Lots of conversation has been produced by "One of Us" so here is your friendly neighborhood lag alleviation post so you don't have to wait so long for the comments to load. Don't forget to read up on the comments from the last post to catch up on the latest discussions.
Friday, April 13, 2007
ONE OF US - SEASON 3, EPISODE 16 (POST 2)
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197 comments:
First!
Reposted from the last thread.
Morning LoCos. Well I managed not to post last night, but I did sneak in and read a couple of times. Sorry no one took you up on your bet Scoutpost.
Dedjezter asked, How long did it take to walk to the Flame from the Others village?
I wondered that too. I'd guess the world may have started looking for Flight 815 once radio communications went out. That occurred 6 hours in and then they flew 1000 miles before crashing which would be about 2 more hours. Then I'd guess those news reports would have been a couple of hours after that because we saw our Losties leave the Flame, reach the fence, go over the fence and arrive in Othersville all in the same day, not that they get day and night right on this show, so I'd say Ben and Juliet got to the Flame in 2 hours max.
As for the mention that it should have been night in Miami. The time stamp on the papers from The Pearl indicate the plane crashed after 4 pm. I don't know if that makes a difference in Miami. Of course we also don't know what time zone the Swan computer was set to. And don't even ask me to try to figure out how the International Date Line figures in.
And I don't think that Jack and Ben are working together. The only way that could possibly happen given everything I know about Jack would be if he'd spent the last week in Room 23. It would be interesting, but I don't think so. Jack and Tom, yes. Jack and Ben, no.
Has Ange been posting on Lostpedia? See Theory #7.
Good morning Locos. Well Admin, we're waiting to hear... Ben or Juliet?
From the Lostpedia One of Us Theories: Ben said that he has lived his whole life on the Island, which suggests he was born here; if so, his mother may have died in the same way the other women did.
That's what happened to the Biblical Benjamin, son of Jacob. His mother Rachel died giving birth to him. Is Ben's project a way of dealing with his guilt that his birth caused his mother's death? If so, I'd guess the woman with the hamster is Ben's mother.
We don't know for sure that the babies die too, just the mothers. Juliet says there haven't been successful births, but she's a lying liar in the middle of a con.
Happy FRIDAY THE 13th!
Muhhhhaaaaawwawawaawahahaha.
I have a new Lost and Found for "One of Us".
Please check it out and post your own comments.
Good stuff Dennis. I tried to leave a comment, but was caught in a log in to Google loop. I don't know what's up with that.
7 is a good number!! Yay for 7!
What if the death-by-reproduction "curse" wasn't island-inflicted. What if it was Dharma's final strike against the "Hostiles"? That would explain the "Quarantine" signs and the serum Desmond and Kelvin were shooting up...though it may not have mattered for them if the engineered disease only affects women.
If the curse/disease was always in place, Ben would not have been born on the island. If the disease starts at conception, no one can bring a baby to term. The only reason Claire was able to have Aaron was because she was given Juliet's vaccine.
For those who doubt the truthfulness of Juliet re: Claire v. Ethan, there was no reason for her to lie. The Others would have wanted to test Juliet's vaccine on Claire, so it makes sense that Ethan was secretly administering it.
Erich, I agree that the death by reproduction thing is linked to Dharma. But I think it was probably THE thing that led the Hostiles to become hostile.
I don't understand how the same serum could be in the Swan if Desmond and Juliet arrived to the Island basically at the same time. The quarrantine was in place pre-Desmond as evidenced by Kelvin's Hazmat suit when he rescues Desmond.
ib4uc,
Thanks for asking. Ben or Juliet? I don't think I'd want either of them...Jack or Claire maybe?
In any case, we'll be having a little Jack! We won't be naming him Jack b/c we already have a nephew by that name but our baby looks like its going to be a boy.
I'm going to try to have pictures and even video of the sonogram online by the end of the weekend!
Congratulations Admin, Mrs. Admin and Baby Admin!
I want to go on record as saying I don't think you get to the Island by sub. I don't know how you do it, but I think the sub is just part of the curtain the wizard is hiding behind.
Memphish: I couldn't remember if the serum used on Claire in the medical hatch was the same as what Desmond was using in the Swan...
I was assuming the serum Des 'n' Kel had was the "real" serum, since The Swan was ostensibly the last "true" Dharma holdout station. Dharma would know the infertility problem was caused by a man-made disease, but The Others wouldn't. That would explain the Quarantine timeline you mentioned.
Congratulations Admin!
Congrats, admin!!! It's so exciting!!!! Don't blame you for not wanting a Ben or Juliet (creepy)
Congrats Admin Family!!
memphish said...
I want to go on record as saying I don't think you get to the Island by sub. I don't know how you do it, but I think the sub is just part of the curtain the wizard is hiding behind.
I was wondering that, too, memphish. I think the wizard has lots of illusions to reveal.
congrats to the admin family.
When Juliet says that the mothers die because the body takes the baby as a "foreign invader" Could this be tied to a reincarnation type thing. and you cant have both forms of life in the same place from different times?
dont know enough to make an intelligent argument to back it up.
dennis, great job on your own Lost & Found! I can't sign in with my Google account, though (not accepting my password).
Erich
Perhaps Dharma did invoke the "death by repercussion" curse...it could be that there was a purge, and in retaliation, Dharma unleashed a disease or curse on the hostiles that they didn't understand fully. Maybe Juliet did develop a serum, and hers is the same as what Dharma's vaccine was: something that would let the body carry a baby to term.
Memphish: Thanks for the screen caps. That helps. Hmmm... so they're the same...
I guess that means either the serum is unrelated to the infertility, or The Others found the Dharma stash... or they were just using empty Dharma bottles for their own serum...
Still a head scratcher.
Brianne, I like your idea. Maybe Dharma had developed the solution but they wouldn't give it to the Hostiles, so the Hostiles had to recruit Juliet to reproduce it. But like KFC or Coca-Cola, Dharma has withheld one of the secret ingredients and she just hasn't found it yet.
memphish said... I want to go on record as saying I don't think you get to the Island by sub. I don't know how you do it, but I think the sub is just part of the curtain the wizard is hiding behind.
I'm starting to think along these lines also. Partly because Juliet was the only one strapped down when they "landed". But, it could've been because she was still knocked out and they didn't want her falling out of the cot/bed. Either way, I think it's all part of the facade that Ben has laid in front of the Others.
ib4uc
Ethan also said that "the ride can be pretty intense."
Don't forget Ben said something to Locke about the sub maintaining the illusion that the Others could leave when they wanted.
I thought the serum Juliet used on Claire in One of Us was to counteract the "sickness" she was experiencing because they activated her chip? All part of the con, making Juliet be accepted into the Lostie group.
Prediction for next week completely non-spoiler based, Charlie will give Sun the serum injection kit from the last food drop. Desmond will raise the question of why he was taking those shots when he clearly wasn't pregnant for 3 years which will start to erode Juliet's story about the serum that she fed Jack and Kate. Question - will Jack remain Dr. Trusting further cementing his dumba@@ role and making me think he has some bonehead plan he's not sharing with everyone else or will his trust of Juliet start to fade as well? I'm picking A which will drive a larger leadership wedge into the group. I vote for Sawyer and Sayid as new group leaders.
Codysmom: That may be the case in this episode, but during the Claire kidnapping, she was injected with a serum identical (in outward appearance) to what they had in The Swan.
Were there any other times the injection was used? I seem to remember it being used on the beach once before...on Aaron, perhaps??? Did I just make that up?
Yes, just because the bottle is the same doesn't mean that the contents are....
I'm wondering about Kelvin's timeline. He was in Iraq in 1991, so he must have arrived at the Swan sometime later. According to Mikhail, the purge took place after he arrived in 1993 (2004 - 11 yrs). According to Hugh McIntyre, Dharma was closed down in 1987. So it is unclear whether Kelvin arrive pre- or post-purge.
If he arrived post-purge, he is definitely NOT Dharma. He may not be, strictly speaking, an Other, because he may have been in the Swan his entire time on the island. But he would have been placed in the Swan by the Others, so they would have to know he was there. But, like Juliet, he really just wants to go home.
In that case, whatever he and Des were "Using" was provided by the Others.
