The ABC tag for tonight's episode says, "Sayid and Kate go in search of Locke to negotiate a peaceful deal when they discover that his hostage may be the key to getting off the island." Sounds pretty boring...but I doubt that we'll be bored.
Here's a little Valentine Treat from David A Dein and the Goog! It's a bonus episode of The Lost Community Podcast that includes excerpts of Episode 32 and 33 of The Devil's Advocate Podcast in which we discussed Lost! Have a question or comment e-mail the show at TLCpodcast@gmail.com or call 206-202-3512 .
*ADMIN ANNOUNCEMENT*
On February 12, Blogger notified us of the following update to their comment platform: "Posts with more than 200 comments have them split across multiple pages." From this point forward, this development should eliminate the need for "lag alleviation" posts. If there are more than 200 comments, click "Newer" to move to the next page.
Thursday, February 14, 2008
The Economist - Season 4, Episode 3
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653 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 653 Newer› Newest»go to babel translation...see you get
it means "explanation"
i think this posted...it means "explanation" sorry if it show up twice...went to babel translation
I hate this new blogger format I just posted something and now I can't find it. Do you have to be on the newest page to post? When I posted it said 400 of 401. I posted on the previous page. Anyway if this shows up twice I apologise. Let's see if I can remember what I wrote.
maven said:
I'm beginning to think that the Freighter Team and the boat itself is close to our time line....
So do I. That's what I meant when I said the F4's flashbacks seemed more like flash forwards to me. That it seemed somehow out of sync.
The F4's flashbacks would technically be flashbacks. But from the perspective of Jack and company on the island they would be flashforwards . Time is technically the same but different. Does that make since?
That's close to what I said before.
Now I have to type in my password and id again.
Just marking my place! Great episode!
Now I'm going to catch up...this may take a while...:-)
Yup I thought that two..this is a new page...to me the island is some kind of break in time...I think things get stuck there...it is a break between past time (flash back) and future(lfalsh forward)...as I say the time is fouled up and the light from the sun is not the same.the island is stll but it is moving in a vortex of time.like a seed or moving concentrically in a spin of increasing in speed with each spin..desmond's boat was pulled in and could not esacpe..the plane was pulled in, the black rock was pulled in..time could actually be spended...maybe that is the problem with the pregancies..they happen in real time....just a guess I also think radio waves get stuck there and can't radiate out as in normal fashion...you can go in space and still here radio transmissions from the past...they just go on and on
I don't like this new page format either. If you post something on a previous page (that is an important point or theory to you), I feel that it will be lost in the shuffle. People coming to TLC will just see one page, and a lot of us and them don't know there are now multiple pages (even though it is stated on the front post).
Going to catch up on comments, but wanted to say J. Wood is up.
Penual said
Forces to be considered:
Ben
Alpert
Hanso
Mittlewerk
Widmore
Penny
Paik
Abaddon
Jacob
I had been thinking about this as well. There seems to be five factions of people on the island now, and the others aren't being addressed at all. Since the beginning of this season I have been wondering what is going on with Alpert and the others who were traveling across the island to the temple. The ARG Showed us an island temple and I am waiting to see it in the show, everything else has showed up so far...lol
Is anyone else wondering why there is no rigor mortis on Naomi at this point in the show she shoud be rock solid, and she still flops around like a ragdoll. She shouldn't be loose again until half way through tomorrow on the Island.
And whats up with the weird look that Faraday and Lapidus gave each other over the mention of Penelope Widmore, that sat very wrong with me.
Anyway just still trying to grasp everything we have seen in three weeks, it feels like i've watched six or seven episodes already... lol
Yep, this new format is wierd! ha benefits, but drawbacks too.
I like the radio waves ideas Tallone.
Right Ded, me too. That was reeeeeally conspicuous how they both looked at each other when Dez said that about Penny, or maybe just the Widmore part.
Scoutpost, JWood must have had to mull this ep over as much as we did before he could write something. This one really has me at a point where I don't know what to think about most of it, and it doesn't seem as if we have posted here as much as we normally do after an ep.
But if Elsa's boss is Ben stuck in a different timeline, that means Ben's paying Sayid to knock himself off? I don't buy into that.
So wait, are you sggesting, based On J.Woods' info, That Ben is sort of doing what Jat Li did in "The One", as in he is trying to bump off a different version of himself, because that other self is causing this Ben problem's?
Is that what you were getting at?
At the end When Ben told Sayid about the last time he thought with his heart, and not his gun,Sayid said you used that to get me to work for you.There may be another FF to show which relationship that was.
I love this season of Lost. It gives us so much more to think about;besides the usual unanswered questions.
I'm still confused about something. A few people, both here and at DarkUFO have mentioned an inscription on Elsa's bracelet. I don't recall seeing any such inscription, just that she had one that looked like Naomi's. We know that Naomi's bracelet had an inscription but where was it shown that Elsa's did as well? Or is it just an assumption based on the idea that the bracelets looked similar.
My guess is this is an assumtion by whomever posted it.
I don't think we saw an inscription on Elsa's...they just look very similar. They're both members of the Bracelet Brigade! LOL
After reading J.Woods:
I don't really agree with him (and others) when they say that TLE-1 was outside the show. Although it was not necessary for viewers to know the info from the game, the DHARMA Init did indeed show up in the show, as did their exploits on the island. Just thought I'd say that for no reason. :-)
I wonder if Miles' Flash-Whatever was actually an FF and not an FB? I dunno. I assumed it was an FB to give us the usual background character info. But after reading Woods, maybe we can't be sure until we find whether Miles does or doesn't get off the island in the end.
That "non-actual" stuff is just too much for me right now I think. :-B
If Charlie didn't get saved by Dez the first time, he would not be alive and around to not have to dive down into the LG anyway.
He's on about the freckles again. :o) Good article, as usual.
Village said: "...so much more to think about; besides the usual unanswered questions."
Perfectly said! :o)
I'm beginning to think that the Freighter 4's FB (in which we saw them learning of the freckage) are really FF to those on the island because we are starting to get confirmation that time on the island moves slower than the outside world (through Dan's experiment). Therefore, the survivors are still in 2004, but the Freighters are in 2007 (close to 2008)...something I laid out on the previous page (darn this new Blogger thing). This is something Sayid'sgirl has said a few times, and I really think that there is a lot to this way of thinking.
I like that. Sooo, should we now use a word like...Fast Middle or Fast In-between? :o)
I have to disagree for now. I don't think we have enough to go on with the time thing. We don't know if it is time lag or time difference that was measured. The island could just be 31 minutes off and not moving slower over all.
What i think I am trying to say is that you can't predict the possibilities of rolling a six sided die, after only rolling it once. I guess.
I know Ded, as for figuring out what time is doing, TPTB need to give us some more variables to plug into the problem, dangitt.
This little piece was in EW this week re Ben constantly getting beat up.
I was just thinking about the world series reference. For the freighter's time to be in 2007 it would have to be before the 2007 series.(if it is 2007 for them) Because even thought the Red Sox did go to the series in 2004 and 2007 they beat two different teams to get there. The Yankees in 2004 and the Indians in 2007. So when Frank said his dad bled Yankee blue he had to be refering to the 2004 series.
sayid'sgirl that is a very good point... I was starting to think there may have been something to that theory till then
I think I am going to have to read over the latest comments and read J Wood etc again. there is a lot to get your head around, a lot of character stuff and a lot of other stuff
Sayid'sgirl said: So when Frank said his dad bled Yankee blue he had to be referring to the 2004 series.
According to hubby (a big baseball fan) anytime the Red Sox won anything, the NY fans would bleed Yankee blue even if they weren't playing the Yankee's. There's a big rivalry between the Yankees and the Red Sox. So Frank could still be pissed about the 2007 Series.
maven
I will defer to your husband's baseball knowledge. I'm not a big baseball fan. I was when I was a kid though. I know how sports rivalries can be. I'll cheer for a football team I don't much like if they are playing against a certain (to remain nameless)team I don't like.
So I guess you could be right if the Sox went on to win and go to the series I guess it would make Yankee fans mad.They'd probably rather see any time other than the Sox go.
That should be any team. Not any time.
here's a question that may just be evidence of my brain being overload:
Daniel's watch and the equipment he set up on the island should have been subject to the same time anomally when they came to the island shouldn't have they? Or is the point of interest not what happened to them to get to the island but on the island? As I see it the only differences between the helicopter and the rocket is the speed they travelled to get to the island and the time spent on the island. The freighter may have also changed position a bit (I would think they'd try and get as close to the island as they could to save on chopper fuel whether they know about the chopper's current fuel situation or not).
