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Thursday, April 24, 2008
The Shape of Things To Come - Season 4, Episode 9
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The Little Prince
A Separate Reality
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398 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 398 of 398I had assumed somehow that he was coming from that polar station with the chess-players in Season 2. Don't ask what puts these assumptions in my head. That's why I stay confused all the time.
A couple of items.
Capcom -- a rando is a random background character, in this case random 815ers that chose Team Locke.
I don't get why Jack and his team keep turning their backs on Charlotte. She's clearly got more info. and is the more dangerous one. They need Sayid there to torture her.
Faraday and Bernard speaking Morse code is so implausible that I'm ignoring it.
memphish: Don't discount the Morse code thing so easily.
From Wikipidia:
Operators skilled in Morse code can often understand ("copy") code in their heads at rates in excess of 40 WPM. International contests in code copying are still occasionally held. In July 1939 at a contest in Asheville in the United States Ted R. McElroy set a still-standing record for Morse copying, 75.2 WPM.[6] In his online book on high speed sending, William Pierpont N0HFF notes some operators may have passed 100 WPM. By this time they are "hearing" phrases and sentences rather than words. The fastest speed ever sent by a straight key was achieved in 1942 by Harry Turner W9YZE (d. 1992) who reached 35 WPM in a demonstration at a U.S. Army base.[7]
/wikipedia
Thanks Memphish! I was thinking that it meant random-dork maybe. :-}
Actually, knowing Morse code is not so strange. A lot of the people I worked with in my lab knew it, becuase they were into HAM radio stuff, and Morse code is required for a license. There are also other hobbies that kind of lead to knowing it. It comes in handy for boating and flying too, in case you get wrecked and stranded. Also, Boy Scouts should know it. :o)
And yes, it's time for the beachers to go get serious with Charlotte, that's unbelievable to me right now!
And there's the info I was trying to recall.
It may be hard for us to climb into Mallett's time machine, as slowing light down requires temperatures close to absolute zero.
Maven got me thinking about Ben calling Smokey. I just rewatched the episode a little while ago, and it seemed that when Ben went to the glyph door, he was kind of unsure about how to open it, and/or how to get in. I'm not sure if that means anything AT ALL, but maybe it's there to show that in theory they know what Smokey does and how to call it, but haven't really applied it as such?
Also, I just love love love Doc Jensen.
"temperatures close to absolute zero"
Exactly Kyle! Cryo chamber. :-D
Also, Doc Jensen is just so great to read!
Re the hieroglyphics on the door: Made me think of the countdown clock and the hieroglyphics that supposedly translated to Underworld. Maybe Ben's door leads to the island's underworld?
I'm leaving the translation of that door to better minds than me! LOL
Hy capcom
1) I wonder why Ben didn't pull out the stops (Smokey) against the mercs until now? Why would using Smokey be cheating the rules I wonder?
I think Ben may have answered this when he called Michael on the boat.
He wanted him to know he wasn't like Widmore. "When I'm at war I'll do what I need to do to win. I will not kill innocent people." Unlike Widmore who kills without conscience or greater purpose.
So I think using Smokie which there is very little defence against in Ben's mind would be to much like Widmore killing without conscience or greater purpose. But once the rules were broken all bets were off.
3) I wonder why Dan is still being so coy to the Losties about the time thing, what's the big deal now?
I agree with both you and Kyle I think Dan is socially awkward and if Charlotte wasn't there he'd be more forth coming. I don't know if there more to the time difference that Charlotte is afraid to share of if she just thinks the Losties will think they're crazy or wouldn't be able to handle it.
4) What's a "rando"?
Not sure but I assumed they meant random since they were talking about the red shirts. But it could be a reference to something else.
Wow In the time it took me to post that 10 more posts were added and now everyone's gone. lol Not to mention you already got most of your answers capcom.
Is everyone as intellectually blasted by this episode as I was last night? The amount of chatter seems low.
Good catch on that Ben quote to Michael: "When I'm at war I'll do what I need to do to win. I will not kill innocent people." Now, with the killing of Alex, all bets are off.
Question: When do we think that Ben's visit to Widmore's penthouse took place? It must be close to when Alex was executed, even though it was shown at the end of the hour. Did Ben slip out through the heiroglyphic door to pay Widmore a quick visit? On the island, Locke and Co. thinks he's only been gone for a moment?
maven - I thought the same thing about Ben's Secret room! It doesn't seem to show from the outside of his house at all.
And here's another question about that - Ben didn't build New Otherton, it was already there. I would imagine that people would notice him building a secret room in his house, so was that room already there when he moved in? If so, who put it there originally?
Thanks Sayidsgirl. :-)
Yes Kyle, me too. There is a lot to assimilate. Which is good, we deserve it. :-D I just hope that when TPTB say that they need to make the last couple seasons mind-blowing, that they don't just mean shootem-up and blastem-up stuff only. If they mean as intellectually ballistic as last night was, that will be good.
As for innocent-killing...I think that "innocent" may have a separate meaning for Ben the way that "good" does. He already imlpied in a few ways that "good" means anyone who doesn't try to hurt the island. Maybe innocent means the same to him? Otherwise, I don't believe him about that yet.
Dark just posted the OLVP in the spoilers section. Has anyone watched it? And does it have spoilers we should avoid?
I'll check Maven.
Hey everyone-
Kyle- I know I was intellectually blasted. I was actually just going to say that I love everyone's comments and thought of some of the same stuff, but I think I'm just still processing it all. Like just to concentrate on Smokey and what that is all about requires a lot of thought, much less the war between Widmore and Ben, etc. There was soooo much in this episode- it was so GREAT!
I have no idea what to add at this point.
Kyle- I really like the RISK analogies. That actually makes a lot of sense.
Ben going after Penny- someone mentioned Desmond saving the day- maybe they will end up being the Adam and Eve skeletons on the island where they lived happily ever after? At least I hope they do. TPTB certainly have set up the Desmond/Penny relationship to be a significant one. And I'm with Dark and those who like Ben because he is so good at being bad (you just have to love a good villian), but if/when it comes down to Ben vs. Des- the romantic in me will root for Des. (I think ;))
maven said:
Question: When do we think that Ben's visit to Widmore's penthouse took place? It must be close to when Alex was executed, even though it was shown at the end of the hour. Did Ben slip out through the heiroglyphic door to pay Widmore a quick visit? On the island, Locke and Co. thinks he's only been gone for a moment?
I think it was in 2005 because Widmore said something like Ben looked like he'd gotten some sun.
And Ben said he'd been to Iraq.
I could be wrong but I don't think the door is for time traveling. I did at first when he said he broke the rules. I thought he was going to go back in time to save Alex. But of course TPTB wouldn't do that.
I think he just used it to release Smokie on the mercenaries. I don't think his flash forward happened during the "war".
That being said it doesn't mean the door doesn't lead to some place where he can time travel an release Smokie.
It can't just be innocent people though. They'd already killed at least 3 redshirts that meant no harm to the island and they'd blown Claire's house up. If she hadn't been sprinkled with the same fairy dust they dunked Sawyer in, she'd be dead too.
What if it has to do with those famous lists? What if they've provided each other with lists of 'players'? You have different levels of players - Knights maybe? Pawns? I want to think it's significant that Ben used the terminology pawn to describe Alex.
Hmmm, what if the black smoke is a course corrector? Alex shouldn't have been killed because she was on the list - she had a role to play down the road in the game. So Ben activates the course corrector and it in turn takes out the other players Alex would have impacted.
Remember, in all this time, we have never seen Desmond and Ben actually interact...
Thanks, Capcom! I'll check back later.
maven - the OLVP is an interview with the set decorator. No spoilers at all, and rather lame.
lost2010
In Ben's mind it's Widmore who kills innocents without conscience.
Ben feels he doesn't do that.
I'm not sure the "rules" were not to kill innocents since Ben has already said that Widmore does this.
And what bugs me is why are there rules?
What kind of game are they playing?
Maven asked about the timing of Ben's visit to Widmore. As was pointed out, Ben references being in Iraq, so I'd say the flashes were in chronological order. Plus TPTB have said that flashes are in chronological order within an episode. That came up after Sayid's episode, and that's the rule they set. Now have they broken the rules? I don't think so.
Kyle
I doubt that Desmond has any idea who Ben is other than what he's been told by the Losties.
By the way Desmond and Ben were both at the cockpit at the same time weren't they? Not that they interacted though.
But Ben has to know who Desmond is with the concise files he keeps on everyone.
Did Ben know enough about Desmond from any potential Swan monitoring to pull a file on him before the Flame blew up?
I just think we're gonna see something really interesting happen between those two. They're both looking for the same girl. This is much more interesting now than "when will Jack and Claire find out they're step-siblings?"
I found it strange that Sayid questioned how Ben got off the island. It's 2005 and obviously Sayid got off the island. Why does he think Ben couldn't get off the island?
Just thinking ahead, sayid seemed surprised that ben was off the island. would it be safe to assume that jack thinks he is still on the island. if so than shouldnt that eliminate ben from the coffin?
also regarding ben wanting to kill penny. that would continue the theme of kids and there daddy issues.
sayids girl - i refresh and you beat me to my thought. pretty cool.
Maven: OLP is OK up to 9+ minutes, then starts a mini prehash. Then questions start at 10:30. The questions section does contain vague info on Jack and the title of the next ep. They talk about whether Harper was real and some other non-spoiler rambling.
They are super-silly as usual. :o)
bigdog said:
Just thinking ahead, sayid seemed surprised that ben was off the island. would it be safe to assume that jack thinks he is still on the island. if so than shouldnt that eliminate ben from the coffin?