Erich, there was serum in the food drop. Charlie found the kit and injected it on himself then gave the kit to Claire for Aaron. Claire is going to inject him when Desmond tells her she's wasting her time. We're never sure whether Claire uses it or not after her conversation with Desmond.
Memphish: Thanks for the refresher.
Good memory, memphish! Desmond was mad that he was sucked into thinking he needed a hazmat suit to go outside, too. Wasn't it the serum that Kate and Claire went to the abandoned medical hatch for when Aaron was sick (and as it turned out, Aaron just got better on his own)?
Engineer27,
I agree about the contents of the bottles, but TPTB changing the contents on us is cheating like Locke said.
Whose side Kelvin is on is near the top of my mysteries list. I just checked to see what Mikhail was wearing when Ben and Juliet visit. It's indeed a Dharma jumpsuit. I was hoping he was dressed normally because then I could have made an argument that Kelvin was really Dharma. I guess he and Mikhail just like jumpsuits.
Codysmom said...
I thought the serum Juliet used on Claire in One of Us was to counteract the "sickness" she was experiencing because they activated her chip? All part of the con, making Juliet be accepted into the Lostie group.
I'm just throwing around ideas...the plausibility of those ideas might be questionable, but here's one anyways...
Maybe they really developed the serum and the chip. The chip could be something that monitors toxin levels, etc. but it's also equipped to cause "sickness". Juliet could have requested one kind of chip, and then the others doctored it up a bit.
I'm still trying to figure out what a drug to help pregnant women carry a child has to do with "deactivating" an implant that makes you sick. Juliet was injecting Claire with something to counter act the implant. She told Jack and Kate the whole pregnancy story to make them believe that was what wrong with Claire but it actually wasn't. There's always a grain of truth in the Others lies just like Patchy story.
We never get a close enough look at the label to see what's written on it. So I don't really think it's the same thing Desmond was taking as far as I know he wasn't implanted with anything or at least if he was it has been activated because that's what you need the drug Claire was given, to counter act the implant.
codysmom
You said that so much better and shorter than I did. :)
My son's biggest complaint about me is that I over expain things.
In other words I'm long winded.
Sayid's girl, what if the implant is designed to mimic pregnancy/the existence of a fetus in the womb. Then the same medicine might be able to de-activate it. What's more, maybe the medicine did nothing. Instead the person who activated it merely deactivated it once they observed that Juliet had given Claire the shot.
Memphish: I agree that The Others switching the contents of the bottles is "cheating" from a story perspective.
The biggest problem with wacky theories is that if they were actually true, it would take way too much TV time to explain them. I think we need to keep our theorizing away from "multiple layers of deception."
When the show is over, I think the big answers are going to be relatively simple and easy to summarize (unless, of course, Lost ends up like The X-Files).
I guess we'll know what side Kelvin was on if an other pulls out the "what does one snowman say to the other snowman?"
What if the implant and the injection were (basically) separate things?
That is: the implant held the virus, which was triggered to re-release it into Claire's body. The injection counteracted the virus, not the implant, if you know what I mean.
Otherwise, we're getting into a world of implants needing to coexist with the reproductive disease, which seems needlessly complicated.
Erich said...
The biggest problem with wacky theories is that if they were actually true, it would take way too much TV time to explain them. I think we need to keep our theorizing away from "multiple layers of deception."
It's a common bind that writers often get themselves into. It's so common that there is a name for the plot device that less talented writers turn to to get them out of the bind -- deux ex machina -- which, as I recall, was the name of an episode in Season 1 of Lost...
Engineer27: Still, given how much in advance the Lost writers seem to have planned the story, I'd be very surprised if they have to resort to an "it was all a dream" explanation for the big stuff.
Doesn't mean they don't occasionally trip over the small stuff, but they probably don't count on eagle-eyed HDTV watchers catching newspaper date typos and spreading them all over the internet.
memphish
I could go with maybe the injection does nothing just part of the con. Ben says she'll be symptomatic in 48 hours which could mean she just has symptoms of being sick and it will run it's course on it's own.
But I still don't think that this particular incident has anthing to do with trying to help pregnant women carry childern. I'm not saying they didn't run tests or other things on Claire reguarding this,just that this is separate from it.
A thought on the serum... maybe the serum did absolutely nothing. Claire got better because they deactivated the chip.
CONGRATULATIONS DAVID AND ALLI!!!!
How about the name Aaron for the little turnip-head? :)
Codysmom said... dennis, great job on your own Lost & Found! I can't sign in with my Google account, though (not accepting my password).
memphish said... Good stuff Dennis. I tried to leave a comment, but was caught in a log in to Google loop. I don't know what's up with that.
Well, it looks like you have to sign up for a Picassa Web Album account in order to leave comments. If you already have a google/gmail account, it no big deal, but that's kind of lame :(
memphish said... Erich, I agree that the death by reproduction thing is linked to Dharma. But I think it was probably THE thing that led the Hostiles to become hostile.
It would explain why Ben doesn't want any of his women to leave the island.
Erich said... Memphish: Thanks for the screen caps. That helps. Hmmm... so they're the same... I guess that means either the serum is unrelated to the infertility, or The Others found the Dharma stash... or they were just using empty Dharma bottles for their own serum...
This makes me think the the serum is a placebo, and Juliet didn't really need to give Claire a shot, but gave her the placebo as part of the con in order to gain everyones trust.
engineer27 said... I'm wondering about Kelvin's timeline. He was in Iraq in 1991, so he must have arrived at the Swan sometime later. According to Mikhail, the purge took place after he arrived in 1993 (2004 - 11 yrs). According to Hugh McIntyre, Dharma was closed down in 1987. So it is unclear whether Kelvin arrive pre- or post-purge. If he arrived post-purge, he is definitely NOT Dharma. He may not be, strictly speaking, an Other, because he may have been in the Swan his entire time on the island. But he would have been placed in the Swan by the Others, so they would have to know he was there. But, like Juliet, he really just wants to go home. In that case, whatever he and Des were "Using" was provided by the Others.
Now I'm thinking that Kelvin wasn't Dharma, but a recruited Other, like Juliet. He was living in the Swan, much like Mikhail was living in the Flame station - playing dress-up.
When Desmond crashed on the island, Ben sent Kelvin to fetch Desmond, much like Ethan and Goodwind were dispatched to our losties. The swan station was Kelvin's con on Desmond. But Kelvin still wanted to leave the island, like Juliet, which is why he never mentioned the sail boat to Ben.
This means that the Others knew about Desmond, the button, the failsafe key, everything.
hmmmm.
I like it Dennis. But what about the map?
Interesting, dennis, that Ben will let men leave the island, but not women.
Wonder if the "sickness" Danielle saw in her crew (and husband) was a result of the Other's implanting chips in them? That would make sense that Ben could say, "See? I didn't kill them off; one of their own did it!" Danielle is just too good at hiding for them to get hold of her.
dennis said...
Now I'm thinking that Kelvin wasn't Dharma, but a recruited Other, like Juliet. He was living in the Swan, much like Mikhail was living in the Flame station - playing dress-up.
When Desmond crashed on the island, Ben sent Kelvin to fetch Desmond, much like Ethan and Goodwind were dispatched to our losties. The swan station was Kelvin's con on Desmond. But Kelvin still wanted to leave the island, like Juliet, which is why he never mentioned the sail boat to Ben.
This means that the Others knew about Desmond, the button, the failsafe key, everything.
Good stuff, dennis!
memphish said...
I like it Dennis. But what about the map?
Maybe the map was Kelvin and Radzinsky's way of letting people know "the path" to figuring out who the others are...all of the others keep saying that "if I tell you, he'll kill me." Maybe by leaving the map in the hatch, so you can only see it if the blast doors are down and the blacklight is on was their way of helping the un-others without directly divulging any info about the others/jacob. This could be because everyone of the others seems to fear and respect Jacob.
I don't think Kelvin was an Other. It would just make too many people Others and not really leave any room for Dharma on the island. There needs to be at least one character to bridge the gap between Dharma and the others (Kelvin), even if he is dead. And it would be completely disappointing if the map turned out to be another con...
I've been wondering about the sub(s). I've looked at some screen shots and can't really tell because the one Locke supposedly blew up is in the dark but, to me the one Juliet arrived on was much bigger than the one Locke blew up. Do you guys think there may be more than one sub.
