The Lost Community is coming at you with posts galore this week! Thanks to David & "The Goog" for another bonus podcast. You guys are awesome. About tonight's episode...Ethan + Hood + Shhhh = I'm looking forward to it. That's all I've got to say. Keep rockin' those comments.
Wednesday, April 11, 2007
ONE OF US - SEASON 3, EPISODE 16
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 397 of 397So if Ben is looking for new test subjects for his pregnancy project why does it matter if you're "good?" Does "good" mean susceptible to brainwashing so that you'll volunteer to be impregnated like the dead Sabine? I want to go back and re-watch The Other 48 Days and see if they took only women and kids. I still don't get why they haven't taken any of the Fusies. Maybe that's why Juliet is there -- to evaluate the women of the Fusie camp for her project which if she can complete means she can leave.
did they not try and take mr. Eko menphish
memohish said...Does "good" mean susceptible to brainwashing so that you'll volunteer to be impregnated like the dead Sabine?
Maybe the original "volunteers" were along the lines of Juliet's sister. If a woman REALLY wanted to get pregnant, and was offered this miraculous opportunity, brainwashing may not even be necessary. "You come with us, we'll give you a baby," kinda thing. "Oh but by the way, ignore the giant smoke monster, crazy people, four toed statues, and the fact that we have to knock you out to get you there!"
RE Juliet and her new found bad ass-ness...it seems a recent occurance, not just from Florida to the island, but from that moment on the beach with Ben on it seems like something changed in her.
On the drive to work today I was wondering, could Juliet maybe have formed some sort of alliance with Danielle? Maybe that is where she got all of her manipulation and/or throw down skills. Training in the jungle by and The-Others-Took-My-Baby Crazy French Chick, who may just be not so crazy.
wierd - No, they tried to incapacitate Eko. They attacked the strongest first, and two of 'em got their heads bashed in for their efforts.
oh okay i'll go back and watch season 2 i've forgotten half of it anyway
Wasn't Ben born on the island? Or did I get that wrong?
memphish said:
I didn't even bother to pay attention to the promos tonight which seemed to be multi-episodic, not next week related. ABC ticks me off.
I agree with you they seem multi-episodic,but interesting.
Like Charlie appears to activate a trip wire attached to a spear. Will Desmond be able to save him?
A book with the title ADRIL-22 which is Portuguese for Catch-22. It appears that Sawyer either finds and follows Locke or runs across him and attacks him. Hurley is with Desmond, Charlie, and Jin and has a hand gun and fires it into the air. It appears someone attacks Jin. Kate's making out with someone maybe Jack.They show the legs of someone hanging. Could be revisiting Charlie's hanging or maybe a new one. It appears Sun is grabbed. S.O.S. written in maybe dirt. The next few shows look like they are going to be very intense I can hardly wait.
Also I vote Sawyer and Sayid the new leaders to replace Locke and Jack.
Great episode - was not a big fan of Expose or Left Behind, but this one was a 10.
Couple of thoughts.
(1)Why didn't Rachel recognize Ethan? Didn't we get the impression that he was leaving her apartment as Juliet was entering it in 'Not in Portland'? I thought maybe he was looking in on her, but if so, she didn't react at all when he approached the car when Juliet was leaving.
(2) I think that woman can give birth, IF they conceived off the island. That would explain Danielle and Claire. But women who get pregnant on the island are the ones who cannot make it to term and possibly die. Perhaps, the problem is with the "island sperm"? But like the rest of the men on the island, we would never want to think that!!! ;-)
(3)I am very intrigued by the symbol Dennis found on symbol.com. More specifically, the name of the symbol - Symbol 11:10
To me that looks like a bible verse. I searched "11:10 + bible" on Google and the first thing I found was a link to Genesis 11:10.
Here is what it says:
"This is the account of Shem.
Two years after the flood, when Shem was 100 years old, he became the father [d] of Arphaxad"
Nothing obvious, so maybe I have the wrong section of the bible. But what is intriguing me is the reference to a flood and some people's idea that Herarat is a reference to Ararat, the supposed resting place of Noah's Ark. Could the island have been part of a fantastic civilization affected by the flood?
Stretching, but that symbol means something...
DiggityDirge said... Jack is the new Locke: So we lose Locke to the others, and Jack has to immediately be a sucker in a con. I thought doctors had to be smart!
Well, most of us thought that Locke was acting pretty stupid in "Enter 77".
I think they are doing the same thing here for Jack. Either he has everything figured it out and keeping his eye on Juliet, or we will see a scene with Ben and Jack setting up thier own con.
after watching the show. i have really come to hate Jack. It seems like he has lost all common sense. His logic for trusting a woman who he has been told by ben is "not on his side" and then have Jules tell him to his face that shes been on her own. And to top it all off she tells him that she is the one that caused claire's illness.
Why would anyone in that situation trust someone that was willing on the island.
good stuff on the liar paradox. sums up ben and jules to a tee.
LONG POST...sorry, I have had to stop and start a million times:
Last night Melissa_lossa said…I don't know, I think Ben was telling the truth about Rachel. Telling Juliette that would only make her want to leave more, so it would be in his best interest for Rachel to be healthy.
I think that's part of the reason Ben was so shocked by his own cancer. He can cure everyone else, but now his island home has betrayed him.
I have been thinking about the cancer thing. Ben makes it such a point to mention that there is NO CANCER on that island (codysmom mentioned this too). Probably to hit the point home to Juliet that it is the place for her to be. However, I found it curious too that he automatically said cancer when Juliet told him about his tumor. I am starting to think that Ben has been affected by cancer in some form…either his parents had it, he has had it (maybe he is full of it about being on that island his whole life)
Also diggitydirge said…11. We have a new dock folks. I went back to the season 2 dvd's, and the Man from Talahasse, and the compared the dock we saw tonight to them. It is a different dock than the Palla Ferry dock, and different from the dock where Locke blew up the sub. Was this on island 3 perhaps?
I agree, the sub was in a totally different placement than we have seen in the past.
While on the sub…I was wondering, was Juliet ever actually IN MOTION on the sub? For all we know the whole, we drug you to travel, thing could have been a big ruse to make it seem like the island is a lot farther/more remote than it actually is. Plus, when flying, why would you need to be knocked out? How “rough” is the trip? I am thinking not half as bad as they want her to think.
And lastly, I pose this question: What type of implant is small enough for you to not know you’ve had it, activates itself, and causes you to bleed internally?
sorry - meant to say willingly on the island.
Ange said: And lastly, I pose this question: What type of implant is small enough for you to not know you’ve had it, activates itself, and causes you to bleed internally?
maybe the same kind of implant that mikahael had when he ran into the fence?
bigdog said...maybe the same kind of implant that mikahael had when he ran into the fence?
:-O Good one bigdog! I forgot that maybe Patchy had an implant and that it wasn't just sonic waves that made him KAPOW.
bigdog said... Ange said: And lastly, I pose this question: What type of implant is small enough for you to not know you’ve had it, activates itself, and causes you to bleed internally? maybe the same kind of implant that mikahael had when he ran into the fence?
WOAH!
Maybe ALL the Others have implants, and the sonic fence was used to keep people IN!
ange -
I agree that Ben has some kind of weird relationship with cancer. Here's a couple of things to ponder:
1) Ben keeps saying that he cured Rachel's cancer, but it was actually Jacob who did it. And Jacob was able to do it off the island.
2) Although the only person who can save Ben is Jack, Jack is NOT on Jacob's list. Does that mean that Jacob did not want Ben to be saved?
3) Is it possible that this cancer is something that Ben has been anticipating? Perhaps either through future knowledge, or a threat by Jacob (do what I say, or you'll be infected)? That could explain why Ben makes the leap to cancer when Juliette tells him about the tumor.
