ABC teases that, in tonight's episode, "Kate's need to get information out of the hostage may jeopardize her standing with Locke -- as well as with Sawyer." All I really care about is why the heck they're calling the thing "Eggtown". Surely there's more to it than someone making eggs...
Thursday, February 21, 2008
Eggtown - Season 4, Episode 4
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391 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 391 of 391FYI, TPTB have warned us against reading too much into the discussion between Jack and Lapidus. They specifically stated that Frank was referring to the 2004 World Series when they discussed the Red Sox.
my kid could say mommy at one but maybe kate has been awaiting trial for a year and aaron is 2, you cant discount the rocket coming 31 minutes late or the chopper not arriving back at the freighter for a forty minute flight(forty miles) in a day or walts rabid aging, but walt left a lot earlier
ya i think its been about a year to the islands 90 days not three years or even two, but walt left way earlier so hes got a head start
i dont think the flash foward are the chronilogical end of the series i think they are the 3/4 point and sayid and jack may end up going back to the island. My question is does jack know aaron is his nephew in the future?
So if its just a year the white sox won the series the next year
the time thing is what daniel is not telling them, thats why they were stalling not calling the freighter to not raise suspicion. Daniel is smart enough that he can prolly do the exact calculation of the time gap, our hands are tied because they clipped away on the show, but maybe they said it was 31 minutes later..
thats why daniel said this is not good when the rocket came so late. In order to build all the infrastuture on the island i dont think it has aways been the way it is now or how could they ship all the metal and stuff. The reason the old swan film just warned against contacting the outside world was just to hid ethe island, but after the incident which i dont beleive is the purge, because the purge doesnt explain candle having one arm, outside conntact had to be strictly forbidden to protect the timeline, becaus emaybe the island is becoming more and more out of sync, especially becaus ethe swan is now imploded, perhaps the swan kept the island on a one to one ratio with the outside world
2costa said... why say there were eight survivors when they could say six
We need a name for the two Oceanic 8 people that are not part of the Oceanic 6. 2O8? O8-6? O2? Nothing is coming to me...
I think whatever they are called, if Kate is NOT passing off Aaron as her own child, then Claire has to be one of the 2O8.
2costa said... wonder if locke has even found bens secret room yet?
Didn't he "catch" Sayid as he was coming out of the secret room?
2costa said... the enhanced episode from last week ... seems to confirm a hole in the magnetic field to exit the island the exact coordinates.
Huh? What gave you that impression? BTW, I typed up all the enhanced episode comments for "The Economist" and posted them here. See my post at 2/21/2008 06:07:00 PM Also, the "Confirmed Dead" comments are posted in "The Economist" thread.
well maybe they used the sub to bring stuff there because they did use the sub all the way back to when ben came to the island, but that speaks to the magnetic field and not the the time thing
dennis one of the comments form the economist was walt and mike were allowed to leave the island, it didnt say they thought they were being allowed, so that points to bens coordinates that he gave mike and said take these exact ccordinates, just like daniel told ladipus to take exact coordinates, and from the scenes from next week it seems they have to fly right into the eye of the storm to escape, remember daniel said go to these bearings no matter what
2costa, you gotta appreciate the difference between "confirmation" and "support." You've got a lot of theories that you are very sure of, but there's no "confirmation" until we see it on the show or hear it from the producers' mouths.
And your comment about the Swan keeping the one-to-one ratio with off-Island time is the best comment of your bunch. It's been speculated before, and now that we know how time differs on- and off-Island, I think the case is even stronger for the Swan having that purpose.
i think walt may be one of the oceanic 6 and mike would then be 7 or 8 is he doesnt make it or as we said if kate doesnt claim aaron is hers then the other two could be a cover story for his birth, but the way kates mom acted points to the theory that kate is trying to pass off aaron and she didnt want her mom to see he has no resemblence to kate
agreed kyle, but i think "walt and mike were allowed to leave" is confirmation
ya most of what i say is just theory take it or leave it, i am right about 80 percent of the time
i think as messed up as ben is he really is one of the good guys
i have been saying all along that ben is still in control and from what weve seen ive been right. if the swan was keeping time in order then it speaks a lot to ben wanting the swan disabled before he let walt leave beacue for the island time thing to have any advantage it would have to be out of sync, as i said i think ben may want walt and aaron to age in order to fufill their ultimate destinys
2costa: i think "walt and mike were allowed to leave" is confirmation
Yes. It's confirmation that Ben gave them a boat and didn't shoot them dead or sink the boat or something. We don't have confirmation that they made it to any specific location. Nor is there confirmation about a magnetic field being a shield or wall around the Island. That's still just a theory at this point.
Good to know you're confident of your prognostication abilities. I'm not sure we've gotten to the point where anyone can say they're "right" to that degree, though. Lotta time left in the series.
maybe the time dissruption on the island isnt linear maybe it jumps all over the place, back to the past or whatever. I was thinking that the dharma bear in tunesia wasnt a fossil because it was right at the surface, but i saw a thing in real life where they find million year old dinosaurs like that all the time in the saharra, which makes me think sometimes like when desmond went back in time the island makes a huge time anomloly, which might ultimately explian who adam and eve were to or why the pearl shot out tubes to nowhere, maybe it wasnt always nowhere.
i mean up to this point ive been right that much, im not referring to any of my current theorys, if im right they will have to explain the time thing and the magnetic force fireld soon
80 percent isnt that great 100 percent would be better
just caught up on comments. Couple of things.
I definetly don't think Michael and Walt are part of the 6. There is no way the other 4, especially Hurley, are going to let Michael benefit from the fame after he killed Libby and Anna Lucia. I just don't see it happening.
Even after sleeping on it and hearing all the arguments about Kate adopting Aaron, I still think this is some of the most concrete evidence we have that time passes differently off the island than on the island. It's the best evidence yet to explain why Richard Alpert hasn't aged much, and the only explanation for Kate's mom thinking Kate realy had a grandson. Right now they have been on the island something like 90+ days. Let's assume another 90 days to get rescued, another year for Kate to go to trial. How do we explain the fact that Kate has a 2 year old baby? Kate's mom seemed pretty definitive it was her grandson. I think they would have worded that deferently if he were adopted.
I am more certain that ever that Jack's reasons for not wanting to see the baby is because of guilt. If Jack learns pre-rescue that Claire is his half sister, there is no way Jack leaves her behind. That leaves the possibility of her being dead. If Jack doesn't know she is his half sister, he would not want to see the baby because of the extreme guilt he feels and that we see overwhelming him at the end of season 3. Jack has always carried a big burden. I'm just not sure if he made a deal for the 6 and that's why he feels guilty, or just because he is living a lie which goes against his moral code. The only person we have seen Jack lie for is Kate. He wouldn't even lie for his dad. The story we have seen so far only reveals that they made thw wrong decision for leaving the island, but not why they feel that way.
You should move to Vegas with those odds. Who do you have in tonight's Memphis/Tennessee game?
In other news, Doc's column is up.
kyle i think we both can agree that next weeks episode will shed some light on the time thing and the field around the island. Another thing i was thinking is that maybe christain was on the island before and he became an alchaholic because he wanted to go back like jack in the future. If their is a huge time problem then maybe the christain that we saw talking to vincent wasnt the dead christain but christain from another point in time
Good morning Lostketeers:)
Dennis said...
I was thinking about Kate and her mom, and it's a very sad situation. He mom basically disowned her, and now the reasons she wants to see Kate again are based on two lies - that Kate was a hero, and that Kate had a baby.
good point!
Codysmom said... OK, raise your hand if you thought you'd hear a big BOOM right after Locke leaves Miles with a grenade in his mouth and then they pan to Kate and Sawyer lazily waking up in bed? (my hand is raised)
Maybe I should rephrase that: Raise your hand if you were cringing with the thought that you would soon hear a loud BOOM right after Locke leaves Miles with a grenade in his mouth and then they pan to Kate and Sawyer lazily waking up in bed? (and, of course, you don't hear anything, but I really thought I would)..nm
i use my powers for good kyle, gambling would just be waste, thatsmore up miles alley, i could see him trying to place bets to vegas on the satalite phone to exploit the time thing
I still Michael is Ben's spy. I really want to see this part of the story develop.
By the way, all of this is my opinion. Just want to make sure people don't think I beleive it to be fact.
Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...
You should move to Vegas with those odds. Who do you have in tonight's Memphis/Tennessee game?
The only correct answer to that question is Tennessee. That answer I am of sure of.
My guess is that Michael is going to be reintroduced in a way none of us are expecting.