It seem like there would have to be another sub. Are you going to tell me that they have all those people on that island, and if something happens to their only sub....Oooops! I guess were stuck here forever?
Erich said... I don't think Kelvin was an Other. It would just make too many people Others and not really leave any room for Dharma on the island. There needs to be at least one character to bridge the gap between Dharma and the others (Kelvin), even if he is dead. And it would be completely disappointing if the map turned out to be another con...
I think that person is going to be Rousseau.
dennis said...I think that person is going to be Rousseau.
Nice twist, dennis!!
I'm in twist mode after watching Survivor last night!
dennis,
Thanks for fleshing that out for me. What you say is exactly what I was getting at.
However, it all depends on Kelvin arriving post-purge. If he arrived pre-purge, he could still be Dharma. However, the time between when Kelvin could have arrived (post-Gulf War I) and when Mikhail says he arrived (pre-purge) is short, only about a year.
Erich said...
There needs to be at least one character to bridge the gap between Dharma and the others (Kelvin), even if he is dead.
Radzinski could still fill that role. And he started the map, possibly for his own, Dharma-related, purposes. That would make some stuff on the map useful, but other stuff suspect (the part that Kelvin did).
Anything's possible. I'm just afraid we're in "Everybody's an Other!" mode after this past episode...
Not unlike the "Everything's Smokey!" craze of ought-six...
Didn't see this posted anywhere but Ask Kristen new posting yesterday. It's kinda spoilerish so be forewarned...
Thanks Dennis
I was thinking that I was the only one thinking there was more than one sub.
We know Juliet was recruited for her medical expertise. I was just wondering who else was recruited and what their specialties were.
Seems they needed more than a fertiliy doctor.
Oh sorry I didn't say this sooner. Congratulations on the baby boy Mr. & Mrs. Admin.
First off: Congrats to the new baby boy, Mr. and Mrs. Admin! He will carry on the "Admin" name! LOL
Great thoughts re the serum/injections/vaccine. The stuff that Juliet gave Claire was all part of the long con. Just like the Hazmat suit was a con for Desmond. I don't think that the injection had anything to do with Claire being pregnant. It was probably a placebo...the implant that was activated most likely ran it's course on it's own.
Dennis: Really like your rundown on why Kelvin might be an Other recruit. He does have a similar military background to Mikhail, doesn't he? And the timeline would fit in. We know Juliet was recruited for the pregnancy problems and Mikhail was recruited because he was a communication expert. What would Kelvin have been recruited for?
Memphish: I'm with you. I think the sub is all a ruse...part of the illusion the Wizard is creating.
Morning all!
memphish- I hope you know I was kidding about that bet...I'm glad you showed the self restraint last night and got some rest.
Admin and family- Congrats! A boy! Boys are great fun! How about...Desmond...that's a nice name. hehe
I don't know if I'm ready to commit yet to Kelvin being an Other, but I'm not very good at predicting things on this show, so maybe you all are right! It just seems like a stretch to me.
Re: the implant chip in Claire- I guess we really don't know what the implant did to make her sick. If you think about it, it could have done a lot of things, which makes it hard to know what if anything the serum did for her, and how much Juliet was lying. My only thought on Juliet's lie was that Mikhail also lied to Kate and Sayid, but TPTB said that there was some truth in what he told i.e. about Dharma and the Purge. So my thinking is that some of what Juliet said about the pregnancies is true, TPTB's way of conveying info to the viewers. But then again- maybe not!
sayid's girl- I can relate to you about being longwinded- can you all tell?!
Don't know what my opinion is about the sub- I'm finding myself riding the fence on a lot of things...I'm so confused (but loving it)!
Scoutpost: 'm finding myself riding the fence on a lot of things...I'm so confused (but loving it)!
I'm with you. Just when I think I've got something figured out, I read some great counter-theory here and get confused all over! LOL
Hey Maven, Did you see there was an Easter Egg especially for you?
From Ben's book shelf:
Stitches in Time by Barbara Michaels, about magical quilts and the good and bad powers they possess.
Thanks memphish
I'll go take a look.
Dennis,
Good stuff man I agree with almost everything.
Oh and about Survivor...
It is a shame that Michelle went home. She was the last good thing to look at on this seasons survivor and now she is gone. I guess I will have to watch with my eyes closed now. No more cute girl... lol
ABC does it again....
I though "Day Break" got the shaft, but they just pulled "In Case of Emergency" and it only had ONE episode remaining.
If it wasn't so :( it would be :)
The good news for us is they are going to repeat "One of Us" at 9:00pm on Wednesday!
Yea for us!
I'm still convinced that ABC is that office full of monkeys like in the commerical.
On to more interesting things--Jack and what is up with him.
I think Jack is definitely in on someone's plan and that is why is so trusting and protective of Juliet in OOU. The question is whose plan--Ben's, Locke's, Tom's, another Other's, Danielle's, some combination of people?
I now think the reason Jack says so quickly "even Juliet?" at the end of Left Behind and also why he's so quick to start them heading back to the beach is that he knows Ben's plan is to leave Juliet behind and get her to the beach. How does he know it? I'd like to think Locke or Tom told him.
The only person I can rule out at this point is Juliet herself because why would they have had that little trust conversation at the end of OOU if they were in on it together? I think it might be Locke because of Jack's "they're good people" speech. Locke told Kate they didn't forgive her; Locke did not judge her himself.
Good afternoon everyone! Congratulations Admin and Wife on the boy-child!
memphish said...Has Ange been posting on Lostpedia? See Theory #7.
'Twas not I that posted that, but glad to see that the enthusiasm is shared!
Memphish, codysmom and ib4uc mentioned… not believing that the sub is the true way to get to the island.
I have to say I agree with this completely. Until I see that thing in motion I am going to assume it is for show.
RE: The drugging for the trip... brianne said…Ethan also said that "the ride can be pretty intense."
How would he know this if the standard protocol is to be knocked out? Who gets to stay awake, and who decides this? All of the guys on the sub were just kinda hanging around and looked none too worse for the trip, I am inclined to think Juliet was the only one knocked out.
Okay, I am off to finish packing. I will catch you all on the flip side.
If the vaccine Dharma had, and the vaccine the others had is different, do the others know about the first nine day vaccine?
Even though I'm not a big Jack fan, I agree with you memphish. It would be hard to think that Jacke is being so easily duped. I think he either knows something like you said, or he has his own master plan and is going to carry it out. This show could actually become a showdown to see who can scheme the best plan and stay ahead of everyone else: Ben vs. Locke vs. Jack vs. Juliet. I think they are all smart and all have their own plans they are trying to execute. The problem is I think 2 of them want to stay on the island and 2 of them want to leave.
I said: The only person I can rule out at this point is Juliet herself because why would they have had that little trust conversation at the end of OOU if they were in on it together?
Upon further review, I do think Juliet could be the one who told him after all. There would still be the question of why should he trust her even if they're in it together. Is a week on the Island up yet? I want to see what happens then.
maven said...
What would Kelvin have been recruited for?
Ex-CIA... maybe, a Master Manipulator?
Hey all, first time poster, long time lurker.
I don't think Kelvin can be an Other, because I recall at one point TPTB said that the Others had no knowledge of the Swan. Also, they seem to be just as confused at what the Purpling was as the Losties are. My vote is that Kelvin was indeed DHARMA. I also think Mikhail was DHARMA, but got recruited by the Others at some point.
As for the Juliet con, I think there are actually TWO cons going on...the one between Ben and Juliet with the Losties, and another between the Others and Jack and Ben/Juliet. I remember TPTB saying that there were at least two factions of the Others. My guess is that the two factions were internal to the Others -- which is why Tom signaled to Jack that the game room in the Barracks was bugged. I think Jack and Tom (and Tom's faction) has a con/plan going against Ben's faction -- they probably want to go home too, and Ben won't let them either.
Welcome Drwebster!
Good post. I can't decide about Kelvin. The stuff TPTB have said about the Swan confuses me. I'd like to think Kelvin is really Dharma, but I think Dennis' idea that it's a con is a good one. And of course, Kelvin would disappear from the Swan for long stretches which could easily have been R & R time with his cronies the Others. I can't figure out Ben and the key and the button stuff though if Kelvin is an Other.