4) If that is the case, is Ben's cancer similar to Claire's implant, in that it can be activated remotely?
hey guys
two quick things:
i think jack right now is fed up with being in a fight with the others. he's not stupid but just tired. he just wants to go home. thats why he has taken juliet back to the beach to regroup with his people and try to gain juliets honest trust that 'all they want to do is get off that island' and move from there either with her or without her. i mean when you are a leader sometimes people disappoint you but that doesn't stop you from trusting in them again does it?
thinking about the knock out juice. maybe to get to the island you need to go through a time shift and to do that you need to be asleep - like in steven kings The Langoliers?
acewebguy said... (2) I think that woman can give birth, IF they conceived off the island. That would explain Danielle and Claire. But women who get pregnant on the island are the ones who cannot make it to term and possibly die. Perhaps, the problem is with the "island sperm"? But like the rest of the men on the island, we would never want to think that!!! ;-)
Expanding on this, who or what is impregnating the women? Could they be trying to create a super-human? Or some sort of half-human/half-? creature? What a gruesome thought...
Do we know who claires baby daddy is?
If something strange happens at conception do all women get pregnant the first time?
Did they say that only the mother dies or both the mother and child.
Is jules still bitter about goodwin being killed and if so at who. lostie for doing it or ben for sending him?
How come no one saw all the video survelance when sayid, locke and kate met patchy?
Just a few random questions, back to work now on a rainy day in miami.
Morning all! Still reeling from last night, and enjoying all of your great insights!
Re the current discussion about the cancer: If Ben keeps telling Juliet that he can cure Rachel's cancer and that there is no cancer on the island, the big question is why does Ben develop a tumor? Obviously, Ben is freaked out about it and this leads to his "bonding" with Locke eventually.
Ben tells Juliet that "Jacob will take care of this himself" in regards to Rachel. Why doesn't Jacob help Ben? Is Ben control over "his people" slipping away once they realize he's vulnerable to disease and Juliet sees an opportunity to take over from Ben? She seems to be in control of everyone...Ben trusts her and Jack seemingly trusts her. Time will tell.
bigdog said...Did they say that only the mother dies or both the mother and child.
Maybe that's where Karl came from?
Random observations
-Ben: The Boy Who Lived? Was Ben the last successful on-Island male birth? Does the fact that Alex was born on the Island have something to do with the serendipity of her (alleged) father's own birth?
-Juliet's mark: Truly the Mark of Cain? We may have reached the crest of our pile of evidence on that. First, she kills one of her own. Second, she is tried and sentenced to being "marked." Then, she is cast out. After that, she is apparently spared molestation from a malignant force on the Island, without more than mere facial recognition. Then, after being thrust into a dangerous environment, she tells Jack that "she's already on her own," apparently without concern for her own well-being. I don't know if it's been discussed here, but the Mark of Cain doesn't just signify an offense to the Lord, but also an immunity from worldly harm/retribution. Is Juliet operating with a free pass on the Island as a punishment? Can she no longer leave, without suffering a greater punishment? Is the Island her prison, wherein she has complete protective custody?
Sayid's Girl said, Also I vote Sawyer and Sayid the new leaders to replace Locke and Jack.
Count me in on that vote too.
Acewebguy said, Perhaps, the problem is with the "island sperm"? I love it.
Ange mentioned, the notion that maybe you don't go on a sub. I'm wondering about that too. They were at a place labeled Aviation and Juliet says "I didn't know there was an airfield here" or something like that. So was there no airfield? Was it a sub dock? The magic box portal? What?
BigDog good call on Patchy and Claire having the same implant each of which is triggered by sonic waves? But Patchy's happened so much faster. So did someone administer the antidote right after the Losties left Mikhail. I'm betting yes now. That would explain CC's mysterious statements in the OLP. Then again so would his appearance in the FB.
bigdog said... Do we know who claires baby daddy is?
Her ex-boyfriend Thomas. He left her because he couldn't handle being a daddy.
maven said... Ben tells Juliet that "Jacob will take care of this himself" in regards to Rachel. Why doesn't Jacob help Ben?
Maybe because there is no Jacob, and Ben is the man behind the curtain. Ben may be telling the truth about no one on the island getting cancer, that's why he is surprised.
If the island cures cancer, why would that cure work off the island? Ben may be lying about Rachel getting cancer again. If Jacob doesn't exist, then he didn't cure Rachel's cancer, because she really didn't have it again. It was a con to keep Juliet on the island.
BTW, why is Ben so opposed to having Rachel come to the island? Seems like a nice place to live.
I think Ben doesn't want Rachel on the island because he doesn't want Juliette to have that family tie so close. This way, she is isolated, with only the Others as her friends. With Rachel around, they would have an alliance that Ben might not be able to fully control.
Hey Locos, Just watched the ep at work. Sorry if I repeat stuff, haven't caught up yet.
I'm starting to think that Jacob is actually more of a god like character! Do we know if anyone other than Ben has spoken to him?!
Or he could be a wizard of OZ type character, where ben is the voice of Jacob, and stands behind a little green curtain!
Wasn't Juliet sitting on the same spot where Kelvin slipped a few days later?! as in Desmonds boat was just around the corner?!
I still want to beleive Juliette will turn to be on the Losties side. She really wants to go home, and maybe Jack will get her on side...
Glad we now know why Juliette was crying in "Not in Portland", and why Ben wasn't at the book club.
I think I've turned to a skater too! Never thought I'd say that...
Does anyone know where I can see the promo for next week?!?
IEAL
memphish said... Ange mentioned, the notion that maybe you don't go on a sub. I'm wondering about that too. They were at a place labeled Aviation and Juliet says "I didn't know there was an airfield here" or something like that. So was there no airfield? Was it a sub dock? The magic box portal? What?
It was definitly an airfield. When juliet enters the OJ room, you can see a plane talking off, and another plane out on the tarmack.
That's a pretty long knock out drug to fly to a sub then travel on a sub. Of course, once she's out you could keep sedating her. Seems like they would have waited to get her on the plane to drink it. Now they have to carry her.
Doc Jensen is up.
IEAL here is a link to the next US trailer.
I think that the airfield was part of the ruse. Anyone else who happened to be there (like Rachel), would assume that they had flown Juliette somewhere, thus making the island even harder to find. This looks like a small airfield, with smaller planes, not the type that you would typically take for a trip out to the Pacific.
If Jules set up everything, was smokey apart of the plant or did she get scanned for another reason?
Thanks Memphish!!!
IEAL, you can also see trailer screen grabs here.
Memphish said: Ben may be lying about Rachel getting cancer again.
Agreed. The medical file that Ben showed Juliet revealed EKGs. I'm no doctor, but how do EKGs show someone has cancer?
Juliet said... I'm Curious Sayid, how long was it before you told everyone on that beach exactly exactly how many people you've tortured in your life? Do they know about Basra?
Here is some information about what happened in Basra that Sayid may have been involved in:
1991: First revolt
After the first Persian Gulf War in 1991 Basra was the site of widespread revolt against Saddam Hussein, which was violently put down with much death and destruction inflicted on the city.
1999: Second revolt
A second revolt in 1999 led to mass executions in and around Basra. These alleged abuses are to feature amongst the charges against the former regime to be considered by the Iraq Special Tribunal set up by the Iraq Interim Government following the 2003 invasion.
scoutpost said...
re: the newspaper date-
yeah I wondered if that was some kind of response to the Expose questions. Like Ben (and TPTB)were saying "here, it says right here that the day the plane crashed was 9/22/04".
TPTB actually talked about this in the official lost podcast. They were saying that Greg Nations has some expalining to do in regards to the date on Nikki's paper from Expose. Greg is in charge of props. They said it probably had something to do with the timeline and Autralia, but said they would be asking Greg to explain.