And diggity, we'll see what memphish has to say about that, but methinks she'll be none too pleased with your pick.
agreed kyle i think your right on the money with mike. i was under the impression that eggtown was a refference to the barracks being eggtown under lockes rule. Seems short sighted to kill the chicken, but i guess it depends on how many he has. I wonder is animals can breed successfully on the island, if not maybe thats why the boor population seems to be dwindling. I seem to remember something about sawyer in his dossier that richard gave locke that said something about france, i wonder if that ties to elsa speaking french to her boss
diggitydirge said...I am more certain that ever that Jack's reasons for not wanting to see the baby is because of guilt.
I tend to agree with this but also I have been thinking randomly on it...
If Aaron is the key and/or very important to what is going on, could it be that Jack is afraid of him.
Walt can make birds smack into windows and die, Walt can also appear out of the blue...maybe Aaron can too and he is a threat to Jack right now.
Maybe Jack really did do something to Claire or was somehow responsible for whatever happened to separate she and Aaron, and Aaron and his 2 year old brain is really mad about that.
PS: Diggity I agree with your "opinion" about Michael too...unless he appears in the delivery room when Sun is giving birth shouting MY BAAAAAABY...but that is only a totally random thought I have been toying with.
Morning all. It seems we're all having some problems with this episode. I just think the main purpose of it was to explain to us how Kate is living the good life, seems content with the lies, and is not in jail since leaving the island.
Hubby, who is a bench officer, said legally the DA still had a good cause to prosecute even if their "star witness" clammed up. There were plenty of other facts and witnesses to Kate's long list of crimes. He just can't believe how TV legal problems are solved so easily! LOL
Here are some more qustions from this episode:
1. How does Miles know that Ben can pay a 3.2 million dollar "extortion? Apparently, he knows Ben has a lot of money and can get it to him. Where is that money coming from...how did he get it growing up on an island?
2. The Aaron/Kate/Claire situation is very weird. Most likely Claire didn't make it off the island and entrusted Kate with Aaron. The cover-up story, which makes Kate the hero, was that Aaron was Kate's and she gave birth on the island (just like Claire did). The world thinks it's her baby...her mom wanted to see her grandson. Jack is just tormented about that lie (amongst all the others) and can't have a relationship with Kate because of that (even though he still loves her). And Kate can't see him if he can't accept Aaron as her own.
3. I think Memphish said that Locke is basically hypocritical since he's now living the life of Riley in New Othertown and not living off the island. It's so strange that everyone has made the transition so easily (although Claire did mention that getting used to beds will take some time.)
4. Also, agreed that the hand grenade scene was over the top with Locke. I'm sure hoping that is a dud.
5. The previews for next week were more interesting than the episode! The time discrepancy with the helicopter is another example of how times moves differently on the island. I think it was 2costa that suggested since the Swan imploded, maybe time has gotten away...the station was somehow keeping time under control. Interesting.
6. I think they came up with the 8 survivers and 2 didn't make it story to add credence to their lies. It also makes Kate a bigger hero. I don't know why whoever is behind the lie wants her to be the hero (and not Jack).
has there ever been a reference to egg town in history or literature ever before lost? Because now thats all you find if you google it, seems crazy those two wrods have never been put together before
FWIW, Elsa didn't speak French. It was all German, all the time.
the judge had such a weird name that i thought he might be part of the conspiricy like when the cops were part of the party in fight club, like there are sleepers everywhere, it was pretty favorable for kate that he let jack testify, usually those character witnesses are there for the sentencing phase, heres an old question why did kate rob the bank just to get the toy plane??? will that ever make any sense, is her stepdad ever gonna be on again?
that want french after she shot sayid? i thought it was but i didnt pay close attention
The reviewer for the Onion AV Club seems to think the DA in Kate's case was an operative working for Abaddon.
And no, 2costa, that was German. It was pretty terribly subtitled, and not very well-written (compared to how an actual German person would phrase things), but it was German.
Here is a wild theory.
Is there ANY chance that Claire is a member of the Oceanic 6? And if so, why would Kate have her baby?
And speaking of babies, what was with the comment between Sun and Jin...
Sun: I want to raise my baby at home, in Korea
Jin: You mean our baby.
ya just rewathced it you were right german the whole time, but the enhanced comment when daniel told frank the bearings to take it referred to ben giving mike the bearings 325 when he left on the boat and said that both mike and daniels bearings were tied together and are clues to the true nature of the island..
the sad thing kyle is a speak fluent german and took three years of french in high school, just a mental lapse on my part i was half listening from the kitchen when it was on
A-ha! Finally. Found it.
Egg-town, revealed.
And now I see it was already on Lostpedia. Crap.
Vozzek69's recap is up at DarkUFO's. He brought up a good point: Why are the O6 alive and off the island? Even though they might be under surveillance, why were they basically let go, told to lie after some deal was made, and left to live the good life? Why weren't they killed (or left behind)? Wasn't whomever's behind this taking the chance that one of O6 would break down and reveal the truth (or is the truth too crazy for the world to believe)? Vozzek69 thinks they O6 is still needed for something.
so i think thats some kind of confirmation if you couple it with the enhanced comment about mike and walt being the only ones allowed to leave, someone said it is just proof they were given a boat, but thats not true desmond had his boat and since he didnt have the bearings he sailed around in circles. I think the magnetic shield or whatever is tied to the time thing but they are not the same, as i said they were taking the sub there all the way in the wayback, but the time anomoly may be more recent
Thanks, Kyle. So the title does refer to the "Let's Make A Deal" theme!
thats what makes me think somehow they get off the island themselves and oceanic has to deal with them begruddgingly, maybe with the sub or bens help. AS i see it they are already confuirmed dead so the freightys have no motivation to save any of them
First off -- The Memphis/Tennessee game is tomorrow night, not tonight. And Your No.1 Memphis Tigers will emerge triumphant. :D
Actually, kiddo's school let them wear t-shirts today if they wore either a Memphis or Tennessee shirt. Normal dress code is a collared shirt, and if you didn't wear blue or orange you had to wear that. Kiddo wisely chose to wear his Memphis t-shirt since this is basketball. If it had been football he would have worn his Tennessee t-shirt, also wisely.
Maven, I 100% agree that the trial was way dumbed down for this purpose so much so in fact that I can't see straight when I think about it. They did not need Kate's mom's testimony to convict her of anything other than killing Wayne, and even then, a statement she'd given would probably have been admissible if she couldn't testify for health reasons. But more importantly there were all those other crimes Kate committed. I like the idea that someone got to the prosecutor and got her to cut a deal with Kate. That makes much more sense than any of the pathetic legal wrangling they tried to pull.
kyle nice grab with the eggtown i knew i had heard it before. Thats why i think the judge was biased anyone know what the judges name was again, quite strange
just like miles is right where he want to be, i think miles is right where ben want him to be, miles seems pretty confident that hes got an ace up jhis sleeve, he deosnt seem concerned at all that hes a prisoner, he make sit like its a foregone conclusion that hell escape and be able to report to bens boss
maven said:
Hubby, who is a bench officer, said legally the DA still had a good cause to prosecute even if their "star witness" clammed up. There were plenty of other facts and witnesses to Kate's long list of crimes.
I'm no lawyer, but the biggest crime in the list was murder. Without Kate's mom, they had no proof that the Kate intentionally started the fire and killed her step dad. So you can knock the arson off the list also. I think it is likely that the other charges would have been overlooked by the jury because of Kate's image as a hero after the crash. Jury's are easily convinced by a good attorney.
I mean, look at all the evidence they had against OJ and he got off :)
Dennis said...And speaking of babies, what was with the comment between Sun and Jin...
Sun: I want to raise my baby at home, in Korea
Jin: You mean our baby.
I know that the V-cast things weren't supposed to add pertinent information, but after the Sun and Michael one, I just get an odd feeling that Michael might have something to do with Sun's baby...hmm.
Oops, my bad on the b-ball schedule.
Also my bad on the attribution for the "DA is an operative" comment. That was from Vozzek too.
Still, AV Club's review is pretty decent, if light reading compared to J. Wood or even Doc.
i think the eggtown thing too refers to how miles doesnt seems to have very much bargaining power at the moment, to be demanding millions.
just in the same way ben manipulated locke in the swan, triggered the black light to come on so locke would see the queestion mark and ultimalely question the swan, ben is making locke resent hurley for still seeing jacob, so i have to think hurley being off the island is what ben wants
2costa said...
the judge had such a weird name that i thought he might be part of the conspiricy like when the cops were part of the party in fight club, like there are sleepers everywhere, it was pretty favorable for kate that he let jack testify,
Again, not a lawyer, but since the trial was focussed on kate's character, it is very likely the judge would let Jack testify, under the exact paramaeters he quoted to the jury. Character witniess only who met the defendant after the alledged crimes took place.