I really do hope Daniel does a few more experiments next episodes and explains more of this to us!
going back to the baseball, someone somewhere mentioned the strange look that Frank gave Jack after he mentioned not having seen a baseball game for 100 days. I rewatched that scene earlier and just as Jack says that the scene cuts to Daniel announcing that the payload is finally arriving. We only see Frank react to the Red Sox comment, nothing about 100 days. And maven your explaination of the Red Sox/Yankees rival makes sense too, so I guess I'm not closing my book on the Freighterers being from 2007 just yet
Daniel's clock was a radio clock,,,,he set up an antenna and then turned on the clock,,,so where ever the signal came from is the time it read.....the clock on the rocket was a clock activated at the ship in real time..I am assuming the ship is staying away from the island to not enter the time change...daniel said to frank go out the way you came in...which means that if he went off the coordinates he came in there would be a problem...so if there is a radio clock and radio waves get trapped there and the Maxwell group(who is named after James maxwell,who discovered radio waves,electomagnetism)..then there is a force being generated that controls time on the island....you know as I was talking here...I recall how electiricity is generated.which is a magnet wrapped in an shell and is turned at high speed...here is the thing...where do the Barracks get there power to run lights,etc and draw water...I am a Red Sox fan and it is a very big deal when we play the yankees,,yankee fans feel the same about us.
ok I was thinking on this radio wave thing and clocks so I looked around and found info...daniels' clock could be a quartz clock which is a cheap verision of a synchronized clock...I found info on wikipedia... here's the link this is wordy and technical but read the 1st section and the end....all about clocks being synchronized by either radio transmission or a signal from the atomoc clock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_clock
Also satellite transmissions...like the phones from the freighter go up/down...regular radio goes in all directions. So satellite transmissions don't get trapped in the island....I don't know what to call it...power/pull/force...I wish we could get more info on the arrow(math)...hmm well i guess we are just going to wait for daniel to tell us.
Tallone;
Remember Season 3, Ben said it was the giant Hampsters...
checked on radio stuff again...Australia is the only nation to not rely on an accurate radio signal to standardize their time.....hmm would this apply to the island..they made their own time signal in lieu of no accurate signal from Australia? This presumes that it the island is not that far away.....just as aside cell phones and GPS systems use the signal form our atomic clock as do TV and radio stations.....I don't remember that about the hamsters...please refresh
Tallone,
When Locke came to blow up the sub,
He came into Ben's room.He asked Ben how they were able to have electricity there.Ben said we have giant Hampsters running on the wheel.(paraphrased)
Thanks..for the info
to be more specific http://www.losthatch.com/episode_facts.aspx?eid=78"
It also has audio.
"We have 2 giant Hampsters running on a massive wheel in our secret underground cave"
I found some videos on you tube that could explain energy on the island...the first is about Testla and his contributions to electricity..this has good visuals for electric conceptshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt8Y93k0pB0
Second here is a video of an electric tower from Testla's design...free wireless power..could this be our island power http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY-AS13fl30&feature=related
Lastly how to control one of those towershttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiUlqecQKUo&NR=1
checking hamster video
I guess i have trouble believing this..at that point in the story Ben is all about getting control of the survivors...so whether he is good intentions or bad..he will say or do anything to get his way...but thanks who knows anything is possible...
marking my place!
Great discussions, everyone. Good to see some new faces too.
Off to church now...catch up with ya'll later!
Tallone,
Sorry to beat a dead hampster,but the video is also on Youtube.com
Lost: Electricity Mystery Solved.
I think he says lair, or lab;but it was only a joke...Or was it?
Have a great Holiday weekend everyone.
hmm...Ben is not the most truthful person...Most important...I thought of this later...after the Hatch blew up...Remember Desmond did an electrical experiment that drew down lightning...he knows what the power source...power I think flows freely all over the island wirelessly..like in those videos I mentioned earlier....there that's it...I think I would call this distorted science.
ok really here's a video with electric burst...sounds like thunderhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY72athcwvA&feature=related
Lostit said...But if Elsa's boss is Ben stuck in a different timeline, that means Ben's paying Sayid to knock himself off? I don't buy into that.
Unless Ben is paying Sayid to knock off his Bad Twin...pardon me for still being convinced that the book means more than it does.
Hmmm, that does bring to mind the whle Casimir effect and the two #15 bunnies. If that's the case, it kinda makes you wonder which Ben's the bad one...
If Elsa's boss is another Ben, that could be the Ben that's on the island and therefore uses old technology and only calls once or twice a year and relies on Elsa to provide suplies - her job is to shop for him. And the one on the island keeps insisting "but we're the good guys".
Then Sayid could be following the other Ben because he still believes island Ben is the bad guy holding his friends hostage.
I don't know if Ben is Elsa's boss or not, but I was thinking that maybe there are two Bens, a la the Casimir effect or whatever that was that happened in the Orchid video.
I agree morelostthanu- I still hold onto some of those old theories and themes too!
I don't think that the freighter timeline is in 2007- partly because of the World Series comment. I know how big the NYY BRS rivalry is, but I think Frank would have said something different if he had been looking at the Red Sox winning the 2nd WS in 2007. Also, if the freighter timeline is 2007, and the O6 get off the island and plop down into 2007, then how do you explain Hurley's FF vs. Jack's TTLG FF? In Jack's TTLG FF we saw a phone that looked circa 2007, and date on the newspaper obit that was 2007 (I believe April). So that would mean that the O6 would have to be rescued, Hurley would have to have his breakdown, enter the mental hospital, and then Jack would have to have his downward spiral all by 4/07. JMHO I think the F4 are still operating in 2004/2005 scenario. But I will say that all of this time shift/travel/difference stuff is so up in the air right now, and so over my head, that I guess anything could be possible. I wonder if there are just several timelines going on here- maybe even more than just island time and freighter time.
I do like J. Wood's theories, too- about the actual/nonactual worlds. I've always thought along those lines, although I could have never articulated the idea with any sense of clarity or reason. :)
I just think that right now- and I think capcom said this- that while we know definitively that there is a timespace issue going on, we have no idea yet how to figure out what the issue is.
tallone thanks for refering to atomic clocks etc. I'm still not sure it explains everything but at least provides some possibilities.
Is it Thursday/Friday yet?
Happy Sunday Everyone! I heard an interesting idea about the time thing on The Transmission podcast and wanted to run it by everyone. The poster's idea was that depending on the bearing on which you enter or exit the Island affects what time you're in. I guess what he meant was if you leave on bearing say 325 it is 12/24/04, but if you leave on bearing 146 it might be 1942 or 2010. I'm not sure I buy it, but it's easier than trying to do a bunch of math and could also explain Ben's out of circulation currency and Desmond's trip to the 90s not to mention Ben's amazing foreknowledge of many things including Jack's desire to return to the Island.
I also had another idea about how Jack becomes one of the Oceanic 6. I think Christian Shephard's spirit might be at work to insure his son leaves the Island. Maybe he causes someone to be injured needing the doctor to leave first with that person or perhaps he even injures Jack himself or as I speculated earlier maybe he makes sure the method for getting off the Island is something Jack alone can pilot be it plane, chopper or submarine.
Hi All!
Nice ideas Tallone. The problem of powerplants and power sources on the island have been a stickler for a while now. I guess that on an island like that, you could have lots of choices; volcanic heat source, ocean winds, sun, waterfalls, the magnetism, etc. Myself, I'm going with an "Island of Dr. Moreau" angle with Manimals working at the hamster wheels. :-)
I like the idea of the atomic clock synchronization of the time pieces. That would seem to have much greater ramifications on the experiment than even just the second timer getting there late!
Morelost, I'm still waiting for the book to have significance as well....I guess I'll be turning purple soon from holding my breath so long, haha.
Yeah Scoutpost, I think that it's safe so far to assume that SOMEone got duplicated in that Casimir contraption that duplicated Bunny15. I wonder if they were able to send Bunny15-2 back to the future? If not, then you would have an extra someone hanging around that wasn't there before. Not good.
Whoa! That's a neat idea Memphish, about the coordinates in relation to where in time you would be leaving the island. Wow. Why didn't we think of that?! :o)
You CS theory could very well be -- if he is at hand to help Jack on the island like in the Mobisode, he might also help him get off too.
Dang, Tallone, those are some great vid links! The Forgotten Wizard is so sad and true.
Per DarkUFO: Jorge posted on The Fuselage that production on LOST resumes, March 10th!
Scoutpost (re the Freighters being in 2007 and the island in 2004): I agree that there can be a lot of loopholes in this theory. Now, we know that TPTB very rarely give us actual dates or years. Whether the Red Sox winning the Series was in 2004 or 2007 was left ambiguous (like everything else on the show). And, if Frank is in 2007, the latest win would be on his mind. It would have been nice if he said "again", but that would make it too easy. LOL But RED SOX was a season 4 clue in Find815. I think that was a big hint that it might be a clue to the time line. It's been used in the past with Jack and Christian and Ben showing the video of the 2004 win. I just think it being a clue word was meant to tell us something important. And I also think there would be enough time for the O6 to get back in the real world and still sync up to the April 2007 time when Jack saw the obit. Three and a half or 4 months would be enough time for Hurley to end up at Santa Rosa and Jack to be in such despair (he was already on the way in the first epi pouring vodka into his oj).
I don't think we have the whole picture as to the time problems. But Dan already seems to know there is a time anomaly on the island and this first experiment just made it weirder. We need to see more of this.
Has anyone checked out the deleted scene that Doc Arzt posted? It's interesting, it seems as if maybe Miles heard the whispers talking about what they were doing. Or maybe Naomi talked to him.
Sorry in advance if someone mentioned this already.
Capcom: I saw that deleted scene on DocArtz. I'm sure that's one of the reasons that Miles is on the Team...he can talk to dead people (if that is what the whispers are). He sure is pretty arrogant, though! LOL
Too bad they took that scene out, it's really a loaded concept that would have been interesting and infomative for us to see.