I thik that is exactly why the showd the date again this week. To clear up confusion.
the way the russian had the close up pics of 815 as it was crashing makes me think the black smoke was tailing the plane taking pictures, just like julliette knew about jack and the caves. When the smoke was creeping on kate and julliette last week it was seeming to take pictures, which also fits into locke saying he saw white light when he looked the monster in the eye. ANd am i wrong that that nice state of the art computer the russian had going for ben and julliette was not there when kate sayid and locke were there?or at least not working. Another thing i thought is who is to say that there is just one submarine, the russian told locke that. Itersting how Julliette lost her voice after the trip and drugging much like locke before his sweat lodge with goes with my theory about locke being set in the forrest by the smoke. Or how Julliette looked right at desmond and sun when she was talking about all the stuff they did to people. obviously Sun is gonna need some injections. The way julliette was in the know about the microchip in claire shows she is deeply involved and why ethan with held the vaccine from her. Perhaps that is why they want to kill charlie too cause he was inoculating himself aND THATS AGAINST THEIR PLANS?
bigdog said... If Jules set up everything, was Smokey apart of the plant or did she get scanned for another reason?
maven said... Memphish said: Ben may be lying about Rachel getting cancer again. Agreed. The medical file that Ben showed Juliet revealed EKGs. I'm no doctor, but how do EKGs show someone has cancer?
Maybe this all had to do with lying - the island punishes liars.
Ben lies to Juliet that her sister has cancer, and if she stays on the Island, "Jacob" will cure her.
Then coincidentally, Ben develops cancer? Ben's surprised look is that he realized that he gave himself cancer!
Maybe Smokey scanned Juliet because she was lying to Kate about the handcuffs.
TheBookPolice said...
Dennis - Desmond's closer to DHARMA as anyone else on the Island. I can't decide if the Others kept an eye on the Swan, or if they didn't know to look there until the plane crashed. He's the only one who was in the Swan and actually knew even a little bit about it.
But what about the button? Not pushing the button has had a negative effect on the others, so I have a hard time thinking that they weren't monitoring the hatch. It would be dumb luck that they survived this long without an incident if they weren't monitoring the button.
TPTB keep saying that someone that we all think is dead will return and suprise us. The fan fav choice is Mikhail, but could it be Kelvin?
Dennis I like the idea that Ben lied his way into cancer. Would he have been able to lie his way into being Henry Gale as well?
diggitydirge - Not pushing the button has had a negative effect on the others...
No, turning the key had a negative effect on the Others. For all we know (and Ben's behavior in the Swan argues fairly strongly for this), the Others wanted the clock to expire in the Swan.
memphish - The prop guy is going to get strung up like Charlie after that one.
TBP, Maybe that explains his absence from The Fuselage.
Doc Jensen made an interesting observation: Ben is keeping Alex away from Karl because of the pregnancy problems. More than just a strict father upset with his daughter's choice of men.
Hope Juliet and Goodwin used the Dharma condoms!
maven said...
Ben tells Juliet that "Jacob will take care of this himself" in regards to Rachel. Why doesn't Jacob help Ben? Is Ben control over "his people" slipping away once they realize he's vulnerable to disease and Juliet sees an opportunity to take over from Ben? She seems to be in control of everyone...Ben trusts her and Jack seemingly trusts her. Time will tell.
TPTB have been alluding to a power sturggle all season. At first I think it was more reasonable to believe that power struggle was within the others, but after last night I see two dictinct possibilities:
1. A Power struggle breaks out at the beach between Sayid, Jack, and Sawyer. Jack loses credibility and control at the beach. (this is the most likely scneario in my opinion)
2. Juliett betrays Ben and brings the losties in on Ben's plan. It appears Juliett's motivation is still to get off of the island, but now we know she is willingly complying with Ben's plan. If she turned the tables on Ben, it could lead to issues between Ben and his people or Jacob and Ben.
Yes, diggitydirge: Juliet's transformation from a wide-eyed, gung-ho, do-gooder researcher to manipulating schemer has been interesting. She was almost giggly when we first met her, and now she's a stone-faced woman on a mission. What's that mission? Control of the Others or really just getting off the island?
Off to a meeting...bbl
did anyone think that the 815'ers might be considered the hostiles. Mittleos bioscience is the closest thing to a descendant of dharma, they have a finacial arm on the outside world prolly mittlewerk
Maybe locke has a chip too, thats why he was manipulated into sacrificing boone when his legs started going bad
2costa said... And am i wrong that that nice state of the art computer the russian had going for ben and julliette was not there when kate sayid and locke were there?or at least not working.
I think Locke was in the same room, he was just distracted by the chess game. The computer racks behind him look like the same ones we see to the right when Ben and Juliet enter the same room.
Dad in a Box is a video now.
when ben sent for the man from talahassee he did it to bring out the sub so locke could blow it up so obviously lockes dad was in their other base that we havent seen, it would reason that they have another sub or at least a way to acess the unseen hatch. Maybe the hatches are all connected with blast doors and thats how they snatched up locke desmond eko after purple sky, that how the russian could have gone hatch to hatch. The others ussually dont make kistakes so its odd that they left the horse outside for sayid and kate to surmise that there was a subbasement. Since trhe russian was responsible for the dossiers it is proven that he told sayid his cat was named after the woman he tortured to f with his head
Jack said after the sub blew up he seen it Juliet's eyes that she really wanted to get off the island and that made her one of us.
But why doesn't Jack get that Ben not Jack is the only one Juliet thinks can get her off the island and that she's going to do Ben's bidding until she gets off the island?
2costa - The term "The Hostiles" was mentioned well before the crash of Flight 815. We first heard it from Kelvin, when Desmond was first brought into the Swan.
And yeah, I've always questioned whether Kelvin was truly dead or not. I wouldn't be all that shocked to see him return.
Did anyone else catch that Karl delivered Bens xrays to Juliet
2costa said...
when ben sent for the man from talahassee he did it to bring out the sub so locke could blow it up
I'll have to back and watch, but I'm pretty sure Locke had already blown up the sub before Ben called for TMFT.
diggitydirge, 2costa - No, the sub was blown up after Ben sent for the man from Tallahassee.
Do you think they inserted triggerable chips in Jack, Kate and Sawyer like they did Claire? We saw the little band-aids and I was assuming they took blood, but maybe they've tagged them like a microchip in a dog.
Diggity, Ben asked for TMFT when Locke was first hiding in the closet with Alex leading to the great Ben line "No we don't have a code for there's a man in my closet with a gun to my daughter's head, but I suppose we should."
And Jay, I heard that Karl thing too. Good ears.
2costa....
I stand corrected. Ben did ask Alpert for the man from talahasee before LOcke blew up the sub.
Morning LoCo's! I think I've mostly caught up on comments.
TBP- I really like your mark of Cain idea on Juliet. That will be interesting to see if it plays out. If she has immunity from Smokey.
What if everyone brought to the island (since they have to be tranquilized) has been fitted with an implant? Then if needs be, it gets activated a la Mikhail and Claire? Or like Dennis said, maybe the implants and the fence were made to keep people IN instead of keeping something/someone out.
I too think Ben was lying about Rachel's cancer returning. And FWIW, an EKG can't tell if someone has cancer or not, like you said Maven- I used to be an ICU nurse, I know at least that much!
The main question going thru my mind right now is "who is Jacob?" I'm beginning to agree that maybe he isn't a real person like some of you have said. First of all, what kind of leader keeps a man like Ben (expert manipulator, controller, and liar, always 8 steps ahead of everyone else) for a right hand man? You could only do that if you were more devious than he, otherwise Ben would take over. So that means that Jacob is really crooked. OR, Jacob could just be a pigeon and Ben really is running the show, but then why does Ben keep Jacob around? Jacob has been described as both benevolent and vengeful (or something like that)- so that is a real dichotomy. Perhaps Ben was getting out of control and this is why Jacob has chosen not to heal Ben? or does it mean that there really is no miraculous cancer cure on the island or otherwise? This whole Jacob scenario is very confusing.
memphish- yeah I wonder that too about whether J, K, and S were fitted with implants while they were out. Of course we saw the Others draw blood from Michael's arm, so they could've just drawn blood.
scoutpost - Jacob is Keyser Soze.