That's a good question. But I think it's a little later in the time line when Jack reads the obit. He may know more about Ben and getting on and off the island by then. But maybe not.
bigdog
Yeah that was cool. :)
If there's an ability to travel through time out there, it just seems to me that Widmore probably sent Desmond and Penny back 100 years to before any of this ever happened - to a time when Widmore's family controlled the island and the smoke monster - a place where Ben's not safe. Thus Ben will never find them - he's looking in the wrong time. And Widmore would know that Ben never found them because it's all in the past.
Oops, let me be clear, the OL-A-P is described by me above.
bigdog: To answer your question above, no. I don't think it rules anyone out yet. Jack's TTLG flash-forward appears to be the latest in the chronology. He may not have known where Ben was, and when he read the obit, he knew enough to put the pseudonym together and realize that the last person who could get him back to the Island had died.
Otherwise, Walt's still a possibility, even if the coffin seems a little short.
re: the rules change- I think Doc Jensen brought up a good point- he says: My interpretation of ''He changed the rules'' wasn't so much Widmore and I agreed to wage our battle according to a certain set of limitations and regulations, but rather, simply This was not supposed to happen.
I can see that. That maybe it's not so much about innocents and what the rules are, but that Ben knew that since what's his face killed Alex, that something had been changed, some rule had been changed that then allowed fate to allow Alex to be killed. Of course I have no idea what the course correcting rules are...
re: the hieroglyphics on the door-
my thought was that maybe some of this stuff even predates the Dharma initiative- maybe the civilization that built the 4 toed statue built the underground tunnel system and was tapped into the island's power- and then Dharma and then subsequently Ben learned how to use and harness the powers. So basically, I'm saying that maybe the hieroglyphics and the 4 toed statue tie in together.
Ben and Charles reminded me of the two old men from trading places with their bet to see if eddie murphy could do dan ackroids job. I wouldn't be surprised if Ben and Chuck have a one dollar or euro bet on their epic real life chess game through time and space. Just as Ben seems to know that charles can't harm him as he can not harm charles, that luxory extended to family members, or at least did until charles went and "changed the rules". Just to hammer home that this is a chess game of alice in wonderland proportions, Ben had to admit that alex was just a pawn.
I believe that alex may well not be dead, ben wasnt gone long enough to give her the burial she deserved, remember the whole white robe ceremony for colleen or denny. I think ben wants everyone, especially widmore to think she is dead, because thats the basis of his blood fued now.
I thought it was very telling that widmores convo with ben was almost line for line the same convo that ben had with mike concerning who killed ana lucia and libby, with charles implying that ben killed alex by double crossing him.
I think we are supposed to think that Ben did some kind of temporal space travel if not timetravel to get to tunesia, why else would he have a dharma parka on. I think ben may use the dharma logo as his constant. Why tunesia and not iraq. I think because ben can only travel to electromagnet hotspots and one happens to be in tunesia, just as culkin said there was a healing spot in australia. The parka makes me think there has to be an arctic dharma hotspot, perhaps where they got their polar bears from, why else have dharma parkas at all, never get cold on the island or does it.
If the island is in fact a floating volcanic rock, maybe ben has the means to move the island and thats why jack and widmore can no longer find it. Maybe the island is no longer in a warm spot in the ocean.
For a second i almost thought that Ben was working on the fly when they killed alex and no longer was privy to the timeline, but i reconsidered and still think Ben is in complete control, if he had that tunnel that he used to beckon smokey to dispense with the freightys, why didnt he take everyone in there with him, because ben still doesnt want to reveal everything to the 815'ers. I think that ben let alex get killed to bring him together with the 815'ers even more, after keamy knocked off so many redshirts and capped it off with alex, its clear he has locke completely in his pocket. The only question is did ben tell smokey to kill specific people or did he just get it to go in the general area and knew it would judge all the freightys evil by their recent killing spree...As it stands hurley is the only oceanic six that has seen ben really flex his island muscle, which ties to ben's babe in the woods sailboat story to sayid in iraq, funny that he got sayid to beg to be his killer...
Itll be intersting to see if doc ray is still alive on the frieghter in the next one
I also thought it was classic LOST that just as i was starting to cheer for Ben its revealed that he is gonna kill penny, nice twist..
I also think its pretty clear that MIttlewerk and widmore were all good with the purge and the hijacking of hanso industies. Thats ties to how mittle werk said the dharma initiative was a failure in the srilanka film...
Me too Scoutpost, I think that it could be interpreted in that way as well. Could just mean, now all stops are out, no holds are barred, etc.
kyle said: Otherwise, Walt's still a possibility, even if the coffin seems a little short.
thats funny.
2 costa said...maybe ben has the means to move the island and thats why jack and widmore can no longer find it
Maybe the island's EM field does act as a cloaking device and Ben uses it to shield the island- but of course I guess he has to have a way to move it too...hmmmm. But maybe Kate and the other O6 don't want to go back because finding the island would cause Widmore to be able to find the island and if Widmore finds the island...well who knows what that is supposed to imply. But maybe that's why Kate and Hurley etc. don't want to go back.
along those lines about the O6. so Ben would be the one who set up the elaborate cover stories for them?
for all you orchid haters that said it was a hoax, me thinks that ben wearinf a halliwax dharma parka seems to imply he was in the orchid.
Am I the only one that thinks Ben did all of his globetrotting in the middle east during the five minutes he was in the hieroglyphics tunnel, and just popped back in time where he was. The way widmore thinks the island is his, makes me think ben is definetly working for or with alvar hanso. It would reason that alvar has more right to the island than charles. It would make sense that magnus passed down the secrets of the island to his grandson.
I think im in the mirority that thinks that ben knew alex was gonna get killed and he muttered the "he changed the rules" to sawyer and locke and hurley to cover his ass when they later find out he and widmore have been playing chess with them as human pawns. Thats why i think he kept Keamy alive, otherwise widmore would have no way of knowing that alex was in fact killed(if indeed she really was). Its important because it give ben his moral rational for hijacking the island from widmore permanently. I think that mikhail and the others were working with widmore as was ben, but some of his generals like tom were privy to ben plan to steal the island so to speak..
I don't think that there are any Orchid-haters here 2costa. It seems like the LoCos are pretty open to the Otchid idea, if that be the case. The Orchid station possibility is pretty neat.
Nice idea Scoutpost about why they can't go back. And as much as I actually like the idea of the island moving around from vortex to vortex, it's probably just being cloaked.
Hi all, just diving in here. Good to be back isn't it. I have done some research on the hieroglyphics. What I have says something along the lines of:
"Summon Protect Power/Strike".
The top left is definitely "Summon". Next to that is a wavy line with a semicircle with two dots on, I can't find that symbol (specifically the semicircle with the dots). However the Summon part made it clear that you need to read from right to left as it matched precisely so it probably means "push here to". Lol.
The bottom part is a little trickier as while I can find most of the individual parts (not the Ichthus type thing), I can't find the exact context. However the cross and bowl thing together could be "Inquire", "Greet", "Converse", "Get" or "Protect". The man with a weapon can mean "power", "Strike", "lesson", "Call", "Be Happy".
It could be Summon Get Call.
Really none of that is exactly shocking. My head hurts now, so I'm stopping. Btw, I didn't make any real breakthroughs with this until I went to google and typed "hieroglyphics -wiki". Lol.
http://hieroglyphs.net was the most useful site.
It is interesting that Miles the ghost whisperer chose to go with Sawyer and Claire rather than off to see Jacob.
lost2010, I was very surprised by that as well. I was sure that that was his purpose on the Island.
I feel like the four oddballs on the freighter are destined to be left behind after the paramilitary guys took Ben. Their mission would be to break down the mysteries and secrets of the Island in preparation for Widmore's assumption/resumption of supremacy over the Island.
From J. regarding the late column:
Just a quick update:
I'm on the road for a conference, and had wanted to get a post up just posing some questions we can look for answers to. End of the semester banananess, and I didn't get a chance to write that until I was on a plane to LA. I submitted that yesterday, then saw the episode, and quickly retracted what I wrote, because "The Shape of Things to Come" answered many of the questions.
So I re-submitted early Friday morning. It should be up soon.
scoutpost
That makes since. Everything's changed now. Killing his daughter just upped the ante. No more Mr. Nice Guy. So to speak.
scoutpost said:
re: the hieroglyphics on the door-
my thought was that maybe some of this stuff even predates the Dharma initiative- maybe the civilization that built the 4 toed statue built the underground tunnel system and was tapped into the island's power- and then Dharma and then subsequently Ben learned how to use and harness the powers. So basically, I'm saying that maybe the hieroglyphics and the 4 toed statue tie in together.
I like that the orginal inhabitants are involved with smokey. Also the hieroglyphics in the Swan may tie in too. It was underground.
From what I figured was the concensus was:
Widmore Corporation --> Hanso Foundation --> Dharma Initiative.
So basically, Charles funded all the Dharma initiative activities and then Ben had his uprising (purge) and took over the island.
Also, Paik Industries --> Hanso Foundation --> Dharma Initiative.
That'll be interesting.
Ben seemed to be shivering when he woke in the Sahara. Then he hurled, I thought it was obvious that he teleported of some sort, and then he threw up from the major climate change. The jacket told me he was in a sub-zero climate. Perhaps the south pole dharma stations.
I think it's evident that the Dharma Initiative was not only stationed on the island. Charlotte discovered a polarbear in a desert, which gave me evidence that there was an eastern Dharma initiative. Discuss.