I agree that there are at least 2 levels of cons going on with Juliet. I wonder if Jack will take any of the other Losties into his confidence. He didn't with his and Sayid's plan in LTDA and we all saw how that worked out. Will Jack learn?
Jason, according to Ben he found out he had a tumor 2 days before 815 crashed. OOU confirmed that he found out about the tumor before the crash as well. It's interesting that he was symptomatic if it turns out the tumor was cancer. We don't know if it was or not. Jack said after removing it they should get a path report assuming there's an ability there to do that.
I say it's interesting because my father-in-law has cancer that they found when he was having similar back pain. The type of cancer he has multiple myeloma often isn't detected until it's too late because it's relatively asymptomatic. It's the kind of cancer Carl Sagan died of.
The other thing about most cancers is surgery isn't the only thing you do to treat them. Tumors can be removed, but doctors usually do radiation or chemo or both as well. I wonder why that hasn't been mentioned in Ben's case.
about Kelvin
I think he was an other who became disenchanted and wanted out. He suckered Desmond into pushing the button so he could leave.He hid the fact that Desmond had a boat so he would have a way to leave.
I don't buy the whole submarine bit either
congrats Mr and Mrs. Administrator.
Karl went from being the X-ray tech 2 days before the crash to being locked up on Falcatraz believing that Ben will kill him if he returns to their people. Anyone have any guesses about what he did?
Memphish said: From Ben's book shelf:
Stitches in Time by Barbara Michaels, about magical quilts and the good and bad powers they possess.
Yes, I saw that! LOL Also on The Office last night, Dwight suggested a "depression quilt" for their video and Michael said they couldn't sew it fast enough! LOL
drwebster (welcome!) said: I think Jack and Tom (and Tom's faction) has a con/plan going against Ben's faction -- they probably want to go home too, and Ben won't let them either.
I like that the two factions of Udders are those who are committed and those who aren't and want to go home!
BTW: The new EW magazine I got today has an "exclusive" story re Lost. A little spoilery. Dennis, can you find the link? Thanks
Nevermind! I found the link to the EW Jeff Jensen "exclusive".
The 1st half of the Doc Jensen is not spoilery. I didn't read the paragraphs about upcoming episodes, but enjoyed the calling of "shennanigans" with respect to Nikki and Paolo. They called shennanigans in The Office last night too didn't they Maven?
memphish said... Karl went from being the X-ray tech 2 days before the crash to being locked up on Falcatraz believing that Ben will kill him if he returns to their people. Anyone have any guesses about what he did?
What... or who? My guess is Alex.
FYSB, You made me LOL. I read somewhere, here maybe that since pregnancy = death on the Island, that was the reason Ben wanted to keep Karl from Alex. But death for sex is not eye for an eye, but adultery in the OT was punished by death think. Why's Alex not under the punishment then?
I wonder if she enjoys a bit of prestige or immunity because of her relationship to Ben? But that's an interesting thought that Ben would want to keep her from any possibility of pregnancy. Other than her and Ben, do we know of anyone else who has actually been born on the island?
Hi All,
Congrats to the Admin Family!!! Sure can't wait till we get to see little Turniphead. :o)
Great comments today everyone!
Re: Kelvin, wasn't he gone for periods of time after Dez got there, because he was busily trying to fix Dez's boat? I get the feeling that Kelvin is strictly Dharma (McIntyre could have beeing lying about the DI's demise time--wouldn't come as a surprise). It just seems like the kind of secret something job that a hardcore ex-CIA guy might sign up for. Although then when he found out it was just a button pushing desk job, he got all that attitude, understandibly. Or, I'm wrong. :o)
Wow, interesting thoughts on why Ben didn't want Alex and Karl together. Knowing what we know now, it was a lot more than just keeping him away from Daddy's little girl!
Congratulations,Administrator and baby mama.Looking forward to updates.God bless your little family.
You know, someone mentioned in the other thread, maybe Karl and Alex are twins and no one but Ben knows it. Also, where did he come from? Is he 16? Was he born on the island? Or, was he recruited for his super-excellent x-ray skills at such a young age ;)?
Just a comment on Karl's x-ray stuff, didn't Juliet just say that he had developed some x-rays? Now, I don't know the medical details, but if all Karl did was the development of the x-ray, rather than operating the device or whatever, it might not have required as detailed an education. And with time on the island, it wouldn't be inconceivable to train people to do specific tasks that are necessary for the Others to survive.
Also, I'm just now wrapping my brain around the thought "If Ben is truly the villain of Lost, and if Lost doesn't reject all forms of conventional story-writing, Ben will die." That makes me sad. However, Lost has proven plenty of times that it's willing to go against the grain.
Would anyone else be upset if Ben died, or do you all want him dead?
just stopping by to place a marker...there!
going to catch up, see ya all in the morning!
Congrats to the Penuel household! It's a boy...mazel tov!
darkaardvark said: Would anyone else be upset if Ben died, or do you all want him dead?
I don't want him dead until I get all the answers! LOL
Dark, I like Ben, he is a multidimensional character that gives a lot of depth to the story, which it very much needed to have (the depth) after the plotline left The Beach. He makes a great Other and M.E.'s acting skills are awesome. I would be disappointed also, if he left.
DAA, I don't want Ben to die either. He is my favorite bad guy of all time. I want more of him messing with everyone's mind. Give us the Bug-Eyed Bastard! (quoting Sawyer.)
Hey all, I'm kinda short of time this weekend. So just going to post my thoughts and hopefully will have time to come back later and properly see what is going on.
1) Richard seems to be running the US side of things. He didn't go to the Island with Juliet and was apparently still out there the day of the crash. But now he is on the island. Does that indicated that the Others have concluded the bulk of their business with the outside world? Or is he there to witness something big? Such an important Other wouldn't want to be left out of the big party. He must have come to the island some time between the pilot of season one and the conclusion of season two. That means that the Others could well have brought in virtually anyone from the outside world, including people from the Losties past.
2) Why wouldn't they even let Juliets sister onto their US base? Was it just to avoid her knowing anything? If so why not make her leave after reaching the main building. Is it perhaps that they in their racist way didn't want someone not on Jacobs list to go onto Other soil, like they consider that base to be an embassy and therefore under Others law.
3) Jacks a bit heavy handed in protecting Juliet. Is he really just giving her 100% trust? Or is he just faking it and doing it in his usual headstrong way he approaches everything else.
4) Juliet can't have been convinced just by the absense of cancer, unless there are a lot more Others. But she must have witnessed something of the islands healing powers. She must also believe that this Jacob has healing powers and I doubt Juliet would take it on faith. Jacob is starting to seem more and more like some kind of ancient god. Probably a stone face that shoots flames and speaks with a booming voice. Lol.
5) I suspect that to get to the island without disruption the sub has to dive really deep and that people who's bodies aren't used to the high pressure may suffer an amount of discomfort. Perhaps part of the apparent super strength of some others (Ethan) is just an indicator of some kind of high pressure strength training. Or at least the strength is why they can sit around playing cards while at such pressures. The other option is that they performed some kind of surgeory on Juliet while she was in the sub. It could also just be a con. I should point out I am just speculating there, I need to research it a little.
6)Finally, well I guess sometimes a spade is just a spade. Still, I'm not convinced Juliet is 100% on board with her role as a plant. Plus I would have to admit to being a little disapointed that someone that appears to be obviously a plant actually turned out to be a plant. I think we all called the Claire thing would be her supposed way in to the group (though I don't think anyone thought it was orchestrated via implant, that suggests they had it planned a long time back).
But still, I would think her blurting knowledge about Sayid and Sawyer would count against her, unless she is counting on them being so afraid of letting that stuff out. But then how bad could it be really? Everyone already knows Sayid tortured people and Kate knows Sawyer killed someone from their drinking game and that is probably the only persons opinion he'd really care about.
Of course the other point of that is how did Juliet know about Sawyers murder. I know people will be speculating that it was smokeys brain scan. But it may just be as simple as that there was a witness and should Sawyer leave the island he'll be going straight to jail along with Kate.
Congrats David and family!!!! What an awesome thing!!! My wife and I are also trying!!
If we are offering name suggestions may I suggest the following Lostie names...
Desmond!
Locke!
Freckles!
Claire!
Rachel!!! or RACHEL!!!
Or you could just go with Chad!!! LOL
All joking aside fantastic news congrats!!