Could Juliet know about Sawyer killing the dude in Australia because Smokey was the stupid boar he tracked and it scanned him and reported back to the Others? The whispers were in that episode saying "It'll come back around" just like Duckett (not the real Sawyer) said when James (not the real Sawyer) Ford shot him.
I agree that Jacob is Keyser Soze.
well i dont know if that dude julliette was sleeping with was jacob or just a ben rival, but it makes more sense that she really did want ben dead. And i suspect that the true terror she had from the smoke the second time might be tied to that. Jack and maybe sayid are a resource that ben can tap whenever he wants that why they were left behing not to chance a judging from the smoke. I think she doesnt know if that did she was sleeping with was on her side or just trying to get rid of ben
If pregnancy kills you and no one knows that better than Juliet, I wouldn't be sleeping with anyone without my Dharma/Mittelos protection of some sort.
TheBookPolice said...
scoutpost - Jacob is Keyser Soze.
LOL....and like that, he was gone.
Someone last night was asking about the Jacob and Eseu story. This is a bit long but I thought it was interesting. Google results follows. Check out the whole story at http://www.hope.edu/bandstra/RTOT/CH2/CH2_2A.HTM
A. Jacob versus Esau: Stealing the Blessing (25:19-28:22)
The birth narrative of Jacob and Esau establishes points of contact with the Abraham cycle. Rebekah was barren. Like Sarah before her she had children only after Yahweh intervened. The pregnancy proved painful as the babies jostled each other in the womb. Yahweh revealed this was happening because the twins would be rivals.
Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples born of you will be divided; the one will be stronger than the other, the elder will serve the younger. (25:23)
The brothers would struggle with each other, but the outcome was foreordained. The younger would win. The Jacob cycle finds affinity with the Abraham cycle in the rivalry of the favored sons Ishmael and Isaac, though the earlier rivalry was played out by the mothers. In the present case the cycle is driven by Jacob's determination not to let Esau inherit. First, Jacob bought the birthright (25:27-34) from Esau, who was willing to sell it for a pittance. The birthright is the right of the firstborn to inherit the family estate. Then Jacob deceived his father, Isaac, into giving him the blessing that was intended for Esau (27). The irony of the cycle is that Jacob did not know he had been foreordained to prevail. He schemed to get what God had already granted him at birth.
There is also a transparently deeper level to the sibling conflict. The divine oracle to Rebekah reveals that these stories are about more than just brothers at war. "Two nations are in your womb"--they are stories of national conflict. These tales prefigure the later antagonism of Israel and Edom.
did anyone think that maybe julliette had to make it to the beach to check if kate is pregnant, thats why she didnt want to let sawyer and kate go cause they are her only real shot of leaving. Or maybe a lot of the others have stories like julliette maybe the purple sky was to appease all the others that were itching to leave, maybe zeke has outside interests and truly thinks they cant go back. They made it seem that claire was her first success at keeping the mother alive, but they already said that it happens at conception and she didnt concieve on the island. If they can turn the virus on and off then the possability exists that julliette was lying and if ethan was just improvising why hand charlie from a tree and withhold the vaccine from claire, maybe its a failsafe to kill off hostiles and hence why they wanna get rid of charlie cause he immunized himself, plus ethan and that whole eyer for an eye thing
after all she has to prove that she can keep alive a mother on the island that concieved on the island
Ok call me a nerd, but I had never heard of Keyser Soze. I wikied him though and yes, I agree, that must be who Jacob is... LOL
I really do have the freaky feeling that Kate may have been set up to get pregnant. Maybe that's what the blood work they took from J, K, and S was for- mating purposes. yuk
And, yeah- Juliet better know she can't get pregnant or have some serious protection otherwise what the heck was she thinking with Goodwin?!
This episode was the first time I really saw the Losties from The Others' point-of-view. When Sayid and Sawyer came after Juliet, I could see them as the same murderers she and the other "Listies" think they are.
Here are some random questions:
Did Juliet’s sister’s cancer return, or was it just a classic Ben ploy? If her sister was, indeed, healed by Jacob, was the cancer passed on to Ben in trade? If so, did Ben willingly accept the deal to keep Juliet around?
Is curing the island infertility curse The Others’ primary objective, or just an obstacle keeping them from their real work (whatever that may be)? What is the source of this gruesome penalty for attempted reproduction?
(For anyone who's interested, I've put up my Lost post for this week at my blog.
I guess I'm a little confused. Juliet said the problems started at conception. So, why would Claire and Sun be so valuable if they conceived before they landed on the island?
scoutpost said... Ok call me a nerd, but I had never heard of Keyser Soze. I wikied him though and yes, I agree, that must be who Jacob is... LOL
:( That's too bad. You spoiled a really good movie for yourself.
Langoliers......good idea Andy.
TBP....interesting thought on Cain, it certainly fits.
Maybe Ben and the Others needed the Swan clcok to timeout and the magnetism to crash, so that they could finally conceive and carry to term? Perhaps the magnetic thing that the DI built off of the island's unusual magnetic force is what was keeping the Other from procreating. They didn't want the Purpling, as TBP said, but they needed the shutdown of the magnetic device. Maybe?
Good point Sayidsgirl, Ben is the only person that Jules is ever going to be sucking up to, to get off the island. Jack can't do squat for her accept to keep her safe (to an extent) while she is on the beach.
TBP....and Keyser Soze would then be Ben. :o)
Memphsih, she's probably using two or three types of contraceptive at the same time! :o)
Hmmm. I wonder if the purpling has affected the pregnancy problem.
Tx for that link to Sledgeweb! Maybe Rachel IS a transformer, like someone mentioned after NIP. Then she really could be a 187 pound male. :o)
Otherwise, a very weird thing for Props to put, and linger on, in the show, considering our scrutiny.
ib4uc said... I guess I'm a little confused. Juliet said the problems started at conception. So, why would Claire and Sun be so valuable if they conceived before they landed on the island?
Claire conceived off the island, but we don't know for sure with Sun. Once we find out for sure who the daddy is, then we'll have a better idea.
Jin was sterile off the island, so if the island cured him, he could be the daddy, and she would have conceived on the island.
If Jae Lee is the father (which I don't believe), then she would have conceived off the island.
What if it's Michael who's already produced "special" Walt. BTW I hate that theory, but thought I'd mention it.
dennis... all the more reason that they would want Kate to get pregnant on the island. So they could run experiments on her.
I just assumed Sun got pregnant before the crash. Well, we all know what happens when you assume...
I'm leaning a little more towards this after One of Us -- that it was orchestrated by the Others.
BTW, did Ben call someone Sabine when he was talking to Jules?
Wikipedia says in part: "Legend says that Romans abducted Sabine women to populate the newly built town, resulting in conflict ended only by the women throwing themselves and their children between the armies of their fathers and their husbands. The kidnapping (see The Rape of the Sabine Women) became a common motif in art; the women ending the war forms a less frequent but still reappearing motif."
Just wonderin'. I guess we'll see if our literary recapper J.Wood mentions anything about that name.
capcom... I thought that was tne name of the pregnant woman who died while Goodwin was operating on her trying to save her. Juliet was watching.
Rachel's a man, baby! (said in my best Austin Powers)
That is hilarious.