J. Wood is up. It's not entirely a full column.
they say ben also blew out frost when he opened his mouth in tunesia. I beleive the island is moved, i wouldnt be surprised if the island is in a cold climate at some point, why else would there even be dharma parkas
Fenris said: "so it probably means "push here to"
Or, "If you want to summon, press 1, if not press 2". :o)
Thanks for the info Fenris, nice work!
and polar bears...
i liked how doc jenson pointed out that to go with bens indiana jones adventure in the middle east, didnt you think the black smoke was pretty remaniscent of the ark killing the nazis at the end of raiders
Kyle, I like your idea about the the F-4's post strike mission.
I'd have to see that movie again to remember what went on with the Nazis enough to compare it with Smoeky. All I remember is that some faces were melting off. :-D
Most intriguing, capcom, is the possibility/likelihood that they don't even know it's their mission. They'll just be plopped into an environment that completely appeals to their individual interests or goals.
Dan: quantum physics and perpetual nerd-dom
Charlotte: DHARMA
Miles: voices, Jacob, apparitions, and a grave full of diamonds to boot
Frank: personal vindication of a belief that the 815 crash was staged
All four are so drawn in to their interests that they'll choose to stay and end up doing Charles' grunt work for him, without noticing.
Kinda sounds like a certain bug-eyed freak we know (making them think it was their idea).
Hmmm, interesting thought. Do you mean, as in they have no idea that Widmore intended to drop them there forever? Could be. Maybe they think that they are just there to scout the place out and leave? Not nice of Widdy.
Capcom: Thanks for the heads-up on the OLAP!
I like the idea of Ben's door being part of the civilization that was involved with the 4-toed statue and the tower that Cooper was tied to. Whomever controls the secrets behind that door, controls the island.
The more I think about your idea Kyle, the more I think that Dan and Charlotte may hopefully change their minds about being so faithful to their mission. If Miles comes back to the beach all in a reformed tizzy, and tells them about how cold-blooded the mercs are, they might stop being so secretive for survival's sake. Maybe.
Right Maven, that makes sense, and I hope that it's true!
A very emotional episode.It could have been even better with more music to accompany those scenes.
Scoutpost & Maven mentioned a prior civilization connection to the door and tunnel system.It reminds me of that vampire movie where their hangout was built over an ancient Aztec temple where sacrifices were made.
Modern heiroglyphic translation:
To call for a major can of whoop***,press here.
Sweet episode, the monster rushing through and attacking the soldiers has to be one of the top moments of the series, gave me chills.
I don't think Ben was actually refering to actual Rules, like rules set up between two parties and agreed upon, but rather implicit rules, like "you asked for it, the gloves are off."
The time paradox doesn't seem to have much of a pattern. Sometimes the island seems to be ahead of time, like with the corpse coming in, other times it is behind time, like with the rocket coming in. Hmm, time really is relative here. What do you think Einstien would think of this show?
Ok, just throwing this out there, but at the finale of this season, some crazyness is going to lead to Ben jumping through time to 2005, maybe similar to how Desmond did it (twice mind you). Which brings me back to season three. When Des went back after the hatch exploded, what was with the old lady? Are there beings that exist between time? Once again, I'm LOST.
Great episode! Great thoughts, Locos!
Could it be that whatever saved Sawyer from a 100 bullets also saved Claire from burning up in an exploding building? Is it the same thing that kept Michael from committing suicide?
You know I'm wondering about the time travel and Orchid station stuff. Guess I'll have to wait to hear about the Orchid station...
But you know we talked a lot about the significance of Desmond's time travel being just a mental thing- not a bodily travel. And now here is Ben who seems to obviously (unless I totally misunderstood) have traveled
bodily to Iraq. So am I understanding correctly that we are seeing 2 kinds of time travel here?
Is there some kind of time travel "machine" in the Orchid that allows Ben to bodily time travel? And if so, how does he avoid the obvious problems with that? Could it be that he will not encounter problems with body time travel because his only body and life exists on the island and very little he could do in the "real" world would affect him or life on the island? (Ok I don't know if I'm making sense). Maybe he is some kind of transcendent person- maybe he is has course correcting abilities like Hawking and Brother what's his name. I don't know, is anyone else clear on this who can explain?
Interesting points Will.
And good call Barbarajay! I didn't even think of that, of course my cynical self just thought "cheezy luck". :-)
Not a clue Scoutpost, I'm just going to have to go with the flow on that one. But you raise a good point about how there seems to be two forms of time travel exhibited in the show.
Scoutpost, I agree there are 2 types of time travel. The Orchid method which is mostly controllable and the slipping when you go through the barrier method which is not controllable and which can lead to death absent a constant.
Here's a couple of other things.
1) It finally makes sense why the Freighter mission is not just to kill Ben. As Ben can't kill Widmore, I'm guessing Widmore can't kill Ben--just everyone around him. I'm still not sure why they can't kill each other, but I'm guessing it has something to do with course correction, which as Barbarajay points out is probably why Sawyer and Claire have survived for now.
2) The second point is a literary one. If Ben is Moriarty, arch nemisis, does that mean Widmore is Sherlock Holmes? And is Holmes/Widmore a good guy? I've never read any Sherlock Holmes, so I can't say whether or not he's 100% good or an ambiguous character.
Here's an interesting idea that I'm totally steaing from Jon from NKY on another blog.
does anyone else think that Charles Widmore might be Jacob? A version of Charles Widmore that exists between places. That's why Ben can't kill him.
I've got my mind wrapped around this concept, but I haven't worked through all of the possibilities of this theory. At least we know now that you can exist in 2 places at one time because of The Doctor washing up on shore, and alive and well on the freighter at the same time.
I guess the one thing that argues against this idea is Widmore's inabilty to find the Island. Though maybe not. Maybe Jacob's trapped on Island as the rest of the world is in essence trapped off it.
Well, Holmes isn't 100% good (if you can say that about an egotistical coke addict), but he is certainly on the side of good, or right. More so than we have seen Widmore being. Holmes would not be cruel to someone like Des, he's got a heart.
Oh...shit...the ending scared me and made me say: Poor Desmond. If he makes it out of the island...
Ha! capcom- I forgot he was a coke addict! I used to love to read Sherlock Holmes (when I was much younger), but mainly remember the cases. Totally forgot about his habit.
So regarding Jack-
I'm thinking after he shook down Dan that Jack began to realize that not only are the freighties NOT there to rescue them, but that by making the sat phone call, he is fully responsible for bringing all of this on the island (as Ben had told him). I wonder if this guilt is part of what eventually plagues him in TTLG and compels him to try to find the island again. If he gets off the island because of the appendicitis, then maybe by the time he recovers from it he goes through a period of just being glad to be back in the real world... but eventually the guilt gets to him? Just speculating.
It is going to be really interesting to see what "horrors" transpire on the island in the next few episodes. I hope that they fill in some of the blanks- like helping us understand why Jack wants to go back, and who needs the O6's help (according to dead Charlie), and who Abaddon works for , etc.
I wonder if the healing properties of the island will affect the deaths of Rousseau, Alex, and Karl? I wouldn't think Karl and Ben didn't act like he thought Alex would come back, but Rousseau has such similar qualities to Mikhail....she was one tough cookie...it would be cool if she popped up again. Not gonna get my hopes up though.
memphish said...If Ben is Moriarty, arch nemisis, does that mean Widmore is Sherlock Holmes? And is Holmes/Widmore a good guy?
You know ever since Ben told Michael that they (the Others) were the good guys, I have had this gut feeling to believe Ben. I've had no idea though how in the world with all that he's done that they would make me believe that. But now that we've seen Widmore and what he's done, and the way the story is going, I think it becomes easier to believe Ben. I think TPTB are aiming to make us like Ben, but then hate him for going after Penny- they always talk about how the show is very character driven and they've taken care to show us both the golden side and shady side of most of the main characters. How good and bad co-exist in each one...so I am wondering if that is what they are setting us up for with Ben. It would be very clever to find us rooting for Ben all of a sudden, even though we know his past and that his goal in the future is to go after Penny. What a contradiction.
I've just watched the episode after bittorrenting it.
I have to say I've missed 300+ comments, but it's going to take me a while to read them.
I'm a bit shocked at the amount of death in the episode, quite a body count.
I loved Dan's comment that the doctors death and appearence on the island is a matter of relativity.
This episode further cements my opinion that the final scene of the whole show will be the plane crashing and Jack waking up smiling due to some sort of time reset / course correction thing.
Didn't Hurley say that Australia was the key to the game they were playing? This seems like a really obvious reference to Claire. What is she the key to? Everyone's survivial???
Or Aaron Brendan. Both his parents are Australian.
After reading all those comments I suppoort the theory that series 5 will be mainly off island with flashbacks on the island.
Ben's state when he arrives in the desert seems to me that he is escaping from somewhere, i.e. it was a rushed job and he had no time to discover where he might be going.
If Ben did leave the island did he do so knowing that someone was back there looking after it ? Possibly Locke.
By "If Ben did leave..." I mean of course "When Ben left..." :-)
i think that Ben summoned the smoke monster, but as cusedorph said in the podcast that he might not have complete control of it. I think that ben covered himself in jacob cabin ash to protect himself and the people directly around him from the smoke...
I think as i said yesterday that hawkins course corrections were part of "the rules" and Ben is using the death of Alex to obliterate the rules. The rules are for all intents and purposes are the board for widmores and bens chess game. They probably have a rule where they cant kill each other, or maybe even directly kill at all. Maybe Ben always has someone else do his actual killing to avoid getting blood on his hands,manson style, because then he would lose. Maybe widmore is trying to goad ben into killing him so that ben loses
SOmeone pointed out that on the freighter doc ray had a scar on his cheech, but when he washed ashore it was a freshed stitched cut and perhaps thats the key to Locke being able to walk cause his body is travelling backwards in time.
I also enjoyed the fact that ben said he wanted to go to the differnt house because it was easier to fortify, but it was probably more because he had his secret secret hatch in there...