I haven't finished reading all the comments yet, so if this has already been mentioned, I apologize.
Dennis said:When Desmond crashed on the island, Ben sent Kelvin to fetch Desmond, much like Ethan and Goodwind were dispatched to our losties. The swan station was Kelvin's con on Desmond. But Kelvin still wanted to leave the island, like Juliet, which is why he never mentioned the sail boat to Ben.
Bu if that was true, the Others would have know about Desmond's boat and they seemd to be surprised when Sayid, Sun and Jin had the boat.
Dark
Ya just can't kill off Ben. Like Memphish said, he is probably one of the best bad guys ever.I can't remember a bad guy i loved hating as much as i do this one. Now, would i like to see him suffer the way he has made others suffer? You betcha!!
fenris, what makes you think Richard is on the island now?
Oh, fenris, nevermind. I guess you're talking about when Richard went and got TMFT when Ben asked him to.
I know this is crazy, but my feeling is that Richard has been able to get on and off the island all along. I've even had the weird feeling that when Ben told him to go get TMFT, he actually did go to Tallahasse and get him. Seems crazy when you think then why doesn't Ben just go to the "mainland" and get proper medical care? I think there's a reason he can't leave the island, but we don't know what it is, yet.
Fenris said...
Still, I'm not convinced Juliet is 100% on board with her role as a plant. Plus I would have to admit to being a little disapointed that someone that appears to be obviously a plant actually turned out to be a plant.
I agree. I feel like Juliet is stuck in the middle. She sympathizes with the losties b/c, as Jack said, she does want to get off the island as much as they do. On the other hand, she is forced be loyal to Ben b/c he is her best chance of getting off the island and seeing Rachel again. Although she might want to be free from the Others, she knows that, if she defects now, all hope is lost. She's being forced to play along.
I might also add that she may also have some authentic sympathy towards some "benevolent" mission of the Others that we still know nothing about. She may know something about some valuable work that they are undertaking that she doesn't want to betray.
On a personal note...I posted the video of our Week 20 Sonogram if anyone wants to check it out. thepenuels.com
memphish said...
Karl went from being the X-ray tech 2 days before the crash to being locked up on Falcatraz believing that Ben will kill him if he returns to their people. Anyone have any guesses about what he did?
Maybe he and Alex were caugth having sex? And Ben is afraid of his daughter getting pregnant?
Happy Weekend All!
Cute baby pics, Admin! I'm carrying about a pic of the 3 month ultrasound of my grandbaby (will know sex next month)! How desperate is that? LOL
Lostit: Agreed that Ben is probably afraid of Alex getting pregnant with Karl. Where did Karl come from? There was speculation that he and Alex could be twins and that would be another reason Ben is so adament about Alex staying away from Karl.
Admin and others: I agree that Juliet may be a conflicted plant. She probably knows her best way off the island is with Ben. She may have some real sympathies with Jack and the Losties since they want to get off the island as much as she does (except Locke). We might see some interesting conflict within Juliet in the episodes to come. And, as usual, she probably does know something huge about the island and/or Ben (she said as much to Sayid).
Mr.& Mrs. Administrator
Awesome baby pictures. Truly one of God's miracles.
God bless you both
Just reading a little bit into the second thread, and I see that Kelvin has come to be a large part of the discussion at-large.
I went to Lostpedia, and was surprised to notice for the first time that Kelvin gets no mention in the pre-crash timeline until Desmond arrives at the Island. This is unusual. I know he's not one of the main players, but Sam Toomey and Leonard get mentions. Someone should address this.
Credit for this goes to the Totally Amazing LOST Blog of Awesomeness -- Peter Thompson from TLE was miraculously healed of cancer as well as Rose and possibly Rachel. I'd forgotten that.
Admin;(David & Alli),
Thanks for sharing that awesome sonogram.Ain't life grand? I liked the part where your son was waving to you guys.
TheBookPolice said...
I went to Lostpedia, and was surprised to notice for the first time that Kelvin gets no mention in the pre-crash timeline until Desmond arrives at the Island.
Yes, he should be mentioned in 1991 under the entry saying "Sayid captured in Persian Gulf War circa 1991" and has a link to "One of Them."
We are not sure exactly when he arrived on the island, relative to when the purge took place.
Wow Admin! Thanks for sharing that with us. I've had 3 of my own kids, and yet it still gives me chill bumps to see that. It is an awesome miracle of God. I always love seeing the footprints and the heartbeats! Congrats again. I know you guys are soooo excited!
memphish said...
Credit for this goes to the Totally Amazing LOST Blog of Awesomeness -- Peter Thompson from TLE was miraculously healed of cancer as well as Rose and possibly Rachel. I'd forgotten that.
You know I had totally forgotten about Peter Thompson, too. That's pretty big. And IF the Others had anything to do with Rachel's healing (could they have caused her cancer to go into remission way back in Miami-we don't know how long Ethan had been watching her and Juliet) then that would really make you wonder what the heck is going on with Ben that he was not healed.
fenris said...
4) Juliet can't have been convinced just by the absense of cancer, unless there are a lot more Others. But she must have witnessed something of the islands healing powers. She must also believe that this Jacob has healing powers and I doubt Juliet would take it on faith. Jacob is starting to seem more and more like some kind of ancient god.
I've been wondering about this too. When Ben told Juliet that Rachel's cancer had come back and he told her that Jacob would take care of it himself- Juliet completely changed. She went from wanting to leave no matter what, to completely trusting what Ben said about Jacob. And, at that time she had only been on the island 3 or 6 months. Which would mean that she would have had to seen or experienced some amazing things to put so much trust in Jacob at that point. It really has a cult like feel.
6)Finally, well I guess sometimes a spade is just a spade. Still, I'm not convinced Juliet is 100% on board with her role as a plant.
I agree. I think it was J. Wood who compared Juliet to the character Carrie- a meek and mild person pushed to the limit. I think Juliet has been pushed to the point where she has had enough with the island. I think she has her own plan and will play both sides of the coin (Ben and Jack) to get out of there. Before the Losties got there she really had no leverage with Ben, now the Losties are there and she has a bargaining chip/wild card to play with and I think she will use that to finally get off the island. And I think she will stop at nothing to use whomever in whatever way to get what she wants.
Ok last thing- memphish said...
I don't want Ben to die either. He is my favorite bad guy of all time. I want more of him messing with everyone's mind.
I feel the same way. I actually like Ben and Juliet because they are such good bad guys. Keep the deceptions and mind games coming!
Woah, nice catch. Pete Thompson was cured of cancer and Mittlewerk claimed responsibility for it. Although that doesn't mean he actually did it personally but certainly something was happening.
For the record I don't want Ben to die. Creepy as he is, I love his use of sarcasm. It actually reminds me a little of a Monty Python sketch, where they had a parody of the craig brothers (London mobsters) where one was a complete psycho, but the other one was even worse because he used...sarcasm!
Also I realised above I said about Richard comming to the island and on second viewing I actually paid attention to Ben telling him he'll want to come there. But still, why is he making a special trip to the island just because new visitors are there. Hmmm.
Sorry still not got a lot of time so not read everything.
P.S. Ange says Hi :)
congrats david!! to you and the rest of the family.
nothing like a child.
talk to everyone later!
Morning all:
Fenris: Hope you're showing Ange a great time in your part of the world!
Say hi for me!
Re: Peter Thompson's miraculous cancer cure. That was a good catch and a way to tie in TLE to Lost. What if Mittelwerk is Jacob! Hahaha
Maybe TWM's been at DHARMA Line Delivery School to hone his chops. ;)
Scoutpost said: I've been wondering about this too. When Ben told Juliet that Rachel's cancer had come back and he told her that Jacob would take care of it himself- Juliet completely changed. She went from wanting to leave no matter what, to completely trusting what Ben said about Jacob. And, at that time she had only been on the island 3 or 6 months. Which would mean that she would have had to seen or experienced some amazing things to put so much trust in Jacob at that point. It really has a cult like feel.
I'm starting to lean towards teh idea that Jacob is a fictional character made up by Ben to use as a psychological tool. I think maybe Juliet's reaction to the mention of Jacob was a product of the "conditioning" she may have received in room 23.