Does anyone know how many days after the crash that Sun asked for the pregnancy test? I'm leaning towards conception pre-crash. She'd need a little time to decide if she was merely late or likely pregnant (and stress can throw off a schedule. surviving a plane crash on a scary island is pretty stressful). If Jin was sterile until they crashed, it would take a little time for her to get pregnant and actually realize it. Plus, Jin was with the tailies for a while, limiting their procreation options.
So I'm thinking ib4uc's point is a good one....Kate is pretty valuable for experimenting on. (especially now that our only other named females of appropriate breeding age are 6 feet under!)
Here are the Fast National ratings for Wednesday, April 11, 2007, 10:00 p.m. time slot, courtesy of www.zap2it.com
CBS reclaimed the top spot at 10 p.m. thanks to "CSI: NY," 8.5/14. "Lost" earned a 7.1/12 for ABC, and NBC's "Medium" posted a 5.1/8.
Jay said...
Did anyone else catch that Karl delivered Bens xrays to Juliet
Actually, Karl appeared in the episode briefly, but a bit later. While Juliet is walking to Ben's house to confront him, along the way she passes Karl and he says "Hi, Julie."
I'll see if I can find a screen cap.
Okay everyone who thinks that Kate is research material, why did they let her go/leave her behind then? Why do they need to forgive her to experiment on her?
memphish!!! Just looked at your avatar, and, omg! you really are a skater now! Never thought that would happen:)
Here is Karl.
Jason said... I doubt the implants are related to the fence. If so, how could the fence block the smoke monster?
I think whatever the purpose of the fence is, the fact that it blocks Smokey is just a bonus.
Dennis said... Closed-caption shows the name as Pryce.
It looks like it is Ryan Pryce, one of the "security" guys. He was the guy guarding Sayid at the swing set.
So Pryce is the new Pickett I'm guessing.
And yes Codysmom, I've swung full Skater. I was leaning that way pre-episode which my lurking friend Beauregard1 can confirm if she'd delurk.
I think I'm going to re-watch the whole ep now and be back later.
For now, I'm sticking with my last nite's theories of Liars, Liars, there is no Jacob, and Rachel's cancer never came back. Ben is a liar, Ben is a liar, Ben is a liar.
The questions I'm most interested in now,
How do the Others know so much about the Losties?
What made Juliet go from research scientist career woman to being Ben's accomplice? (ange said...
Juliet and her new found bad ass-ness). I agree there was a change in her after her 6 months were up-has Ben finally let her in on the REAL island secrets?
After that reunion hug, how could you not be a Skater? That was so heartfelt, and sweet. Sawyer looked so relieved to see her.
The weird thing about Rousseau is that the Others HAVE to know about her - that's where Alex came from. Did Rousseau just never cross the line, and so she was left alone for 16 years?
I also just want to say that I love you guys! It cracks me up how one person can say, "oh, I think I saw this person last night, " or, "oh, what was that design on that shirt?" and moments later, someone else pops up with a perfect screen shot. :) What teamwork!
Love the avatar memphish! Guess I wasn't the only one yelling at the tv last night "Go to her, Go to her!!!" I'm such a girl sometimes.
While it's looking like Kate could be research material, I sincerely hope not. It just seems so sordid.
And if they really knocked her up while in Other custody, they would not have had her busting rocks. Or locked in a cage with no shelter from the rain. In filth. Eating fish biscuits. Wouldn't that be kinda risky for a mom-to-be?
memphish said...Okay everyone who thinks that Kate is research material, why did they let her go/leave her behind then? Why do they need to forgive her to experiment on her?
They don't have to hold her or forgive her, that is what the implants are for. Also, Juliet is there to keep an eye on her. She is to meet Ben in a week, maybe she is to bring Kate with her, maybe she is there to find out about the Skate-let (PS, I love that the theory is catching on...hehehe). Something happened to Kate prior to her breakfast with Ben. Maybe that is when she got her implant, and was checked for ovulation, etc... fysb I think they had Kate doing rock duty before the hubba hubba bear cage thing?
jason said...Has anyone brought up the point or thought that Rosseau is an Other plant?
Yes, and further, I posted earlier that I think maybe Juliet and Danielle have crossed paths at some point and may have some sort of plot together...dunno though.
I am still going to scream about the Skate-let for now;).
memphish love your avatar.
That was really a sweet scene.
I'm not a Skater or a Jater but I have to say I've always liked Sawyer better than Jack.
Maybe he'll redeem himself for you.
ange said....hubba hubba bear cage thing
ROFLMAO
or
LSHNEMB even
I just rewatched parts of The Other 48 Days and most of the Tailies that were taken by the Others were men. Are we back to the impregnating male mouse version of Juliet's research? The only woman I saw for sure was the black woman with the long braids.
To the Pregnant Kate theorists - I don't think so. We already know Sun's pregnant, and it wouldn't take much to establish when the conception took place. To add a whole new pregnancy, while interesting, would probably add a little too much soap opera to the show.
Kate: You can't leave the beach, because....I'M PREGNANT!!!
Sawyer: (clenches jaw and looks back and forth dartily, like John on Days of Our Lives)
No, I think The Screw in The Zoo was just the Others letting Kate and Sawyer reveal yet another way to manipulate them.
The Screw in the Zoo. I like it.
thebookpolice said The Screw in The Zoo
You guys are killing me! I wonder how many more euphemisms we can come up with????
I just want to try my new avatar. You'll see bookpolice, this season has all been about drama-rama. Gosh I love this show...off to re-watch!
Great avatar Ange.
thebookpolicesaid...
The Screw in The Zoo was just the Others letting Kate and Sawyer reveal yet another way to manipulate them.
"the screw in the zoo"- that is good! You and Sawyer have a way with words!
Ok- I just rewatched the parts where the conversation is about what happens to the pregnancies. The problem on the island is not conception...women can get pregnant, it's that they can't MAINTAIN their pregnancy. It's an autoimmune problem, sounding much like Rh incompatibility- not a sterility problem. Juliet just thinks that the problem starts at conception. Assuming she is telling the truth (big assumption there), she tells Jack that she gave Claire a serum, that she is having a withdrawl symptoms and that if she doesn't get more her immune system may shut down. So I'm thinking the serum must inhibit a person's immune system somewhat in order to keep the woman's immune system from attacking the fetus. If this is true, why would Desmond be taking the same thing? Seems like you would be opening yourself up to getting the "virus" you were trying to avoid.
Speaking of touching moments- Juliet accusing Ben of lying and then begging to go home is quite emotional too. Elizabeth Mitchell really had some difficult acting to do last night.
: ) Thanks. I was trying to come up with something like Rumble in the Jungle. Little did I know at the time that I apparently coined an entirely new term!
scoutpost said...she tells Jack that she gave Claire a serum, that she is having a withdrawl symptoms and that if she doesn't get more her immune system may shut down.
I had a problem sorting this out last night. She told Jack that Calire's immune system was shutting down. I may be wrong, but wasn't what was actually happening triggered by the implant, not a serum at all?
Scoutpost, why do you think anything Juliet said about the serum to Jack was accurate given how they manipulated Claire's illness?
I agree about the maintaining the pregancy thing and that's why things are a bit off to me. Juliet in Miami was working on getting sis pregnant, not keeping her pregnant. I guess she was working on keeping too with the male mouse who got but didn't stay pregnant. The weirdest thing is how damaging it is to the mother. In RH cases is it the mother or the baby or both at risk?
Also, thanks memphish! Okay, really going to rewatch now, maybe pack (ewww, and watch the snow (double ewww). Bookpolice- you should go add your new term to Lostpedia under the episode summary ;).