I too was surprised that there was no fix in on the trial from Abbadon or Oceanic. I said that last night. But they would have had to fix the jury, not the judge, because the judge only guides the proceedings and makes rulings on motions in a jury trial.
well i already admitted he could be two. so kyle yo still think ben had no knowledge of the swan, cause thats just wrong, i also think ben knows what the smoke is as well. I cant see jack and kate getting off the island anytime soon so maybe aaron will age a little more, but as i said she was probably awaiting trial for a year or more
good point diggity
Maybe the whole trial was pre-planned to get Kate off (part of the deal) and keep her with Aaron (part of the deal), and to keep her in one place so they can keep an eye on her.
Interesting how Aaron did end up in LA as originally intended by Claire's psychic.
beside guilt doesnt it seem odd that jack doesnt raise aaron since hes is closest blood kin, makes me think jack still doesnt know about clare being his sister
ya maven i said that too earlier , very interesting that the prediction came true, thats what makes me think that the freightys are the evil ones that want aaron, of course we thought it was ethan and ben before, but now ben is increasingly sseming like the lesser of two evils if not outright good
i just wonder if ben will somehow talk his way out of the double cross with miles boss by claiming it was locke the whole time and not ben welching on his deal, thats why ben was always keeping his hand clean annd now there are very few others to tell a differnt tale
According to Lostpedia, the judge's name was Arthur Galzethron.
It's so incredibly silly to speculate on this, but his unusual last name anagrams to "No hertz lag." Could refer to why communications on the Island don't have the same 31 minute delay that physical objects do.
Or, it could just be a made-up name. Ockham.
maven said...
Maybe the whole trial was pre-planned to get Kate off (part of the deal) and keep her with Aaron (part of the deal), and to keep her in one place so they can keep an eye on her.
it is possible, but would have had to be done without Kate's knowledge. She was way to relieved that it was over for her to know the fix was in and in her favor.
as in others i mean all the recruits that were sent to ben by miles boss,like mikhail. I think mikhail may still be alive, but didnt the producers say he was dead. As with christain a confirmed dead doesnt mean much on the island if their spirits are still doing stuff, cause after all only fools are trapped in time and space
And yes, 2costa, I still believe that prior to the crash, Ben had little to no knowledge of the Swan. I'm undecided as to whether he knows something about the monster or not.
miles" dont talk to me like one of them. i know who you are and what you can do" this may tie to the judge or also to like how he brought cooper to the island or bens magic box
I am a lawyer, and TPTB played fast and loose with everything. At the most basic level, they had the trial taking place in a state of California courtroom despite her crimes occurring in Iowa and New Mexico and possibly Florida. Now a federal courtroom in Calif. might have flown for the bank robbery, but not really.
Most importantly she's criminally liable for her ex-boyfriend Tom's death even if she didn't do any of the other things just by being on the run from the cops and being instrumental in his death. Her intent plays no bearing on that question. So they've swept that completely under the table.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.... this new blogger thing is still screwing me up! newest, older, oldest....geez!
Anyway, I'm still trying to catch up to some of the "older" comments:)
Capcom said...
I thought for sure that Miles would call Locke's poker play and spew the fake grenade out into Locke's face and then snarl with glee.
ROFL !!!!
Kyle aka TheBookPolice said...
Other thoughts:
Did Sawyer and/or Kate forget that pregnant women die on the Island? Of course Sawyer should be happy Kate isn't pregnant. Why the hell would she hold that relief against him?
That got to me, too! It almost made me think that Kate really IS pregnant and testing the waters with Sawyer to see how he'd react. Like if he would be sad she wasn't pregnant, then she would give him the great news that she WAS and convince him to leave the island with her because of the "pregnant women die on the island" thing.
Hmmm... here's some wild speculation...
What if Aaron really IS Kate's baby and she named him Aaron in honor of Claire's Aaron, the poor little guy who didn't make it off the island? It could also be to honor Claire, with whom she could relate when Claire said she never thought she'd be a good Mom.
This would explain Jack's hesitation to see "Aaron", since it is Sawyer's kid (and he's still in love with Kate, so it's too hard for him to think about)
Of course, this would mean TPTB are really screwing around with us, so please.... knock this theory down:)
i think ben has intimate knowledge of the island and all of its hatches. The way ben doesnt seem surprised that locke cant find jacob anymore makes me think he knows exactly whats going down. the way ben refused to bring locke to jacob before he sacrifced cooper, maybe it is somehow tied to a human sacrafice or death of soemone close to you, and the death of charlie is the catlyst for hurley to see the shack now
2costa said...
beside guilt doesnt it seem odd that jack doesnt raise aaron since hes is closest blood kin, makes me think jack still doesnt know about clare being his sister
I still see two scenarios:
Jack found out Claire is his half sister. If so, I don't see any justifiable reason Jack leaves her behind so she must have died.
Jack doesn't know they are related. They make a deal for 6 people to get off the island, Claire isn't one of them, and she gives Kate Aaron and askes her to care for him. Or she dies
I just don't see Jack leaving Claire behind if he knows they are related. I guess you could say Jack would end up hating Claire if he found out abiut their relation because it's another screw up his dad made, but that would be really dark for Jack's character in my opinion.
Codysmom, I sort of thought of that too. Like maybe we'll find out his name is Aaron James Austen. I don't think they'd play that trick on us though. I don't understand Jack's hesitation about Aaron though. Nor why he thinks he can see Kate without seeing Aaron. I'm guilty about what made you end up with Claire, but I still want to be with you? Jack needs Dr. Phil or better yet Dr. Laura.
Another suggestion for those of you who don't like having to scroll through the comments, use the subscribe via email option. The nice thing about it is you don't have to remember where you were.
maybe its kates kid, but unless they have widmore labs condoms kate doesnt seem to concerned with birth control, i am starting to think kate is barren which is also and old testament theme like abrahams wife being barren before she had issac
I'm not gonna get into the whole hatch thing again. It's kind of a moot point anyway.
I do think that Ben has a certain awareness about Locke's search for Jacob, but I am undecided as to whether it's a "now you know how I feel" thing, or a "I know where he is and you don't" thing.
Diggity, I can't understand why Jack would leave the Island and with Aaron if Claire is still alive. As I heard someone say in a podcast last week, "I guess women and children first doesn't apply anymore."
The more episodes we get in the more confused I get on the question of who is the "they" in Charlie's message to Hurley that "they need you." Is it all the red shirts? At this rate it doesn't look like there will be any named 815ers left alive on the Island except maybe Saywer and Locke and Rose and Bernard. Hard to make a compelling argument to Jack about that group "needing" him.
And what is it going to take to convince Kate that she and possibly Aaron should return to the Island? I wouldn't take a kid there. Not even a "special" one. No way, no how.
...use the subscribe via email option.
LOL I tried that once, but when 2Costa and Kyle get going it's alarming the amount my e-mail pings at me in a very small amount of time hehe.
seems like sex on the island is very risky to be that cavaleir about it
sorry ange im spent, i did my blast for the week
i almost dread the friday morning rap up cause i always have so much to get off my chest
on the hatch thing...
This is the only comment I will make in efforts to avoid an all day discussion. Sure I think it is likely that Ben had knowledge of all the hatches including the swan.
The documentation Mikhail had in the flame seemed to be a book(s) of all the hatches and their purpose. They just ripped the page out about the looking glass before Piro Locke set the joint on fire. Unless I am "mis-remembering" that scene.
The mis-remember line is my homage to Roger Clemens.
Interseting point, Diggity, that Jack could resent Claire, and therefore Aaron, for yet another one of his dad's mistakes. Hmmmmm.
Hmm, I really like the email thing. The way I have my gmail set up, the comments stack up in one email and I can read them easily both on my computer and on my iPhone. Works great for me.
"The mis-remember line is my homage to Roger Clemens."
Bwaahaahahahaa! I cracked up when I heard that sound bite of his on the radio myself!!! :-D
memphish said...
Codysmom, I sort of thought of that too. Like maybe we'll find out his name is Aaron James Austen. I don't think they'd play that trick on us though.
I feel the same way, but you never know...
memphish also said...
The more episodes we get in the more confused I get on the question of who is the "they" in Charlie's message to Hurley that "they need you." Is it all the red shirts? At this rate it doesn't look like there will be any named 815ers left alive on the Island except maybe Saywer and Locke and Rose and Bernard. Hard to make a compelling argument to Jack about that group "needing" him.