BTW, Fishbiscuitland mentions Time Dilation, and here's a simple vid that I found on Youtube about it, how movement can cause something to seem or look like it takes longer to get somewhere. Similar to the vid that Tallone posted about the trains, lightning, and mirrors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHjpBjgIMVk
BTW, that time dilation vid shows a laser being shot from one point to another, on two rockets in space. Pretty similar to Dan's experiment.
Hi all, just seen the episode in the UK and I'm loving the titbits we are being thrown and as usual getting annoyed at the seemingly endless stream of questions.
Just a quick 'note' on the banknotes. The £20 note is one with Michael Faraday on the back as someone has pointed out.
This note was withdrawn in 2001 and replaced with one with Edward Elgar (British Composer). This is now being phased out and being replaced with one with a picture of Adam Smith (a political economist), although both of these are still legal tender.
The older note can still be exchanged, but the person bearing the note has to go to the Bank of England to exchange it.
Does this say something about Island Time (IT ?) or does it just tie in with the name of the scientist ?
hey all....hmm that's interesting about the coordinates.. I've guess I've covered all the background info the power radio waves..then again..I'm convinced Desmond has the info on all this..remember he has been back in time once...maybe during the blast he got special knowledge...what it all comes done to I think is Daniel will lead us there...whatever he found out he sure flipped out in the future! I agree with a previous person that maybe 2004/2005 is where the island and its inhabitants are stuck. As Red Sox thing, as Maven said, is unclear...
Is it Sunday/Monday yet??That's one clock that should get stopped!
You guys really confused me with all the chatter about the times elapsing with Daniels experiemtn. I just finished watching the episode over here in the UK and this is what i thought about the time-difference
At 2:45pm the Rocket should have landed with Daniel, this is the point where Regina said "0 kilometres" he stopped the watch at 2:45pm but he didnt receive the rocket until 31 minutes later. presuming (and seeing as there was no break mid-scene) the scene was in real-time it should have taken the rocket around 26 seconds to reach Daniel. so using the ratio of 26:1860 (31 minutes is 1860 seconds) 1860/26=71.538 so lets round that up to 72 seconds. so for every 1 second on the island 72 seconds happen off-island (1:72 ratio) so we find out it has been 100 days on-island meaning 7200 days. 7200/365 (365 days in a year) would mean 19 years have passed. But that just does not add up. okay it would make sense why every1 gets so freaked out by them but it would not make sense for two reasons.
1)Unless they are on about different games the Pilot knows that the Red Sox won the World Series...unless the Red Sox win the World Series in 19 years (lol dont laugh at me if its not called the world series i dont know all your yank sports :p)
2) When juliette went to the island her sister was due her son soon, after juliette had been on the island for 3 years, ben showed juliette a video of her sister and her son, julian who looked about 3 years old. but again, that could have been a video that was 19 years old.
The math seems to say 19 years but whilst its a cool concept i dont see it working with the storyline... unless of course they were stop watches meaning it should have arrived with in 2 minutes 45 seconds (and 3 miliseconds) but actually arrived in 3 minutes 16 seconds (and 22 miliseconds) which would make the ratio 165:196 seconds which is roughly 1.12 difference, which would make it completely irrelevant really to how much time they spent on the island because they would have to be there for a realllllly long amount of time for it to make any difference to how long they were "missing"
I dunno, are there anything else that has been discussed ive only managed to trawl through the first page of comments lol
Zort70: Thanks for the first-hand info on the bank notes. So that Faraday note is unusable in commerce...it needs to be exchanged at a bank first. Interesting. Maybe Ben has so much money that he just keeps outdated money lying in that drawer and doesn't bother to exchange it. It would put a time line of 2001 in the mix in terms that Ben has been off the island prior to 2001. Also, the shot of the money showing Faraday, was probably used to emphasize the importance of his scientific work to the mythology of the show.
I'm glad somebody did the math!
I second that Tallone!
Okay quick theory, the Bracelet Brigade all work for the same guy whether that is BadTwin Ben (Aka BTBen) or Abbadon, whoever it is they work for, they all want the same thing or are working towards the same thing, the island.
Ben from the future is still doing the same thing Ben on the island is doing, protecting it. He believes that if those people go to the island "everything living thing there will die" so he's having them killed off before they try to get there. But this time theres a difference, Sayid knows that when they get to the island they will kill the 815ers that were left behind. So he has to do Ben's dirty work or they die and he does it because he has too, but he gets upset because he's gone back to the same person he was before the island an dmindless killer. OR thats all aload of crap and Ben IS still protecting the island from those guys but is saying to Sayid "kill them or i kill your friends"
Ah i worded that all wrong, but im shattered so im gunna go to sleep now and will carry on tomorrow, im gunna watch an episode of house and fall asleep lol
night guys
I'm not even trying to do this math!
Good thoughts Picsel, but me too, I'm going to go think about something else for a while so my brain can cool down. :-O
Hi Everyone! I was just reading some excerpts from one of my newsgroups and this guy is a physicist. I find his comments extremely interesting, thought you guys might too:
Mike @ (another) group said:
Well, how long as Walt been gone? They left around day 65.
Locke saw him around day 92. So we have 27 days or 38,880 minutes elapsed on the Island. If the time dilation of 1:31 is fixed relative to on-Island, off-Island, then that would mean in those 27 days that elapsed on the Island, 810 days would have elapsed off of the
Island, which is slightly over 2 years.
-and-
That's the way I'm leaning. A donut of warped space-time around the Island, expect for along a particular heading, with the warping such that clocks passing through it register more time (i.e. run faster)than clocks outside of the warping. This would also explain why, unless you travel along that single trajectory, you would never
leave, as the space dimension could wrap back on itself, like a
Mobius strip.
This certainly could explain some things in absolute scientific terms. What do you guys think?
xxoo
I agree good thoughts and good work Picsel, but I think that different trajectories in and out of the island take you to different times.
Therefore the trajectory that the rocket was shot towards the island gives you a 72:1 ratio. The reason Faraday told Frank over and over to take the same course off the island as he had coming is that he realized that.
Other trajectories may take you years into the past and some take you months into the future. Perhaps that explains further the television room that Patchy was in with Ben. Maybe different television feeds give you glimpses into television feeds of the future. That's how Ben knew the plan would crash.
math is math...nice for someone else...I agree maven
Geez...I wish ABC would just drop a clue somewhere on this..Ok that's it for today....I'm too wired!!
The Mobius strip idea is an interesting concept. If you look at the picture in the link I provided imagine the island inside of the strip. The strip being warped space and time. The only realtime trajectory into the island would be the path from the right. Every other path would be alternate times and the path to the left would be the most warped. Interesting...
link
That's Moebius btw
That was a very good link, morelostthanu-nice to meet you by the way! Welcome. I am a habitual lurker, but I only post here.
I think this info about the Moebius Strip is very relevant.
It makes a lot of sense when you think about Daniel's insistence that the pilot follow the same heading out as the one they came in on. He was very insistent as a matter of fact! Frantic, in fact.
xxoo
Thanks for that link, morelostthanu. My head aches thinking about all this scientific math stuff. Glad there are people around like you to find and sort it out.
I agree with Ellen that because Dan was very adamant about Frank using the same heading, echoing Ben's directions to Michael, makes you think that there's only one way in and out. Anything else might be fatal, or can screw up your time line.
Maven said:
I agree with Ellen that because Dan was very adamant about Frank using the same heading, echoing Ben's directions to Michael, makes you think that there's only one way in and out. Anything else might be fatal, or can screw up your time line.
Yes, and imagine how it might be if, in straying from a particular heading, the space folded back on itself and you are stuck in it? Wonder if this is the case with Jacob and Christian? Maybe that's what Jacob wants help with...
xxoo
I have a question about the time dilation example in the video Capcom posted. If time is perceived differently because one of the observers is fixed and the other in motion, in our example what's in motion? The Island since the time was longer on the rocket?
Speaking of Realtivity as we seem to be, I was reading a book yesterday which had a brief chapter on it.
The thing that I pulled out from it apart from the whole time bending part is that if a gravitational body is sufficiently large then light will also be bent around it.
So if you are standing head on to the object looking at it straight ahead then you will not see it as light will be bent to a different spot. To be able to see it you have to stand in the place where the light is bent to.
This might explain why the island is difficult to find ?
ellen thankyou for posting those comments from that other group, I have been wondering about the possible time distortion and the ratios and stuff since the hatch blew rather than going right back to when the plane crashed. And conveniently Walt and Michael left the same day. That it still seems relevant to take a certain bearing when traveling to or from the island, I'm not sure whether the hatch's doom has anything to do with it. But a 2 year difference is much easier to get my head around than a 19 year difference.
Also if the light is being bent then the people on the freighter will not be looking directly at the island.
So if they are launching the payload towards the island, then it would not go directly there but be taken on a different path.