Lostit: If Jacob is fictional, that would go with the theory that Ben is the Wizard of Oz and he is the man behind the curtain. That is a possibility. We have seen how manipulative he is and how skillful he is at lying. However, that being said, it would seem to me that there must be a "real" Jacob. Ben must have had to produce Jacob at some point to the Others in order to convince them to stay and make a full committment. If this is a cult, it must be the Jacob cult. Jacob could be exploiting the island's powers. And maybe that's why Ben wants Locke's connection and knowledge of the island...he wants to overthrow Jacob.
I've been thinking about the Jacob and is he real thing too. Lostit, I like what you said about Juliet's reaction being conditioned by Room 23. I think you're headed into the right direction there.
Maven, your point triggers my question. Why would Ben create a Jacob if there isn't a Jacob? One possibility would be that Ben didn't have the chops to rule without a figurehead to hide behind. For example, say Ben is telling Tom or other bigger and older people what to do and finally one of them says, "What makes you the boss?" and he creates Jacob as that authority. Maybe Jacob goes back to the four-toed statue but is just made up and only the leader and his descendants know this?
I'm going to read The Wizard of Oz this week and see if it tells me why the Wizard created the fiction of the Wizard. If it does, I'll report back.
It also makes me think of the Dread Pirate Roberts in Princess Bride, not to mention Keyser Soze.
memphish - Here are some leads, for you or for others who don't want to take the time to read the book. Remember, there's always a lot more that happens in the book than does in the movie.
TBP, Thanks. That's why I'm about to start the book. Interestingly Baum says in the Introduction that it excludes morality and is written solely for wonderment and joy. Maybe I should watch LOST with more of that in mind. :)
i think showing ethan working on her house pipes when 815 crashed and goodwin working on her other pipies was to show us that she is not as sympathetic to the 815'ers as a lot of you think. After all goodwin seemed to be her man on the inside. I think bens plan goes all the way back before 815 crashed. He sent goodwin and ethan to their eventual deaths, perhaps to thin out the competition for second bananna. Then mikhail and klugh dies for the cause. Its curious that all the high ranking people are dropping like flys. I know its a long shot but i almost think jacob might be a computer that does a kind of mathamatical calculation of goddness or badness///
2costa, that sounds a bit trekkie, but still very plausible.
I just read an article in Scientific American (I read that magazine all the time but understand only a fraction of it) about plasmonics. It says that it could be possible to use plasmonic resonance to kill cancerous tissue (experiments have already been done on mice that eliminated cancer within 10 days). It also says taht plasmonic materials could alter the electromangnetic field around an object to such an extent that it would become invisible.
Things that make you go "hmmmmm".
Don't ask me what plasmonic materials are - I only understood a fraction of that part of the article - something to do with photons.
Good thoughts 2costa. I'd like to expand on your theory and guess that perhaps Ben chose to send Goodwin and Ethan on potentially dangerous quests, in the hopes that he might be able to get rid of Juliet's two biggest fans and protecters in Otherton. ((I still can't get over the fact that he sent a SURGEON on a risky recon mission!)) Ethan possibly warmed up to her after she got there (he keeps looking at her with googly eyes in the FBs), and we all know how Goodwin felt about her now. If Ben needs to manipulate her, he can't really afford to have anyone around who would sympathize with her (and be susceptible to her feminine mystique) and possibly take her side.
But, I'm sure that I am reading way more into it than TPTB intend. :o)
We still don't know what Ben and Jules' "history" was that Tom mentioned, do we?
Hmmm, plasmonics, I like that Lostit!
Here's a link to the article about plasmonics
Thanks Lostit! I was wondering if there could be an application for semiconductors, and sure enough, the article mentions it and lots more.
ya capcom thats what i meant. sending a surgeon on a dangerous mission when he already knew he had cancer is curious indeed. Julliette really whitewashed what ethan did too. He hung charlie from a tree during his improv. If he was so benevolent why didnt he just come clean and offer his help. Brilliant yet unforgiving might be a way to describe a computer, im not married to this theory. I am also leaning towards the idea that the others are a synthesis of hostiles and dharma. Why else would there be such an emphasis on experimentation if they were just island dwellers. I mentioned before that there being only one submarine or no other way off was an idea that mikhail planted in lockes head. If there is no way to get back to where they were holding lockes dad then where are they going. In the preview they show someone putting their hand over Sun's mouth, my only question, is it because she is pregnant or because she killed Colleen. I think Ben might resent the arm of the others that leaves, he didnt trust julliette enough to leave and that could be why he is getting rid of the high ranking others. MY hunch is he is working with whoever controls the smoke, how he dropped Ekos staff with the flames coordinates. I know im alone in thinking this, but I dont think it was mikhail they saw the first time on the pearls moniter. Mikhail didnt seem to know they were coming as locke said, because he shoots at everyone. My hunch is it was bens way of getting rid of mikhail. look at this still from the pearl totally differnt chin and nose than mikhail. Maybe kelvin pretending to be mikhail. The others seem to have the whole island under survailance but they didnt see locke and them infultrating the barracks or paulo going into the pearl. The producers said it wasnt radzinsky they saw and that radzinsky was dead, but they never said that was mikhail they saw. For my theory that bens plan goes all the way before the flight crashed would have to mean that kelvin was working with ben luring desmond from the 108 clock. It has already been established that kelvin didnt start working the clock til after dharma failed, so he might have been an other. Remeber when ethan took claire there were two sets of tracks and the false tracks led locke to the swan(bens plan)...
heres the still shot maybe not kelvin but sure doent look like mikhail
http://humpys.net/view_pic.php?id=261&season=3
http://humpys.net/view_pic.php?id=311&season=3
Even if Ben didn't know about his tumor yet, I still can't believe that he would risk losing their (supposedly) only surgeon. I mean, they do seem to partake in medical activities in Otherton. And even if they didn't, a surgeon is a good handiman to have around in case of emergency! Crazy.
Since screencaps are getting posted (and for the record, 2costa, I still think that's Mikhail)...does anyone have a cap of the two people in the sub when Juliet wakes up? I saw a white man and a black woman (I think). Anyone have anything?
he did know because julliette went over his x-rays with him the same day the flight crashed
like i said thebookpolice i think im alone in thinking its not mikhail, tptb could have cast someone else or changed their minds
TBP: DarkUFO has it here
hey maybe they keep tight grip on x-ray machines so people dont see their micro chips. Seems fishy they didnt have a defibrilater,like ben wanted colleen dead and the subsequently picket
julliette leaving her knife where kate could get it when they were handcuffed is like ben putting his life in jacks hands. Its like they knew they would do the right thing
I'm just saying that even if he didn't have a tumor it was a stupid thing to do. :o)
2costa, the Others certainly have great confidence in their read of our LOSTies like your example with Kate and the knife and also of Jack doing the surgery on Ben no matter what and Locke blowing up the sub and Juliet's play on Sayid and Sawyer in this last episode.
I think Ben has flashes or time loops like Desmond does.
maven - Thanks! Looks like I was wrong about the gender on one of the sub mates. Nice grab by DarkUFO on the t-shirt, though.
I'm watching S2 and was reminded of a line from "One of Us." Ben laments that Mikhail "never has his radio [on]." It just dawned on me now, while watching "The Other 48 Days," that the Tailies found their radio alongside the glass eye in the Arrow.
I think that just about cinches it for me that the stuff in the Arrow was Mikhail's.
Oh, and speaking of Kelvin, I was reminded again that we've seen what appears to be that same rocky outcropping on the coast a couple times now, and no one has said "Hey look, there's a dead body in a DHARMA suit!"
So TBP, do you think that it was Mikhail's Bible with the film in it too? Are Mikhail and Radzinsky one and the same? I still like Dennis' theory that Kelvin was the Long Con on Desmond but that Kelvin went rogue in trying to fix the boat and escape.
memphish - No, I checked Lostpedia on Mikhail and I guess Gregg Nations stated definitively that they are not the same person, and that Radzinsky is very much dead.
I would not be shocked, however, if Radzinsky knew (or knew of) Mikhail. Perhaps Mikhail convinced (or just plain conned) Radzinsky into making the edits. Maybe part of Mikhail's mission was to compromise DHARMA, and making the computers more tempting or removing the prohibition on their use would assist in corrupting DHARMA.