I know what you mean. For some reason I thought the "they" Charlie was referring to was Claire and Aaron, but that doesn't work if Kate has Claire's Aaron.... I'm going in circles now. Maybe I'll go read Doc Jensen:)
Forgot to mention one of my favorite lines. Locke to Ben:“Maybe you’ll catch something you missed the second time around.”
memphish said...
Diggity, I can't understand why Jack would leave the Island and with Aaron if Claire is still alive.
Here's some reasons I can spitball why Claire is alive and gives Aaron to Kate:
Claire is not allowed to be rescued. For some reason, it seems those who are allowed to leave are chosen. It isn't as simple as Jack's camp since Hurley gets to go and it doesn't seem Jack has input or they would all be going. Why would Jack want to go back to the island if everyone was dead?
Claire doesn't want to leave the island. She likes her life there, but wants better for Aaron. Ultimately, she planned to give him up anyway.
Claire doesn't want Aaron to be the only person left on the island after the generation passes. Since no kids can be born on the island, the next generation would consist of Aaron and the couple kids kidnapped by Dharma after the crash. Alex and Karl would be the elders assuming they don't get off the island.
Just spitballin
Good ideas Diggity, but I'm not buying yet. Claire in the episode talks about how she's surprised that she's good at being a mum. She likes being a mum. Ooooh, here's an idea, what if Ben promises Claire that Jacob can heal HER mum back in Australia if she gives Kate Aaron!
have I ever mentioned that Claire is my favorite female character. The hotness factor + those eyes + the accent = diggity's favorite female. I hope nothing bad happens to her.
I have to listen to the females in here always tell us how hot Sawyer is. There's a little payback.
So Aaron is the 'him' that Kate worries about in the FF from S3 finale. Hmmm.
They really have us going this season, eh?
i would be floored if clare survives this season. If there is a crazy deal struck to keep the islands secret the question is who struuck the bargain and to me it has ben written all over it, instead of flying oceanic every weekend jack would be better served trying to find sayid because his ties to ben are prolly the only way jack can make it back to the island. The producers made no secret that more people will die, beloved people, so all the scenarios that have clare living seem forced, except for the fact that maybe kate doesnt want to go back cause shell lose aaron to clare if clare was still alive, but i tend to think its more of i have aaron and we are safe so i cant go back
I don't think Claire is one of the O6, but I do think she makes it onto the freighter with Aaron (because of Des's vision). For some reason, she doesn't get off. Maybe something happens to her. Who knows? That could be the impetus Kate needs to "adopt" Aaron -- since they're already off the island, but she certainly doesn't want to leave him with the freighter folk.
I'm sticking by the idea that Michael is one of the O6. I'm sure no one else would much like it, but I've got a feeling the freighter picked him and Walt up, and they'll end up finishing the journey they started and make it home.
if the frieghter didnt leave until after 2007(conservative cause miles plates 08 expiration) then kates cover story had to still involve aaron being concieved and born on the island, so my only question is oceanic survivor 7 just the dad in the cover story or is clare and the dad 7 and 8, cause i cant think of many reasons why they would have 7 and 8 in the story unless it was to make the oceanic 6 cover story add up
the way kate doesnt want to bring her kid to court or let her mom see him makes me think kate is trying to pass off aaron as her biological son
i dont thinks hes one i changed my mind, i said hes 2 look through comments ive said it five times, and as far as the french thing unlike some people im not affraid to admit I am wrong, cause i am wrong a lot. I never said my thoughts were canon, i thought the fun of a forum was speculation, Seems to me a lot of people think that ben has intimate knowledge of all the hatches, the only reason i come back to it is, its a a real leap to say ben has all these cameras and access to the pearl with a direct camera in the swan plus all the blueprints in the flame but is ignotrant of the swan. Ben wouldnt have manipulated locke into stopping pressing the 208 clock if he didnt know what was gonna happen. For the record aaron was 2 and kate had been back to LA for a while I dont think justice moves very swiftly, how long has r Kelly been fighting his child porn case? well it seems like hes been fighting it since his drip drip drip victim was a 2 yr old...just saying aaron being 2 is a moot point even if hes 3,
2costa, I'm not going to engage in these back-and-forths with you anymore. I no longer think it is appropriate. Best wishes~Kyle
claire baby was due to be born in what say oct 1 2004, so if the flash fowards are 2007 then aaron would be 3 and nobody could convince me that that kid was 3, well we know that beardy jack was like the fall of 2007, whick explains why frank was only talking about the redsox first world series cause the freighter is definetly at the island before fall of 2007 so it hasnt happneed yet. right, so i guess the question is how long did slick jack that visited hurley in the rubber room take to descend into beardy golden ticket jack, a month three months a year???
live long and prosper kyle
2Costa, I think this flash forward occurred within a year of the O6s return. Think how fast OJ went to trial. Justice can move semi-swiftly at least. I also think this was before Hurley's flash forward and Jack's beard comment. I also think that from Hurley's comments about reporters leaving you alone and the fame dying down. During the trial they talked repeatedly about how well known Kate was, so I think this was very shortly after their return to the world.
i hadnt really thought about it before but maybe the island doesnt always move proprtianetly slower than the outside world,maybe its more of a constant, 31 minutes slower than reality, which might explain why aaron wasnt much younger. 31 minutes would be a betters dream at vegas
id buy that for a dollar memphis,agreed
Morning LoCos
I've got a really long post coming up and I don't want it to be lost on an "older" page. So I'm posting this hoping the next one will be on the newer page. LOL It took so much time to write it I don't want it getting lost.
but if time isnt an issuae then kate and jack and hurley will be rescued somewhere around what jan 2005 and that just doesnt add up. I dont think it would take 2 or 3 yrs for hurley to lose his mables off the island, and i agree that jack trying to kill himself was after the trial and after his visit to hurley. I doubt that jack knows that sayid is bens assasin because if he did his golden ticket thing and all his maps at home is retarded because i would go right to ben
Ok here goes sorry for the length.
I just copied and pasted some things. It was eaiser that way. But it took awhile.
Maven said:
Hubby, who is a bench officer, said legally the DA still had a good cause to prosecute even if their "star witness" clammed up. There were plenty of other facts and witnesses to Kate's long list of crimes. He just can't believe how TV legal problems are solved so easily! LOL
I agree with this and thought the same thing. But maybe as lame as it is the DA figured that Kate’s attorney was right and a jury would never put behind bars and gave in.
5. The previews for next week were more interesting than the episode! The time discrepancy with the helicopter is another example of how times moves differently on the island….
I know I thought the same thing. Now that some others have said that Kate episodes seem to disappoint. I’ll have to admit that last night I wanted to say that I strangely wasn’t all that excited about seeing last nights episode because it was a Kate episode.
Codysmom said:
What if Aaron really IS Kate's baby and she named him Aaron in honor of Claire's Aaron, the poor little guy who didn't make it off the island? It could also be to honor Claire, with whom she could relate when Claire said she never thought she'd be a good Mom.
This would explain Jack's hesitation to see "Aaron", since it is Sawyer's kid (and he's still in love with Kate, so it's too hard for him to think about)
Of course, this would mean TPTB are really screwing around with us, so please.... knock this theory down:)
I don’t know if I can knock this theory down because it crossed my mind to. Although I don’t know if I’d go with it or not. And I’m having the same problems with blogger as you. I went back to find a comment to copy and couldn’t find it and I didn’t want to misquote anyone so I just forgot about it.
Memphis said:
Maybe I’ll try the email thing. I recently created a gmail account. Thanks
For some reason I don’t think Jack had a choice on who gets off the and who stays on the island. I think the decision is made by someone else probably Ben.
I'm probably also the only one not bothered by the age of Aaron. I can’t explain it yet but I’m not all that bothered by it or confused. I expected him to be older. I'm still not sure how time has passed or how long it’s been since they left the island or how long it takes them to get off the island.
By the way I noticed Jack was driving the same vehicle last night as he was when he met Kate at the airport.
Erich said:
I don't think Claire is one of the O6, but I do think she makes it onto the freighter with Aaron (because of Des's vision). For some reason, she doesn't get off. Maybe something happens to her. Who knows? That could be the impetus Kate needs to "adopt" Aaron -- since they're already off the island, but she certainly doesn't want to leave him with the freighter folk.
Speaking of the freighter folk. I know some on here feel there are two factions on the freighter and I agree especially considering what “Mr. Friendly” said on the DVD set.