I did assume that the payload was laser or radar guided rather than a straight trajectory type of projectile. The equipment DF set up would guide the projectile in (like a laser guided missile)
That could be why it landed so close to the equipment and missed the very large and important helicopter !
wow you guys....I forgot that about Walt and Micheal left in the same track as Frank. I wonder why Alder, the guy Ben told to go to the temple, doesn't age. I personally will try to avoid the math stuff only because I don't think the writers, I imagine, are scientists. I think time has slowed ever since Daniel said the light scattered. It takes huge amounts of energy to go past the speed of light..time slows,aging slows,people in real time continue to age in their time. Here's the thing if this has some connection by radio waves, then is this being controlled by people off the island? The question is who knew what when..who has the bad intent..Dharma,Ben,Maxwell,Widmore,Hanso? Also poking around I discovered that Hanso has an adoption service...check some blogs on this..won't say here definitely a spoiler. Also Hanso acknowledges that the plane came down due to the effects of electromagnetism.
hey I found this morning...this could be an explanation for the bracelet brigade..they keep track of the person as they move through time...I don't know if I believe all this...but it is an interesting discussion. Also it talks about generating power without traditional means and establishing several time portals at once...ok it is dull big time but worth looking at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXKD8Nhe6Cw
hey guys this video is good on Tesla..it says 1.) that electricity(proven)can be transmitted wirelessly from a distance 2.) it can send lightening UP to the sky 3.) it can modify the weather 4.) it has enough power to run whole commumities on the ground 5.) it can bring things down from the sky with a single burst.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXfWbEiTLII&feature=related
So this could and I say could this pretty much is our island issues.
placeholder!
wow. all caught up. my head's gonna explode...
is it Thursday yet?
Btw, I don't think Jacob's cabin moved. I think he's hiding the place from Locke because he's got so many people with him, and Jacob isn't going to let all those people see him without an invitation. So Jacob's cabin is obscured.
hmmm..I know this really is taking grasp of my imagination...anyway here's one of tesla's gizzmos in action...watch the hats and and cats no it's not Dr. Seuss...if though the lost story line is fiction this stuff about tesala is true...he was dismissed and the government does control of some of his patents.anyway I will stay off that Geez..ok time to work http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiRNDlNyKwk
Carol-I agree, and 2 years is also more fitting with our timeline here on LOST. It explains Walt's growth spurt, the Red Sox/World Series thing and I just can't help but think this guy is on to something. He's very smart and good at explaining complicated science to all of us who have a difficult time grasping some of the concepts.
xxoo
Matthew Fox is on GMA and Regis/Kelley this morning. GMA interview was excellent.
Matthew is promoting "Vantage Point". Still, he's great eye-candy no matter what he's promoting! (*grin*)
xxoo
Correction-Regis/Kelley interview with M. Fox is tomorrow...(sorry)
xxoo
Good morning gang, Happy President's Day!
This has been some amazing discussion, but I'm having a hard time finding a theory that I like and/or believe is possible.
I agree with Maven and Ellen in that Red Sox was a Find 815 clue and dangit I want it to MEAN something!
Also with all the discussion I though it might be interesting to have another look at the National Geographic article that Jess dug up a while ago. The first one is about Electromagnetic Wormholes and how they are actually being developed. Further there is some research on successful cloaking devices on the two dimensional level only. This made me think of our island after watching The Economist again just now because they showed us the grey powder again. I think I'm with A2BH in that Jacob's cabin might just be not visible to Locke right now and maybe the powder is acting as some kind of metamaterial that they have found out how to produce and advance WAY beyond current science, on the island?
I might have missed out on the bulk of this conversation, but I have to side with those who say the Jack-Frank World Series conversation was entirely about the '04 Series. I don't buy the theory that the F4 are from the future.
As neat as it sounds on a message board to say "Well, what if Frank thinks Jack's talking about the 2007 Series, but Jack's really talking about the 2004 Series?" can you imagine trying to write a scene where they explain that later on in the season?
Frank: Wait. This is 2004?
Jack: Of course it is! What year do you think it is?
Frank: It's 2007, man!
Jack: It can't be 2007! We've only been here for 100 days! Besides, didn't you say the Red Sox won the Series?
Frank: Well, yeah. They beat the Colorado-- Oh, wait. You thought I meant the 2004 Series... I'm such an idiot. Sorry. They actually won twice in four seasons.
Jack: They won twice in four seasons? That's amazing!
Frank: Don't rub it in. You see, I bleed Yankee blue and-- Oh, wait. When I said that before, you probably thought I meant I was bummed because they came back from an 0-3 hole to win the '04 ALCS against a bumbling New York ballclub. I can see where that might be confusing... My bad.
Ange, checking out those links...BL to comment!! (Good Morning!)
Erich- LOL!! That's funny...!
xxoo
Tallone~ The writers aren't scientists, but you can do a lot with a great imagination and a little bit of research. Look at how much we find on a daily basis.
Additionally, your comment about an outside source controlling the island perhaps that explains the connection to the desert. I was thinking that if this has been going on for a very long time what if it explains how the Pyramids of Egypt were built in such a short period of time. As in, they were actually built in a long period of time, but the area they were built in had distorted time like the island.
Any holes in the time distortion might be chocked up to the fact that it didnt get really distorted on the island until the swan imploded, which would only have been a few days before on the island and thats why daniel said this is not good, because it is worse than they had thought, perhaps daniel is there to try to fix the swan.
ps dennis sayid isnt off the island in 2004 if the wrinkle in time theory has any weight, sayid is off doing his assasinations somewhere between hurley apologizing to jack and jack growing his beard which could go all the way up to 2007, remember jacks slick krazr
This is from gstake at Pop Candy, but Ralph on The Dharmalars asked this question as well about Sayid:
Ok, here's what i am almost sure is going on. they kept referring to minkowski. minkowski is a mathematician and here's his story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Minkowski after you read that, you will know that Sayid is not working for ben in the future. he is working for him in the current. all of this is going on at the same time but in different dimensions. that is how there are different times and such. sayid is the man ben has on the boat. he knew the info about charlotte because even though sayid is on the island currently with ben, he is also on the boat in a different dimension. read the wiki about minkowski and it will make way more sense.
Good grief - you people are on a roll! I've been AWOL all weekend, and just now caught up. Whew! :)
Okay, here's my crazy and/or completely plausible Walt theory:
Walt appears taller/older to Locke NOT because of a great time difference between the island and the outside world, but because this vision is actually coming back from the future (almost how Des went back in time in Flashes).
Think of this:
Jack (et al) gets off the island. He eventually realizes that he's made a terrible mistake. He seeks out the one person who might be able to tell him how to get back - Michael. Walt hears this and realizes that something really bad has gone down. He uses his powers of the mind to send a message back to Locke, to try and keep it from ever happening. However, he doesn't go back looking the way he did on the island, he goes back looking the way he does now (like astral projection into the past).
Does that make any sense?
memphish - I just read your last post as I was getting ready to post my co-worker's crazy time loop theory! He says:
Sayid is the man on the boat (!)
Desmond is the one who gave the photo of him and Penny to Naomi
Wow ML. I like that Desmond part! It makes my head hurt to figure out how that works exactly though. It's like mirrors reflecting mirrors.
Okay, other wacky thoughts (I have been bottling this in for WAY too long!):
Ben has some secret way to leave the island. The only reason I can think of for him not leaving the island to get his surgery is that he wants his people to think that he never leaves. If he had the surgery off-island, he would be in recovery long enough for people to notice that he's missing. Ben does't seem like the "roughing it" type, so I doubt he could explain a long absence with a camping trip or the like. This would explain the secret room full of suits and cash - maybe Ben has some secret way to take off for a day trip?
I LOVE that one of Ben's fake names is Dean Moriarty! In On the Road, Dean is very much the con-man, free-wheeling and slightly goofy. Jack Kerouac's character, Sal Paradise idolizes him for his lifestyle - however, by the end of the book, Sal has realized that Dean is probably far more destructive than anything else, and he kind of drifts away from him. I wonder if this plays into Ben's character at all. Also, Dean is based on Neal Cassidy, who eventually died of exposure - he drank himself into a stupor and passed out naked in a train yard in the middle of winter. Something tells me Ben wouldn't go that far. :) But is Ben maybe a bit a of a Sal Paradise himself, wishing he had the courage to be as spontaneous and crazy as Dean? Maybe Ben wishes he had the guts to leave the island for good, and these little excursions are his chance to do just that, albeit briefly?
memphish - LOL, I thought so, too. It was making my head spin.
Although, after thinking about it for awhile, it does kind of jive with my theory that Penny knows where to look for Des because of everything he told his friend about the island in the past.
However, it does not jive if the freighter people are evil - why would Des give them an in? Unless that was supposed to be part of the master plan:
Give Naomi the photo.
Tell her to use Penny as a cover story.
When everyone finds out the Penny story isn't true, they won't trust the freighter folks and won't go with them.
If that was the idea, Des better come up with a plan B quick!
ML, my head is spinning trying to wrap my brain around that theory. The one problem I see with it is now there are two Franks on the boat. Doesn't that create some sort of catastrophic effect?
My morning coffee is doing nothing to help me make sense of all your great theories! LOL I love how we're all thinking, but I still think we're missing big pieces of the puzzle.
Here was a great piece in the LA Times today: "'Lost' off to a quick startle".
morelost - yeah, if that theory is true, then we're in for some trouble when that helicopter lands. Unless the two versions merge as they seemed to do when Des went back to the past.
LOL erich
Ok They're probably not in 2007. But I don't think they are in 2004 either.
memphish said:
...It's like mirrors reflecting mirrors.
That made me think of The Third Policeman.
Hi all, and enjoy the day off all teachers, if you've got it. :-)
A donut/moebius-surface of space-time around the island! We're getting there, Ellen! Hey, where is that newsgroup that you got that from?
