd agree bigdog.

I caught up with a few friends I hadn't seen in ages and we got chatting about TV shows we were watching. They looked at me really odd, almost accusingly, when I said I was heavily into Lost.

"I stopped watching when a polar bear showed up on a tropical island. It's just shit".

That's the reaction I got, and to be honest if somebody will stop watching a show just because something weird happens I wasn't going to waste my breath trying to go over the complexities of the show.

I've always said I'll give anything a whole season - I made the mistake of leaving Babylon 5 early on because it was dull and badly acted and regretted it and even missed Lost season 1 completely - but I must admit if it hadn't been for TLE last year I don't think I'd still be here.

I guess it's down to what you're after. My mother is perfectly content to watch Lost without having played TLE, although through me and my baby brother (he's 18 - baby???) she can appreciate the extra depth TLE gave us.

bigdog said...

shakey, my wife watches every episode with me. and loves the show. but you wouldnt catch her doing anything extra research for it. Granted our 1 1/2 year old son my have more to do with it than anything.

The TLE was the most inventive thing i had ever experienced. Not only because of all of you, but i was invested in the show after that and was fully committed to see were this takes me.

maven said...

Morning all! Happy LOST Day!

The depth and understanding of the show through all of you guys helps me get so much more out of Lost! There is so much in this show that casual viewing can't appreciate. Thank you all.

In talking with some of my casual viewer friends...they had no idea that we "saw" Jacob for 11 frames. They still believe that Ben was talking to an empty chair. (Of course I sent them some links so they can see for themselves! LOL)

ib4uc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ib4uc said...

shakey/bigdog/maven... I've given up trying to talk Lost with the "casual" viewers I know. It's hopeless. I must say that if I didn't partake in this blog, I would have given up -- everyone is so insightful here. I have to admit that I didn't see Jacob in my first viewing of TMBTC and only found out here that he "appeared".

Ange said...

ib4uc: I didn't see Jacob either (until I watched it frame by frame) and I have a HUGE HD tv. Don't feel bad. Thursdays are always research and theory days for me, and I can't imagine what it is going to be like with empty Thursdays until January!

On an aside...the mailman has just delivered Watership Down and The Wizard of Oz right in the middle of a raging thunderstorm.
Plan for the rest of my sick day, eat M&Ms, look at books and read comments. Chocolate, and blogger, and books oh my!

Erich said...

From the upcoming 16 episode seasons, to the declaration of an endgame, to the TiVo-focused appearance of Jacob, it's clear TPTB are well-aware of how the TV landscape is changing, and are treating Lost accordingly.

I wonder what effect this will have on future shows?

capcom said...

Hi Peeps! Good comments today, as usual.

Sorry to hear of your bad experience at the Fuselage Memphish! Well, there are a lot of kiddie-pal types over there as well, among the more mature bloggers, that spoil that forum for me. Too much crabbiness and drivel to wade through to get to the juicy parts.

I really like the quotes you wrote out from Campbell's book. I knew that I should have gotten that when I saw it last week at the bookstore. Didn't Doc J. mention that book early in this season, or maybe season 2.5? Along with other books that the writers in general utilize. But anyway, what is says about the underworld, seems to be what Lost is mainly about, wow. Good stuff!

ib4uc said...

erich... I just read that Jericho is being cancelled due to (exact quote from MSNBC) “Jericho” started out strong last fall for CBS. However, like “Lost” on ABC and “Heroes” on NBC, many viewers abandoned the show after it went on a long midseason hiatus.

capcom said...

Aw man! I liked Jericho. Although I have to admit that it kind of lacked personality and pizzazz (or should I say razzle-dazzle), it piqued my interest enough to follow it.

bigdog said...

"or should I say razzle-dazzle"

LOL

With so many tv channels available these shows should just be moved to one of the many stations that ABC/CBS/NBC/Fox own. How many reruns of law and order can people watch?

Sayid'sgirl said...

ib4uc
Are you kidding me.
I knew there was talk that it may be canceled and the the finale would wrap things up for the viewers if it was. If they think that wraps things up they're crazy. Plus it's not the viewers that abandon the shows it's the networks who abandon us.
I get so sick of getting into a show just for it to be canceled.

Ok rant done. Sorry.

capcom said...

BTW, thanks Memphish for the heads-up about tomorrow night's Lost. I saw that in the TV guide last night and forgot to ask anyone here if it was an error.