I think who ever is on that freighter are dangerous. I think Charlotte, Miles, Dan, and Frank are afraid of them. And they maybe the F4 are working for them.
oops
For some reason memphish's quote didn't copy. But I do thank you for the email subscription suggestion.
2costa,
There's two sides to every coin and no definitive answer yet. We have info to help us form an opinion but nothing solid.
On one hand, the others have blueprints of the hatches and camera's, plus Ben was originally Dharma so he might know a lot about the island.
On the other hand, Ben didn't know about Desmonds boat. That either means he isn't aware of Desmond, which could be construed as he doesn't know about the hatch, or he doesn't think Desmond is leaving the hatch or has any reason not to push the button.
I think Ben does know about all the hatches because he knew where to go to watch the people in the swan, and because of all the documentation in the flame. In season three we see that back in season 2 Ben and Juliett went to the pearl to observe Jack, who was already being monitored by Tom. Ben planned to get Jack by exploiting his emotional investments. This leads me to believe that they were monitoring the hatch for some time.
It also makes me think that Kelvin was the one person Ben missed in the purge. Again, another point that would furthur Ben not knowing about the hatch.
The question in my mind is why did Ben try to convince John not to press the button and call the hatch a joke. Not pressing the button made the island visable to the outside world for a brief time period, and caused the station to explode. What if Ben had been in the hatch when they decided not to press the button.
Ben obviously wants the island to be hidden, so it doesn't make sense to me that he would want it to explode.
sayid'sgirl said...I know some on here feel there are two factions on the freighter and I agree especially considering what “Mr. Friendly” said on the DVD set.
Last night I thought that they were kinda trying to hint at this as well. Now we have a second freighter phone number reaching Regina in an "emergency" only, and Minkowski not answering the main line at all. That coupled with the "He can't come to the phone right now," from previous episodes makes me thing something not at all good is going on on that freighter or they are all scrambling around like mad in anticipation of something...but what?
the other option is Ben knowing about the swan, but not knowing it's location until his capture.
But, I don't think it would have been difficult for Ben to have one of his cronies follow Locke to the dig, or follow one of the Losties making trips back and forth to the hatch to figure out it's location. I woud be pretty surpised if Ben wasn't samrt enought to figure that out.
sayid'sgirl said...I know some on here feel there are two factions on the freighter and I agree especially considering what “Mr. Friendly” said on the DVD set.
What did Mr Friendly say on the DVD set? I saw a preview of a video with Tom that the producers showed at Comic Con, but I thought that was part of season 4. It started with him saying "If you're watching this, I'm already dead" or something to that effect.
diggity: That last part is my personal opinion for the most knowledge Ben would have of the Swan prior to getting captured in it. He had access to the Pearl, and the Pearl Orientation Video stated that the "other stations" were the experiment, and the Pearl was the only important one. Going back to Ben's DHARMA days, if he had access to the Pearl, he would have only been told that the Swan was a lab exercise (or "joke," perhaps).
I think he had a fundamental misunderstanding about the purpose of the Swan.
diggity
That's what I'm talking about. I can't remember the exact quote but it was something like. If you think the others were bad they were nothing compared to what's coming on that freighter.
kyle said:
...I think he (Ben) had a fundamental misunderstanding about the purpose of the Swan.
I never thought of that but it is a good possiblity.
Just a thought: Is it possible that Ben wanted the hatch explosion and "purpling" incident to occur so he could use it as a cover story for why the Others could no longer communciate off-island? When in fact the real reason was that he began using the Looking Glass station to jam communications?
blueheron13 said...
Just a thought: Is it possible that Ben wanted the hatch explosion and "purpling" incident to occur so he could use it as a cover story for why the Others could no longer communciate off-island?
Excellent point! I would agree with you on that 100%.
Are you sure she says Aaron. I watched it 20 times and all I heard was Eric. What was her childhood boyfriends name. The one who died in the car when she was trying to escape? Maybe she had the baby before the crash. Maybe her stepfather raped her and got her pregnant. Maybe that is why Kates mother is so desperate to see her grandson. Kate certainly seemed very sad around Aaron while they were on the Island. This makes me think she already had a baby of her own????
pfswithkids, People with their close captioning on last night said it said "Aaron," but you're not the only one who heard Eric. Kate's boyfriend was Tom. I don't think Kate had a baby before the Island because of the way she freaked in her married in Florida flashback about possibly being pregnant.
pfswithkids: Yes, she says Aaron...
Darkaardvark said...
As if it needs confirmation, my close-captioning is working and it does say Aaron. So.
2/21/2008 07:26:00 PM
i think kelvin said he was recruited after the gulf war so its prolly post purge, kelvin was the one who stashed the sailboat, so maybe he just did that off bens radar or he was lying when he acted like he didnt know about it. I tend to think tha kelvin was recruited by bens boss and the same people who recruited mikhail, obviously bens boss wanted the swan clock pushed. The fact that ben was doublecrossing the boss is interesting, because it probably refers to ben jamming the signal for a long time in the looking glass thats why it was a secret and the girls were supposed to be in canada and also why mikhail seemed peeved at ben for lying and probably why mikhail waited until charlie unjammed the signal to flood the station
it also seems like ben might have moved up the raid on the beach to expediate price and tom dying because he knew the freighter people were close, because mikhail had told him about naomi, i think. as i said before i think ben is planning to leave the island to do his dirty work and he needs someone like locke or the other 815'ers to be stewards of the island because he simply couldnt trust others who were recruited by abbbaddon and his ultimate boss such as mikhail
those people are more loyal to the boss, ben is loyal to the island as is locke
Does anyone have any thought about the robots above Aaron's bed? Other than them being a Mommy Robot and Baby Robot, what is their significance? I don't think it's something Aaron drew, although they do look like they were drawn by a child.
blue herron i agree about the pupleing i think it was tom that said all sonar and satalite was knocked out by the purpling, thats why i think ben waited to let walt go til after that so his bosses couldnt be alerted
replicants i say, were not replicants were replicans
i think its interesting that on the yahoo aussie site secret clue for season 4 episode three they clip in desmonds turning the failsafe key in between daniels payload experiment. then ask why its 31 minutes difference. seems to add validity to the 1 to 1 ratio for time before the swan imploded.
http://au.yahoo.com/lost/clue/clue403.html
I was wondering about that too Maven, they looked like robot versions of Flat Stanley. :-)
I had a long post typed and it went away - must be on the island. I'm just skipping over that whole trial thing because it annoyed me.
Anyway I'm afraid Claire's probably dead, but I thought I'd put together a 'Claire's not necessarily dead' theory. Punch holes to your heart's content.
When the rescue is imminent, Sawyer, Hurley, and Claire lose their nerve for life on the island. They pack up baby Aaron and head out. (Could be Miles or someone instead of Sawyer - But there has to be a third person besides Claire and Hurley).
Locke has confiscated all communications equipment and they can't radio Jack to hold the boat. So they hurry.
Unfortunately, in their hurry Claire is injured. Could just fall over a root - could be more of a potentially fatal wound - doesn't really matter.
Aaron is dropped. (that wasn't in there the first time I typed it but I like it even better) He's injured too.
Now we need to get Aaron to Jack as quickly as possible but we also need to get Claire to the rescue conveyance. I just don't think Hurley could tote Claire. So I'm going to say that Sawyer (or whoever - you get the idea) is to tote Claire while Hurley hurries on ahead to get Aaron there and tell Jack to hold the rescue conveyance.
Because Claire (tiny little thing that she is) is still larger than Aaron and Sawyer is a really bad tracker. And because Hugo still has luck on his side (and possibly Jacob who maybe has a soft spot for Aaron - who knows?) - Hugo gets to Jack before Claire and her toter make it to the beach.
Jack checks out young and possibly injured Aaron. Aaron needs more medical help than Jack can give him on the beach - it is now more urgent than ever that the conveyance leave.
Except Claire and Sawyer still haven't made it. The time groweth short and it's now or never time. Jack finally makes one of those tough Dr. type calls he makes and they take Aaron with them. Besides, Claire would want them to save her child - what mother wouldn't sacrifice herself for her child.
And they leave taking Aaron with them.
Now at first Jack's okay with the tough choice - he's distracted with Kate's trial and Dr's do have to make these sorts of choices from time to time - who lives and who dies. It's only later that he starts to break down.
Hurley is more broken up about it. He felt somewhat responsible for Claire after Charlie's death. And is in fact haunted by Charlie's ghost who died to get Claire off the island - is he not? It would also explain why he thinks they did the wrong thing in leaving, while still explaining why he wishes he didn't follow Locke (the big hurried exodus where Claire was injured wouldn't have happened if she'd been on the beach)
Kate is fine with it. Because by now she sees Aaron as hers. Any decision made to save his life was the right one. Any mother would gravitate toward that logic.