Memphish, that is my main problem with the time dilation...where is the vantage point of observation for the island experiment, and how is the ship-to-island trip not the same as the spaceship-to-spaceship volley? Ugh. We need a video that shows how/why it could look different from the other spaceship.
I like the tracking bracelet idea!
Memphish said "Sayid is not working for Ben in the future. He is working for him in the current." Well, I can really get into that idea. And I just read a synopsis of Proust's "In Search of Lost Time", and it says..."Instead of a thread of time, Proust created a model of narrative time that resembled a tightly tied shoelace: a continuous line that keeps looping back and wrapping around itself, bringing part of the thread in contact with the others that would usually remain separated." Which is obviously where the Quantum Leap" peeps got their definition if time looping, for that one episode where Al has to re-explain it so Sam.
Hey! No spoilers Erich! But seroiusly, I would like to see that conversation happen!
Good work everyone! We are going to be geniuses by the time this series is over. :-D
We all have our theories...be they crazy or not...and I'm sticking with the Island being in 2004 and the Outside world being in 2007 and the Red Sox conversation was Jack talking about the 2004 win and Frank talking about the 2007 win. And Erich, I can see a conversation happening like that (only not as funny)! When the Losties realize the time problems that will be the moment that will make the whole series (and I don't mean baseball series)!
BTW, I agree Morelost, looking at the Moebius strip, perhaps the Magic Coordinates for escape from the island are the flat part of the strip, and if you veer from that course, you will just get trapped in the warped walls that rise up to turn into the other side of the strip surface. Then you might just get stuck going around and around in the bloody snowglobe like in a gravity well, till you fall back into the island again.
Now how can we correlate the Moebius surface to the Dilation theory?!
So Maven, when do you think Oceanic 815 was found in the Sunda Trench? 2004, 2007, somewhere in between?
As for the problem of 2 Franks, I think Flashes Before Your Eyes established that time travel from the Island doesn't result in 2 of you, but rather your future knowing consciousness being put into your present existing body. At least we didn't encounter 2 Desmonds or an out of place Desmond in that episode. In other words, Penny, her father, his friend, all expected Desmond to be in London in those places on those dates, but Desmond knew something about his future and TPTB said he traveled in time. That's also why Frank on the Island in what Jack thinks is 2004 knows about the 2007 series.
I vaguely remember someone mentioning this before (Carol, I want to say it was you), but this also reminds me a bit of the Chronicles of Narnia stories by our friend, CS Lewis. There is one in particular, The Magician's Nephew, I believe, where the characters come to a forest clearing and find several small ponds. Jumping into one of the ponds takes you to a completely different world. Perhaps this is a (far-fetched) explanation of how Ben can travel around without anyone noticing? Almost like a tiny wormhole?
Wow this is amazing! Ange will check out worm-hole thing..You know this story line is similar to the conspiracy theories revolving Nike Tesla and the Philadelphia Experiment...Edison and J.P.Morgan actively discredited him..later he developed a photo-ray that could take objects out of the air..being patriotic..he turned all his patents over to the U.S. government..in 1943 the government did an experiment on time travel using Teslas ideas in 1943, part of that was the participants wore bracelets to keep of them/
I like The Magician's Nephew ML. It's often overlooked in the Chronicles of Narnia. Not only could the children (not the Pevensies, another 2) travel from one world to the other via a way station type of land, but they witness both the beginning and end of worlds. They also free an evil in one world to escape into another in a Pandora's box kind of fashion.
Don't know whether it's going to happen, but I love the idea that Sayid is Ben's man on the boat, and that Desmond gave Naomi the picture. The implications are possibly too staggering for it to be true, but wow!
The time travel stuff makes my head hurt, too, though I'm open to it. Maybe the F4 are from some kind of future, though I personally doubt it. One more observation about the multiple Red Sox wins: isn't there a good chance this episode was written before the Sox won this year's Series? They could have added it in later, but... I dunno.
For now, I think we've been shown that time moves differently on the island than it does off the island. Whether it's just that the island is 31 minutes in the future, or there's some spatial force field that causes an inverse reflection of the space-time continuum as a relative expression of corporeal movement in three-dimensional space. Or something like that.
Tallone said: "...part of that was the participants wore bracelets to keep [track?] of them."
Seriously????? Wow, that could be a serious clue that you've discovered. :-D
memphish - I agree, Magician's Nephew and A Horse and His Boy are highly underrated, I think mostly because they sort of exist outside of the main timeline.
Ben's line about Sayid going with his heart rather than his gun also reminded me of the Gunslinger's Creed:
I do not aim with my hand; He who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
I aim with my eye.
I do not shoot with my hand; He who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
I shoot with my mind.
I do not kill with my gun; He who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father.
I kill with my heart.
Interesting, Melissa!
I posted your Moebius theory on my blog Morelostthanu. I'm trying to keep track of the main ideas that we are coming up with as we find them, just in case they start to connect with each other somehow. Big thanks to Tallone, too.
Capcom- the source for that post about Moebius Strip is here:
Lost-ABCTV Group
and I was reading this blog this morning (just discovered a treasure trove of blogs-Memphish, Capcom!) and I really do agree that Adam and Eve could be Desmond and Penny- really makes a lot of sense!!
You can check it out here: (as if most of you haven't already!)
The Lost Elders
I am just having so much fun reading and lurking, and learning so much! LOVE the theories!
xxoo
Also, I developed a theory about the wormholes that you can check out here:
Ellen's Page
My theory is at the bottom of the page, all the sources are above beginning at the top.
I first posted all this here ages ago.
xxoo
Thanks Ellen, and I like your blog!
WoW! I'm finally caught up! Great theories everyone!
I feel like I just had a major crash-course in upper level physics..oi!
My random thoughts (Speculation)after the epi:
Did anyone else notice the sonar-pings immediately before Elsa asks Sayid if she knew him from somewhere? Don't know what it means, if anything, but it caught my attention during the show, that's for sure.
The look Frank & Dan give each other after Desmond questions Frank makes me think that they haven't seen or heard of Penelope Widmore, but they've definitely seen and heard of Daddy Widmore, who I believe Daniel works for.
I agree that the Bracelets aren't exactly identical, but I believe the women who wear them have something in common: their employer, the Economist.
I really like these ideas of the Moebius Strip and Time Dialation, or some variation thereof: I'm no expert.
I also really like the idea of Ben having his own Bad Twin.
I too think that they definitetly seem well acquainted with the Widmore name, Brianne!
I just tried to figure out logically if Sayid could be the man on the ship and there is no way possible. It's a GREAT idea but there are so many problems that this creates.
Like this has to be before Naomi leaves so that Des can give her the picture, but then she will see her dead body.
There are the two Frank's which are not fixed by the Flashes Before Your eyes thing because it's not the same travel as Desmond. I think only Desmonds concious mind travelled that time, not his physical being. This time it's actual beings.
There are more problems as well. Maybe Patchy swam to the boat?? LOL
Thanks, Capcom, I like yours too!
xxoo
OMG. I went off last night early to watch an episode of House, because my head was spiining with LOST stuff and i was shattered, so i thought "i'll go watch an episode of house and fall asleep to it, it'll get my mind off of LOST"
Unfortunately for me Elizabeth Mitchell (aka Dr Juliet Burke) was the main character of the episode that i was watching, meaning everytime she was on screen i started thinking LOST.
BTW, did anyone hear what the morning show LOST secret was that was supposed to be revealed Friday? I haven't seen anything about it, so it must have not been too much of a biggie reveal.
Heheh, we are in a LOST time loop for sure Picsel! :-D
Oh, morelost - my co-worker will be crushed!
To be honest, although I like the Sayid-is-the-man-on-the-boat theory, I don't really believe it for a second. Although if it turns out to be true, I'll deny I ever said that!
Devil's Advocate, though:
There don't have to be two Franks - Des and Sayid could be time traveling on their own.
Des could have given the photo to Naomi at some point in the past before she got on the freighter.
I think the assumption is that the helicopter that Sayid, Des, Frank and dead Naomi are on time travels, which I don't think necessarily has to be the case.
memphish said:
So Maven, when do you think Oceanic 815 was found in the Sunda Trench? 2004, 2007, somewhere in between?
As for the problem of 2 Franks, I think Flashes Before Your Eyes established that time travel from the Island doesn't result in 2 of you, but rather your future knowing consciousness being put into your present existing body. At least we didn't encounter 2 Desmonds or an out of place Desmond in that episode. In other words, Penny, her father, his friend, all expected Desmond to be in London in those places on those dates, but Desmond knew something about his future and TPTB said he traveled in time. That's also why Frank on the Island in what Jack thinks is 2004 knows about the 2007 series.
My understanding was Desmond traveled back along his own past and then relived it retaining the memories of his future. How ever the memories seemed suppressed and needed to be triggered.
That it looped back over it's self. That would only make one Desmond being there. Which I think is what you're saying.
I know it's a fine line. But if in general you went back in time not reliving your own past which I think some are saying Ben may be doing wouldn't that create 2 Bens?
Also meeting Charlie in his past the second time, which he hadn't the first time. I think is what changed things for Desmond and Charlie.
Oh I don't know about maven but I think find815 and Sam were either in 2007 or somewhere inbetween but not 2004. JMO
Memphish said: So Maven, when do you think Oceanic 815 was found in the Sunda Trench? 2004, 2007, somewhere in between?