A couple thoughts on Jules-
1. It seems clear to me the "mark" on Juliet is good. Why would Ben (and ALL the others for that mattter) continue to trust her and put her in charge of big plans if they had stopped trusting her when she killed Pickett? It seems more like they need her and want to keep her there, not execute her. My thought- The whole "execution" thing and the Jack interrogation of Jules/Jack has to rescue her scenario was a set-up by Ben to emotionally involve Jack with Jules. He's thinking ahead how to control Jack and planned to use Juliet on the beach from that time on. (Why wouldn't he want Jack and Juliet to leave on the sub? It would ruin the plan he had already conceived!) (Pun intended :-D)
2. Is Jules sleeping with Goodwin to try and get herself pregnant? Maybe she wants to go home so badly she'll try and fix her own body to make Ben let her go. There are numerous historical stories of doctors getting themselves sick to cure diseases.
Yes- that is why I said that was a big assumption.
But the fact seems to be, even when Ben was talking to Juliet, that the problem is not sterility, but that something happens after conception that no one on the island has babies. So I am wondering if she is using part truth in her lie. Does that make sense? So maybe we shouldn't even go there. But, even if she made that whole part of the story up, it still means that the Others have a problem maintaining pregnancies.
I should've added...and for some reason Ethan was injecting Claire with some sort of serum (from Maternity Leave)- assuming Claire's memories are accurate.
Carissa, about the brand. It seemed like a con to me too. In fact, the brand may be a badge of honor earned by the Others and signify rank and high status, not outcast status.
I don't think Jules is willing to die on the altar of her own research though.
memphish- In Rh incompatibility it is just the baby that is at risk. Which contrasts with the Others problems where both the baby and mother seem to die.
I had this weird vision of Juliet pulling the mark off like it's a sticker and smiling evilly at Jack.
Wake up Jack!!!!
Oh and I'm for Sawyer, Sayid for President, too!
Last week, when I convinced myself that Juliet wasn't a plant (contrarian that I am), I assumed she'd play a foil to Locke joining The Others. Now that we know she is a plant, I'm more inclined to believe Locke is playing The Others. It just makes for a nice balance.
Tough to know if Juliet's sister's cancer did return... I'm inclined to believe that Ben faked her charts to manipulate Juliet. If, however, her cancer really did come back, I wonder if "Jacob" somehow transferred the cancer to Ben, as a kind of payment. It would be interesting, especially if Ben accepted the trade, since Juliet's work seems so important to him. I don't quite know what to make of the whole "You told me I had cancer..." "No, I said you had a tumor" exchange...
Since we're all coining phrases, and I'm getting kind of tired of typing "The Others" all the time, I think I'm going to start calling them the "Listies."
Losties v. Listies '07! Be there this SundaySundaySunday!!!
LMAO FYSB!!!!!! (re:Austin Powers)
Erich said... Since we're all coining phrases, and I'm getting kind of tired of typing "The Others" all the time, I think I'm going to start calling them the "Listies."
Ughh. Please don't :) People get confused.
Things are confusing enough, without everyone have their own nicknames for everything.
Remember Henry, Fenry, Benry, Ben, etc...
Besides, "the listies" has one more letter in it than "the others" - more to type!
Aw, c'mon... it was just a joke... I didn't know you were gonna get all "character count" on me...
"The Others" it is; though it could be construed as kinda xenophobic now that we actually know most of their names.
I and my nephews vote for Jin's "Duh Udders". :o)
erich - Hey, xenophobia is what this show is all about! Don't knock the xenophobia.
Can't we all just get along?
I believe the Others are our future,
teach them well and let them lead the way...
Duh Udders is awesome.
Erich said... I didn't know you were gonna get all "character count" on me...
LOL
Personally, I prefer "The Hostiles", but thats two extra letters!
Hmmm... "Hostiles" is even more un-PC.
You gotta be careful. Next thing you know, you're going to say "being an Other is so easy even a cave man could do it."
Scoutpost, thanks for the RH info. I thought it just affected the babies, but was too lazy to look it up. According to Powell's J. Wood won't be up until tomorrow.
Couple of things, mostly review, but I thought the "Hera" bit was a good addition to the mythology connections:
1. Herarat- Hera is the goddess of marriage and birth.
2. Cerberus- permitted new spirits to enter the realm of dead, but allowed none of them to leave.
3. Hydra (like Hydra Station)- When it emerged from the swamp it would attack herds of cattle and local villagers, devouring them with its numerous heads. It totally terrorized the vicinity for many years.
Seems to be more and more mythology connections as we go along. Maybe ties in with the 4 toed foot?
hey every1 i was just freeze framing through next weeks episode and i cought an image of some1 holding a book, The title is in some different language and i was just wondering if any1 knew wat it is. It says "ARDIL-22" wit maybe like some sort of string hanging form the A to the R. Any1 know?
Heres a link to the promo.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=J500TgO9a_I&mode=related&search=
If you can time it right its at 00:15. Also there is a shot of a crossbow aimed at somthing at 00:09 and you can see it leving the bow at 00:10. Could this be Rousseau? Also possibly some1 trying to stab Jin at 00:11. Julliet opening a VERY thick vault? door. Kate making whoopee to another person. Cant exactly make out who. Looks like Jin to me but i dont think........or p****??? I didnt kno kate was the whole digging dead bodies up type...... Feet hang from possibly a tree at 00:14. Could this be charlie being hung again????!!!! The reason i think that is because still at 00:14 right after that shot there anotherone with charlie lokking possibly like hes choking. At 00:15 theres a shot of Bernards SOS sign. At 00:16 there is at shot of maybe Sun getting kidnapped again... so looks like no1 is safe on the island......
I read somewhere that ARDIL-22 is Catch 22 I think in Portugese. I'll double check and correct if I'm wrong. Otherwise assume that it's Portugese.
capcom said...
I and my nephews vote for Jin's "Duh Udders". :o)
LOL, hope you're happy, I just spit coffee all over my computer on this one:)
cam said...
Kate making whoopee to another person.
You don't think that's Sawyer?
Why won't Ben let anyone off the Island??????
Codysmom: I guess won't let anyone off the island is twofold...1) He wants to be in control and 2) the less people that know about the island and what they might be up to, the better.
Codysmom, Because the Island is a Roach Motel. Others check in, but they don't check out.
BTW: Love "Duh Udders" & "Screw in the Zoo". You guys just crack me up!
LOL, memphish, Roach Motel.....
I read the same thing about the ARDIL-22 being Catch-22- but I also can't remember where! LOL I think it might have been in Doc Jensen's article?
julliette withdrawel story was a total lie, remeber ethan was injecting right into the baby and withheld the sirum from claire. Like i said the chip would be worthless if she had an immunity to whatever it was causing. I think it was interseting that they brought up the charlie killing ethan thing, cause ive been saying all season that they want payback, but now i think it could be because he inoculated himself. Maybe an innoculation buys you a ticket to the desmond past experience. The only three losties that we know for sure that are inoculated are desmond charlie and aaron. Perhaps this is why charlie is in the flashback? and i have been preaching the kate pregnancy since 3x3
We have some real comedians here. If you're ever in a bad mood and need some laughs, come on over to TLC!
i think the fact that sawyer is smart(reading books all the time instead of magazines) is why they want his genes. Perhaps his life is an experiment. Since it is probable that lockes dad is the real mr. sawyer. I think it may tie in. Maybe his parents faked their own deaths and went to the island with cheech, oh did i say island i meant mexico,er portland
re: Catch 22- Ok it wasn't the Doc Jensen article. I have no idea where I read that.
Juliet will find out about Sun, and Sun will kill her. I'll bet you $.
We've seen how ruthless Sun can be in the glass ballerina. Juliet will say, this baby is x months along, and Jin will say, I was ruining lives for your father that month, and BAM. They already set Sun up for it.