Sayid - well - I sort of wonder if Hurley and Kate and Aaron aren't who he's protecting - they are sitting ducks so to speak.
That's the only one I've come up with that doesn't end in Claire dead or a prisoner.
you should write fan fiction lost2010
....
did anyone check out that secret clue link above?thoughts?
I read it 2costa. The last paragraph is probably the most important thought. One that we've had here too, I believe.
Pretty plausible, lostit. The only hole I see is I don't get why Kate would raise Aaron as her own. Why would they keep it a secret that Aaron was the child of one of the other survivors that either didn't make the original crash or Kate couldn't save of the 8 (one of the 2)?
I checked out that link, 2costa. I agree with Capcom that the end of that is something that has been mentioned here...the Swan was controlling the time problem on the island and now it's out of whack.
Also: According to Lostpedia, Day 95 (Christmas Day) and Day 96 (the day of the tsunami) took place during "Eggtown". It's surprising that no mention is made of it. One would think one of the Losties would say something, but maybe because of the time issues, it's not really Christmas for the Freighters. And because there's no strange wave action from the tsunami hitting the island, one can assume there are more time fluctuations between island time and real world time.
no smashed mirrors in this episode
I think it is certainly plausible, as a few have suggested that Kate could claim she was already pregnant when crashed on the island and just hadn't told anyone. How much they'd have to fudge the figures (Aaron's what, 2 months old maybe 10 weeks when the Freighterers arrive) depends on whether they are affected by any time anomally now (which I don't think so) or in leaving the island. Like Ange, I also doubt that authorities would let Kate keep the baby, given her criminal history etc etc, even if the O6 claimed it was Claire's wish. To me the most likely scenario is Claire is one of those that they say died in the crash (whether she is really dead or siply still on the island).
I really picked up on Jack saying they crashed in the water, 8 survived, island in the south Pacific. So the O6 + 2 survived and one possibility, that they would say they had been on an island near the Sunda Trench (Indian Ocean) if those behind the freckage had any influence over the O6, is clearly not going to happen. I'm really looking forward to seeing how that is explained!
My pick for the 2 survivors not included in the O6 is Michael and Walt, whether they have made it back to civilisation or not. I don't think the freighter has a chance, given the timeline, to be there waiting for them if Ben gave them that bearing knowing (through his man on the boat) that the freighter was waiting for them. Maybe they are picked up by someone else and passed on to the Freighterers but I just don't know.
2costa, animals breeding is something I pondered a while back and I forget exactly where I got my answer, an OLP maybe, but it was said that the polar bears did breed on the island.
I too am a little baffled that the death of pregnant women on the island wasn't a reason Sawyer gave for his relief that Kate wasn't pregnant. Back when the revelation about the failed pregnancies was revealed, I got the impression that was why Sawyer was so concerned about her. Codysmom, I too had the thought that Kate did give birth to a son she named Aaron, but for him to be two stretches the time anomally a bit further, and at the moment I'd like to keep the stretching of that to a minimum. Another thought about Claire, which I think a few suggestions have brushed against, is that something happens to Claire after getting on the chopper (I'd like to think that part of Desmonds flash comes true) and Jack can't fix/save her and thus his guilt towards Aaron is a little more personal that just guilt over leaving people on the Island.
2costa, you may lessen your dread towards teh Fri morning wrap up by organising, researching and editting your thoughts into a few tight posts. I know it will mean it will take longer before you post but it might just be worth it for all our sakes.
diggity, did you notice how exceptionally hot Sawyer was looking in this ep? ;-P
for what it is worth I did check the secret clue right after the episode finished airing here. I really don't know that you can read too much into it at this stage... Capcom pointed to that last paragraph and if you notice "could" and "did" are used... it's posing a question rather than confirmation of anything. BTW, if you haven't picked up on it Ninja mentions in his latest post that he is the one who writes the secret clues.
maven, I was sure that 91 days was mentioned during this episode. I think we've fallen behind the "an episode = a day" having the Losies split and into two groups.
I'd also like to say that given the tsunami was in the Indian Ocean and we now have confirmation (Jack in trial) that the island is in the South Pacific I don't think there is going to be any real-time mention of the tsunami. However, given that the freckage is there, we may hear more about it once the O6 are back int he real world
Right Maven, the tsunami is 31 minutes late. :o)
maven
In the enhanced version of The Economist it said that they had been on the island 92 days.
In the Eggtown episode when Charlotte calls the freighter for Jack she tells Regina their friends left last night. It's evening when she makes this call so I assumed it was near the end of day 93 on the island.
But I could be wrong.
I'm still sticking to the tsunami is irrelevant because they are in the Pacific Ocean and it was in the Indian Ocean.
Nice theory Lost2010. Don't get too attached though. I know the hard way that some of my disappointment with LOST has been because I've been too invested in my writing rather than the writers' writing. It's almost like going speculation-free along with spoiler-free. :D
I like the idea that Kate tells the world she got pregnant by a rando in Australia and passes Aaron off as hers. That timeline works for me though I still can't figure out how much time might have passed between Day 92/93 on Island, Day Kate and Aaron leave the Island, and day of beginning and end of trial. Aaron had to have spent enough time with Kate and be old enough to get the Mommy thing down before she was put in jail pending and during the trial. Yes, I'm picking at the legal stuff again. BTW, in California all persons tried for 1st degree murder are held in jail regardless of their flight risk. It's statutory.
Sayid'sgirl: I do remember the pop-up in "The Economist" said 92 days. In their Time Line section, Lostpedia has Day 92 in TTLG. I guess we should go by what the pop-up says. Even so, you'd think someone would mention Christmas (We know that Sam mentioned it a lot in Find815...even though that's not canon!).
In regards to Kate's court case: You would think that as soon as she landed in the real world, she would have been arrested. When would she have had time to set up that pretty house in that nice neighborhood and interview nannies?
Where's Nikki when you need her now, right Maven?
More Damon and Carlton from EW.com talking about writing after the strike. Less spoilery than the last interview. Mentions Dr. Eyeliner.
The one thing I could think of that could delay Kate's court issues is the fact that she's been declared dead. It could be the case that because of that charges would have to be refiled. She still wouldn't get a get out of jail free card for that, but it could buy her time to find Supernanny. I'm betting Ben is the one with his 3.2 million that set up her house and housekeeping fund. But why did Kate pick LA? Jack? That's her only tie to the city and to the state for that matter.
maven
I went back and look at last nights show again. It morning when Locke puts the gernade in Miles mouth so if we calculate by the popups that would be day 94.
It is odd no one talks about holidays. Nikki was the only one who mention it. I think around Thanksgiving.
ooops
I guess memphish already mentioned Nikki. Sorry about that.
thanks for the link, Memphish.
I can't wait until S4 is on dvd...and I can watch it straight through! grr
did anyone see that oceanic commercial??
whowillcare: What commercial are you referring to?
I've finally pinpointed the thing about S4 that has me on edge. None of the O6 seemed to have learned anything from their time on the Island. They've all gone back to being exactly the person they would have been but for the crash. Any bit of redemption they had earned on the Island has gone out the window in the real world.
Jack is a lonely alcoholic workaholic.
Hurley is a junk food eating nutcase who retreats from the real world.
Kate while not running continues to live a lie albeit under her own name. She manages avoiding get locked up but is still locked in California.
Sayid goes from torture to assassination.
And each is alone. They don't have friends. They don't have significant others.
What happened to them getting a chance to start over? What happened to the good qualities they developed on Island? What happened to the theme of redemption?
Hooray! Someone besides me brought up the tsunami! Now I won't get yelled at for talking about it.
Based on the actual timeline of the earthquake/tsunami, it's probably within an hour of happening right as Locke is putting the grenade in Miles' mouth.
Even islands in the South Pacific experienced a measurable rise in sea level following the earthquake and subsequent tsunami. Vanuatu had an 18cm sea level fluctuation. Fiji had an 11cm fluctuation.
The math generally works out to 1cm in sea level = 1m in horizontal waterline advance. So if we split the difference between Fiji and Vanuatu, that's still roughly 14cm of sea level rise (even if only temporarily).
14m = 45ft. That's gonna put a lot of the beach encampment under water.
I'm hoping we see the sea level fluctuation in relation to Miles (say, for example, his feet getting wet, or water dribbling into the boathouse under the door), but I'm not holding my breath.
However, having some aspect of the tsunami touch on LOST Island would be scientifically accurate, unless TPTB find some way to excuse the Island from those effects.