I also like how ben threw up thee same orange gunk that julliette had to drink before she went to the island, when he landed in tunesia
It's major yardwork day at my house, and that means I've listened to 4 LOST podcasts today. And here's what I've got.
Lots of people are talking about Widmore and Ben playing a game, and that makes me wonder if both of them are neutral as opposed to good or bad because most games -- chess, backgammon, Candyland -- you don't really pick your side to be good or bad, you just pick your side or color. I think we probably need to stop thinking of good/bad per se, but rather about who is playing to win and how far they will go to do it.
It kind of makes me think how being the banker in Monopoly can be an advantage because it's easier to cheat if you're the banker. It also makes me think of kids on a playground taking their ball and going home when they don't get their way. Obviously playing by the rules was huge in the episode, so it will be interesting to see how that's going to play (pun intended) out.
More later!
It's later! I've put some polls up on my blog. Stop by and vote and discuss.
LOL Scoutpost, I read Holmes when I was a kid too, but I never realized about his little "problem" until I was an adult. I wonder if a child's mind just doesn't catch that?:-) I always liked how Holmes seemed to have an affection for the innocent humble folks and an aversion for the arrogant elite who thought that they could get away with anything, almost like Dickens did.
Yeah, what about those healing properties?! Why is the island letting Jack get sick? Does it not care about Jack? If the island doesn't need Jack, I don't think that it's fair that he gets off the island. :-p
Zort, I'm taken aback by all the killing on the show now too. I hope that it doesn't remain a shootemup type storyline from now on.
It would be nice to get our hands on the scripts for this season, DarkUFO posts scripts sometimes. Then we could maybe read something like: "Ben is lying on the desert ground in a parka, looking dazed because he just jumped through a stargate time tunnel in a chamber at absolute zero, after his arm almost gets sliced off when the wormhole closes, and spits up the yellow time jumping juice that was given to Juliet.....etc." I think that the directions that the actors get could tell a lot about how we are supposed to interpret what's going on. Although I realize that a lot of the time the actors say that they don't get that much info.
maybe the island is getting jack sick to get him out of the line of fire for a while or force him to leave, even if people are left behind. Maybe ben has a chip in jack like clare and is makeing him sick inorder to bring the locke camp and jacks camp back together
Thinking about the "fresh" scar with the Frankenstein stitches on the check of the ship's doctor: On the freighter, the laceration is healed. When he washes up on shore of the island it's a fresh wound. There has to be more of a time difference between the island and the freighter than just 31 minutes. I think this laceration is a big clue to there being more a time difference in the real world. Even Dan infers it depends when "when" is!
All this time jumping stuff...all I want to know is how or where I need to go to be 25 again. Where are those answers when you need them? ;)
Hey Guys,
I thought I'd follow the October 24th thought through. Here are things that happened on that date:
1593 - Alleged Teleportation of Gil Perez1648 - Peace Treaty between the Holy Roman Emporor and the King of France (and respective Allies)
1861 - First Transcontinental telegraph system was completed (nullifying the Pony Express)
1945 - The United Nations was ratified.
1995 - A total solar eclipse is visible from Iran, India, Thailand and SE Asia.
Don't know if any of those have any sort of connection, but lots of interesting stuff. (Thanks Wiki)
here's a random thought: What if Smokey is what is created/released every time the time portal is activated? So it's not actually summoned, per se, but the byproduct of the time travel itself?
Just sayin'...
Scoutpost: LOL How wonderful would that be?!!!
Interesting thought, Amused! I still think Ben went to 2005 when he went into his secret room, and just maybe Smokie does come when the portal is used. Locke, Sawyer, Hurley think he's gone for just a moment in island time.
i rewatched shape of things to come yesterday to see if i missed anything. One thing that i can say is i dont think ben did his globtrotting while in the glyph room or tunnel, but the producers almost tried to mess with us a little bit as to whether he did. It was already clear from the audio podcast that it was probably a differnt time. Ben must be in a better standing with the island because his wounds from the beginning of the season were all almost healed, what was left looked like redness. I noticed that when Ben touched down in tunesia he didnt have a mark on his face, but after he went to the hotel his face was sunburned to look sort of like his almost healed face in othertown. I noticed a glass of the orange looking tang on the table just as Ben ran into the secret^2 room, but i think that was just subterfuge to have us asking when this tunisia jump was happening. Added to that fact when when Ben emerged he was covered in soot or dust just like he was when he traveled through the desert.
I used to think that Ben knew every nook and cranny of the timeline, but i think he knows what happened the first time he lived through it and that just gives him an advantage, but not complete control. Example when sawyer went to get claire he told him not to and when sawyer came to the door with claire he said not to open it. This bothered me because i was thinking if Ben knows whats going to happen why bother putting up a fight, but what if Ben has lived this rough outline before and every chance he gets he tries to get other people to do slightly differnt stuff to affect the timeline. Bear with me, if its like groundhog day and every time it plays out Ben can try a redo. Perhaps this has already played out and the first time Ben didnt tell alex and rousseau and karl to go to the temple, perhaps keamy came to othertown and killed alex anyway. So ben tried to tweak the timeline and head keamy and the boys off at the pass and have her leave before the raid, but to his amazement it didnt work. Well then ben was looking for little tweaks that make a difference. He told sawyer not to go fo claire because he thought that might make a difference, but since sawyer ignored him no change, next he said not to let in sawyer with claire because that would alert keamy as to what house they were holed up inside and subsequently lead to miles getting sent to the door. So bens next move was to say not to let miles in because if he never talked to keamy , then he prolly wouldnt have killed alex, until he had a chance to tell ben what he was gonna do. When that didnt work Ben tried to intyimidate keamy by knowing all the details of keamys life and telling him to turn around, when that failed he was left wiith one option and that was to disavow alex as his daughter so there would be no reason to kill her, but the problem here is that if there is some kind of rule where Ben and widmore cant hurt each other or each others family, ben gave keamy the go head basically to kill alex by making it clear she wasnt his blood. Even Ben couldnt have known this was gonna happen and he couldnt be such an ass to think alex hearing ben say she wasnt his daughter would be a cool last thing for her to hear. As forthcoming as ben seemed to be to locke and the boys in this one he was still holding back. He claimed his house would be better to defend strategically, but it was probably more so because the heiroglyph room was there. Woulnt that room or tunnel have been the best place for all of them to hide from keamy, instead ben leads everyone away from that hatch.
lets use back to the future for example, the car in that movie could go back to whatever time mikejfox wanted, with no toll on his mind, so if ben had that kind of luxory hewouldnt have been too sad about alex, cause he could have went back and made a tweak to save her.
Well it would seem that if ben has a timetravel machine in the orchid its not an exact science. If it was Ben would have known what dialect to speak when he landed in tunesia and he would have benn certain of the date and the year, the only other possability here is that, as evidenced by the gash on his arm in tunesia that ben was rushed into his timewleap and may not have knwon exactly where he was going and to keep with the game analogy was playing the hand he was dealt. It seems like, considering ben claimed to use desmonds baot to escape and widmore used desmond to find the island that both men use what they can. It almost like a game of texas hold em in the sense that everybody shares the cards that are one the table to augment the hand they are actually holding. In this sense desmond is a table card that chuck and ben both use to complete their hand. In the big picture Ben and widmore are playing capture the flag with each other with the island being the flag. I always assumed that widmore planted desmond on the island in order to find it, but what if ben brought desmond into the mix in order to find penny???
Now this brings me to an important point. Lesser men like minkowski among others have lost their minds from just some light time tripping, just as eloise. This brings me back to the back to the future analogy, in that you can go anywhere anytime with no toll, but what if Ben only has a certain amount of time jumps in him, before he goes insane or has an aneurysm, even with the help of his time travel tang. THe lack of control over the orchid and the travel itself only has a tipping point, like when they used to say people could only trip on acid a certain amount of times before they go insane. The producers ahve said that everything on the island comes at a price. If you call smokey or whatever. So this notion helps me to understand why Ben was trying to get jack not to call the frieghter, because that was just a little tweak he was trying, when that didnt work he tried other stuff. If what im thinking is true that even the most mentally stable peple only have a certain amount of time jumps in him it would make sense that ben would be grooming someone else to do some of the timejumps for him. To me that can either be locke, jin, or even claire that he is wanting to do that. Maybe thats why they are trying to seperate claire from aaron so that she can be bens time jumper. Maybe thats why ethan gave her the bitter stuff in his canteen(orange time tang). Maybe ben had her microchip make her seem ill so that she could get another shot of the dayglow yellow green stuff. Perhaps ben didnt want claire around him because keamy could track her with the chip in her head. Also im left wondering if jack has a chip thats making him sick as a "i told u so from ben" or if the island is making him sick as to say you were wrong jack. Whereas sawyer cant seem to die if he wants to, he seems to have his island mojo going full tilt. I would also add sawyer to that list of possible time bandits that ben is grooming...This all leads me to beleive that ben has knowledge od what is happening, but hes just playing the averages and doesnt have complete time travel control or access, and he actually does have to consult jacob on what to do next. This has brought me full circle to thinking jacob is an old beardy jack. Jack has to leave the island in order to gain insight about the future and get old and even if its not jack its someone thats old and been around long enough past the present to tell ben his next best move... just some thoughts, but i defentily think that no matter how good at it or chemicall yprepared he is Ben cant travel through time endlessly because it would take its toll on him one way or the other. Maybe the course correctionist like hawkings are part of the game in that if ben or charles changes the timeline too much it will reneder both of them insane or dead, from their mind not being able to keep all the parralell realities straight in their minds?
another thing is ben had a serious black eye before he went into the glyph hatch and not a mark on him in tunesia, but had no arm gash in othertown, but one in tunesia, plus he would have to have done a complete clothes change so the soot was probably to protect him from smokey and not desert dust. It obvious that sayid in iraq is not privvy to everthing that happened on the island, that why bens cover story about using the elizabeth(which incidently jives with him using desmond as much as widmore, even though he prolly didnt need to use that boat) had him sailing to fiji, where as we probably know that the island isnt there anymore, but ben doesnt even want sayid to have any clue where the island is. But at the same time it seemed implied that some stuff will go down on the frieghter to show sayid that widmore is an ass. I just have a sense that bens orchid parka adventure hasnt been shown yet, not the beginning where he barely makes it out with a gash on his arm...