ARDIL-22 was on Dark UFO, spoilers section, in the screencaps with an explanation :D.
maybe the purple sky allows certain individuals to relive a wrinkle in time and they keep trying to get it right. I was reminded of it when ben said julie's sister dying as if he had prior knowledge. And i think ben asking for the files on the 815'ers from patchy might have been a front for julliette so she didnt see hoe diabloical ben really was. If he didnt have a part in packing that plane with useful people someone did.
hoe=how and not in the don imus sense
I was wondering is Duh Udders never really went anywhere. They just put on a show so that Juliet would be left behind and Jack would take her to the beach and become a mole. They counted on all four of them leaving Uddersville. They plan on coming right back and the gas masks were used so they can reenter the gassed areas and "clean" them out.
one more thing to back up my ben putting on a show for julliette with mihkail is no computer dossier on somebody would have all the dirty little details that they have about people like sawyer and the dude he killed. IN julliettes first flashback episode in the very beginning she passes ethan in the hall before they started recruiting her for mittlos bioscience. So i think ben didnt wanna reveal how much of events he really controls
well with the future previews it seems locke pushing 77 set something in motion, maybe they are hiding til after that so they dont get wiped out. It seems like they are getting saved but i bet it will treat the 815'ers like hostiles
keesh said Jin will say, I was ruining lives for your father that month
hahahhahahahhahahahahaha
I have to agree, it's quite funny here today.
I want to just stop going to Spoilerfix, so I don't have to bite my tongue so often here, but I can't help myself.
the book police - as long as you're off the spoiler wagon, you may want to check out aintitcoolnews.com right now. There's a Lost link on the righthand side. :)
For anyone interested, it's not too spoilery, but it does have the line-up for the rest of the season, flasback-wise. :)
Sorry, it's just aintitcool.com.
tbp... I feel your pain regarding Spoilerfix, and DarkUFO for that matter.
Yes it is Catch-22 in Portuguese.
You guys probably remember reading it in my post earlier today.
I thought it my signal a return of our listening post friends.
Oh! I'm watching an old Without a Trace on TNT right now, and Karl is being questioned! Ha, ha!
That was it. Sayid's Girl brought it over. I knew I'd avoided spoiler sights, but I've been so many virtual places today I just couldn't remember. Thanks Sayid's Girl.
Tbp: I hear your pain. Spoilers are soooo tempting, aren't they? It seems almost every site has them now (except good-ole, safe TLC).
2costa said...
well with the future previews it seems locke pushing 77 set something in motion, maybe they are hiding til after that so they dont get wiped out. It seems like they are getting saved but i bet it will treat the 815'ers like hostiles
I agree with you on this. If true, that really shows Locke in an evil light, doesn't it? Has he totally turned his back on the Losties?
You're welcome memphish
There's been alot of posts today and alot of links. It's hard to remember where you seen what.
thats for the ARDIL thing i was suspecting it was Catch 22 since thats the name of the episode. but i was watching epi sodes from a few weeks back. and i dint know if any of you have realized it seems the others follow some buddist/hindu ways. wen i was watching Stranger in a Strange Land (the one were jack is in Puket wen hes talkin 2 alex shestalking about that they might exicute Julliet because she killed Pickett. Then she says "An eye fr an eye. And for any of you who know this kinda stuff ull probly know that Confucious or some1 like him made a law like if you cut off soem ones finger you would have to get your finger cut off. Or in Juliets case she killed pickett so she is going to be killed herself. Here the exact lines.
[Cut to Jack in his cage. Alex enters and throws a rock at the surveillance camera, breaking it.]
ALEX: I want to ask you something. They're not watching anymore so you can tell me the truth.
JACK: Okay.
ALEX: Ben -- why'd you save his life? All this time -- after all he did to you and your people you should hate him. But you still fixed him up, even after your friends got away. Why?
JACK: You're his daughter.
ALEX: Answer the question.
JACK: I'll answer your question if you answer one of mine. Where's Juliet?
ALEX: She's with the rest of them. They're going to read her verdict.
JACK: Her verdict?
ALEX: And we all know what it's going to be. We're pretty strict about killing one of our own. Eye for an eye.
sooooooooooo yea just found that :-D
Sorry about the coffee Codysmom! My nephews always ask me to play that scene with Jin, and then they go around the house saying, "Udders! Udders!"
Too true about this great blog...when you're alone and life is making you lonely you can always go.....to TLC! Or...LoCo!!!
I luv ya man! :o)
Portuguese????? Didn't those two snow-camp guys speak that?
Yes Capcom, they did.
Wow....excellent ideas.... as much as I don't like Juliette, I won't rule out that she and Jack are in cahoots against Ben OR, maybe more realistically, that she's out for herself and she'll do what is necessary to achieve her own ends. Caged animal backed into a wall sort of thing...
Slightly off topic, I've been revisiting season 2... Richard Malcolm (Claire's psychic) talks about "gathering and exploiting intelligence" on people in order to pull of his psychic con. Malcom as Jacob? Maybe not... but it was a really "Ben -like" comment as he explains away the "miracle" to Eko.
Re: said intellegence, I don't think Juliette conned Sawyer and Sayid, but she sure put them in their place. Someone said it earlier (forgive me, should have wrote down your name) that you saw Sawyer and Sayid from another point of view...maybe even a more realistic point of view that we've all forgotten in getting to know their post crash-beach incarnations.
As usual Love to read your comments....which do I like more... the actual show...or reading the debreifing and analysis the next day! ???
Sorry ! It NEVER looks that long as I'm typing!
Good word choice Lisa, it really is like a debriefing after an ep. :o)
I really do wonder which one I look forward to most!
Boy I'm bleary from all this LOST talk today, plus the mere 5 hours of sleep last night. I'm going to try, try, try to take a break for the rest of the night and I look forward to chatting to all of you tomorrow and seeing what you had to say after I leave tonight.
Hopefully Admin will give us a good report on Baby Admin along with a new thread. Hope that went well David. Does anyone else think he's making another YouTube video for his family?
Catch you on Friday LoCos.
C-ya Memphish! Thanks for all your links, etc. :-)
Maven said I was wondering is Duh Udders never really went anywhere. They just put on a show so that Juliet would be left behind and Jack would take her to the beach and become a mole.
I so agree with you, Maven! I think they were hiding out until Jules left with the group and then they came back. Once they get the fence back on (plus post guards if they try and climb over again), they don't have to worry about Losties returning.
Capcom- it's bad enough to get "Downtown" stuck in your head. Now I'm going to be singing the LoCo version!
Yeah- I wonder if admin is going to be having a little Ben or a little Juliet? Or maybe one of each? HOpe everything went ok for them.
Who wants to put money down that memphish can't stay away til tomorrow! LOL - love ya memphish
What I want to know is what is so rightious about Juliet murdering Pickett and who is she to judge Sawyer or Sayid.
Hey gang!
I'm not sure the women on the Island can conceive without medical intervention. I think they recruited Juliet because her specialty was in helping women get pregnant.
But then the women died during the pregnancy. So Juliet had to stay until they figured out how to keep the mom alive. And the baby.
That's why I sort of lean towards Sun's baby daddy being Jae Lee. I don't really think the math adds up, but I guess it's possible.
And that would explain Juliet and Goodwin sharing some quality time with no fear. Juliet knew she couldn't get pregnant unless she wanted to.
On the other hand, it has already been pointed out that Ben's mom gave birth on the Island, and so did Rousseau. Maybe that was pre-incident, and that would mean that that was why Ben wanted the button to not be pushed. Remember Dharma established the button protocol after the incident to control the anomaly. Perhaps the failure of births on the Island is related to the button being pushed and the discharge of the anomaly.
could be...
damnnnnnnnnnn yall been workin overtime !!
lots of secrets on the island that we found out, and lots of answers too .
i can't make up my mind whether or not juliet is good or bad .. she obviously wants to get off the island and out of this thing, with good reason, but still is so manipulative .
what i found strange about the submarine trip is why they had to strap juliet in, when everybody else was just sitting and talking .. i think she was the only one .
the ending being 'bumpy' - idk why - that freaked me out so much . this is no ordinary island, so they couldn't just ordinarily get there with an ordinary submarine . how could they ? the island can't even be seen from above .. desmond couldn't sail off the island with his boat .