BTW2, I thought that the Gilmore Girls finale last night was kinda blah or predictable. I wonder if every other teen that leaves home after college gets a party in the middle of that town? :o) At any rate, I will miss Emily and Richard, I thought that they were interesting characters.

capcom said...

Bigdog, apparently millions of people seem to be able to watch 24 hours of Law and Order every day. :o) Or so they think.

I agree Sayidsgirl, the season finale of Jericho was not good enough for a final ep. They should have blown up the whole world! I agree about the stations. Why don't they start a spinoff station for serialized TV shows? Then they can lump them all on one station, and those of us who like it won't have to watch 3 hours of George Lopez or King of Queens repeats until our show comes on!

Codysmom said...

Happy Lost Day!!

Oh, wow, Jericho is cancelled? I was just starting to get into it...

Dennis said...

Happy LOST Day LoCos!

Erich said...

Sorry to the Jericho fans. I don't watched the show, but I'd heard good things about it and was looking forward to seeing it on DVD.

For any Veronica Mars fans out there, it looks like next week's gonna be the last we see of that show, which really sucks. I'd gotten my hopes up they were going to reinvent the show by following up with Veronica at the FBI. I guess there's still a chance it could survive. I read somewhere they were supposed to announce its fate tomorrow.

DeDJeZTeR said...

Hey LoCos,

I agree with the statement that these channels need to just move shows to their other stations. It would be so nice if they just didn't toss decent shows away.

How hard is it to keep something on the air. Maybe all hese exec types who run the business these days are suffering from ADD and can't get focused long enough to realize that you don't need 100 million viewers to be a hit.

Do you ever think their are guys out there kicking themselves for what they have had pulled. Like the guy who Cancelled Firefly, a show that has had a solid fan base going even after 5 years of being off the air.

Some people just never learn.

Erich said...

TV is such a wacky medium. It's perfect for long-form serialized programming (like Lost), but the amount of money required to make shows like that practically guarantees only a very few will get properly made. Those shows that do survive are actually better if you can wait to watch them on DVD, but doing that keep ratings down, which results in them getting cancelled anyway...

...sigh.

ib4uc said...

I know Lost is supposed to run for 3 more seasons but I will be majorly PO'd if they decide to cancel because of low viewership.

scoutpost said...

Afternoon LoCo's!
Well ya'll are just depressing me with all the shows that are getting cancelled! Guess we should be happy that ABC committed to LOST the way it did. Can't wait til tonite. Going to go read Doc Jensen...

memphish said...

Yes ib4uc. We'd have to re-allocate the tar and feathers for ABC if that were to happen. It certainly seems possible though, especially if the "game changing finale" drives more viewers away.

Erich said...

Memphish: I think Cliff was right in the podcast. If Lost fans have made it through this season, they're probably in it for the long haul.

Besides, with so much time between the end of this season and the beginning of season four, there's plenty of time to bring in new fans through the DVDs. Wishful thinking, perhaps, but I know if I'd never watched the show before I'd love to watch the first three seasons without having to wait. Reminds me of how I started reading the Harry Potter books after the fourth one came out. I loved being able to read them all in a row... Of course I had to wait a few years for the fifth book but... oh, well.

Amused2bHere said...

Erich, maybe we should host Lost Fan Recruitment parties during the hiatus...we could show pivotal episodes from Seasons 1,2 and 3.

...lure them in with Apollo bars, tell them they can eat all they want...get them hooked on the relationship crossovers...heh heh

memphish said...

I heard a joke about time relativity today from a book on philosophy.

A snail was mugged by two turtles. The cops asked the snail what happened. "I don't know," the snail replied. "It all happened so fast."

Amused2bHere said...

LOL Memphish! Time, as well as age, is relative.

maven said...

Good quote, Memphish! We should all look at time through the eyes(?) of a snail! LOL

Wow...so it's official? Jericho is gone without all the answers! I have nightmares that that will happen to Lost! :(

From my small perspective, it seems that the casual viewers have no patience for something like Lost! If it's not explained right in front of their face right now, they move on! For those diehards like us, the show is so much more than some crash survivors on a strange island. I just hope that the ABC PTB have some patience, because I think that we have some hard times ahead with ratings over the next few years. Remember, it's only numbers to them (and not those numbers!)