Haven't read your whole post yet 2costa but I have to agree with you. I don't think Ben time traveled when he went through the hidden door either. I think that was a flash forward just like all the rest of the flash forward. I think the room tunnel or whatever is behind that door is just about smokey.
Each of them using Desmond, CW to find the Island, and Ben to find Penny...that's an interesting theory!
If Ben has lived this timeline before, then I think Alex's death shocked him because in the past she never died. He really thought he had it under control, and could count on some things remaining constant. Alex's execution was new, and it changed the whole game for Ben.
If I were Widmore I'd be afraid, very afraid.
I like your Groundhog Day tweaking 2Costa. The only problem I have with TPTB doing a looping thing is that to me that plus Mrs. Hawking's course correction fails to really change anything. It changes the details of your death, but not the fact of it. I'm not a big fan of this sort of fatalistic approach.
I do think Ben understands for the most part the Orchid. Ben asks the clerk to confirm the year. He thinks he's in 2005 and asks her to confirm. He doesn't ask because he has no earthly idea what year he might be in.
Ironically, the people who think that Ben had no control over when Ben went also want to think that Ben had Nadia killed. I don't think those ideas reconcile with one another.
I also agree that we did not see Ben travel when he went into his closet. I think those events while possibly related were not one and the same trip.
The big unanswered question to me right now in terms of whether or not Widmore should be afraid, is how much like Ben is Widmore? Can he too see or relive past, present and future events? As I heard on a podcast, at this point we're still having to make a lot of guesses about Widmore, his intentions, his motives where as with Ben we've learned much more about what he's capable of and how his mind works. Widmore though could still turn out to be a real baddie or the real good guy.
i agree meemphis that ben has a rough idea about the year hes going to, but i think his changing dialects shows that location might not be static, but i also think that there are certain magnetic hotspots that the orchid can send u too, or else why wouldnt ben just send himself to Iraq. As i said the gash on his arm makes it seem like ben may have been in a hurry before his orchid leap so that might explain the lack of precision. I think the important idea i stumbled on is that Ben only has a certain amounts of timeleaps that he can do without it killing him or making him insane, its the kryptonite that makes the drama in the story, becaus eif ben was a true time lord none of this woudl have anymeaning, just as if god really controlled everything there would be no free will and widmore and bens game seems like its a battle over peoples souls, using manipulation and the pawns free will to make the game a real uncertinty as far as outcome. As far as all this goes memphis i am not convinced that the course corrections are real, or rather unforced, i think ben or widmore are keeping the course corrections because they like the timeline as it is, maybe how widmore made his fortune. I think that widmore encouraged the purge and may have already had richard working with him. Mittlewerk and widmore bankrolled ben since the purge and Ben has now recently double crossed chuck. I think that ben was trying to kill charlie before(lightning,cliff,crossbow) the looking glass to avoid the signal ever being unjammed and avoiding all this mess,and also if im right that claire may be a time jumper for ben they needed charlie out of the way or if they want aaron still, that may be why miles went with claire and not ben, but widmore was sending desmond flashes to save charlie so he could eventually un jam the signal(at the time i thought it was a chess game between unseen forces for charlies fate,through precog visions) . As i guessed before i think that mikhail and richard and even tom are as loyal to Widmore as ben,thats why mikhail showed up to save naomi and later tried to steal her phone. Their confused loyalty is why ben them in harms way, because people like tom liked going to five star hotels in NY on widmore's dime. I think that in meet kevin johnson and shape of things... it interesting that these events are 2005 or earlier, and that would line up with mittlewerk and widmore still controling the hanso foundation and the helgus being in full swing and at least a few months before Alvar took back the foundation. It would be an awsome twist if Sayid or Ben was in part responsible for hugh macintyres death or dr zander or any of the other widmore associates that died in the lost experience.????it might explain bens renewed urgency in 2005(iraq) to protect the island because mittlewerk and widmore have another island finding mission planned with the helgus antonius.
I also noticed how ben spared the one tunesian and only killed the first one in self defense.
One thing that the 2005-FF make me wonder is,how does Widmore lose the island after he has already found it again? I mean, the freighter is there. They've sent the helo back and forth. They know where they are and that this is The Island. So that means that somehow between 2004 and 2005, Wid loses the island again. There could be many reasons such as, all the freighers die, Ben moves the island, etc. For some reason, Widmore has to start looking all over again. Hmmmm.
Also, it would be funny-weird if Ben gets the O-6 off the island via the Orchid transport system and that's the reason why only 5 1/2 people (5 adults and a baby) can be rescued...because only that many people can fit into the chamber at one time. I don't really think that's the case, but it popped into my head.
I've been hearing ideas Capcom that the Island is indeed on the move and that's what's up with the time differences between the Island and the Freighter as exhibited by Faraday's timer and now the dead doctor.
Capcom: That's a great question about why Widmore has lost the island in 2005. Of course, we don't know that whole story yet of what happens with the freighter crew, but one would think that the location was confirmed to Widmore. Moving the island would make sense, but I need some plausible science or even sci-fi to go with that theory.
The scene with Widmore centers around Ben being upset that the rules were changed and Alex is dead. Has it taken a year for Ben to find Widmore in his penthouse and confront him and threaten Penelope? Or is Alex's murder in 2004 fresh in Ben's mind and he travels to 2005 to confront Widmore?
Fishbiscuit's recap is up on her blog. She has some great things to say about game theory.
Right Memphish and Maven, there's that possibility as well! I don't mind that theory at all, in fact someone, somewhere, (so many blogs, so few brain cells) likened it to Alcatraz which supposedly really is detached from the earth's crust because it is a floating volcanic plug. Me likey! :-D
Thanks for the head's up on Fishbiscuit's fantastic re-cap, Memphish. I, too, love the game theories. And it does seem that Ben is the new Jack. I think I remember reading that Michael Emerson was originally signed for a few episodes, but he just blew TPTB away. I wonder if the Ben character was meant for someone else to play and then they had Henry Gale become Ben to keep the actor. Ben is sooo central to the story now, the character must have been part of the original story outline.
It looks as if Fishbiscuit is on our side about the stoopid scene with Kate "washing her boobies" as Fish puts it more or less. :o)
i think the alkatraz theory is all thats needed to explain why its on the move, now picture alkatraz with a wormhole time machine on it, you could move alkatraz anywhere with water
perhaps the differnt themes of artifacts on the island can be traced back to the differnt places it(the island) can be staged, maybe sometimes its hidden among the greek islands, then the red sea, then in the artic, brrr better make some dharma parkas, i guess the parkas could just be from when they rangled the polar bears..
Interesting 2costa, about how the island could have gotten its various artifacts. That goes well with Fenris' (I think) idea about how different civilizations could have been inhabiting the island at various points in the past. Makes sense, if the island picked them up along the way.
Just a general comment on LOST itself-
it is so interesting (and good writing/planning) that just as we get a lot of answers to our questions and we actually think that we're getting somewhere, that it's revealed that there is so much more to the picture and we still are missing big gaps in story. I mean I think about all the stuff we've learned this season alone, only to find out there is still so much that we don't know! I thought we were closing ground with the FF, but they have just opened up a whole other can of worms! That's really what is so great about this show (and so frustrating ;0).
And...that's a good thing Scoutpost?? Heheh, just kiddin. :-) I agree, tons of fun for us to talk about.
FYI...Here is what is being said is the Rachmaninov piece that Ben was playing (played by the composer):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wddtne7KSs&feature=related
Fascinating choice. Like Scoutpost says, TPTB just keep throwing the juicy nuggets at us to learn and think about.
Well, the show had definitely taken quite a different turn than what I (and I'm sure a lot of us) first thought when I started watching it. It's not a show about survivors from a plane crash. It's not a show only about a strange island. It's not a show about a hippy commune trying to save the world. It's not even a show about "we were here first"! It's definitely evolved in so many other directions. The producers are certainly telling a great story!
I saw 1 person, Vozzek maybe, who was complaining that there was no way TPTB could know this was where they were going when they created the show given the info. we know about Michael Emerson's casting, but I disagree. They always knew there would be a leader of the Others, but until they saw how wonderful ME was they hadn't decided that he would that leader. And you can also see they had Widmore in mind as early as Fire + Water where they put in the Widmore easter egg on the factory even though we don't meet Charles and Penny for 10 or so more episodes.
E's Long Live Locke recap is up on her blog. I like her recaps, but I usually get tired of reading them before I get to the end. I was very happy to see her land shark picture though. I've been waiting for that ancient SNL reference ever since Miles rang the doorbell.
I agree Memphish! A writer can certainly know the general outline of how a story will play out, and the details can be filled in along the way. And that's exactly what I think happened with ME getting inserted into the Other's leadership role, like you said. It's like how they didn't have a permanent actor for the first Jacob scene, but of course they will (hopefully!) when we really get to see him (hopefully!).
Oh wow. THAT'S where I heard that puh-ding before! Candygram! Too cool. :-D Yeah, we were talking about that here after Ezra first showed up!
So I'm trying to work on this time traveling dilemma we've been presented with and want to run this by everyone. Here's the scenarios I can think of.