I do think that the freckage was found late 2004 (prior to Christmas, maybe mid-December). We can even fudge that and put it into 2005 (with Oceanic taking a year to try and find it, but announcing that they've given up which sets Sam off on his journey). But I'm not quite sure when we see the F4 finding out about it...via radio, TV and print (interestingly, no internet though). It would make sense that all this news about the freckage would be at that same time because it would be current news. I'm assuming it would take some time to gather all the info necessary to equip the freighter and recruit the Team...get them together...convince them to do it (whatever that is)...get them on the freighter. But I can see that it wouldn't necessarily take 2-3 years to do that. This could be a big hole in the theory that the island is in 2004, and the outside world is in 2007. So I'm willing to have second thoughts about this, but I still think it's a cool, crazy theory...even with this hole! LOL
Good point ML, but I guess that hammers home the point that we are all speculating. Very little of what we are considering may actually be the case. But it is very fun to speculate.
I boldly predict that Daddy Widmore is on the boat or is definately connected to it
I cant believe i never thought of The Magicians Nephew and the wormholes, i played Aslan in a stage production of in November LOL!
Cant believe i never thought of that, good thinking.
Tee, hee - EXACTLY morelost!
Speculating is half the fun as far as I'm concerned. :)
Ellen: I checked out your blog, and you've summed up most everything so even I can understand things now. Add in the Moebius Theory and Time Dilation, and I think you all are getting on the right track.
Morelostthanu: I agree that Widmore has something to do with the freighter. We gather from Find815 that his subsidiary, the Maxwell Group, was involved in the freckage.
I think it's a cool crazy theory too maven.
morelost
I agree all of this is huge speculation and it is very fun to do it.
JMHO-I think it's our speculations and creative ideas that make LOST such a rich experience for all of us.
I know when I talk about the story plots during each episode when DH and I are watching past eps, the extra details fascinate him more than the actual episode, and he is NOT a fan, ok? After 3 years, he's just now beginning to understand why I find LOST so wonderful! (sheesh!)
He's even starting to "suggest" we watch occasionally on the weekends when we are veggin' out. The first time he did that, my jaw dropped to the floor!
Anyway, I really do feel "enriched" being able to blog, comment and lurk!!
xxoo
I agree Maven, I think we are all heading on the right track. All these things just make sense. They fit the bill regarding the explanations and answers (ambiguious as they were) that Damon and Carlton gave in their podcasts about the nature of the island, etc. in past years. They DID say that most of the strange things we see on the island is pretty much based on accepted scientific facts with a little "stretch" here and there maybe. I agree, but it sure took a long time to get those ideas across to us.
I admit, I wasn't much into scientific theories, advanced mathematics, etc. before LOST! But now, well, you see what I spend most of my days reading!
I feel very fortunate that I am able to have the time to do just that!
xxoo
oooo..! Terry O'Quinn on The View tomorrow! Hope the interview is better with him than with others I've seen lately.
xxoo
Lost the video game is coming out next week. Being a sucker, purchased Bad Twin, I will buy this just for the interaction with the island. It could be a good game.
I am not sure if I like the new format or not, but I like everything being on one post. This could have been useful during the ARG.
Peace & Namaste
Thrasher! Long time no see...glad you're here!
Let us know what you think of the video game.
xxoo
I second things that you said Ellen. Although I am a born Scifi/science geek, I've not got the chops to do the math, so I just dive into the theory aspects of it and have just as much fun.
I too hope that TPTB hurry things up a little bit as to most of the freaky explanations, because if they wait too long we could guess most of it and then it will be a big anti-climax like the end of TLE.
Have fun with the game Thrasher! I want to play with the island too.
Hey, Thrasher! I just pre-ordered the PS3 version of the Lost game. I love puzzle-games and puzzle-shows! LOL Does anyone know if you can play this game on-line or multi-player? (From what I read, it didn't seem so...since you're taking the role of a survivor trying to figure things out).
Wonderful theories and thoughts. I wonder where Richard fits in all of this?
Yeah Richard's kind of gone off the radar hasn't he.
I'd like to know what going on with him too.
I think it is a single player game Maven. From what I have seen you take the role of crash survivor from day one and see the events through that persons eyes. Maybe this is that character they tried to introduce Palo or however you spell it.
Like the Avi?
I want the Lost video game, but apparently it only goes up to series 2 events and places, which i have to say is a little dissappointing seeing as im sure season 3 could have been included. Then a second game for series 4,5 and 6? unless this would mean 3 LOST games lol
"As all of you have already been told you are bound by your honor and commitment."
BTW, when you think about it, how perfect is it for TPTB that the Red Sox actually won in 2004 and then later, so they could jerk our minds around like this?! The nerve of those Sox. It's a conspiracy!
Here is IGN's Synopsis of the game
Lost: Via Domus
(Via domus is Latin for "way home")
"
You play as Elliott, a photojournalist who is one of the survivor's of Oceanic 815. While many of the castaways gained something from crashing on the Island (Locke can walk, Jin has manly sperm, Sawyer doesn't have to wear shirts), Elliott suffered amnesia. As with the other survivors, Elliott has a dark past, one that has followed him to the island. The only trouble is that he can't remember why one of the other survivor's is hunting him. Along with discovering some of the secrets of the Island, gamers will also solve the mystery of Elliott's past."
Now, now Capcom it is a TV show in a "fictional" universe. LOL
I have become completely immersed in the world of Lost as well.
Because we don't have very comfortable furniture in our home theater room yet, we only really watch Lost on the 100 inch projection screen. Siting on an old futon for longer than two hours is brutal.
I like my idea of playing as Paulo, whatever, better! That way I know I will get double crossed and die!! LOL
They were dumb characters!!
I am driving my wife nuts by walking around the house talking like Desmond.
"no matter what I do Chawlie yur gonna die"
Thrasher, LOL!!
(I know what you mean...my hubby thinks I've LOST it sometimes, too!)
xxoo
Most of our better halves think we're all crazy! LOL
(Thrasher: We just put in a Bose Home Theater Surround Sound System and ordered theater type seating! We're never leaving our house! LOL)
Jo Banker asked about Richard. The bigger question I have is what about the 815ers that are with Richard especially Zack and Emma? Cindy's on her own in my book. :D
good discussions...the bracelet thing..it said N.K."I'll always be with you"R.G. I think it's R.G. anyway what does that mean? I'm always watching you,or monitoring you,or controlling you,or grounding you(whatever time your in) The thing about two Franks,Bens or whatever..if they are using the Tesla machine...it takes whatever that is in it its field force and makes more..in the film Prestige on you tube on Tesla..one hat became many! I wonder about Richard too is he stuck on the island too...he seems knowledgeable.. when Ben first saw him he had long hair with blonde streaks,,now it is short and jet black
Oh I forgot most important...the news cast I saw(which was on you tube before the show-different version from what was televised)regarding the find of the underwater wreckage..reported from LAX...dated May 2007..so the freighter probably went out before that.
Yes there sure is crash course on Physics...Nothing like an old fashioned snow-globe. Yes I think the writers are stretching science..I agree we'll have it all sewed up...
hey all. I did have some thoughts but they've kinda gone by the wayside with computer crashes and school drop off etc etc. But it's been a good read this morning.
I did mention The Magician's Nephew early on. I hadn't dwelled on it too much because talk about The Great Divorce seemed like a much better CS Lewis tie-in but I also don't want to throw away Narnia speculation for sentimental reasons (just like I don't want to throw away Bad Twin, TLE and FIND815). I think I may have to re-read though because I can't remember exactly how the Narnian apple-tree comes to grow in the Pevensie world to later be chopped down and the wood used to make a wardrobe that becomes a selective entry point to Narnia...
And since I have a thing for jewellery, the Magician's rings and Naomi/Elsa's bracelets are sticking out to me. But I think it's much mroe likely to be the more scientific Tesla reasons than fantastical Narnian reasons.
Nice call on the rings/bracelets Carol. You can fast forward to the end of The Magician's Nephew to get the answer to your apple tree question. I've recently picked up Lewis' SciFi trilogy and have them in my "to read" pile though it will almost certainly be the midseason break of S4 before I get to them. I hear the 2nd one in particular has some possible LOST relevance. Another Lewis reference I've seen bandied about is "Till We Have Faces" which is Lewis' retelling of the Cupid and Psyche myth. I had never heard of that book until a couple of years ago when a friend recommended it. I read it then, but don't remember enough of it to draw LOST parallels.
ange asked me to get a picture of a wormhole so here you go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole
This is a shortcut..I Iike physics shortcuts.if the island is a shortcut..where is the other side..also it says the bridge between the two can collapse unexpectedly..so what does it mean...I DK...
Per the time of the wreckage discovery:
If that plane crashed in 2004, and the underwater footage was from 2007 I don't see how it's possible that we would be seeing flesh on that pilot. Three years underwater would at best leave some tissue and skeletal remains, taking into account the motion of the sea, salt water, and fishy scavengers (and sheesh I hope no one ever searches my google history and sees all the searching I just did on dead and ocean). I guess if the cockpit were sealed and fish couldn't get in I could maybe buy it, but three years in the ocean at the bottom of a trench, man that pilot looked dang good if that's the case!
Gross I know, but makes me lean toward 2004 here.