DiggityDirge said...

Hey Eeveryone,

I was so bummed to miss last weeks discussion. Was out of the country and my time clock was way off. Great epi and comments. Finally got caught up.

Anyway, going to lurk until the show later tonight but I'm not sure what to think about tonight's epi. Will it be another filler to build up to the finale, or a good lead up to it? I've kept myself spoiler free so I know nothing.

See you all later tonight.

Dennis said...

I saw a couple of things in the news:

ABC is going to offer some of their online shows in HD this summer.


Also, I was looking for last weeks ratings, but for some reason they are still not available at Zap2it or TheFutonCritic (everybody must be busy with all the upfronts). The previous week (4/30-5/6), LOST did not crack the top 20 :(

I finallly found them at USA Today:

LOST
#18 overall, 12.1 million viewers
#9 with 18-49 adults, 6.5 million viewers


Something I found hilarious:

Top Shows among ages 2-11
1. American Idol (Tues) Fox 2.3
2. American Idol (Wed) Fox 2.1
3. House Fox 1.3
4. Dancing With the Stars ABC 1.0
4. Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader? Fox 1.0
6. Survivor: Fiji CBS 0.9
6. Smackdown CW 0.9

ib4uc said...

Interesting info Dennis. House is on that list? I can't believe parents would let anyone under 14 watch that show. I personally love it but I don't think it appropriate for young children. My 10-year old wants to watch it and I say no way.

maven said...

At least Lost can always count on being in the Top Twenty (very important to networks!).

They really keep ratings on 2-11 year olds? And you're right, ib4uc...House is on that list? I wonder what newborns are watching. LOL

ib4uc said...

Did you see the episode last night? Darn it if I didn't fall asleep with 10 minutes to go. So, if anyone can tell me what was wrong with the absolutely horrid child, let me know.

Darkaardvark said...

Here's an interesting pre-episode read about invisibility and how close the technology is to being fully realized:

http://www.physorg.com/news97945163.html

Note that I don't think that's why Jacob appears invisible. But it's a good read anyway.

ib4uc said...

Sorry to get a little OT there but I can always count on you all everyone for answers, no matter what the show!

Erich said...

Memphish: I heard an interview with the authors of that philosophy joke book! They told some of the jokes, and the turtle joke was in there.

A few other good ones:

- A Buddhist walks up to a hot dog vendor and says "Make me one with everything."

- A grandmother is out in the park with her two young grandchildren. A woman walks up to her and asks how old the children are. "Well," she says, "the doctor's five and the lawyer's six."

I think that last one was also a "relativity of time" joke...

DiggityDirge said...

Did you see the episode last night? Darn it if I didn't fall asleep with 10 minutes to go. So, if anyone can tell me what was wrong with the absolutely horrid child, let me know.

He had an iron deficiency in his blood. Not a cure for him being a jerk, but atleast kept him alive.

I thought it was priceless that they gave the kid shrooms for one of the tests. And that he had small gonads as Chase kept saying. Hilarious epi!

chucklez3 said...

amused: what do i need to do to get on the podcast? i will sooooo do it. hahahaha.

and no. don't worry. i will NEVER give up. i'll go down in a blaze of glory first.

and thanks ded, for the props.

capcom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ib4uc said...

diggity... I thought it was pretty funny when they gave him the shrooms also. Far out...

chucklez3 said...

ummm.........btw.......what "whispers"????

capcom said...

Great jokes Memphish and Erich! Thanks!

Well, I guess that the toddlers aren't watching Teletubbies anymore. Yeesh. Good for you for not letting your little'un watch House IB4UC. I like House, but it's not for kids. :o) I missed it last night for some reason.

BTW, what is the title of that philosophy joke book? I know quite a few friends that I could give that to for presents.

C-ya on the other side of the ep friends! :-D

ib4uc said...

Gotta go. Catch ya all tomorrow.

TheBookPolice said...

If you want something to read before the episode, feel free to check out the post I just put up over on my blog.

90 minutes to go!

chucklez3 said...

well, left a couple of messages on the lost experience "hotline". maybe i will participate in the next podcast.

so come one, come all. come see the adamant freak of nature regarded as chucklez. (BYOS)....bring your own stones. throw at will.

Administrator said...

New Post is up for tonight's episode. Who will be "first"? Chucklez?