1) Desmond -- upon going through the storm around the Island his consciousness travels back and forth from his 1996 to his 2004 body; it's unclear whether or not that is also what happened when he turned the failsafe key or if it was just the case that his 1995/6 consciousness knew things that would occur in the future; we never saw blackouts in that episode, so I'm assuming that "time travelling" was different from the time travel in The Constant
2) Minkowski -- TPTB have said he travelled the same way Desmond did in The Constant, i.e. his consciousness moved between time periods with resultant blackouts when he was absent from his body
3) Bunny 15 in The Orchid -- we see 2 bunnies in the same time and space and they can't be allowed to touch, the 2nd bunny presumably arriving from a different time (and space?)
4) Ben in The Shape Of Things To Come -- his body travels at a minimum through space; unclear if he also travelled through time -- leaves as an outstanding question whether or not he exists in 2 places on Oct. 24, 2005
5) Dr. Ray -- dead on Island; fine on boat (assuming boat Morse code person is not lying) at the same time people are talking on boat and on Island. Seems to be there are 2 bodies existing in the same "time" or is it the case that people can communicate from one time to a different time and there is only 1 Dr. Ray's body at each time? (Head cramp.)
6) Juliet's travel to Island; Tom's travel to/from NYC; Alpert and Ethan's travel to/from Miami -- is there time travel involved in any of this? What about when Ben and dad arrived when Dharma was in control? Is one reason people aren't permitted to leave the Island because they are in some sense duplicated and their "home" body dies in a mysterious accident while their "Island" body survives. This means relatives don't wonder what happened to their loved ones. What about Cooper's trip to the Island? And what about the freckage?
Needless to say, I've got a lot of questions. As we've discussed, I do believe what happened to Desmond is different from what happened to Ben. I hope when all is said and done, someone (Darlton) will sit down and explain all this. In the meantime, if anyone else has ideas, let me know.
memphish
On your number 1 I think he just jumped back when he turned the key. He was probably unconscious on the island but since he didn’t go back and forth he wasn’t unconscious in his past. And I think Ms. Hawkings may have course corrected him. Not sure.
Number 4
The jury is still out on that one for me. I think he at least expected to travel through time, why else ask what year it was.
Number 5 Yes that is a head cramp. I'm not sure if they're trying to show that the Doctor is in two places or not. Or it's just the last time I seen him was ok.
Number 6
I don't think any of that was time travel. It was just know how to get off of the island. And I'm still not sure why they can't leave the island.
Just when you think you got it figured out. :)
Memphish: Thanks for the listing of all the time/space travel we know about now.
Re #5 with Dr. Ray: I think there's an important clue in the fact that the dead doctor on the beach has a freshly stitched laceration (with the biggest stitches I've ever seen) and on the freighter he has a scar. This leads me to believe that there is more of a time difference between the freighter and the island than the 31 minutes shown in the rocket experiement. His body went back in time as he neared the island and his scar became a stitched up laceration.
Also:
Re #3 and 4: In the Orchid Video we see 2 Bunny 15s who can't touch. Are TPTB showing us that whatever portal is in the Orchid Station or behind that door splits the traveler so they can be in two places at once?
Just saving my place.
O kay so I can't really add much to all this great insight you guys have gleaned from this episode.
However, the one thing I have not seen discussed yet, is the fact that, as has been said (under different context) Bernard knows Morse Code.
This now gives them a chance at decieving the Freighter people to come to the island or just ask questions of them because they won't really know if it is Faraday on the other end or not.
This is the New Dharma Symbol : ) ------------^
Olerica said...
1995 - A total solar eclipse is visible from Iran, India, Thailand and SE Asia.
Does that mean that we are crossing over with Heroes :-)
2costa said...
The parka makes me think there has to be an arctic dharma hotspot,....
Penny's listening post at the end of the second series was somewhere very cold, that could be the reason it was there as there could be evidence of Dharma activity in this area connected with the island.
Ben wakes up in Tunisia, so it isn't only a matter of time it is a matter of space as well.
I think it has to be a wormhole that they are using, as if you enter a wormhole a time dilation effect would be present. Also if the wormhole starts and ends at fixed points in space, but not anchored to a fixed place on the earth, then it would be a complete mystery as to where you would end up if you entered one end of it.
For example take a tube with an orange at one end, drop a marble down the tube and mark where it lands. Then rotate the orange in any direction, and drop the marble again. The same start point was used and the same tube, but the marble lands in a completely different place. Now imagine the tube is bent and it's opening is at another part of the orange.
That would mean though that to enter one end of it consistently you would have to be tracking the wormhole, i.e. the island is moving with it, or possibly just within the mouth of the wormhole. Which could explain the following the bearing / time travel if you don't, situation.
So following the marble / orange theory you could sent the marble in and have it appear at the same point in space (just slightly earlier in time from when you sent it), which could explain the Orchid rabbit.
Here's the exact transcript for Ben with the hotel clerk discussing the date:
BEN: Yes. Um, today's date is...
NAJISS: October 24th, sir.
BEN: (Embarrassedly) 2005?
NAJISS: Yes, sir. 2005.
Thanks Lostpedia!
To me this shows Ben did end up where he intended to end up, timewise, though he realized things might not end up that way. It's funny to imagine alternate dialogue. "2005?" "Uh, in 12 years it will be." or "Not for the last 3000 days."
Maven, your idea that the doc who is dead on Island, alive with a healing wound on the boat, and dead on the Island with a fresh wound that hasn't started to heal really, really makes my head cramp. :) But it would be interesting.
Dominic Monaghan on MadTV.
ok, that was just sick...
funny, but in a sick way.
thanks Memphish!
I just thought of something:
I've been trying to figure out how the Freighter Doc could be "fine" with a healing scar on the freighter and dead with a newly stitched gash on the Island. The gash/scar is what has confuzzled me, it just messed up every theory I came up with.
But what if someone in the future traveled back in time and killed the doc right after his gash was stitched, threw him overboard? He'd still be alive for now on the boat, since futureAssassin hasn't killed doc yet. Kinda like Eloise, who learned the maze in a future she would never live to see.
Ow. I need some orange tang.
Hey, book clubbers -
The VALIS podcast will be this Thursday at 6 p.m. EDT. We just wanted to get your minds nice and messed up before the next episode. :)
I'm finally listening to the audio OLP and it's interesting the comments Darlton makes about birds slipping through time if they leave the Island on the wrong bearing. Does that mean that the book Charlie attached to the bird's leg will indeed show up again before the end of the series. I also like how they said Ezra J. Sharkington is very old. Reminds me of Joop.
doc rays scar might be like lockes legs, his body is travelling backwards in time
Thanks for the MADTv link, Memphish. It was funny, but creepy! LOL
2costa: I think your theory about people traveling back in time as they approach the island could explain the island's healing powers...such as Locke's legs, Rose's cancer, and Dr. Ray's boo boo. But that wouldn't explain Claire's pregnancy. Maybe it just have to do with physical problems with your body: like disabilities, illnesses, and wounds.
well maybe thats the heart of the fertility problem, maybe thats why claire was so late her baby got a week younger then a week older, in island time two weeks late but to the baby born right on time, maybe thats why they gave claire the bitter orange time tang to stick aaron in time.
i was thinking about it and maybe ben has some kind of power like desmond, desmond had all kind of precog flashes of charlie, but didnt go insane whenever he would foil charlies death, thus changing the future, maybe changing the future doesnt give you the deadly nosebleed just changing the past. So what im saying is maybe ben has little flashes of the future and then just trys to manipulate the present as best he can. I still think its possible that dan never taught eloise the maze after desmond showed up and that caused her quick death by creating a time paradox, where she knew the maze but was never taught
Hi all, happy Monday!
The Vile vortices theory going around speculates that maybe the DI set up their Orchid apparatus to travel via one of the vortices to get around the world (time or space wise) through wormholes (if that's the way TPTB are going). That is, all the vortices are connected in some way and the island seems to be within the vortex close to Australia. Some of Tunisia is just barely in the vortex in the Sahara. Ben travels to the Tunisian vortex (the closest one to where he wants to go) and travels normally the rest of the way. There are also vortices at the poles as well. Anyway, jumping around through vortices corridors could solve your situation of wormhole paths, Zort.
Here's a map of the Vile Vortices that's been going around:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/58/Vile_Vortices_Map.png
As for the birds, I was wondering if they would even be able to get out of the storm barrier, so that Claire's little project would just be a waste of time, because the birds never actually leave.
I like the idea of them using the new telegraph to trick the ship into communicating, Ded. :-) I hope that they do. The ingenuity only seems to go so far on this show, it would be nice to see someone carry a good idea on through to the next logical advantage.
I guess the African vortex could be close enough to Nigeria to explain the drug plane. But none seem terribly convenient for travel to/from NYC or Miami. Of course, convenient is a relative term I suppose. And should Ben have an instant inflatable raft with him, like the astronauts, just in case he lands in the ocean (where most of these are?). Or does the little black stick do that as well?
Well, the vortex that's on/near the Bermuda Triangle is close enough to Miami. And the Tunisian one is close to Nigeria as you mention, so they might have passed through it on their way out. But like the Vortex theorists say, once you get to the other side, you do have to do some conventional traveling to go the rest of the way to your destination.
Hi all! Waaaayyyyy back, Memphish said: When Sayid tackles Ben, it seemed like he was expecting it to be someone, but not Ben. Who would Sayid think was following him?
I thought the same thing. I don't know of any relevance to the main ideas in this episode, but it has to be significant, right? I mean, you guys catch SO much more stuff than I do, so me catching this must account for something!
Not to sound trollie or whiny, but I've been a devoted fan of this show from the beginning and found this particular blog at the start of this season.