Oh, and I also think this group is a bright spot on the web!
btw, re: what to call the Others
--with apologies to Imus, we could just call them "O's"
Anyone offended?
hahahahaahaa .
im not . but i have a weird sense of humor .
This idea has been bouncing around in my head since last night. To clarify: None of this is spoilers, nor is it based off of any spoilers or rumors. It's just a figment of my crazy imagination
Season 3 Finale: "Reap What You Sow"
Ben appears at the edge of the beach camp. By the reactions of the castaways, it's not the first time he's been there that day. Various persons gather warily while Juliet steps out in front, about 20 feet from Ben.
Ben Juliet?
Juliet Call it off, Ben. We don't have to do this.
Ben You surprise me, Juliet. Why so eager to play the hero now? You've done everything that I've needed you to. (He draws a gun)
Jack He won't do it. He won't shoot.
Ben: (laughs) You've always been quick to assign your own morality to others, Jack. Juliet-
Juliet There's another way!
Ben Your work here is done, Juliet.
He fires the gun twice, and Juliet drops down. Jack rushes to her fallen body as Ben walks off, then pauses and turns around
Ben Oh, and Jack? If you don't cooperate, I will kill him. I will kill Locke. (He disappears into the woods)
wow, Darkaardvark, that was cool.
I SO hope that doesn't happen, even in the remotest sense!
great imagination, da.
darkaardvark, I'm not so sure Jack would care if Ben threatens to kill Locke.
Sayid'sgirl said...
What I want to know is what is so rightious about Juliet murdering Pickett and who is she to judge Sawyer or Sayid.
Exactly! Juliet is using a diversion tactic on Sawyer and Sayid when they try to pin her down, so to speak, near the tree. I was so disappointed that they fell for it (or maybe they were just so surprised she knew so much about them).
Hey, Gang: It sure seems Duh Udders have selected morality. It's okay to shoot one of your own (Pickett) to continue the plot that Ben/Juliet have worked out, but you put down Sawyer and Sayid for murder and atrocities.
Codysmom: I think we were also surprised that she knew so much about Sawyer and Sayid (the murder was just before he got on the plane and the Basra stuff couldn't have been page one news in the "Iraqi Inquirer").
hi, maven! Yeah, I'm wondering about the info thing, too. I'm wondering if it has something to do with remote viewing, or even time-travel/future viewing. What else could it be? Also, do you think the "Live" feed Ben showed Juliet in the Flame of her sister and "Julian" was for-real?
Maven, that's right. The stuff Juliet knew about each of them went beyond the publicly available information. That alone must have given Sayid and Sawyer pause, just long enough for Julie to get away with the med case.
Sawyer already was aware that the O's had a bunch of info on him, but Julie's little tidbit unnerved him.
I don't think it will put them off permanently, but time will tell...
hi Codysmom. I do think the live feed was for real.
but I could be wrong...
codysmon said:
Exactly! Juliet is using a diversion tactic on Sawyer and Sayid when they try to pin her down, so to speak, near the tree. I was so disappointed that they fell for it (or maybe they were just so surprised she knew so much about them).
Yeah she used their guilt against them something she obviously doesn't have. I was hoping Sawyer would say something about her killing Picket but I think you're right they were to surprised to say or do anything.
Codysmom: I'm beginning to think that Rachel's vido was not a live feed. Over at Lostpedia it was pointed out that it would have been nighttime in Miami on the playground because of the time difference. Ben is so manipulative, I wouldn't put it past him to have that footage planned in advance and ready to go when necessary. Also, there was no sound and Richard didn't respond.
*video!
what if the video from Miami was live, but the newscast about flight815 was on tape?
I looked at Lostpedia but couldn't find the time difference stuff. Where was that?
Here is it, Amused. Under "How Time Works"
maven said...
I'm beginning to think that Rachel's vido was not a live feed. Over at Lostpedia it was pointed out that it would have been nighttime in Miami on the playground because of the time difference.
Thanks for that info. very interesting!
ah, so.
Thanks Maven!
Hey guys you can correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Ben asked Patchy to bring up the feed from Acadia Park.
When I looked it up the only one I found was a National Park in Bar Harbor Maine. Is there a park called this in Miami? Of course this wouldn't change the time line cause it's still the east coast.
They prob used some made up name, since they don't have to have clearance for it.
*yawn*
gotta go peeps. C'ya in the mornin'!
sayid'sgirl, if he said Arcadia instead of Acadia, google brings up places all over the US. I don't remember, though, what he said.
I'm having fun looking at Lostpedia. I don't know why I never think to go there.
I found this on Lostpedia "One of Us", theories on Why Ben ordered Juliet to infiltrate the Losties:
She's just a decoy. Ben knows that the Losties will eventually discover her deception, which will serve as a cover for his real infiltrator, possibly Jack.
Interesting idea!
G'nite, amused! I'm starting to yawn, too!
Yes, I've found Lostpedia interesting after each episode.
Good night all...new ER tonite!
Codysmom
You're probably right.
Good night all.
Melissa_,
WAsn't it Sawyer who wasn't on JAcob's list and that is why Pickett wanted to kill him?
Andy,
I like the Langoliers connection, I've been on that boat for a long time now.
So my biggest question for the night is (and others have asked this as well, but I think I have reason to look at this closer) this......
How long did it take to walk to the Flame from the Others village?
The reason I ask this is because in the time it took for Juliet and Ben to walk there, they were already searching for Flight 815 as seen on Mikhails monitors. I don't know about you guys, but I am pretty sure the search starts after the plane crashes not AS the plane crashes. Sure they could have started from when the plane lost radio contact, but this isn't a criteria for a search to begin. Planes lose radio contact all the time as the transfer from one relay station to the next, and they have been known to looose radio contact altogether. So I can't figure out how the search started just after the plane crashed with no reports of it actually crashing.
Any following this or am I not making any sense again?
DeDJeZTeR said... Wasn't it Sawyer who wasn't on Jacob's list and that is why Pickett wanted to kill him?
No, it was Jack. In "I Do", Danny Pickett says Shephard wasn't even on Jacob's list
Pickett wanted to kill Sawyer to get revenge for Colleen getting killed by Sun.
As to the 815 coverage, the TV screens say the plane is missing, not that it had crashed. The plane lost contact at least two hours earlier. Would it have been visible on radar that far away?
Morning LoCos. Well I managed not to post last night, but I did sneak in and read a couple of times. Sorry no one took you up on your bet Scoutpost.
Dedjezter asked, How long did it take to walk to the Flame from the Others village?
I wondered that too. I'd guess the world may have started looking for Flight 815 once radio communications went out. That occurred 6 hours in and then they flew 1000 miles before crashing which would be about 2 more hours. Then I'd guess those news reports would have been a couple of hours after that because we saw our Losties leave the Flame, reach the fence, go over the fence and arrive in Othersville all in the same day, not that they get day and night right on this show, so I'd say Ben and Juliet got to the Flame in 2 hours max.
As for the mention that it should have been night in Miami. The time stamp on the papers from The Pearl indicate the plane crashed after 4 pm. I don't know if that makes a difference in Miami. Of course we also don't know what time zone the Swan computer was set to. And don't even ask me to try to figure out how the International Date Line figures in.
And I don't think that Jack and Ben are working together. The only way that could possibly happen given everything I know about Jack would be if he'd spent the last week in Room 23. It would be interesting, but I don't think so. Jack and Tom, yes. Jack and Ben, no.
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