Kyle, meters or centimeters? 14 cm isn't very much. About 6 1/2 inches.
I'm sorry I see your thing about 1 cm = 1 m, but I'm not following that. Wouldn't Vanuatu have been swamped if 18 cm > 45 m? I don't remember hearing anything like that.
No, no. I know, there are a lot of abbreviations in there.
1 centimeter vertical equals 1 meter horizontal (or 14 centimeters vertical equals 45 feet horizontal).
I'm still not following Kyle. The sea looks wider?
Ha!
Okay. Picture a beaker full of water. Or a highball glass. Something with vertical walls, no slant. Add water to that vessel. Where the water hits on the sides of that vessel is the vertical rise. That's measured in centimeters.
Now picture a beach. Water laps on the sand, but only up to a certain point. Y'know how you can see how far the water hits up a beach at its furthest advance by that line that separates wet sand from dry? It's usually where all the seaweed and foam settles. Imagine enough water being added to the volume of the ocean so that that line moves farther up the beach. That's the horizontal advance.
Underwater earthquakes cause the water to move away from the epicenter of the earthquake. The water will do that until it either disperses its energy in open seas, or hits land. What we're talking about here is the water around LOST Island still having enough energy from the force of the earthquake to move up the beach to the tune of 45 feet.
If you were standing 40 feet away from the water (say, at the spot where Sun lost her ring burying the message bottle), looking at the ocean, and your feet were dry, they'd be wet after the effects of the earthquake hit LOST Island.
Thanks Kyle. I finally get it. So everything for 40 odd feet will get wet which should mean the entire beach camp. I'm not sure about Miles though. I think he may be in a lagoon that the sub comes into under water.
You may be right about Miles. I wasn't too sure about the geography of the Island in that respect.
But otherwise, yes. You got it.
I'm not a marine geology expert, so I could be totally misunderstanding the effects that were measured on Vanuatu and Fiji (in which case, I'm totally wrong about what'll happen on LOST Island), but I don't think I am.
sounds like too much work carol
Hi all,
That is a very good thought Memphish about the apparent lack of personal growth by the Losties in the FFs. Since TPTB say that the show is all about redemption, either they are going to show what happens when you don't make the choice to improve yourself, or, they are going to show examples of how hard it is to change when there are circumstances beyond your control influencing your life.
Thanks for the tsunami info Kyle. If the island is floating, a tsunami could carry it away to another location! :o) But seriously...if there is a rise in the surrounding water, couldn't the rise backwash (so to speak) into any bodies of water connected to the ocean, like rivers or lagoons? Just wondering.
Good thoughts about lack of ultimate redemption, Memphish. It's seems they really didn't learn anything for the time spent on the island. You can see the redemption "unraveling" in S4 on the island, too. Nobody seems to be getting along, there are factions everywhere, and everyone seems to have their own agenda.
Kyle, thanks for all the info re the tsunami possibilities. I'm sure TPTB would just explain it away that even tsunami waves need to come in on bearing 325! LOL Yucky thought: If the water line would rise on the beach, wouldn't those buried become unburied (Oh, no...not N & P again!). Remember, Locke once said things don't stay buried on the island!
maven: If the water line would rise on the beach, wouldn't those buried become unburied (Oh, no...not N & P again!)
Not to mention their diamonds... It's a good thing we don't have an unscrupulous dead-talker who only wants money on the Island...
Now you start to see my growing interest in this storyline!
LOL, Kyle: I can just picture Miles frantically digging through the sand like a dog once he realizes there are diamonds buried there salivating over more money!
Check out this interview with JJ Abrams. He mentions that he is the early stages of working with Steven King and Damon Lindelof on an adaptation of the Dark Tower series!
Unless N&P "tell" Miles about the diamonds that they are buried with, a tsunami will just float the diamonds away like sand, since Sawyer took them out of the bag and sprinkled them. :-O
J.Wood did his Eggtown article, although it's more about the books in the episode, than the ep itself.
Kyle, thank you for posting that... I really don't remember hearing anything about that and would have thought that Australia would have blocked out most of the water-level fluctuations. However I've now found a report stating the waves travelled around the world a few times before completely dissipating so this could be interesting after all. Never mind watching the sky, watch the animals flee in land that the water suck out to sea (I hope Hurley doesn't feel like bombing into the water again!)
see what a wee bit of research can achieve? That really wasn't hard work
Well finally caught up and checking in-
memphish- you bring up a good point about the characters and their redemption. I was wondering the same thing, and I noticed in last weeks enhanced episode, one of the pop ups asks whether or not Sayid got redemption on the island. So I have to wonder if that is significant to the story some way. Maybe that is who gets off and who doesn't. The ones who have not settled the redemption issue are the ones who get off? I have no idea and haven't thought that through at all.
re: the robots over Aaron's bed- those are a little weird, and quite a random decoration. I wonder if they mean something. I do notice that they have 3 toes on their feet. Oh well. :)
re: the trial- I'm not even close to being a lawyer, but agree that the way the trial was handled really did not hold water.
re: Claire- I don't know what the scenario is, but I have a terrible feeling Claire will not make it this season. In Doc Jensen's article DL and CC did say that by the end of S4(?) we would have to understand not only who left the island, but why and under what circumstances- so I think something really bizarre will happen. (on a side note- I wonder what Emelie DeRaven's reaction to this episode was? Was she like "oh crap- why is Kate raising Aaron?!")
And Kyle- the tsunami thing has stuck in my mind, too. I will be really excited if they figure it into the plot somehow. ;)
Sheesh- J. Wood just lost me this week. I couldn't get through all the Valis commentary- guess I won't be reading that book anytime soon.
Scoutpost: At least I'm not the only one who felt that way about the J. Woods this week. I realize that it's a book blog, but it just went on and on and on...and only one aspect of the show was really discussed -- Locke.
I try to read as many re-caps as I can find on different sites. J. Wood's is usually one I look forward to, but I just didn't get this one.
Good Saturday, everyone!
I enjoyed reading about the tsunami (something I've been wondering about) and I agree with the lack of redemption of our losties.
It's so hard to care about these folks anymore.
Kate still doesn't want to face the punishment for her crimes (she plead not guilty). Sayid's still a killer. Hurley's still running from the world. Jack's even more self-absorbed than before. Sawyer didn't learn anything from his experience with Clementine. Locke didn't learn anything from stopping pushing the button.
The only ones who seem to have learned anything at all are dead.
And I never really understood what Claire's weakness was supposed to be to begin with - unless it was that she was going to give up her baby. And now we discover that whether by choice or because there was no choice - she's given him away anyway.
I'm starting to think that this is a story of how redemption is not possible without martyrdom.
Attempting to subscribe to the e-mail feed, it doesn't seem to want to let me unless I post.
Lost 2010: The only ones who seem to have learned anything at all are dead.
Now you're catching on!
FYI: The Fishbiscuit recap is up at DarkUFO, and, WOW, it's a very negative take on the episode. Sure, we all know a real trial would never play out like that, Locke's Team got waaay too comfortable so fast in Otherville (Claire...remember Charlie?), and characters didn't act like they were supposed to. But I think it served it's purpose to give some exposition to how Kate is living the good life in the FF (even if it's implausible in our reality).
You have to remember that Fishbiscuit's purpose for existence is to ship Skate, so I'm not surprised she didn't enjoy the episode that seemed to sound the death of Skate.
Finally got though the comments, haven't listened to last weeks OLP yet or ready any of Doc Jensen or J. Wood (I think I'll skip the latter given some of the opinions expressed here).
I'm so glad someone mentioned that Sawyer never once mentioned the fataility of being pregnant on the island as the reson for him being happy that she's not pregnant.
"Of course I'm happy you're not pregnant. If you were, you could die here!"
I'm not going to get into the trial - too unbeleiavble but I'll accept it for the sake of the story.
The timeline - it really bugs me that no-one has mentioned the holidays. And I'll be bitterly disappointed if the tsunami isn't a part of this. I'm already disappointed taht find815 is not canon. I was really hoping Sam would be on the freighter or Sonya would be one of the red-shirts.
I thnks it's possible that Michael and Walt are on the freighter but I doubt it. I think Michael is in the coffin, though I'm not sure how Jack would know what his fake identity was.