Of course, total speculation here.
not sure if this has been picked up, but the submarine has two dharma symbol line things on the sides . and i caught the t-shirt thing in the last thread - might wanna give me some street creds for that :P
ive been wondering about kelvin too . we've definitely seen those rocks post-crash .
Okay, so just a little side project here...
Back during TLE, besides making Save Joop flyers and banners, I was working on a little sculpey clay project that had symbols of/from LOST. It origonally had a couple of pieces, but soon, it grew a bit larger. Soon after that it had more than 42 pieces. So the next logical step was 108 pieces. Well it is finally done and is actually more than 108 pieces in total, but only because it has certain items which are made up of more than one piece. For example the OTHERS torches (X8) form when the losties got the DON'T CROSS THIS LINE speech, and a new edition of the Pylons from the sonic fence (X3) So have a look and tell me what you think of it.
Also if you would like, you could try and name all 108 pieces, so we have a little more to do until the next episode airs. I will be posting this again along with a master list of all the parts on Teusday or Wednesday.
I greatly appreciate any feed back you would like to offer up.
ThanX,
Ded
Overhead
Low view
PIC 1
PIC 2
PIC 3
PIC 4
OPIC 5
PIC 6
PIC 7
Oh yeah, watch out because the pics are a bit HUGE
Sorry in advance for the big pics, but I wanted the detail to be as good as I could get it.
Those are amazing Ded. What would be the best way for us to identify them? Anyone have a good idea for starting a list that doesn't make for gigantic blog comments?
I think soon we will find out that rosoeeo is one of the left over dharma or an other who may have been banished she is a lliar how could she live on the island for 16 years but any time she sees anything it is the first time she has seen it also wat is up with the black rock does anyone else ever think about that
Ded - those are so cool! Wow! :)
Oh, and I know this is super late, but congrats on the soon-to-be baby boy, Admin!
black_rock, It seems plausible to me. Her 16 years with no interaction with the Others doesn't make much sense. Didn't Mikhail say the Purge was only 11 years ago? Where was Danielle then?
I definitely believe that Rousseau is Dharma. It's the only thing that makes sense. That's how she's survived on the island for so long.
Did she kill her crew soon after they supposedly arrived? Or were they maybe killed because of the purge?
Could the illness be that the Others took them and brainwashed them!?
Rousseau would have killed them because they weren't the people she remembered!!
Ded, those pictures are amazing!
You do nice work. Sculpey clay, eh? How big/small are they?
I think I can identify most of them, but the red circle with the smiley face on it is stumping me.
Hey, Ded! Wow, you've been busy! Great clay sculpture! What an awesome idea. It would be a fun game to try and ID all 108 objects, but I have no idea how that would happen. Maybe you might have to take 108 pics ...one for each object. Set up a blog and a comments for each pic so we call can ID them.
amused2behere
I know what the red circle with the smiley face is. I posted it but then I thought it might spoil it for you or someone else.
Sorry I messed up your name.
amused2bhere
lol Sayid's girl, you were close enuf!
I think I figured out what the smiley face refers to. I wonder how many of us have already compiled lists of what we see in the pile? I have...58 items identified, but if you count each Others' torch separately (and other things like that) then it's more like 71.
this is fun ;)
amused2bhere
You want to know the one that stumped me? The chicken head. Then it finally dawned on me. lol
As I said previously, the torches are part of ONE itam and are not counted individually.
For an example of size... The torches are about three inches in length and the pylons (also previously mentioned) are about as tall as a dime.
Reausues is def Dharma in my opinion, I agree it is the only thing that makes sense, The room 23 thing with her team makes a lil sense as well.
WZ: heishim ...lol Who is him. Is him Jacob or Ben... arrrggghhhh
Hi All,
That's awesome Ded! Thanks for sharing that. Are the objects made out of clay that hardens permanently? I can't wait to show my nephews after shcool.
About Rousseau and the Others...I find Ben's lack of mentioning her when he was in the Swan rather deafening. That is, he didn't say anything like, "Who the heck is that crazy witch that snared and shot me?! Is she one of you?". Makes me very curious. Of course, if he/they took her baby, he would know who she was. But I suspect that there is a lot more to her aquaintance with the Others, as some Lost theorists do.
As for her not knowing the island, and Otherton, etc., after 16 years; I used to think that was really impossible. But really, some people in The World are afraid to set foot out of their house, and don't even know where basic things are in their own town (my mother, for example). So I guess that her ignorance of the island is possible, due to her fear of confrontation, which causes her to disappear into the jungle every time there is a meet-and-greet situation.
Here is my "list" of items so far.
I mapped all the object I could figures out on a Flickr page, I wish Flickr let you add notes to larger images... I'm running out of space!
The new coninuity section on DarkUFO is interesting, and I bet will get even more so as time goes. Especially if they get to do continuity for S1 and 2 as they hope to do.
Capcom,
Yes. Sculpey is an art clat that you bake in yor home oven. 250 for fifteen minutes and it is rock hard.
I would also like to say that I messed up. One of the pices was never set into place. So I have added it. There is a shot of it by itself so you don't go crazy trying to figure out what it was.
Plus, I uploaded earlier shots that were not meant to be there, not much of a problem but things are a little easier to identify with these pics. The have a small amount of hand drawn text and images that might make five to eight pices a bit more known.
Dennis,
I am going to check out your list now.
Dennis, You are on the ball with everything except one. You got the Piece right but not the owner.
I will try to do this without giving it away.
K's HC's should be J's HC's if that makes sense to you... lol
Ded, by the time Lost is over, it should be pretty huge!
Are you going to put Roger Workman's arm on there too? :o)
Thought I'd throw this out there as I've only just seen the episode (the UK don't get it until Sunday night) so apologies if it's already been covered...
In regards to the whole conception/pregnancy thing and how Danielle could've carried Alex full-term: it's important to remember that there's nothing wrong with Clare - her sudden illness was triggered by the remote implant placed inside her during her capture.
This means that there's nothing wrong with carrying a pregnancy to the island, which is why Clare was able to have Aaron and Danielle could have Alex with no issues. It is *conception* on the island that is the issue.
This, therefore, I think could answer the question of who the father of Sun's child is: there really isn't a story if the Others nab a 3-month pregnant Sun to study how her pregnancy is going(and the ensuing shit that will hit the fan when Jin, Sayid et al go gun-crazy to get her back) only to find out that she was knocked up before the crash - awfully long-winded way of TPTB breaking Jin's heart!
Now this could be why there's a lot of child kidnapping going on - studying the children to see how they grow when immersed in whatever-it-is in teh environment that causes life-threatening miscarraiges and infertility.
Truth be told though I'm not 100% that this is about Jules' fertility expetise as there isn't anything other than Sun she can directly work on. Clare was always intended to be the trust-clincher simply because she's the baby of the group and everybody will get super-protective if she's taken ill. The whole "I can fix the wrongs I've committed" routine is just something to strengthen the bond betwen Jules and Jack and for the whole community to come to her side.
As with everything else, we don't fully know what the agenda is, but whatever it is she *must* earn the Losties' trust...
LL, I forgot your other name, sorry.
Good point about Claire not really being sick or her pregnancy harming her in the way we saw last week. Nevertheless they did inject her while pregnant and I still want to know why.
I'm wondering now if at least part and perhaps the largest part of the Juliet/Kate con was to drive Kate back to Sawyer and away from Jack in a further attempt to promote Skate-lets. Then they'd have Sun who maybe or maybe not conceived on the Island, but they'd also have Kate who definitely did. I think Juliet was definitely driving an intentional wedge between Kate and Jack. Was it to further her nefarious research? Sawyer is the one man we know of who has proven his fertility off the Island now that Michael's gone.
lord lepuhuronn (aren't you Shakey?): Like your take on everything regarding the pregnancy issues. Juliet is a "fertility" researcher; in otherwords, someone to understand how someone conceives. She really should be called an "infertility" doctor...trying to figure our why women can't conceive and maintain a pregnancy. (know...I went through 10 years of that!) Maybe Ethan was taking samples of Claire's amniotic fluid to try and figure out why she was still pregnant on the island. I agree the implant was part of a long con and had nothing to do with the pregnant Claire...it was used for Juliet to gain the trust of the Losties and prove she's one of them now.