Ange-I agree, definitely 2004.
xxoo
maven said...Hey, Thrasher! I just pre-ordered the PS3 version of the Lost game.
You might just be the neatest grandma ever Maven!
Now that we're talking about wormholes. Has anyone seen Jumper? I saw it last Friday and he has the ability to open wormhole on a whim. Kinda wonder if Walt has the same ability. Maybe Ben does too.
I had an idea about Charles Widmore today. He tells Desmond the story about Admiral MacCutcheon (sp?) and how much he admires him, he has that model ship in his office and he sponsors an around-the-world sailing race. I could see CW having an interest in The Black Rock that has nothing whatsoever to do with the Island or Desmond or 815, but merely an appreciation of things of the sea and its captains. This is not to rule out some nefarious purpose on CW's part, but the search for The Black Rock could have been mere raiding of a historic site as Ockham said in the game vs. CW being responsible for staging the 815 wreck. Maybe Abaddon knew Maxwell was looking for The Black Rock and planted the 815 Freckage where he knew someone not affiliated with his own organization would find it.
I've also pinpointed something that bugged me during Find 815. Frank tells Jack that he didn't know much about Naomi because she was Sr. Management and they didn't share lunch tables (Arzt callback). It always bothered me in Find 815 that Sam apparently did share lunch tables with Ockham and Talbot. That never rang true to me.
yup 2004...the pilot was a prop...ok a video on self-sustaining power generation using magnetics..funny though this was posted on you tube feb. 13, 2008 and the thing is from australia... looked around on you tube for worm hole videos no luck..lead me to stuff on pulse motors..went to the library congress and national archives, also wire press archives(standford)..nothing on Tesla..I did find that MRI technology cames from Tesla's designs here' the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efCelx7qe_M&feature=related
Thrasher,and Maven,You will be ready to watch Lost like bloody Rock Stars.You will be ready for anything TPTB send our way.(Even the Zombie season).Speaking of which,Don't be surprised if when the chopper lands,and they go to get Naomi,that "She's Not There"* Just the stretcher, and a blanket.
* The Zombies
Thrasher, I love the new avitar! :)
Mr. Mel's new favorite word is "brutha." He says it all the time. He's totally hooked on the show now, and he always finds an excuse to be in the room when it's on. The nice thing is, he watched most of the first three season's with me when I re-watched the DVDs, so he doesn't ask as many questions during pivotal scenes. ;)
I can't wait to get that Lost game - but I'll have to. No PS3 yet! Maven, I'm so jealous!
memphish said:
I had an idea about Charles Widmore today. He tells Desmond the story about Admiral MacCutcheon (sp?) and how much he admires him, he has that model ship in his office and he sponsors an around-the-world sailing race. I could see CW having an interest in The Black Rock that has nothing whatsoever to do with the Island or Desmond or 815, but merely an appreciation of things of the sea and its captains. This is not to rule out some nefarious purpose on CW's part, but the search for The Black Rock could have been mere raiding of a historic site as Ockham said in the game vs. CW being responsible for staging the 815 wreck. Maybe Abaddon knew Maxwell was looking for The Black Rock and planted the 815 Freckage where he knew someone not affiliated with his own organization would find it.
I agree that there seem to be several "groups" of freighties we're dealing with here:
1. Those who work for the Maxwell Group (Widmore,etc.)I would imagine that this would be most of the crew (minus any "moles" of course).
2. Those who work for whoever wants to know about the Island's properties, the Dharma Initiative, Native Inhabitants, Flight 815 survivors,etc. (The freighter 4).
3. Those who work for the Island/Ben/Jacob-the "mole(s)".
-and-
Perhaps, 4. Those who are looking for long lost loves-(Penny looking for Desmond).
These could be separate groups with different agendas, all being financed by the same source, the Maxwell Group.
What do you guys think?
xxoo
I pre-ordered the PC version. It is a one player,off-line game. Maven;it should be fun. It is supposed to be 7 episodes with flashbacks, and things we can enjoy by looking around the various Lost locations.It is supposed to take 10 -12 hrs to finish.More if you want to explore the Island.I think PS3 and XBox will be a better experience though.For those interested.Dark UFO has a Via Domos Section on his site with great game trailers, and interviews with the producers.
I went back to the video...it is a fake..the one on motors I posted above...the addresses don't exist and the business has no aussie stock excahnge listing..this thing was posted feb.13,2008 so..what do you think given our discussions over the last few days? Also but very,very strange...video posted on that site..It's titled "Do Not Watch" well guess what I did..it went on about time and your mind controls time and all this stuff..I mean it is specific in word usage to our recent discussions on this topic,but still general in approach..I'm not sure if I should post it but here's the link http://www.youtube.com/user/ArchangelSandalphon I would be interested to see what others thought...going to watch my electromagnetic producing picture machine(TV)..
that site was strange,,,very different...Geez...anyway why did someone go to post a fake video?
ok another tesla thing...says it can draw power from the sky and focus it in one spot...very tired now of physics....so here you go.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8ggBjShbIw
I am not sure if I saw it right, but it looks like Marvin Candle is playing the mediums doctor on Medium tonight.
Yup! That was Marvin Candle alright!
tallone said: the news cast I saw(which was on you tube before the show-different version from what was televised)regarding the find of the underwater wreckage..reported from LAX...dated May 2007..so the freighter probably went out before that.
Where did you see that? I don't remember seeing any footage that was dated. I know there was a fan-based video quite a while ago...is that the one you're talking about?
FYI: DarkUFO has Week 3 of the LFL up. My team is hopeless: 1459!
I just had a thought: Ben was on the island as a Dharma Work Man. His father obviously wasn't very successful in the real world. Now he's the leader of the Others/Hostiles and has a secret room with a lot of fancy suits, passports and quite a lot of different currencies. Apparently, he and Richard Alpert set up Mittelos Bioscience. Where is Ben getting all his money? He was a poor boy brought up on an island. How can he set up dummy companies, travel the world, etc.? Someone must be backing him or else he found some treasure in the Black Rock and invested wisely.
Well my man Sayid gave me my best score yet in LFL. But it's still not great. I'm ranked 1202.
My goodness- you can't afford to miss a second on this blog! I had a lot of catching up to do since yesterday.
I feel like a lot of these ideas will be connected, but I don't have the brain power to figure it all out. I don't remember where I've heard of a Mobius strip before, but it sounded so familiar. Anyway, here's what I thought was interesting from wiki on it:
The Möbius strip or Möbius band (pronounced /ˈmøbiʊs/) is a surface with only one side and only one boundary component. It has the mathematical property of being non-orientable.
A model can easily be created by taking a paper strip and giving it a half-twist, and then joining the ends of the strip together to form a single strip. In Euclidean space there are in fact two types of Möbius strips depending on the direction of the half-twist: clockwise and counterclockwise. The Möbius strip is therefore chiral, which is to say that it is "handed".
The Möbius strip has several curious properties.
A model of a Möbius strip can be constructed by joining the ends of a strip of paper with a single half-twist. A line drawn starting from the seam down the middle will meet back at the seam but at the "other side". If continued the line will meet the starting point and will be double the length of the original strip of paper. This single continuous curve demonstrates that the Möbius strip has only one boundary.
If the strip is cut along about a third of the way in from the edge, it creates two strips: One is a thinner Möbius strip - it is the center third of the original strip. The other is a long strip with two full twists in it - this is a neighborhood of the edge of the original strip.
Alternatively, cutting a Möbius strip along the above line, instead of getting two separate strips, it becomes one long strip with two full twists in it, which is not a Möbius strip. This happens because the original strip only has one edge which is twice as long as the original strip of paper. Cutting creates a second independent edge, half of which was on each side of the knife or scissors. Cutting this new, longer, strip down the middle creates two strips wound around each other.
There have been technical applications. A device called a Möbius resistor is an electronic circuit element which has the property of canceling its own inductive reactance. Nikola Tesla patented similar technology in the early 1900s: [9] "Coil for Electro Magnets" was intended for use with his system of global transmission of electricity without wires.
The fact that a Mobius strip is chiral rang a bell with me. I think it was in this group a while back that someone posted some theories that mentioned chirality and mirror imaging- that there were certain scenes or objects in scenes that were or had mirrored images. Of course J. Wood keeps talking about mirror images, there is TTLG reference, and the Bad Twin thoughts. I won't post a long thing about chirality, but here's the wiki link- chirality.
Then there's the Minkowski reference re: space time...I don't know I just wonder if time is looping around as if on a Mobius strip, and somehow that accounts for time difference and creating mirror images. Ugh- I can't figure it out, but there has to be something to all of this!
Oh well, sorry for the LONG post, but it's my only one today and I probably won't be on til late tomorrow :)!
I shall have to watch out for that episode of Medium. I did see last night that Michael was going to be in an episode of CSI (can't remember now if it was LV or NY... NY would be so fitting ;-) ). Of course, who knows when you guys got that episode
thanks for posting that scout, seems I'm not as familiar with Mobius strips as I thought. and interesting that "Through The Looking Glass" is mentioned on that chirality wiki page
Here's a transcript of the whispers that Hurley heard outside of the cabin:
Whispers
Alchemy?!!
xxoo
hey maven the airline news of the airline has a post date of 5/2007....here it if you want to see it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ7OLYd0UE0
This is a terrific site about alchemy-very rich symbolism!