But, I have to say, that if not for this blog, I would be 100% lost, pun intended! I know it's intentional, but this episode highlighted the method of storytelling very prevalent this season (although certainly the style through the series), which is where an answer unleashes 5 new questions. It's become a bit too much to where I've given up trying to solve this as they go along.
I feel teased, with little hope that all these questions will be answered before the series ends.
I'm forced to fill in tons of holes myself (luckily, there's this excellent blog to help), but is there anyone that can help re-affirm my faith in this show? I REALLY enjoyed "The Constant", which lost a lot of viewers, but this one may be another tipping point. My loyalty, or faith as Locke would say, is being tested.
rubygreeneyes said:
Hi all! Waaaayyyyy back,
Memphish said: When Sayid tackles Ben, it seemed like he was expecting it to be someone, but not Ben. Who would Sayid think was following him?
I missed memphish asking this qestion.
My thought is he thought Ben was a journalist/popatatzi[sp] taking pictures of the funeral. When he was about to punch Ben he said You vultures folowed me here. On the tv Ben saw Sayid on, he was surrounded by them probably because he's one of the Oceanic Six.
He said he just wanted to bury her in peace.
Wow Googs! Thanks for the complimentary post. I hope you'll keep commenting with questions you have about the episode because I'm sure they'll spark discussion. And there's nothing we love better.
Rubygreeneyes -- I think that Sayid was expecting a vulture-like member of the press rather than Ben. Several podcasts have suggested that, and I agree since Sayid says to the press when Ben sees him on TV that he wants to be left alone, and Ben has that enormous lens. (There's probably a joke there, but I'll leave it alone.)
For anyone who has never bought any of the LOST DVD sets, as of tomorrow, Amazon is offering all three seasons for 1 low price.
Sayid's girl and I were typing at the same time. :D
googs said:
I REALLY enjoyed "The Constant", which lost a lot of viewers, but this one may be another tipping point.
Wow really!? The Constant lost, LOST viewers? That's hard to beleive. That was my absolute favorite episode of all four seasons.
As far affirming your faith in LOST I'm not sure I can do that.You either believe or don't beleive you'll get answers. I think we'll get answers to things that are important to the story. We may not get answers to every "huh?" moment we get though. Like what happened to Montand's arm. Hey maybe he got caught in a vortex. lol
Anyway I hope you keep the faith. I think you'll be glad you did in the end.
heh heh Great Minds huh memphish.
To me killing Alex like they did was way worse than any mind-blowing Constant-ness, but I do know casual viewers who didn't like trying to figure out what was going on in that episode. I was tempted to edit out Alex's murder when I was erasing commercials from my DVR, but I didn't. It still makes me queasy to think about it though.
I'd just like to find the last disc of Season 2 mine got scratched and now it freezes up.
I thought about going to a movie rental place and see it they would sell me just the one disc. If they even still have a season 2 disc.
memphish
Killing Alex was the second most OMG moment since Michael killed Ana Lucia and Libby. I didn't see either one of them coming.
Michael's killing was more shocking than Keamy's. There was a fifty, fifty chance that Alex would be killed the circumstances were different than with Michael.
The one death I have the most trouble watching is Charlie's. It was so sad. I usually look away half way through.
On another topic. Sometimes I wonder what the casual viewers are expecting from a character driven mystery show. If they don't want to try and figure out the mysteries why are they watching in the first place? It's been apparent from day one that's what type of show this is. Sorry I'll get off my soap box now.
Well Sayidsgirl, I think that a lot of peeps (myself included at times) are afraid that this mystery show will not deliver answers to the big mysteries that unfold, because as Googs said, everytime we get one answer we get five more questions and it just sends your head spinning. I think that the casual viewers expect eventual answers to pop up here and there for some viewer payoff.
Sure, this ain't yer grandfather's mystery story, it's kind of a new breed. And I think that some viewers don't realize that. I myself love twisty mysteries, but I get impatient with this show a lot, I'll admit it.
FYI, Sawyer840 has posted any interesting deciphering of the glyphs on the Smokey door.
http://sawyer840.blogspot.com/2008/04/hyroglyphics-explained.html
I've isolated the post in the link here, so there is no danger of seeing the spoilers elsewhere in the blog.
Off-topic, but Emilie de Ravin was within 100 miles of me last week! She was just signed to appear in Michael Mann's period gangster piece, Public Enemies, and it's been filming in Wisconsin for a few weeks now. Hooray!
Well I guess I'm one of the very very very few that don't expect the big answers until the end of the series. I guess I expect if they give me an answer to a smaller mystery that they will have to give me another mystery until I get to the big pay off at the end. And I'm sure there's a big pay off because it would be pointless otherwise. And I think these guys are pretty good story tellers and thats the logical end.
Or maybe I'm not as easiy frustrated. And even as a casual viewer of a show I'm the same way. It would be ok I see what type of show this is I like it and continue watching or I see what type of show this is and stop watching. I like this type of show if I didn't I would have stopped watching after the first show. There was a show on Fox New Amsterdam I really wanted to get into but just couldn't so I stopped watching it.
I guess my confusion is not being able to understand why people see a scene like Ben landing in the desert in a parka and then expect to find out how that came about next week or even next month. Most mystery books I've read let you know something unusual in the begining whether it's a murder or robbery whatever. Then you get alot of clues (which I relate to Ben and his parka)and some red herrings along the way. And if it's a really good writer you don't figure it out until the end. But it's fun trying to along the way. I'm really sorry for the long post but I'm just trying to explan my confusion. I'm really not trying to bash anyone who has other expectations.
I like to learn a little something along the way to the end, myself. :-D
That's just it I feel I have. :)
Ah well. It's good to have some good people to vent my confusion too. Thanks!
Happy Monday LoCo's.
Memphish you summed up the time travel dilemmas well. I wonder if part of "what" Ben is (as stated by Widmore) is that he is able to time travel differently than the regular Joe. Unfortunately I can't explain that any further. :p
I kind of feel the way you do Sayid's Girl- I don't get frustrated much with the shows mysteries because I guess I'm naive enough to believe they will answer them in the end. And...I think that we will be pleased with the show when it's all over. I don't necessarily expect them to go back and address every mystery, but I think the final answers will be laid out and then we will have to go back in retrospect and see how all the little details fit in...so I think that may frustrate a lot of people.
Goog- I'm glad you found our site and glad that it is helpful to you. I have some friends who are casual viewers and they struggle with the show too, if it weren't for this group I would be lost as well. But the thing about this blog is that it helps you process all the info that gets thrown at you, helps you notice things that maybe you wouldn't before, helps you keep track of minute detail that is almost impossible to do on your own, and it helps you get answers to things you may be clueless about (like quantum physics and rocket science). I hope you'll stick it out to the end of the season with us and see if it makes a difference in your enjoyment of the show.
Great discussions going on today gang! Nice to see Googs and Rubygreeneyes here, too.
Most people like their TV wrapped up in 1 hour (or really 45 minutes). They don't want any extracurricular activity involved to understand anything. They want answers.
I made hubby sit down and watch the Orchid video before he watched last week's epi because I said it was important to the story. I had to promise that it was only a few minutes long! He watched it, had no comment and said let's just watch the show! He was definitely humoring me. And when I mentioned the Orchid video to some casual viewer friends, they were not interested in it at all! Of course, LOST is like a layered tapestry. You get so much more out of it by stripping away the layers and seeing what lies beneath the surface. My frustration is just that my husband and friends are missing so much to this story.
I always hit a brick wall trying to discuss each episode with these casual viewers. Thank goodness for TLC!
A couple of interesting things from the comments about the episode on Pop Candy:
9. Nifty wrote:
There is a time portal/wormhole that connects Tunisia to the Island. That's how Ben ends up seemingly fallen from the sky in the Tunisian desert. That's how a polar bear skull is excavated from the Tunisian sand. And that how a small prop plane can take off from Nigeria and end up on the island. The proof: according to Google Earth, the coordinates for 'Tunisia' are: 33 deg, 53 sec N and 9 deg, 31 sec E. The polar opposite of those coordinates is: 33 deg, 53 53 sec S and 170 deg 29 sec W. If you follow those coordinates, you end up....just NE of Sydney, Australia in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, enroute to LA, and not far from Fiji.
And my favorite explanation for Ben's parka:
10. YFMF wrote:
people keep asking why Ben was wearing a parka when he "landed" in Tunisia.
Haven't you people seen "Back to the Future?" was not the Delorean covered in ice every time it time traveled?
I like the idea of a worm hole. Don't know if it will have anything to do with time travel or the Orchid Station or not, but I do like it.
I don't know if the travel causes the coldness or if Ben traveled from a cold place. That's kind of up in the air for me.
I like the Delorean explanation though.