I'm gonna go catch up on all the articles now. back later.
wow, I actually got J Wood a whole lot more this week compared to last
Going off something someone said here a while back, I have been looking at the flashforwards as a kind of backflip on character: controlling Jack was out of control, flighty Kate was staying put, then Hurley loosly fit this and Sayid completely blew it out of the water. I hadn't spent the time to reasses it all, but with comments here and on Dark I can now see that Jack is back to his substance abuse, Kate is hiding secrets and living a lie, Hurley is back to Santa Rosa and Sayid is still inflicting pain (but then that isn't exactly anything new). I can see where the suggestion that "if you redeem yourself you die" idea is coming from, but I see this link between Kate and Eko that I can't pigeon-hole... neither will repent for what they did because they felt the ends justified the means. I definately need to tease this out a bit more
I told you Tennesee would win tonight Kyle. Great game. Sorry Memphish :)
kyle - All that buildup and it's purgatory after all. :)
lost 2010, wait until I tell Chucklez!
btw, I haven't read Valis, but let me warn everyone that if you want your mind shattered and turned inside out just read a few of Philip K Dick's books. He makes the Third Policeman look like a straight forward fairy tale!
He really questioned what is reality, how do we know what is real, and can we trust our senses. Even in real life he wasn't too sure what was real or not. He brought that into his writing, and he could turn your brain inside out and backwards before you finished one of his stories.
just sayin'...
Hey Guys
This whole time thing has been driving me nuts. So based on memphish's mention of the marshal saying Kate got her childhood boyfiend killed a couple of years ago(which I will assume is 2) when he's checking his guns at the airport which is in 2004. I'm thinking it is 2006 during her trial. Since her Mom was sick in 2002 and said she had been dying every six months for the past 4 years. Which would make Aaron around 2 years old. It may even be near the end of 2006 since based on Jack's cell phone it's 2007 when he want to go back to the island. Also Jack is driving the same vehicle in Eggtown as he was in the season 3 finale.
Now how we get from 2004 island time to 2006 off island time I don't know. Maybe they're not going to get rescued this season or anytime soon. Who knows.
RE: Aaron -
TV PTB are notorious for using children not of the right age. Aaron hasn't been a newborn for most of the time he should have been a newborn. They aren't necessarily making a statement about Aaron's age by the age of the actor. We only notice bcz a lot of us have young kids.
Also I haven't seen anyone discuss the possibility that the boy may not be Claire's Aaron. Granted, in the Offical Lost Video Podcast Lilly thinks it was Claire's Aaron in the last scene, but that wouldn't stop the writers from pulling a switcheroo. There's also the outside chance that both Claire and Aaron die, Kate gets pregnant with Sawyer's baby, gives birth off island, and names him Aaron in tribute. The Lost writers themselves might not know yet which way it will fall.
If the boy is Aaron, what happened to the warning by the psychic that unless Claire raised Aaron herself there was grave danger?
Memphish said:
What happened to them getting a chance to start over? What happened to the good qualities they developed on Island? What happened to the theme of redemption?
That's a good point. Part of the purposes of the flash-forwards is to show that something else needs to happen to make redemption stick. The deal they had to make between the island and the Oceanic 6 short-circuited their redemption process. We humans do that to ourselves all the time. The discussion of redemption and how real lasting change is so difficult sounds like SOTL material. :-)
Lost2010 said:
I'm starting to think that this is a story of how redemption is not possible without martyrdom.
Isn't that the way the world really is? Redemption always has a high price because of how broken the world is. The authors of Lost have said they are purposefully expressing a post-modern worldview. I'm guessing this is a story about how events give us the potential to be redeemed but how difficult it is to make it happen.
sayid's girl said:
Maybe they're not going to get rescued this season or anytime soon.
I've wondered that too. Maybe the this is explained by the time difference. Maybe the freighter is from 2006, goes to the island, island time 2004, and then back to 2006. There are a lot of holes in that theory though. Maybe it takes a longer time than we realize for someone to get rescued, recover, get resettled, and finish a trial. Maybe they don't get rescued by the freighter?
My favorite theory is that we won't see the actual rescue until next season, maybe the end, before we see the actual rescue. By that time, Ben will be in charge of the freighter and it will be him the Oceanic 6 make a deal with to get off. He does it to keep others from sending ships when the freighter doesn't get back.
If the rescue doesn't happen until later, what will we see the rest of this season? (Note this is theory, not based on spoilers.) I think we'll get a few answers about some mysteries, notably the time difference. We'll see the F4 act all cocky, like they have so many answers, and then watch them slowly crumble as island events cut them down to size. That happens to everyone else on this island. It's the classic struggle between man versus "nature" - albeit in an exaggerated and supernatural form at times - where man thinks he can control nature but ends up dwarfed in power. Ben doesn't control the island. He just used the sonic fence to keep the monster out and he didn't control Jacob. The Oceanic 6 got off the island but still lost the battle with it because now they need to go back.
What human in this show has ever kept a hold over the island or prevailed for long? Lost is about how people try and fail.
Congrats Diggity. Here's hoping Memphis gets another shot at the Vols in the tourney. I'm actually glad they'll be taking a loss into the tourney; I just wish it wasn't Tenn.
Twinkle, great comments as usual. First off, there's a new video OLP? I wish ABC and iTunes could get their acts together. As for the SOTL-theme there, that was exactly what I was going for. For a show that for 3 years has told us it was about redemption, second chances, fresh starts, etc., the O6 don't seem to have taken advantage of any of this by the time they are off Island. One step forward, two steps back in a way. Of course for story-telling purposes conflict is better than happiness, so that's why it's going this way. It's just hard to take sometimes.
Sayid's Girl, I think they may not be rescued anytime soon either. I wouldn't be surprised to find it takes until the end of S5, then S6 could be all about going back to the Island.
Looking back on this episode and Ben and Locke's relationship it seems to me that Ben either a) has decided to throw his lot and his concern for the Island in with some group of 815ers other than Locke, a group that includes Sayid and possibly Sawyer or b) Ben just can't move past his rivalry with Locke even for the Island's sake. Ben's antagonizing those who have doubts about the Freighties isn't quite consistent to me. Are you trying to save the Island or yourself Ben?
twinkle said:
RE: Aaron -
TV PTB are notorious for using children not of the right age. Aaron hasn't been a newborn for most of the time he should have been a newborn. They aren't necessarily making a statement about Aaron's age by the age of the actor. We only notice bcz a lot of us have young kids.
Also I haven't seen anyone discuss the possibility that the boy may not be Claire's Aaron. Granted, in the Offical Lost Video Podcast Lilly thinks it was Claire's Aaron in the last scene, but that wouldn't stop the writers from pulling a switcheroo. There's also the outside chance that both Claire and Aaron die, Kate gets pregnant with Sawyer's baby, gives birth off island, and names him Aaron in tribute. The Lost writers themselves might not know yet which way it will fall.
I agree Aaron hasn't been a newborn in the show. But I believe that the child actor playing Aaraon in Eggtown is suppose to be close to the age that Aaron should be at this time. The actor looks 18 months 2 years in that range.
I think it was codysmom (not sure) who said she felt it may have been Kate's biological son and she named him in honor of Aaron. I had the thought that could be possible too. TPTB don't usually give such a straight forward answer. There's usually a twist. But for now I'm going with it is Claire's Aaron and something has happened to Claire.
memphish
I had a problem with the whole redemption thing too. That's what made me so sad about Sayid's flash forward story. I felt he was on his way towards redemption until something tragic happened that trapped him back into his old ways.
And I think that something was Ben.
Memphish,Maven,and more of you have mentioned the unliklihood of a trial playing out that way.Someone also mentioned that maybe the DA was working for one of the bad guys with lot's of money.The plea would have Kate stay put for 10 years.Long enough for The Bad Guys to find and take Aaron;(if it is Claire's Aaron,who is a special child).
Someone mentioned that there was no Christmas on the freighter.You mean like the S.S.Bah Humbug?
It sure would be nice if Locke could calm down long enough to find Ben's box of Dharma Holiday lights, and put them up outside his house.
It would really brighten the place up.
Nice episode : )
New Podcast!
http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-24061/TS-93948.mp3
Join hosts David A Dein and Steve "The Goog" Guglich as the unlock the mysteries of Season 4 Epsiode 4 of Lost entitled "Eggtown." Thry discuss Baby snatching (or lack thereof), endure minutes of Locke sympathy, and reveal a spoiler with the proper warning ahead of time. It all cluminates in a wacky theory, that's pretty darn good.
Join in the fun a frivolity by sending Mp3 Comments and E-mails to tlcpodcast@gmail.com or call our listner voicemail box at 206-202-3512 . Also the invitation is open if you'd like to be on the Lost Community Podcast and you have skype e-mail us and we'll set it up.
Hmmmmm, I kind of agree with Fishbiscuit's take on the ep.
NEW POST!!!!
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