Alchemy
I especially love the galleries of symbols...
xxoo
nice job ellen on the whispers...
scoutpost..i saw that on mobius strip too...did you post a picture for the other readers?
Does anyone know how to capture the minutes before
Sayid talks to Elsa in Berlin...I forget who but somone posted on the previous page of this blog a german word. was heard just before they sat down ....I translated it and it means "explanation"..also someone else said there are other noises
Saw the preview for Kate on this week's lost...can't wait!
saw this on you tube this morning....nice review of the crash and related stuff...I know everyone is very familiar with this..but it shows the power of the "force" as the plane crashes and juilette's house does the earthquake thing and desmond saves the day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ierynZLSLHk&NR=1
There is or was a lot of power on the island
There seems to be a lot of disagreement about what those whispers say. Too bad we didn't get a pop-up video on them.
Here's a different transcript from the people doing the whispers at The Fuselage. And earlier we saw a transcript that mentioned Nikki, but now she's gone. Where was Miles when you needed him?
Hey guys..I saw this last night and was too pooped to talk about it...but it does relate to the island so here goes 1.) everything living and the atmosphere resonates a low level resonance 2.)the low level resonance can be captured to change chemical patterns and thought 3.) a highly charged resonance can be transmitted through a surface to produce earthquake like affects(Juillette's house)4.) several resonantors place startegically can make a shield around the earth 5.) they can shoot power up into the sky 6) when they do they shoot up power it makes a channel for power to come back down IN HUGE AMOUNTS!7.) Russia got hold of the"woodpecker signal" and was able to disrupt all electrical generating equipment in NYC in 1977 8.) the resonator can be used to make an "auroa" in the sky 9.) it can modify the weather
ok here it is to view
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8ggBjShbIw
Does anyone see the damage or good here I sure do..all island issues in case you don't get the link
it's called "Tesla The Great Discoverer 4/5" on you tube
I just heard a neat theory on Jay and Jack. A caller suggested that the picture of Ben Miles has was taken in the Sydney airport on the day 815 left Sydney. He points to Ben being in the Further Instructions vision of Locke as evidence to support this theory. He ignores the fact that Desmond was also in that vision.
I suppose you could push this forward and speculate that Ben had something to do with keeping Frank from piloting 815 and getting Seth Norris into the pilot's seat.
Here's another idea about Frank missing the flight. What if he'd been boozing it up in Sydney with everyone's favorite drunk next to broody Future Jack, that's right, Christian Shephard. Maybe Frank saw in the local papers or TV that an unidentified man (insert photo here) had been found dead after a night they'd been carousing and went on another bender in Christian's honor. Since he was unidentified or only used his first name, like Chrsitian did with Sawyer, Frank wouldn't know that Jack who he's now hanging out with is his son.
Sorry Guys, the podcast has been nothing but a horror show this week and so I'm going to try to get it out sometime today or very early tomorrow.
mempish good info on Frank...
found a "real" Tesla experiment...it does some of the things i mentioned above...it's all about the physics..which is too much for this guy it's called HAARP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program
oh the whole link didn't get in there...it's on wikipedia
type in harrp experiment
oh the whole link didn't get in there...it's on wikipedia
type in harrp experiment
here you go the bad stuff on radio frequency...I say our Lost island could be a fictional frequency site
ok here's the read
Weapon
The objectives of the HAARP project became the subject of controversy in the mid-1990s, following claims that the antennas could be used as a weapon. A small group of American physicists aired complaints in scientific journals such as Physics and Society, charging that the HAARP could be seeking ways to destroy or disable enemy spacecraft[citation needed] or disrupt communications over large portions of the planet. The physicist critics of the HAARP have had little complaint about the project's current stage, but have expressed fears that it could in future be expanded into an experimental weapon.
These concerns were amplified by Bernard Eastlund, a physicist who developed some of the concepts behind the HAARP in the 1980s and proposed using high-frequency radio waves to beam large amounts of power into the ionosphere, energizing its electrons and ions in order to disable incoming missiles and knock out enemy satellite communications. The US military became interested in the idea as an alternative to the laser-based Strategic Defense Initiative. However, Eastlund's ideas were eventually dropped as SDI itself mutated into the more limited National Missile Defense of today. The contractors selected to build HAARP have denied that any of Eastlund's patents were used in the development of the project.
After the physicists raised early concerns, the controversy was stoked by local activism. In September 1995, a book entitled Angels Don't Play This HAARP: Advances in Tesla Technology by the former teacher Nick Begich, Jr., son of the late Congressman Nick Begich, claimed that the project in its present stage could be used for "geophysical warfare." The HAARP has subsequently become a target for those who have suggested that it could be used to test the ability "to deliver very large amount of energy, comparable to a nuclear bomb, anywhere on earth," changing weather patterns, blocking all global communications, disrupting human mental processes and mind control, causing earthquakes, and "x-raying" the earth. These claims are generally disregarded by scientists and those involved with the project as being completely baseless.[citation needed]
[edit]Russian Parliament
Well, I moved up 255 places to reach 2320 in the fantasy league. :) I'm just happy to be in the positives again!
Okay, off to catch up now.
Thanks, Memphish for the link to the fuselage-I wonder which transcript is more correct?
I did notice on the Alchemy website a big underlying theme in the graphics-Desmond's "bloody snowglobe" so to speak. Lots of pics of animals, islands, planets, people in glass globes or flasks...some other relevant symbols too.
xxoo
Interesting questions: when do you think Oceanic 815 was found in the Sunda Trench? 2004, 2007, somewhere in between? If we take the FIND815 game at face value, then Sam goes on the Christiane 1 shortly after 815 goes down. It's late 2004/Jan 2005 when the Christiane 1 'accidentally' finds the wreckage. If this is what we are to go by, then the Red Sox only won the 2004 series so far. What we don't know is when the F4 were assembled and sent out. Figure it took a few weeks for recruitment. Naomi mentioned the release of a Greatest Hits album for Driveshaft, which also probably took a few weeks. The obituary that sends Jack off the deep end is dated April 5, 2007 (leaving us with a sole 2004 win for the Sox).
then again, the time travel aspect could royally mess everything up!
Where is Ben getting all his money? Maybe Ben came into possession of a Sports Almanac from the future and he's been visiting Las Vegas...
This is from Ben Lundy's blog.
It seems, rather, that Ben leaves the Island quite often, enough to attract the attention of whatever organization took the photo of him from the previous episode.
Many of us have assumed that the FF are looking for Ben in revenge for The Purge, but what if it's not. What if Ben's done something in our world, but the people after him (probably the mob :D) just have to come to the Island to get him. I know that doesn't work 100% because Dan and Charlotte seem very interested and prepared for this wacky Island, but still with the primary objective being Ben, the Island may just be icing on the cake. Maybe icing that Abaddon only wants to use to amass passports, cash and suits as Ben has.
More from Ben Lundy:
I do my best to apply Occam's Razor to LOST's mysteries, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the solution may have nothing to do with time travel at all. Isn't it just as plausible that the payload's circuits were simply scrambled by its attempt to reach the Island? We have seen many mechanical and electronic devices malfunction while trying to approach or leave the Island-- both helicopters and Desmond's boat, for example. So it could be that the payload's tracking system went haywire and it spent a half hour spinning in circles before it penetrated the Island's barrier and locked on to Daniel's location.
Now that I can understand! Haywire mechanical malfunctions. I like it.
Memphish said: I just heard a neat theory on Jay and Jack. A caller suggested that the picture of Ben Miles has was taken in the Sydney airport on the day 815 left Sydney.
When I saw that photo of Ben, the first thing I thought was that it had been taken at an airport. What a crazy mindfreak it would be if it was Sydney, though he'd probably really need that "magic box" to get to back to the island before the crash.
Memphish: What I don't like about the payload malfunction theory is that any fluctuation in the rocket's speed, trajectory, etc. would have thrown it way off target. Likewise, if the island were farther away than they thought, the rocket would have fallen short, into the sea.
There's definitely some weird time differential going on, though at the moment I'm more on the Doc Brown "island is slightly in the future" side than the "island time moves at x times the speed of what's happening off-island."
Any chance part of the Swan's button pushing had to do with keeping the island at a fixed point in time? Say, keeping it always 108 minutes in the future?
My last quoting of Ben Lundy:
It seems possible that in the time between the present and the flash-forwards, the Island has actually been "lost," forcing Ben to flee the Island and continue this struggle elsewhere.
That's an interesting idea, and one that's been bugging me too in terms of Jack and Hurley's flash forwards. Charlie tells Hurley "they need you" and that Charlie is there to tell Hurley "he has to do something" though he never specifies what before Hurley disappears him by counting to 5. And of course bearded Jack thinks they shouldn't have left either and that they need to go back.
What I can't put my finger on is why they think they need to go back and to what end. To rescue others left behind? I don't think that's it. I find it really, really hard to believe Jack Shephard would lie to the world about the existence of people who wanted off that Island not existing. Maybe he does and I'll be slapped across the face, but it doesn't feel right. So are they going back to stay? Somehow that doesn't feel quite right either.
And then there's the contrast with Ben and Sayid this week. Neither of them specifically mentions the Island, the decision to leave it being a good/bad one or the desire to return to it. Head spinning deliciousness. Is it Thursday yet?
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