My thoughts and prayers are with all the victims and their families involved in the Virginia Tech massacre today. It's just mind-boggling that something like this can happen and effect so many. It's so upsetting that all these young people are taken at their college.
Memphish,
My guess is that they had already given Claire an implant, which is why she reacts to the needle as being familiar and the injection that we saw Ethan give her was an implant for Aaron, Maybe not the serum.
Capcom,
I don't know. The next step would be 815 pieces and if they end the show 4 1/2 to 5 seasons there may never be enough items to make... lol
The arm was a possible item for this 108 piece set along with...
Rogers Arm
Pickett's Stunner
Aaron's Crib
The Dug up Hatch
The Others Small Boat
The Others Big Boat
Jack's GUn Case Key
A Roasting Boar
A Fake Beard
The Chess Computer Screen
A DHARMA Operations Man.
The Flame Symbol
The Arrow Symbol Although one of the itams could represent this as well.
A pnumatic Injection Gun
The DHARMA VW MicroBus
The Staff Station Nursery Mobile
(some Inturpritation of) The Mural
A Washer and Dryer Set... lol
A Geronimo Jackson Album
A Record Player
The Swan's Telescope thingy
A Trebuchets
A Piece of Artz (I made this but it was to hard to identify so it was scrapped)
The Failed Timer
An Others House
One of Ben's Masks
A Bear Cage (Sawyers cause it would be interactive... lol)
A Sea Urchin
Kelvin's Yellow Suit
The Caution Plate from the Swan Fail Safe ?Ignition?)
I know there are more, but I forget them at the moment.. lol
Thinking more about the Claire con makes me wonder. If they implanted her with something, they must have been planning for her "escape". Otherwise, she wouldn't have been around to activate the chip for the con to work.
That makes me wonder if Alex is part of the con or if maybe she was conned into helping Claire escape.
Unless maybe the chip was a plan B in case she did escape.
Lostit, I think Alex was part of Ben's con just like her voice being on the intercom when Jack is in the fish tank. I'd guess though that no one but Ben knows it was part of his plan.
Well Ded, you could keep adding bits to your main piece, and also make smaller collages of items from your favorite episodes! And then, when you have amassed all that sculpture, you will need to have a showing of your pieces at a gallery no doubt.
And at the opening, all the LoCos will be there and can have a wine, cheese, and caviar party in your honor! How marrrvelous would that be! I can picture this happening in The Village, in one of those small all-white galleries that have the front doors open on summer evenings. And the background music would of course be the Lost soundtrack. Wow, if I had Ben's Box, I would wish for that to happen, it would be fun. :-)
Slightly off topic: Anyone see "Drive" last night? I thought it was slightly intriguing, but with a lot of loopholes...I know American drivers are considered crazy, but this was ridiculous!
Ded,
Great job.You and Dennis have brightened a sad day.
Thanks.
Yeah Maven I saw it and I am watching the third part right now... lol
Cya's Later
Maven,
Is the Fake Pool (Cop) Pickett...
It looks alot like him.
hahaha thats so awesome ded . i like the fork and knife button that sawyer presses .
i wish they wouldnt make it so obvious that locke's dad is the real sawyer .. i like to be proven wrong and i dont feel like im getting that . not that i know this for sure, but come on . honestly .
Ded: Nathan Fillion (who's playing the kinda lead - Alex Tulley) played Kevin Callis who was the cop married to Kate.
Yeah I know that (GO BROWNCOATS)
On the episode that was on tonight he was taken by a cop, but he was really someone who works for the race, but he looked like pickett and I can't figure out if it was him or not.
On the Sawyer/Locke's Dad connection:
It's a tough balance TPTB have to strike: Make a connection too obvious, and it'll feel like an "obligatory" reveal when it revealed (see: Par Avion). Make the connection too hidden, and it'll seem forced, contrived, or illogical.
Can you (not talking to anyone in particular here) honestly say, though, that you weren't excited the first time you figured out that Locke's dad was the original Sawyer? If it didn't excite you in the least, and would have excited you on the show if it was revealed their without you knowing, then you're not the kind of person who should be theorizing about the show. Some people like spoilers, some don't. If you want to theorize, you should take pride/pleasure out of confirming your theories, not disappointment.
Frankly, though, I don't think the Locke's dad/Sawyer connection has been overly forced. It's definitely there, but if we weren't all obsessive Lost-watchers, would we catch it? How many hints have there been? There was Season 1 Locke's "Why did you pick that name? Sawyer?" And the fact that they're both con men.
But I don't think it's overly forced. It's the same thing that I thought about "Par Avion," well, yes, it was fairly obvious that Claire was Jack's half-sister, but what good would it have done for the issue to NEVER have been addressed? They can't just leave the fact implied.
Sorry, Ded! I didn't see tonite's epi. My DVR screwed up! :(
darkaardvark- I would agree that some of the things that are obvious to us (detail fans)- casual fans, even some devoted fans don't catch these things. Case in point, several friends of mine are LOST "fans"- they watch every episode, they like to discuss it, we have parties at the beginning and end of the seasons, yet it never even dawned on them that Locke's dad might be the original Sawyer until I said something about it. And when I mentioned something about Jacob to them, they all looked puzzled at me and said, "who's Jacob?" They didn't even pick up that there was a significant character that we don't know the identity of. Anyway, I think it may be true that a lot of fans just aren't into the details and it is a fine line for TPTB, because the fans are polarized. They're either detail oriented like us, or they just catch the high notes. FWIW- I'm sooooo glad this community is here to discuss things with. If the only other group I had to discuss LOST with were my local friends, I'd go crazy. And, well, that's how I ended up here anyway.
is alex the biological daughter of ben or adopted this would be intresting if ben and rouseo were once an item?????? also is charlie still gonna die or is that over now seems desmond has been licking on the preminition side of things of late
lacking not lickin
Sorry Guys!!
The podcast will be very late!! I spent most of yesterday pumping gallons and gallons of water out of my Basement!!! The Noreaster was a disaster!
Black_Rock - I don't think that is over. They wouldn't work that angle and then randomly drop it. They do have a tendancy of dropping plot threads for several episodes at a time and then comming back to them however.
Also I've wondered about Alex as well. We only have Rouseo's word about what happened to her lover. But the implication is that if Ben is her genetic father then why did Rouseo pass Ben on to the Losties when she captured him? Surely she'd have wanted to maybe, get revenge or something. Perhaps she couldn't bring herself to do anything and that was why she was all "He IS one of them" hoping they would kill him or perhaps Ben had manipulated her and he was never actually captured at all.
yes, lord_lephuron = Shakey but I can only use my Google account now so the name's stuck...
Not gonna be around posting much for a bit but if I get time I'll squeeze in.
I'll leave this with you though:
On Clare...
Let's break this down. The specific illness we saw was triggered by an implant, which means she doesn't necessarily have anything wrong with her.
However she was kidnapped by Ethan and given injections. But have we ever seen specifically what she was injected with? The only confirmation of what Ethan was doing came from Jules' explanation which simply cannot be believed given that we know she's infiltrating the camp. The injections left could therefore simply be nothing more than a chemical to counteract the implant's effect. As a result, has it *always* been the case Clare's set up to help in an infiltration con?
LL/Shakey - you can change your display name by editing your profile in Blogger. Change the display name. Memphish
See, now I'm Memphish again.
There's a new OLP. I'm listening now. They interview MC Gainey who plays Tom/Zeke/Mr.Friendly.
The OLP answers the question of why the smoke monster doesn't go over the fence.
GOOD OLP I had already considered smokey was in some way connected to/cannot leave the ground, which is why it cannot go over the fence, also taking into consideration the blast door map and the areas marked cv 1 and so on i think i read this stands for cerebus vent, sorry if this has been mentioned , ummmm also can any one tell me a brief description of wat the lost expierience is who produced it and how relevent is it to the show i have seen some videos and they explain alot but are they fakes
Black_Rock, here's the LostPediarundown of TLE.
black rock: Lostpedia has a great article on The Lost Experience. It's what brought The Lost Community together here!
OT
Yessterday Ded asked if it was the same actor playing the cop in Drive that played Pickett. I can't find proof but it sure looks like him to me.
The podcast is here! The podcast is here!
NEW POST!
SG -- someone over on ITE posted that Pickett hit Kate's husband in the face with a billy club on Drive. Didn't see it -- can't vouch for it.
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