I can sympathize Maven! When my sister started to talk about how good the last episode was, and I said, "...and yeah, how about that Smokey?!" And she said, "What's Smokey?" I don't even think that she noticed it! There's just a level that some viewers can't go beyond. Personally, I don't even know why they would watch if they don't like the bizzaro aspects of it. :-B
i was thinking, before i mentioned that whoever dharma or subsequently Ben chose to mind the island would have to be good physical and mental canidates for the work on the island, much as nasa puts its recruits through a battery of tests. If danielle's story is to beleived three fourths of her crew succombed to the virus or maybe the island unstuck cabin fever. As i mentioned the 815'ers seem to be all doing quite well as far as unstuck sickness, and maybe were chosen for that particular quality,you wouldnt want your basic support staff on the island to be time trippin' or dying. Much like desmonds seems to be a great canidate for time travel since he doesnt get the aneurysm bloody nose. Ben too may possess this special quality. This brings me to my new thought, if widmore truly wants to protect the timeline as it stands or at least be the only one with access to precog events then he probably wouldnt want people like desmond around mucking up his plans, maybe the virus that mittlewerk designed is meant to eliminate all the people in the world that are predisposed to these precog flashes so they never become a threat to widmores money and power???
the other day when some one mentioned the new particle accelerator i went on a rant about the higgs boson particle and wormholes and i read the popular mechanics article about lost and cusedorph mentioned both of those things in relation to lost. the higgs boson or god particle or as i think of it the glue or binding particle. This particle should account account for most of the mass in the universe and the difference for why we are instead of are not(since our atoms are always moving slightly, we are actually not really here ,if here is defined as being in one place at one specific time, we are just more likely here than not here, the transporter technology on star trek would have to have a good grasp on this notion(higgs boson particle) in order to turn mass(person) into energy and then back into the person, which has to be the basic principle for bens corporial travel he did last week...Even any wormhole in einstiens universe you have to be traveling very fast to reap the benefits of popping in a worm hole taking a short cut and popping out somewhere else, on lost its probably the orchid that makes this process possible without destroying the cargo so to speak
Thanks for mentioning the Popular Mechanics articles 2Costa. I saw them the other day and then got distracted before I could read them. There's the debunking article and the Darlton interview. It looks like they have a link to a podcast as well. I have not read/listened for spoilers, so proceed at your own risk.
2costa said: "on lost its probably the orchid that makes this process possible without destroying the cargo so to speak"
Right 2costa, this is where our suspension of disbelief will have to come heavily into play! :-D
I saw a Delorean driving down the road in Madison today. Cracks me up every time I see one (not that it's that often).
Not to halt any remaining talk, but thanks for being my John Lockes, folks. I actually don't even consider myself a casual viewer (I hopped onto Find815 immediately, but missed The Lost Experience, chalking it up to a marketing ploy - that was a mistake!). So I am new here, but I am a Lostie.
Anyways, I will continue to trust in Darlton, as my frustration has subsided and I've resigned to the fact that I simply won't get certain things until they tell me. Every time I think I got the time differential or the constant thing figured out, they throw something new in that ruins my theory! That last scene with Lex-Luthor-like Ben and can't-kill-me-Widimore is what set me off - - that one scene potentially changed the entire show's reality and I felt a little duped as a result. I just hope Darlton ultimately quenches my thirst for answers, even though already the smaller questions from the previous 3 seasons (i.e., the arm) seem to be long forgotten. Maybe those will be for us to answer once we finish Season 6, but I haven't decided how I feel about that yet.
Many thanks!
Hey, guys - I just posted a LONG interview with Michael Emerson over at Spoiler Fixed - complete with a Ben glamour shot. :) Enjoy!
Thanks Melissa_Lossa! I'll check it out soon.
When we were talking about the cold Delorean, it made me think about what was going on in A Wrinkle in Time when they tessered. Wasn't it cold then too? In some of the later L'Engle books, when they travel through time there is the possibility of being attacked by Ecthroi. Some similar attack during time travel could explain Ben's injury.
The other book this episode brings to mind is Of Mice and Men. Now with Ben's loss of Alex, he'll be even more sick inside since he has no one.
Stick with us Googs, we'll help you through it. :-D And each other too. Now you can help me resign to the fact that I simply won't get some things ever, haha. I think that the main drawback is that everyone's head has latched onto their own favorite mysteries (like for me, one is the blast door map), and if some of those mysteries are not the ones that TPTB choose to answer or reveal, then it will be tuff-noogies for our hopes and dreams of getting certain particular answers. :-)
Great connection you've made between OMAM, Ben's reason for clinging to Alex, and now the depth of his loss, Memphish!
Oh, and the Amelia Other vs. Amelia Earhart mystery is another one that will crush me, if TPTB do not answer it.
Thanks Melissa_Lossa for another awesome Spoiler Fixed post!
Ooh memphish- I like the Ecthroi idea- although I have no idea how that ties in exactly. Maybe Smokey attacks them in that inbetween realm.
FYI, David over on "Eye Am Sick" blog posted this about Ben vs. Charles:
"I think the reason Widmore and Ben know they can't kill each other is that the two of them, though warring, are still "discreetly" fighting, under the nose of Dharma. The food drops are continuing, and whatever is left of "Dharma" still thinks everything on the island is ok. I think Widmore knows Ben usurped everything, but perhaps his investor co-horts (Paik? anyone else?) do not, and Widmore figures he can pull a "Ben" and take over everything himself. This is what their war is about, and one killing the other would open too many doors of inquiry and bring in the outside players (investors) from the original Dharma."
I think it's a valid idea (assuming that the DI is still operational at the upper levels) and am putting it in my bag-o-thoughts on that subject. After working in a mega-corporation, I can attest to the fact that the upper echelon has NO idea what's going on down in the trenches. :-)
capcom thats what i was saying that as of 2005 the world hasn't been alerted to widmore and mittlewerks subjigating of the hanso foundation. Even if Ben fought of the freighties in 2004, the helgus antonius is slated to go to the island, so widmore has taken up ben on finding the island and succeeded. I still thinks its possible that ben is working with marvin candle,like bens hallliwax parka or the degroots and even Hanso. Like i said maybe ben was secretly behind tle and exposing mittlewerk and widmore and putting his ally alvar hanso back in control of the foundation. It might play into the notion that alvar might have been in mikes room in keving johnson...
"Like i said maybe ben was secretly behind tle and exposing mittlewerk and widmore and putting his ally alvar hanso back in control of the foundation."
Me likey, 2costa! :-D
Talking of being super cold when travelling through time / worm hole I just remembered that in the Stargate film (not the TV series) that they got all frosted up when they went through the Stargate.
Bingo Zort! :-)
which begs the question ,why is it halliwax has his own monogrammed parka, did marvin candle regularly time jump or go to the artic. Just maybe its cold in that part of the orchid or the jump itself. I really hope candle /halliwax is still alive on the island or elsewhere and maybe even one of Ben's allies, remember Ben said he was one of the FEW,who were smart enough to survive the purge... good thoughts capcom, zort
Halliwax may be alive but stuck in transit at the moment, he may appear at any moment ?
Don't you just hate those commutes to work :-)
This is OT but I just finished watching the movie The Golden Compass. It's a movie for children but there were alot of topics in it that are also in Lost. It was kind of funny I'm watching this movie and I kept thnking about Lost.
The ice bear (polar bears) kingdom is at the magnetic north pole in Svalbard. There is what was refered to as an expermental station in this area. There's a man trying to find a way to travel between different worlds and universes. And something to do with particle metaphysics. And a war that is about to be waged over free will.
Sayid'sgirl - I hadn't picked up on the similarities between the two but the film was a bit of a mess, IMHO, and it did end in a very odd place compared to the book.
Right 2costa, that stuck in my head too when Ben said that about "the few". As for the monogrammed parka, if it's required protective apparel for experiments, I know that my lab would have them personalized. No one wants anyone who doesn't have good grooming habits to be using their protective apparel, I used to hide mine! :-o
You mean, maybe like.....Jacob, Zort???????
LOL Sayidsgirl, and interesting info.
zort70
Yes it was a bit of a mess. But I usually don't expect otherwise with childeren's movies. I never read the book but I'm sure it was much better. I'm asuming they ended like that to have a sequel. But not having read the book maybe there isn't anything else for a sequel.
Josh Holloway Yunjin Kim made TV Guides sexiest star list.
New Ack Attack recap is up.
Ack attack is was hilarious.
"Good morning angels, good morning charlie."
and the gilligans island reference.
and of course the eeeeeeexcellent.
always love when I get to laugh during the work day.
Well it looks like we have to wait for DarkUFO to get back before we find out what our standings are in the Lost Fantasy League this week.
Sayid'sgirl - They ended it before the end of the first book, which would have been a great ending. There are other books and it is going to be interesting to see how they deal with the end of book one in film two
New Episode Fun!!
Episode 42 - The Shape of Things To Come
Join hosts David A Dein and The Goog as they explore the episode "The Shape of Things to Come." Here's an episode that will define the future of the Lost Community, that is if the Lost Community decided to jump through time in a parka!
To join in the fun of the Lost Community Book Club/Podcast send an e-mail to TLCpodcast@gmail.com or call 206-202-3512.
Great podcast guys. I think we all first thought that the WAR was going to be the Losties VS the Others. But we now know the WAR is Ben VS Widmore.
Why is Jack getting sick on the island? Why can't the island cure him? Is it because things that happen on the island (like Jack's appendix and Ben's tumor) can't be corrected if it occurs on the island. The island can cure Lock's legs and Rose's cancer because these things started off-island.
I still think the freighter is the one ahead of time on the island. The clue is Dr. Ray's boo-boo. On the freighter it's a healing scar...on the island it's a fresh laceration with really big stitches.
I like your take on Smokie. Ben might be able to summon him, but he can't control him. If Dharma could summon it, why would they build the sonic fence? Most likely they couldn't control it.
Re your questions:
Ben said those awful things re Alex because he didn't think she'd be executed...the rules of the game were changed.
Ben's smirk as he walked away from Sayid said it all...Ben got what he wanted out of Sayid...to willingly work for him.
I think the O6 are somehow very integral to this Ben/Widmore war, and they were all manipulated somehow to be on Flight 815. They will eventually all work for Ben in his struggle to win the island for once and for all from Widmore.
googs - Hang in there. I almost LOST interest after The Constant. But they've reeled me back in with this one. You're episode is probably just on the horizon.
Probably already linked by someone who reads USA Today, but Ain't It Cool had an exclusive interview with Michael Emerson yesterday.
Can check it out here:
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/36558
NEW POST!!!!
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